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liptonlover
Jul 28, 2008, 08:58 AM
I can't help but notice everyone's asking for logo critique here lol. I hate to join the crowds like that but I'd like critique on my logo as well.
http://web.mac.com/lipton_lover/Eversoft/Home_files/Eversoft%20Logo.png



Mr. B
Jul 28, 2008, 09:04 AM
I'm sorry, but that's almost unreadable.

why do you have so many contrasting colors?

why do you have so many colors at all?

what's with the swastika in the background?

The text on the top is unnecessary, and the text on the bottom can't be read at all.

When designing logos the *key* thing to remember is simplicity.

Imagine it being reduced to a tiny size on a business card.

If it's not legible then it needs to be reworked.

Imagine it in black in white, and imagine it using only two or three colors.

Try and use colors that compliment each other as well.

Sdashiki
Jul 28, 2008, 09:07 AM
No offense, but is this a joke?

techlover828
Jul 28, 2008, 09:09 AM
can't say I'm a fan of the swastika

Raid
Jul 28, 2008, 09:16 AM
Um you may want to go back to the drawing board... I'm not a pro at this, but I do hang around design people... they'd probably say something like this:

1) The gradient backgrounds are generally ok, but don't translate well to print media like letter head or business cards. It's also a little dark...
2) The text at the top right looks like it would be the "message" in your brand, this would require more emphasis, a better placement (closer to your company name for instance), and rethink the font and colour
3) The colour combination of the company name and whatever those green, yellow, blue, red shapes are hard on the eye.
4) The colour, font, and size of your message on the bottom right are very difficult to read and distract from the logo.

MacBoobsPro
Jul 28, 2008, 09:19 AM
Well Lipton, its hard to know if this is serious or not as to be honest your logo is very bad... VERY bad!

First of all what is this logo for?

Second no matter what its for don't use that hideous typeface. It took me around 5 seconds to read what it says. Eversoft right? Logos need to be informative at a glance.

Thirdly don't place text - especially as complex and illegible as the typeface you have used - over another element. Logos are about communicating as much information in as simplistic a form as possible. Yours communicates nothing in the most complicated way possible.

There seems to be a swastika in there. :eek: No!

Try and create your logo in black and white to start with. This will help you in keeping it simple but also will help when it comes to reproducing the logo later on. Once you think you have something that works in black and white then you can start adding colour. But dont add too many colours 2 or 3 maximum.

Try and avoid 3D shapes unless they translate well in 2D form (I think that makes sense).

You need to think about what your logo is representing and how simply that can be shown using only a symbol or clever type. You could also just go with a nice typeface. Eversoft is a nice looking word and if displayed using a carefully selected typeface could look very well.

liptonlover
Jul 28, 2008, 09:33 AM
no, it's not a joke. Just a 5 minute first attempt.

It's not meant to be a swastika, I didn't think of that. That just managed to come out somehow when I was making it.

So...

no 3D.
Just 1-3 colors.
No swastika.
Bigger text.
No text on image.
Legible font.

Anything else? And does anyone have any ideas for shapes that DON'T represent anything bad? :D
Thanks for all the input :)

MacBoobsPro
Jul 28, 2008, 10:02 AM
no, it's not a joke. Just a 5 minute first attempt.

It's not meant to be a swastika, I didn't think of that. That just managed to come out somehow when I was making it.

So...

no 3D.
Just 1-3 colors.
No swastika.
Bigger text.
No text on image.
Legible font.

Anything else? And does anyone have any ideas for shapes that DON'T represent anything bad? :D
Thanks for all the input :)

No one can really answer the question about shapes as we dont know what the logo is for. Before you even start on the computer get a pen and paper and start writing things down (brainstorming) that relate to Eversoft. Then start linking this ideas to other things like say its a software company you could go along the lines of Eversoft > software > applications > packages. Then you can go off on a tangent and do something like Packages > mailman > UPS > delivery. Even this quick example gets me thinking about putting things into boxes and compiling code 'packages'. To show this visually you could have for example, an arrow pointing to the centre of a square. i.e. putting something into a package/box.

If you come to a dead end while brainstorming start somewhere else. Eversoft > evergreen > trees > growth > arrows > arrow pointing upwards (growth) > upside down triangle. Doing this will help you think 'laterally' and come up with something visual from even the most obscure starting points. Dont go too 'lateral' or people wont see the connection with Eversoft. You dont want to keep having to explaining why your logo features a pink monkey riding a unicycle while fishing for sea bass. There might be a link but if its too far out no one will get it.

Once you have some ideas about where to start then start scribbling some concepts down on paper. Once you think you have something good then you can take it to the computer.

Nicolecat
Jul 28, 2008, 11:35 AM
It's really hard to ask people that are very much removed from the project guidelines.

a.) Is this your company?...
b.) Are you a graphic artist?...
c.) Is this a school project?

a.)If this is your company and you feel the need to be involved in the design of the logo...and aren't a graphic artist, then it's probably best to invest in a graphic artist in your area who is willing to work one-on-one with you provided you know what you want. You need to get involved in the consumer image you want to portray.

