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View Full Version : What To Do When She's "Taken" ?


bobber205
Jul 8, 2008, 05:56 PM
First of all, I would like to iterate that I do indeed know that posting something like this on the internet may not be the best way to handle this.
And it's not the only route I'm taking for advice. :) Just to make things clear.

I need some relationship advice from the MR community. I am posting this here because it's the only internet forum that I know of that would
a) care and b) be mature enough to give any advice worth taking. I've read threads with similar themes before and almost all of the responses were
well thought out and mature.

Here's my situation. I've been in college for two years now. I'll be a junior in the fall officially. I a pretty "sensitive" type of guy.
I liked a girl alot in high school, extremely strong feelings and were well mature into development and it wasn't just "puppy love" as some people call stuff like that. ;)
But I missed asking her out to the prom by a few hours and my last year and a half of high school (and still today) I regret not acting sooner. It's a mistake I don't ever want to make
again and that's what I'm writing this post.

So I've been in college for two years. And it while there are ALOT of very very attractive women of all shapes and sizes at my school, I haven't felt "attracted" to any of them.
Sure, physically i've been atrracted to many many of them. But not anything beyond strong lust. But I'm taking a summer class and there's this freshman girl that I sit in front of.
She is unbelievably perfect in every way. I've been trying to rationalize my feelings with every way I know how and I can't. I havent' felt this way about a girl since the one in high school.

Here's the bad part:
She's taken. (as you probably guess from my thread title). To make things worse, he lives in missouri...

What do I do?

I think I pretty much only have a few options as far as I can tell.
1) Don't do anything. She has a boyfriend and that's just all there is to it.
2) Be a arrogant a**hole and make your move(s) anyway.
3) Be "Friends" and wait for the opporutinity to strike.

And here's why I dont' feel I can do any of the three.
1) Well that sucks. I respect their relationship 100%, but do I disregard my own feelings?
2) Well obviously I can't choose this one now can I? ;)
3) this is the option I guess I *want* to take but.... with all the girls I've ever known very well, it's ALWAYS the option I take and you end up going nowhere fast. To make matters worse, I am the Software Eng Department for my classes almost all the time, and I seriously don't know how we would spend any time together if it wasnt' a relationship type thing. One plus is that she IS living in the dorms which may work to my advantage.

I guess I'm asking for advice here. She missed the day in class where we went to the library's lab and talked about researching. We got a large amount of handouts and we're meeting tomorrow at the library so I can give her the papers. But I've just found out it closed until 12:30 so if she doesn't find out, we may have an excuse to do something different.

I know that the vast majority of long distance relationships dont' work out. But that doesn't give me any right to insert myself between them. And this girl is so awesome, I can't imagine the pain I personally would feel if someone broke us up. I have strong moral issues about doing anything of the sort, but I feel so strongly about this girl it's making me reconsider them a little.

Thanks for reading whatever you did on this 'wall of text'. Any and all advice is greatly appreciated. :)

Gray-Wolf
Jul 8, 2008, 06:01 PM
If she is taken, everything else is mute point. If you have an ounce of honor, you won't pursue her. Best recommendation, move on. There may indeed be someone else around the corner.

dmr727
Jul 8, 2008, 06:03 PM
Yeah...move on. There'll be another along before you know it.

iShater
Jul 8, 2008, 06:07 PM
Your #1 option. If you truly care about someone, you don't interfere in their life for your own advantage. Heck, if you manage to do it, imagine what she will do if she finds out! :eek:

The best thing is to move on and focus on your life, and the right person will come along. Option #3 might be waiting for a long time and obsessing, which is not healthy for you.

iJohnHenry
Jul 8, 2008, 06:25 PM
If she is taken, everything else is mute point. If you have an ounce of honor, you won't pursue her. Best recommendation, move on. There may indeed be someone else around the corner.

Wrong.

You, or the OP, have no way of knowing the depth of the relationship that they are in.

I say you just go up to her, speak your peace, and then withdraw.

Faint heart never won fair maiden. (Not my quote ... damn it.)

BigPrince
Jul 8, 2008, 06:29 PM
Well I am of the belief you should not meddle with her current relationship...however I have been told loads of times to go for it...maybe I just have different values.

bobber205
Jul 8, 2008, 06:41 PM
I feel very strongly against doing anything to hurt their relationship but this is the first time I've ever even considered such a thing.

Gray-Wolf
Jul 8, 2008, 06:45 PM
iJohn,

I look at it from the point of view, that if I was in the other guys shoes, would I want anyone to see my girlfriend even if he had liked her in the past. And, as you noted, no one knows how she feels. I still say, let sleeping dogs lie.

iJohnHenry
Jul 8, 2008, 06:45 PM
You have no way of knowing if she is just "settling". Maybe he's a jock, or ultra smart, or whatever.

