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View Full Version : Does Apple need to Step up and make ATV better or are we good enough?




MLC4SGR
Jul 31, 2008, 11:40 AM
Every time I turn around I see another product trying to compete in this market, but Apple clearly has a great product and huge head start, but why are they leaving this "hobby" product in the dark lately. Look at this:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10003525-1.html?tag=nefd.riv

Should we be hoping that we have a great big news update coming soon?

The future of movies is streaming. Just feeling shocked that this amazing product isn't being poised to be the next "iPod" for the company.



Peace
Jul 31, 2008, 11:44 AM
There will be updates in the future and contrary to what Jobs and company say the AppleTV isn't just a "hobby".

The success depends on corporate deals with distributors and movie/tv production companies.

TEG
Jul 31, 2008, 11:47 AM
The Apple TV already does streaming. If I had a faster computer, it was a desktop, and I had taken the time to rip more Movies or movies purchased from iTunes had all the extras that DVDs had I'd be more inclined to own an :apple:TV. It would also help if it were to work with my TV, as I only have composite video, and it is only a 13" screen. When I get a new TV, I'd be more inclined to get an :apple:TV and when my parents upgrade their TVs, I'll get them to buy an :apple:TV. But then again, I have a TiVo, so most of the what the :apple:TV would be useful for me is dealing with iTunes files.

TEG

Mindflux
Jul 31, 2008, 11:49 AM
The next logical step would be for apple to replace the AppleTV with a media pc that can also act as a PVR. The AppleTV doesn't have the horsepower to do PVR function, especially HD PVR.

TEG
Jul 31, 2008, 12:13 PM
While a DVR/PVR would be the next step, I really hope they don't. If Apple really wants to get into the DVR realm, I would hope that they would just buy TiVo. Like Apple is the Best in the PC, Phone, and PMP world, TiVo is the best in the DVR world.

TEG

ayale99
Jul 31, 2008, 03:41 PM
I don't understand why people keep thinking that the AppleTv will have DVR???
Thats not Apple's buisness model. They want you to buy/rent TV shows & movies from iTunes.

If they let you DVR your shows & movies on AppleTV, then you won't be buying them from iTunes...thus Apple won't be making continuous money off you.

As much as I would like to see DVR in the AppleTV, I doubt it's ever going to happen.

Mindflux
Jul 31, 2008, 03:44 PM
I don't understand why people keep thinking that the AppleTv will have DVR???
Thats not Apple's buisness model. They want you to buy/rent TV shows & movies from iTunes.

If they let you DVR your shows & movies on AppleTV, then you won't be buying them from iTunes...thus Apple won't be making continuous money off you.

As much as I would like to see DVR in the AppleTV, I doubt it's ever going to happen.

TiVo makes their money by selling you a subscription to their guide. Without it you have no guide. That's 13/mo from TiVo. That's continuous revenue!

Tilpots
Jul 31, 2008, 03:54 PM
I don't understand why people keep thinking that the AppleTv will have DVR???
Thats not Apple's buisness model. They want you to buy/rent TV shows & movies from iTunes.



I"M SO SICK OF THIS ARGUMENT!!!!

Sorry to shout but I'm so tired of people claiming to know Apple's business plans. I really don't want to single you out ayale99, I hear it from a lot of people here. But really, unless you can show me pics in the boardroom of you and Steve with your arms around each other holding the Apple playbook, I don't want to hear this argument ever again, from anyone!:mad:

[/rant]

On a lighter note, I hope we're due for some big time changes to the :apple:TV in the very near future. I hadn't thought about Apple buying Tivo, but this could be a great fit. Something to think about...:)

fvalle24
Jul 31, 2008, 04:27 PM
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ayale99
Jul 31, 2008, 04:47 PM
I"M SO SICK OF THIS ARGUMENT!!!!

Sorry to shout but I'm so tired of people claiming to know Apple's business plans. I really don't want to single you out ayale99, I hear it from a lot of people here. But really, unless you can show me pics in the boardroom of you and Steve with your arms around each other holding the Apple playbook, I don't want to hear this argument ever again, from anyone!:mad:

[/rant]


No offense taken, but for arguments sake...it's freaking obvious from a business stand point. You don't need to be in the boardroom or hold any playbook to see that a DVR in AppleTV would cannibalize iTunes sales. Apple is NOT going to let you record shows for free that they want you to buy from iTunes. Even an idiot can see that.

