Poor John McCain. Even his font is wrong.

[Thomas Veil]

Speaking of logos...

Here's an amusing op-ed piece (http://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/21/mccains-optimum-look/) from The New York Times. Not really issues-related enough to go into the PRSI forum, so I put it here.

Apparently a number of graphics designers don't think much of John McCain's campaign logo, particularly his use of Optima font. Can't say I much care for it myself.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/04/21/opinion/mccainlogo-190.gif

A sampling of comments:

Debbie Millman, president of design, Sterling Brands

While I doubt that Senator McCain studied the subtle nuances of this popular face it says to me that his crafty design team aggressively attempted to appeal to voters with more traditional inclinations as well as those with slightly more progressive leanings. However, this multifaceted effort could easily backfire: it is still a rather bland face being used in a rather bland way.Ellen Lupton, curator of contemporary design, Cooper-Hewitt National Design Museum

Optima attempted to merge characteristics of serif and sans serif typefaces. You could call it a centrist font. I’m sure John McCain’s design consultants know that Optima is the typeface used on Maya Lin’s Vietnam Memorial.Drew Hodges, director, SpotCo

Optima always says to me ’70s nerd — perhaps because I was one — but it sort of reeks of old thrift-shop, Danish furniture, and not in a good way; not in a Dansk pepper mill way.Thomas Porostocky, art director, I.D. Magazine

With a mix of Roman dignity and a subtle military presence, the typeface communicates the qualities seemingly most important to the candidate; honor and virtue. One could also say there is a slight sense of quirkiness that is also apparent in the candidate. But it is still a safe choice.Cyrus Highsmith, typeface designer

For some reason, almost every dentist and orthodontist seems to use Optima for their letterhead. Therefore, while Optima is a great typeface I tend to associate with getting teeth drilled.At least it isn't Times New Roman. :rolleyes:

[P-Worm]

I didn't realize so many people cared about this sort of thing.

P-Worm

[PlaceofDis]

I didn't realize so many people cared about this sort of thing.

P-Worm

i didn't either. nor did i realize it was such a science.

[r.j.s]

Some people have WAY too much time on their hands to care about this.

[friarbayliff]

This stuff is very closely studied because it does affect us on some subconscious level. One of the reviewers talked about how subtle changes in the lighting content of a room can darken or lighten the mood, despite the fact that nobody in their right mind ever consciously notices these things.

I guess in that sense it would be important for a candidate's design team to really heavily consider the subtleties of campaign logos and typefaces.

[obeygiant]

McCain

*SNIFF* beautiful...

[Lord Blackadder]

Good grief - this defines pedantry!

When I wrote my master's thesis I deliberately chose Times New Roman because it was boring and I wanted to avoid trying a different font and making some sort of formatting faux pas. Now I realize that some people will be making broad character judgments about me based on that choice...scary! :eek:

I agree that font choice can have a major effect on the tone or mood of a piece of writing, but I'm ignorant of the nuances of font choice. I go with gut reactions.

[themadchemist]

also from the piece:


Rudy VanderLans, founder of Emigre Type

What does Optima say about Senator McCain? Nothing. It probably says more about the designer than anything else. Who, except designers, would judge a candidate by the typeface?

[Thomas Veil]

McCain

*SNIFF* beautiful...For some reason, I equate that with Charlie Brown. :D

[decksnap]

One of the reasons this is such a big deal this time 'round is because Obama's marketing is probably the best we've ever seen for a candidate. His website is amazing, and designers are falling all over themselves complementing his use of Gotham as one of his main typefaces.

[és:]

http://www.talkingretail.com/a/main/063D8AEA-1B92-11D9-A258-B96F2D727A86/A7E96EA8-4106-11DC-829F-3626640B077D/7B905072-45A4-11DC-9A62-D553640B077D.jpg

Don't like the guy, but his chips are alright.

[nick9191]

I was just thinking that font somewhat resembled the McCain's Chips font.

[Iscariot]

I didn't realize so many people cared about this sort of thing.

P-Worm

Some people have WAY too much time on their hands to care about this.

McCain

*SNIFF* beautiful...

Good grief - this defines pedantry!

When I wrote my master's thesis I deliberately chose Times New Roman because it was boring and I wanted to avoid trying a different font and making some sort of formatting faux pas. Now I realize that some people will be making broad character judgments about me based on that choice...scary! :eek:

I agree that font choice can have a major effect on the tone or mood of a piece of writing, but I'm ignorant of the nuances of font choice. I go with gut reactions.

