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MacRumors
Dec 19, 2003, 10:43 AM
Austin American-Statesman reports (http://www.statesman.com/business/content/auto/epaper/editions/friday/business_f32e1ad7806a124500e9.html) that Dell has stopped selling the Apple iPod.

According to one of their spokeswomen, "We've stopped selling them permanently".

Apple maintains that the Apple iPod is the #1 digital music player, and notes that "Dell accounted for a just a small fraction of iPod sales."

No reason, however, is given for the drop of the Apple iPod. While Dell recently introduced their own Portable Music Player that competes with the iPod, Dell has always sold a variety of competitor's products. One analyst speculates that Dells lower then retail pricing may have played a role: "Apple is pretty insistent . . . about the pricing."

pgwalsh
Dec 19, 2003, 10:49 AM
I'd still like to see Apple products in as many channels as possible. However, their retail stores are something else.. What an experience.

AmigoMac
Dec 19, 2003, 10:50 AM
It was looking so silly on that homepage, just like a comparison object :( ... now, oranges with oranges and apples with apples :)

ITR 81
Dec 19, 2003, 10:54 AM
I voted neg. only because I think the iPod needs to be in every outlet it can be, but then again I also see the reasons why.

Arcady
Dec 19, 2003, 10:54 AM
I tried to order a 30gb iPod from Dell two months ago. (We had a Dell loan, and there was enough left to stick an iPod in the order.) Anyway, after a month of the runaround, they finally decided they could not deliver it, and offered me some Archos thing instead.

So, Dell was listing iPods two months ago, but stopped selling them right after that.

Nebrie
Dec 19, 2003, 10:56 AM
This sucks, with stackable coupons, you could always whack 80-100 off the price of an ipod at dell with no tax and free shipping.

the_mole1314
Dec 19, 2003, 10:58 AM
And in other news, today, HP & Gateway have started shipping iMacs and PowerMacs to balance the universe after Dell dropped the iPod.

achmafooma
Dec 19, 2003, 11:00 AM
I figured the iPod wouldn't last on Dell's site. I would assume that the iPod sells significantly better than the Dell DJ. If so, that would be pretty embarrassing for them... if they sold more Apple iPods than their own player on their own website.

Poking around their PDA section, I see that they have a few PalmOS handhelds... but the only PocketPC handhelds are their own Axims. So I guess they don't want anything that's too similar to their knock-offs... I mean products.

;-)

robotrenegade
Dec 19, 2003, 11:00 AM
Dells player looks like it sucks anyhow.

iChan
Dec 19, 2003, 11:13 AM
whether the Dell Dj look bad or not is not the issue here, the thing is, while the iPod is being sold in a lot of new places, in the process, apple have lost a huge distribution channell, and I don't think that statement about Dell only selling only a fraction of the total amount of iPods is anything more than senseless willy-waving.

"a small fraction", its all relative... 2 million iPods sold, 5% =100,000... a lot of iPods by anyone's standard.

wilco
Dec 19, 2003, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by ITR 81
I voted neg. only because I think the iPod needs to be in every outlet it can be, but then again I also see the reasons why.

Isn't this the part where you tell everyone you knew this was coming weeks ago?:rolleyes:

MikeH
Dec 19, 2003, 11:26 AM
I read an artical on the New York Times website a while back that said "there are two types of people in New York, those who have iPods and those who want an iPod..."*

With comments like that being used in the popular press I doubt whether Dell dropping the iPod will affect its sales much, as for the time being at least it's a product everyone wants, rather than just gadget freaks and Apple fans.

(*words to that effect)

macFanDave
Dec 19, 2003, 11:40 AM
I thought once Dell started selling its own POS MP3 player, it would immediately ditch the iPod. What took them so long?

