Sony suffers a minor setback/MS gains an arguably might-be-large-but-maybe-not win

[sikkinixx]

FFXIII is coming to the 360 according to the MS E3 conference.

Megaton announcement!



edit: A NeoGaf poster made a good point, there is no mention of the game on 360 is Japan, only NA/Europe. Sony is keeping it the their homeland?

[2nyRiggz]

I saw it coming when that dude walked back onstage...LOL funny. This will have the fanboys going nuts for months...now We'll have to wait and see whats Sony next move.

The way the dude at SE put it....looks like Sony gets 1st dibs on it though and the other titles aren't exclusive.


MS Conference was "Meh" up until that time.


Bless

[sikkinixx]

I wonder how this will/has effected development on the game? Are they gonna squeeze it on 1 DVD? or pull a Lost Odyssey and use 4+? Both versions will need to be the same so compromise has to be made somewhere.

[gkarris]

MS just dropped the price to $299. I've now seen it around here for $269 after rebates, or with something extra free (like games or controllers).

[sikkinixx]

MS just dropped the price to $299. I've now seen it around here for $269 after rebates, or with something extra free (like games or controllers).

I think that is only until they clear out the 20GB models, then the new 60GB models will be $350 again. The Arcade it $270 I think... They should have just dropped it to $250 and be on par with the Wii.

[bluebomberman]

Well, that pretty much kills all my present and future interest for the PS3.

I usually think most of E3's stuff is hype and fanboy crud, but this? This definitely is a major blow.

[2nyRiggz]

Its a clearance for now....there getting out all the 20GB and bringing in the new 60GB to stay along with the Arcade, 60 & 120GB.

It sounds like Sony still have a timed exclusive on their hands.....Guess we'll see.



Bless

[sarcosis]

Agreed. IMO there were three big things that the PS3 had going for it. One, BlueRay. Still is the cheapest good BlueRay player out. Second, MGS4. As we can see, that's doing very well around the world, except in Europe. Then, it was FFXIII. Now that's another one down. PS3 only has MGS4 and BlueRay. Oh and it has Resistance.

So what are peeps going to buy a PS3 for other than BlueRay. That's the only reason I would get it now. As to reading about how they are going to fit all that nifty stuff on one disc? How about multiple discs. I know it's a pain, but it has worked before, it will work again!

[zelmo]

Kudos to MS for this one. While I personally don't really care one bit about a FF game, this is clearly a blow to Sony, timed exclusive or no.
With the price cut on the 20GB 360, MS is set to stake a more permanent claim on the #2 spot [assuming you think the Wii is a nextgen console].

C'mon Sony, fire something back.

[goes back to playing Hot Shots Golf on his PS3]

[fiercetiger224]

You know, it really doesn't matter to me at this point. IMHO, Final Fantasy lost its touch after FFX. FFX-2 was retardid, and FFXII was way too long. Final Fantasy IX was my last favorite Final Fantasy, then they started making the games way too long. At this point, I'm hoping that FFXIII is actually good, because it seems that they're just relying on that franchise to make money.

I haven't bought a Square title since...FFX. Well actually, Valkyrie Profile 2 Silmeria, but that was actually an Enix franchise...

Anyway, I'll wait on reviews of this title before passing judgment. What do you guys think? Is FFXIII going to be a AAA?

[sikkinixx]

Another nice piece of MS news for those with a big HDD, coming to the 360:

Play from hard drive. Copy your games from the game disc and play directly from the hard drive. Not only will the drive not spin, but load times are quicker, as well. Of course, you will still need the disc in the tray to prove you own the game.

http://gamerscoreblog.com/team/archive/2008/07/14/mrcwhtnltrxle.aspx


Thats groovy, sucks you need to have the disc in but it will make the console so much quieter.

[bluebomberman]

What do you guys think? Is FFXIII going to be a AAA?

Probably as AAA as the Star Wars prequels: great visuals, cash cow, contrition upon reflection years after the fact.

We've seen so little of the game itself, though, besides the hot strawberry-blond kicking butt, that it's anybody's guess as to whether we'll get something worthy of the Final Fantasy name.

[2nyRiggz]

Installing a full 9GB+ game on your HDD and still have to keep the disc in the tray:confused:.....sounds dumb. that sounds like that will take a long time to get the whole game in there.

I am liking the new look of the 360 interface though.....straight up rip on Apple TV, Nintendo and Sony..They shoulda just build a house for the avatars and call it "Home Too" :o


Bless

[fiercetiger224]

Probably as AAA as the Star Wars prequels: great visuals, cash cow, contrition upon reflection years after the fact.

We've seen so little of the game itself, though, besides the hot strawberry-blond kicking butt, that it's anybody's guess as to whether we'll get something worthy of the Final Fantasy name.

Exactly. And have you noticed that they're going feminist for main characters, alas FFX-2? That's how you know it's lost its touch. Oh and Nobuo Uematsu not composing the soundtrack? Nope. Not wasting my money on another Final Fantasy ever again.

Actually you know what? Ever since they got rid of Hironobu Sakaguchi, Final Fantasy DID go downhill from there. Anyone else agree with my assessment?

[sikkinixx]

a dude from sqeenix said that 360 development will begin when they finish the game... Sounds like it's a long ways off

[capoeirista]

No 360 version for Japan. Surprise? no.

[bluebomberman]

Exactly. And have you noticed that they're going feminist for main characters, alas FFX-2? That's how you know it's lost its touch.

Whoa, hold up. Of all the problems I've had with Final Fantasy's recent incantations, the lead character's design of FF XIII is *not* one of them. I happen to like what (little) I see of hot strawberry-blond butt-kicking woman (whose name I can't recall) - not proportioned like a Dead or Alive babe, not ridiculously dressed like recent FF or Lost Odyssey heroines, and unafraid to mix it up with violent weaponry. (And no evidence of a dress combat system here.)

I am considerably more skeptical about the game world itself and the game mechanics - in particular, the switch to a MMO-style combat system in FF XII that is visually overloaded with numbers and stats gnaws at me.

I am also allowing for the possibility that the aforementioned lead character's personality will be as painful to roleplay as Squall in FF VIII. *ugh*

[KurtangleTN]

This generation hasn't been about exclusives IMO so far, most are pretty forgettable. I mean other than MGS4 I don't see a great exclusive out there. Gears I think is overrated, I think most would agree Halo 3 was a disappointment.

Uncharted was nice but I'm not sure it's a great game, Resistance was sort of bland, I love MLB the Show bust it's a niche market. The future looks pretty good with Resistance 2 and Killzone 2 but Fable 2 is also looking great.

I think this generation will be close with the PS3 and 360. Maybe separated by under 2 million. I don't see the Wii fizzling out but it would be funny if it did. I think what will separate the PS3 and 360 will ultimately be features and advertising. With the netflix, Microsoft made good strides to take a bit of the multimedia pie.

[e²Studios]

We have to wait and see what Sony has to show tomorrow. I am a bit shocked, but its not too surprising. The most surprising part is that SE just blatantly stabbed Sony in the back and took a jab at their reputation.

MS has the money to throw around, Sony doesn't. MS strong arms companies in to compliance or they wave their money around. MS ultimately is going to ruin this industry (like is has done to so many other industries), it already has done irrepairable damage to it with thier moneyhatting.

This definaltey is not the generation for exclusives, I think games are cost prohibitive from staying on one platform. However I think there is more to it than that from SE, maybe some bad blood that even I can't find a answer to, their tone was very personal.

This isn't the end, its another exclusive lost, its happened on both sides. Your title is quite fanboi like btw, maybe you can change it to something more respectable?

[bluebomberman]

Japanese trailer on Gametrailers (http://www.gametrailers.com/player/36222.html).

So two years = 2 more minutes of footage and 1 more minutes of footage seen at E3 2006. Scant gameplay footage (also from E3 2006).

I honestly don't expect to see this in the US until 2010.

[Dagless]

Good gravy! That's ultra news!

I mean yea, new FF=bleh, but it's a very popular series. Wow.

Now if a PS3 exclusive remake of FF7 is announced tomorrow then, then... Well I can't say :D
I like Square more and more. Yea they've been pumping out the ports and remakes but they haven't been vocal (aka fed moneys) about how ausum BluRay is and they've clearly not seen the storage limitation of DVD9. Despite the series penchant for FMVs. It's all very very interesting.

[sikkinixx]

This isn't the end, its another exclusive lost, its happned on both sides. Your title is quite fanboi like btw, maybe you can change it to something more respectable?

Just paraphrasing the melt down on sites like NeoGAF, kotaku, ps3fanboy, etc. It is a very big deal though,as far as E3 announcements go.

[BoyBach]

We have to wait and see what Sony has to show tomorrow. I am a bit shocked, but its not too surprising. The most surprising part is that SE just blatantly stabbed Sony in the back and took a jab at their reputation.

MS has the money to throw around, Sony doesn't. MS strong arms companies in to compliance or they wave their money around. MS ultimately is going to ruin this industry (like is has done to so many other industries), it already has done irrepairable damage to it with thier moneyhatting.

This definaltey is not the generation for exclusives, I think games are cost prohibitive from staying on one platform. However I think there is more to it than that from SE, maybe some bad blood that even I can't find a answer to, their tone was very personal.

This isn't the end, its another exclusive lost, its happened on both sides. Your title is quite fanboi like btw, maybe you can change it to something more respectable?


It wasn't too long ago that Square had a "special relationship" with Nintendo. That ended when Sony waved a cheque under their nose.

Square have 'form' when it come to this sort of behaviour.

[bluebomberman]

It wasn't too long ago that Square had a "special relationship" with Nintendo. That ended when Sony waved a cheque under their nose.

Square have 'form' when it come to this sort of behaviour.

It's business. Square wants to make (more) money. There isn't much else to it.

Besides, exclusivity on the whole sucks for the average gamer. The only real worry (which may be overblown) for PS3 owners is that they see less games for their console due to the loss of console-selling exclusives.

[Dagless]

We have to wait and see what Sony has to show tomorrow. I am a bit shocked, but its not too surprising. The most surprising part is that SE just blatantly stabbed Sony in the back and took a jab at their reputation.
Because Square have never done anything like this before? At least Sony are still getting the game :p

MS has the money to throw around, Sony doesn't. MS strong arms companies in to compliance or they wave their money around. MS ultimately is going to ruin this industry (like is has done to so many other industries), it already has done irrepairable damage to it with thier moneyhatting.

If it's helped the industry realise that uberly epic games don't need BluRay, don't need HDD's as standard, don't need anything that the PS3 offers over the Xbox 360 then it's good. There's been too much hyperbole about how these things are required for gaming.
A shame it takes a lot of money to show otherwise. But IMO I see this event as something positive for the industry, and for gamers since the 19 or so million 360 users can potentially play the game. Regardless of how many emos or soap operas they manage to squeeze onto the disc.

[MacRumorUser]

Installing a full 9GB+ game on your HDD and still have to keep the disc in the tray:confused:.....sounds dumb.

Why? You have to do it with most PS3 games installed to HDD (other than PSN) and PC (excluding no-cd hacks).

It's not that unusual in all honesty is it, and judging by most games from *cough cough* sites, an average 360 game is about 5-6GB.

I imagine though when you install a game to HDD, you do not install the movie files, they can probably just be played from the DVD, hence installed games won't take up the full size anyway.




I'm quite impressed by the list of new things they are adding in their update though

Here is a look at some additional features you will find interesting:

Play from hard drive. Copy your games from the game disc and play directly from the hard drive. Not only will the drive not spin, but load times are quicker, as well. Of course, you will still need the disc in the tray to prove you own the game.

Access Xbox LIVE Marketplace on the Web. Browse and purchase Marketplace content whenever you want from Xbox.com and it downloads automatically to your console. Purchase that new map, television episode, the latest Xbox LIVE Arcade game or set up a movie to watch when you get home from work.

Dashboard built into the new Xbox Guide. For everyone who loves the blades interface, it’s not going away; they are now built directly in to the new Xbox guide. Every feature and option is available right from the guide. You can even access your full games library at all times. No matter where you are (in dash or in game), immediately call up your games played list and directly launch a game.

LIVE Party system. Create a party of up to eight friends, and stay with them from one game to another, or watch a Netflix movie together, or share a slideshow of your personal photos. It works with all Xbox 360 titles, not just upcoming games. LIVE Party allows up to eight people to chat in the dashboard, so you can meet up before playing.

Xbox LIVE Primetime. This whole new category of games is going to give you more reasons to get online with your friends. Games will support everything you’d expect, like Achievements and leader boards, but many of these games will include real prizes. You can invite your friends, and even set a reminder for an upcoming show. Each game is broadcast simultaneously, so everyone is answering the same questions. Many events will have a live host, calling the shots as they happen.

Avatars. Your online identity started as a Gamertag - it then grew into a personalized Gamercard. Now, it has evolved even further into avatars. You can express your style, check out new outfits and share this with the community. Avatars will also be integrated into Xbox LIVE Arcade games, LIVE Party, as well as retail games.

New display support. Because you asked for it, we are adding 16X10 over VGA or HDMI, and support for 1440x900 or 1680x1050.

Some nice new things there.

[Dagless]

^ I didn't even read them features. I really like the sound of them.
1680x1050 would be native res for my monitor so that's a big w00t from me. Playing games from HDD would be nice. I find myself just running through VC and Wiiware games just because they're easily laid out on the menu. No getting up to change disc (hey I had a busy day :p).

I've never understood this party thing. I remember when MSN had some test service where you could browse the internet with a friend. If I wanted to do something like that I'd just visit their house, same goes for a film. Watching a film "together" online just sounds... pants.

[2nyRiggz]

Why? You have to do it with most PS3 games installed to HDD (other than PSN) and PC (excluding no-cd hacks).


You're missing something MRU or maybe I am....the reason for the install is to not have the disk bay start up and to reduced noise...if its going to be the way you describe it by accessing the FMV from the disc then whats the point of following the same path people are complaining about?

Media and people are freaking out by all the installs on the PS3 and now the 360 follows the same path? whats the benefit....seeing as everyone says the PS3 loading times are not that improved.

Not mandatory is the only benefit I see...you still need the disc to play the game. I would of liked this feature if I didn't need to have the disc in the tray whiles I play it.



Bless

[MacRumorUser]

You're missing something MRU or maybe I am....the reason for the install is to not have the disk bay start up and to reduced noise...if its going to be the way you describe it by accessing the FMV from the disc then whats the point of following the same path people are complaining about?

Media and people are freaking out by all the installs on the PS3 and now the 360 follows the same path? whats the benefit....seeing as everyone says the PS3 loading times are not that improved.

Not mandatory is the only benefit I see...you still need the disc to play the game.


Bless

Yeah maybe your right I am missing somthing... Reading a little more it looks however as if it does indeed install EVERYTHING and just then plays back from the HDD.

Accroding to IGN, it merely checks the disc and then it doesn't spin.

But a few important details weren't mentioned at the show that trickled out later in the day instead. Chief among them was the announcement that, with the new Dashboard, 360 gamers will be able to install disc-based games to their hard drives and play from there, just like their arch-nemeses, PS3 gamers. The disc will have to stay in the tray, but the DVD drive will not spin, which should improve load times and keep the console running quieter and cooler.



And lets face it... they are hardly likely to allow you to install the game to your HDD and then never use the disc in the drive again, that's just asking for piracy isn't it.

As long as the disc drive remains inactive after the initial boot check of the game, then it's really the best they could do realistacly.

What's interesting is that they are allowing you to do this with ALL your games, not just the ones that support it like on the PS3 which is really good news for some. Plus to be honest I have a elite 120gb HDD and I still have over 100GB free on it, so if this update at least realistically makes me able to utilise that big HDD then I'm happy. As it stands - it's wasted space.

[GFLPraxis]

Microsoft's press conference was frustrating to me. They delivered, but there was nothing original.

"Hey guys! We're going to have 'avatars' that are exactly like Mii's, except you can buy clothes like Sony HOME, and guess what? It has a dashboard system that works like Sony's menu bar on the PS3, except it has CHANNELS like a Wii!"

Then they announced sequels and a singstar ripoff. Really nothing original, but there's a lot of content. Typical MS.

[evan g]

Besides, exclusivity on the whole sucks for the average gamer. The only real worry (which may be overblown) for PS3 owners is that they see less games for their console due to the loss of console-selling exclusives.

I think it's the exclusives that are killing the industry. That, and other game developers trying to make money. Exclusives make fanboys argue about which console is better, while the developers are busy counting the money made off of their last game.

And as for a major kick in the balls, I don't think it's Sony feeling the pain, but dedicated FF fans who own PS3's. The only reason why there are consoles to argue about is because industry titans like MS and Sony want a chunk of the money being made in the game business. Even though a game developer may make a game that he/she really enjoys, when it comes down to it, it's the paycheck that really matters.

MS, Sony, Nintendo, etc. have noticed that people like you and me make
REALLY good guinea pigs.

[stainlessliquid]

Why are people acting like this was the only game the PS3 had going for it?

Sony seems to be the last company people think of when they think of first party games, but its Sony that has the highest ratings of any publisher around. Nobody is going to care about FF13 being multiplatform with LBP comes out and ICO 3 (whatever its going to be called) gets shown.

Sony may not have great third party exclusives besides one or 2 games anymore, but either does the 360. When it comes down to it all they really have as far as thirdparty exclusives go is MGS4 and GoW. The rest comes down to first party games, which really isnt even a contest.

[bluebomberman]

I think it's the exclusives that are killing the industry. That, and other game developers trying to make money. Exclusives make fanboys argue about which console is better, while the developers are busy counting the money made off of their last game.

And as for a major kick in the balls, I don't think it's Sony feeling the pain, but dedicated FF fans who own PS3's. The only reason why there are consoles to argue about is because industry titans like MS and Sony want a chunk of the money being made in the game business. Even though a game developer may make a game that he/she really enjoys, when it comes down to it, it's the paycheck that really matters.

MS, Sony, Nintendo, etc. have noticed that people like you and me make
REALLY good guinea pigs.

Um...okay. I have no idea what you're arguing here. The problem is Microsoft and Sony are trying to make money? They're using us as guinea pigs?