Until you speak to her, you are devoid of much-needed information.

iJohnHenry
Jul 8, 2008, 06:47 PM
iJohn,

I look at it from the point of view, that if I was in the other guys shoes, would I want anyone to see my girlfriend even if he had liked her in the past. And, as you noted, no one knows how she feels. I still say, let sleeping dogs lie.

Sorry, but that gets into the territory of "ownership".

Ugly, and unwelcome, in the 21st Century.

hayduke
Jul 8, 2008, 06:48 PM
What a bunch of friendly replies, now my turn.

Screw the other guy! Obviously you'll get nowhere being an a$$hole, so don't do that, but I think if you are able to be casually social with her and help her to understand what an *incredible* person you are then she may see the light. This is the "slow burn" approach. Not too much heat you just want to give her an opportunity to realize that there might be a better person out there for her...namely you!

I know many who have tried this same thing and most have ended up better friends at worst, along with a bit more heartache if things don't work out. BUT, I also know one guy who married the girl of his dreams having done the same.

In life you want no regrets and if you never actively pursue the situation you will have regrets.

bobber205
Jul 8, 2008, 06:54 PM
In life you want no regrets and if you never actively pursue the situation you will have regrets.

Good point. :)
The situation high school has filled me with nasty regret for years now...

iShater
Jul 8, 2008, 06:56 PM
Good point. :)
The situation high school has filled me with nasty regret for years now...

Let's hope you are never going to be in her BF's shoes then. Karma my friend. :rolleyes:

iJohnHenry
Jul 8, 2008, 06:58 PM
Good point. :)
The situation high school has filled me with nasty regret for years now...

Lust is nice, but the endorphin rush from true "love" (whatever the hell that is) transends that, times 10.

Be polite, diplomatic even, but get your message across.

You don't want a repeat of HS.

bobber205
Jul 8, 2008, 07:00 PM
Let's hope you are never going to be in her BF's shoes then. Karma my friend. :rolleyes:


That's what I'm afrain of...:(
You reap what you sow, but I still have to look out for myself.

MarkCollette
Jul 8, 2008, 08:46 PM
I don't understand the "dishonour" in going for her. It's not like he has mind control powers. If she really likes her boyfriend, then she won't bite. But if she's just coasting with the old boyfriend, and does really like the OP, then it may be better for everyone involved for him to go for it.

Melrose
Jul 8, 2008, 08:57 PM
Chivalry and good, old-fashioned etiquette are so remiss these days.

If she is already engaged or seriously involved with someone else, don't interfere.

bobber205
Jul 8, 2008, 09:05 PM
Chivalry and good, old-fashioned etiquette are so remiss these days.

If she is already engaged or seriously involved with someone else, don't interfere.

That's the thing, I won't know until I ask. She doesn't know a ton of people at my school yet (because it's summer) so I can't ask around (which is sort sneaky anyway).

I'm pretty sure she's not engaged. She's only 19. (I'm 20).

Oh btw. My mind control powers are almost complete. :cool:

BigPrince
Jul 8, 2008, 09:07 PM
Its only shady if you ask a million people who all say she is in a serious relationship hoping one of them will say she is not OR if you find out she is and still act on it.

Keebler
Jul 8, 2008, 09:15 PM
you only live once.

and you lost your chance in hs with someone else.

don't be a jerk about it, but be her friend, let her know you're interested and if it doesn't work out with her current BF, then there you are.

if i put myself in the other guy's shoes, I would think or hope that my relationship is strong enough that someone else talking to my girl isn't a big deal, or at least, it shouldn't be.

if it is, then there's a bigger issue.

but like i said, you only live once.

markcollette's post says it well.

good luck,
keebler

Hello.there
Jul 8, 2008, 09:32 PM
Sorry, but screw this "she's taken" nonsense, like she's a car he's just bought from the garage :rolleyes:

She's an adult, like every adult she has free will, there's no 'ownership' ************ here. They're not married, so..... She may very well adore the guy she's currently going out with, in which case you're out of luck; she may not - you just don't know.

Why not just try to get to know her a little better, be casual about it, no pressure. If things progress and you get close she has a decision to make; if they don't then it's not going to happen.

But don't give up....you just never know. Gently, gently try to make your feelings known, then accept whatever decision she makes. Best of luck.

CorvusCamenarum
Jul 8, 2008, 09:45 PM
Think of it this way - if she'd be so quick to dump her boyfriend for you, what's to say she won't do the same thing to you later on down the road?

Whatever you do, don't try to "be her friend" hoping that if something happens between her and her current guy she'll just fall magically into your arms. Barring a miracle, ladder jumping is rarely successful. She's already decided where on her Guy Hierarchy™ you rank, and if it's not above her current guy, there's not much you can do.

Finally, don't compromise your morals for anything. It sounds like you already know what course to take and you're just arguing with yourself over it.

Hello.there
Jul 8, 2008, 09:49 PM
Think of it this way - if she'd be so quick to dump her boyfriend for you, what's to say she won't do the same thing to you later on down the road?

