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View Full Version : Volkswagen unveils new Concept T Crossover at 2004 Detroit Auto Show


clubmedia
Jan 5, 2004, 12:49 PM
http://www.vwsites.com/news/news_images/concept_t/concept_t_6.jpg

more pictures and info here (http://www.vwsites.com/news/concept_t.php)

think this thing will get the go ahead?

edesignuk
Jan 5, 2004, 12:54 PM
I dunno, looks ok, I think they should go with this though...

http://upload.edesignuk.net/uploaded_data/smilies/smilie_drool.gif
http://highresautoimages.com/volkswagen/w1210.jpg
The W12 (http://highresautoimages.com/volkswagen/w12.html)

http://upload.edesignuk.net/uploaded_data/smilies/smilie_duhh.gif

Kwyjibo
Jan 5, 2004, 12:56 PM
the first one kind of looks like the warthog from halo

cubist
Jan 5, 2004, 01:21 PM
I like edesignuk's better.

The first one looks like the VehiCross, which was discontinued after a short, unsuccessful run. The driver's view out the front is very poor; it looks like he would be hitting a lot of shopping carts and other objects.

wdlove
Jan 5, 2004, 01:33 PM
It kind of reminds me of a toad. The futuristic doors are nice.

The car that is posted by edesignuk, looks like a very sleek race car. It appears that red is a very popular color.

edesignuk
Jan 5, 2004, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by Kwyjibo
the first one kind of looks like the warthog from halo
dammit! I knew it looked familiar!

but anyway, I do like it, but, it looks to stylized if you know what I mean. Like everyone would love it for a few months, it'd be very cool to drive about in...then everyone would get sick of it (as with all fashions) and you'd never be able to sell it!

true777
Jan 6, 2004, 08:42 AM
jeez. talk about midlife crisis cars.
What a contrived, convoluted, ridiculous thing.

iGav
Jan 6, 2004, 09:06 AM
VW produce some really interesting design studies, yet when it comes to building production cars, inevitably they're the most boring, bland things on the road...

it's quite incredible really, just look at the 2004 Golf.... :rolleyes: the only thing which looks as bland is the 2004 Vauxhall Astra which looks alittle too similar to both the '04 Golf and current Corolla.... :eek: :p bland, boring, and dated even before they're released.

Mr. Anderson
Jan 6, 2004, 09:22 AM
Originally posted by iGAV
VW produce some really interesting design studies, yet when it comes to building production cars, inevitably they're the most boring, bland things on the road...


Actually, have you seen a Tuareg? They're not all that bad looking, inside and out.

Also, I'd not call the new Beetle bland ;)

D

eyelikeart
Jan 6, 2004, 09:31 AM
It's a good thing they're called "concepts." In a lot of cases, they're hideous. :eek:

iGav
Jan 6, 2004, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by Mr. Anderson
Actually, have you seen a Tuareg? They're not all that bad looking, inside and out.

Also, I'd not call the new Beetle bland ;)

D

There's nothing inherently wrong with the Touareg, although isn't exactly oozing design innovation, it's smart enough, but very bland aesthetically, bit boring....

The new Beetle is a good example what VW could do, the same with the MicroBus that is due into production, but these are specialty products, with a limited target market, VW's mainstream models just lack that something....

bousozoku
Jan 6, 2004, 09:47 AM
Originally posted by iGAV
VW produce some really interesting design studies, yet when it comes to building production cars, inevitably they're the most boring, bland things on the road...

it's quite incredible really, just look at the 2004 Golf.... :rolleyes: the only thing which looks as bland is the 2004 Vauxhall Astra which looks alittle too similar to both the '04 Golf and current Corolla.... :eek: :p bland, boring, and dated even before they're released.

I don't see the whole exterior of my Golf while I'm driving, so it's not even a concern. :D It's how it feels that matters.