My goodness, we're talking about video games, not pharmaceuticals. What does this have to do with FF XIII?

Why are people acting like this was the only game the PS3 had going for it?

Sony seems to be the last company people think of when they think of first party games, but its Sony that has the highest ratings of any publisher around. Nobody is going to care about FF13 being multiplatform with LBP comes out and ICO 3 (whatever its going to be called) gets shown.

Sony may not have great third party exclusives besides one or 2 games anymore, but either does the 360. When it comes down to it all they really have as far as thirdparty exclusives go is MGS4 and GoW. The rest comes down to first party games, which really isnt even a contest.

ICO and LittleBigPlanet likely won't sell consoles the way FF XIII surely would have.

I'm probably stating the obvious here: the idea behind exclusives is that

you collect a percentage cut of sales of the exclusive while your competitor gets none
more consoles sold by you and less by your competitor, thereby widening your base of users and the market for future sales
ego boost and intimidation


Which is why FF XIII going multiplatform is such big news. For many people, a new FF game wedded them to buying a PS3, either in the past or in the future. The people willing to do the same for ICO or LittleBigPlanet is probably much smaller. And for Sony, it's a humiliating tumble from dominance. They look like second fiddles now.

I don't see how you can discount first-party exclusives, since they have similar reasons for being. Halo sold lots of Xboxes, and Nintendo's stable of characters sold lots of Gamecubes and Wiis. Sony's relative weakness in first-party exclusives was made up for almost entirely by third-party exclusives like the GTA, MGS, and FF franchises.

We've already seen the effects of the PS3 falling behind: SKU confusion as Sony scrambled to stop the financial hemorrhaging, shoddy ports, games that are no better than the Xbox version despite supposedly greater horsepower under the hood, better exclusives overall for the Xbox, and more of PS3 exclusives going multiplatform. If it gets significantly worse, the PS3 might end up like the Gamecube or the Dreamcast.

[fiercetiger224]

We've already seen the effects of the PS3 falling behind: SKU confusion as Sony scrambled to stop the financial hemorrhaging, shoddy ports, games that are no better than the Xbox version despite supposedly greater horsepower under the hood, better exclusives overall for the Xbox, and more of PS3 exclusives going multiplatform. If it gets significantly worse, the PS3 might end up like the Gamecube or the Dreamcast.

This actually reminds me of the 16-bit console wars, where Sega and Nintendo all had multiplatform games. Yes, Square only made games for Nintendo back then, but they were one of the fews third-party companies back then that actually wanted to stay exclusive to one console. Pretty much comparing other third-party companies, like Konami and Capcom, they all had either multiplatform or exclusive games for each system, which is not any different from the approach that Square Enix has decided to take.

As for PS3 ending up like the Gamecube or Dreamcast, I think it'll be far from it. Gamecube maybe, but definitely not Dreamcast. Like I said before, Square Enix is now relying on its key franchise, Final Fantasy, to make them some money back. It's their cash cow, which means that it won't be as good as it should be now, since it's going multiplatform. I'm just curious as to when Dragon Quest will make its way to a next gen console...

Anyway, here's what everyone has to think about: AT LEAST Sony didn't LOSE Final Fantasy, they're just losing exclusivity. I don't know what you fanboys are complaining about. :rolleyes: It just means that we all get to share the same game, albeit watered-down because it's not taking advantage of each consoles strengths.

I lost touch with Final Fantasy after X, so doesn't really matter if it's exclusive or not to me. :p

[mosx]

Why are people acting like this was the only game the PS3 had going for it?

Sony seems to be the last company people think of when they think of first party games, but its Sony that has the highest ratings of any publisher around. Nobody is going to care about FF13 being multiplatform with LBP comes out and ICO 3 (whatever its going to be called) gets shown.

Sony may not have great third party exclusives besides one or 2 games anymore, but either does the 360. When it comes down to it all they really have as far as thirdparty exclusives go is MGS4 and GoW. The rest comes down to first party games, which really isnt even a contest.

ICO? ICO was a commercial flop. ICO and Shadow have a small dedicated fan base, but they were commercial flops, selling very little. What Team ICO makes means nothing in the overall scheme of things.

LittleBigPlanet doesn't mean anything either.

Sony has nothing now as far as 3rd party exclusives goes. Its only a matter of time until MGS4 gets ported to the Xbox360. Why wouldn't it? The sales of the game on the PS3 did well at first but have since dropped significantly. Konami has to recover the cost somehow.

As far as first party goes.. What does Sony have? God of War? People make a big deal out of God of War, but it doesn't mean much either. The second God of War game was a flop compared to the first, and do people even know about the PSP game?

Gran Turismo? Gran Turismo 4 sold only a fraction of what the previous games did. Every self respecting car enthusiast is into Forza and other games now. We want real car damage, not bumper cars. And considering Sony has been unable to deliver on most, if not all, of their promises the last few years, nobody has any reason to believe that Gran Turismo 5 will be anything more than Bumper Cars 5.

The only card Sony has to play now would be Insomniac's games. But I hate to break it to you, they're an independent 3rd party developer. They already said in the past they will go where the money is. If they see the Xbox360 as a better platform to make more money (and Resistance and Ratchet on the PS3 haven't sold nearly as much as their PS2 and PS1 games have) they have absolutely no reason not to give Sony the finger and go to Microsoft. They won't be able to take Resistance or Ratchet with them, since Sony is the publisher and holds the rights. But Insomniac could jump ship at any point.

Final Fantasy 13 going to the PS3 isn't so much what is the big deal. The big deal is that this is one of the biggest developers out there making it clear that all developers have little to no faith in Sony and that the Xbox is the platform to be on for this generation.

[e²Studios]

Final Fantasy 13 going to the PS3 isn't so much what is the big deal. The big deal is that this is one of the biggest developers out there making it clear that all developers have little to no faith in Sony and that the Xbox is the platform to be on for this generation.

If that was the case then FFXII VS wouldn't be exclusive to the PS3, as well if that statement were true they would have just pulled out from Sony all together.

You sir are a troll, one that wouldn't dare look up facts as that would discredit pretty much your entire post (or any post you've ever made).

Do us all a favor and crawl back under the rock you came from.

[stainlessliquid]

There arent that many idiots that buy a console for just one game anymore, consoles cost too much to do stupid stuff like that. I was considering buying a 360 or PS3 for when GTA4 came out, but when I looked at the future and current games I found the PS3 much better since I could get GTA4, MGS4, and LBP this year alone where as the 360 had no other games I wanted that I didnt already have on the PC.

How does FF13 going multiplatform make the rest of the PS3's library any less valid? When a game is multiplatform it forces people to look at the rest of the games on each system. Games like LBP and the ICO game will definitely be on peoples minds, and anyone who is interested in FF13 will likely find those games a lot more enticing than the anti-FF known as GoW2 (which is currently MS's only offering in the near or distant future). Not to mention an awful lot of FF fans are also fans of MGS.

I don't see how you can discount first-party exclusives, since they have similar reasons for being. Halo sold lots of Xboxes, and Nintendo's stable of characters sold lots of Gamecubes and Wiis. Sony's relative weakness in first-party exclusives was made up for almost entirely by third-party exclusives like the GTA, MGS, and FF franchises.
That proves my point, people are completely ignorant to Sony first party games. The fact is that Sony publishes the highest rated games out of any company. Sony has a lot of first party exclusive games that are huge successes, but barely anybody realizes they are from Sony since Sony stupidly does nothing to promote the brand behind the games like everyone else does.

[killmoms]

Square hasn't made a decent FF game since FF6.

Yes, I said 6, not 7. Deal with it.

Also, Team ICO is brilliance, and as long as SCEI is willing to fund Fumito Ueda's games, I will buy them. I will buy a PS3 for whatever he's making for it. (So yes, small but dedicated fan base—ICO and Shadow of the Colossus are two of the greatest games ever made.)

[JackAxe]

Shhhh, you'll offend the younglings. :D FF7 is all they know, it was their first. :o

<]=)

[mosx]

If that was the case then FFXII VS wouldn't be exclusive to the PS3, as well if that statement were true they would have just pulled out from Sony all together.

You sir are a troll, one that wouldn't dare look up facts as that would discredit pretty much your entire post (or any post you've ever made).

Do us all a favor and crawl back under the rock you came from.

hahaha. I love these posts!

"OMG I CAN'T HANDLE WHAT YOU SAID! YOU'RE A TROLL GO AWAY!"

:rolleyes:

First of all, there has never been a good Final Fantasy spin-off. Ever play Dirge of Cerberus? Case closed. FFXIII VS is a spin-off, an action-RPG, and according to the wikipedia entry, completely unrelated to Final Fantasy XIII.

So its basically an action RPG set in the same world with completely different characters and milking off the Final Fantasy name.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_Versus_XIII

The gameplay is described as a "realistic derivation of Kingdom Hearts with some 3rd person shooting". Just like the wikipedia article says, it sounds exactly like Dirge of Cerberus.

So why should we care about FFXIII VS? It plays like a game that was panned by critics and Square fanboys alike. It has absolutely nothing to do with Final Fantasy 13, except for the world it is set in. And its made by a game developer that has trashed their own reputation with nothing but bad game after bad game since the failure of the movie Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within.

And my statement about developers having little to no faith in Sony is true.

Why are this generations games made with the Xbox360 in mind then ported to the PS3? Why are these games that were once exclusive to the PS platform now appearing on the Xbox?

Why are even some developers, like Insomniac, that are on Sony's payroll coming out and saying "they'll go wherever there is money to be made"?

Insomniac is pretty much all Sony has left these days and they've made it clear they'll up and leave if they feel their games would sell better on the Xbox360.

Games like LBP and the ICO game will definitely be on peoples minds,

Why do people even bother bringing up LittleBigPlanet? Seriously. This just proves that the Playstation3 is this generations Nintendo64. Everything good it has, and everything good the previous generation had, has gone to the competition and the fanboys are holding on to these games that will end up being second rate at best, but hyping them up to no end. It happened last year with Lair and Heavenly Sword. Its happening this year with LBP and ICO.

Why even bring up ICO? Sure it has a loyal fanbase, but the game was a commercial flop. The sales were terrible!

Not to mention an awful lot of FF fans are also fans of MGS.

Well, that makes sense.. considering each new FF game has sold worse than the last, and now each MGS game is selling worse than the last.

The fact is that Sony publishes the highest rated games out of any company. Sony has a lot of first party exclusive games that are huge successes, but barely anybody realizes they are from Sony since Sony stupidly does nothing to promote the brand behind the games like everyone else does.

Like what? God of War? God of War 2 was a commercial flop. The first one didn't sell as well as the hype for the series suggests, and people don't even know the PSP game exists.

Gran Turismo? Gran Turismo 4 was a commercial failure compared to the previous games, and all self respecting car enthusiasts have moved on to other games, like Forza.

Team ICO games? Their games, too, have been commercial failures outside of Japan.

Naughty Dogs games? They've been forgotten since nobody liked Jak 2.

The rest of "Sony's" games are developed by 3rd parties (like Insomniac). Sony just publishes them. But Insomniac has made it clear that they'll leave Sony if they feel they can do better on the Xbox360.

And with everyone else jumping ship and going to the Xbox, its only a matter of time before they do as well.

[P-Worm]

First of all, there has never been a good Final Fantasy spin-off.

I disagree. Not only do I consider Final Fantasy Tactics to be the best Final Fantasy, But I consider Final Fantasy Tactics to be one of the greatest games of all time.

P-Worm

[bluebomberman]

That proves my point, people are completely ignorant to Sony first party games. The fact is that Sony publishes the highest rated games out of any company. Sony has a lot of first party exclusive games that are huge successes, but barely anybody realizes they are from Sony since Sony stupidly does nothing to promote the brand behind the games like everyone else does.

If we're just talking about critical successes, then yeah, Sony's got a few of them, but of course that doesn't always mean sales. (ICO being the best example.) I generally find that most of Sony's exclusives are either in the "special, but sells 2 copies" camp or "expensive, boring eye candy that sells well." The God of War series might be the only clear stand out critical and commercial success. (This is especially true of more recent exclusives.) And nothing from Sony itself matched Halo's enormous market footprint.

(Rachet & Clank, meanwhile, is the Sony exclusive that sells well, plays well, but otherwise has no major presence in pop culture. Weird.)

Yeesh, now I'm interested to see if Sony can produce any sock-knocking stuff at E3 to regain some lost mojo. As much as I like watching LittleBigPlanet trailers, Sony needs more.

[michaelltd]

So does that make the Xbox 360 the console with just about every big name RPG? It's weird, we'd all be laughing if someone predicted that the 360 would be the place to go for JRPGs a few years ago.

When I first saw the announcement of Final Fantasy XIII coming to Xbox 360, I chuckled because I imagined at that moment Sony fanboys everywhere are probably downplaying the game and Anti-Sony fanboys suddenly believing that the game will be awesome.

[mosx]

I disagree. Not only do I consider Final Fantasy Tactics to be the best Final Fantasy, But I consider Final Fantasy Tactics to be one of the greatest games of all time.

Final Fantasy Tactics had nothing to do with Final Fantasy in terms of story or, especially, gameplay until Final Fantasy 12 rolled around.

It was just a game that milked off the success of FF7 by using the "Final Fantasy" name. Only with the arrival of FF12 did it finally have a link to the "true" "Final Fantasy universe" and only then did it become a true "spin-off".

Final Fantasy Tactics is a lot like a few other games, in that it has a small and loyal fanbase.

(Rachet & Clank, meanwhile, is the Sony exclusive that sells well, plays well, but otherwise has no major presence in pop culture. Weird.)

And its developed by an independent 3rd party studio that has made it clear that they'll dump Sony if its in their best interest ;)

When I first saw the announcement of Final Fantasy XIII coming to Xbox 360, I chuckled because I imagined at that moment Sony fanboys everywhere are probably downplaying the game and Anti-Sony fanboys suddenly believing that the game will be awesome.

Thats pretty much how its gone down.

The only true "triple A" title that Sony has left is MGS4. And its sales are indicating that it hasn't and won't live up to the hype.

The Playstation3 is the Nintendo64/GameCube of this generation.

[stainlessliquid]

If we're just talking about critical successes, then yeah, Sony's got a few of them, but of course that doesn't always mean sales. (ICO being the best example.) I generally find that most of Sony's exclusives are either in the "special, but sells 2 copies" camp or "expensive, boring eye candy that sells well." The God of War series might be the only clear stand out critical and commercial success. (This is especially true of more recent exclusives.) And nothing from Sony itself matched Halo's enormous market footprint.

(Rachet & Clank, meanwhile, is the Sony exclusive that sells well, plays well, but otherwise has no major presence in pop culture. Weird.)

Yeesh, now I'm interested to see if Sony can produce any sock-knocking stuff at E3 to regain some lost mojo. As much as I like watching LittleBigPlanet trailers, Sony needs more.

Critical success is all that matters to a consumer. Do I care how much money Sony or Microsoft make? No, how does that help me? I care who makes the better games. I dont understand why people compare companies as if they have stock in them, last generation was the worst with the whole "Nintendo is the best because they make money from gamecube sales rather than lose money" crowd but this year is bad too. High sales doesnt make a game good, Halo is proof of that, a mediocre game with insane sales thanks to an insane marketing campaign which likely costed more than the actual development.

I would rather get the best games rather than worry about the best selling games.

[michaelltd]

Thats pretty much how its gone down.

So you're saying that you suddenly believe that Final Fantasy XIII is awesome because its now coming to the console you worship? ;) :D

I would rather get the best games rather than worry about the best selling games.

Agreed!

[mosx]

So you're saying that you suddenly believe that Final Fantasy XIII is awesome because its now coming to the console you worship?

Haha no ;)

The last truly good Final Fantasy game was 8. 9 was okay, but not as good as 8. FF6 was the peak of the series. FF7 was good, but highly overrated by just about everyone who played it as their first Final Fantasy game.

High sales doesnt make a game good, Halo is proof of that, a mediocre game with insane sales thanks to an insane marketing campaign which likely costed more than the actual development.

I would rather get the best games rather than worry about the best selling games.

I love how people use the "sales don't mean anything!" argument until one of their beloved games sells good.

I remember back in the day, Nintendo fans would point to the sales of Mario 64 and Zelda: OoT as proof that they were good games, then say that PS games selling good didn't mean they were good games.

The only time this argument applies and is legitimate is when discussing Nintendo games. When a game sells millions on a Nintendo platform, chances are it was the first half decent game released in the last 6-8 months and the owners of that system are dying for a new game to play, so they all run out and buy it. Look at Zelda: OoT back on the N64 as a perfect example. The last major release before it was Yoshi's Island. Prior to that it was Goldeneye.

On the Wii you had Super Mario Galaxy and then nothing until Mario Kart.

Anyway, on Sony and Microsoft consoles, sales DO, in fact, dictate quality. Halo sold millions and Halo 2 sold millions because they were fantastic games. Grand Theft Auto 4, GTA3, SA, VC, all sold millions upon millions because they were fantastic games.

ICO didn't sell well because, lets face, it wasn't that great of a game. Yes I played it.

Gran Turismo 4 didn't sell anywhere near as good as GT3 because it was both a disappointment and people had moved on to the Xbox and Forza, with Forza 2 on the horizon for the (then) upcoming Xbox360.

Metal Gear Solid 3 didn't even sell half as much as MGS2 because people realized what a snooze fest MGS is and didn't want to be bothered with it, much the same way that MGS4 is falling on the charts as we speak.

So yes, unless we're discussing Nintendo, game sales are directly proportional to the quality of the game.

[Ozz.Man]

Glad I own all the consoles so I have choice. I was actually thinking to get rid of my 360 but on second thought :confused:

[Dagless]

Shhhh, you'll offend the younglings. :D FF7 is all they know, it was their first. :o

<]=)

Because nothing is simple for me FF7 was the most recent FF game I played :p
I think 3 was my first, on the DS. I didn't care for the series until then.

Edit: Nono! I had Dawn of Souls on GBA first!

[MacRumorUser]

ICO and LittleBigPlanet likely won't sell consoles the way FF XIII surely would have.

