iBox - Apple Set Top Box?

[MacRumors]

MacOSX.com claims (http://www.macosx.com/content/article.php?cid=53) to have received information about a product called the Apple iBox.

According to the site, the iBox is essentially a modern set top box which would act as a wireless media hub connected to your television. Reportedly, the appliance will offer versions of iPhoto and iTunes to help manage your digitial media.

Readers should note that anonymous emails to random websites, however, tend not to be very accurate. Apple Set Top Box rumors have been around for years... and even made our Reject List (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/12/20031230043507.shtml) for 2003.

Apple actually did produce an Apple Branded Set Top Box in 1995, but the system never went into full production. Early versions/prototypes can still be found floating around.

[arn]

I actually have one of their non-full-production set top boxes.

I'll post a pic when I get a chance. They could be found on ebay for a while.

arn

[moosecat]

If it's a hoax, it's a pretty detailed one. But, it wouldn't be the first time ...

If it's true, I'm disappointed they won't be including TiVo service-like functionality. The TiVo box is useful; but TiVo service is what makes it lifestyle-altering.

[zedwards]

How about here:
http://forums.macrumors.com/archive/topic/1122-1.html

[cc bcc]

What about this iBox? http://www.2khappyware.com/ibox/

[rainman::|:|]

Originally posted by arn
I actually have one of their non-full-production set top boxes.

I'll post a pic when I get a chance. They could be found on ebay for a while.

arn

Does it have any functionality? what is it's purpose?

it's not the same thing as a Pippin, is it?

paul

[Freg3000]

Originally posted by cc bcc
What about this iBox? http://www.2khappyware.com/ibox/

That is what I thought of at first.

It seems pretty cool, although the specs seem pretty strange. Only 128 MB or Ram, and a G3...powering a SuperDrive? Is that even possible?

Other than that, it sounds really cool, but I doubt it will be introduced at MWSF, if ever.

[Winston Smith]

Credit card primed and ready for the 6th.
This is exactly the product I want.

[Lancetx]

Originally posted by Winston Smith
Credit card primed and ready for the 6th.
This is exactly the product I want.

Same here, although I'm not holding my breath waiting....

[SpY2K]

cant wait to see if anything like this is announced next week... I would swipe my plastic for a product with this sort of functionality...:cool:

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by Winston Smith
Credit card primed and ready for the 6th.
This is exactly the product I want.

Question is always price ... but if Apple can put this out for $200-300 I might just buy two of them ... :)

A very detailed hoax if it is one, or perhaps a scuttled product ... there is always a good chance we'll never see such a device. But the specs look good for a closed-box system, and interacting with my PC/Mac is what has kept me from buying other similar products to date ...

[ITR 81]

Originally posted by Freg3000
That is what I thought of at first.

It seems pretty cool, although the specs seem pretty strange. Only 128 MB or Ram, and a G3...powering a SuperDrive? Is that even possible?

Other than that, it sounds really cool, but I doubt it will be introduced at MWSF, if ever.

G4 466-1330Mhz (Dual Capable)
I think that will be a pretty fast iBox.

[snofseth]

If it is only Itunes and Iphoto on your soundsystem/tv it seems like a waste to me. Right now you can just use and Ipod for music they make audio connectors so no need for that part of the product and Iphoto I dont use but if I did you can just use your camera. I also aready have tivo so I am not sure how it could be a new product and knowing apple this does not seem innovative enough

[Gabriel]

Steve spent a lot of time on a recent conference call talking about how he wasn't interested in set-top boxes. I don't remember his argument precisely, but he went on for awhile about how bad set-top boxes are. I do remember that he said people don't want to spend $$$ on a TV, and then go out and buy a separate set-top box, VCR, DVD player, game system, because it just becomes an expensive mess. Besides, I haven't used a TiVo but they are notoriously difficult to use and most people still can't set the clock on their VCR. Why make separate components with different interfaces that you have to plug into each other when you can combine all of it into the TV itself. Steve said that computers won't become more like TVs, TVs will become smarter. I think a set-top box is pretty unlikely, but maybe a huge flat screen TV with something like a TiVo built in?

[KREX725]

Does anyone actually think they would even call such a device an "iBox"? I think it's a hoax. It's just way too XBOX sounding first of all.

[COS]

Originally posted by Gabriel
I haven't used a TiVo but they are notoriously difficult to use and most people still can't set the clock on their VCR.

You couldn't be more wrong.
A tivo is so idiotically simple... ANYONE and EVERYONE would have no problem using one. I have one and I can honestly say that it totally replaced my VCR.

To record shows, you simply say thumbs up for shows you like and thumbs down for the ones you dont. It will not only record those shows in the future, but it will find shows similar shows based on your viewing habits.

