iPhone thief takes my iPhone in while my friend is working at Apple store

[nervouschimp]

I thought I would share my story of my friend, who works in the apple store, getting handed my wife's stolen iPhone for re-activation:

So my house was robbed while my wife and I slept back in may. It was a smash-n-grab type job, and my wife's purse and iPhone were stolen in the incident. Needless to say, it freaked us out, lots. We immediately called AT&T and had the iPhone's IMEI number blacklisted. We also provided the serial number of the iPhone to the police.

About a week later, a man brought my wife's iphone into the local Apple store (Salt Lake), with plans to have apple bypass the pass-code, and reactivate the phone for him. He walked up to the genius bar and handed the iPhone to an apple employee. That employee happened to be a friend of ours. It didn't take her long to figure out the iPhone belonged to us, since my wife had set one of our wedding pictures as the background image. She immediately called my wife, and my wife told her that we had just been robbed, and that the iPhone was stolen.

The first thing our concerned friend did is copy down the man's driver's license info, and then inform the man that the iPhone he was in possession of was stolen property, and could not be re-activated. Then, her superiors decided they would have no further involvement, and allowed the man to leave with our iPhone. Our friend then gave the man's personal info to her manager, and we were told that our detective would have to contact their security guy to get the man's info.

Our detective is actually way cool, and was more than willing to contact Apple, as he wanted any leads that might help him grab the person(s) responsible for the robbery of our home. At first Apple told our detective that no personal info on the man had been recorded, but after a little pressure, they did admit that our friend had indeed submitted the man's identity to her management, but if our detective wanted the man's identity, he would have to issue a subpoena to Apple's legal department. Frustrated by Apple's complete unwillingness to cooperate, our detective decided to push forward, and went to the DA for a subpoena, informing us that Apple had basically just stalled the investigation by several weeks, because the DA is extremely busy and it would take that long just to get the subpoena.

Well, the detective called this morning to let us know that Apple had sent him info finally: My info. They sent him MY freaken info. My name and number. Now almost 2 months, and a subpena later, their incompetent legal and security teams send the detective the plaintiff's info. Stupid, Stupid.

This goes to show that not even an amazing stroke of luck like having your stolen iphone handed to a friend working at the Apple store can get your precious device returned to you, and thanks to Apple, my case is now cold. Thanks, Apple.

And what if the man in possession of the iPhone was not involved in the robbery? I don't care. My friend told him it was stolen in a robbery, and he kept it anyway. If he bought a still password-protected-with some strange couple on the home screen-iPhone, and for a suspicious price off craigslist, then screw him, he should know better.

Now my detective is really annoyed, and I think it's a matter of principle now. Even though any hope getting our phone back or solving our robbery is long gone, our detective is frustrated enough with Apple, that he is going to take whatever measures are necessary.

I will post back with the final outcome.

Thanks to my friend at the Apple store who tried to help us.

[slicecom]

Wow, stories like this make me so mad! :mad: I hope the robbers and the guy who kept the phone get what's coming to them.

[arkitect]

How curious… people had lots of bad luck with apartment break-ins around April/May it seems — and then Apple "refusing" to cooperate with the police after a "lucky" break when the thief walks into the Apple store. *cough*
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=5884975#post5884975

Coincidence? :confused:

[tobyg]

Wow. Interesting first post! Welcome to the forums.

Anyway, why didn't your friend just write down the info for you? And at that point, as a friend, that's when she should step up and call the cops on her own. At least that's what I would have tried to do.

You're right about the craigslist part. If he isn't the robber but bought it off of craigslist or something and saw the strange wedding picture, screw him too. He's just as accountable for buying stolen goods as the person who stole it in the first place. There is a chance the guy purchased it without seeing it, maybe from eBay or something. But the fact that he took it and left seems to indicate he knew he was doing something wrong.

Good luck with your case.

[sibruk]

I'm just waiting for somebody to say "pics or it didn't happen"...

Seriously though, that's shocking. Have you managed to get the cost of the iPhone back from your home contents insurance or anything?

Being robbed is a life changing moment. You suddenly don't even feel safe in your own home. I hope you are managing to get on with life.

[sunfast]

No wonder your user name has nervous in it! Sorry to hear about the break in.

I support Apple not giving out information to easily but they shouldn't have stalled that long. Plus, they should be allowed to confiscate stolen goods presented to them. I'm surprised your friend didn't leak the guys details to you.

As well as remote wipe - we need remote location via GPS. That'd give 'em a shock when the feds come through the window! (I appreciate yours is 1st Gen and therefore no GPS)

[nervouschimp]

I'm just waiting for somebody to say "pics or it didn't happen"...

Seriously though, that's shocking. Have you managed to get the cost of the iPhone back from your home contents insurance or anything?

Being robbed is a life changing moment. You suddenly don't even feel safe in your own home. I hope you are managing to get on with life.

No, we found out the hard way that our policy does not cover theft.

[gnasher729]

Nice story, but we will file it under "fiction". Also, we will file it under "badly researched" fiction.

[nickspohn]

UGH, the beginning started out so good and went down hill. God, if i was your friend working at Apple i would of called you and had you come down in person and see this loser. Then beat him over the head.

Goodluck though.


Then again, this is hard to believe. The OP just joined today...

[.Andy]

Very similar story to one posted yesterday....

Someone broke into my apartment and stole my MacBook last April, and I filed a report with the police but never thought I'd see or hear of it again. But in June, I got an automatically generated email from Apple that my computer had been brought it to the Apple store for repair! I guess since I was registered as the original owner my email was still in their database system. I was thrilled! I called the store, they said I had to tell the police and that they would deal with the police. So I did, and from there it has all gone downhill.

The police said Apple was refusing to give them the laptop. So they got a search warrant and took a posse to the store threatening to arrest the entire staff for possession of stolen property if my computer was not turned over to them immediately. They got my computer. But they can't return it to me until they have completed their investigation which involves arresting the person who brought the computer in for repair (again, for possession of stolen property) and questioning that person. And herein lies the trouble: Apple is stonewalling the police and refusing to release the information. Yes a subpoena was delivered to Apple a month ago. I have tried to get involved myself, to see if there is anyone I can talk to about this and get the ball rolling again, but everyone I talk to at apple says they can't help me and only the police can talk to the legal department. When I point out that the police have been talking to the legal dept and get nowhere, I'm told that there's nothing I can do. This is so frustrating!!!!

To add to the insult, we're talking about a breaking and entering - a pretty serious crime. Someone broke into our apartment at night while I, my husband and my son were sleeping. This is scary and I can't understand why the company would want to hinder the investigation. The chances that the police are going to get anywhere with this are very small now and I am upset that they were not allowed to immediately question the only person who might be able to lead them to the thief.

Finally, when I went into the store myself, I was told that it was a good thing the police already had my computer because company policy requires staff to return property to the person who has brought it in if they come to get it, EVEN IF THEY ARE AWARE THAT IT IS STOLEN PR0PERTY. Why on earth would Apple privilege a "customer" who has bought stolen property over a customer who bought their product at full retail value???

Does anyone have any ideas of who I can talk to about this and how to get things rolling again?

[arkitect]

Very similar story to one posted yesterday....

Correct…
So it is either a piece of fiction… or Apple have some strange store policies.

Hummm. I wonder which one? ;)

[tobyg]

Nice story, but we will file it under "fiction". Also, we will file it under "badly researched" fiction.

That's just about as close as you can get to saying "pics or it didn't happen" without actually saying it! Heh.

Yeah, my bad. I didn't do my research when I posted. I still don't fully understand the motivation to post these things if they really aren't true. Maybe it's some ploy to discredit apple in some way but I just don't get it. Or maybe they're trying to tell thieves its ok to buy a stolen iPhone because Apple won't take it from you? Don't see the point of that either. Or maybe this post is fake and Apple would never let you walk out of the store with a stolen iPhone and this is just a way people are trying to goat would-be iphone thieves into returning to Apple to fix their stolen phone so Apple could then take it from them?