I like the first concept but it may grow old too quickly. The second concept looks more like something they planned for Bentley.

iGav
Jan 6, 2004, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by bousozoku
I like the first concept but it may grow old too quickly. The second concept looks more like something they planned for Bentley.

See if the Bentley had have looked like that, then that would have been great.... instead VW weaved their considerable 'dullness' :eek: :p :p and created the current Coupe instead, a design which looks like it should sport a MG/Rover badge... :eek: :p :p :p

job
Jan 6, 2004, 03:07 PM
what about the vw concept roadster...the 'concept r?'

i'm pretty sure that isn't bland.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1007329

http://vwvortex.rely.net/artman/uploads/001__scaled_600_004.jpg

job
Jan 6, 2004, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by edesignuk
I dunno, looks ok, I think they should go with this though...

seeing as vw now has the rights to lamborghini via audi i wouldn't be surprised to see that concept rebadged as one.

job
Jan 6, 2004, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by iGAV
it's quite incredible really, just look at the 2004 Golf.... :rolleyes: the only thing which looks as bland is the 2004 Vauxhall Astra which looks alittle too similar to both the '04 Golf and current Corolla.... :eek: :p bland, boring, and dated even before they're released.

heh, i don't care how bland the golf looks like.

just give me a r32 golf with it's 3.2l VR6 engine (240hp.) in a car that size...*drool*

:p

x86isslow
Jan 6, 2004, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by job
what about the vw concept roadster...the 'concept r?'

i'm pretty sure that isn't bland.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1007329

http://vwvortex.rely.net/artman/uploads/001__scaled_600_004.jpg

reminds me of the mazda rx8

http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/images/photographs/pho_veh_gallery_RX8_exterior02_lg.jpg

Zeke
Jan 6, 2004, 06:33 PM
Originally posted by x86isslow
reminds me of the mazda rx8


Except better looking...

Why can't the designers making the concept cars work on the production models too...some of these are awesome...and the "Warthog" would be really cool if it handled like the one in Halo. Maybe if I flip it I can turn it over by hand too. That'd be nice.

pseudobrit
Jan 6, 2004, 07:14 PM
Originally posted by bousozoku
The second concept looks more like something they planned for Bentley.

Not possible as the W12 concept predates the RR-Bentley split.

It was unveiled in 1998, I think.

manitoubalck
Jan 6, 2004, 07:42 PM
Are yes, the W12, with how many camshafts? 8 or 4:confused:. Quite an interesting development in conventional engine design.

scem0
Jan 6, 2004, 08:36 PM
I say bring on the concept T prototype.

We have enough race car looking cars.

scem0

bousozoku
Jan 6, 2004, 11:25 PM
Originally posted by manitoubalck
Are yes, the W12, with how many camshafts? 8 or 4:confused:. Quite an interesting development in conventional engine design.

I would say four since the VR6 has two and the W12 isn't much more than two VR6 engines.

Awimoway
Jan 7, 2004, 12:27 AM
Originally posted by iGAV
. . . the MicroBus that is due into production . . .

I hadn't heard it was going into production. Are you sure?

That would be sweet. Daddy (me) wants to avoid a minivan at all costs.

iGav
Jan 7, 2004, 05:05 AM
Originally posted by job
what about the vw concept roadster...the 'concept r?'

i'm pretty sure that isn't bland.


it isn't bland... it is however a concept.... ;)

My earlier point stands, VW produce superb design studies and concepts, yet this hardly ever (exception being the new Beetle which is a specialist retro-niche model anyway) filters down into production models... their current range is just........ alittle grey. :eek: :p

As for the R32.... wouldn't you rather have an Alfa Romeo 147 GTA with one of the worlds greatest sounding V6 engines punching out 250BHP and a Lambo Muria inspired interior....?? serious pedigree ;)

cubist
Jan 7, 2004, 07:46 AM
Alfa Romeo! Argh! None of the really good sports cars make it to the US. It's a euro-conspiracy! When I was a kid I always wanted an MGB or an MGB-GT.

bousozoku
Jan 7, 2004, 09:19 AM
Originally posted by cubist
Alfa Romeo! Argh! None of the really good sports cars make it to the US. It's a euro-conspiracy! When I was a kid I always wanted an MGB or an MGB-GT.

