Man has affair with Nurse, sues hospital!

Raid · Jul 16, 2008

TORSTAR NEWS SERVICE said:
Metro News July 15, 2008 11:25

It started with an innocent game of chess between a patient and his nurse. But it quickly evolved.

Soon, the pair were having sex all over the hospital in his room, the staff lounge, examination room. But their clandestine encounters went beyond the walls of the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health on Queen St. W. When permitted to leave the hospital for a few hours on a community pass, the good-looking 6-foot-3 patient met the woman at a nearby hotel.

Although she was married, their relationship lasted about two years and remained intact even after she was fired from CAMH an incident he blamed himself for and, in an act of penance, jumped into oncoming traffic.

When she became pregnant last fall, he slipped into a depression, which again landed him in hospital. Its an unusual tale that has been pieced together from his clinical notes, a CAMH report and an $850,000 lawsuit recently filed in an Ontario Superior Court.

The patient, identified only as John, is suing CAMH and the nurse, identified as Jane. The court has banned publication of their names to protect the identity of the child.

I just know that she messed my head up pretty good and that Ive done things to myself that I never did before, John told Torstar News Service.

According to the statement of claim, John alleges Jane was negligent in her treatment when she failed to discourage a social relationship, refused to respect professional boundaries and neglected to consider the harm that would result from violating them.

The hospital, it alleges, failed to arrange for appropriate supervision, inspection and monitoring of John at his home. Had they checked on him, John says, they would have discovered her lingerie, strewn about his apartment.

I saw this article today which reminded me of this thread. I guess this goes to prove lawsuits based on flimsy premises aren't all based in the US of A.

The man in question lives out a classic fantasy then sues the hospital and nurse for getting some action! Granted he was a patient in a hospital that treats addiction and mental problems, so he's got problems and the nurse should have known better; but common, a two year relationship even outside the hospital and now he sues?!?

Sure there are a lot of issues here, but I wouldn't give much consideration in the suit to his relationship with the former nurse. Yes stressful events happened with the nurse that impacted this man's life, but he is still ultimately responsible for his actions. What society needs is some sort of legal definition for a "Reasonable amount of personal responsibility" so these suits can focus on the lack of hospital supervision rather than this guy's affair.

Lord Blackadder · Jul 16, 2008

The state needs to remind this man about personal responsibility.

AppleMatt · Jul 16, 2008

Lord Blackadder said:
The state needs to remind this man about personal responsibility.

No, they don't. I don't agree with suing for a set amount of money (how do you quantify psychological harm?) but I completely agree with the principle.

Some may know I work in a similar setting, and these 'opportunities' pop up all the time, but understanding the reasons behind it and the abuse and psychological damage pursuing it does cause means that no-one with an ounce of professional boundaries (or a caring heart) would consider following through.

This boils down to institutional abuse. She needs to lose her job, then she needs to lose her registration and finally she needs to be shown consequences. It would surprised many at how extremely vulnerable even large, confident muscular fully grown men can become, when at the behest of any mental illness.

Flame away, but before anyone does ask yourself if the nurse had been male and was abusing a female patient, would you feel any different? Or would you get that awkward feeling in your chest, when you know something is sick, and that person should pay for their actions?

AppleMatt

Lord Blackadder · Jul 16, 2008

AppleMatt said:
No, they don't. I don't agree with suing for a set amount of money (how do you quantify psychological harm?) but I completely agree with the principle.

<...snip...>

Flame away, but before anyone does ask yourself if the nurse had been male and was abusing a female patient, would you feel any different? Or would you get that awkward feeling in your chest, when you know something is sick, and that person should pay for their actions?

AppleMatt

The nurse deserves to be punished, I agree, but in no part of the man's statement did he admit of any personal responsibility in the matter. I can't accept that. I'm not convinced that he his entitled to monetary compensation for this, unless he is awarded damages in the form of further psychological treatment.

The nurse abused her position, but who's to say the relationship itself was abusive? Who's to say "John" wasn't fine with the situation till it ended, then abused his own position by overemphasizing the impropriety of the nurse/patient affair in order to get revenge?

Abstract · Jul 16, 2008

I only agree that he should sue if he originally entered the "Addiction and Mental Health" clinic for being addicted to sex.

