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MacRumors
Dec 16, 2003, 01:22 PM
eWeek provides (http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1414502,00.asp) a brief overview the current handheld leaders... including products Sony, PalmOne, RIM, and HP.

Each with its own strengths... but the author, Rob Enderle, notes that the market isn't locked up, and offers a tantalizing tidbit:

...and I've heard of an Apple prototype making the rounds in Silicon Valley. ... I'm hoping for a surprise next year.

Rumors of an Apple branded Handheld/PDA have been ongoing for years... despite ongoing denials (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/05/20030529030024.shtml) by Steve Jobs that such a product is in the works at Apple.

In past interviews, Jobs has stated that they felt PDAs would eventually evolve into next generation Cell Phones and that they did not feel they could add much value to current cell phones.

Recent unconfirmed whispers, however, have indicated that Apple has been actively developing at least two phone-based products in their labs: One being an Apple-based phone which Apple has been working on alongside with Nokia. The second being an next generation iPod with built-in phone features. One major feature is reportedly the ability to log into users' machines via a "thin client" to allow for a degree of location-independent workflow. When or if these devices will eventually make their way to market is unclear.

Also unclear is whether or not these rumored phone devices necessarily are related to the Apple prototype handheld that is rumored to be making the rounds in Silicon Valley.

yoman
Dec 16, 2003, 01:27 PM
Just release the handheld already! I'm getting impatient :)

macMaestro
Dec 16, 2003, 01:29 PM
Rob Enderle???

Bah. Piece of nonsense.

mj_1903
Dec 16, 2003, 01:30 PM
Rob Enderle has been very negative about Apple lately in several articles, I can't see him caring at all about an Apple smart phone.

MacsRgr8
Dec 16, 2003, 01:32 PM
Would be pretty outrageous.
Fun, yeah. But as Steve has denied it....

settledown
Dec 16, 2003, 01:35 PM
for a while, i have had to carry around my phone and my ipod, because no phones sync really well with address book and ical, and the ipod cant make calls.
so the ipod holds all the info, dates, phone numbers, addresses, notes, etc. and the phone connects me.
It is obvious that these two device need integrated.

But that doesnt mean the end of the ipod. The ipod can go more down the music, pictures, movies path...

And the new iPhone can be the phone of the future. Save a voice note on your phone, or if you have unread or saved voice mail. When you get to your mac, you plug it in and your voice mail is downloaded and voice note can be up and down loaded. It doesnt need ALL the PDA garbage that clutters up a PDA. But to have a phone that syncs (the apple way) your voice mail, phone numbers, etc.
Or plug your iPhone into your mac and you are instanly on the net (as long as you have a signal)

macMaestro
Dec 16, 2003, 01:36 PM
Out of curiosity, why on earth isn't this on page 2 where it deserves to be. I don't know of a single time Enderle has spoken anything but a babbling stream of nonsense.

settledown
Dec 16, 2003, 01:42 PM
no stylus

apple is best at making GUIs, they can figure an intuitive way to use menus and button mapping to get it done.

You dont need to write a note, just speak your note. when you get to your mac, it will transcribe it for you into a text note.

We dont need games calculators and banking statements and bla, bla, bla....

We need a really good phone, that syncs your iLife without error, that you never have to type a phone number into.

And it has to be either ATT or Verizon, say what you want but noone has the coverage that these two have.

sith33
Dec 16, 2003, 01:46 PM
Well, I just replaced my Siemens S55 with a Nokia 3650. Both sync great with Address Book / iCal over bluetooth using iSync. Really, the Nokia is just about the perfect phone. It'd just be nice if it was a little smaller. An Apple branded, revised version of this phone (or any of Nokia's series 60 phones) would be terrific. Not likely I know, as apple's not really into that kind of thing... any apple phone would be terrif.

PeteyKohut
Dec 16, 2003, 01:48 PM
Is anyone else as tired of these reports as I am????

jettredmont
Dec 16, 2003, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by Macrumors
eWeek provides (http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1414502,00.asp) a brief overview the current handheld leaders... including products Sony, PalmOne, RIM, and HP.

Each with its own strengths... but the author, Rob Enderle,

At which point I stopped reading.

Rob Enderle is a moron who thinks he knows more than he knows and certainly believes himself to be far more important than he actually is. Of all his recent spew about Apple there has not been a single pertinent fact or insightful comment.

This is not the kind of person that has inside information.

This is the kind of person that gets off making other people think he has inside information.

In other words, this is a Page 2+ story.

settledown
Dec 16, 2003, 01:55 PM
This is right about the time Arn pops in and brings this thread some fact and reality.

Before we REALLY get out of hand.

SiliconAddict
Dec 16, 2003, 01:57 PM
Someone drag out Steve's quote to end this now? K?

I think they will release a handheld/phones the day after Apple released the 2 button mouse. :p

suzerain
Dec 16, 2003, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by SiliconAddict
Someone drag out Steve's quote to end this now? K?


Which quote is that? The one about the "Year of the Laptop", which saw Apple have the most inportant desktop product release ever?

Or the quote about the "death of the CRT", a few months prior to Apple releasing the eMac?

I think listening to what Steve Jobs tells reporters is idiotic; he obviously filters what he says for the moment as it suits Apple's needs.

MOM
Dec 16, 2003, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by mj_1903
Rob Enderle has been very negative about Apple lately in several articles, I can't see him caring at all about an Apple smart phone.

I'm sorry, its gramatically incorrect to use the word "smart" and the name " Rob Enderle" in the same sentence.