Is there any word if Microsoft will stop selling Panther? ;-)

iChan
Dec 19, 2003, 11:41 AM
reminds me of the comment about the Lord of the Rings, "the world is divided into two halves, those who have read the Lord of the Rings, and those who have yet to read the Lord of the Rings" (paraphrasing a bit)

I assume that this is where the iPod quote derives from... to have the iPod written about in the New York Times in the same esteem as the Lord of the Rings really cements the ipods already legendary status...



however, if Apple continue to lose big channels of distribution, then we might have to kiss goodbye the notion that ipod will reach mass penetration... sales-wise i mean.

Fender2112
Dec 19, 2003, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by MikeH
I read an artical on the New York Times website a while back that said "there are two types of people in New York, those who have iPods and those who want an iPod..."*

With comments like that being used in the popular press I doubt whether Dell dropping the iPod will affect its sales much, as for the time being at least it's a product everyone wants, rather than just gadget freaks and Apple fans.

(*words to that effect)

Along the same lines: The iPod has made its mark on pop culture and I feel it's going to be here for quite a while. The demand for the iPod exists. If Dell doesn't want to sell them, fine. People will buy from whomever is selling.

iChan
Dec 19, 2003, 11:44 AM
the walkman reached a stage where all personal cassette players were referred to as Walkmen, like a Hoover for vacuum cleaner and Rollerblades for inline skates, or tip-ex for correction fluid or (you get the picture, does anyone actually think that people will ever ever start referring all HD-based music players as iPods? I don't know think so.

kenaustus
Dec 19, 2003, 11:51 AM
Dell dropped the iPod simply because they have their own product. If it fails then you will see the iPod back rather rapidly.

iChan
Dec 19, 2003, 11:57 AM
"permanently"

micvog
Dec 19, 2003, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by iChan
however, if Apple continue to lose big channels of distribution, then we might have to kiss goodbye the notion that ipod will reach mass penetration... sales-wise i mean.

If people want to buy iPods online, they can go to Amazon.com or a number of other websites - the effect on Apple would seem to be pretty minimal.

Right now, Apple's biggest problem appears to be making iPods fast enough. Amazon.com was out of stock earlier this week (I am not sure about now). My local Best Buy only has 40GB units in stock; same for CompUSA. My local Robinsons-May is completely out.

That being said, I don't think the iPod had serious competition this Christmas season. Joe Consumer has no idea who iRiver is and you can't drive to the mall and pick up a Dell DJ. I think HP recognizes that their brand name, and retail brick-and-mortar sales presence, give them a competitive advantage against all of the other non-iPod players out there. I am betting it comes down to Apple vs. HP. Unfortunately for HP, they are a little late.

micvog
Dec 19, 2003, 12:04 PM
Originally posted by iChan
does anyone actually think that people will ever ever start referring all HD-based music players as iPods? I don't know think so.

Yes.

Arn - perhaps this would make a good poll?

Lanbrown
Dec 19, 2003, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by iChan
whether the Dell Dj look bad or not is not the issue here, the thing is, while the iPod is being sold in a lot of new places, in the process, apple have lost a huge distribution channell, and I don't think that statement about Dell only selling only a fraction of the total amount of iPods is anything more than senseless willy-waving.

"a small fraction", its all relative... 2 million iPods sold, 5% =100,000... a lot of iPods by anyone's standard.

People can still buy them from other sources, so it's not like the sales are lost. A small percentage would be though.

gothamac
Dec 19, 2003, 12:25 PM
I think it would be like running a modeling agency and having Cindy Crawford and Rosie O'Donald on the same spreadsheet for clients to pick from, and you make more money when they chose Rosie.

Lanbrown
Dec 19, 2003, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by iChan
"permanently"

If customers want it and Dell can make money off of it, then Dell is obligated to sell them, as their shareholders want nice profits. Just because a company says something doesn't mean that they will live by it. Some companies refused to supply Y2K patches for some products and wanted their customers to upgrade. After some customers told them where to go and said if we have to upgrade, we will switch to a competitor, which some did. That forced some companies to provide Y2K patches for older products.

dmbream
Dec 19, 2003, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by iChan
does anyone actually think that people will ever ever start referring all HD-based music players as iPods?

