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MacRumors
Dec 22, 2003, 02:14 PM
Appleinsider posts (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=329) some more confirmation that low-cost iPods will be coming to market from Apple.

According to the rumor site, the new models will come in in both 2GB and 4GB configurations and "carry a very modest price tag".

Low-end iPod rumors began in late November (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/11/20031125132729.shtml), with a subsequent Page 2 rumor (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/12/20031215023902.shtml) claiming that 2GB "mini" iPods were making the rounds amongst select insiders. These new low-end iPods were also expected to come in a variety of colors. AppleTurns also (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/12/20031210031754.shtml) expects a new entry-level iPod to come at MacWorld San Francisco.

revenuee
Dec 22, 2003, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by Macrumors
Appleinsider posts (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=329) some more confirmation that low-cost iPods will be coming to market from Apple.

According to the rumor site, the new models will come in in both 2GB and 4GB configurations and "carry a very modest price tag".

Low-end iPod rumors began in late November (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/11/20031125132729.shtml), with a subsequent Page 2 rumor (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/12/20031215023902.shtml) claiming that 2GB "mini" iPods were making the rounds amongst select insiders. These new low-end iPods were also expected to come in a variety of colors. AppleTurns also (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/12/20031210031754.shtml) expects a new entry-level iPod to come at MacWorld San Francisco.

Oh well ... my 20 Gig is on it's way - "estimated date of arrival - December 24th by 12 am"

2 gigs would of been great - i only have 700 MB of music

oh well ... i wanna get the belkin card reader and use it when i switch over to full digital photography D100 here i come.. ya... :)

Phobophobia
Dec 22, 2003, 02:19 PM
OMG! It's actually gonna happen!

Freg3000
Dec 22, 2003, 02:21 PM
Can't see how this is possible....

The way I see it, there is no way Apple can make "mini" iPods at lower costs (unless they use flash memory, which Steve seems opposed to). 2GB and 4GB drives are just as pricey as the 10GB and 20GB varieties (or so I think). I don't see how it is possible to do have lower prices in a smaller form factor, regardless if capacities decrease.

centauratlas
Dec 22, 2003, 02:22 PM
This is a good thing, expanding market share is a positive. Better to grab that segment than abandon it to someone else.

Now make an expensive, phone pod with that range storage (e.g. xD or MMC memory) and they'll have another hit.

The only way this makes sense is with flash memory. It will result in longer battery times (or a smaller batter with the same time).

TheInevitable
Dec 22, 2003, 02:23 PM
I would buy one in a heart-beat if it cost less than $150. Even if it did come in different colors. I'm voting for black!

totally_fly
Dec 22, 2003, 02:24 PM
I'm worried about the "variety of colours."

I would never buy a pink iPod.

QCassidy352
Dec 22, 2003, 02:24 PM
it all depends on price... at $150, they would be awesome. At $250, a joke. At $200, which seems most likely, I think they'd be a pretty good deal.

usingmac
Dec 22, 2003, 02:27 PM
This is the way AOL users will embrace Ipod and Apple can kick Dells buttox.

nuckinfutz
Dec 22, 2003, 02:28 PM
I'll take a 4GB. 2GB is too small. 4GB is just a wee bit smaller than the original iPod and is where the low cost iPod needs to be.

$149 and I'll buy one next summer.

TheInevitable
Dec 22, 2003, 02:28 PM
The other day I saw that Apple has old 10GB ones for $169. So they aren't affraid to sell them for cheap.

Even though hard drives with smaller capacity cost about the same to make, maybe Apple got a sweet deal from Toshiba on all their old clearance drives or something.

Narles
Dec 22, 2003, 02:28 PM
Sweet news.

revenuee
Dec 22, 2003, 02:32 PM
I wonder if they will be physically smaller .... i guess they wouldn't be if they use hard drives rather then flash..

any thoughts?

Le Big Mac
Dec 22, 2003, 02:35 PM
Sweet idea. But I have to say, why are they doing this after christmas. sure, perhaps you pillage regular ipod sales, but can you imagine the number of these that would end up under trees at $149/199 each? $299/399/499 is getting up there for presents. Sure, some folks can easily afford that, but a lot of america isn't giving someone a $300 present, especially without really knowing the recipient's needs. At $149, though, you have the spur-of-the-moment, who cares, let them return it purchases.

Great idea. Odd timing.

Le Big Mac
Dec 22, 2003, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by revenuee
I wonder if they will be physically smaller .... i guess they wouldn't be if they use hard drives rather then flash..

any thoughts?

How much smaller can you make it and retain a similar appearance? Sure, a bit thinner, and a bit more square (less below the buttons), but really you can't shrink it to the size of a wrist watch and retain both the LCD and decent sized buttons.

blueBomber
Dec 22, 2003, 02:41 PM
The only flaw I see in this prediction is the colors idea. Steve seems to be very over the idea of multiple fruity colors. Everything is very art deco right now. I just don't see it happening.

dho
Dec 22, 2003, 02:41 PM
Hmmm interesting

if the use the recently rumored smaller hard drives, it will make for an interesting low end iPod.

I dont think steve will like the idea of having the low end ones being smaller, hmmm

im sure their is some sort of compromise.

My growing 500 mb itms collection will fit nicely on a 2gb model

fatbarstard
Dec 22, 2003, 02:43 PM
Seems that these new smaller ipods will use the new 1" drives that are being developed, thus the size of the device could be smaller....

Also even if the price of the drives is the same as 10GB or 20GB Apple would be on selling truckloads of these devices and thus lower the price of the drives.. bulk buying always works!!

Just think! Hot Pink iPods for the girls and any colour as long as its black for the guys... maybe a range for the 'tweens'...

jettredmont
Dec 22, 2003, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by Freg3000
Can't see how this is possible....

The way I see it, there is no way Apple can make "mini" iPods at lower costs (unless they use flash memory, which Steve seems opposed to). 2GB and 4GB drives are just as pricey as the 10GB and 20GB varieties (or so I think). I don't see how it is possible to do have lower prices in a smaller form factor, regardless if capacities decrease.

Generally speaking, hard drive cost is a factor of three things:

1) Bulk production relative to facilities size. If more of a particular size/model are made, it will tend to be somewhat cheaper. This is most apparent at the very low ends of the spectrum: producing a handful of units can lead to an exhorbitant per-unit price tag. Of course, producing more than your facilities are capable of alwo drives up cost (you have to outsource it or just let market demand remain unfulfilled).

2) Required production technology. This is actually related to the above, but bears pointing out separately. Some technologies will have more production facilities available in the short term than others.

3) Number of platters/complexity of drive. This is why an 80GB drive is often cheaper (significantly) than a 160GB drive: the 160GB drive, if using the same underlying technology and process, requires twice as many disks as the 80GB drive.

Looking at recent Toshiba announcements (http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/2003/11_nov/news/cw_tosh_drives.htm)
the 20GB uses one platter and the 40GB uses two. I presume that the 10GB uses a single platter as well, which doesn't bode well for a smaller drive being significantly cheaper.

Which brings the other issues up: is the density required for 2-4GB drives significantly cheaper to produce than the 10-GB densities? We know that the 5GB bare drive is no cheaper than the 10GB bare drive straight from Toshiba, but this might also be because of relative demand: no one is buying the 5GB drive in bulk, so the 5GB price is artificially high.

jettredmont
Dec 22, 2003, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by revenuee
Oh well ... my 20 Gig is on it's way - "estimated date of arrival - December 24th by 12 am"

2 gigs would of been great - i only have 700 MB of music

oh well ... i wanna get the belkin card reader and use it when i switch over to full digital photography D100 here i come.. ya... :)

Why didn't you get the 10GB iPod, then? If you didn't care about the Dock, you could have gotten a 5GB iPod relatively cheap on ebay ...

If 10->20GB was worth the extra $100, I would guess that 2GB->10GB would also have been worth $100 ...

uv23
Dec 22, 2003, 02:49 PM
For those who are asking how they could sell this mini iPod for less money: don't forget that there is likely a considerable margin on iPods. Apple could very well sell the mini iPods at low/no profit to 1) increase market share and b) introduce a clear upgrade path for kids who go on to pass down their 2/4 gig mini iPods and step up to a 20/40 gig iPod. It all makes perfect sense.

Personally, I'd love an iPod but I think they're currently overpriced. I'd be happy with a 2/4 gig iPod that I could use at the gym or on the plane. I'm not scared to shuffle around playlists.

Even better would be if they added extra shock/vibration resistance or even water-proofing to this new mini iPod. Another user on this forum was calling such an activity-focused iPod variant the "iPed." I think that'd be a perfect name for it.

Sir_Giggles
Dec 22, 2003, 02:57 PM
PLEASE STEVE! No Lime!!

Originally posted by blueBomber
The only flaw I see in this prediction is the colors idea. Steve seems to be very over the idea of multiple fruity colors. Everything is very art deco right now. I just don't see it happening.

bishopduke
Dec 22, 2003, 02:57 PM
!

tace
Dec 22, 2003, 02:58 PM
Too bad they didn't release these this month. I know of several friends who would have bought $150 ipods as gifts, but at $300 they are a bit too pricey for their function.

jettredmont
Dec 22, 2003, 03:03 PM
I wonder which "features" will be taken away. The Dock connector? Software capabilities (slower procs, or even just a single proc inside)? Backlight?

I think it's probably a given that the dock itself, and the remote control, are the most likely package ommissions ...

Regarding price: right now at Best Buy, a fragile 256MB Flash-base and moderately expandable MP3 player will run you close to $200. "Fragile" is because the leading manufacturers of these devices have made some bone-headed design decisions like leaving an SD card slot completely exposed to the elements (and body sweat) and cheaping out on housing construction.

See:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1056280971206&skuId=5714863&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat10200050002

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1056281016474&skuId=5720071&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat10200050002

I think a 2GB iPod, even with features chopped, so long as the design remains generally unchanged (clean, simple, sturdy), would clean up the sub-$200 category.

Granted, the competitors offer AM/FM tuners too, but reading the reviews it sounds like those tuners will only work if you're standing within ten feet of your local radio station's broadcast tower anyway ...

The ~$100 category is another story altogether. Players here have 1-2 hour play times, tops (64-128MB), are not upgradable, and are cheaply constructed. I can't comment on how well an iPod of any sort would do in this particular market segment because, frankly, I can't imagine wasting $100 on any of those products and so obviously have no insight whatsoever into the minds of those who do buy them.

