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MacRumors
Dec 11, 2003, 01:07 PM
Infoworld reports (http://weblog.infoworld.com/techwatch/archives/000130.html) that Apple is "hiring away Oracle sales people to help them target enterprise accounts".

Apple has recently been trying to step up their Enterprise sales with the formation of an Enterprise sales group (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/08/20030826115310.shtml) and enterprise purchasing programs (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/11/20031105200103.shtml).

sethypoo
Dec 11, 2003, 01:12 PM
Would this mean that Apple is trying to move into the small business market like IBM and Microsoft? And the large business market?

I just read a really interesting article in the Money section of USA Today (today's paper, 12-11-03) which went over how Microsoft and IBM are trying to move into "niche" markets, ie small businesses.

Hmmmmm.....hope it works out.
:)

jbrown
Dec 11, 2003, 01:20 PM
is this good?

macMaestro
Dec 11, 2003, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by sethypoo
Would this mean that Apple is trying to move into the small business market like IBM and Microsoft? And the large business market?

I just read a really interesting article in the Money section of USA Today (today's paper, 12-11-03) which went over how Microsoft and IBM are trying to move into "niche" markets, ie small businesses.

Hmmmmm.....hope it works out.
:)

Apple already has a large share of small buisnesses and small non-profits. With the enterprise sales division, apple's trying to target large corporations, i.e. fortune 500 companies.

(edit: I didn't mean LARGE large, but a higher presence than say it's total market share.)

gwuMACaddict
Dec 11, 2003, 01:52 PM
how can it NOT be good?! seems to me like the more computers apple sells the better. and to be hiring during this time with the news wants everyone to believe that the market is in a shambles must mean that apple is doing something right if they WANT new hires. i like it. :D :D

~Shard~
Dec 11, 2003, 02:12 PM
I'm sure this is a good thing, but honestly, why? I'd be curious to hear other people's impressions and what exactly this means....

legion
Dec 11, 2003, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by gwuMACaddict
how can it NOT be good?! seems to me like the more computers apple sells the better. and to be hiring during this time with the news wants everyone to believe that the market is in a shambles must mean that apple is doing something right if they WANT new hires. i like it. :D :D

Plenty of companies hire while doing layoffs/downsizing. Hiring during a market downswing means nothing. (Almost all of these companies claim "corporate restructuring" when asked about their business practices...)

My question is "why Oracle (other than proximity)?" Oracle is coming to a grinding halt with far less respect by the business community. The sales force from Oracle could be possibly cheap to buy, but anyone who's ever dealt with an Oracle rep would know that their "skills" are based on their company's pre-exisiting brand name in the industry; they are not blazing any new paths in the business sector (which is the kind of sales force Apple will need to crack into the Fortune 500.)

Kid Red
Dec 11, 2003, 02:20 PM
I assume it's a good thing because it will help Apple sell more Xserves which means greater market, greater profit and greater acceptance as OS X as a realistic alternative to M$ :confused:

x86isslow
Dec 11, 2003, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by legion
Plenty of companies hire while doing layoffs/downsizing. Hiring during a market downswing means nothing. (Almost all of these companies claim "corporate restructuring" when asked about their business practices...)


cept the market downswing= layoffs in CA, and hiring in Bangalore and Hyderabad.

Doctor Q
Dec 11, 2003, 02:31 PM
Is this specifically for server system sales, or will they be targeting business customers' desktops? I can't tell from the news so far.

MoparShaha
Dec 11, 2003, 03:13 PM
This is a good thing, but Apple needs to get the G5 Xserve out for it to mean anything.

k2k koos
Dec 11, 2003, 03:59 PM
Could be very promising, if backed up by the much needed new x serves etc (g5?)

now we need some more pull apps for themac, creative apps plenty, we need more spreadsheets, databases, etc etc etc, before joe public is convinced that " YES you can ALSO do your financial admin on a Mac, not just design work" Which is a common misconception by the way, oh and Apple.. please do something about that market share her ein europe, I really strugel here to findMac magazines, and shops hat sell Mac hardware, yes tehey ae arround, but there are PC's on every street corner, no Macs , HELP!!! I wanne see and feel before I buy pls!!!! (not to mention show others there is a whole different world out there if they look past their windows....)

;) ;)

cubist
Dec 11, 2003, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by legion
... My question is "why Oracle (other than proximity)?" Oracle is coming to a grinding halt with far less respect by the business community. ...