By the way, I never claimed to know Apple's business plans. As for their BUSINESS MODEL, that is clear for everyone to see.

ayale99
Jul 31, 2008, 04:53 PM
TiVo makes their money by selling you a subscription to their guide. Without it you have no guide. That's 13/mo from TiVo. That's continuous revenue!

OK, so you're saying that if AppleTV has a DVR, they will make you pay a monthly fee to use it. Makes sense.

Besides MobileMe, are there any other Apple services that require a monthly fee?

AND, if you are willing to pay a monthly fee for something, wouldn't you rather pay a monthly subscription fee for unlimited access to iTunes (like the Netflix business model) instead of a monthly fee for DVR use? I would. I'd rather cut the cable companies off.

Mindflux
Jul 31, 2008, 04:57 PM
AND, if you are willing to pay a monthly fee for something, wouldn't you rather pay a monthly subscription fee for unlimited access to iTunes (like the Netflix business model) instead of a monthly fee for DVR use? I would. I'd rather cut the cable companies off.

While that would be nice, cutting off my cable tv while keeping my cable internet causes the internet fee to go UP. (package deals get discounts). So unless a model like this would save me the additional costs of my broadband internet without cable I see no point. Furthermore there are talks of providers charging a premium for users who access more then "X GB" a month. So that'll throw a service like you are pitching through a loop real fast.

That and the whole.. "hey I cant watch TV if my cable internet is dead"... yet my cable tv still works. possibility.

Virgil-TB2
Jul 31, 2008, 05:14 PM
No offense taken, but for arguments sake...it's freaking obvious from a business stand point. You don't need to be in the boardroom or hold any playbook to see that a DVR in AppleTV would cannibalize iTunes sales. Apple is NOT going to let you record shows for free that they want you to buy from iTunes. Even an idiot can see that.

By the way, I never claimed to know Apple's business plans. As for their BUSINESS MODEL, that is clear for everyone to see.Well it might help if he explained rather than just getting mad at you, but I think the argument is something like this:

A DVR would cannibalise iTunes sales a bit, but iTunes sales aren't what Apple cares about. The content companies care about iTunes sales, Apple just wants content to be available, so they can sell hardware (Apple TV).

So a move like that would only help Apple's hardware sales.

On the other hand though, it would seriously cheese-off the content providers, as would including an optical disc in the thing which would immediately be used to rip DVD's.

Apple's decision here, is a kind of balancing act. The content providers are basically sticking it to them right now anyway, so maybe now is the time to stop worrying about keeping Universal happy, and instead make the customers happy and sell more product. On the other hand, maybe they can turn the content providers attitude completely around by threatening to include optical drives and DVR capability in the Apple TV.

We will have to wait for the result unfortunately, but word has it that there are versions of Apple TV "in the labs" at Apple that have all these things. It's only a matter of deciding the strategy and what they will release. We might see Apple TV's with all kinds of new features soon, or they may never get out of the lab.

PROJECT359
Jul 31, 2008, 05:25 PM
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I love it just the way it is.

Tilpots
Jul 31, 2008, 06:13 PM
No offense taken, but for arguments sake...it's freaking obvious from a business stand point. You don't need to be in the boardroom or hold any playbook to see that a DVR in AppleTV would cannibalize iTunes sales. Apple is NOT going to let you record shows for free that they want you to buy from iTunes. Even an idiot can see that.

By the way, I never claimed to know Apple's business plans. As for their BUSINESS MODEL, that is clear for everyone to see.

Virgil-TB2 is right, and I do apologize for getting upset, I should have explained myself better (I have often in other forums on this matter and when I saw that post it just got to me).

A DVR in no way shape or form would hurt Apple or iTunes. It will only help. All the major networks, especially with the looming Digital Transition, will be beamed into most homes for free, in HD. What you will need is some way to record these shows if you don't have a Tivo, cable box or satellite. All of these are paid services. A DVR in the :apple:TV would be free. People could then cancel their subscriptions to these paid services if they wish and then buy or rent the other content from iTunes. It is the a la carte dream of many people who hate their pay-for-everything and watch-very-little subscription services.