Eversoft...is this detergent, hand soap, lotion, t-shirts, software? The logo doesn't easily make this information clear, or seperate it from any certain category. Your logo should help a consumer identify what they are looking at and should help create a differentiating "want" from competitors. I see why you added the quality apps...for free...but this should be incorporated into a tagline (Not an afterthought)

b.) If your a graphic artist...I think you should definitely do more research before providing the company with a logo proof/idea. Or...the company needs to provide you with more design feedback.

c.) If this is a school project/assignment...again, more research. Find companies you feel to be selling similar product or services. Make sure your design syncs with the category feel, but would still differentiate your "company" from others providing an adequate consumer "want" factor.

Bottom line...make it more appealing. & match the target market. :D

Nicolecat
Jul 28, 2008, 11:39 AM
no, it's not a joke. Just a 5 minute first attempt.

It's not meant to be a swastika, I didn't think of that. That just managed to come out somehow when I was making it.


Also...if you've only spent five minutes on it, then there hasn't been enough time/effort put into it.
There should definitely be more thought before putting it towards a "critique board" next time.

No hard feelings. :D

tonyeck
Jul 28, 2008, 11:47 AM
can't say I'm a fan of the swastika

:D

Always a good design recommendation - "Avoid swastika"

P-Worm
Jul 28, 2008, 01:47 PM
You made this logo in Wings3D, didn't you?

P-Worm

hayduke
Jul 28, 2008, 01:53 PM
Well, I like the name, but it took me too long to figure out what it said, which is bad. Clean things up. Make it simple, but have punch. Look at other logos you like to define/refine your style and look at logos you don't like to learn. Post version2 when you get a chance. Logos are hard work and require much more than 5 minutes. Days or weeks are not unreasonable.

IgnatiusTheKing
Jul 28, 2008, 02:26 PM
That logo would look totally rad on an Apple IIe!

ChicoWeb
Jul 28, 2008, 02:44 PM
First thing I see is the swastika.

Claytoniss
Jul 28, 2008, 05:23 PM
:D

Always a good design recommendation - "Avoid swastika"

LOL,

I am going to start to say this all the time, even if the design has no swastika!

ezekielrage_99
Jul 28, 2008, 07:24 PM
First thing I see is the swastika.

Me too, I saw a swastika. It's a really good idea to stay clear of offensive icons in a logo, not a smart concept unless your brand services skinheads.

This really reminds me of a branding overhaul I did about 12 months ago, 6 months of hard work to be destroyed when a manager handed me an "SS" looking sample from Photoshop then being told "we want this".

If you are serious about logos look at either LogoLounge (www.logolounge.com) or Logopond (www.logopond.com).

And are we being Rick Rolled here? No one could be that design inept, that logo is beyond bad.....

mpw
Jul 28, 2008, 07:28 PM
...Anything else? And does anyone have any ideas for shapes that DON'T represent anything bad?...

How about adding an 'N' to Eversoft and using a blue diamond?

TEG
Jul 28, 2008, 07:28 PM
The swastika would be OK if it was squared up, where it means peace, not sitting on the points, where it is associated with Nazisim. I would work so simplify the logo as this is not well contrasted and the background is far to busy for the foreground.

TEG

liptonlover
Jul 28, 2008, 07:43 PM
thanks macboobs, I'll definitely think it through more.

Some info:
I need something on the "sunny" side. Nothing dark and moody.
Simplicity is important.
What represents "free" as in no price??? :confused:
I think the last thing would just be quality.

Long ago I actually thought of an evergreen tree as being put in my logo, but I didn't make a logo back then and forgot. It's nice because it's consistent. Normal trees will die and become useless but an evergreen is always pretty and covered in green.

I'm pretty set on the four colors I picked. Green for evergreen trees and with green and blue because that's the primary light colors. And they go together well. Yellow because it's the color of the sun. Nice and sunny. But really it's optional.

I am kind of a graphics artist. I can do some decent 3D sketching on paper, I know my way decently around photoshop which I have the latest of, and I'm no expert but am also decent with blender3D, which is what I used to make the shapes and gradient background. I just stuck the text on top in photoshop.

When I came up with "Eversoft" I also thought of "Neversoft" but decided against it. Ever is a positive word, with the whole everlasting evergreen stuff. Never is negative though. Neversoft doesn't sound like a good company.

Someone might mistake that for the swastika, if they're just slightly ignorant. How many people know it actually means peace? also peace isn't exactly a useful "meaning" for a tiny software company.

hehehe I apologize for its' suckiness... like I said it was really a five minute thing.

mpw
Jul 28, 2008, 07:46 PM
...When I came up with "Eversoft" I also thought of "Neversoft" but decided against it. Ever is a positive word, with the whole everlasting evergreen stuff. Never is negative though. Neversoft doesn't sound like a good company...

