Where do you set the behavior for lid closing on a Powerbook?

[Hodapp]

When I close the lid of my Powerbook, I want it to remain on with the screen off, when I press the power button I want it to go to sleep. I know exactly how to do this on a PC, but can you do it with a Mac?

I'm running OS 10.2.8

[Felix_the_Mac]

You can't! :-)

Close the lid the machine goes to sleep.

If you want to wake it up without opening the lid then you have to plug in an external monitor and a USB device.

[NavyIntel007]

actually all you need is a USB mouse and keyboard. It'll wake up if you bump it and do not have a monitor.

[Hodapp]

Are you guys sure you can't close it without sleeping it? That seems rather silly.

[jxyama]

if you want the machine to go to sleep, then adjust the hot corners and energy saver settings in the syst. pref. you can put it to sleep whenever you want, just like pushing the power button.

as others wrote, you can wake up the PB from its sleep with the lid closed by clicking or moving your mouse/keyboard.

well, it may seem "silly" to you, coming from windows, but it's how things are with PB, so i guess you just have to get used to it...

[titaniumducky]

Why is this "silly"? Why would you close the lid if you didn't want it to go to sleep? Sleep uses only a tiny amount more power than having the computer off. It offers instant return to previous work. Also, repeatedly turning on and off any system is unnecessary wear and tear. Apple is trying to encourage sleeping over shutdown.

The only time you would want the screen closed and not have the computer off or asleep is when connecting to an external display under mirror mode, which Apple has taken care of.

When you hit the Power Button, you get options. You can use this to turn your computer off. This was done to give easy access to sleep w/o close and restart. Also it prevents accidental shutdowns.

Do you really need to have the computer do something other than sleep upon closing the lid? Is this incredibly useful feature really silly?

On a side note, you should really get Panther. It's awesome! I've never experienced any bugs with it.

[legion]

Originally posted by titaniumducky
Why is this "silly"? Why would you close the lid if you didn't want it to go to sleep? Sleep uses only a tiny amount more power than having the computer off. It offers instant return to previous work. Also, repeatedly turning on and off any system is unnecessary wear and tear. Apple is trying to encourage sleeping over shutdown.

The only time you would want the screen closed and not have the computer off or asleep is when connecting to an external display under mirror mode, which Apple has taken care of.

When you hit the Power Button, you get options. You can use this to turn your computer off. This was done to give easy access to sleep w/o close and restart. Also it prevents accidental shutdowns.

Do you really need to have the computer do something other than sleep upon closing the lid? Is this incredibly useful feature really silly?

On a side note, you should really get Panther. It's awesome! I've never experienced any bugs with it.

Well, it is silly since other OSs offer you the ability and options of running a laptop with the screen closed without having anything attached. You can setup many more options for what a powerbutton does or what happens when the screen closes (tailoring it to your needs.) This comes up enough on forums that obviously it is a concern. Here's an example where it can come in useful:

If you're at Starbucks working on something processor intensive or downloading something over wireless and want to go grab another coffee, wouldn't it be better just to shut the screen and carry it as you walk to the counter to grab your next cup? I wouldn't want to carry my laptop with the screen open (it's cumbersome) and I'm not going to leave my laptop at my table unprotected. I can come up with many scenarios where a closed laptop operation is useful without an external keyboard and screen are attached.

Just because your life doesn't demand more options, doesn't mean there aren't others who need such abilities on a day to day basis.

My guess is sooner or later Apple with incorporate these abilities in the OS. They're just a little slow to the gate on power management options.

BTW, this: "Also, repeatedly turning on and off any system is unnecessary wear and tear. " is bogus. The actual action of closing the lid is the most damaging since the inverter cable gets flexed each time.

[Powerbook G5]

Wouldn't closing the lid while your PowerBook does something processor intensive only cause it to overheat?

[uhlawboi80]

well its NOT silly because it prevents the idiots out there from doing to themselves what half the dell users at my school do (they technically "require" all the law students have dell laptios). Toss them in their bags while they are still trying to write/read something and crash their hard drives. If they automatically went to sleep that wouldnt happen.

i dont see any other reason youd want your powerbook running without a monitor attached to use it...even then with heat issues i wouldnt do that ofter or for long. Its a laptop :rolleyes:

[titaniumducky]

Well, if it really is important to you, there is one way...

It wouldn't destroy your laptop, but it probably isn't something you'd care enough to do. There is a magnet somewhere which triggers sleep when there is force on it (at least that is what I understand). If this is correct, you may be able to block the magnet somehow and stop this.

Also, there may be a hidden preference file. If you can find this, you may be able to change this behavior.

These are the only options which might work that I can think of.