You guys better watch it. Some of us designers still have lead type slugs, and we can whip them pretty hard...

[Thomas Veil]

When I wrote my master's thesis I deliberately chose Times New Roman because it was boring and I wanted to avoid trying a different font and making some sort of formatting faux pas.I think for that purpose Times is a good choice. A master's thesis is no place to be trying to impress people with your font style. You're presenting straightforward information, not marketing something.

I do have to say that on McCain's logo, even the star is unimaginative: straight out of Zapf Dingbats.

Edwards had an even plainer star, but at least it was clean and simple, and it had a trail shooting out of it as it rose in the sky.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/ac/John_Edwards_logo.jpg/200px-John_Edwards_logo.jpg

[.Andy]

When I wrote my master's thesis I deliberately chose Times New Roman because it was boring and I wanted to avoid trying a different font and making some sort of formatting faux pas.
You had a choice? Most universities are pretty strict on which font is acceptable for theses.

http://www.talkingretail.com/a/main/063D8AEA-1B92-11D9-A258-B96F2D727A86/A7E96EA8-4106-11DC-829F-3626640B077D/7B905072-45A4-11DC-9A62-D553640B077D.jpg

Don't like the guy, but his chips are alright.
This is exactly what I think when I see that logo és.

[iJesus]

Yeah, font does have a sort of subliminal effect on us.
Like, I made a quick mockup of the logo above but using different font.

[themadchemist]

Yeah, font does have a sort of subliminal effect on us.
Like, I made a quick mockup of the logo above but using different font.

Interesting. It makes me think of Texas--a ranch or something. Perhaps not the message he wants to be sending out (if he's trying to distance himself from Bush). ;) But you're right, it does indeed make an impression, more than I would have thought prior to your exercise.

[iJesus]

Interesting. It makes me think of Texas--a ranch or something. Perhaps not the message he wants to be sending out (if he's trying to distance himself from Bush). ;) But you're right, it does indeed make an impression, more than I would have thought prior to your exercise.

Haha, yup. If you didn't catch it... right below "McCain" it says "Don't vote for McBush". hehe.

[themadchemist]

Haha, yup. If you didn't catch it... right below "McCain" it says "Don't vote for McBush". hehe.

You're kidding right?

But seriously, if that's what you were going for, you were dead on. You might have a future in this stuff.

[iJesus]

You're kidding right?

But seriously, if that's what you were going for, you were dead on. You might have a future in this stuff.

Naw, not kidding. It says that in very very dark font. Almost the same black as the background :p

[David G.]

Naw, not kidding. It says that in very very dark font. Almost the same black as the background :p

I...(10 sec. pause) I see it!

[themadchemist]

Naw, not kidding. It says that in very very dark font. Almost the same black as the background :p

Then it's this sh*tty monitor I'm using.

[PlaceofDis]

Then it's this sh*tty monitor I'm using.

try highlighting it. you can see it a bit better then.

i understand and know that font has an impact. i mean look at fedex as the best example. but i think its a bit much to criticize a political candidate for personally. even if it does have a small effect.

[Xeem]

I really don't mind the logo; it is very simple, and I think it will hold up well as it slowly disappears from car bumpers over the next 10 years (I still see a lot of Gore/Lieberman bumper stickers!), but I should admit that I've always really liked Optima (and all Zapf fonts, really). For better or for worse, it is definitely a much more traditional-feeling campaign logo when compared with Obama's, which is very clean but kind of makes me think like I'm staring at a logo for an energy company:

http://www.dzre.com/alex/Obama08_ThumbLogo200.gifhttp://badbanana.typepad.com/weblog/images/2007/05/25/6a00d4141f3422685e00d09e5d609dbe2b5.png

[themadchemist]

try highlighting it. you can see it a bit better then.

i understand and know that font has an impact. i mean look at fedex as the best example. but i think its a bit much to criticize a political candidate for personally. even if it does have a small effect.

Yeah, I can sort of make it out now, thanks for the tip. But man! You guys must have way better eyes than me, because I really had to squint just to make out that there were words at all, and even then, I could barely read them.

[Abstract]

McCain

*SNIFF* beautiful...

Haha, hilarious. Reminds me of my graphic designer friend's "Ban Comic Sans" hooded jumper. He gave me a lecture on that font. We went off.



i didn't either. nor did i realize it was such a science.

Come on, we all know there are only around 4 real fonts, where almost half of them are just slight deviations of Arial. ;)

[fluidedge]

I was once told - Anyone who doesn't like Comic Sans doesn't understand typography, and anyone who does, doesn't understand typography.

