[Merged] Sony and Macbook KB Similarrities [Archive]

macjay

May 25, 2007, 09:45 AM

ModNote: merged thread to discuss similarities between these keyboard designs, the calculator you had when you were a kid, the TRS-80 Color Computer, etc. :) --mkrishnan

Do you think that Apple got the idea for its MacBook keyboard from this 2004 Sony X505?

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a91/phaccount/xx505px00.jpg

I never knew that Sony could build such a heinous-looking computer.

mpw

May 25, 2007, 09:54 AM

...I never knew that Sony could build such a heinous-looking computer.
I quite like it. Sure the keyboard could move back to add a trackpad the screen ratio needs to go widescreen, but other than that (and the OS) I'd buy it.

macjay

May 25, 2007, 10:05 AM

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a91/phaccount/X505.jpg

localoid

May 25, 2007, 10:16 AM

Do you think that Apple got the idea for its MacBook keyboard from this 2004 Sony X505?

This type of keyboard dates back a couple of decades prior to the Sony. For example, the IBM PCjr featured a chiclet type keyboard when it was first introduced in 1984.

macjay

May 25, 2007, 03:12 PM

This type of keyboard dates back a couple of decades prior to the Sony. For example, the IBM PCjr featured a chiclet type keyboard when it was first introduced in 1984.

Just checked it out (http://oldcomputers.net/ibm-pcjr.html).

That keyboard makes me shiver.

NorCalLights

May 25, 2007, 04:02 PM

Do you think that Apple got the idea for its MacBook keyboard from this 2004 Sony X505?

No.

macjay

May 25, 2007, 04:15 PM

No.

Well, the reason that I thought so, even though the "chiclet" keyboard is from the 80's, is that Apple pays alot of attention to Sony's designs, and seeing as how this was (from what I understand) the first time it was used on an Apple laptop, I don't think it's coincidence that it was on a Sony model a few years ago.

plinden

May 25, 2007, 04:38 PM

Spanky Deluxe

May 25, 2007, 04:57 PM

Perhaps this article from 2005 is relevant?
Apple recruiting Sony VAIO engineers to build the first Intel PowerBook? (http://www.engadget.com/2005/07/30/apple-recruiting-sony-vaio-engineers-to-build-the-first-intel/)

Edit: Just thinking, I can't believe I remembered reading that two years ago.

That was the first thing that popped into my head when I read the OP's post. That keyboard does look very similar to the one in the MacBook so I wouldn't be surprised if it was the idea of an Ex-Sony Engineer who jumped ship to Apple.

heySparky

May 25, 2007, 11:16 PM

taylorwilsdon

May 26, 2007, 02:10 AM

As the owner of an X505, I can say without a doubt that its better looking then any laptop Apple will ever make. There still has never been a production laptop that is thinner then it. Even though its on its last leg I still stick it in my bag once in a while because its just so teensy.

TraceyS/FL

May 26, 2007, 04:46 PM

Just checked it out (http://oldcomputers.net/ibm-pcjr.html).

That keyboard makes me shiver.

Hmmm..... we had one. Never had any problems with it.... but we had a corded keyboard and I don't remember what it looked like.

Had a TON of games for it - there is a blast from the past! It was my 2nd Computer, the first being the DEC Rainbow running CP/M. Only game i had for that was Adventure. But i had fun playing in Multi-Plan LOL!!!

ETA: After than I moved to a MacSE :D

a456

Jul 25, 2008, 12:58 PM

http://www.sonystyle.com/wcsstore/SonyStyleStorefrontAssetStore/img/vaioimage/static_images/lightbox_images/fw_top_right_keys.jpg

I don't know where they got the idea for this new kind of funky keyboard (***looks down at iMac Alu Keyboard***shrugs***scratches head****) but it looks great.

sushi

Jul 25, 2008, 01:01 PM

I don't know where they got the idea for this new kind of funky keyboard (***looks down at iMac Alu Keyboard***shrugs***scratches head****) but it looks great.
Sony would never copy a good idea. ;)

GSMiller

Jul 25, 2008, 01:15 PM

Sony's new tagline should be "Steal from the best and make it your own" :rolleyes:

I noticed the similarity the first time I saw a picture of Sony's new notebooks.