I was kinda joking.
http://hearingmojo.com/blog-mt/images/Posts/Viagra.jpg

liptonlover
Jul 28, 2008, 07:52 PM
<_< gee thanks... yeah I'm a little slow :cool:

ezekielrage_99
Jul 28, 2008, 08:15 PM
I was kinda joking.
http://hearingmojo.com/blog-mt/images/Posts/Viagra.jpg

Hahaha that is brilliant.

ezekielrage_99
Jul 28, 2008, 09:03 PM
I am kind of a graphics artist. I can do some decent 3D sketching on paper, I know my way decently around photoshop which I have the latest of, and I'm no expert but am also decent with blender3D, which is what I used to make the shapes and gradient background. I just stuck the text on top in photoshop.


Please don't take this the wrong way but you are not a designer.

Design isn't about just knowing Photoshop or Illustrator, it's far more than that. Design is about the use of style, colour, composition and typography that brings the subject matter to life. I really don't get the logo, it doesn't say quality or software to me (others may disagree).

As for the Swastika if 9 out of 10 people see Swastika then it's a Swastika, sorry it's just that simple. When you design a logo it's a good idea to get the general feelings on the design, this is quantitative testing any good design knows this has to be done to get the best possible response for the overall branding.

A well designed logo should be clear, concise and simple yet full of substance and significance (easy to the understand concept/logic/value behind the organisation). I would have to say good logo design is good mix of the following points:
1) Has impact
2) Ties into the overall branding of an organisation (font, colour, etc)
3) Is distinctive.
4) Is timeless (doesn't date quickly or at all).
5) Simple

liptonlover
Jul 28, 2008, 09:03 PM
take two.
http://web.mac.com/lipton_lover/Site/Blank_files/eversoftlogo2.png

I have the basic 3 colors of light, an eversoft tree, readable text, and my corny company quote.
Oh yeah.... and NO swastika. :D

edit: Sorry I didn't mean to call myself a DESIGNER. I know how to use the tools.

IgnatiusTheKing
Jul 28, 2008, 09:06 PM
Simplify the tree (it doesn't need to look cartoonishly "realistic") and change the color of the text (both the name and the tag line). Blue and red don't contrast enough with green to be legible.

liptonlover
Jul 28, 2008, 09:14 PM
but am I on the right track?
I'll try other colors... does anyone have particular color ideas?
Thanks loads for your help guys :)

oh yeah... finding a different tree might be hard. This was one of the few I could find that explicitly said people have permission to use it. I don't want legal trouble and I can't draw one myself.

IgnatiusTheKing
Jul 28, 2008, 09:24 PM
finding a different tree might be hard. This was one of the few I could find that explicitly said people have permission to use it. I don't want legal trouble and I can't draw one myself.

Just use 3 triangles. Something that was suggestive of the shape of a pine tree would look a lot better than some clip art you got off the Internet, anyway.

As for color, find a single color you like, then experiment with others until you find one more that goes well with it. Then, if you must, do the same with a third color. You probably only need two, though.

liptonlover
Jul 28, 2008, 09:27 PM
I think the quote needs a different color from the title if it's going to be there. Do you think it needs to be there though?

ezekielrage_99
Jul 28, 2008, 09:48 PM
Try something like this, (sorry this is a very quick effort from stock I have sitting around)....

You need to simplify the logo that relates to the value of what the brand stands for.

liptonlover
Jul 28, 2008, 09:50 PM
I love how you just put together something better than all my efforts. The only problem is the tree isn't an evergreen.

ezekielrage_99
Jul 28, 2008, 09:56 PM
I love how you just put together something better than all my efforts. The only problem is the tree isn't an evergreen.

Thanks, but I do this everyday for a living. This was an idea, just to show how layout and simplicity can work. Look at Smashing (http://www.smashingmagazine.com) it's a great resource for design.

The best advise I can give is keep it simple.

Find one or two colours.
Find a nice font.
Then work from their.
And good logos are developed overtime, it does take time and effort to get the perfect concept.

Nicolecat
Jul 28, 2008, 10:20 PM
for color ideas...

http://kuler.adobe.com/ is a great reference tool...it offers color palates that designers have already used (or you can play and make your own)... there are cmyk values for print & rgb values for web...HSB (which I dont use), LAB, and HEX values.

It's a GREAT tool. Have fun. :D

Aperture
Jul 28, 2008, 10:24 PM
I love how you just put together something better than all my efforts. The only problem is the tree isn't an evergreen.

It really isn't that hard to simply change the tree. Besides, I think ezekielrage_99 was just trying to provide an example. Anyway, I figured I'd just change the tree anyway (hope you don't mind me playing with it, ezekiel) and made it an evergreen. I got the tree shape from a Creative Commons search for commerical works.

ezekielrage_99
Jul 28, 2008, 10:39 PM
It really isn't that hard to simply change the tree. Besides, I think ezekielrage_99 was just trying to provide an example. Anyway, I figured I'd just change the tree anyway (hope you don't mind me playing with it, ezekiel) and made it an evergreen. I got the tree shape from a Creative Commons search for commerical works.