Guess I'll have to do more research about these types of posts to figure it out. :)

[rayward]

No, we found out the hard way that our policy does not cover theft.

You have contents insurance that doesn't cover theft? Now I know for certain that you are full of it.

[sibruk]

God, what is wrong with you people. Not everything is a conspiracy, you know! :rolleyes:

A lot of home contents insurance policies dodge PDAs and miscellaneous electrical items etc. Should really check your small print if you've got an iPhone!

[arkitect]

Guess I'll have to do more research about these types of posts to figure it out. :)

Keep a look out — there'll probably be another thread tomorrow or so about Apple refusing to help the police when someone's iPhone/MacBook was stolen from their apartment while they were sleeping…
:cool: ;)

[rayward]

God, what is wrong with you people. Not everything is a conspiracy, you know! :rolleyes:

The OP posts a long tale describing how Apple is in cahoots with iPhone thieves to obstruct justice, and I'm the conspiracy theorist?

[sibruk]

The OP posts a long tale describing how Apple is in cahoots with iPhone thieves to obstruct justice, and I'm the conspiracy theorist?
That's not what I read! It was about the frustration of the US legal system, and the fact that criminals are pussyfooted around in an attempt not to infringe their human rights, wasn't it?!

[BlackMax]

Now almost 2 months, and a subpena later, their incompetent legal and security teams send the detective the plaintiff's info. Stupid, Stupid.

Is your detective going to follow-up with the suspects name and address, track him down and at least interview him?

[Sky Blue]

Wow, you're phone got stolen, the thief took it to an Apple employee, who recognized your wedding photo on the phone? What are the chances of that happening? :hugefreakingrolleyes:

[BlackMax]

The OP posts a long tale describing how Apple is in cahoots with iPhone thieves to obstruct justice, and I'm the conspiracy theorist?

Many corporations require a subpoena before they hand over this type of information to protect themselves against lawsuits. I'm not saying this story happened or didn't happen, but the idea of a corporation requiring a court ordered subpoena before they hand over a private citizen's personal information is not so far fetched.

[synner]

Wow, you're phone got stolen, the thief took it to an Apple employee, who recognized your wedding photo on the phone? What are the chances of that happening? :hugefreakingrolleyes:



Ummmm... Go back, read again, then apologise.

:hugefreakingrolleyes:

[Sky Blue]

Ummmm... Go back, read again, then apologise.

:hugefreakingrolleyes:

Why? That's what happened. "Oh, look! This iPhone has a picture of my good friend Judith on it! You must've stolen it!"

[synner]

Why? That's what happened.

It was quite clearly stated that the Apple employee was a friend...

[Sky Blue]

It was quite clearly stated that the Apple employee was a friend...

Yes, it was quite clear. How else would they recognise them?

[nervouschimp]

You have contents insurance that doesn't cover theft? Now I know for certain that you are full of it.

the previous owners provided the home-owners insurance, it was part of the deal, and my fault for not reading the pamplet more closely, was just in a rush to close on the house. Beleive me I was shocked too.

Why would I make this up. You are jaded, man. Trolling, slander, and lies are not in my nature.

[synner]

Yes, it was quite clear. How else would they recognise them?

Then what was the point in your post? "Wow, you're phone got stolen, the thief took it to an Apple employee, who recognized your wedding photo on the phone? What are the chances of that happening? :hugefreakingrolleyes:"

Quite clearly making a sarcastic comment inferring that you don't believe the OP, if that wasn't your intention, your entire post makes no sense..

Ah well, I can't be bothered. It just amazes me how negative and quick to judge some people are.

[Wolfpup]

Good grief that's asinine. My current carrier's (U.S. Cellular) policy is to have any phones that come up as stolen or whatever held there-they do NOT give it back to the person, and report anything like that.

I guess I'd much rather any company error on the side of privacy and caution-after all this could be a scam on the part of the detective to get info about the legitimate owner of the phone-but when YOU already reported it stolen they should at least hold the thing if it comes in, and be willing to check with you if it's okay to release info they have or whatever...I don't know...

[Sky Blue]

It amazes me how gullible people are.

[synner]

It amazes me how gullible people are.

Ha Ha,

However, I didn't say I believed the OP....

See, you just did it again, making assumptions...... Not always the best way to go.

[nickspohn]

1) OP just joins, has no other posts.
2) Very similar story posted like this.
3) The chances of your phone getting stolen and taken to an Apple Genius with a passcode where they could look up the persons account within Apple? That's like stealing a car then going to the dealer and saying my breaks are out, can you fix them? If you're a criminal, you never go back to the place or origin. You use it yourself, or just sell it on the streets.
In case you didn't know how Apple retail stores work, they look up your info either from you or via the serial number on the back of the phone. There is no reason they should start trying to use the phone before this process.
4) The chances of the crook taking to an Apple store that this guys friend works at, and it just so happens the friend is a not just a acquaintances, but a good friend?

+Look at this guys username.

Get real people.

[nervouschimp]

It amazes me how gullible people are.

It amazes he how jaded people are.

Apple would never behave like this?

Or nobody has a friend that works at the apple store?

When you have a friend that works at the only apple store in town, the odds of them getting handed your phone are higher than you think.

I'm sorry I posted. Thanks for the warm welcome.

[DeaconGraves]

3) The chances of your phone getting stolen and taken to an Apple Genius with a passcode where they could look up the persons account within Apple? That's like stealing a car then going to the dealer and saying my breaks are out, can you fix them? If you're a criminal, you never go back to the place or origin. You use it yourself, or just sell it on the streets.


To be fair, assuming that this story is true, we have no idea who this guy who took the phone to Apple is. He might be the robber. Or he might be some poor sap who purchased the phone off the robber. (Which if that's the case, then getting his info from Apple won't advance the legal case at all.)

[Wolfpup]

It amazes me how gullible people are.

Why would assuming this is true make anyone gullible? It's perfectly plausible, and threads dealing with this type of issue are common in cell phone forums. Like I said, the response from my carrier is to take the phone from them and report any info they can.

[nervouschimp]

To be fair, assuming that this story is true, we have no idea who this guy who took the phone to Apple is. He might be the robber. Or he might be some poor sap who purchased the phone off the robber. (Which if that's the case, then getting his info from Apple won't advance the legal case at all.)

I don't care. If he kept it, then he has no conscience, and if he re-sold it, knowing it's stolen, he's a criminal.

[neiltc13]

nervouschimp, I love what you've done here. You've successfully managed to break a lot of people in this community away from their usual traits.

Those are: Agree with everything Apple does and be nice to everyone who ever comes here. You've forced people into making a choice between the two and this is a very interesting topic indeed.

I'm sorry to hear about your robbery.

[brock2621]

http://digg.com/apple/iPhone_thief_takes_my_iPhone_in_while_my_friend_is_working


I dugg this because ppl should know how Apple handles these things... Everybody is so afraid of being sued that no justice is ever done.

[DeaconGraves]

I don't care. If he kept it, then he has no conscience, and if he re-sold it, knowing it's stolen, he's a criminal.

Wasn't arguing with that man. I was just saying that the guy who brought to the store might NOT be a criminal. There is no crime in being in possession of a stolen object without knowledge that it is stolen.

[nickspohn]

I dugg this because ppl should know how Apple handles these things... Everybody is so afraid of being sued that no justice is ever done.

1) Buried as inaccurate.
2) It isn't good for the forums if you link directly to the thread. (That's if it gets popular, but there is a 9/10 chance it won't.