Otherwise, no. She should be punished. The hospital shouldn't be.

Peace · Jul 16, 2008

They better put these two people in different hospitals when this is resolved.

Mpulsive81 · Jul 16, 2008

It's two consensual adults bumpin' uglies and he's somehow he's got a case?

What...now we can sue our ex's for dumping us and causing us mental anguish? Or was maybe we sue our ex's for allowing themselves to get pregnant and causing us mental anguish. Maybe she should sue the hospital for admitting attractive men? I mean really...what's next?

her = stupid for having an affair
him = stupid for getting involved with a married woman

At the end of the day, these were decisions and choices made by ADULTS. It just happens that one adult is depressed. Now he's trying to get a little cash cause she split and he's feeling vulnerable. I mean, who sits around and makes up these lawsuits anyways? That's the person that makes me sick. You got fired! I blame me....*jumps out in front of moving cars* - now i'm going to sue you because I felt bad! All I see here is an attention whore who's mad that he can't have what he wants and is throwing an $850,000 temper tantrum.

AppleMatt - I really wish I could understand where you're coming from on this but I honestly can't. If it were a female patient and a male nurse (like Focker! lol) there'd be no difference. No one was raped...they're both adults and they made their choice. And yes, before we go there, I am well aware of the effects of depression, on a personal & professional level. But at the end of the day, both parties need to be responsible for their actions. If you chose to get involved with a married woman, there's a good chance it wasn't going to work in your favor. People break up all the time...it sucks, but that's life. Suck it up, take your zoloft, and try your luck again with another fish in the sea.

Antares · Jul 16, 2008

Lord Blackadder said:
The nurse deserves to be punished

I agree....with whips and a leather harness.

Now, I concur about the crossing of professional boundaries here and it being an action definitely to get her fired. That was why she was fired from the hospital, right? But he was of sound mind and they were both consenting adults. It would be a different story if he was mentally impaired and she took advantage of that. I see no problem here other than the crossing of professional boundries.

But yeah, there is a double standard. If the genders were reversed, I guarantee that there would be cries of rape and no sympathy for the nurse (if the nurse was male and the patient female).

That guy actually experienced something that most men can only fantasize about...he has no right to complain.

Sun Baked · Jul 16, 2008

I hope her husband sues him ...

Sort of sad when he did his penance, that he jumped in front of slow moving traffic.

roisin and mac · Jul 17, 2008

Kinda have to agree with AppleMatt on this one. This isn't like any other affair between a couple of adults, it's an affair between a medical carer and a patient, which from what I know is a huge no-no for medical professionals. And the mention of the guy being in an addictions wing or summat, makes me think that it might have to do with psychiatry too, in which case, it's even more of a no-go area to fool around with your patients. There's a reason these rules exist, it's to make sure the patient stands the best chance of getting better, it ain't to break up the fun

Plus, like someone else said, on an emotional level, the fact this was a tall, bulky guy doesn't mean he wasn't vulnerable to what you might call a mindfuch, which is what we're being told happened. Again like AppleMatt said, a good way to sort out one's biases in this, is to think about how you'd see this if it had been a female patient and male doctor--most people would be up in arms without needing to explore the issue much, but often people are used to thinking men are always the tough party in any mixed gender interaction, so they get snarky when they read about something like that, and call the guy a wuss or decide he's lying.