And what's to say she won't? How many people find the love of their life first time around? :)

Mavimao
Jul 8, 2008, 09:50 PM
My 2 cents: I was that other guy about a month and a half ago. My girlfriend of 3 and a half years, after making plans to move to NY together after she graduated, who begged me to stay in Ohio to be close to her, who got upset whenever I brought up the idea of up splitting up, left me.

She hooked up with some a cappella, yoga and poetry loving douchebag the week before her graduation and decided she wasn't in love with me. They're now somewhere in NY, boning.

So yeah. My advice? Lay off.

dmr727
Jul 8, 2008, 09:54 PM
She hooked up with some a capella, yoga and poetry loving douchebag the week before her graduation and decided she wasn't in love with me. They're now somewhere in NY, boning.

Didn't Tim Robbins play that guy in High Fidelity? :)

Sorry, don't mean to make light of your crappy situation, but it's the first thing I thought of.

Mavimao
Jul 8, 2008, 10:01 PM
Didn't Tim Robbins play that guy in High Fidelity? :)

Sorry, don't mean to make light of your crappy situation, but it's the first thing I thought of.

HAHA Never thought of that. (runs to video store)

Iscariot
Jul 8, 2008, 11:30 PM
Honour.

There's no honour in sitting it out and not making any kind of move. I welcome any challengers to my position when I'm with someone. I am secure in my position, and if I'm not what's best for her, then she shouldn't be with me. Chivalry isn't protecting a woman from choice; that's actually kind of misogynistic. I trust who I'm with to be capable of making the right decision for herself, and if I'm not the right choice, then I respect her enough to let her make it.

There's no dishonour in telling her how you feel, or making a non-dirtbag move for her. Asking her out to, say, coffee or a movie. Do not lie, do not pressure, and don't be the 'other man' in a cheating situation. You don't know the particulars of the relationship, so while this is a long shot, it could be that she is (or they are) looking for someone else.

Dishonour would be plying her with alcohol, putting moves on her when she's intoxicated, taking advantage of a position of power, etc. If you do that, I will enroll in your school, and I will steal away any woman you've ever even looked at. It will be such a legendary bitchslap they'll make a movie of it. I will be played by Will Smith.

bobber205
Jul 8, 2008, 11:58 PM
Honour.

There's no honour in sitting it out and not making any kind of move. I welcome any challengers to my position when I'm with someone. I am secure in my position, and if I'm not what's best for her, then she shouldn't be with me. Chivalry isn't protecting a woman from choice; that's actually kind of misogynistic. I trust who I'm with to be capable of making the right decision for herself, and if I'm not the right choice, then I respect her enough to let her make it.

There's no dishonour in telling her how you feel, or making a non-dirtbag move for her. Asking her out to, say, coffee or a movie. Do not lie, do not pressure, and don't be the 'other man' in a cheating situation. You don't know the particulars of the relationship, so while this is a long shot, it could be that she is (or they are) looking for someone else.

Dishonour would be plying her with alcohol, putting moves on her when she's intoxicated, taking advantage of a position of power, etc. If you do that, I will enroll in your school, and I will steal away any woman you've ever even looked at. It will be such a legendary bitchslap they'll make a movie of it. I will be played by Will Smith.

That is the best post I've ever read. :D

I am not physically able to do anything like that. :)

I've decided to go for it. She's new to college and she's picked a doozy of a class to start with for the summer, so I'll offer her to help her with her term paper and research anyway I can. I'll she how she takes that and decide my next move from there.

Thanks guys for the (mostly) encouragement. :D

idyll
Jul 9, 2008, 12:06 AM
Keep looking.. bet you wouldn't like it if someone took yours

Iscariot
Jul 9, 2008, 12:11 AM
Keep looking.. bet you wouldn't like it if someone took yours

If someone "takes" yours then you have failed. Women don't get "taken", they make a choice, and they are totally free to do so. The only kind of "taken" is "advantage of", which is an entirely different matter.

dxpx
Jul 9, 2008, 12:13 AM
BUT, I also know one guy who married the girl of his dreams having done the same.

i can whole-heartedly vouch for the above statement.


my oldest brother met his wife while she was with someone else. like others have mentioned, it all comes down to the current state of the relationship. for my sister-in-law, she was complacent at best with the old boyfriend - but when my brother came around, she saw something that she knew felt right.

and the rest is history... [oh, the cliche]. :rolleyes:

so to the OP - dont let this moment pass you by. especially with summer increasing near an end. as mention before, you only live once. nothing to lose - but all to gain.


i hope it works out!

Badandy
Jul 9, 2008, 12:27 AM
I've decided to go for it. She's new to college and she's picked a doozy of a class to start with for the summer, so I'll offer her to help her with her term paper and research anyway I can. I'll she how she takes that and decide my next move from there.