~Shard~
Dec 22, 2003, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by tace
Too bad they didn't release these this month. I know of several friends who would have bought $150 ipods as gifts, but at $300 they are a bit too pricey for their function.

I agree, bad timing. Xmas is the busiest time of year, so releasing a new iPod like this that would appeal to the masses (i.e. having a lower price tag) would have been a huge hit before Xmas. Now, with everyone done spending money on gifts for the Xmas season, sales would be a lot lower on this product if it is indeed released.

Of course, if Apple is just in it for the money, then their philosophy might simply be, "Sell as many expensive iPods for the Xmas season as possible, to make as much money as possible, then release cheaper ones once everyone has already purchased one".

Stella
Dec 22, 2003, 03:07 PM
Hope this happens.

Apple have the high end Music player sorted out, now they need to make a similar impact in the cheapy end of the market.

OWNED!!!

Now, Apple need to keep on innovating the iPod and not become too arrogant.

When other Music Players start offering Video, Apple better be one of them, otherwise, the iPod will become apart of history, and therefore, iTMS, pointless.

jettredmont
Dec 22, 2003, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by dho
Hmmm interesting

if the use the recently rumored smaller hard drives, it will make for an interesting low end iPod.

I dont think steve will like the idea of having the low end ones being smaller, hmmm

im sure their is some sort of compromise.

My growing 500 mb itms collection will fit nicely on a 2gb model

The smaller (1" and sub-1") hard drives are significantly more expensive, not less.

Were Apple to make an iPod based on one of these, it would be moderately smaller, have significantly less space than the current models, and be more expensive.

If you don't need the size shrink (iPod is, IMHO, perfectly sized for a portable music device ... fits in a pocket and isn't completely subsumed in my hand), you shouldn't want to pay for it.

MetallicPenguin
Dec 22, 2003, 03:09 PM
Although the multiple color idea seems weird and I personally wouldn't like it (unless they included a plain white version too), the rumor matches the new commercials.

jettredmont
Dec 22, 2003, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by ~Shard~
I agree, bad timing. Xmas is the busiest time of year, so releasing a new iPod like this that would appeal to the masses (i.e. having a lower price tag) would have been a huge hit before Xmas. Now, with everyone done spending money on gifts for the Xmas season, sales would be a lot lower on this product if it is indeed released.

Of course, if Apple is just in it for the money, then their philosophy might simply be, "Sell as many expensive iPods for the Xmas season as possible, to make as much money as possible, then release cheaper ones once everyone has already purchased one".

On the other hand, maybe Apple is going after the "You got me this cheap piece of crap? Give me the receipt so I can return it and get an iPod!" crowd ...

Tommy Wasabi
Dec 22, 2003, 03:11 PM
My 2 cents is 2 cents so it's free.

The price will be $149 for 2G and $179 for 4G.

The real statement that should be made is - that's soooo small.

MazaGRANDEman
Dec 22, 2003, 03:14 PM
I have been waiting for a cheaper iPod with my friend for a while and I hope these new iPods will be right for me (and my friend). Now I have about 2.65gb of music on my iMac and the size is just increasing. I think the size of the 4 gb model isn't enough for me. Hope that Apple will lower 10gb model prices...

Man, I don't know about those coloured iPod things...I just love the white iPod:D

But well, Apple guys knows what they are doing. ;)

CmdrLaForge
Dec 22, 2003, 03:16 PM
A 2GB iPod for $150 would really rock. I guess it would be a very big seller. Even if its a little bit late for x-mas

Jerry Spoon
Dec 22, 2003, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by blueBomber
The only flaw I see in this prediction is the colors idea. Steve seems to be very over the idea of multiple fruity colors. Everything is very art deco right now. I just don't see it happening.

Those iPod print and commercial ads sport a variety of colors. Maybe that's what we're going to see.

pexe
Dec 22, 2003, 03:19 PM
awesome news.. cant wait till january

suzerain
Dec 22, 2003, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by totally_fly
I'm worried about the "variety of colours."

I would never buy a pink iPod.

i am just wondering...in which language does "variety" = "pink"?

dieselg4
Dec 22, 2003, 03:21 PM
Originally posted by Le Big Mac
How much smaller can you make it and retain a similar appearance? Sure, a bit thinner, and a bit more square (less below the buttons), but really you can't shrink it to the size of a wrist watch and retain both the LCD and decent sized buttons.
Of course it can get smaller. Look at how small the buttons on cell phones are these days, and they've got alot more on them. Maybe about the size of a Sony Ericcson t616 but a hair thinner? Could have 4 512MB flash cards in it and be 2GB.

Jerry Spoon
Dec 22, 2003, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by ~Shard~

Of course, if Apple is just in it for the money, then their philosophy might simply be, "Sell as many expensive iPods for the Xmas season as possible, to make as much money as possible, then release cheaper ones once everyone has already purchased one".

This is exactly what Apple's thinking. They just sold a 20 gb iPod to a guy who might have bought a 4 instead. Good for them.

Titian
Dec 22, 2003, 03:25 PM
I want instead a 80-100GB iPod with phone, panther, all i-softwares and a USB- and screen-connection.
Even if it would cost 400-500 $ it would be no problem for me.
I certainly left out something but at the moment I am more concentrated in filling up my list for Christmas...

revenuee
Dec 22, 2003, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by jettredmont
Why didn't you get the 10GB iPod, then? If you didn't care about the Dock, you could have gotten a 5GB iPod relatively cheap on ebay ...


i thought about Ebay, but my parents said i can get it as gift

was going to go 10 gig, but for the price of buying the remote and dock and carry case separately, i can get those, and double the storage.

the iPod + Belkin Card reader solution seems ideal for my cause ... currently i shoot with a 35 mm SLR ... but i wanna switch to Digital SLR ... i don't have a laptop to dumb the files to, and since i'm going away for 4 months, i can see myself easily filling up the 20 GIG with pictures when i dumb off the memory cards ... and as i see it ...

Note prices quoted in Canadian dollars

the iPod is 550 + 150 for the card reader, so thats 20 GIGS of picture storate for 700$ ... compare that too 400$ for 1 GIG of compact flash cards that are used in the Nikon D100 (camera i plan on getting) so that would cost about 8000$ for memory cards ...

a difference of 7300$ ... how much would your rather spend?

desdomg
Dec 22, 2003, 03:34 PM
Interesting circular reporting going on here.

AtAT posts the original rumour, which is then picked up by MacRumors. Appleinsider then quotes MacRumors as support for its own speculation on the subject. And now MacRumors quotes Appleinsider as further support for the rumour.

I am not saying it wont happen, but from a journalistic standpoint you guys are not very professional.

revenuee
Dec 22, 2003, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by desdomg
Interesting circular reporting going on here.

AtAT posts the original rumour, which is then picked up by MacRumors. Appleinsider then quotes MacRumors as support for its own speculation on the subject. And now MacRumors quotes Appleinsider as further support for the rumour.

I am not saying it wont happen, but from a journalistic standpoint you guys are not very professional.

It still sparks a conversation ... and thats what were all after ...

ITR 81
Dec 22, 2003, 03:41 PM
Retail analysts have said this yr. will be the yr of cheap MP3 players using Flash.

Next yr they have all said is the yr. the HD based MP3 player will dominate. Whomever takes on innovation and gives the consumer what they want will win overall in Christmas 04'.

I believe this is the whole idea Jobs kept the low cost iPods away until Jan. to make a killing next yr.

I believe the pricing will be around $149 for the lowend and $200 for highend.
I could see it topping out however with a 8 or 10GB at $250.

As for colour iPods? I think SJ is taken a model plan from Nokia here and will be using iSkin like shells to change the colour of the iPod. He probably will include atleast 4-5 colours when you buy the iPod and all the other colours or thems are sold separately. Before long you will see college logo and football logo based iPods and even those Hello Kitty themed iPods.

The next step in the 4gen iPod is to get more storage and more battery life out of it. Make more software apps that interact with it. Make it so much apart of the computer lifestyle it becomes as needed as a mouse or printer is today. They also need to incorporate a colour screen and allow viewing of colour photos and small videos. The cost would probably be around $750 but then again this is what the new Sony MP3 player/video player costs.

ccuilla
Dec 22, 2003, 03:41 PM
Colors?

What about the iPod ad campaign colors? Seems reasonable. Helps distinguish iPod Jr.s from iPod Sr. a bit.

Maybe even a "reverse" ad campaign with white background, black silloutte person...colored iPod. So Apple.


Storage?

Who cares what it is. HD? Flash? Someone once said (stupidly) "If it doesn't have a HD, it's not an iPod." No. If it's not an iPod, it's not an iPod. Making such a statement betrays obvious "geekness". Not one person buying an iPod cares what is inside it...other than the music they put on it.

Price?

2GB - $149
4GB - $199

Size?

Same.

backspinner
Dec 22, 2003, 03:42 PM
1. they want to sell as much expensive ones this christmas season as possible, that's why they introduce it in january
2. i don't think they will change the form factor already, but you never know
3. maybe they are only testing the colors, and will not sell them at all
4. maybe they omit all expensive features like the dock, recording, both usb and firewire, remote control, lock button
5. maybe they only use the lower cost USB technology and leave out the firewire for this one, after all 2GB is not that much to download over USB
6. maybe they are ready paying royalties to the people who invented the player chips
7. maybe they omit an expensive patented decoder and only provide their own
8. maybe they skip the scroll button, 2GB is not that much to scroll through by buttons
9. maybe it uses cheap replaceble batteries
10. maybe it's all plastic and no shiny but more expensive metal back anymore

blueBomber
Dec 22, 2003, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by desdomg

...I am not saying it wont happen, but from a journalistic standpoint you guys are not very professional.

The name of the site is macrumors. Playing the guessing game is why it's fun.

inkswamp
Dec 22, 2003, 03:46 PM
It seems Apple has learned its lesson about ignoring portions of the market. I think they don't intend to repeat the same mistake they made with the OS, allowing cheaper and less elegant alternatives to fill in the vacuum caused by more frugal elements of the market i.e., cheapskates like me. :D

This is certainly great news because already Dell, Wal-Mart and others are attempting to figure out how to undercut Apple with cheaper downloads and cheaper music players; it would only be a matter of time before the formidable iPod/iTMS combo is a pleasant memory and some other, second-best music store wannabe takes over. Bravo, Apple and Steve Jobs! If this rumor is true, it would mean they have taken the past in the form of a valuable lesson. I'd love nothing more than to see them stay on top of one of their own innovations instead of having to relegate it to yet another "Apple was there first" bragging rights item.

pivo6
Dec 22, 2003, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by desdomg
Interesting circular reporting going on here.