Exactly!! Games that get universal criticial acclaim, push the envelope and are a big development risk... and yet often make very little impact on the retail market.

Hell you only have to look at the games that are similar and how they sold.

LBP will probably hit retail at the same time as Fifa 09, Madden 09, Yet another EA or other sequel 09, and will likely have sales figures that pale in comparison, unless..... Sony spend $$$$$ marketing and even then such an original IP is still a risky proposition in the console market.

I imagine as bad as LBP will sell (i'll be buying it) the same will happen to Viva Pinata : Trouble in Paradise on the 360, and they both share similarities gameplay wise and both out around the same time. These games are my favorites and they just do nothing at retail irrespective of quality.



Final Fantasy series has been a stalwart in Sony's repository. It's a guaranteed seller and has a very loyal following worldwide. M$ have securing the game on it's platform is a good move for them even if it isn't an exclusive, and to be honest it's hardly a surprise given the fact that they have been signing up all the major JRPG's lately.

Microsoft are re-associating it's brand name with the JRPG field, which whilst making little impact this generation (in Japan anyway) - the fact that they will have associated those key franchises to their platform - means that 'next gen' will likely do better.

They are thinking about tommorow, not today. And that's a wise forward thinking decision.




ICO didn't sell well because, lets face, it wasn't that great of a game. Yes I played it.


looking at the box doesn't constitute playing ;) ICO was a breathtaking game on so many levels.

However... judging by your comments on HALO - it is clear the game was not aimed at your demographic and it doesn't surprise me in the slightest that your ripping on it and prefer to hold something like HALO2 up as this shiny beacon of gaming.

The only true "triple A" title that Sony has left is MGS4. And its sales are indicating that it hasn't and won't live up to the hype.

Again in your ignorance, you are assuming sales figures and gaming quality are related. They are not.

[Dagless]

Return of the silly Sony quotes (http://www.nintendowiifanboy.com/2008/07/14/stringer-wii-is-expensive-niche-console/).

According to Stringer the Wii is "an expensive niche game device". Damn, another one for the list.

[2nyRiggz]

Sony has nothing now as far as 3rd party exclusives goes.

Great so which system has these excellent 3rd party exclusive....can't be MS because most(if not all at the end of this year) "best" 3rd party exclusive are now multiplatform.

Opinions are like Aholes....everyone gotta have one and to say LBP won't don't anything is just it...your opinion.

Games like ICO/SoTC was two of the greatest games of last generation regardless of sales....Please play the games before you pass judgment on them.

As I saw from the press conference MS only has 3rd parties show casing their work besides Gears & Fable 2.....wheres the excellent AAA exclusives? lips, the movie game thing...yet you talk about niche market:confused:

And its developed by an independent 3rd party studio that has made it clear that they'll dump Sony if its in their best interest ;)

False, Insomniac is a 1st party dev studio and sony own & publish all their games......dream on young hater.

Bless

[Dagless]

I can see what he means about a niche market (not the Sony guy). LBP is a puzzle platform game, MGS4 is a stealthy soap opera. These aren't large market games (unfortunately). Though part of me thinks LBP is going to end up as another Heavenly Sword or Lair; games we're told to look forward to but end up missing the mark.

And I thought Metroid Prime was the best single player game last gen and that didn't sell well either :cool:

[mosx]

looking at the box doesn't constitute playing ICO was a breathtaking game on so many levels.

Sorry, but I did play it. Whether you want to believe so or otherwise.

I'm just one of those people that does not automatically like something because it comes from Japan. I like games that are GOOD.

However... judging by your comments on HALO - it is clear the game was not aimed at your demographic and it doesn't surprise me in the slightest that your ripping on it and prefer to hold something like HALO2 up as this shiny beacon of gaming.

Apparently ICO wasn't aimed at anyone, considering it was a commercial flop.

I'd definitely take Halo or Grand Theft Auto over ICO any way. Why? because they're FUN.

ICO was boring, it honestly didn't look that good (sorry, but modern Japanese artwork/anime is terrible, so much so that even Japanese that are not otaku think so).

Games are meant to be fun. Not boring.

Again in your ignorance, you are assuming sales figures and gaming quality are related. They are not.

Here we go with that stupid argument again.

Look, we're not talking about Nintendo systems where you get 1 or 2 good games a year.

On the Playstation and Xbox, game sales directly relate to the quality of the game. If a game is not good people will not buy it. Not very many people bought ICO, so therefore it is not a very good game by default.

YOU might like it, but that doesn't change the fact that nobody else does.

If a game does not sell well then it is not a good game. Simple.

Great so which system has these excellent 3rd party exclusive....can't be MS because most(if not all at the end of this year) "best" 3rd party exclusive are now multiplatform.

Let me know when Gears of War 2 hits the PS3 ;)

Opinions are like Aholes....everyone gotta have one and to say LBP won't don't anything is just it...your opinion.

And why will LBP be a "good game"? Has anything Sony made recently turned out good? No? Thats right.

Games like ICO/SoTC was two of the greatest games of last generation regardless of sales....Please play the games before you pass judgment on them.

I did play them. I don't like Japanese games any more. I used when I was younger, but now they're just annoying, boring, and the artwork drives me nuts because anime looks like a 5 year old drew it.

Oh, and the sales PROVE that the games were bad. People not buying the game = bad game. If you can't accept that fact you shouldn't be playing video games or arguing in this forum.

As I saw from the press conference MS only has 3rd parties show casing their work besides Gears & Fable 2.....wheres the excellent AAA exclusives? lips, the movie game thing...yet you talk about niche market

Where are Sony's "AAA exclusives"? Thats right, they have none. Gran Turismo will get beaten by Forza 2 and 3. MGS will eventually make it to the Xbox360, seeing as how the sales of the PS3 version are plummeting and they need to recover development costs.

The strength of the Xbox360 comes in a variety of forms. One is that it will have 1,000 games available by the end of the year. The Playstation3 has what? A fraction of that? The Xbox360 already has countless AAA exclusive titles available that the PS3 has nothing to counter with, like Forza, the original Gears of War, Halo 3. The Xbox360 has almost full backwards compatibility with Xbox titles (just look at the list available at xbox.com) versus no backwards compatibility with PS2 titles on the PS3.

When you look at the Xbox360 now, you see a vast library of games. The Xbox360 is literally the Playstation/Playstation2 of this generation and the PS3 is the N64/Gamecube of this generation.

You see high quality titles on the Xbox360 like Gears of War, Halo 3, Forza, PGR, and many others I'm too lazy to type. On the PS3 you see crap like Lair, Heavenly Sword, the snooze fest that is MGS 4 (I'm sorry, but MGS2 and 3 bored me to tears, and MGS4 spends roughly HALF the game watching!?).

When you look at both consoles you see the Xbox360 having the superior version of multi-platform games in all but once instance where a certain game had an extra YEAR of development time.

The Xbox360 has other strengths too. Such as the ability to play your own music in ANY game, not just a select few. It has the largest on-demand library of HD video. The better online service, streaming Netflix, etc.

So far, Sony has failed to deliver on nearly every promise they have made. Not just with the PS3, but they never delivered on any of their promises with the PS2 either!

Its amazing people can even trust Sony when they've treated their customers worse than anyone else in the industry.

People always talk bad about Microsoft, but at least when they tell you they will do something they stand by their word and do it.

Not like Sony. One year you have "The Playstation formats will live on forever through backwards compatibility!" "backwards compatibility is paramount to our strategy!" The next year you have "nobody cares about backwards compatibility any more".

You even have them forcing people to resign when they say their service needs to be more like the competitions.

Sony, really, is a joke.

But anyway. The Xbox360 has more games than the PS2 did at this very same point in its life. It has far more than the PS3 does. That is a fact.

False, Insomniac is a 1st party dev studio and sony own & publish all their games......dream on young hater.

To use your words against you, "Dream on".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insomniac_Games

"Insomniac Games is an independent US video game developer"

http://www.insomniacgames.com/about.php "Founded in 1994, Insomniac Games is an independent game developer based in beautiful downtown Burbank, where the sun shines just about 365 days a year."

Sorry. Insomniac is free to develop for whom they choose. And they have made it very clear in interviews that they will go where the money is best.

Though part of me thinks LBP is going to end up as another Heavenly Sword or Lair; games we're told to look forward to but end up missing the mark.

Heh, exactly. Sony's development studios, aside from Insomniac, have all failed to live up to their hype.

Playstation3 is Nintendo64 all over again.

And I thought Metroid Prime was the best single player game last gen and that didn't sell well either

It actually sold great for a non-Mario Nintendo game. It sold around 2 million. About half of Mario Kart Double Dash.

[Dagless]

If a game does not sell well then it is not a good game. Simple.


I disagree, it's one of the reasons why a game won't sell but lack of advertising, limited prints (on occasion), smaller console sales all contribute to low game sales.

Games like SoTC didn't sell well because they're in a niche market. A game that relies on exploration alone isn't going to do brilliantly on the market. Add in an RPG system, enemies and exploration and you have a more capable game (such as Monster Hunter). What a lot of these "popular" Sony games (SoTC, Ico, Echochrome, Flow) do is strip down the gameplay to its core components. Which just gives the game a mini, cult like following. Kinda like the indie PC scene but more costly.

[sikkinixx]

I disagree. Not only do I consider Final Fantasy Tactics to be the best Final Fantasy, But I consider Final Fantasy Tactics to be one of the greatest games of all time.

P-Worm

word

[MacRumorUser]

Not very many people bought ICO, so therefore it is not a very good game by default.

Well that basically sums up your logic in regard to everything... utterly flawed.

[2nyRiggz]

Where are Sony's "AAA exclusives"? Thats right, they have none. Gran Turismo will get beaten by Forza 2 and 3. MGS will eventually make it to the Xbox360, seeing as how the sales of the PS3 version are plummeting and they need to recover development costs.

You see high quality titles on the Xbox360 like Gears of War, Halo 3, Forza, PGR...

Heh, exactly. Sony's development studios, aside from Insomniac, have all failed to live up to their hype.


Yeah I'm done feeding you.....majority of Insomniac IPs are Sony publish games.

Bless

[P-Worm]

You see high quality titles on the Xbox360 like Gears of War, Halo 3, Forza, PGR, and many others I'm too lazy to type. On the PS3 you see crap like Lair, Heavenly Sword, the snooze fest that is MGS 4 (I'm sorry, but MGS2 and 3 bored me to tears, and MGS4 spends roughly HALF the game watching!?).

I thought Metal Gear Solid 4 was amazing. Much better than GTA4 (which I'm a little upset I bought into the hype and spent my money on). These other games that you mention aren't that great in my opinion. Gears of War did nothing more than anger me all the time. I kept getting stuck to walls when I didn't want to. I have to hand it to the developers though, that game sure was pretty.

Halo 3, for me at least, is the pinnacle example of a game that sold well, but wasn't that great. The multiplayer just isn't as fun as other games. When my friends get together to play games, we always play Halo online for only one reason - you are allowed to play 4 player split screen online. If Call of Duty 4 had this feature, Halo 3 would be sitting on the shelf collecting dust. There's been many occasions when all of us get together and watch each other play Call of Duty instead of playing Halo because it is so much more fun.

Let me ask you, do you believe that sales constitute quality in everything? What about Windows? What about the legions of movies that make millions in the box office, but turned out to be absolute crap? Does the fact that McDonalds serves billions mean they have the best food? Do you still play with your POGs?

P-Worm

[BSME]

It wasn't too long ago that Square had a "special relationship" with Nintendo. That ended when Sony waved a cheque under their nose.

Square have 'form' when it come to this sort of behaviour.


agreed. I never made the move from Nintendo to Playstation and lost touch with the series since. this "betrayal" of Sony is only SE moving on...


on a side note, I cannot wait to play FFXIII on my 360!

[P-Worm]

Wow. :eek: This guy has serious issues.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=k-uTnqYHZ-I

P-Worm

[Mike Teezie]

I thought Metal Gear Solid 4 was amazing. Much better than GTA4 (which I'm a little upset I bought into the hype and spent my money on). These other games that you mention aren't that great in my opinion. Gears of War did nothing more than anger me all the time. I kept getting stuck to walls when I didn't want to. I have to hand it to the developers though, that game sure was pretty.

Halo 3, for me at least, is the pinnacle example of a game that sold well, but wasn't that great. The multiplayer just isn't as fun as other games. When my friends get together to play games, we always play Halo online for only one reason - you are allowed to play 4 player split screen online. If Call of Duty 4 had this feature, Halo 3 would be sitting on the shelf collecting dust. There's been many occasions when all of us get together and watch each other play Call of Duty instead of playing Halo because it is so much more fun.

Let me ask you, do you believe that sales constitute quality in everything? What about Windows? What about the legions of movies that make millions in the box office, but turned out to be absolute crap? Does the fact that McDonalds serves billions mean they have the best food? Do you still play with your POGs?

P-Worm

Agreed on all counts. The day I bought CoD4, Halo 3 became a coaster. I hated Halo 2.

Check the avatar if you need to know how I feel about the MGS series.

Your other points are all spot on. I'm not one of the "indie" mindset that means anything that sells well is mainstream drivel, but to say that anything that doesn't sell massively is no good - that's just incredibly absurd.

[cycocelica]

Never liked the FF series, but this is a big win for Microsoft and the Xbox.

[Dagless]

Wow. :eek: This guy has serious issues.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=k-uTnqYHZ-I

P-Worm

Later today I'm going to have a shave, trim my nails, clean my teeth, bit of mouthwash and likely have a nice long shower. I'll use an exfoliator sponge and some Shield soap. I'll then delete my youtube account, delete my PC's history logs and cache.
Just to get rid of any evidence that I ever watched that video.

[evan g]

Um...okay. I have no idea what you're arguing here. The problem is Microsoft and Sony are trying to make money? They're using us as guinea pigs?

My goodness, we're talking about video games, not pharmaceuticals. What does this have to do with FF XIII?



ICO and LittleBigPlanet likely won't sell consoles the way FF XIII surely would have.

I'm probably stating the obvious here: the idea behind exclusives is that

you collect a percentage cut of sales of the exclusive while your competitor gets none
more consoles sold by you and less by your competitor, thereby widening your base of users and the market for future sales
ego boost and intimidation


Which is why FF XIII going multiplatform is such big news. For many people, a new FF game wedded them to buying a PS3, either in the past or in the future. The people willing to do the same for ICO or LittleBigPlanet is probably much smaller. And for Sony, it's a humiliating tumble from dominance. They look like second fiddles now.

I don't see how you can discount first-party exclusives, since they have similar reasons for being. Halo sold lots of Xboxes, and Nintendo's stable of characters sold lots of Gamecubes and Wiis. Sony's relative weakness in first-party exclusives was made up for almost entirely by third-party exclusives like the GTA, MGS, and FF franchises.

We've already seen the effects of the PS3 falling behind: SKU confusion as Sony scrambled to stop the financial hemorrhaging, shoddy ports, games that are no better than the Xbox version despite supposedly greater horsepower under the hood, better exclusives overall for the Xbox, and more of PS3 exclusives going multiplatform. If it gets significantly worse, the PS3 might end up like the Gamecube or the Dreamcast.

I know this is a little late but... :rolleyes:

All I was saying is "Why are we worrying about wether FFX is an exclusive or not?" :)

its just a game. :D

----------------------

http://youtube.com/watch?v=k-uTnqYHZ-I

hey its a guinea pig! haha

[stainlessliquid]

Though part of me thinks LBP is going to end up as another Heavenly Sword or Lair; games we're told to look forward to but end up missing the mark.
I dont remember anyone being excited about heavenly sword or lair. There was a lot of skepticism towards those games. Most people could tell that they were just cheap launch quality games, there was nothing special about them at all. LBP on the other hand is being talked about everywhere, its one of the most anticipated games of the year and everyone has loved what theyve played of it so far. It has people who hate Sony even taking notice. LBP is a major GOTY contender, not a piece of crap made to fill in dry spells like HS and Lair.

[bluebomberman]

All I was saying is "Why are we worrying about wether FFX is an exclusive or not?" :)

its just a game. :D


Agreed that some people can take this too seriously (like the aforementioned Youtuber). That said, I think there's a financial and emotional investment made by some in their console that makes them more sensitive to news like this. If you were a first adopter of the PS3 (either through paying out the nose over eBay or waiting on long frigid lines for hours or days), I imagine the PS3's relative misfortunes hurts even more.

We Mac people should at least be aware of this. Whether you are sympathetic or not I leave up to you.

[Dagless]

LBP is a major GOTY contender, not a piece of crap made to fill in dry spells like HS and Lair.

Given the limited market of its genre I'm going to say no. It'll end up being one of them Sony games that people hail but doesn't do well and won't be scooping grand GOTY awards. You're talking about a puzzle 2D platformer*. It'd win IGF for sure, but it's not an independent game.


*I'm not saying this because it's what I want either. It breaks my heart that 2D is dying as I've pumped nearly 2 years into a 2D adventure game myself. I'm just realistic about what these games can achieve and what the mass market wants.

Oh and if you read around the internet a lot of the Sony crew were really pumped for HS and Lair. It was a meme last year to have "Just wait for X game...", X being a hyped PS3 game.

[mosx]

I disagree, it's one of the reasons why a game won't sell but lack of advertising, limited prints (on occasion), smaller console sales all contribute to low game sales.

None of which apply to ICO and SoTC. They were both released when the PS2 had sold tens of millions. They also had plenty of exposure, with their (very small) cult like following and Sony going the distance and sending out demo discs to PSU members, posters, coupons, etc.

Games like SoTC didn't sell well because they're in a niche market. A game that relies on exploration alone isn't going to do brilliantly on the market. Add in an RPG system, enemies and exploration and you have a more capable game (such as Monster Hunter). What a lot of these "popular" Sony games (SoTC, Ico, Echochrome, Flow) do is strip down the gameplay to its core components. Which just gives the game a mini, cult like following.

You can make all of the excuses you want. ICO and SoTC had tons of exposure from their small fanbase (word of mouth), reviews, and Sony sending out the demo discs and such.

ICO and SoTC didn't sell well simply because they were bad games.

Well that basically sums up your logic in regard to everything... utterly flawed.

