Sick and tired of gaming issues on the Mac /cry

[palebluedot]

I am so tired of not having any good games (besides WoW and EVE) on the Mac. I converted to OS X last year yet I am a hardcore gamer. I'm sorry to bug you all so dont read this if you dont want to read a rant, but I had to sign up to vent somewhere.

I'm sick of people saying "use bootcamp" (or referring to boot-camp like its something special, its dual-booting into Windows.. thats it). Dual booting sucks. Gaming should be instant, when i wanna play I dont want to wait 3-4 minutes to boot up and join a game.

What really ticks me off is Aspyr though. I just bought Enemy Territory: Quake Wars for 50 dollars (the PC and linux versions are 30). Not only is it more expensive but it requires you to have the CD in to play (Windows and Mac versions dont). Even worse the game runs like UTTER UTTER CRAP on a new C2D Mac Book pro 2.4 with 2 gigs of ram and a 256mb gfx chip.
Laggy, slow, bad mouse motion, etc.

I have hope that gaming will get better on a Mac but we keep paying companies like Aspyr to spoon feed us buggy piles of crap and PC game companies are fighting to hold market-share against ps3 and xbox. The future of Mac gaming does not look good, and that sucks :(

[Dagless]

It takes you 3-4 minutes? Maybe I'm at an advantage since I work in XP too but I don't find dual booting to play games annoying. It takes me just over a minute (and I've got an older Mac!) to reboot into XP so I can spend an hour or so playing TF2 or GTA. It's no time at all really.

[nagromme]

Rebooting IS a pain--unacceptable to me. Shutting down all my apps and then opening them all up again, to play a 20 minute battle? That hassle would mean I would play games less. No thanks.

The key disc IS ridiculous, since the online accounts would provide the same copy protection as the PC version without that.

And Quake Wars on OS X DOES run well on my iMac which is lower-end than yours :) (NVidia 7600.) Play with your settings and you'll get it smooth I'm sure. (Obviously a bad connection to a specific server will always cause lag--but I've rarely experienced that.)

As for price--that's the market reality. Mac games don't sell as many copies, so they cost more. (Mac porting companies also often get charged insanely high middleware fees.) I can accept that for the convenience of not rebooting, but I understand why some choose Bootcamp.

I'm also pretty pleased with what Aspyr has brought me over the years--including, most recently, Quake Wars, which I've played for 60 hours and am not even close to being bored with. Well worth my $50. Some people don't find much choice in Mac games, but I happen to like sci-fi games, and there are a lot of those to choose from on Mac. (UT3, Gears of War, Starcraft II, Spore and Rage are on the way for instance.)

Troubleshoot your performance problem and you'll find Quake Wars a lot of fun. Try reducing the res and/or lighting quality for starters.

[1ncr3du10u5]

The Mac isn't a hardcore gaming platform, never has been. Why did you get a Mac if gaming is a priority for you? Bootcamp is a great way of playing the games you want though till gaming catches up on the Mac, if it ever does! Is rebooting that much of a pain? Really?

[palebluedot]

Rebooting IS a pain--unacceptable to me. Shutting down all my apps and then opening them all up again, to play a 20 minute battle? That hassle would mean I would play games less. No thanks.

The key disc IS ridiculous, since the online accounts would provide the same copy protection as the PC version without that.

And Quake Wars on OS X DOES run well on my iMac which is lower-end than yours :) (NVidia 7600.) Play with your settings and you'll get it smooth I'm sure. (Obviously a bad connection to a specific server will always cause lag--but I've rarely experienced that.)

As for price--that's the market reality. Mac games don't sell as many copies, so they cost more. (Mac porting companies also often get charged insanely high middleware fees.) I can accept that for the convenience of not rebooting, but I understand why some choose Bootcamp.

I'm also pretty pleased with what Aspyr has brought me over the years--including, most recently, Quake Wars, which I've played for 60 hours and am not even close to being bored with. Well worth my $50. Some people don't find much choice in Mac games, but I happen to like sci-fi games, and there are a lot of those to choose from on Mac. (UT3, Gears of War, Starcraft II, Spore and Rage are on the way for instance.)

Troubleshoot your performance problem and you'll find Quake Wars a lot of fun. Try reducing the res and/or lighting quality for starters.

Thats what makes me sad though. I should be able to run Quake Wars on high with the specs I have, yet even running it on Normal produces lag. :(

You are spot on about dualbooting.

As for everyone else I bought a Mac because they are awesome. I'm just sad that the gaming companies, Apple, everyone all drag their feets on getting gaming to the Mac.

[martychang]

Thats what makes me sad though. I should be able to run Quake Wars on high with the specs I have, yet even running it on Normal produces lag. :(

You are spot on about dualbooting.

As for everyone else I bought a Mac because they are awesome. I'm just sad that the gaming companies, Apple, everyone all drag their feets on getting gaming to the Mac.


The problem here is that you're caught up in what "you deserve." You "deserve" to be able to run it on high with your specs, but can't.

You can play the game, you can play it without rebooting. As long as you don't go below native resolution(I hate LCDs :mad:), I wouldn't complain. Don't need bright shiny lights to shoot people.

Yes they drag their feet, but as long as we keep buying the Mac versions of these games I think it'll get better, Mac is on the uptake. As for lack of good games, TF2 and Portal are the only good games I can think of that are on PC but not Mac. Then again, I'm extremely picky.

[palebluedot]

The problem here is that you're caught up in what "you deserve." You "deserve" to be able to run it on high with your specs, but can't.

You can play the game, you can play it without rebooting. As long as you don't go below native resolution(I hate LCDs :mad:), I wouldn't complain. Don't need bright shiny lights to shoot people.

Yes they drag their feet, but as long as we keep buying the Mac versions of these games I think it'll get better, Mac is on the uptake. As for lack of good games, TF2 and Portal are the only good games I can think of that are on PC but not Mac. Then again, I'm extremely picky.

It's just frustrating because even on "Normal" settings for ET:QW everything feels sluggish and laggy. When I am zoomed in as a sniper it takes about 1.5-2 sec to move the scope properly, that = dead in any game.

I feel like im playing on a p3 633 instead of a 2.4ghz c2d lol

[nagromme]

It's just frustrating because even on "Normal" settings for ET:QW everything feels sluggish and laggy. When I am zoomed in as a sniper it takes about 1.5-2 sec to move the scope properly, that = dead in any game.

I feel like im playing on a p3 633 instead of a 2.4ghz c2d lol

There is a problem with your system. That is NOT normal behavior for Quake Wars on Mac, even with specs WORSE than yours. You won't necessarily be able to play with all settings on High--that's not realistic--but you can find settings that look great and play well, and in mid-battle, believe me you won't notice the difference. But if you lower your settings (and this takes experimenting because some settings look bad without helping speed, and others really help) and still the game is clearly unplayable, then there's some other issue that needs to be investigated.