[arkitect]

True or not I think your biggest gripe should be with your friend… this "friend" had all the details and let it all go? Even though as an Apple employee he/she would have known that the Apple store wouldn't do anything to help? What? The Store manager held a gun to his/her head and made them reveal the details and destroy the name?

If I were a "friend" I would at least have kept a copy of the name and details of the purported thief. At very least remembered it… ;)
Wouldn't you?

That is what I find really odd…

[sibruk]

Jaded is exactly the word. What a bunch of nasty people have commented in this thread, pulling everything apart, trying to find a weak point, like some first year philosophy student! There's really no debate about validity to be found here. I guess it comes with the "rumours" territory... Not really sure why people are having such a hard time believing you got robbed - Apple equipment isn't at all desirable to a thief!

Anyway, I imagine you posted in here thinking that there would be a bit of a community of sympathetic listeners. Looks like you'll have to post somewhere else!

[nickspohn]

Uh, i'd obviously feel sorry for someone if i knew this actually happened. Read what i said with the numbers above. You can't trust everything on the internet, and it's stuff exactly like this that causes that.

The cigarette buts.. how did you know it was from the thief? I mean, if they showed up right after the incident then yes, but again, a thief waiting in a shed of yours? Why don't you have your shed locked? If it's big enough where he can go in, the shed must be pretty decent in size and stores some stuff in it. Why didn't he steal anything in there too?

Many break ins can be prevented. Yes there are a lot of cases where the home owner can't help it at all, but what puzzles me is that he had complete access to the shed.

Also, when your friend wrote down the license number, the cops could have gotten all the information on him. His name, address, etc. Since it was a physical break in, the cops would take this info.

[jessica.]

Many corporations require a subpoena before they hand over this type of information to protect themselves against lawsuits. I'm not saying this story happened or didn't happen, but the idea of a corporation requiring a court ordered subpoena before they hand over a private citizen's personal information is not so far fetched.

This is exactly the case and should have been the case with Apple. Sorry but saying Apple is wrong for requesting a subpoena is silly.
However, being in a position daily if I encountered what this guy's friend did I would have probably called the police on the spot. This is where I do not understand if this is Apple policy not to or a simple error.

[nickspohn]

Do you not get it? Your post doesn't add up. If there was some clear proof that this just oddly happened, i'd be fine. You have no credibility, so i cannot trust you. Agree with me that it is extremely suspicious for someone to join an iPhone forum, and your first post happens to be about this. If this was coming from someone who has posted a little bit and been registered for a few weeks, then i could believe it.

How come you didn't post this when "your friend at the apple store" randomly got your wifes iPhone? And THEN she gives it back to him...?

I'm just going to report this thread so it gets locked.

[ziggo]

This story kind of reminds me of a time I almost lost my job..

I work at a Best Buy, and I use to keep a backpack with me when I would go to work to store clothing/personal items in. I would always put it in the employee breakroom (where..you know..only EMPLOYEES can get into) and go about my day. Well the store had issued a policy that ALL employees that were not Supervisors or Managers could no longer carry cell phones with them on the sales floor. Since I worked in the wireless cell-phone/mp3 department at the time, i was allowed to carry my iPhone as a demo for customers who were interested in the Ipod Touch.
My girlfriend at the time however, would always put her iphone (that i purchased for her) in my bag. Well on day when I got off from work I go to check my bag and get her phone when sure enough, it was GONE!! FIVE HUNDRED AND THIRTY FOUR DAMN DOLLARS OF MY HARD-EARNED CASH STOLEN OUT OF THE EMPLOYEE BREAKROOM!!!! Not only that, but they got me for my 30gb Zune ($267.49 at the time) AND my PSP ($188.99 at the time)

Needless to say I totally FLIPPED!! I was EXTREMELY angry not just that my things had been stolen ut by an EMPLOYEE (Note, I'd been working at that particular store for over 2 years and was on extremely good terms with everyone who worked there and had never had any personal probems with anyone)

Worse yet, it happened over our Tax free weekend, which for anyone working retail in the state of Georgia can attest, is a very busy and tiresome four days. I had just come off of working a double shift and all of mythings are gone. ..:(:(

This is the ONLY time in recent memory that I can remember just totally blacking out and cursing out every single person who was in earshot. My GM was trying to calm me down and i yelled in his face and told him I quit and I took off my Best Buy shirt and threw it on the floor in front of customers and everyone. I was completely done, I couldn't understand how ANYONE whom i WORKED with could laugh, joke, and be a co-worker with me and then STEAL from me:mad::mad:

The ONLY reason i wasn't done and fired then and there was because my direct Supervisor and Manager pleaded with the GM on my behalf after i stormed out of the store. Once I calmed down and apologized to the GM face to face he was very understanding of how hurt I was.

And to this day the lesson that i learned was, never trust your co-workers no matter HOW long you've worked with them..

[DeaconGraves]

However, being in a position daily if I encountered what this guy's friend did I would have probably called the police on the spot. This is where I do not understand if this is Apple policy not to or a simple error.

I'm kind of wondering if that may be tied into the policy as well.

As I've mentioned in a few of my other posts we have no idea who the person who brought the phone in is. Might be the thief, might be some guy who found a good deal on craigslist/ebay.

Imagine you're the person in scenario b. A guy who found a good deal on craigslist for the phone and bought it, only to find the phone bricked due to passcode and deactivation. You take it to the store and its revealed as stolen. If Apple just immediately turned you over to the police, it'd be pretty awful, especially since you yourself had done nothing wrong. I think Apple is doing the smart thing by protecting its "customers" and their privacy until they are legally obligated to do otherwise (that Apple turned over the wrong information in the end does suck though, but I would think the Subpeona would still hold until the correct information is obtained).

That being said, as others had mentioned, if I had my friend at the Apple store, I would want him to contact me with all the information before he gave it over to Apple. Granted, maybe he wasn't aware of the robbery? In which case I probably wouldn't be thinking quickly enough to keep a copy for myself.

[Diode]

I can understand why they did this. Its for protection of personal information ... you have to draw the line somewhere.

[nickspohn]

And to this day the lesson that i learned was, never trust your co-workers no matter HOW long you've worked with them..

Why did you have a Zune and a PSP in your bag when you went to work?

[stanleywinthrop]

My friend who is a Microsoft employee and I were admiring my Iphone one day. He told me it was better than anything that microsoft made and wanted to go buy one. So we went down to the apple store. Everything went fine until the guy next to us asked the apple employee to activate the 3G he had stolen. The employee told him no problem. My Microsoft friend was incredulous. "Microsoft would never let that happen!" He became more and more agitated. He asked the guy if he had really stolen the iphone and the dude said yes. On hearing that he worked at microsoft, the employee helping us started scratching his head and called his manager. The transaction was complete and we started to leave. The manager stopped us and told us that microsoft employees were not eligible for the discount and told my friend that he needed to pay $300 more before we could leave the store. My friend told him to stick it and we turned to leave. Out of nowhere this huge guy in a football jersey tackled my friend, braking his arm. The football guy stood over my friend as he started having seizures and started yelling "that's what we think about microsoft around here!"

We went to the police to complain but the cop was using a vista computer to take his statement, and the damn thing crashed in the middle of it. The cop threw his hands up and said that without a statement he couldn't do anything. We told him we would write it out by hand but he said he couldn't do anything because the courts would only issue warrents based on information inputted into microsoft software. What a day.

[mac'inmama]

Why did you have a Zune and a PSP in your bag when you went to work?

Or at all? LOL

This thread has become *very* entertaining.

[nickspohn]

See at least Stanley knows when to cross the line. :eek:


Please tell me i'm being too critical, because there is no way in hell that happened...

