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MacRumors
Dec 19, 2003, 11:18 AM
Apple continues to work on their "next generation iPod" products as evidenced by this Job Listing (https://jobs.apple.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/Employment.woa/wa/jobDescription?RequisitionID=2075781) at Apple for a Playback Firmware Engineer.

Apple is "seeking a highly motivated engineer to develop next generation iPod product. Must have experience in overall system design of audio and video products."

Seems the next generation iPod developer will have to be familiar with both audio and video compression standards.


Title: Playback Firmware Engineer
Req. ID: 2075781
Location: Santa Clara Valley, California
Country: United States

Seeking a highly motivated engineer to develop next generation iPod product. Must have experience in overall system design of audio and video products.

- Requires a thorough knowledge of multimedia file formats (MPEG-4, QuickTime).
- Minimum 5 years of development in embedded system environments.
-Strong C, C++ and RISC assembler is required, experience with DSP
programming is highly desired.
- Knowledge intricate interfaces details associated with audio and video codecs.
- Familiarity with audio and video compression standards (MP3, MPEG-2, H.263)
- Work seamlessly with third party vendors.
- Familiarity with overall architecture of consumer electronics products.

mikeyredk
Dec 19, 2003, 11:21 AM
why in the world would apple post stuff like that in plain view come on where is the secrecy

arn
Dec 19, 2003, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by mikeyredk
why in the world would apple post stuff like that in plain view come on where is the secrecy

I guess you have to hire people with the right skills.... eh?

arn

idkew
Dec 19, 2003, 11:25 AM
just hope that if apple adds video to the ipod it a) does NOT affect battery life and usability or b) offers an audio only iPod in addition to the new A/VPod.

i still miss the point of video on a 1" screen.

sabbath999
Dec 19, 2003, 11:27 AM
Video Good :)

byamabe
Dec 19, 2003, 11:29 AM
Does anyone know how long it takes to RIP a DVD and then transfer it over firewire to another device?

Toe
Dec 19, 2003, 11:31 AM
Oh yeah. A Mobile IP Video Phone. Now that would be killer.

Combine in a roving User Data storage device and an MP3 player and hopefully a PDA, and I dunno who wouldn't wanna buy that thingy.

And knowing Apple, they'll call it "iPod."

COS
Dec 19, 2003, 11:32 AM
Steve J. has repeatedly said that he thinks the ipod's form factor is too small to display video.

I agree.

However, the ipod could act as a device for integration with video on a tv or computer.

Hypothetical example...

The iPod could incorporate a wifi card so as to act as a means of communication between your computer, the internet and your television. The ipod would allow you to order movies by sending a request to your computer to make a movie purchase (or rental), the computer would stream (not download but stream) a purchased or rented movie to your television.

Your computer and ipod would act as an alias to all the streamed movies that you purchased and also display others that are available for purchasing or rental.

The key here is allowing the ipod to be the mechanism that extends the products they already own... rather than trying to make the ipod be an "everything-in-one" device.

iChan
Dec 19, 2003, 11:32 AM
i guess the chances of seeing a video iPod in MWSF in three is slim to none now, seeing as Apples are only advertising this job now...

what do you think??

I think it would take about 45 minutes to transfer a dvd over firewire... depends on a few things though, like how fast your drive is, FW 400 or 800, processor speed, Amount of RAM... basically, the higher the number, the faster! haha..

also, you can get single layer and dual layer dvd disc... dual layer would take twice as long...

mac.edu
Dec 19, 2003, 11:33 AM
I could use a video iPod...I have to travel a long distance this Christmas, I just know that the weather is not going to cooperate. If I had a sweet little viPod the lay-overs in the airports wouldn't be so terrible. I could listen to music, watch a movie, or play Tony Hawk ( you know they would have some awesome games to play with a viPod). Awesome. Keep up the good work Steve

greenstork
Dec 19, 2003, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by idkew
just hope that if apple adds video to the ipod it a) does NOT affect battery life and usability or b) offers an audio only iPod in addition to the new A/VPod.

i still miss the point of video on a 1" screen.

I think you're making one big assumptions about any video iPod. That is, you're assuming it's being designed to actually watch video on. While I don't rule out the possiblity of a screen, as a matter of fact, I think it's likely, the iPod could simply be a portable video player that has a docking station to a TV.

Drop 5-10 of your favorite movies on to your iPod, drop it in the docking station next to your TV and play. This actually ties in quite nicely with a new wireless remote, pretty snazzy.

mrsebastian
Dec 19, 2003, 11:37 AM
things that make you say hmmm... of course this could just be for r&d in case they have to one up the competition in the future. kinda makes you wonder though, wherre will apple take the ipod from here? what does apple think the consumer wants?

bensisko
Dec 19, 2003, 11:39 AM
This doesn't nessessarily mean anything special. They could just be looking for somebody that has a wider range of skills that could be transferred to another department should the need arise.

It sounds like they're looking for someone with a wider base of skills and not just spiciifc to compression.

As long as we're going for the conspiracy theory though, here's mine: The video iPod does not mean viewing videos ON the iPod, rather FROM the iPod. The video iPod will come with A/V Out to connect to a TV or a monitor so that you can use the iPod as a remote control of sorts to view video contained on the hard drive.

greenstork
Dec 19, 2003, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by iChan
i guess the chances of seeing a video iPod in MWSF in three is slim to none now, seeing as Apples are only advertising this job now...

what do you think??

I think it would take about 45 minutes to transfer a dvd over firewire... depends on a few things though, like how fast your drive is, FW 400 or 800, processor speed, Amount of RAM... basically, the higher the number, the faster! haha..

also, you can get single layer and dual layer dvd disc... dual layer would take twice as long...

You're assuming that a movie would have to be stored on your iPod in it's DVD compressed format. I would venture to guess it will be a codec like Divx, or perhaps more likely, some codec Apple creates for highly compressing video. And no, pixlet is not designed to compress down that much but it could be a derivative of pixlet.

JoeRadar
Dec 19, 2003, 11:41 AM
BestBuy is carrying a portable DVD player for $179 with a 5" LCD. The prices for these systems are coming down.

I would think that spinning a hard disk and reading compressed (MPEG-4?) video would burn less battery than spinning a full DVD and reading (relatively) uncompressed DVD movies. If this is true, then a HD and MPEG-4 based movie playback player would get a lot more mileage (play time) than the current portable DVD players.

5000 songs and 10 movies on my iPod AV?

It would sure help on flights, commutes, etc.

mrsebastian
Dec 19, 2003, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by greenstork
I think you're making one big assumptions about any video iPod. That is, you're assuming it's being designed to actually watch video on. While I don't rule out the possiblity of a screen, as a matter of fact, I think it's likely, the iPod could simply be a portable video player that has a docking station to a TV.

Drop 5-10 of your favorite movies on to your iPod, drop it in the docking station next to your TV and play. This actually ties in quite nicely with a new wireless remote, pretty snazzy.

you know you have a good point there. considering that what was once aiff (cd format) music is now mp3 and aac. apple could be following the same path with downloadable video service or something to that affect. in the same repsect as mp3s, p2p video sharing is just as rampant as music. dl your movie(s) to your ipod, plug it in, and watch it on your tv at home.

Stella
Dec 19, 2003, 11:43 AM
When Apple release a Video iPod, that is when I'll buy another iPod.

The difference between the 2nd Gen and 3rd Gen iPods are too little. They both play music....

I want an iPod that I can look at my iPhoto collection, and, of course, Video.

mikeyredk
Dec 19, 2003, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by arn
I guess you have to hire people with the right skills.... eh?

arn
but that gives away all there future products if you know what to look for

but this is off topic

painandgreed
Dec 19, 2003, 11:47 AM
If Apple really is trying to become an appliance company, how aobut an Apple branded DVD player that is also an MP3 player and text reader. that would be exactly what I need for those long plane and car rides. Complete entertainment system with video and audio out so you can carry it over to friends houses and plug it into their entertainment system for movie night or a party.

the_mole1314
Dec 19, 2003, 11:48 AM
I can tell you that there will be no video iPod ever.

But who said Apple won't make something else that plays video? Mabey, not an iPod?

greenstork
Dec 19, 2003, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by mikeyredk
but that gives away all there future products if you know what to look for

but this is off topic

It's only the hawks at rumors sites who really have some insight into what's coming.

Besides, isn't that the fun of rumor watching, piecing together the puzzle before Apple actually releases anything. I know that's what keeps me coming back here every day.

Cheers to arn, happy holidays!

TomSmithMacEd
Dec 19, 2003, 11:52 AM
Originally posted by mikeyredk
why in the world would apple post stuff like that in plain view come on where is the secrecy

Well most people aren't like us and don't check on Apples company webpage to see new jobs availbe then apply to rumors.

Mr.Hey
Dec 19, 2003, 11:55 AM
Guess the Sony Handheld PS2 got their butts moving into high gear. But if Sony can get h.264 for video playback why can't Apple?. I hope Apple develops more games for the 4G iPod....as the young people say.....that would be sweet!!!.

copperpipe
Dec 19, 2003, 12:01 PM
Get yourself the 12" powerbook...

CraigS
Dec 19, 2003, 12:03 PM
- Familiarity with audio and video compression standards (MP3, MPEG-2, H.263)
H.263

The video iPod isn't for playing movies. It's for portable video-conferencing. Think iChat AV-iSight portable video phone. My theory anyway.

mdntcallr
Dec 19, 2003, 12:06 PM
Well if we get a video capable ipod.

