Four 2,5" SSD to iPass + Four 3,5" HDD to RAID Card connection? [Archive]

alyks

Jul 16, 2008, 10:54 AM

Spanky Deluxe

Jul 16, 2008, 12:37 PM

1. I don't know about that cable but personally, I would use some combination of an ATA to SATA power cable converter and then some SATA Y power splitters to connect all the four drives to the ATA power cable for the second Optical drive. Space would probably be an issue though.

2. I've got no idea I'm afraid.

3. No idea.

I would say though, wouldn't it make more sense to send the SSD drives to the RAID card? I mean, since you're obviously going for a seriously fast setup (I'm guessing main drive) using the SSDs, wouldn't it be better to have *them* go the hardware raid route, so as to maximise speed? If you were to do this then you could leave the other drives and the iPass connector alone and just get a cable long enough to reach from the SSDs to the RAID card.

nanofrog

Jul 16, 2008, 01:50 PM

1. This (http://www.provantage.com/tripp-s508-18n~7TRPA1U3.htm) cable.
2. It should if you place it in the closest slot to the HDD's. (Tight fit).
3. There are multiple candidates. More info would be needed to help.

What are you doing with it? OS X only, Boot Camp, etc.?

The SSD's would be better for the RAID array. No mechanical parts to fail.

Cryptic1911

Jul 17, 2008, 01:55 PM

oh man.. brilliant idea! i'm going to have to do some research on this as i may do this if it can pan out

I bought this cable (http://www.amazon.com/Supermicro-CBL-0097L-02-Serial-Sidebands-MultiLane/dp/B000OO4AK8/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=musical-instruments&qid=1216316861&sr=8-5) for my server that i just built.. its the same as the tripplite, but its got an extra sideband cable attached that you dont need to plug in. its like $10 cheaper than the one from provantage.. cant go wrong either way, i've purchased from both companies

nanofrog

Jul 17, 2008, 07:25 PM

The Sideband connector isn't needed internally in a Mac Pro. :cool:

The savings may not be much, but every thing counts. You can always put toward other toys! :p

Tbarr

Jul 18, 2008, 01:41 PM

Hi,
I want to make this configuration in my new Mac Pro

http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/4643/1234un3.jpg

I want to use MaxConnect (http://www.maxupgrades.com/istore/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_id=158) and StarTech 3.5 Bay to dual 2.5 HD SATA hard drive adapter (http://www.startech.com/item/SATA35252X-3.5-Bay-to-Dual-2.5-SATA-HDD-Adapter.aspx) to mount four 2,5" SSDs (soft RAID) in second optical drive
Also I want to connect four internal Mac Pro Hdds to Raid Card (Hardware RAID 5)

Questions:
1 red: What cables will I need for 2,5 SSDs drive connection and power? Whether this cable (http://www.provantage.com/serial-attached-scsi-sas-cables~220159502.htm&h=90&w=90&sz=4&hl=ru&start=46&sig2=OTOGsukGPbcy7MzaplygrA&um=1&tbnid=wmjDlBLdb6N9gM:&tbnh=78&tbnw=78&ei=fQh-SOThGqae0QTtvMTMDw&prev=/images%3Fq%3DSFF%2B8087%2BSFF%2B8482%26start%3D42%26ndsp%3D21%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dru%26sa%3DN) will work? or I need special ipass cable?

I just got the MaxConnect kit for two HDs in the lower position. You might want to consider that the two HDs are only secured by the two screws on the inboard side of the drives. The 'Kit' is only a machined piece of Aluminum for the bottom plate and a piece resembling a T to support the Optical drive. The vertical part of the T is three 'Pillars' that connect to the bottom plate with three screws. The top part of the T can be seen in the picture, is about 2 inches wide and connects to the Optical drive with two screws. The 'bays' are not covered using this kit.

I used two 1TB drives with the kit and the two screws seems to hold the drives sufficiently. You might have a problem trying to secure that circuit board with just two screws near the 'pillars' as the back part of the bottom plate only extends half the width of the HD. Whatever...

I connected the drives to the two 'extra' SATA connections next to the iPass connector. I would suggest leaving the iPass as is and run the cables to a RAID card if you still want one. I used the second ATA power connector with a splitter to power the drives. You WILL have to remove the forward fans to run the SATA cables to the Optical bay. Much easier that way.

And... it works... the Optical bay door opens :D and my Software RAID survived me moving the HDs to the new location... I DID make a backup first, of course!

