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MacRumors
Dec 24, 2003, 04:58 PM
ThinkSecret reports (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/pbg4upgrade.html) that U.S. owners of the original and "Gigabit Ethernet" G4 PowerBooks will be able to take part in a new pilot trade in program.

According to the rumor site, Apple will be offering $700 trade-in credit for eligible laptops towards a new 15" or 17" PowerBook from Apple.

Eligible laptops need to be in reasonable physical condition, free from LCD or other accidental damage. The program will reportedly be available through AppleCare until March 27, 2004.

beatle888
Dec 24, 2003, 05:03 PM
gigabit? would that be the second gen 667?

if so i thought i'd be able to get more than $700 in resale value.

oh well...this is a good little system.



just checked system profiler, it doesnt tell me if its gigabit or not.
time for me to check the article.

OutThere
Dec 24, 2003, 05:07 PM
I'm not exactly sure I understand what the process is going to be, and why? Anyone care to explain?

Arcady
Dec 24, 2003, 05:08 PM
$700 seems like a decent trade-in value if you have a 400mhz model, but people are getting much more than that for the 500 and 550/667 models on eBay.

Superdrive
Dec 24, 2003, 05:10 PM
I have a 400 mhz G4 just waiting for a 1.33 ghz successor! WooHoo!!

AmigoMac
Dec 24, 2003, 05:14 PM
Help apple to deliver the actual production, and they will give us the PB G5.... good for the giga-owners....;)

jaykk
Dec 24, 2003, 05:19 PM
I will trade-in my 550Mhz without a doubt if they accept mine, I have to use TiPaint several time to repair the paint issue. I will be happy even if they announce a G5 PB later.

JDOG_
Dec 24, 2003, 05:22 PM
$700 isn't even really a 1/3rd of the price for a new one...this is more of a marketing ploy than something to benefit the customer. Think about how much they can turn around that money and sell the refurbished one for over a grand. Meh, I'd stick with eBay :rolleyes:

avus
Dec 24, 2003, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by JDOG_
Think about how much they can turn around that money and sell the refurbished one for over a grand.

Don't be too cynical. Apple isn't in the business of selling two-years old computers - Even if it is, it wouldn't make any money, as the cost of checking the system and repairing any cosmetic damages (remember, we are talking about Ti here) would be really high.

jcw
Dec 24, 2003, 05:33 PM
good way to recover PB's which run OS9

VicMacs
Dec 24, 2003, 05:59 PM
what they should do is buy all the pb g3s hehe i sold a 550 pb for 1200 dollars in august just before the Al PBs came out... just threw in a 80 dollar cd-r and the guy was happy as a clam:) and so was I!

now for the 400 model... well 700 NOW is not so bad..

back to the g3 pb.. there are a lot of those around! if they offered 200 for an ipod sale now there we'd have something...

:)

dreeeeaam dream dream dream dream dreaaaaaaam

DTphonehome
Dec 24, 2003, 06:02 PM
On ebay it seems that the average 667mhz DVI PB is going for less than a grand. Most of the ones that go for more have extras included (like high-end software packages). If I got 700 bucks for my 667 DVI, no questions asked, straight from Apple, I might do it. Not that I need a new laptop anyway, I was hoping to hold out for the G5 PB, whenever it may come. OF course, I'll get peanuts for my PB then.

--DT

rdowns
Dec 24, 2003, 06:05 PM
Originally posted by JDOG_
$700 isn't even really a 1/3rd of the price for a new one...this is more of a marketing ploy than something to benefit the customer. Think about how much they can turn around that money and sell the refurbished one for over a grand. Meh, I'd stick with eBay :rolleyes:

A hell of a lot easier to just send it to Apple then deal with the crap on America's Garage Sale.

rdowns
Dec 24, 2003, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by jaykk
I will trade-in my 550Mhz without a doubt if they accept mine, I have to use TiPaint several time to repair the paint issue. I will be happy even if they announce a G5 PB later.

Apple confirmed that US-based owners of the original and "Gigabit Ethernet" G4 PowerBooks will be able to participate in the upgrade program through March 27, 2004.

Seems to me this confirms no PB G5s until April at the earliest.

york2600
Dec 24, 2003, 06:10 PM
Not that it makes a huge difference, but take into account that selling things on eBay isn't free. This comes from the guy with the $150 eBay bill.

centauratlas
Dec 24, 2003, 06:10 PM
Macintouch reported/discussed this on Monday so I am not really sure why ThinkSecret is saying "Exclusive". There was some discussion of it both Monday and Tuesday this week (and perhaps last Friday even).

:-)

p.s. I don't see the link for it, but will post it when I find it.

centauratlas
Dec 24, 2003, 06:16 PM
This is what they said Tuesday, and had a similar bit on Monday:
-------
From Dec 23, 2003 Macintouch:
MacInTouch readers reported an Apple PowerBook G4 upgrade program, running through March 27, 2004, said to offer a credit to original PowerBook G4 owners in the U.S. on an upgrade to the current 15" or 17" PowerBook G4 models, and said customers should contact Apple at 800-275-2273 for details. (PowerBooks that have been damaged are not eligible.)

[John Romadka] I spoke to a product specialist at Apple and they said they would give customers who have the original Powerbook G4 and the 1Ghz Powerbook G4 $700 towards the purchase of a new one.
_ Not sure why they would bother since you could get much more for it selling it outright on eBay.

ZildjianKX
Dec 24, 2003, 06:54 PM
If this is true, we know when the next powerbooks are coming out... the week after this offer ends :)

If this really is true, they're probably trying to kill their overstock of PBs.

ITR 81
Dec 24, 2003, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by JDOG_
$700 isn't even really a 1/3rd of the price for a new one...this is more of a marketing ploy than something to benefit the customer. Think about how much they can turn around that money and sell the refurbished one for over a grand. Meh, I'd stick with eBay

Yeah, and get about the same amount once you figure in Ebays percentage, Paypals percentage and then shipping charges.

If I had an older PB I would def. go this route. $700 off is more then I can get now with my edu. account...so this is hell of alot better deal then most.

Apple will probably just end up recycling these old PB's to make back a few bucks.
According to MacAddict you can get $2.00 for your 12-15inch PB and $2.50 for the 17incher. So Apple could make maybe $2.00 bucks off each of the PB's it gets in return.

ITR 81
Dec 24, 2003, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by ZildjianKX
If this is true, we know when the next powerbooks are coming out... the week after this offer ends :)

If this really is true, they're probably trying to kill their overstock of PBs.

Yep the end of March or in April.
I say it's better then having to wait till Oct. or Nov. for a G5 PB.

idkew
Dec 24, 2003, 07:24 PM
Even with the 3% you would lose to eBay and PayPal, this is no deal at all. A 500mhz version will fetch over $700, after fees, very easily. Besides, any upgrades added to the machine are nullified (RAM, HD, Extra Batteries and Power Adapters...)

667's on eBay. (http://search-completed.ebay.com/ws/search/SaleSearch?ht=1&satitle=667+powerbook&soitemstatus=2&sosortproperty=3&sosortorder=2)

500's on eBay. (http://search-completed.ebay.com/ws/search/SaleSearch?ht=1&satitle=500+powerbook+titanium&from=R10&soitemstatus=2&sosortproperty=3&sosortorder=2)

The only case I could see this being benefecial to the consumer is that if the said powerbook is in poor cosmetic condition, thereby reducing its value.

rickvanr
Dec 24, 2003, 07:41 PM
off topic, but i have to ask
i have a pb 1ghz superdrive

when i put in a cd sometimes the thing vibrates like crazy, does anyone else experience this or is it normal?

Grimace
Dec 24, 2003, 08:11 PM
true, if you know how to advertise on Ebay well, and you have a good product, you get get for more than $700- even after ebay and paypal fees.

My question is why they would do this only until March? Is this a one time deal or could it be ongoing - or make its way to imacs, emacs?

Grimace
Dec 24, 2003, 08:12 PM
rickvanr,

that is normal - the whirring sound. It may get really noisy, but as long as everything works okay - nothing to be worried about.

wtmcgee
Dec 24, 2003, 08:32 PM
you'd think they would have a price scale for the models.

Stella
Dec 24, 2003, 08:32 PM
I believe ThinkSecret mentioned it was experimental.

After a successful experiment and after March, I would like to think this offer is extended to other parts of the world.

Originally posted by carletonmusic
My question is why they would do this only until March? Is this a one time deal or could it be ongoing - or make its way to imacs, emacs? [/B]

rickvanr
Dec 24, 2003, 08:34 PM
carelton music,
thank you!

but i dont mean just a hum, sometimes its a nice quite spin, and then other times, its more violent, and its loud, i can hear it over my music.

but as far as u know its fine?

X_Ranger
Dec 24, 2003, 08:39 PM
I applied for the promotion yesterday. Apple technicians are handling the arrangements.

They will ask for the unit serial number to see if it qualify for promotion. Also, they will want your credit number. I received a shipping container the next day.

I'm going to wait as long as possible before I'll send my unit back (G4 40G HD 1G ram 400 MHZ) to see if there are other good deals.

I asked why Apple's technicians are handling all the details versus the sales people; they told me that they needed the parts since the parts are longer being produced.

$700 sounds pretty good to me.

ITR 81
Dec 24, 2003, 08:42 PM
Originally posted by idkew
Even with the 3% you would lose to eBay and PayPal, this is no deal at all. A 500mhz version will fetch over $700, after fees, very easily. Besides, any upgrades added to the machine are nullified (RAM, HD, Extra Batteries and Power Adapters...)

667's on eBay. (http://search-completed.ebay.com/ws/search/SaleSearch?ht=1&satitle=667+powerbook&soitemstatus=2&sosortproperty=3&sosortorder=2)

500's on eBay. (http://search-completed.ebay.com/ws/search/SaleSearch?ht=1&satitle=500+powerbook+titanium&from=R10&soitemstatus=2&sosortproperty=3&sosortorder=2)

The only case I could see this being benefecial to the consumer is that if the said powerbook is in poor cosmetic condition, thereby reducing its value.