Would love tivo connectivity. ie, easy ability to transfer files and sync with tivo boxes.

hey, just an idea.

JoeRadar
Dec 19, 2003, 12:06 PM
Originally posted by arn
I guess you have to hire people with the right skills.... eh?
I think the ad would have worked wrt to finding qualified people without the word "iPod".

idkew
Dec 19, 2003, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by greenstork
I think you're making one big assumptions about any video iPod. That is, you're assuming it's being designed to actually watch video on. While I don't rule out the possiblity of a screen, as a matter of fact, I think it's likely, the iPod could simply be a portable video player that has a docking station to a TV.

Drop 5-10 of your favorite movies on to your iPod, drop it in the docking station next to your TV and play. This actually ties in quite nicely with a new wireless remote, pretty snazzy.

dvds are quite small, and dvd players are very cheap now. this incarnationation makes no sense. not to mention expensive and time consuming. (ripping dvds.)

JoeRadar
Dec 19, 2003, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by the_mole1314
I can tell you that there will be no video iPod ever.

But who said Apple won't make something else that plays video? Mabey, not an iPod?

While I could imagine a video device not having the same form factor as the current iPods, I can still see Apple using the same name.

Apple has invested heavily in name recognition for "iPod", and it has worked. The name "iPod" is now synonymous with cool and success in the music market. There may be cheaper MP3 players, but they have not caught the press attention or mindshare of the iPod.

I think Apple will include the name "iPod". Apple will start selling music videos (e.g., for $2.99) at the iTMS, and users can rip their own DVDs into their iPod AV.

jeffmc425
Dec 19, 2003, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by iChan
i guess the chances of seeing a video iPod in MWSF in three is slim to none now, seeing as Apples are only advertising this job now...

what do you think??

I think it would take about 45 minutes to transfer a dvd over firewire... depends on a few things though, like how fast your drive is, FW 400 or 800, processor speed, Amount of RAM... basically, the higher the number, the faster! haha..

also, you can get single layer and dual layer dvd disc... dual layer would take twice as long...

The point is, you would not transfer the MPEG2 to the device. That would require BIG BIG disks. Instead, the movies , most likely, would be transcoded via the Quicktime subsystem into MPEG-4 or similar (H.264) and stored on the device.
And for viewing, a normal iPod screen is just two small (And being a 2 color screen doesn't help). Most likely this would be a 320x240 landscape device, with a pretty good hosrepower RISC chip that does not suck alot of power while going full bore. You want to get 30FPS at at least 500Kbit rate so there is no artifacts, etc in the playback. (Also depends on the transcoding process on the host).

Other than that, it would be interesting to see what they will come up with.

Jeff

greenstork
Dec 19, 2003, 12:16 PM
Originally posted by idkew
dvds are quite small, and dvd players are very cheap now. this incarnationation makes no sense. not to mention expensive and time consuming. (ripping dvds.)

I guess we just disagree, I'd much rather carry around an iPod with TV connectivity (docking station?) than 5-10 DVD's. In all likelyhood, I'll be carrying around the iPod anyway, so adding 10 DVDs to that is bulk.

Besides, if we're talking about a video iPod here, it is inevitably going to entail ripping DVDs. I am assuming that they aren't being streamed because that makes no sense to me. The iPod is, at it's core, a HD, a storage medium and I would think any video capability would entail using it as such. So if you don't see the point in ripping DVD's, take it up with Steve because if this rumor proves true, I think that is the intention of this device.

Lanbrown
Dec 19, 2003, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by mikeyredk
but that gives away all there future products if you know what to look for

but this is off topic

Could you then please write a job posting that would not give it away?

It gives an idea to the direction they might be taking. It gives very little away and video would be the next step.

Mr.Hey
Dec 19, 2003, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by iChan
i guess the chances of seeing a video iPod in MWSF in three is slim to none now, seeing as Apples are only advertising this job now...


Who knows when this was posted. They could have hired the person some time ago with out broadcasting it to the world and only recently chose to notify the Mac community ;).

I'm thinking that it won't playback VOB's. Instead you would have to encode it into h.263, a-la(?) QT.

And I think Apple could release something similar to PS2 handheld with a diagonal screen. Maybe instead of having the screen face exposed like the PS2-HH, it could look like a normal iPod with the 3" screen on top just for playing audio. And when you want to watch videos you could flip open the top to reveal the screen (attached to the back of the lid and not hard-drive part; to much heat dissipation could damage the screen) the beneath which will have identical buttons. A scroll wheel is much better for scrubbing through videos than the regular stationary (>>) button to controls video playback.

junior
Dec 19, 2003, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by copperpipe
Get yourself the 12" powerbook...

I don't know... Your iPod seems awfully expensive. :rolleyes:

byamabe
Dec 19, 2003, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by greenstork
I guess we just disagree, I'd much rather carry around an iPod with TV connectivity (docking station?) than 5-10 DVD's. In all likelyhood, I'll be carrying around the iPod anyway, so adding 10 DVDs to that is bulk.

Just wondering if you are really going to invest the time to RIP and transfer those 5 - 10 movies. What happens when you get the ROTK: director's cut the night before your trip to Europe. Are you gonna spend the night baby sitting the RIP and transfer?

crees!
Dec 19, 2003, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by byamabe
Does anyone know how long it takes to RIP a DVD and then transfer it over firewire to another device?

Well it depends how large the DVD is. Whether is has 7GB or 9GB or whatever of data files. Normally (on my PB) it takes about 30 minutes to rip a DVD then it's just over a minute per GB to transfer over Firewire 400... So you're looking at an average of 40 minutes or so.

ccuilla
Dec 19, 2003, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by idkew
just hope that if apple adds video to the ipod it a) does NOT affect battery life and usability or b) offers an audio only iPod in addition to the new A/VPod.

i still miss the point of video on a 1" screen.

One poster already pointed out some assumptions. But there are others here. Why assume that a "video iPod" will be the same form factor as the current iPod? This is the most likey assumption to be wrong. Furthermore, maybe there will be an iPod AV that is NOT a music player. Maybe iPod will become a "brand umbrella" much as "Mac" is...there is a wide variety of "Macs" (eMac...iMac...PowerMac). It seems Apple would likely follow a similar model with iPod (ePod...iPod...PowerPod anyone?)

Think bigger. Think about a product "family"...think "walkman".

bensisko
Dec 19, 2003, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by idkew
dvds are quite small, and dvd players are very cheap now. this incarnationation makes no sense. not to mention expensive and time consuming. (ripping dvds.)

Yeah... I bet someone said the same thing about CDs not too long ago...

jeffmc425
Dec 19, 2003, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by byamabe
Just wondering if you are really going to invest the time to RIP and transfer those 5 - 10 movies. What happens when you get the ROTK: director's cut the night before your trip to Europe. Are you gonna spend the night baby sitting the RIP and transfer?

That is assuming that you are getting the content from a DVD. However, if you look how iTunes Music Store does it, you get the songs in the format already for the device. It makes sense to have an iTunes Video Store with movies already transcoded/formatted for the device. Makes it clean, and makes it manageable.

wordmunger
Dec 19, 2003, 12:43 PM
Who says this is about movies? What about adding visuals to the music function of the iPod? All the sudden one of the drawbacks of the iPod--that you don't get cover art/liner notes--becomes a feature: buy the album from ITMS (as opposed to just one track) and get a 5-minute interview with band members, a music video, all the song lyrics, and a bunch of still photos, all playable on your iPod's new color screen.

bousozoku
Dec 19, 2003, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by copperpipe
Get yourself the 12" powerbook...

Sure, I can also see the 12 inch PowerBook as a replacement for GameBoy Advance SP. Yeah, just flip open your 12 inch PowerBook anywhere and start playing games or video. Uh huh.

AmigoMac
Dec 19, 2003, 12:46 PM
Sometimes I would like to take a look at my family pictures, specially when I'm traveling... and of course our home videos, no movies, maybe I would like but it will take a lot of GB all together... Apple, you have the answer... Sure they have already some 80 GB pods in cupertino...

iPod A/V , Power-pod?, photopod ? (I don't want to do a topic from these names) ... are just that, names...

But still think about my pics in that little white box...;)

truedat
Dec 19, 2003, 12:52 PM
I had heard that the iPod was selling well this holdiay season and today I observed it first-hand. Went into Compusmart in Toronto (one of the bigger chains that sells Macs here) and saw 5 people buy iPods in the 15 minutes I was there. I overheard the store manager say that they were the only one in the city who had iPods and that the remaining 9 that they had would be gone by this afternoon. Hopefully this translates into a good sales quarter and boosts my AAPL shares in January.

Belly-laughs
Dec 19, 2003, 01:08 PM
The Oxford Dictionary has the following description of the word "pod":

a usu long thin case containing seeds that develops from the flowers of various plants, esp peas and beans

In other words, a pod contains the next generation of plants and the survival of the above mentioned species. So is it not natural to think that in the everchanging world of consumer electronics, our favourite pod will have to continue to mutate in order to stay ahead of it΄s competitors? Find fresh nutritious fields never layed hands (or roots) on by others?

The iPod showed everyone else where to go, now it΄s time to move on and create new conceptions of the letter "i".