Sorry you're having an issue--sounds VERY frustrating when you want to be having fun with a new game! But do take the time to troubleshoot it. Fire off a support ticket to Aspyr maybe, try re-installing the game under a new Mac user account, make sure nothing's running in the background and that you haven't hacked your OS in some odd way, check for patches (OS X 10.5.3 and QW 1.5), tweak your mouse speed, try a different mouse (or uninstall any fancy mouse driver you use--though ControllerMate is fine for me), etc.

Now, the sniper rifle in QW is realistic: it bobs around, and when you zoom in that makes things trickier than, say, Unreal Tournament. But I assume you're not just seeing that bobbing, you're having a mouse problem or system slowdown or network problem or some other issue.

Anyway take heart, your Mac CAN play that game very well. Something's wrong (hopefully not a Mac in need of warranty repair) and you just need to discover what. I hope you figure it out soon and get back to fragging!

What's your QW playername online? I play as Nagromme.

As for why you'd choose a Mac if you're into games... well, I'm into games and I chose a Mac. Because.... they're easier to use, and games are about fun, and troubleshooting Windows is NOT fun for me! And of course because I want a machine for games AND for other things--not two machines taking up space.

[Dagless]

It might be okay for me since I don't tend to play in short bursts. After I've done all my work for the day I'll stay in XP and have an hour in TF2 or whatever, and maybe another half an hour at night. Got my games consoles and handhelds for them little breaks.

[nagromme]

Yeah--depends on your habits.

Still, I bet a lot of people who tend to game in big blocks, by rebooting or firing up a console, would play those same games even MORE if they were only a dock-click away.

I certainly wouldn't be playing nearly as much Quake Wars if I couldn't hop in any time without having to close down all my Mac projects.

[l'homme]

4 things:

-Mac's are for work, enjoy multimedia and do general stuff;
-Linux is for servers and MID's;
-Windows is for playing around with cheap machines and enjoying the fight versus evil malware;
-Video game consoles are for play great games, hassleless and almost instantly, at less cost than computers.

[martychang]

4 things:

-Mac's are for work, enjoy multimedia and do general stuff;
-Linux is for servers and MID's;
-Windows is for playing around with cheap machines and enjoying the fight versus evil malware;
-Video game consoles are for play great games, hassleless and almost instantly, at less cost than computers.

What? Consoles have relatively long boot times, and ridiculous loading times compared to computer versions of games, and the endless hassle of controllers. Also, most "great games" after the Super Nintendo era never made it to consoles, or if they did did so in a butchered form far too late(Half-Life for PS2 anyone?).

[nagromme]

Consoles are well suited to SOME types of games. Not others--including most of the games I play (FPS).

[martychang]

Consoles are well suited to SOME types of games. Not others--including most of the games I play (FPS).

They're really poorly suited to FPS and RTS, or games with an RTS-like control scheme: a category which includes many of the greatest RPGs of all time. The Baldur's Gate and Fallout series' in particular, the Icewind Dale series and Planescape: Torment were great too. Not to mention all of the above except Torment have Mac versions, and only Baldur's Gate 1 and the Fallout games are Classic-only, the rest are OS X native.

[BrownPlopz]

... I'm also pretty pleased with what Aspyr has brought me over the years--including, most recently, Quake Wars, which I've played for 60 hours and am not even close to being bored with. Well worth my $50. Some people don't find much choice in Mac games, but I happen to like sci-fi games, and there are a lot of those to choose from on Mac. (UT3, Gears of War, Starcraft II, Spore and Rage are on the way for instance.)...

I'm sorry for the "noob" question, but is Gears of War really out on the Mac? If so, I honestly had no clue! Could someone please tell me where I'd be able to buy it? And if it isn't yet, would you mind telling me when it's coming out? Thanks.

[palebluedot]

Yeah ET:QW is just dang laggy I think. I realized its not really that long of a lag time, but being used to gaming I can see/feel the lag. Its the same kind of lag you would get if you tried to run ET:QW on a Radeon 9600 or something.

My brother has a windows box that is older (spec and age wise) then my new MBP and he can run it BETTER with the same settings.

Is ET:QW a cider port or something? Im guessing its not native :(

It sucks cause it will start out so so but it gets laggier then longer I play. I dont think its a heat issue though. The whole game just isnt that smooth feeling.

[luffytubby]

I agree. Being a recent converter to Mac, I am surprised how poorly the Mac games that I have bought work(Jedi Acdemy and Fable).


Boot Camp... It takes me 3-4 minutes aswell. its not the mac, its just vista that is so damn slow. it really does piss me off more than I thought it would.


I bought WMWare Fusion in hopes of running Windows, with Leopard in the background. But Fusion does not support 64 Bit vista out of a boot camp partition.
But even if I just made a virtual machine, Fusion would still have to boot up Vista * sigh*. I thought it worked like you would just be able to use pc applications natively on the mac, without operating vista from inside OSX.
I hate booting into vista. I really enjoy leopard even though I am only still just getting the hang of things. Itunes and VLC player runs really great, and I love stuff like Expose and the programs Transmission and iSquint!


I have Boot Camp enabled for the really heavy stuff that needs 4 Gigs of Ram and all the power, like Crysis - And thats fair. I dont mind dual booting for doing heavy applications, but when its just some small insignificant game that I just feel like playing for 5-10 minutes, it's just such a hassle.



And its just gonna suck even more with all these new free pc games coming like Battlefield Heroes and Mythos.
We got Diablo 3, Spore, The Sims 3, Rage and perhaps a few other big ones - And this is great. this is big developers starting to realise that DirectX has screwed up!
But its still small fish in a big ocean, and when even the games that where made for Mac run like crap and have poor support its a goddam tragedy.

there is no excuse for that. game or not. if the game was made for OSX, then its just another piece of software that you have paid for and you got the right to expect it to work!

[nagromme]

Yeah ET:QW is just dang laggy I think. I realized its not really that long of a lag time, but being used to gaming I can see/feel the lag. Its the same kind of lag you would get if you tried to run ET:QW on a Radeon 9600 or something.

.... Is ET:QW a cider port or something? Im guessing its not native :(

It sucks cause it will start out so so but it gets laggier then longer I play.

I really, truly, honestly think there IS something ELSE wrong for you. Which sucks! But in any case, QW is not cider, it's native, and Aspyr has ported many games with the same basic id Tech 4 engine: Doom 3, Quake 4, Prey and now Quake Wars. Never have I heard anyone report that these games have a constant lag, and my Quake Wars on OS X surely does not.

The fact that it gets worse with time could suggest a heat issue. Maybe you have a bad GPU, a bad fan, or you need to zap the NVRAM or something. Or maybe it's even a software bug (in the game? the drivers? the OS?) that makes the machine think there's a heat problem when there isn't. Or some other software running in the background could be the culprit.

