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arn
May 17, 2002, 09:54 PM
Spymac provides (http://www.spymac.com/) hints of upcoming iBook and iMac Special Edition (SE) models. Details, however are lacking.

Apple has introduced previous SE models (http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/stats/imac_se_dv_400.html) starting back in 1999.

Brent Turbo
May 17, 2002, 10:15 PM
Why even bother posting rumors from the site that created AND propagated the iWalk rumors, and other fine hoaxes? That's a pretty crummy way to try to gain popularity, and now they're posing as a real rumour source. I think they should be shunned.

Brent Turbo
_____________
12.0 GHz iWalk
240GB ram
3" DVD-R
20TB 1.0" HD

firewire2001
May 17, 2002, 10:25 PM
i dont personally think that apple is going to introduce se models... i think that this was only a fad that affected the original imacs and ibooks.

like.. for instance, the se imacs and powerbooks were specially colored... how would apple change around its imac? and anyways.. it looks like the port on the existing imac are pretty close together.. unlike the original imac that had space in the port area...

maybe apple will release dual processor imacsk, and give em some special name or sumthin? just a thought...

Mr. Anderson
May 17, 2002, 10:29 PM
We just had a cross site flame war going on with SpyMac which started because people on the MacRumors forum were trash talking SpyMac on a regular basis, people like you. It ended peacefully and I think everyone wants to keep it that way. Try not to start it up again.

Besides, SpyMac has, beleive it or not, actually provided some acurrate rumors. So they're first big rumor was a fiasco, let it pass and move on. Arn posts the rumors he finds, because that's exactly what they are, it really shouldn't matter all that much where they come from.

arn
May 17, 2002, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by Brent Turbo
Why even bother posting rumors from the site that created AND propagated the iWalk rumors, and other fine hoaxes? That's a pretty crummy way to try to gain popularity, and now they're posing as a real rumour source. I think they should be shunned.


Yes... some people dislike MacOSrumors. some dislike Spymac. some dislike Macrumors.

As dukestreet stated... let's avoid a full out rumor site jihad and instead focus on technology we all want today that we can't have until tommorrow. :)

arn

alex_ant
May 17, 2002, 11:20 PM
I didn't even know there was a Mac Rumors / Spymac flamewar. I wish someone would have told me, so I could have been around for it. What would Macrumors - heck, what would the whole Internet be without flamewars? I'd say it would be boring as hell. Personally I need a good flamewar every other week or so, because otherwise I would just slip into an All-Hail-Jobs coma like around 20% of the people on this site already have.

[edit: seriously... let's stay on topic.... :) ]

Thank you,
Alex

(And to make this post on-topic: iBook and iMac SEs would suck! That is all.)

Backtothemac
May 18, 2002, 12:17 AM
Originally posted by Brent Turbo
Why even bother posting rumors from the site that created AND propagated the iWalk rumors, and other fine hoaxes? That's a pretty crummy way to try to gain popularity, and now they're posing as a real rumour source. I think they should be shunned.

Brent Turbo
_____________
12.0 GHz iWalk
240GB ram
3" DVD-R
20TB 1.0" HD

Ok, I know that everyone has already responded to the flamebait, but I have to as well. Look, everyone has opinions, and the fact it that uninformed opinions are just stupid comments meant to insight a pie throwing contest. SpyMac either got played, or they played us. Big friggin deal. It was very entertaining, and wel all loved it, just some of us won't admit it. Now since then they have been very good in their rumor postings. Hey they called the eMac, and noone saw that coming. So, be careful who you pick on. Some of us have had issues with them, but we recently kissed and made up. So tread with caution, or you may be shunned.

Now on the topic....
Did a little diggin, and there is some validity to these rumors. May not be for this upgrade, but the rumor that I am now hearing is that the special edition will have the G4!!! Cannot confirm the speed, but it will be at a price point that is attractive to consumers and pros that want a smaller footprint that the Ti. No, I don't think that will steal sales from the Ti, but it could impress consumers to the iBook that have never gone to a portable before. :cool:

alex_ant
May 18, 2002, 12:20 AM
Arn, you bastard. :)

Backtothemac
May 18, 2002, 12:25 AM
Originally posted by alex_ant
Arn, you bastard. :)

ODG that is the funniest thing I have seen here in a long time. That was really good. Can't wait til it says....