mistyblue · Jan 8, 2009

cardiac rehab.nurse has affair with married patient

I've got one for you. Myhusband had quadruple bypass surgery feb. 2008.In April 2008 he was still having some sort of hallucinations.Seeing giant hub caps,giant dust particals,exploding pig in multicolor ect. I was told this was possibly because of being on vent. and bypass pump for so many hours. In April he started his cardiac rehab. I drove him the first few times. After that he went on his own. I worried. By late may or early july his rehab. nurse began coming to our home every single day after work whether I was at work or at home.I went back to work shortly after he began rehab.We live at a beach in a building with a pool.My husband said that the nurse was coming after work to use our pool and walk the beach for exercise.She used her position to gain my trust. I,myself had health issues that on July 10,2008 caused my doctor to put me out of work to get well enough to have surgery.On July 18,2008,I had a rectocele,cystocele repair,1 ft. of my colon removed,my bladder tacked and an ovary removed. I was told not to be shocked if I woke up with a colostomy.2 days after my surgery the rehab. nurse left her husband.She and my husband,her patient,had been having an affair.The nurse forbid her husband to tell me and she still came to my house every day after work. It was all I could do to pull myself out of bed.I was tired,sore,had a foley cath.my marriage was under strain due to my husband illness,surgery,my illness,surgery.My husband was taking care of me but when the nurse came over,first she would vanish,then he would. They were meeting in a hotel 2 miles from our home.We live in a small comm.Neighbors were telling me of this,friends were telling me of this.I was trying to recover.One day I rode to the motel myself when I could drive a car, and saw the two coming out of the motel together. They were very much a couple.I confronted them both. I asked her how she could betray my trust in her like that. I hold my husband to blame for his part,but then he was having occassional hallucinations and problems with short term memory too.She was the professional.She had been telling my husband of all her marital issues,said she was feeling suicidal,calling him at night drunk in a bar and asking him to come pick her up.We seperated Aug.18,2008.They moved in together.

jarjarblinks · Jan 8, 2009

mistyblue said:
I've got one for you. They moved in together.

Mistyblue, God bless, and may you recover in mind and body in the tenure of 2009. Holding you in prayer.

ucfgrad93 · Jan 8, 2009

Lord Blackadder said:
The state needs to remind this man about personal responsibility.

Agreed. It seems that very few people want to take personal repsonsibility for their actions. It is always someone else's fault.

.Andy · Jan 8, 2009

ucfgrad93 said:
Agreed. It seems that very few people want to take personal repsonsibility for their actions. It is always someone else's fault.

In cases such as this, there are two issues. Taking personal responsibility is one of them, but professional misconduct by abusing the power differential is another. Suing someone (or their employer) for abuse of power does not necessarily mean that the person is shirking any of their personal responsibility.

There are very strict rules on entering into relationships with patients. If I were to abuse the therapeutic relationship with one of my patients, I would be more accountable than they were.

ucfgrad93 · Jan 8, 2009

.Andy said:
In cases such as this, there are two issues. Taking personal responsibility is one of them, but professional misconduct by abusing the power differential is another. Suing someone (or their employer) for abuse of power does not necessarily mean that the person is shirking any of their personal responsibility.

There are very strict rules on entering into relationships with patients. If I were to abuse the therapeutic relationship with one of my patients, I would be more accountable than they were.

He should be suing the nurse, not the hospital. Instead, he is simply going for the deep pockets.

mkrishnan · Jan 8, 2009

.Andy said:
There are very strict rules on entering into relationships with patients. If I were to abuse the therapeutic relationship with one of my patients, I would be more accountable than they were.

The rules definitely should be one-sided. The healthcare provider has the differential power in the relationship. This nurse's behavior was unethical in the extreme. His behavior was stupid, but it was hers that was unethical. I mean, this is a person being treated in an addiction center. If I did something like this to my patient, I would expect to be held severely accountable.

Also, if this were a male doctor and a female patient, the headline would probably read that this Lothario doctor had seduced her and the support for her position would be far more spread. This is not an issue of a male/female power imbalance. This is an issue of a care provider / patient imbalance, and she is on the guilty side whether she were male or female.

.Andy · Jan 8, 2009

ucfgrad93 said:
He should be suing the nurse, not the hospital.

That's not how it works I'm afraid. The hospital are the one's providing the care and therefore responsible for ensuring the fitness and actions of their staff. The nurse is also personally culpable for professional misconduct and would likely be struck off the nursing register for a period of time for her actions.

Can anyone find how this ended up? it was quite a while ago now. I'm not having much luck on google news.....

mkrishnan said:
The rules definitely should be one-sided. The healthcare provider has the differential power in the relationship. This nurse's behavior was unethical in the extreme. His behavior was stupid, but it was hers that was unethical. I mean, this is a person being treated in an addiction center. If I did something like this to my patient, I would expect to be held severely accountable.

Also, if this were a male doctor and a female patient, the headline would probably read that this Lothario doctor had seduced her and the support for her position would be far more spread. This is not an issue of a male/female power imbalance. This is an issue of a care provider / patient imbalance, and she is on the guilty side whether she were male or female.