Boy o' Boy is it ever open season on Apple rumors, next thing you know Apple will have an entry for the X-prize.

Still, i wish they had something up their sleeves, but I really doubt it.

ennerseed
Dec 16, 2003, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by PeteyKohut
Is anyone else as tired of these reports as I am????

YES I AM!

Apple needs to just release it so I stop drooling at the possibilities.

It seems the fad on here to deny or trounce any major progression of the iPod, or the possibility of Apple making anything new. You think Apple is just going to make just the software it does, i/proMacs, just keep giving the iPod a bigger (now smaller also) hard-drive, and an iSight (that now only seems to have one purpose)?

I remember when this site had a bunch of people talking about the future. Don't upset or mad if you once dreamed of an Apple product that never came to be. Just because people have talked about wild ideas that never happened, doesn't make them bad or stupid. You don't need to be the person to say I told you so, it doesn't matter.

Frobozz
Dec 16, 2003, 02:45 PM
I want a thin client. I want my bas-ass desktop to be sitting at home, and I want to be able to have a thin client easily access it from my couch, or Hong Kong.

The benefits are obvious:

1) My files are not on the thin client, or are only there themporarily. Hard to stead information this way.

2) It costs much less than a laptop.

3) It doesn't have the power requirements of a laptop.

4) It can be smaller than a laptop and more durable.

To be clear, this is NOT a PDA or cellphone. I don't think either of those will EVER see the light of day from Apple.

dongmin
Dec 16, 2003, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by ennerseed
YES I AM!

Apple needs to just release it so I stop drooling at the possibilities.

It seems the fad on here to deny or trounce any major progression of the iPod, or the possibility of Apple making anything new. You think Apple is just going to make just the software it does, i/proMacs, just keep giving the iPod a bigger (now smaller also) hard-drive, and an iSight (that now only seems to have one purpose)?

I remember when this site had a bunch of people talking about the future. Don't upset or mad if you once dreamed of an Apple product that never came to be. Just because people have talked about wild ideas that never happened, doesn't make them bad or stupid. You don't need to be the person to say I told you so, it doesn't matter. you know I'm a big fan of this site and I respect the work Arns does, but WHY do we keep seeing these handheld reports that have zero substance? I don't get it. These are simply random bits of rumors from unconfirmed and unreliable sources. WHY?

Dreadnought
Dec 16, 2003, 02:52 PM
Let's hope that the GUI comes from Apple and not Nokia. I have a nokia for 2 years know, but still can't figure some things out...BTW, I don't want a Nokia logo on it, only a big Apple logo!!!!!

arn
Dec 16, 2003, 02:54 PM
let's focus on the topic at hand...

there is some interesting information here... if you don't find it interesting, then you are free to move on to the next article. ;)

arn

Cuckoo
Dec 16, 2003, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by yoman
Just release the handheld already! I'm getting impatient :)

First, i misread... i red "Just release the handheld alrealy! I'm getting important :)"

Made me chuckle

Cuckoo

ITR 81
Dec 16, 2003, 03:12 PM
Remember the iPhone.
For the longest time www.iphone.com went to Apples website. Now I notice it goes to Vontage website now.

Maybe they have changed the name??

gregorypierce
Dec 16, 2003, 03:17 PM
This same tired rumor along with the iPad, x86 OSX, and Steve Jobs being the puppet of intelligent alien ants have been going around for years. Some of these things have been so baseless that they don't really even deserve to be called rumors - more like wishful thinking and rampant speculation.

"I saw Steve Jobs at a Lexus dealership and the new Lexus cards have Bluetooth installed so they MUST be making a new iDrive product!"

Nonsense. Any decent rumor must have *something* resembling evidence to support it.

mactastic
Dec 16, 2003, 03:22 PM
Hehe, the rumors are just going to get thicker as we get closer to MWSF! By the time we get there we'll probably see rumors of iColdFusion with a big apple logo on it.

Personally I think there is room for growth in the iPod area specifically to include WiFi connection and the ability to show video/still pictures on a TV/projector thing.

All I know is that Apples aniversary is coming around the time of MWSF, so something will happen. Whether it will be the stupendous thing SJ envisions like the day he rolled out the iPod, or something like the iSight, which is very cool, but useless to the average user remains to be seen. Something is up Job's sleeve though, guaranteed.

mdntcallr
Dec 16, 2003, 03:25 PM
apple should just buy Palmone.

It is very low priced and could go lower. nice products ie, treo 600

pkradd
Dec 16, 2003, 03:26 PM
An iPod/Phone combo would be most intriguing. However, don't believe anything Enderle publishes. He's a Microsoft shill and a hack writer who doesn't believe in accuracy.

arn
Dec 16, 2003, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by ITR 81
Remember the iPhone.
For the longest time www.iphone.com went to Apples website. Now I notice it goes to Vontage website now.

Maybe they have changed the name??

it was never "iphone.com", it was always iphone.org

arn

robbieduncan
Dec 16, 2003, 03:57 PM
I, for one, do not want a phone as big as an iPod. My t610 (and the t68i I had before it) are about the limit of size I am willing to accept. The reason I am willing to have a phone this large is the excellent sync with iSync. Before these phones I had a Nokia 8310 (and an 8210 before it). These phones were about spot on for size (although thinner would always be nicer). Until Apple (or anyone else) can make a combined device small enough to be usable every day they should simply not bother.

rueyeet
Dec 16, 2003, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by arn
let's focus on the topic at hand...

there is some interesting information here... if you don't find it interesting, then you are free to move on to the next article. ;)

arn

I completely disagree with the idea that a quote from Enderle is equivalent to information; this is the same guy who just made the Apple Death Knell Counter (again!) for saying that Apple was doomed because they didn't have a Tablet PC, Media Center PC, or smart phone (not to mention that the iPod is "terrible as a PDA"). And then he turns right around and says there's an Apple phone prototype making the rounds?

