PDA

View Full Version : Wake On Lan?




Jowl
Jul 15, 2008, 02:20 AM
A Native Wake On Lan app would be just great for me. Turn my PC on so it's ready for when I get upstairs.

more importantly, turn on my fileserver machine readay to view my stored DVD's via the Mac Mini.

Any developers out there planning this? Is it possible? (As long as the SDK lets you send a majic packet via the network interface, I see no reason why not)



TonyHoyle
Jul 15, 2008, 03:54 AM
I don't believe you can send WOL via Wifi, since it has to be sent within the same network segment.

You could have an app running on a running machine (or even the router) that relayed the request.. but that's more complex to implement as it's two different bits of code.

BobF4321
Jul 15, 2008, 04:43 AM
I don't believe you can send WOL via Wifi, since it has to be sent within the same network segment.


Most cable/dsl wireless routers assign IP addresses in the same subnet to both wireless and wired clients, so my guess is that it should be possible as long as there is only one router involved.

Jowl
Jul 15, 2008, 07:27 AM
I have definatley sent a successful WOL command over wireless from my Macbook to wired PC/Mac computers.

There was iWol for jailbroken phoens I believe. I'm hoping that the iPhone SDK allows WOL sending and some clever developer could create a program.

I would love to get back into programming and create it myself.

ViViDboarder
Jul 15, 2008, 01:17 PM
This would be really nice with the VPN working :D Combine a wake program with VPN and VNC or SSH and you'll have some nice server management tools in the palm of your hand. :D

Alternatively, if you just want it on when you walk in your house, you can try a computer near your entry way that's always on listening to bluetooth for your phone. When sensed it'd auto send a WOL signal to your desktop to boot it. Fully automated. :D

Jowl
Aug 4, 2008, 07:40 AM
Finally! Not downloaded it yet but...

http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=286546049&mt=8

Website: http://www.perculasoft.com/sleepover/

supercooled
Aug 4, 2008, 08:03 AM
I apologize for meandering a little but can someone point me to the resource of setting up WoN?

I have a Mac Mini as a media server but I don't access the files all that often and would like to leave it off until I need it; rather than having it on all the time or even standby, I would like it to set on Wake-on-Lan which if my understanding is correct can have a machine in total shutdown mode and still be awoken via that magic packet call.

Is this more or less correct?

Jowl
Aug 4, 2008, 08:45 AM
That works in the windows (and I assume Linux?) world but it seems that Apple hardware will not do that! Believe me, I've tried and googled everything I can.

The plus side is that Mac hardware tends to use very little power in sleep mode - at least the Mac Mini does.

And I have now downloaded SleepOver now and can confirm it works fine over the LAN - not tried over the internet yet.

gambcl
Aug 4, 2008, 09:49 AM
Hi Jowl,

I am the author of SleepOver, thanks for the interest.

If you have any problems getting the wake-over-Internet working I have now added some
troubleshooting tips to the website. Please get in touch if you have any problems.

If you do get it working it would be great if you could fill in the Report Router
form (linked to on the support page). I am trying to build up a list of routers
which *will* allow wake-over-Internet to work, as there are so many which do not allow it.

The idea is to have a central place where people can look to see if their router (or one they
are about to buy) has been used successfully.

I use a D-Link but it only works for a short while before the ARP cache times out and it doesn't
seem to have any way to specify a permanent static ARP mapping. So I've just bought a Linksys
model which is compatible with DD-WRT, which I hope to test this week sometime.

Anyway, hope it works out for you,

gambcl

Jowl
Aug 4, 2008, 10:57 AM
Hi,

First of all, thanks for a great App!

I will leave feedback over on your site asap. As of yet, I cannot get the WOL over internet to work. I did manage it once through a website but cannot repeat it via the web or your app. I did read something about ARP and the ARP table for my router - I will try that!

However, LAN works wonderfully well. If only Apple would allow booting from 'off' *sigh*

My only gripe so far is the way that you enter the Mac address and the IP address - it would be *much* quicker using just a keypad rather than the current method.