I do sometimes (not often) get jerkiness that seems to be caused by WiFi interference (good old fashioned net lag). So it could be your Internet or your LAN, too. If you're on WiFi, test with Ethernet. And test with your graphics turned all the way down, too. If it still lags, that might be interesting to know. (And I do see lag for a few seconds--sometimes--when I first step outdoors from an indoor base. That's the megatexture loading I believe. No big deal. Not sure I've seen that happen since the 1.5 patch, actually.)

But whatever the mystery turns out to be, hardware or software, do NOT accept that lag. It's not "just the way it is." You own a game that can run better than you've seen, and I hope you get it working right because it's insane fun :)

I'm sorry for the "noob" question, but is Gears of War really out on the Mac? If so, I honestly had no clue! Could someone please tell me where I'd be able to buy it? And if it isn't yet, would you mind telling me when it's coming out? Thanks.

Gears for Mac is coming--that's official--and it's expected "some time" after UT 3--which is expected very soon. Gears for Mac, like Gears for PC, will have extra chapters and stuff that the console version lacked. But it's not out yet.

[eXan]

Yeah ET:QW is just dang laggy I think. I realized its not really that long of a lag time, but being used to gaming I can see/feel the lag. Its the same kind of lag you would get if you tried to run ET:QW on a Radeon 9600 or something.

My brother has a windows box that is older (spec and age wise) then my new MBP and he can run it BETTER with the same settings.

Is ET:QW a cider port or something? Im guessing its not native :(

It sucks cause it will start out so so but it gets laggier then longer I play. I dont think its a heat issue though. The whole game just isnt that smooth feeling.

What kind of lag are you referring to? Low framerate or connection speed?

[Sijmen]

Sadly I have to agree too. But luckily the games I tend to play right now are all Blizzard and so they have great Mac versions, and UT2004 which I bought for Mac some time ago.

I hope one day, can't be soon enough, the Mac market share goes beyond the magic number where developers/publishers can't afford not supporting them. Now it's too much of a chicken/egg problem. This reminds me of Firefox by the way.

[Veldek]

Well, I also have to agree with some comments about gaming on a Mac. I really wanted to try ET:QW, so I downloaded the Windows demo and could play on high settings without problems on the same laptop you have. I then found the game amazing and bought the Mac version. Now, the Mac version on high details is almost unplayable. I had to go down to normal and for some settings even lower. With these setttings it plays very good, although not visually as attractive of course.

I don't have those other problems you describe though, so these have to be something else IMHO.

And I just moved, so I couldn't play online yet with the full version, but I can't wait! :p

[Volante]

I just don't see why you buy a mbp if you're a hardcore gamer...

[palebluedot]

First off I want to thank all of you so much, the MacRumors community is really cool. I'm glad I finally registered here, its refreshing to not deal with total fanboism or Windows "gamerz" who say "WTF MACS GTFO".

Anyways I got more info that may help to explain the problem a bit. I was just playing WoW (just launched it had been in game for about 10 min) when all the sudden I noticed that my FPS (while flying) were in the low 15s. This was consistent for a few minutes, then sped back up to 50 when I landed.

Keep in mind this has NEVER happened to me before, the Mac has always run PERFECT in WoW for hours no matter what I was doing at a consistent 55-60 fps (i have vsync on with ALL the settings on high). I windowed WoW and checked my iStat pro and it reported my CPU A at 77degrees and my GPU at 79. It said the fans were spining at 3000rpm but I could barely hear them.

Do you think this points in any particular direction? My Mac was fine this week and last week before I formatted and reinstalled OS X (my time capsule hard drive failed so I sent it in and just reformatted for the heck of it). So the problems werent happening on my old OS X install.

Any ideas? Ahhhh I'm so nervous now!

Thanks again for all the help yall! ^^

[nagromme]

Actually, now that you remind me it's a laptop, heat sounds increasinginly likely. Did you change the surface you are working on?

My MacBook Air (which won't be playing QW put plays older 3D games) gets distinctly slower for games--and even fullscreen video streams--after a few minutes, IF I'm playing on a soft surface like my lap or bed. On a hard desk it's fine, or goes for a much longer time before slowing down. (Sometimes I prop up the back edge so the bottom can radiate.) This is definitely a heat issue I'm seeing, since it ties in to fan noise and the feeling of being hot on the bottom.

I'm not sure how to judge the temperature numbers you report, but if you are still gaming on the same old hard surface, don't be alarmed yet--a change in temperature behavior CAN result from a software issue, especially an OS update. (Software and firmware updates can and sometimes do tweak power management--from fan usage to battery life.)

Did this maybe begin when you updated to 10.5.3? Does updating to 10.5.4 help?

There's also a fan control program (Fan Control maybe?) that some people use to customize their heat management on a Mac. You might try using that--or if you already are, try re-installing it or removing it.

By the way, when playing with quality vs. speed settings, if it seems like you have to use low settings, try playing with EACH individual setting instead (tedious though that is). For instance, I thought World of Padman needed low settings to play on my MacBook Air. Then I found I could use all HIGH Settings, as long as ONE magic setting was lowered: 16-bit textures instead of 32. In Quake Wars, on my NVidia iMac, the magic settings that make a big difference seem to be Anti-aliasing (hard to notice in mid-game so I leave it off) and lighting quality (I use the middle setting, which means fewer shadows are rendered). Screen resolution can be a big one too--try one notch down from full native. In mid-game you'll never notice the difference but it may be faster. In any case, play around to find which settings really help speed--and you may find you can leave the others on high.

EDIT: One more thing--try the Hardware Test disc than came with your Mac. It does what it says.

I just don't see why you buy a mbp if you're a hardcore gamer...

Probably because you want to carry ONE laptop, not two :o

[palebluedot]

Actually, now that you remind me it's a laptop, heat sounds increasinginly likely. Did you change the surface you are working on?

My MacBook Air (which won't be playing QW put plays older 3D games) gets distinctly slower for games--and even fullscreen video streams--after a few minutes, IF I'm playing on a soft surface like my lap or bed. On a hard desk it's fine, or goes for a much longer time before slowing down. (Sometimes I prop up the back edge so the bottom can radiate.) This is definitely a heat issue I'm seeing, since it ties in to fan noise and the feeling of being hot on the bottom.

I'm not sure how to judge the temperature numbers you report, but if you are still gaming on the same old hard surface, don't be alarmed yet--a change in temperature behavior CAN result from a software issue, especially an OS update. (Software and firmware updates can and sometimes do tweak power management--from fan usage to battery life.)

Did this maybe begin when you updated to 10.5.3? Does updating to 10.5.4 help?

There's also a fan control program (Fan Control maybe?) that some people use to customize their heat management on a Mac. You might try using that--or if you already are, try re-installing it or removing it.