It's hardly a conspiracy. There were many interesting European brands here through the mid-1980s but they were so unreliable that people stopped bothering to buy. Japanese cars became more interesting and were certainly reliable.

I think anyone who has owned an Alfa Romeo, Fiat, Renault, Peugeot, Citröen, MG, Austin, Jaguar, or Jensen back then can give you at least a dozen horror stories.

I wanted a Fiat X1/9 so badly or even a Triumph TR7 but what did you see by the side of the road far too often?

It's still nice to look at the photos, though. :)

iGav
Jan 7, 2004, 09:33 AM
Originally posted by bousozoku
It's hardly a conspiracy. There were many interesting European brands here through the mid-1980s but they were so unreliable that people stopped bothering to buy. Japanese cars became more interesting and were certainly reliable.

I think anyone who has owned an Alfa Romeo, Fiat, Renault, Peugeot, Citröen, MG, Austin, Jaguar, or Jensen back then can give you at least a dozen horror stories.

I wanted a Fiat X1/9 so badly or even a Triumph TR7 but what did you see by the side of the road far too often?


:p :p :p

Alfa were particualrly bad, I still can't believe they hooked up with Nissan and a bloody Cherry at that.... :eek: :rolleyes: :p

Alfa only recently has begun to get it's act together (late 90's) look at Lancia though, they pulled out of everywhere except Italy/parts of Europe.... although they're rumoured to making a comeback too.

What's really quite alarming is that Citroen, a company once famed for it's quirky innovation and styling have turned into the worst car company in the WHOLE OF THE WORLD.... their current range is just terrible.... TERRIBLE.... even more bland than VW's range, and not just bland, terminally fugly too.... They're trying to change it with the new C2 but that still doesn't make up for the very nasty C5.... :eek: Renault are the new Citroen.

You know things are askew though, when Volvo's are considered funky! :eek:

I do quite like the Skoda Octavia concept though.... they're heading in the right direction if you ask me... shame about the Skoda part though... heheh

iGav
Jan 7, 2004, 09:41 AM
Originally posted by Awimoway
I hadn't heard it was going into production. Are you sure?

That would be sweet. Daddy (me) wants to avoid a minivan at all costs.

I thought it was in '05

http://money.cnn.com/2002/08/23/pf/autos/microbus/

will it look anything like this though???

Awimoway
Jan 7, 2004, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by iGAV
I thought it was in '05

http://money.cnn.com/2002/08/23/pf/autos/microbus/

will it look anything like this though???

Ah. Cool. Very cool.

I would imagine that the exterior will be pretty much the same, since it will fit into that novelty auto category like the Beetle. But no guarantees about how much the interior will be the same. I imagine they will try to stay at least a little bit faithful to the original microbus concept with the rubber floormats and folding table. But I have my doubts about the wacky shifter. And I hope the vidscreens are only an option.

bousozoku
Jan 7, 2004, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by iGAV
:p :p :p

...
I do quite like the Skoda Octavia concept though.... they're heading in the right direction if you ask me... shame about the Skoda part though... heheh

Obviously, we're never going to agree on looks. I find the Octavia quite revolting. It's a Toyota Echo, Nissan Maxima, and BMW 5-series all rolled into one.

Speaking of VW brands, I liked Seat tremendously when they were free of Fiat. They're still interesting.

