Saddam Hussein Arrested

[Wardofsky]

Just read on BBC.co.uk...
Let's see what happens as time passes.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/3317429.stm

Ousted Iraqi President Saddam Hussein has been arrested in Iraq, according to an unconfirmed report.

The former Iraqi leader was detained in his ancestral home town of Tikrit, the official Iranian news agency IRNA reported.

The US Defence Department said it had no confirmation of the report.

Saddam Hussein is the most wanted man on the list issued by US authorities but has not been seen since Baghdad fell to US forces in April.

[Wes]

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1115282,00.html

And on Sky News.

[alset]

And on US television.... MSNBC.

Dan

[mcrain]

Holy cow, they are announcing that we caught Saddam.

Sorry if someone else is posting this at the same time.

[mcrain]

This is amazing. I posted this same thing in the political forums. Sorry for the double post.

[robbieduncan]

Wow. Whilst I think that the war was a bad idea I have to say that this is a positive development. He should be made to answer for his crimes.

[iGav]

they need to be able to positively ID him, otherwise we could end up with a Eminem situation what with all his stunt doubles knocking around!

Will the real Slim Shady.... please stand up??? :eek: :p :p :p

[Wes]

A defense analysist on Sky news said that he was picked up yesterday afternoon and that they have already gone a bloodtest and it is indeed him. Official press conference 55 minutes.

[sebisworld]

Oh man. I was planning on getting those 25 million.

[Oirectine]

Originally posted by iGAV
they need to be able to positively ID him, otherwise we could end up with a Eminem situation what with all his stunt doubles knocking around!

Will the real Slim Shady.... please stand up??? :eek: :p :p :p


I'm reading that they have matched his scars and DNA... that's some stunt double!

[edesignuk]

They're showing footage of him on channel 4 NOW! Looks like they realy have got him! :eek:

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39633000/jpg/_39633981_saddamcaptured203.jpg

[Wardofsky]

I watched the press conference via satellite feed, it's weird, it reminded me of waiting for a MacWorld broadcast...

The General Sanchez fellow didn't seem to know much when he was being question such as;
"That is not yet dertermined"
"We will interrogate him until we get our information"

He gave us the jist of what they were doing without telling us what they were doing...

I missed a Jazz documentary because of the press conference :p

[edesignuk]

I for one think they should just kill him and be done with it. IMO as long as he is alive there will be those who want to free him, and will go to extraordinary lengths (hostage takings etc) to accomplish this task.

[hvfsl]

Originally posted by edesignuk
I for one think they should just kill him and be done with it. IMO as long as he is alive there will be those who want to free him, and will go to extraordinary lengths (hostage takings etc) to accomplish this task.

Then he will become a marter, they should put him in an Iraq court and let the people decide what to do.

I personally think they should put him on show somewhere for a bit so people can shout at him etc. But I expect it is against some international law or something.

[Wes]

Originally posted by edesignuk
I for one think they should just kill him and be done with it. IMO as long as he is alive there will be those who want to free him, and will go to extraordinary lengths (hostage takings etc) to accomplish this task.

And make him a martyr? Just put him back in that hole and put bars over it. Make him seem like a normal person, not the all-powerful man he made himself out to be.

Didn't see hvfsl's post.

[AmigoMac]

Tomorrow it will be notified that he is outside Iraq, unknown place and ready to be processed....;) ... good for those in Iraq who can live better now...

[edesignuk]

- hvfsl & Wes

How would him being killed by 'us' make him a martyr (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=martyr)?
It wouldn't be like he is sacrificing himself for his cause. It'd be him being killed by others for his crimes. He wouldn't be choosing death, it'd be falsed upon him.

[Wardofsky]

If you kill him it's a lesson he'll never remember... he's dead.
If you put him in jail he'll suffer for what he's done in the past.

I don't think I could personally kill someone or give the order to do so, imprison him I think is my preference...

And give him some community work.

[G4scott]

I think he should be tried as planned, but he shouldn't get off like every other tyrant in history, who just got house arrest... They should let the Iraqi people prosecute him, and decide his fate.

[G4scott]

Originally posted by Wardofsky
If you kill him it's a lesson he'll never remember... he's dead.
If you put him in jail he'll suffer for what he's done in the past.

I don't think I could personally kill someone or give the order to do so, imprison him I think is my preference...

And give him some community work.

The thing is, he doesn't care about what he's done. He isn't just someone we can 'rehabilitate' and let out into the world again. If he could kill more of his opponents, he would. The thing is, if he dies, then you'll have his followers going crazy, attacking the US Military and innocent Iraqis that oppose Saddam. If he lives, though, those same supporters of Saddam will keep on fighting to save him. I think the thing to do is let the Iraqis deal with him.

[Stelliform]

...

[Wes]

Yeah we could have Dictator Idol, he would have to sing for his life every week.

[Dont Hurt Me]

This is fantastic news, i was for George going in and getting this bastard child and they did it, im sorry it has taken over 400 of our servicemen lives to catch this killer dictator It has been the right thing to do no matter what all the democrats have been trying to Spin. Maybe this will shut up Howard Dean for a while. After all he had changed his tune and said he opposed the war. im sure he will have a new spin;) Anyways way to go American Troops! way to go George Bush!:D

[Wardofsky]

They may have caught the dictator, but there's still the problem of fixing the country...
They need to get their priorities straight, the can't install democracy when there is still no power, or either when people are still dying; Iraqi, American, British, Italian, Spanish and Australian

[Dont Hurt Me]

This is a major step in fixing the country, as long as he was running around there would always be doubt for those thousands and thousands of families whom he had killed family members. This needed to be done a long time ago. I noticed old Jacque the Chirac was one of the first to come out and say this was good news but where the heck was he when we wanted to go in? I cant wait to hear all the double talk from the Democratic Party on this. George has removed another issue from them. Now he just has to get Bin Laden and then we need to do something about that Crazy N. Korean. Its just a shame there are so many appeasers in the world. Im Glad our President is not a Appeaser.!