[Hodapp]

My reasoning for wanting the powerbook to remain on when I close it is similar to the starbucks example from above. It's no big deal, it's just a minor inconvinience to have to finish downloads, reconnect to iChat, etc before closing the laptop. Out of habit from using windows laptops I close the screen of my powerbook all the time when I step away from it, just something I'll have to learn not to do :)

[Hodapp]

Originally posted by uhlawboi80
well its NOT silly because it prevents the idiots out there from doing to themselves what half the dell users at my school do (they technically "require" all the law students have dell laptios). Toss them in their bags while they are still trying to write/read something and crash their hard drives. If they automatically went to sleep that wouldnt happen.

i dont see any other reason youd want your powerbook running without a monitor attached to use it...even then with heat issues i wouldnt do that ofter or for long. Its a laptop :rolleyes:

I've been leaving laptops on with the screen closed for the past 8+ years I've owned laptops without any problems...

My main laptop, a Sager 5680, I haven't powered down since I recieved it a few months ago, which includes trips to and from work. What difference does it make if it's a laptop or a desktop? I see no reason other than the extra $2 worth of power a month it uses not to leave them on 24/7.

[Powerbook G5]

If it means that much to you, why not just not close the lid all the way? You could close it like 90-95% of the way so it is still easy to carry it with you to get your coffee or whatever while it is still on. Otherwise, just wake it up when you are done and continue. iChat and downloads should reconnect on their own without you having to do a single thing, so there shouldn't be much of an inconvenience from waking it up from sleep while it was in the middle of something.

[Hodapp]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
If it means that much to you, why not just not close the lid all the way? You could close it like 90-95% of the way so it is still easy to carry it with you to get your coffee or whatever while it is still on. Otherwise, just wake it up when you are done and continue. iChat and downloads should reconnect on their own without you having to do a single thing, so there shouldn't be much of an inconvenience from waking it up from sleep while it was in the middle of something.

That's what I'll do, I guess. I don't know, I'm just fairly suprised that a very basic windows power management feature which I've been taking for granted since Windows 95 doesn't exist in the Mac world... that's all.

[Powerbook G5]

I'm personally glad. Lid closed operation is dangerous for laptops. Moving a laptop around when it is on is risky for the HD and there is a great potential for overheating when the lid is closed. In 99.9% of the cases, no one would need it to be on when the lid is closed, so the fact that it goes to sleep and wakes up automatically whenever the lid is closed or opened is of great convenience and a subtle feature that I enjoy about my PowerBook.

[Hodapp]

You're glad that Apple didn't include features to control functions of your computer in OSX? :confused:

[Powerbook G5]

Having my PowerBook stay on when I close my lid would be a bug instead of a feature in my opinion. It is dangerous to move your laptop when it is on and it can and will overheat much easier.

[Hodapp]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
Having my PowerBook stay on when I close my lid would be a bug instead of a feature in my opinion. It is dangerous to move your laptop when it is on and it can and will overheat much easier.

I'm talking having a control panel like this:

http://discountporn.org/power.gif

Good for you if you like your laptop to sleep when you close the lid, I personally don't, and wish I could set up my powerbook like the above image. As long as I've owned laptops, I've never had one overheat or have a hard drive crash...

Where are you getting this information about it being dangerous? An Apple whitepaper on the matter, or are you just pulling stuff out of your ass?

[Powerbook G5]

Dude, there is no reason to be throwing along insults. It's common knowledge the danger of moving your computer when your HD is trying to access information. The spindle is in danger of hitting the platter, which is only a matter of a hair length from it, and one scratch could be fatal to it. I know that Windows has the feature, it's not like I haven't used Windows for years, but just because Windows has it doesn't mean that it's safe for you to do.

[crazzyeddie]

You dont need to be nasty about it, but all previous Apple Powerbooks have dissipated quite a bit of heat through the keyboards, and therefore the top of the machine. Even Apple recommends, if you would have taken the time to read the manual before flaming people, that you not leave the lid closed while using the computer. However, if you start the computer up or wake it from sleep with the lid closed, when you get to the desktop you can re-open the lid and the monitor will remain off while still allowing heat to dissipate thru the top of the machine.

[ewinemiller]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
I'm personally glad. Lid closed operation is dangerous for laptops. Moving a laptop around when it is on is risky for the HD and there is a great potential for overheating when the lid is closed. In 99.9% of the cases, no one would need it to be on when the lid is closed, so the fact that it goes to sleep and wakes up automatically whenever the lid is closed or opened is of great convenience and a subtle feature that I enjoy about my PowerBook.

It may be dangerous for the powerbooks, but works fine on most PC laptops. I do it all the time with my Dell. Often because of the carrying it to the next room kind of thing. Closing it most of the way is sort of pain because if I'm holding it more than delicately, it's going to close all the way anyways. Mostly I do it to keep the dust of the screen while it's plugged into the network, but I'm actually controlling it through remote desktop.

I've also done stuff like close the lid and let it keep rendering as I drive home. Closed it's not going to tip over, but keeps on chugging on the render. I've even stuffed it in the laptop bag and left it running. I just left the top of the bag unzipped so that the fans weren't blocked, no problems. It's a nice option to have. On my Dell, I can have it sleep, shutdown, or do nothing when I close the lid. I can see where I would miss that feature if I moved over to a powerbook.

