powerbook 15 uneven screen backlighting

[Paolo30]

My al 15's screen is noticably darker (about 3 notches darker) on the right hand side when the brightness is turned down. It evens out when I turn up the brightness, but this chews the battery...
I use the machine primarily for graphics work so I'm kind of particular about the screen. Am I just being overly pedantic?

This is my second pb... the first was DOA'd because of the screen and took 3 weeks to be replaced, and I'm not about to go through that again.

Anyone else having this problem?

[ProFox]

Yes, mine just did that. No matter the brightness settings, the lower right-hand side of the display is a few shades darker than the rest of the display. I am going to wait for the backlight to come back, as I've had a Dell Inspiron with a similar problem which resolved itself after a few hours. In the meantime, I'd like to know what your solution to this problem was.

Cheers,
The Fox

[ProFox]

Me again. Thought it may interest you, and anybody else for that matter, that it seems that the automatic brightness control sometimes "forgets" to crank up the brightness (voltage?) on one of the backlight fluorescent tubes.

All I had to do to get the full brightness back was to expose my PowerBook to a bright light source - in my case a cheap halogen desk lamp. After that, automatic brightness control was again able to keep up with the ambient light conditions and I have an evenly-lit display again.

Cheers,
The Fox

[Oid]

Over the last few days my 15" Al PB has started to suffer from the same problem, with the lower right side of the screen ever so slightly darker than the rest.

However I don't have the 'automatic brightness control' turned on, so its not that. Plus my darkness spot is there whether the screen brightness is dark or max, so it looks a little better with the brightness set to max.

Will have to call apple I suppose, not looking forward to losing the machine for weeks...

[dvguy]

I've had the same problem with mine. If I have the machine set at full brightness, the dark region seems to fade over time.

After a few phone calls, Apple has agreed to replace the screen. But that means I'm going to have to be without the machine for a while...

[Paolo30]

Well, over the last few days the problem has gotten a lot worse - it's now quite hard to look at the screen without getting a headache. I rang apple who told me to ring my reseller who told me to ring apple. High comedy, I know.

Fox, I'm not sure I understand. My screen has little dark pinches at the bottom corners - it really doesn't look like mis-firing tubes - It's more like uneven pressure causing the backlight to fail. You can apparently reset the PMU in order to even out the screen, but that lasts an hour at best. Is yours still holding up?

There's some (!) threads at apple support about the screen issues with the 15" albook, and one of them mentions that the spec requires a certain amount of pressure to be sustained by the back of the screen, and apple has been using screens that aren't up to the pressure. Some of the fixes for white spot have involved a foam spacer installed at the time of repair - so it does appear to be a mechanical issue.

Anyhoo, long story short - screen to be replaced. And if you're wondering, this is definitely NOT within spec.- if your backlighting isn't even you need to get the screen replaced.

Apple know about this problem but you'll get varying amounts of information/silence depending on who you talk to. I was getting very frustrated by the lack of any appreciation of my situation when I was talking to customer care (an oxymoron, I know) this morning, and so I asked how many of these screen issues they were coming up against - the reply? SILENCE. I then asked whether they had been told not to say anything about the screens on new 15" powerbooks - the reply? SILENCE.

So far I'm not very impressed with apple, but ask me again three weeks after I've had this screen replaced.
:rolleyes:

[blue&whiteman]

you guys should not have to tolerate this kind of faulty equipment when you have paid good money for it. make a stand! don't let them take their sweet time to fix it! insist on a replacement machine! do not let them make you wait!

sorry if I sound extreme but this is not fair to you guys at all! I hate to see people pulled through the grinder just to have something that should have worked perfect from the start!

[Paolo30]

Fox, the fix worked - sort of - but it's a hell of a lot better than it was, thanks. I'm damned if I'm going to be shining a bright light at my machine every 10 minutes, though. I didn't pay $4500AU for those shinannigens.

Blue&whiteman, I wholeheartedly agree we should not have to be putting up with this BS. I did demand a replacement machine this morning, but was told that there would be a wait "of many weeks" for the 15"....I wonder why.... but that apple would be more than happy to replace the screen. Gee. So generous. I get to wait an unknown period of time for a fix that no-one is willing to guarantee in any way. I got kind of pissed and asked to be upgraded to a 17", and was told in no uncertain terms that "that would not occur." The Apple people I've talked to seem to have the attitude that it's MY fault the screen is....well...less than perfect. You know, the customer care person I spoke with today told me that "nothing in life comes with a guarantee"

I kid you not.

Don't even get me started on the reseller....they asked me what environment I had been using the machine in...as though it's my fault! these clowns KNOW what is happening with the 15", and they have the hide to turn it back on the poor schmucks who bought the thing.

It's all looking to me to be a bit of a joke. I'm a graphics professional and a businessman, and if I treated my customers like apple (and the reseller) has been treating me I would be living out of a shopping cart.

In short, Apple, you suck.

(if saying that gets me banned, so be it. I've had enough.)

[blue&whiteman]

it simply baffles my mind that they would treat you that way. its like they actually expect you to accept your powerbooks faults are your faults.

i'm sure all the apple reps are not like that though. I would ask to speak with their superior and report their unfair treatment. plus the superior has more authority when it comes to making a decision on what they can do for you.

try that and if your attempt fails I would go to the media about your horror story.

the moderators here may not like what I just said but this guy has every right to have a fully functional powerbook and should not suffer in any way to get that. its almost like his human rights are being violated.

[kangaroo]

Originally posted by Paolo30
Fox, the fix worked - sort of - but it's a hell of a lot better than it was, thanks. I'm damned if I'm going to be shining a bright light at my machine every 10 minutes, though. I didn't pay $4500AU for those shinannigens.

Blue&whiteman, I wholeheartedly agree we should not have to be putting up with this BS. I did demand a replacement machine this morning, but was told that there would be a wait "of many weeks" for the 15"....I wonder why.... but that apple would be more than happy to replace the screen. Gee. So generous. I get to wait an unknown period of time for a fix that no-one is willing to guarantee in any way. I got kind of pissed and asked to be upgraded to a 17", and was told in no uncertain terms that "that would not occur." The Apple people I've talked to seem to have the attitude that it's MY fault the screen is....well...less than perfect. You know, the customer care person I spoke with today told me that "nothing in life comes with a guarantee"

I kid you not.

Don't even get me started on the reseller....they asked me what environment I had been using the machine in...as though it's my fault! these clowns KNOW what is happening with the 15", and they have the hide to turn it back on the poor schmucks who bought the thing.

It's all looking to me to be a bit of a joke. I'm a graphics professional and a businessman, and if I treated my customers like apple (and the reseller) has been treating me I would be living out of a shopping cart.

In short, Apple, you suck.

(if saying that gets me banned, so be it. I've had enough.)

Paolo30,

IMO, you overreached asking for a PB17 replacement. If they said the issue was ‘within spec’ then you’d really have a problem but since they’ve agreed to replace the screen, get on their schedule and move on.

[Paolo30]

Kangaroo, of course I overreached, and I was never under any illusion that they would actually upgrade me. I was extremely pissed at the way I was being shuffled about and treated with what I believe verged on contempt.

I'm just annoyed at the arrogance shown by the people I've spoken to in Apple Care - I honestly believe that myself and all the others who have bought PB15s and had them fail have been treated with disregard.

[ProFox]

Me.

The backlight just did the same thing again - right side dimmed, left side bright as ever. This happened now because I've put the PB to sleep. Of course, forcing full brightness for a few minutes causes the backlight to "wake up" again. Since I am able to reproduce this reliably, I am in doubt of the "pressure" theory. You see, the backlight tubes are EL tubes, meaning the higher the voltage, the brighter the light will be (something along those lines).