Yes and yes.

My friend just got a new BMW. He was happy to discover that the stock sound system in the car has a line-in jack for attaching portable audio devices directly, without the need for cassette adapters, FM transmitters, etc.

In the car's manual, the instructions for attaching devices goes roughly as follows:

"Your car is equipped with a line-in jack...for attaching your iPod."

Not "portable hard drive-based digital music player," but "iPod."

It's gaining momentum, and should the fadness of the iPod hold on for a little longer, it should become part of the varnacular.

I'm waiting to hear "Please turn off your iPod for takeoff" on an airplane. That usually means "you've made it" in terms of owning the lingo. The terms "Gameboy" and "Walkman" are typically used universally when referring to proucts in either catagory.

Lanbrown
Dec 19, 2003, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by micvog
Right now, Apple's biggest problem appears to be making iPods fast enough. Amazon.com was out of stock earlier this week (I am not sure about now). My local Best Buy only has 40GB units in stock; same for CompUSA. My local Robinsons-May is completely out.

The company my mom works for gave out 10GB iPods to some of the divisions of the company. I heard most people got one, which would be close to 3000 iPods given for a holiday gift. One reason why some might be hard to find.

trose
Dec 19, 2003, 12:36 PM
does anyone actually think that people will ever ever start referring all HD-based music players as iPods?

I certainly think its possible.
Really, your average consumer either calls it a MP3 player, or an iPod. Nobody knows the name of all these other players.

pgwalsh
Dec 19, 2003, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by micvog

Right now, Apple's biggest problem appears to be making iPods fast enough. Amazon.com was out of stock earlier this week (I am not sure about now). My local Best Buy only has 40GB units in stock; same for CompUSA. My local Robinsons-May is completely out.
heheheh... we bought 4 40GB ipods for the holidays. .

From Win to Mac
Dec 19, 2003, 12:53 PM
Apple stopped selling all those Rio and other MP3 players when they annouced the iPod. why are people surprised ??

machinehien
Dec 19, 2003, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by Arcady
I tried to order a 30gb iPod from Dell two months ago. (We had a Dell loan, and there was enough left to stick an iPod in the order.) Anyway, after a month of the runaround, they finally decided they could not deliver it, and offered me some Archos thing instead.

So, Dell was listing iPods two months ago, but stopped selling them right after that.

I got my 40 GB back in Nov from Dell, only reason I did so was that dell was selling it for $409 which was way cheaper than anywhere else. I figured Apple must have gotten peeved and cut Dell off as a retailer. Or Dell knew they weren't going to carry it much longer and discounted that batch.

Lanbrown
Dec 19, 2003, 12:59 PM
A manufacturer cannot control the pricing of their product; they can only control what they sell it for. Once that has happened, they are out of it.

winmacguy
Dec 19, 2003, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by iChan
reminds me of the comment about the Lord of the Rings, "the world is divided into two halves, those who have read the Lord of the Rings, and those who have yet to read the Lord of the Rings" (paraphrasing a bit)

I assume that this is where the iPod quote derives from... to have the iPod written about in the New York Times in the same esteem as the Lord of the Rings really cements the ipods already legendary status...



however, if Apple continue to lose big channels of distribution, then we might have to kiss goodbye the notion that ipod will reach mass penetration... sales-wise i mean.

Dont forget that the iPod is also sold world wide and not soley through Dell. Virgin Music stores in the UK sell iPods, we have a number or appliance stores in NZ that sell iPods although not in any great numbers as they dont have it on display. I think also the fact that there are so many channels now that promote iTunes and iTMS that it wont be a huge factor. Amazon.com and .co.uk both sell iPods and they would both be a pretty major distribution channels

winmacguy
Dec 19, 2003, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by dmbream
Yes and yes.

My friend just got a new BMW. He was happy to discover that the stock sound system in the car has a line-in jack for attaching portable audio devices directly, without the need for cassette adapters, FM transmitters, etc.