Thanks

J

gambcl
Aug 4, 2008, 12:00 PM
Hi Jowl,

Glad you're enjoying it.

If you manage to wake your target machine once over Internet but then it stops
waking, try rebooting your target and see if it starts waking again. If it does
it will probably only work for a short time and you have the same problem I do
with my router. The ARP cache entry for your target host times out and then the
router tries to do an ARP request to your target next time a magic packet arrives
and of course it doesn't receive a response because it's asleep so it doesn't
deliver the magic packet.

I'm afraid there is nothing SleepOver or any other wake application or website
can do in this situation. If you're lucky you might be able to telnet into
your router and use the arp command to setup a static entry.

Try "telnet <router-ip>" if it asks for user/pass, use whatever you use on the web
interface. Then try "arp help" and see if the arp command supports the "-s" option,
I have seen some routers support this for adding static entries.

Point taken about the data entry method, I might have got carried away with the cool
slider things ;-)

I will seriously think about changing it to numeric keypad for the 1.1 release,
but my thoughts were that once you have entered the data once, hopefully you don't
have to mess with it too much.

gambcl

Jowl
Aug 4, 2008, 01:23 PM
I have got Wake over the Internet to work.....but I seem to have the same 'arp' issue. With my current router (Thomson) that was supplied by my ISP, I cannot telnet in and change the table. I will try and get my old netgear out and see if I have any luck with that. Forwarding UDP ports to the broadcast address didn't seem to work either.

I take your point about once the data is entered it's not often you'll change it. Perhaps it would be easier if you could also slide 'backwards' (ie go from 0 back to 255, 255 down to etc) I do think that a normal keypad would be easier though.

Jowl
Aug 4, 2008, 04:37 PM
Well, it seems I have succesfully got Wake over Internet working!

I had to telnet into my router and manually add an ARP address (which in fact made it 'static' rather than 'dynamic'.) I also set the computer I wanted to to wake up to a Static IP address. I will play around with the broadcast address and there seems to be an option to 'always allocate same address' in the DHCP server.

Edit: I've sent a 'router report' with the steps I made on your website.

gambcl
Aug 4, 2008, 04:56 PM
Great work.

To check that it really is a static mapping, you could try leaving your machine asleep for a few hours and then try to wake it over internet and see if it still works.

Thanks for the router report, first one so far!!!

I will make the router list page later this week when I have tested my new Linksys with the latest DD-WRT firmware on it.

Glad you got it all working.

gambcl

Jowl
Aug 4, 2008, 05:09 PM
So far I've left it for around 45 minutes.

The first time I did this - with 'Dynamic' arp it failed to Wake over Internet when I tried again.

The second time i tried - after creating a static arp entry, it worked.

Will try again in the morning now!

Thanks again for a cool app. I look forward to DynamicDNS in the next update. Would it also be possible to move computers into Groups?

eg 'Work' Would contain the 3 computers in my office
'home' would be my home computers.

possibly even 'wake group' (over LAN)

just a feature suggestion for a future version.

Edit: By the way, the machine I was waking over LAN and internet was a self-built windows PC. I will try the Mac later.

gambcl
Aug 4, 2008, 05:51 PM
Looks like you're on a winner with that router!

The Mac should wake just fine too, you should just need another static mapping, and you might need to use a different incoming port number so that you can setup another port-forwarding rule I guess.

I will make a note of the groups feature for a future release, but it probably wont make it into 1.1.

Great to hear you got it all working. If you can spare a minute, a review in the AppStore from someone who actually knows what wake-on-LAN is would be very much appreciated :-)

Thanks,

gambcl

Jowl
Aug 5, 2008, 05:19 AM
So, woke up this morning (just, it was 11am :D ), reached over to my iPhone and woke my main PC over the internet. By the time I'd poured a cup of coffee, the PC was waiting for me. Success :D

Today I will try:

Adding another computer (Mac) on a different port number
Adding a static route to the broadcast address

Oh, and I subnmitted a App store review last night - should hopefully bump the average rating up a bit!