You'll be watching Sex and the City reruns in her dorm room (getting no action) for the next six months. Do you want to be involved with her, or help her on her term papers? They are mutually exclusive, at least in the way you just described it as term papers then decision for next move.

Just be confident.


EDIT: Iscariot's opinions on this issue are right on in my book, but his last paragraph talking about what he'd do to you if you took advantage of her is mind bogglingly awesome.

Abstract
Jul 9, 2008, 12:28 AM
You reap what you sow, but I still have to look out for myself.

We really are the "me first" generation.

I agree with Melrose, as usual. You're allowed to do what you want, but just out of respect, I wouldn't. For example, if there was a girl I liked, and she was married, I would not "give it a try" anyway.

"Hi, is your marriage strong? If not, here's my number so you know where to find me. *wink*"

If you became friends, and she told you that her relationship with her boyfriend isn't so great (and she'd probably tell you that if she likes you and trusts you), then it's a different matter. If she went for YOU, that's different. If you became friends and she gives you a clue that she likes you, then it's different. And of course, if you didn't know she had a boyfriend, it's different.

I may trust my girlfriend, and I highly doubt she'd leave me. In fact, I think there's a better chance of me leaving her than the other way around ("She's the most trustworthy person in existence." [Harvard, 2007]), but I'd still feel weird if a guy was getting close to test how strong the walls are.

Gray-Wolf
Jul 9, 2008, 04:30 AM
Bobber205, be careful. It sound like you just wanted someone to agree with your positions, to make you feel better about it. There's a difference between that and advice.

Stardotboy
Jul 9, 2008, 04:57 AM
Chivalry and good, old-fashioned etiquette are so remiss these days.

Rubbish! If there's one thing that winds me up it's this rose-tinted view of the past where everyone was courteous, honourable and generally nice and cuddly.

If I were in your situation, I would go for it - nice guys finish last. She may well be perfectly happy in her current relationship, and at least by finding that out you'd have some closure so you can move on. And there's a chance that her current relationship isn't as peachy as you think it might be, in which case you could be onto a winner.

As a couple of others have said, if she chose you over her current boyfriend, that is not your fault unless you took advantage of her. It's insulting for anyone to insinuate that the girl in this situation is so feeble minded as to be incapable of making her own mind up about who she chooses to date.

davidjearly
Jul 9, 2008, 07:09 AM
I'm with the 'don't approach her' camp.

I think it is wrong to approach someone (male or female) who is already in a relationship. Even if you suspect the relationship they are in might not be in the best of states, it is disrespectful to both the person you are interested in, and their partner, to interfere.

As far as I am concerned, you should always do the right thing. This sometimes means that you have to act selflessly. It seems clear to me that you came here trying to make yourself feel better about what you want to do - that is to try and force your way into this girl's life.

I am 22, and have been with my girl now for 6 years, we are both very happy, and I trust her completely. However, if I knew of any man who was considering approaching her, knowing that she was already involved, I would destroy him.

If you approach this girl, despite that she is involved with someone else, I would call that a vile, disgusting act and you should be ashamed of yourself.

The bottom line is that if she has either, any inclination to leave her partner, or, any interest in you as a future partner, then you do not need to act in any way.

David

ucfgrad93
Jul 9, 2008, 07:30 AM
Sorry, but screw this "she's taken" nonsense, like she's a car he's just bought from the garage :rolleyes:

She's an adult, like every adult she has free will, there's no 'ownership' ************ here. They're not married, so..... She may very well adore the guy she's currently going out with, in which case you're out of luck; she may not - you just don't know.

Why not just try to get to know her a little better, be casual about it, no pressure. If things progress and you get close she has a decision to make; if they don't then it's not going to happen.

But don't give up....you just never know. Gently, gently try to make your feelings known, then accept whatever decision she makes. Best of luck.

This is great advice in my opinion. Ask her out for coffee and talk about your class and try and get to know her.

pilotError
Jul 9, 2008, 07:42 AM
Your in College, act on your lustful instincts and save love until after you finish school.

Seriously, most people don't really know what they want at your age. College is your free spirit time (as well as all the girls that go there). Don't miss that opportunity, there won't be another time in your life quite like it.

If you like her, tell her and stop with the childish "but I'm shy" crap. The worst she could say is no (or tell her boyfriend and get your ass beat), but you won't be regretting it 10 years down the line.

firestarter
Jul 9, 2008, 07:54 AM
You'll be watching Sex and the City reruns in her dorm room (getting no action) for the next six months. Do you want to be involved with her, or help her on her term papers? They are mutually exclusive, at least in the way you just described it as term papers then decision for next move.

Just be confident.


Friends != Lovers point FTW!

Why has noone said this before? A friend is different to a lover... become her friend and you're actually moving farther from your target. I've been there. You'll end up being the shoulder to cry on as she moves away from her existing BF, and you'll (correctly) feel like the worlds biggest chump when she hooks up with someone else.