[Wardofsky]

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
This is a major step in fixing the country, as long as he was running around there would always be doubt for those thousands and thousands of families whom he had killed family members. This needed to be done a long time ago. I noticed old Jacque the Chirac was one of the first to come out and say this was good news but where the heck was he when we wanted to go in? I cant wait to hear all the double talk from the Democratic Party on this. George has removed another issue from them. Now he just has to get Bin Laden and then we need to do something about that Crazy N. Korean. Its just a shame there are so many appeasers in the world. Im Glad our President is not a Appeaser.!

Yes I agree, capturing Saddam helps but there's still a long way to go.
In terms of Mr. Bush not being an Appeaser is dertermined by the way you percieve him. :D

[Kenny Pollock]

WOOT, CAPTURED.
Been watching CNN for hours :)

[Sayhey]

It is a wonderful thing for the Iraqi people. I hope it will be the beginning of the end of the conflict, but I suspect the hostilities will escalate in the short term. We will find out in a few months to what extent there are others directing the war against US forces.

He richly deserves whatever punishment the Iraqis choose to give him. Just how the US led provisional government is going to get together a war crimes tribunal capable of meeting the standards that a democratic Iraq will need to show will be very interesting to watch.

[mactastic]

Nice! One less A-hole running around loose in the world.:D

Hey Osama... Seen the news today?

[Dont Hurt Me]

Osama is next! Its pretty cool they got this turkey alive! i was expecting them to drag out his lifeless boddy and show it to the world.:cool:

[eyelikeart]

My god...he looks like he's aged 20 years.

[iGav]

Originally posted by eyelikeart
My god...he looks like he's aged 20 years.

when you see the side by side slides of him just after being captured, and then after they've shaved the scuzzy bastard, he looks like he has for the last 24 years.

Personally I think death is far too good for him, my whole campaign of dis-information for these kind of scum bags, would include taking tham to Vegas, whilst wearing a 'I Love NY' shirt on, a pair of Nikes on his feet, holding a can of Pepsi/Coke Cola, surrounded by Vegas show girls, and them get him to say how great the West and the U.S. is.... that'd shame him just dandy!

Then I'd stick him in a Texas Jail and let the good old boys take him under their wings ;) :p :p

[Dont Hurt Me]

They ought to put him in a steel cage and have a world tour, you know so people can spit on him as he goes by:eek:

[Sunrunner]

This sort of a capture couldn't be better for illustrating to the Iraqi people thei kind of person Saddam really was... a paranoid, war-mongering coward.

...caught like a rat! sitting in a dank hole in a basement, looking like the unabomber! hehehehe:D

[mcrain]

The prisons over there are full of people he put there. I say just stick him in with their prison population, and he won't be around for very long.

[applemacdude]

He deserves to get a banana stuck up his ass.

Its good news. It will help Pres. Bush with his re-election campaign next year. Now why dont they capture Osama?

[IJ Reilly]

Originally posted by Sayhey
He richly deserves whatever punishment the Iraqis choose to give him. Just how the US led provisional government is going to get together a war crimes tribunal capable of meeting the standards that a democratic Iraq will need to show will be very interesting to watch.

Surely it will. In an NPR interview this morning, Bill Frist was asked "what's next," and had to admit he didn't know. I was a little troubled by that response. It isn't like they haven't had time to consider what they'd do with Saddam once they captured him.

[gwuMACaddict]

Originally posted by applemacdude
Now why dont they capture Osama?

according to the Star at my local supermarket by the checkout isle, sadaam and osoma were gay lovers... so maybe osama is nearby... according to the Star ;) ;)

[Dahl]

I hope they deal with him in Iraq.
Don't bring him to the U.S.A.

[pseudobrit]

In other news, we still haven't caught the the man behind September 11.

[Dahl]

Originally posted by pseudobrit
In other news, we still haven't caught the the man behind September 11.
Exactly!
I wonder why many will remember that, when elections come around in 2004.

[amnesiac1984]

Originally posted by IJ Reilly
Surely it will. In an NPR interview this morning, Bill Frist was asked "what's next," and had to admit he didn't know. I was a little troubled by that response. It isn't like they haven't had time to consider what they'd do with Saddam once they captured him.

possibly cos they are not that concerned as long as they can get the oil and water $$$ rolling in

edit: this is a great day for the iraqi people (hopefully) as long as they get there free democratic country back soon.

[IJ Reilly]

Originally posted by Dahl
I hope they deal with him in Iraq.
Don't bring him to the U.S.A.
Or Guantanamo. I doubt either will happen. I'd expect some sort of tribunal in Iraq, which if it can be conducted in an orderly fashion, would go along way toward national reconciliation. Another possibility would be the Hague, but that seems doubtful considering the administration's attitude towards international institutions they can't control. Either way, this is a good place for the US government and the provisional authority to back off, and let the Iraqi people decide. We'll see if that much discipline is exerted.

[Dont Hurt Me]

Originally posted by pseudobrit
In other news, we still haven't caught the the man behind September 11. To bad Clinton didnt get this guy when he had the chance. I think its just a matter of time and they will get him to unless he is being hidden in Pakistan. Anyways a Great day For Iraq, our military and George Bush.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by Dahl
Exactly!
I wonder why many will remember that, when elections come around in 2004.

bin laden is a much bigger catch in my opinion...bush cannot brush off not catching bin laden...we had no business in iraq so we should get out fairly quickly and focus on catching the mastermind bin laden, who waged the biggest attack on us soil, even bigger than pearl harbor

[rainman::|:|]

yeah, it's great that they caught him, and it'll be a healing experience for the world that he will be tried for his crimes, but um... you guys do remember that he has nothing to do with the war on terror, right? he didn't order the planes to fly into our buildings... osama did. where is osama? why have we forgotten about him? will we continue to forget? will they try to convince us that Bush has accomplished his goals here?

bait-and-switch.

like i said, great that they caught the bastard. but this is not our objective in the WOT. America is not safer.

paul

[Doctor Q]

I heard the news because someone called me and said "turn on the news!" The last time that happened to me was 9/11.