Not just 3%. Ebay tacks on alot for folks that sell anything over a grand. Say if you sell one for $1,500 and you had a reserve price and extra pictures and such.
By the time you get your money $100 bucks will be missing from it. Not just 3%.

And if they made it a gallery product or any other feature they could have lost another $50-100 bucks on top that.


Knowing how bad PB's dent or scratch I doubt I would ever buy one used.

ITR 81
Dec 24, 2003, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by rickvanr
carelton music,
thank you!

but i dont mean just a hum, sometimes its a nice quite spin, and then other times, its more violent, and its loud, i can hear it over my music.

but as far as u know its fine?

I have the same issue but found out it is due to some discs being slightly warped which causes it to vibrate as it spins up.

This has also happen with DVD's as well.

idkew
Dec 24, 2003, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by ITR 81
Not just 3%. Ebay tacks on alot for folks that sell anything over a grand. Say if you sell one for $1,500 and you had a reserve price and extra pictures and such.
By the time you get your money $100 bucks will be missing from it. Not just 3%.

And if they made it a gallery product or any other feature they could have lost another $50-100 bucks on top that.


Knowing how bad PB's dent or scratch I doubt I would ever buy one used.

i sell stuff on eBay quite a lot, and never has a single auction cost CLOSE to $100.

Fees for a $1,000 end price:
•$3.30 for a $770 start price (to make sure it is worth your time, after all, Apple will give you $700)
•Picture Pack for $1.00 (Or free if you serve your own. As 99% of people can do if they want to free from their ISP)
•Final Value fee of $29.12 to eBay.
•Bold and Gallery for $1.25.
•$29.30 for PayPal. (Or FREE with a Money Order)

Grand Total:
$63.97 to sell- Reduced to Only $32.42 if you host your own pictures and use a money order.

So, in conclusion, yes it is a bit of cash to sell your laptop, but you will gross MUCH more if you sell it on your own.

Rocketman
Dec 24, 2003, 09:09 PM
Originally posted by avus
Don't be too cynical. Apple isn't in the business of selling two-years old computers - Even if it is, it wouldn't make any money, as the cost of checking the system and repairing any cosmetic damages (remember, we are talking about Ti here) would be really high.

I wonder if this is related to the iBook G4 motherboard problems. Maybe this is a way to get MB's for replacements of bad iBooks cheaper or more customer friendly than any other option they have.

I gave an iBook G4 as a gift for Christmas (purchase linked through macrumors to MacMall). Not aware of the issue till post pourchase research. I am a bit scared that the many reports (on other sites but not this one:-( ) are going to possibly affect my gift. Apple seems to be only suggesting a warranty and not any sort of actual solution and some who have had motherboards replaced already have had 2-3!!

I would welcome a PBG4 MB as a sidegrade to a defective iBook G4 MB. It would be somewhat uncharacteristic of Apple to care that much but it would be sweet indeed.

Rocketman

Grimace
Dec 24, 2003, 09:18 PM
maybe they just want people to buy new laptops too. Old parts can be used or sold, getting as much of the newest and best out there in the world does a lot of free advertising for apple.

If you are on a plane and have an old school G4 laptop, those around you might notice. If you had a new 15" or 17" - people will DEFINITELY notice. I bought my 17" because a friend of mine had a new 15" - seeing an older model might not have been enough.

Photorun
Dec 24, 2003, 09:31 PM
I have to agree with the poster upthread, it's probabably a deal to clear out some of the inventory. I'm friends with an ex-Apple employee who says Powerbooks sales aren't quite what Apple had hoped for... then again, the processors in them aren't exactly what most people had hoped for either.

Skull Leader
Dec 24, 2003, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by rickvanr
but i dont mean just a hum, sometimes its a nice quite spin, and then other times, its more violent, and its loud, i can hear it over my music.

but as far as u know its fine?
I get this sometimes as well, all it means is that your CD is slightly warped and is not properly balanced. These iddy-biddy SuperDrives are VERY sensitive to even the slightest bend in the disk. I'd say that 90% of my CDs play with an almost silent hum... and there are those few that are LOUD and makes me so glad that my rips finished so that I'll never put it in there again! I noticed that it's always the same discs that have that problem, so i just avoid using those ones unless I have to.

Word of advice: Stop using you CDs as drink coasters or frisbees. ;)

Also, no way I'm giving up my 1GHz TiBook until the latest and greatest is something COMPLETELY out of this world. I really don't know why the TiBooks have such a bad rep...I love mine to death and to be honest, like the form factor (thinner and lighter) better than the current 15" AlBooks. My .02 cents.

~Shard~
Dec 24, 2003, 09:45 PM
I have to agree with a couple of the previous posters - this sounds like more of a marketing tactic than something to benefit the consumer. Well, it still does benefit the consumer, but that's not the main reason for doing it. I'm guessing PowerBook sales are sluggish, so they want to get more of them out there and help clear out their inventory. Which leads me into my second assumption - if they are wanting to help clear out existing PowerBook inventory, why would this be? The answer is to make room for the new PowerBooks. Find out when this offer expires and you will find a date which will be very close to the launch of new PowerBooks. :cool:

elgruga
Dec 24, 2003, 09:59 PM
What kind of a marketing tactic? I dont get it.

And what the hell will Apple do with a bunch of 1 - 2 year old powerbooks?

My 667 DVI Gigabit has a gig of ram, a 60 gig HD and 2 years of extended warranty still to go.
I'd be looking for about $1800 + CAD which is about $1350 USD.

I shall wait for the second or third iteration of the G5 Powerbook before I sell.

The 12 inch PB is a bit slower than my machine anyway.........(lousy cache etc.) and the 17 - no, I already have a giant tea-tray thanks.

Once a powerbook reaches a certain point in used value, it drops much more slowly, only dropping quicker if a very innovative machine is announced. The current crop arent that different from the one I have.

Parikh1234
Dec 24, 2003, 10:02 PM
Originally posted by ITR 81
Yeah, and get about the same amount once you figure in Ebays percentage, Paypals percentage and then shipping charges.

If I had an older PB I would def. go this route. $700 off is more then I can get now with my edu. account...so this is hell of alot better deal then most.

Apple will probably just end up recycling these old PB's to make back a few bucks.
According to MacAddict you can get $2.00 for your 12-15inch PB and $2.50 for the 17incher. So Apple could make maybe $2.00 bucks off each of the PB's it gets in return.

Thats why you include "Buyer to pay for all shipping and paypal charges" Also paypal is free as long as you dont use a credit card to pay :)

dongmin
Dec 24, 2003, 10:06 PM
Originally posted by ~Shard~
I have to agree with a couple of the previous posters - this sounds like more of a marketing tactic than something to benefit the consumer. Well, it still does benefit the consumer, but that's not the main reason for doing it. I'm guessing PowerBook sales are sluggish, so they want to get more of them out there and help clear out their inventory. Which leads me into my second assumption - if they are wanting to help clear out existing PowerBook inventory, why would this be? The answer is to make room for the new PowerBooks. Find out when this offer expires and you will find a date which will be very close to the launch of new PowerBooks. :cool: Marketing tactic?

I don't understand how you call something like this a marketing tactic when they don't advertise or announce it at all. If Apple was concerned about moving inventory, wouldn't Apple be better served just offering a $300-500 rebate?

Clearly they WANT something out of these old PBs. But what? I can't figure out for the life of me why these old, beat-up PBs are worth $700 to Apple.

Elektronkind
Dec 24, 2003, 10:34 PM
Originally posted by beatle888
just checked system profiler, it doesnt tell me if its gigabit or not.
time for me to check the article.

You can tell if it's a gigabit-capable tibook by opening a Terminal and running the folowing command:

ifconfig en0

If "1000baseTX" is mentioned anywhere under "supported media," congratulations, your tibook has gigabit ethernet.

/ek

pimentoLoaf
Dec 24, 2003, 11:17 PM
I hope that Apple extends this sort of service for those of us wanting a $700 trade-in program on our still-functioning 20-year-old Apple //e's.

scem0
Dec 24, 2003, 11:19 PM
I wonder if they would ever do this for PowerMacs.

This doesn't seem like a good thing for apple though..... I mean, what is in it for them? What would they do with the old books? It seems better to keep them in circulation.

scem0

Flowbee
Dec 24, 2003, 11:46 PM
Originally posted by dongmin

Clearly they WANT something out of these old PBs. But what? I can't figure out for the life of me why these old, beat-up PBs are worth $700 to Apple.

Parts for warranty repairs, most likely. The model is no longer in production, but Apple's responsible for servicing the tiBooks until 2006 (for those that purchased Applecare).

acrobat
Dec 25, 2003, 01:37 AM
i have a G4 TiBook, 1 GHz, 1 GB RAM, 60 GB HD with an extra battery... it's a year old and in very good condition... i know i can get more than $700 for it... what do you think i could get for it?

redAPPLE
Dec 25, 2003, 03:29 AM
Originally posted by Flowbee
Parts for warranty repairs, most likely. The model is no longer in production, but Apple's responsible for servicing the tiBooks until 2006 (for those that purchased Applecare).

that might as well be the real! reason.

g5 pbs in march and april?hmm. i'd rather have it next month. need one.

eir
Dec 25, 2003, 08:30 AM
NOTHING BUT GREAT NEWS!

This new SMART approach for Apple will give the company a positive spin. It will be good for all Apple consumers. We just have to wait and see how good or bad the deal it is.

If it makes sense to buy Apple products because of the backup ability to trade em in and upgrade to the next best then sales should jump in a big way at Apple.

Next: CPUs? Desktops and even older Macs I hope.

Gary

~Shard~
Dec 25, 2003, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by dongmin
Marketing tactic?