Mr.Hey
Dec 19, 2003, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by AmigoMac
Sometimes I would like to take a look at my family pictures, specially when I'm traveling... and of course our home videos, no movies, maybe I would like but it will take a lot of GB all together

Agree, but family? why not hot girls(WooHoo) pics :D ;) .

As to the size of these vids I think thats what h.263 is for. It won't be full DVD quality much like AAC (nor is Mp3 high quality) but its good for your home stereo, computer, maybe even a small TV the size of a computer screen(30" Apple cinema display!!!) . This makes the computer more centralized for the digital hub concept. Its a shame Apples not going with h.264 it would have been the high quality we all want in a more compact size.

ccuilla
Dec 19, 2003, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by truedat
I had heard that the iPod was selling well this holdiay season and today I observed it first-hand. Went into Compusmart in Toronto (one of the bigger chains that sells Macs here) and saw 5 people buy iPods in the 15 minutes I was there. I overheard the store manager say that they were the only one in the city who had iPods and that the remaining 9 that they had would be gone by this afternoon. Hopefully this translates into a good sales quarter and boosts my AAPL shares in January.

The Apple (on-line) Store won't ship any more until after Christmas. Wife still bought one for me. Hopefully Apple forecasted demand well and isn't "leaving too many dollars as the door" (lost sales) because of no stock.

alandail
Dec 19, 2003, 01:17 PM
The iPod already has the ability to store your iPhoto library, but has no way to view the library.

I'd love an iPod that adds a video out port for doing slide shows. I'm not even sure they need another port as you can do video over firewire. Take the iPod and hook it up to a tv and view photos. Think about when you're visiting relatives. No need to drag a computer along to show them your latest pictures or home movies, just hook your iPod up to your TV.

And what I'd really love to see is an iPod or something similar that can handle HDTV complete with multi-channel digital sound. There currently isn't a good way to own an HDTV movie. An iPod that supported HDTV could go for $999 easy - imagine a video version of the iTunes music store. The download times would be longer, but you could buy a movie during the day and watch it that evening.

ITR 81
Dec 19, 2003, 01:18 PM
Think about it we've got a photo reader but you can't even view the pics.
To me this adding album cover art and graphics would be first part of the vPod.

Eventually they will allow use to store DV footage we just shot or allow us to store DVD's so we can just hook it up to the AV ports on a TV to view them.

If they ever make broadband over powerlines a std we could also see a DVD DL store. But I would say a majority of the pop. would have to be on broadband before that happens and alot of pop. is still not broadband.

alandail
Dec 19, 2003, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by ccuilla
The Apple (on-line) Store won't ship any more until after Christmas. Wife still bought one for me. Hopefully Apple forecasted demand well and isn't "leaving too many dollars as the door" (lost sales) because of no stock.

That's odd - I ordered 2 personalized iPods tuesday from the Apple store, they shipped yesterday (from China), and are arriving today.

I just checked, the Apple store says the 40 gig models are available before Christmas if you don't want them personalized.

I think the issue is simply they are selling them as fast as they can build them and there aren't many shipping days left before christmas.

ccuilla
Dec 19, 2003, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by alandail
That's odd - I ordered 2 personalized iPods tuesday from the Apple store, they shipped yesterday (from China), and are arriving today.

I just checked, the Apple store says the 40 gig models are available before Christmas if you don't want them personalized.

I think the issue is simply they are selling them as fast as they can build them and there aren't many shipping days left before christmas.

Just went there and see:

"Delivery available AFTER 12/25"

as well as:

"Personalized iPod delivery available AFTER 12/25"

For all models (well, the 40GB says 12/24.)

Perhaps different story for different countries?

LethalWolfe
Dec 19, 2003, 01:31 PM
Hopefully this means the iPod will have a/v i/o and act as a VCR type device and not be used to view the video. I think, currently, having a color screen and video playback on the iPod has too many cons and not enough pros. But if they do make a device that you can watch videos on I hope it is a seperate product than the iPod and not a replacement.


Lethal

splashman
Dec 19, 2003, 01:42 PM
Apple (and more importantly, Steve) isn't into making gadgets. A video player with a 1.5" screen is most definitely a gadget -- i.e., the appeal is limited to geeks. Apple makes products that are useful and usable by the masses.

To be useful, the screen of a video player would have to be much larger, much brighter, full-color, and much higher resolution.

First, Apple will never increase the size of the iPod, unless it's by a few millimeters. They're smart enough to realize that size (small size, that is) matters. Really.

Second, third and fourth, a much larger, much brighter, full-color screen will suck power like Monica Lewinsky. You'll end up with an product that does nothing well.

At some point, I expect Apple to add video-out, so you can view photos and DV on a TV. THAT would be useful, and very feasible.

It's always possible they could be designing a self-contained video player as a completely separate product that is much larger. It would still be a gadget, though, with very limited appeal, so I'd bet against it, at least in the next few years.

And to those who are thinking they'll play Tony Hawk on an iPod AV, I say this: Hahahahaha. The processor in the iPod doesn't have a tenth of the muscle necessary, even at reduced resolution. A processor that could do it would eat the battery while the splash screen was still up. I don't have TH, but based on other 3-D games, I'd guess you couldn't even fit it on a 40MB hard drive.

iChan
Dec 19, 2003, 01:47 PM
give it another year or two when download speeds are twice the speed of wheat they are today and the movie store would become very feasible

walkingmac
Dec 19, 2003, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by bensisko
...The video iPod does not mean viewing videos ON the iPod, rather FROM the iPod. The video iPod will come with A/V Out to connect to a TV or a monitor so that you can use the iPod as a remote control of sorts to view video contained on the hard drive.

I agree with you to a degree that this report does not particularly mean anything, and could be directed anywhere. But, I for one have been really hoping and looking to see if apple will once again return to the PDA market/or upgrade their iPod to incorporate a richer complement of features that we see other portables including just to get some edge over the iPod. If the iPod DOES NOT start to do so IT WILL loose ground.

Understand, I realize that there are people who would only use a device like the iPod of strictly there music, GREAT! By all means continue doing so. What I am throwing out here is the concept of (which i have stated before in a much older forum on the iPod) a ProPod &/or iPodAV. An iPod that (either model concept here... just throwing out ideas) can record at higher (near or at CD) quality. Upload your DVD's legally utilizing your time shifting rights, &/or Apple develop a great way to compress your dvd's into a protected format that can be uploaded as well to your iPod. Here is where the differences start. Some are saying that they SHOULD NOT have a way to watch these movies on the player itself, rather connect to your TV via any number of connection ideas. Some are saying that they SHOULD be able to view the movies on the player (ya... it would definitely need to be redesigned with a larger screen) and probably (most definitely) have the ability to play these movies on your TV as well. The rest are saying that the whole idea is terrible and should never happen (i'm gunna group those people somewhere.... else... for now).

Personally, I lean more on the concept that we SHOULD be able to watch these movies on the player. Think about it. WHAT IS THE POINT of having these movies there if you can't view them when you want to. That is no different then having the actual DVD with you, besides it sitting in a nicer looking case and taking up less space. Those factors alone will not bring people to buy the new player with these features. I'll carry them in a case before that. This does bering us to another place though. If Apple does go the route of incorporating video into the iPod, it will need and get a redesign. Something with a larger color screen and maybe a modified interface. What does that sound like? 3-5 inch color screen, music and video capabilities, calendar, notes, games, audio recording, 40 (60) GB hard drive, built-in battery? All you need is a slick portable Mac OS and we have the newton reborn (or something else.. ya ya ya)

And you thought the iPod was huge. This little box would lead the market and shape all kinds of changes in the markets it would have it's hands in. Understand as well, I am not an aviator of ALL-IN-ONE devises. But the reason that your current iPods support notes, calendar, and voice recordings is it just makes sense to be in your portable life line (i still think keeping your camera and phone separate is the best).

These are just my thoughts/opinions, whats yours?

Trowaman
Dec 19, 2003, 02:04 PM
k, let's take a loot at this. We got that sidekick thing AOL is making which allows for anywhere instant messaging. In other worlds we got things coming together and profucts allowig to combine with other products. The new iPods would have a slot for iSights to connets to iPods. This could be for 2 features.
A) Your iPod is not a video camera. I could use the iSight on this "poratble hard drive" to hold video and save it.
B) This would be a later 5th gen. idea, but portable iChat AV. If Apple's making a phone this could run on their phone plan. Portable anywhere video chat. It seems obvious when you think about it. I mean, Jobs even said they weren't making a movie store.

Phobophobia
Dec 19, 2003, 02:06 PM
Mr. Hey, it is called the "PSP", not the portable PS2. And if anything, it is a portable playstation.

idkew
Dec 19, 2003, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by walkingmac

These are just my thoughts/opinions, whats yours?

You are missing several points.
• How long does it take to decode a dvd and rencode into a new format?
• What happends to battery life with a larger screen and more processing occuring?
• Who would want this when for a bit over $150 you can get a portable dvd player with a 5" screen?
• What would the machine cost? Remember the 40GB iPod ALREADY costs $500. Adding all the hardware and new software may DOUBLE the price.
• Don't we already have an all-in-one deivce? It is called an iBook. Get one with all those features for around $1,000. Do everything you listed, plus, you can do MORE.