[edit: Alex is mad at me and used a poo poo word]
last edited by Arn.
:D ;) :p :D

arn
May 18, 2002, 12:29 AM
:)

Ok... regarding the topic... I think a SE souped-up iBook would be very welcome. Personally, I far prefer the iBook form factor to the TiBook. In fact... I would prefer a smaller portable if they would make one.

arn

Backtothemac
May 18, 2002, 12:39 AM
Originally posted by arn
:)

Ok... regarding the topic... I think a SE souped-up iBook would be very welcome. Personally, I far prefer the iBook form factor to the TiBook. In fact... I would prefer a smaller portable if they would make one.

arn
I agree...
I would love to see the SE offer either the 14inch or 12 inch. Now that would be awesome, but the noise being put off is that the SE will be the 14 with a G4, 30 Gig, 256, and combo. Also would only have a 100 MHZ bus?!?

That is the only complaint that I have. Get 266 DDR in everything!

xelterran
May 18, 2002, 07:13 AM
but if apple is going to introduce this SE imac it would be cool if it had a display similar to the cinema display - maby not as large but maby like the same shape?

mr.w
May 18, 2002, 10:20 AM
I'm thinking that the smartest move by apple would be to introduce a completely new machine..... the ebook. a 700(or so)mhz (G3) 100mhz bus w/ a 20 gig HD, 256 RAM, combo drive, 12 in screen. As well as a new ibook, 600-667 mhz (G4) 100mhz bus, 30 gig HD, 256 RAM, combo drive, and 12 & 14 in screens. It's just an idea..... What do you think?

Falleron
May 18, 2002, 11:33 AM
Read this article.

http://www.eweek.com/article0,3658,s%253D1884%2526a%253D16326,00.asp

It seems to be saying that the new Sahara chip has Altivec like operations! Therefore, there is no need to use the G4.


QUOTE: However, sources told eWeek that the Sahara chip will feature an "AltiVec-like acceleration" a ....

King Cobra
May 18, 2002, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by Falleron
Read this article.

http://www.eweek.com/article0,3658,s%253D1884%2526a%253D16326,00.asp

It seems to be saying that the new Sahara chip has Altivec like operations! Therefore, there is no need to use the G4.


QUOTE: However, sources told eWeek that the Sahara chip will feature an "AltiVec-like acceleration" a ....

Just clicked on the link, I got a 404.

Page not found.
__________________

Any time is a great time for iPod.

Falleron
May 18, 2002, 11:39 AM
Sorry, here is a copy of the page.

QUOTE FROM EWEEK .

IBM next week will announce a new PowerPC ranging in megahertz from 700MHz to 1GHz that could shift the balance of power in the professional Mac market away from Motorola Inc. and its PowerPC G4.

ADVERTISEMENT

eWeek has learned that Big Blue next week will introduce a new processor, code-named Sahara, that could represent the next significant jump in both megahertz and overall performance, according to sources. In addition, Sahara may match current performance advantages of the PowerPC G4's AltiVec acceleration--which Apple markets under the name Velocity Engine--due to new technology that boosts Mac software performance across the board.

IBM will reportedly announce Sahara next Wednesday, probably at the Microprocessor Forum seminar in San Jose, Calif.

Sahara will be the successor to the G3 line that powers Apple's current iBook and iMac families as well as older pro Power Macs and PowerBooks, according to sources. The Sahara will debut sometime in 2002 -- it is scheduled to be released in small quantities to original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) for testing by the start of November -- and will range in speed from 700MHz to 1GHz. However, this is no indication of when Sahara-based products might reach store shelves.

Technically, the G3 belongs to the 750 line of microprocessors developed originally by the now-defunct AIM (Apple, IBM, Motorola) alliance for use with the Mac OS.

In the past two years, the G3 has been relegated to Apple's consumer and lower-priced product lines; the units targeted at professionals have been built around Motorola's G4 (PowerPC 74xx-series) processor. These feature the AltiVec co-processor, a 128-bit unit that can take instructions, usually graphics subroutines, and crunch them at a higher speed with no hit on the main processing functions. As a result, AltiVec-aware applications usually see a performance boost on G4 systems. (Apple has stated that the display engine behind Mac OS X also takes advantage of the G4's AltiVec acceleration.)