[Tapper6]

Wow that is probably the worse Apple Store experience I have ever heard. Did you have it on your renter's insurance or personnel property insurance? Also I don't own an iPhone, but doesn't it have a remote erase function? Sorry to hear about your bad luck.

[DeaconGraves]

Wow that is probably the worse Apple Store experience I have ever heard. Did you have it on your renter's insurance or personnel property insurance? Also I don't own an iPhone, but doesn't it have a remote erase function? Sorry to hear about your bad luck.

Remote erase is for exchange only unfortunately.

[arkitect]

Wow that is probably the worse Apple Store experience I have ever heard.

And here's another (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=5884975#post5884975) one posted only yesterday… :eek:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=5884975#post5884975

What is the world coming to?
;)

[nervouschimp]

I'm just going to report this thread so it gets locked.

Huh? On what grounds?

[Whimsicool]

It amazes he how jaded people are...

I'm sorry I posted. Thanks for the warm welcome.

Don't be sorry. Your antagonist is a troll. I am a long time lurker, recent poster to this forum and I have seen over the past year that most people on this site just ignore his needless torments and baiting. I suggest you do the same. Life is just better ignoring the trolls of this world..

[atiffarooq]

Wow. I don't care if the OP is telling a true story or not - this thread is worth the entertainment alone!!

[nickspohn]

Don't be sorry. Your antagonist is a troll. I am a long time lurker, recent poster to this forum and I have seen over the past year that most people on this site just ignore his needless torments and baiting. I suggest you do the same. Life is just better ignoring the trolls of this world..

Are you stating your life is the internet?

Last i checked there are no trolls in real life.


Thanks atiffa :D

[cdenes]

Hey nervouschimp, I'm the girl who posted yesterday about similar treatment involving my laptop:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=5889645&posted=1#post5889645

I'm also being accused of making this up, though why I would bother to do that I do not know. So I wanted to express solidarity.

And to connect in case there is any way we can help each other out.

My laptop was actually not returned to the person who brought it in for repair - the police have it. But I was informed by a store employee recently that it is in fact store policy to return merchandise to the person who brought it in for repair if they request it, even if they are aware that the property is stolen. IMHO, this defies logic. The detective on my case did suggest that companies like Apple have no vested interest in discouraging theft because the vast majority of people whose computers are stolen will go out and buy a replacement, so the company makes more money. But I'm amazed that this behavior is not illegal. My detective also says that if it is something with a serial number, it is the legal responsibility of a buyer to verify that the merchandise is not stolen, or they are liable for arrest for possession of stolen property. He compared it to cars and VIN numbers.

This whole situation is so messed up and I can't find anyone at Apple willing to help or even just to tell me why it is taking so long.

Good luck to you.

[ViViDboarder]

It doesn't make any sense for the company to not cooperate with police. If their policy had something to do with not wanting something to happen to someone who may have unknowingly bought a phone on craigs list, it would be irrelivant.

Turning over the info is for investigation, not arrest. They would use the info, knock on the guys door, ask to see his phone, check the serial, possibly take the phone into custody and interview the guy.

It's not like a postit note with a guys address is going to warrant the po-po busting down the guys door and taking him "downtown".

No sense. Pics or it didn't happen. I want you're friend at the Applestore holding a piece of paper with your handle on it, as well as the police report of the robbery and the list of missing items submitted to the insurance company. :D If possible, hugging or shaking hands with the guy who stole it.

[ViViDboarder]

Hey nervouschimp, I'm the girl who posted yesterday about similar treatment involving my laptop:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=5889645&posted=1#post5889645

I'm also being accused of making this up, though why I would bother to do that I do not know. So I wanted to express solidarity.

And to connect in case there is any way we can help each other out.

My laptop was actually not returned to the person who brought it in for repair - the police have it. But I was informed by a store employee recently that it is in fact store policy to return merchandise to the person who brought it in for repair if they request it, even if they are aware that the property is stolen. IMHO, this defies logic. The detective on my case did suggest that companies like Apple have no vested interest in discouraging theft because the vast majority of people whose computers are stolen will go out and buy a replacement, so the company makes more money. But I'm amazed that this behavior is not illegal. My detective also says that if it is something with a serial number, it is the legal responsibility of a buyer to verify that the merchandise is not stolen, or they are liable for arrest for possession of stolen property. He compared it to cars and VIN numbers.

This whole situation is so messed up and I can't find anyone at Apple willing to help or even just to tell me why it is taking so long.

Good luck to you.

It is illegal. Apple would be in knowing possesion of stolen property. THAT'S why I don't believe it. Also, if they knowingly gave it back it'd be distributing stolen property. Perhaps a lawyer can confirm, but I think the only LEGAL thing you can do if you are given something you know to be stolen is to return it to the person who legaly owns it or the police.

[Jack Dangers]

The first thing our concerned friend did is copy down the man's driver's license info, and then inform the man that the iPhone he was in possession of was stolen property, and could not be re-activated. Then, her superiors decided they would have no further involvement, and allowed the man to leave with our iPhone. Our friend then gave the man's personal info to her manager, and we were told that our detective would have to contact their security guy to get the man's info.

Our detective is actually way cool, and was more than willing to contact Apple, as he wanted any leads that might help him grab the person(s) responsible for the robbery of our home. At first Apple told our detective that no personal info on the man had been recorded, but after a little pressure, they did admit that our friend had indeed submitted the man's identity to her management, but if our detective wanted the man's identity, he would have to issue a subpoena to Apple's legal department. Frustrated by Apple's complete unwillingness to cooperate, our detective decided to push forward, and went to the DA for a subpoena, informing us that Apple had basically just stalled the investigation by several weeks, because the DA is extremely busy and it would take that long just to get the subpoena.

Well, the detective called this morning to let us know that Apple had sent him info finally: My info. They sent him MY freaken info. My name and number. Now almost 2 months, and a subpena later, their incompetent legal and security teams send the detective the plaintiff's info. Stupid, Stupid.

This goes to show that not even an amazing stroke of luck like having your stolen iphone handed to a friend working at the Apple store can get your precious device returned to you, and thanks to Apple, my case is now cold. Thanks, Apple.

I'm not a legal professional, but couldn't apple's legal department have some type of obstruction charges against them? Since your friend is/was an employee, and seeing she provided the manager the information, Apple is in possession of evidence. I guess this could be classified as withholding evidence or something? Again, I'm not a legal pro...
I guess it depends what the subpoena specifically said, and that's probably what apple delivered.

true story or not, this is a good read... :)

[cdenes]

Imagine you're the person in scenario b. A guy who found a good deal on craigslist for the phone and bought it, only to find the phone bricked due to passcode and deactivation. You take it to the store and its revealed as stolen. If Apple just immediately turned you over to the police, it'd be pretty awful, especially since you yourself had done nothing wrong. I think Apple is doing the smart thing by protecting its "customers" and their privacy until they are legally obligated to do otherwise (that Apple turned over the wrong information in the end does suck though, but I would think the Subpeona would still hold until the correct information is obtained).


As a person whose laptop was stolen, I have zero sympathy for the person who bought it on craigslist, who found a "good deal" way below market value, and might have guessed something was up, except that he or she preferred to turn a blind eye. There is a penalty for buying stolen property, and that penalty is that you are arrested for possession, fingerprinted and questioned and then released if you are clearly not the one who did the actual stealing. Plus you lost the $500 or whatever you paid for the laptop that is worth $1700. (I saw a macbook listed on craigslist for this price a week after mine was stolen.)

what about the customer who didn't look on craigslist for a deal too good to be true, but who went and bought the computer new at full retail value? Aren't we more deserving of company sympathy?

[cdenes]

It is illegal. Apple would be in knowing possesion of stolen property. THAT'S why I don't believe it. Also, if they knowingly gave it back it'd be distributing stolen property. Perhaps a lawyer can confirm, but I think the only LEGAL thing you can do if you are given something you know to be stolen is to return it to the person who legaly owns it or the police.