I don't mind, the tree I used was an unused icon from a green eco report (for some reason the client didn't think it looked like a tree).

Anyway my concept was an example of what I know works from brand development POV.

hayduke
Jul 28, 2008, 11:33 PM
take two.
http://web.mac.com/lipton_lover/Site/Blank_files/eversoftlogo2.png

I have the basic 3 colors of light, an eversoft tree, readable text, and my corny company quote.
Oh yeah.... and NO swastika. :D

edit: Sorry I didn't mean to call myself a DESIGNER. I know how to use the tools.

Dramatically better. Of course, the first round was in the toilet, but this is much improved. Not done though.

Often times for logos you need to consider the media for which it will be reproduced. Is this a company that will eventually have print advertising, letterhead, or other print needs? If so the logo generally needs to look good in black and white. You need to simplify further if this is a future need.

I would also consider a simpler tree (no gradients) that can be used in place of one of the letters. I bet you can do a nice stylized tree in the place of the "f" or the "t".

Just my 2cents...Also, I'm not a designer, but I like design.

one3
Jul 28, 2008, 11:50 PM
take two.
http://web.mac.com/lipton_lover/Site/Blank_files/eversoftlogo2.png

I have the basic 3 colors of light, an eversoft tree, readable text, and my corny company quote.
Oh yeah.... and NO swastika. :D

edit: Sorry I didn't mean to call myself a DESIGNER. I know how to use the tools.

I would not qualify that as 'readable text' - it's still very tough to pick up over the tree.
Why not have the tree away from the logotype. See this logo for an example:
Tree Logo (http://logopond.com/logos/25c0ee76c2fc620fb16c8b1f9af4704f.png)

liptonlover
Jul 29, 2008, 06:55 AM
here's the next version.
http://web.mac.com/lipton_lover/Site/Blank_files/take4.png

I originally wanted to make it a banner, 720 pixels wide so that it'd fit my website perfectly. But only the first one worked for that. I think I'm going to try a side by side next. Image on the left, then the text. Would it look ok if I put another tree on the other side, or should I find another image?

liptonlover
Jul 29, 2008, 07:09 AM
... and here's a banner.

http://web.mac.com/lipton_lover/Site/Blank_files/take5.jpg

All I ned left is to add an object on the right... it looks too blank otherwise. Any suggestions?

Thanks for all this help... if I hadn't thought to ask for critique I would have ended up with a swastika on my website rofl

MacBoobsPro
Jul 29, 2008, 07:46 AM
Your tree is more like a picture than an icon. If it can be simplified do it!

Attached is a quick example of how simple it could go. One thing with this example though is it does not really identify what Eversoft does (apart from the descriptor) so maybe look at incorporating the 'digital' aspect of that by making one of the trees (or possibly all of them) out of squares to represent pixels. This will of course make the logo more complicated but it is also communicating more. Its a fine balance of simplicity and communication. With Eversoft I dont think you will get away with just showing a tree. There needs to be more to it. If Eversoft produce just iPhone apps you could incorporate the rounded square shape that is synonymous with iPhone apps like has been in earlier examples in this thread. If you hit a 'brick wall' start from scratch with a different idea. Trees may not be the way to go.

Logo design is a long process, don't be deterred and keep going. I think you can already see that what you are producing now is much better than when you started.

liptonlover
Jul 29, 2008, 08:01 AM
definitely. I wish I could think of this stuff myself though lol.

I think I need the tree... it's my most solid "symbol". But I do need another one...
I may only do iphone apps sometime in the future, but right now I don't do them at all yet, though that is my goal.
I think what I want on the right side is something that represents quality... but I don't know what represents that. I'm racking my brain... but nothing comes to mind. Actually... softpedia gave me a bugfree certificate for all of my apps... could I put that there?

MacBoobsPro
Jul 29, 2008, 08:07 AM
definitely. I wish I could think of this stuff myself though lol.

I think I need the tree... it's my most solid "symbol". But I do need another one...
I may only do iphone apps sometime in the future, but right now I don't do them at all yet, though that is my goal.
I think what I want on the right side is something that represents quality... but I don't know what represents that. I'm racking my brain... but nothing comes to mind. Actually... softpedia gave me a bugfree certificate for all of my apps... could I put that there?

No use the certificate on your website etc. Don't include it as part of the logo.

Also dont add anything to the right side. Try and think of something that visually represents apps and incorporate that into your tree (if you are keeping the tree). Like I said if you 'digitise' the tree - its quite a cliché however and I use it as just an example - then the symbol will communicate that you work in a digital environment (apps) and the tree as a whole can represent strength, growth, fresh ideas, freedom etc.

