More bad economic news.

[Taft]

Nation's Retailers Have Glum Weekend (http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/sns-ap-holiday-shopping,1,1473188.story?coll=chi-business-hed)

With more stories like this appearing every day, it is clear to me that the economy is in a dire situation. Further, this overwhelming wave of negative economic news is bound to hurt President Bush's chances at re-election.

If you look at unemployment numbers since Bush took office, the recent trend of poor consumer confidence, the poor showing retailers have had this holiday season, not to mention the administration's stumbles on the tax cuts, it is easy to picture a landslide for the unnamed Democract running against Bush next year. This, combined with the Bush administration's obvious improprieties with big business will make the American people turn out in droves for the Democrats in the next elections.

I mean, with all of the corporate scandals, Cheney's energy task force debacle, the continuing crisis in Iraq and the Mid-East, less environmental protection, etc., etc. it is easy to see why Americans are going to the Democratic party en masse. The only sane thing to do is to accept that the Democrats will win in 2004. So join the bandwagon (before its too late!!!) and vote for them in 2004.

(evil) Taft

[zimv20]

at the company i work for, we did gangbuster retail biz over the website until about a week ago, then it dropped WAY off.

[Stelliform]

....

[g5man]

:D :D

I know you wanted to bait me, and I am thrilled. You can keep this going with negative news and how it will hurt Bush and I will do the opposite.:)

[Sayhey]

Originally posted by g5man
:D :D

I know you wanted to bait me, and I am thrilled. You can keep this going with negative news and how it will hurt Bush and I will do the opposite.:)

I think you miss the point, g5man. He is not really endorsing the prospect of bad news, but rather is making fun of your approach. It is called satire.

[g5man]

Originally posted by Sayhey
I think you miss the point, g5man. He is not really endorsing the prospect of bad news, but rather is making fun of your approach. It is called satire.

No you missed the two happy faces on my post and the satire from my end.:)

[Sayhey]

Originally posted by g5man
No you missed the two happy faces on my post and the satire from my end.:)

You're right! I missed the fact that your two happy faces recognized the absurdity of crowing over every piece of good economic news as if it mandated a landslide for Georgie a year from now.

[Ugg]

Link (http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_world_business/view/63445/1/.html)

WASHINGTON : US factories reported an unexpected plunge in big-ticket orders in November, the government said, a worrying sign in the early stages of economic recovery.

New orders for durable items such as planes, cars or washing machines tumbled 3.1 percent in November, defying Wall Street analysts' expectations of a modest increase, the Commerce Department said.

"Let's not panic just yet. These were ugly numbers, but they also jump around a lot. Don't be surprised if the December data are much better," said Naroff Economic Advisors president Joel Naroff.

"But the report is just another reminder that we have a way to go before we can shrug off this type of information as just a blip in the expansion."

Orders for computers and products dropped 10.8 percent, pounded by a spectacular 40-percent crash in communication orders.

In transport, new orders for civilian aircraft descended 13.9 percent, orders for warplanes dived 9.1 percent and motor vehicle orders reversed 1.2 percent.

Defense orders, a major support for industry during the Afghanistan and Iraq wars, retreated 4.7 percent.

A key barometer of future business investment plans -- civilian capital goods orders excluding aircraft -- slid 5.9 percent.

But unfilled orders, a closely watched guide to future activity, rose 0.4 percent.

The grim news from US factories followed a solid 4.0-percent jump in new durable goods orders in October.

- AFP

[g5man]

Originally posted by Taft
Nation's Retailers Have Glum Weekend (http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/sns-ap-holiday-shopping,1,1473188.story?coll=chi-business-hed)

With more stories like this appearing every day, it is clear to me that the economy is in a dire situation. Further, this overwhelming wave of negative economic news is bound to hurt President Bush's chances at re-election.

If you look at unemployment numbers since Bush took office, the recent trend of poor consumer confidence, the poor showing retailers have had this holiday season, not to mention the administration's stumbles on the tax cuts, it is easy to picture a landslide for the unnamed Democract running against Bush next year. This, combined with the Bush administration's obvious improprieties with big business will make the American people turn out in droves for the Democrats in the next elections.