Alas, the PB is a leasing machine with extended AppleCare to boot, so I'll bide my time - what would xmas be without this sweet machine? :-)

Cheers,
The Fox

[Paolo30]

Hey Fox,
interesting results - and I wish mine did too... it lasted about five minutes before returning to the original state. So I ended up taking it back into my reseller to be repaired - a friend of mine is a tech who knows another tech, and the techs talked tech and there was some suspicion that the logic board was the problem - which would support your theory. Also something in that about the PMU reset trick. This would also mean that Apple are replacing screens that aren't necessarily faulty... gad. I'm sure they'll get it right eventually.

Good luck with it - and if you're getting a good result with the light reset it is a good idea to hold off on repair. More quality time spent together during the holidays.:D

[MacBandit]

Just to push some buttons but our screen is nice and even clear across on our Al15" that we've had for about a month. Well not exactly a month. We didn't have it for a week because the power button failed to work so we had to send it in and they replaced the logic board. The screen and the rest of the machine is great though.

[mj_1903]

There are some threads on Apple's forums about this (was hunting through it all last night as my PowerBook is going in to get spots fixed and I was wondering if my battery was below par, and it turns out it is).

The backlight issue with one side darker than the other is published in the forums, but it looks like it is an extremely rare occurence, in that the spots are much more common. If its really distracting, take it to an Apple store and get them to verify it for you and get it fixed (its due to the backlights actually being completely separate on both sides, so if one is of a different build quality, it shines differently). Otherwise, I doubt there is much you can do about it.

Mat

[e-coli]

Wow. These 15" PowerBooks sound like they're absolutely HORRIBLE. Does anyone have one that doesn't have some flavour of screen defect?

[dvguy]

I actually ordered two powerbooks for the company -- the screen on the second one is fine. But, that unit also shipped with a broken SuperDrive. All in all, I'm seriously considering getting the extended AppleCare on these things. I shouldn't have to -- but with such a bad track record on these models, I'm sure something else will go wrong within three years. However, that being said, I still love the machines!

Personally, I'm finding these dark screen defects are becoming more common everyday. When I was on the phone with Apple, they seemed more concerned to find out if the machine shipped this way, or whether the problem developed over time. Hopefully this doesn't become as widespread as the "white spots" problem.

[blue&whiteman]

bottome line is why doesn't apple buy from a better more reliable lcd maker? are they just trying to save a few bucks and in turn using not so good ones?

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by e-coli
Wow. These 15" PowerBooks sound like they're absolutely HORRIBLE. Does anyone have one that doesn't have some flavour of screen defect?

My wife's 15" doesn't have any screen problems. Though the power button failed after 2 weeks requiring a mother board swap which took a week. I would agree all in all Apple has really screwed the pooch on this one.


Applecare or a 3rd party protective plan is a must for all Apple laptops and has always been so, not just because of the new 15" models.

I would recommend a 3rd party plan though as many of them also cover accidental damage which is not covered with AppleCare.

[Paolo30]

New model - more bugs to iron out in factory retooling. It seems they just get it right and it's time for a new model.
An apple tech friend of mine who bought a 12" went through 3 before they got it right.
I've heard that Apple bought into LG and Samsung in order to maintain a level of control over the lcd supply, so it is hard to imagine why so many (#?) are failing.

[MacBandit]

Well as for other LCD problems I used a dead pixel finder program tonight and thoroughly scoured my screen for dead or stuck pixels. Guess what not a one. I have extremely good eyesight and am very picky (comes from be a BMW tech for years). I'm probably as amazed as many of you are.

[Paolo30]

ya, fido has gotten it in za hooee.

let's do some math - around november 160,000 units sold. 25% screen failure rate (that's white spot, not dim screen, too) - 40,000 units repaired/replaced. That'$ gotta hurt...

Problem is, if this is recurring and the 15 is truly an aluminum lemon, what does one get instead? I really don't like any of the pcs that I've looked at - they all run Windoze.:o

12 is too small. 17 is too big. What could be just right?

Oh and current theory on darkening screen is bung inverter board. Or something.

http://www.macfixit.com/staticpages/index.php?page=20031124074921199

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by Paolo30
ya, fido has gotten it in za hooee.

let's do some math - around november 160,000 units sold. 25% screen failure rate (that's white spot, not dim screen, too) - 40,000 units repaired/replaced. That'$ gotta hurt...

Problem is, if this is recurring and the 15 is truly an aluminum lemon, what does one get instead? I really don't like any of the pcs that I've looked at - they all run Windoze.:o

12 is too small. 17 is too big. What could be just right?

Oh and current theory on darkening screen is bung inverter board. Or something.

http://www.macfixit.com/staticpages/index.php?page=20031124074921199

I have had none of the screen problems with my wife's Al15". I am pretty sure it is from the new batch that started about a month ago though.

[Paolo30]

yeah, I reckon the bugs will be short-lived - but it seems a pretty expensive lesson not to rush to market... no matter *how* much everybody wants one.

Those numbers were quoted in a couple of developer (?) sites I was trawling for info on this. Raised my eyebrows, too. A tech buddy told me that it costs a reseller $2500 AU to replace the screen on a 15"pb. Again with the eyebrows.

pobody's nerfect. even in apple...
:rolleyes:

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by Paolo30
yeah, I reckon the bugs will be short-lived - but it seems a pretty expensive lesson not to rush to market... no matter *how* much everybody wants one.

Those numbers were quoted in a couple of developer (?) sites I was trawling for info on this. Raised my eyebrows, too. A tech buddy told me that it costs a reseller $2500 AU to replace the screen on a 15"pb. Again with the eyebrows.

pobody's nerfect. even in apple...
:rolleyes:

Well I would suspect any numbers that you see ever (unless released officially by Apple) are purely speculation. Rumors about upcoming releases are hard enough to tack down do you think they could tack down warranty numbers something even more secretive.

In any case I would suspect that the current dispute between Apple and the manufacturer is over warranty and returned Powerbooks. Typically when a company makes a deal with a manufacturer part of the deal is the dollar amount that the manufacturer will cover if there is a problem. I suspect that the returned Powerbooks has far exceeded those numbers and Apple is pursuing potential legal action against the manufacturer and probably seeking another source for the assembly.

[Paolo30]

Interesting.
Keep us posted on how your wife's screen goes. I'm seeing more posts on apple's discussion boards about this now.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by Paolo30
Interesting.
Keep us posted on how your wife's screen goes. I'm seeing more posts on apple's discussion boards about this now.

I'll definitely keep you up to date but I don't foresee any problems. It's been getting a lot of use the last couple weeks and I've kept it going pretty solid for the last few days and the screen seems just fine. The only issues I see with the screen is the bottom corners are slightly dimmer. When I say the bottom corners I mean the bottom 1/8 square of each bottom corner. This doesn't seem to be any different then nearly any other lcd I have ever seen though. Still no stuck or dead pixels or screen backlighting or white spot problems though.

[Paolo30]

weeeeeeeeell, new screen installed, and no dead pixels :D but I'll be darned if the backlighting just hasn't unevened itself again....

So I have this theory (which may or may not be shot down in flames) that this is an issue with the ALS, and not the screen per se. In any case There is No Way on God's Green Earth that I am getting my poor little machine taken apart again - it's far too brutal:

http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/systems/PB_G4_15_AL_takeapart/AL_PB_G4_take-apart.html

and a screen with no dead pixels is nothing to sneeze at.

So I really hope this is a firmware issue and it can be resolved by an update.