I don't understand how you call something like this a marketing tactic when they don't advertise or announce it at all. If Apple was concerned about moving inventory, wouldn't Apple be better served just offering a $300-500 rebate?

Clearly they WANT something out of these old PBs. But what? I can't figure out for the life of me why these old, beat-up PBs are worth $700 to Apple.

Hmm, maybe Marketing wasn't the right word then - too many Christmas drinkies for me I guess! ;) In any case, I won't quote and reply to my own post, so instead I'll paraphrase - PB sales might be sluggish, so this is a (insert word other than "marketing") trick to get more PBs out of inventory, to get back old PBs for parts, and to make way for the new PBs.

Dunno, thought my post was pretty clear on why I called it that, so I guess "marketing" wasn't the right word - sorry to tick you picky people off! ;)

iomar
Dec 25, 2003, 11:40 AM
Well, it sounds really good to me! I have to tell my friend to look in to this and maybe trade his!

TomSmithMacEd
Dec 25, 2003, 12:06 PM
What do you think Apple will do with these? I don't understand why someone would buy an old Powerbook on ebay, they are way overpriced compared to the iBooks.

Elektronkind
Dec 25, 2003, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by TomSmithMacEd
What do you think Apple will do with these? I don't understand why someone would buy an old Powerbook on ebay, they are way overpriced compared to the iBooks.

Old powerbooks are great for someone who needs Altivec in a portable package. Musicians on the go, for example.

I reckon Apple will refurb the powerbooks and donate them for tax reasons. They wouldn't keep them, that would look bad on the books.

/ek

crees!
Dec 25, 2003, 02:52 PM
No one has mentioned this but Gateway has the same type of program (not sure if Dell does). They say something like you can turn in your old computer every year or two and receive a credit towards a new computer purchase.

The question is does Apple just give you the $700 or does it have to be applied to a future Apple purchase?

pjkelnhofer
Dec 25, 2003, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by elgruga
What kind of a marketing tactic? I dont get it.

And what the hell will Apple do with a bunch of 1 - 2 year old powerbooks?


What did Apple do with my Premiere CD that got me $500 off FCP4? It is just a way to encourage people who were on the fence about getting new PB's to get one. I don't think we will suddenly be seeing hundreds of 500 MHz PB's in the refurb store...

pjkelnhofer
Dec 25, 2003, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by Elektronkind
Old powerbooks are great for someone who needs Altivec in a portable package. Musicians on the go, for example.
/ek

But how would it be superior to a new iBook which would have a G4 with Altivec but a faster processor? Not to mention you get a warranty on the new iBook that you probably wouldn't get on eBay.

~Shard~
Dec 25, 2003, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by pjkelnhofer
What did Apple do with my Premiere CD that got me $500 off FCP4? It is just a way to encourage people who were on the fence about getting new PB's to get one. I don't think we will suddenly be seeing hundreds of 500 MHz PB's in the refurb store...

Thanks pjkelnhofer - I knew I was right when I said "marketing tactic" in my earlier post! And here these guys were making me second-guess myself... ;)

This is precisely what I was referring to in my above posts.

electric
Dec 25, 2003, 03:19 PM
Sounds like a car dealership to me,

Buy this new car and we will give you $2000 trade in on your 1999 Lexus.

I'm just saying.

iEric
Dec 25, 2003, 03:45 PM
It sucks that its not offered in Canada.

Elektronkind
Dec 25, 2003, 04:54 PM
Originally posted by pjkelnhofer
But how would it be superior to a new iBook which would have a G4 with Altivec but a faster processor? Not to mention you get a warranty on the new iBook that you probably wouldn't get on eBay.

Well, there's always the price point of older Powerbooks. There's also the screen real-estate.

But given that at this moment, in which there is no iBook with altivec, older powerbooks (even the 800/867Mhz models) are fine for most low to moderate use in DAWs.

And when it comes to music, I'd rather have a slower PowerBook with Altivec than a faster iBook without it.

/ek

pjkelnhofer
Dec 25, 2003, 05:13 PM
Originally posted by Elektronkind
Well, there's always the price point of older Powerbooks. There's also the screen real-estate.

But given that at this moment, in which there is no iBook with altivec, older powerbooks (even the 800/867Mhz models) are fine for most low to moderate use in DAWs.

And when it comes to music, I'd rather have a slower PowerBook with Altivec than a faster iBook without it.

/ek


I think you are wrong.
From the iBook page on Apple.com:

The world’s best-loved consumer portable gets an impressive makeover with a superfast PowerPC G4 processor with Velocity Engine

Velocity Engine = Altivec

Elektronkind
Dec 25, 2003, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by pjkelnhofer
I think you are wrong.
From the iBook page on Apple.com:

The world’s best-loved consumer portable gets an impressive makeover with a superfast PowerPC G4 processor with Velocity Engine

Ah yes, I forgot about the iBook G4.

Still, though, the lack of SuperDrive, DVI output (I know quite a few DVI PowerBook users who hook up Cinema Displays) and the propect of going from a 15" widescreen display down to a 14" normal format.

That, combined with smaller L2 cache of the iBook, would not lead me to believe that a current user of a 800Mhz or greater PowerBook would wish to trade up (or down, as it were) to that.

/ek

stockscalper
Dec 25, 2003, 07:31 PM
No way I'm trading my problem free TI for a white spotted overheated AL pos.

elgruga
Dec 25, 2003, 07:37 PM
Originally posted by ~Shard~


Dunno, thought my post was pretty clear on why I called it that, so I guess "marketing" wasn't the right word - sorry to tick you picky people off! ;)

Not at all ticked off - you are correct, but it seems a bit odd.

I think that the inventory people and the marketing people arent talking at Apple......?

Sabenth
Dec 25, 2003, 07:38 PM
Hmmm and is this just a test for apple to see if people want to do trades then i havent read the artical yet will do in a second

~Shard~
Dec 25, 2003, 10:07 PM
Originally posted by elgruga
Not at all ticked off - you are correct, but it seems a bit odd.

I think that the inventory people and the marketing people arent talking at Apple......?

This is a very good point - communication is key, and I wonder if this offer has something to do what that (or the lack thereof!)

kherdin
Dec 25, 2003, 10:30 PM
I think you are all missing another, somewhat hidden, advantage from this move for Apple. The more old computers it gets out of the world, the more people will buy new computers. In other words, if there are less used PB's being sold on eBay etc due to this, it is more likely that some of the potential buyers of those used PB's might instead buy new ones from Apple.

Look at it this way, Joe has an old PB, he wants to upgrade to a new one, he can do either:

a) sell his old one to Fred, who is now happy with it, and buy himself a new one from Apple

or

b) give his old one to Apple, to get a discount on a new one, and Fred, finding no used PB to buy for himself, instead also buys himself a new laptop from Apple

Now, which of these do you think Apple would prefer?

elgruga
Dec 25, 2003, 11:44 PM
Alright. But wtf are they going to do with a pile of used PB's? Can you really repair warranty problems with used parts?
I think not.

So, Apple is buying back its own machines and dumping them in order to stimulate sales. Yes, I can see it.

Give the machines as a tax break to schools etc. Cool.

Can anyone smell G5 powerbook in all this?

Clear the inventory of old models and roll out the new G5!

My credit card cringes in anticipation!

Oh, btw:

Does anyone need any turkey leftovers......?

zim
Dec 26, 2003, 12:21 AM
i would love to trade in my 667 pb, it has suffered from the heat and bad paint issue that lots of others did, i love the computer regardless. i wonder, and i doubt, if they would offer this to educational purchases.

the only thing that i wish is that apple would be a little upfront about this program, letting everyone in on the action vs keeping it virtually silent.

idkew
Dec 26, 2003, 12:47 AM
i doubt apple will be dumping these machines, as they only will accept ones in good condition.

why would they add this stipulation if the book were destined for destruction?

MidnightPoser
Dec 26, 2003, 10:01 AM
Of course they can use refurbished parts, al maufactures of drives does so with defective drives - remember that those G4 machines should be in good conditions to be able to trade in.

Elektronkind
Dec 26, 2003, 10:15 AM
You guys are already talking about this as if it were already-announced fact.

It's funny how a cautiously stated rumor slowly morphs into gospel in these forums.

/ek

merges
Dec 26, 2003, 10:17 AM
Originally posted by elgruga
And what the hell will Apple do with a bunch of 1 - 2 year old powerbooks?

Parts? Recycling?

tdvorak
Dec 26, 2003, 10:56 AM
I called Apple to get in on this deal. They told me they hadn't heard of any deal and that they NEVER would give 700.00 back for a new PowerBook.
So, you have any ideas on who I should call to talk to about this... 'cause if its not on Apples web-site they won't even discuss with you!
Tom

X_Ranger
Dec 26, 2003, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by tdvorak
I called Apple to get in on this deal. They told me they hadn't heard of any deal and that they NEVER would give 700.00 back for a new PowerBook.
So, you have any ideas on who I should call to talk to about this... 'cause if its not on Apples web-site they won't even discuss with you!
Tom

See http://www.thinksecret.com/news/pbg4upgrade.html

crees!
Dec 26, 2003, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by X_Ranger
See http://www.thinksecret.com/news/pbg4upgrade.html

ThinkSecret isn't Apple's website ;)

ITR 81
Dec 26, 2003, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by pjkelnhofer
What did Apple do with my Premiere CD that got me $500 off FCP4? It is just a way to encourage people who were on the fence about getting new PB's to get one. I don't think we will suddenly be seeing hundreds of 500 MHz PB's in the refurb store...

They recycled them or went to charity.

More then likely thats what will happen to theses older PB or they will be given to charity orgs.

There is new school charity org. around here that just gave all our local school used copies of Premiere. They all went on big network of Macs for Mass Com. students.

They also had used refurbs from Gateway, Dell, IBM and Apple computers as well.

Not including refurbs of printers from Canon, Epson, and HP.

ITR 81
Dec 26, 2003, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by stockscalper
No way I'm trading my problem free TI for a white spotted overheated AL pos.