I'm more interested in where those other unconfirmed whispers are coming from. THAT might be information.

stompy
Dec 16, 2003, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by jettredmont
At which point I stopped reading.

Rob Enderle is a moron who thinks he knows more than he knows and certainly believes himself to be far more important than he actually is. Of all his recent spew about Apple there has not been a single pertinent fact or insightful comment.



Here's someone (http://appleturns.com/scene/?id=4338) who enjoys what Enderle has to say. :p

Jefe
Dec 16, 2003, 04:02 PM
Apple keeps a very, very tight lock on its new products.. I think that's pretty clear with how they have responded to those who post photographs of their products, etc.

I don't think ANY new apple product will ever be "making rounds" in Silicon Valley. When Apple is ready with the product, it will be announced to everyone outside of apple.. but not until then.

Unless someone stole said item and is passing it around.

J-Ray1000
Dec 16, 2003, 04:07 PM
Howdy, y'all.

With the iPod's current formfactor, the question seems less of Apple coming out with a new product, but simply integrating a PDA with phone and camera right on top of the current iPod.

The ubiquitous quest for most phone/PDA makers is to make them small enough for people to carry around. But people are already hauling their iPods everwhere. To add a little size to the currently tiny iPod wouldn't seem to render it useless to the masses.

I am no hardware designer, but to take a 3G iPod, cut out its LCD and "motherboard" and replace those with Apple's version of Palm harware, put on a full-length color LCD screen on the front with a phone speaker at top and microphone at the bottom seems all within the size limits of the old 2G and 1G iPods. It could even contain a small camera and still be small enough to be called an iPod.

It is the iPod, after all. Not the iMusic player.

What do you think???

P.S. I sickened, of course, that I post in response to an Enderle article, but, even though he is Satan's whore, he brings up some interesting ideas....this time.

kgibbs
Dec 16, 2003, 04:08 PM
When the iMac originally came out, Apple developed Blueberry, Lime, Orange and Charcoal prototypes of PDAs that were seen throughout the Apple campus for months. Actual working models.

This column means nothing. If they do release this product, it will be as a result of years and years and years of research. If they don't, the rumor mill loses again...

moosecat
Dec 16, 2003, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by dongmin
you know I'm a big fan of this site and I respect the work Arns does, but WHY do we keep seeing these handheld reports that have zero substance? I don't get it. These are simply random bits of rumors from unconfirmed and unreliable sources. WHY?

Sheesh. This is a RUMOR site. Here, we have a delicious rumor published by a reputable, mainstream tech source. Of course this is worth Page 1.

The only reasons offered against Page 1 status are: (1) it's an old and tired rumor; and (2) the guy who wrote the article is not trustworthy.

As to (1), maybe there's a reason this rumor won't die. Could it be true?

As to (2), who cares about the guy's track record. Any anti-Apple bias that people think they have seen would suggest that he would NOT pump Apple up by perpetuating a false rumor of an exciting new product. In any case, I don't trust Donald Rumsfeld; but I understand that when he speaks, it's news.

deepkid
Dec 16, 2003, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by sith33
Well, I just replaced my Siemens S55 with a Nokia 3650. Both sync great with Address Book / iCal over bluetooth using iSync...

I agree. I have the same phone and it does a lot well for what it is. (And that I got it for free on Amazon, by signing up with T Mobile).

It's cool to snap pics, bluetooth them over to the tibook; update either the phone or address book in os x and sync them.

Longey Nowze
Dec 16, 2003, 04:50 PM
I hate them! they are really bad! they have no features! the T68i is better then most nokia phones out there!
SonyEricsson phones are much better! the design the features everything! when did nokia have bluetooth? it didn't even work very well! and I never saw someone from Nokia speaking at an Apple event! but I remember someone from SE talking at a presentation! and every time Steve talks about iSync the phone they are using is a SE phone not a nokia!

and this is funny but if you notice the new SE T630 (http://www.sonyericsson.com/t630/) looks really good with an iBook and the P900 (http://www.sonyericsson.com/p900) will go great with the PB

http://www.sonyericsson.com/t630/connectivity/images/connectivity_352_202.jpg
http://www.sonyericsson.com/p900/images/camera_home_pic2.jpg

davej
Dec 16, 2003, 04:59 PM
THE ULTIMATE DEVICE:

Apple has a lot of technology that could be used for the "ultimate" device.

Take an iPod, sprinkle it with cell phone and Wi-Fi, add in .Mac and iTunes, integrate a better screeen and you have a device that can browse the iTunes music store and purchase songs directly into itself--anywhere!!

Now, add iSight and iChat AV, again with .Mac, and you have a handheld that can video conference that fits in your pocket. And takes pictures too--anywhere!!

:)

centauratlas
Dec 16, 2003, 05:00 PM
This is a really good thing because my Nokia 6600 already has > 512MB of RAM. Next year I can upgrade it to 1GB via an MMC card. In 3 or 4 years (at most) it will have 16 GB or more.

For many people 1 GB (or 5 GB or 10 GB) is enough for a good MP3 player. And you'll see that range in a 1 or 2. For the rest of us, a year or two later the phone will have enough storage to be a mid to high end iPod of today.