Which brings me to my next question...

[Rezet]

Originally posted by MacBandit
I'll definitely keep you up to date but I don't foresee any problems. It's been getting a lot of use the last couple weeks and I've kept it going pretty solid for the last few days and the screen seems just fine. The only issues I see with the screen is the bottom corners are slightly dimmer. When I say the bottom corners I mean the bottom 1/8 square of each bottom corner. This doesn't seem to be any different then nearly any other lcd I have ever seen though. Still no stuck or dead pixels or screen backlighting or white spot problems though.

Hey bandit! you're back!? Let me know when u get a chance to get on unreal :)

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by Paolo30
weeeeeeeeell, new screen installed, and no dead pixels :D but I'll be darned if the backlighting just hasn't unevened itself again....

So I have this theory (which may or may not be shot down in flames) that this is an issue with the ALS, and not the screen per se. In any case There is No Way on God's Green Earth that I am getting my poor little machine taken apart again - it's far too brutal:

http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/systems/PB_G4_15_AL_takeapart/AL_PB_G4_take-apart.html

and a screen with no dead pixels is nothing to sneeze at.

So I really hope this is a firmware issue and it can be resolved by an update.

Which brings me to my next question...

There is no way that the backlight issue is a software problem I just don't see it being possible. There is a good chance though that it's a cable or a connector on the motherboard though which I'm sure they haven't been replacing.

[Paolo30]

What about a mechanical issue with the hinge - and by that I mean the hinge being too tight, and the screen being opened and closed causes the backlight thing.
My "perfect" screen is starting to look a lot like the last one - big dark area at the bottom right. Not to mention the left hand side of the screen....
Ridiculous? You be the judge...

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by Paolo30
What about a mechanical issue with the hinge - and by that I mean the hinge being too tight, and the screen being opened and closed causes the backlight thing.
My "perfect" screen is starting to look a lot like the last one - big dark area at the bottom right. Not to mention the left hand side of the screen....
Ridiculous? You be the judge...

From what I have see if you are thinking twisting and bending of the screen the LCD is much more vulnerable then the backlight. I'm thinking since it's a repeating thing that it's most likely the cable routing, the connection on the motherboard, or a controller chip on the motherboard.

Our screen has loosened up a lot in the few weeks we have had it. In fact if you bounce it very lightly on your lap the screen will fall backwards as it bounces.

[Paolo30]

Do you think that if it is a cable/inverter board situation that it would be rectified by fixing just that and not replacing the screen, or would the damage have already been done to the backlight tubes?
I don't want to play dead pixel lottery again, is all.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by Paolo30
Do you think that if it is a cable/inverter board situation that it would be rectified by fixing just that and not replacing the screen, or would the damage have already been done to the backlight tubes?
I don't want to play dead pixel lottery again, is all.

The backlight shouldn't be affected at all. I think it's just not receiving the correct signals or power.

[johnnowak]

Just got my new 15" Al book, after a lengthy delay due to LCD issues....

Perfect screen, no dead pixels, even backlighting.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by johnnowak
Just got my new 15" Al book, after a lengthy delay due to LCD issues....

Perfect screen, no dead pixels, even backlighting.

Good good. Hows the keyboard nice and even no lumps? Also what about the lid are the two corners even when closed?

[Paolo30]

johnno, did they replace just the screen or was the logic board or anything else involved?

[illumin8]

Originally posted by Paolo30
ya, fido has gotten it in za hooee.

let's do some math - around november 160,000 units sold. 25% screen failure rate (that's white spot, not dim screen, too) - 40,000 units repaired/replaced. That'$ gotta hurt...

Problem is, if this is recurring and the 15 is truly an aluminum lemon, what does one get instead? I really don't like any of the pcs that I've looked at - they all run Windoze.:o

12 is too small. 17 is too big. What could be just right?

Oh and current theory on darkening screen is bung inverter board. Or something.

http://www.macfixit.com/staticpages/index.php?page=20031124074921199
Dude, I think your math is way off. There are nowhere near 25% of PowerBook 15" experiencing the screen problems.

I have had mine for about two months now and no problems whatsoever (knock on wood).

[johnnowak]

Originally posted by MacBandit
Good good. Hows the keyboard nice and even no lumps? Also what about the lid are the two corners even when closed?

Yep, perfect! Very well built.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by johnnowak
Yep, perfect! Very well built.

Great good to hear so was ours. Though ours had a power button failure after a week. They replaced the motherboard and all is well. We've had it for about a month now and it's just working great.

[Paolo30]

"Dude, I think your math is way off. There are nowhere near 25% of PowerBook 15" experiencing the screen problems.

I have had mine for about two months now and no problems whatsoever (knock on wood)."



Good for you. But it wasn't my math, it was the math on the developer site I was trawling for info on this. Could you please tell me exactly how many machines are failing?

another thing, I just posted to a thread on Apple Discussions about my lackluster experience with Apple "Care" - no flaming, no swearing, just disappointed - and it was DELETED.

Whatever you do, don't disagree.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by Paolo30
Good for you. But it wasn't my math, it was the math on the developer site I was trawling for info on this. Could you please tell me exactly how many machines are failing?

another thing, I just posted to a thread on Apple Discussions about my lackluster experience with Apple "Care" - no flaming, no swearing, just disappointed - and it was DELETED.

Whatever you do, don't disagree.

They have been deleting messages related to this and it's well known. The reason in my opinion is that there is no reason to post to there boards complaining because AppleCare is dealing with the issue. It's really too bad they haven't replaced the actual part that has failed in your machine.

As I stated before I think 25% is way too high.

[illumin8]

Originally posted by Paolo30
Good for you. But it wasn't my math, it was the math on the developer site I was trawling for info on this. Could you please tell me exactly how many machines are failing?
No, I can't tell you how many machines are failing. Only Apple has that kind of information and they're not going to release it to the public. I just know from anecdotal evidence that it has to be much less than 25%. Can you imagine how much this message board would be flooded with complaints if anywhere near 25% of people had these problems?

The problem is, as has been said before, the few that do have issues (I'm pretty sure it's less than 10%) are very vocal about them. I can't say that I blame you for complaining. I would be angry if mine had problems too, but fortunately I always make large purchases like this on a credit card so that I have the extra "leverage" that a charge-back gives me.

If I get any crap from a reseller, I simply demand a refund and threaten a charge-back if they don't give it to me. Works every time. Your credit card company or bank will definitely go to bat for you if you got a defective product and the burden of proof is on the reseller to prove that the product wasn't defective.

[Paolo30]

Well, this vocal complainant is forced to recant.
I recant.
I cannot find the site that quoted that figure, but I was reasonably sure that I hadn't pulled it out of thin air - not so sure now. In any case, it was pure speculation. My humble apologies. The cost quoted for replacing screens is reliable, however.

Apple prevails. Rev B will be a thing to be reckoned with.

BTW I spoke with an truly excellent tech at AppleCare Australia today. Thank you Anthony. I look forward to finding out what the problem really is, as some others out there do.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by Paolo30
Well, this vocal complainant is forced to recant.
I recant.
I cannot find the site that quoted that figure, but I was reasonably sure that I hadn't pulled it out of thin air - not so sure now. In any case, it was pure speculation. My humble apologies. The cost quoted for replacing screens is reliable, however.

Apple prevails. Rev B will be a thing to be reckoned with.

BTW I spoke with an truly excellent tech at AppleCare Australia today. Thank you Anthony. I look forward to finding out what the problem really is, as some others out there do.

Just remember that 80% of all percentages are made up on the spot.