According to the news, they found Saddam hiding in a small hole in the ground, and he gave up without a fight. He looked like a homeless man. They tracked him down by interviewing person after person who might know about his whereabouts until they got a good lead.

[Dont Hurt Me]

Its not bait and switch, its just the same Democratic politics. Saddam was about not living up to what he agreed to in the first gulf war & killing thousands of his own people. He will be tried on crimes against humanity and it sure isnt because of the Democratic party thank you. Democrats & Bill Clinton were pretty content with appeasement were they not? Bill could have had Bin Laden but it really just much easier and more politicaly correct to do nothing. well we have Elected a pro active President rather then a appeaser. They are looking for Bin Laden and just as Saddam they will get him to. Then what are the democrats going to do? All they are running on is hate of George Bush and how Gore lost the election. How about some real ideas. Howard Dean sounds like he would have been just fine with Saddam in power. I guess we will a lot of SPIN coming out of the democratic party now that Saddam has got captured. Please continue the Spin:D

[jrv3034]

Originally posted by paulwhannel
you guys do remember that he has nothing to do with the war on terror, right? he didn't order the planes to fly into our buildings... osama did. where is osama?

like i said, great that they caught the bastard. but this is not our objective in the WOT. America is not safer.

paul

Bingo. I'm glad for the Iraqi people, but this has little to do with our war on terror.:(

[Dont Hurt Me]

Lets see Bin Laden is reponsible for what 3000 deaths? multiply that by over 100 times ( and that is a conservative estimate ) and you have the deaths Saddam is responsible. who is the bigger terrorist? How can you say getting rid of Saddam has little to do on the war on terror? take off those Democratic Spin glasses you are wearing and open your eyes.

[rainman::|:|]

don't hurt me: why did bush have to lie about why we went in? if he's not an appeaser? all this thing has been since the beginning is a giant spin war. the democrats would have no problem taking saddam out, for violations of UN resolutions and human rights violations, but THAT'S NOT WHY WE WENT IN TO IRAQ. Bush LIED. WMDs? no. diversion from our inability to find osama? yes.

paul

[abdul]

dont you think he looks a bit like santa a bit (apart from the fact he is arab and is thin.....but do you still see the resemb :D )

[skunk]

Not so much of the Ho Ho Ho these days, I expect....

[jrv3034]

Originally posted by paulwhannel
the democrats would have no problem taking saddam out, for violations of UN resolutions and human rights violations, but THAT'S NOT WHY WE WENT IN TO IRAQ. Bush LIED. WMDs? no. diversion from our inability to find osama? yes.

paul

Paul, you keep taking the words right out of my mouth!;) Saddam did deserve to be taken out of power, but not because he "caused 9/11" as the majority of our country seems to believe (or want to believe, to put a face on the enemy).

[etoiles]

Originally posted by abdul
dont you think he looks a bit like santa a bit (apart from the fact he is arab and is thin.....but do you still see the resemb :D )

I thought he looked a bit like Karl Marx... I still expect to get my presents at Xmas.

[tazo]

Originally posted by paulwhannel
yeah, it's great that they caught him, and it'll be a healing experience for the world that he will be tried for his crimes, but um... you guys do remember that he has nothing to do with the war on terror, right? he didn't order the planes to fly into our buildings... osama did. where is osama? why have we forgotten about him? will we continue to forget? will they try to convince us that Bush has accomplished his goals here?

bait-and-switch.

like i said, great that they caught the bastard. but this is not our objective in the WOT. America is not safer.

paul

I agree. I think the objective with capturing saddaam, was to eliminate the risk of his going kurd on the US ya know?

[zimv20]

i'll be interested to see if there were, in fact, a sizable number of iraqis who were still too scared of hussein to be friendly towards the US troops.

anyone want to make any bold predictions on what will happen to the number of insurgant attacks?

[Thanatoast]

Originally posted by Don't Hurt Me
To bad Clinton didnt get this guy when he had the chance.
Clinton was too busy defending himself from Republican attacks over blowjobs to spend the political capital to take out Saddam. Look to your own party leadership if you want to place blame.

[QCassidy352]

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
This is fantastic news, i was for George going in and getting this bastard child and they did it, im sorry it has taken over 400 of our servicemen lives to catch this killer dictator It has been the right thing to do no matter what all the democrats have been trying to Spin. Maybe this will shut up Howard Dean for a while. After all he had changed his tune and said he opposed the war. im sure he will have a new spin;) Anyways way to go American Troops! way to go George Bush!:D

this is current events. Please keep your political opinions to that forum. Thanks.

[wwworry]

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
To bad Clinton didnt get this guy when he had the chance. I think its just a matter of time and they will get him to unless he is being hidden in Pakistan. Anyways a Great day For Iraq, our military and George Bush.

That whole story is a myth. There was no credible offer for Ossama made to the US. Look it up.

[Juventuz]

Originally posted by QCassidy352
this is current events. Please keep your political opinions to that forum. Thanks.

Perhaps that should apply to more than just him.

[Backtothemac]

This could be potentially huge for Bush, and for the Iraqi people. Saddam will likely give up the info on the WMD's that we have desperately needed. In addition to that, the real financial, political, and meaninful reasons that the French, Germans, and Russians were opposed to the war. That is a huge factor.

I am very excited about what the future holds in Iraq now.

[Dont Hurt Me]

Originally posted by Thanatoast
Clinton was too busy defending himself from Republican attacks over blowjobs to spend the political capital to take out Saddam. Look to your own party leadership if you want to place blame. My own party???im Independent thank you. I dont follow blindly the Republican party nor the Democrats. In fact i think both parties suck. I would rather there where no parties perhaps then a lot more things would be accomplished. How many millions will these two spend to beat each other? how many lies from both sides? why not just vote for individuals with the best ideas. instead we get constant political dogma from both dogs. But Iam very happy with this news as should be all the world. Another murderous Killer dictator removed from power!

[QCassidy352]

Originally posted by Juventuz
Perhaps that should apply to more than just him.

absolutely. He just seems to be the most frequent (and first?) offender. But certainly, political views of *all* types should be kept to that forum.