Translation: I lost and now I'm trying to turn this around on you.

:rolleyes:

Yeah I'm done feeding you.....majority of Insomniac IPs are Sony publish games.

If you had actually read my post, you'd know that I said that Sony owns the rights to games Insomniac develops, so they cannot take those games or characters with them should they choose to leave.

I was simply stating that Insomniac is INDEPENDENT and Ted Price has made it EXTREMELY clear that if they are not happy with Sony that they will go elsewhere.

I thought Metal Gear Solid 4 was amazing. Much better than GTA4 (which I'm a little upset I bought into the hype and spent my money on).

Well, everyone and their brother disagrees with you. GTA4 continues to sell steady and well, while MGS4 sales have already dropped significantly.

I loved the first MGS game. When I got my PS2, MGS2 was one of the first games I tried out. Thankfully, I only rented it. I played something like 6 hours into it and I remember spending nearly half that time watching the game rather than playing. The situation repeated with MGS3. And now everyone, even the hardcore fans, are saying you spend at least half of the game watching rather than playing. On top of that, Konami wouldn't let reviewers discuss the outrageous lengths and amounts of cutscenes.

I'm sorry, but I want to play games. I don't want to watch some glorified half-rate sci-fi CG anime flim when I can't stand anime to begin with.

These other games that you mention aren't that great in my opinion. Gears of War did nothing more than anger me all the time. I kept getting stuck to walls when I didn't want to. I have to hand it to the developers though, that game sure was pretty.

Well, thats your opinion. Fortunately, everyone disagrees with you.

Halo 3, for me at least, is the pinnacle example of a game that sold well, but wasn't that great. The multiplayer just isn't as fun as other games. When my friends get together to play games, we always play Halo online for only one reason - you are allowed to play 4 player split screen online. If Call of Duty 4 had this feature, Halo 3 would be sitting on the shelf collecting dust. There's been many occasions when all of us get together and watch each other play Call of Duty instead of playing Halo because it is so much more fun.

I don't know about you, but I think everyone else over the age of 18 has better things to do than get together and play videogames all day.

Halo 3 had a better story than Call of Duty 4 (which falls apart after the "Shock and Awe" stage), the gameplay was all around better.

Let me ask you, do you believe that sales constitute quality in everything?

It depends on the situation. Videogames cost a lot of money for what little you get out of them. People aren't going to just throw around $50-$60 on something that is crap. Hence the reason good games sell and bad games don't.

What about Windows?

Well, if you realistically look at Windows, it is better than OS X. And yes I am using my Mac right now. OS X does look nice and has a couple of nice features. Installing software is generally easier, but more and more software has Windows style installers and uninstallers. With OS X you generally have to spend twice as much on a computer that gives you less hardware than one costing half as much (or even less in the case of the Mac Pro). Windows will run on nearly anything. Windows has features that OS X doesn't, like system wide hardware acceleration for video playback, which means blu-ray discs can play on any low end system with dedicated or integrated graphics that can do bitstream decoding of H.264 video.

Look at my MacBook and HP. Apple replaced my first MacBook with this one last September. It was the middle white MacBook. 2.16GHz C2D, 1GB of RAM, 120GB HDD, "SuperDrive", and Intel GMA 950. After taxes it would cost $1406 in California (which is what my first system cost a few months earlier. A couple of weeks later in October I got the HP I have now. For $900 I had a 2GHz C2D, 2GB of RAM, 160GB HDD, DVD writer, GeForce 8400M GS, full size ExpressCard slot with ExpressCard TV tuner and remote (controls DirecTV, Dish, and digital cable boxes), fingerprint reader, memory card reader, firewire, USB, VGA, HDMI (HDCP certified I might add), S-Video, etc.

Now the difference is even greater. You can head over to HP and get their dv5z. 2.2GHz Turion Ultra (every bit as fast as the Core 2 Duo is now), AMD "Puma" platform with dedicated graphics (and hybrid crossfire mode to take advantage of the integrated GPU, giving the setup better 3D performance than the MacBook Pro), 3GB of RAM, 160 or 250GB HDD depending on the week, 1680x1050 15.4" glass screen, etc for around $1,000. For $200 more you get blu-ray.

So yes, overall, Windows PCs are better than Macs. Don't give me that "malware" crap either. I've been using Windows for more than a decade and a half and I have never had a virus. The only "spyware" you generally get on a regular basis is tracking cookies that you get with Firefox and Safari as well. Don't give me "driver issues" either. The only driver issue I ever had was right after XP came out, I wanted to see if my years old scanner would work. It didn't. Simple as that. Quality hardware does not have driver issues. Besides, I like getting constant driver updates from nvidia that improve my performance. My GeForce 8400M GS pushes UT3 smoother at higher settings now than it did at the games launch thanks to driver updates.

What about the legions of movies that make millions in the box office, but turned out to be absolute crap?

And what makes them crap exactly? Because some holier than thou critic says so? Or because some internet nerds that try to pass themselves as film buff say they're crap?

One thing you and most people on the internet seem to forget is that opinions on forums, such as yours, do not reflect what real people and the real majority feel. If the opinions of internet nerds everywhere actually reflected real world opinion, then Miyamoto would have God-like standing among everyone, everyone would love Nintendo games, every piece of music that isn't made by some "independent artist" in a garage recording music with a cheap microphone and an iBook would be crap, Europeans would hate Americans (quite the opposite, I have many European friends that like American people just hate our government, much the same way they like eachother but hate their governments as well), and we'd all have mobile phones and MP3 players that run Linux. I could go on and on about the ridiculous things that people who post on forums hold true and dear to their heart, but I don't have that much time.

But thankfully, your opinion and many others are in a very very small, yet overly vocal minority.

Anyway, back to movies. Just because you (and other people on the internet) think the movies are crap does not mean they are.

You and countless others seem to forget that people go to the movies or watch movies to be ENTERTAINED.

While you may think something like.. oh, I don't know, the Day After Tomorrow is crap, millions of others found it to be entertaining. And if millions found it entertaining and it made more money than you and your descendants 20 generations from now will ever see combined, then that means it was a good movie and it did what it was supposed to do, entertain people.

Does the fact that McDonalds serves billions mean they have the best food?

Nobody is going to say McDonalds has the best food. However, they are the best in the industry because you can walk in with less than $3.50 and walk out not even 10 minutes later with a full meal.

Do you still play with your POGs?

Pogs are worth a lot of money to the right people. Which means they're still good ;)

Your other points are all spot on. I'm not one of the "indie" mindset that means anything that sells well is mainstream drivel, but to say that anything that doesn't sell massively is no good - that's just incredibly absurd.

Nobody said anything about "massive sales". ICO and SoTC failed to even sell a reasonable amount. If Team ICO was owned by any other company, they would have been disbanded long ago. But Sony keeps them around because they know that they'll attract the people who will pay absurd prices for the PS3.

I dont remember anyone being excited about heavenly sword or lair. There was a lot of skepticism towards those games. Most people could tell that they were just cheap launch quality games, there was nothing special about them at all. LBP on the other hand is being talked about everywhere, its one of the most anticipated games of the year and everyone has loved what theyve played of it so far. It has people who hate Sony even taking notice. LBP is a major GOTY contender, not a piece of crap made to fill in dry spells like HS and Lair.

Wow, you must not have been online at all a year ago.

Before Heavenly Sword and Lair were released, nearly every PS3 owner was foaming at the mouth in rabid anticipation of those two titles. Those two titles alone were hyped up to be the turning point in the "war" that took the steam away from the Xbox360 and finally put the PS3 on top.

I remember going to gaming forums and reading about how excited everyone was for those two titles. How they couldn't wait and how they would both be the first two great games for the PS3.

Then they came out and they were massive failures and disappointments.

Now a year later, people try to downplay them.

I guess Sony's fans like to go back on their word and position much the same way Sony does with their hardware features and promises ;)

As raggedjimmi said, last year it was all about "just wait for this game" on the PS3. And those games happened to be Lair and Heavenly Sword. When one came out and disappointed, it turned to waiting for the next one. Then when that disappointed, everyone turned their attention to Ratchet and Clank. Which is kind of funny because, even though it was successful on the PS2, nobody ever really paid attention to it. But since it was all the PS3 had going for it until MGS4, everyone hyped it up. Then it failed to live up to expectations too, so it turned to "just wait for MGS4!"

The PS3 truly is this generations Nintendo64 and GameCube. With those two consoles you had the fanboys always saying "just wait for this to come out!" Then "it" finally came out and after a couple of weeks it was back to "I can't wait for this to come out!" again. But with the Xbox360 you have an entire library of good recent games, good games on the horizon, and countless good games from the last couple of years.

All you have on the PS3 is endless disappointing exclusives and watered down ports that the PS3 can't run properly because of the horrible architecture.

[spyker3292]

Though part of me thinks LBP is going to end up as another Heavenly Sword or Lair; games we're told to look forward to but end up missing the mark.

Would you at least believe me? Look forward to LBP. After playing it for almost 2 hours I just can't wait for more. Even without the level editor the built in levels were amazing. And it was just fun to stick stickers and leafs on my friend's sackboy and piss him off :P.

I disagree, it's one of the reasons why a game won't sell but lack of advertising, limited prints (on occasion), smaller console sales all contribute to low game sales.

Exactly! Sales mean nothing in the game industry. Well... sort of. But anyway Halo 3 sold kazillions and still sucks. Okami was loved by hundreds but thousands ignored it. Some games just aren't noticed.

[pcypert]

From what I've heard around, those lucky enough to play LBP are more happy with the game after having demoed it. I think this game will do well and I in no way like Sony. I wish it were coming to the 360 off the screens alone. I want inventive platformers now. I can kind of seeing this game being like the mario of NES or crash bandicoot of playstation days...

Paul

[michaelltd]

Halo 3 had a better story than Call of Duty 4 (which falls apart after the "Shock and Awe" stage), the gameplay was all around better.

You are dead wrong. Call of Duty 4's gameplay is FAR better because more people are playing it on Live than Halo according to the weekly Xbox Live statistics, and it has been that way consistently except for one week when GTA4 held that spot.

Ergo, Halo 3 stinks and COD4 is the best! Deal with it! :cool:;):p:D


I don't really think Halo 3 stinks, but I don't think it's nearly as good as it had sold. I feel that there are much better experiences to be had in other games, but I think Halo 3 is still a good game.

[mosx]

You are dead wrong. Call of Duty 4's gameplay is FAR better because more people are playing it on Live than Halo according to the weekly Xbox Live statistics, and it has been that way consistently except for one week when GTA4 held that spot.

Ergo, Halo 3 stinks and COD4 is the best! Deal with it! :cool:;):p:D


I don't really think Halo 3 stinks, but I don't think it's nearly as good as it had sold. I feel that there are much better experiences to be had in other games, but I think Halo 3 is still a good game.


If it wasn't any good it wouldn't have sold as much as it did.

Don't forget that Halo 3 sold more than CoD4 on all platforms combined ;)

I also want to add something

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuoRp32W5l0 LittleBigPlanet.

THIS is what Sony fanboys are waiting for!? I can't stop laughing. How the hell is that supposed to push the PS3 above the Xbox360? It looks as stupid as Yoshi's Story back on the N64!

[michaelltd]

If it wasn't any good it wouldn't have sold as much as it did.

Don't forget that Halo 3 sold more than CoD4 on all platforms combined ;)

I also want to add something

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuoRp32W5l0 LittleBigPlanet.

THIS is what Sony fanboys are waiting for!? I can't stop laughing. How the hell is that supposed to push the PS3 above the Xbox360? It looks as stupid as Yoshi's Island back on the N64!

My point is that more people are still playing COD4 than Halo 3. Plus, taking into account that Halo 3 did sell more than COD4 (as you said) but COD4 still gets played more definitely says something. On top of that, those statistics that prove that COD4 is played more only accounts for the Xbox 360 version and not the PS3 version.

[e²Studios]

If it wasn't any good it wouldn't have sold as much as it did.

Don't forget that Halo 3 sold more than CoD4 on all platforms combined ;)

I also want to add something

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuoRp32W5l0 LittleBigPlanet.

THIS is what Sony fanboys are waiting for!? I can't stop laughing. How the hell is that supposed to push the PS3 above the Xbox360? It looks as stupid as Yoshi's Island back on the N64!

By your responses I can pretty much say with certainty that you are the 360's target group. I say you are no more than 15 (or at least have the maturity of it), you love any FPS, any game with a plot or storyline is "garbage", and you like big bulky manly space marines that roam around overly bloom infected environments. I'm sure you love Forza since your type loves the "pimp my ride" arcady action it provides over the realism of a real driving simulator.

Just because a game sells doesn't mean its as good as the sales (GTA IV is a current example), there are many examples. In fact when others give you facts you just throw around FUD and nonsense. You might want to try stating your posts as OPINION, becuase they sure as hell are not factual.

Congratulations, your immaturity and trolling has landed you on my ban list. That list is exactly 1 member long now. Next time try stating facts that are actually backed up by proof and not just your opnions.

If you get anything from this remember that your opinions are not facts, they are just your opinions. Many in here have tried to give you facts backed by this thing called proof. Though I think with your maturity level you will probably just repond to this in your normal troll like fashion.

[GFLPraxis]

Yoshi's Island looked stupid?

Mosx, you officially have no idea what you are talking about. Bug off and stop trolling like you usually do.

[michaelltd]

EDIT: [Nevermind, I'm not even going to try to remotely "defend" him.]

[mosx]

My point is that more people are still playing COD4 than Halo 3. Plus, taking into account that Halo 3 did sell more than COD4 (as you said) but COD4 still gets played more definitely says something. On top of that, those statistics that prove that COD4 is played more only accounts for the Xbox 360 version and not the PS3 version.

So how many people are still playing, or even completed, the single player mode of CoD4?

Plus CoD4 has had a more steady flow of multiple maps being released for it than Halo 3. Halo 3 hasn't had much since it was released.

But again, how many people completed the single player game of CoD4?

By your responses I can pretty much say with certainty that you are the 360's target group. I say you are no more than 15 (or at least have the maturity of it), you love any FPS, any game with a plot or storyline is "garbage", and you like big bulky manly space marines that roam around overly bloom infected environments. I'm sure you love Forza since your type loves the "pimp my ride" arcady action it provides over the realism of a real driving simulator.

Your post is full of irony. You accuse me of being immature. Then you go and you do the usual "trolling" and "you're on my ignore list!" crap. That reminds me of that cop that was supposed to be demonstrating gun safety and shot himself in the process.

Anyway, try to act like an adult please.

No, I don't like only FPS. In fact, I'm picky because there are so many out there. I like UT3, Half-Life 2, Halo, but I couldn't stand Killzone because, as I said, it was so terrible it was funny.

I love good stories. Hence the reason I like Half-Life 2. Grand Theft Auto Vice City and San Andreas had very well written stories too.

Final Fantasy 6 probably had the best story of any video game so far. Then you look at Final Fantasy X.. the main character is a "dream" that has teenage angst/daddy issues that cries every time he thinks of how his daddy left him when he was a kid. Then you don't find out who the real "boss" is until 90% of the way through the game. Then it turns out to be a little glowing spider that can't even kill you, you just sit there and hack away at it until it dies.

Then you have Final Fantasy 12. You could have cut the characters down to Basch and that princess I can't remember her name, and it would have been exactly the same game. The only real problem 12 had was that it all but 2 of the characters were essentially useless and the battle system was terrible.

Show me a game with a GOOD story. Not some glorified anime story that doesn't make sense and is laughably bad, like FFX.

Just because a game sells doesn't mean its as good as the sales (GTA IV is a current example), there are many examples. In fact when others give you facts you just throw around FUD and nonsense. You might want to try stating your posts as OPINION, becuase they sure as hell are not factual.

Hah, nobody in this thread has given me facts. One person tried with the whole Insomniac thing, but of course, that was wrong too.

GTA4 is basically universally loved. In fact, the only people who don't like it are those who tend to like Japanese games more. as I said before, they are a very very small and overly vocal minority.

GTA4 sold great because it is a fantastic game. Everyone and their brother likes it. Only those who have bad taste in games do not.

Congratulations, your immaturity and trolling has landed you on my ban list. That list is exactly 1 member long now. Next time try stating facts that are actually backed up by proof and not just your opnions.

And this is where the irony kicks in.

Everything I said can be backed up by wikipedia and a quick google search. Its not my fault you don't know how to use either.

If you get anything from this remember that your opinions are not facts, they are just your opinions. Many in here have tried to give you facts backed by this thing called proof. Though I think with your maturity level you will probably just repond to this in your normal troll like fashion.

Again, the irony.

As I said, everything I've stated can be backed up by going to wikipedia or spending 5 seconds on google.

Just because you can't handle the fact that certain PS games are terrible and, as a result, didn't sell well even though you like them does not make me a troll or "speaking an opinion".

If a game doesn't sell well despite a massive ad campaign and word of mouth by the very vocal fanbase, that means it is a BAD GAME. Simple.

Yoshi's Island looked stupid?

Mosx, you officially have no idea what you are talking about. Bug off and stop trolling like you usually do.

I meant Yoshi's Story actually, and I'll be editing my post to reflect that.

Yoshi's Island actually did have good gameplay, despite the overly childish graphics and characters.

Yoshi's Story was easily one of the worst games of all time and LBP seems to be exactly the same thing with different characters.

God I remember getting Yoshi's Story. My girlfriend at that time just HAD to have it. So we went to Target, bought it.. an hour later we had beat it twice and were back at the store arguing with the store manager to get her money back.

Yoshi's Story is one of those truly terrible games.

[michaelltd]

So how many people are still playing, or even completed, the single player mode of CoD4?

Plus CoD4 has had a more steady flow of multiple maps being released for it than Halo 3. Halo 3 hasn't had much since it was released.

But again, how many people completed the single player game of CoD4?

The Xbox Live statistics reflect what games are being played most when players are logged into Xbox Live, which means both Single and Multiplayer. Whether people actually beat either of those games or not is irrelevent. Call of Duty 4 is being played by more people.