Rigby
Aug 5, 2008, 01:42 PM
Warning! This app will make you fat and lazy! :p In combination with Remote I can now switch on my server and stream music all around the house via Airport Express without running upstairs to the computer all the time. :)

But seriously, very useful app. Just does what it's supposed to do. My only small criticism is the method for entering the MAC and IP addresses. Takes a lot of spinning. A keypad would probably be easier.

gambcl
Aug 5, 2008, 05:23 PM
Hi Rigby,

You'll be glad to know that I'll be changing the sliders to keypads in the next release.

Thanks for your interest in SleepOver.

gambcl

Warped1
Aug 5, 2008, 06:26 PM
I just purchased this after seeing it here. I clicked too soon :) The app does not support name resolution. I wanted this to specifically wake up my server over the internet (which I do from a web site now for free). My IP address will change over time and is updated with no-ip.org.

The same can be said for internal network entries. I use DHCP at home on some machines so this thing is useless. Hopefully the dev updates this.

Warped1
Aug 5, 2008, 06:44 PM
Okay, there is a small blurb in the app description that states DynamicDNS support coming soon. Thats a fancy way of saying hostnames will be supported. Something so basic should have been included from the start.

I read the 'works over the internet' bullet and bought it too soon. Hopefully an update is close.

gambcl
Aug 6, 2008, 02:10 AM
Hi Warped1,

Thanks for your feedback.

As you have seen, hostname support is coming soon.
It will only be used for waking over internet though. As for your internal DHCP hosts, you should be setting up your DHCP server to allocate fixed IP addresses for them if you want to wake them.

gambcl

Rigby
Aug 6, 2008, 03:56 AM
As you have seen, hostname support is coming soon.
It will only be used for waking over internet though. As for your internal DHCP hosts, you should be setting up your DHCP server to allocate fixed IP addresses for them if you want to wake them.Hm, while I agree that this is a likely scenario for most small and home networks, I could easily imagine cases where using host names could be useful on the LAN as well (e.g. in a larger lab where you cannot easily reconfigure everything just for WOL). Also, why would you want to restrict DNS lookup to one mode only? Wouldn't it even be easier to treat both modes the same? In the end, it shouldn't involve more than allowing hostnames to be entered in addition to IP addresses and adding a gethostbyname() (or whatever it's equivalent is in the iPhone OS), or?

gambcl
Aug 6, 2008, 04:44 AM
Hi Rigby,

OK, point taken. I will allow hostname support for LAN as well.

I am planning to add a text field for the hostname, and then when it comes time
to send the magic packet, if a hostname has been specified it will do a lookup
and use that, otherwise if no hostname is given it will use the specified IP
address as it does now.

I am also planning to hide the port number for LAN wakes as it is not required,
and hide the subnet mask for internet wakes, because hostname/IP should be enough.

Hopefully this (along with replacing the sliders with keypads) will streamline the
user interface and make it easier to use.

gambcl

Warped1
Aug 6, 2008, 06:21 AM
It's great to hear top notch support comes with my purchase and you are going to make needed changes. I will update my app store review to reflect the changes once implemented. Thanks!

Jowl
Aug 6, 2008, 06:28 AM
That all sounds great. It's nice to know I wasn't the only one with the thoughts on the sliders. And the developer is active and responding to suggestions.

Only thing is, the 2.01 iPhone update broke my wi-fi :(

talazem
Aug 6, 2008, 07:32 AM
Hi all,

Has anyone gotten this to work over the internet with an Airport Extreme n? It's working wonderfully over LAN, waking up my MacMini that's on the LAN through the Airport, but I can't get it to work over the internet.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

gambcl
Aug 6, 2008, 10:52 AM
It seems as though the AEBS will not forward packets from the internet to the LAN broadcast address (x.x.x.255)
and will also not allow you to setup a static ARP mapping. I have read that if you setup a port-forwarding rule
to forward your chosen UDP port number to your target host's IP address that it will work for a short while,
but soon the ARP entry for your host in the router's ARP cache expires and it will not work after that.
Some people say that it works for longer if you setup your host with a static DHCP address in the AEBS.