As far as setting the time... because its connected to a phone line... it auto-syncs the clock with Tivo's servers at least once a day.

Originally posted by Gabriel
Why make separate components with different interfaces that you have to plug into each other when you can combine all of it into the TV itself.

To my knowledge, nobody has made a TV/Tivo/DVD/VCR yet.

Originally posted by Gabriel
Steve said that computers won't become more like TVs, TVs will become smarter.

Steve is right, but what he's getting at is that TIVO functionality is something that can be done by the cable companies. With that done, there's no need to have a Tivo OR VCR. The only things thats left is movies on demand (from the cable company) or a DVD player in the TV itself.

[micvog]

Originally posted by Gabriel
Besides, I haven't used a TiVo but they are notoriously difficult to use and most people still can't set the clock on their VCR.

Actually, TiVos are notoriously easy to use, and with the "Home Media Option" allow you to wirelessly display any photo or play any MP3 file from your Macintosh on your TV/stereo system. In other words, everything that is being talked about is already a reality with TiVo. I don't even see how Apple could improve TiVo (except to add AAC support to "HMO"). I believe this is why Apple now sells TiVos in their stores.

Michael

[Larshart]

Wouldn't it make sense for Apple to offer a TIVO type service for a set-top Box as a "Member Benefit" for a Mac.com account to help drive sales of Mac.com subscriptions?

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by Gabriel
Besides, I haven't used a TiVo but they are notoriously difficult to use and most people still can't set the clock on their VCR.

You obviously haven't used a Tivo.

My wife is firmly in the blinking-12:00-perpetually crowd, and has never (successfully) programmed a VCR in her lifetime. She records shows on our Tivo (actually, a stripped-downcopy distributed by Dish) at least three times a week.

Tivo is point-and-click. If you can read a TV Guide grid display, you can program a Tivo.

[rdowns]

[i]Re: Re: Name is taken

quote:
Originally posted by Freg3000
That is what I thought of at first.

It seems pretty cool, although the specs seem pretty strange. Only 128 MB or Ram, and a G3...powering a SuperDrive? Is that even possible?

Other than that, it sounds really cool, but I doubt it will be introduced at MWSF, if ever.


G4 466-1330Mhz (Dual Capable)
I think that will be a pretty fast iBox.

Freg3000 is talking about the rumored set top box. You are referring to the iBox pizza box proposed computer.

[Dstreelm]

this thing doesnt need a g5 with a gig of ram, its not rendering or compiling raw video or anything, i was actually planning on building my own set top box scaveging pards fron blue and white g3 towers...i find the specs totally believable...and i want one!!

[edgar_is_good]

I was thinking: if apple made one of these, it could work well with .mac. I have a replaytv and pay $10/mo to use it. You could imagine apple sells this, but w/o automated program guide, with .mac has automated program guide. (I imagine it works manually on its own). This, in turn, improves functionality of other devices, etc., etc. iSync with iphoto and maybe itunes.

[dongmin]

The iBox has a small, sleek encasement that is about 10 inches long, 6 inches wide and 1 - 1 1/2 inches thick. Its optical drive is slot loading and it has an on button that resembles the cube's power "button." Its case is made of the same material found on the G5, even sports the same grey logo on the top. The front, or face, of the iBox is pearl white, similar to an iPod.
ha ha. I think someone was smoking too much crack and mistook an iBook sitting on top of a TV for a set-top box.

The gadget does NOTHING NEW that an iMac + EyeTV can't do. Quite an uninspiring hoax...

[Dstreelm]

Originally posted by dongmin
ha ha. I think someone was smoking too much crack and mistook an iBook sitting on top of a TV for a set-top box.

The gadget does NOTHING NEW that an iMac + EyeTV can't do. Quite an uninspiring hoax...

they way i understood the article was that the guy actually had the thing, not just mistook it from pictures or something...if it is a hoax, the guy had really thought it out, even made up features of the included apps explains in detail the interaction between his computer and the ibox, thats a helluva imagination, im inclined to believe the guy(then again im a glass is half full kinda person)

and about the name "ibox" its probably just a project name, maybe given to the testers specifically so that if they go to press with it, people will think he's nuts or making it up

maybe im making up reasons to believe him...thats prally just cause i want one so bad!!!

[rubbergorilla]

The most interesting part of this rumour is that they mention that because the iPod has opened so many doors into consumer electronic stores like fry's and best buy and that makes this set-top box more feasable.

Just think, if Apple tried to sell this unit 3 years ago who would have carried it? No one. Now that the iPod is such a runaway success these retailers are more likely to carry stock of an iBox. Plus consumers now have Apple in mind when buying consumer electronics because of the iPods.