In the car's manual, the instructions for attaching devices goes roughly as follows:

"Your car is equipped with a line-in jack...for attaching your iPod."

Not "portable hard drive-based digital music player," but "iPod."

It's gaining momentum, and should the fadness of the iPod hold on for a little longer, it should become part of the varnacular.

I'm waiting to hear "Please turn off your iPod for takeoff" on an airplane. That usually means "you've made it" in terms of owning the lingo. The terms "Gameboy" and "Walkman" are typically used universally when referring to proucts in either catagory.

BMW the ultimate driving machine

rjstanford
Dec 19, 2003, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by Lanbrown
A manufacturer cannot control the pricing of their product; they can only control what they sell it for. Once that has happened, they are out of it. Whoo... where have you been? First, a manufacturer can easily have it in a contract with their distributors/retailers that anyone who charges under MSRP never gets another shipment... while not "direct" control, its pretty darn effective, no?

Second, how often do you see anyone offering discounts from MSRP for Apple products? Dell did it - and now they're out of that market. Amazon does it very occasionally. Circuit City did it for a couple of days on the iPod, then it went away. Apple controls their retailers very strictly, the same way that companies like Bose do (and believe me, that's not flattering company to be in).

-Richard

ZildjianKX
Dec 19, 2003, 01:32 PM
This is bad news for Apple... hell, I've even bought an iPod from Dell.

tazznb
Dec 19, 2003, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by iChan
the walkman reached a stage where all personal cassette players were referred to as Walkmen, like a Hoover for vacuum cleaner and Rollerblades for inline skates, or tip-ex for correction fluid or (you get the picture, does anyone actually think that people will ever ever start referring all HD-based music players as iPods? I don't know think so.

Mt girlfriend, and plenty of others do.

You have to understand that you are one of the technology literate / geek.

*hint*

My girlfriend, and ALL THE OTHERS that call any mp3 player an iPod don't visit this site, and take time out to type comments.

They couldn't care less.

pgwalsh
Dec 19, 2003, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by rjstanford
Whoo... where have you been? First, a manufacturer can easily have it in a contract with their distributors/retailers that anyone who charges under MSRP never gets another shipment... while not "direct" control, its pretty darn effective, no?

Second, how often do you see anyone offering discounts from MSRP for Apple products? Dell did it - and now they're out of that market. Amazon does it very occasionally. Circuit City did it for a couple of days on the iPod, then it went away. Apple controls their retailers very strictly, the same way that companies like Bose do (and believe me, that's not flattering company to be in).

-Richard Right.. He was thinking of price fixing, but that's between resellers.. Not wholesaler, OEM's and resellers.

Makosuke
Dec 19, 2003, 02:01 PM
Seems a little petty to me, but then from a business standpoint at this point it makes sense--who in thier right mind would buy a Dell player when it's sitting next to an iPod with a steep discount? And you gotta believe that with that gouging on the iPod Dell wasn't making much off of it--more of a draw, I'd expect.

MattG
Dec 19, 2003, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by Arcady
I tried to order a 30gb iPod from Dell two months ago. (We had a Dell loan, and there was enough left to stick an iPod in the order.) Anyway, after a month of the runaround, they finally decided they could not deliver it, and offered me some Archos thing instead.

So, Dell was listing iPods two months ago, but stopped selling them right after that. Are you sure it wasn't because the 30gb were discontinued by Apple right around that same time? Maybe Dell couldn't supply them because Apple wasn't making them anymore?

Lanbrown
Dec 19, 2003, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by rjstanford
Whoo... where have you been? First, a manufacturer can easily have it in a contract with their distributors/retailers that anyone who charges under MSRP never gets another shipment... while not "direct" control, its pretty darn effective, no?

Second, how often do you see anyone offering discounts from MSRP for Apple products? Dell did it - and now they're out of that market. Amazon does it very occasionally. Circuit City did it for a couple of days on the iPod, then it went away. Apple controls their retailers very strictly, the same way that companies like Bose do (and believe me, that's not flattering company to be in).