Including this one.:rolleyes: ;)

I hope you get your problems fixed. It could be worse you could have a no name 3rd party PC and the company could be telling you that it's working within spec.

[professorp]

Hello all - my first post to MacRumors, though I'm a long-time lurker.

This LCD issue has got me a little worried, as I'm about ready to go out and buy the new 15" AlBook.

I've had my current TiBook 400 for nearly 3 years, and it's been 100% reliable in every way. When I did my homework before buying this one, there were a few gripes on the Apple boards and MacRumors, mostly with regard to the DVD and the fan. I took a chance, and have never looked back.

Now that it's time to upgrade, I'm seeing the same gripes about the optical drive and fan, and that's fine, but this display issue looks like it could be a much more serious problem (not to mention reports of battery life at the 2 hour range). So my question for your collective expertise is:

Buy now? Or wait six months and hope for improvements?

[illumin8]

Originally posted by professorp
Buy now? Or wait six months and hope for improvements?

Buy now. Most of the PowerBooks are perfectly fine. You always take a small risk when you buy any product, but if there are problems, Apple will fix it. I think if you were to actually count the number of good units vs. the number of "problem" units, the statistics would be very good. The problem is, when someone gets a computer that works fine, you never hear from them on these forums. The people you do hear from are the ones with issues. So if you make your purchasing decisions based on reading these message boards, you might not ever buy any Apple computer just because someone has had issues with every single computer out there.

If those people having problems are only 1% of the total number being sold, the chances are pretty good that you'll get a great computer.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by professorp
Buy now? Or wait six months and hope for improvements?


I think the problems were pretty prevalent a month or two ago but have all butt been worked out.

I haven't had the fan or DVD issue that you mention. The fan only comes on when you are doing intense cpu tasks and it's not very loud. Also if you are doing tasks that require the fan to come on you're only going to get an hour to an hour and a half of battery life anyways. Normal usage for text, email, browsing and the such I've gotten over 3 hours in real time not just by the battery meter.

I at least wait until after tomorrow thought to make a purchase.

[Darkside]

Originally posted by MacBandit
I think the problems were pretty prevalent a month or two ago but have all butt been worked out.The important word in that sentence is "but". Meaning the problem of Uneven Illumination has not been worked out.

My experience:
-2003/12/04: I orderd my 15" PowerBook.
-2003/12/27: It developed Uneven Illumination in the space of a few minutes after I set it down on a table (like I'd done a few dozen times before).
-2003/12/30: Shipped into Apple for repair, after a tech at a local Authorized Service Center looked at it for 2 seconds and said, "Oh! Yeah, that's wrong."
-2004/01/05: Recieved PB back from Apple. Replaced the screen (Part Number 646-0205, Samsung WS), and apparently did an Archive and Install of Panther (10.3)

As illumin8 mentioned, most of the PB's are probably fine. Some of them that are "fine" are actually broken, I'm sure, but their novice owners don't realize that the Uneven Illumination isn't normal for an LCD... or they just wait, thinking it'll get better. News flash, it won't. :mad:

Another misconception people have is that "if there are problems, Apple will fix it". Also wrong. This is an exercise in semantics, but it's important:

Apple will replace the parts that are obviously broken; typically the LCD. This is not necessarily what caused the problem in the first place. It's the distinction between treating the symptoms or the disease: you can take decongestants and cough suppressants when you have a cold, but these aren't gonig to kill the virus that's causing you to feel sick.

Apple can continue to replace LCDs, but when owners have a recurrence of this problem, it's obvious the LCDs are failing because of another, unaddressed problem. I can't believe that many LCDs are defective; something else is causing it.

So Apple will attempt to fix your problems. As many owners that have had a recurrence of Uneven Illumination will tell you (and it's most of the people that have it develop in the first place), they don't always succeed in "fixing" it.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by Darkside
The important word in that sentence is "but". Meaning the problem of Uneven Illumination has not been worked out.

My experience:
-2003/12/04: I orderd my 15" PowerBook.
-2003/12/27: It developed Uneven Illumination in the space of a few minutes after I set it down on a table (like I'd done a few dozen times before).
-2003/12/30: Shipped into Apple for repair, after a tech at a local Authorized Service Center looked at it for 2 seconds and said, "Oh! Yeah, that's wrong."
-2004/01/05: Recieved PB back from Apple. Replaced the screen (Part Number 646-0205, Samsung WS), and apparently did an Archive and Install of Panther (10.3)

As illumin8 mentioned, most of the PB's are probably fine. Some of them that are "fine" are actually broken, I'm sure, but their novice owners don't realize that the Uneven Illumination isn't normal for an LCD... or they just wait, thinking it'll get better. News flash, it won't. :mad:

Another misconception people have is that "if there are problems, Apple will fix it". Also wrong. This is an exercise in semantics, but it's important:

Apple will replace the parts that are obviously broken; typically the LCD. This is not necessarily what caused the problem in the first place. It's the distinction between treating the symptoms or the disease: you can take decongestants and cough suppressants when you have a cold, but these aren't gonig to kill the virus that's causing you to feel sick.

Apple can continue to replace LCDs, but when owners have a recurrence of this problem, it's obvious the LCDs are failing because of another, unaddressed problem. I can't believe that many LCDs are defective; something else is causing it.

So Apple will attempt to fix your problems. As many owners that have had a recurrence of Uneven Illumination will tell you (and it's most of the people that have it develop in the first place), they don't always succeed in "fixing" it.

I don't think there are new 15" Powerbooks still coming with this problem there may but they are probably old stock. That's why I said a month or two ago of which your machine one of.

It's truly unfortunate that they have not fixed it yet though it is not that they are refusing to and haven't tried. You got to hand it to them they are trying which is a lot better then some companies out there. At this point I think you just need to talk to them on the phone about this and explain that they haven't fixed it in so so many tries and that there is obviously something they are missing. Be very courteous about this as being nasty will get you no where. If they can't do anything more then they have previously then ask for a supervisor and work your way up the ladder being very courteous the whole way. Once you reach someone that can actually pull strings see what they will do for you if they are not willing to do anymore then replace your screen again then just sort of ask about lemon laws don't threaten them yet. Typically that's all you need and you will probably get a new machine out of it if they don't see another way to fix it. Make it clear once action has been taken that you hope this is the last time and if it isn't you may have to pursue legal action but be sure to do this without being aggressive or mean.

[Paolo30]

Me again,
I hate to chime in on this again but I think we need to re-evaluate how many people are actually having the uneven illumination issue. Sure any percentages are purely hypothetical, but this goes BOTH ways - all those saying that only 1% of machines have problems or it's a vocal minority - How do you know? Where do you get these figures?

Let's all have a look at this...
http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=194664

This, I know is no real indication of numbers, but all of us are in the dark as far as this is concerned.

Also, why is it considered such a crime to complain about the lousy service that some people have received from Apple? Are they beyond criticism? There seems to be a "grin and bear it" mentality endemic to this community. Anyone complaining is seen as rocking the boat. Maybe the boat needs to be rocked.

Now could everyone please change their desktop to all white and tell me what they see?

[Darkside]

Originally posted by Paolo30
Let's all have a look at this...
http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=194664

This, I know is no real indication of numbers, but all of us are in the dark as far as this is concerned.Agreed. Throw the forum from Apple Discussions ("Uneven illumination" (http://discussions.info.apple.com/WebX?128@215.x5ZQaCHGqqC.103128@.599c3e3f)) into the mix; over 80 posts there. I know, that doesn't mean 80 people have the problem, but those that do have the problem are understandably troubled and vocal.