Citröen needs another SM-type car. ;) Of their later cars, the BX was more than acceptable, even if it was a Peugeot. There was only one French car I would have considered, a 5 (Le Car later in the U.S.A.) With that roll back top, it was a pleasant city car. They were too frequently on the side of the road, though.

iGav
Jan 7, 2004, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by bousozoku
Citröen needs another SM-type car. ;) Of their later cars, the BX was more than acceptable, even if it was a Peugeot. There was only one French car I would have considered, a 5 (Le Car later in the U.S.A.) With that roll back top, it was a pleasant city car. They were too frequently on the side of the road, though.

Citröen's fall from graze has been quite bizarre.... they've always had that quirkyness about them DS, 2CV even the XM, but now... their mid-range it truly terrible.... you just wouldn't buy one, Renault have taken their design mantle especially with the new Megane and Scenic.

The BX was a a great handling car, (my friends dad has a GT) but they fell apart all the time, and it appeard at a similar time to Fords Sierra which in my opinion is the birth of the modern aerodynamically (read jelly mould) developed mass produced family car, and the BX dated instantly.

Funny what you said about the 5 though, we had one back in the early 80's, and the thing was always breaking down, smoke from under it's bonnet, and the brakes used to seize all the time... (it was only a couple of years old too :eek: )

how'd you know so much about euro cars anyway? :)

bousozoku
Jan 7, 2004, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by iGAV

...

how'd you know so much about euro cars anyway? :)

For the longest time, I've read Car, Top Gear, and even Auto, Motor & Sport (German) along with Japanese magazines Carboy and Motor Fan. Besides, back in the 1970s, I found my two favourite cars: Lotus Europa and Jaguar XKE. They've been passed technically but for aesthetics and balance, I think they've not been surpassed.

Shame about the Sierra. They used to sell it here as the Merkur XR4Ti with a turbocharged Pinto engine. Wasn't the Rover SD1 out prior to the Ford Sierra? If so, you might want to revise your modern aerodynamic beginnings. ;)

pseudobrit
Jan 7, 2004, 07:45 PM
Originally posted by bousozoku
I would say four since the VR6 has two and the W12 isn't much more than two VR6 engines.

The new VR6 is 24v, not 12. That means eight camshafts and 48 valves.

bousozoku
Jan 7, 2004, 08:33 PM
Originally posted by pseudobrit
The new VR6 is 24v, not 12. That means eight camshafts and 48 valves.

That means you've added one more possibility--unless of course, you have the specifications. ;)

x86isslow
Jan 7, 2004, 08:55 PM
Originally posted by Zeke
Except better looking...

Why can't the designers making the concept cars work on the production models too...some of these are awesome...and the "Warthog" would be really cool if it handled like the one in Halo. Maybe if I flip it I can turn it over by hand too. That'd be nice.

did you just say that the thing was better looking than the rx 8 :eek: thats like saying the dellpod is better looking than the ipod! damn german copiers.. taking the mazda design.:rolleyes:

Zeke
Jan 7, 2004, 09:02 PM
This probably has 6 cams...2 for each cylinder head (that's where the W comes from). This is of course just from a general knowledge of engines and no specific knowledge of whatever engine they put in here. A W12 is not really 2 engines side by side...it's more like 2 V8 smashed together sharing the inner cylinders. So there's 4 | 4 | 4. It's not like squishing 2 v6's together like some people think. Anyone know if it has variable valve timing? That'd get rid of all the cams if so...

And yes I thought the VW R was much better looking than the RX8. The 8 just has awkward curves whereas the R is just sleek looking (more like the Mazda 6 in the front end).

Zeke
Jan 7, 2004, 09:05 PM
Actually I just found a picture of the engine and it is to v6's put together. I can't figure out why it's a W then. Strange...

bousozoku
Jan 7, 2004, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by Zeke
Actually I just found a picture of the engine and it is to v6's put together. I can't figure out why it's a W then. Strange...

You might check out the W8 animation to see how things work. It's pretty interesting/odd.