[jxyama]

yeah, no need to get nasty...

with PB, i've found that it's not really an inconvenience to put the machine all the way to sleep. you can leave iChat up - it will reconnect automatically after it wakes up. and it takes about a second to wake up anyway, not much lost there.

i agree that a feature panel like the one in windows wouldn't be a bad idea. but the reality is, it's not currently available, so...

personally, i like the laptop to fall asleep whenever i close it. i wouldn't want to lose my battery power if i had forgotten about changing the close lid preference and the computer stays awake. so it's more of a philosophical difference between OS X and Windows. having had the feature in Windows but not in OS X, i can understand you may feel like something is missing... but i think the fact most PBs have far fewer (and/or less noisier) fans may have something to do with the fact the machine cannot operate with the lid closed on the road. if such is the case (i am not sure if it is...), i'd personally prefer a quiet laptop that can't process while closed than a loud one that can. that's just my opinion because i don't render on the go, etc.

lastly, many of us here uses windows on everyday basis. just because we don't agree with you on something about windows doesn't make it right for you to start talking to us as if we have no clue what we are talking about in terms of windows. quite the opposite is usually true.

[uhlawboi80]

ok, first...pull WHAT out of his ass? if you want to start being rude - do you know ANYTHING about hard drives? moving them or jolting them while they are writing to the disk can crash them.

and an easy way to end this thread...you cant do what you want on a powerbook, never seen anyone who had a hack to do it either. Dont think apples going to be making it so you can anytime soon either.

oh, and if you hit the power button you get a sleep option on the screen so its not like you have to go through some big process to get it to sleep.

[Xapplimatic]

Originally posted by io_burn
When I close the lid of my Powerbook, I want it to remain on with the screen off, when I press the power button I want it to go to sleep. I know exactly how to do this on a PC, but can you do it with a Mac?

I'm going to take a different tact than the other posters and tell you... the answer is YES..

Although it will require a hardware mod. I did it to my old iBook 466 g3.. and I didn't experience a melted display or a broken hard drive (but of course I wasn't stupid enough to actually move it or put it in a back pack while it was on like this)..

My reason was so that I could use the iBook as a DVD player with a big screen TV without the danger of leaving the computer screen up.. scratches, knocking it over, liquid spills from party going friends etc...

In the iBook, the mouse pad button was attached to the power management board for the battery. There was a simple "reed" switch which is a distinct glass tube with two very very close metal strips inside it. When the lid which has a magnet comes close to it, the magnetivity brings the two metals together closing the switch.. therefore use of a magnet will not fool this feature as one post suggested, but will instantly put the sleep mode in effect with the lid open!

The way to do this is to simply break or desolder and remove the switch. Alternatively, you could try to open the display case (not recommended) and remove the magnet..

That is guaranteed 100% to be the fix if you really want this functionality.. But I do think with the current g4s at 1GHz and higher that it's not a good idea, because they really do put out way to much heat. I've noticed even my 867 12" PBook G4 often is running in reduced speed mode just to bring the heat back in line. Course mine is first generation, perhaps the last refresh has better heat displacement?

Oh, the final piece of this is that pressing the power button will already result in a prompt asking you if you want it to sleep... so that end is already handled as well.. I think there is an option+button type press that will instantly sleep it as well..

[silver6x]

PB Melt Pic 1 (http://www.spymac.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10050)

PB Melt Pic 2 (http://www.spymac.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10051)

[joshuajestelle]

I'm not sure if I should even throw this out there... because using it just might fry some folks laptops, but those of you who want options, here's your options.

Thread talking about this same issue:
http://forums.macosxhints.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10385&highlight=laptop+sleep+screen

Program to 'solve' this 'problem':
http://macupdate.com/info.php/id/12211


Let it be said that I agree with everyone that there is a reason Apple's laptops go to sleep when you close them. So be careful.

Rock on,
Josh

[jevel]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
Dude, there is no reason to be throwing along insults. It's common knowledge the danger of moving your computer when your HD is trying to access information. The spindle is in danger of hitting the platter, which is only a matter of a hair length from it, and one scratch could be fatal to it. I know that Windows has the feature, it's not like I haven't used Windows for years, but just because Windows has it doesn't mean that it's safe for you to do.

Let's take a look at that last statement of yours, and turn it around:

Just beacause Apple doesn't have it, it doesn't mean that it's dangerous for you to do... :)

If you take a look at whitepapers on newer 2.5'' HDDs, you'll see that there's a operational G rating on them. That rates how much the drives will take under operational condition, and by the numbers, you could do quite a bit of jumping and walking without the HDD even giving a hickup. (Just look at the iPod...)

I think the real reason is thermal issues. The closed compartment you create between the screen and the keyboard will gather hot air, not giving the machine the appropriate cooling.

-KJ

[Powerbook G5]

I realize newer hard drives had more tolerance, but he seemed to have no idea that there is a reason why by general rule you don't want to jolt your HD around if you can help it. It isn't because "Apple says so" like was claimed, it is a fact of design. If you want to play catch with your $2000 laptop, then by all means, do so, but there is a point where even fail safe measures won't protect the disk from physical contact. And yes, the main reason I stick by is the heat reason. PowerBooks expel a good degree of their heat through their keyboards, and when you have the lid closed, you restrict that source of airflow.