By the way, when playing with quality vs. speed settings, if it seems like you have to use low settings, try playing with EACH individual setting instead (tedious though that is). For instance, I thought World of Padman needed low settings to play on my MacBook Air. Then I found I could use all HIGH Settings, as long as ONE magic setting was lowered: 16-bit textures instead of 32. In Quake Wars, on my NVidia iMac, the magic settings that make a big difference seem to be Anti-aliasing (hard to notice in mid-game so I leave it off) and lighting quality (I use the middle setting, which means fewer shadows are rendered). Screen resolution can be a big one too--try one notch down from full native. In mid-game you'll never notice the difference but it may be faster. In any case, play around to find which settings really help speed--and you may find you can leave the others on high.

EDIT: One more thing--try the Hardware Test disc than came with your Mac. It does what it says.



Probably because you want to carry ONE laptop, not two :o

Im pretty much using it on the same surface. Whats confusing is I wanna think that its an OS X issue but it just started up. My laptop hasnt moved so i dont think a component could have failed that quickly and even if it was WoW itself I dont know why it would just start. I havent installed 10.5.4 Im going to do that now.

All I know is its hovering primarily aroudn the mid 30s in FPS and it used to stay solid 60 with minimal fan usage... :/ This is one of those crappy problems thats hard to pinpoint but decreases the quality of gaming - ugh!

Thanks again for your sage advice and help =)

Do you think its worth the trouble to reformat/reinstall?

[nagromme]

Thanks again for your sage advice and help =)

Do you think its worth the trouble to reformat/reinstall?

You're welcome. I'm sure it's solvable in the end.

As a last resort, sure! A reinstall COULD possibly help. (It's likely something Apple will want you to try if you're considering taking it in for repair.)

I'd try resetting the PMU (if your machine has that) and NVRAM first though. Check Apple's support site--the procedure varies for different Macs so I forget how to do it. My parents had a firewire port die, and it came back after resetting the NVRAM--but we had to do it the hard way when the regular way didn't help: we unplugged the machine for 24 hours and firewire was back. So it's amazing the weird problems that corrupted NV data can cause.

[eXan]

First off I want to thank all of you so much, the MacRumors community is really cool. I'm glad I finally registered here, its refreshing to not deal with total fanboism or Windows "gamerz" who say "WTF MACS GTFO".

Anyways I got more info that may help to explain the problem a bit. I was just playing WoW (just launched it had been in game for about 10 min) when all the sudden I noticed that my FPS (while flying) were in the low 15s. This was consistent for a few minutes, then sped back up to 50 when I landed.

Keep in mind this has NEVER happened to me before, the Mac has always run PERFECT in WoW for hours no matter what I was doing at a consistent 55-60 fps (i have vsync on with ALL the settings on high). I windowed WoW and checked my iStat pro and it reported my CPU A at 77degrees and my GPU at 79. It said the fans were spining at 3000rpm but I could barely hear them.

Do you think this points in any particular direction? My Mac was fine this week and last week before I formatted and reinstalled OS X (my time capsule hard drive failed so I sent it in and just reformatted for the heck of it). So the problems werent happening on my old OS X install.

Any ideas? Ahhhh I'm so nervous now!

Thanks again for all the help yall! ^^

I doubt its a heat issue - 77C CPU is not high at all. Its probably because the area you were flying in was very graphics-intensive or there's a driver issue, which is not unheard of on GeForce 8600 MBPs.

Get SMC Fan Control and set the fans at maximum and try playing this part again. My bet is that it won't make any difference.

[palebluedot]

I doubt its a heat issue - 77C CPU is not high at all. Its probably because the area you were flying in was very graphics-intensive or there's a driver issue, which is not unheard of on GeForce 8600 MBPs.

Get SMC Fan Control and set the fans at maximum and try playing this part again. My bet is that it won't make any difference.

Yeah Im starting to think its software.

I am getting REALLY crazy FPS jumps. Like from 60 to 55 to 45 to 59 to 60.

Before I would just vary from 59 to 60 occasionally, it was ALWAYS consistent. And occasionally weird things are happening like earlier there was a graphics "stutter" (for lake of a better word) in WoW.

UGH. I guess my only option is to format :(

[WinterMute]

Just a thought, were you running from PSU or battery?

I've noticed video skipping problems associated with low battery charge as the cores are shuffled around on my MBP. Plugging the PSU in solved the issues, this may have something to do with your framerate issue.

I have an original MBP 17" (2.1Ghz, 2 Gb ram) and it gets 30-40 fps out of WoW generally, although it drops in the old hotspots like outside IF bank etc.

Your ping can also effect the gamespeed, but not the FPS clearly.

[eXan]

Yeah Im starting to think its software.

I am getting REALLY crazy FPS jumps. Like from 60 to 55 to 45 to 59 to 60.

Before I would just vary from 59 to 60 occasionally, it was ALWAYS consistent. And occasionally weird things are happening like earlier there was a graphics "stutter" (for lake of a better word) in WoW.

UGH. I guess my only option is to format :(

Thats not "crazy" FPS jumps. Crazy is like from 60 to 10. What you're experiencing is normal variation throughout all game. Different locations are of a different complexity, so FPS variation is normal. I guess your FPS is capped at 60? That explains the consistent "59-60" FPS, because the machine is capable of delivering more 60 FPS, even in more complex areas, so it stays at around 60 most of the time.

Format won't help. It's normal and no need to worry. :)

[Dan.Dare]

Im pretty much using it on the same surface. Whats confusing is I wanna think that its an OS X issue but it just started up. My laptop hasnt moved so i dont think a component could have failed that quickly and even if it was WoW itself I dont know why it would just start. I havent installed 10.5.4 Im going to do that now.

All I know is its hovering primarily aroudn the mid 30s in FPS and it used to stay solid 60 with minimal fan usage... :/ This is one of those crappy problems thats hard to pinpoint but decreases the quality of gaming - ugh!

Thanks again for your sage advice and help =)

Do you think its worth the trouble to reformat/reinstall?

It's a shame you're having trouble on ETQW. Yes, make sure your OS X is up to date and you've installed the 1.50 patch for ETQW. For a while, I tried playing on OS 10.11 and the performance was variable, sometimes becoming unplayable.

I would try tinkering with your graphics settings as well. There is an online series called Tweak Guides which go into much detail about the gfx settings. Well worth your time reading them and seeing if you can improve your performance...before you reinstall.

Personally, I can't fault Aspyr as they are one of a handful of companies who provide us Maccers with decent new games (OK, I'll overlook the much delayed CoD4!). CoD2 was superb and gave me hours of enjoyment.

I can only say that I'll be gaming on my imac until my hardware becomes too archaic to run current games then I'll probably switch over to a console but that is some time away yet.

PS: my ETQW in game name is Dan.Dare.