Hey man, I know. i agree. that's why this whole thing sucks.

[DeaconGraves]

It is illegal. Apple would be in knowing possesion of stolen property. THAT'S why I don't believe it. Also, if they knowingly gave it back it'd be distributing stolen property. Perhaps a lawyer can confirm, but I think the only LEGAL thing you can do if you are given something you know to be stolen is to return it to the person who legaly owns it or the police.

Law student, not lawyer, but it's a little more complex than that in my knowledge.

I know the poster of the stole macbook issue was saying something along the lines that her detective said if something has a serial number it's the persons responsibility to ensure that it is not stolen. However, its significantly different than car VIN's because there is no government database to which one reports stole laptops. She was very fortunate in her situation that she got this e-mail saying that her computer was in for repairs, but in any other situation the possesor of the laptop (thief or not) wouldn't be able to enter the serial number on Apple's website and determine it's stolen (iphone may be different due to the subscription status).

So, as I mentioned on the iphone story, Apple can't just go on the word of the previous owner/detective and immediately turn it over. She could, hypothetically, have sold the computer at one point, realized she got a bad deal or just changed her mind, and reported it stolen to get it back. Apple requires subpoena's etc. to ensure that no one's screwing them over too.

Pain in the ass? Yes. But necessary.

[DeaconGraves]

As a person whose laptop was stolen, I have zero sympathy for the person who bought it on craigslist, who found a "good deal" way below market value, and might have guessed something was up, except that he or she preferred to turn a blind eye. There is a penalty for buying stolen property, and that penalty is that you are arrested for possession, fingerprinted and questioned and then released if you are clearly not the one who did the actual stealing. Plus you lost the $500 or whatever you paid for the laptop that is worth $1700.

Just curious, but could you tell me where you got this information. Sorry, law student habit kicking in. I need citations! :)

[bigjnyc]

My friend who is a Microsoft employee and I were admiring my Iphone one day. He told me it was better than anything that microsoft made and wanted to go buy one. So we went down to the apple store. Everything went fine until the guy next to us asked the apple employee to activate the 3G he had stolen. The employee told him no problem. My Microsoft friend was incredulous. "Microsoft would never let that happen!" He became more and more agitated. He asked the guy if he had really stolen the iphone and the dude said yes. On hearing that he worked at microsoft, the employee helping us started scratching his head and called his manager. The transaction was complete and we started to leave. The manager stopped us and told us that microsoft employees were not eligible for the discount and told my friend that he needed to pay $300 more before we could leave the store. My friend told him to stick it and we turned to leave. Out of nowhere this huge guy in a football jersey tackled my friend, braking his arm. The football guy stood over my friend as he started having seizures and started yelling "that's what we think about microsoft around here!"

We went to the police to complain but the cop was using a vista computer to take his statement, and the damn thing crashed in the middle of it. The cop threw his hands up and said that without a statement he couldn't do anything. We told him we would write it out by hand but he said he couldn't do anything because the courts would only issue warrents based on information inputted into microsoft software. What a day.


see now that i beleive. I'm sorry that your friend went through such an ordeal, I can't beleive the hostility nowadays towards microsoft employee and fans walking into apple stores.

[Sun Baked]

Huh? On what grounds?

Probably because he thinks people are monkeying around. http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12555&stc=1

[Interstella5555]

I, for one, am quite happy with the way Apple acted. I don't need to worry about the police coming to my house if I had a problem with a used product (Well, he DID bring in a MBP...and he wasn't white, so yeah, I'll give you his contact info) I 'm surprised so many of you are perfectly fine with a company handing over your information to the police without court order.

This isn't anything personal or against the OP, just the way I feel about it. Sorry about your loss, good luck!

[DeaconGraves]

I, for one, am quite happy with the way Apple acted. I don't need to worry about the police coming to my house if I had a problem with a used product (Well, he DID bring in a MBP...and he wasn't white, so yeah, I'll give you his contact info) I 'm surprised so many of you are perfectly fine with a company handing over your information to the police without court order.

This isn't anything personal or against the OP, just the way I feel about it. Sorry about your loss, good luck!

Bingo. It really sucks and is frustrating to those who got robbed, but it's vital to maintain our privacy rights.

[cdenes]

Just curious, but could you tell me where you got this information. Sorry, law student habit kicking in. I need citations! :)

Not sure what information you mean. I'm an editor, not a law student, so I don't know for certain about the punishment for being in possession of stolen property but the police did tell me they had to arrest the person who brought the macbook in for possession of stolen goods, and I imagine they would also fingerprint that person because they fingerprinted my apartment (and made a huge mess doing so which I hope was not for nothing) - to make sure that person was not at the crime scene.

[cdenes]

Just to be clear, I personally never asked Apple to turn any personal information over to me, but to the police, who have procured an arrest warrant and a subpoena for that information. So at this point, Apple is refusing to cooperate with the legal process.

[nervouschimp]

Hey nervouschimp, I'm the girl who posted yesterday about similar treatment involving my laptop:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=5889645&posted=1#post5889645

I'm also being accused of making this up, though why I would bother to do that I do not know. So I wanted to express solidarity.

And to connect in case there is any way we can help each other out.

My laptop was actually not returned to the person who brought it in for repair - the police have it. But I was informed by a store employee recently that it is in fact store policy to return merchandise to the person who brought it in for repair if they request it, even if they are aware that the property is stolen. IMHO, this defies logic. The detective on my case did suggest that companies like Apple have no vested interest in discouraging theft because the vast majority of people whose computers are stolen will go out and buy a replacement, so the company makes more money. But I'm amazed that this behavior is not illegal. My detective also says that if it is something with a serial number, it is the legal responsibility of a buyer to verify that the merchandise is not stolen, or they are liable for arrest for possession of stolen property. He compared it to cars and VIN numbers.

This whole situation is so messed up and I can't find anyone at Apple willing to help or even just to tell me why it is taking so long.

Good luck to you.

Thanks, cdenes. Hearing your story makes it easier to deal with everyone who thinks I would make crap like this up for no reason. I am a life long mac user, I have no reason to slander them. I post this story now, because I am astonished that even after a subpoena, apple would not cooperate. This story should have ended well with a nice "stupid criminal brings stolen goods back to apple store" headline, but thieves have nothing to loose when they bring stolen property to Apple. They can even leave with the stolen stuff they brought in.

To anyone offering hindsight to our friend at the store, she had no idea it would go like this, and they were very busy that day. She was shocked that they just let the guy go. It was not her doing, she was just trying to help, and going against protocol, I'm sure. I want her to keep her job, so I'm glad she didn't take things too far.

Heres an update to the situation... my wife just IMed me that the detective just called and said Apple is going to provide the info we requested. YAY!

Does SJ read macrumors? :)

Wish us luck!

Good luck, cdenes.

[bigjnyc]

Does SJ read macrumors? :)

Wish us luck!

Good luck, cdenes.


Yes I do. I had my secretary make a few phone calls and your detective is getting the info as we speak.

[DeaconGraves]

Not sure what information you mean. I'm an editor, not a law student, so I don't know for certain about the punishment for being in possession of stolen property but the police did tell me they had to arrest the person who brought the macbook in for possession of stolen goods, and I imagine they would also fingerprint that person because they fingerprinted my apartment (and made a huge mess doing so which I hope was not for nothing) - to make sure that person was not at the crime scene.

Gotcha. I guess I got confused because you were saying that the penalty for possesion of stole property was... (fill in the rest here).