-Richard

You are wrong, if the manufacturer controls the price, its considered price fixing. Car dealers like to jack the price of a high demand vehicle up and the manufacturers do not like that. Guess what, they have no say what the dealer does. If the dealer wants to jack the prices up, they can. The scenario you have provided is called price-fixing. You need to brush up on your law Section 5(a)(1) of the Federal Trade Commission Act says this "Unfair methods of competition in commerce, and unlawful or deceptive acts or practices in commerce, are declared unlawful" and in the AMWAY case, this is what a judge ruled. "Combining and conspiring to fix resale prices is a prohibited act, says this Judge, says this Commission, and says hundreds of cases before and after the Amway case. The price fixing lesson from this case can be looked at from three viewpoints, the MLM or Direct Selling Company, the Distributor, in his or her relationship to the Company whose products or services the distributorship sells, and the Distributor in his or her relationship to other distributors.

A company has an absolute right to SET prices. SETTING prices is not FIXING prices. Combinations or conspiracies are needed to FIX prices and one cannot combine or conspire with one self. No matter how many employees of ABC Company sit around the conference table deciding what to charge for the new widget, it is not a conspiracy. However, no independent contractor distributor of the company should ever be at such a meeting. All of the company's employees are part of one legal entity, the corporation, for purposes of deciding whether "two or more persons" conspired to do anything. Have a distributor, or a competitor, or a supplier, or a visitor on a plant tour for that matter attend, and the requirement of "two or more persons" has been met. This, of course, is not automatically an illegal conspiracy, by why even take the chance. The classic example is two or more COMPETITORS agreeing to fix prices, usually to damage a third competitor or just to line their pockets at the expense of the consuming public. The variation on the classic theme, also prohibited by law, is retail price maintenance. It usually involves one manufacturer, with or without the knowing cooperation of one or more of its distributors. It can also involve just two or more distributors.

A company can unilaterally publish SUGGESTED retail prices. A company CANNOT do anything to require that its independent sales force sell at the prices suggested by the company. Amway's practices in the early Sixties were deemed to be illegal acts intended to maintain the retail price of its products.

It is on the issue of retail price maintenance that the Amway case becomes very specific. The Judge writes: "The Rules of Conduct of the Amway Sales Plan published in 1963 required that distributors sell Amway products to consumers at the specified resale price. It also provided that no unauthorized discount be given on sales to other distributors, and fixed the resale charge for freight. The record does not show when Amway stopped using this sales manual or whether distributors were ever clearly notified that it does not express Amway's policy. Such resale price maintenance is per se unlawful.""

Do you know what MSRP stands for? Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price. The key word there is suggested. If a company could control the price, it would be called the MMRP, Manufacturers Mandated Retail Price.

Lanbrown
Dec 19, 2003, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by pgwalsh
Right.. He was thinking of price fixing, but that's between resellers.. Not wholesaler, OEM's and resellers.

No its not, price-fixing goes beyond just resellers.

the_dalex
Dec 19, 2003, 03:05 PM
Dell stopped selling iPods for multiple reasons, I'm sure. The biggest would be the obvious conflict with their own product. Dell sells just about anything, but as soon as they can get a Dell-branded version they will cut out the other manufacturers when possible. Often, it's the same manufacturer putting Dell's name on the product.

Pricewise, Dell probably was taking losses on the iPods every time they sold them cheap. Why have two competing products, with the most popular one netting you either no money or negative money, and one with a large profit margin and not yet established in the marketplace... it just wouldn't make business sense. Dell is relying on people who either don't know the iPod or think that the Dell is just as good (Dell caters to the non-tech-savvy).

As for Apple setting prices, they can and do. If you notice, the online retailers can't drop the price more than $5 below Apple's retail price, or they could/will lose their reseller status. That's why Macmall and such use other promos, like free ram or free printers (and then they charge an installation fee for ram that is almost as much as the price of the ram itself).

pgwalsh
Dec 19, 2003, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by Lanbrown
No its not, price-fixing goes beyond just resellers. yes.. it does, but it includes one or more companies or businesses to maintain a specific price...