A device with phone, contact, camera, video, MP3 functions etc all in one (kind of like a better Nokia 6600) will subsume all of these independent devices.

A combo iPhone/iPod would be a killer. The iPod alone is just a transition device.

centauratlas
Dec 16, 2003, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by centauratlas
This is a really good thing because my Nokia 6600 already has > 512MB of RAM.

A ps to myself:

I replaced my 3650 with this phone. Both synch'd nicely with iCal, address book etc. Takes good pics (for this generation), movies, can play MP3s.

What it needs is: a little more storage, a better camera, better audio output. Apple *can* do all these things with a better interface than I have seen. Even better integration with OS X.

The iPod, to me, has never solely been an MP3 player. It has other functions (as you all know). Apple needs to add *PHONE* to this list because *that* is the device that 99.9% of people carry all the time. Even the name suggestions that: information pod (or something). It isn't iMP3 or iMusicPlayer.

Jobs must see that people are *much* more likely to carry their phone than their iPod. Or their Camera.

I have 2 iPods (10 and 30) plus a 5MP Olympus camera. I carry them when I know I am going to want them, but I always have my phone.

So, if I am somewhere and don't have my iPod, I play a few songs from my phone. Ditto for the camera. Sometimes I don't know when I will want to take a picture, so I only have my phone.

With all these features it is easily a high margin item for Apple - just look at the prices on the Nokia 6600, ngage etc.

J-Ray1000
Dec 16, 2003, 05:18 PM
I'm betting the big hurdle right now in getting this Holy Grail iPod (mp3, PDA, phone and camera) into existence isn't the technology, but making it integrate with .Mac.

Integrated with .Mac for real-time updating between home base and the iPod would be just about the greatest thing of all time. From Mail to iCal to iPhoto to iTunes even (isn't Apple in talks with AT&T about wireless broadband?) It would be the true digital hub.

ITR 81
Dec 16, 2003, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by arn
it was never "iphone.com", it was always iphone.org

arn

Thanks for the correction. I thought it looked funny.

But this still raises the question why have a domain name like that if your never going to use it???

ITR 81
Dec 16, 2003, 05:26 PM
I think I would total dump Cingular if Apple came out with phone with AT&T service, but I would rather have them make it compatible with couple of networks instead of just one.

centauratlas
Dec 16, 2003, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by ITR 81
I think I would total dump Cingular if Apple came out with phone with AT&T service, but I would rather have them make it compatible with couple of networks instead of just one.

One would think that as long as the phone and network support something like WAP 1.1 or WAP 2.0 then it would be easy (relatively speaking) to make such a device work over any such network, just as most Symbian OS phones (e.g. Nokia 3650, 6600 etc) will sync via Bluetooth with iSync.

Given that they have code for iSync and protocols in place for it, I don't think it would be a huge project to do updating between a phone and .Mac.

chmilar
Dec 16, 2003, 06:29 PM
Rob Enderle is the guy who predicted that if Apple hasn't switched to the x86 processor by the end of 2003, Apple will go bankrupt, and that iTunes on Windows would fail.

iChan
Dec 16, 2003, 06:32 PM
Originally posted by ITR 81
Remember the iPhone.
For the longest time www.iphone.com went to Apples website. Now I notice it goes to Vontage website now.

Maybe they have changed the name??

this is very itneresting, is the iPhone no longer as Apple TM?

iChan
Dec 16, 2003, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by arn
it was never "iphone.com", it was always iphone.org

arn

i wonder what kind of organisation could be related to a phone.

iChan
Dec 16, 2003, 06:41 PM
I for one would love to see an apple developed cellphone...

but it is hard to think of what they can add to it that would make it a killer.

jettredmont
Dec 16, 2003, 06:55 PM
Originally posted by J-Ray1000
Howdy, y'all.

With the iPod's current formfactor, the question seems less of Apple coming out with a new product, but simply integrating a PDA with phone and camera right on top of the current iPod.

The ubiquitous quest for most phone/PDA makers is to make them small enough for people to carry around. But people are already hauling their iPods everwhere. To add a little size to the currently tiny iPod wouldn't seem to render it useless to the masses.

I am no hardware designer, but to take a 3G iPod, cut out its LCD and "motherboard" and replace those with Apple's version of Palm harware, put on a full-length color LCD screen on the front with a phone speaker at top and microphone at the bottom seems all within the size limits of the old 2G and 1G iPods. It could even contain a small camera and still be small enough to be called an iPod.


So, if you take out all the iPod parts, and put in PDA parts, and change the case from an iPod case to a PDA case then ... voila! You have a PDA!

You would be stripping the majority of the iPod and iPod design to make it a PDA. I can see an iPod and PDA as companion products, but a PDA would not replace an iPod.

Personally, I find it incredibly uncomfortable and unnerving to be holding a touch-sensitive screen against the side of my cheek, especially one which is shaped roughly like a brick instead of a phone thus making either the earpiece be three inches away from my ear or the mouthpiece three inches away from my mouth ... granted, aspects of that describe far too many cell phones, so perhaps there is a market for it, but still ... I'd hope for better from Apple.

mj_1903
Dec 16, 2003, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by MOM
Boy o' Boy is it ever open season on Apple rumors, next thing you know Apple will have an entry for the X-prize.