[Sunrunner]

There WERE WMD in Iraq, and we ARE looking for UBL.... it's called M U L T I T A S K I N G. What, do you think a million man armed forces can only do one thing at a time? Geeez. Do you have any idea how hard it is to find somebody when they are hiding in places you cannot go without starting more wars? People complain we aren't trying hard enough to find people, then complain we aren't being diplomatic enough... pick one!

Saddam's Iraq was a terrorist safehaven, and he was in violation of 16 UN resolutions which specified use of force if he was not in compliance. We gave him 12 years to work things out diplomatically. I mean, the first gulf war only ended in a cease fire based on agreements he made. You people who disagree with Operation Iraqi Freedom should go to Iraq and say that... you would last about 10 seconds before an angry mob of people, (most of whom have relatives among the ~1 million people murdered by Saddam) hacked you to bits.

I'm glad we caught Saddam, it was a great stroke of luck. Many Iraqi's are sleeping easier tonight.

[huntsman]

My first thought was that this was great news, as the prospect of bringing this man to justice has improved. If it improves the situation on the ground in Iraq, that would be great as well, but remains to be seen.

Then I wondered what would happen next (after the hubbub has died down), and came up with two thoughts:

1. The US might offer some kind of a deal to Saddam in return for his testimony, real or contrived, on WMD programmes and an al-Qaida relationship. This would validate the casus belli.

2. In a fair and open court, Saddam's testimony could include his relationship with the Reagan administration, while his crimes were at their peak. This would be embarassing for the current administration.

The former suggests that he won't be necessarily be thrown to the lions, provided he plays along. The latter indicates there is no chance whatsoever of an international tribunal that is outside US control.

[etoiles]

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
Lets see Bin Laden is reponsible for what 3000 deaths? multiply that by over 100 times ( and that is a conservative estimate ) and you have the deaths Saddam is responsible. who is the bigger terrorist? How can you say getting rid of Saddam has little to do on the war on terror? take off those Democratic Spin glasses you are wearing and open your eyes.

(hope this isn't too political)

well, if you rate a terrorist by the number of deaths caused, then there are a few other countries that need to be'liberated'. And the international community and their embargo against Iraq would be pretty high on the list with hundreds of thousands of deaths caused by the lack of medication and basic health infrastructure.
Also, the 'interventions' of the coalition caused an estimated 4000-5000 civilian deaths in Afghanistan and 8000-10000 civilian deaths in Iraq. Does that make them bigger 'terrorists' than Al Qaeda ?

Probably not in our terms. It is really all about what the government (any party) thinks is good for the country, no one at that level is really looking for the good of mankind beyond our borders... it is always going to be a fight for survival, or at least for our way of life. The question is just how far will you go and how much are you prepared to give to keep a balance/not to step on other people.

That being said, I think it is absolutely fantastic that they caught Saddam. I am sure this will give hope to the Iraqi people, which they will need on their way to a peaceful and democratic country.

[Doctor Q]

Along with Saddam, they found $750,000 in U.S. $100 bills. I guess that was his spending money. It sure doesn't look like he was still in a leadership position, orchestrating resistance, as rumors had speculated.

[Sunrunner]

Originally posted by etoiles
(hope this isn't too political)

well, if you rate a terrorist by the number of deaths caused, then there are a few other countries that need to be'liberated'. And the international community and their embargo against Iraq would be pretty high on the list with hundreds of thousands of deaths caused by the lack of medication and basic health infrastructure.
Also, the 'interventions' of the coalition caused an estimated 4000-5000 civilian deaths in Afghanistan and 8000-10000 civilian deaths in Iraq. Does that make them bigger 'terrorists' than Al Qaeda ?

Probably not in our terms. It is really all about what the government (any party) thinks is good for the country, no one at that level is really looking for the good of mankind beyond our borders... it is always going to be a fight for survival, or at least for our way of life. The question is just how far will you go and how much are you prepared to give to keep a balance/not to step on other people.

That being said, I think it is absolutely fantastic that they caught Saddam. I am sure this will give hope to the Iraqi people, which they will need on their way to a peaceful and democratic country.


I need to mension a couple things... first, 8000-10000 civillian deaths caused by coalition forces in Iraqand 5000 in Afghanistan?!? That is absolute bull; what are you smoking? There is no country in history that has ever tried so hard to avoid hurting the innocent people. I would wager that there were not even that many enemy SOLDIERS killed in the war. Saddams boys also had a real habit of calling 1 soldiers death 10 civilian deaths, (or are you saying you think Baghdad Bob was honest and trustworthy). Also, the deaths caused bad living conditions in Saddams Iraq was not because of the sanctions, it was because Saddam and his cronies were hoarding all the money ment for food and medicine for themselves, (or do you forget the billions in dollars worth of cash we have rounded up at his 60+ multi-million dollar palaces in Iraq). I think you have your culprits all backwards; stop blaming the goodguys just because its easier for you politically.

[manitoubalck]

They finally have done what they set out to do over 10 years ago. Well done.

[etoiles]

Originally posted by Sunrunner
I need to mension a couple things... first, 8000-10000 civillian deaths caused by coalition forces in Iraqand 5000 in Afghanistan?!? That is absolute bull; what are you smoking? There is no country in history that has ever tried so hard to avoid hurting the innocent people. I would wager that there were not even that many enemy SOLDIERS killed in the war. Saddams boys also had a real habit of calling 1 soldiers death 10 civilian deaths, (or are you saying you think Baghdad Bob was honest and trustworthy). Also, the deaths caused bad living conditions in Saddams Iraq was not because of the sanctions, it was because Saddam and his cronies were hoarding all the money ment for food and medicine for themselves, (or do you forget the billions in dollars worth of cash we have rounded up at his 60+ multi-million dollar palaces in Iraq). I think you have your culprits all backwards; stop blaming the goodguys just because its easier for you politically.

Afghanistan (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1740538.stm)
with reference to a study by professor Marc Herold (http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mwherold/)

Iraq (http://www.iraqbodycount.net/editorial_aug0703.htm)
They also count civilian casualties resulting from the unrest after the 'liberation'.