Insulin Junkie

Jul 25, 2008, 01:17 PM

Eidorian

Jul 25, 2008, 01:18 PM

We've been over this before... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiclet_keyboard)

sushi

Jul 25, 2008, 01:19 PM

Sony's new tagline should be "Steal from the best and make it your own" :rolleyes:
Catchy. Honest. Descriptive.

You may be on to something! :p

marvel2

Jul 25, 2008, 01:23 PM

[IMG]I don't know where they got the idea for this new kind of funky keyboard (***looks down at iMac Alu Keyboard***shrugs***scratches head****) but it looks great.

They got the idea from their VAIO X505 way back in 2004. Remember this article (http://www.engadget.com/2005/07/30/apple-recruiting-sony-vaio-engineers-to-build-the-first-intel/) about Apple recruiting Sony VAIO engineers to make their next notebook? That notebook happened to be the MacBook with the x505 style keyboard.

jpmittins

Jul 31, 2008, 05:55 PM

Sony would never copy a good idea. ;)

I don't get it. Sony came up with the idea for Beta, which were at their height better than VHS. Sometimes I wish Sony had won the videotape format war.

Sesshi

Jul 31, 2008, 05:59 PM

Sheesh I'm already majorly drooling over the vaio z series, this picture isn't helping curb the crave! :o
If the new macbooks look like that I'm selling mine tomorrow for a new one. God how I wish it ran Leopard, I'd get that machine in an instant. :eek:

Why would you want it to be less reliable :confused:

I have one on preorder.

As others have said, Sony have been doing this style of chiclet keyboard longer than Apple. Everything Apple knows about making laptops, they learned from them - and they're still the student to the master.

Jayy24

Jul 31, 2008, 11:53 PM

Uhh.. Sony was the first to bring this keyboard to the market... :rolleyes:

aussie.damo

Aug 1, 2008, 12:48 AM

I love these threads - the fanboys who do no research and blindly believe that Apple invents everything never come back to eat the humble pie.

Damo

chrono1081

Aug 1, 2008, 12:58 AM

Why would you want it to be less reliable :confused:

I have one on preorder.

As others have said, Sony have been doing this style of chiclet keyboard longer than Apple. Everything Apple knows about making laptops, they learned from them - and they're still the student to the master.

Student to the master? Work in electronics retail for any amount of time and see how many sonys get returned or come in with problems. I've owned two sonys and never again will I buy another. Sure they look very very nice, but they're over priced and come with numerous problems. I thought my first one was just a lemon and gave them a second shot 2 years later. Nope, same numerous problems (speakers dying, cd rom dying, and battery going after about a month of use).

The only time sony made a good pc was back in the pre-2002 era. They were great back then. If they made them today like they did back then I would have one as a windows machine.

SFStateStudent

Aug 1, 2008, 02:57 AM

I thought those guys only made my big screen/flatscreen/LCD/Bravia/TVs/Monitors...:eek:

Pixellated

Aug 1, 2008, 03:10 AM

While apple get all the credit for this, lets go back 20 odd years.

A young Steve Jobs visited XEROX PARC and saw that the GUI is the future. He went home, and now everyone's using it.

Pixellated

Aug 1, 2008, 03:11 AM

Sesshi

Aug 1, 2008, 09:16 AM

Student to the master? Work in electronics retail for any amount of time and see how many sonys get returned or come in with problems. I've owned two sonys and never again will I buy another. Sure they look very very nice, but they're over priced and come with numerous problems. I thought my first one was just a lemon and gave them a second shot 2 years later. Nope, same numerous problems (speakers dying, cd rom dying, and battery going after about a month of use).