Have fun ;)

rtrt

Aug 15, 2008, 10:45 PM

@ alyks & Tbarr - don't suppose you have any photos from your installs guys?

would really like to see that MaxConnect setup :D

Was thinking of trying to use it for 4 extra SATA drives but really need to see it first.

Also if you have any view on how the last 2 SATA cables would get connected - some kind of SATA to IDE converter needed I guess - not included in the Maxconnect kit tho i dont think.

Any thoughts on how 2 drives would work sharing a single IDE cable?

----------------------

Maxconnect replied to my mail suggesting last 2 drives as IDE/ATA or buying a SATA port card to support last 2 drives as SATA. They wouldn't recommend a SATA to PATA converter.

nanofrog

Aug 16, 2008, 12:11 AM

Also if you have any view on how the last 2 SATA cables would get connected - some kind of SATA to IDE converter needed I guess - not included in the Maxconnect kit tho i dont think.
IDE to SATA (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812156011) converter could be used, but some form of additional SATA controller is preferable for both additional SATA ports and speed (RAID card in Tbarr's case).

If you only need 2 SATA ports, they are available on the logic board. :) Look for "ODD Port", on the left side of the logic board, and beneath the iPass connector IIRC. These ports have been mentioned in other threads, and I seem to remember they can't be booted by OS X, or seen by windows. I would recommend doing a search.

Any thoughts on how 2 drives would work sharing a single IDE cable?
If you disconnect the Optical drive, and use both connectors, (1 per drive), it can be done. You would lose the optical drive unless there is a second IDE interface available on the logic board. If so, you'd need another IDE cable.
NO, if you meant how to use 1 IDE connector for 2 drives. :(
(Not sure if you actually meant cable or connector, Sorry).

rtrt

Aug 16, 2008, 08:17 AM

Thanks nanofrog

IDE to SATA (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812156011) converter could be used, but some form of additional SATA controller is preferable for both additional SATA ports and speed (RAID card in Tbarr's case).

Think a SATA controller was what Maxconnect recommended also. Will need one where the ports are accessible from inside the case.

If you only need 2 SATA ports, they are available on the logic board. :) Look for "ODD Port", on the left side of the logic board, and beneath the iPass connector IIRC. These ports have been mentioned in other threads, and I seem to remember they can't be booted by OS X, or seen by windows. I would recommend doing a search.

Have already added the cable to allow access to these ODD ports externally - dont find my WD external drives work reliably here - hence looking at an internal solution

If you disconnect the Optical drive, and use both connectors, (1 per drive), it can be done. You would lose the optical drive unless there is a second IDE interface available on the logic board. If so, you'd need another IDE cable.
NO, if you meant how to use 1 IDE connector for 2 drives. :(
(Not sure if you actually meant cable or connector, Sorry).

Sorry wasnt clear - I meant both connectors - was concerned about some kind of contention with 2 hdd's on a single cable.

nanofrog

Aug 17, 2008, 02:43 AM

Thanks nanofrog
Think a SATA controller was what Maxconnect recommended also. Will need one where the ports are accessible from inside the case.
I found this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816124017) on newegg. At $15.99, I'd say buy it, and don't think twice. ;)
I went to the manufacturer site (http://www.syba.com/Product/Info/Id/4), and found it does support OS X. :)
Have already added the cable to allow access to these ODD ports externally - dont find my WD external drives work reliably here - hence looking at an internal solution
It seems that the ODD ports are far more trouble than they're worth. :p
Sorry wasnt clear - I meant both connectors - was concerned about some kind of contention with 2 hdd's on a single cable.
No problem, better than a misunderstanding. :D

Tbarr

Aug 17, 2008, 03:06 AM

You can look at the Installation Guide here;
Mac Pro Guide (http://mysite.verizon.net/resri4zb/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/MacProGuide.pdf)

I have two 80GB partitions on the two 1TB Seagates configured as RAID 0 (205MB/s). It Boots Fine from the RAID 0. It Boots Windows XP Pro 32 bit fine using a HD in Bay 4. The Two drives in the Optical bay run about 5F cooler than the drives in the built-in bays.