MacBoobsPro
Jul 29, 2008, 08:19 AM
This example incorporates iPhone apps in a very simplistic way.

design-is
Jul 29, 2008, 08:28 AM
I don't mean to thwart your efforts, because your getting there... But are you hell bent on doing this yourself?

I mean its all well and good asking peoples advice and its a great way to learn (if you want to) - but have you considered getting a designer to work with you on this properly?

Feel free to ignore me though, it's coming along nicely and the help everyone on this forum offers is always top notch :)

liptonlover
Jul 29, 2008, 08:28 AM
stop... you're making me wish I only do iphone apps now :D

not sure if this is what you were picturing...
http://web.mac.com/lipton_lover/Site/Blank_files/take5_1.jpg
What represents software? I suppose I could use the generic app icon, but do I just layer it over the tree like the apple?

liptonlover
Jul 29, 2008, 08:30 AM
I want to do it myself because I enjoy it, and because I can't afford to pay someone. Trying to get an ipod touch right now :D
Also doing this is a good learning experience. I love anything creative, and anything along those lines helps. But it's fine, I see where you're coming from :)

MacBoobsPro
Jul 29, 2008, 08:33 AM
I want to do it myself because I enjoy it, and because I can't afford to pay someone. Trying to get an ipod touch right now :D
Also doing this is a good learning experience. I love anything creative, and anything along those lines helps. But it's fine, I see where you're coming from :)

Take the Apple off. Apple Inc. will sue your ass and hand it back to you (in pieces through the mail slot). When I said incorporate I didnt mean literally put something in your tree I meant do something clever that will represent a tree as well as applications.

This example represents trees and art.

liptonlover
Jul 29, 2008, 08:35 AM
*slaps head* didn't think of that. <_< thanks :)

So is using the generic icon instead a good idea? Or is that suable as well?

MacBoobsPro
Jul 29, 2008, 08:43 AM
*slaps head* didn't think of that. <_< thanks :)

So is using the generic icon instead a good idea? Or is that suable as well?

No because Apple (if its the OSX one you refer to) owns it and retains copyright privileges.

liptonlover
Jul 29, 2008, 08:48 AM
<_< sometimes copyrights get sooo annoying...

So I need something either I draw myself, or something not copyrighted. It needs to reflect software/software development, and possibly apple.

MacBoobsPro
Jul 29, 2008, 08:55 AM
<_< sometimes copyrights get sooo annoying...

So I need something either I draw myself, or something not copyrighted. It needs to reflect software/software development, and possibly apple.

It doesn't need to reflect apple. You can simply mention that you specialise in Apple/OSX on your website etc.

You could just go with some nice type like Microsoft's logo. However working in app development it often pays dividends to have some form of icon that can be used within your apps and app icons for quick links to your website or updates for example. An icon can be used in smaller spaces and communicate more than just a name. Like they say, a picture paints a thousand words.

Keep at it and good luck. :)

liptonlover
Jul 29, 2008, 12:45 PM
I'm working on the banner right now because that's the one with the most space to fill, and it's easier to downsize than to upsize. But I can easily make a small square image with just the tree and company name on top as well. Nice an simple, no quote, just tree and text.

I think I have it now. The color gold symbolizes quality, to be short. So now all I need is something I can MAKE gold. I don't want the text to be gold, gold on white doesn't work too well. It has to be something over the tree.

If I register my name at creativecommons, will it be officially registered/copyrighted? I'm not quite sure how that works and I can't find anything on it anywhere, even on the website under faq.

ezekielrage_99
Jul 30, 2008, 01:15 AM
This example incorporates iPhone apps in a very simplistic way.

I have to say I really like that concept. The tree could be seen as an arrow which dictates direction and flow. Nice :cool:

And you refrained from the use of the "bad" fonts (e.g. Comic Sans and Papyrus). :D

design-is
Jul 30, 2008, 08:09 AM
I'm looking forward to seeing how this turns out now :)

"bad" fonts (e.g. Comic Sans and Papyrus). :D

Ah yes... the dreaded comic sans lol (http://bancomicsans.com/home.html)

But I have to admit, I have found a use for it ... once. :rolleyes:

Nicolecat
Jul 30, 2008, 08:25 AM
Ah yes... the dreaded comic sans lol (http://bancomicsans.com/home.html)

But I have to admit, I have found a use for it ... once. :rolleyes:

Hopefully only at the request of the client... :eek:

design-is
Jul 30, 2008, 08:46 AM
Hopefully only at the request of the client... :eek:

Yup... In a roundabout kinda way. You could say he 'asked for it' lol

ezekielrage_99
Jul 30, 2008, 07:00 PM
Yup... In a roundabout kinda way. You could say he 'asked for it' lol

If a client asked me to use Comic Sans I would flatly refuse, and yes I have done it in the past. I did loose a contract but they gained a god-awful logo with Comic Sans font, drop shadows, lens flare and the good old rainbow gradient to finish it off. And thankfully I had nothing to do with it.

design-is
Jul 31, 2008, 06:48 AM
Aaah, unfortunately I'm in no position to turn down clients or risk annoying them. One day (soon?) though, I too will be able to stand up for good design lol

Anywho, I fear we digress.