[JML42691]

I don't understand people's problem with it, a font is a font, with the exception of Comic Sans, which I don't like, but mainly because it seems like it is over-used. I clearly don't understand the typography thing regarding Comic Sans, somebody mind explaining it?

[wheezy]

I judge font usage a little bit... mostly just the overuse of Comic Sans and a few others that appear in every sub-amateur logo design. However, the degree that those 'font critics' picked it apart is just... I thought that kind of elitism only existed in Hollywood.

[BlakTornado]

How about this... :p

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/708/mccainof2.png

[fluidedge]

I don't understand people's problem with it, a font is a font, with the exception of Comic Sans, which I don't like, but mainly because it seems like it is over-used. I clearly don't understand the typography thing regarding Comic Sans, somebody mind explaining it?

Comic Sans is used as a COMIC font. If you use it in the right context it's a great font.

When it's used for every letter/poster/sign on the planet it gets annoying i know. But for people just to bash it because it's fashionable to is equally annoying to me.

[joepunk]

The McCain logo has that military look about it too.

[mcnicks]

Isn't it more significant that the star and line is reminiscent of the insignia of Commander in the US Navy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:US_Navy_O5_insignia.svg

[fluidedge]

couldn't look less like it if you ask me

[ErikCLDR]

I really don't mind the logo; it is very simple, and I think it will hold up well as it slowly disappears from car bumpers over the next 10 years (I still see a lot of Gore/Lieberman bumper stickers!), but I should admit that I've always really liked Optima (and all Zapf fonts, really). For better or for worse, it is definitely a much more traditional-feeling campaign logo when compared with Obama's, which is very clean but kind of makes me think like I'm staring at a logo for an energy company:

http://www.dzre.com/alex/Obama08_ThumbLogo200.gifhttp://badbanana.typepad.com/weblog/images/2007/05/25/6a00d4141f3422685e00d09e5d609dbe2b5.png

I think McCains is better looking between the two. Much simpler and I don't associate with the font with dentists.

When I look at Obama the font looks really basic like they used the default font. The font is also very thin, not beefy looking like McCains. For a person that wants to do so much his name doesn't look powerful. The apostrophe I think is a little awkward too, not to mention the lack of a space to signify two different words. The Rising sun over the stripes in cute, but distracts from the name Obama. It reminds me of the label of a box of raisins or some prepackaged fruit product. Or it reminds me of some communications company logo.

I am sure you can find problems with everything if you look for them hard enough.

[JoeG4]

I'm probably not going to vote for John McCain, but this just proves that people will do anything .. ANYTHING to make anyone but Barrack Obama look bad.

It's irritating, and the main reason I don't want to vote for Obama. The amount of nitpicking/insulting/racism/sexism his opponents have suffered is ridiculous.

[klymr]

...

Come on, we all know there are only around 4 real fonts, where almost half of them are just slight deviations of Arial. ;)

I believe Helvetica was around way before Arial, so wouldn't that mean that they are deviations of Helvetica? ;)

[Don't panic]

Yeah, I can sort of make it out now, thanks for the tip. But man! You guys must have way better eyes than me, because I really had to squint just to make out that there were words at all, and even then, I could barely read them.

try now ;)

[obeygiant]

I believe Helvetica was around way before Arial, so wouldn't that mean that they are deviations of Helvetica? ;)

I thought all fonts we're deviated from FIXEDSYS. lol

[ezekielrage_99]

McCain

*SNIFF* beautiful...

You beat me to it... :D

[Iscariot]

I was once told - Anyone who doesn't like Comic Sans doesn't understand typography, and anyone who does, doesn't understand typography.

It's technically poor, but it's spectacularly effective at reaching it's target audience. It's a question of ends vs. means.

[Les Kern]

Hell with the font. They need to do something about this:

[whooleytoo]

Hell with the font. They need to do something about this:

Not just the smile, but the forced laugh that goes with it.

I have a lot of respect for the guy, but whoever advised him to insert laughter to connect with the crowd needs a slap. It just sounds horribly forced and fake.

[displaced]

Hell with the font. They need to do something about this:

Not to beat this particular dead-horse of a joke, but:


How about this instead?

http://images.ciao.com/iuk/images/products/normal/209/product-5339209.jpg

[themadchemist]

How about this... :p

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/708/mccainof2.png

Now that just reminds me of that movie Team America. "America...**** yeah!"

And Don't panic, thank you!

[idyll]

I feel like McCain is lacking design-wise all over. I doubt his voters care about this sort of thing though