AtAT posts the original rumour, which is then picked up by MacRumors. Appleinsider then quotes MacRumors as support for its own speculation on the subject. And now MacRumors quotes Appleinsider as further support for the rumour.

I am not saying it wont happen, but from a journalistic standpoint you guys are not very professional.

I don't think anyone here claims to take the journalistic high ground (an oxymoron perhaps? ;) ) with regards to rumors, but your point is well taken. I noticed that as well. In the end, all that matters is whether the rumor is true or not.

We all would like to see lower price iPods. I know I would buy a 4GB one if the price is right, about $150 US. I can't see myself spending much more for one at this time.

gothamac
Dec 22, 2003, 03:49 PM
This is obviously geared for kids. It's a huge demographic and they have money to spend but most parents wouldn't approve of spending $499 for the next cool thing. Bring to market a slightly smaller, less expensive iPod in different colors, and every school kid will HAVE to have one.

paulc
Dec 22, 2003, 03:50 PM
Well, what makes sense to me if flash based really mini Pod for not more than 149.95. Probably built in Flash memory allowing for a higher end model (~200 bucks) that has a CF slot. Flash memory ties right into the whole digital hub ethos.

BUT I also think it REAL important that they stop the fsck being rooted in the past and just add wmp drm support. It's the ONLY way that they are going to be able to really keep marketshare; remember beta had marketshare over VHS back in the day... As usual, it was the idiots of the world that made the 6 hour VHS stomp all over 5 hour beta!

Gymnut
Dec 22, 2003, 03:51 PM
I wonder what if any comprimises other than the smaller hard drive will permit a price ranging from $150-$200 if not lower. I'm all for lower prices in general but I'm hoping the model itself remains unchanged despite the smaller HD.

JoeRadar
Dec 22, 2003, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by blueBomber
The only flaw I see in this prediction is the colors idea. Steve seems to be very over the idea of multiple fruity colors.
For a little extra cash, you can already get an iPod in a variety of colors. Check out ColorWare (http://www.colorwarepc.com/products/accessories.aspx) iPods. They can also paint your iBook and PowerBook.

ccuilla
Dec 22, 2003, 03:53 PM
And another thought...about timing...maybe this timing is PERFECT. Here's why:

1. Apple sells as many higher cost iPods as possible now.

2. In January, they intro iPod Jr. for $149, and all of the people that bought cheaper ($100-$200) MP3 players rush to BestBuy, CircuitCity and CompUSA to return them and buy iPod Jr.

Just thinking out loud here.

blueBomber
Dec 22, 2003, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by JoeRadar
For a little extra cash, you can already get an iPod in a variety of colors. Check out ColorWare (http://www.colorwarepc.com/products/accessories.aspx) iPods. They can also paint your iBook and PowerBook.
yes, but this is an aftermarket customization. My point is that Apple themselves doesn't seem too interested in going back to brightly colored plastic; they're currently in a very machined and streamlined frame of mind.

gothamac
Dec 22, 2003, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by ccuilla
And another thought...about timing...maybe this timing is PERFECT. Here's why:

1. Apple sells as many higher cost iPods as possible now.

2. In January, they intro iPod Jr. for $149, and all of the people that bought cheaper ($100-$200) MP3 players rush to BestBuy, CircuitCity and CompUSA to return them and buy iPod Jr.

Just thinking out loud here.

You mean received, and it's a great point. Apple should do a commercial encouraging
people to return their Dells.

gwuMACaddict
Dec 22, 2003, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by blueBomber
yes, but this is an aftermarket customization. My point is that Apple themselves doesn't seem too interested in going back to brightly colored plastic; they're currently in a very machined and streamlined frame of mind.


i agree... i dont think i like this idea at all... and honestly, how many people really have music collections this small? i dont know anyone that has less than 4 gigs of music... i'd rather see them keep the same sizes, but make them cheaper.

JoeRadar
Dec 22, 2003, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by centauratlas
This is a good thing, expanding market share is a positive. Better to grab that segment than abandon it to someone else.
Right now Apple claims that iTMS is not profitable, but it does help drive the profitable iPods.

My guess is that over time this will change. And by getting customers to buy large number of songs from iTMS, which supports Apple's digital rights management controlled through Apple, it locks people into Apple products.

I have purchased about $200 in songs from iTMS (more than I have probably spent on music CDs in the past decade), so there is no way I am going to switch to a new jukebox software (iTunes) and appliance (iPod) and walk away from my $200 investment.

iPod and iTMS are the two hostest items in the music industry right now, and Apple has the opportunity it has not had in about two decades -- secure a large marketshare that is locked in to their product line. Go Apple!

revenuee
Dec 22, 2003, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by gwuMACaddict
i agree... i dont think i like this idea at all... and honestly, how many people really have music collections this small? i dont know anyone that has less than 4 gigs of music... i'd rather see them keep the same sizes, but make them cheaper.

as i've mentioned a few times in this thread i have less then 1 gig collected over 4 years :)

gothamac
Dec 22, 2003, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by blueBomber
yes, but this is an aftermarket customization. My point is that Apple themselves doesn't seem too interested in going back to brightly colored plastic; they're currently in a very machined and streamlined frame of mind.

I don't see Apple going back to the all colorful days of the late 90's. But the "all white" thing has also been played. The new color commercials are a refreshing change, and I believe it will transfer over to the iPod.
I don't think we need to worry about seeing a bondi blue G5 Tower.

blueBomber
Dec 22, 2003, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by gothamac

I don't think we need to worry about seeing a bondi blue G5 Tower.

I sure hope so. I actually cheered when Steve showed the G5 for the first time. Finally, the death of plastic in the pro line!

ccuilla
Dec 22, 2003, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by gwuMACaddict
honestly, how many people really have music collections this small? i dont know anyone that has less than 4 gigs of music... i'd rather see them keep the same sizes, but make them cheaper.

Well, if they do and want to carry their whole collection with them...buy a 10GB HD.

If they don't want to spend $300, assuming Apple does do an iPod Jr. ($149), then they'll have to live with only 20-40 hours of music in their pocket. Darn.

20 hours is plenty of music to get you through the bus stop, the bus ride, school, study hall, lunch, after school bus ride and home. (Oh, Apple needs to up the battery life.)

Trade-offs. It's life.

iomar
Dec 22, 2003, 04:09 PM
Wow, finally an iPod that I might be able to afford to buy!

totally_fly
Dec 22, 2003, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by suzerain - language barrier
i am just wondering...in which language does "variety" = "pink"?
Why would you wonder that? I think you're on the wrong side of the language barrier.

ITR 81
Dec 22, 2003, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by blueBomber
yes, but this is an aftermarket customization. My point is that Apple themselves doesn't seem too interested in going back to brightly colored plastic; they're currently in a very machined and streamlined frame of mind.

Actually this not a real aftermarket since they are Apple Reseller and Apple knows they colour their iPods and sell them as new.
You heard me right you can buy one direct from colorware thats brandnew and in a colour you want.

macFanDave
Dec 22, 2003, 04:13 PM
One thing that is different between iTMS/iPod and everybody else is the AAC format with FairPlay DRM.

At this stage of the game, if Apple can gain mindshare by selling zillions of songs in this format, it might be worth it to sell "mini-iPods" at very slim margins to promote AAC.

I am not interested in spending 300 dollars to have a 10GB hard drive. I don't need to have my music with me all the time even though I could since I spend almost all of my music-listening time at home, at the office or in my car and at each one I have several existing choices for listening. I also can't get one for my daughter (even though I have given her a 32MB Rio ($37) and we're both frustrated by its lack of capacity and its reliability), because that's too expensive for such a young child (a demographic not known for going gentle on consumer electronics.)

A 2GB iPod for, say, $99 may give me an opportunity to learn new habits where I may need a new high-end iPod next time. I've always though the digital camera companies should have a super-cheap model (which is actually pretty good and sold at cost) to get people hooked into digital photography and let them trade up to the fancier models if they like it.

One thing we need to realize is that AAC is an open format, so Apple stands to make nothing if others adopt it (Microsoft, on the other hand, gets a cut of every WMA-formatted song sold by everyone else), but maybe they could get a little something for the FairPlay DRM.

PS: The first mini-iPod I'd buy might be the pink one, if my daughter wants it and is a real good girl!

Stella
Dec 22, 2003, 04:14 PM
You are thinking too narrow.. (more past the quote)

Originally posted by gwuMACaddict
i agree... i dont think i like this idea at all... and honestly, how many people really have music collections this small? i dont know anyone that has less than 4 gigs of music... i'd rather see them keep the same sizes, but make them cheaper.

You don't have to put your entire music collection on to your iPod.

Think about those people who go out and buy 256MB flash ram based MP3 players... do you seriously think they have only 256MB of music? Of course not, they only transfer what they want to listen to... slowly (USB 1).

In the article it says the jnr iPods will be restrictive. Hopefully they will still sport Firewire connection. Don't care that they may not contain the full software such as the games and stuff.

The cheapy iPods may even have a reduced screen size etc. That will certainly keep the price down.

Why do they buy only these players - they don't see the point in spending too much money, or they can't afford it.

Its a Good Thing that apple may be targeting the cheap side of the Market.

JoeRadar
Dec 22, 2003, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by gwuMACaddict
how many people really have music collections this small? i dont know anyone that has less than 4 gigs of music...
:D Quick back of the envelope calculation based on my purchases. 4 gigs represent almost $1000 in legal music. Kids these days... ;)

Maybe iTunes and iPod already support this, but if it doesn't I would prefer better nesting control of playlists (i.e., hierarchical folders). Then you could have much more than 4 gigs of songs in iTunes, but make it easy to move 4 gigs of songs on and off the iPod.

(PS. I don't like the checking of individual playlists. I would prefer lists of playlists).

blueBomber
Dec 22, 2003, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by ITR 81
Actually this not a real aftermarket since they are Apple Reseller and Apple knows they colour their iPods and sell them as new.
You heard me right you can buy one direct from colorware thats brandnew and in a colour you want.