I agree, I am sure that no country in history has ever tried so hard to avoid civilian deaths, that is why those numbers are 'pretty low' (for a war). But taken in absolute terms, it is still a lot of dead bodies...(and injured ones). More than Osama has killed.Does that surprise you ? Do you think a cruise missile hitting Baghdad is only going to kill the bad guys ? That cluster bombs are build for 'surgical strikes' ?

As for the living conditions, yes Saddam could have done much more for his people (I never said I liked the guy). I guess you can argue that without him there wouldn't have been sanctions in the first place and that hospitals could have gotten the supplies they needed (vaccines, medication etc.)...and that he could have given his money ($100 a head ?) to improve the standard of living of his people. But he didn't directly murder 1mil people (which actually happened in other parts of the world...).

Tell us more about the WMD.

[rainman::|:|]

Originally posted by Sunrunner
Saddam's Iraq was a terrorist safehaven, and he was in violation of 16 UN resolutions...

Israel, the country in violation of the most UN resolutions on earth, is currently violating 69 resolutions. Just wanted to point that out.

pnw

[Dont Hurt Me]

Does anyone care about the U.N? or should i say League of nations? any difference? If it was up to the U.N Saddam would still be murdering people today and the U.N would be turning a blind eye.

[Sunrunner]

Originally posted by paulwhannel
Israel, the country in violation of the most UN resolutions on earth, is currently violating 69 resolutions. Just wanted to point that out.


The UN is a useless organization that has been taken over by foolish people paralized by idiots crying diplomacy into inability to act. The organization is nothing more these days than a league of nations that spends all its time passing pointless political resolutions against countries like Israel while ignoring enforcement of important resolutions like those regarding Iraq. Heck, France even gives Hamas and PIJ direct and overt financial support, (not to mention SAMs and other hardware to Iraq right up to the war). Apparently it is going to take another World War to wake Western Europe up to reality.

I only mentioned the resolutions in the first place because many peacenik fools think that the US just went off and attacked the good and holy Iraq to pillage the country, enslave the women, and eat the children. Most of those blind people will never find a clue.

[skunk]

Originally posted by manitoubalck
They finally have done what they set out to do over 10 years ago. Well done.
Or you could say "They've finally undone what they did 20 years ago"

[Dont Hurt Me]

nice post sunrunner, in fairness the UN does some good in humantarian missions but other then that it has shown itself incapable of dealing with most things. Iam Glad as can be we have a strong President. Something that could never be said of Clinton.

[electric]

I love the beard, I think it is very becoming, the hair needs some work though. I wonder what the crew at queer eye for the straight guy would do for a make over.

I see a new reality show" queer eye for the caught guy", first saddam then bin laden.

[etoiles]

Originally posted by Sunrunner
Heck, France even gives Hamas and PIJ direct and overt financial support, (not to mention SAMs and other hardware to Iraq right up to the war). Apparently it is going to take another World War to wake Western Europe up to reality.

Do you really want to go there ? Do you want me to compile a list of armed groups ('resistance', not 'terrorists' of course) that got direct support from US agencies ? I guess that wasn't supporting terrorism, that was defending American interests...

Can you post your sources about France giving Hamas overt financial support ?


Most of those blind people will never find a clue.

Good thing YOU have it all figured out.

[QCassidy352]

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
well we have Elected a pro active President rather then a appeaser.

ah, and we're in political discussion now. Who would've guessed? :rolleyes:

don't hurt me:
first - if by "pro active" you mean "shoot first and ask questions later," than I agree. :rolleyes:

second - the person currently residing in the Oval Office was not elected. He lost the popular vote, and would have lost the electoral college except for his daddy's buddies on the Supreme Court.

Finally - you keep talking about how Bush is a "strong" president. How childish and simplistic of you to assume that a rush to violence is indicative of strength. Restraint and careful consideration in the face of an impulse to just lash out - now that would be strength.

[pseudobrit]

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
If it was up to the U.N Saddam would still be murdering people today and the U.N would be turning a blind eye.

Yeah, 'cause the UN couldn't do anything right.

Why, they couldn't even find the WMD in Iraq. It took a real man like Bush to take charge and show the world where they were, eh?

[Ugg]

Originally posted by zimv20
i'll be interested to see if there were, in fact, a sizable number of iraqis who were still too scared of hussein to be friendly towards the US troops.

anyone want to make any bold predictions on what will happen to the number of insurgant attacks?

That was my first thought as well. The flip side of that of course, is how many Iraqis are going to be extremely pissed off at the US for finally catching SH. I think most people will be happy to know that SH is out of business but a few are going to be extremely, POed.

I think the inurgency has been running on its own steam and is separate from SH's regime. There are a lot of rich Iraqis whose lives and flow of income were severely disrupted by the American occupation and I think that just like in the land of the Sauds, a lot of those rich Iraqis are going to be funding the anti-American crowd. My guess is that the attacks will increase and will focus a lot more on the "coalition of the billing" troops. They've driven out a lot of the aid agencies and severely tested Spain, Denmark and Italy. By weakening world wide support for gw's puppet regime, they will make it even more of a battle between the infidels and the chosen. For those who read Salam Pax' column in the Guardian, his latest (http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1103551,00.html) shows that anti-US sentiment runs very, very deep.

The lack of adequate border controls is one of the major problems facing the US right now and indicative of the extremely idiotic post war planning that went on in the Pentagon. SH may be gone but the anti-American rage runs very deep.

[Wardofsky]

Ah man, should have seen this coming, anyways now that we're in the political forum doesn't mean we can beat each other up.

Try and talk reasonably and have links to sources...

Now for the bit where I yell out a lot...