However, sources told eWeek that the Sahara chip will feature an "AltiVec-like acceleration" and not require the AltiVec co-processor in order to provide a speed boost to applications. Details were not yet available as to whether this is due to new hardware or code mapping, but sources said Sahara's technology is entirely distinct from AltiVec.

Sahara will be constructed using a combination of copper and silicon-on-insulator technologies, previously seen only in a PowerPC processor made especially for Unix-based servers. A simi-lar SOI process is planned for upcoming generations of Motorola processors.

Sources also said a revised version of Sahara, called Sahara 2, will be released sometime in 2002. Although details are scarce, Sahara 2 will be moved from Sahara's CMOS 8 (0.18 micron) to CMOS 9 (0.13-micron) fabricating technology.

Sahara will also be marketed by IBM for use as a very high-end embedded chip; sources indicate that companies such as Epson, Kyocera and Nokia, in addition to Apple, have placed preliminary orders for models of the processor.

King Cobra
May 18, 2002, 11:47 AM
This sounds like great news, but I think that the article would get more views if you made a separate thread for it, instead of making a continuation of a thread, which many people have seen and basically have other threads about iBooks to reply to.

Again, that is great news.
__________________

Any time is a great time for iPod.

Falleron
May 18, 2002, 12:51 PM
I think its quite an old article (Nov 2001) and it has been seen before. Still, it would be a great addition to the G3 + the ibook.

King Cobra
May 18, 2002, 01:17 PM
Let's say Apple uses the chip in their products. Will Apple still call their products by G3 or G4? Or will they be calling their products, maybe, iBook Sahara 700MHz?

The only concern I have about this chip is that it probably will not be names the G5, since this seems to be a different chip. So I was wondering what Apple will call their consumer products with this Sahara chip in them.
__________________

Any time is a great time for iPod.

Falleron
May 18, 2002, 02:19 PM
I dont reckon that they will change their naming scheme. It will stay as a G3 I think. HOWEVER, what if IBM has a say 1.5Ghz "Super G3" which is named the G5 (Altivec like unit, redesigned FPU units etc - i.e. lots of changes could allow a new name)?? Could this be where apple gets their new chips?

Example, the G4 is just a glorified G3!

Mr. Anderson
May 18, 2002, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by Falleron
I think its quite an old article (Nov 2001) and it has been seen before. Still, it would be a great addition to the G3 + the ibook.

This is the first I've heard about it, I hate coming in late on a good piece of speculation. But even if it was in Nov 01, now is about the right time to see it appear. By Apple moving more and more of its machines to the G4, IBM is left out. Now they might have an alternative to the G4 for the iBook and IBM stays in the game. I like it, makes a huge amount of sense.

King Cobra
May 18, 2002, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by dukestreet

This is the first I've heard about it, I hate coming in late on a good piece of speculation.

If you think that is bad, basically every weekday I have class I will miss a lot of information and will not be able to post until after 15:00.

I found this quote from the article interesting... Sahara will be constructed using a combination of copper and silicon-on-insulator technologies, previously seen only in a PowerPC processor made especially for Unix-based servers. A simi-lar SOI process is planned for upcoming generations of Motorola processors.

The article seems to bring up Motorola and the possibility that a new chip process will be planned for the company. The last time I checked, Motorola was enjoying getting a suntan by their outdoor pool instead of getting their chips ready for Apple. Is this really a smart move: embedding plans for Motorola's future chips when Motorola has been keeping Apple behind?
__________________

Any time is a great time for iPod.

Falleron
May 18, 2002, 02:55 PM
Take a look at this article.

http://news.com.com/2100-1001-257421.html?legacy=cnet

Something is going on!

King Cobra
May 18, 2002, 03:00 PM
Well, it's over a year old. But so far everything in that article as far as I can tell is accurate. So this probably means that there will be a 2000MHz G3 chip ready by the end of the year. But it only seems to be useful for the iBook IF ANYTHING and when G4 speeds in other products approach extremely fast speeds. I do not see how the iBook is going to stay with a G3 for more than a year, however, since OS X and many other applications need AltiVec. Eventually, when G3 and G4 speeds peak, the G3 will appear a lot slower, just as it does under certain comparisons of G3 vs. G4.
__________________

Any time is a great time for iPod.