I'm not saying I totally believe this rumour, but Apple sold almost a million iPods in fiscal 2003. I think Apple is starting to realize that consumer electronics are a huge money maker, and they could make a lot more money selling them to everyone, not just computers to less than 5% of the market.

[dukemeiser]

First off, I would buy one. But it would need to have these things:

TiVo like functions; recording video to a hard drive.

iTunes streaming music to my stereo

iPhoto streaming photos to my TV

Wireless connection via Airport.

Apple uses the term "digital hub" a lot, but so far they've only touched on one spoke of that hub: music.

[Kent Laugen]

Specs say s-video. Isn't component really the new standard. My next tv and dvd player will have to have at least component video. Any experts out there on this issue?

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by dukemeiser
First off, I would buy one. But it would need to have these things:

TiVo like functions; recording video to a hard drive.

iTunes streaming music to my stereo

iPhoto streaming photos to my TV

Wireless connection via Airport.

Apple uses the term "digital hub" a lot, but so far they've only touched on one spoke of that hub: music.

Um, if you read the rumor, each of these are mentioned as features.

[Dstreelm]

yeah, component video does offer higher quality video than s-video, but you cannot abandon s-video because so many tv's out there have it. think about the roll-over on tv's, my parents have had the same magnavox tv for 7 years, ive had mine for 5, and i dont plan on gettin another one until this one crapps out. so yeah they should put component video outputs(inputs too??) but they also need to support s-video because you dont want people to have to buy another piece of hardware just so they can view the video content(i assume that theres component video to s-video converters out there)

[edgar_is_good]

Originally posted by Kent Laugen
Specs say s-video. Isn't component really the new standard. My next tv and dvd player will have to have at least component video. Any experts out there on this issue?

don't know anything 'cept that my powerbook came with a 3inch s-video to component adapter. Don't think it's a big deal.

[Kent Laugen]

I agree, can't abandon s-video yet, I should have added that to my post. Unit should have both.

=====================

I was told s-video to component adapter doesn't give a component quality signal, it just allows connection to component. Is this true?

[Dstreelm]

Originally posted by Kent Laugen
I was told s-video to component adapter doesn't give a component quality signal, it just allows connection to component. Is this true?

yeah, it just changes the delivery method, not the content. you cant(cheaply) up-res video content

[cuby]

MacOSX.com describes the box as follows:

"The iBox has a small, sleek encasement that is about 10 inches long, 6 inches wide and 1 - 1 1/2 inches thick"

That's about the size of an external 5.25" drive enclosure. I can't see how Apple is going to fit a slot-in DVD-RW drive (a slim form factor notebook DVD writer will be too expensive, so this is probably a standard half-height IDE device), a 120 GB IDE hard disk (which has to be a 3.5" drive as the biggest 2.5" HDs are about 80GB) and a G3-based mainboard into a box that small.

Nevertheless, I'd probably buy one ;)

[Kent Laugen]

I love Apple, but the decision to not include component reminds me of when Apple first introduced i-mac with only 28.8k internal modems when 56k were solidly already in the market. They caught heat for that one and quickly upgraded to 56k.

[rog]

I think it's far more likely that Apple will re-introduce the BeBox and announce that they've purchased what was left of Be Inc. From PalmOne. Hell 75MHz PPC 603!

[rog]

that was supposed to be Hello! not Hell! My bad. Lame joke ruined.

[Dstreelm]

Originally posted by Kent Laugen
I love Apple, but the decision to not include component reminds me of when Apple first introduced i-mac with only 28.8k internal modems when 56k were solidly already in the market. They caught heat for that one and quickly upgraded to 56k.

don't rule out them including component video in this thing (if they release it) this guy just had one version of the thing. im almost positive he didnt have the last version, apple would only supply that to its QA dept.

[edgar_is_good]

Originally posted by Kent Laugen
I love Apple, but the decision to not include component reminds me of when Apple first introduced i-mac with only 28.8k internal modems when 56k were solidly already in the market. They caught heat for that one and quickly upgraded to 56k.

Here's a question: are these photos of the black prototype boxes of the same dimensions as described in the rumor? Or different?

[rubbergorilla]

don't know anything 'cept that my powerbook came with a 3inch s-video to component adapter. Don't think it's a big deal.

You're confusing component with composite.

Component is three connectors per wire, one for red, green and blue.

The adapter that came with your PowerBook is composite, one single end.

[beowolf]

I distinctly remember Steve Jobs saying during the introduction of the iLamp iMac that a G4 processor was needed for the use of a superdrive (G3 doesn't have the ooomph for the encoding that is needed if I remember right). Somebody correct me if I am wrong.