The only time sony made a good pc was back in the pre-2002 era. They were great back then. If they made them today like they did back then I would have one as a windows machine.

Maybe work in product development and marketing for any amount of time and see Sony builds two tiers of machines. The low-end machines are built in the same / similar contract facilities as Macbooks, Dells, etc. The machines like the SZ and TZ (and presumably the new Z1) - i.e. hardware price-comparable with Apple's offerings - are built in Japan.

I suspect if you work in electronics retail you'd probably deal comparatively little people buying the latter, as well as the question as to what you'd be able to afford even with a staff discount.

I gross slightly more than a shop assistant and I buy slightly more tech gear than your average guy. I've had top-tier VAIO's since launch in the 90's and failures / RTB for any reasons can be counted in the single digits, as opposed to the high-double-digits (in terms of machines and percentages) I've had with supposedly 'Pro' Apple gear. I must admit I have no idea about the low-end NR series, etc - I don't buy them.

muldul

Aug 1, 2008, 09:30 AM

Looks very nice, but it doesn't run OS X so no thank you:apple::apple:

Consultant

Aug 1, 2008, 10:03 AM

While apple get all the credit for this, lets go back 20 odd years.

A young Steve Jobs visited XEROX PARC and saw that the GUI is the future. He went home, and now everyone's using it.

The difference is that STEVE JOBS OBTAINED THE PERMISSION OF THE INTELLECTUAL RIGHTS HOLDER. That was used to make the first Mac OS.

Bill Gates deceptively obtained the pre-release version of Mac OS under the guise that MS will write apps for Mac OS, and proceed to use the BETA Mac OS as basis of windows without obtaining the proper rights. Looks like they still do, 30 years later.

BTW, it's 30 years, not 20 years. Get your info straight.

Killyp

Aug 1, 2008, 10:21 AM

Why would you want it to be less reliable :confused:

I have one on preorder.

As others have said, Sony have been doing this style of chiclet keyboard longer than Apple. Everything Apple knows about making laptops, they learned from them - and they're still the student to the master.

What, like the trackpad?

In reality, Sony are nothing when it comes to laptop innovation. The real innovators were people like Compaq, who were the first to develop a laptop in the guise it's known today. In fact I'd say since then, the biggest innovation which has actually affected users when it comes to laptop design is developing the OS specifically for the computer, AKA Apple.

Joe23

Aug 1, 2008, 11:04 AM

I'm sorry, but Sony were doing this on their X505 before Apple came along with their own rendition of it.

Abraxsis

Aug 1, 2008, 11:25 AM

The meeting at Xerox was in Dec 1979, and the Lisa, the first commercially available computer based off that meeting, was out in 1983. Now, I wasn't a math major, but that seems to be 20 odd years to me. Which is what the OP said, he did not say "20 years ago." To be such a stickler for facts you might want to take some of your own advice.

The difference is that STEVE JOBS OBTAINED THE PERMISSION OF THE INTELLECTUAL RIGHTS HOLDER. That was used to make the first Mac OS.

Bill Gates deceptively obtained the pre-release version of Mac OS under the guise that MS will write apps for Mac OS, and proceed to use the BETA Mac OS as basis of windows without obtaining the proper rights. Looks like they still do, 30 years later.

BTW, it's 30 years, not 20 years. Get your info straight.

Tosser

Aug 1, 2008, 11:35 AM

jimN

Aug 1, 2008, 12:24 PM

...
I suspect if you work in electronics retail you'd probably deal comparatively little people buying the latter, as well as the question as to what you'd be able to afford even with a staff discount.

I gross slightly more than a shop assistant and I buy slightly more tech gear than your average guy. ... I must admit I have no idea about the low-end NR series, etc - I don't buy them.

Seems you traded earning potential for people skills. Whilst you undoubtedly are able to offer a different perspective to the other poster it wouldn't hurt for you to read through your post and just take a moment to realise quite how condescending and arrogant it is. We all need shop assistants, in fact they are arguably more useful than a lot of other professions which may command far higher salaries.