They do. Seen burt rutans plane? Its obviously made by Apple design and plastics team. :)

~Shard~
Dec 16, 2003, 07:10 PM
Would this be the iWrite from the previous rumor? In any case, I'm not a big PDA fan to begin with, but if Apple can pull off something revolutionasry that no one has done (or has done well), I might become more interested! I could honestly care less either way, but if Apple can do it and be successful with a new product like this, then great for them!

fixyourthinking
Dec 16, 2003, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by kgibbs
When the iMac originally came out, Apple developed Blueberry, Lime, Orange and Charcoal prototypes of PDAs that were seen throughout the Apple campus for months. Actual working models.

This column means nothing. If they do release this product, it will be as a result of years and years and years of research. If they don't, the rumor mill loses again...


Nope sorry, those were gifts from Handspring - a lot of employees had Visors that matched the iMac line about two months before their introduction.

As for this rumor, I think Apple probably is working on a PDA. I have my bets that it's NOT with Nokia though, rather Sony Ericsson and Cingular, much in the same way Handspring teamed with Sprint.

As for people doubting it could be making the rounds, SEAL and Moby had iPods almost 6 months before the introduction. Genentech and Francis Ford Coppola had G4 laptops 3 months before release. CEOs of Apple developers like ATI, Nvidia, and Adobe often get prototypes a year in advance. We also have to remember the famous MacBidoulle pics of the Quicksilver that were out about 2 months before release.

TorbX
Dec 16, 2003, 08:01 PM
Apple + Nokia is a real piece of sheize, I can tell you that.

Nokia-cellphones has a lot of errors, wrong things, stuff going bad, etc. Apple don't have time for sheize like that.

centauratlas
Dec 16, 2003, 08:02 PM
Originally posted by J-Ray1000
I'm betting the big hurdle right now in getting this Holy Grail iPod (mp3, PDA, phone and camera) into existence isn't the technology, but making it integrate with .Mac.


I looked at the transactions between iSync and .Mac and it is using regular http and xml data. It does use SSL, but the 6600 (and 3650 etc) support that.

I think it would be reasonably easy to write an application that would use HTTP to log in, generate the xml and do the sync. Particularly since they have most of the algorithms and code done for iSync already.

TorbX
Dec 16, 2003, 08:15 PM
I'm not an Apple Expert, but I came to think of it:

Steve Jobs said that he can't see any use of PDA's. I agree with him.

But he DID saw the use of a harddisk MP3-player. The iPod. He got that one right.

Think of it. Maybe he can see the use of cell-phones. We use them, don't we? iPhone. I like the idea. Looks like the iPod, just that it folds out. Big screens. Camera.

New iPod with bluetooth that can transfer audio. Leave it in your bacpack, controle everythin with the iPhone.

Just a thougt...

J-Ray1000
Dec 16, 2003, 08:18 PM
Originally posted by centauratlas
I looked at the transactions between iSync and .Mac and it is using regular http and xml data. It does use SSL, but the 6600 (and 3650 etc) support that.

I think it would be reasonably easy to write an application that would use HTTP to log in, generate the xml and do the sync. Particularly since they have most of the algorithms and code done for iSync already.

Hey, you know best. If it's that easy, then the problem is probably integrating the whole enchilada.

To whoever it was saying why an iPod with a PDA isn't just a PDA. Well, why isn't a Sony memory stick player not an iPod? Same diff. I'm assuming here, of course, Apple isn't slapping a PDA, phone, and camera on a 40G HD.

Rather, it all works together in the usual Apple brilliance. Take a picture with your iPod -- it pops up in your iPhoto library on your iMac. Download a new song on the road -- a copy is sent back home. Ultimately, live updating between all facets of the iLife package: camera/iPhoto, music/iTunesMS, phone/Mail, and iCal and more.

Oh, and if I had the choice to have both my phone and my iPod in my pocket or just my 4G iPod, I'd definitely take just the 4G iPod, especially if it had a headphone plug or, better yet, bluetooth. Wouldn't that be the bomb? Apple brand Bluetooth headset linked back to the iPod. Listen to music, talk, record messages...Jesus, I want one!

ITR 81
Dec 16, 2003, 08:22 PM
I could see a slim down iPod using newer Toshiba HD's and with a release button on the side the iPod opens to become a phone with an internal # pad.

Could you imagine playing first 10 sec's of a MP3 song you love as your ring tone? No more paying for ring tones or dLing them. Just use your own MP3 lib.

ClimbingTheLog
Dec 16, 2003, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by Jefe
I don't think ANY new apple product will ever be "making rounds" in Silicon Valley. When Apple is ready with the product, it will be announced to everyone outside of apple.. but not until then.

The iPod was seen on bicycle handlebars and at restaurants in Cupertino in the months before the annoucement.

Of course, noone knew what it was (weren't the headphones a good enough clue?) and nobody belived the people reporting those rumors.

Jerry Spoon
Dec 16, 2003, 09:28 PM
Stop teasing me already....cruel cruel world :( :eek:

LightFantastik
Dec 16, 2003, 09:53 PM
Originally posted by Longey Nowze
I hate them! they are really bad! they have no features! the T68i is better then most nokia phones out there!
SonyEricsson phones are much better! the design the features everything! when did nokia have bluetooth? it didn't even work very well!

Are you crazy ?!?!
Sony Ericcsson phones are garbage ! I HATE my T616. I'd go back to a Nokia 8260 in a heartbeat. The only good thing about it is the bluetooth, and I hardly ever use it. The camera is useless, the screen is impossible to read in daylight, and the menu system is the absolute WORST I've ever experience on a cell phone. Microsoft could make a better phone OS than this !!! I can't go on enough about how much I hate the meuns/OS.