I mean, with all of the corporate scandals, Cheney's energy task force debacle, the continuing crisis in Iraq and the Mid-East, less environmental protection, etc., etc. it is easy to see why Americans are going to the Democratic party en masse. The only sane thing to do is to accept that the Democrats will win in 2004. So join the bandwagon (before its too late!!!) and vote for them in 2004.

(evil) Taft

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,106895,00.html

Niemira believes that overall same-store sales growth is on track to meet his forecast of 4 percent for the November-December period, reduced earlier in the season from 4.5 percent. That's on top of a meager 0.5 percent gain during holiday 2002 from the previous year.
Same-store sales growth, or sales at stores opened at least a year, are considered the best indicator of a retailer's health.
While modest — given that stores hoped to benefit more from a recovering economy — the expected gain will still be the biggest since 1999, when Niemira's tally posted a 5.4 percent increase.


The nation's retailers are slated to report final December same-store sales figures on Jan. 8.


On Monday,_MasterCard Advisors (search), a unit of MasterCard International, said that total sales were up 6.5 percent from Nov. 28 through Dec. 24, compared with a year ago. The figures were adjusted to reflect the extra day this holiday season.

Sometime I think You guys live on a different planet.

[Stelliform]

.....

[mactastic]

From the very_same_article...

A late spending surge helped boost sales last week for many merchants, according to data released Monday, offering relief to retailers in a holiday season that is still projected to be only modestly better than a year ago.
Only modestly better, and this is your good news? Do you even read these articles all the way through before you trot them out as evidence that GWB will wipe the floor with his opponent in November? And these things are in the article YOU posted here!
"This holiday season was solid, and it was better than last year, but it wasn't the euphoria people were expecting," he said. "Not everybody got gifts from Santa."
Even FOX isn't as rosy about the recovery as you are.
One major plus for the season is that profits are expected to be healthy because of lean inventories and the lack of across-the-board discounting that characterized last year's season, Kowalczyk said. Even as the season got more challenging, stores went ahead with another round of planned discounts, but they "weren't panic promotions," he said.
Glad it's not "panic promotion" time anymore.

[g5man]

Why do you guys enjoy pointing out anything that looks negative?

I point out that Christmas Retail numbers will come out 4% better than last year, and you focus on anything negative. Please look at the beginning of this thread.

I point out that the GDP grows by 8% last quarter and you talk about the fact it is only one quarter.

I show that Unemployment is down to 5.9 from 6.4 and you see nothing to get excited about.

Try to be a little more upbeat about this country and this economy.

I am not saying we have reached the top but we moving in that direction.

I can already see most of your responses in a year. Yeah the economy grew but only the rich people benefited from the growth.

This negativity will not help but sometimes I don't think you care one bit.

[pseudobrit]

Originally posted by g5man
I show that Unemployment is down to 5.9 from 6.4 and you see nothing to get excited about.

It's not down.

Jobless count skips millions (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/latimes_ts/20031229/ts_latimes/joblesscountskipsmillions)

Try to be a little more upbeat about this country and this economy.

When things start going more upbeat, I may be in better spirits.

This negativity will not help but sometimes I don't think you care one bit.

Negativity? Ironic that you would accuse someone of that.

[Stelliform]

.....

[IJ Reilly]

Originally posted by Stelliform
I find it very interesting that the economy has become a political weapon.

Become? Where you been at for the last 25 years, man? Don't you remember, "Are you better off now then you were four years ago?"

That's the kind of question that wins elections.

[Taft]

And here I was, hoping that this thread would start a conversation about questionable methods of argument, the use of selective evidence, etc.

Yet here we are, reading the same old house of card predictions.

You know, I still fail to see the use in debating which candidate has a better chance of winning. It basically amounts to a propaganda contest where everyone thinks that if they make their candidate look better through boast and clever marketing, then they might be able to "sell" their candidate to more people and win the election.

Here's a thought: Let's talk about stuff that actually matters! Like the candidates qualifications. Or where candidates stand on certain issues and how those stands holds up in the context of the candidate's political history. Or the integrety of the candidates.

So stop telling me that Bush or Dean or Kerry will be president and start telling me why they should be or deserve to be president.

Taft

[g5man]

OK.

Bush is most qualified to win because:

Most people believe he will defend this country.

Most people understand that he is honest.