Make a move, be nice about it. Tell her what you think / your intensions. She will or won't go for it - you have nothing to loose. Don't become her friend as a 'second best' or misguided 'long term play' as it will just make you unhappy.

Melrose
Jul 9, 2008, 08:16 AM
if I were in your situation, I would go for it - nice guys finish last.

There's few things that wind me up more than saying "Nice guys finish last" - it depends entirely on the quality of the woman being pursued.

And there is a such a thing as good manners and etiquette - and it's not all rose-coloured and ditzy. It's just very hard to find someone these days who puts his treatment of others before his own desires.

If you don't know whether she is engaged or not, ask her. Then take it from there. A good way to tell is if she's wearing a diamond on her left ring finger. If she is otherwise seriously involved with someone else, it's not really a case of god manners, or "No regrets" it's a case of "none of your business." - Not trying to sound rude, but thats the way it is.

Xfujinon
Jul 9, 2008, 08:35 AM
Barring the fact that the internets aren't the best place for this kind of advice dispensing...

My personal opinion is that unless a relationship is locked into some kind of legal arrangement (i.e. marriage or engagement, which is almost marriage), the tides can surely change. They often do. Several examples of my friends who had dated people for six, seven, even eight years demonstrate that there is nothing certain...unless you get married. People change, lives change, circumstances change, but most importantly, times change.

As a person who is now married to a woman who had another boyfriend at the time our relationship was getting started, I can say that the world of love and relationships is highly complicated, and being in a relationship does not somehow magically confer upon someone the capacity to be blind to the outside world, or to other people. About 1 in 3 marriages in the US fail, and I would wager that some component of this failure is the fact that these people may be finding others that make them happier, more fulfilled, more excited, etc.

Bottom line: don't be a prick, and don't do anything illegal, but you only have yourself to blame if you don't even try. You can't hit a homer without stepping up to the plate, and I really hate to say it, but a$$holes always seem to finish first in this country, or at least often enough to generate a resonating anecdote.

Tangential rant: chivalry is holding doors open, being respectful, and cherishing what you have as a gift and not a possession. It does not involve being a raging phallushead for the purposes of sequestration. People seem to confuse this often.

Melrose
Jul 9, 2008, 08:47 AM
a$$holes always seem to finish first in this country,

I like that. Seriously... I'll use that sometime if I have the chance :)

Baron58
Jul 9, 2008, 08:53 AM
Let's hope you are never going to be in her BF's shoes then. Karma my friend. :rolleyes:

If she leaves him for you, she *will* leave you for the next guy.

Trust me.

:(

(also goes for getting involved with divorcees.... Leaving the first marriage may have been hard, leaving the next marriage/relationship is much easier because they know they can. You become disposable. I'm through pursuing damaged goods.)

Don't panic
Jul 9, 2008, 09:39 AM
If someone "takes" yours then you have failed. Women don't get "taken", they make a choice, and they are totally free to do so. The only kind of "taken" is "advantage of", which is an entirely different matter.

amen

If she leaves him for you, she *will* leave you for the next guy.

Trust me.

:(

what an utterly ridiculous statement.

the vast majority of people have multiple relationship in their lives, yet there are tons of perfectly stable relationship.
sorry to break it to you, but if your women keep leaving you, you might want to start search close to home for a reason

BigPrince
Jul 9, 2008, 02:37 PM
I would like to see a poll on this.

Baron58
Jul 9, 2008, 02:55 PM
if your women keep leaving you, you might want to start search close to home for a reason

Oh, bite me. :mad:

That's not what I said.

Xfujinon
Jul 9, 2008, 03:15 PM
I like that. Seriously... I'll use that sometime if I have the chance :)

Thanks, but really is isn't my saying verbatim. The saying actually comes from an upcoming book titled "A$$holes Finish First" by Tucker Max. If you haven't read any of his short stories, I recommend it.

I'm unsure if I really believe it; my statistics knowledge interferes with my conscience. I believe that jerks tend to get what they want, but hard work and honesty still weigh in.

I'd much prefer not to be an a$$hole myself, although the system tends to reward these behaviors (competition for grants, scholarships, advancement, promotions, recognition, etc.). Oh well.

Mousse
Jul 9, 2008, 04:25 PM
For of all the sad words of tongue and pen,
The saddest are these: "It might have been." -- John Whittier

The bitterest tears shed over graves are for words left unsaid and deeds left undone. -- Harriet Stowe

Get the point? Good. The worst that can happen is you get shot down...and beaten to a bloody pulp by a jealous boyfriend.;)

Just be tactful in going about it. Gauge her response before advancing more. Yeah, the worst that can happen is you don't get the girl. Yup, back to square one. If such is the case, then you should by the immortal words of a very wise Canadian, Red Green. "If you can be with the woman you love, love the woman you're with."

bobber205
Jul 9, 2008, 05:32 PM
Well today was the day. And man was I typical myself. Almost.

We agreed to meet at 12:00 at the library so I could give her some papers she missed from class.