I agree with Paolo30; "grin and bear it" is no way to deal with a serious, recurring flaw in a $2,000 to $3,000 machine, especially when many of the customers are graphics or web professionals that can't compromise on quality. For many of us, that's why we bought or switched to Macs.

I don't really care if the new systems being manufactured don't have this problem (and there's been no proof that this is true). Fact: people that order today will still probably be shipped a system that's a month or two old. Resellers and Apple itself will ship from the oldest items in inventory first.

Even when everyone who orders gets a new, hypothetically error-free system, there are still the existing customers like us that have old, broken ones. Since Apple keeps replacing screens and they keep failing, they're definatley not trying hard enough.

I'm always cordial to Techs when I speak with them on the phone. They usually only have slightly more info than I do, and sometimes they probably can't even tell customers all they know. They don't have authorization to approve a refund or a replacement, so obviously I escalate into Customer Service if that's required.

A note for you, MacBandit: telling them you want a refund/replacement and "just sort of asking about lemon laws" won't get you one unless you fight for it. Outside of the 10 day after-purchase window, it takes something serious and obvious for Apple to "graciously" provide a replacement. It costs them too much, so they make it hard. I can attest to that.

Besides, just mentioning lemon laws amounts to a threat; why would you mention it if you aren't going to persue it when you don't get what you want?! :rolleyes:

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by Darkside
A note for you, MacBandit: telling them you want a refund/replacement and "just sort of asking about lemon laws" won't get you one unless you fight for it. Outside of the 10 day after-purchase window, it takes something serious and obvious for Apple to "graciously" provide a replacement. It costs them too much, so they make it hard. I can attest to that.

Besides, just mentioning lemon laws amounts to a threat; why would you mention it if you aren't going to persue it when you don't get what you want?! :rolleyes:

No I realize that about lemon laws but you can yell at them that you are going to sue them and take them to court because the product is a ****ty lemon or you can be nice and ask them if they think it's a lemon. That at least gets them to realize you may be serious. Also if the thing needs 3 or replacement screens it would have been cheaper to replace the whole thing in the first place.

I know about how to approach these people because I was a BMW motorcycle Service Manager for 5 years and I know what got me working for the customer and and I know what just pissed off BMW and made them fight back. If you have a good relationship with your BMW dealership you can get the world moved if you an angry asshole of a customer you may end in court and being told to lick BMWs feet your not owed anything. It's all about having a little tact and realizing the people you are talking to are just doing a job like anyone else. If the person you are talking to can't help you try to get someone who can.

[Paolo30]

Well, the apple care people told me that there were no such people when I asked to speak to a supervisor. I am a very polite person when dealing over the phone, but after talking to apple care for ten minutes steam was shooting out of my ears and I was straight onto the forums kicking and screaming. Why? Because customer care did not do what it is there for.

I know every large corporation has bad apples (pardon the pun), but to be treated as an irritation when I was onto my third screen on a machine I paid so much money for was nothing short of outrageous.

I'm getting off topic, I know. Apologies. Deep breaths. Calm blue ocean. Calm blue ocean.

I'm taking screen three back this week. Will let you know what screen four is like.:rolleyes:

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by Paolo30
Well, the apple care people told me that there were no such people when I asked to speak to a supervisor. I am a very polite person when dealing over the phone, but after talking to apple care for ten minutes steam was shooting out of my ears and I was straight onto the forums kicking and screaming. Why? Because customer care did not do what it is there for.

I know every large corporation has bad apples (pardon the pun), but to be treated as an irritation when I was onto my third screen on a machine I paid so much money for was nothing short of outrageous.

I'm getting off topic, I know. Apologies. Deep breaths. Calm blue ocean. Calm blue ocean.

I'm taking screen three back this week. Will let you know what screen four is like.:rolleyes:

I feel for you. I wish I new someone you could call or write to at Apple.

[Darkside]

Originally posted by MacBandit
I know about how to approach these people because I was a BMW motorcycle Service Manager for 5 years and I know what got me working for the customer and and I know what just pissed off BMW and made them fight back.Point taken; your experience is appreciated. :)

Sorry if I came off sounding condecending or argumentative; as Paolo30 just said, "Deep breaths. Calm blue ocean." This whole situation makes everyone angry (especially Paolo30; I feel your pain). It's very frustrating when you're civil, but as soon as they look at your case file, you feel their mood shift to a shade of surly.

Thanks for your suggestions, MacBandit; subtlety is definately the way to go.

[Darkside]

Originally posted by Paolo30 Well, the apple care people told me that there were no such people when I asked to speak to a supervisor.My experience from my TiBook debacle: After the standard phone Tech Support people are the Engineers; they have Engineers for specific product lines. After that, I was told there was no other person to escalate it to within Tech Support.

The next step, I was told, was Customer Service. Not sure how many levels you can escalate there.

Paolo30, it really seems to be Customer Service time for you; there's little the Techs can do to help, since they've already "fixed" it three times and it keeps breaking.

Good luck... try mentioning lemon laws like MacBandit suggested, see what they say. ;)

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by Darkside
Point taken; your experience is appreciated. :)

Sorry if I came of sounding condecending or argumentative; as Paolo30 just said, "Deep breaths. Calm blue ocean." This whole situation makes everyone angry (especially Paolo30; I feel your pain). It's very frustrating when you're civil, but as soon as they look at your case file, you feel their mood shift to a shade of surly.

Thanks for your suggestions, MacBandit; subtlety is definately the way to go.

Hey no problem I understand about the frustration. Things happen though and you have to remember one thing. Apple as with BMW may be good machines but they are still made by man not god so they do have problems.

There has to be a way of manipulating the system to working for you. It may be necessary to get on good accord with your local Apple reseller or Apple Store.

I know that when my wifes Al15"'s Power button failed it worked out really well to go down and talk to the service man at our local Apple reseller face to face.

He had a real problem customer right in front of me that was a lawyer and threatening all sorts of law suit stuff because his screen was cracked and the couldn't do anything about it under warranty.

I explained to him my experience with BMW and we laughed about the customer a bit and then we got to talking about our problem with our laptop and I was able to talk to him on his level technically. Because of our experiences and him knowing where I was coming from and I knowing where he was coming from we were able to get things worked out very well.

[Paolo30]

uh, I was talking to customer service. The tech I'd been talking to had pretty quickly gotten to the "I don't know" stage so I asked to speak to CS (mainly because I was losing money on jobs I couldn't process while the machine was being repaired and wanted some assurance of when I would receive a replacement/repair)
That's when things went downhill. I believe I did end up using the word "lemon" a couple of times, but the response was a brick wall. I did stop short of threatening litigation, however, but the 'vibe' was pretty unsympathetic coming from the lady I was speaking with.
I think maybe the fact that management told the underlings not to say anything about the al pb faults had something to do with her stonewalling. One of the earlier CS people I talked to actually blurted out that she was "really really sorry" that this had been happening with the al and "nothing like this has happened at Apple before." Nothing like what, I wonder?

and back to theories... somebody on the mmacnn forums had the idea that the problem was due to the backlight tube being improperly adhered to the diffuser .... think about it - if this is the case then it would make complete sense that the fault shows up after you open and close the screen a few times - that pencil thin fluoro tube is glued to a translucent white piece of plastic... and what if that glue job hasn't been done right... and you wiggle the hinge a few times... and Viola! - your backlight is sh*tted.

Just another theory...:rolleyes:

[jsd]

I don't feel like reading the whole thread, but if it makes anyone feel better about getting their screen fixed, I just had mine replaced for whitespots last week, and it only took two days to send it in and get it back.

