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View Full Version : Where are my GPS apps?!




Socom
Jul 10, 2008, 12:51 PM
Alright, one of the best new features is the GPS, but where are the GPS apps? I would have thought someone would have done something. I know rumor is TomTom is going to release something, anyone know of any others or when on any of these?



Niiro13
Jul 10, 2008, 12:55 PM
You mean the apps that violate the SDK agreement? :p

I think only TomTom is the company that would be allowed to have real-time navigation?

Socom
Jul 10, 2008, 12:59 PM
You mean the apps that violate the SDK agreement? :p

Erm, hmm, sure suppose those are the ones I meant.. lol ok, suppose I didnt know there was an SDK agreement against making real time GPS apps.. blah.. well hurry up TomTom!!!

soberbrain
Jul 10, 2008, 12:59 PM
Garmin's got their own Nuvifone (http://www8.garmin.com/nuvifone/) so they probably won't be making an app for the iPhone. Though, I wish they would.

daveschroeder
Jul 10, 2008, 12:59 PM
You mean the apps that violate the SDK agreement? :p

I think only TomTom is the company that would be allowed to have real-time navigation?

You're confusing things here.

Any and all applications can use GPS via CoreLocation...

...EXCEPT applications which "real time route guidance".

TomTom is no special exception.

So, to clarify:

1. Applications which use GPS DO NOT violate the SDK license. They are free to use GPS (or, more accurately, CoreLocation). That is the whole point.

2. The only exception is applications which provide "real time route guidance". TomTom is not excluded from this, and would also be prohibited from creating such an app.

As for the LBS apps utilizing GPS (via CoreLocation), it's the *first day*, here, guys. Ever heard of patience? ;-)

Socom
Jul 10, 2008, 01:09 PM
You're confusing things here.
As for the LBS apps utilizing GPS (via CoreLocation), it's the *first day*, here, guys. Ever heard of patience? ;-)

I am all for patience, however, this is the one thing I have wanted more then all others, it was the hardest thing to give up when I moved from my Smartphone to the iPhone, I need GPS, and tho the triangulation is cool, in a city with a lot of streets that are close together, its not so much fun. Ok, I wanted MMS and Copy/Paste too, but GPS, thats really what I need!

Guess I dont have much choice right now tho :/

daveschroeder
Jul 10, 2008, 01:12 PM
I am all for patience, however, this is the one thing I have wanted more then all others, it was the hardest thing to give up when I moved from my Smartphone to the iPhone, I need GPS, and tho the triangulation is cool, in a city with a lot of streets that are close together, its not so much fun. Ok, I wanted MMS and Copy/Paste too, but GPS, thats really what I need!

Guess I dont have much choice right now tho :/

So, do you have or are you getting an iPhone 3G?

Because if you have a first gen iPhone all the apps in the world aren't going to get you any more accuracy, and Google Maps on the iPhone 3G already can pinpoint down to the street level with the GPS accuracy you're expecting...

http://www.apple.com/iphone/features/maps.html

bacaramac
Jul 10, 2008, 01:14 PM
Before you guys yell at me, I have NOT read the SDK restrictions.

Based on the very long GPS thread, it looks like the restiction is that it cannot use Google Maps data, not that you couldn't have navigation software.

Please feel free to post if I received incorrect info.

daveschroeder
Jul 10, 2008, 01:19 PM
Before you guys yell at me, I have NOT read the SDK restrictions.

Based on the very long GPS thread, it looks like the restiction is that it cannot use Google Maps data, not that you couldn't have navigation software.

Please feel free to post if I received incorrect info.

Yes, you are incorrect. It has nothing to do with Google Maps (though that data is likely off limits as well).

The iPhone SDK license says applications may not be developed AT ALL which "provide real time route guidance". That is the wording. There is nothing implied about Google Maps data; either way, some more clarification from Apple would be a good thing, here.

dccorona
Jul 10, 2008, 01:21 PM
Before you guys yell at me, I have NOT read the SDK restrictions.

Based on the very long GPS thread, it looks like the restiction is that it cannot use Google Maps data, not that you couldn't have navigation software.

Please feel free to post if I received incorrect info.

based on my understanding, you, sir, are entirely correct

daveschroeder
Jul 10, 2008, 01:24 PM
based on my understanding, you, sir, are entirely correct

No, that is 100% wrong.