I got there about 45 minutes early due to the bus being dumb (and to avoid being late). I sat outside the library and kept an eye out for her. After 10 minutes I was like "WTF. She must not be coming". Shortly after I saw someone go in the library.

It was open but just the lobby with chairs. Last year during the staff retreat the whole library was closed.
so I was nearly 15 minutes 'late'. I walked in, immediately spotted her with friends and surrounded by several other people. She was there the whole time studying.

I sat on the other side of the library for about 10 minutes being a complete wuss too nervous. ;) But I finally managed up the courage to walk across the lobby, make some small chichat, gave her the papers and told her I'd see her in class soon.

That was it...
Maybe next time.

Badandy
Jul 9, 2008, 05:41 PM
That was it...
Maybe next time.

You didn't handle this that badly at all. For the situation it was pretty good, especially gathering yourself and going over to her table.

But next time what? You'll help her on an essay? Talk with her, get to know her, and when you're having a good conversation, stop it and tell her you have to go see friends but to grab coffee tomorrow. Do something, but I'm afriad your "next time" will be where you try to become "friends" with her because of the nervousness of putting yourself out there.

bobber205
Jul 9, 2008, 05:48 PM
I had plans to say other things, like the essay deal, but she was busy working on homework and her other friends at the table. I don't want her to feel uncomfortable (like I myself was feeling). :)

Iscariot
Jul 9, 2008, 10:20 PM
There's few things that wind me up more than saying "Nice guys finish last" - it depends entirely on the quality of the woman being pursued.

And there is a such a thing as good manners and etiquette - and it's not all rose-coloured and ditzy. It's just very hard to find someone these days who puts his treatment of others before his own desires.

If you don't know whether she is engaged or not, ask her. Then take it from there. A good way to tell is if she's wearing a diamond on her left ring finger. If she is otherwise seriously involved with someone else, it's not really a case of god manners, or "No regrets" it's a case of "none of your business." - Not trying to sound rude, but thats the way it is.

I totally agree with you about that old addage.

There's middle ground here that most people aren't seeing. Advocating that you take a chance, let her know you're interested and giving her the adult respect of allowing her a decision and being an "a$$hole" are two entirely different matters. Taking it to either extreme is being disrespectful of the fact that she is a person and an adult, and neither a "prize" or "object".

Always consider how you would feel in a given situation. If a girl expressed interest in me in an appropriate manner, I wouldn't be apalled nor would I feel disrespected. I would politely let them know that I'm unavailable. Chances are pretty good that I would respect their courage in doing so, and I bet in the same situation, nearly all of us would feel the same way.

Chivalry is first and foremost treating someone with the appropriate respect. Which makes you a nice guy. And nice guys are awesome.

@OP -- don't go into this "helping her with her essays". That's you starting off from a dishonest position, because you're going to be hiding that you like her, and trying to get closer to her. Be a man, be straightforward, and take any answer as final. I've got Steve Buschemi standing by to play you. Do you want that?

Melrose
Jul 10, 2008, 08:00 AM
[words]

Well said mate. Kudos :)

xboxer75010
Jul 10, 2008, 08:24 AM
Lets hope she does not read MacRumors. :D

Wotan31
Jul 10, 2008, 08:44 AM
"He who hesitates, masturbates".

Words to live by, those. When it comes to women, you have to dive in and do it. When you see some amazingly hot chick walking around with a total douchebag of a guy, it's usually because he was the only one that had the balls to go talk to her - everyone else was just too intimidated.

As to this chick that sits in front of you, there's nothing wrong with a little harmless flirting. Chat her up a bit, you'll soon find out just how serious she is (or not) for Mr. Missouri.

Don't take the help with essay's route, that's lame. Start simple. If you two have never introduced yourselves, start one day by asking if she has a pen you can borrow. Wait until the end of the class, then grab her attention in the hallway immediately after leaving the room, hand her back the pen, thank her for letting you borrow it, and then introduce yourself. Watch her mannerisms, see if she's the flirty type and wants to chat a bit, or if she's so preoccupied or uninterested that she just walks off. Gotta start small!

mikeyPotg
Jul 10, 2008, 09:16 AM
If you're good friends, I'd say stay cool, but don't mess with the relationship.
If you dont' even really know her, let it be.
I've tried to never step on toes because I know what goes around comes around.

My personal advice in that situation, move on and just look to keep making yourself a better person (whether through hobbies, working out, doing the right thing, etc) and everything else will fall into place!

aloofman
Jul 10, 2008, 10:21 AM
The impression I get is that you really don't know what her situation is. You don't know if she's happy with her current relationship. You don't know if she's attracted to you. You don't know if you're right for her. You don't know if she's secretly a crazy person whose boyfriend wishes you'd steal her away. In my opinion, the worst of all dating situations is pining for someone and not knowing if there's something there. This is far worse than actually getting rejected because at least then you'd know not to worry about her anymore.