I actually haven't heard one person that has bought new 15 inch recently get spots.

So issue maybe already solved for new buyers.

My friend bought one a month ago and hasn't gotten any spots yet.

crees!
Dec 26, 2003, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by ITR 81
I actually haven't heard one person that has bought new 15 inch recently get spots.

So issue maybe already solved for new buyers.

My friend bought one a month ago and hasn't gotten any spots yet.

I heard this situation was already taken care of. I have a shipping box right here ready to go so in a couple days I'll send mine back to get repaired for this same problem. I actually had 2 spots then a 3rd one appeared, now a 4th one shaped in a line probably about 2 inches long has started to appear, though it's faint.

X_Ranger
Dec 26, 2003, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by crees!
ThinkSecret isn't Apple's website ;)

Yes, I know that. But there is an Apple contact number to participate in the promotion.

I thought tdvorak was looking for a way to contact Apple. I included the link to indicate where I got the information and to give credit to the source of the information in the first place.

Elektronkind
Dec 26, 2003, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by X_Ranger
Yes, I know that. But there is an Apple contact number to participate in the promotion.

I thought tdvorak was looking for a way to contact Apple. I included the link to indicate where I got the information and to give credit to the source of the information in the first place.

You should know that by now, if it isn't announced on apple's web site, it essentially does not exist.

Two RUMORS (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=rumor) sites carrying the same info does not necessarily mean that it's true... no matter how detailed the article may be. And up until if/when Apple does announce this, it is quite likely that the people on the phones haven't gotten the go-ahead to talk or even know about it.

crees!
Dec 26, 2003, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by Elektronkind
You should know that by now, if it isn't announced on apple's web site, it essentially does not exist.

Two RUMORS (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=rumor) sites carrying the same info does not necessarily mean that it's true... no matter how detailed the article may be. And up until if/when Apple does announce this, it is quite likely that the people on the phones haven't gotten the go-ahead to talk or even know about it.

Thank you ;)

tdvorak
Dec 26, 2003, 01:33 PM
I completely agree with what the poster above has said. It is entirely possible that the Apple store has no idea about this promotion, or if there is even a promotion.

I actually read about the rebate on Think Secret, and already have that phone number. I called there first, and the guy was kind of nasty about the whole thing. Like I was an idiot for even asking about a rebate. So I called 1-800-Apple and asked them, they also hadn't heard about it. So I also doubt that there is a rebate (at this point anyway).

I guess I'll wait and ask around at MacWorld.

Thomas

X_Ranger
Dec 26, 2003, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by tdvorak
I completely agree with what the poster above has said. It is entirely possible that the Apple store has no idea about this promotion, or if there is even a promotion.

I actually read about the rebate on Think Secret, and already have that phone number. I called there first, and the guy was kind of nasty about the whole thing. Like I was an idiot for even asking about a rebate. So I called 1-800-Apple and asked them, they also hadn't heard about it. So I also doubt that there is a rebate (at this point anyway).

I guess I'll wait and ask around at MacWorld.

Thomas

I think that you reached someone who knew nothing about the promotion (which happens with Apple reps a lot.

The promotion is real however. I contacted that number listed on Think Secret web site and I reached an Apple representative who was able to help me. I am looking at a shipping container that was sent to me the next say after contacting Apple.

The details are listed in my first post on this topic.

Try contacting that number again, maybe you get someone next time.

Good luck.

NeterAmonRa
Dec 26, 2003, 02:45 PM
Just got off the phone with the Level 2 rep at AppleCare. You can trade in your PB for one of three models:

* 15" PB with Combo Drive
* 15" PB with Super Drive
* 17" PB

Apple will sent you a box to return the old PB, once they have checked it out, they will ship you the new PB.

This is somewhat bittersweet ... I was hoping Apple would suprise us and announce a G5 PB on 1/6/2004. Does not seem likely now. :(

tdvorak
Dec 26, 2003, 02:57 PM
Who did you guys speak with at Apple? Like I said I called twice and did not get a very good outcome. I have a PB 500 and would be willing to trade it in?
Thomas

idkew
Dec 26, 2003, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by tdvorak
Who did you guys speak with at Apple? Like I said I called twice and did not get a very good outcome. I have a PB 500 and would be willing to trade it in?
Thomas

Are you unwilling to go the eBay way? You could sell it for upwards of $1,000-$1,500, depending on configuration.

You could take that $300 or so and buy an extra battery and power adaptor. Or AppleCare. Or an 120gb external HD, Digital Camera, Give it to me... ;)

barefeats
Dec 26, 2003, 08:39 PM
Rather than trade in your Gigabit PowerBook G4, why not sell it on Ebay, then buy a refurb AlumBook for $500 below retail with 1yr warranty? (Apple Hot Deals or Small Dog Electronics)

Net savings would be much better than Apple's trade in deal.

tdvorak
Dec 26, 2003, 08:49 PM
You know, I have purchased around 5 PowerBooks, from various companies through the years. I would go to the trouble of putting my 500mgh up for sale on ebay or sell it somehow, but frankly don't want to be bothered. If I could get an upgrade from Apple that's what I'd do. While I appreciate all of your suggestions, I would just rather handle this way. I would not consider buying a refurb, anyhow...
Thanks though
Tom

WM.
Dec 27, 2003, 12:41 AM
Originally posted by Rocketman
I wonder if this is related to the iBook G4 motherboard problems. Maybe this is a way to get MB's for replacements of bad iBooks cheaper or more customer friendly than any other option they have.

[...]

I would welcome a PBG4 MB as a sidegrade to a defective iBook G4 MB. It would be somewhat uncharacteristic of Apple to care that much but it would be sweet indeed.
No, the old TiBook motherboard is very different from the current iBook G4's. Everything from the system controller (Uni-North + KeyLargo vs. Intrepid) to the CPU (7400 vs. 7445) to the GPU (Rage 128/original Radeon vs. Radeon 9200) to the RAM (PC100/133 vs. DDR266) is much changed. Not to mention that the physical layouts are completely different--ports on the back vs. ports on the side; HD in the center vs. HD on the side; front-loading optical drive vs. side-loading optical drive (which does affect the mobo layout); PC Card slot vs. none; PCMCIA-style AirPort card slot vs. mini-PCI-style slot...the list goes on. I'm sure some components are the same (maybe the battery charging circuitry is similar, for example), but I doubt Apple regularly de-solders components from old mobos to put them on refurbished ones.

So I tend to agree that these old TiBooks will be used for service parts for those that will be covered under AppleCare for the next few years.

FWIW
WM

elgruga
Dec 27, 2003, 12:00 PM
Just to remind everyone who isnt sure of the veracity of this 'rumor' - Apple have done trade-ins before.
The 5300 was a dog that attracted all kinds of Apple activity from 7 year warranty to trade-ins for Wall Street, as they tried to get those things to the dumpster.

They didnt offer a very good deal then, either - I seem to remember $300 bucks off a Wallstreet? Maybe I'm wrong about that amount.

Trade-ins are for people who dont look at the sticker price....rich folks, I guess.

john123
Dec 27, 2003, 12:18 PM
There seems to be some confusion here regarding PowerBook models -- which I think is why some folks are thinking that the deal is a ripoff.

The Thinksecret article refers to "original and 'Gigabit Ethernet' G4 PowerBooks." "Gigabit Ethernet" is a model name -- not a characterization of whether your Ethernet port supports 1000BaseT.

In essence, they're talking about PowerBooks with processor speeds of 400 Mhz, 500 Mhz, 550 Mhz, or 667 Mhz. However, the 667 Mhz (DVI) is a different product from the 667 Mhz (Gigabit Ethernet) and thus -- if Thinksecret's report is correct -- would not qualify.

This also means that the 800 Mhz, 867 Mhz, and 1 Ghz PowerBooks would not qualify. I can't imagine that Apple would refuse your offer if you want to give them your newer PowerBook for $700, but I think this explains why some folks think that $700 would be a paltry compensation for their relatively new PowerBook.

Grimace
Dec 27, 2003, 12:55 PM
I didn't know "Gigabit ethernet" was a model name - thanks for that!

Why would they only want those specific Powerbooks? Couldn't they have said Gigabit and later notebooks apply?

john123
Dec 27, 2003, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by carletonmusic
I didn't know "Gigabit ethernet" was a model name - thanks for that!

Why would they only want those specific Powerbooks? Couldn't they have said Gigabit and later notebooks apply?

One theory for why they want PowerBook G4 versions 1 and 2 but not 3 and 4 might be that they'd like the older motherboards. The reason? People with AppleCare or people with PBs out of warranty who want to repair them. Given that this offer inspires some x% of PowerBook owners to upgrade who otherwise wouldn't, AND that it causes them to go through Apple as opposed to third party resellers, the real "cost" to Apple of these motherboards is far lower than $700. Major third party repair vendors charge $300 and up for motherboards for these older PowerBooks, so perhaps the desire and the need for these older parts that would be impractical to produce new is fueling this concept.

mian
Dec 27, 2003, 08:28 PM
Small Dog has some of the eligible powerbooks for sale from $800 to $1000, so $700 doesn't seem out of line to me.

themacolyte
Dec 28, 2003, 08:23 AM
I'm wondering, out of curiousity, how many of those quoting eBay values and calling this a marketing ploy, etc...

How many would walk right into a car dealership and trade their old car in on a new one without a second thought.

~Shard~
Dec 28, 2003, 10:02 AM
Originally posted by themacolyte
I'm wondering, out of curiousity, how many of those quoting eBay values and calling this a marketing ploy, etc...

How many would walk right into a car dealership and trade their old car in on a new one without a second thought.

The answer to your quote is no one - it seems like a pretty obvious answer, so I think you possibly worded your post wrong, as that didn't make much sense.

I think the people who call this a "marketing ploy", etc., are the ones who obviously analyze offers like this, are very "buyer-beware", and don't just jump into certain deals because they sound good - they analyze what's going on, the reasons for doing things, and especially the $$$ involved, without just blindly going along with deals.