There is no reference to Google Maps in the SDK license, and nothing to indicate the restriction only applies to Google Maps data.

It says:

Applications may not be designed or marketed for real time route guidance; automatic or autonomous control of vehicles or aircraft, or other mechanical devices; dispatch or fleet management; or emergency or life-saving purposes.

Period.

That means, right now, Applications may not be designed or marketed for real time route guidance.

bacaramac
Jul 10, 2008, 01:24 PM
Either way, the Google Maps tracking will work for my needs as I have Navi in one of my cars and plan to add an aftermarket navi in my other.

Socom
Jul 10, 2008, 01:27 PM
So, do you have or are you getting an iPhone 3G?

Of course I am getting the iPhone 3G.... thats just crazy talk

daveschroeder
Jul 10, 2008, 01:31 PM
Of course I am getting the iPhone 3G.... thats just crazy talk

Well, if all you're concerned about is being able to pinpoint your location on a map with traditional GPS accuracy, you'll already have that via Google Maps on day one.

m4rc
Jul 10, 2008, 03:28 PM
No, that is 100% wrong.

There is no reference to Google Maps in the SDK license, and nothing to indicate the restriction only applies to Google Maps data.

It says:



Period.

That means, right now, Applications may not be designed or marketed for real time route guidance.



The wording is Google's, not Apple's, Google don't allow it so Apple doesn't allow it, it ALMOST looks like Apple just threw it in to protect Google. Its not clear cut and you therefore can't say it is 100% wrong.

TomTom has made an app, my bet is that Apple will allow one company to make a turn-by-turn guidance system for the iPhone and just want the market clear for that company.

daveschroeder
Jul 10, 2008, 03:44 PM
The wording is Google's, not Apple's, Google don't allow it so Apple doesn't allow it, it ALMOST looks like Apple just threw it in to protect Google. Its not clear cut and you therefore can't say it is 100% wrong.

TomTom has made an app, my bet is that Apple will allow one company to make a turn-by-turn guidance system for the iPhone and just want the market clear for that company.

If Apple allows one company to make turn-by-turn vehicle navigation, they'll let anyone.

And why not, as long as the app vendors have all properly licensed their own map and navigation data?

The point is that it is nothing more than weak speculation that the SDK license language "only" applies to Google Maps data. While we can wish that is the case, it doesn't make it so. There needs to be explicit clarification from Apple.

And given that Apple went out of its way to tell one of its first reviewers that the unit — the stated reason is utterly beside the point — is not suitable for in-vehicle real time navigation, one can assume that Apple is, for whatever reason, not targeting this market. It could be for technical, legal, timing, economic, licensing, carrier, or other reasons. We also know that Apple's iPhone SDK prohibits applications that "provide real time route guidance" without respect to Google Maps. That is what we know.

To say anything else is unfounded speculation. It may ultimately be that this was an early boilerplate statement to prevent people from rushing to make nav apps based on Google Maps data (which, indeed, is against Google's own agreements with the data providers). But we need clarification from Apple. One of THE primary things I'd love to see on the iPhone is a nice in-vehicle, turn-by-turn navigation application. But right now, it doesn't look like that is possible due to the license and possibly other, as yet unknown, reasons. Apple will likely have to clarify this to reviewers in the upcoming weeks beyond the weak "the antenna is too small" business it gave to Pogue.

Socom
Jul 10, 2008, 03:45 PM
Well, if all you're concerned about is being able to pinpoint your location on a map with traditional GPS accuracy, you'll already have that via Google Maps on day one.

We are getting redundant. All I meant was that I was looking forward to a GPS with true turn by turn as that is what I miss about my smartphone, where I installed TomTom and was happy. Apparently at this time that is not available, however, I know it is coming, and TomTom did a press release saying it was in the works. I was hopping it would be on release day, as GPS is a major feature upgrade, and when most people think GPS they think turn by turn directions, not just a where am I located currently feature. Tho that is cool feature and the possibilities with it are very big.

Socom
Jul 10, 2008, 03:49 PM
To say anything else is unfounded speculation.

Dave, this is a rumor site, I was asking a question, and possible ideas and speculation... see below.

I know the rumor is TomTom is going to release something, anyone know of any others or when on any of these will release?

And I was wishing beyond wishing it would happen at release! :)

DaveGee
Jul 10, 2008, 03:58 PM
Okay I can't remember where I read this from but...