[palebluedot]

Thats not "crazy" FPS jumps. Crazy is like from 60 to 10. What you're experiencing is normal variation throughout all game. Different locations are of a different complexity, so FPS variation is normal. I guess your FPS is capped at 60? That explains the consistent "59-60" FPS, because the machine is capable of delivering more 60 FPS, even in more complex areas, so it stays at around 60 most of the time.

Format won't help. It's normal and no need to worry. :)

Like I said earlier though sometimes it is dipping down to 10-15.

Also weird stuff sometimes happens like last night it was "stuttering".

[katorga]

Probably because you want to carry ONE laptop, not two

I'm sorry but "hardcore gamer" and mac don't mix, and a hardcore gamer would know that.

I like games and all, but I bought my MBP because it is the best mobile unix option going. The fact that I can boot into windows and do some light gaming is a plus. But hardcore gaming? Even a Mac Pro is not a good gaming rig for the extreme crowd - no SLI. Not to mention the fact that computer games are made for windows...and that is what you want to run if you game.

[nagromme]

I'm sorry but "hardcore gamer" and mac don't mix, and a hardcore gamer would know that.

I like games and all, but I bought my MBP because it is the best mobile unix option going. The fact that I can boot into windows and do some light gaming is a plus. But hardcore gaming? Even a Mac Pro is not a good gaming rig for the extreme crowd - no SLI. Not to mention the fact that computer games are made for windows...and that is what you want to run if you game.

Your needs don't speak for all others, though--not even for all who consider themselves very serious about gaming, like msyelf. You may desire a PC and a Mac both (if you fit your definition of "hardcore") but people with OTHER priorities, who wish to carry a single laptop that does everything they want, are not somehow wrong.

And a MacBook Pro not meeting the needs of the "extreme" SLI card is no reason to choose a Windows laptop over Mac OS X. (Or, if the OP considers themselves "hardcore" and you feel the word has one true definition which you know and they don't, then that's a disagreement about words--but it doesn't change the fact that there are great reasons why some serious gamers choose to game on a Mac--and even in OS X itself.)

[deputylove8]

Haha.Get a 360 or a PS3:eek:

[nagromme]

Don't get me started on mouseless, dumbed-down Quake Wars with auto-aim "training wheels" on PS3 and Xbox :p But to each his own...

[harveypooka]

Boot Camp... It takes me 3-4 minutes aswell. its not the mac, its just vista that is so damn slow. it really does piss me off more than I thought it would.

Vista boots faster than 10.5 on my Mac Pro.

[nagromme]

Vista boots faster than 10.5 on my Mac Pro.

Initial boot is one thing (and I never reboot anyway). But I sure hope the anti-malware stuff that runs AFTER booting is a lot faster for you than it is for me :o

[TSE]

Wow, I love how people expect everything to be instant nowadays.

"WAAAHHHHH I NEED TO WAIT 3 MINUTES TO START A GAME!!! WAAAHHH :("

[Consultant]

I'm sorry but "hardcore gamer" and mac don't mix, and a hardcore gamer would know that.

I like games and all, but I bought my MBP because it is the best mobile unix option going. The fact that I can boot into windows and do some light gaming is a plus. But hardcore gaming? Even a Mac Pro is not a good gaming rig for the extreme crowd - no SLI. Not to mention the fact that computer games are made for windows...and that is what you want to run if you game.

I am not a hardcore gamer, but playing on 17" MacBook Pro, I am almost always in the top 25%, often in top 3, and occasionally the top score (>10%) in Team Fortress 2, even on some clan servers.

[nagromme]

Wow, I love how people expect everything to be instant nowadays.

"WAAAHHHHH I NEED TO WAIT 3 MINUTES TO START A GAME!!! WAAAHHH :("

It's not just 3 minutes, and it's not just TIME. It's time, effort and hassle, and losing access to what you had been doing before the game. And it's not just once, it's every time you game. And that DOES take away both fun and productivity--and can even make you game less often.

You may not be thinking this through completely--rebooting works fine for you and for many others, and I won't deny that--but not everyone has the same needs and habits you do.

I do understand why some people choose to reboot and deal with Windows. But here's why, for me, that is unacceptable:

1. I want to have my same browser, bookmarks, email, chat apps, text editors, and other tools at my fingertips. So when it's time to research a game question, gather other people for a game, download maps/mods/patches, or other activity AROUND gaming, I'm still comfortably at home in OS X.

2. Rebooting means shutting down all the "stuff" I have open on my Mac, and then "getting it all out again" after the game. (Most Mac apps play well with others: you can leave tons of stuff open without a performance problem.) People complain about having to insert a disc to play a game--and rebooting is FAR more hassle than that. I often have documents spread out in different spaces, web pages open, emails open--all kinds of windows that I’m using together for a certain task or project. If I close them all, not only do I have to manually open (and even re-position) them all again after gaming, but I have to REMEMBER all the things I had open in the first place! It’s like having to move all the stuff off of your office desk, but it away in cabinets, and then remember where it all came from to get it back again later. It’s not just a time issue, it’s a productivity issue for me. Some people don’t do a lot of complex multi-app work, but the Mac at excels at that kind of productivity, and I do--all the time. And I like to mix it with gaming.

3. I will game MORE OFTEN if I can quickly and painlessly launch the game, play for a bit, and then get back to other things. Rebooting (twice) means delay and hassle, and I simply won't play as often if I have to face that.

4. Since I use my Mac as a DVR (via EyeTV) to automatically record HD TV shows, rebooting would be a problem: the DVR software wouldn't be running, and if a show came on while I was gaming I would miss the recording. This way I don’t have to check the TV schedule before gaming!

5. The general hassle of dealing with Windows. Gaming should be fun, and battling Windows is not fun for me. OS X is stable, secure, and much easier to troubleshoot if something goes wrong. Games are already the LEAST stable class of commercial apps... the last thing I need is to be fighting Windows as well!

6. Security of the Mac side: unless you stay off the Internet, running Windows can THEORETICALLY open your entire Mac hard disk up to attack. This has never happened to my knowledge, but there are at least two potential risks to even the Mac side:

* Windows can't see the Mac partition, but a virus/worm/other malware can still see the physical drive device--and theoretically could erase the whole drive, Mac and Windows alike.

* Software exists for Windows to let it read/write on Mac partitions. A virus could theoretically include such software, allowing it to mine or attack your Mac partition just the way Windows users have been attacked.

Again, that's theoretical--but still enough to give me pause. I'd rather not have to think about it. So I like VMWare. If you run Parallels or VMWare, games may not run, but at least your Mac stuff is safe!

7. Security of the Windows side. Aside from attacks coming from Windows and reaching the Mac side (highly unlikely) there is the issue of Windows attacks reaching the Windows side! Yes, you can get a virus in Parallels, VMWare OR Boot Camp, if you do something careless. There's nothing to stop that other than what every PC user does (or should do). Which means run a bunch of anti-malware apps that slow your system down and are a major pain each time you start up. And which work great--until they don't. So you have to keep yourself educated--which is additional aggravation. I don’t want to spend time keeping my knowledge and my machine up-to-date on malware defense for Windows. See above under “not fun.” Many Windows users stay secure--but they have invested in learning how, and much as they take it for granted, it IS a chore until you’re used to just accepting it.