As a result, I don't think anyone who thought this was a marketing ploy and have analyzed this situaiton would be so foolish as to walk into a dealership and trade in their old car on a new one without a second thought, because they are analytical, intelligent and cautious when it comes to the offer, the overall situation, and especially the money involved.

So the obvious answer to your question is, of course, no one. People who analyze offers/situations/$$$ values in one situation would not throw those intelligent tactics out the window for a larger purchase such as a vehicle - that would be foolish.

wdlove
Dec 28, 2003, 01:04 PM
I would be afraid to use eBay, too many risks. It would be great is Apple have a trade-in program for all their products. Just part of the procedure when purchasing a new Mac. I would trust purchasing a refurbished product from Apple.

john123
Dec 28, 2003, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by wdlove
I would be afraid to use eBay, too many risks. It would be great is Apple have a trade-in program for all their products. Just part of the procedure when purchasing a new Mac. I would trust purchasing a refurbished product from Apple.

The danger is a little higher for buyers rather than sellers. The seller receives the money before shipping the product, so the only major danger to the seller is the he/she gets "funny money" (e.g., fraudulent money orders, money from a hijacked PayPal account).

Still...I can't imagine that these older PowerBooks really are fetching that much money. I mean, if you think that a G4/400 is worth more than $700, and you assume that machine values are transitive, then by the time you ratchet up several models (400 --> 500 --> 550 --> 667 --> 667 DVI --> 800 --> 867 --> 1 Ghz), it would seem to me that you could fetch "almost new" prices for these more recent PowerBooks. And that makes no sense.

ezgetem
Dec 28, 2003, 09:30 PM
It's pretty amazing how "slowly" most of you guys trying to acknowledge the fact that this isn't a rumor anymore. And stop with the eBay thing. I hate eBay!!!
Anyhow, yesterday (sat. 12/27) I brought my PB to the Apple Store to fix my Combo drive(disc stuck in there), and I was just asking the Apple "genius bar-tender" about any special promotion going on. The guy turn around, grap a piece of hand out from a stack he has and said: "Yeah, here you go. This is new...but it doesnt apply to your Titanium PB. Too bad!". As soon, I read and told my friend...Dude!, I saw this on macrumors.com like 3 days ago, and it's amazing how it's so TRUE!.
I havent posted for a long time and this got me re-register and post again, just so we can all clear this out. It aint no rumor anymore. Don't believe me, run down to your Apple Store and find out.
Happy Holiday...may good Mac products come our way next year.

davidh_la
Dec 29, 2003, 06:58 PM
I have a 400mhz Pbook with minor "war damage"--couple minor nicks, the battery doesn't hold much charge anymore, etc. This is the answer I've been looking for as I didn't want to sell it on eBay and reap the bad karma later.

Question: can I get a fresh Applecare policy on this exchanged machine? I don't see why not...

pjkelnhofer
Dec 29, 2003, 08:29 PM
Originally posted by ezgetem
...Don't believe me, run down to your Apple Store and find out.
Happy Holiday...
Anyone manage to find it on the website yet?
I keep looking for it but no luck so far.

nellybly
Dec 30, 2003, 04:24 PM
I don't believe that there is anything about this on Apple.com, but I made the call to AppleCare, and there is an Airborne box on the way. The tech said up to a $700 credit, and I got the full amount. It is unclear whether any power cords, adaptors, manuals, or disks have to be returned with the unit. I will post back after I get the box.
I also get a refund on the remaining AppleCare I have on the PB.
Happy 2004 to all,
NB

contempt
Dec 31, 2003, 06:55 AM
I think this is reduce the resale value of the older laptops and is BS.

I sold my TiBook 500Mhz, DVD/CD Reader (not a burner), 512mb RAM, 30gig HD, NO Airport on ebay for $1200!!! And that was only a month ago. Now here comes Apple ruining it for the rest of you.

nellybly
Dec 31, 2003, 04:47 PM
I recevied the Aiorborne box and instructions today. All they want is the Powerbook and AC adaptor, in case anyone is interested.
Happy New Year,
NB

mahk
Jan 5, 2004, 11:42 AM
For those of you that may have taken advantage of the program ... how does the data transfer work?

Sounds like they expect you to send the machine back before you get the new one ... do you transfer your files to some temporary storage before the new one comes?

It would obviously be better if you had both machines for some period of time to use firewire target mode, but it sounds like this isn't how the program works. Can anyone confirm/deny?

nellybly
Jan 5, 2004, 12:09 PM
Yes, you would be without a computer for 10-15 days. The Tech suggested wiping the hard drive before sending the unit in, and installing only the software that came with it..
NB

PS I am having second thoughts about this, as I just saw 2 667's go for $1275 on ebay.

jaykk
Jan 19, 2004, 02:33 PM
I traded-in my not-so-in-good-condition PB G4 550 mhz for a brand new PB G4 1.25.. I couldn't be happier.. And total turn around time is less than week..Apple rep told me it will take 10-15 days, but i send in my pb on a Sat, i got my new pb by Wed. everything is overnight shipping.

I thought i will inform if anyone wants to trade in. And my powerbook is in not even a good condition - mainly the paint issue.

Edit : Also, the new pB didnt come with iLife, so i had to make use of Upgrade program, which is on its way.

I formated the hardisk before sending in. They just require PB, and power adapter. I removed all the instaleld RAM and swapped back my old Hardrive which came with.( I had 60gb 7200 rpm dive installed).

Did anyone of u upgraded Harddrive in a AL Pb 15 inch. 60gb 7200rpm is so fast, my 80gb disk seems like real slow.)

Toeknee
Jan 19, 2004, 07:11 PM
Not sure if anyone had posted this link but it explains this awesome deal http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=86643

zim
Jan 19, 2004, 07:50 PM
has anyone asked apple if educationally purchased laptops are included?

Toeknee
Jan 19, 2004, 07:54 PM
i dont think it matters. I think that you have to get the 15" or 17" at full price not at the edu discount... but what do i know :)

X_Ranger
Jan 19, 2004, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by zim
has anyone asked apple if educationally purchased laptops are included?

I asked. Apple said no.

zim
Jan 19, 2004, 09:07 PM
Originally posted by X_Ranger
I asked. Apple said no.

I should have been more specific, does it include laptops that were purchased through the ed store. I will eventually call, maybe, not 100% sure if I am interested yet.

Thanks for the replies.

kbrening
Jan 19, 2004, 10:50 PM
I don't completely understand the logic behind all of this, unless Apple is trying to unload a truckload of current PowerBook models to people who won't be offended when they introduce G5 POWERBOOKS IN THE COMING DAYS......

wdlove
Jan 20, 2004, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by X_Ranger
I asked. Apple said no.

I'm not at all suprised that it doesn't include those purchased with an educational discount. The end date of March 27th for this program is very curious.

fincher
Jan 20, 2004, 01:57 PM
I did the trade-in thing. It's a great deal since I had the 400Mhz model. Apple made it easy and the turnaround was snappy. Apple sent me a box on Wednesday morning and they had my TiBook on Thursday morning...billed my credit card on Friday and I got it Monday morning. Apple covered all shipping, too.

I can see why Apple chose not to formally promote this program. Maybe its a pilot for possible future programs. Whatever, its a good deal if you have one of the early TiBooks. Simple and no hassles.

jade
Jan 20, 2004, 05:10 PM
ibook g4 to become tibook g4...with a new 15" widescreen model? and reuse some components?

X_Ranger
Jan 20, 2004, 08:54 PM
Originally posted by kbrening
I don't completely understand the logic behind all of this, unless Apple is trying to unload a truckload of current PowerBook models to people who won't be offended when they introduce G5 POWERBOOKS IN THE COMING DAYS......

I was told by Apple that they need maintenance parts for the early G4s.

Someone else speculated that perhaps Apple needed the parts to cover Apple Care commitments on those models.

ideaguy
Jan 21, 2004, 03:09 AM
I can't believe I actually read through everyone of these posts relating to the PB trade up. I suspect that this list is chock full o' teens, nuts or people relatively new to Apple. The opinions of Apple's motives and validity of the offer chucked about are humorous, to say the least.

Apple doesn't use USED parts for warranty repairs. There are not many parts in a Powerbook that aren't supplied by a 3rd party. Apple has plenty of parts.
When Apple designs a product it is simple statistical math to determine a failure rate and then plan around that rate. Should there be some really bad math, they will have a hint of that while the machine is still being produced. Misinformation..... just amazing!

Refurbs are BRAND NEW machines. BY FEDERAL LAW Apple and every other manufacturer MUST state the condition of the machine when selling it. If the box was opened and returned, even without the machine being used, it has to be called REFURBISHED. It can't be sold as NEW, even though you and I know it is new for all intents and purposes. Sometimes there is the occasional whacko that buys a Mac and then for whatever reason returns it after using it for a week or whatever. Some Apple person will inspect it, replace missing manuals and whatever else to return the machine to new condition. Then they tape the box up and add it to the refurb inventory. Returned machines that Apple replaces with another are NOT RESOLD. If you have proof of something different, produce it!

This trade-up "could be" a test "but is probably" the best way to gather up a bothersome batch (to Apple) of machines. I have had 3 Ti Powerbooks in 3 years, which were all subsequent replacements for a logicboard retarded G3-PB - I had 4 boards replaced before Apple and I discussed how it seemed like bad business supporting my lumpy G3 PB. I made sure I had AppleCare which would have expired on the TiPB400 by now. Those that have 400Mhz PB's would be smart to give it back for the $700 trade-up.

If the deal was offered in Canada I would be all over it like ugly on an ape. Sadly it is not yet. My 550Mhz keeps chugging along but looks like it has been pulled in and out of my bag 1000's of times. Hmmmm, maybe that is because it has.