I found some threads involving AEBS and wake-over-Internet:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=537194
http://forums.dealmac.com/read.php?4,2751524,older
http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20050118192723153

Unfortunately the AEBS doesn't support wake-over-Internet very well, it is the same story with a lot of routers.
This is why I am trying to compile a list of routers that people have had success with. For anyone else reading
this thread, there is a form on my website where you can report a router that you have got working with
wake-over-internet: www.perculasoft.com/sleepover/report_router.php

When I get a list going I will put them up on my site for reference.

Sorry I don't have better news for you talazem, it is not a limitation of SleepOver, the app *is* sending the
magic packet but the AEBS just won't forward it to your machine in any reliable way.

gambcl

Rigby
Aug 6, 2008, 11:23 AM
I am planning to add a text field for the hostname, and then when it comes time
to send the magic packet, if a hostname has been specified it will do a lookup
and use that, otherwise if no hostname is given it will use the specified IP
address as it does now.

I am also planning to hide the port number for LAN wakes as it is not required,
and hide the subnet mask for internet wakes, because hostname/IP should be enough.Sounds good. Just be sure to leave the port number configurable for "Internet", as I do not want to open port 9 on my router for certain reasons.

Another thing that could possibly be useful is "single-tap waking", i.e. somehow allowing to trigger the wake directly from the list of hosts on the start page, saving one tap. :) I'm not sure if there is a nice, clean way to do it using Cocoa widgets though; perhaps by having one or two buttons directly underneath the hostname?

Rigby
Aug 6, 2008, 11:41 AM
Just a quick report how I got WOL across the Internet to work with my WRT54GL router running the latest Tomato firmware (http://www.polarcloud.com/tomato):

1) Pick an unused IP address for your LAN (I used 192.168.1.250)
2) Set up a port forward form a port of your choice to this address
3) Add a static ARP entry that maps this address to a broadcast address by adding the following line e.g. under Administration/Scripts/Firewall:

ip neighbor add 192.168.1.250 lladdr ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff dev br0 nud permanent

Works like a charm for me. :D

gambcl
Aug 6, 2008, 11:43 AM
Hi Rigby,

Don't worry the port number will still be configurable for Internet waking.

At the moment I am quite liking the "clean" appearance of the main screen,
plus having a two-tap-wake will give you some exercise, we don't want you getting
too "fat and lazy" do we? But seriously, if I find a nice way of doing it I will
think about it for a future release.

gambcl

Jowl
Aug 6, 2008, 12:06 PM
I must admit that I like the 2 tap method.

What I need now is a way to control everything in my home from the iPhone - Wake Girlfriend on LAN? Make Bacon-butties-on-Lan ? :D

gambcl
Aug 23, 2008, 06:04 AM
Hi folks,

The new version of SleepOver just hit the AppStore, so hopefully this will make it quicker to enter host details and also adds support for hostnames.

I have also added the page about reported routers (only 4 so far) to the website.

Love to hear any feedback,

gambcl

Rigby
Aug 23, 2008, 09:34 AM
Just updated. The DNS lookup and new entry methods are welcome improvements and work just fine. However, some details could still use streamlining:

- It should be possible to edit hosts after the fact (not just delete them). E.g. I mistyped one digit of the MAC address and had to reenter the whole thing instead of just fixing the MAC. Or is this already possible and I missed it?
- The MAC input is much easier now. However, it would be good if I didn't have to delete all the "00" when entering a new MAC (i.e. when selecting a number field, it should blank the entry automatically so I can start typing the number directly). Also, it would be great to have a hex keypad if that is possible.
- Similarly, it would be nice to have the same keyboard that Safari uses when entring host names (so you get the "." and toplevel domains without having to switch).
- Right now you can "save" a new host without even entering a MAC address. Of course it does not work then, which might be confusing for less experienced users. Perhaps it would be good to pop up a warning if the user tries to save a host without having made all necessary inputs.

Also, feel free to add my router report on the WRT54GL a few posts up to your web page if you like.

gambcl
Aug 23, 2008, 12:15 PM
Hi Rigby,

Thanks for the great feedback, I find it very useful.