I swore after my horrible T28d, that I'd never buy another Ericsson product, but I was wooed by the fact they are working with Sony now, and the bluetooth. Well guess what ? Even with Sony, Ericsson still sucks ass. Despite their lack of widespread bluetooth support, Nokia still makes the most stylish, and user friendly, logical phones. Nokia's menu system/OS is nearly *perfect* - Nokia IS the Apple of cell phones !

I should have waited for the GSM Treo 600. The T616 is my worst purchasing mistake I've made in a long time.

I really hope this Apple/Nokia phone rumor is true. I'd be ecstatic ! Otherwise, I'm getting a Treo 600 ASAP.

alset
Dec 16, 2003, 10:16 PM
True Story:

I had a dream, the other day, that I travelled back in time via software that someone had developed for OS X. I zapped back using a 20" iMac (odd, because I prefer towers) to some point in the 80s. I was very conscious of wreaking the space-time continuum, and when the time came to zap back I worried that I had altered aspects of the present. When I returned to modern time, Apple had, that day, released a hybrid PDA/tablet. I knew, right away, that I had changed something in the past.

There is a great deal more to the dream, including time spent with Martin Scorcese and Willem Dafoe (in my teen bedroom, no less) as well as people telling me I was insane and had not traveled through time (I was really worried that I'd gone crazy!), but details on those aspects of the dream don't belong in this forum. Still, it'll be a great coincidence if Apple releases something of a similar design. The one in my dream was very slick.

Dan

ClimbingTheLog
Dec 16, 2003, 10:48 PM
Originally posted by alset
as well as people telling me I was insane

As if you're not going to get that here after that post. :)

Actually, I'm not one to talk - a few years ago I had a dream about an Apple device. It was round, a clamshell-design, a bit smaller in diameter than a CD (just right for the front pocket), had the glowy Apple on top like the iBook, and inside was a tiny keyboard and a 3" diagonal LCD screen for videoconferencing. There was a tiny Apple logo under the screen too (just painted).

It must have been cellular because I was using it in a park.

I'd still buy one today if I could.
What software do folks use when they're making fake Apple products to submit to rumor sites? Some kind of 3d modeling program? It might be fun to mock this one up sometime.

~Shard~
Dec 16, 2003, 11:05 PM
I once had a dream I was Batman.

Anyway, I don't know what this mystery device might be, or if it will be anything at all, but I can't wait to find out. Every day I'm looking more and more forward to MWSF - it's like Christmas II! :cool:

Sabenth
Dec 17, 2003, 12:34 AM
hand held devices that look / feel / work yep thats gota be apple all over the place

just do it already though i am getting bored with the same stuff over and over again

merges
Dec 17, 2003, 12:55 AM
Some of you folks have some strange dreams, I'll tell you what ;-)

No matter who's talking about this rumour, it's valid speculation. As others have pointed out, Apple has pulled some fast ones before, and it's certain to do the same in the future.

Besides, exactly what defines a PDA or a cellphone? Is the iPod a music player or a digital lifestyle device? What Steve Jobs, or anyone else, calls a "PDA" may strongly resemble some future device from Apple, but what Steve Jobs, or anyone else, may call that future device, is a matter of whiz-bang marketing.

BWhaler
Dec 17, 2003, 01:11 AM
This has got to be the dumbest article of all time.

Even if we ignore Steve saying Apple wasn't getting in the handheld business, there are these massive flaws:

1. Apple is one of the most secretive companies in the valley. Why would they be shopping a handheld around? To what gain?

2. Again, because Apple is so secretive, why would they share this with the sive that is Silicon Valley? Apple would know it would leak, so why would they want this to hit the wires before Steve got to announce it to mass fanfare?

3. Apple has some of the most draconian NDA's in the business; they are unbelievable. Why would a VC or someone in the valley risk pissing off Steve, getting sued, etc, to leak this to some schmuck reporter? It's not like this guy is Walt Mossberg.

The list goes on and on, but here's what I think happened. A columnist wants lots of hits at year end since it is bonus and review time, so the easiest way to generate traffic is to write about an Apple handheld.

Either way, the article is bogus. I'd bet any amount of money on it.

desdomg
Dec 17, 2003, 01:59 AM
Rob Enderle?

Sheeshh - Macrumors really scraping the bottom of the barrel for its rumours latelely.

tychay
Dec 17, 2003, 03:08 AM
Originally posted by Dreadnought
Let's hope that the GUI comes from Apple and not Nokia.

The crappy GUI is due to the difficulty of working with the Symbian OS. Really it's a wonder they've gotten as far as they have with it. But I guess this is a case where Microsoft's deserved reputation has preceded itself.

As for the Rob Enderle posts... I finally get to smile. Thanks.

k2k koos
Dec 17, 2003, 04:03 AM
I hope Steve was telling the truth, we do not need an Apple phone, unless they make one with the following specs:

GSM Triband for world wide use
50 memory positions for my phone number
Long battery life
Long slender hand set so the mic is near my mouth , not my cheekbone..

That's it, no texting, no picture sendign etc, i want the phone to make phonecalls, not to play games on, etc, that's all total ************

I guess I live in a dream world...

AndrewMT
Dec 17, 2003, 05:01 AM
I think it would be in Apple's best interests to enter the cell phone market with a phone similar to the T-mobile sidekick. The sidekick is currently the only phone to easily communicate through AIM, email, and voice and still have a reasonable price tag.