[jevel]

Not to sound patronising or anything here, but please read what I told you to do. The "The HDD may break" argument is outdated! Taken from http://www.hgst.com/hdd/travel/tr7k60.htm:

An operational shock rating of up to 200Gs at (2ms)

200G is like dropping the disk from a ten story building. And that I'll agree is risky.

Now that's the numbers for the drive I've got in my IBM ThinkPad. The drives in newer PowerBooks can sustain an additional 50G(!).

So let's just say that the only reason for not moving a PB in operational mode with lid closed is heat dissipation?

-KJ

[legion]

Originally posted by silver6x
Now we know why the keyboards are now made of aluminum

They're not. The keyboards are aluminum coloured plastc.

[Powerbook G5]

From Seagate's tech bulletins concerned the durability of their mobile laptop drives:

"...their notebook computer 300,000 times throughout the life of the system,the higher specification is important because the head unloadsonto the ramp during idle modes.The increased shock tolerance provided by ramp load is also crucial.An 800-G nonoperatingshock is equivalent to dropping a typical notebook computer approximately 18 inches flat onto a concrete surface. Operating shock also increases by employing ramp load.Because the heads can unload onto the ramp even when the drive is still operating (standby mode),the possibility of head slap due to operating shock is reduced.Moreover,the actuator arm of a notebook drive is much shorter,which enables the operating shock of the notebook drive to be maximized.Because form-factor allows the actuator arm to be shorter,it is stiffer and more stable.The added stability,combined with the smaller form-factor of the discs,contributes to the drive’s operating shock tolerance.Momentus is able to easily withstand 225 Gs of operating shock, which is crucial to building rugged and reliable notebook computers.A 225-G operating shock is equivalent to dropping a typical notebook computer approximately three inches flat onto a concrete surface while it is running."

How is that comparable to dropping it 10 stories? Also, this is with the HD *not* accessing data. If it is actually writing to disk, it is significantly more vulnerable.

[ChrisH3677]

Originally posted by joshuajestelle
Let it be said that I agree with everyone that there is a reason Apple's laptops go to sleep when you close them. So be careful.

Absolutely. PBs defininitely run hot (which is why a G5 PB may be longer away than we'd rather)

These two quotes from my PB's user manual in the chapter "Care, Use and Safety Information"

Warning... Never place anything over the keyboard before closing the display. This can cause your computer to cycle on and off which may create excessive heat...

Keep the PowerBook's internal display open at a 90-degree or greater angle when your PowerBook is attached to an external display and running in dual display or video mirroring mode. This allows for proper air circulation over the keyboard and assists with heat dissipation.

Both these examples indicate that PBs run hot and that they should not be operated closed (or nearly closed) with the screen on.

Therefore, I'm sure it would jeopardize your warranty if you found a software way around "sleep when lid closed". (The hardware one would absolutely screw the warranty!)

But I definitely support your reasons for wanting it - plenty of times i've wanted to close the lid and leave something running (eg so kids wouldn't touch) such as Repair Permissions, or on the rare occasion I come across a large download.

As far as moving them whilst the HDD is running.... well.. there's some truth in it but HDDs have been more and more robust since the advent of laptops. As an oldie from the days when you actually had to park your HDD before shutting down, I still am reluctant to move a running laptop - but i do do it more and more, especially with my PB - eg taking a laptop for a walk to test wireless connectivity; moving between desks, sitting up in bed with it

Laptops by their very nature suffer a lot of movement while operating (eg resting on laps; on planes in turbulence)- yet it's been years since i've encountered damage to a HDD incurred by movement.

hope this helps

[jevel]

The seagate numbers are calculated with the disk in the laptop. The added mass from the laptop seriously adds to the forces working on the drive, and my "ten story example" was kinda exaggerated. (Have to admit that. ;) )

I won't start quarreling about G powers and how high you can drop it or stuff like that.

My point was: The drive will tolerate you moving your laptop about even if the drive reads or writes. If you decide to treat it like it would, that is your decision. At least you'll be 110% sure you don't break it. :)

-KJ

[Powerbook G5]

That logic seems to be flawed since obviously the laptop will have the HD in it. Besides, the force exerted equivalent to a 3 inch drop is about the same as one well placed jolt. The examples given about closing the lid when a large download is in process (which means the HD will be doing quite a bit of accessing) means that the owner intends on it to be in use. According to Hitachi's website, shock protection drops to about 20% just by being in operational state, which is again lower when it is actually writing to disk. Carrying it around, and a few bumps won't cause any problems for sure, but someone accidentally elbowing you just right, accidentally dropping it, or something along those lines can put it at serious risk for potential damage.

[jevel]

And it boils down to this:

You will choose to sleep your laptop when moving it, I won't. I even use it when on the move. In cars, trains, on boats and in planes. That's my choice, and based on my previous eight years as a laptop user, I expect that I'll do OK.

-KJ

[ChrisH3677]

They don't call em laptops for nothin!

Another thing io - if you do circumvent the "sleep when closed", based on what i quoted earlier, it would be a good practice to turn the brightness down til the screen is off. this would help reduce the heat from the screen a little.