Most people like who is as a person.

Most people like tax cuts.

and Most people wrongly believe that the markets are going up because of him and wrongly believe that the interest rates are low because of him.

Thats pretty much a simple yet true method to explain why he will win.

Dean or any of the other candidates are not qualified to be president because;

They believe that gov. can take care of everyone.

If you don't have a job they will make sure you get unemployment for ever.

They don't believe this country needs a military which is too big.

They believe we can negotiate with terrorists. 12 years with Saddam and 6 years with bin Ladin.

They want to raise your taxes.

They don't like coorportations and would like to nationalize most industries.

They don't like it if you love marriage between a man and a woman, don't like it if you own a gun, don't like it if you show the US flag at anti-war rallies and so on.

They want to make sure that Social Security is your only retirement.

And there really is no difference between Dean and the rest of them.

[zimv20]

Originally posted by g5man
OK.

Bush is most qualified to win because:

Most people believe he will defend this country.

Most people understand that he is honest.

Most people like who is as a person.

Most people like tax cuts.

and Most people wrongly believe that the markets are going up because of him and wrongly believe that the interest rates are low because of him.

Thats pretty much a simple yet true method to explain why he will win.

Dean or any of the other candidates are not qualified to be president because;

They believe that gov. can take care of everyone.

If you don't have a job they will make sure you get unemployment for ever.

They don't believe this country needs a military which is too big.

They believe we can negotiate with terrorists. 12 years with Saddam and 6 years with bin Ladin.

They want to raise your taxes.

They don't like coorportations and would like to nationalize most industries.

They don't like it if you love marriage between a man and a woman, don't like it if you own a gun, don't like it if you show the US flag at anti-war rallies and so on.

They want to make sure that Social Security is your only retirement.

And there really is no difference between Dean and the rest of them.

bollocks. you're relying on stereotype and avoiding actual issue discussion. the big bad propaganda machine has mushied your brain. MUSHIED!

[Awimoway]

I wish people were more mature about politics. I wish people wouldn't treat it like a high school popularity contest: My candidate walks on water. He does no wrong. Your candidate eats babies for breakfast and impregnates animals for fun and profit.

Get real. It can't always be rosy when your (wo)man is in charge, and it can't all be armageddon when your (wo)man is not in charge.

The economy sucks, but it's showing tentative healing signs. It won't recover overnight.

[g5man]

:D :cool: :cool: :D lol

The issues have been discussed.

Tax cuts work. Tax increases do not.


There is no debate on marriage.

And the rest, oh who has the time.

[IJ Reilly]

I don't see this guy's posts unless somebody else quotes them back. I run into enough talk radio poisoning without getting it here. So please, do me a favor... don't quote this person back. It really isn't worth the bandwidth. Thanks.

[g5man]

Originally posted by IJ Reilly
I don't see this guy's posts unless somebody else quotes them back. I run into enough talk radio poisoning without getting it here. So please, do me a favor... don't quote this person back. It really isn't worth the bandwidth. Thanks.

Why do you choose to live in denial. The economy is improving, the Democrats are lost, and predicting a landslide is too easy. Just remember that I said it, and you do read it.

I am in a good mood today:D

[Awimoway]

Man you are annoying. Smug and prone to needling people just for the "halibut." I've never blocked anyone before. Gonna be a first for me.

[vniow]

Originally posted by Awimoway
Man you are annoying. Smug and prone to needling people just for the "halibut." I've never blocked anyone before. Gonna be a first for me.

Pfft, you should've seen him in his other screennames, too bad he edited out pretty much everything he posted, especially predictions about political stuffs which never came true...

[g5man]

Originally posted by Awimoway
Man you are annoying. Smug and prone to needling people just for the "halibut." I've never blocked anyone before. Gonna be a first for me.

First of all I have never seen you post here, so I don't know what you plan on debating or commenting on. Secondly how do you block someone? You either choose to read or choose not to read.

And lastly I am sorry that I annoy you but welcome.

[zimv20]

Originally posted by g5man
<<message to IJReilly>>

what's really amusing is that you just found out he blocks your posts, yet you choose to reply to him anyway

a confederacy, indeed

[g5man]

Originally posted by zimv20
what's really amusing is that you just found out he blocks your posts, yet you choose to reply to him anyway

a confederacy, indeed

Ok I am not that much of a computer nerd. So I can block someone's post? I never knew that.