Unfortunately, Apple will have a lot of competition with these type of multi-use (not PDAs with voice communication) cell phones. Phones like Nokia's engage, T-mobile's sidekick, and possible Sony's PSP are really going to take off in 2004. Just who wouldn't want a playstation and a phone all-in-one?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/media/1233.jpg

the future
Dec 17, 2003, 06:45 AM
Originally posted by LightFantastik
Are you crazy ?!?! Sony Ericcsson phones are garbage ! I HATE my T616. I'd go back to a Nokia 8260 in a heartbeat. ... Despite their lack of widespread bluetooth support, Nokia still makes the most stylish, and user friendly, logical phones. Nokia's menu system/OS is nearly *perfect* - Nokia IS the Apple of cell phones !

All of this is rubbish IMO. The SE t610/616 is just fantastic, the only mobile phone I know with a look and feel almost like Apple products. To call Nokia phones "stylish" is wrong beyond words. Yes, all of them. Nokia is the Dell of mobile phones.

whooleytoo
Dec 17, 2003, 07:26 AM
Originally posted by adzoox
As for people doubting it could be making the rounds, SEAL and Moby had iPods almost 6 months before the introduction. Genentech and Francis Ford Coppola had G4 laptops 3 months before release. CEOs of Apple developers like ATI, Nvidia, and Adobe often get prototypes a year in advance.

I sincerely doubt it: a year before release most Apple products don't yet exist, or are just a loose pile of circuit boards in a lab in Cupertino.

And I doubt it would be the CEO's who would get them! :)

By the way, do you have a source for that Seal/Moby/Coppola info? Sounds very dubious to me.

seamus_waldron
Dec 17, 2003, 07:41 AM
First off, here is the URL :

http://www.apj.co.uk/technology/apple_sony_clie.htm

Interesting article about Sonys advertising using Apple Mac screen shots.

J-Ray1000
Dec 17, 2003, 07:55 AM
Wow, that Sony Clie is pretty amazing. That's what we've been talking about. It has a voice recorder, camera, airport and bluetooth, and an MP3 player.

As for the article, on the Sony website, there is no evidence for the OS9 overlap. It shows the Clie with Palm 5, which looks pretty damn good.

Here's hoping Apple bests this Clie.

Longey Nowze
Dec 17, 2003, 08:05 AM
Originally posted by seamus_waldron
First off, here is the URL :

http://www.apj.co.uk/technology/apple_sony_clie.htm

Interesting article about Sonys advertising using Apple Mac screen shots.

That's the UX-50! i have one! but i lost the stylus... so I'm ordering some though... nice machine...

Thanks
MaT

~Shard~
Dec 17, 2003, 09:31 AM
Originally posted by AndrewMT
Unfortunately, Apple will have a lot of competition with these type of multi-use (not PDAs with voice communication) cell phones. Phones like Nokia's engage, T-mobile's sidekick, and possible Sony's PSP are really going to take off in 2004. Just who wouldn't want a playstation and a phone all-in-one?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/media/1233.jpg

Hadn't heard of the PSP before - very cool! Potentially... ;)

D*I*S_Frontman
Dec 17, 2003, 10:48 AM
I used to have a Kyocera Smart Phone. Having a fully functional Palm with a phone was pretty convenient. The thing was pretty tubby looking, though. BTW, I have something of a beef with the current crop of ridiculously tiny cellphones. I would rather have a slightly larger unit that a) allows me to place the phone near both my mouth and my ear at the same time, b) has MUCH longer battery life (weeks, not days or hours) and c) durable enough to take some punishment and still work.

If Apple were to do this, I would like to see the following:

1) Beefy, overengineered form factor. Drop on the sidewalk accidentally and you should only have some cosmetic scratches to worry about.

2) Large internal HD in order to use it as an iPod, a portable file storage system, and even a remote HD for "take your Mac with you" computing possibilities. 10-60GB or so.

3) Large color screen big enough to comfortably read email/word processing, and even .pdf documents (scan & pan to view the whole page if necessary) on the road.

4) Ability for constant uplink to a remote server (a la Blackberry) in order to have constant real-time info for business purposes if desired. Perhaps a small stylus-sensitive area for legal on-the-spot contract signatures.

5) An "OSX-Lite" OS that works intuitively and flawlessly.

6) Camera built in--right above the view screen in order to facilitate iChat AV implementation remotely.

7) LONG battery life.

8) Apple's world class innovative design.

9) Still uses iPod Dock or some similar arrangement.

Thsi product would sell for about $500-600 or so, and there are LOTS of companies which would buy them up, in addition to those individuals who want to take the "iLfe" philosophy to its next logical step. When deciding what this thing should be able to do, we have to ask ourselves "what would we want a portable phone device to do that would make it a better option than merely lugging our laptop everywhere?" My answers would be:

- music playback
- document viewing (including mp4/flash)
- still photo snapshots and the ability to transmit them
- audio recording (meetings, lectures, etc.)
- realtime interaction w/remote server (orders, inventory, memos, etc.)
- portable video conferencing

Five years ago this would have been crazy list. Now it is totally doable. And no one could do it better than Apple (or market it better). If you think people have an unnatural fondness for their PowerMac or PBook, imagine how they'd love these things!

whooleytoo
Dec 17, 2003, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by AndrewMT
Just who wouldn't want a playstation and a phone all-in-one?

Anyone who wants a small phone, decent battery life or low price? :)

Les Kern
Dec 17, 2003, 11:45 AM
Originally posted by pkradd
He's a Microsoft shill and a hack writer who doesn't believe in accuracy.