[rubbergorilla]

He said something along those lines, but it simply isn't true. Just look at the minimum requirements for a Lacie DVD burner. A G3 or higher with FireWire.

'nuff said.

[dongmin]

Originally posted by dukemeiser
First off, I would buy one. But it would need to have these things:

TiVo like functions; recording video to a hard drive.

iTunes streaming music to my stereo

iPhoto streaming photos to my TV

Wireless connection via Airport.

Apple uses the term "digital hub" a lot, but so far they've only touched on one spoke of that hub: music.
So what's new? TiVo does all this and more, and for cheaper. Seems to me all Apple needs to do is just work more closely with TiVo to get better integration.

edit:
1. What's so great about streaming photos to your TV, whne your computer is a room away?
2. What's the point of wireless if this box is just gonna sit on top of your TV?

[Dstreelm]

Originally posted by beowolf
I distinctly remember Steve Jobs saying during the introduction of the iLamp iMac that a G4 processor was needed for the use of a superdrive (G3 doesn't have the ooomph for the encoding that is needed if I remember right). Somebody correct me if I am wrong.

apple introduced a ilamp a while ago, im sure they've made some revisions to the superdrive since then...also, the processor in the ilamp also has to run a full operating system and all the the system processes and stuff, from what i understand from the article, it doesnt have a super extensive interface, just the versions of iphoto, itunes and idvd, not a full osx operating system so maybe the G3 in the ibox can be more dedicatedto encoding the video

[Flowbee]

Originally posted by dongmin

1. What's so great about streaming photos to your TV, whne your computer is a room away?

When you've got friends and family over, it's nice not to have to crowd them all into the spare bedroom/office to look at your photos. Reminds me of the good old slide projector days (without the set-up and upside-down pictures).

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by Dstreelm
yeah, it just changes the delivery method, not the content. you cant(cheaply) up-res video content

Last I checked, Component Video was not higher resolution than S-Video. I may be mistaken, but I believe that both the luminosity and chrominance signals have the same horizontal and vertical frequency in the two formats.

The primary difference between SVideo and Component is wire cross-talk during transmission, and a (slight) cramping of the signal in SVideo (which is lost irreversibly, but IMHO is all but undetectable to my eyes). Contrast this to Composite (RCA jacks) vs SVideo, or RF (cable jack-style) vs Composite, in both cases of which the cramping is significant and noticeable.

Using a near-source SV-to-Component break out gets 90% of the Component benefit with SV flexibility for the 80%+ of users who don't have component video inputs (while, granted, doing nothing for the 40-50% who have nothing but RF jacks ...)

HDTV is a completely different story, of course, but for that you wouldn't be using component either ...

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by dongmin
So what's new? TiVo does all this and more, and for cheaper. Seems to me all Apple needs to do is just work more closely with TiVo to get better integration.


Tivo doesn't do all that the rumor says Apple's device will do. Read the source.


edit:
1. What's so great about streaming photos to your TV, whne your computer is a room away?


Yeah, and why have a DVD player on your big-screen TV when there's a DVD-ROM built into your eMac?

Um ... maybe because displaying pictures and videos to more than two people (including yourself) at a time is incredibly cumbersome on a PC, and easy and natural on a living room display? Perhaps so that you can have, for instance, a slide show of your kids' soccer season playing on the TV while your end-of-season soccer party guests are milling about?


2. What's the point of wireless if this box is just gonna sit on top of your TV?

Maybe because >90% of houses don't have an ethernet jack behind their TV sets? Ya think?

[G4DoobieDoobieD]

This box was a prototype created by Steve Pearlman when he worked for Apple. Apple was not interested so Steve Pearlman created WebTV and was later purchased by Microsoft (Pearlman was then ejected from the company once the merger was completed) and is now known as MSNTV. It is just an internet appliance.

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by G4DoobieDoobieD
This box was a prototype created by Steve Pearlman when he worked for Apple. Apple was not interested so Steve Pearlman created WebTV and was later purchased by Microsoft (Pearlman was then ejected from the company once the merger was completed) and is now known as MSNTV. It is just an internet appliance.

Except that it contains a processor and features which didn't exist in 1995 ... if it is an evolution of the WebTV prototype, it has gotten a fair amount of recent attention.