[ChrisH3677]

Ok io_burn, I found this on MacUpdate.

http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/12211

USE IT AT YOUR OWN RISK! I in no way endorse it - and will not use it myself.

Note some of the comments by those who have.

And like i said before - at least turn your screen off first.

edit: go to the developer's website to download - it's name has been changed to Sleepless.

[jxyama]

Originally posted by jevel
200G is like dropping the disk from a ten story building. And that I'll agree is risky.

in the spirit of nitpicking... if you drop something from a building and let it fall, you get precisely 1 G. does not matter how high you drop it from.

yes, if you drop it from a ten story building, the force of impact will physically destroy the laptop - but HD acceleration tolerance won't come into play.

[silver6x]

Originally posted by legion
They're not. The keyboards are aluminum coloured plastc.

oh my bad... i don't have a powerbook, but from this (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25112) thread i was under the impression that it had an aluminum keyboard. checked around again and of course, you're right. ;)

[Powerbook G5]

I am glad, aluminum keys would mean I'd get zapped everytime I went to type something. Ever since visiting my parent's house in Iowa and being in a heated house, I've found out all the negatives to central heat, such as static buildup when you go to touch metal...such as aluminum cases...

[sford]

Originally posted by jxyama
in the spirit of nitpicking... if you drop something from a building and let it fall, you get precisely 1 G. does not matter how high you drop it fr......

Sorry I have to nitpick too, please check your facts when nitpicking... when the laptop impacts the ground the energy of that impact would be calculated using:

First calculate the speed at which the drive is falling then


(speed change)²
Deceleration = ---------------------------
(30)(Deceleration distance)



if you don't belive me goto: http://www.vcu.edu/cppweb/tstc/kinetic.html

[LethalWolfe]

As others have pointed out probably the main reason sleep is your only option when closing the lid is for cooling purposes (Apple prefers passive to active cooling when possible). You can get away w/closing the lid on PC laptops because they are generally bigger and rely more on active cooling (the fans). So a forced sleep upon closing is the trade off for having a smaller, quieter laptop.


Lethal

[AbeFroman]

Man this thread is filled with no-it-all attitudes. I haven't heard such moronic statements in ages. PowerBook G5 is a blatant mac apologist. Yikes, can you believe he said "Having my PowerBook stay on when I close my lid would be a bug instead of a feature." Well maybe you didn't know but Apple doesn't agree with you. "Lid-Closed Operation" was billed as a feature when Jaguar was released (although a control panel for it was suspiciously absent) and once again billed as a feature for the new G4 iBooks and Aluminum PowerBooks. There are plenty of times when this can be helpful like the starbucks example above.

Ok, please excuse my tone - I know we're all just trying to help here - but when someone asks for help don't just tell him "to just get used to it because that's the Apple way" (even if it's a former PC user). That's not only unhelpful but it's also misinformation.

[Powerbook G5]

I am not an Apple apologist by saying that lid closed operation is not supposed to be done with your PowerBook. If you were to read your PowerBook's user manual, it says in clear language *not* to close your lid, but to keep it open a bit to allow for cooling. Before attacking people, you need to take a breath and calm down and get your facts straight as well.

[jxyama]

Originally posted by sford
Sorry I have to nitpick too, please check your facts when nitpicking... when the laptop impacts the ground the energy of that impact would be calculated using:

First calculate the speed at which the drive is falling then


(speed change)²
Deceleration = ---------------------------
(30)(Deceleration distance)



if you don't belive me goto: http://www.vcu.edu/cppweb/tstc/kinetic.html

well, i believe you. :D

i guess i read his statement a little differently. i assumed that what he meant was the acceleration due to dropping from a building. not upon impacting the ground.

if it's the case of the former, it's always 1G. if it's the case of the latter, it's a lot of deceleration, though i don't feel like calculating to see if it's 200 G or not. (we would need to know how quickly it stops...)

anyway, you are right, i read his statement incorrectly. so apologies. i thought the way i did because if you drop from such height, the physical destruction of drive materail would be the biggest concern. i was thinking it's more relevant to talk about ways to subject the HD to high G forces without physically destroying the drive itself. afterall, who cares if the spindle damaged the plate or not if the entire drive is in bits anyway?

AbeFroman: could you give us a link to apple's site where closed lid operation is listed as a feature of the OS? last i remember, it's a spec in the PB where it's acceptable to put the laptop to sleep by closing the lid, then waking it up from external keyboard/mouse. nothing about the OS...

i personally didn't say "no, it's not possible, it's apple's way so get used to it," i think. all i meant to say is that it's not possible. but how is that different from someone who responds: "well, it's a feature in windows, how stupid is it that you can't do the same thing in a Mac!"

[patrick0brien]

Originally posted by titaniumducky
Why is this "silly"? Why would you close the lid if you didn't want it to go to sleep?

-titaniumducky

Well, clearly ewinemiller has a use for it and therefore the question is valid by default.

I can think of several reasons why I would want to close the lid but still use it:
-Under a monitor in a "Docked" configuration.
-File, Music, Print, or Webserver
-Render slave
-Disk burning server.