The iPod does need some updating. It needs high quality, LOSSLESS recording. Better battery life. A better memory card reader. Maybe video out. Many different ideas can be added without sacrificing the small size and portability of the iPod.

idkew
Dec 19, 2003, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by Trowaman

B) This would be a later 5th gen. idea, but portable iChat AV. If Apple's making a phone this could run on their phone plan. Portable anywhere video chat. It seems obvious when you think about it. I mean, Jobs even said they weren't making a movie store.

Until 3G is all over the US, this will never happen. The current wireless infrastructure is not NEAR quick enough for video confrencing.

uberman42
Dec 19, 2003, 02:13 PM
I think apple is gunning for a successor to the PDA. We all know that apple will not make a PDA. But something better. Great competitor to upper end Clies and Pocket PCs. All they need to do is add that iSight CCD and hmmm...

technocoy
Dec 19, 2003, 02:20 PM
arguments against it are irrelevant.

it used to take 45 min to burn a cd. people still copied their friends cds.

with next year bringing 8x and higher DVD speeds the ripping will only get faster.

and instead of it ripping to the hard-drive, there might be an option to rip directly to the iPod. cut out the redundant copying.

and besides, with apple all anti-piracy now, they probably don't care how long it takes you to rip your friends anime collection, they are making it to put your iMovies and quicktimes and such. and there will just be that side benefit of being able to have your Divx (or new apple codec) versions of your own DVDs on the pod.

also, in reference to the screen size, i agree that it will be similar to a tivo type device that you can carry your movies from screen to screen, but you will also be able to view your movies and photos ont he built in screen (and to say no one will ever watch anything on a screen that small is very much your own opinion, as they sell millions of tiny hand-held t.v.'s every year.)

just my opinion.

technocoy

copacabana
Dec 19, 2003, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by Lanbrown
Could you then please write a job posting that would not give it away?


Easy: Just leave the "iPod" part away.

ddbean
Dec 19, 2003, 02:35 PM
How about Video glasses that plug into iPod to watch movies in full screen mode? Kinda an individual iVideo player. earbuds would be attached to glasses for sound.

ccuilla
Dec 19, 2003, 02:36 PM
I read somewhere, sometime ago, that Apple was pursuing a strategy in their portable devices that goes something like this:

- Shrink the iBook down smaller and smaller

- increase the power of the iPod

At some point, they meet.

This seems interesting and somewhat sensible.

Clearly as along as the keyboard is required, there will be a (minimum) size on laptops...but I can imagine them getting thinner, lighter, trim away any extra millimeters and ounces where they can. Work on battery life. Work on sleep/wake from sleep.

Maybe PDA makes less and less sense.

I think Steve's "sense of the market" for PDAs is right (functionality moving into phones). iPod already has some PDA-like functions (take my calendar and address book with me). Getting beyond that, it starts feeling like I really desire the functionality of a laptop. Just make the thing lighter, thinner, better battery life, etc.

Having said that...the place I am currently working is infested with text pagers. Everyone has them. They use them all the time (heard someone tapping away from one of the bathroom stalls today!) This could be an interesting entree into the enterprise market for Apple.

I also think iPod's greatness derives from its simplicity. While I think that its functionality can be (carefully) extended without sacrificing this (allow me to show off photos of my kids...even on a small screen...and I could be happy).

I agree with earlier posts suggesting that WE (on these boards) are not representative of the "normal" market of consumers. In fact, I'd venture to say that on boards (like this one) there was a collective "thud" heard when Apple originally introduced "only an MP3 player".

Apple is thinking bigger. I suspect they have a "road map" for iPod that goes out several years. I've even speculated that iPod is a "Trojan Horse"...but not quite in the sense so publicly stated by Apple (to get people to buy more Macs)...but instead to become the new hub itself! With new (rumored) things like "Home on iPod" emerging, this theory sounds much more plausible. What is Apple elects to port iCal to Windows...now Windows users have the chance to sync their calendars with iPod too. Maybe iPhoto is next? Suddenly iPod starts looking like a "hub" with this constellation of applications as "spokes".

I think that Apple has begun (maybe a lot longer ago than most people think) to look at themselves differently than a company selling Macs. Something else. But this kind of transition takes time (years) and careful planning and delicate balance. Most revenues come from Mac. I don't kill it. But I begin to move emphasis to something else.

walkingmac
Dec 19, 2003, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by ddbean
How about Video glasses that plug into iPod to watch movies in full screen mode? Kinda an individual iVideo player. earbuds would be attached to glasses for sound.

daddy like!! :D

desdomg
Dec 19, 2003, 02:42 PM
iPod us fine as it is.

Remember Steve saying that the competition "just didn't get it", pointing out that the iPod was a success because of its simpliclity? He went on to describe how its design was an excercise in throwing stuff out not putting unecessary stuff in. It has been refined right down to the core function.

All that iPod needs to stay ahead is to lower the price.

A video iPod would suck - big time. I have a small DV camera. Watching a few seconds of playback is OK, but who would want to watch an entire video on one?

I see more evolutionary changes to the iPod in the future - this home on iPod thing makes sense. And the ability to connect to a TV would be cool to - but no revolution.

Ja Di ksw
Dec 19, 2003, 03:10 PM
well, I'm happy for all the people that are happy about this, but for myself I wouldn't want to watch a movie on a screen that small. I'm happy that they added a recording ability. That's the only thing that was missing from my 1G iPod, and what makes my dockable iPod perfect for me. But anyway, happy for the people who wanted it

rog
Dec 19, 2003, 03:15 PM
I don't think it makes sense until they have 200 GB or so drives that are 1.8" or smaller. One ought to be able to rip a good number of movies to the thing. I'm not holding my breath for this one.

manitoubalck
Dec 19, 2003, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by JoeRadar
[B]5000 songs and 10 movies on my iPod AV?B]

Or the thre LOTR's Films

byamabe
Dec 19, 2003, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by iChan
give it another year or two when download speeds are twice the speed of wheat they are today and the movie store would become very feasible

I don't think download speed is the only barrier to an online movie store similar to iTMS (I would guess the RIAA counterpart in the TV/Film industry is pretty cold blooded), but doubling speeds isn't going to solve any problems.

DVD = 7~9 GB of data
Download today = 1.5 Mbps ~ 540 MB / hour
Download DVD ~ 13 hours for a 7GB DVD

If you want this store to work, better get downloads to around 30 minutes. So you need downloads speeds at least 26x faster.

the_dalex
Dec 19, 2003, 03:32 PM
Give me an iPod that I can use as a portable TiVo to record and playback video through a television or computer. It would have a screen for small-scale playback, RCA inputs and outputs, and a dock with the cable tuner (they're bulky) so I can do home DVR, programmable via bluetooth from my laptop, or with a minimalist built-in interface. Throw in Airport Extreme for the base station and then I can use it from anywhere in my house to stream recorded shows.

This is the answer to the "multimedia PC" trend that people are mistakenly buying into. Keep it as a discrete system so I don't have to hijack my computer just to record video, and let me pull video files off to archive, view, or burn them, giving me complete control. Then, let me rip DVDs in Mpeg4 format to put on it so I can watch at my leisure or plug it into a hotel TV or my grandparent's. I don't care if there is DRM on a ripped DVD, I don't plan to distribute them to anyone else or modify them in any way. I don't want to download movies because my DSL is slow and I prefer to buy them on disc anyway, but if I can rip it, then I have the best of both worlds.

That's what I want. It's an iVid designed to manage my movies and tv shows the way the iPod and iTunes manage my music, with the ability to play them on almost any TV or computer.

JoeRadar
Dec 19, 2003, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by ddbean
How about Video glasses that plug into iPod to watch movies in full screen mode?
Sony had a glasses like this a couple of years ago called the Glasstron (http://www.reviewfinder.com/reviews/glasstron/index.asp) (another review (http://www.steves-digicams.com/glasstron.html))

Generally it did not sell well. Cool idea, though.

greenstork
Dec 19, 2003, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by desdomg
iPod us fine as it is.

Remember Steve saying that the competition "just didn't get it", pointing out that the iPod was a success because of its simpliclity? He went on to describe how its design was an excercise in throwing stuff out not putting unecessary stuff in. It has been refined right down to the core function.

All that iPod needs to stay ahead is to lower the price.

A video iPod would suck - big time. I have a small DV camera. Watching a few seconds of playback is OK, but who would want to watch an entire video on one?

I see more evolutionary changes to the iPod in the future - this home on iPod thing makes sense. And the ability to connect to a TV would be cool to - but no revolution.

You're missing the point entirely. In order for businesses to get people to keep spending money and updating, products like the iPod must evolve. How many electronic gadgets do you own that are the same as they were 10 years ago? Better yet, how many new technologies have found their way into electronic gadgets in the past 10 years. The landscape changes constantly and evolves constatly so that you and me, the consumer, open our wallets.

I have an iPod, I love it, it's simple and great, I couldn't agree with you more about it's utter success from simplicity. Why would I want to buy another iPod? Why do I need to replace it with the same piece of equipment. No doubt Apple is thinking of the same thing.