I had a dark shadow on my screen, but I'm certain it was caused by the ambient temperature. If it's a pressure thing it could change based on temperature because the entire computer contracts and expands; for example, when it's cold, the PC card slot cover won't snap back into place by itself, and CDs won't eject from the drive completely. But the problems go away once it has run for a little while.

Guess it's a metal computer thing.

[jsd]

I wasn't diplomatic enough when I tried to have my computer swapped at an Apple Store for the white spots, so eventually, they just didn't want to help me anymore.

I tried, but it's harder for some people than for others. And the management at Apple can't override the store manager's decision. Plus, there doesn't seem to be any definitive plan for these screen problems. It's all very subjective.

[Paolo30]

yeah, you do have to be real nice or you don't get jack. My reseller was excellent toward me when I stopped (?) acting like a dick. Thank goodness for patient people...

[Paolo30]

Oooh oooh oooh - again with the statistics - I just found the site that mentioned the 25% failure rate! Unfortunately it's actually about white spot, not illumination. Still, I was close...
http://www.macfixit.com/staticpages/index.php?page=20031124074841479

[Darkside]

Originally posted by Paolo30
uh, I was talking to customer service... That's when things went downhill.:eek: Sorry, didn't realize that... and wow, really sorry to hear how it went with CS.

[Paolo30]

Yeah, thanks. Did you get sent a "Customer Care Survey" in the last couple of days? They made a terrible mistake by asking me what I thought about Apple Care....:D ...it was thesis material, man!
But back on topic, when I take my machine back in tomorrow I'm going to specify that they don't replace the screen, but replace the logic board instead. Might as well experiment with fixes rather than leave it to the Genius at the store.:rolleyes:
I'll keep you posted.
Sayonara!

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by Paolo30
Yeah, thanks. Did you get sent a "Customer Care Survey" in the last couple of days? They made a terrible mistake by asking me what I thought about Apple Care....:D ...it was thesis material, man!
But back on topic, when I take my machine back in tomorrow I'm going to specify that they don't replace the screen, but replace the logic board instead. Might as well experiment with fixes rather than leave it to the Genius at the store.:rolleyes:
I'll keep you posted.
Sayonara!

I would suggest that since the screen seems to not be the actual problem that they replace the motherboard and any connection cables. I would avoid trying to tell them there job.

[markfrautschi]

My thanks to all who participate in the forum. Sharing your experiences makes me a better informed consumer.

My unit was shipped from Taiwan in mid November 2003.

I am replying to the member who wondered whether there were any satisified 15 inch Al customers.

I have seen the lower right dimness problem come and go on my PB. Right now, it's absolutely perfect, which is what happens most of the time. Sometimes when I start up, I see this problem. I have wondered whether it might be temperature related.

I was able to demonstrate the problem to an Apple Genius at the bar in the Apple Store at Tyson's Corner in McLean, VA. He logged it.

It has never been severe enough to go through the absence replacing the screen would entail.

Do you know whether authorized apple repair stations can make the repair in house? I have been recommended to use MCIS http://www.mcis.com/ here in Southern MD.

Please e-mail me any feedback you have on this approach (in house? While you wait? Racous laughter!) and MCIS.

Thank you

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by markfrautschi
My thanks to all who participate in the forum. Sharing your experiences makes me a better informed consumer.

My unit was shipped from Taiwan in mid November 2003.

I am replying to the member who wondered whether there were any satisified 15 inch Al customers.

I have seen the lower right dimness problem come and go on my PB. Right now, it's absolutely perfect, which is what happens most of the time. Sometimes when I start up, I see this problem. I have wondered whether it might be temperature related.

I was able to demonstrate the problem to an Apple Genius at the bar in the Apple Store at Tyson's Corner in McLean, VA. He logged it.

It has never been severe enough to go through the absence replacing the screen would entail.

Do you know whether authorized apple repair stations can make the repair in house? I have been recommended to use MCIS http://www.mcis.com/ here in Southern MD.

Please e-mail me any feedback you have on this approach (in house? While you wait? Racous laughter!) and MCIS.

Thank you

The authorized repair places can in fact do the job but I think there must be some sort of Apple recommendation going on here because they want to send all the Al15 Powerbooks to Apple for repair even for something really really minor.

[Darkside]

*expletive*

I got my computer back from "repair" (HAH! I use the term loosely) on Monday, 2004/01/05. It is now Wednesday, 2004/01/07, and the right half of my screen is just as dark as it was before. Once again, the problem developed in under an hour. I've had my machine back for about two and a half days, and it's already horrible.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by Darkside
*expletive*

I got my computer back from "repair" (HAH! I use the term loosely) on Monday, 2004/01/05. It is now Wednesday, 2004/01/07, and the right half of my screen is just as dark as it was before. Once again, the problem developed in under an hour. I've had my machine back for about two and a half days, and it's already horrible.

Well I think it is definitely time to pursue the lemon law option. Call the better business bureau they should be able to tell you what the law says in your state. In most states it's 3 repair attempts without correction.

[Darkside]

Well now I'm baffled. After a full day of usage, the uneven illumination recurred. Right side drastically dimmer than left. Put it to sleep, same problem.

However, I left it sitting on my desk overnight. It went to sleep after almost an hour, and was alseep for 5-6 hours.

I woke it up this morning; still dimmer on the right half. Then it got gradually better as it warmed up, which it did before. But now, I can't see a difference at all, at any level of Brightness!

The difference between this time and last: I hardly ever put my PowerBook to sleep when it's just sitting on my desk. Normally, it stays up and running all night, but the display dims at 7.5 min and turns off at 15 min.

I'm not giving up, but I have to study this thing a bit longer before I send it into Apple. And I definately need to see the problem while I'm calling them. I have no doubt it will pop up again.

[MacBandit]

That sounds interesting almost like some chip warmed up or something expanded and made contact or something.

[Darkside]

Originally posted by Darkside
I have no doubt it will pop up again.And it did. This afternoon and evening, the darkening wasn't as drastic as the first time, but it's still there.

This time, instead of the dimmest areas being the bottom right corner and the right edge, it's more defuse, just generally dark on the whole right side.

[Darkside]

I called AppleCare today, and had a good experience. It was surprising... unfortunately, that makes it sad. But we'll focus on the good here.

The first Tech I spoke with was obviously running off his script. Fine, whatever; I have no problem with that until protocol becomes a hinderance.

I jumped through the hoops of shutting down, then resetting the PMU (Shift+Control+Option+Power for 2 sec) and PRAM (Option+Command+P+R; let the startup chime sound twice). Obviously, no effect.

Then he said that since I have third-party RAM, I'd have to remove it myself or at a service center. At which point I thanked him and ended the call. No further progress possible there.

I called back immediately, and got a Technician who actually seemed to care.

One thing Tech #1 said: after repair, machines are put through a 24 hour hardware test. I explained to Tech #2 that this machine was my livelyhood, and I was concerned I'd send it to be serviced just like before (maybe having just the screen replaced), only to have it returned to me still broken; even after their intensive testing. That got his attention.

He looked through the detailed notes from the repair, and mumbled (among many other things) something about "board". I asked him, "logic or inverter"? He seemed impress/appreciative that I knew what he was talking about. He said he doubted the logic board, and that it could be the inverter board. Also mentioned that they don't replace individual inverter boards; they'd replace "everything from the [screen] hinge up".