8. Disk space. Setting aside a partition for Windows shrinks the storage space I have left for everything else.

It’s a personal call--game on Windows or stay in OS X--and neither choice is wrong.

[Dagless]

I'm sorry but "hardcore gamer" and mac don't mix, and a hardcore gamer would know that.

Sorry, but it seems that your self-defined definition of Hardcore gamer is off.

I'm a hardcore gamer and dev who's still playing games on a 2ghz C2D iMac. What you are indeed referring to is a graphics whore. Which is an entirely different breed of game player.

[martychang]

Sorry, but it seems that your self-defined definition of Hardcore gamer is off.

I'm a hardcore gamer and dev who's still playing games on a 2ghz C2D iMac. What you are indeed referring to is a graphics whore. Which is an entirely different breed of game player.

Quoted for truth, I don't know a single person who actually uses dual graphics cards.

Not to mention that Mac Pros CAN use Crossfire, just not SLI, and only in Windows.

[trip1ex]

Why complain? Build yourself a pcgaming rig. You can do it easily for under $700. I faced the facts. I switched to the mac a few years. I love my Mac. I'll continue to use it for everything else. I'll even play WoW on it still, but I'm not going to shell out an extra $1k just to get an iMac with an 8800gs and still end up with a fairly underpowered gaming machine.

IN the case of gaming, pcs have the better business model. Cheap and easily upgradeable machines and market share. Apple doesn't care about gaming and doesn't put out any machines under $2k with a decent video card.

For $700 I got an ATI 4850, 2 gigs ram, P35 Gigabyte mb, E2160 cpu overclockable to ~3ghz, a 500gb Seagate hard drive, 20x dvd burner and last, but not least (and I splurged a bit here because there are cheaper options) an Antec Nine Hundred Black computer case and PCPower&Cooling Silencer 500W power supply.

Now if only the iMac had a video in then I wouldn't need a second monitor on my desk.

[nagromme]

Why complain? Build yourself a pcgaming rig. You can do it easily for under $700.

That would lack some of the portability of his MacBook Pro :p Plus, his issue isn't caused by choosing a Mac: it's something that started happening when it wasn't happening before.

(I'd personally find building a PC to be fun, and almost did so except I wouldn't have had a use for it. But many would not find that fun OR easy. You can be serious about games without being serious about building PCs.)

I think some people have a knee-jerk reaction against playing games on OS X--something I do daily :D They'll say "you must game in Windows" no matter what.

[luffytubby]

Why complain? Build yourself a pcgaming rig. You can do it easily for under $700. I faced the facts. I switched to the mac a few years. I love my Mac. I'll continue to use it for everything else. I'll even play WoW on it still, but I'm not going to shell out an extra $1k just to get an iMac with an 8800gs and still end up with a fairly underpowered gaming machine.

IN the case of gaming, pcs have the better business model. Cheap and easily upgradeable machines and market share. Apple doesn't care about gaming and doesn't put out any machines under $2k with a decent video card.

For $700 I got an ATI 4850, 2 gigs ram, P35 Gigabyte mb, E2160 cpu overclockable to ~3ghz, a 500gb Seagate hard drive, 20x dvd burner and last, but not least (and I splurged a bit here because there are cheaper options) an Antec Nine Hundred Black computer case and PCPower&Cooling Silencer 500W power supply.

Now if only the iMac had a video in then I wouldn't need a second monitor on my desk.

god...

1)tired of prebuilding machines and all the problems assosiated with it, like having to clean the interior from dust and stuff every third month or some stupid crap like that.

2)the graphics card on the new Imac is great. In boot camp. I get a 3dmark 06 score at almost 13000!!! It plays Crysis at a mix between high and highest settings very smooth at 1200x800, and other games very great in vista.

3)you can always get more for your buck in terms of power if your willing to have ugly cassis, more wires and cables, less great design, less choices in terms of OS... more exterior things like webcam and all that.
If your going to spend alot of money, it better be something your actually like, and not something you think is ugly.
The Imac gives great value for the buck(in my opinion) and I dont see why it would be better to have gotten a gaming rig.

Being a hardcore gamer does not mean that you only care about games. hardcore gamers, are people like everyone else who get into games, but they might also get into other stuff like... media, video editing, text and image editing, great design, simplistic and so on, which are things that I CARE ABOUT! So gaming is one important part of it, but not it all.
You cant have it all, is something we all know, but no one here is complaining about the price or the raw power of the Imac 3 GHz, because its a screamer in an incredible silent and thin form factor, which is unlike anything I have seen on the marked.
This thread is about the software(games) performance in Mac OSX. The delayed patches, the unstable and unoptimized game suppport...
Buying games on a Mac is like buying any other software on the mac. Its software you paid for, and its absolute horse poop, that they are not suppporting their products, to make them run better than they are.
We see great ports across the consoles and handheld platforms more and more.
I feel that they need to do a better job on Mac. What is OSXs markedshare now? 6%? If OSX can climb up to like 10% or even better, then that will mean that every 1 out of 10 computer in the world is a mac, and a potential gamer, and at that point it might be impossible for developers to ignore the growing mac audience.

[trip1ex]

god...

1)tired of prebuilding machines and all the problems assosiated with it, like having to clean the interior from dust and stuff every third month or some stupid crap like that.

2)the graphics card on the new Imac is great. In boot camp. I get a 3dmark 06 score at almost 13000!!! It plays Crysis at a mix between high and highest settings very smooth at 1200x800, and other games very great in vista.

3)you can always get more for your buck in terms of power if your willing to have ugly cassis, more wires and cables, less great design, less choices in terms of OS... more exterior things like webcam and all that.
If your going to spend alot of money, it better be something your actually like, and not something you think is ugly.
The Imac gives great value for the buck(in my opinion) and I dont see why it would be better to have gotten a gaming rig.

Being a hardcore gamer does not mean that you only care about games. hardcore gamers, are people like everyone else who get into games, but they might also get into other stuff like... media, video editing, text and image editing, great design, simplistic and so on, which are things that I CARE ABOUT! So gaming is one important part of it, but not it all.
You cant have it all, is something we all know, but no one here is complaining about the price or the raw power of the Imac 3 GHz, because its a screamer in an incredible silent and thin form factor, which is unlike anything I have seen on the marked.
This thread is about the software(games) performance in Mac OSX. The delayed patches, the unstable and unoptimized game suppport...
Buying games on a Mac is like buying any other software on the mac. Its software you paid for, and its absolute horse poop, that they are not suppporting their products, to make them run better than they are.
We see great ports across the consoles and handheld platforms more and more.
I feel that they need to do a better job on Mac. What is OSXs markedshare now? 6%? If OSX can climb up to like 10% or even better, then that will mean that every 1 out of 10 computer in the world is a mac, and a potential gamer, and at that point it might be impossible for developers to ignore the growing mac audience.