Any developments on the logo liptonlover?

MacBoobsPro
Jul 31, 2008, 07:17 AM
Im currently working on a project (newspaper) where the client has asked me to incorporate circles into every aspect of the design (picture boxes, icons, and all kinds of crap). He sent me a document of what his previous designer had done and I honestly could not make out what I was looking at. He has explained it to me and I still can't figure it out. In response to his request I spent a day critiquing the current document and why it would not work under any circumstances. The guy had used HTML colours for fecks sake. Needless to say it was a pile of poo.

I sent the unsolicited critique to the guy and I heard no response. I wasn't worried because I knew if he had the slightest bit of sense he would come back asking me to do the job. 3 weeks later he wanted to hire me. I accepted and have subsequently blown him away with my take on his requests and not a circle to be seen.

Stand up for design. It will prevail!

liptonlover
Jul 31, 2008, 07:25 AM
http://web.mac.com/lipton_lover/Eversoft/Home_files/take5.jpg

I kept the font/fontsize that no one had a problem with. The statement underneath is just times new roman. The evergreen tree goes with my name, and it represents consistency. The star represents Achievement. I could have done without the star, except that I needed something gold because gold symbolizes power, strength and perfection. I think it worked out nicely but I'm always willing to change it if you guys don't like it. And thanks again for all your help :)
Nate

InLikeALion
Jul 31, 2008, 10:20 AM
That's no times new romans :o

I think you're struggling because you think you are designing a logo, but you are designing a banner. I know, you've even said you're designing a banner ("that's what you need right now"), but you don't realize you aren't actually making a logo - you are just making a banner.

A logo should be established in one phase, and than designing the header to your website should be done in another. For instance, your little creative commons button has no business in a logo. Really, slogans probably have no business there, either - look at other software devs like Delicious Monster, Panic, MacRabbit, The Escapers, Adobe, etc... They don't include slogans as part of their logo.

You are making design decisions that are still ignoring the good advice of previous posters because you are trying to make it fit in a banner format. Stop. You need a logo that will work everywhere, including (as has been mentioned) in tighter spaces where just a mark by itself is needed. Your slogan (which doesn't need to be in a logo) is much to small to reduce to business card size. Try to think about just the logo concept, and plan on the slogan being placed somewhere on your site.

Also, I understand your reasoning for wanting gold, but right now it almost just looks like a christmas tree ornament instead of a teacher's achievement star. If you were going for that, then maybe try to play it up a bit more.

I'm honestly trying to encourage you to keep honing your skill and design - not trying to tear you down. Like has been said, logo design is a long an hard process. If you want your customers to think your apps truly are quality, nothing will first convince them like the impact of a good logo/site design. Quality is often in the details.

design-is
Jul 31, 2008, 10:55 AM
Indeed - you want a graphic, logotype (graphic with text, e.g. name of company), and finally a banner with whatever other information you want to display that supports the logo.

Jumping straight into creating a banner leads to all sorts of problems down the line.

liptonlover
Jul 31, 2008, 12:12 PM
So a banner can't have a slogan either?

What size should I shoot for for the logo?

Sorry I've gotten so many great replies it's hard to keep track of all the advice lol. I really really really appreciate all of this :)

Would a gold circle look good instead of the star? That would symbolize continuity or something like that, just like the tree. And it probably won't look so much like an ornament.

If you don't mind me asking, what would moving the star up a bit do to make it look less like an ornament?

And the cc isn't even legit, I just forgot to take it out I was playing around.

snickelfritz
Jul 31, 2008, 12:29 PM
Fundamentally, cursive fonts like Lucida Handwriting should never be used as all caps.
The typewriter text below header is not a complementary font for a cursive header.
The tree graphic resembles a construction paper Christmas card; IMO, forget about the tree graphic, and focus on what you are actually trying to convey.

It is essential to begin any creative project with a design brief.
A design brief is simply a set of constraints for the project; the elimination of variables, and all data required for the project.
This is the metaphorical "box", within which the logo is designed.


IMO, the font used for this logotype should be clean and simple.
Work initially in black and white; no grays, gradients, or raster effects.
Use a vector application such as Illustrator or Freehand; no Photoshop.
Use primary and secondary colors; avoid >= tertiary colors, unless the design is absolutely screaming for them.
Use of color in marketing is never arbitrary; it's a science.
Symbolism should be simple; clever; subtle. Otherwise forget it.
Collect professionally designed examples of what you are trying to achieve; this can be a very helpful reference.
Consider "borrowing" from the current web 2.0* design trends; consumers tend to subconsciously associate credibility with recognition.
ie: if it looks like duck, walks like a duck...
In this case, your logo design becomes a tool for creating a sense of credibility, rather than strict brand recognition, per se.
*"web 2.0" often means shiny graphics, simple fonts, rounded rectangles etc...