But you do have to admit that I am amusing you and that in itself is worth something.:D

[IJ Reilly]

a confederacy, indeed

:p:) :D

[Taft]

I think this cartoon speaks of the tone of this thread quite nicely.

Do people really believe this kind of rhetoric will change people's minds? Since when was being a party propogandist all the rage with pundits?

Taft

[IJ Reilly]

Originally posted by Taft
Do people really believe this kind of rhetoric will change people's minds? Since when was being a party propogandist all the rage with pundits?

I can't answer the "since when" question, but the cartoon below is one of at least five nasty anti-Dean doodles Ramirez has done for the LA Times. I guess it's of some service to readers to know what the RNC's strategy is on any given day, but it's not exactly thoughtful political commentary.

[Stelliform]

.....

[vniow]

Originally posted by Stelliform
I have never figured out how you only have 6 posts?!?! Are you in a MacRumors purgatory or something?

Posts in the political forum don't count towards total post count.

[Stelliform]

Ohh, I didn't know Arn implemented that rule. I am glad he did!

[IJ Reilly]

Originally posted by Stelliform
Ohh, I didn't know Arn implemented that rule. I am glad he did!

Why?

[Robertk2012]

One word Gift Cards. Hmmmm that seems to be two. Well two words it is. Gift cards cant be counted as sales until they are cashed in. Sales of Gift cards were up substantially along with internet sales. Returns also seemed to be down thanks to gift reciepts. Didnt any of you notice that with the gift reciepts an item could only be returned for store credit.

[zimv20]

Originally posted by Robertk2012
Gift cards cant be counted as sales until they are cashed in.

i'll bet it's exactly the opposite

[3rdpath]

first, ditto on the ignore list...maybe he'll find someplace else to be "amusing".

second, i find ramirez to be one of the most tasteless and offensive political cartoonists in print. he's heavyhanded, prone to trite stereotyping and seldom grasps any real issue. all i can figure is that his inclusion somehow makes the l.a. times feel more balanced...or something.

[Ugg]

Originally posted by zimv20
i'll bet it's exactly the opposite

Gift cards go into the accounts payable portion of the ledger. A sale cannot be counted until the gift card is redeemed, so some of those gift cards may not be redeemed for some time or may not be redeemed at all. That amounts to an interest free loan to the company. Not a bad deal really and a great way to give a gift for those hard to buy for types.

[zimv20]

Originally posted by Ugg
Gift cards go into the accounts payable portion of the ledger. A sale cannot be counted until the gift card is redeemed, so some of those gift cards may not be redeemed for some time or may not be redeemed at all. That amounts to an interest free loan to the company. Not a bad deal really and a great way to give a gift for those hard to buy for types.

thanks for the clarification. i stand corrected.

[Stelliform]

.....

[Robertk2012]

doesnt anyone believe anything I say

[Sayhey]

Originally posted by Robertk2012
doesnt anyone believe anything I say

LOL, give us time, Robert, maybe when we get to know you better. After all you have shown that with a little effort you can count correctly. That's better than I've done on many occasions.

[Robertk2012]

yeah I have trouble once I get past two though. :D

[IJ Reilly]

Originally posted by Stelliform
Well I know Arn wrestled with what to do with the Political section. Since he has no interest in political debate, and for a while people were just joining for the political debate and not posting any Mac related info. Post count is a way to keep Mac Rumors focused on Mac related information.

I realize arn just barely tolerates this board, but I can't for the life of me understand why. I figure we contribute at least as much to the "macrumors community" as the rest of the Mac Community boards, most of which is pretty random and pointless chatter. I think it's kind of an odd policy that every single one of the 1,700 posts to the "have u ever been drunk" thread count, but none here do. If it weren't for this board, I'd probably hang out on the other macrumors boards a lot less too. I feel like we've been singled out for no good reason.

[IJ Reilly]

Originally posted by 3rdpath
first, ditto on the ignore list...maybe he'll find someplace else to be "amusing".

second, i find ramirez to be one of the most tasteless and offensive political cartoonists in print. he's heavyhanded, prone to trite stereotyping and seldom grasps any real issue. all i can figure is that his inclusion somehow makes the l.a. times feel more balanced...or something.