As for map packs, Halo 3 has the free Cold Storage Map, Legendary Map Pack, and the free Heroic Map pack. Call of Duty 4 has had one map pack called the Variety Map Pack. There are currently more map packs for Halo 3. On top of that, it only costs 600 Points to get all those Halo 3 maps and it costs 800 points to get just the one COD4 map pack. So your argument of map packs is false. Call of Duty 4 is still being played by more people despite less map packs.

Conclusion? Call of Duty 4 is being played by more people, so it would seem more people feel that COD4's gameplay is all around better. ;)

[mosx]

The Xbox Live statistics reflect what games are being played most when players are logged into Xbox Live, which means both Single and Multiplayer. Whether people actually beat either of those games or not is irrelevent. Call of Duty 4 is being played by more people.

As for map packs, Halo 3 has the free Cold Storage Map, Legendary Map Pack, and the free Heroic Map pack. Call of Duty 4 has had one map pack called the Variety Map Pack. There are currently more map packs for Halo 3. On top of that, it only costs 600 Points to get all those Halo 3 maps and it costs 800 points to get just the one COD4 map pack. So your argument of map packs is false. Call of Duty 4 is still being played by more people despite less map packs.

Conclusion? Call of Duty 4 is being played by more people, so it would seem more people feel that COD4's gameplay is all around better. ;)

I guess its just those of us who are intelligent enough to be playing games on PCs rather than consoles that get more maps for CoD4 ;)

Anyway, feel free to twist it however you like ;) I won't stop you. We all know who is truly right here.

[michaelltd]

I guess its just those of us who are intelligent enough to be playing games on PCs rather than consoles that get more maps for CoD4 ;)

Anyway, feel free to twist it however you like ;) I won't stop you. We all know who is truly right here.

Oh yeah! I forgot that COD4 is on Windows and Mac OS X as well, which means even more people are playing COD4 than Halo 3 despite Halo 3 outselling all versions of COD4 combined as you said. Thanks for adding to my point. :)


We all know who is truly right here.

Yes we do. Maybe you'll have better luck next time. ;)

[mosx]

Oh yeah! I forgot that COD4 is on Windows and Mac OS X as well, which means even more people are playing COD4 than Halo 3 despite Halo 3 outselling all versions of COD4 combined as you said. Thanks for adding to my point. :)

Call of Duty 4 isn't on Mac OS X yet. And its being ported by Aspyr, so I'm sure it'll run about 1/3 as good on OS X as it does on the same hardware under Windows.

I didn't prove any point. But like I said, feel free to think whatever you wish.

People who think they're right when they're not only look foolish ;) You remember that while you keep thinking you're right.

Yes we do. Maybe you'll have better luck next time. ;)

As I said, "keep thinking that" ;)

[2nyRiggz]

Everything I said can be backed up by wikipedia and a quick google search. Its not my fault you don't know how to use either.


This is the start of your fail right here...


Note: You never said anything about IPs being owned by sony(in fact I told you that)...you just ran on about Insomniac is a 3rd party company that can leave at a drop of a dime.....I then corrected you on your error and you still ran on...I'm sure you watch E3 sony press conference and the Jack dude introduced their 1st party developer INSOMNIAC!


Bless

[takao]

what games sales are related to quality ? i think that has been proven wrong over and over again.. if true ... Paradox Games, Matrix Games would be sitting there in a huge hall making super shows
and SSI would be still around and not activision, ubisoft and EA

oh and i have already clocked in nearly 50 hours in final fantasy tactics A2 and i friggin hate the final fantasy main series

(oh and there is enough reason to hate on gta4 ... for example it's rubbish controls ... play 20 hours of the Scarface port for the Wii and then play GTA4 on the PS3 ... it's like typing on your keyboard with your 2 elbows and forehead .. blind folded ... and holding your 11th and 12th beer for today in your hands ... while being slashed over your back with a whip ... while being forced into listening to Coldplay

[legacyb4]

Gran Turismo 5

Agreed. IMO there were three big things that the PS3 had going for it. One, BlueRay. Still is the cheapest good BlueRay player out. Second, MGS4. As we can see, that's doing very well around the world, except in Europe. Then, it was FFXIII. Now that's another one down. PS3 only has MGS4 and BlueRay. Oh and it has Resistance.

[michaelltd]

(oh and there is enough reason to hate on gta4 ... for example it's rubbish controls ... play 20 hours of the Scarface port for the Wii and then play GTA4 on the PS3 ... it's like typing on your keyboard with your 2 elbows and forehead .. blind folded ... and holding your 11th and 12th beer for today in your hands ... while being slashed over your back with a whip ... while being forced into listening to Coldplay

lol, sheesh, that sounds pretty bad. :P

--

I shall now attempt to bring the thread back to the original topic...

You know, I've never really got into playing Final Fantasy. I have wanted to for years, but just never gotten around to it. I've never played VII, but I did play "III" (Is it VI in Japan? I can't remember.) on SNES a very long time ago at a friend's house but never got the time to finish it.

I've been hoping for a Final Fantasy VII remake (for PS3 or 360, whichever) that would look close to Advent Children, so that I can first experience the game without the jarring visual change of yesteryear when next to that movie.

At any rate, I may get Final Fantasy XIII, but not sure which system. It may just come down to which system has the more interesting accomplishments since most likely at this point the two versions should be extremely identical everywhere else. I am interested in trying out the Trophy system of PS3, so perhaps I'll get that version.

[MacRumorUser]

I can't believe your all still feeding him. That's one mega hungry troll ;)

[spyker3292]

If it wasn't any good it wouldn't have sold as much as it did.

Don't forget that Halo 3 sold more than CoD4 on all platforms combined ;)

I also want to add something

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuoRp32W5l0 LittleBigPlanet.

THIS is what Sony fanboys are waiting for!? I can't stop laughing. How the hell is that supposed to push the PS3 above the Xbox360? It looks as stupid as Yoshi's Story back on the N64!

I'll repeat. SALES MEAN NOTHING. Halo 3 was just over hyped and bad/stupid. I'll also repeat. You truly have to play Little Big Planet to actually like it. The videos mean nothing, nothing at all. After playing it with my 360 fanboy friend he is pretty much forcing me to buy it. Not like I wouldn't buy it ;). I love feeding trolls :P.

[TBi]

I can't believe your all still feeding him. That's one mega hungry troll ;)

*Feeds MacRumorUser instead

[MacRumorUser]

*Feeds MacRumorUser instead

:p


Halo 3 was just over hyped and gay.

Can we stop using gay to mean bad/stupid. It's bad enough on other forums and on PSN & Xbox live without having to listen to it here...

I mean, fair enough if Master Chief was greasing himself up like some KY piggy and riding bareback all over the emissary, but as he wasn't lets drop the g word.

[spyker3292]

Halo 3 was just over hyped and bad/stupid.
There we go ;).

[MacRumorUser]

There we go ;).

much better and appreciated ;):)

[Antares]

The MS fanboys are clearly gay thanks to the FFXIII announcement. The PS fanboys, quite the opposite. But does it really matter? I don't think it's a "kick in the nuts" to Sony. As other people said, the PS3 is still getting the game. It would be a different story if the game was going 360 exclusive...

There's plenty to be gay about on the PS3 side..Plenty of potentially great exclusive games still coming.

The trend for the future is that third party games will likely always be multi-platform. First and Second party games will be exclusives. Unless Squenix goes second party, I expect most of their future games to me multi-system.

[MacRumorUser]

There's plenty to be gay about

indeed :) a lot to be cheery about.

But your right, it's not a big deal for existing ps3 owners as it's not an exclusive, and I also feel the same way about third party developers and multi-platforms.

[sikkinixx]

There! Are you all happy? Everyone whining about the title evidently doesn't read teh interwebz or watch youtube or acknowledge the fanboy explosion this caused upon it's release which was thus reflected in the sarcastic over the top title so now it's the P.C. lets not offend bitter/disappointed Sony loyalists nor stoke up jubilant MS fans nor somehow offend casual Nintendo players who simply wonder "so... when does Wii Music come out?"


*pout*

[stainlessliquid]

lol, sheesh, that sounds pretty bad. :P

--

I shall now attempt to bring the thread back to the original topic...

You know, I've never really got into playing Final Fantasy. I have wanted to for years, but just never gotten around to it. I've never played VII, but I did play "III" (Is it VI in Japan? I can't remember.) on SNES a very long time ago at a friend's house but never got the time to finish it.

I've been hoping for a Final Fantasy VII remake (for PS3 or 360, whichever) that would look close to Advent Children, so that I can first experience the game without the jarring visual change of yesteryear when next to that movie.

At any rate, I may get Final Fantasy XIII, but not sure which system. It may just come down to which system has the more interesting accomplishments since most likely at this point the two versions should be extremely identical everywhere else. I am interested in trying out the Trophy system of PS3, so perhaps I'll get that version.

I recently played FF7 again on my PSP. Its actually pretty cool if you play it on a handheld, somehow it feels "modern". The only time it feels dated is during the FMV, which looks terrible by todays standards. Its still a great game and the artistry and details of the prerendered backgrounds put most games of today to shame (the way the background artists brought to life all the houses and neighborhoods is still amazing, I have yet to see a game that pays so much attention to the intricate details of how an NPC might live its everyday life through room decoration).

[michaelltd]

I recently played FF7 again on my PSP. Its actually pretty cool if you play it on a handheld, somehow it feels "modern". The only time it feels dated is during the FMV, which looks terrible by todays standards. Its still a great game and the artistry and details of the prerendered backgrounds put most games of today to shame (the way the background artists brought to life all the houses and neighborhoods is still amazing, I have yet to see a game that pays so much attention to the intricate details of how an NPC might live its everyday life through room decoration).

That's pretty cool. I don't have a PSP though. :(

I'm still gonna wait out and hope for a remake though. Gotta experience such a thing on an HDTV that I'm hoping to get in a month! :)

[fiercetiger224]

Final Fantasy sucks like it's been sucking after FFX.

The end. :p

[asxtb]

When one person calls you a troll, take it with a grain of salt. When everyone calls you a troll, hmm... Maybe you are a troll!

We should start a thread... Who has only 'one person' on their ignore list! You can count me in!

Back on topic, last night there were about 6 360 RPG commercials in a 30 minute period on TV. MS is really going after the Japanese market hard.

[sikkinixx]

When one person calls you a troll, take it with a grain of salt. When everyone calls you a troll, hmm... Maybe you are a troll!

We should start a thread... Who has only 'one person' on their ignore list! You can count me in!

Back on topic, last night there were about 6 360 RPG commercials in a 30 minute period on TV. MS is really going after the Japanese market hard.

which is strange considering one of, if not the biggest RPG, in FFXIII isn't coming out on 360 in Japan. One day they will just give up and focus on their stronghold in the good ol' US of A.

[evan g]

Well when I saw E3, I noticed a bit of a trade off between Sony and MS. I have never really cared much for Final Fantasy (I got FFX for the PS2, but just couldn't finish it because the sphere grid was too dang confusing), so the blow didn't really hit me as hard as it did this guy (http://youtube.com/watch?v=78cGFzjJIwc), haha.

(Don't get me wrong FFX was beautiful and addicting, I just couldn't beat it)


I DID in fact notice that BioShock is coming to the PS3, which is great, because it was a MS only game, and now the PS3 has it.

Based on how much I care about both games, I'd say it was a pretty square trade.

[Dagless]

Bioshock wasn't a 360 exclusive though.

[e²Studios]

Bioshock wasn't a 360 exclusive though.

No one told Joe McDonagh that!

However, this is an Xbox 360 exclusive and it's coming out on PC. That's the way it is on Bioshock.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=166516

It was a 360 Exclusive, just as FFXIII was a PS3 exclusive. Now both are multi-platform. In fact they are similar in another way... FF would have been released on PC, just as Bioshock was.

Happy to correct you on that one Jimmi, now go watch more Hoff videos! :p

[Dagless]

It's been out on Steam for an awfully long time :confused:

Don't PC's count in the exclusivity wars?

[MacRumorUser]

It's been out on Steam for an awfully long time :confused:

Don't PC's count in the exclusivity wars?

no... its seems it generally is meant as 'console' exclusive.

[Dagless]

Ah I see. I always took "exclusivity" to mean "buy our system or you will never play this game rarrarrar". And then there's the iPhone Bioshock :rolleyes:

[evan g]

Ah I see. I always took "exclusivity" to mean "buy our system or you will never play this game rarrarrar". And then there's the iPhone Bioshock :rolleyes:

that's what i thought too. :p

[sikkinixx]

It's been out on Steam for an awfully long time :confused:

Don't PC's count in the exclusivity wars?

no because generally the PC version is far superior to the console version so it's not really fair...

[stainlessliquid]

if PC's counted then the 360 would have practically no exclusive games. At least no exclusives worth playing.

[evan g]

if PC's counted then the 360 would have practically no exclusive games. At least no exclusives worth playing.

no kidding.

[Dagless]

As opposed to how many worthwhile PS3 exclusives? :rolleyes:
Jimmi defending 360?!

[stainlessliquid]

mgs4 and.... thats it. But thats still 1 more than what the 360 has, which is zero now that Mass Effect came out on PC. All the greatest games to come out this generation that I can think of are already multiplatform, with the exception of MGS4.

[MacRumorUser]

mgs4 and.... thats it. But thats still 1 more than what the 360 has

in your opinion. ;)

I have a lot of games that are only on the 360 which I consider to be AAA quality, and tbh a lot of us console owners simply don't give ***** about what games come out on PC, as we prefer to game on a console for a number of reasons, including the fact it generally costs a lot less to buy a console than a decent graphics card on pc, which probably need updating again one year down the line in order to play a game baring any resemblance to the screen shots. At least with a console your set for a number of years without having that hassle. :)

[takao]

in your opinion. ;)

I have a lot of games that are only on the 360 which I consider to be AAA quality, and tbh a lot of us console owners simply don't give ***** about what games come out on PC, as we prefer to game on a console for a number of reasons, including the fact it generally costs a lot less to buy a console than a decent graphics card on pc, which probably need updating again one year down the line in order to play a game baring any resemblance to the screen shots. At least with a console your set for a number of years without having that hassle. :)

currently graphics card are so cheap it's not even funny any more .. last years 8800 GT for 89 euro ? no offense but that's only 20 euro more than the price of a single new game for a HD console


ignoring the fact that PC games are cheaper from the beginning and drop to lower budget prices in a shorter amount of time

[MacRumorUser]

currently graphics card are so cheap it's not even funny any more .. last years 8800 GT for 89 euro ?

EXACTLY!! LAST YEARS 8800GT ;)

And at €89 you seem to be able to get them much cheaper than me here

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=349120
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=345990
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=345990

For example...

[TBi]

EXACTLY!! LAST YEARS 8800GT ;)

And at €89 you seem to be able to get them much cheaper than me here

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=349120
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=345990
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=345990

For example...

The 4850 is about the same price and a lot better for the money. Too bad their is no Mac support.

[evan g]

Actually I think the only exclusive that 360 has going for it is Halo 3, which is either gonna show up on PC (dought it) or disappear. I will admit that Halo 3 wasn't all it was cracked up to be.

[stainlessliquid]

The 8800GT is easily capable of console quality graphics. If all you care about is having PC games look as good as they do on a 360 at 720p then an 8800gt is fine for as long as the 360 is around. The new high end cards are capable of exceeding a 360 by a huge margin, you dont have to upgrade all the time unless you care about having the highest quality settings in all the new games that come out (which look better than console games already, like Crysis)

[XNine]

Seems like the voice of reason must present himself again.

Sorry, but I did play it. Whether you want to believe so or otherwise.

I'm just one of those people that does not automatically like something because it comes from Japan. I like games that are GOOD.

The games were not liked "automatically because they were from Japan." They were LOVED because they were new, innovative, and different from the rest of the gaming world during the times they were released.

Apparently ICO wasn't aimed at anyone, considering it was a commercial flop.

I'd definitely take Halo or Grand Theft Auto over ICO any way. Why? because they're FUN.

ICO was boring, it honestly didn't look that good (sorry, but modern Japanese artwork/anime is terrible, so much so that even Japanese that are not otaku think so).

ICO and SotC were not mega-sellers because the advertising for them were not huge. They were developed by a small studio. Game critics rejoiced these titles, but in the end, when it comes down to it, unless your playing hundreds of commercials a day, or had a previous installment of the game which was mega-successful, you won't get a blockbuster. Take a marketing class, you might be surprised how much your teenage-angst apathetic crap attitude is so painfully wrong.

As well, neither of the titles sported Anime art or cinemas, so your entire argument there isn't just shot full of holes, it's ****ing dead. Your probably one of the many people without taste who worshipped DragonBall Z, while the many who knew quality anime regarded it as nothing but garbage.

Games are meant to be fun. Not boring.

Fun to some is going to a mall and shoplifting. Fun to others is laying in a hammock and reading a book. It comes down to individuality, which, unfortunately, it appears you have none. You get yours, recycled and remanufactured from 360 fanboy forums.



Here we go with that stupid argument again.

Look, we're not talking about Nintendo systems where you get 1 or 2 good games a year.

On the Playstation and Xbox, game sales directly relate to the quality of the game. If a game is not good people will not buy it. Not very many people bought ICO, so therefore it is not a very good game by default.

YOU might like it, but that doesn't change the fact that nobody else does.

If a game does not sell well then it is not a good game. Simple.

With your argument then, you would be saying a movie such as Fight Club was not a good film because it did a terrible job in theaters. Yet the movie has one of the biggest cult followings since Blade Runner and made more than it's fair share of money back in VHS/DVD sales.

And don't be an ass. "doesn't change the fact that nobody else does." Where do you get this ****? Are your parents not paying enough attention to you? Girls ignoring you in school? TONS of people, including the critics loved those titles. Your argument thus far is totally fail.

Let me know when Gears of War 2 hits the PS3 ;) Let the rest of us know when a game with such beautiful graphics, shoddy gameplay, terrible story line and plot, and redundant gameplay comes to the PS3 as well.

And why will LBP be a "good game"? Has anything Sony made recently turned out good? No? Thats right.

It's an innovative and a new start for games. It relies heavily upon it's community for the creation of it's world, not just developers. Try getting anything like that out of MS. You won't.