[G4DoobieDoobieD]

Well the box pictured is a pre-WebTV prototype that did have features currently not included in MSNTV

[whfsdude]

Originally posted by G4DoobieDoobieD
Steve Pearlman

Yeah just read in the paper, he died today/yesterday :eek:

Edit: Not him but another former Apple employee (Phil Goldman) who was a co-founder of WebTV.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A46655-2003Dec31.html

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by G4DoobieDoobieD
Well the box pictured is a pre-WebTV prototype that did have features currently not included in MSNTV

Okay. You're talking about the Pippin, which isn't really the subject here (just an interesting aside). The subject under discussion is the "iBox" rumor, which reportedly includes a G3 and a SuperDrive and Airport Extreme, al of which didn't exist in 1995.

Sorry for the confusion; let's try and be more specific what we're calling a WebTV prototype :)

[G4DoobieDoobieD]

Here are some links about Steve,

<http://broadcastengineering.com/ar/broadcasting_digital_settop_boxes/>
<http://www.reardenstudios.com/people.html>

I couldn't find anything about him dying.

[dongmin]

Originally posted by jettredmont
Tivo doesn't do all that the rumor says Apple's device will do. Read the source. Umm, yeah it does. Everything except for the superdrive bit. TiVo does photos, music, remote scheduling, and multi-room viewing. It even does wireless.

I'm not saying this is a bad idea (although I wonder what good bluetooth is for a home set-top box), but there's already a product out there, compatible with Macs, that does this and does it well. Instead of creating a brand new product that won't offer anything particularly new and will piss off a developer, why not just work with TiVo to add a couple minor improvements, like the ability to import recorded TV programs into iDVD.

[porovaara]

Originally posted by jettredmont
Last I checked, Component Video was not higher resolution than S-Video.
SVideo is limited to 480 interlaced lines.

[Flowbee]

Originally posted by KREX725
Does anyone actually think they would even call such a device an "iBox"?

Who'll be in the commercials? George Foreman... or Evander Holyfield?

[rjgjonker]

Originally posted by porovaara
SVideo is limited to 480 interlaced lines.

I think you are referring to SVHS, S-Video uses 576 scanlines.

[porovaara]

Originally posted by rjgjonker
I think you are referring to SVHS, S-Video uses 576 scanlines.
Nope, I meant 480 as in 480i mode.

[G4DoobieDoobieD]

No Pippin was a game console that Apple made and sold off to Bandai (sp?).

[iChan]

Originally posted by edgar_is_good
don't know anything 'cept that my powerbook came with a 3inch s-video to component adapter. Don't think it's a big deal.

you might be thinking of composite, not component.

[jliechty]

Originally posted by jettredmont
Last I checked, Component Video was not higher resolution than S-Video. I may be mistaken, but I believe that both the luminosity and chrominance signals have the same horizontal and vertical frequency in the two formats.

The primary difference between SVideo and Component is wire cross-talk during transmission, and a (slight) cramping of the signal in SVideo (which is lost irreversibly, but IMHO is all but undetectable to my eyes). Contrast this to Composite (RCA jacks) vs SVideo, or RF (cable jack-style) vs Composite, in both cases of which the cramping is significant and noticeable.

Using a near-source SV-to-Component break out gets 90% of the Component benefit with SV flexibility for the 80%+ of users who don't have component video inputs (while, granted, doing nothing for the 40-50% who have nothing but RF jacks ...)

HDTV is a completely different story, of course, but for that you wouldn't be using component either ...

I so love it when people who have no idea what they're talking about start rambling on and on. What do you mean there's no difference in resolution???? Are you on drugs man??? The max that S-Video can pass is 480 interlaced scanlines compared w/ component inputs that can run 1080 interlaced scan lines.......480----1080...yeah obviuosly no difference there. The can also run progressive scan something S-Video cannot offer. Component cables pass a 720 line progressive scan as well. And thats just looking at numbers...obviously you don't own anything w/ component capabilties or you'd see for yourself. As for your comment that "HDTV is a different story of course but for that you wouldn't be using component either..." How ignorant are you seriously???? Component input is used by at least 90% of HDTV viewers. Its what we all use. DVI is here for some and around the corner for the rest of us......but I watch HDTV everyday via component input...and so does most everyone else on the planet...so next time you might want to leave the comments to people that own the technology....and remember that doing research on the internet doesn't mean you understand a thing!!!!

[mian]

Here is a followup.

http://www.macosx.com/content/article.php?cid=55

[appleface]

if the ibox is for real, do you think it will be made to interact directly with an ipod?

[Nermal]

Originally posted by rjgjonker
I think you are referring to SVHS, S-Video uses 576 scanlines.

480 in US/Canada/Japan, 576 everywhere else :)

[Nermal]

Originally posted by dongmin
why not just work with TiVo

Because something made by Apple might actually become available outside the USA.

[inocen1]

First off, jettredmont, I have to agree with jliechty, your ignorant rambling was like the sound of nails scrapping down a chalkboard but in literary form. How could you use big words like luminosity and chrominance, but be so completely off at the same time. Impressive.