DGFan
Dec 19, 2003, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by Lanbrown
A manufacturer cannot control the pricing of their product; they can only control what they sell it for. Once that has happened, they are out of it.

Not true. Purchase agreements can include such language.

edit:
Ok, I read up on the FTC Act.
If this activity is illegal then how do you explain game console prices? That's price fixing....

bensisko
Dec 19, 2003, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by iChan
...does anyone actually think that people will ever ever start referring all HD-based music players as iPods? I don't know think so.

Though many others have already said it, i'll say it too, Yes. I've even heard of non-HD based mp3 players as referred to as iPods. I think iPod is here to stay.

captain kirk
Dec 19, 2003, 04:24 PM
Originally posted by rjstanford
Whoo... where have you been? First, a manufacturer can easily have it in a contract with their distributors/retailers that anyone who charges under MSRP never gets another shipment... while not "direct" control, its pretty darn effective, no?

Second, how often do you see anyone offering discounts from MSRP for Apple products? Dell did it - and now they're out of that market. Amazon does it very occasionally. Circuit City did it for a couple of days on the iPod, then it went away. Apple controls their retailers very strictly, the same way that companies like Bose do (and believe me, that's not flattering company to be in).


The reason that you find very few discounts on the msrp on apple's products including iPod is not quite as you describe. It all comes down to margin. Resellers make very little money out of selling an iPod especially when compared to competitors products such as the creative zen etc. The reason apple can justify this to the resellers is that iPod practically sells itself and they sell in very large volume. Therefore the although the %age margin onj ipod is low the cash margin is quite high due to sheer volume of sales.
-Richard

captain kirk
Dec 19, 2003, 04:28 PM
Slight c@*k up in the quoting department today.
My point is that if any reseller sells an ipod for $30 less than msrp then they are losing money.

Rcee
Dec 19, 2003, 11:52 PM
In addition to the business rationale of giving more attention to its fledgling, misshapen mp3 player, Dell might have personal reasons, too.

After all, it's scarcely a month since Jobs (in that very intriguing NY Times Magazine piece) mocked Michael Dell for being unable to dance. ;-)

Himosan
Dec 20, 2003, 03:32 AM
I think it's pretty clear that dell "dropped" apple because apple stopped supplying them with ipods (in an effort to curb discounting for whatever reason...).

It's the old 'you're fired, I quit' scenario.

Steven1621
Dec 20, 2003, 09:31 AM
one certainly can't blame dell for not wanting to sell it top rival as well as a better product than their own.

apple's presence in target stores as well as best buy is far more valuable than dell, not to mention the quality of their own apple stores.

slipper
Dec 20, 2003, 01:32 PM
the term price fixing is not setting a set price for an individual product from an individual company. rather, it would be a bunch of companies such as apple and dell and several other HD-music players joining together with the intent of jacking up the prices of the entire market in attempt to increase profits.

hmm doesnt this sound familiar? gas prices have been pretty high this year... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: well just kidding but you get the idea right?

slipper
Dec 20, 2003, 01:34 PM
i think its silly for dell to not support the mp4 format. iTunes is selling like crazy, they are only limiting their product. i guess thats good for apple however i wish they would lower the prices of the ipod

Trowaman
Dec 20, 2003, 02:17 PM
Dell wants to try and promote it's "DellPod" so it drops the competition. Apple however has this flowchart lined up for the iPod

1. Establish the iPod as cool and make people want it

2. Allow it to reach mass population (Windows).

3. Now bundle it with Mac software (iTunes) and let people have Mac hardware and software on their comps and make a decision to get a MAc.

4. Since eveyone has an iPod WMA dies out adn the AAC exclusive becomes a styandard due to how many people have iPods.

And that's the game plan. It's the waiting game now.

Himosan
Dec 20, 2003, 05:37 PM
That is so NOT the gameplan.