He got a Product Specialist in on the call. Described the problem to him: this recurrance gets worse with a longer duration of use. Because of this, the Specialist speculated that it could be the fault of some overworked video hardware... like the graphics chip... which he said is integrated with the logic board. *sigh*

He wrapped the call putting instructions to the repair techs in the case file to pay special attention to the video hardware during repair; then he issued a dispatch and shipped a box. I have greater expectations for this time through than I did for the first servicing. Hopefully Apple doesn't trample all over my trust again... But expectations and hope is where disapointment comes from. ;-)

[virividox]

i do hope the quality control issues get resovled soon

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by Darkside
I called AppleCare today, and had a good experience. It was surprising... unfortunately, that makes it sad. But we'll focus on the good here.

The first Tech I spoke with was obviously running off his script. Fine, whatever; I have no problem with that until protocol becomes a hinderance.

I jumped through the hoops of shutting down, then resetting the PMU (Shift+Control+Option+Power for 2 sec) and PRAM (Option+Command+P+R; let the startup chime sound twice). Obviously, no effect.

Then he said that since I have third-party RAM, I'd have to remove it myself or at a service center. At which point I thanked him and ended the call. No further progress possible there.

I called back immediately, and got a Technician who actually seemed to care.

One thing Tech #1 said: after repair, machines are put through a 24 hour hardware test. I explained to Tech #2 that this machine was my livelyhood, and I was concerned I'd send it to be serviced just like before (maybe having just the screen replaced), only to have it returned to me still broken; even after their intensive testing. That got his attention.

He looked through the detailed notes from the repair, and mumbled (among many other things) something about "board". I asked him, "logic or inverter"? He seemed impress/appreciative that I knew what he was talking about. He said he doubted the logic board, and that it could be the inverter board. Also mentioned that they don't replace individual inverter boards; they'd replace "everything from the [screen] hinge up".

He got a Product Specialist in on the call. Described the problem to him: this recurrance gets worse with a longer duration of use. Because of this, the Specialist speculated that it could be the fault of some overworked video hardware... like the graphics chip... which he said is integrated with the logic board. *sigh*

He wrapped the call putting instructions to the repair techs in the case file to pay special attention to the video hardware during repair; then he issued a dispatch and shipped a box. I have greater expectations for this time through than I did for the first servicing. Hopefully Apple doesn't trample all over my trust again... But expectations and hope is where disapointment comes from. ;-)

I'm glad to hear you finally got someone with a brain. It's pretty obvious that the problem is something besides the screen at this point and that they need to be diagnosing hardware upstream from it.

[Darkside]

Originally posted by MacBandit
I'm glad to hear you finally got someone with a brain.Yes, it was a nice change of pace to deal with someone intelligent. Thanks for quoting everything in my previous post; it was fun to reminisce. :D

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by Darkside
Thanks for quoting everything in my previous post; it was fun to reminisce. :D

Haha, sometimes I can't decide where to cut since the whole post was relevant to my reply.

[essepes]

The screen of my new 15" powerbook also showed white spots after a couple of weeks. It's a known problem and it had to be replaced. My reseller told me that the inside of the screen glued against the cover (?). It was repaired in a week. I think there's a whole new screen on it. The diagnosis on the repairform also says something about a Foam diffuser.

[Shaughn]

I wish I could get a feel for how big this problem is. It seems to be affecting less people than the white spot issue.

When I brought my PB into the Cambridgeside Apple Store in Boston, the tech had either never seen the problem or deserves an Oscar. He looked genuinely surprised and talked about white spotting, so he wasn't just giving me rhetoric.

We'll see. M zero key was falling off as well, so I had them look at the keyboard as well. Guy was very friendly and assured me that if the problem crept back up, it'd get fixed until it was right.

Not the most cost-effective fix, especially if they're just treating the symptom, but at least they're being proactive about it.

I'll keep you all posted. I love that Mac, and I hate being without it even though it's only been about 14 hours! :eek:

~S~

[Paolo30]

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha. I just got number 3 machine (number 4 screen), and I'm the proud owner of an unevenly illuminated lcd once more. Only now I'm told that this is within spec , so I have nothing to complain about.
Not that I'm complaining, mind you.

[michaelrjohnson]

whew! that took a while to get through. that aside...

i'm planning on purchasing this machine @ rev.b (obviously i'm planning on a rev.b sometime this spring/early summer as well). and being the grahic designer that i am, i demand perfection when it comes to my laptop screen (as this will also be my first laptop). so now, i'm not worried about whitespots, but i am worried about unveven illumination. {sigh} anyhow, my question is this:

i think macbandit posted that you should get a 3rd party support plan (as some may support accidental breakage, etc) where can I find these plans, and how good are they?

and a followup:

does anybody have a 3rd party care plan on their powerbook? good? bad? and can you purchase it later from another retailer (i.e. laptop bought from apple, a few months later, service plan bought from RetailerX)?

Thanks!

[sfleming]

Michael,
I bought my A/15" with Superdrive at CompUSA and they sell 3rd party packages as well. I have the white spots as well but will get a few more months of use out of this screen before I get it replaced. Besides they may have a better handle on the problem or perhaps have a better manufacturer in place by then.

[MacBandit]

I may have suggested 3rd party warranties but I do not recall at this moment for sure. There are certainly some better warranties out there then Apples. Some of them are performance based warranties so if the product doesn't function as you think it should they will replace or refund it. Also there is insurance coverage specifically for laptops available that will cover repairs even if the problem was user incurred like if you dropped it or something.

[Darkside]

Status: 3 displays failed over 2 machines; currently using 1st replacement, has Uneven Illumination (left side, bottom-right corner).

I just had the most infuriating call with a Product Specialist.

After I gave her my Case Number, she reviewed the notes and asked if I'd like to set up a repair. I told her I didn't want to send it in unless there was a solution that worked.

She checked a database and said there was no new information about the problem. I specifically asked if there was any new information from my previous system, which was captured by Engineering for evaluation; the answer was "no".

Then, I asked if she knew of any other cases of this problem. The Product Specialist confirmed that Apple knows about Uneven Illumination, and that her records indicated 4 systems had been captured by Engineering for review. She didn't reluctantly state this; she immediately and confidently said "oh yes", it was well known.

This poses an interesting question, which I asked her: If Apple is aware of the issue, but the information available to Product Specialists and Technicians doesn't include a fix, why are they still authorizing customers' requests for repairs, or suggesting repairs themselves, as my Product Specialist did?

Her response: they are still having systems sent in for repair, and are replacing parts, so they can find out what will actually fix the problem. If no recurrences are reported after a repair, they know that replacement part could be the solution.

Think about that! Apple is using their customers as guinea pigs, blindly replacing parts without clear knowledge of what will actually fix Uneven Illumination!

If they are replacing parts, trying to find a cause, I asked the Product Specialist why only one part, the LCD, is usually replaced. Since so many people in these Discussions have had their screen replaced and still have Uneven Illumination recur, why are they still replacing only the LCD?

She said, "because the LCD is the most common cause". My Product Specialist said Apple doesn't know what's causing Uneven Illumination, and that the LCD is the most common cause!

My Product Specialist is either incompetent, lying to me... or she's confirming Apple is selling defective systems, with no resolution in site, and is wasting the time and money of customers, trying to find a solution by replacing parts in already-purchased systems sent in for repair and seeing if they fail again.

The Product Specialist sent a Request for Technical Assistance (RTA) to Engineering. Initially, she said there would be a response in 5 days, and that she would call me; she also gave me her direct number.

After I grilled her about their process and got conflicting information, I asked to speak with a Customer Relations agent. She then suggested we wait until after the RTA came back; she then marked the RTA as "Business Critical", which supposedly ensures a response from Engineering in 3 business days.

"It will definitely come back by Thursday", she said; the Request will be available to Engineering tomorrow morning. However, she then said she would call me "either Thursday or Friday". So much for the 3-day guarantee.