So it seems to me that the goal is to find out these things. And that means talking to her about more than a research paper. There's nothing wrong with flirting with someone who has a significant other. Flirting is is a playful way of showing interest in someone. As others pointed out, if she's happily dating another guy, she'll shoot you down fast. If she's been hoping you would make such a move (and almost every woman has secretly hoped for that at some point), then she'll be impressed and interested.

Here's the key thing, and this is the hard part: if she shows no romantic interest in you, you have to let it go. Don't delude yourself into thinking that you can just be friends with her and hope she eventually sees the light. Even in the microscopic chance that this happens, it could take years, during which time you'll drive yourself crazy and sabotage any chance of finding someone else to be happy with. You CAN just be friends with a woman you were infatuated with, but only if you genuinely jettison your romantic feelings for her. This is obviously much easier said than done.

And as someone else noted, you're at an age where dating and relationships are in a state of flux. It doesn't mean you to have to sow your wild oats, or be an a**hole, or avoid commitment, or anything like that. It does mean that it's unlikely that your next relationship will last a lifetime. It means that there's a decent chance that your next girlfriend will leave you for someone else, or you'll leave her. You may not plan it that way, but it happens all the time, and this is the time of your life when you stumble into such things and learn lessons the hard way. It's hard to step back and see the long view when you're in the middle of it, but someday you'll realize that these experiences prepared you for a great relationship that makes you really happy.

One last thing: acting shy gets you nowhere with women. They may think it's "cute" when a guy acts shy, but the odds of a woman making the move on that guy are a million to one. Now is the time of your life, when you're surrounded by attractive women your own age, to build some confidence, get comfortable with who you are, and recognize what you have to offer to women. You'll need to have that confidence for later in life when there aren't as many available women around.

PowerFullMac
Jul 10, 2008, 10:34 AM
I have only read the first post but I would say become friends and try to move on but if she breaks up with her boyfriend take your chance! Comfort her and cheer her up if you are upset when slowly move in... Worked for me, but dont make the same mistake I did and cheat on her, it really aint worth it! (Free advice there!)

bobber205
Jul 10, 2008, 04:21 PM
What's a good way to find out more about her current relationship? Through the grape vine? Seems like a pretty balsy question to ask outright.

bobber205
Jul 10, 2008, 04:22 PM
<snip>
You'll need to have that confidence for later in life when there aren't as many available women around.

It seems like there isn't many around now either. :D

Badandy
Jul 10, 2008, 04:34 PM
What's a good way to find out more about her current relationship? Through the grape vine? Seems like a pretty balsy question to ask outright.

You don't talk about. Pretend you never knew, at all. It's irrelevant to how you need to act and what you need to do. No essay crap either, you don't show interest in girls by helping them with homework. Talk, flirt, go to coffee.

aloofman
Jul 10, 2008, 05:57 PM
What's a good way to find out more about her current relationship? Through the grape vine? Seems like a pretty balsy question to ask outright.

Any reason for her to think you already know she has a boyfriend? If not, then just pretend you don't know. She will indicate if she's uncomfortable with your flirting, whatever her reason is.

Even if she knows you know, flirting doesn't mean you're blatantly asking her out on a date or back to your bedroom. It's about showing you like her and are attracted to her.



It seems like there isn't many around now either. :D

That makes me laugh. Maybe it seems like it to you now, but trust me, ten years from now when more than half the people you know and meet are married and/or have kids, you'll look back on college as the greatest dating pool you ever swam in.

bobber205
Jul 10, 2008, 07:18 PM
Any reason for her to think you already know she has a boyfriend? If not, then just pretend you don't know. She will indicate if she's uncomfortable with your flirting, whatever her reason is.

Even if she knows you know, flirting doesn't mean you're blatantly asking her out on a date or back to your bedroom. It's about showing you like her and are attracted to her.





That makes me laugh. Maybe it seems like it to you now, but trust me, ten years from now when more than half the people you know and meet are married and/or have kids, you'll look back on college as the greatest dating pool you ever swam in.

But it seems like that now. I'm not kidding. I have yet to met a girl that hasn't been dating someone already.

Flirting seems like a forbidden art. I may be doing it already but I have no idea if I am, and if I'm not, then I don't know what flirting is other than what I've seen on TV (unrealistic) or being an arrogant person.

iJohnHenry
Jul 10, 2008, 07:42 PM
TV????

Forget that fiction. Just be yourself.

blackstone
Jul 10, 2008, 08:30 PM
Flirting seems like a forbidden art. I may be doing it already but I have no idea if I am, and if I'm not, then I don't know what flirting is other than what I've seen on TV (unrealistic) or being an arrogant person.