And, it appears to have solved a problem with Fusion. Every so often, Fusion would see the drives differently and renumber them, then complain that it couldn't fine the Image and want to make another one. I haven't had that problem since installing the two drives in the Optical bay using the ODD SATA ports.

rtrt

Aug 17, 2008, 10:06 PM

thanks to nanofrog and Tbarr - shared experience wins over muddling thro again :D

I looked at the card and at that price i'd def pick one up - unfortunately they don't ship to the uk. :(

Mailed the manufacturer to see if they have any uk suppliers.
Have found another US based company who's site says they will ship to the uk - www.directron.com. Mailed them and waiting for shipping costs.

That installation doc was very useful - looks to me like the bottom 2 hdds are pretty well supported - not sure i'd trust the top 2 tho.

Having said that not sure what the issues might be - maybe the drives would vibrate a bit more :confused:

nanofrog

Aug 18, 2008, 12:14 AM

I looked at the card and at that price i'd def pick one up - unfortunately they don't ship to the uk. :(
Sorry, I didn't realize your location. :o
Mailed the manufacturer to see if they have any uk suppliers.
Have found another US based company who's site says they will ship to the uk - www.directron.com. Mailed them and waiting for shipping costs.
Good Luck. Hope it's good news. :)

Anyway, all you need is an internal PCIe SATA II controller card that supports OS X. The OS X will be the difficult part, without spending an arm-and-a-leg. :(
Unfortunately, I'm not sure which would be cheaper, buying US and ship to you, or buying from somewhere in the UK. :confused:

rtrt

Aug 21, 2008, 09:48 AM

nanofrog

Aug 21, 2008, 12:17 PM

Had a reply from Syba re the Sata Card cost/shipping to UK - seems like the card isnt compatible with Leopard after all - even tho as nanofrog says - the product page clearly shows a Mac OS X icon.

Have mailed to check with them.

----------------------------

Re: Syba PCI-Express Lower Profile 2-Port SATA RAID Card, Model: SD-LP-PEX2IR

Reply

Dear Customer,
Thanks for your inquiry.
This card is only compatible with windows based computer. It will not support Mac.

Best Regards,

Michael,

Syba Support Team
This really bites. :(

When I spotted the card, both the product description (newegg), and Syba's site both indicated it would work in OS X (10.4+).

I wasn't trying to send you down a road of misery. ;)
I was also interested in both this card, and a RS232 PCIe card as well.
At least I can send an e-mail about it.
Thanks for the heads-up. :)

NF.

rtrt

Aug 21, 2008, 03:32 PM

This really bites. :(

When I spotted the card, both the product description (newegg), and Syba's site both indicated it would work in OS X (10.4+).

I wasn't trying to send you down a road of misery. ;)
I was also interested in both this card, and a RS232 PCIe card as well.
At least I can send an e-mail about it.
Thanks for the heads-up. :)

NF.

NF

I seem to have pasted the wrong product id into my original mail not sure how it happened - so pls don't give them any hassle. :o

i'm looking into it now and will update later when i hear back again.

feeling pretty damn silly right now.

rt

nanofrog

Aug 21, 2008, 04:16 PM

NF

I seem to have pasted the wrong product id into my original mail not sure how it happened - so pls don't give them any hassle. :o

i'm looking into it now and will update later when i hear back again.

feeling pretty damn silly right now.

rt
No problem. Sent PM.
I know I've done stuff like that before too. ;) Even mixed part numbers with the wrong manufacturer. :eek:

Please keep us posted. :D
Inexpensive parts that work would be nice for a change. :p

rtrt

Aug 21, 2008, 05:00 PM

No problem. Sent PM.
I know I've done stuff like that before too. ;) Even mixed part numbers with the wrong manufacturer. :eek:

Please keep us posted. :D
Inexpensive parts that work would be nice for a change. :p

ok here you go - the man from Syba he says yes :) .... and no :(

-------------------------
Dear Customer,
For this model SD-SA2PEX-2IR, it is compatible with Mac. However, we do not ship to UK. You may search on the internet to see whether any dealers might carry this product in UK.

Best Regards,

nanofrog

Aug 22, 2008, 12:23 AM

ok here you go - the man from Syba he says yes :) .... and no :(

-------------------------
Dear Customer,
For this model SD-SA2PEX-2IR, it is compatible with Mac. However, we do not ship to UK. You may search on the internet to see whether any dealers might carry this product in UK.

Best Regards,
Might have some good news for you. :)

Costabunny (thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=492116)) found an eBay site http://stores.ebay.com/PCIMICROCOM that ships to Gibraltar. So hopefully, they would ship to the UK. BTW, she also found that if they don't have it listed, they can order it.

Prices actually look good as well. :D
I'll keep my fingers crossed. Let me know how it goes.