Do you work for this company or something? What's up with the testimonial? I've seen their work up close and it's really good, but I still don't want a painted ipod.

dongmin
Dec 22, 2003, 04:20 PM
color
Apple won't be repeating the fruity iMac type colors. Instead, expect something like White, Black, Champagne, Silver, etc. like the Canon SD10.

where they can save money
-An all-plastic body, instead of the metal back
-cheaper battery (hopefully not)
-no back lighting
-cheaper HDD (not sure from where)
-integrated controller for firewire, HD, battery, display, etc.
-mass mass production
-smaller profit margin

price
The reason they didn't introduce the cheaper ipods this season is b/c the current ipods are flying off the shelves anyways. Why cut into their sales?

New prices:
$149 - 2GB
$199 - 4GB
$269 - 10GB
$349 - 20GB
$449 - 40GB

flash vs. hdd vs. hdd
Flash media in the 1GB - 2GB range are expensive--$200-300. It'd be cheaper to put-in a 5GB HDD, unless Apple wants to go super small. The 2GB and 4GB these rumors are quoting come from recent reports of Hitachi and Toshiba producing 1" HDDs in those capacities. No word yet on how much the 1" drives cost. They could be cheaper if Apple ordered some massive quantities of these.

JoeRadar
Dec 22, 2003, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by macFanDave
One thing we need to realize is that AAC is an open format, so Apple stands to make nothing if others adopt it
How does that fit in with the "authorizing' and "deauthorizing" of a computer?

Suppose Napster supports AAC. Can I switch to Napster's jukebox software and keep all my songs purchased from iTMS in the Napster software?

ccuilla
Dec 22, 2003, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by macFanDave
At this stage of the game, if Apple can gain mindshare by selling zillions of songs in this format, it might be worth it to sell "mini-iPods" at very slim margins to promote AAC.

This would be exactly the reason to do iPod Jr.

Killing off the meme that is WMA (which, BTW, is exactly the reason they will NOT support WMA on iPod...yet.)

If Apple does this (iPod Jr.) They have a real chance of killing WMA.

Sayhey
Dec 22, 2003, 04:26 PM
It is about time Apple jumped in and produced a low-end, quality product instead of abandoning that segment of the market to others. I would like to see some attention paid to innovative products for those of us who can't afford the $499 version.

coolbreeze
Dec 22, 2003, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by totally_fly
I'm worried about the "variety of colours."

I would never buy a pink iPod.
You wouldn't, but she would!

SiliconAddict
Dec 22, 2003, 04:28 PM
Great.......Price point?!?!

Without a highly competitive price, 2GB and 4GB iPods don't mean jack squat. I want to beleve that Apple is going to release a competitvly priced product. I really do but in the back of my mind I have a little voice going. Joooooobs is goooooooinnnnnnng to get greeeeeeeedy.

Hawthorne
Dec 22, 2003, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by ccuilla
And another thought...about timing...maybe this timing is PERFECT. Here's why:

1. Apple sells as many higher cost iPods as possible now.

2. In January, they intro iPod Jr. for $149, and all of the people that bought cheaper ($100-$200) MP3 players rush to BestBuy, CircuitCity and CompUSA to return them and buy iPod Jr.

Just thinking out loud here.

3. In February, Apple and Pepsi kickoff (pun intended) the great Tunes Music Store Song Giveaway contest. 100 million songs are going to be downloaded from iTMS, and all those people are going to need something to play them on.

While the timing is bad for Christmas, it's perfect for the Superbowl ads.

JoeRadar
Dec 22, 2003, 04:31 PM
Wow! great summary dongmin. I think you hit the nail(s) on the head. I just want to amplify two points:
Originally posted by dongmin
-mass mass production
-smaller profit margin

First, Apple is in the unusual position of being the market leader, and this means that Apple, more than anyone else, can benefit from economies of scale.

Second, if Apple's iTMS will be profitable in the future, then accepting lower profit margins on iPods today to increase the customer base of iTMS tomorrow makes sense.

PS. I still haven't figured out the possible issue of locking in customers with iPod, iTunes, iTMS, and AAC despite AAC being an open standard. How portable will a song purchased from iTMS be to other jukebox software?

dho
Dec 22, 2003, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by JoeRadar
How does that fit in with the "authorizing' and "deauthorizing" of a computer?

Suppose Napster supports AAC. Can I switch to Napster's jukebox software and keep all my songs purchased from iTMS in the Napster software?

Once you can decode it with your account and password its an open codec :). All the encryption does is scramble some of the bits to make it sound bad when you try to bypass it. About the napster part of your question, yes you could if apple let you know how they work the drm ellement.

ITR 81
Dec 22, 2003, 04:32 PM
Originally posted by gwuMACaddict
i agree... i dont think i like this idea at all... and honestly, how many people really have music collections this small? i dont know anyone that has less than 4 gigs of music... i'd rather see them keep the same sizes, but make them cheaper.

I know alot of kids with less then a 1 GB of music.

People in this area are happy to have a couple hrs of music on them then 40hrs or more.

blueBomber
Dec 22, 2003, 04:32 PM
I say they will come in at $199. It's the next logical step down in Apple's pricing scheme, and it would still allow for a fairly good profit.

ccuilla
Dec 22, 2003, 04:33 PM
Originally posted by SiliconAddict
I want to beleve that Apple is going to release a competitvly priced product.

Apple is already selling a competitively priced product. They just are not selling one that is currently priced in the low range.

For everyone that says iPod is too expensive...pop (errr...Pod) quiz:

How much less capacity do the cheaper MP3 players have than Apple's 10GB iPod (at $300)?

Answer: about 1/40th!

Get 1/40th the capacity of the iPod for 1/2 the price! Great slogan.

Still, I agree that Apple needs to find some way to address the segment of the market that simply doesn't HAVE $300.

arn
Dec 22, 2003, 04:34 PM
Originally posted by desdomg
Interesting circular reporting going on here.

AtAT posts the original rumour, which is then picked up by MacRumors. Appleinsider then quotes MacRumors as support for its own speculation on the subject. And now MacRumors quotes Appleinsider as further support for the rumour.


Actually,

You are not reading it correctly.

There is a difference between "rumors" and "speculation". You seem to think Appleinsider is just "speculating" (ie, guessing) about it and using MacRumors as support.

It's not as inbred as you suggest. Here are the distinct and independent "rumors"

1) MacRumors reports that there is a 2GB mini iPod making the rounds link (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/12/20031215023902.shtml)
2) AtAT reports that they've heard that low-end iPods at MWSF link (http://www.appleturns.com/scene/?id=4381)
3) Appleinsider reports that they have heard of 2GB and 4GB iPods in Jan link (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=329)

These are all distinct "reports". None are pure speculation. Referencing the other reports is simply for reference/filler.

Obviously if some random Joe writes... "I think there are going to be low end iPods at MWSF because MacRumors said so." then I'm not going to reference them as confirmation of the rumor.

Do you see the difference?

arn

dho
Dec 22, 2003, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by blueBomber
I say they will come in at $199. It's the next logical step down in Apple's pricing scheme, and it would still allow for a fairly good profit.

If they wanted it to not have some sort of seperation from the current models, that would be a very good idea.

From what the rumors says it seems more likely that they would want to differentiate the two kinds of ipods more.

149
99

^ would fit well for that scenario

ITR 81
Dec 22, 2003, 04:37 PM
The only way AAC will work on another device that supports AAC is in it's unprotected format.

I have recently just start importing under AAC at 160kbps and it simply beats the hell out of MP3's at 160kps.

I can't even tell the difference even on a high quality THX sound sys.

ccuilla
Dec 22, 2003, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by JoeRadar
Second, if Apple's iTMS will be profitable in the future, then accepting lower profit margins on iPods today to increase the customer base of iTMS tomorrow makes sense.

Bzzzt! Wrong answer, but thanks for playing. I doubt Apple will ever make any real money from the iTMS. They hope to have it pay for itself (break even) which they are roughly doing now. So it is not costing them anything. But let's play some games here...Apple is somehow able to get 50 cents PROFIT from every song sold on the iTMS. They sell 100 millions songs a year. This is $50M profit a year. Not bad.

But that is ASSUMING they can squeeze 50 cents profit from every song. Seem VERY unlikely to happen.

Apple sells 2 million iPods a year with an average profit margin of $100. That's $200M profit.

Apple is giving away the blades to sell the razors. This is important for anyone to understand, lest we suggest they begin giving away the razors too.

mclosers
Dec 22, 2003, 04:41 PM
Imagine it now... During the super bowl. Mini Me(Verne Troyer) and Yao Ming( tallest player in the NBA) walk down the street Yao with the now iPod JR(or whatever it will be called) and Verne with the iPod. Then they break out dancing and singing to the song on there iPods.... It would be a classic Yao and Verne singing together

gothamac
Dec 22, 2003, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by arn
Actually,

You are not reading it correctly.

There is a difference between "rumors" and "speculation". You seem to think Appleinsider is just "speculating" (ie, guessing) about it and using MacRumors as support.

It's not as inbred as you suggest. Here are the distinct and independent "rumors"

1) MacRumors reports that there is a 2GB mini iPod making the rounds
2) AtAT reports that they've heard that low-end iPods at MWSF
3) Appleinsider reports that they have heard of 2GB and 4GB iPods in Jan

These are all distinct "reports". None are pure speculation. Referencing the other reports is simply for reference/filler.

arn

...or you can do things the Macosrumors way. Post once every week or two the news everybody else has been talking about the previous week (or two) then beg for money.

gothamac
Dec 22, 2003, 04:46 PM
miniPod

skytown205
Dec 22, 2003, 04:47 PM
Better than varieties of colors in plastic would be varieties of colors in backlighting, user-selectable from among the ipod commercial/website colors to fit one's particular mood, and with the ability, perhaps, to cycle through on its own.

But colored plastic? Ives wouldn't put his stamp on that one I think.

Of course I could be wrong.

ccuilla
Dec 22, 2003, 05:01 PM
I've been thinking about the colors a bit (and the "white look"). White is likely to go away soon. Apple is a very fashion concious company. The colors this time around are likely to be deeper, not fruity. See the iPod ads as the likely palette to be used.