The worst part about it is, he's not even amusing. As in ever. Even when I don't disagree with his sentiments (which honestly, isn't often), I find his "observations" to be shallow and obvious. He draws nice, but that's about all.

[Neserk]

Originally posted by Taft
Nation's Retailers Have Glum Weekend (http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/sns-ap-holiday-shopping,1,1473188.story?coll=chi-business-hed)

With more stories like this appearing every day, it is clear to me that the economy is in a dire situation. Further, this overwhelming wave of negative economic news is bound to hurt President Bush's chances at re-election.

(evil) Taft

Let's hope so because I don't think I can stand another 4 years of him. The "I'm afraid to tell the truth about Bush" Media was trying to convince us we were going to spend more money but we just don't have it to spend. *sigh*

[Neserk]

Originally posted by Robertk2012
One word Gift Cards. Hmmmm that seems to be two. Well two words it is. Gift cards cant be counted as sales until they are cashed in. Sales of Gift cards were up substantially along with internet sales. Returns also seemed to be down thanks to gift reciepts. Didnt any of you notice that with the gift reciepts an item could only be returned for store credit.

you sure about that? They already have the money and I can't get cash for my Victoria's Secret gift card. Seems to me like it is a done deal.

Yes to the second part. I no longer shop at Target because of that policy!

[Neserk]

Originally posted by g5man

I point out that Christmas Retail numbers will come out 4% better than last year, and you focus on anything negative. Please look at the beginning of this thread.



Better than last year is like saying being in an irreversable coma instead of dead. Improvement isn't going to help, we need *recovery*!

[Neserk]

Originally posted by g5man


Most people understand that he is honest.

Most people like who is as a person.



The man who lied to get us into a war is honest? That is too funny. Like who he is as a person? The man can't even speak. I don't think Laura knows who he is as a person. He has no communications skills. The man is a puppet!

[Ugg]

Link (http://money.cnn.com/2004/01/05/markets/bondcenter/bonds/)

IMO, the biggest problem facing the US right now is the fact that we are buying too much from abroad.

n the currency market, the dollar fell to a new all-time low against the euro. The European currency bought $1.2668 before tracking back down to about $1.2653. The greenback also dipped to a recent low versus the yen of $106.26, down from $106.95 Friday.

The signs of strength in the economy could point to higher inflation in 2004, and inflation is a bond investors' worst enemy since it erodes the value of long-term investments.

The surge in the Euro isn't due to it's inherent strength rather the global fear that the US economy is in danger of overheating due to low interest rates and an extremely high foreign account deficit. The supposed war on terror has also turned away a lot of investors, especially from the middle east where the fear of being branded a terror supporter and having one's US-based assets confiscated is very real. As more and more companies send work offshore, there are fewer tax dollars flowing into the treasury. The hopes that the deficit will be reduced based on increased economic activity are largely without merit.

It's interesting that the "Buy American" campaign of the 80s has disappeared largely because in many cases it is impossible to do so.....

[Neserk]

It's interesting that the "Buy American" campaign of the 80s has disappeared largely because in many cases it is impossible to do so.....

As far as cars goes it is impossible to do so. Some part of the car came from another country or was made in another country.

[Taft]

Originally posted by Ugg

IMO, the biggest problem facing the US right now is the fact that we are buying too much from abroad.

The surge in the Euro isn't due to it's inherent strength rather the global fear that the US economy is in danger of overheating due to low interest rates and an extremely high foreign account deficit. The supposed war on terror has also turned away a lot of investors, especially from the middle east where the fear of being branded a terror supporter and having one's US-based assets confiscated is very real. As more and more companies send work offshore, there are fewer tax dollars flowing into the treasury. The hopes that the deficit will be reduced based on increased economic activity are largely without merit.

It's interesting that the "Buy American" campaign of the 80s has disappeared largely because in many cases it is impossible to do so.....

I agree this is problematic...at least for the US.

This article (http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/01/03/2337238&mode=thread&tid=137&tid=98&tid=99) from slashdot yesterday talks about that problem from the standpoint of consumer electronics. There aren't a lot of easy answers to these kinds of problems, though.

Taft