Quick law lesson (because I'm procrastinating), but the crime of possesion does not simply constitute the act of possessing, but there is a mental component as well (ususually knowingly possessing). As I think I've noted in my previous posts, at the moment we are completely unaware if the person who brought the macbook in actually knows it was stolen. And that is probably where Apple legal is resisting. (Although in your case, I'm actually suprised the police got the laptop back and not the name. I would typically think it would be the other way around.)

Apple is resisting because, if the person who brought it in happened to be completely innocent, it would look terribly bad that they were revealing people's identification to the police.

Now, if the police had tracked this guy down (let's say waited for him to come back and pick up the macbook?) and gathered enough evidence to charge him with theft (say, fingerprints matched from the crime scene), then Apple would be more likely to cooperate. But clearly their legal department is sensing that this is not the case.

[cdenes]

Heres an update to the situation... my wife just IMed me that the detective just called and said Apple is going to provide the info we requested. YAY!

Wish us luck!


I do wish you luck. I'm a lifelong mac customer too and am shocked at the treatment I'm getting form the corporation and here. I emailed SJ last night. Let's see if that gets me anywhere!

On the other hand, I'm disheartened to hear you waited for over 2 months for Apple to respond to the subpoena. Does law student on here know if there is a time limit within which a response is required?

I've only been waiting a month so far and do not relish waiting another one.

[DeaconGraves]

Yes I do. I had my secretary make a few phone calls and your detective is getting the info as we speak.

See, I would think Steve would be more like Batman and take the baddies out ninja style. :p

[DeaconGraves]

I do wish you luck. I'm a lifelong mac customer too and am shocked at the treatment I'm getting form the corporation and here. I emailed SJ last night. Let's see if that gets me anywhere!

On the other hand, I'm disheartened to hear you waited for over 2 months for Apple to respond to the subpoena. Does law student on here know if there is a time limit within which a response is required?


Nope. No clue. Probably varies by jurisdiction.

The one thing I've learned is that once lawyers get invovled, NOTHING moves that quickly. I'm sure the subpoena spent a long time moving up the chain in Apple's legal department determining if/how they had to act.

[cdenes]

(Although in your case, I'm actually suprised the police got the laptop back and not the name. I would typically think it would be the other way around.)

Apple is resisting because, if the person who brought it in happened to be completely innocent, it would look terribly bad that they were revealing people's identification to the police.

Now, if the police had tracked this guy down (let's say waited for him to come back and pick up the macbook?) and gathered enough evidence to charge him with theft (say, fingerprints matched from the crime scene), then Apple would be more likely to cooperate. But clearly their legal department is sensing that this is not the case.

I appreciate the law lesson because I am mystified. I see what you mean about knowingly in possession. Police wanted to arrest the person when they came in to pick up the laptop, but Apple didn't want that kind of showdown at the store, I'm guessing (I wouldn't either if I were in their shoes!) so they referred police to their legal dept. Police were pissed and got a search warrant in the middle of the night on a saturday to go in an search the entire store for stolen goods unless they turned over my computer. They got my computer back but I guess they were told the information needed to be subpoena'd so they couldn't get that right away.

[lindsayanng]

Just my .02 but it is a rather experienced opinion.

I worked in a guitar shop for a NUMBER of years, and guitars and guitar amps are a HIGHLY sought after item and very often easy to steal (from gigs and cars)

We used to PURCHASE used guitars from people all the time. SOMETIMES a guitar that we purchased would show up on a fax that was sent to us by either the police department OR the person who it was stolen from> We would KNOW it was the right guitar because of serial numbers.

Anyways, if we already purchased (before the serial number reached us as a stolen item) the item off of the theif, the store was REQUIRED BY LAW to turn the guitar over to the police department at a loss to the store.

If the person shows up with a guitar to sell that we already KNOW is stolen, OBVIOUSLY it is ILLEGAL for our store to purchase it. The store was REQUIRED by law to try to hold the person in the store within reason until the cop gets there, and to take the actual stolen item into a place where it is safe. For the guitars, we would tell them we are taking it back to our repair guy to look at it before we gave him an offer. Phones are easier because they are smaller. We would then be required to CALL the cops and get as MUCH info as possible> AGain, collecting the info is pretty easy because in order to sell the guitar, theyw ould have to fill out info WITH a copy of their drivers lisence (similar to the info you give to activate a new phone)

I would THINK that the requirement would be the same for activating a KNOWN stolen good. Once it is in the possesion of the store (Like when the clerk has it in their hands to activate it) then it is in the possesion of the store and they HAVE to hold onto it before the police arrive and they are supposed to try to hold the person in the store (within reasonable force by either a security guard, ect) until the police gets there. If it is too dangerous to hold the person there, the stolen item is supposed to be put in a safe place (usually a safe or lock box) and as MUHC information as possible should be collected by the store while the police is in route to the store

Anyways, the reason i know the laws so well in my area is because i started out as a guitar sales person, but the last 2 years i worked there, i was involved in the loss prevention and purchasing department. It was a good gig and i got to work with the police on a lot of stolen goods investigations ( the store was located in a pretty rought city)

[ziggo]

Or at all? LOL

This thread has become *very* entertaining.


I do not have a car but I'm ALWAYS on the go. I frequently would spend the night at my friend's house and take either the train or the bus to work, gets boring on the commut sometimes so I'd do a little 10-15 minute gaming on the train, listen to music on my Zune, surf the web on my Iphone, ect. I know it wasn't the most secure place in the world but I didn't go around championing the fact that I had those electronics in my back pack. Coupled with the fact that I felt reasonably safe in the EMPLOYEE BREAKROOM and well....Disaster.....

I just feel bad for anyone whose had an expensive electronic stolen, especially since these things don't come cheap, that first generation iphone that i purchased for my then-girlfriend meant alot to me that i could get for her at the time....

[BlackMax]

Just to be clear, I personally never asked Apple to turn any personal information over to me, but to the police, who have procured an arrest warrant and a subpoena for that information. So at this point, Apple is refusing to cooperate with the legal process.

Actually, Apple is working within the bounds of the legal process. Also, giving information to the police is not always in your best interest. If you have some spare time watch these videos by a law professor AND a police detective on providing information to the police.

PART ONE:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4097602514885833865

PART TWO:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6014022229458915912&ei=&hl=en

[cdenes]

Apple is resisting because, if the person who brought it in happened to be completely innocent, it would look terribly bad that they were revealing people's identification to the police.


Maybe I'm unusual, but if I heard a story similar to my own about the breakin and theft and all, and it turned out that I could help track down the burglar because I might have met him (or her) I'd be happy to help. In fact, I'd JUMP to help. Guess there aren't so many good samaratins out there hunh.

I would only be upset about losing the money paid for the computer.

[nervouschimp]

When this is all done, I might compile and post all the correspondence for the non-believers. I will edit out the detective's info, but I think I can legally leave in all the apple contacts, except for our friend, I'll leave her out of this. I hope that wouldn't get her fired..... I'll have to think about this some more.

[RedTomato]

The main thing that I'm learning from this thread is that Apple has no clear policy on what happens when stolen goods are brought in.

This frustrates me, as every Apple laptop / computer / iPhone has a unique code and is heavily tracked in their system. If they offered some sort of anti-theft alerting service, that would put them significantly ahead of other computer companies. It would be a good marketing win, and lead to some good stories, +ve PR, and also serve to deter some thefts.

I'm sure they'd be able to devise a way of preventing people selling their gear then reporting it to Apple as stolen (a combination of requiring a police report, and having clear info for people purchasing second hand macs on how to safely re-register them would go a long way).

[cdenes]

. Also, giving information to the police is not always in your best interest.

So you are suggesting I should have said "wow my computer turned up at the store. how fascinating." and gone on my way? what choice did I have besides talking to the police?

[DeaconGraves]

Just my .02 but it is a rather experienced opinion.