I just saw that VW also has a W10 TDI for the Touareg. I'm assuming that's made with the V5s which never made it to the U.S.A.

iGav
Jan 8, 2004, 05:20 AM
Originally posted by bousozoku
For the longest time, I've read Car, Top Gear, and even Auto, Motor & Sport (German) along with Japanese magazines Carboy and Motor Fan. Besides, back in the 1970s, I found my two favourite cars: Lotus Europa and Jaguar XKE. They've been passed technically but for aesthetics and balance, I think they've not been surpassed.

Shame about the Sierra. They used to sell it here as the Merkur XR4Ti with a turbocharged Pinto engine. Wasn't the Rover SD1 out prior to the Ford Sierra? If so, you might want to revise your modern aerodynamic beginnings. ;)

The SD1 was a 4 door carbon copy of the Daytona though, not breaking new ground aerodynamically or in it's construction.

The Sierra was the first 'jelly-mould' family car to break from the conventional 3 box format and is (in Europe atleast) arguably the most influential family car of the last 25 years.

Everyone copied that cars 'jelly mould' aesthetic (especially the Japanese) although it took Austin Rover awhile to dump the 3 box format but they were basing there cars of the time on the boxy Honda's.

But clear evidence can be seen in the difference from the Mk 2 Cavalier to the Mk 3 in '88. All family cars to that point were boxy as in comparison Audi's, VW's, Renaults, Peugeot's, Austin Rovers, FIAT's even BMW's and Mercedes, the Sierra changed all that in one swoop, the family car landscape had changed.

The Lotus Europa, I'd forgotten about that... the major influence in the snout of the Elise... :)

iGav
Jan 8, 2004, 05:35 AM
Originally posted by bousozoku
You might check out the W8 animation to see how things work. It's pretty interesting/odd.

I just saw that VW also has a W10 TDI for the Touareg. I'm assuming that's made with the V5s which never made it to the U.S.A.

That engine is a corker, knocking out only 313bhp but a huge 553lb ft of torque meaning that the Touareg was until the release of the Audi A8 V8 Twin Turbo Diesel the fastest Diesel in the world. :eek:

cubist
Jan 8, 2004, 07:55 AM
One of my neighbors has a Lotus Europa, but he hardly ever drives it.

I don't like all those camshafts and pushrods. I thought the "coming thing" was solenoid-operated valves...

gtrinity
Jan 8, 2004, 08:13 AM
I say build it. I've been looking for the perfect all around vehicle for a while now, and that's the closest thing I have seen yet. I want one!!!!

gtrinity
Jan 8, 2004, 08:14 AM
Hmm...... The picture didn't attach right.

zimv20
Jan 8, 2004, 12:44 PM
you guys know about the VW 1L (100 km on 1 litre of fuel) prototype, right? 272 mpg on its 100 km demo drive, iirc

http://www.auto123.com/ArtImages/15160/02.jpg

link (http://www.auto123.com/fr/info/news/prototype,view,Volkswagen.spy?artid=15160)

pseudobrit
Jan 8, 2004, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by Zeke
This probably has 6 cams...2 for each cylinder head (that's where the W comes from). This is of course just from a general knowledge of engines and no specific knowledge of whatever engine they put in here. A W12 is not really 2 engines side by side...it's more like 2 V8 smashed together sharing the inner cylinders. So there's 4 | 4 | 4. It's not like squishing 2 v6's together like some people think.

But you're wrong. It is two VR6 engines side by side.

It's 3|3|3|3. So it's a "W". (note W <--- four lines) And I found have found documentation that it has four valves per cylinder run via four chain-driven camshafts. It's an extremely complex design, and nothing surprises me.

Zeke
Jan 8, 2004, 10:34 PM
Originally posted by pseudobrit
But you're wrong. It is two VR6 engines side by side.

It's 3|3|3|3. So it's a "W". (note W <--- four lines) And I found have found documentation that it has four valves per cylinder run via four chain-driven camshafts. It's an extremely complex design, and nothing surprises me.