Better yet, I like the idea (someone already mentioned) of replaceable faceplates (a la Nokia phones). This is a great idea! Talk about turning a device into a "movement". The thing will be how you have customized YOUR iPod. Will it be a Green Bay Packers face plate? Flat black? Paisley? Hello Kitty? Whatever. This will really get people emotionally attached to their iPods. Now...try getting emotionally attached to a Dell DJ.

technocoy
Dec 22, 2003, 05:02 PM
I'm worried about the "variety of colours."

I would never buy a pink iPod.

these replies baffle me.

alright then, so don't buy a pink iPod.
but there are millions of girls who will.

apple doesn't make the iPod just for you.

no offense.;)

ccuilla
Dec 22, 2003, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by technocoy
apple doesn't make the iPod just for you.

So "amen" to that I couldn't post it fast enough!

revenuee
Dec 22, 2003, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by technocoy
these replies baffle me.

alright then, so don't buy a pink iPod.
but there are millions of girls who will.

apple doesn't make the iPod just for you.

no offense.;)

True that...


I'm curious though the iPod is white ... does the white turn yellow like so many of the white electronics of the past

ccuilla
Dec 22, 2003, 05:13 PM
I just had a thought. Does anyone recall the patent Apple filed that had something to do with the changing the color of the exterior covering a computer device?

What if this comes on the new iPod Jr.?

Color changes on demand? With music? Something crazy like that?

blueBomber
Dec 22, 2003, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by ccuilla
Color changes on demand? With music? Something crazy like that?

Now THAT is how you speculate! I think that is about as far fetched as they come. :D

Makosuke
Dec 22, 2003, 05:17 PM
I'm glad someone pointed out the possible tie-in with the Pepsi promotion, but I'm surprised nobody else is guessing at another possible reason mini-iPods aren't on sale for Christmas:

They aren't ready yet!

I'm sure there are plenty of people here just not saying it, but apparently a lot of folks seem to think that Apple can produce perfect products at will. Reality, unfortunately, requires things like development time and testing, ramping up production lines, having the correct parts available from suppliers, component prices reaching the point at which they can be sold at an appropriate price point, and being able to meet potentially considerable demand (instead of pre-announcing something that isn't shipping in quantity).

My guess is something like this: They're still working out the details, and the smaller HDs aren't ready yet, but they'll make great MWSF fodder, and tie in perfectly with the Pepsi thing, perhaps as a chunk of the prizes.

Also, I'm very skeptical about them using the recently discussed micro-HD technology--everything I'm seeing about that puts it as not being ready until late next year (not that Apple couldn't swing something special with Toshiba) and as being very expensive, hence more targeted at high-end cellphones.

What seems a lot more likely is just a cheaper, lower-capacity 1.8" HD--maybe one or both sides of a 4GB platter for 2 and 4GB versions or something. The form factor might be similar to the current ones, but if they can manage this at a good price point--I love the $100 idea, but I'd be happy with $150, and even that sounds like it'd be a stretch--by cutting corners (no external HD use, for example), and differentiate it with fun colors, then it could happen.

Personally, I'm hoping for this--I only have about 3GB of music, and even 2GB is plenty for me--do I seriously need more than 30 hours of tunes in my pocket? No. Even a plane trip to Tokyo is under 20 hours, and I seem to make due with 5 hours of CDs at this point.

At $100, I'd even be able to justify the purchase, whereas $300 is just too much for me to reason, since I don't commute or jog much.

Last thought: It'd be just like Apple to introduce colors to electronics, then kill them, then resurrect them again.

By the way--how about colored meta instead of plasticl? Apple apparently did research into it a while ago...

ccuilla
Dec 22, 2003, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by blueBomber
Now THAT is how you speculate! I think that is about as far fetched as they come. :D

Thank you. Thank you. [humbly bows before the audience]

blueBomber
Dec 22, 2003, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by revenuee
True that...


I'm curious though the iPod is white ... does the white turn yellow like so many of the white electronics of the past
It shouldn't, I believe it's the same plastic that was used in the G4 casing, and I've yet to see a yellowed G4 (unless somebody smokes like a fiend around it). But since the ipod comes into contact with skin oils and dirt fairly regularly, that may cause it to... I just don't know...:confused:

ITR 81
Dec 22, 2003, 05:26 PM
Originally posted by revenuee
True that...


I'm curious though the iPod is white ... does the white turn yellow like so many of the white electronics of the past

I've seen older iPods and they look as white my 4 month old iPod. The discoloration comes from having it out in the direct sun light all the time and tobacco smoke. Well this is what effected many SW action figures of mine.

requies
Dec 22, 2003, 05:26 PM
Originally posted by gwuMACaddict
i agree... i dont think i like this idea at all... and honestly, how many people really have music collections this small? i dont know anyone that has less than 4 gigs of music... i'd rather see them keep the same sizes, but make them cheaper.


many people i know don't have ANY music on their computers. that would be a target market for a smaller capacity ipod. not you and your friends.

daddy-mojo
Dec 22, 2003, 05:34 PM
Originally posted by totally_fly
I'm worried about the "variety of colours."

I would never buy a pink iPod.

My wife sure would!

daddy-mojo
Dec 22, 2003, 05:38 PM
Originally posted by requies
many people i know don't have ANY music on their computers. that would be a target market for a smaller capacity ipod. not you and your friends.

It doesn't matter what size your collection is, just about how much you want to take with you at a time. I have 25 gigs worth, and I don't even fill up my 5gb ipod. I load on what ever I feel like at the time, and usually never get to listen a third of it before I start swapping out music. Just means more updating then bringing your whole collection wherever you go. Nothing wrong with that. I think a small inexpensive colored option will appeal to a much larger market then some of you realize.

GregA
Dec 22, 2003, 05:38 PM
Originally posted by ~Shard~
bad timing. Xmas is the busiest time of year, so releasing a new iPod like this that would appeal to the masses (i.e. having a lower price tag) would have been a huge hit before Xmas.It would look terrible if Apple released the cheap iPods and then had a backlog - so people got delivery too late for Christmas!

Much better to start after Christmas with low demand and allow a steady increase than get hit with bad publicity.

Hey I noticed the new Nokia phones will play MP3s and AAC. Wonder if Apple will support them... sync songs, contacts, calendars.

JoeRadar
Dec 22, 2003, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by ccuilla
Bzzzt! Wrong answer, but thanks for playing.
To volly back :D
First, the "profitablity" of iTMS is difficult to measure because it is easy to use "movie studio" accounting rules. But, if as you say iTMS tops out at 100 million songs a year, then Apple will have reached its maximum output within one year, and it will not need much money in the future for new infrastructure. That makes future songs much more profitable to Apple.

Second, you assume Apple will stop at selling songs, but there is much more digital content they can sell, including (1) music videos, (2) television episodes (missed CSI last night?, buy it for $3.99 from Apple), (3) short movies, (4) eventually full movies (as bandwidth increases).

Third, you assume iPods will continue their high profit margins. Right now there are a good dozen or more hard disk-based music players on the market, and this will put profit margin pressure on the iPod. Sure, most look ugly (except the Rio Karma (http://www.digitalnetworksna.com/shop/_templates/item_main_Rio.asp?model=220&cat=53)), but eventually some will go to places like Frog Design (http://www.frogdesign.com/) to get some Apple-like coolness.

geerlingguy
Dec 22, 2003, 05:39 PM
Here's what I say it'll look like...
;)

Hopefully, no.

Anyway, I hope they have something like $99, $149 for 2GB, 4GB -- then $249, $299, $349 for 10, 20, 40 GB. YEAH! :D

daedelgt
Dec 22, 2003, 05:47 PM
This is in response to Makosuke.

The external HD functionality will never go away. If it had to for some reason that would mean an entirely different way of transferring the music.

requies
Dec 22, 2003, 05:47 PM
Originally posted by revenuee
True that...


I'm curious though the iPod is white ... does the white turn yellow like so many of the white electronics of the past



as the proud owner of an original 5GB ipod, i can attest that they do not discolor over time.

Skull Leader
Dec 22, 2003, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by ccuilla
Better yet, I like the idea (someone already mentioned) of replaceable faceplates (a la Nokia phones).

Yeah, a furry one would make a good iPet. (nice Kitty)

JoeRadar
Dec 22, 2003, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by ccuilla
Will it be a Green Bay Packers face plate?
There you go! But take it farther by tying it into promotional efforts. Imagine the Green Bay Packers selling an iPod, preloaded with radio broadcasts of every Packer game for the last 10 years.

Or the Sooners alumni association selling iPods with the OU logos and loaded with broadcasts of OU games.

Enroll in the expensive NPR membership, and get an "I support NPR" iPod fully loaded with all the Terry Gross (sp?) interviews.

Or a Star Wars iPod preloaded with all the audio of the Star Wars movies, the Star Wars radio drama broadcasts, and all the various Star Wars audio books.

Or a Lord of the Rings iPod with the unabridged readings of the Silmarillion, Hobbit, and Lord of the Rings.

OK. I am ready to buy my 2nd and 3rd iPods now!

brandon6684
Dec 22, 2003, 05:54 PM
I would definitely get a 2GB iPod for around $150. I can't afford $300 for a music player. I almost get some little flash player for $100, but the thing had an appallingly small amount of storage space and it wouldn't play my AAC encoded files any way, and I don't want to have to re-rip all of my CDs.

requies
Dec 22, 2003, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by daddy-mojo
It doesn't matter what size your collection is, just about how much you want to take with you at a time. I have 25 gigs worth, and I don't even fill up my 5gb ipod. I load on what ever I feel like at the time, and usually never get to listen a third of it before I start swapping out music. Just means more updating then bringing your whole collection wherever you go. Nothing wrong with that. I think a small inexpensive colored option will appeal to a much larger market then some of you realize.


if using your ipod in that way floats your boat, good for you. i was merely pointing out that the market of individuals with music collections less than 4GB is vast.

ITR 81
Dec 22, 2003, 06:00 PM
I doubt it will stop a just faceplates either.
I could see different colour backlights going into effect, different colour backlight buttons, and software so you can customize your start up logos as well.

Wonder Boy
Dec 22, 2003, 06:04 PM
why would anyone want to by a low end 10 giger when they can by a 2 for 3/4 of the price?

GOODBYE PROFIT!

ITR 81
Dec 22, 2003, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by JoeRadar
There you go! But take it farther by tying it into promotional efforts. Imagine the Green Bay Packers selling an iPod, preloaded with radio broadcasts of every Packer game for the last 10 years.