GL

InLikeALion
Jul 31, 2008, 03:21 PM
So a banner can't have a slogan either

It can. But you shouldn't be designing a banner until you have a logo, and the "banner" design should be informed by the logo, and also by the site you are designing.

May I ask, what exactly do you even mean by banner? As in an ad to go on other people's sites? Or do you mean just the general top of your company website?

What size should I shoot for for the logo?

I'd design it to roughly fill a 5x5" document. That doesn't mean the logo needs to be square, but that is the print size you should work from. From there, blow it up to see if it still works on a poster, and shrink it down to see if the details still hold together the size it would be on a business card. Or better yet, the small size you see those "awards" icons on designer sites - about 20x20 pixels or less.

Would a gold circle look good instead of the star? That would symbolize continuity or something like that, just like the tree. And it probably won't look so much like an ornament.

No. I think a circle will look even more like a christmas ornament.

If you don't mind me asking, what would moving the star up a bit do to make it look less like an ornament?

Moving it up will make it look more like the star on top of a christmas tree.

I agree with snickelfritz about needing a simpler font. You need to try to simplify what you are trying to fit in there. In photoshop, or whatever you are using, go ahead and resize the document to 30x30 pixels and see what it looks like. Probably indiscernible. Try to find something that can hold together when it is reduced that much, and is still recognizable and representative of your company.

liptonlover
Jul 31, 2008, 03:53 PM
mind if I ask where you got that cool shape from?
Custom shapes look good, and it gives you uniqueness. But how do you just come up with one? And is it better than symbolism?

photoshop is all I have... unfortunately.

The banner would be for my website. I can't afford to pay to get it on other websites, so it's unlikely it ever WOULD end up there.

30x30 seems pretty darn small... I can't think of where something that small would be unless I decided to use my logo as an icon, which I wouldn't do...

snickelfritz
Jul 31, 2008, 05:06 PM
mind if I ask where you got that cool shape from?
Custom shapes look good, and it gives you uniqueness. But how do you just come up with one? And is it better than symbolism?

photoshop is all I have... unfortunately.

The banner would be for my website. I can't afford to pay to get it on other websites, so it's unlikely it ever WOULD end up there.

30x30 seems pretty darn small... I can't think of where something that small would be unless I decided to use my logo as an icon, which I wouldn't do...

I'm assuming you're referring to the symbol I posted.
I made it in Illustrator.
It's essentially three rectangles subtracted from a square to form the subtle "E" and "S" combination, for EverSoft. (Look at it again carefully, in case you missed it)

Photoshop can be used to design logos, but it's not the ideal tool for the job.
In Photoshop, draw the logo using the path and pen tools.
Once it is complete, convert the text layers to shapes, and save the entire object as a custom shape.
This way you have quick access to a scalable vector logo, in the custom shape tool list.

liptonlover
Jul 31, 2008, 05:20 PM
I wish I could come up with that... I fail miserably in the creativeness department. If I can't come up with something, do I have permission to use it? With credit given to you, of course. I hope I can come up with something but it's really not likely lol.

Thanks!

snickelfritz
Jul 31, 2008, 05:41 PM
I wish I could come up with that... I fail miserably in the creativeness department. If I can't come up with something, do I have permission to use it? With credit given to you, of course. I hope I can come up with something but it's really not likely lol.

Thanks!

Go ahead and use it if you like.
Illustrator file is attached.
File > Place to place this into your Photoshop document.

liptonlover
Jul 31, 2008, 05:53 PM
so I have a whopping huge 5x5 canvas. I have an awesome black symbol thanks to snickelfritz that I will use at least for now, what next? If I do text over image I need to introduce a third color, as the symbol is black and the background is white. Should I do a cool inverted black and white thing with the text so it always shows up?

InLikeALion
Jul 31, 2008, 06:06 PM
so I have a whopping huge 5x5 canvas. I have an awesome black symbol thanks to snickelfritz that I will use at least for now, what next? If I do text over image I need to introduce a third color, as the symbol is black and the background is white. Should I do a cool inverted black and white thing with the text so it always shows up?

No. Don't do Text over the symbol. No one has advised you to do that. Why not just go with Snickelfritz' suggestion? If you want to try to do the typography yourself, look at the examples that have been given. Pick a nice sarif or san-sarif font and don't do anything crazy with it. You already have a memorable mark - try to subdue your typography.

IgnatiusTheKing
Jul 31, 2008, 06:08 PM
snickelfritz-

Your logo is a little too close for comfort to another hated symbol...

http://textrapolate.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/439px-enron_logo.png

liptonlover
Jul 31, 2008, 06:11 PM
I had fun doing the inversion.... oh well.
I'm reading back I don't see any suggestions on where to put the text...

why is that a hated symbol, and I don't think it's too close to comfort... though I may change my mind when I find out what enron is.

snickelfritz
Jul 31, 2008, 06:11 PM
This is approximately what I would do with it.
http://www.byrographics.com/AS3/ESHeader.jpg
Place your site navigation along/just below the bottom edge of the colored header.