Sorry to hi-jack the thread.

topicolo

Aug 1, 2008, 01:26 PM

'79-'08=29 years
'83-'08=25 years
:p

Lol. owned :D

Sesshi

Aug 1, 2008, 02:13 PM

What, like the trackpad?

In reality, Sony are nothing when it comes to laptop innovation. The real innovators were people like Compaq, who were the first to develop a laptop in the guise it's known today. In fact I'd say since then, the biggest innovation which has actually affected users when it comes to laptop design is developing the OS specifically for the computer, AKA Apple.

They were very late in the game to launch their own. However they had been working with many other companies - Apple included - to develop laptops. It was the explosion of the laptop market in the 90's which caused Sony to enter the fray themselves. A keyboard isn't exactly an innovation. The form factor of many Sony notebooks were, as well as the build quality of the flagship notebooks in relation to their compactness / capabilities.

Seems you traded earning potential for people skills. Whilst you undoubtedly are able to offer a different perspective to the other poster it wouldn't hurt for you to read through your post and just take a moment to realise quite how condescending and arrogant it is. We all need shop assistants, in fact they are arguably more useful than a lot of other professions which may command far higher salaries.

Sorry to hi-jack the thread.

I'm very familiar with people skills - far more than your average shop assistant it has to be said - but raising issue with BS is something else altogether. What the problem is, is not actually being in the best position to know about whatever is under discussion but being very definite about it - which is to a larger extent also a problem with the dedicated and vocal Apple users I have to say, if what I read on this board is anything to go by.

muldul

Aug 1, 2008, 07:16 PM

What laptop is that? Very familiar keyboard, wonder where i know it from ;)

queshy

Aug 1, 2008, 08:29 PM

Sony is so creative these days!

mixmacface

Aug 1, 2008, 08:58 PM

'79-'08=29 years
'83-'08=25 years
:p

simple math'D!

Masquerade

Aug 1, 2008, 08:59 PM

Sony's new tagline should be "Steal from the best and make it your own" :rolleyes:

I noticed the similarity the first time I saw a picture of Sony's new notebooks.

sony had rounded key keyboards long before macbooks.

aussie.damo

Aug 1, 2008, 10:12 PM

What laptop is that? Very familiar keyboard, wonder where i know it from ;)

Umm, have you not read the rest of this post? If anything, Apple nabbed the idea from Sony, who had this design WELL before they did.

It must be nice to live in the RDF.

Damo

elppa

Aug 2, 2008, 04:37 AM

I thought those guys only made my big screen/flatscreen/LCD/Bravia/TVs/Monitors...:eek:

This is a joke, right?

Looks very nice, but it doesn't run OS X so no thank you:apple::apple:

OSX86 will probably get some of the way there, but in reality it has only been designed to do Windows.

elppa

Aug 2, 2008, 04:38 AM

Introduced in 2004, discontinued now.

http://www.trustedreviews.com/images/article/page/1489full.jpg

http://www.trustedreviews.com/images/article/page/1492full.jpg

http://www.trustedreviews.com/images/article/page/1490full.jpg

Funnily enough it is also slimmer than another Apple Innovation “the world's slimmest notebook”, the MacBook Air.

Dagless

Aug 2, 2008, 05:45 AM

I'm more than certain my Spectrum computer from the 80's has this keyboard that Apple "invented" :rolleyes:

Roba

Aug 3, 2008, 09:41 PM

As been said already enough times Sony used this sort of keyboard years ago for the first time.

Not only that they have been using this keyboard in more recent years as well on the 11.1 Sony TZ and the 14.1 Sony CR. The keyboard on TZ was very popular so they started to extend using this keyboard on other ranges in their product line up.

Sony TZ
http://www.trustedreviews.com/images/article/inline/4673-IMG5251s.jpg

Sony CR
http://www.trustedreviews.com/images/article/inline/5193-IMG7572s.jpg

benlangdon

Aug 6, 2008, 07:10 PM

i saw this in a magazine i was flipping through the other day,
just remembered it.