Or the Sooners alumni association selling iPods with the OU logos and loaded with broadcasts of OU games.

Enroll in the expensive NPR membership, and get an "I support NPR" iPod fully loaded with all the Terry Gross (sp?) interviews.

Or a Star Wars iPod preloaded with all the audio of the Star Wars movies, the Star Wars radio drama broadcasts, and all the various Star Wars audio books.

Or a Lord of the Rings iPod with the unabridged readings of the Silmarillion, Hobbit, and Lord of the Rings.

OK. I am ready to buy my 2nd and 3rd iPods now!

Yep, before long you would see Offical College Team iPods being sold through college book stores all across the US.
Or sell video enabled iPod that showed highlights from all best games in the last yr or last 10 yrs!!??
If they came out with one those for my college team I would buy one in heartbeat even if I didn't need another iPod.

*iPod insanity continues as Steve Jobs announces solid state iPods and hologram and colour changing shell covers*

~Shard~
Dec 22, 2003, 06:08 PM
Originally posted by jettredmont
On the other hand, maybe Apple is going after the "You got me this cheap piece of crap? Give me the receipt so I can return it and get an iPod!" crowd ...

Yah, but if Apple made it, I doubt it would be a cheap piece of crap - just cheap cost-wise. ;)

ITR 81
Dec 22, 2003, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by Wonder Boy
why would anyone want to by a low end 10 giger when they can by a 2 for 3/4 of the price?

GOODBYE PROFIT!

About 50% of the buying public would go iPod if they were cheaper.

At $149 bucks a student could buy one after saving for about a month.

revenuee
Dec 22, 2003, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by Wonder Boy
why would anyone want to by a low end 10 giger when they can by a 2 for 3/4 of the price?

GOODBYE PROFIT!

Some people truly do want to have all their music in their pocket

I have several friends that took every CD they own ... converted to MP3, organized it all into Playlists, and put all their music onto the iPod, then just put their CD's into a box and took them down to basement/attic for storage.

If they want to listen to a particular song/Band/ type of music on their stereo they just wire it through the AV and problem solved.

Stella
Dec 22, 2003, 06:12 PM
That is very easy to answer:

Because the person doesn't have the desire to spend $$$ on a music player.

A lot of my friends like the iPod, but will NOT spend $650 on a music player. Some would, however spend, say $299.

Other people have more important things to spend their money on, besides spending the equilvent of half their rent on a music player.





Originally posted by Wonder Boy
why would anyone want to by a low end 10 giger when they can by a 2 for 3/4 of the price?

GOODBYE PROFIT!

~Shard~
Dec 22, 2003, 06:28 PM
Originally posted by revenuee
Some people truly do want to have all their music in their pocket

I have several friends that took every CD they own ... converted to MP3, organized it all into Playlists, and put all their music onto the iPod, then just put their CD's into a box and took them down to basement/attic for storage.

If they want to listen to a particular song/Band/ type of music on their stereo they just wire it through the AV and problem solved.

I agree with this, there are always going to be people who need different amounts of space, whether it be 2 GB, 10 GB or 40 GB. Hell, because I'm a freak, I'd need about a 180 GB iPod to store all my music as MP3s, since I have so many audio CDs and a plethora of MP3s on my FTP server. :cool:

uberman42
Dec 22, 2003, 06:35 PM
gawd. people are writing in as if this already happened. Apple wouldn't release this before x-mas because they are making pretty good margin on the existing models. why divert sales of the larger models. A 5 GB @ $179 sounds feasible.

unsigned
Dec 22, 2003, 06:37 PM
Just from reading this thread, you've all accidentally described something that sounds more probable.

If apple releases a cheaper iPod, it may have a smaller capacity, but it will defintiely be larger. In consumer electronics, smaller = more expensive, larger = cheaper. There isn't one example where the converse is true. Think camcorders or digital cameras. You always pay a premium for size.

If apple releases a "budget" iPod, it would have to be -less sexy- than the deluxe model. Less sexy = bigger.

How can we get it cheaper? When size is less of a factor, the answer becomes obvious: the new ipod would be .7" bigger because it would use a 2.5" notebook hard drive. The price differences even on single units is tremendous.

On pricewatch, a 2.2gb IBM microdrive (a 1" Hard Drive, probably what toshiba is making) goes for $192. You're paying a huge premium for the smaller size.

A toshiba 6.0 GB 2.5" drive goes for $68.

Now:

When the original iPod came out with 5 gb @ $399, you could buy that same 5.0 gb 1.8" drive in a firewire enclosure but without the mp3 playing guts for $299. So, we could say apple is adding on $100 for the mp3 guts and screen.

Nowadays you can get an external firewire/usb enclosure for 2.5" hard drives for around $20.

So, that's maybe $89 for a 2.5" drive and controller - street prices!

So, being generous to apple's margins, let's give them the $100 for their mp3 playing guts (and probably, some nice profit margin) and we're still at only $189 for an mp3 playing, white-and-aluminum clad, slightly (only .7") larger budget ipod.

Now, that's _street prices_, and that allows for as much profit margin as the original iPod!

What happens when you factor in volume costs? This is certainly intended to be a high volume product - probably more so than the current ipod. Apple has already extended, with the 3g ipods, their profit margins on the non-drive guts of the machine - essentially selling for $299 what they originally sold for $399. So they are making the mp3-playing guts better and for less money.

Anyway, for final prediction -we have to account for things like marketability and availability of parts - if apple does market a larger, clumsier, cheaper iPod, the line-up would be something like:

$199 10gb HuskyPod
-looks just like 3g ipod, only bigger (think 14" ibook). No backlight on the buttons, no dock, no case, no remote.

$299 15gb 3g iPod
- replaces 10gb, otherwise no change

$399 30gb 3.5g iPod
- maybe color screen ala GBA, or other extras. no video yet.

$499 60gb 3.5g ipod
- maybe color screen, etc.

And that's your level-headed, non-pie-in-the-sky forecast for a way into a cheaper ipod.

ethernet76
Dec 22, 2003, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by ITR 81
About 50% of the buying public would go iPod if they were cheaper.

At $149 bucks a student could buy one after saving for about a month.

the problem though is over 50% of the market isn't buying.

also, i'm a student. i don't make large purchases for frivilous things - new tv, xbox, mp3 players. here's what college students don't do: save money. My version of saving is, saving wanting one until my birthday or christmas comes around.

As for the faceplate idea. Apple doesn't do interchangable, they've had countless chances since the original iMac. The economics are a bitch for the 100 different faceplates you could have. College bookstores aren't buying because they can't jack the price up 50 dollars like they do books. Think more difference between a Powermac and iMac, or Powerbook and iBook.

The key for the iPod to remain dominant is hitting the lower-end market, and making them available to purchase everywhere - Wal-mart, K-Mark, Meijer. Places where people shop often.

~Shard~
Dec 22, 2003, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by desdomg
from a journalistic standpoint you guys are not very professional.

Um, this site is called "MacRumors" not "Mac100%GauranteedProfessionalNewsBroughtToYouByHardenedProfessionalsWorkingAtCNN". All these rumors and the resulting discussions are what makes everything enjoyable. :cool:

revenuee
Dec 22, 2003, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by ~Shard~
All these rumors and the resulting discussions are what makes everything enjoyable. :cool:


If it was 100% then there wouldn't be much to discuss :)

centauratlas
Dec 22, 2003, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by totally_fly
I would never buy a pink iPod.

But a 12 year old girl would. :-)

DarkPhoenixCA
Dec 22, 2003, 07:18 PM
Just a bit off topic...

But has anyone else wondered why Apple hasn't released FireWire 800 cables for the 3G iPods? I've got this FW 800 on my PowerBook that has gone unused. I thought the purpose of the 30-pin dock connector was to be able to connect to FW and USB, and I was hoping for FW 800.

rdowns
Dec 22, 2003, 07:24 PM
Originally posted by ccuilla
And another thought...about timing...maybe this timing is PERFECT. Here's why:

1. Apple sells as many higher cost iPods as possible now.

2. In January, they intro iPod Jr. for $149, and all of the people that bought cheaper ($100-$200) MP3 players rush to BestBuy, CircuitCity and CompUSA to return them and buy iPod Jr.

Just thinking out loud here.

With the teens in my family, cash is king when it comes to gifts. Lots of kids with holiday cash to spend in January.

revenuee
Dec 22, 2003, 07:59 PM
Originally posted by rdowns
With the teens in my family, cash is king when it comes to gifts. Lots of kids with holiday cash to spend in January.

Now there is an angle we haven't considered.

Ja Di ksw
Dec 22, 2003, 08:14 PM
I don't see why it has to be smaller, the iPod is plenty small, as long as it just costs less. Why do people seem to think they need to make it smaller? If they go any smaller, the buttons will be too small, and the screen is a great size. It needs to be cheaper, not smaller

winmacguy
Dec 22, 2003, 08:15 PM
Originally posted by centauratlas
This is a good thing, expanding market share is a positive. Better to grab that segment than abandon it to someone else.

Now make an expensive, phone pod with that range storage (e.g. xD or MMC memory) and they'll have another hit.

The only way this makes sense is with flash memory. It will result in longer battery times (or a smaller batter with the same time).
I think if Apple want market share they need to have their factories producing more iPods judging by this report on Mac Observer for the UK

A newspaper story has hit the stands in the UK reporting the iPod is red hot amongst Brits (including the Welsh and Scots, it would seem). The Telegraph has published an article titled "10,000-song gadget is this year's 'must-have'," while The Scotsman and ic Wales have published their own versions of the piece as "Shoppers 'Can't Get Enough of Ipods'," and "Gadget demand catches shops by surprise," respectively. From The Telegraph:

It is hailed as the gadget to revolutionise the way we listen to music. David Beckham has one and now demand for the iPod is soaring.

But shops are struggling to cope with the clamour for the lightweight, digital music player which can hold 10,000 songs and is the "must-have" Christmas gift this year.

Selfridges in London sold out last week and the John Lewis chain is taking orders for delivery after Christmas

I dont think they need to make iPods cheaper they just need to make more of them faster.

revenuee
Dec 22, 2003, 08:22 PM
Originally posted by Ja Di ksw
I don't see why it has to be smaller, the iPod is plenty small, as long as it just costs less. Why do people seem to think they need to make it smaller? If they go any smaller, the buttons will be too small, and the screen is a great size. It needs to be cheaper, not smaller

I've got a lot of stuff in my pockets

Cell Phone, Digital camera, keys, wallet, sunglasses, iPod (as off the 24th) ...