I did play them. I don't like Japanese games any more. I used when I was younger, but now they're just annoying, boring, and the artwork drives me nuts because anime looks like a 5 year old drew it.

Oh, and the sales PROVE that the games were bad. People not buying the game = bad game. If you can't accept that fact you shouldn't be playing video games or arguing in this forum.

See a few paragraphs above. Sales mean **** for quality. Just because the Dodge Viper only sells a few amount of cars doesn't mean they aren't of extreme precision and craftsmanship.

Where are Sony's "AAA exclusives"? Thats right, they have none. Gran Turismo will get beaten by Forza 2 and 3. MGS will eventually make it to the Xbox360, seeing as how the sales of the PS3 version are plummeting and they need to recover development costs.

Obviously you don't read. MGS4 took the top selling game for the month of June, and pushed 200,000 more PS3's out store doors than 360's in June. http://www.411mania.com/games/columns/80967
Also, if Hideo says "No Xbox 360" he means it.

Forza is garbage compared to GT. GT is used as a prototype and testing environment for several real world auto manufacturers. GT is also the most successful driving/racing-sim franchise in the world.

The strength of the Xbox360 comes in a variety of forms. One is that it will have 1,000 games available by the end of the year. The Playstation3 has what? A fraction of that? The Xbox360 already has countless AAA exclusive titles available that the PS3 has nothing to counter with, like Forza, the original Gears of War, Halo 3. The Xbox360 has almost full backwards compatibility with Xbox titles (just look at the list available at xbox.com) versus no backwards compatibility with PS2 titles on the PS3.

Yawn. Halo 3-garbage, over-polished (hey, look at that rock in the cave, it has saran wrap all over it!) and utterly under disappointing multi-player. Gears, just the same. Forza gets owned by GT every generation. Funny, cos every PS and PS2 titles I own has played without a hitch on the PS3. The Xbox 360 most certainly does not have "almost full backwards compatibility." Sorry. Your just wrong.

When you look at the Xbox360 now, you see a vast library of games. The Xbox360 is literally the Playstation/Playstation2 of this generation and the PS3 is the N64/Gamecube of this generation.

When I look at the 360, I see a flawed system (I owned THREE of them, all three failed due to ****** manufacturing and design), and something with very few titles that are even worth a damn. It also has a YEAR on the PS3. What does it not have? Native wireless, ability to install another OS, ability to natively run Folding@Home, native HD movie support, and a high-capacity of backward compatibility for two generations worth of games. Not to mention that there were more games on the PS1 than on the original Xbox, Xbox 360, N64, Gamecube, Wii, and all of Sega's consoles combined. (The total was near 8,000 titles... to be more accurate, 7,987 titles.)

You see high quality titles on the Xbox360 like Gears of War, Halo 3, Forza, PGR, and many others I'm too lazy to type. On the PS3 you see crap like Lair, Heavenly Sword, the snooze fest that is MGS 4 (I'm sorry, but MGS2 and 3 bored me to tears, and MGS4 spends roughly HALF the game watching!?). Sorry, but MGS4 owns anything the 360 will every put out. Well, that's my opinion, but there isn't another game studio out there that can put the depth that the MGS series has into their games, so I won't worry about it.

The Xbox360 has other strengths too. Such as the ability to play your own music in ANY game, not just a select few. It has the largest on-demand library of HD video. The better online service, streaming Netflix, etc. Yeah, XBL is better, but it also costs money, and it may not matter to you, but those of us who have rent and car payments, money is money. Why the hell would I want to play my music over most games? It's really quite pointless, and even when I have it wasn't in a game that had any kind of intensity to it. Netflix should never be streamed. Rent, rip, return as they say...

So far, Sony has failed to deliver on nearly every promise they have made. Not just with the PS3, but they never delivered on any of their promises with the PS2 either!

Its amazing people can even trust Sony when they've treated their customers worse than anyone else in the industry. Examples please.

People always talk bad about Microsoft, but at least when they tell you they will do something they stand by their word and do it. Yup, they promise they'll give you another shoddy console after your first one, two, or five burn out, but the return cycle time is about 3 weeks. And their tech support makes about 8 bucks an hour, which means you get **** service from people who don't know how to even set up their own home networks. SO AWESOME. :rolleyes:

But anyway. The Xbox360 has more games than the PS2 did at this very same point in its life. It has far more than the PS3 does. That is a fact.

Unfortunately for you, the PS2 had about 10,000 titles. Try again in another 9,000 titles or so. Also, moot point, 360 has been out a year longer. Which means far longer time for development and release.

So, all in all your "facts" and hardcore attitude really just come out to be nothing more than crap. Try again when you have a more informed opinion. And BTW, I've been gaming for about 24 years now, so any argument you can try and come up with will more than likely be just as pitiful as the ones you've had in here already, which I've just quite obviously destroyed.

Alright guys, see ya again in 6 months. Don't let this kid think he's something big, cos he's nothin but a mis-informed and ignorant troll.

Shout outs to 2ny, MRU, Ragged, and the rest of the ol' boys.

[takao]

EXACTLY!! LAST YEARS 8800GT ;)

And at €89 you seem to be able to get them much cheaper than me here

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=349120
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=345990
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=345990

For example...

http://www.alternate.at/html/productDetails.html?artno=JBXXLD

and the ati 3850 is currently priced at 75 euroes

http://www.alternate.at/html/productDetails.html?artno=JBXUM4

christ why are graphics cards so expensive in ireland compared to here ? and austria isn't even as cheap as germany
the normal price for the gt8800 is around 110-125 euro but at that i would rather get the ati 4850 for 135-145 euro

edit2: and it's this year gt8800 within the mac world ;)

[evan g]

TO ONIZUKA: holy giant-post-i-can-barely-skim-through, batman! but seriously, good post. you said everything that I would never had taken the time to type lol. :D

i am a bum

[angelneo]

I can't believe I missed this thread.

On the original topic, I fear for the fact that supporting 2 platform will bring down the technical aspect of the game. They can't really go all out and milk the juice out of each console and expect the same to come out for the other. This is just bad news for FFXIII. I am really waiting eagerly for FFXIII but this is sort of a letdown for me.

[sikkinixx]

I can't believe I missed this thread.

On the original topic, I fear for the fact that supporting 2 platform will bring down the technical aspect of the game. They can't really go all out and milk the juice out of each console and expect the same to come out for the other. This is just bad news for FFXIII. I am really waiting eagerly for FFXIII but this is sort of a letdown for me.

not to mention PS3 owners will have to wait until Squeenix gets around to porting the 360 version which ain't gonna happen until AFTER it releases in Japan.... ugh... *sigh* no world wide launch? come on...

[MacRumorUser]

^ Actually none of us know how far in development the 360 version actually is. It might not be that far behind its brethren.

[ZiggyPastorius]

FFXIII is coming to the 360 according to the MS E3 conference.

Megaton announcement!



edit: A NeoGaf poster made a good point, there is no mention of the game on 360 is Japan, only NA/Europe. Sony is keeping it the their homeland?

Good. Anything that takes away some of Sony's market-share/power is a good thing.

[2nyRiggz]

^ Actually none of us know how far in development the 360 version actually is. It might not be that far behind its brethren.

I've read somewhere that the announcement was a on the spot thing and they haven't even begin on the Xbox360(plus they also said they won't start until the PS3 version is complete) version so in reality the 360 version will be delaying this game a lot.

I'm hoping Sony works out some sort of a deal and push their version out the the door first.....because its going to be a long wait my RPG friends.


Bless

[e²Studios]

Good. Anything that takes away some of Sony's market-share/power is a good thing.

Have you been under a rock this generation? The Wii is dominating the industry, and "exclusives" on both sides are going multi-platform... Sony Hasn't had market-share dominance since 2007.

[ZiggyPastorius]

Have you been under a rock this generation? The Wii is dominating the industry, and "exclusives" on both sides are going multi-platform... Sony Hasn't had market-share dominance since 2007.

I didn't say Sony was the leading gaming platform, I said Sony's market share and power. Believe it or not, Sony does things other than gaming, and they do have a lot of money and power, even in the gaming industry.

[sikkinixx]

I've read somewhere that the announcement was a on the spot thing and they haven't even begin on the Xbox360(plus they also said they won't start until the PS3 version is complete) version so in reality the 360 version will be delaying this game a lot.

I'm hoping Sony works out some sort of a deal and push their version out the the door first.....because its going to be a long wait my RPG friends.


Bless

They won't. Squeenix loves the moneys and even if the PS3 version was ready before the 360 (internationally I mean) MS would likely pay up if they had to.

Really this deal is just a blow to Sony. In 2 years time how many people that are FFXIII target audience (ie. gamers) are gonna be going "hm... well I wanna get a new system! PS2 just ain't doing it no more!! PS3 or 360?!". Hardly any. This just means people who HAVE 360's and just wanted a PS3 solely for FFXIII don't need to buy one.

But... that being said... 2 years from now (I'm gonna guess that's when FFXIII will be out world wide) this might be less of an issue. PS3 has outsold the 360 in all three regions for a few months now, that will obviously change up and down in NA and less frequently in Europe (barring a big shift). But if Sony keeps chewing away at the 360 lead world wide for 2 years, who knows how big the install gap will be?

Maybe Squeenix will love the money SO much they will pull a Capcom and downgrade the hell out of the game and put it on Wii (have you seen Dead Rising on Wii?! ugh...)

[JackAxe]

Errr, they downgraded Dead Rising to a Cube my friend, not a Wii. A true Wii port would be fairly close to the 360 DR at SD.

Wat does it say about the 360, when one of its exclusives is being ported to a GameCube engine?

You people and your 360-letist snobbery. ;) When it comes down to it, the 360 visually is not a huge leap over the Wii. It suffers from the same over use of facets, pixelated edges and blurred textures. They both need lots of eye candy to hide the flaws, the 360 just has more candy to spew out. The 360's biggest strength, is MS's buckets of cash to throw at, or buy out developers. It also helps that it looks better on these newer fixed pixel sets, the same TVs that have ushered in an era of fuzzy blocky vomit.

At least when the next consoles are introduce, higher-rez gaming will be old hat for the army of noobs that never gamed on a PC. The same waffles that are so pathetically enamored at the thought of HD gaming.

I don't like the fact that Capcom -- 2 years into the Wii's cycle -- is being CHEAP as hell and obviously taking a huge LAZY shortcut, but I'm sure this game will be FUN, so who cares if its visuals are Cuber-rific -- if that?

<]=)

[evan g]

I didn't say Sony was the leading gaming platform, I said Sony's market share and power. Believe it or not, Sony does things other than gaming, and they do have a lot of money and power, even in the gaming industry.

And Microsoft doesn't have any market share and power? MS also does other things than gaming too, if you haven't noticed... :p

If anything it should be MS who gets the share/power kicked out of them.

[stainlessliquid]

The wii is literally an overclocked gamecube, it has the same hardware but a slightly higher clock rate. Thats why wii games barely look any different than gamecube games (metroid is a good example, its pretty much identical to the gamecube game).

[e²Studios]

The wii is literally an overclocked gamecube, it has the same hardware but a slightly higher clock rate. Thats why wii games barely look any different than gamecube games (metroid is a good example, its pretty much identical to the gamecube game).

Considering Miyamoto said it himself, I agree. However it could be that the GCN had such a lackluster following that we never saw the true potential until now. For what it does the Wii performs well, so long as you put your expectations in check the Wii can be a rewarding console to play on.

Direct Miyamoto Quote
"The hardware is basically a GC. We've upgraded our development tools to new versions but, you can still use GC programs as they are. With that in mind, I thought we could remake GC titles for the Wii and modify them to work with the Wii remote so that they're more fun to play."

[JackAxe]

The wii is literally an overclocked gamecube, it has the same hardware but a slightly higher clock rate. Thats why wii games barely look any different than gamecube games (metroid is a good example, its pretty much identical to the gamecube game).

Sorry, I don't rely on playground tech-talk as being a reliable source of what's fact. ;)

It's just as much an overclocked Cube as a 9600 GT is an overclocked 7600 GT, if you get my drift? That's an ignorant way to look at things, but none the less, it still carries some truth. If you buy a 9600 GT and play a game that was designed for an earlier GPU, it will not only look the same, but it will run faster. Simply amazing at how that works.

When you overclock a CPU and GPU, they always use "more" power, not less. I guess the Wii is the exception to this rule and defies the laws of physics. :eek:

The texture quality in Prime 3 is noticeably better than both prequels. Prime 1 and 2 looked great for a Cube(console), but 3 was a clear and obvious step above. When you couple that with properly setup Wii controls, it's a huge upgrade over the Cube and its limiting controls.

Does your TV work properly? :) I'm just curious, because the textures were so much shaper and richer all around on Prime 3. How did you miss that?

But then again, I can see how you wouldn't see much of a difference between the Cube and Wii versions of Prime, because as a whole there's really not much difference between most games, just the rez and a few more effects here and there. I see the same CRAP all around, regardless of it being the latest PC game on my 30", or a Wii game.

I think that that most gamers suffer from some kind of selective blindness, as in they choose to ignore the bad on one game, while completely pointing it out on another. This probably goes back to my previous comment about gamers being infatuated with HD gaming, because for them, it's something new.

<]=)

[sikkinixx]

^

you sound like a bitter jaded old man who longs for the days of 8-bit glory :p

[stainlessliquid]

Sorry, I don't rely on playground tech-talk as being a reliable source of what's fact. ;)

It's just as much an overclocked Cube as a 9600 GT is an overclocked 7600 GT, if you get my drift? That's an ignorant way to look at things, but none the less, it still carries some truth. If you buy a 9600 GT and play a game that was designed for an earlier GPU, it will not only look the same, but it will run faster. Simply amazing at how that works.

When you overclock a CPU and GPU, they always use "more" power, not less. I guess the Wii is the exception to this rule and defies the laws of physics. :eek:

The texture quality in Prime 3 is noticeably better than both prequels. Prime 1 and 2 looked great for a Cube(console), but 3 was a clear and obvious step above. When you couple that with properly setup Wii controls, it's a huge upgrade over the Cube and its limiting controls.

Does your TV work properly? :) I'm just curious, because the textures were so much shaper and richer all around on Prime 3. How did you miss that?

But then again, I can see how you wouldn't see much of a difference between the Cube and Wii versions of Prime, because as a whole there's really not much difference between most games, just the rez and a few more effects here and there. I see the same CRAP all around, regardless of it being the latest PC game on my 30", or a Wii game.

I think that that most gamers suffer from some kind of selective blindness, as in they choose to ignore the bad on one game, while completely pointing it out on another. This probably goes back to my previous comment about gamers being infatuated with HD gaming, because for them, it's something new.

<]=)

So what youre saying is you dont believe Nintendos own words that its basically just gamecube hardware? What is factual about the Wii being just as good as the 360 at graphics and a 9600gt just being an overclocked 7600gt? Or Dead Rising being a gamecube port (why would they do that?)?

I dont have an hdtv so I play all my PS3 games in SD, and they look a hell of a lot better than any gamecube or ps2 game ever did on the same tv. Not to mention all the interactive effects like physics which cant be done on the Wii since the cpu is too weak (look at the physics in Force Unleashed on the 360/PS3 and then compare them to the Wii version, totally different despite putting a lot of effort into the Wii version).

[JackAxe]

:)

Sorry bud, but you really missed the point.

I was trying to put things into a frame that you might understand, you know an analogy.


So what youre saying is you dont believe Nintendos own words that its basically just gamecube hardware?


Basically is true, but what you're missing, is that it doesn't equate to being EXACTLY the same.

You should look for that article that talks about the Wii's CPU as in it was built from the ground up for power efficiency while maintain a high level of performance. This can't be done by simply overclocking. BUT, basically it's still the same CPU as the Cube, just like a Core 2 is basically a P3 to point out an extreme example.

I'll ramble further, maybe this time I'll find an explanation that will sink in.


What is factual about the Wii being just as good as the 360 at graphics...


HOLY MOLY, you misconstrued me BIG TIME. At this point I should probably just give up .

I never said just as good.

Anyways, that would imply that a Wii is on par with a 360, which for the record is not the case. But I can say a Wii at its basic level is similar to a 360. They both have Power PCs and GPUs developed during the same time period at ATI. Imagine that, they're brothers, the Wii's just special.

Before I ramble some more, I'm also not implying that a Wii can handle as many polygons as a 360.

Here's my original comment:
"A true Wii port would be fairly close to the 360 DR at SD."

This statement carries quite a bit of truth. Notice the word fairly.

If you look at the following screen shots of Dead Rising 360, hopefully you'll see what I see, that the Wii doesn't have to go far to achieve this look at SD. neither does a PS2 for that matter.

Look at this screenshot (http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/723/723292/dead-rising-20060803050650832.jpg). It looks like CRAP IMO. Now tell me why a Wii can't do this at SD, when this is something even a PS2 could manage?

Here's another screen (http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/723/723292/dead-rising-20060803050652879.jpg). Wow, this game looks great for a 360 title. Never understimate the power of a bottom of the barrel consumer gaming card, AKA, the x1600 variant.

If I had seen those screen shots with out reference, I could have easily mistaken them for some of the "HD" PS2 games, or PC games from almost a decade ago. They actually make this game look like VOMIT and sub par when compared to better games.

Now I see that even the Cube version of Dead Rising looks fine.


...and a 9600gt just being an overclocked 7600gt?


:) I'm just going to smile at you. :)

*FAIL!* :D

PLEASE GO BACK AND READ MY POST THIS TIME!



Or Dead Rising being a gamecube port (why would they do that?)?


Simple, Capcom stated in a press release that Dead Rising is being built on the same engine as RE4 Wii. Just so you know, that's a GameCube engine with added Wii waggle and pointing. Capcom did nothing to improve upon it graphically when they were first testing the Wii's ground for which games sold.

Why would Capcom do this? It keeps development cost down and their risk of loss low. They obviously still don't trust the Wii/Nintendo, or else they would be building an engine from the ground up, which is required to do a proper port of this game. The only true Wii game were' getting from them is SpyBorgs. BLAH! It's not even an in-house game.