Strange how an innocuous question the thread started with got charged with such emotion.

[Powerbook G5]

I just added a voice of caution because I don't want anyone to damage their pricey PowerBook. I don't know how I'd react if I were to open the lid to a melted keyboard or something equally as nasty.

[rueyeet]

And yet another use for a closed, non-sleeping PowerBook:

Run the *$@%$!! 3 a.m. cron jobs without leaving your laptop open! :mad:

(that's aside of the uses I've personally wished for that others have already mentioned: server, and DVD player).

[Powerbook G5]

You could just open Terminal and type the cron commands in yourself, or if you are not comfortable with the CLI, download an app that will do it like Onyx or Cocktail. I believe that Cocktail even allows you to schedule what time you want it to run the cron scripts, in fact.

[parrothead]

Back when I was using OS 9 on my Tibook 500 it crashed a couple of times when I closed the lid, causing it to stay on and not go to sleep. One time I put it in my bag and the other time it was sitting on my desk. Both times when I came back I actually burned my hand when I touched it. Felt like touching a hot pan. While I can see the advantages of having a computer not sleep when closing the lid, I think of it this way. Most other laptops are made of plastic. Powerbooks are made of metal. The G4 is notorious for putting out a lot of heat. I think it is far better to leave out the option of
"no sleep when closed" than risk ruining something inside the computer or worse, burning people. Maybe when they can get a cooler running powerbook out, apple will include the feature. Until then, if you want to get up at starbucks and leave the computer running, go buy a kensington laptop lock and lock it to the table. ;)

[Powerbook G5]

My old PowerBook G3 actually froze when I put it to sleep a couple of times, also. Even though it wasn't metal, when I came back, it was extremely hot and took a good 40 minutes to cool back down. It seemed to happen whenever I closed the lid too soon after quiting AOL and I am just glad mine never incurred any damages because of it. This was with a relatively low power 400 MHz G3, so I'd hate to know what a 1.25 GHz G4 would do.

[pianojoe]

Once ago this thread was about running the machine with the lid closed.

The first "new generation" Apple notebooks (clamshell) had no fan and needed to breathe thru the keyboard, so they'll overheat if you run them with the lid closed. I think this is where that behaviour came from. What's more, if you close your notebook, and it keeps running because you accidently forgot to shut it down, it will drain the battery.

So what now? The warwalking people need an operational notebook in their backpack. They did it by patching the OS X kernel. So, it's possible, but not a recommended procedure.

Check out some wardriving /-chalking /-walking sites if you like.

[Xapplimatic]

Originally posted by silver6x
Now we know why the keyboards are now made of aluminum

They are *NOT* made out of aluminum.. They are plastic keys painted with metal flake paint to look aluminum like the case...

What's in that picture could NEVER happen with the 12" Aluminum PowerBook. Underneath the keyboard of the 12" is solid aluminum.. Heat does not vent through the keyboard anymore.. it vents out the back via fan primarily. Course his looks like a Rev A or B TiBook.. Mine is a rev A AlBook (12"). That's probably why they don't simply put the keyboard over the electronics anymore (that and the keyboard is a very poor spill-catcher!.. what wiped out my iBook: Sprite through the keyboard into the main board).. oh well, it gave me a reason to buy the 12" Al Book.. it's sprite-proofed!

[jayb2000]

If I could put my Windows laptop to sleep, and wake it up instantly (or around a second), then I would not miss the option to leave it running.
There are times when I might want it to keep running when I walk away (downloading something), but I could shut the lid 90% of the way.
There are problems with my Compaq when coming out of sleep, VPN connections don't reconnect and such.
So, if my laptop did not have those problems, I would probably be happy to have it go to sleep when I shut the lid.

Oh well, I guess I just need to get a PB :D

[acrobat]

what a rediculous thing to get so impassioned about. but... as long as the crap is flying... i'll add my two cents...

as one who recently switched from a Sony Vaio to a TiBook G4, this was the one feature that really kept pissing me off. i used to leave my Vaio on (but closed) through the night so that i could be left instant messages, run system checks, etc... while i was sleeping. the Starbucks example is also a good one. yes... all the downloads and iChats will autmoatically resume, but what if you don't want them to stop? when i'm in class at grad school (which has WiFi) and i'm IMing a friend and my professor walks by and i close my lid so he doesn't see what i'm doing, i don't want the conversation to be cut off. i don't want to be logged off at all. (the professor is old and not very smart.)

anyway, it was months of closing it without thinking and cutting people off in the middle of conversations before i got used to that damned feature. i say, make it an option. it's not a "bug" if it's an option. that way, we can all be happy!

(and, as many other laptop "switchers" have expressed the same complaint to me, perhaps Apple should look into making this a viable option in the future.)

[Powerbook G5]

You can just activate the reveal desktop mode in Exposé to hide your conversations when your prof walks by.