I was under the impression that the small gps antenna/receiver was the sticking point when it comes to turn by turn directions. Not being able to pinpoint a location too quickly when you were traveling at car speeds... Sure it works fine standing or walking about but motoring down the highway at 70MPH it might might have a bit of a lag time...

I dunno... Oh, and I'm **NOT** claiming this is **FACT** (and hate people who do stuff like that) but it was something that I read on the net (WSJ Article maybe?). So take it for what its worth.

Dave

Socom
Jul 10, 2008, 04:38 PM
Okay I can't remember where I read this from but...

I was under the impression that the small gps antenna/receiver was the sticking point when it comes to turn by turn directions. Not being able to pinpoint a location too quickly when you were traveling at car speeds... Sure it works fine standing or walking about but motoring down the highway at 70MPH it might might have a bit of a lag time...

Dave

Now that you mention that, I think I might have read something about that as well, not sure how big a GPS antenna needs to be though, I mean it works on other phones... oh well, time will tell!

joseluis.17
Jul 10, 2008, 04:49 PM
Okay I can't remember where I read this from but...

I was under the impression that the small gps antenna/receiver was the sticking point when it comes to turn by turn directions. Not being able to pinpoint a location too quickly when you were traveling at car speeds... Sure it works fine standing or walking about but motoring down the highway at 70MPH it might might have a bit of a lag time...

I dunno... Oh, and I'm **NOT** claiming this is **FACT** (and hate people who do stuff like that) but it was something that I read on the net (WSJ Article maybe?). So take it for what its worth.

Dave

I belive I've also read that and I think it was in this page in the rumors section :)

arzook
Jul 10, 2008, 04:54 PM
are there any car accessories to keep the iphone within view ? no turn by turn guidance means a lot of looking into it every now and then.

plumbingandtech
Jul 10, 2008, 04:58 PM
and the crowd goes silent:

TeleNav Confirms iPhone In-Car Navigation App

http://gizmodo.com/5024018/telenav-confirms-iphone-in+car-navigation-app

Niiro13
Jul 10, 2008, 05:02 PM
You're confusing things here.

Any and all applications can use GPS via CoreLocation...

...EXCEPT applications which "real time route guidance".

TomTom is no special exception.

2. The only exception is applications which provide "real time route guidance". TomTom is not excluded from this, and would also be prohibited from creating such an app.

Yeah, I assumed they meant turn by turn, since Navigation applications which use CoreLocation to get your position are already out. All you need is the 3G iPhone now.

The SDK Agreement can be overturned if TomTom asks Apple and Apple says yes...

daveschroeder
Jul 10, 2008, 05:05 PM
and the crowd goes silent:

TeleNav Confirms iPhone In-Car Navigation App

http://gizmodo.com/5024018/telenav-confirms-iphone-in+car-navigation-app

No, it doesn't go silent.

TomTom also "confirmed" it was working on such an app.

Nothing is confirmed until Apple clarifies the issue of applications which provide "real time route guidance" being prohibited by the iPhone SDK license, and such applications actually end up becoming available for end consumers via the App Store. What can technically be done with the SDK and reality are two different things.

I'm one of those people who thinks that eventually we're going to see the conventional turn-by-turn nav apps we're all expecting. But given the iPhone SDK license and what Apple has said so far, they're treading very gently in this area, and it's not just because of the Google Maps data (which is indeed off limits for such use, but that's another issue entirely).

plumbingandtech
Jul 10, 2008, 05:11 PM
No, it doesn't go silent.

TomTom also "confirmed" it was working on such an app.

Nothing is confirmed until Apple clarifies the issue of applications which provide "real time route guidance" being prohibited by the iPhone SDK license, and such applications actually end up becoming available for end consumers via the App Store. What can technically be done with the SDK and reality are two different things.

I'm one of those people who thinks that eventually we're going to see the conventional turn-by-turn nav apps we're all expecting. But given the iPhone SDK license and what Apple has said so far, they're treading very gently in this area, and it's not just because of the Google Maps data (which is indeed off limits for such use, but that's another issue entirely).

You honestly think that telenav, which does work with ATT did not read that liitle bit in the SDK EULA before announcing and confirming?

that phrase is in there to protect apple, and will be excluded on a per company basis.