I'd like to have it all without my pants falling down ...

anodized
Dec 22, 2003, 08:32 PM
the hard drives are already really small. there's no way they can make a mini version unless it was flash. and still it would be expensive.
you can get smaller drives, but it cost more.

what's going on? is apple making a Jr. just as a ploy for the "regular" iPod?

revenuee
Dec 22, 2003, 08:42 PM
Originally posted by anodized
the hard drives are already really small. there's no way they can make a mini version unless it was flash. and still it would be expensive.
you can get smaller drives, but it cost more.

what's going on? is apple making a Jr. just as a ploy for the "regular" iPod?

Flash cards are expensive

Note: Canadian Prices i found at local retailers

1 gig Sony Memory Stick Pro - 999$
Compact flash - 259$ for 512 MB

shen
Dec 22, 2003, 09:11 PM
why is this a question? come on people, they can't keep them on the shelves now! you think a lower price is needed while they are already THE item? your insane! why would they do that to themselves?

now a few weeks later, a cheaper pod, for those who got a little cash for the holidays? then for the free songs from pepsi? that is when they can clean up the market!

bignumbers
Dec 22, 2003, 09:31 PM
Well, leave it to Apple to introduce a great consumer item - just after the holiday shopping season...

Sir_Giggles
Dec 22, 2003, 10:21 PM
Imagine if Apple rolled out a $79 iPod using not HD, nor Flash, but some other exotic, but inexpensive memory technology they've been developing for 5 years.

They would need to do something on that scale to fully dominate and rule the market for the next 3 years.

I know its just wishful thinking, but can you imagine the impact if this were true?

revenuee
Dec 22, 2003, 10:30 PM
In the spirit of wild and crazy speculation, i would love to see them roll out an accessory that allowed you to hook into a TV via the DOCK and be able to play movies or slide shows straight from the iPOD on your TV screen, without a computer in the middle

ethernet76
Dec 22, 2003, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by revenuee
In the spirit of wild and crazy speculation, i would love to see them roll out an accessory that allowed you to hook into a TV via the DOCK and be able to play movies or slide shows straight from the iPOD on your TV screen, without a computer in the middle

With the "8" hour battery life? right... you'd get...two 22 minute shows max. Assuming an unlikely format of DivX. That's not counting the harder battery hit of decoding video, that's only hd access.

But if you had an external power source...it'd be a real nice feature. Seinfeld on the go.

revenuee
Dec 22, 2003, 10:53 PM
Originally posted by ethernet76
With the "8" hour battery life? right... you'd get...two 22 minute shows max. Assuming an unlikely format of DivX. That's not counting the harder battery hit of decoding video, that's only hd access.

But if you had an external power source...it'd be a real nice feature. Seinfeld on the go.

I dare to dream and think different ... LOL

but the external power idea is good ... like the Belkin Card Reader

you'de need more power for the decoding i suppose

AC solution - i guess that would defeat it's portability.

Rod Rod
Dec 22, 2003, 11:04 PM
it's good to see this time around the "lower price iPod" rumors have not been met with the usual masochistic snobbery, characterized by defensiveness, with a resignation to high prices and pride in the corresponding prestige. hopefully more people are waking up to the idea that innovation, high quality and lower prices are a reasonable expectation.

daddy-mojo
Dec 22, 2003, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by requies
if using your ipod in that way floats your boat, good for you. i was merely pointing out that the market of individuals with music collections less than 4GB is vast.

yes, and my point is, that a lot of people out there don't intend on having 40gigs of music on their systems. This is more for the casual/regular user. I think maybe we were both making the same point perhaps.

spiraliv
Dec 23, 2003, 12:38 AM
Originally posted by Freg3000
[B](unless they use flash memory, which Steve seems opposed to)

What reasons did he give for being against flash memory?

requies
Dec 23, 2003, 01:05 AM
Originally posted by Sir_Giggles
Imagine if Apple rolled out a $79 iPod using not HD, nor Flash, but some other exotic, but inexpensive memory technology they've been developing for 5 years.

They would need to do something on that scale to fully dominate and rule the market for the next 3 years.

I know its just wishful thinking, but can you imagine the impact if this were true?


i was thinking the same thing. it is out in left field, but apple doesn't need to rely on an architecture like compact flash because the memory doesn't need to be removable. they could have designed a memory chip and had IBM fab it at their nice facility. ;)


the pie in the sky is warm and yummy! anyone else want a piece?

merges
Dec 23, 2003, 01:07 AM
I am curious about whether or not Apple would market iPods of a different appearance (significantly) than that of the current models. Perhaps the "colours" that are referred to are new packages, inspired by the multicolour ad campaign Apple has been running since the summer.

The thing is that the form factor and aesthetic properties of the current (and previous) iPods are what make an iPod an iPod, so to speak. The integration with iTunes, fast transfer, ease of use, and so on, are very important, but one of the other great things about the iPod is that you know when someone else is holding one: Shiny back, bright white front, plus bright white headphones. Colouring the iPod would reduce its "visual word of mouth" marketing potential, and I think, frankly, would make it look like Sony sport walkmans and Panasonic Shockwave equipment.

If Apple does release new iPods with different capacities, my bet is on an industrial design similar or identical to the current models.

requies
Dec 23, 2003, 01:08 AM
Originally posted by daddy-mojo
yes, and my point is, that a lot of people out there don't intend on having 40gigs of music on their systems. This is more for the casual/regular user. I think maybe we were both making the same point perhaps.


i agree that there is a great market for this product and i hope it comes to be. :)

JFreak
Dec 23, 2003, 01:17 AM
Originally posted by DarkPhoenixCA
why Apple hasn't released FW800 for the iPods?

probably because the hard drive doesn't even fully utilize the FW400 bandwidth and there's just no point in throwing a more expensive chip inside without any performance gain.

requies
Dec 23, 2003, 01:25 AM
Originally posted by merges
I am curious about whether or not Apple would market iPods of a different appearance (significantly) than that of the current models. Perhaps the "colours" that are referred to are new packages, inspired by the multicolour ad campaign Apple has been running since the summer.

The thing is that the form factor and aesthetic properties of the current (and previous) iPods are what make an iPod an iPod, so to speak. The integration with iTunes, fast transfer, ease of use, and so on, are very important, but one of the other great things about the iPod is that you know when someone else is holding one: Shiny back, bright white front, plus bright white headphones. Colouring the iPod would reduce its "visual word of mouth" marketing potential, and I think, frankly, would make it look like Sony sport walkmans and Panasonic Shockwave equipment.

If Apple does release new iPods with different capacities, my bet is on an industrial design similar or identical to the current models.


i was thinking that the whole cell-phone-like interchangeable faceplate idea would facilitate user customization and perhaps even lend itself to a convenient user-serviceable battery. however, it is easy to imagine such a thing to be clunky, complicated, and just inelegant. though i have great faith in jon ive, i think that apple might stay away from customization that steve could perceive as eroding the brand identification, much the way apple resists themes in the mac os.

rdowns
Dec 23, 2003, 04:07 AM
Originally posted by ccuilla
Apple is giving away the blades to sell the razors. This is important for anyone to understand, lest we suggest they begin giving away the razors too.

Other way around, give away the razors, sell the blades.

rdowns
Dec 23, 2003, 04:13 AM
Originally posted by Skull Leader
Yeah, a furry one would make a good iPet. (nice Kitty)

How about a ChiaPod?

GroundLoop
Dec 23, 2003, 06:40 AM
Well, it looks like Think Secret is confirming the new iPods for MWSF

Originally posted by Think Secret
Reliable sources inside and outside of Apple have confirmed Apple will announce the new pocket-size iPods in a number of capacities and in various colors, including stripes. Capacities will be 2 and 4GB -- meaning users could store some 400 and 800 songs, respectively. Prices will start at around $100US, Think Secret has learned. It is not known if the new product line will be available immediately after introduction.

It is also expected that current iPod models will be revamped to add body colors as well.

The addition of mini iPods is not unexpected what with recent comments by Jobs that such a device has been an Apple priority and MP3 industry watchers confirming the market is wide open for Apple to take a lead in technology and offer a better, faster, cheaper, low-end MP3 player.


They also say that the iLife suite and the Xserves will be updated.

and NO NEW PowerMacs or PowerBooks!

I tend to take what Think Secret reports as gospel, since they have been very close to the truth 99% of the time.

Hickman

centauratlas
Dec 23, 2003, 07:40 AM
And they'll start around $100! ;-)

Wow.

the future
Dec 23, 2003, 07:54 AM
Yeah, I can picture it... a 2 GB miniPod sporting a nice, rich red like SonyEricssons Volcanic Red... for 100 $... what a killer that would be...

orb
Dec 23, 2003, 09:08 AM
That just seems small. I stopped ripping 6cds at 6gb because I had already maxed out my 5gb ipod.

iTunes doesn't really work so well when your library is bigger than your ipod. You either have to transfer songs manually (which is not fun and means that the song you just bought from itms isn't on your ipod automatically) or you have to set up some special playlists that limit your collection to the ipod's size. Either way, it's a big pain and definitely takes away from the enjoyment of the ipod. The ipod goes from a "it just works" device to something the user has to laboriously manage.

If you don't have much music, then 2gb would be fine. But who needs an ipod if you don't have much music? Is that market really big?

Then again, my boss at work wants to buy ipods for his kids, but not at the current price. His kids probably have some, but not tons of music yet. An ipod at $150 and a $10/month allowance would be a pretty killer gift, I'd say. Hmmm...

~Shard~
Dec 23, 2003, 09:44 AM
The latest news from ThinkSecret seems to support this rumor - smaller capacity iPods, cheaper and colors! Should be interesting to see what actually is announced.

And I think the smaller capacity iPods is a great idea. There are all types of users out there, with different amounts of music, different needs, and different amounts of money they are willing to spend. There is definitely a market for 2GB or 4GB iPods, just as there is for 40GB iPods. This makes sense from Apple's perspective, as they can address more of the market this way.

iChan
Dec 23, 2003, 10:37 AM
I'd be first in line to buy new low cost iPods... they will serve the same function and apple is not known to make shabby products!!!