1. Apple cannot expect to (and does not expect to) dominate anything for the long term. They are a business and they are profit driven. If they wanted market saturation they could knock $100+ off the ipod tomorrow but I guarantee you they won't. If you look at the comments in SJ interview with RS he knows Dell will ultimately sell more units just as every PC company moves more desktops then apple. But apple will still be the most profitable. Apple -> profit not #'s.

2. ITMS is meant to sell ipods, not the other way around.

winmacguy
Dec 20, 2003, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by Himosan
That is so NOT the gameplan.

1. Apple cannot expect to (and does not expect to) dominate anything for the long term. They are a business and they are profit driven. If they wanted market saturation they could knock $100+ off the ipod tomorrow but I guarantee you they won't. If you look at the comments in SJ interview with RS he knows Dell will ultimately sell more units just as every PC company moves more desktops then apple. But apple will still be the most profitable. Apple -> profit not #'s.

2. ITMS is meant to sell ipods, not the other way around.

Exactly, I notice that the Australian December issuse of PC magazine has a copy of iTunes on their freeware demo CD that they attach to each monthly copy of their mag with the suggesting that PC owners load it on to their PCs to "try it out" and see what all the fuss is about and see how good it is compared to Windows Media Player. Of course if they do this they will have to get an iPod to put their songs onto
Just another way of getting an Apple product into the PC market internationally

NJANJA
Dec 21, 2003, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by slipper
the term price fixing is not setting a set price for an individual product from an individual company. rather, it would be a bunch of companies such as apple and dell and several other HD-music players joining together with the intent of jacking up the prices of the entire market in attempt to increase profits.

hmm doesnt this sound familiar? gas prices have been pretty high this year... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: well just kidding but you get the idea right?

Just to clean up some of the terminology around here:

(1) resale price maintenance is the practice of a supplier of goods enforcing a minimum price for the resale of those goods (ie. a vertical price control);

(2) price-fixing is an arrangement between competitors in a market to set prices for the sale of those goods by the parties to that arrangment (ie. a horizontol price control).

Both of these practices are illegal is most countries that have restrcitive trade practices legislation, such as your Sherman Act, and our Trade Practices Act (in Aust.).

danielgrenell
Dec 22, 2003, 12:55 AM
probably because they put out that ****ty ipod contender... which is failing!

Lanbrown
Dec 22, 2003, 08:08 AM
Originally posted by DGFan
Not true. Purchase agreements can include such language.

edit:
Ok, I read up on the FTC Act.
If this activity is illegal then how do you explain game console prices? That's price fixing....

There have been times where you see consoles being sold at a discount. Most of the time you do not because people end up buying them anyway. In many case, the markups on the consoles are very slim anyway. The manufacturers lose money on every console sold so there is no markup on them for themselves and they place the MSRP close to what the distributors and retailers pay for them. This limits the amount of room the retailer can charge for the console, so they decide on MSRP and make a modest profit. The games and accessories is where the retailer makes the money on. The retailer could decide to make more money on a console and charge higher then MSRP, but then consumers would just go down the street and buy it.

Apple does not lose money on the iPod.

Lanbrown
Dec 22, 2003, 08:12 AM
Originally posted by slipper
the term price fixing is not setting a set price for an individual product from an individual company. rather, it would be a bunch of companies such as apple and dell and several other HD-music players joining together with the intent of jacking up the prices of the entire market in attempt to increase profits.

hmm doesnt this sound familiar? gas prices have been pretty high this year... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: well just kidding but you get the idea right?

It can be just one company, read my long post above. It has case law in it.

Unfortunately, the fuel prices are different. If one corner drops or raises their prices, then another station does the same thing. They did not get together and decide on prices, they just mimicked one another.

Travis Novak
Dec 25, 2003, 09:57 PM
Originally posted by Lanbrown
A manufacturer cannot control the pricing of their product; they can only control what they sell it for. Once that has happened, they are out of it.
Apple has been hardnosed about uniformed prices. I belive a best buy contract was terminated because of that.