You're mostly preaching to the choir.

LIke I said earlier, Mac gaming sucks so why fight it? Go where the games are. Use your Mac for everything else.

[bandaros]

Mac gaming sucks so why fight it?

QFT

[Jaqen]

I do have a gaming PC, but sometimes I just like sitting on my couch and playing games. That and I don't have a desk yet since I moved so there really is no place for me to play on that unless I want to sit on the floor, and that hurts in every way (wrist, back, etc).

But anyways, I've been playing D2 on my macbook pro and it's ridiculous how hot it gets. D2 isn't that graphic intensive at all, being a 8 year old game! I downloaded a program to change my fan speed and now I have both fans running max at 6000 rpms. It helps a little bit, but I'm worried it'll kill my fan life and they'll die! Should I be concerned?

With news that nvidia has released a lot of cards with heat problems, I wonder if the card I have could be one of them and that's why.

[nagromme]

With news that nvidia has released a lot of cards with heat problems, I wonder if the card I have could be one of them and that's why.

That's a thought, but also, for couch gaming, put the laptop on a hard tray if you don't already. The vents aren't the only cooling: the whole underside should be able to radiate for best cooling. (I even prop the back of mine up.)

[Jaqen]

That's a thought, but also, for couch gaming, put the laptop on a hard tray if you don't already. The vents aren't the only cooling: the whole underside should be able to radiate for best cooling. (I even prop the back of mine up.)

Oh yeah, I do have an iLap. I think I just might want to have kids someday, haha.

[nagromme]

Oh yeah, I do have an iLap. I think I just might want to have kids someday, haha.

Ah--see, I want a barren, sterile existence that ends when I die :)

LIke I said earlier, Mac gaming sucks so why fight it? Go where the games are. Use your Mac for everything else.

1. The games ARE on my Mac. (This depends on your choice of games. I like sci-fi and FPS, and don't have time to finish the ones out now for OS X, before the next wave comes! And game availability for Mac is only increasing, so I doubt I'll ever catch up. Just give me time for UT3, Gears, StarCraft II, Rage, and the final 2 Penumbra games. Once I finish with the games I have--like Quake Wars--which shows no sign of happening.)

2. I want to have one computer, not two--one place for all my bookmarks and emails and IMs, one place for both work and fun, and no extra machine to keep powering up and down. And when it comes to laptops, having one computer instead of two is not just a matter of clutter and desk space, it's a necessity.

3. Booting Windows to game also sucks. (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=5702250&postcount=41)

That's why :)

There IS no perfect game system. Not Mac, not Windows, not a console. Each person has to choose what they're willing to compromise. Some choose Windows. It's the lesser evil and the best choice for some gamers. But not for all gamers. Anyone who feels the need to try to persuade OTHER people to not play games on Mac is seeing things very narrowly. They're seeing their OWN choices as right for everyone.

That's the same mistake as if I were to say nobody should game on Windows. But I wouldn't say that.

[MyDesktopBroke]

How good is the GTS 8800 for gaming? I can only find greatly mixed reports. It's a large possibility that a 3Ghz 8800 iMac will be our family's next comp (we have a 533Mhz G4 with <1 gb o' ram :D ). What's the most taxing game I could play well on it? Do you have an opinion on if it would run, say, Starcraft 2 or Diablo 3?

[nagromme]

Yes and yes--and yes to any game out today, I'd have to guess. Note that the latest games, like UT3 (coming soon to Mac) have some very quality options available--you wouldn't be able to use max settings on all games (few if any PCs can, yet). But with the right settings that should be great for any current game.

More power would be important for things like higher-res external displays, FSAA, and of course FUTURE games that don't yet exist.

But that's the top iMac config, and great for games at the moment. Hard-core spec-braggers would want more power by far. But if you just want to play games, like SC2 and D3, you'll be set.

[SnowLeopard2008]

For gamers, go with the Mac Pro, it costs pretty much the same as the top spec iMac 24". And go with Apple's Cinema Display or go find some cheaper displays. If you're really that sick of mac games, go bootcamp and xp. xp is compatible with most games, except some of the new microsoft ones, AOE, Halo, etc. But that's because they want you to switch to Vista. :D

[nagromme]

That's a thought--and some Dell displays are great buys for a Mac Pro.

[bobber205]

The disc thing is garbage but...

A minute to two to reboot to play a game? QQ more pleaese. ;)
Because that's nothing. Pleeease. That extra minute might prevent "impulse" gaming sessions like my DS frequently causes me to have in the middle of doing something more important (like schoolwork). :D

[nagromme]

The disc thing is garbage but...

A minute to two to reboot to play a game? QQ more pleaese. ;)
Because that's nothing. Pleeease. That extra minute might prevent "impulse" gaming sessions like my DS frequently causes me to have in the middle of doing something more important (like schoolwork). :D

True, sometimes it's a curse how easily I can pop into Quake Wars :D

But the rebooting can be more of a hassle than you may think:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=5702250&postcount=41

[martychang]

The disc thing is garbage but...

A minute to two to reboot to play a game? QQ more pleaese. ;)
Because that's nothing. Pleeease. That extra minute might prevent "impulse" gaming sessions like my DS frequently causes me to have in the middle of doing something more important (like schoolwork). :D

Some people ONLY play games by impulse. Like me. I ran a PC for a while with Linux as my main OS and Windows for games. Result: I never played games. It wasn't until I got a slick Wine setup on my Linux partition that I started playing games again, which was around the time I wiped out Windows and converted the partition to more Linux storage.

[palebluedot]

True, sometimes it's a curse how easily I can pop into Quake Wars :D

But the rebooting can be more of a hassle than you may think:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=5702250&postcount=41

Wish I could say the same :(

I'm still getting really bad lag at weird times. Like I had just been playing, it seemed so so/fine for 20 mint hen after 20 min on this one map the lag was so bad it would take 3 sec to turn around when I moved my mouse.

I know this isnt the problem but I was wondering if my Mouse could be adding more crap ontop of an already craptastic pile. Im using the top o' the line gaming mouse (the Logitech G9) which is not Mac compatible per se. It stores all your settings on the mouse's RAM though, and Im using Steermouse (3rd party) to get button functionality. I wonder if this is adding to the lag? I know its not causing it cause the lag is visibly screen lag.

[nagromme]

Did it stay lagged, or just lag for a few seconds? I do get it occasionally like that--and I think it's when megatextures load. Seems like it usually happens when I step outdoors--although plenty of times I step outdoors with no lag, so maybe that means sometimes the needed megatextures have already loaded. Just a theory. A network issue is another theory--do you have any way to game for a while at a different location/network and see if anything is different?