Good Luck,
NF.

rtrt

Aug 22, 2008, 04:46 AM

Might have some good news for you. :)

Costabunny (thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=492116)) found an eBay site http://stores.ebay.com/PCIMICROCOM that ships to Gibraltar. So hopefully, they would ship to the UK. BTW, she also found that if they don't have it listed, they can order it.

Prices actually look good as well. :D
I'll keep my fingers crossed. Let me know how it goes.

Good Luck,
NF.

ok cool & thanks vm :D

have dropped them a message - will report back

rtrt

Aug 24, 2008, 01:35 PM

port card ordered - arrives 6-10 business days from order - looking fwd to it already ;)

nanofrog

Aug 24, 2008, 01:52 PM

port card ordered - arrives 6-10 business days from order - looking fwd to it already ;)
Good to hear! :D
Keep us posted! :)

ntux

Aug 25, 2008, 03:07 AM

rtrt

Aug 26, 2008, 02:11 PM

Also, looking at the specifications of the chipset of this card (Sil3132 (http://www.sci-worx.com/products/product.aspx?id=32)), it seems that both sata channels support port multipliers. That could be interesting.

I mailed Syba - below is the positive reply. At least i think it's postive as I dont know what FIS means. Got to go out for a bit will download the manual and read it later.

Dear rtrt,
It will support multiplier with FIS based switching. You can see the manual from here http://www.adeltek.com/Product%20Manual/PCIi-Express%20IO%20controller/sd-sa2pex-2ir-C.jpg.

Best Regards,

nanofrog

Aug 26, 2008, 03:57 PM

I mailed Syba - below is the positive reply. At least i think it's postive as I dont know what FIS means. Got to go out for a bit will download the manual and read it later.

Dear rtrt,
It will support multiplier with FIS based switching. You can see the manual from here http://www.adeltek.com/Product%20Manual/PCIi-Express%20IO%20controller/sd-sa2pex-2ir-C.jpg.

Best Regards,
FIS (Frame Information Structure) Switching (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_multiplier) (Source: Wiki)

"FIS–based switching is similar to a USB hub. In this method of switching the host controller can issue commands to send and receive data from any drive at any time. A balancing algorithm ensures a fair allocation of available bandwidth to each drive. FIS-based switching allows the aggregated saturation of the host link and does not interfere with NCQ."

It's about half-way down the page. :)

rtrt

Aug 29, 2008, 10:04 PM

FIS (Frame Information Structure) Switching (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_multiplier) (Source: Wiki)

"FIS–based switching is similar to a USB hub. In this method of switching the host controller can issue commands to send and receive data from any drive at any time. A balancing algorithm ensures a fair allocation of available bandwidth to each drive. FIS-based switching allows the aggregated saturation of the host link and does not interfere with NCQ."

It's about half-way down the page. :)

ok I get that bit - FIS is better :)

But think i'm missing something else important - if i look here at the last diag
http://www.sata-io.org/portmultiplier.asp

i assumed i'd need a fanout cable between the hdd's and the sata i/f on the port card, but i cant find any suitable cables.

there are lot's of cables like this - which are the fanout that i expected;
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Highpoint%20Technologies/IB1M4S/
but have the wrong interface at the 'head' end.

Cant find any with sata at both ends - so what am i missing :confused:

nanofrog

Aug 29, 2008, 11:09 PM

rtrt

Aug 29, 2008, 11:45 PM

You use a standard eSATA cable (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812150023) and use it between the controller card, and a port multiplier enclosure (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816111029), typically 4 bay.

Does this help? :)

ok i see that if the hdd's are external.

but the port card from syba has internal ports and i was thinking of using those ports to connect to internal drives - on something like the maxconnect optical mount or something like this;

http://www.noiseblocker.de/en/produkt_entkoppler_nb-xswing.php

without port multiplier then i have the 2 ports on the card supporting 2 hdd's - correct?

with port multiplier i was assuming use a fanout cable to connect all 4 drives to one port or 2 cables for 2 drives per port. is that not possible? :(

nanofrog

Aug 30, 2008, 11:22 AM

ok i see that if the hdd's are external.

but the port card from syba has internal ports and i was thinking of using those ports to connect to internal drives - on something like the maxconnect optical mount or something like this;
I apologize, I had forgotten that this was the internal port model. :o

http://www.noiseblocker.de/en/produkt_entkoppler_nb-xswing.php
I've been interested in these myself. :D I'm concerned however about clearance. There isn't much room between an occupied drive bay and the PCIe slot below it, and my instincts tell me it would be a problem.