I would think it would take far more resources (read: advertising) to grow the computer music market than it would to cash in on repeat buyers who are already hooked. How do they do this? Easy, innovate. And with innovation, they not only cash in on the existing market of consumers who are updating their iPods but they also grow the market to new buyers, impressed with all the new functions/gadgets. But I personally think that sitting on their laurels and going nowhere with the iPod is a poor business strategy.

edit: I should qualify my statement by saying that any innovation can't come at the cost of current features. It must be a net positive gain to features, not at the sake of for example, battery life, size, price, etc.

splashman
Dec 19, 2003, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by greenstork
I would think it would take far more resources (read: advertising) to grow the computer music market than it would to cash in on repeat buyers who are already hooked. How do they do this? Easy, innovate. And with innovation, they not only cash in on the existing market of consumers who are updating their iPods but they also grow the market to new buyers, impressed with all the new functions/gadgets. But I personally think that sitting on their laurels and going nowhere with the iPod is a poor business strategy.

Speaking of missing the point . . .

You're equating "innovation" with "feature bloat", a la MS. And you're equating "simplicity" with "sitting on their laurels." Jobs and Apple got it right with the iPod when they equated "innovation" with "simplicity". The iPod was meant to play music and allow easy access to a huge library, and it does that job wonderfully. (Yes, it has other features, but they're basically Easter eggs, not selling points.) With the exception of a few features such as voice recording, adding functionality that moves the iPod away from its core mission will doom it.

Dream on about a device that will do everything well. Personally, I'm hoping Apple will improve the iPod by:
- making it smaller and lighter
- increasing HD capacity
- increasing battery endurance
- adding codecs
- adding built-in voice recording

These are "innovations" that are compatible with its core purpose.

ITR 81
Dec 19, 2003, 03:56 PM
If a video iPod device does surface in the next yr or so it will priced around the same price as the Sony's Video player which is on sale now in Japan for $750.

I think I could swing $750 or so bucks.

Reasons I don't like portable DVD players are:
Most folks already use laptops for this purpose I know I do.

A 10inch screen is not very portable. It's like having a small laptop computer but without the computer.

To get decent good player you still have to pay $500 or more for them. I've seen these $150-$200 portable DVD players and they usually suck in sound and picture quality.

-----------------------------------------------
Give me a hi res 4-5 inch screen and make it play DVD's and I'll buy that sucker in a heartbeat.

Priced at $700-$800.

JoeRadar
Dec 19, 2003, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by desdomg
A video iPod would suck - big time. I have a small DV camera. Watching a few seconds of playback is OK, but who would want to watch an entire video on one?
It could be targeted at the road warrior - plane trips, regular commutes on train or car pooling. Or maybe it could keep the kids happy in the back seat.

Its competition would be the portable DVD players that generally run between $300-$1000. Best Buy is selling about 10 models (link (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=pcmcat13900050018&navHistory=cat00000%2Bcat03000%2Bpcmcat13900050017&type=category&navLevel=4)), and the Good Guys have about a dozen (link (http://www.goodguys.com/srchresults.asp?catky=733455&subcatky2=625942))

There is a market for such devices. And if a hard disk based solution playing MPEG-4 compressed files can get better battery life than DVD bases solution playing MPEG-2, this would give Apple a leg up on all these competitors.

Tie in music playback and (maybe) music video playback, and Apple could have a real advantage.

greenstork
Dec 19, 2003, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by splashman
Speaking of missing the point . . .

You're equating "innovation" with "feature bloat", a la MS. And you're equating "simplicity" with "sitting on their laurels." Jobs and Apple got it right with the iPod when they equated "innovation" with "simplicity". The iPod was meant to play music and allow easy access to a huge library, and it does that job wonderfully. (Yes, it has other features, but they're basically Easter eggs, not selling points.) With the exception of a few features such as voice recording, adding functionality that moves the iPod away from its core mission will doom it.

Dream on about a device that will do everything well. Personally, I'm hoping Apple will improve the iPod by:
- making it smaller and lighter
- increasing HD capacity
- increasing battery endurance
- adding codecs
- adding built-in voice recording

These are "innovations" that are compatible with its core purpose.

We're basically saying the same thing. You're assuming that I don't want all of the same innovations that you want. You're assuming I was some all in one loaded up device, which is an incorrect asumption I never said that.

If you read my edit to the post you quoted, I'm sure it will put things in context here.

Lastly, we're talking about Apple innovation, not Microsoft innovation. My experience to date with Apple products is that when they add features and innovate it usually creates a much cooler product. I wasn't aware that I need to qualify that I was looking at this issue through that lens.

edit: One other HUGE assumption that you are making is that I am advocating doing away with the current iPod as a simple audio device, which I am not. If a video pod came out, I see it as a separate device, albeit related.

splashman
Dec 19, 2003, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by greenstork
We're basically saying the same thing. You're assuming that I don't want all of the same innovations that you want. You're assuming I was some all in one loaded up device, which is an incorrect asumption I never said that.

Correct, you never said that. In fact, you weren't very specific at all.

Given the original topic of this "rumor", and that the majority of the posts are advocating a "kitchen sink" approach to product design, I don't think my assumption was unreasonable.

However, now that you have qualified your assertion, it appears you and I are not in disagreement. Groovy.

JoeRadar
Dec 19, 2003, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by idkew
Remember the 40GB iPod ALREADY costs $500. Adding all the hardware and new software may DOUBLE the price.
• Don't we already have an all-in-one deivce? It is called an iBook. Get one with all those features for around $1,000. Do everything you listed, plus, you can do MORE.
Remember, that $500 iPod configuration will cost about $250 next year. Apple will need something new on the high-end of the line.

I don't think simply growing the hard disk is the right solution. People are going to start having a lot of empty space on their iPods. Video will help sell it, and Apple's ownership of Quicktime will give them an advantage.

You are correct about the iBook as a souped up iPod. Today, an iPod AV with 12 inch screen costs $1100 (as you point out, it goes by the name iBook). [note: Dell's Inspiron 1100 has a 14" screen and DVD player for only $800] Bring the video screen down to 7" for portability, put in a cheaper CPU, less memory, and get rid of other unneccessary circuitry, and in about a year I think Apple could get the price down to $500-$600 -- in the same ball park as today's high-end iPod.

JoeRadar
Dec 19, 2003, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by greenstork
But I personally think that sitting on their laurels and going nowhere with the iPod is a poor business strategy.
I agree. I think the iPod is about to be commoditized. For example Creative has a very iPod-like music player with 50% more hard disk space than Apple's $399 model, and it cost 33% less. Dell has also entered the market with prices that are 1/3 or more less than Apple's.

I don't think there is going to be any profit margin left in a music-only iPod type device within a year's time. It is too easy to duplicate, and too many people are jumping into the market.

FlamDrag
Dec 19, 2003, 04:53 PM
Brainstorming...many kinks exist.

iPod as a digital wallet...
Add an RFID chip...

Before leaving home, drop your grocery list (and some tunes) onto your iPod. While at the grocery store, when you add items to your shopping cart, swipe them by your iPod and they're auto crossed off of your shopping list.

When checking out, choose your preferred credit card from the color screen, press OK, wave it over the card reader and voila! you just bought your groceries. Use it at the soda...er...Pepsi machine the same way.

Save coupons on your iPod as well, redeem them at the register before you pay. You might even pick up some coupons in-store as you shop. Maybe as you pass by items for which you have a coupon, a short sound is emitted by your iPod.

Same with the vending machine. Download some tunes and win a free soda. That coupon goes directly to the iPod and the next time you see a machine...ZAP the free soda is yours.

All while listening to your favorite tunes.

Just like a wallet, whip out your iPod and show your friends wallet sized images - but really short movies - of your kids. Instead of "here's little Billy in his baseball uniform" it's "here's little Billy hitting a home run."

Pictures on the exact size screen that the iPod currently posesses is not a problem for me. In on-the-road digital imaging application, what I'd like the iPod to do is simply PREVIEW the video or digital photo. Hell, if you can put in some sort of basic iMovie editing in there so that I can make BASIC edits (easily done with the current controls) I'd be happy. I'll even pay $50 for that program.

Honestly, none of that is going to happen for awhile, but I wish it would happen sooner.

captain kirk
Dec 19, 2003, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by JoeRadar
I agree. I think the iPod is about to be commoditized. For example Creative has a very iPod-like music player with 50% more hard disk space than Apple's $399 model, and it cost 33% less. Dell has also entered the market with prices that are 1/3 or more less than Apple's.

I don't think there is going to be any profit margin left in a music-only iPod type device within a year's time. It is too easy to duplicate, and too many people are jumping into the market.

This is not the point. At present if a student, colleague, kid at school shows off a new mp3 player that ISN'T an iPod then they have the mickey taken out of them all week. You cannot put a price on the 'cool' factor that the iPOd has and companies like creative can only dream of.
the point about being easy to duplicate is also nonsense as Apple has around 25 patents relating to ipod.

MediaBaron
Dec 19, 2003, 05:14 PM
Maybe an iPod that plays back video isn't so far-fetched. Check-out this Panasonic DVD Recorder. (http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?storeId=11251&catalogId=11005&itemId=65165&catGroupId=11058&modelNo=DMR-E100HS&surfModel=DMR-E100HS) It can record TV programs in MPEG-4 and even record them to SD or PC Cards. So if you had an iPod with a CF Card slot it could be used to data-bank digital photos from cameras, plus playback movies from the Panasonic recorder.

Another thought might be adding a camera to the iPod itself. 40GB is a lot of space to store video movies. The iPod would become a digital videocamera.