Yep, the Sean Hannity of the technology world.
I always think though, of what the next logical innovation will be from Apple, and I am most always wrong. All the Apple/PDA talk is indeed tiring (along with MOST rumors), but if it comes to pass I'll sure order one. iSync and .Mac have changed my life for the better, and a phone with this technology built in will help me achieve nirvana. My Nokia and Palm T2 will go bye-bye.

atomicon
Dec 17, 2003, 12:45 PM
This PDA/phone/handheld rumor may be based on various prototypes that Apple has played around with, but that won't ever see the light of day. My prediction, and I've made it before, is that eventually (not right away or anything) Apple will release the first real, usable, video-phone. All the rumors may point to the fact that they've been working on it for years.

k2k koos
Dec 17, 2003, 03:54 PM
no offence guys, but I really wonder, does anybody use their phones just to make a phonecall nowadays, or are we only texting, listening to eachothers polyphonic ringtones, and exchanging pictures, just because we can?

Where are the days of being able to purchase a decent phone that works everywhere, does just that, and doesn't break the bank?

(Why do i need a color display??, and why are they all molded to be used by dwarfs..., a 6'2" guy like me can't use todays mobiles without wondering why the other side can't understand a word I'm saying in a busy street, just because my mouth is too far away from the mic...)

Apple design me a cool looking phone that is ergonomically correct, make it foldable so it has the same small formfactor as others when not in use, but please make it workable!! :confused:

J-Ray1000
Dec 17, 2003, 06:53 PM
Wow, this is bizarre. People want to return to the 80s -- massive phones with no features.

I personally use my phone for just that. But to integrate my iPod, that'd be great. And my blackberry, even better. And my voice recorder, the bestest. I don't need to play Space Invaders, but I'd like to integrate all these gadgets in my pocket into one uber device...that still fits in my pocket.

For those who want a big phone, look for further than good 'ol Motorola. And, uh, I got my phone for free, so I'm not seeing this hard-to-find cheap phone pandemic. Oh, and I'd rather people not ask if I have a banana in my pocket. Unless, of course...

~Shard~
Dec 17, 2003, 09:21 PM
Total integration!!! Bring it on!!! I want a cell phone/PDA/iPod/blackberry and whatever else makes sense - with a nice sleek Apple logo on it! Well, one can always dream.... :cool:

D*I*S_Frontman
Dec 18, 2003, 01:06 PM
"Wow, this is bizarre. People want to return to the 80s -- massive phones..."

HECK YEAH!!

I don't want a domino-sized handset and I don't need a portable gaming platform or a "Stairway to Heaven" ring tone. I want flawless reception, high data transfer rates for documents, real time contact with my business office server, and possibly the ability to remotely do video conferencing via iChat AV. If the thing is the size of a "princess" phone headset, who cares? I might be able to comfortably work the buttons (I'm 6'2" 225 lbs) and it might actually survive a spill or two on the pavement.

Who decided that a cellphone should have a form factor roughly equivalent to a book of matches?!

If Ives and the rest of the design geniuses at Apple really put their minds to this, they could create a genre-defining product and crush the market a la iPod. And pull from a new market of "swichers"--instead of switching from Dell/Gateway/Compaq to Apple, they would be switching from Moto/Samsung/Nokia/etc. to Apple. Oh, and being introduced in yet another way to iTunes and an Apple-designed user-friendly OS.

iMook
Dec 27, 2003, 04:21 PM
Excuse me, but just because you don't want those features, are too lazy to learn them, don't have tidbits of free time for them, etc. doesn't mean they are creations of Satan. Some of us use them. We love them. If you want something that can comfortably fit a large head, go get an NEC525, that's pretty big. Go find your own solution, and stop complaining about how the evolution of the cell phone doesn't fit your personal ideals.

heublein
Dec 28, 2003, 09:30 PM
Really, really good points. I don't think that form-factor is a big deal once you get to a certain point. My wife complains that she doesn't want a phone the size of mine (a Sony-Ericsson T610) because it's too hard to talk into. I think the key is being able to sync with your office e-mail/calendar/to-do list/contacts information in a reasonable form-factor. I think (and call me a heretic if you will, but I own and *love* two Macs) that Microsoft has finally figured this out with their new Mobile Windows platform that syncs really well with Exchange. I think that the key for Apple, should they choose to enter this market (which I very seriously doubt they will), will be pervasive information. The great thing about Apple has always been incredible design - I just wish I could get iSync for my PC that talks to Outlook! - and that will be the key to their success in this type of market if they choose to enter it.

Originally posted by D*I*S_Frontman
"Wow, this is bizarre. People want to return to the 80s -- massive phones..."

HECK YEAH!!

I don't want a domino-sized handset and I don't need a portable gaming platform or a "Stairway to Heaven" ring tone. I want flawless reception, high data transfer rates for documents, real time contact with my business office server, and possibly the ability to remotely do video conferencing via iChat AV. If the thing is the size of a "princess" phone headset, who cares? I might be able to comfortably work the buttons (I'm 6'2" 225 lbs) and it might actually survive a spill or two on the pavement.

Who decided that a cellphone should have a form factor roughly equivalent to a book of matches?!

If Ives and the rest of the design geniuses at Apple really put their minds to this, they could create a genre-defining product and crush the market a la iPod. And pull from a new market of "swichers"--instead of switching from Dell/Gateway/Compaq to Apple, they would be switching from Moto/Samsung/Nokia/etc. to Apple. Oh, and being introduced in yet another way to iTunes and an Apple-designed user-friendly OS.