You have always been able to edit the host details. On the main screen, tap the blue arrow which takes you to the host information screen. Then tap the Edit button (top-right), then you can just tap whatever field you want to edit.
When you have finished editing tap the Done button. This follows the same UI principles as Apple's apps.

About clearing the MAC fields, I will try this out and if I like it then it will go in the next update.

I did originally want to do a custom hex keyboard, but it turns out that it is not possible to do custom keyboards in the current SDK. I could just knock up some buttons that look like an original keyboard but the problem is integrating them properly with the text fields. I am watching to see what Apple does in this area because a lot of developers are asking for the same thing.

I really meant to use the Safari keyboard for editing hostnames and must have simply forgotten. I've fixed it for the next release.

I will add your router to the site as well, thanks.

BTW, did the update keep your data intact? Some people seem to get their data wiped when updating applications or syncing with iTunes.

Thanks,

gambcl

PS: Anyone out there with a network card that supports the SecureOn passwords for wake-on-LAN? I would like to add this in a future update but I have never actually seen a machine that uses it or ever had a request for it, but it would complete the wake-on-lan feature set.

CommanderData
Aug 23, 2008, 12:41 PM
Gambcl,
I updated and it kept my data intact, but the data was not usable. You could go in and look at it, see everything was configured as it was with the previous update, but when I tried to send a packet I got an alert-box telling me to define at least one network (or something to that effect). I had to recreate my entries from scratch and delete the old ones for it to work again.

As for the suggestions- I absolutely agree with them. When typing an IP address or MAC address the first box should automatically have focus, and then as you type it will clear the previous contents. It should also move to the next box automatically- when I type 192 I should be able to hit "." or return and have focus move to the next box so I can keep typing the next segment. ":" or return key would have the same effect in the MAC entry.

For MAC addresses, each box you enter defaults to the alphabet keyboard. It should default to the numeric keyboard to streamline the entry process, as you will likely enter more 0-9 than A-F characters (at least I did). Obviously a custom "keyboard" would make this really nice, but once you set it up you don't really need to go back and mess with the MAC address again (unless you change yours regularly out of paranoia- I change the MAC of my laptop's network adaptors maybe once or twice a year).

gambcl
Aug 23, 2008, 12:57 PM
Hi CommanderData,

Sorry you had to re-enter your data, I'll look into that.

I am preparing a new update this weekend which should include a lot of the input suggestions, such as focus, clearing fields, using URL keyboard for hostnames, etc.

The MAC address is a tricky one. The SDK right now does not allow for custom keyboards, which is what I really want. So I am left with either a text keyboard or sliders. I will look into bringing up the keyboard in the number view by default but last time I looked there was no way to do even that. I am watching this area of the SDK closely though, so as soon as someone discovers how to do it, or Apple publish an API to allow it, I will be right there!

As I said, I hope to get the next update sent to Apple this weekend, so it should go live as soon as they have checked it (takes about a week).

Thanks for your feedback,

gambcl

Warped1
Aug 23, 2008, 08:32 PM
Thanks gambcl!!!!! I was just thinking yesterday to start checking for the update :cool:

The hostname addition is perfect and now the app is complete for me. I apped disconnected from itunes (thru phone store app) and lost my data but didn't mind re-entering it with the new interface. I agree on blanking the 00s.

the editing isnt obvious so I understand the user above not knowing. When you click edit and have the delete options open, you should put the blue arrow there also instead of the square thingy.

My only real complaint is how if you don't open safari first, it will not establish a connection with the phone network. If you close, connect in safari and come back it's fine. I can live with it if nothing can be done.

Thanks again for your work. I hope you make some $$.

Rigby
Aug 24, 2008, 02:18 AM
the editing isnt obvious so I understand the user above not knowing. When you click edit and have the delete options open, you should put the blue arrow there also instead of the square thingy.I actually tried the blue arrow thingy, but must have missed the button when tapping, so I thought it was supposed to take me to the wake dialog. I think it is coherent with the iPhone user interface guidelines though, but maybe your proposal would be even better?
Thanks again for your work. I hope you make some $$.Seconded. :D It is a useful little utility and certainly deserves it a lot more than all the crappy flashlights and tip calculators in the app store ...