If you need to mount 2 drives internally, there is a solution that will work. It uses the empty optical drive bay. MaxConnect for Mac Pro Optical Drive Bay Disk Mounting Assembly (http://www.maxupgrades.com/istore/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_id=158). The downside, is it isn't cheap at $129.00 USD.
without port multiplier then i have the 2 ports on the card supporting 2 hdd's - correct?
Correct. :)
with port multiplier i was assuming use a fanout cable to connect all 4 drives to one port or 2 cables for 2 drives per port. is that not possible? :(
You wouldn't be able to use a fan-out cable.
Port multiplication is accomplished by another IC. Usually, it's offered in external enclosures, but I've done a quick search, and located an internal port multiplier (http://www.addonics.com/products/host_controller/ad5sapm.asp). I just don't know if they would ship to the UK.

Always a catch...:p

Edit: Checked further... They do ship internationally. Didn't have your postal code, but economy shipping still gave a price. Currency exchange gives total cost of $68.00GBP. :D

rtrt

Aug 31, 2008, 08:09 PM

I've been interested in these myself. :D I'm concerned however about clearance.

Might risk it to see - will keep you posted if i do

If you need to mount 2 drives internally, there is a solution that will work.

yep knew about that one - not sure about the support for the top 2 drives tho'

Edit: Checked further... They do ship internationally. Didn't have your postal code, but economy shipping still gave a price. Currency exchange gives total cost of $68.00GBP. :D

thanks for digging that out NF - appreciated.

think i'll bookmark it & hold fire for now & see how the syba card pans out on it's own.

nanofrog

Sep 1, 2008, 12:55 AM

yep knew about that one - not sure about the support for the top 2 drives tho'
Not quite sure what you mean here. :confused:
Clarification might help. ;)
thanks for digging that out NF - appreciated.

think i'll bookmark it & hold fire for now & see how the syba card pans out on it's own.
That's what I would do. If what you have will work as you wish, why spend the money? If not, then it becomes a need, and there is no longer a choice. ;) :p

rtrt

Sep 1, 2008, 09:20 AM

Not quite sure what you mean here. :confused:
Clarification might help. ;)
:p
just a ref to the maxconnect manual linked to by Tbarr earlier in this post.

If you take a look you'll see that the top2 drives are only supported on one side - looks like something you'd want to avoid if you could.

Maybe not an issue immediately but what about as time goes on - vibration/flexing ....

have a look you'll see what i mean even if you dont share the concern

nanofrog

Sep 1, 2008, 11:05 AM

just a ref to the maxconnect manual linked to by Tbarr earlier in this post.

If you take a look you'll see that the top2 drives are only supported on one side - looks like something you'd want to avoid if you could.

Maybe not an issue immediately but what about as time goes on - vibration/flexing ....

have a look you'll see what i mean even if you don't share the concern
I've only seen photos on their site, but I understand your concern. Hard to tell without getting my hands on it and see for myself.

However, I've had to install many drives that were only held by two screws, and it was never a problem. :) From this experience, I don't think you really need to panic. :p

Ultimately, I haven't seen any other product that will allow this sort of installation, so there really isn't any choice. :eek: :D

rtrt

Sep 1, 2008, 12:38 PM

I've only seen photos on their site, but I understand your concern. Hard to tell without getting my hands on it and see for myself.

this is the pic here - you can see that the top 2 drives are supported on one side only - silver T piece in the middle.

it might be that there's no room to design it another way - doesn't look like there's much space on the far right or left to put in a supporting piece. Tbarr didnt flag any issues so maybe i'm worrying over nothing as you say.

How about you pick up the maxconnect solution :p
and i'll give the noiseblocker brackets a shot :D and we can report back - each getting the local solution - assuming youre North America somewhere that is.

Actually tbh i've already ordered some noiseblockers :eek: - so will report back in any case

nanofrog

Sep 1, 2008, 03:35 PM

How about you pick up the maxconnect solution :p
and i'll give the noiseblocker brackets a shot :D and we can report back - each getting the local solution - assuming youre North America somewhere that is.

Actually tbh i've already ordered some noiseblockers :eek: - so will report back in any case
I plan to. ;) But it will have to wait until the new model Mac Pro arrives. :eek:

Any info on the noiseblocker would be nice. Especially if it fits. :p