I mean, the emac arguably gives the best bang per buck of all the macs.

BagelTycoon
Dec 26, 2003, 03:26 PM
Remember the iPod's dirty secret (http://www.ipodsdirtysecret.com/) discovered by those wild & crazy Neistat bros?

This new lo-sto iPod sounds like a disposable, with no battery replacement capability, designed to be a throw-away.

How unenvironmentally friendly is that?

I hope I'm wrong on this

revenuee
Dec 26, 2003, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by BagelTycoon
Remember the iPod's dirty secret (http://www.ipodsdirtysecret.com/) discovered by those wild & crazy Neistat bros?

This new lo-sto iPod sounds like a disposable, with no battery replacement capability, designed to be a throw-away.

How unenvironmentally friendly is that?

I hope I'm wrong on this

i'm having purchase anxiety now after seeing that video ... :(

BagelTycoon
Dec 26, 2003, 03:48 PM
Maybe a new lo-sto iPod will lead to:

1) newer hi-sto iPods (>=50mb), and/or
2) a drop in hi-sto prices

I can't wait to see see at Macworld SF 2004

iMook
Dec 27, 2003, 04:01 PM
>= 50 mb?

Do you mean >= 50 GB? (If so, the next drive will prolly be 60 GB)
I wouldn't call 50MB high capacity.

beatle888
Dec 27, 2003, 05:18 PM
Originally posted by BagelTycoon
Remember the iPod's dirty secret (http://www.ipodsdirtysecret.com/) discovered by those wild & crazy Neistat bros?

This new lo-sto iPod sounds like a disposable, with no battery replacement capability, designed to be a throw-away.

How unenvironmentally friendly is that?

I hope I'm wrong on this

is it true? the ipods rechargable battery only lasts eighteen months and at that point you cant replace the battery with a fresh one?

merges
Dec 27, 2003, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by beatle888
is it true? the ipods rechargable battery only lasts eighteen months and at that point you cant replace the battery with a fresh one?

No, this is not true. iPod's battery will hold a charge for a fairly length period of time (at least 18 months; my 10GB touchwheel iPod is about that old and still gets 10 hours on a charge), and when it finally does die, you can send your iPod to Apple for a "new battery", at a cost of something like $150.

bertagert
Dec 27, 2003, 07:54 PM
I'm not so sure about the new ipods coming out.

First:
A lot of people are calling them mini-ipods. I can't see how or why some people think this means smaller in physical size.

Second:
If Apple is selling out or close to selling out at x-mas, why would they bring out a lower cost/not as profitable player? They are not losing market share...they're gaining it. No reason to under cut yourself. I don't have the facts on how many ipods compareed to how many others combined were sold so I may be wrong about this.

Third:
If a smaller sized ipod were introduced, then it won't be an ipod anymore. It will have to go by some other name. People aren't saying, "I need an MP3 player"...they're saying, "I need an iPod". Having a different type/form factor will break this.

The only reason I could think of is if it's going to go hand-in-hand with the Pepsi giveaway. But still, why sell something cheaper when you don't have too? People either have a ipod or they're going to get one sometime soon.

My prediction: No mini-ipods will be introduced at MWSF.

beatle888
Dec 27, 2003, 08:19 PM
Originally posted by merges
No, this is not true. iPod's battery will hold a charge for a fairly length period of time (at least 18 months; my 10GB touchwheel iPod is about that old and still gets 10 hours on a charge), and when it finally does die, you can send your iPod to Apple for a "new battery", at a cost of something like $150.


damn, i am NOT going to get an ipod that costs $150 just to replace a battery. apple should do something about that. that doesnt seem right. they should have to disclose that info on the ipod packaging. $150 is half the cost of a new model, which would most likely have new features.

i wont get one now...though i wasnt really in the market for one...im still interested in seeing what the cheaper models (if true) will be like.

bertagert
Dec 27, 2003, 08:32 PM
beatle,

I think the battery is 99 through Apple. Or you can get a third party one and install it yourself for $49.

However, what those guys did was wrong. They tried to speak for the whole community that owns ipods. I have the original 10 gig and the new 15 gig. Neither have battery problems. And for the 10 gig not to have problems, that means that 18 month battery life is not true like those two brothers say in their video.

Go get one if you want one. Best investment I've made in a long time. I use my ipod on a daily basis. Definitely got my moneys worth.

merges
Dec 27, 2003, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by beatle888
damn, i am NOT going to get an ipod that costs $150 just to replace a battery. apple should do something about that. that doesnt seem right. they should have to disclose that info on the ipod packaging. $150 is half the cost of a new model, which would most likely have new features.

i wont get one now...though i wasnt really in the market for one...im still interested in seeing what the cheaper models (if true) will be like.

I don't really follow your logic; as with most electronic devices that require batteries, consumers should expect to incur ongoing energy costs. Rechargable batteries do not last forever; alternative players use AA batteries. A hard disk-based player like iPod running on AA batteries would cost a fortune and be very ineffecient.

iPod offers an incredible experience, from its form factor and ease of use, to its capacity and performance. Given that I can use my iPod for about 20-30 hours per week (listening to all my music, that's about ten gigs' worth) without paying $5.00 every couple of days for new batteries, or recharging NiCads every two hours of iPod use, I consider it an excellent value. I haven't even thought about what will happen when my battery stops holding a charge, and as I said, I've had my iPod for about eighteen months now and get about ten hours of continuous play on a single charge.

Yes $150 is expensive for a battery on a $400 device, but $5 for a halogen bulb in my $10 Ikea lamp seems a bit steep too. But I don't have to replace the bulb very often, and it's still a great value.

beatle888
Dec 27, 2003, 09:18 PM
well thats better of them to allow you to change the battery yourself. from what i read here it sounded like you had to send it in and pay $150.

buying the battery yourself for $99 or from a third party for $49 is much better.

thanks for clearing that up. i feel better for apple and us mac enthusiasts.

Rod Rod
Dec 28, 2003, 02:14 AM
Originally posted by bertagert

The only reason I could think of is if it's going to go hand-in-hand with the Pepsi giveaway. But still, why sell something cheaper when you don't have too? People either have a ipod or they're going to get one sometime soon.

My prediction: No mini-ipods will be introduced at MWSF.

I doubt anybody would buy a $299-$499 iPod just because they got a $0.99 freebie from a Pepsi bottle.

That's why there should be a lower cost iPod. They have to sell something cheaper. People either have an iPod or want one. There are many more in the latter category who could only reasonably budget half or less than half that, compared to those who could afford the present lineup.

revenuee
Dec 28, 2003, 02:30 AM
Originally posted by Rod Rod
I doubt anybody would buy a $299-$499 iPod just because they got a $0.99 freebie from a Pepsi bottle.
.

You'd be surprised what people are capable of doing

FlamDrag
Dec 28, 2003, 12:44 PM
While I don't doubt colored versions of an iPod - and I don't understand people who consider the idea to be inconceiveable - the idea of "faceplates" I consider highly doubtful. Furthermore, the timing is perfect for new models.

First to address the colored iPod doubters. The main argument against the colored iPod - or any form factor change - from this group seems to be that "why would Apple change a good thing?" iPod is in danger of becoming a fad device. If nothing about the iPod changes other than capacity, it will undoubtedly be said fad. Apple needs to continue to keep the iPod fresh and hip. By introducing new colors etc. Apple can simply change the image of the iPod instead of losing the mindshare completely. My prediction is that the colors will be specific to the capacity in order to keep the prestige of owning the device. For example, the least expensive models come in blue, green and purple. Next largest in yellow, orange and red. The largest capacities (inc the current lineup) in Black, silver and white. By doing it in this way, you can still be seen as "cool" by those who know how big your iPod is by the color alone. The time is NOW for a change.

Still more cannot understand the reasoning behind a new iPod - in whatever form - immediately after the holiday season. It's simple really. They used the holiday season to milk the current iPod for all it is worth. If they sold nearly all of their current inventory and sold them at full price, they have succeeded mightily. Additionally, as others have pointed out, many teens received gift cards and cash as holiday gifts. Apple can seize the moment to introduce something affordable for this market.

Finally, faceplates are doubtful - in my opinion - for one and only one reason; Apple does not like to lose control of their products. When Nokia and the rest introduced faceplates, every schmoe with a plastics factory introduced their own wacky face plates. Nokia's idea, everyone else cashed in on it. If Apple wants to keep control and mindshare - as I suspect that they do - they will not allow for easily customisable exteriors.

Mac Dummy
Dec 28, 2003, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by bishopduke
I would absolutely love to buy an ipod, but give me a break! $300? I would purchase a 2/4 gb model withought even thinking twice if it were $100, and I'd probably get one if it was $150. I'd love to have the ipod just to be able to back up stuff on it. I dont have 4 gigs of music that I would put on it. Thats just too much. And the colors... I think white and black would be sufficient. I dont want to see grey with flowers all over it.... just my 2 cents.

I think that the 3G Ipods are great but, very expensive. Not to mention the fact that the battery can not be replaced by the user and runs for about 8 hours or less. If Apple produced a mini-Ipod (say 4-6Gb) that had better than an 8 hour battery life priced around $100-150 then I think they'll have a winner!

Mac Dummy
Dec 28, 2003, 09:42 PM
Originally posted by merges
I don't really follow your logic; as with most electronic devices that require batteries, consumers should expect to incur ongoing energy costs. Rechargable batteries do not last forever; alternative players use AA batteries. A hard disk-based player like iPod running on AA batteries would cost a fortune and be very ineffecient.

iPod offers an incredible experience, from its form factor and ease of use, to its capacity and performance. Given that I can use my iPod for about 20-30 hours per week (listening to all my music, that's about ten gigs' worth) without paying $5.00 every couple of days for new batteries, or recharging NiCads every two hours of iPod use, I consider it an excellent value. I haven't even thought about what will happen when my battery stops holding a charge, and as I said, I've had my iPod for about eighteen months now and get about ten hours of continuous play on a single charge.

Yes $150 is expensive for a battery on a $400 device, but $5 for a halogen bulb in my $10 Ikea lamp seems a bit steep too. But I don't have to replace the bulb very often, and it's still a great value.

Maybe Apple should start marketing their own replacement Lithium Ion battery for the Ipod,and make it a user replaceable option. Admittedly they wouldn't make a new sale every time the battery on someone's Ipod fails, but users could extent its useable life.