Exactly. During training we're severely warned that the medical registration boards will support us and be largely forgiving for almost anything - drug addiction, professional incompetence, criminal activity etc etc. The only thing that they'll usually wash their hands of us is sexual misconduct. For a number of reasons (one of which you illustrate) it's not acceptable at all.

atszyman · Jan 8, 2009

Once again I find that details that could make all the difference are missing. He was in the "Centre for Addiction and Mental Health" we aren't told why he was in there. Was he a patient that the hospital should have followed up with upon his release to make sure everything was going OK? Were they negligent in that followup?

The nurse bears most of the responsibility in acting unethically, especially if he was in for a reason that might have indicated his ability to make sound decisions was impaired. However, if the hospital failed to follow up on a patient that would require some checking in, then they could very well bear some of the responsibility as well.

mkrishnan · Jan 8, 2009

.Andy said:
Exactly. During training we're severely warned that the medical registration boards will support us and be largely forgiving for almost anything - drug addiction, professional incompetence, criminal activity etc etc. The only thing that they'll usually wash their hands of us is sexual misconduct. For a number of reasons (one of which you illustrate) it's not acceptable at all.

I think one of the craziest disconnects is that, as anathema as it seems to most of us, it still happens. I don't know what the training is like for nurses, but for psychologists, too, there is no lack of certainty that this is not okay.

My first college-level psychology class was a human sexuality class, and one of the guest lecturers, who was a therapist, during her talk, was quite serious and said, "DO NOT SLEEP WITH YOUR PATIENTS." I thought it was quite funny at the time -- I still do, because it would seem so unnatural to me and obviously wrong. But somehow, it happens. And it isn't even just 60-year-old white men who think they're part of some boys club. It happens, more often than we admit, all across the spectrum.

And it's not okay.

.Andy · Jan 8, 2009

mkrishnan said:
I think one of the craziest disconnects is that, as anathema as it seems to most of us, it still happens.

I guess it's those limited number of occasions where it does work out that people are chasing. But I see it as exactly the same reasons why medical professionals are desperate for love and start relationships with patients (long hours, high stress, limited free time, shift work etc) that in the long run makes the same relationships highly likely to fail. It's such a risk that puts your career, and more importantly your patients care at jeopardy.

Even the arbitrary 6 months/12 months/2 years/whatever grace period before entering into a personal relationship with a former patient/client is fraught with danger. As you point out strictly hands off is the by far the best policy for everyone.

skunk · Jan 8, 2009

Lord Blackadder said:
The nurse abused her position, but who's to say the relationship itself was abusive? Who's to say "John" wasn't fine with the situation till it ended, then abused his own position by overemphasizing the impropriety of the nurse/patient affair in order to get revenge?

Who's to say? Why, the court, of course. That's what it's there for.

I absolutely agree with AppleMatt here. This sounds like abuse of a vulnerable patient, and if it had been a male nurse with a vulnerable female patient, surely nobody would be in any doubt about culpability. If he did jump into oncoming traffic when she lost her job, it shows that either he was very psychologically vulnerable, or that she manipulated him into thinking it was his fault, or both.

As for monetary compensation, why not? If any other type of medical malpractice were involved, there would be no question.

JNB · Jan 8, 2009

All I want to know if this particular Canadian John is our Canadian John...

Gray-Wolf · Jan 8, 2009

They should throw the suit out. He knew full well what he was doing. He's danced to the music, now its time to pay the piper.

Raid · Jan 8, 2009

.Andy said:
Can anyone find how this ended up? it was quite a while ago now. I'm not having much luck on google news.....

The publication ban on their names makes looking for any follow ups very difficult.

I still can't really reconcile his reasoning for the lawsuit, I do feel the nurse should face the charges of professional misconduct, but a large part of the affair was conducted after his release from the hospital (and I assume with his consent).

GSMiller · Jan 8, 2009

I just know that she messed my head up pretty good and that Ive done things to myself that I never did before, John told Torstar News Service.

It was the fault of his penis he went crazy over a woman, not the hospital. Idiot, AND he reproduced, fantastic

Man has affair with Nurse, sues hospital!

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