So how do I know what I know. A very close friend of mine works for Apple. When we chat about some of the answers I have read, beer sometimes can shoot from our noses from unexpected laughter. Some of the responses in this thread were hilarious AND SO WAY OFF THE MARK, if nothing else.

"Side-grade for a iBook".... oh that almost killed me. Liquid went down the wrong pipe on that one.

Marketing ploy??? Yah, the kings of creative markeing have to lower themselves to used car tactics. Maybe there is another sinister plot that we don't see yet in the refurbed 1984 commercial????

Give them to schools?? Really doubt it as schools are the one market that you don't want junk going to. This is where students cut there teeth on computers and slow computers only leave longlasting negative impressions.

In short, Apple helps some forward thinking, early adopter Ti PB users get out of their lumpy laptops. Why does Apple need to know the serial number??? Because they know the batches of machine that are likely to fail. Many will never fail in those batches. Those that got the gem Ti's, which was most of us, can keep our TiPB's for another year and likely get just as much money selling privately then. There will likely be no paint left on it, the battery will only help the machine from being blown away in a stiff breeze and the display will be scratched and pitted within an inch of it's life. Geez, by then I coould probably fold my TiPb another way as it seems it is getting a little softer and more flexible with age.

Oh well.... I sort of enjoyed reading some of the weenie responses I touched on and I am envious of those that are able to take advantage of the deal.

In my eyes, Apple again has proved to me that they are listening to the market place and looking after their customers... well, at least the non-paranoid, clear thinking ones.

Oh and the Gigabit Ethernet isn't a model designation like 400, 500, 550 are models, as asserted by another posting in this thread. It was a logic board change in mid-production that created the name and the distinction. Few were built with the standard 10/100 Base T Ethernet port, logic board config. Gigabit capable machines started with the 550's and may have been available as custombuilt in the 500. According to everymac.com, the 400 didn't have it. Technologies torrent pace demonstrated early on in production.

Always remember and never forget this ONE SIMPLE TERM ..... "PEBCAK"

Problem Exists Between Chair And Keyboard!
Always!

fincher
Jan 21, 2004, 03:22 AM
What makes you think the early TiBooks were a "bothersome batch"? Just 'cause you got screwed? I had one of the original TiBooks, from the initial batch that had weak slot-loading drives. Apple fixed it pronto at no charge and this was a common issue. There have been more issues with the initial release of the Aluminum 15" this year!

I got 35 months use of a great machine and would still be using for several more if it weren't for this program. The TiBook was great. Lumpy? Don't think so.

ideaguy
Jan 21, 2004, 03:58 AM
Ok, lumpy might be overstated for the whole production run. I didn't say the whole batch was lumpy, I asserted that Apple likely was collecting the remaining lumpy ones from the batch. The BAD APPLES so to speak. From there they work up through the owners.

Don't get me wrong, I have loved every Mac I have ever owned, even the lumpy ones. Ever owned a PowerPC 6100 AV??
I was one of the first in my area to get a 400Mhz Ti. It was great until I had the same issue you had TWICE. The first time they replaced the drive, like they did yours. The second time they replaced the machine. The next machine (a 500) had a faulty logic board like my PB G3 did. They replaced the machine with a 550. For Free! The problem with owning cutting edge design and technology is there is a higher probability of issues that take time for a manufacturer to sort out.
I knew that going in and it doesn't stop me today from buying anything new or cool. That s the cost of admission for some.

I have nothing but the utmost of respect and admiration for Apple but I also know how many people had issues with their Ti PB's and what those issues were. The dealers in my area haven't hidden issues they deal with and the Apple Knowledge Base also tends to tell it like it is too. I'll bet 1000 people had the same issue with drives and another couple thousand had logic board issues with early TiPB's, likely up to the 550 series which was V3 or 4 Those thousands are probably insignificant in manufacturing terms and in the long run are to me also. Apple has always looked after me way beyond my expectations.

My current 550 had tiny issues compared to what earlier machines had. I am sure that the lumpiest of machines from the initial runs have been dealt with and this trade up program assures Apple that they get the last of them AND further satisfy existing Apple owners with the latest and greatest.

Oh, and I was never screwed. Quite the opposite. If my girlfriends were as nice to me as Apple has been.... well.... screwed isn't the word I would use.

As for the problems with the new Al PB's, I'd put some money on you being wrong about how many problems there are. I am almost certain that Apple has the defect rate in check by now and probably had it worked out in the 550's or 667's.

It's great that you got 35 months out of yours. I didn't but they have still been fantastic machines. I take mine outside into the real world everyday and they get used pretty hard. So considering that, my next 10 laptops WILL be an Apple of some form. If they break, Apple looks after them.

Cheers

john123
Jan 21, 2004, 04:00 AM
Originally posted by ideaguy
I can't believe I actually read through everyone of these posts relating to the PB trade up. I suspect that this list is chock full o' teens, nuts or people relatively new to Apple. The opinions of Apple's motives and validity of the offer chucked about are humorous, to say the least.
What a snotty start to a post. I think I'll enjoy myself...

Apple doesn't use USED parts for warranty repairs. There are not many parts in a Powerbook that aren't supplied by a 3rd party. Apple has plenty of parts.
I'd like to know exactly what familiarity you have with Apple's supply of parts for older models of computers. Oh wait, that's right...you don't have any.

Additionally, the terms of the warranty that come with each and every PowerBook give Apple broad latitude and discretion when it comes to repair coverage of existing machines. They are under no obligation to provide you with a "new" replacement for a defective part. Furthermore, when it comes to whole motherboard replacements, used parts provide an inexpensive and effective option -- especially for motherboards that are no longer in mass production.

When Apple designs a product it is simple statistical math to determine a failure rate and then plan around that rate. Should there be some really bad math, they will have a hint of that while the machine is still being produced. Misinformation..... just amazing!
You have a rather obtuse understand of failure rates. There are failure rates (truly percentages) of parts within a batch, and then there are failure rates over time. The only totally accurate way you can measure failure rates over time is -- yep, you guessed it...with time. Without that empirical observation, no one will have "a hint of [problems] while the machine is still being produced." Furthermore, what you call "simple statistical math" involves some complex models and some statistical distributions (e.g., Weibull, Poisson, binomial) for which I'm sure you don't know the equations.

Refurbs are BRAND NEW machines. BY FEDERAL LAW Apple and every other manufacturer MUST state the condition of the machine when selling it. If the box was opened and returned, even without the machine being used, it has to be called REFURBISHED. It can't be sold as NEW, even though you and I know it is new for all intents and purposes. Sometimes there is the occasional whacko that buys a Mac and then for whatever reason returns it after using it for a week or whatever. Some Apple person will inspect it, replace missing manuals and whatever else to return the machine to new condition. Then they tape the box up and add it to the refurb inventory. Returned machines that Apple replaces with another are NOT RESOLD. If you have proof of something different, produce it!
What does this have to do with anything? What are you even talking about? We aren't talking about PowerBooks being sold as new. We are talking about parts being used to repair other used PowerBooks.

This trade-up "could be" a test "but is probably" the best way to gather up a bothersome batch (to Apple) of machines.
For what purpose -- posterity? LOL...

So how do I know what I know. A very close friend of mine works for Apple.
Ohhhh THIS LINE. The same line we read at all those rumor sites. So tell me -- since your friend is so close to you, and since he is so high at Apple as to be familiar with business practices and part inventories....why can't he help you out with that PB550 tradein you wanted to do? Seems that doing a tradein over a border shouldn't be a big issue for your powerful and informed friend.

When we chat about some of the answers I have read, beer sometimes can shoot from our noses from unexpected laughter.
If you're suggesting that you have beer rolling around in your head, maybe that explains why your post was so belligerent and yet so poorly argued.

Why does Apple need to know the serial number??? Because they know the batches of machine that are likely to fail.
Errr, or because the PowerBook G4 (DVI) and later models are not technically eligible for the tradein program, and the serial number is an easy way for Apple to distinguish which model a customer has (customers, with varying levels of technical savvy, may or may not know whether they have an original PowerBook G4 or a PowerBook G4-Gigabit Ethernet model). The serial number allows Apple to tell less savvy customers that their computer is "too new" to qualify for the tradein program, although I would be interested to know whether anyone has actually tried to trade in a DVI PowerBook or a 867/1Ghz PowerBook...

Oh and the Gigabit Ethernet isn't a model designation like 400, 500, 550 are models, as asserted by another posting in this thread. It was a logic board change in mid-production that created the name and the distinction. Few were built with the standard 10/100 Base T Ethernet port, logic board config. Gigabit capable machines started with the 550's and may have been available as custombuilt in the 500. According to everymac.com, the 400 didn't have it. Technologies torrent pace demonstrated early on in production.
Wrong. "Gigabit Ethernet" is the term Apple uses to refer to the 2nd generation of PowerBook G4s (those that sported processor speeds of 550 and 667, although as I noted in an earlier post, it is important to differentiate between the 667-Gigabit Ethernet model and the 667-DVI model). If you'd even bothered to do a search on the Apple support site, you'd have known this. Also, there was no "custombuilt" option to add gigabit ethernet capabilities to the 500. Proof of the existence of "Gigabit Ethernet" as a model name and not just a feature is at the following link:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=88212

Always remember and never forget this ONE SIMPLE TERM ..... "PEBCAK"

Problem Exists Between Chair And Keyboard!
Always!
I prefer, "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt." (Abraham Lincoln)


This is supposed to be a forum of mutual support and clean communication, and this thread was that until you showed up. Coming in here, blasting everyone, and talking about your beersnot is uncool -- ESPECIALLY when you haven't even done your research to know what you're talking about.

ideaguy
Jan 21, 2004, 05:54 AM
Originally posted by john123

What a snotty start to a post. I think I'll enjoy myself...

Thank you and knock yourself out......

Apple doesn't use USED parts for warranty repairs. ... SNIP.... Apple has plenty of parts.

I'd like to know exactly what familiarity you have with Apple's supply of parts for older models of computers. Oh wait, that's right...you don't have any.