I dont have an hdtv so I play all my PS3 games in SD, and they look a hell of a lot better than any gamecube or ps2 game ever did on the same tv.


You're really not missing anything, just widescreen. HD TVs are still hype, but they certainly save on space.

Unlike the Wii, the PS3 at least has the benefit of getting its ports from 360 or PC. Most developes assumed the Wii would fail and have yet to put in any true effort to make something good. The Wii has been vomited on by publishers looking for that old PS2 game to dust off, add waggle, make profit.

Now that the Wii is in the top position and most of us are fed up with lazy developers, this seems to be changing, maybe. The next generation of Wii games and a few already available, also look a lot better than any Cube or PS2 game. Not as good as a PS3 game of course, but still way better than anything from last generation.


Not to mention all the interactive effects like physics which cant be done on the Wii since the cpu is too weak (look at the physics in Force Unleashed on the 360/PS3 and then compare them to the Wii version, totally different despite putting a lot of effort into the Wii version).
:eek:

*SLAP* Have you been sleeping? Physics have been mainstay for a long time now. Many Wii games -- even some of the crap ones -- use Physics. It's a dedicated game machine and it CPU is WAY faster than some of my old PCs and they could handle physics just fine.

Every console from lsat genration had games that used physics and now you're trying to tell me they can't be done on the Wii, a more powerful console? Do you not see how ridiculous your comment is in this day and age?

This is more playground mentality.

I guess that because the Wii can't handle physics, games like Boom Blox aren't real?

Besides, the current trend is to offload physics onto the GPU and a Wii's GPU is way better at this sort of thing than a 360's proc as an example.

Anyways, nVidia upgraded their newer cards to do this when they bought Ageia(Physics for PC, 360, PS3, and WII), ATI users hacked their cards to use nVidia's effort, so it's feasible for all consoles, if they're not already doing it.

The Wii version of Forced Unleash. I have a few words about this game.

Force Unleash Wii is a "PS2" game with waggle, so of course it looks rather poorly when compare to the 360 and PS3 port.

It's rather convinient that the same developer working on the PS2 version, is also working on the Wii version. Have you ever heard of shared assets? That's what's happening here. Lucas Artst was being CHEAP! If they were sharing the assets from the PS3, the Wii version would be fairing much better, but chalk this game up to more developer laziness.

Look at Clone Wars, it's a Wii game, it looks way better than Forced Unleashed Wii. Why? Because they're only developing it for the Wii. I've notice a trend, Wii games that don't rely on PSP, or PS2 assets, look way better.

People in general are pretty naive about graphics. They seem to quickly forget about what was possible not only a few years back with technically weaker components.

<]=)

[stainlessliquid]

augh, too much wrong information based on assumptions, it would take me all day to point out all the wrong things

[chewietobbacca]

From what I see, Wii is more of a unique entertainment center without an equivalent in the market than an actual console of the same gen as the XBOX 360 and PS3. PS3 and 360 were from the get-go rivals in that they were the first truly online consoles that were mimicking PC capabilities. While the Wii certainly has similar features (internet browser, for example) - it is lacking in a lot of things hardware and software wise to compete. The Wii is selling largely because it provides a gaming experience for casual gamers whereas the PS3 and 360 were long targeted at the more enthusiast crowd.

How many people buy a Wii and only play Wii Sports and a few other simple games like that?

And anyone saying that the GPUs on the PS3 or 360 are better than PC ones are joking themselves. What tends to happen is that because the games are on a single platform, developers tend to optimize the game so they can squeeze more frame-rates while providing the same image. Down the line however, and as evidenced in recent Console -> PC ports, the PC capabilities allow the engine to be unlocked to have more features and settings not seen in consoles. This occurs in COD4 iirc as an example of a popular title.

What I do find interesting is how MS went with the ATI Xenos while the PS3 went with Nvidia's GPU. The ATI GPU was based on the X1k series while the Nvidia one was based on the 7-series. As time has gone on, the choice of MS going ATI seems to have paid off since the X1K series has aged much better than the 7-series (due to stronger shader performance, and shaders are where its at right now with game programming) and might be a reason why people have said that PS3 gaming performance on the same game as on the 360 seems to be less smooth.

[zap2]

Errr, they downgraded Dead Rising to a Cube my friend, not a Wii. A true Wii port would be fairly close to the 360 DR at SD.


I don't like the fact that Capcom -- 2 years into the Wii's cycle -- is being CHEAP as hell and obviously taking a huge LAZY shortcut, but I'm sure this game will be FUN, so who cares if its visuals are Cuber-rific -- if that?

<]=)

Yes, but RE4 looked amazing back in the day....and if Dead Rising ends up looking a little better then that, well it will be pass able.

[JackAxe]

augh, too much wrong information based on assumptions, it would take me all day to point out all the wrong things

Lazy! :)

Until you actually post with valid counter points, instead of throwing up nothing more than this cop-out, or misconstruing my comments as you have in your previous response, I'm going to "assume" that you don't have anything worth while to post.

<]=)

[JackAxe]

Yes, but RE4 looked amazing back in the day....and if Dead Rising ends up looking a little better then that, well it will be pass able.

I was taken back by the screen shots, since they were less detailed than RE4, but after seeing the 360 screenshots, I can see why this is the case.

<]=)

[ZiggyPastorius]

And Microsoft doesn't have any market share and power? MS also does other things than gaming too, if you haven't noticed... :p

If anything it should be MS who gets the share/power kicked out of them.

No, what Microsoft needs is to shape up their OS. Microsoft does plenty of things besides Windows that I like. I have to apologise, as I simply hate Sony (have for a long time) and don't buy any of their products (unless they are inside another product I buy, like a battery inside a computer). While the 360 is not my choice for gaming (The Wii is, even though I don't game), I'd prefer it over the PS3 any day. Basically, I'd like to see Sony go away, whereas Microsoft, as long as I can still use Mac OS X, I could care less.

[sikkinixx]

No, what Microsoft needs is to shape up their OS. Microsoft does plenty of things besides Windows that I like. I have to apologise, as I simply hate Sony (have for a long time) and don't buy any of their products (unless they are inside another product I buy, like a battery inside a computer). While the 360 is not my choice for gaming (The Wii is, even though I don't game), I'd prefer it over the PS3 any day. Basically, I'd like to see Sony go away, whereas Microsoft, as long as I can still use Mac OS X, I could care less.

so basically you're a troll, since you don't game but come to whine about Sony for no particular reason. *thumbs up*

[evan g]

so basically you're a troll, since you don't game but come to whine about Sony for no particular reason. *thumbs up*

*thumbs up enthusiasticly*

[michaelltd]

so basically you're a troll, since you don't game but come to whine about Sony for no particular reason. *thumbs up*

*thumbs up enthusiasticly*


*shrugs* :cool: *thumbs up*

[2nyRiggz]

yeah....ok then

[hillbilly voice] We don't take to kindly to ya kind around these parts....now I think its high time you get /HB voice

On a serious note....Thats just hating dude....thats exactly like saying "I hate MS bacause of Windows"


Bless

[JackAxe]

I'll be honest, I hate MS because of later versions of Windows. :D

I personally want MS to go back to a their old ways before the XBox. Not get rid of the XBox of course. I have my gripes and crazy rants about their lack of mouse support, but I know they're good for the gaming market. Prior to the Xbox and Vista, they really gave Windows gaming presidential treatment.

After this E3 though, I think PC games are making a good showing again. With games like DeadSpace and Mirrors Edge, I'm truly excited.

<]=)

[Dagless]

So what youre saying is you dont believe Nintendos own words...

Own words which, in the same original quote, said Nintendo would re-release GC games with enhanced Wii-ness :rolleyes:

[Antares]

Own words which, in the same original quote, said Nintendo would re-release GC games with enhanced Wii-ness :rolleyes:


Well, Nintendo also said that the DS is not a replacement to the Gameboy and it's merely a "third pillar." That's not how things have worked out, has it?..... :confused: I doubt Nintendo is going to re-release any GCN games, with "waggle" beyond Twilight Princess.

[Dagless]

Exactly. Nintendo said a few things which weren't true. You proved me more right :)

[e²Studios]

Exactly. Nintendo said a few things which weren't true. You proved me more right :)

If we are going to get delusional and read things totally the wrong way then.. SONY IS WINNING, weeeeee.... Yea, you sound like that :p

Nintendo said what they said, live with it, don't try to justify an obviously bad PR job. It happens... To every company.

[MacRumorUser]

... but after seeing the 360 screenshots, I can see why this is the case.

<]=)

That's not very acurate. You picked two lousy screen shots. Go back and actually 'play' the game on a HDTV and you will see for yourself the game is indeed graphically impressive still 2 years later.

You should not judge a book by it's cover, or try to bolster a struggling premise with misleading screen shots. ;)

[Dagless]

But I'm not saying anything like that! I'm saying Nintendo lied about 3 things.

Wii is a Gamecube (faster chips after all)
Wii to have enhanced GC games
DS being the Third pillar.

I'm not defending Nintendo in the slightest. I'm calling them out for BSing us, even when they make claims about their own hardware.

[Jovian9]

Microsoft bullies their way into gaming......
Sony lies their way to tons of hype for gaming.....
Nintendo can't compete graphically with MS/Sony........

I prefer an Xbox over a Playstation. But we need both systems to continue to be strong so they can compete with each other and drive costs down. Without the other these would cost a lot more. We need Nintendo to provide us with a gaming system that is about more than just graphics and media-extensions.

Hooray for all 3!!!! :eek:

[JackAxe]

That's not very acurate. You picked two lousy screen shots. Go back and actually 'play' the game on a HDTV and you will see for yourself the game is indeed graphically impressive still 2 years later.

You should not judge a book by it's cover, or try to bolster a struggling premise with misleading screen shots. ;)

I just go lucky and picked IGN first. Their entire gallery makes the game look like vomit; :D
http://insider.ign.com/dor/objects/748396/dead-rising/images/roundtable-171-dead-rising-20060817104957429.html

This gallery fairs the game better on a few shots;
http://reviews.cnet.com/xbox-360-games/dead-rising-xbox-360/4528-11457_7-31414818-3.html?tag=nav

See, the Cube shots look about the same, just tinier;
http://www.videogamer.com/wii/dead_rising/screenshots.html

Screen shots rarely do a game justice and when motion doesn't cover it up either, I rely on FUN or good story telling to cover up the flaws. I'm just overly critical as usual.

<]=)

[Dagless]

I'm just overly critical as usual.

<]=)
Which is good! One of the best reviewers of recent times has been Yahtzee since he's so brutally honest about games. I don't trust a single reviewer out there now, it's even possible to doubt the big Y since he likely says some points to get a few laughs.

The world needs more critical gaming critics. Maybe we'll see a drop in the 90%+ rated hyped games.

[Much Ado]

Which is good! One of the best reviewers of recent times has been Yahtzee since he's so brutally honest about games.

I disagree. He looks for cheap laughs and doesn't really say much about the games themselves.

Having said that, brutal honesty is important for reviews, which is why i always check out a game's score on Metacritic, and read the lowest scores first.

[stainlessliquid]

I just go lucky and picked IGN first. Their entire gallery makes the game look like vomit; :D
http://insider.ign.com/dor/objects/748396/dead-rising/images/roundtable-171-dead-rising-20060817104957429.html

This gallery fairs the game better on a few shots;
http://reviews.cnet.com/xbox-360-games/dead-rising-xbox-360/4528-11457_7-31414818-3.html?tag=nav

See, the Cube shots look about the same, just tinier;
http://www.videogamer.com/wii/dead_rising/screenshots.html

Screen shots rarely do a game justice and when motion doesn't cover it up either, I rely on FUN or good story telling to cover up the flaws. I'm just overly critical as usual.

<]=)

The wii version completely lacks lighting. Actually look at the difference from a technical standpoint, not an artistic one. The 360 version also isnt very impressive visually because it cant be, it has to render hundreds of dynamic characters on screen which is a different ball game than just a few enemies in a room.

wake me when a Wii game looks like this in SD http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/830/830258/mass-effect-20071025095931783_640w.jpg

[Antares]

But I'm not saying anything like that! I'm saying Nintendo lied about 3 things.

Wii is a Gamecube (faster chips after all)
Wii to have enhanced GC games
DS being the Third pillar.

I'm not defending Nintendo in the slightest. I'm calling them out for BSing us, even when they make claims about their own hardware.

I wouldn't use the term "lies." That's a bit extreme. The word "lies" assumes that Nintendo said one thing but knew the truth was absolutely something else and wanted to maliciously and actively deceive consumers and shareholders...which I seriously doubt was/is the case (Miyamoto doesn't seem the type who would go back to his secret lair and rub his hands together while laughing maniacally at his evil, deceptive plans...does he?).

I think Nintendo originally fully intended to rerelease Cube games with "Wii enhancements." I don't know about you...but I'm kind of glad they didn't. It would distract from producing new games.

In regards to the "3rd pillar," I think Nintendo never thought the DS would take off like it did and intended to have two handhelds on the market. The PSP is almost like what the Gameboy probably would have been. Had the DS only been marginally successful, I could see another Gameboy having been released by now.

And Nintendo never said that the Wii is a Gamecube. Just that it's "like a Gamecube." Kind of like you can say that a 2008 MacPro is like a 2006 Macbook. You can use many of the same development tools to develop for both but the MacPro is faster and has some new features.

As for lies, would you say that SquareEnix lied when they said that Final Fantasy XIII would be PS3 exclusive? Does a changing business environment, forcing a company to change it's plans, make that company a liar? Now, SquareEnix would have lied if they officially stated that FFXIII was PS3 exclusive but in actuality was developing it for the 360 (or intended to when they made that statement. People use the words "lies" and "liar" too liberally.

[JackAxe]

The wii version completely lacks lighting. Actually look at the difference from a technical standpoint, not an artistic one. The 360 version also isnt very impressive visually because it cant be, it has to render hundreds of dynamic characters on screen which is a different ball game than just a few enemies in a room.

wake me when a Wii game looks like this in SD http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/830/830258/mass-effect-20071025095931783_640w.jpg

That explains it, you've been sleeping.

Close enough (http://images.starpulse.com/Photos/Previews/MarioGalaxy-24.jpg). But you wouldn't know, because you've just gone into a coma.

Not bad for a x1600-step-brother, but still dated like the Wii's visuals. I'm waiting for this game to drop in price on the PC. I've read a mix of reviews, mostly negative from PC monkeys like me -- mainly that it's a console port -- but since it's a modern version of Starflight and Star Control 2(Played with a Gravis GamePad), I'm going to give it a go. Just like BioShock. :mad: :(

Dead Rising's art looks lazy and rushed. I notice the bosses have more care, but the rest of the game is mixed.

Lack... Naaa. If DR is like RE4, which it should be, since it's being built on the same Cube engine, it will have a cross between baked and dynamic lighting. Prime 3 didn't use any baked lighting, nor does Mario Galaxy. Even Zelda TP.

Even this cheese-ball (http://www.videogamer.com/wii/dead_rising/screenshot-2.html) has lighting.

The Wii can render mobs of enemies using that thing that ALL 3D engines have used since the early days, LOD. Of course with less polygons than the 360 to state the obvious, but it's not like the 360 is a technical beast. And we all know that a lower resolution, equates to a less power needed. The 360 was required to push 720p, where as the Wii's only requirement is EDTV.

<]=)

[JackAxe]

Which is good! One of the best reviewers of recent times has been Yahtzee since he's so brutally honest about games. I don't trust a single reviewer out there now, it's even possible to doubt the big Y since he likely says some points to get a few laughs.

The world needs more critical gaming critics. Maybe we'll see a drop in the 90%+ rated hyped games.

He's my favorite. :) I trust all of his reviews so far. As long as they don't clamp him and he can continued to be as vulgar as needed about ANY game, I'll continue to watch his videos.

<]=)

[stainlessliquid]

how can you possibly think Mario Galaxy looks close to Mass Effect? Thats just craziness.

[Dagless]

^ uh, nope.
They're both very visually impressive games. One uses a fantasy art direction, one uses a more realistic one. Both are comparable since they're both very well done, use techniques to hide polygon edges, have dynamic lighting and use of shaders. Galaxy is a modern day work of art direction.

"just"

Besides, the Cube had a bit of a 3D blit manipulator going on which I'm assuming the Wii version does (considering that Strikers has a fully 3D crowd). This means it can blit multiple instances of a 3D model without adding much to the CPU or GPU. Games like Dead Rising are perfect fodder for this.

It's all rather good really.

[stainlessliquid]

Art isnt the same as graphics, I was looking for a graphic comparison not something subjective like art. There are many games that look great because the art style was designed to look good with the system's abilities in mind, it doesnt mean they are graphical powerhouses (in which case Wind Waker would be considered a graphical powerhouse, which is absurd).

[Dagless]

Art isnt the same as graphics, I was looking for a graphic comparison not something subjective like art. There are many games that look great because the art style was designed to look good with the system's abilities in mind, it doesnt mean they are graphical powerhouses (in which case Wind Waker would be considered a graphical powerhouse, which is absurd).

Both are comparable since they're both very well done, use techniques to hide polygon edges, have dynamic lighting and use of shaders. Galaxy is a modern day work of art direction.

Throw in use of lens effects, soft lighting, soft particles, specular and normal maps. Just Galaxy doesn't have AA and is in SD resolution, a trick which doesn't require as many polygons on screen and fake rim light shader adds an extra glossy layer.

For extra readage. (http://revoeyes.blogspot.com/2007/07/wii-has-more-power-than-you-think.html)

[stainlessliquid]

The screenshot I showed was already in SD, and its still in a different league than Galaxy, the shadows in Galaxy arent anywhere near as sophisticated as the shadows in Mass Effect (which has self shadowing, something the Wii could never dream of doing without skimping on everything else). What the Wii's gpu is capable of is different than what they can do in a game. My crappy 7600gt can do this http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/8958/crysis1pd0.jpg but it can only do it at 5fps.

The Wii can do motion blur and all kinds of other effects, but it cant do them all at the same time if it wants to maintain playable framerates. The 360 does not have to make those sacrifices, it can handle many more effects while still mainting high framerates at 720p.