Falleron
May 18, 2002, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by King Cobra
Well, it's over a year old. But so far everything in that article as far as I can tell is accurate. So this probably means that there will be a 2000MHz G3 chip ready by the end of the year. But it only seems to be useful for the iBook IF ANYTHING and when G4 speeds in other products approach extremely fast speeds. I do not see how the iBook is going to stay with a G3 for more than a year, however, since OS X and many other applications need AltiVec. Eventually, when G3 and G4 speeds peak, the G3 will appear a lot slower, just as it does under certain comparisons of G3 vs. G4.
__________________

Any time is a great time for iPod.

I dont reckon the G3 would be slower (I could be completely wrong)! With IBM behind it (A lot of money + know how) + if it does have "Altivec" like capabilities it could be a big performance gain!

Another interesting article (mostly re-states material from other article but has some important info).

http://www.macopinion.com/columns/roadwarrior/02/03/12/

King Cobra
May 18, 2002, 03:15 PM
In my previous post, when I said slower, I did not mean MHz, but rather performance-wise with certain applications using the G4.

With all of these articles that are being brought up, there is much more talk about a faster "G3" Sahara chip and iBooks than the use of this chip in any other of Apple's lines of products. I would expect the new chip to first be used it newer PowerMacs, then the chip would progress down the line to Apple's cousin models (Powerbook, iMac, iBook).
__________________

Any time is a great time for iPod.

xelterran
May 18, 2002, 03:26 PM
if you look on apples website they still have the "new" tag on the imac, im skeptical if it will be updated...

King Cobra
May 18, 2002, 03:30 PM
If xelterran is talking about my last post...
if you look on apples website they still have the "new" tag on the imac, im skeptical if it will be updated...

Easy, big guy. I meant later on, maybe in 2003. We might see these upgrades occur. The iMac is fine the way it is, just as the Powerbook is fine and has been updated. We may see the Sahara chip much later.
__________________

Any time is a great time for iPod.

arn
May 18, 2002, 03:34 PM
we talked about this eWeek article when it came out Oct 01

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2001/10/20011011200108.shtml

This is what came of it:

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2001/10/20011016071623.shtml

arn

Falleron
May 18, 2002, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by arn
we talked about this eWeek article when it came out Oct 01

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2001/10/20011011200108.shtml

This is what came of it:

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2001/10/20011016071623.shtml

arn
Cheers Arn, I was sure that we already discussed the new IBM chips.

numb_brain
May 18, 2002, 05:04 PM
While everyone is talking about the sahara G3 from IBM, which still has to come out if i'm not mistaking, I was wondering about the following thing:

The latest TiPB's have a PPC 7455 (which support L3 cache), while there also is a cooler 7445 version (not supporting L3) being produced by MOT. Wouldn't it make sense to put the 7445 in the new ibooks, seen the fact that they don't put L3 in there anyway? It might even run cool enough so it wouldn't need an extra cooling fan...

Or is there any reason why Apple couldn't use these babies in their ibooks?

Any thoughts about this, anyone?

King Cobra
May 18, 2002, 05:31 PM
Not knowing this as a fact, I would <assume> that since most/all G4 products are using a fan, even the lowest-powered G4 throws off too much heat for the portable to handle. This may mean that even if the iBook got a 7455 chip in it at low speeds, it would still get excessively hot. So a fan would be needed to cool off the unit.
__________________

This has been my 2 cents.

peterjhill
May 18, 2002, 06:40 PM
My fan rarely comes on, on my Ti800. If it does it is super silent, because I can't hear it. It is super nice, my last set of computers (a dell optiplex and latitude) that I had running together in my office made quite a racket. I love how quiet my office is

Spock
May 18, 2002, 06:53 PM
All I want is a 700Mhz iBook and a 1Ghz iMac,

Please Steve make me happy again!!

numb_brain
May 18, 2002, 07:44 PM
Wouldn't it make sense to put the 7445 in the new ibooks, seen the fact that they don't put L3 in there anyway? It might even run cool enough so it wouldn't need an extra cooling fan...

I've done some research and this is what i've found:

the 7455 has a powerdissipation of 21.3 W @ 1GHz
the 7445 10.3 W @ 733 MHz
the 750 CXE (G3) 6.0 W @ 600 MHz

If I'm not mistaking, the Cube didn't have a fan either, so I think those geniuses at Apple might pull off a G4 ibook without a fan if they wanted to...