Additionally, the terms of the warranty that come with each and every PowerBook give Apple broad latitude and discretion when it comes to repair coverage of existing machines. They are under no obligation to provide you with a "new" replacement for a defective part. Furthermore, when it comes to whole motherboard replacements, used parts provide an inexpensive and effective option -- especially for motherboards that are no longer in mass production.

My 30 Macs and 15+ years of dealing with Apple is my EXACT familiarity with Apple Parts. I know because many of my not so old Macs can't get used parts from Apple if I need to get parts. More often than not, used parts are an option that the dealer offers, sometimes at the request of Apple but it has always been a option to the customer... or so has been my experience. But really, my experience should not be replaced for yours. There comes a certain point when Apple doesn't support the part supply for their machines. This too is another simple formula that deal with a range of inputs. Yes I am painfully familiar with the warranty terms and KNOW that there were no used parts used or the Apple dealers would have to disclose such when I pick it up.... even if the Warranty states they might or can or will use whatever parts. I don't live in the US but I am very familiar with a manufacturers obligations in Canada.

When Apple designs a product it is simple statistical math to determine a failure rate and then plan around that rate. ... snip.....
Misinformation..... just amazing!

You have a rather obtuse understand of failure rates. There are failure rates (truly percentages) of parts within a batch, and then there are failure rates over time. The only totally accurate way you can measure failure rates over time is -- yep, you guessed it...with time. Without that empirical observation, no one will have "a hint of [problems] while the machine is still being produced." Furthermore, what you call "simple statistical math" involves some complex models and some statistical distributions (e.g., Weibull, Poisson, binomial) for which I'm sure you don't know the equations.

Yup, you are right, I don't know the equations but feel free to lay them out if you want. My point is still valid. My simplified assertion was Apple and their manufacturers know up front what to expect and yes, time tells them whether they are right or wrong. Since it isn't the first product they have designed or manufactured, it becomes a relatively simple formula. Call my view what you want, it's not incorrect. Although manufacturing theory is a science, it isn't a new science or even rocket science.

Refurbs are BRAND NEW machines
.... SNIP........
Returned machines that Apple replaces with another are NOT RESOLD. If you have proof of something different, produce it!

What does this have to do with anything? What are you even talking about? We aren't talking about PowerBooks being sold as new. We are talking about parts being used to repair other used PowerBooks.

Read the list of early tirades! You will pick up on the comment about refurbs.

This trade-up "could be" a test "but is probably" the best way to gather up a bothersome batch (to Apple) of machines.
For what purpose -- posterity? LOL...

I may have missed the punchline but....
No.... duh! To get the older, increasingly more expensive to fix machines out of the mix. As the machine get further past End Of Life parts are get harder to stock and if they are using used parts the statistical reality that the part will fail is higher than a new one...... geeez, it seems crystal clear to me why they will trade them up. SO THEY DON"T HAVE TO FIX THEM...

So how do I know what I know. A very close friend of mine works for Apple.

Ohhhh THIS LINE. The same line we read at all those rumor sites. So tell me -- since your friend is so close to you, and since he is so high at Apple as to be familiar with business practices and part inventories....why can't he help you out with that PB550 tradein you wanted to do? Seems that doing a tradein over a border shouldn't be a big issue for your powerful and informed friend.

Not the sharpest spoon in the drawer are you? I wrote TWICE I was in Canada, where there is no such program. A trade in over the border is an issue and Apple doesn't work that way. Remember the serial number??? They know where the machine lives. They are watching you too!

When we chat about some of the answers I have read, beer sometimes can shoot from our noses from unexpected laughter.
If you're suggesting that you have beer rolling around in your head, maybe that explains why your post was so belligerent and yet so poorly argued.


Yah that is what I was suggesting. Beer is rolling around in my head. Bounces off me and sticks to you...... 8-P


Why does Apple need to know the serial number??? Because they know the batches of machine that are likely to fail.
Errr, or because the PowerBook G4 (DVI) and later models are not technically eligible for the tradein program, and the serial number is an easy way for Apple to differentiate between the various models whereas consumers, with varying levels of technical savvy, may or may not know whether they have an original PowerBook G4 or a PowerBook G4 (Gigabit Ethernet) model.

Errrrr.... huh, what?? a PB owner that doesn't know the basic model number of their own machine?? Oh Puhleeese!
Yes I suppose that they use the serial numbers for the reason you mentioned but the serial number has a wealth of information tied to it that helps Apple screen which machines they will take back, apart from the condition. Please make sure to look for the words "may have been" in the next comment I made.
I thought I was pretty clear about my understanding about what was eligible and what isn't.... but thanks ever so much for clearing it up even more.
I don't know a single Powerbook owner that didn't know the model they owned. Like a Porsche or BMW owner that didn't remember they had a Carrera or a M Series. Not frickin likely. And I know whack of PB owners. Or is that passle of owners.... really, who knows?


Oh and the Gigabit Ethernet isn't a model designation like 400, 500, 550 are models, as asserted by another posting in this thread. It was a logic board change in mid-production that created the name and the distinction. Few were built with the standard 10/100 Base T Ethernet port, logic board config. Gigabit capable machines started with the 550's and may have been available as custombuilt in the 500. According to everymac.com, the 400 didn't have it. Technologies torrent pace demonstrated early on in production.
Wrong. "Gigabit Ethernet" is the term Apple uses to refer to the 2nd generation PowerBooks (those that sported processor speeds of 550 and 667). If you'd even bothered to do a search on the Apple support site, you'd have known this. Also, there was no "custombuilt" option to add gigabit ethernet capabilities to the 500. Proof of the model name "Gigabit Ethernet":
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=88212

Ya sure ok........ I didn't look there but I used a source that is as reliable and I added a "possible custom built" caveat as the source I used provided the same.

My assertion was and is that GB Ethernet isn't a Model desigination... because it isn't. I never said that there was a Custom Built option for GB Ethernet, I just said that there could be an earlier model that was a custom build that could contain something that isn't part of the standard build.

Always remember and never forget this ONE SIMPLE TERM ..... "PEBCAK"

Problem Exists Between Chair And Keyboard!
Always!
I prefer, "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt." (Abraham Lincoln)

CAN I GET AN AMEN, SISTER!



[B]This is supposed to be a forum of mutual support and clean communication, and this thread was that until you showed up. Coming in here, blasting everyone, and talking about your beersnot is uncool -- ESPECIALLY when you haven't even done your research to know what you're talking about.


Whatever..... report the post then. I didn't swear, my comments are clean, albeit sharp they are on point and they are also backed up by facts. I posted a URL, but if you want the specific details, again fill your boots!

G4 400 from Everymac.com
(make sure to read the first * at the bottom of each page..... the possibility of custom built? )
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powerbook_g4/stats/powerbook_g4_500.html

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powerbook_g4/stats/powerbook_g4_550.html

Beersnot happens and although I agree completely it is uncool, it is an occupational hazard of having a good sense of humor and posts from weenies to read while relaxing with a bevie. So sue me! To be perfectly honest I didn't write with blasting anyone in mind and if any readers felt blasted, please accept my apologies. As for you kind sir, relax, it will be ok.

Obtuse huh? Nah!

And before we get our panties all twisted up........ oh never mind.

john123
Jan 21, 2004, 06:24 AM
Originally posted by ideaguy

Rather than delving into quotes of quotes of quotes, which borders on unreadable, I'll respond to the highlights here. In general, your original post was downright rude and arrogant...which is bad in its own right, but when it's combined with factual inaccuracies, extremely poorly crafted arguments, and illogical statements, that makes it all the worse.

(1) Your "30 Macs and 15+ years of dealing with Apple" doesn't tell you a darn thing about parts.

Your very next line, in fact, supported my theory; you stated: "many of my not so old Macs can't get used parts from Apple if I need to get parts." That supports my idea that the tradein program is a great way to get some older parts for repairs.

I'm not going to comment on Apple-Canada because I don't know what your warranty terms are, but here in Apple-US, for repairs, they certainly can use used parts in repairs. It's in black-and-white in the warranty card that comes with PowerBooks.


(2)Regarding failure rates, no, it is not a simple formula. New chips, new architecture, new design, and the like will alter -- for better or for worse -- the lifespan of any product over an older version. This is just common sense.


(3) Why would Apple want to get "older, increasingly more expensive to fix machines out of the mix"? From a business standpoint, this makes little sense. A PowerBook G4/400 owner who bought AppleCare has coverage expiring this year, and anyone who didn't buy AppleCare for the original PowerBook models or the Gigabit Ethernet models is out of warranty...meaning that repairs to those PowerBooks will be at considerable expense to those users...which is profit in Apple's pocket. Profit margin on service is quite high, if you weren't aware...


(4) Regarding your tradein, I referenced your being in Canada. My point was (and if you'd actually read what I said it would have been clear) that if your friend is such a bigshot at Apple, it's pretty logical assume he could take care of you one way or another. Unless you don't really have a bigshot friend at Apple...


(5) That you don't know "a single PowerBook owner that didn't know the model they owned": with your people skills, I'm suspecting you don't know that many people. I did tech support for a couple years, and I assure you, MOST folks who owned PowerBooks couldn't tell you what specific model or even what speed their machine was. Heck, even you, the self-proclaimed expert, still don't understand the model names (discussion below).

My sister owns a DVI PowerBook, but I guarantee you she doesn't know that. I find models interesting, but for most people, it's just a machine on which to do work.


(6) Will you please look at the freaking Apple link for the model name? On all of the above issues, there is at least some room for debate -- but on the model issue, it's sitting there IN BLACK AND WHITE. That is how Apple refers to those computers...not by processor speed, but by those designations. Sorry bub, but whatever you read at everymac.com simply doesn't matter since APPLE BUILT THE POWERBOOKS SO WHATEVER MODEL NAMES THEY GIVE THEM ARE THE MODEL NAMES THEY HAVE. (Just think about it...if I put up a website and referred to the 400Mhz PowerBook as Gwen Stefani, does that make Gwen Stefani the model name? No...)