If a salesman calls to me and says he used to sell Oracle, I'm going to hang up on him immediately. They have a horrible reputation. Hiring ex-Oracle salespeople to sell Apple computers is like hiring ex-Gulag guards as ballet dancers.

legion
Dec 11, 2003, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by cubist
If a salesman calls to me and says he used to sell Oracle, I'm going to hang up on him immediately. They have a horrible reputation. Hiring ex-Oracle salespeople to sell Apple computers is like hiring ex-Gulag guards as ballet dancers.

Ahh... so you've spoken to the Oracle sales force...:D

(I'd do the same!)

legion
Dec 11, 2003, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by x86isslow
cept the market downswing= layoffs in CA, and hiring in Bangalore and Hyderabad.

That's the image everyone is going with now, but I remember back in college, Applied Materials, Inktomi, Oracle, Raytheon, Hughes (parent of Raytheon), and other SF Bay companies were hiring hundreds (quietly) while publicly they were firing thousands. Stocks were declining and credit ratings were poor for the Tech sector and these companies were using that as an excuse for the firings/layoffs/force retirements. I asked an interviewer once what that meant about job security in their company and they had no reponse.

bertagert
Dec 11, 2003, 04:35 PM
Apple is hiring the Oracles because they already have the inside connections to large corperate businesses. Nothing more, nothing less.

Gabriel
Dec 11, 2003, 04:54 PM
Its good that Apple is beefing up its enterprise sales force, but I hope that they don't do it at the cost of their education sales force. I was talking to a private school IT guy awhile ago (from a long-time Mac school) and he said that the only reason they stayed with Apple was that their rep was really good. He was extremely frustrated with iBook problems (apparently a whole lab had power problems, Apple said to buy new adapters but it didn't work), OS X Server problems, AirPort problems, etc. Maybe he was just one lone grumbler, but if he isn't it could be very problematic.

hayesk
Dec 11, 2003, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by x86isslow
cept the market downswing= layoffs in CA, and hiring in Bangalore and Hyderabad.

So what? Don't people in Bangalore and Hyderabad deserve to have jobs too?

Besides, I don't think that is relevant here. You generally don't hire sales people from far away places. Tech workers, yes, but not people on the front lines.

Les Kern
Dec 11, 2003, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by hayesk
So what? Don't people in Bangalore and Hyderabad deserve to have jobs too?

Not mine, but that's a whole nuther thing.
My experience with oracle sales has been fantastic. Professional, courteous, and knowledgeable. Perhaps the reader got a lemon? Besides, any oracle volk hired at Apple will follow the Apple mantra. And I would suggest that Apple is developing a server to workstation solution for enterprise, using some new "stuff" coming up soon.

tsunake
Dec 11, 2003, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by bertagert
Apple is hiring the Oracles because they already have the inside connections to large corperate businesses. Nothing more, nothing less.

Exactly. There aren't too many companies with enterprise saturation rivaling Oracle's.

AidenShaw
Dec 11, 2003, 05:25 PM
Interesting history....


http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1106-900786.html

"Oracle has long been known for its aggressive competitive stance, even in the high-stakes, high-pressure world of corporate software sales, which includes such industry giants IBM, SAP and Siebel Systems.

The state's negotiators were no match for the professionals at Oracle, according to a state auditor's report, which highlighted several aspects of the contract that it found objectionable. For example, the report noted that the six-year term was unusually long in an industry with rapidly changing technology, that the state wasn't protected in the event Oracle lowered its prices and that the purchase price didn't include software upgrades."

ITR 81
Dec 11, 2003, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by bertagert
Apple is hiring the Oracles because they already have the inside connections to large corperate businesses. Nothing more, nothing less.

Correct.

Most folks around here love Oracle which is why Oracle designed special database software just for hospitals in this area.
Not including DB software for PDA's so the doctors can pull up all of a patients info via wifi connections throughout the hospitals. All the beds have LCD touchscreens with DB running it as well for the nurses.

Gyroscope
Dec 11, 2003, 05:47 PM
Could it have something to do with Apple XGrid <-> Oracle10 Grid?

question fear
Dec 11, 2003, 06:12 PM
a beautiful fantasy....going to work one morning and discovering all our computers replaced with macs...hell, i'd settle for emacs.

if only....

everytihng would run! no win98 lock-ups, no programs that lie about real-time inventory....

Apple will save us all.

or i will wake up.

but hey, borders is fortune 500, and we're the pseudo underdog against B&N...c'mon apple, just a few computers...

rdowns
Dec 11, 2003, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by legion
Plenty of companies hire while doing layoffs/downsizing. Hiring during a market downswing means nothing. (Almost all of these companies claim "corporate restructuring" when asked about their business practices...)