Secondly, just my two cents after reading about all of this, it's complete fiction. It'd be nice to see, but it's just not in Apples cards right now.

Lastly, many have talked about the superdrive capability on this fictional device and how this one up's Tivo. Mostly as a clarification, Tivo does now have one model by pioneer that can actually record and playback shows and movies on the built in DVD drive. Too bad it costs so damn much or I'd buy one in a second. Add ACC to the home media option and that Tivo package with DVD writing is a hard one to beat. Tivo and Apple really do go very well together. Both have a loyal fan following and flawless usability. Man, a partnership between the two... one can dream.

[Winston Smith]

Assuming this is on the cards I hope Apple isn't intending to work closely with Tivo etc.
As posted above an Apple product has a chance of being released outside the US.

Tivo has effectively pulled out of the UK and there just isn't any useful alternative except in the US.

Apple has a recent history of ignoring international customers, so I hope the wireless part of the 'iBox' is not just for Media streaming but also to make use of Websites offering programming schedules.
This will give the product universal appeal as a PVR without needing to directly link the product to 3rd party suppliers (like Kodak with iPhoto printing)

[snahabed]

This rumor is retarded, no offense :)

Not only has Steve publicly derided the set-top box market... not only has Steve already formed strategic alliances with market leader TiVo... but the idea of such a box being run via a remote and not a keyboard is laughable. T9 anyone?

And iTMS will be included? Oh great! Now is that going to be an authorized computer? No wait. Huh? Exactly.

I fail to understand why you people cannot do pretty much all of this with any Superdrive Mac, Eye TV, and Toast.

We will sooner see iPhone than iBox.

[eric_n_dfw]

I read somewhere that this year the DirectTV-Tivo DVR with HD will be coming out. (may be out already)

It is supposed to have 2 HD, terestrial tuners, 2 DSS (HD capable) tuners, component out (maybe even DVI) and a HUGE hard drive (200GB+?) (Maybe they will make one of these with a DVD-RW drive like the Pioneer one, PLEAAAASSEE!) IMO, Apple should hitch it's wagon to that instead of trying to compete with it.

They at least need to kick DirecTV or Tivo in the pants to get HMO available for those of us with DirecTIVO Series 2 boxes like myself! (And while they're at it, ad AAC audio!)

:D

[Vector]

I just bought one of the prototype/pre-production set top boxes from 1995. I got it for really cheap on ebay, but unfortunately i won't be able to play around with it until i go back home in two months. I will post what i find out about it and some pictures in a couple of months.

[RichardCarletta]

It might be neat if Apple produced a wireless device that worked with tivo to present photos on tv , play music , and transfer recorded shows to idvd but Steve Jobs thinks tv is the idiot box . Kind of a harsh assessment considering he owns Pixar. How are movies really any different from tv ? Tivo has such a huge part of the US market so trying to market a competing product would be much harder. Making a complimentary product makes more sense. One downside to this though would be your mac would be busy working with this device . What if one of your kids wanted to use the mac to go online or do schoolwork ? You would need a second mac then, which would only increase mac sales . Brillent ! ;)

[fluidfilm]

Originally posted by COS
TIVO functionality is something that can be done by the cable companies. With that done, there's no need to have a Tivo OR VCR. The only things thats left is movies on demand (from the cable company) or a DVD player in the TV itself.
I have a DVR from Time Warner in NYC that is essentially a TiVo, except it's just part of the built in Cable Box with on-screen menu. I never watch live TV or commercials and I never miss a show. Simplest thing in the world. Look at the schedule and click. Very intuitive. 2 Hard drives invisibly hold 40 hours of immaculate-quality video, can handle 3 streams of video,and I don't need to plug it into a phone line.
http://www.twalbany.com/digitalentertainment/dvr.php
I agree that this kind of functionality is best served from the media provider, not a separate box or even a TV. I get a new (free) cable box every 2 years (plus they do firmware upgrades remotely) but I keep TVs for a decade, so I think the tech couldn't keep up if it's built into an expensive screen.

Still, if Apple makes something, I'd probably buy whatever it is.

[idkew]

Hummm... care of The Mac Observer:

1998:
Rumors of a secret set-top device at Apple first surface. News.com reports that the device is code named "Columbus," and that it will be a consumer set-top device. Reuters quickly publishes its own story saying the device would be announced at NAB. CNBC then reports that Columbus will be an education-oriented device that has a built-in 9" display. Columbus ended up being the original iMac, a new Mac with a built-in 15" display.

great to see 6 year old rumors are still hard at work!