For reference, the models of the PowerBook G4 computers, by model name, are the following -- all publicly posted on Apple's site. I am including processor speeds on some models for clairty, although they are not part of the Apple product nomenclature:
PowerBook G4 (original) (includes 400 and 500 Mhz)
PowerBook G4 (Gigabit Ethernet) (includes 550 and 667 Mhz)
PowerBook G4 (DVI) (includes 667 and 800 Mhz)
PowerBook G4 (1Ghz/867Mhz) (processor speeds obvious)
PowerBook G4 (17-inch) (processor speed 1Ghz)
PowerBook G4 (12-inch) (processor speed 867Mhz)
PowerBook G4 (12-inch DVI) (processor speed 1Ghz)
PowerBook G4 (15-inch FW 800) (processor speeds 1Ghz and 1.25Ghz)
PowerBook G4 (17-inch 1.33Ghz) (processor speed obvious)

ideaguy
Jan 21, 2004, 08:28 AM
You win John123.....

Your debating prowess is ..........
boring.

1) Experience is always valuable. You don't have to recognize that. It doesn't matter to me. I have been lucky with repairs, except for my Powerbooks, but when I have repaired an older Mac, used parts wasn't a consideration over third party new part with a warranty - and cheaper.

If a motherboard goes on one of my G3-266's, you think Apple would like to sell me a used or even new motherboard rather than sell me a new machine???
Hey maybe Apple has some 6100 Av boards kicking around still?

Aftermarket part suppliers would eat Apple's lunch all day long when it comes to retail parts costs, because Apple simply isn't in the retail parts business. I can buy a newer, bigger, faster hard drive for less than half what Apple charges - and both parties will go to IBM or similar for the drive. The same goes for RAM. I need a new board, I might as well get a third party MB or LB complete with faster, more current features. I can't think of brand names right this second but I know that if I had an older G3 Powerbook, buying used parts would be throwing good money after bad.

Finally there is the question of just how many Powerbooks 400 to 667's are left in basic warranty, even Applecare. I suspect it isn't that many and that is why I believe Apple is making their offer now. Not because they need parts but because the users of thise machines realize they are way behind the curve and Apple saw an opportunity to limit their exposure on repairs and maximize their new product sales in one transaction.


2) It is simple concept, or at least I am capable or I guess in your opinion, incapable of seeing it in simple terms. I break complex themes into simple and easy to understand concepts all day long. If you don't see that or agree, either I didn't do what I say I do or you don't get it. Oh well.

3) Since no one knows why Apple does what they do, I could only speculate that based on my own experience, Apple doesn't find fixing, supporting or dealing with those machines nearly as profitable as it would new trade ups. Paying $700 US for a machine that likely didn't cost a lot more than that to manufacture makes sense. One catastrophic event with these laptops can easily costs over $700 to fix it at retail. Each logic board Apple replaced for me was billed at $1200 CDN. I had 4 done. A screen at $1300. To me the whole idea seems very simple and plausible. But these are only opinions. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I have had owned three G4's PB's and if I had to pay out of my pocket to repair them it would have cost nearly as much as two new machines. That wouldn't make me want to serously consider not buying a new one, matbe switching. As the costs are relative back to manufacturing, supporting/repairing these older G4 laptops more than one time starts costing everybody money, including Apple. They design them to last, not to fix them, although they are seemingly simple to repair. Apple isn't in the used parts or repair business. Dealers might be but Apple does it because they maintain control on profit margins by providing the service, most often supplied by a third party. My arguement is about why they might be wanting them back. Don't agree? OK!

4) Your #4 comment isn't even cool but expected I suppose. Since you won't comment on other Canadian Apple issues, why be a d-wad about why I can't get a trade up. THEY DON"T HAVE THE %$#@ PROGRAM HERE. Hey McFly!? And even though I am well connected here with Apple people, that type of decision isn't made here. I can get a First Family Discount once a year which is likely close to the trade amount but that isn't what the point was. Again, the program isn't available here. I get OSX copies for free and other NFR perks but machines are a different animal. Again very uncool comment.

5) I would expect that experience with users from people that work with a PC and don't know that there is more than one web browser. But in my experience Mac users, especially the users I know are different and these users I know all know some distinguishing characteristic of their machine that helps me know what it is. I simply don't agree with you.
Also, people who live in glass houses pal.....!

Look, the Mac users I know might be a little more knowledgeable about their tools than the people that you helped as a tech support agent. I work in advertising and design where Mac is "THE" tool and your tool is like Snap On wrenches to mechanic, you simply know it is a 3/8 socket or a 9mm box wrench. I can't explain why, but we do.

Maybe Apple markets Macs differently here but the machines have always been referred to by Family Name (PowerMac, PowerBook, iMac, etc) and then Model, usually something distinctive and non technical like 400 or 233 or 1 Ghz or 17" or 2Ghz DP, and then possibly by configuration anomily. Even in your own list, Gigabit Ethernet makes ONE appearance, as it does anywhere else I have seen the complete family of Apple products listed.

6) I have just looked at the Apple Support site and found a PDF
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=50120 that refers to the PowerBook as Gigabit Ethernet as a Family but no reference as a Model after the 550MHz machine, which was my original point. It isn't referred to by the Gigabit term here as it would be like adding 4 cyl or V8 after the car's name. Really a foregone conclusion that after the 550 the PowerBook only came with one new type of Ethernet capability, Gigabit. All the rest since then are referred to as PowerBook XXX.
So your sister doesn't know she has a Powerbook 667 or 800? Lots of people didn't know that there was a Wallstreet or Lombard or Pismo G3 PB, but most know that their machine is 300, 366, 400's.

So, I would call this a technical tie. What we have here is a BORING argument of semantics.

Well John123, like I said, you can win this one. Knowing what I know I don't care anymore and really need to get some real work done. I hope that you have a better day.

john123
Jan 21, 2004, 01:26 PM
Simply unbelievable. When I show someone evidence in black and white, from the horse's mouth -- and they still argue -- I know that I'm wasting my time.

As a sidenote, you'd think even ASIDE from that that it would be common sense that speed -- while sometimes a distinguishing characteristic of a model, does not necessarily do the job (e.g., the case of the two 667 PowerBooks). For many years, Macs have been referred to as things like "beige," "blue and white," "Sawtooth," "mirror door," and the like...all at Apple's choice. The PowerBook G4 is a family...with models falling into the classes I described above. Any further sub-separations are just differences in technical specifications within a model. Call Apple and ask them...they'll tell you the same thing.

[EDIT] Or heck, rather than calling Apple, just check out the web site:
http://www.apple.com/powerbook/
Look at the right side, at the section that says, and I quote:
Think big back at the office
All three PowerBook G4 models support DVI output.

Hmmm, THREE current models...just as I described in my post above. And one of the models (the 15-inch FW800) comes in one of TWO speeds -- 1Ghz or 1.25Ghz.

Proof positive....


But more importantly, you're a rude and arrogant fellow who has no respect for others and who can't admit when he's wrong. It's a shame that people like you poison Macrumors for the rest of us.

jar
Jan 28, 2004, 05:22 PM
I just got off the phone with Apple. I wanted to take advantage of the trade-in program, but my original TiBook was rejected. It has a very small dent in the lid (about 1/8" long and very slightly depressed, courtesy of a careless TSA inspector -- I have to point it out to people or they don't see it). Otherwise my PowerBook is in perfect shape; no case problems, no bad pixels in the display, never any trouble with the DVD drive, not even any paint flaking off. But according to the Product Specialist I was discussing this with, that dent counts as "accidental damage" and disqualifies my PB from the trade-in program.

I was surprised; I've read reports of people sending in machines with paint flaking off, serious scratches, bad hinges, etc. with no complaint. The Apple rep agreed that was true; and went on to say that he'd just come from a meeting on this subject, and that Apple would be getting in touch with many of the owners who sent in their PowerBooks to advise them that their trade-in machines didn't qualify!

Now I'm curious: Those of you who have sent in your trade-in PowerBooks, have you actually gotten the $700 credit Apple promised?

john123
Jan 28, 2004, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by jar

Now I'm curious: Those of you who have sent in your trade-in PowerBooks, have you actually gotten the $700 credit Apple promised?

I know someone who has. It's not a "credit" that is issued; rather, it comes off the bottom-line charge for your machine. So if you order the low-end 15", you are charged $1299 + tax.

I suspect that the guy told you they'd get in touch with other people to make you feel better. It would be quite a hassle and probably too much expense for Apple to deal with retroactively telling people to send their computers back.

Why don't you call tomorrow and ask to talk with a supervisor?

fincher
Jan 28, 2004, 09:09 PM
I got the full $700, which was deducted from the full price. $2599 less the $700 = $1899 + tax. Apple covered ALL shipping. My TiBook did not have any dents or dings, nor paint scratches. It did have the white carbon worn a bit on the lower left, but all else was fine.

rtdunham
Jan 28, 2004, 09:33 PM
nahh, no you don't!
:eek:

rtdunham
Jan 28, 2004, 10:13 PM
>"So how do I know what I know. A very close friend of mine works for Apple...Oh well.... I sort of enjoyed reading some of the weenie responses"
============
You are very sure of yourself. :rolleyes:

I'm reminded of a couple quotes, if i may:

1) "Keep the company of those who seek the truth, and run from those who have found it."
-Vaclav Havel

2) "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
-Bertrand Russell

So you have a good friend who works for apple. Assume for a moment that apple has 30,000 employees (I pulled that out of thin air) each of whom has what, five close friends? You are then one of 150,000 people with access to this special insight that the rest of us must be without. It's a burden.

I suspect you'll generate some heated responses from others here. I'd just urge you to wait maybe a day, re-read your post for tone and attitude, and then lighten up! You wanta keep that apple employee a friend, after all...

peace
terry