Think of flirting as being like a little game of each of you figuring out the other's intentions, with each person suggesting their intentions but not giving enough to make it absolutely clear: first, you talk with her, smile, give some compliments, but leave it just slightly uncertain whether you're only being nice or whether you're actually trying to pursue her. If she's interested, she'll flirt back to try and figure you out -- and you flirt back again, showing your hand a little more but not tipping it entirely. And then she flirts back, and around and around until both of you are pretty certain the other's interested.

bobber205
Jul 10, 2008, 11:09 PM
Think of flirting as being like a little game of each of you figuring out the other's intentions, with each person suggesting their intentions but not giving enough to make it absolutely clear: first, you talk with her, smile, give some compliments, but leave it just slightly uncertain whether you're only being nice or whether you're actually trying to pursue her. If she's interested, she'll flirt back to try and figure you out -- and you flirt back again, showing your hand a little more but not tipping it entirely. And then she flirts back, and around and around until both of you are pretty certain the other's interested.

Well that sounds dumb... ;)

Badandy
Jul 11, 2008, 12:21 AM
Let's review:

-No essay crap. Seriously, I can't impress this upon you enough. It's dishonest to veil your intentions and just try to get close to her without being straight with yourself, and with her. Trying to become her friend, just because it's easier, is the wrong thing to do, and a million guys everywhere can tell you this.

-Flirt

-When you're talking, and getting into the conversation, just say you need to leave and set up a meet (aka a date) for the next day. Go to coffee or something.

Good luck, it's not a big deal, don't worry.

spencers
Jul 11, 2008, 12:33 AM
she is taken.
give up. now.

bobber205
Jul 11, 2008, 12:36 AM
Sure seems to be a big chasm of differences here.

It's either "GO FOR IT!" or "Give up."

:D

thechidz
Jul 11, 2008, 12:40 AM
don't be a wuss:p follow your heart and don't let another one get away. Maybe she is meant for you and this is the test... start off just becomein a friend. then when the other jerk screws up (inevitable) you will be there to pick p the pieces

sonicboom
Jul 11, 2008, 01:01 AM
Sure seems to be a big chasm of differences here.

It's either "GO FOR IT!" or "Give up."

:D

Yep. People have experienced things differently throughout their lifetime. So you're going to get very different perspectives and opinions on this subject.

There is no one answer fits all.

I'll share my opinion though. If you don't make a move you'll regret it for sure. If you do make a move, you may regret it but less so over time, OR you may strike gold.

Make a move! And stay out of the friend zone. Don't do the essay thing.

And DONT FLIRT - you're not the type that can pull it off.

You do have to make your intentions clear though, and you do that by asking her out on informal dates. The first should definitely be asking her out of a cup of coffee. It doesn't get any easier then that (not that it will be easy). As you drink that cup, get to know her and let her get to know you. As the "date" comes to close, you make it a point to ask her if she'd like to do this again sometime.

In my college days, I asked a girl for coffee... I later married her, and we now have a 5 year old son. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

A follow-up date might be billiards, or bowling. They are both classic, and social. Stay away from movies at first, since you can't talk, and it's somewhat formal.

I didn't address Mr Missouri, that's because I think he's irrelevant when it comes to making your initial move. If she's devoted to him, you'll know to back off. If shes not, you'll also know she open to new opportunities.

Good luck!

sushi
Jul 11, 2008, 01:12 AM
Yep. People have experienced things differently throughout their lifetime. So you're going to get very different perspectives and opinions on this subject.

There is no one answer fits all.
Wise words.

In my collage days, I asked a girl for coffee... I later married her, and we now have a 5 year old son. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
:)

To the OP, just be yourself and do what comes naturally. That said, sometimes you need to take a leap, or push yourself, to make a move.

As for being taken? Over the years I have discovered this. If someone is happy with who they are with, it won't matter who asks them, they will be faithful to their boyfriend/girlfriend, fiance, etc. And if you ask them, they will politely let you know. And the classy ones can do it while making you feel good.

However, for those who are in a relationship, but for whatever reason are ready for change, will respond positively to you given the opportunity and they are interested.

Relationships are a two way street. Neither person owns the other one. Both must choose to be with each other. Life is full of choices.

Iscariot
Jul 11, 2008, 01:30 AM
There is no one answer fits all.

Mine.

My answer fits all.

Badandy
Jul 11, 2008, 01:33 AM
Mine.

My answer fits all.

Only because you gave two of them in one post that covers the two possible scenarios. But since it's in the same post, it probably is still one answer...

themadchemist
Jul 11, 2008, 07:51 AM
As we speak, I'm listening to the Beatles' "Drive My Car," one of the most obnoxious love songs ever written. So I suggest being a complete bastard.

Actually, I tend to lean towards the folks who say you shouldn't go around trying to steal someone's girl (or, on the flipside, a girl shouldn't go try to steal someone's guy).

Melrose
Jul 11, 2008, 08:17 AM
As we speak, I'm listening to the Beatles' "Drive My Car," one of the most obnoxious love songs ever written. So I suggest being a complete bastard.

I'm listening to Def Leppard's "I Wanna Touch U"... think I should post too? :D