Mac User Canada
Dec 19, 2003, 06:44 PM
All you really need is to stretch the iPod so that it can contain a Superdrive.

Now you have a device that can still hold a decent music library and transfer files.

A 40GB harddrive can only hold a few movies so why bother taking the time to download them to it. Simply pop your favourite DVD into the Superdrive and connect it to a display using RCA Composite or S-Video connectors or maybe even HD Component video via an external adapter. And of course let's not rule out some nifty wireless connection to the display.

This really wouldn't be that hard to do either.

Hmmm... an iPod that can burn files to DVDs. Not a bad idea.

And you never know, in a few years display technology may let Apple drop a video screen on its surface for not much extra cost.

Any thoughts??

MUC

splashman
Dec 19, 2003, 06:50 PM
Originally posted by Mac User Canada
All you really need is to stretch the iPod so that it can contain a Superdrive.

Now you have a device that can still hold a decent music library and transfer files.

A 40GB harddrive can only hold a few movies so why bother taking the time to download them to it. Simply pop your favourite DVD into the Superdrive and connect it to a display using RCA Composite or S-Video connectors or maybe even HD Component video via an external adapter. And of course let's not rule out some nifty wireless connection to the display.

This really wouldn't be that hard to do either.

Hmmm... an iPod that can burn files to DVDs. Not a bad idea.

And you never know, in a few years display technology may let Apple drop a video screen on its surface for not much extra cost.

Any thoughts??

MUC

Yes. "Uggghh."

marchawk
Dec 19, 2003, 06:54 PM
I attended a screening at the Laemmle Sunset 5 in Los Angeles of a new movie shot on HD 24P. The entire movie was stored and shown from a 30 Gig Firewire mini hard drive using the Windows Media 9 codec. The movie looked as sharp as any 35mm print I have seen. The bottom line is we have reached point with technology that incredible things can be done and there is only a lack of imagination as to where we are going next. "Cold Mountain" was edited on FinalCut Pro and it can be delivered to a theatre on 30-40 Gig iPod. This is the future. WM9 is only a codec and it is possible that the theatres could get equivalent or better results from QT 6.5.
All they need is Apple to make an effort to show them why QT should be the standard. Microsoft is dedicating very few dollars to this effort and the market is wide open.

RidgyDidge
Dec 19, 2003, 07:06 PM
Think TiVo.

Download last night's recordings. Watch it today when you're sitting on the bus or metro.

RD

Mac User Canada
Dec 19, 2003, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by splashman
Yes. "Uggghh."


Why Uggghh?

Such a product wouldn't displace the existing iPod with its small size and audio only capability.

Before the advent of MP3 players portable CD players were found in abundance. Many are still used today.

What's wrong with a portable DVD player?

MUC

Sol
Dec 19, 2003, 08:26 PM
Originally posted by jeffmc425
...for viewing, a normal iPod screen is just two small (And being a 2 color screen doesn't help). Most likely this would be a 320x240 landscape device, with a pretty good hosrepower RISC chip that does not suck alot of power while going full bore. You want to get 30FPS at at least 500Kbit rate so there is no artifacts, etc in the playback. (Also depends on the transcoding process on the host).

There should be no set frame-rate for movies that would be stored and played back on the vPod but any video sygnals that come out of it should conform to PAL and/or NTSC standards. For example, if the vPod is used for downloadable films I think the frame-rates of the files should be 24 fps and converted on the fly to 25 fps if I connect it to my television (I live in PAL Australia).

I would be more excited about the idea of an iPod that plays video if Apple were to release an application that does for DVDs what iTunes did for Audio CDs. No matter what the geeks say, ripping DVDs is not as easy as it should be yet.

juancarloz
Dec 19, 2003, 09:03 PM
It would be soooo cool if Apple made a Digital camera with a hard drive.
All they have to do is add a camera lens on the back side of the iPod a color screen on the front and wuala! an iCam.
iPod + iSight + PDA + Game + Cell Phone = iWalk

idkew
Dec 19, 2003, 09:59 PM
Originally posted by juancarloz
It would be soooo cool if Apple made a Digital camera with a hard drive.
All they have to do is add a camera lens on the back side of the iPod a color screen on the front and wuala! an iCam.
iPod + iSight + PDA + Game + Cell Phone = iWalk

Why not add a kitchen sink? ATM? 4 Wheels and a Steering Wheel?

The iPod is where it is at b/c of its simplicity, as is Apple. Overcomplicated devices are not part of Apple mission.

Ever notice that Apple has not allowed the average user to use the FULL power of UNIX? There is a simple reason. SIMPLICITY. Apple does not want to burden every user with so many options that they can not make sense of them.

idkew
Dec 19, 2003, 10:03 PM
Originally posted by Sol
I would be more excited about the idea of an iPod that plays video if Apple were to release an application that does for DVDs what iTunes did for Audio CDs. No matter what the geeks say, ripping DVDs is not as easy as it should be yet.

That would be cool. I could set it to shrink a dvd to maybe 500mb-1gb w/o special features. That way I could fly on a jet, and have access to all my dvds, not in the best of quality, but it would suffice, and since the HD could cache lage amounts at a time (i have a gig of ram...), battery life would improve dramatically.

I think the MPAA might have a problem with it though... but i doubt they could stop Apple, afaik it is legal.

iLilana
Dec 19, 2003, 11:31 PM
Originally posted by Toe
Oh yeah. A Mobile IP Video Phone. Now that would be killer.

Combine in a roving User Data storage device and an MP3 player and hopefully a PDA, and I dunno who wouldn't wanna buy that thingy.

And knowing Apple, they'll call it "iPod."

I sure would

JoeRadar
Dec 19, 2003, 11:36 PM
Originally posted by captain kirk
You cannot put a price on the 'cool' factor that the iPOd has and companies like creative can only dream of.
"Coolness" is a fleeting thing. From my perspective, I agree with your position on iPod's coolness right now, but I have been around too long and have seen too many leaders slip. If Apple stagnates with the iPod, it won't be the cool thing for long.

the point about being easy to duplicate is also nonsense as Apple has around 25 patents relating to ipod.
You better tell Creative, Samsung, RCA, Philips, Dell, Toshiba, Rio, Archos, and others about the patents, as they all have disk-based jukeboxes that pretty much do the same thing as the iPod. The music player business is getting very crowded.

I still think Apple's iPod has a comfortable lead, but devices like the NOMAD Jukebox Zen Xtra (http://www.nomadworld.com/products/Jukebox_ZenXtra/) are getting closer.

By the way, if anyone wants to look at a iPod-like device with video capability, check out the Archos AV300 (http://www.archos.com/products/av300_series.html). I don't like the form factor, but they are trying to push the envelope.

juancarloz
Dec 19, 2003, 11:39 PM
Originally posted by idkew
Why not add a kitchen sink? ATM? 4 Wheels and a Steering Wheel?

The iPod is where it is at b/c of its simplicity, as is Apple. Overcomplicated devices are not part of Apple mission.

Ever notice that Apple has not allowed the average user to use the FULL power of UNIX? There is a simple reason. SIMPLICITY. Apple does not want to burden every user with so many options that they can not make sense of them.

Whell the iPod right now is an
MP3 Player
Portable Drive
PDA of a sort Calendar, Contacs
Games

Apple wants to add video Hmmmmm
you will need a color screen Hmmmmm
How about a camera lens an you have Apples QuickTake

So maybe they won't add an iPhone

as for UNIX it is BSD
Have you seen this site?
http://www.macosxhints.com/

idkew
Dec 19, 2003, 11:55 PM
Originally posted by juancarloz
Whell the iPod right now is an
MP3 Player
Portable Drive
PDA of a sort Calendar, Contacs
Games

Apple wants to add video Hmmmmm
you will need a color screen Hmmmmm
How about a camera lens an you have Apples QuickTake

So maybe they won't add an iPhone

as for UNIX it is BSD
Have you seen this site?
http://www.macosxhints.com/

i think we are looking at this differently. out of the box, changing no prefs, the ipod only plays audio.

you CAN add on functionality, which I am not against. I am against it being built in, by default. The games are useless in my view, the calendar is also. I use the drive space, but only as a 3rd backup, as I do not carry my cord with me. who does?

if apple (or a thrid party) wanted to make the ability to dock a large screen with a hardware decoder and such to the ipod, i would see no problem. i just don't want frivilous crap getting in the way of the ipods number one task; to play music. same goes for anything else. the iTrip is a great example of this idea.

besides, a lense would have to be quite large to get any quality from it. this is one reason camera phones suck. it takes a lot of glass to capture light in a quality way. if someone made a digicam that docked an ipod as its media, cool, just don't build it in.

and yes, i know OS X is BSD UNIX. I don't see your point? Gettting a hint from that site means it is not built in (aka a button in a pref file). you must open terminal and change stuff. something the average joe does not do.

juancarloz
Dec 20, 2003, 12:27 AM
Originally posted by idkew
i think we are looking at this differently. out of the box, changing no prefs, the ipod only plays audio.

you CAN add on functionality, which I am not against. I am against it being built in, by default. The games are useless in my view, the calendar is also. I use the drive space, but only as a 3rd backup, as I do not carry my cord with me. who does?

if apple (or a thrid party) wanted to make the ability to dock a large screen with a hardware decoder and such to the ipod, i would see no problem. i just don't want frivilous crap getting in the way of the ipods number one task; to play music. same goes for anything else. the iTrip is a great example of this idea.

besides, a lense would have to be quite large to get any quality from it. this is one reason camera phones suck. it takes a lot of glass to capture light in a quality way. if someone made a digicam that docked an ipod as its media, cool, just don't build it in.

and yes, i know OS X is BSD UNIX. I don't see your point? Gettting a hint from that site means it is not built in (aka a button in a pref file). you must open terminal and change stuff. something the average joe does not do.