[Dont Hurt Me]

Why is it so hard to give George credit. was anyone else doing anything about Saddam before George was Elected president of the U.S? France/Germany/Russia were making deals with this killer even as we were about to go in. The U.N wasnt going to live up to its own resolution. look up electoral college Qcassidy352. I think you will find that George Bush won the election. Your vote and mine dont mean squat. its the electoral college that elects the president. Our forfathers did not intend this but its what we have. Like it or not he is our president and is trying to do his best. calling him a strong president is childish? i think your argument is less then childish,pehaps even infant. George has gotten rid of the most murderous tyrant in recent history! Iam not saying he is a saint, just look how screwed up our boarders are? he hasnt done crap about mexico and its illegals coming in our country and the Patriot act is anything but. But he has caught a man who has killed more then anyone in recent times. The wmds we know he had , heck he used it on his own people or have we forgot?

[amnesiac1984]

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
The wmds we know he had , heck he used it on his own people or have we forgot?

you mean the gassing of the kurds?

he didn't do it link (http://informationclearinghouse.info/article1148.htm) ;)

[Ugg]

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
the most murderous tyrant in recent history!
snip

a man who has killed more then anyone in recent times. The wmds we know he had , heck he used it on his own people or have we forgot?

It really depends upon how you define murder. I don't know how many people SH personally killed but I doubt that it is a small fraction of the total killed by his regime. His sadistic sons are probably responsible for most of the truly cruel actions.

If we define murder as the inaction of a government to provide its citizens with basic human rights protections then I'm sure that SH is fairly far down the list. Zimbabwe, Angola, Sudan, The Philippines, Indonesia, Pakistan, Argentina, China, Rwanda, and many others including even perhaps the US.

Is it the gore and the sadism that you equate with murder? If so, then sensationalism has overtaken your sense of humanity. Murder by negligence or greed on the part of government officials is no less horrifying or devastating it just isn't as sensationalist and attracts less attention.

Perhaps that's what you are trying to do, sensationalize SH. He is and even before his arrest, an old, tired, and very confused man. More a shredded paper tiger than someone who was truly as murderous as you claim. I find it very ironic that the media, gw and his cronies, and the rest of the world tried so hard to make SH into some demi-god of Hades when in fact he was but a bit player and not a very good one at that. Kim Il Jung is much more murderous and Suharto buried hundreds of thousands of his people in the jungles of Indonesia. We can't go after the DPRK because we know they have absolutely nothing to lose and will destroy a good part of the world before they give in. We kept Suharto in power because he was "useful" to the US despite his nepotic despotism.

The world is a better place without SH, the world rejoices to see that he is in custody and I think we all hope that true justice will be served at his trial. What is sad is that so many around the world focus on him not because of his supposed evilness but because he is an evildoer that controlled the second richest oil fields in the world. What is even sadder is that all the other tyrants around the world are being ignored and people are dying because somehow, SH, has been put on a pedestal. He is being worshipped by you and by gw and his cronies for his evilness. That is sad and I feel for all those around the world whose leaders aren't being brought to justice because SH has.

[Sunrunner]

Originally posted by amnesiac1984
you mean the gassing of the kurds?

he didn't do it link (http://informationclearinghouse.info/article1148.htm) ;)

OMG!!!!

Didn't do it?!?!?!?

I suppose you think the holocaust never happened as well, and we never landed on the moon.

Give me a break! Even France agrees that Saddam did it.

You do realize that that article you link to is total bull right? That guy publishes every anti-opinion to the U.S. stance that he can. He even thinks that the war in Iraq was a covertly Israeli campaign for water! OMG!

Here, take this letter:


Stephen C. Pelletiere writes that Iran, not Iraq, might have been responsible for the 1988 gassing of Kurdish civilians in Halabja.

Human Rights Watch researchers interviewed survivors from Halabja and reviewed 18 tons of Iraqi state documents to establish beyond doubt that the attack was carried out by Iraq.

Iraqi forces used mustard and nerve gases, as well as mass executions, to kill some 100,000 Kurds in the genocidal 1988 Anfal campaign. The commander, Gen. Ali Hassan al-Majid, said of the Kurds, in a taped speech obtained by Human Rights Watch: ''I will kill them all with chemical weapons! Who is going to say anything? The international community?''

The evidence is incontrovertible: Iraq is responsible for the crime of genocide, committed against its own Kurdish population. The gassing at Halabja was part of that crime.

KENNETH ROTH
Executive Director
Human Rights Watch
New York, Feb. 3, 2003



Freakin' conspiracy theories are for lemmings. Maybe you shouldnt believe all the idiodic drivel posted on the 'net. I feel very, very sorry for one such as you.

[Wardofsky]

Originally posted by Sunrunner
Maybe you shouldnt believe all the idiodic drivel posted on the 'net.

Can we believe you then?
Not being serious...

Does anyone know and further developments and the trial of Mr. Hussein?

[Dont Hurt Me]

Some of what you say Ugg is true, some isnt. lets take care of one Tyrant at a time. iam sure when all the truth comes out you will find Saddam was as bad as his sons. where do you think they got this from? If all we wanted was the oil we wouldnt be trying to rebuild the whole darn place with everyones help. Dont Let the Democratic Party think for you and remember this is a election year. The democratic party has shown itself to go out on a limb to counter everything George has said or tried to do even if it was good for America and has lost a lot of creditiblity for this in my book. very disappointed where this party is heading. The Crazy Korean is a nut and is as bad or worse then Saddam like you said. Again where is the U.N on the crazy Korean? another blind eye. I define murder as murder not some smoke and mirrors of inaction of govt towards basic human rights thank you. Im a little insulted by you insinuating i worship Saddam. choose your words a little more carefully please. oh and one more thing we do have basic human rights in the U.S.

[Code101]

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
Why is it so hard to give George credit. was anyone else doing anything about Saddam before George was Elected president of the U.S? France/Germany/Russia were making deals with this killer even as we were about to go in. The U.N wasnt going to live up to its own resolution. look up electoral college Qcassidy352. I think you will find that George Bush won the election. Your vote and mine dont mean squat. its the electoral college that elects the president. Our forfathers did not intend this but its what we have. Like it or not he is our president and is trying to do his best. calling him a strong president is childish? i think your argument is less then childish,pehaps even infant. George has gotten rid of the most murderous tyrant in recent history! Iam not saying he is a saint, just look how screwed up our boarders are? he hasnt done crap about mexico and its illegals coming in our country and the Patriot act is anything but. But he has caught a man who has killed more then anyone in recent times. The wmds we know he had , heck he used it on his own people or have we forgot?