Re the G9 mouse: I doubt that's hurting anything--I've read a few comments from other people using it on Mac--but I suppose anything's possible, especially with some third-party driver. I'd be interested to hear how you like it: that's the very mouse I want to get; only I'd use ControllerMate (which I already own and like) instead of SteerMouse.

FWIW here are my Logitech G9 questions:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=501417

[trip1ex]

Ah--see, I want a barren, sterile existence that ends when I die :)



1. The games ARE on my Mac. (This depends on your choice of games. I like sci-fi and FPS, and don't have time to finish the ones out now for OS X, before the next wave comes! And game availability for Mac is only increasing, so I doubt I'll ever catch up. Just give me time for UT3, Gears, StarCraft II, Rage, and the final 2 Penumbra games. Once I finish with the games I have--like Quake Wars--which shows no sign of happening.)

2. I want to have one computer, not two--one place for all my bookmarks and emails and IMs, one place for both work and fun, and no extra machine to keep powering up and down. And when it comes to laptops, having one computer instead of two is not just a matter of clutter and desk space, it's a necessity.

3. Booting Windows to game also sucks. (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=5702250&postcount=41)

That's why :)

There IS no perfect game system. Not Mac, not Windows, not a console. Each person has to choose what they're willing to compromise. Some choose Windows. It's the lesser evil and the best choice for some gamers. But not for all gamers. Anyone who feels the need to try to persuade OTHER people to not play games on Mac is seeing things very narrowly. They're seeing their OWN choices as right for everyone.

That's the same mistake as if I were to say nobody should game on Windows. But I wouldn't say that.

Did you say anything there? It didn't sound like it. No one said anybody's choice is right for everybody except you. :)

It's a free world. Just because I recommend gaming on a pc instead of a Mac, because we all know Mac gaming sucks, doesn't mean you have to.

[nagromme]

Did you say anything there? It didn't sound like it.

Yes I did. You asked a question--why fight to game in OS X--and I answered it :)

I think we're on the same page though, that there are good reasons for either choice.

No one said anybody's choice is right for everybody except you. :)

No--you missed a lot of what I said, if you think I said that. I'm responding to people who fail to say "for me" or "I" or "for some" and make blanket statements like "Go where the games are. Use your Mac for everything else"--and then don't understand why someone would choose differently. So I explained why.

[trip1ex]

Yes I did. You asked a question--why fight to game in OS X--and I answered it :)

I think we're on the same page though, that there are good reasons for either choice.


Yeah we're on the same page as far as Mac gaming sucks, and we both like OS/X. However, in general, I wouldn't recommend a Mac to a gamer unless they like getting games a year later at full price with less support and less online players and paying much more for much less gaming performance.


No--you missed a lot of what I said, if you think I said that. I'm responding to people who fail to say "for me" or "I" or "for some" and make blanket statements like "Go where the games are. Use your Mac for everything else"--and then don't understand why someone would choose differently. So I explained why.

Well if you're responding to other people then you shouldn't quote my post. :)

[nagromme]

I was responding to you :) (But also to others.)

I recommend Mac and Windows BOTH as gaming options, and I tell people the problems/benefits of each. You could say either platform "sucks" for games (and I've explained why Boot Camp does) or you could look only at the benefits and say either one is great--but either way, nobody should be recommending one without acknowledging the other.

Windows gamers need not be bothered by my posts in support of OS X gaming. Both options will coexist just fine. But I'll continue to point out the often-overlooked benefits of gaming in OS X. (And I'll continue to post about why NOT to game in OS X too--as I've done many times. But that side of the question gets discussed plenty already.)

[Xavier]

The only problems I have encounterd with gaming on my Mac has been Universal Binaries. Most of my games ran fine on my G4, and then I upgraded to a MBP. They stopped working until they all got UB updates. Now everything is just fine. (I am not that picky when it comes to graphics and shinny stuff).

I play Doom 3, Jedi Academy, Halo, Warcraft 3, Freespace 2, Knights of the old Republic, and Fable.

[togermano]

I bought rollercoaster tycoon 3 for mac and simcity 4 deluxe thinking it would be great for my new imac but it ran like slow dog ****.... Aspyr really sucks at porting games there age of empires 2 i bought was a joke too. So far the best performance game for my imac is command and conquer 3 using the cider port... runs perfectly!

[trip1ex]

I recommend Mac and Windows BOTH as gaming options, and I tell people the problems/benefits of each. You could say either platform "sucks" for games (and I've explained why Boot Camp does) or you could look only at the benefits and say either one is great--but either way, nobody should be recommending one without acknowledging the other.

Yeah the problem with that is you would need a good dose of kool-aid to believe it. In no way is Mac gaming on the same foothold as pcgaming. Mac gaming means making many compromises while Windows gaming means making almost none.


Windows gamers need not be bothered by my posts in support of OS X gaming. Both options will coexist just fine. But I'll continue to point out the often-overlooked benefits of gaming in OS X. (And I'll continue to post about why NOT to game in OS X too--as I've done many times. But that side of the question gets discussed plenty already.)

I don't think the benefits to mac gaming are overlooked at all. There really aren't any besides the fact you get to stay in Os/X and use just your Mac.

[SnowLeopard2008]

One Mac computer that will never lag or has crappy graphics is the Mac Pro, if you really want a thriller gaming experience, try spending 27K on a fully loaded Mac Pro, then come complaining to me about sucky graphics or such. Heck, my macbook can run all the games ppl here have mentioned no problem. The fan does kick in but other than that, its perfectly fine. The iMac is capable of running even Crysis, albiet its the higher end model, the 3.06 ghz or the one lower than that. Lag is not due to the computer, but the network. Anyway, bootcamp isnt that slow. Just be patient :)

[Mindflux]

I am so tired of not having any good games (besides WoW and EVE) on the Mac. I converted to OS X last year yet I am a hardcore gamer.

This, IMHO should have been your first clue NOT to get a Mac. Can they game? Yes! As easily as a Windows machine? Not currently.

[kahine]

This, IMHO should have been your first clue NOT to get a Mac. Can they game? Yes! As easily as a Windows machine? Not currently.

Other than the time it takes to reboot into Vista64 Enterprise that I run currently there's nothing my Mac Pro with two 3870's and 3.2 Xeons cannot run on the Windows side and run well at 1920x1200

Nothing more difficult about it other than just installing Vista which I would have to do on a gaming rig as I used to anyway

[Sijmen]

One Mac computer that will never lag or has crappy graphics is the Mac Pro, if you really want a thriller gaming experience, try spending 27K on a fully loaded Mac Pro, [...]

$ 27,000 to play games? What, are you nuts? The Mac Pro is great but there's a lot of stuff that driver the price up but is not needed for gaming. This is a really bad excuse.