I don't know what to do. I need a PowerBook; a refund and return won't do any good. I have too much experience and money invested in Apple and MacOS to switch to disgusting Windows. A replacement machine, on the slim chance they authorize it, still means I'll be without a system for a week; and with the current track record, the replacement system will be failing in two weeks anyway.

Meanwhile, the time left on my AppleCare warranty keeps slipping away. By the time I get a fully-functional, lasting system, who knows how little coverage I'll have on it? When they do finally and completely solve this problem, I'm going to insist my 3 years of coverage start from that point.

[HJR]

Does anybody know if the problem can be fixed by Apple. My Powerbook is suffering from this problem, and I really would like to send it back only if they can fix the problem 100%.

[idkew]

i demand perfection. i demand apple reduce their tolerance from mimmimeters to nanometers. i demand that there is never a dead pixel. i demand apple release software only after it is completely, utterly, 100% bug free. i demand i get all this, at a lower price.


:eek:

[BakedBeans]

blah blah blah...sorry.....deleted....

[HJR]

i demand perfection. i demand apple reduce their tolerance from mimmimeters to nanometers. i demand that there is never a dead pixel. i demand apple release software only after it is completely, utterly, 100% bug free. i demand i get all this, at a lower price.


:eek:

WTF?? Can't you give us a normal answer. I read on some forums that Apple was unable to solve te problem and now I am only asking if people got their laptop back from repair and do not suffer uneven illumination after that...

Again WTF is wron with you.... :confused:

[MacBandit]

WTF?? Can't you give us a normal answer. I read on some forums that Apple was unable to solve te problem and now I am only asking if people got their laptop back from repair and do not suffer uneven illumination after that...

Again WTF is wron with you.... :confused:

Don't worry about him you would have to know him a bit better to realize he's making a smart a** remark.

As far as I know the screens have been fixed. I got a Al15" in November which was of the second batch and have never had any problems with the screen.

[Anticipat3]

I just got my 15" Alu a week or two ago, and It's been perfect so far...

Reading this thread has made me think about extending the coverage though =O. Though if it makes it a full year without problems, you'd think it'll be OK from there...

[idkew]

I just got my 15" Alu a week or two ago, and It's been perfect so far...

Reading this thread has made me think about extending the coverage though =O. Though if it makes it a full year without problems, you'd think it'll be OK from there...


just be sure to get applecare with time to spare. sometimes apple bases the year of protection from the manufacturing date. (if you buy off ebay, this seems to be the case, if you buy from apple, they know when it was sold).

i would rec. applecare for a laptop, just becase the chances a repair costs more than $350 is almost 100%.

[Chrispy]

Hey all. I just got my brand new 1.5GHz 15" Powerbook on the 3rd of Feb and already I have noticed the upper left corner is about 2 or 3 notches darker than the rest of the screen :eek: Is this a problem apple is still having even on the new powerbooks??? I have had the WORST experience with apple and their quality control/customer service over the last month leading up to even having this laptop and I shudder to think about having to go through that again.... Is this something apple sees as a defect? Can I get them to give a replacement? Thanks.

[Demon Hunter]

Status: 3 displays failed over 2 machines; currently using 1st replacement, has Uneven Illumination (left side, bottom-right corner).

I just had the most infuriating call with a Product Specialist.

After I gave her my Case Number, she reviewed the notes and asked if I'd like to set up a repair. I told her I didn't want to send it in unless there was a solution that worked.

She checked a database and said there was no new information about the problem. I specifically asked if there was any new information from my previous system, which was captured by Engineering for evaluation; the answer was "no".

Then, I asked if she knew of any other cases of this problem. The Product Specialist confirmed that Apple knows about Uneven Illumination, and that her records indicated 4 systems had been captured by Engineering for review. She didn't reluctantly state this; she immediately and confidently said "oh yes", it was well known.

This poses an interesting question, which I asked her: If Apple is aware of the issue, but the information available to Product Specialists and Technicians doesn't include a fix, why are they still authorizing customers' requests for repairs, or suggesting repairs themselves, as my Product Specialist did?

Her response: they are still having systems sent in for repair, and are replacing parts, so they can find out what will actually fix the problem. If no recurrences are reported after a repair, they know that replacement part could be the solution.

Think about that! Apple is using their customers as guinea pigs, blindly replacing parts without clear knowledge of what will actually fix Uneven Illumination!

If they are replacing parts, trying to find a cause, I asked the Product Specialist why only one part, the LCD, is usually replaced. Since so many people in these Discussions have had their screen replaced and still have Uneven Illumination recur, why are they still replacing only the LCD?

She said, "because the LCD is the most common cause". My Product Specialist said Apple doesn't know what's causing Uneven Illumination, and that the LCD is the most common cause!

My Product Specialist is either incompetent, lying to me... or she's confirming Apple is selling defective systems, with no resolution in site, and is wasting the time and money of customers, trying to find a solution by replacing parts in already-purchased systems sent in for repair and seeing if they fail again.

The Product Specialist sent a Request for Technical Assistance (RTA) to Engineering. Initially, she said there would be a response in 5 days, and that she would call me; she also gave me her direct number.

After I grilled her about their process and got conflicting information, I asked to speak with a Customer Relations agent. She then suggested we wait until after the RTA came back; she then marked the RTA as "Business Critical", which supposedly ensures a response from Engineering in 3 business days.

"It will definitely come back by Thursday", she said; the Request will be available to Engineering tomorrow morning. However, she then said she would call me "either Thursday or Friday". So much for the 3-day guarantee.

I don't know what to do. I need a PowerBook; a refund and return won't do any good. I have too much experience and money invested in Apple and MacOS to switch to disgusting Windows. A replacement machine, on the slim chance they authorize it, still means I'll be without a system for a week; and with the current track record, the replacement system will be failing in two weeks anyway.

Meanwhile, the time left on my AppleCare warranty keeps slipping away. By the time I get a fully-functional, lasting system, who knows how little coverage I'll have on it? When they do finally and completely solve this problem, I'm going to insist my 3 years of coverage start from that point.

First of all, I'm so sorry. I understand what you're going through, as I've sent my Rev. B PB 15" 4 times for problems related with an uneven, poor quality keyboard, illumination and shoddy repairs. At this point my case has been "escalated" to Engineering and I'm awaiting a response.

I've really lost my faith in the 15" model, among other things. I never hear of any widespread problems with the 12" or 17"... and of course those are extremes and that makes choosing difficult. If they offer me a replacement this time I don't know what I will do.

It's just unacceptable that they keep offering a repair and a) nothing gets fixed or b) they make things worse.

[Mechcozmo]

I did demand a replacement machine this morning, but was told that there would be a wait "of many weeks" for the 15"....I wonder why.... but that apple would be more than happy to replace the screen. Gee. So generous. I get to wait an unknown period of time for a fix that no-one is willing to guarantee in any way. I got kind of pissed and asked to be upgraded to a 17", and was told in no uncertain terms that "that would not occur." The Apple people I've talked to seem to have the attitude that it's MY fault the screen is....well...less than perfect. You know, the customer care person I spoke with today told me that "nothing in life comes with a guarantee"

Wow, nice job at ticking Apple off. I had an issue with my 12" PowerBook. They seemed to assume that it was my fault (and with a laptop, I might do the same-- who knows what happens to em?) but after 1:05 on the phone I'm shipping it in today. I was polite, explained whatever they asked, and was honest. I did not demand anything-- not even that they fix it (due to the nature of the problem, they were considering the possibility that it was falling damage which I explained why it wasn't). Be nice, it gets done. I was on hold for ~15 minutes too, and yet didn't ask why. Just be nice to em!