I agree with Dont Hurt Me!

Way to go President Bush and toops! I hope the UN and France are happy they had no part in this good news. The thanks goes to the USA, UK and a few other good countries that stand up for something. The UN along with France and other appeasers, sit and talk about the grean earth and how they want to rule it. The UN is a Joke.

I love our Military and President. They have done a fine job. Keep up the good work. Lets get Osama and the other thugs now.

[Ugg]

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
Some of what you say Ugg is true, some isnt. lets take care of one Tyrant at a time. iam sure when all the truth comes out you will find Saddam was as bad as his sons. where do you think they got this from? If all we wanted was the oil we wouldnt be trying to rebuild the whole darn place with everyones help. Dont Let the Democratic Party think for you and remember this is a election year. The democratic party has shown itself to go out on a limb to counter everything George has said or tried to do even if it was good for America and has lost a lot of creditiblity for this in my book. very disappointed where this party is heading. The Crazy Korean is a nut and is as bad or worse then Saddam like you said. Again where is the U.N on the crazy Korean? another blind eye. I define murder as murder not some smoke and mirrors of inaction of govt towards basic human rights thank you. Im a little insulted by you insinuating i worship Saddam. choose your words a little more carefully please. oh and one more thing we do have basic human rights in the U.S.

Of course we're going to rebuild the country. The only other option is enslavement and even gw wouldn't envisage that as an option. But, the thing to remember, is that it is going to be built with US interests in mind, not primarily the interests of Iraqis, don't kid yourself that this is the largest US humanitarian effort since the Marshall Plan. Let's face it, even the Marshall Plan would NOT have happened had it not been for the Soviet Union. Humanitarianism is based on economic/political necessity not out of the goodness of our hearts. Period.

Dude, you get all POed when someone calls you gw's cheerleader so why do turn around and do the same thing, even though I never mentioned the Dem. party in my post. I'm not a party slave and would appreciate it if you would remember that.

Let's see, he got his big business friendly.......... fill in the blank with whatever you wish. Although there has been Democratic opposition, THERE HAS ALWAYS BEEN OPPOSITION, and this year it seems to be a lot less than normal. Of course the Senate has shut out the Dems from the majority of the big stuff.....


If you're so insulted then why do you harp so much about SH? He's bad but take your pick, there's a lot of baddies out there and some who really truly support terrorism, not just give rewards to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers.

SH is not the sine qua non of int'l terrorism, neither is bin Laden. It is so funny that these two guys got their start as minions to the US. When are we ever going to learn that when you start trying to tame wolves, they never lose their wildness and will bite you in the ass the first chance you get. We made them, we are responsible for them. Catching SH is nothing more than a very belated attempt to rectify the wrongs that the US has committed. He is evil because of the US not inspite of it.

It is time for those panty waists in DC, both dems and reps to stop playing at being soldiers just because their daddies, uncles, mommies, got them out of Vietnam. That is all Iraq is, gw avenging his daddy's honor and trying to atone for his shameful actions during Vietnam. Don't worship those who got to power by their daddy's coattails.

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by mactastic
Nice! One less A-hole running around loose in the world.:D

Hey Osama... Seen the news today?


There was no love lost between Bin Laden and Saddam. Contrary to the media Bin Laden and Al Quada hated him. If anything it was American invasion and occupation that forced them together.

This is good news. At least the Hussein family will not be around to take over again but realize that just because you remove one dictator doesn’t mean another won’t take his place. As long as the US is in Iraq and there is hatred for America in that region there will be someone there to play the game of manipulation. Hate is an interesting emotion. One that can be easily manipulated. I mean seriously would even 2% of the American public put their support behind a war in Iraq a couple years ago? Nope. It took the collective fear and hatred of 9/11 and Bush’s tagging of it as a necessary war on terror to make people rally around the cause. Fortunately the War on terror card Bush has been play for the last two years is starting to get a bit ragged and torn. People are finally questioning if these actions are really fruitful to a war on terror or if they are more intended to position the US in position of power in the Middle East.

Any government that Bush tries to setup over there is going to have a massive target painted on their collective backs and frankly anything US implemented will always be seen as a US puppet even if it isn’t true.

I can’t help wonder where are all those weapons of mass destruction that Bush went to war over. Never forget that fact. We may have done an about face, god knows Bush has, when it comes to the reason we went to war in Iraq but never forget the reason we went to war was supposedly to protect America. Yet even today zero weapons of mass destruction (I refuse to marginalize these devices by calling them WMDs.) Someone BSed us. For all the triumphs this day has brought with Saddam’s capture I still believe we were lied to about the reasons we went to war and I’m a firm believer that the ends DO NOT justify the means to get there. Personally I would consider such an act an impeachable offense but that’s just me.
But hey. If it makes people feel better this isn’t the first time we’ve been lied to by the presidency, not just this one, so we should be use to it by now right?

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by Ugg
Of course we're going to rebuild the country. The only other option is enslavement and even gw wouldn't envisage that as an option.


Nope the other option is to do a half *** job and just up and leave. Leaving a complete mess behind.
Sounds like another war the American public has all but forgotten about. Afghanistan is a freaking mess right now but you never see any more info on Afghan on the news anymore do you?

[pseudobrit]

Originally posted by Sunrunner
OMG!!!!

Didn't do it?!?!?!?

I suppose you think the holocaust never happened as well, and we never landed on the moon.

Give me a break! Even France agrees that Saddam did it.

Tell that to the United States itself. The CIA, and State Dept. and intelligence community never claimed that Saddam was responsible for the gassing. In fact, never did we claim a shell was used outside the field of battle. It was either an Iranian shell or a stray Iraqi shell.

Freakin' conspiracy theories are for lemmings. Maybe you shouldnt believe all the idiodic drivel posted on the 'net. I feel very, very sorry for one such as you.

Maybe you shouldn't believe the idiotic drivel fed to you from the White House.