OK I agree on simplicity
there will be an iPod
and also an icam
and an iphone

ITR 81
Dec 20, 2003, 01:18 AM
Originally posted by Mac User Canada
Why Uggghh?

Such a product wouldn't displace the existing iPod with its small size and audio only capability.

Before the advent of MP3 players portable CD players were found in abundance. Many are still used today.

What's wrong with a portable DVD player?

MUC

I could see this too but the superdrive would have to be miniaturized and the DVD-R's would have to be 3inch variety.
This means the discs could only store about 3GB per disc. Also a ESP like shocking absorbing would also have to be added to keep the disc from skipping.

This basically what the Sony video MP3 player does. But it uses it's own special media discs.

More then likely the next iPods will have 50 or 60GB HD's and by end of the yr they will be nearing 80GB probably.

By 05' will probably see the iPod hit 100GB if not over that mark.
I simiply doubt by this time anyone would could fill a 100GB HD with just music.
This would be a good time to release a video iPod.

I have 40GB iPod now and I've only so far filled up 11GB's of it with music.

iChan
Dec 20, 2003, 07:34 AM
Originally posted by byamabe
I don't think download speed is the only barrier to an online movie store similar to iTMS (I would guess the RIAA counterpart in the TV/Film industry is pretty cold blooded), but doubling speeds isn't going to solve any problems.

DVD = 7~9 GB of data
Download today = 1.5 Mbps ~ 540 MB / hour
Download DVD ~ 13 hours for a 7GB DVD

If you want this store to work, better get downloads to around 30 minutes. So you need downloads speeds at least 26x faster.

I think if apple actually make this store, they should pre-compress these movies for us, s Divx nowadays is probably 95% as good as DVD in terms of quality...

my cousin, who is quite a videophile was really impressed with the video quality when he showed some compression he did... using Divx, you could get a movies down to about 1GB, 700MB maybe with further improvement to the codecs...

download today, 1.5Mbps, Download Movie, 1 hour for 1GB movie.

30 minutes if speed is doubled...

if you read my post again, which wasn't very long, I didn't say anything about downloading DVDs... that would be silly, you don't see many people downloading unconcompressed CD from the iTMS do you?...

the reason for us having DVDs in the first place is that when it comes to traditional consumer electronics, standards are needed, without standards, there will be loads of incompatible formats floating around...

anyway, in an iTMovieS situation, there is no reason whatsoever to stick with the DVD, what, with computers being the adaptable beasts they are...

yuri_koval
Dec 20, 2003, 07:41 AM
Next generation cell-phones ?

Jacknusa
Dec 20, 2003, 07:57 AM
I didn't wade through all the posts, so maybe this has been covered...

I think what really makes iPod work, is iTunes... so... any development leading up to a video iPod should also bring a new iApp. Someting perhaps like a software Tivo...

And this brings up another point, I don't think a video iPod really would be meant to watch "DVD movies", but think if, by simply docking your video iPod every evening to your "tvTunes" equipped Mac you would have Letterman, Leno, Conan, and that sucky forurth guy + the first two hours of the Today show, loaded and ready for your Morning commute.

To enjoy this type of programming you don't need full screen glory.

that's my 2cents

Jack

alandail
Dec 20, 2003, 09:59 AM
a couple of comments

first - it makes absolutely no sense to even consider a dvd drive in an iPod. Remember, the iPod gets it's content off of the computer and the computers already have DVD drives.

I really don't see Apple working on an iPod with a big color screen. If anything, they'd be working on ways to make the iPod smaller and lighter, not bigger and heavier.

Any video support for the iPod would likely be in terms of connecting the iPod to a television. That makes sense - they could even do it in the form of a new dock with video out.

The iPod already syncs with iPhoto - extending that integration makes perfect sense.

backdraft
Dec 20, 2003, 11:19 AM
Well Apple better get to moving! Sony's ready: http://techdigestuk.typepad.com/tech_digest/2003/11/sonys_pvp_arriv.html
-backdraft

Ktulu
Dec 20, 2003, 11:21 AM
Just a thought but, as far as I have read, no one has considered a small handheld video camera. Obviously the iPod would have to change in form a bit but the small screen on the front would make for an adequate view finder, most ar not much bigger than 2" on regular camcorders. The new job posting for a compression 'expert' would allow for on the fly compression-(with a bit of a buffer before writing to the HD) as video comes in. The lens could be along the same lines as the iSight and placed on the back. Make it a bit thicker-(after all it isn't an iPod as we know it any more) and you have a very nice Apple branded still picture/video camera that could fit in your pocket and have the best syncing with iPhoto/FCP/FCE than any other manufacturer on the merket.

Just my thought, maybe I'm crazy, but it would be very cool!:D

ceriess
Dec 20, 2003, 12:49 PM
An OLED screen that can roll up. Say it's about the length of an ipod, and can roll open into a wide format screen. It comes with a collapsible stand to hang it on. Christ..I'd buy me one of these until the 6th gen model that plugs into my spine comes out!

Mac User Canada
Dec 20, 2003, 01:23 PM
What most here seem to be overlooking is the fact that with today's iPod you use an external device to listen to the music. Either you connect a set of headphones or you connect your iPod to your stereo. You don't listen to music with the iPod itself. It doesn't have a built-in speaker.

Similarly, the same applies to any attempt to store and play back video. Yes, you could add a small screen like the Sony device but would it be worth the extra expense? To some, yes, to others no. Ok, you could have two models, one with and one without. Not really that big a deal.

The real problem is that it simply isn't practical to download a movie to the iPod with current DVD encoding. So you have two choices, either change the encoding or don't download, read external media. The cheapest external media is currently a DVD. End of story.

I agree that to expand the iPod to accomodate a built-in DVD player is not ideal. Smaller, lighter and longer battery life are noble goals. But realistly speaking I could live with it if it expanded the iPod's usability.

I also agree that it would be better if Apple were to create a new compression format that would permit movies to be downloaded as easily as music files are now but I doubt that Apple is there yet. That doesn't mean I don't wish they aren't. In this case all they'd have to do is add some firmware and some connectors which shouldn't increase the size of the iPod very much if at all.

But an iPod that lets me record and play back TV but not movies isn't really of much use to me.

MUC

danbirchall
Dec 20, 2003, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by marchawk
I attended a screening at the Laemmle Sunset 5 in Los Angeles of a new movie shot on HD 24P. The entire movie was stored and shown from a 30 Gig Firewire mini hard drive using the Windows Media 9 codec... WM9 is only a codec and it is possible that the theatres could get equivalent or better results from QT 6.5.

Well, for starters, they don't need QT 6.5 - its improvements deal primarily with low-bandwidth mobile applications. :)

But they could certainly get very good results from Pixlet, which has been in QuickTime since 6.4. I think Apple pulled the file after I downloaded it, but when Panther first launched, they had a 116-megabyte, 36-second 960x540 quarter-HDTV pixlet clip of space shuttle stuff from NASA, post-produced by HiDefOne/CBS. Very nice quality. The bit rate works out to something 12-15GB/hour of video, so you could put a decently long movie on a top-end iPod.

GregA
Dec 20, 2003, 05:53 PM
As my parents have a brilliant Plasma screen in their home, they'd love to play photo libraries (at the highest resolution) onto that TV. Any background music would have to be in parallel (don't want to miss pictures if we skip a song!). That doesn't have to be portable though- an Apple Tivo device would be closer and could also cover home movies etc (or iTunes with video clips).

As for portability - I guess if you could walk into someone's house, place the *Pod on a TV and show home snaps or iMovies it would be popular. An AV cable then (firewire would be better in the long term, or wireless). Apple now has expanded Quicktime for use on mobile devices so a vPod may be in the cards.

billyboy
Dec 20, 2003, 07:09 PM
Steve Jobs specifically differentiated between using your computer with your face against the screen, and watching a TV from your armchair. It seems highly improbable the iPod is going to be given a snazzy battery sapping screen for any reason especially watching movies in the gym.

For video I would go with the idea of using the pod to store movie files or photos downloaded from your computer, and make the pod able to plug and play on a TV via DVD players

desdomg
Dec 21, 2003, 05:29 AM
I agree. The iPod is just that a pod - a device for storing data (primarily music). You can store video on the iPod now if you want, no need to wait for 4G - what is lacking is a video out port and playback capability in the iPod itself.

Knowing Apple, and their obsession with quality, they would opt for playback on an external device - TV or LCD panel - and not the tiny control screen of the iPod if they were to expand the video capabilities of the iPod. Playback on the control screen would just be gimmicky.

Perhaps this is why the home on iPod feature got pulled - Apple realized that to implement this feature they would have to really go for it and allow video playback as well.

P.S. That video walkman will suck big time. I have one of those LCD mini-TV things, with a similar sized screen. Total gimmick, never use it. The screen is far too small for proper viewing. OK as a viewfinder on a camcorder, but sucks as a sit back and enjoy the movie experience.