My question is "why Oracle (other than proximity)?" Oracle is coming to a grinding halt with far less respect by the business community. The sales force from Oracle could be possibly cheap to buy, but anyone who's ever dealt with an Oracle rep would know that their "skills" are based on their company's pre-exisiting brand name in the industry; they are not blazing any new paths in the business sector (which is the kind of sales force Apple will need to crack into the Fortune 500.)

You buy other companies reps for their Rolodexes and contacts and less for their sales skills.

sethypoo
Dec 11, 2003, 08:17 PM
Originally posted by macMaestro
Apple already has a large share of small buisnesses and small non-profits. With the enterprise sales division, apple's trying to target large corporations, i.e. fortune 500 companies.

(edit: I didn't mean LARGE large, but a higher presence than say it's total market share.)

I kinda meant like moving further into that market.

legion
Dec 11, 2003, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by rdowns
You buy other companies reps for their Rolodexes and contacts and less for their sales skills.

However, you can't take it with you... Oracle knows how to write their hiring contracts; they're not newbies to the business world. You don't give your sales force keys to the kingdom without protecting yourself.

AidenShaw
Dec 11, 2003, 10:25 PM
Originally posted by legion
Oracle knows how to write their hiring contracts...


Do you work in Kahlifoania?

The "right to work" laws here make many of the common contractual issues about competing with your previous employer null and void...

rainman::|:|
Dec 12, 2003, 12:30 AM
hmm... i work in corporate communications and marketing... maybe i should send off a resume :)

ah if only. this is a great thing tho, something apple has really been lacking for a long time-- if they can get some big name accounts, it'll grab some headlines, and introducing Macs into more mainstream workplaces will definitely add credibility to the abilities of the mac platform. good move, apple.

paul

legion
Dec 12, 2003, 01:34 AM
Originally posted by AidenShaw
Do you work in Kahlifoania?

The "right to work" laws here make many of the common contractual issues about competing with your previous employer null and void...

Yes, I do.

The "right to work" laws didn't nullify all of a company's rights. There are protections for the original company's client lists from being stolen by leaving employees. The "right to work" laws just narrowed the focus of what a "competing company" can be defined as and the duration of the clause. It recognized that employees in one tech firm would be screwed if they couldn't work at another tech firm because of a non-compete clause, since that's where their skills are.

jade
Dec 12, 2003, 01:51 AM
Oracle and Apple do not sell the same type of products. These Oracle sales reps know people who can get meetings...there wouldn't be competion in the client lists. And sales isn't like advertising and PR whre it is a lot clearer about which client belongs to who.

More Apples in business will mean more apple's at home. Many people buy PCs because they use PCs at work...even if a competing apple solutuon would be better suited to their needs.

Hopefully we see some big customer wins by the end of the year.

winmacguy
Dec 12, 2003, 02:15 AM
Originally posted by jade
Oracle and Apple do not sell the same type of products. These Oracle sales reps know people who can get meetings...there wouldn't be competion in the client lists. And sales isn't like advertising and PR whre it is a lot clearer about which client belongs to who.

More Apples in business will mean more apple's at home. Many people buy PCs because they use PCs at work...even if a competing apple solutuon would be better suited to their needs.

Hopefully we see some big customer wins by the end of the year.

This can only mean progress for Apple :)

JLL
Dec 12, 2003, 04:27 AM
Originally posted by jade
Oracle and Apple do not sell the same type of products.

Hmm... Oracle sell databases - Apple sell servers - 10g will be released for Mac OS X.

Seems very related to mee, and if Apple is about to sell G5 Xserves with Oracle 10g pre installed (which is very likely), Oracle sales people probably aren't the worst kind of people to sell that product ;)

rdowns
Dec 12, 2003, 05:29 AM
Originally posted by legion
However, you can't take it with you... Oracle knows how to write their hiring contracts; they're not newbies to the business world. You don't give your sales force keys to the kingdom without protecting yourself.

Apple and Oracle don't compete, Oracle sells software and services, Apple sells hardware. Hiring rep who can get you in the door of large companies is smart. It's not like Apple will have them trying to replace Oracle with, what, Appleworks?

scat999999
Dec 12, 2003, 11:19 AM
They bring existing relationships to the table. Getting in to see the decision makers is 90% of sales.


Originally posted by legion
but anyone who's ever dealt with an Oracle rep would know that their "skills" are based on their company's pre-exisiting brand name in the industry; they are not blazing any new paths in the business sector (which is the kind of sales force Apple will need to crack into the Fortune 500.)

k2k koos
Dec 13, 2003, 04:53 PM
I too agree, getting mac's into business places means more macs at home, as is now the case with PeeCee's .... At work PC, so i 'll take one at home too, good point there!

:)