[SimDesign]

I recently talked to someone who works at a large TV broadcast company in London and they said they had ben talking with Apple about some future developments that were in the pipeline.
They wouldn't say much more on it though. So Apple could have something TV based up their sleeves.

[chriscorcoran]

A set top Box from Apple would be nice. I can see it with AirPort, maybe Bluetooth, ethernet and maybe a built in DVD Player on a low end models and a DVD Burner on the Higher end models.

[kjwebb]

It would be nice if Apple releases a box that includes:
-Digital TV Reciever (if possible, combine ATSC and DVB-T (<DVB-T used more and is better than ATSC).
-Media Player (iTunes, Quicktime)
-Safari TV (A name I thought of for a TV version of Safari)

[chriscorcoran]

It would be nice if Apple releases a box that includes:
-Digital TV Reciever (if possible, combine ATSC and DVB-T (<DVB-T used more and is better than ATSC).
-Media Player (iTunes, Quicktime)
-Safari TV (A name I thought of for a TV version of Safari)

TV Safari? Sounds a little like MSN TV? I dont think so! Steve is smarter then that. (or at least I hope his is)

[Urdam]

Maybe, but probably not come out

[jettredmont]

I so love it when people who have no idea what they're talking about start rambling on and on. What do you mean there's no difference in resolution???? Are you on drugs man??? The max that S-Video can pass is 480 interlaced scanlines compared w/ component inputs that can run 1080 interlaced scan lines.......480----1080...yeah obviuosly no difference there.


As I thought was clear through context, I am talking about standard definition video. If you are passing SDTV through a composite cable hooked up to an SVideo converter, and thence to your set, you will not lose any appreciable amount of resolution (aside from any interference the device might introduce of course). I believe this is what the original poster was talking about. While there is a minor difference in quality between component signalling and SVideo signalling, looking at them side by side it's difficult to impossible to see it. Relative to SVideo-Composite or Composite-RF there is no difference whatsoever. Likewise, on an HDTV signal, the DVI-Composite difference is thoroughly striking relative to the difference between Composite-SVideo on standard resolution.

Again, on SDTV you will have less resolution using an RF signal than an SVideo signal, and slightly less resolution using a composite signal than an SVideo signal. Your set might not show the difference between SVideo and Composite very well, but the difference between SVideo and RF should be readily apparent. Between Composite and SVideo you should have the same number of lines of resolution horizontally and vertically, which is the definition of resolution, no? However, SVideo may introduce some amount of crosstalk between its signals. Composite introduces a significantly higher bit of crosstalk between signals, which, combined with the slight resolution difference, makes the composite-SVideo gap significantly larger than the SVideo-component gap. As I said, cross-talk is primarily a problem for long cable distances. So, for this Component-SVideo box, so long as the box itself is close to the output device (TV), crosstalk should be effectively removed as an issue. Leaving, as I said, SVideo and Component Video at identical quality (and, of course, identical resolutions).

Of course it makes no sense to compare an HDTV signal of any sort to an SDTV signal. Of course the HDTV signal has better resolution. Do I really have to say that? I thought we were all reasonably intelligent here. However, if your device is emitting an SDTV signal, connecting via the component ports instead of the SVideo or composite jacks don't give you HDTV. It gives you SDTV. Through component cables.

So yes, HDTV of various flavors, and progressive scan, can all be put through composite cables as well as SDTV. I tend to doubt that a Composite-SVideo translation box as described would handle any of these variants, so the point is moot (HDTV-SDTV conversion circuitry is relatively expensive; by contrast the electronics to rig together a composite-svideo wire/signal mapping box is really cheap). Would you lose resolution taking an HDTV source into this Component-SVideo converter box and then to the TV? Yes, absolutely; you'd go from your nice clean HDTV signal to a one-pixel-by-one-pixel pure black screen!

As I noted originally, HDTV is a completely different story.

Excuse my remark about not wanting to use component with HDTV. It was obviously insensitive to those who don't have DVI ... my HDTV supports DVI input and, quite frankly, there's no way I'd buy a unit today which doesn't. Fortunately for consumers today, it seems like most of the higher-end HDTV models support DVI now. And, truthfully, component inputs/outputs haven't been out all that long either, at least not at the consumer level; there's not a large body of devices giving component signalling market momentum. If Apple or anybody were to ut out a groundbreaking device supporting HDTV, a lack of a DVI output would absolutely kill the product.

That having been said, yes, I suppose if component signals and/or component inputs are all you've got you would use good old component cables for video. Note, however, that unlike the SVideo vs Component debate, there is a real, appreciable, and frankly dramatic difference between a component signal and a DVI signal. If you are worried about the Component/SVideo translator doing injustice to your component signal, then you damn well would pay the extra bucks to get DVI-based equipment for your HDTV signals.