I worked in a guitar shop for a NUMBER of years, and guitars and guitar amps are a HIGHLY sought after item and very often easy to steal (from gigs and cars)

We used to PURCHASE used guitars from people all the time. SOMETIMES a guitar that we purchased would show up on a fax that was sent to us by either the police department OR the person who it was stolen from> We would KNOW it was the right guitar because of serial numbers.

Anyways, if we already purchased (before the serial number reached us as a stolen item) the item off of the theif, the store was REQUIRED BY LAW to turn the guitar over to the police department at a loss to the store.

If the person shows up with a guitar to sell that we already KNOW is stolen, OBVIOUSLY it is ILLEGAL for our store to purchase it. The store was REQUIRED by law to try to hold the person in the store within reason until the cop gets there, and to take the actual stolen item into a place where it is safe. For the guitars, we would tell them we are taking it back to our repair guy to look at it before we gave him an offer. Phones are easier because they are smaller. We would then be required to CALL the cops and get as MUCH info as possible> AGain, collecting the info is pretty easy because in order to sell the guitar, theyw ould have to fill out info WITH a copy of their drivers lisence (similar to the info you give to activate a new phone)

I would THINK that the requirement would be the same for activating a KNOWN stolen good. Once it is in the possesion of the store (Like when the clerk has it in their hands to activate it) then it is in the possesion of the store and they HAVE to hold onto it before the police arrive and they are supposed to try to hold the person in the store (within reasonable force by either a security guard, ect) until the police gets there. If it is too dangerous to hold the person there, the stolen item is supposed to be put in a safe place (usually a safe or lock box) and as MUHC information as possible should be collected by the store while the police is in route to the store

Anyways, the reason i know the laws so well in my area is because i started out as a guitar sales person, but the last 2 years i worked there, i was involved in the loss prevention and purchasing department. It was a good gig and i got to work with the police on a lot of stolen goods investigations ( the store was located in a pretty rought city)

Very interesting... I am guessing that the difference between your scenario and the current ones are that 1) there's no purchasing involved here (so the store can't be held liable for purchasing stole goods, and 2) Perhaps that the police should do a better job notifying the Apple Stores of reported stolen equipment (like they were with your guitar store). Again, not trying to justify Apple's action, just trying to figure out the logic behind them.

Just curious but was your store a local shop or a regional/national chain. Cooperation with the police tends to vary based on the size of the legal dept. :)

[cdenes]

If they offered some sort of anti-theft alerting service, that would put them significantly ahead of other computer companies.

There are such third party devices available for purchase.

[ViViDboarder]

There are such third party devices available for purchase.

I've got Orbicule Undercover. It does just that. Now if only iPhone could have one :D It'd have to be for Jailbreak, and then I doubt you'd get much Apple CoOperation. :D

[BlackMax]

So you are suggesting I should have said "wow my computer turned up at the store. how fascinating." and gone on my way? what choice did I have besides talking to the police?

I wasn't referring to the victim, but others who might be innocent.

[nomar383]

I think it's at least plausible.

Hmmmmm...

Either way, I really did enjoy that microsoft story a few posts back though! lol

[lindsayanng]

our shop was a national chain of guitar stores and music equipment.. SAM ASH.

You're right, the police would definitely help the situation IF they were to fax over a weekly list of serial numbers of stolen iphones, BUT if the person in the store ALREADY KNEW it was stolen, ALL that person had to do was call the cops, and there is NO REASON why the manager should not have allowed it. it would be considered illegal to not report a crime correct??

In my mind, even though it is a little different in here that they did not get a serial number DIRECTLY from the police, and they were not purchasing it, but they still by law, have to report a crime correct??

It ALL just seems fishy and completely unbelievable that they would go ahead and activate it, and at the LEAST, they should have called the cops on the spot, held on to the phone and had the cops come in and just question him

And if the guy bought it off craigslist at a great price, not really knowing it was stolen, it is STILL his loss. its illegal to purchase stolen good.. Look at the guitar store.. You might not get prosecuted if you didnt KNOW you were buying stolen goods, but you WILL loose the goods

[DeaconGraves]

our shop was a national chain of guitar stores and music equipment.. SAM ASH.

You're right, the police would definitely help the situation IF they were to fax over a weekly list of serial numbers of stolen iphones, BUT if the person in the store ALREADY KNEW it was stolen, ALL that person had to do was call the cops, and there is NO REASON why the manager should not have allowed it. it would be considered illegal to not report a crime correct??

In my mind, even though it is a little different in here that they did not get a serial number DIRECTLY from the police, and they were not purchasing it, but they still by law, have to report a crime correct??

It ALL just seems fishy and completely unbelievable that they would go ahead and activate it, and at the LEAST, they should have called the cops on the spot, held on to the phone and had the cops come in and just question him

And if the guy bought it off craigslist at a great price, not really knowing it was stolen, it is STILL his loss. its illegal to purchase stolen good.. Look at the guitar store.. You might not get prosecuted if you didnt KNOW you were buying stolen goods, but you WILL loose the goods

Well, according the OP's (iphone) story. Apple didn't reactivate the phone, they just let him leave with it. So he technically just made off with a paperweight.

But yeah, I agree with you that it's a bit bizarre. Might have involved some store management making some incorrect decisions, and Apple is now covering their butts.

[Interstella5555]

our shop was a national chain of guitar stores and music equipment.. SAM ASH.

You're right, the police would definitely help the situation IF they were to fax over a weekly list of serial numbers of stolen iphones, BUT if the person in the store ALREADY KNEW it was stolen, ALL that person had to do was call the cops, and there is NO REASON why the manager should not have allowed it. it would be considered illegal to not report a crime correct??

In my mind, even though it is a little different in here that they did not get a serial number DIRECTLY from the police, and they were not purchasing it, but they still by law, have to report a crime correct??

It ALL just seems fishy and completely unbelievable that they would go ahead and activate it, and at the LEAST, they should have called the cops on the spot, held on to the phone and had the cops come in and just question him

And if the guy bought it off craigslist at a great price, not really knowing it was stolen, it is STILL his loss. its illegal to purchase stolen good.. Look at the guitar store.. You might not get prosecuted if you didnt KNOW you were buying stolen goods, but you WILL loose the goods

Again, you're assuming too much here. How about this: I buy a phone off Fred on Craiglist. I call him, and pay cash, so there's not a "paper" trail. Fred's SO get's pissed that he sold the phone and reports it to Apple as stolen. So I go into Apple, get branded and thief AND they call the cops on me for nothing I did wrong? Sorry, once Apple starts being that loose with their customer information I'm going back to dell.

[DeaconGraves]

Again, you're assuming too much here. How about this: I buy a phone off Fred on Craiglist. I call him, and pay cash, so there's not a "paper" trail. Fred's SO get's pissed that he sold the phone and reports it to Apple as stolen. So I go into Apple, get branded and thief AND they call the cops on me for nothing I did wrong? Sorry, once Apple starts being that loose with their customer information I'm going back to dell.

Right. It'd be a different story if they got the report from the police though. 'Cause if Fred got pissed and reported it as stolen to the police, you would have to at least give him the benefit of the doubt that he was telling the truth (or he'd be facing massive penalties for fraudulently filing a police report).

[nervouschimp]

Again, you're assuming too much here. How about this: I buy a phone off Fred on Craiglist. I call him, and pay cash, so there's not a "paper" trail. Fred's SO get's pissed that he sold the phone and reports it to Apple as stolen. So I go into Apple, get branded and thief AND they call the cops on me for nothing I did wrong? Sorry, once Apple starts being that loose with their customer information I'm going back to dell.

In my case, had he tried to get it back to the rightful owner when he discovered it to have been stolen, I would have paid him a reward, softening the blow.

Here a great rule of thumb: If the seller does not know the pass-code, the phone is prolly stolen.