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&categoryId=16154&SR=sensory:shop:brand_bin:vaio_notebooks:ss&ref=http%3A//www.sony.com/index.php

mods, sry if repeat, just delete if it is.

Dagless

Aug 6, 2008, 07:23 PM

Already posted here somewhere.

Oh and Sony might have stole it from Apple. Just as Apple might have stole it from the Spectrum ZX from the 80's.

zioxide

Aug 6, 2008, 07:24 PM

Sony had a laptop with those keys back in like 05.. before the macbook came out.

PlaceofDis

Aug 6, 2008, 07:27 PM

the macbook style keyboard has been around for a long time. its just that apple only recently decided to move to it.

benlangdon

Aug 6, 2008, 07:36 PM

i kinda thought this myself,
that they might have taken it from sony or other and such

aight now i know :)
backspace thread

SnowLeopard2008

Aug 6, 2008, 07:38 PM

lol, microsoft "steals" more than any other company. ever since the controversial GUI lawsuit. but yea, it is possible Apple stole from Sony.

sammy2066

Aug 6, 2008, 07:55 PM

lol sony just released that product line, way after apple released the macbook line in 2006.

Dude, get your facts straight. The Sony X505 had this keyboard like 5 years ago.

SnowLeopard2008

Aug 6, 2008, 08:29 PM

Dude, get your facts straight. The Sony X505 had this keyboard like 5 years ago.

no need to get all pissed off, i made a mistake alright? geez... it's not like your all knowing...

Cassie

Aug 6, 2008, 08:33 PM

no need to get all pissed off, i made a mistake alright? geez... it's not like your all knowing...

The thing is, if you had bothered to take the time to actually read this thread beyond the first post, you would've known this earlier.

SnowLeopard2008

Aug 6, 2008, 08:38 PM

The thing is, if you had bothered to take the time to actually read this thread beyond the first post, you would've known this earlier.

ok what is it with everyone jumping down my throat today? I'm sorry if I dont meet your head-in-space expectations. if you had bothered to reply to the OP's
thread instead of jumping down my throat, maybe this thread would have more insight on the thread's topic.

Abstract

Aug 6, 2008, 08:42 PM

Sony had used it before the MB was released, and their use of black keys were also before the MBA was released. Of course, the Ti PowerBooks also had black contrasting keys before Sony did, and I'm sure someone else must have designed a keyboard with contrasting key colours....

Oh well.

lol, microsoft "steals" more than any other company. ever since the controversial GUI lawsuit. but yea, it is possible Apple stole from Sony.

What does this thread have to do with Microsoft? You sound biased, and it's really hard to take your opinion seriously.

Rodimus Prime

Aug 6, 2008, 08:43 PM

Dude, get your facts straight. The Sony X505 had this keyboard like 5 years ago.

ouch. Looks like apple copied Sony.....

*puts on flame suit as annoying fan boys come running

clevin

Aug 6, 2008, 08:53 PM

I can't say enough about the ridiculous cult of "accusation of copying" created by apple.

Its a keyboard, my lord, who cares? can we just all get rid of this ridiculous habit of throwing "copy" "steal" everywhere?

.Chris

Aug 6, 2008, 09:26 PM

I thought those guys only made my big screen/flatscreen/LCD/Bravia/TVs/Monitors...:eek:

they been making computers for a while kid.......

ezekielrage_99

Aug 6, 2008, 10:16 PM

Sony's new tagline should be "Steal from the best and make it your own" :rolleyes:

I noticed the similarity the first time I saw a picture of Sony's new notebooks.

Didn't Sony engineers have a part in developing the the Intel based laptops for Apple :confused:

But as laptops go I think they have done a very nice job. Although I thought from the specs I've seen and reviews I thought Sony would have made it a little more for the multimedia market.