Sorry about taking so long to respond, and doubly sorry for writing a book in response. Hadn't looked at this thread in a while, but at least three people telling me I don't know what I'm talking about meant I had to either admit I'm a functionally illiterate moron, or clarify what I'd posted :)

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by jettredmont
Tivo doesn't do all that the rumor says Apple's device will do. Read the source.


Umm, yeah it does. Everything except for the superdrive bit. TiVo does photos, music, remote scheduling, and multi-room viewing. It even does wireless.


While I'm being pedantic ...

I admit I don't have the Home Network Option of Tivo; I have DirecTV and find the receiver/Tivo integration far more important than the HNO, and DirecTV doesn't allow Tivo's manufacturers to build an HNO-compatible DirecTV device.

That having been said, it seems to me that Tivo's networking option is signifactly slimmer than this rumor described. Can you organize photos and music on the Tivo? I thought it was read-only (I could be wrong there, though; as I said I don't have then networking option).

Obviously Tivo doesn't have the superdrive or iDVD-lite. Some would say this is rather significant. Going along with that, Tivo doesn't have a firewire port for importing video camera work (what would be the point, without an output?) It also doesn't hook up to cameras (although I suspect some of the Linux hacks of Tivos might allow for that).

And, of course, for a 120GB unit with home networking and wireless networking and presumably no monthly fee, the quoted price is significantly lower than Tivo's.

To your point, however, I think it would be more likely for Apple to get Tivo to add all these niceties into their box than to jump into the Tivo market. Unless there's some kind of bad blood between the two companies, but with Tivo's current support of Macs I don't think that's the case either. However, today, Tivo definitely doesn't support these features.

[Xenious]

Am I nuts in wanting my computer to also be a TV+Tivo? I don't really want a set-top box. I want to be able to have Tivo like functionality on my computer. Thats the one thing I can't seem to give up my Windows Media Center PC for. Sure there are mac tv products, but they don't have tuning pass through for digital cable. That seems to be what everyone misses out on (which is why I wonder if I'm a niche user need). Give me one computer which can house my MP3s, my pictures, plus act as a Tivo/Replay TV for digitial cable then let me stream it anywhere in my house via small "Extender" type boxes on my TVs. I don't want an Apple TV any more than I want a Microsoft TV. I want an apple computer that is also a TV and I want to view it on my Sony in the other room as well.

I still plan on making my "switch" once new G5's are announced (bring on 30" monitors with extremely high resolution), but I can't let go of my media center pc yet. I hate to say it, since I really love OSX and Apple's designs, but Microsoft is giving me the functionality I want with Media Center and the planned set-top extender boxes. Why can't apple??
-jim

[multimedium]

I think TiVO and Apple would make an excellent team. TiVO uses Linux, and creating a version of iTunes for TiVO would therefore be a much easier port than mac > windoze. It would be totally awesome if we could wirelessly, say through an airport, send our iPhoto pictures to our TV, as well as home movies from iMovie, and ITunes music to our TiVO.

I own a TiVO, have for years, and I have to say it changed my life - I watch less TV, but the quality of TV I watch is a hundred times better. It is already the center of our entertainment center. It would be an elegant way to stream my huge iTunes library playlists to my stereo system - sure there are ways to do that already, but I'd rather invest in something that can do more, like stream photos and movies wirelessly.

Apple and TiVO, the companies, also have similar corporate cultures from what I can tell. They are both innovators of both hardware and software. TiVO already has the connections to the satelite and cable industries for delivering content. Apple has a great set of Unix - based software, the best music download site, and of course innovative hardware design. TiVO already licenses their system to other vendors like Sony and Panasonic, why not Apple?

Plus, the "operating system" in TiVO hasn't changed much the last few years. I think something big is coming from them relatively soon.

As far as what Steve Jobs says, he's not stupid. He even said "now I'm not saying we don't have something like that in our labs" when he said he had no interest in set-top boxes. My guess? They'll do something BEYOND the definitiion of a "set top" box. They'll bring iTunes to your TV, at least, and possibly bring your Mac media to it as well.

[mvc]

As far as what Steve Jobs says, he's not stupid. He even said "now I'm not saying we don't have something like that in our labs" when he said he had no interest in set-top boxes. My guess? They'll do something BEYOND the definitiion of a "set top" box. They'll bring iTunes to your TV, at least, and possibly bring your Mac media to it as well.

Yep, this is future of the home computer. a true entertainment media communications hub, plugged into the internet 24/7 and wirelessly connected to anything with a screen or speakers.