GL

snickelfritz
Jul 31, 2008, 06:16 PM
snickelfritz-

Your logo is a little too close for comfort to another hated symbol...

http://textrapolate.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/439px-enron_logo.png

LOL, good call!
http://www.byrographics.com/AS3/ESHeader2.jpg

Actually I was thinking it looked a little bit like sun microsystems.
http://www.byrographics.com/AS3/sunMS.png

liptonlover
Jul 31, 2008, 06:20 PM
That looks neat snickelfritz but you're sending mixed messages now. I thought I should work on a 5x5 logo before making a banner?
Also I'm not quite sure the coloring on your banner would fit my site, as my site is greys for the most part.

http://web.mac.com/lipton_lover/Eversoft/Home.html

(ignore the apple pictures, I know I need to take them down I'll do that today.)

snickelfritz
Jul 31, 2008, 06:49 PM
I think I've missed something here; why do you need to work on a "5x5 logo"?
(not sure what "5x5" is referring to; certainly not pixels)
I agree that the logo needs to be a separate design issue.
Since this is essentially the main logo application AFAIK, the banner might as well be a part of the basic logo design process.

The background of the site banner could be any interesting grayscale image that contrasts with the white logo. (I would recommend that you at least consider this approach for a grayscale site, as apposed to the large white area and dark colored logo)
IMO, your existing site banner and logo are far too large for what is technically blank (wasted) vertical space.
80-120 pixels is more than adequate for a logo and banner.

BTW, judicious use of color is an excellent technique for attaching significance to certain objects in a grayscale environment!
Experiment with color! People like color.

liptonlover
Jul 31, 2008, 07:02 PM
inlikealion~"I'd design it to roughly fill a 5x5" document. That doesn't mean the logo needs to be square, but that is the print size you should work from. From there, blow it up to see if it still works on a poster, and shrink it down to see if the details still hold together the size it would be on a business card. Or better yet, the small size you see those "awards" icons on designer sites - about 20x20 pixels or less."

For the banner when I get there I will incorporate color and put the text on the right side. For the logo I will have the text underneath and it will be B&W.

snickelfritz
Jul 31, 2008, 07:18 PM
Ideally, Photoshop logos should be created as smart objects or custom shapes.
This allows the logo to be scaled without interpolation for various applications.
(regardless of how large you author a Photoshop logo, if it is purely pixel-based, it will not scale well)

The real upside of Photoshop custom shapes is that your scalable logo is always available in the custom shapes tool!
ie: select the custom shape tool; choose the logo from the list of shapes; click-shift-drag to quickly create a high quality logo of any size.:)
Edit: attached is the es symbol as a photoshop shape.
To use it, simply unzip it to the desktop and load it using the shapes palette menu.
(creating shapes is easy if you have Illustrator; simply copy the object in AI, then paste it in Photoshop, choosing "shape" as the option in the resulting paste dialog.)

InLikeALion
Aug 1, 2008, 12:17 AM
Ideally, Photoshop logos should be created as smart objects or custom shapes.
This allows the logo to be scaled without interpolation for various applications.
(regardless of how large you author a Photoshop logo, if it is purely pixel-based, it will not scale well)

My 5x5" recommendation wasn't meant to be a raster size for the logo (notice I never mentioned dpi), rather a good size to work at, both generally on screen (don't work too tiny, or too zoomed in the whole time) and for printing proofs to see how it works on paper. I whole-heartedly agree that it should be done as a vector shape instead of pixel-based.

design-is
Aug 1, 2008, 08:10 AM
Depending on how much you want to get into this...

I would say ignore the current website. Do an exercise in branding your company, then style and design everything in line with the brand you have created.

Figure out your unique selling point, target audience, background, aim, ethos & ethics, tone of voice etc... Then apply them to the creative process to produce a logo that conveys these values.

Then, move on to re-design your website (including banner) in line with the same brand values. Then everything should (if done correctly/well) seem like a coherent entity - instead of a website, a banner inserted to the top section, some unconnected software products, with a logo floating around.

Hope that makes sense.


-EDIT- You may want to read this - I liked it :) (http://superfluousbanter.org/archives/2008/06/some-thoughts-on-logo-design/#more)

digitalpencil
Aug 1, 2008, 10:49 AM
lots of people seem to have given you some good advice here as, no offense, your previous attempts thus far have been aesthetically shot.
The key to logo design is to create something simple, instantly recognizable and sizeable.
The following is a list of 50 really good designs:
http://www.fuelyourcreativity.com/50-kick-ass-logos-for-inspiration/

ezekielrage_99
Aug 3, 2008, 07:29 PM
snickelfritz-

Your logo is a little too close for comfort to another hated symbol...

I was thinking the Sun logo, either way it looks kind of cool.

InLikeALion
Aug 5, 2008, 01:53 PM
Have you made any progress?