Content providers will then be forced to offer their shows on iTunes because a massive amount of people will cancel their cable and satellite subscriptions, which is the only way their shows are available to a mass market. Take HGTV, for example. They sell advertising based on the number of people watching their shows. If half of their audience drops off, then advertisers will only pay half as much for commercials. They need their viewers so they can sell ad space, so they add their shows to iTunes and can then sell ads based on the numbers of viewers (which will be way more accurate than Nielsen) If they don't add their shows to iTunes, Design on a Dime becomes Design on a Nickel.

The only hang-up here is live programming. That is the biggest hurdle I see for this scenario. I want my ESPN and can't get it any other way than cable. If they solve this problem thru streaming or the like, it's over for cable and satellite, and it's iTunes FTW.

cubbie5150
Jul 31, 2008, 06:46 PM
Not huge deal, but I'd really like to have a digital audio Coax output as an option......

zedsdead
Jul 31, 2008, 07:29 PM
I don't understand why people keep thinking that the AppleTv will have DVR???
Thats not Apple's buisness model. They want you to buy/rent TV shows & movies from iTunes.

If they let you DVR your shows & movies on AppleTV, then you won't be buying them from iTunes...thus Apple won't be making continuous money off you.

As much as I would like to see DVR in the AppleTV, I doubt it's ever going to happen.

Also, Apple has stated many times that they do not make much from iTunes, and that iTunes only exists to sell hardware, ie. iPods, Apple TV's, and iPhones etc...

Apple recently published a patent for a DVR and it is one of the major feature requests. Imagine being able to offload recorded shows right to your iTunes library and sync with you devices. Also, as Apple showed in the patent, you could control what records straight from your iPhone/iTouch.

The Apple TV needs a major kick in the rear, and fast if it plans to keep up with the other offerings. Remember, Netflix is now a major player in the downloads, plus Sony is jumping in with the PS3 now.

A DVR would separate it from the bunch, on top of all the other cool things it can do.

It also needs its own Touch screen remote (bluetooth enabled vs. Wi-Fi), a much better Photo program, better processor/graphics card so it can output 1080p, and larger hard drive space.

tronic72
Aug 2, 2008, 08:39 AM
No offense taken, but for arguments sake...it's freaking obvious from a business stand point. You don't need to be in the boardroom or hold any playbook to see that a DVR in AppleTV would cannibalize iTunes sales. Apple is NOT going to let you record shows for free that they want you to buy from iTunes. Even an idiot can see that.

By the way, I never claimed to know Apple's business plans. As for their BUSINESS MODEL, that is clear for everyone to see.

I agree that it's not part of their business model. We all know they want to make money from selling content. We all know they make very little money on the Apple TV and the recent price reduction was subsidised by the studios getting on board with content. I agree that this is currently how it is but.......

As a Mac Fan. I use PCs. My Company support PCs (Specialising in Macs). I use Vista. I built a Vista Media Centre and the reason is simple. The windows media centre supports recording of TV!!!!

If Apple add that feature (not saying they will or won't) that gives customers yet another reason to go for the Apple TV instead of spending heaps of time and frustration with a media centre. No one can deny, the Apple TV just works , doing what it does, very ,very well. It's so "typically Mac" in that respect.

They bowed to public pressure /listened to their customers, by adding 5.1 surround and I think it was brilliant that they did. It was the ONLY thing I hated about my ATV. (see my posts). Oh yeah, that and the poxy little remote control because the family loose it daily :)

It think we need to be careful to differentiate between a wish-list (fairy tales stuff) and features that "could" be added. For example, adding a blue-ray player to the Apple TV is the stuff of fairy tales. The reason being, it would make more sense to simply add them to the Macs, to be shared to the Apple TV. It would also put the price through the roof.

Adding PVR capabilities is quite doable, a simple hardware update could easily allow the ATV to record TV, thus making Vista Ultimate eat dirt. I'm sure many customers would spring for a "Apple TV PVR" upgrade. Remember the Apple TV has all the jacks to connect to a TV, it would only need an aerial socket, and off you go. The TV tuner card in my Media Centre is tiny and gives of very little heat, making it perfect for the ATV

My 2c

Edit: As far as the remote goes. It think the silly little remote is good thing. Even though I hate it. It's good because it simply works and keeps the cost of the unit down. I see the iPhone filling this void (zedsdead). The iphone, as a remote, could very easily be the best remote around soon. Imagine when (not if) they tied to iPhone to the Apple TV as a remote, coupled with PVR capabilities, users could record their favourite shows while being on the other side of the world via the iPhone "remote control" program.

It's all possible!