Yeah, I posted that I was wrong...the W is misleading because it's the 3 tops (cylinder heads) to the W that made me think that is was 4 4 4. Oh well...

pseudobrit
Jan 8, 2004, 10:34 PM
Originally posted by zimv20
you guys know about the VW 1L (100 km on 1 litre of fuel) prototype, right? 272 mpg on its 100 km demo drive, iirc


That's a fatastic concept. Beats the hell out of these 500hp+ gas hogs and SUV concepts being cranked out. You wanna talk performance? How about being able to drive over 1000 miles on $5 of fuel? THAT's performance. There was another high-mileage concept in a two-door Audi A2ish shape that pulled down high mileage numbers also, but was more do-able in production. Something around 80+ if I recall correctly.

pseudobrit
Jan 8, 2004, 10:39 PM
Originally posted by Zeke
Yeah, I posted that I was wrong...the W is misleading because it's the 3 tops (cylinder heads) to the W that made me think that is was 4 4 4. Oh well...

What'll really cook your noodle is the W18 used in a Bugatti concept.

It's three banks of 6 cylinders each. Essentially, it was 6 3-cylinder Lupo engines welded together, two lengthwise and three banks of them.

bousozoku
Jan 8, 2004, 10:49 PM
Originally posted by pseudobrit
But you're wrong. It is two VR6 engines side by side.

It's 3|3|3|3. So it's a "W". (note W <--- four lines) And I found have found documentation that it has four valves per cylinder run via four chain-driven camshafts. It's an extremely complex design, and nothing surprises me.

He corrected himself more than 24 hours before your post. Trying to help your post count? :rolleyes:

zimv20
Jan 8, 2004, 11:54 PM
Originally posted by pseudobrit
There was another high-mileage concept in a two-door Audi A2ish shape that pulled down high mileage numbers also, but was more do-able in production. Something around 80+ if I recall correctly.

yeah, both VW and Audi have had 3L cars in production for a while now (works out to 80-something mpg). of course, they're not available in the US.

like the 1L prototype, they're diesel.

pseudobrit
Jan 9, 2004, 01:33 AM
Originally posted by bousozoku
He corrected himself more than 24 hours before your post. Trying to help your post count? :rolleyes:

WTF is your problem? Not everyone can read every post as it happens, and his correction was ambiguous. He said he couldn't figure out how it was a W, and I explained.

I could give a **** what my post count is, thankyouverymuch. You're the one who's worried about it. I elaborated on the design, and cleared up the confusion over the number of cams.

{this space reserved for some nasty words that would get me banned}

pseudobrit
Jan 9, 2004, 01:37 AM
Originally posted by bousozoku
I just saw that VW also has a W10 TDI for the Touareg. I'm assuming that's made with the V5s which never made it to the U.S.A.

There is no such thing. It's a V10, two banks of five cylinders.

pseudobrit
Jan 9, 2004, 01:39 AM
Originally posted by zimv20
yeah, both VW and Audi have had 3L cars in production for a while now (works out to 80-something mpg). of course, they're not available in the US.

like the 1L prototype, they're diesel.

I own a TDI ;) So I know all about the 3L cars.

The car I speak of was a sporty little number, a coupe that was quite quick if I remember. I *think* it was 2L car.

[edit] It was featured in a few German car mags awhile back -- a three seat coupe that gets 117 US mpg (2L/100km) Nicew looking and quick enough, too, due to lightweight materials.

zimv20
Jan 9, 2004, 01:56 AM
Originally posted by pseudobrit
I own a TDI ;) So I know all about the 3L cars.


oh yeah, i'd forgotten. if you'll recall, i've one also. never mind that the damn thing caught fire a few weeks ago...


[edit] It was featured in a few German car mags awhile back -- a three seat coupe that gets 117 US mpg (2L/100km) Nicew looking and quick enough, too, due to lightweight materials.

sweet. post a link if you find one.