And when I said I would view it as a bug, it is because it is dangerous for PowerBooks to remain on when the lid is closed. Most PC laptops have fans that run all the time and various active cooling systems, whereas the PowerBook does not. If you try one of those hacks and leave your PowerBook running for about 15 minutes or so with the lid closed, I will guarantee you that you will either want to drop it like a hot potato or become worried that it will experience heat related damage. I realize it may be an annoyance when other laptops have that option, but the PowerBook isn't a Sony Vaio, it's a Macintosh PowerBook and it's just a different system. It's like buying a new car. Some cars, when the fuel gauge is on empty, you have a good 40 miles left, but on some cars when it is on empty, it really is empty. It isn't the fault of the car company that the gauge is different, it's just a different car. If it really bothers you, I understand your frustration, when I first switched, I was so frustrated with Apple and my PowerBook that I wanted to kick it and call up Apple to tell them why my old Compaq Presario laptop was better, but I eventually learned how and why things acted differently. If Apple allowed an option for the PowerBook to operate with the lid closed, would you then hold them responsible when there are large amounts of calls to AppleCare concerning their recently melted PowerBook?

[Counterfit]

What I don't understand is why people close the lid at night. Isn't that what the display sleep is for? As for the heat/cooling issues, the 15" AlBook main vent(s) are right at the hinge. Closing the lid without sleeping could possibly cause the hot air to collect underneath the screen, because its normal and natural route is blocked. An inside look (www.kodwarisan.com/ug/PowerBook/index15.html) at the 15" AlBook.

[Powerbook G5]

Yeah, it obstructs the rear slots a bit. Personally, I shut the screen to put it to sleep when I put it onto my desk at nights because my roommate and suitemates are the stereotypical college "Animal House" type and there are always tennis balls and **** flying around the room and I feel safer with the lid closed so the screen doesn't take a ball to the LCD and crack it. Not to mention that it just looks so slick when closed.

[Counterfit]

Heh, well, my roommates are much less rowdy. Mostly because they know if one of them breaks my PowerBook, they either buy me a new one, or give me their current laptop plus some $$$. Not bad considering one of my roommates has a 500 MHz TiBook. The other has a Vaio laptop though, and not one of the nicer new ones.

[Powerbook G5]

My roommate has an HP laptop that has problems booting up and crashing on sleep since he got it and my suitemates have a Dell laptop, a Gateway laptop, and a Compaq Presario desktop, so either way I'd be screwed if I took a deal like that. I just close my lid even at home out of habit. It's just one of those things, like putting the toilet lid down whenever I am finished. Maybe it's my slight OCD thing coming through. :p

[Counterfit]

I like to leave my screensaver (http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/10810) on for a few minutes while I go to sleep. The only way to make that better, is some sort of plugin so I could use WhiteCap or another iTunes visualizer as a screen saver. I wish I could code :(

[Powerbook G5]

I found an awesome screen saver on Version Tracker today called Euphoria, I recommend everyone try it out, I even set it as the Finder background a few times because it's so cool.

[Xapplimatic]

Originally posted by Counterfit
What I don't understand is why people close the lid at night. Isn't that what the display sleep is for? As for the heat/cooling issues, the 15" AlBook main vent(s) are right at the hinge. Closing the lid without sleeping could possibly cause the hot air to collect underneath the screen, because its normal and natural route is blocked. An inside look (www.kodwarisan.com/ug/PowerBook/index15.html) at the 15" AlBook.

I close my PowerBook whenever it's not in use to keep dust from settling on the keys and screen...

There would not be a hot air collection underneath the screen if it stayed on..
A. Because if it was on, the fan would still be on.
B. Because the fan vents out the back, not out the keyboard.. I don't believe a single model sold today vents through the keyboard.

[acrobat]

"If Apple allowed an option for the PowerBook to operate with the lid closed, would you then hold them responsible when there are large amounts of calls to AppleCare concerning their recently melted PowerBook?"

by saying "viable option," i meant that apple would have made it work as a part of a future design so that it wouldn't be a danger to the user or the machine.

[AbeFroman]

PowerBook G5, I see your point, but apparently Apple thinks the practice is OK now (or else they wouldn't be advertising it). Also, are you certain PowerBooks don't have fans? I was suprised to find a fan in my iBook once I opened it up - it's not very loud at all.

LID CLOSED OPERATION-
IT'S ON THE JAGUAR FEATURE LIST!

Well, since you asked for it I had to dig it up. It's not on Apple's web site anymore (no kidding) but it is on the WaybackMachine internet archive

here's the url:
http://web.archive.org/web/20020903114639/http://www.apple.com/macosx/jaguar/morefeatures.html

Am I the only one who thinks Apple was trying to con us just a little?

Also, the idea that your computer would self-destruct when you close the lid, while it might be true, we should expect better from manufacturers - we shouldn't have to worry about a meltdown like that.

[jxyama]

ok, i see it now...

i didn't claim that apple laptops won't work with the lid closed. i knew it's possible to operate the laptop via external keyboard/mouse. that is closed lid operation. it's a different definition than the windows, but it's still closed lid operation.

i don't know if the machine will break or not, as PBG5 is saying. it may or it may not. but since apple says closed lid operation, it shouldn't break.