Jowl
Aug 27, 2008, 02:36 AM
Re: Editing existing entries - I missed this at first too!

My problem at the moment is that the App thinks it's up to date - but it's not. I'm still running 1.0.0! I guess I'm going to have to delete and re-install? I'll wait for the new version first though I think.

This is definatley the most usefull App I have- I use it several times a day I reckon. As I use it to wake my PC from off, it means I don't have to sit and wait for Windows to boot - I can start up while I'm in another room :D

gambcl
Aug 27, 2008, 03:40 AM
Hi Jowl,

The App itself plays no part in the updating, so it sounds like Apple's dodgy update code.
I've heard so many complaints from other app developers about updating. Some are almost scared
to release updates because sometimes the phone or iTunes wipes the app data for no reason,
when it is supposed to be left intact during an update. Also iTunes doesn't seem to be able to
count the number of updates available properly, they definitely have some work to do in this area.

I'm hoping the September iPhone update will fix a lot of these problems.

Anyway, I sent SleepOver 1.1.1 to Apple 2 days ago, so just waiting for it to go live now.
On past performance it seems to take Apple 6-11 days to put app updates out, so I expect to
see it next week sometime.

This release fixes my own little update bug (sorry folks), so I would wait for 1.1.1 if you can,
but if you can't you can just delete and re-enter you hosts to make them work in 1.1.0.

Also the IP/MAC fields now auto-clear when you tap them so you don't have to position the cursor
and delete characters, you just tap and type. The keyboard used for hostnames has been changed to
the URL keyboard now (same as Safari uses) which is also faster to use.

There is now a system preference so you can choose what confirmation you want that a packet was sent:
sound, message, none

And you can now tap a button to save the result of a hostname lookup into the IP address field.

Next I'm looking at the issue of forcing the EDGE/3G data connection up when SleepOver starts so that you
don't have to start Safari first :-) if I get something worthwhile it will be in the next update.

Happy waking,

gambcl

Warped1
Aug 27, 2008, 08:19 AM
Hi Jowl,

Next I'm looking at the issue of forcing the EDGE/3G data connection up when SleepOver starts so that you
don't have to start Safari first :-) if I get something worthwhile it will be in the next update.

gambcl


Sweet!

Jowl
Aug 27, 2008, 03:20 PM
There lots of things I like about this App but developer support/response is right up the top!

Will wait for the update, re-installing if necessary. I have had trouble with iTunes giving me the wrong number of App updates.

Sleepover is just better and better.

Thanks gambcl

gambcl
Sep 2, 2008, 12:01 PM
Looks like SleepOver 1.1.1 is now live in the App Store. I hope everyone's updating goes smoothly ;-)

gambcl

Rigby
Sep 3, 2008, 01:55 PM
Update works fine for me. My hosts from the previous version are still there and work. MAC entry is much better now.

The wooosh startled me a bit though. :eek: :o

bakuna
Sep 23, 2008, 06:02 PM
I followed this thread and see that some people managed to get SleepOver to
work over internet . LAN over internet would be particularily useful to my needs but i can't get it to work with my NETGEAR WGR614v9 router, believe me i read everything , tried everything . it worked only once though . i gave up now and willing to get new router which may work for waking my Mac Pro from sleep from remote location . i see some of you guys done it with success. can you suggest which router i should go for to wake MacPro?

P.S i've been over to SleepOver site and seen some routers that work ok but your comments would be a bonus .

thx

alansmallen
Sep 26, 2008, 06:14 AM
You could always try this bad boy.http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=286568674&mt=8

bakuna
Sep 26, 2008, 07:32 AM
i have sorted it out . with patient help of Mr Gamle of SleepOver app . apparently not all routers allow you to wake over internet . Linksus WRG160N
with correct configuration of dd-wrt firmware did it for me.