I think those LCD screens on the back of Boeing777 airline seats are about as small as you would want to go for video playback.

iChan
Dec 21, 2003, 06:16 AM
Originally posted by desdomg
I agree. The iPod is just that a pod - a device for storing data (primarily music). You can store video on the iPod now if you want, no need to wait for 4G - what is lacking is a video out port and playback capability in the iPod itself.

Knowing Apple, and their obsession with quality, they would opt for playback on an external device - TV or LCD panel - and not the tiny control screen of the iPod if they were to expand the video capabilities of the iPod. Playback on the control screen would just be gimmicky.

Perhaps this is why the home on iPod feature got pulled - Apple realized that to implement this feature they would have to really go for it and allow video playback as well.

P.S. That video walkman will suck big time. I have one of those LCD mini-TV things, with a similar sized screen. Total gimmick, never use it. The screen is far too small for proper viewing. OK as a viewfinder on a camcorder, but sucks as a sit back and enjoy the movie experience.

I think those LCD screens on the back of Boeing777 airline seats are about as small as you would want to go for video playback.

I'm not sure you really understand the concept behind the Home on iPod feature. This feature is not going to let you view the files on your iPod at all... as an interpretation of the name might suggest...

it merely allows you to carry your home directory around with you on your ipod, invisibly until you plug the iPod into ANOTHER Mac, that is where you will be able to view your files...

This Home on iPod feature isn't just for iPods either, they are for any Firewire HD... even those without screen. (which is probably all of them)

PS. you use your LCD tv as your camcorders viewfinder??

iChan
Dec 21, 2003, 06:20 AM
Originally posted by ceriess
An OLED screen that can roll up. Say it's about the length of an ipod, and can roll open into a wide format screen. It comes with a collapsible stand to hang it on. Christ..I'd buy me one of these until the 6th gen model that plugs into my spine comes out!

OLED are never going to be able to roll up

tny
Dec 21, 2003, 08:22 AM
Originally posted by idkew
just hope that if apple adds video to the ipod it a) does NOT affect battery life and usability or b) offers an audio only iPod in addition to the new A/VPod.

i still miss the point of video on a 1" screen.
Look on the side of the iBook. See that little jack that looks like a headphone jack? It's a video jack. Now, imagine one of those on the top of an iPod. Plug it into the nearest TV. Maybe add an iPod accessory of a small pad-style monitor.

McMike
Dec 21, 2003, 08:54 AM
Maybe Apple should fit a color touch-screan as big as the front of the iPod on which you would have all the bottoms and the scroll? Someking of a VIRTUAL SCROLL...
This would make a 'Palm iPod AV'
I mean just a thougt...

desdomg
Dec 21, 2003, 11:43 AM
iChan: I certainly do understand the concept behind the Home on iPod feature. That was what my point was all about. i.e. The iPod carries stuff around. My point was that if Apple where gonna let you carry around video and let you play it back on say external LCD panels or TVs then perhaps that is why the holdup on the home on iPod feature - although personally I doubt it.

My camcorder has an LCD screen that is about the same size as the LCD screen on my sony mini-TV. OK for a camcorder viewfinder and menu but sucks for anything more intensive than reviewing short clips.

desdomg
Dec 21, 2003, 11:50 AM
PS. And if Apple are going to allow the iPod to act as a video playback device that plugs into external monitors then they are gonna have to workout how to fit a video card in there unless it is to be hosed in a separate box a la Belkin card reader.

idkew
Dec 21, 2003, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by desdomg
PS. And if Apple are going to allow the iPod to act as a video playback device that plugs into external monitors then they are gonna have to workout how to fit a video card in there unless it is to be hosed in a separate box a la Belkin card reader.

true, but for regualar tv signals, you don't need much of a video card. the resolution is 720 x 480 if i remember correctly. not a lot of info to crunch considering what modern video cards deal with (especially for gameing.) thsi would need no polygone shader...

Mord
Dec 21, 2003, 03:40 PM
why do you think that the video bit is for veiwing I think that it will be a component that allows for pluging ones ipod into a dv camrea and storring the video it may have a coluer screen for playback thogh only to check the data not as a viable media player being able to connect ones ipod to a DV camra would be a usefull feature and not to hard to add (takeing for granted that the HD can keep up with input of real time video?).

am I crazy? or is that likely I would use that feature

Ibjr
Dec 21, 2003, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by idkew
You are missing several points.
• How long does it take to decode a dvd and rencode into a new format?


Okay. This is insane, apple won't provide software to DeCSS the DVD, and re-encode it into a a mpeg4 format. The MPAA isn't a behemoth they will touch. And DeCSSing a DVD (Yes Noun to Verb Power!) takes only a few minutes
.

GregA
Dec 21, 2003, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by Hector
why do you think that the video bit is for veiwing I think that it will be a component that allows for pluging ones ipod into a dv camrea and storring the video it may have a coluer screen for playback thogh only to check the data not as a viable media player being able to connect ones ipod to a DV camra would be a usefull feature and not to hard to add (takeing for granted that the HD can keep up with input of real time video?).

am I crazy? or is that likely I would use that feature Remember a single DV cassette takes around 13GBs. There is no point uploading the tape (sure with a good processor you could compress it, but people like having quality - I mean do you film your home video in Long Play or the higher quality Short Play?)

For those talking about battery life - playing a video MUST use more battery, since the iPod saves battery by seldom accessing the hard disk - loading up songs to memory. If it has to load things 10 times bigger for playback (or 200 times bigger for raw DV!), the amount of movement on the hard disk goes up substantially.

[edit: found more accurate miniDV 13GB figure.]

idkew
Dec 21, 2003, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by Ibjr
Okay. This is insane, apple won't provide software to DeCSS the DVD, and re-encode it into a a mpeg4 format. The MPAA isn't a behemoth they will touch. And DeCSSing a DVD (Yes Noun to Verb Power!) takes only a few minutes
.


There is nothing illegal about copying a DVD for personal use. I only tried it once, but doesn't DeCSSing (as you termed it) take quite a while? I sure remember it taking several hours... but maybe it was because i was also re-encoding... it was a while ago.

Apple has already displayed its willinngness to embrace controversial technology with iTunes, sharing, and the iPod.

danielgrenell
Dec 22, 2003, 12:54 AM
just thinking of a name... how about vPod, get it video iPod? and of course the ipod would still be on the market for people who don't want the vPod.

yamabushi
Dec 22, 2003, 05:46 AM
Originally posted by wordmunger
Who says this is about movies? What about adding visuals to the music function of the iPod? All the sudden one of the drawbacks of the iPod--that you don't get cover art/liner notes--becomes a feature: buy the album from ITMS (as opposed to just one track) and get a 5-minute interview with band members, a music video, all the song lyrics, and a bunch of still photos, all playable on your iPod's new color screen.

I think that an iPod with a small color screen would be a nice addition to the iPod lineup but should not completely replace the more power efficient screens currently used. Actually music visualizations such as those in iTunes, WMP, or WinAmp that sync with the music you are playing would be very popular and eye catching. Imagine if you are on the subway in Tokyo and you have nothing to look at but ads and other commuters. When your eye catches the dancing colors on someones Color iPod you think to yourself, "I wish I had one of those right now."

I also wish that Apple would design light, compact, and stylish video goggles. Many other companies tried a few years ago but none of them were able to provide excellent picture quality in a light and stylish package. I tested about ten different models and wasn't satisified with any of them.

An apple branded glove based input device would be great for using the goggles with a laptop or desktop computer.

drizahy4
Dec 22, 2003, 08:33 AM
IPOD w/ Camera color display mmmmmmmmmm......

jettredmont
Dec 22, 2003, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by arn
I guess you have to hire people with the right skills.... eh?

arn

Strangely enough, other companies do so by advertising under "dummy" company names, or "unnamed" company. Or exclusively through NDA'd head hunters.

Apple has many tools at its disposal to keep such job searches secret. In fact, Apple has done this in the recent past. It IS nteresting that Apple isn't doing so here.

Similar to the Windows iTunes positions, I think Apple is using job posts to fuel misinformation.

moof
Dec 23, 2003, 03:01 PM
I travel on planes multiple times each week and have found DIVX and my powerbook to the the greatest excape of all on a plane. Ripping DVDs to DIVX currently is a pain in the ass on the mac although it's quite a nice payoff. If apple can create an iApp that can rip DIVX and then sync it with an iPod AV that has a new formfactor (obviously this would be required), I would be stoked. Sure I have the powerbook, but i'd just love the software for DIVX ripping. I've heard DIVX compatible DVD players and recorders are supposed to swamp the market next year similar to how most CD players can handle MP3 CDs currently. DIVX is bound to explode the way mp3 did. With high speed internet connections and now a wireless digital video spec in the mix, it's going to have to happen sooner or later. I hope Apple makes it as elegant and easy as itunes. It's only a matter of time.

desdomg
Dec 23, 2003, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by jettredmont
Strangely enough, other companies do so by advertising under "dummy" company names, or "unnamed" company. Or exclusively through NDA'd head hunters.

Apple has many tools at its disposal to keep such job searches secret. In fact, Apple has done this in the recent past. It IS nteresting that Apple isn't doing so here.

Similar to the Windows iTunes positions, I think Apple is using job posts to fuel misinformation.

Moof, try suprnova.