[idea_hamster]

"No Sleep" (http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/20087&vid=108660)

I found this to work when I'm listening to iTunes on the train, but want to keep my PB in my bag. Lid closed, sitting still, playing tunes.

[Whoops -- somehow went from p.1 to p.3 and missed the links (both) to NoSleep. Anyway, it works for me and is easy to turn on and off.]

[Counterfit]

Originally posted by Xapplimatic
I close my PowerBook whenever it's not in use to keep dust from settling on the keys and screen...

There would not be a hot air collection underneath the screen if it stayed on..
A. Because if it was on, the fan would still be on.
B. Because the fan vents out the back, not out the keyboard.. I don't believe a single model sold today vents through the keyboard. The vent comes out directly in front of the hinge. When the lid is closed, the hinge blocks the path of the hot air causing it to take a different route, either out the sides of the display or collecting underneath it, neither of which are the normal route. Also, the fan only turns on at 154° for the power supply, and 147° for the CPU, that's pretty darn hot.

[jxyama]

Originally posted by Counterfit
The vent comes out directly in front of the hinge. When the lid is closed, the hinge blocks the path of the hot air causing it to take a different route, either out the sides of the display or collecting underneath it, neither of which are the normal route. Also, the fan only turns on at 154° for the power supply, and 147° for the CPU, that's pretty darn hot.

where did you get those numbers? i remember running the cpu temp. monitor once and when i used iMovie to render heavily, it turned on even without reaching that high of temperature...

[Powerbook G5]

I never said the PowerBook doesn't have a fan. In fact, the new rev B model aluminum PowerBooks have two fans. I also know that Apple allows you to use the lid closed with it being powered on, but they also warn in the instruction manual and in various tech documents against this practice due to potential risk of damage to the system.

[jxyama]

PBG5: could you point me to the docs you are talking about?

i'm curious how apple seems to be contradicting itself.

Apple PB Tecn page (http://www.apple.com/powerbook/specs.html)

in the PDF titled "Tech Overview" available on the right side of the page, on pg. 19, it describes the closed lid operation.

the description is so matter of fact that i'd not suspect it's causing any damage...

[Powerbook G5]

I tried looking up the owners manual for the aluminum 15" to post the section but it appears that it's not on Apple's support section yet. I don't have my manual with me since I'm home from school on break and I left all of my owners manuals in my dorm room. If anyone has theirs, look it up in the index or table of contents, there is a section where Apple cautions against lid closed operation of the PowerBook.

[AbeFroman]

It's also worth noting - since no one's mentioned it so far - that in firewire target disk mode you can close the lid and the computer will stay on. No hacks necessary!

:)


What I need is for my iBook to recognize when an external display or TV set is connected and not go to sleep when I close the lid. That's so I can watch DVD's or get stoned and watch the itunes visualizer (just kidding).
I know there was a time when OS X wouldn't put the computer to sleep but it's hard to remember back that far and I'm not going to reinstall every update between 10.0.3 and 10.2 to find out. At that point I think it was a bug because if I recall correctly the monitor would stay lit (unless you put the brightness all the way down manually). Still, it gets me mad that Apple took this ability away as soon as they started advertising it. :confused:

[Counterfit]

Originally posted by AbeFroman
It's also worth noting - since no one's mentioned it so far - that in firewire target disk mode you can close the lid and the computer will stay on. No hacks necessary! That's probably because you won't get anywhere near the amount of heat in target disk mode as you will in normal usage.

[AbeFroman]

Yea Counterfit that's true I bet. The hard drive only creates so much heat on its own and I doubt very much would come from the processor or the rest of the motherboard (if any) in firewire target disk mode. Cooling is the only real thing that should discourage someone from using lid-closed operation. Manufacturers really should be under more pressure to create cooler laptops. A decade from now laptops will either be cooler than they are now, or sealed in asbestos.

[Counterfit]

Sealing wouldn't work, but coating sure would! :D

[airborne]

I'm personally glad. Lid closed operation is dangerous for laptops. Moving a laptop around when it is on is risky for the HD and there is a great potential for overheating when the lid is closed. In 99.9% of the cases, no one would need it to be on when the lid is closed, so the fact that it goes to sleep and wakes up automatically whenever the lid is closed or opened is of great convenience and a subtle feature that I enjoy about my PowerBook.
This is why Apple recommends placing your iPod in suspend mode by briefly holding the Play/Pause button before changing its physical location. Please do NOT operate your iPod while you are in motion, it can be damaging to the hard drive.

Come again? I very highly doubt that carrying your laptop around while the hard drive is spinning is dangerous for it, unless you're dropping the thing on the floor, in which case the fact that it's on will have little effect on the results.

I have used Dell laptops for the past five years and I frequently close the lid while the machine is still running, usually to conserve battery power and physical space while using the machine to play mp3s through my stereo at home or in the car. I am extremely surprised that Apple has not yet provided this option, whether 50% of people think they need it or not.

This is where the Windows philosophy and Apple philosophy branch. Windows provides options for scenarios that only benefit 10% of their users, while Apple waits until the benefit will be appreciated by 90% of users. I feel sad and alone with my Mac in the 10%.