[Dagless]

Thing is the Wii runs these games at 60fps, where most of the big Xbox games in higher resolutions only manage 30. I'm guessing that by removing "self shadowing" (something the Wii, Cube and even N64 can do) and AA they could push into 60fps territory.

And it does manage to keep up framerates. Many of the visor effects in Prime 3 utilise motion blur, radial blur effects, normal mapping and still manages to run at 60fps. I'm not sure where you're getting this info from. Clearly the Wii's graphical capability is akin to the Cell processor - there are a couple of titles utilising the technology that hasn't been adopted by most developers yet.

Oh - and the 360 does sacrifice resolution and FSAA in many titles. Try getting Halo 3 or GTA IV to run natively (without the aid of a scaler) in 720p.

[MacRumorUser]

Thing is the Wii runs these games at 60fps,

Not all wii games run at 60fps, just as not all ps3 and 360 games run at 30fps.

Your all basing arguments on flawed positions.

And using 'prime 3' as a bolster to your statement is a weak choice. The game has generally poor muddy looking textures throughout.

When we finally get a Wii HD (wii 2) you will be able to compare like for like, until that day your all just churning out FUD and hyperbole.

Besides what happened to all of you guys? JackAxe, Jimmi.. you all once declared that graphics are not important and that gameplay is what matters the most.. and here you are now trying to somehow jizz up the power of the wii graphically :rolleyes: time has made graphic whores out of all of you.... ;)

[CalmEnvy]

S-E said the game is still in early development.... yeah makes no sense I know. So don't expect this game for a long time + the PS3 version for NA/EU get delayed and stay in factories until the 360 version is done.... thanks S-E.

Good - XBOX 360 gets the port, Sony has it exclusive in Japan.

Bad - Early development still, 360 gets started after PS3 is done meaning PS3 version delayed (shouldn't be long), Microsoft payed S-E.

[Dagless]

Microsoft paid Square Enix? Why do some people honestly think this? There are almost double the number of 360's to PS3's out there, if anything Sony might have paid Square Enix to keep exclusivity in Japan. Since games are taking longer and costing more to produce it's not surprising at all that more games are going multiplatform.

[2nyRiggz]

Theres a 4.6(around that) million difference between the 360 and the PS3....currently at 14.4-15 to 19-20 million...Thats not half. SE wants that combine money and you honestly can't blame them...I would too if I was a share holder.

Its the best move SE could of made seeing as production cost are sky high and Sony didn't seem to put in on it so it went multi.

But never fear PS3 RPG/MMO fans.....NCsoft has 3 games for you and one of them might be this bad boy.

http://games.plaync.co.kr/


Bless

[apsterling]

Okay, so all Wii first party games run 60FPS, but that's better than Sony and Microsoft. And gameplay mechanics on Wii are still better than those of either competitor.

[stainlessliquid]

And it does manage to keep up framerates. Many of the visor effects in Prime 3 utilise motion blur, radial blur effects, normal mapping and still manages to run at 60fps.
And it looks like complete ass while doing those things. They would have been better off focussing on a few effects and making those look good rather than doing too many effects and making them all look extremely bad. Plus the NPC's dont even cast shadows.

And ya the Wii can do self shadowing, any GPU that can render cast shadows should be able to do it. My 7600GT can do it. The downside is that there will never be a playable game with self shadowing on the Wii since that would pretty much require a single character with a single light source in an empty room to get more than 2fps, or maybe they could just remove all textures to achieve self shadows.

[carlosbutler]

Microsoft paid Square Enix? Why do some people honestly think this? There are almost double the number of 360's to PS3's out there, if anything Sony might have paid Square Enix to keep exclusivity in Japan. Since games are taking longer and costing more to produce it's not surprising at all that more games are going multiplatform.

half way through i got bored reading this thread but you are either a xbox fanboy or a console hater (i guess).

the ps3 and xbox each have their own upsides, although at the moment the PS3 has many more - the only thing that people ever go on about on the 360 is games this and that and oooo gears of war. big deal. same for PS3 with oooo bluray and oooo resistance this and that. but the thing is that the PS3 is a much better entertainment system overall. it can be used as a very good home media system. and you arent stuck to only MS products. have a samsung headset with a hp wireless mouse and keyboard and logitech steering wheel. same applies to number of controllers connectable (7) but mainly the life span of the console.

when people try to defend one thing, normally the one that they own - as ive just done - they will focus on the one point that is best about the machine. for example, someone who knows about computers, and has a quad core PC with dual sli and 1gb, and someone who doesnt, with a laptop with awful graphics and slow CPU but 4gb of ram, will aruge because the one with the crap laptop will keep on saying the 4gb is a lot better than 1gb

some people that aruge over which console is best have probably never experienced any other console. personally i believe that the 360 is rubbish - although i will not force others to agree with me (although it is pretty restricted, i mean you cant even use your own hard drive, it has to be a MS one - whereas with my ps3 ive got a 300gb hard drive in it, cost me £50 or about $100)

tbh i have no idea where im going with this:p

[Dagless]

And it looks like complete ass while doing those things. They would have been better off focussing on a few effects and making those look good rather than doing too many effects and making them all look extremely bad. Plus the NPC's dont even cast shadows.

And ya the Wii can do self shadowing, any GPU that can render cast shadows should be able to do it. My 7600GT can do it. The downside is that there will never be a playable game with self shadowing on the Wii since that would pretty much require a single character with a single light source in an empty room to get more than 2fps, or maybe they could just remove all textures to achieve self shadows.

I'm pretty much certain Strikers has dynamic shadows and there's certainly more than 1 character and textures...
The problem with such a system is that by unifying lighting and shadowing you can potentially end up with Doom 3-like lighting and is best used for games where lighting is important for atmosphere purposes.

I guess you didn't read that link I sent you and you don't seem to like being proved wrong so I'll give up :) the Wii isn't as powerful as either the PS3 or 360 but you can't seem to grasp the Wii can emulate effects (360/Ps3 has to do this to achieve DirectX 10 effects) without much processor loss (as seen with S3 texture games that were even possible on the Wii and the various shaders the Wii can run). But the other 2 aren't powerhouses either compared to what a cheap PC was producing last year.
You can go on not liking the Wii and dismissing facts as "whatever it looks like ass" if you like.

half way through i got bored reading this thread but you are either a xbox fanboy...

This is funny :D

[stainlessliquid]

uhm self shadowing is where the character casts a shadow on itself, not just casts a shadow on the ground. Mass Effect has a lot of it, MGS4 has a lot of it. Like this http://files.playstatic.com/ps3/metal-gear-solid-4/metal-gear-1.jpg

Most games only use cast shadows on static objects like the floor and wall, casting shadows on a dynamic object is entirely different. The most self shadowing you will ever see on Wii will probably be vehicles casting shadows on themselves since they are mostly static and flat. Play Mass Effect on PC and watch how hard your framerate takes a hit when you enable them.

The article you linked to only talks about the features of the Wii GPU. Which I have said repeatedly dont mean anything. The geforce 5200fx which is probably one of the worst gaming cards ever made is capable of all the same effects that the 5900ultra can do, it does not mean that it can run all those same things simultaneously and maintain a playable framerate.

[JackAxe]

Even the PS2 supported self-shadowing and you're trying to tell us a fairly modern console with components from the same era as a 360, can't handle it more than on a simple level? Errr, Rogue Squardon 2 did the vehicle self-shadowing back in 2001. Big WHOOP! That was 7 years ago. Something tells me the Wii can do way more than 2 fps in the scenario you setup. That something is called reality, but you were probably being sarcastic. ;)

At least focus on an effect that's somewhat current, like sub-surface scattering. Or become a REAL graphic WHORE and build a BEASTLY SLI setup to brag about. Consoles just don't cut it.

Why do you fear the Wii?

If they had started out on the PC for Mass Effect, not only would the game look better, it would run better on lower end systems. All the reviews I've read state it does look better on the PC and that they fixed many limitations that were inherent with the console version.

On the blurb of fixing, I'm glad they did something about the really F*D up menu system I've been reading about. Other console to PC games usually stick with their PlaySkool control scheme. :(

5200fx, the worst? You haven't been around that long have you... :D

You're overly exaggerating the 5200's performance and just like your stance on the Wii, you're not willing to give it any credit. For its time and its budget price, it wasn't a bad performer. It ran Dawn just fine. :)

I'm going to throw out a cheese-ball analogy -- nothing new. Anyways, it's related to all of these rambles.

Let's say the PS3/360 is a 32oz glass cup and the Wii is a 8oz glass cup. OK both cups can hold the same liquids. Of course the bigger cup can hold more, so it's obviously better. Now let's say EDTV is a small child and HDTV is a fat thirsty bastard.. Do you see where I'm going with this? Sure, the child on occasion might want more, but not 32oz more and the Wii's pretty good at filling up its cup as soon as it's empty.

Blah.

<]=)

[Dagless]

I had a little play on Strikers and it does seem to have self shadowing models, as I said before they have 10 players and a fully 3D audience. Do I know what it is ;) the cheek. I make games for a living ;)

[stainlessliquid]

Why do you fear the Wii?
uh right. Why do you fear the 360? Arent you the one who started out with fanboy comments like its "360-letist snobbery" because dead rising looks like crap on the Wii, and then making ridiclous statements like the Wii games could look like 360 games if theyre in SD? The only "proof" you have been able to provide that the Wii is capable of 360-like graphics in SD is Mario Galaxy, which isnt even close. I dont care about the 360 or the Wii, but Im defending the 360 so clearly Im afraid of the Wii?
You're overly exaggerating the 5200's performance and just like your stance on the Wii, you're not willing to give it any credit. For its time and its budget price, it wasn't a bad performer. It ran Dawn just fine.
I cant tell if youre being serious. The 5200 was the biggest laughing stock in the history of video cards (well, maybe the voodoo 5 was bigger). It was barely more useful for gaming than integrated graphics. The FX series as a whole was terrible compared to ATI's fantastic 9000 series (which costed less too), the 5200 was just adding insult to injury. Make a thread on a PC forum asking what the worst video card ever was and I would bet money that most people will say the 5200fx with some other crappy FX cards thrown in. But if you thought that piece of garbage was a good card then its not surprising you think the Wii is good at graphics.
Let's say the PS3/360 is a 32oz glass cup and the Wii is a 8oz glass cup. OK both cups can hold the same liquids. Of course the bigger cup can hold more, so it's obviously better. Now let's say EDTV is a small child and HDTV is a fat thirsty bastard.. Do you see where I'm going with this? Sure, the child on occasion might want more, but not 32oz more and the Wii's pretty good at filling up its cup as soon as it's empty.
I cant figure out how that is relevant
I had a little play on Strikers and it does seem to have self shadowing models, as I said before they have 10 players and a fully 3D audience. Do I know what it is the cheek. I make games for a living
Where? http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2007/210/reviews/935184_20070730_screen014.jpg

[JackAxe]

uh right. Why do you fear the 360? Arent you the one who started out with fanboy comments like its "360-letist snobbery" because dead rising looks like crap on the Wii, and then making ridiclous statements like the Wii games could look like 360 games if theyre in SD? The only "proof" you have been able to provide that the Wii is capable of 360-like graphics in SD is Mario Galaxy, which isnt even close. I dont care about the 360 or the Wii, but Im defending the 360 so clearly Im afraid of the Wii?




HURRAY! Once again, you've taken what I stated out of context and WARPED it to your own selfish post.

You're a 360 poser! :eek:

Ahh, Mario Galaxy. It's visually one of the best looking games on any system right now. That's not just my opinion. Mabye it's technically not a Mass Effect, but it's still a visual feast of fun.

HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF SARCASM?

Let's look at what I wrote;
You people and your 360-letist snobbery. ;) NOTICE SOMETHING?

HERE's what I stated about the Wii producing 360 visuals;

A true Wii port would be fairly close to the 360 DR at SD.

THIS IS REFERRING TO DEAD RISING BTW!!! You pulled this out of context and generalized it. THANKS!!

I then went on to to say this;
When it comes down to it, the 360 visually is not a huge leap over the Wii.

Unless you're BLINDED by the EYE-CANDY, or HD, you'll know what I'm referring to here. And notice that I'm clearly stating the 360 is better, which I have many times over. But yet you've gone back to my first statement and misconstrued it.

I'll stand by my comment, because Dead Rising is NOT the 360's best showpiece, it's an early title.

Did I say dead rising looks like crap on the Wii? NO! Here's what I said when using crap;

I see the same CRAP all around, regardless of it being the latest PC game on my 30", or a Wii game.

My comments about DR Wii were regarding it using the CUBE engine and not being a true Wii game.

STOP MISCONSTRUING MY POSTS! :eek:



Let's LOOK AT YOUR post;

The wii is literally an overclocked gamecube, it has the same hardware but a slightly higher clock rate.
Literally? :D Same hardware? I don't even need to misconstrue it to see that it's silly. :)


And if you're a PC gamer, you should take notice of MS's attention to the 360, because it has lead to a noticeable drop in gaming quality. So if I fear anything, it's the dumbing down of the types of games I've liked in general. At least the PS3 supports a mouse, but then again, it's optional.


I cant tell if youre being serious. The 5200 was the biggest laughing stock in the history of video cards (well, maybe the voodoo 5 was bigger). It was barely more useful for gaming than integrated graphics. The FX series as a whole was terrible compared to ATI's fantastic 9000 series (which costed less too), the 5200 was just adding insult to injury. Make a thread on a PC forum asking what the worst video card ever was and I would bet money that most people will say the 5200fx with some other crappy FX cards thrown in. But if you thought that piece of garbage was a good card then its not surprising you think the Wii is good at graphics.


Hey, it was a budget card. It could handle Doom 3 at 30fps at 800 x 600, which someone buying this card was probably running as their default rez. Think of the time period it was released. I made fun of my friends that bought one, but it was a HUGE upgrade over some of the 7000s and GF2 MXs it replaced -- which made the 5200fx look like the crown jewel of gaming.

I had a 9500pro at the time(Ran it like a 9700pro), but I wouldn't touch a 9500, or 9600.

Voodoo 5. You're new to gaming? :)

I'm being realistic about the Wii's visuals, you're not. Hey, were you one of those PS2 fanboys that calmed it was better than any PC when it came to gaming visuals. :)



I cant figure out how that is relevant


I figured it would be a bit above your cognitive skills. :p


Where?


This was a comment about the Cube from julian, that guy that actually knows hardware:
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/specialArt.cfm?artid=1906

Planet GameCube: How flexible and useful is Gekko in assisting Flipper with custom lighting and geometry? Are you using this feature? Does it compare to the vertex and pixel shaders on the Xbox's graphics chip?

Julian Eggebrecht: Maybe without going into too much detail, we don’t think there is anything visually you could do on X-Box (or PS2) which can’t be done on GameCube. I have read theories on the net about Flipper not being able to do cube-mapped environment maps, fur shading, self-shadowing etc... That’s all plain wrong. Rogue does extensive self-shadowing and both cube-maps and fur shading are not anymore complicated to implement on GameCube than on X-Box. You might be doing it differently, but the results are the same. When I said that X-Box and GameCube are on par power-wise I really meant it.


Hmmmmm, he's talking about a Cube, that thing the Wii replaced. Hmmmmmmmm, maybe Nintendo took a huge step back with the Wii, just so peeps like you could feel superior about your choice of console. ;)

<]=)

[CalmEnvy]

Well, S-E just announced a **** load of games for Sony at there DKΣ3713 party... mostly PSP but a FFXIII PS3 demo will be on the Blu-ray of Advent Children Complete and FFvXIII is PS3 exclusive.

Also, a huge Final Fantasy VII announcement has yet to be made. This is according to website and I believe Nomura stated that in an interview. Could just be a rumor but I'll wait till the end of DKΣ3713.

[stainlessliquid]

STOP MISCONSTRUING MY POSTS!
If you want me to stop misconstruing your posts then for the love of god start making more sense. Calm down. Take a breath. Dont ramble. Im guessing english isnt your native language because your posts are usually difficult to comprehend, especially your latest one... jeez :confused:

like this:
Unless you're BLINDED by the EYE-CANDY, or HD, you'll know what I'm referring to here.
huh? no I absolutely dont know what youre referring to. What are graphics if they arent eye candy? What the hell are you talking about??? I dont know how to respond to that or most of your weird points.

And "360 Poser"? huh?

[JackAxe]

I do say some weird things, but I'm also pretty clear with many of my points.

If you want jeez, I don't grab parts of your posts, then string them together to into something that's skewed just enough that it changes the entire meaning. Like my crap comment, that was not me writing something that was hard to comprehend, that was you not recalling in what context I had used it.

Yes, I ramble, so I can understand if you get lost in some of my long posts, but my earlier posts weren't as long winded and it's them that you're not remembering correctly.

Unless you're BLINDED by the EYE-CANDY, or HD, you'll know what I'm referring to here.

Here, I'll translate that from weird into english. :o

When I refer to eye-candy, I'm referring to any Hollywood type effect that distract from imperfections in the visuals. Like the overly used bloom effect.

I'm not referring to graphics as a whole, because even the latest games still share the same limitations as previous generations. I still see lots of facets and heavy use of sprites to create vegetation/foliage.


When I mention HD, I'm referring to the hordes of younger guys that have only gamed on TV consoles, so this whole HD-Digital thing is something new.


I should have written it like this;
"Unless you're still amazed by higher resolution graphics and lots of Hollywood-type-effects, you should be able to see that visually games still look fundamentally the same.


English is my first language, but I'm an artist, so that's my excuse. My wife knows english up and down and she doesn't always understand me, but when I speak with other artists or tech-geeks whom are just as nerdy as I, they never have problem comprehending my gibberish. I guess I'm used to communicating with other nerds that have been gaming since the seventies.

<]=)

[2nyRiggz]

You guys are still running on with this graphic thing....okay then well continue don't let me stop yall.

Did SE announce Parasite Eve: Third Birthday, KH: Birth by Sleep and some other FF games I care nothing for. Well thats like final fantasy for years to come for PSP/3 owners so enjoy it and shut up:D

I am interested in Birth by sleep though so I hope they mention something about it.



Bless