[atiffarooq]

See, I would think Steve would be more like Batman and take the baddies out ninja style. :p

Batman's a ninja expert?! Now I've heard it all!!

:p;):D

[DeaconGraves]

Batman's a ninja expert?! Now I've heard it all!!

:p;):D

Didn't you see Batman Begins? Definitely trains in Ninjitsu at the beginning. :cool:

[RedTomato]

There are such third party devices available for purchase.

I've got Orbicule Undercover. It does just that. Now if only iPhone could have one :D It'd have to be for Jailbreak, and then I doubt you'd get much Apple CoOperation. :D

Yup, I know about that one and a couple others. But Apple should provide their own support and have it more deeply integrated into their systems.

[aristobrat]

AT&T won't block the IMEI of stolen phones (nor will T-Mobile). There are literally hundreds of blog articles and forum posts across the web complaining about this practice.

The Apple Store can't reactivate an iPhone that's not associated with a current AT&T account. No active AT&T account = no iPhone service at the Genius Bar.

[atiffarooq]

Didn't you see Batman Begins? Definitely trains in Ninjitsu at the beginning. :cool:

Aaaah yes I stand (sit?) corrected. How could I forget Ra's al Ghul and his training techniques.

Forgive me SJ aka Batman.

[DeaconGraves]

Yup, I know about that one and a couple others. But Apple should provide their own support and have it more deeply integrated into their systems.

I'm not sure Apple wants that liability. Look at all the crap they're getting for improperly defining "Push" in mobileme. Now imagine that scenario the first time a mac gets stole with this new support and they are unable to recover it.

[Consultant]

The main thing that I'm learning from this thread is that Apple has no clear policy on what happens when stolen goods are brought in.


There is a policy. Read up on what the person said about the guitar.

To the gullible, you do know that 2 newbies with zero posts before posting near identical implausible stories and agreeing with each other on the internet doesn't make it true?

My friends at Apple Store are ROTL at such poorly written fiction. (You think Apple is run by some monkeys and no one ever had to deal with stolen merchandise, ever, for over three decades?)

[summary: what actually happens with stolen merchandise]

[Hawkeye411]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/107/267970852_1705e516fc.jpg?v=0

[nervouschimp]

There is a policy. Read up on what the person said about the guitar.

To the gullible, you do know that 2 newbies with zero posts before posting near identical implausible stories and agreeing with each other on the internet doesn't make it true?

My friends at Apple Store are ROTL at such poorly written fiction. (You think Apple is run by some monkeys and no one ever had to deal with stolen merchandise, ever, for over three decades?)

Like I said, I will post the correspondence with Apple when this is all done, but since this is ongoing, that would not be wise right now.

I am a fairly creative person, and if I was going to make up a story, it would be a lot more original than this.

The detective said apple never cooperates with law enforcement. I can only expect smugness like yours on a fanboy site.

If your friends at the Apple store want to verify this, so that you all can be a little less mean-spirited, have them contact Javier, the Regional Loss Prevention Manager.

The last communication we got from our detective is that Apple legal has agreed to turn over the requested information.

Oh, and thanks, Hawkeye411! You are all so smart, and funny here at macrumors!

Viva La Apple Legal and Loss Prevention, and keep enjoying that delicious coolaid.

[alFR]

Ah, now the Koolaid joke gets trotted out. Sounding more trollish by the minute. :rolleyes:

[nervouschimp]

Ah, now the Koolaid joke gets trotted out. Sounding more trollish by the minute. :rolleyes:

I clearly must be trolling, you are so smart. I wasn't really looking for sympathy, but I wasn't really expecting the level of smugness I've seen here either. I guess this is why I've never hung out on this forum before, and I'll never start another thread here again. I posted my story here, because I thought it would be met with way too much hostility on the apple support forums. I think I would have been better off posting there.

I can tell you from my experience with Apple, though most of you don't believe me, that the macbook story most likely real. And I'd like to update my post as this plays out, but you don't want to hear it, and you want me to go away. So I will. I'll just PM cdenes, because I really want to know how her story ends, but this thread should come to end. Earlier, one astute macrumors member wanted to lock this thread, and now that seems like the best idea, as it's turned into nothing but taunting.

[shreyam]

oh my god, all those people that say that both of these stories are fiction ares so weird. You know that apple isn't perfect. Geeze, some people in these forums treat Apple as their god. They aren't perfect at everything. For example, look at their mobile me service. Now, when you die-hard fanboys read this post and get angry and start calling me a microsoft die-hard or something, you should know that I appreciate apple in some aspects, but not all.:eek:

[nomar383]

oh my god, all those people that say that both of these stories are fiction ares so weird. You know that apple isn't perfect. Geeze, some people in these forums treat Apple as their god. They aren't perfect at everything. For example, look at their mobile me service. Now, when you die-hard fanboys read this post and get angry and start calling me a microsoft die-hard or something, you should know that I appreciate apple in some aspects, but not all.:eek:

Firstly, I haven't decided whether I believe this or not.

However, I understand Apple is not perfect and I consider this story to be in the realm of being reasonable. The only reason he is being questioned is due to the fact this is his first post. The story itself is not what is in question, it is the validity of the poster.

If a 6502a posted this, I don't think it would have been picked apart so fast.

I hate that this is your first expierence here at MR, but this was a poor choice to make your first post :)

[arkitect]

I hate that this is your first expierence here at MR, but this was a poor choice to make your first post(S) :)

Fixed. :D:D

[bigmouth]

Some of you need to lay off the Oliver Stone. If a troll wanted to make Apple look bad, there are so many better ways to do so.

[mrzeve]

But I was informed by a store employee recently that it is in fact store policy to return merchandise to the person who brought it in for repair if they request it, even if they are aware that the property is stolen.

That is in fact, the policy.

[mkoesel]

Some of you need to lay off the Oliver Stone. If a troll wanted to make Apple look bad, there are so many better ways to do so.

True.

But sometimes people make posts to a forum to see what reaction they get. Why? Because they are trying to get answers to questions that, if asked outright, would incriminate them. Kind of like walking into a drugstore and asking for some topical ointment saying that "my eldery grandpa needs it". If you get my drift.

[mkoesel]

(Assuming this thread is indeed genuine)

She immediately called my wife, and my wife told her that we had just been robbed, and that the iPhone was stolen.

What needed to happen right then is that she needed to take that phone and walk out the back door of the store. Additionally, she needed to provide you the man's info. Why? Because now a criminal is walking the streets instead of being locked up. (Yes, assuming he did not merely buy the phone from the actual thief).

Later you can compensate your friend monetarily and also repay her for getting fired (if she had) by helping her find a new, better job. The most important part is that you did a service to your community by getting this piece of trash off the streets. And you kept him from breaking into someone else's how later that night - maybe this time he would get interrupted in the burglary and shoot the homeowner out of panic.

Do not trust the system in cases where you can take control yourself in a legal and safe manner. Obviously you don't confront the guy, but you can still get immediate results.

[bigmouth]

True.

But sometimes people make posts to a forum to see what reaction they get. Why? Because they are trying to get answers to questions that, if asked outright, would incriminate them. Kind of like walking into a drugstore and asking for some topical ointment saying that "my eldery grandpa needs it". If you get my drift.
Hmmm...I frankly hadn't considered that possibility. I'm skeptical a thief would go to the trouble of writing out not one but TWO such elaborate posts just to test Apple's policies in this regard. But you make a fair point...

[wronski]

I don't know what's harder to believe, the original story or some of these theories everyone else has suggested. Stuff like this happens all the time. It's not too hard to believe. I remember someone posted that their car was stolen in an automotive forum and within 48 hours one of the members saw it on a motor way, had followed the thief home, and had detectives over there ready to recover the car in no time. As to posting this to make Apple look bad... seriously?