Please try to tone down your attitude. You're coming across as hostile, dismissive and asinine.

[pseudobrit]

Originally posted by Code101
I agree with Dont Hurt Me!

Way to go President Bush and toops! I hope the UN and France are happy they had no part in this good news. The thanks goes to the USA, UK and a few other good countries that stand up for something. The UN along with France and other appeasers, sit and talk about the grean earth and how they want to rule it. The UN is a Joke.

I love our Military and President. They have done a fine job. Keep up the good work. Lets get Osama and the other thugs now.

Rah rah rah! Go team! USA number one!

[Ugg]

Originally posted by Code101
\The UN is a Joke.


Cut off someone's legs, then their arms, poke out an eye or two and voila! What is left but a shell that thinks and breathes but no longer has any control over its destiny. The US is responsible for the UN's rather sorry condition. Whether it be refusal to pay dues, refusing to censor Israel for its terrorizing the Palestinians, etc, etc.

The US treatment of the UN is a joke, just like the continual US support of men like Saddam, bin Laden, Suharto, etc, etc, etc.

[g5man]

I was awaken by a phone call this morning with the news. I did not see a picture of him until later in the day. It was shocking and pleasing to see him look like bumb.


Great news. I am very proud of our troops and our president.

[Juventuz]

Originally posted by Ugg
The US treatment of the UN is a joke, just like the continual US support of men like Saddam, bin Laden, Suharto, etc, etc, etc.

As much as people hate to admit it, the UN wouldn't survive without the US. (http://www.cunr.org/priorities/Arrears.htm)

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by g5man
I am very proud of our troops and our president.


Why are you proud of Bush? Is he putting his butt on the line for America? Is he taking risks every time he drives down a road for fear of a RPG attack. He gives the order for people to put their lives on the line nothing more. Too bad it can't be said that Bush has ever truly been in a real combat situation. (Then again neither could Clinton and he was a pure bred draft dodger.)

If you are going to be proud of Bush be proud for HIS accomplishments of which there are few if any.

[Code101]

Originally posted by Ugg
Cut off someone's legs, then their arms, poke out an eye or two and voila! What is left but a shell that thinks and breathes but no longer has any control over its destiny. The US is responsible for the UN's rather sorry condition. Whether it be refusal to pay dues, refusing to censor Israel for its terrorizing the Palestinians, etc, etc.

The US treatment of the UN is a joke, just like the continual US support of men like Saddam, bin Laden, Suharto, etc, etc, etc.

Ugg,

You are right! I think the best thing we could as the USA is just get out of the UN all together. I would like to tell them to get out of NY and set up in France.

If the USA were to pull out of the UN, it would last for about 1 year at best. It's because of us that the UN is still there. This is a mistake I hope we fix soon.

As for "Israel terrorizing the Palestinians", come on! What about all the wackos that strap bombs on and blow up kids. I would say that Palestinians are terrorizing Isreal just as much if not more. The thing is that these thugs can't be reasoned with. They don't want peace. If Isreal were to give everything up to the palestinians, they would still try to kill them. The only way to deal with them is to wipe the extream wackos out.

Don't tell me about the bad things Isreal does! The UN wouldn't lift one finger to protect Isreal. They have to protect themselfs so don't tell me about their bad ways without talking about the other side as well.

We just got rid of Saddam. Time to find more.

[etoiles]

Originally posted by Code101

If the USA were to pull out of the UN, it would last for about 1 year at best. It's because of us that the UN is still there. This is a mistake I hope we fix soon.


It is this 'we are the best, we don't need the rest of the world' attitude that is the biggest danger for the US right now. No nation (not even as powerful as the US) can control the world by force, and that is pretty much where we are headed.

Some people say: "we had to go into Iraq to liberate those people and make it a true democracy". Well, what about democratic values on an international level ? By ignoring the UN, the US pretty much shows how much they believe in democracy when it doesn't serve their purpose. Sometimes democracy just isn't efficient enough, I guess.

And of course, Iraq was an imminent threat to the national security and I just don't get it...all those pesky UN weapons inspectors were useless, too, they didn't even find anything. Oh wait ...:rolleyes:

[zimv20]

is the capture of hussein more of a political victory or a strategic one?

if the insurgent attacks don't decrease and no WMD are found, is it a strategic victory at all?

[Sayhey]

Originally posted by zimv20
is the capture of hussein more of a political victory or a strategic one?

if the insurgent attacks don't decrease and no WMD are found, is it a strategic victory at all?

zim,

I think we will see an increase of attacks in the short term. I very seriously doubt that Saddam had anything to do with the organizing and planning of attacks against the coalition forces, so from the military perspective it probably means very little immediately. That underground military organization is still out there. From the perspective of Iraqi politics it means a whole lot. The ability to try him for his crimes against the Iraqi people will be a major factor in the ability of the country to move forward. That will be even more so if it is followed by an amnesty for his soldiers who surrender. If they are truly fighting for Saddam this will be a body blow to their morale.

However, now we will see if the occupation has provoked a broader response than the old regimes forces. I think we will see shortly how Iraqis are looking at the US plan for the hand over of power and whether they believe it is real or a facade. My hope is that Bush realizes that unless he makes real the hand over of sovereignty the war will continue to grow and he will pay for it in November. Unfortunately, if he doesn't follow through it will be US and coalition soldiers along with Iraqis who pay the real price.

[mactastic]

Whatever happens that lying cheat Chalabi should not be allowed any position of importance in the new Iraqi government. Sure will be interesting to see how things go over the next few weeks and months. Already today there have been 2 more car bombs in Baghdad. Without stability on the streets there will be no major foreign investment to help spur a new Iraqi economy. And will we prop up a puppet government, or will we allow actual free elections even if the outcome is against our wishes?

[mactastic]

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
Does anyone care about the U.N? or should i say League of nations? any difference? If it was up to the U.N Saddam would still be murdering people today and the U.N would be turning a blind eye.

And if it was up to the republicans, Slobodan Milosovic would still be in power in Serbia, no? And he was a Bad Guy was he not?