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MacRumors
Jan 5, 2004, 02:12 PM
Today, Cornic introduced a 2.0 GB
"Storage Element" (http://www.macminute.com/2004/01/05/cornice) (PDF (http://www.corniceco.com/news/PDF_releases/cornice_se_2GB.pdf)). The new storage device "will allow electronics device manufacturers to build new pocket-able products that store more music, video, and pictures as well as more office productivity files such as presentations and word processing documents."

The 2.0GB Storage Element is available in volume quantities now for a list price of $70 per unit in quantities of 100,000 per year.

These 2.0GB drives may be one of the last pieces of the Mini iPod rumor puzzle that has taken over the Mac-web in the past few weeks. We had previously noted (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/12/20031229170731.shtml) Cornice as a potential source of inexpensive drives for the upcoming iPods (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/12/20031229032549.shtml).

Flowbee
Jan 5, 2004, 02:13 PM
So 2 of these drives in the 4gb model?? ;)

ddbean
Jan 5, 2004, 02:14 PM
...crossing fingers, toes...

dho
Jan 5, 2004, 02:15 PM
Hmm, I wonder which computer company will be using them first.

thats a tough one

TheT
Jan 5, 2004, 02:18 PM
So there they are, the mini iPods... too bad, one suprise less tomorrow. I bet Apple's not happy they made it official today rather than tomorrow :)

ibookin'
Jan 5, 2004, 02:20 PM
Haha. I just submitted the Ars Technica article, and when I refreshed macrumors.com, I saw that it had already been posted. Ars speculates on this drive going to the iPod themselves.

The Ars Technica Article (http://www.arstechnica.com)

Waluigi
Jan 5, 2004, 02:22 PM
Hopefully this will drive the prices down and capasity up for the USB flash drives. $70 for 2GB in the flash market is unheard of by a long shot. Maybe a little competition of mini hard drives will make that a reality.

--Waluigi

steadyeddie
Jan 5, 2004, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by Flowbee
So 2 of these drives in the 4gb model?? ;)

Why not 4? or 6? Introducing... the iPod RAID! ;)

pkscout
Jan 5, 2004, 02:23 PM
But at $70 in quantity for just the drive, I don't see how Apple can hit that $100 range we've been hearing about. Maybe $150 or $200, but it'll cost more than $30 to add the electronics, manufacture it, and distribute the thing.

Some_Big_Spoon
Jan 5, 2004, 02:23 PM
Has to be said: Seems a strange coincidence that these are "officially" announced (though info has been widely avail. for a bit) the day before MacWorld..
:rolleyes:

lem0nayde
Jan 5, 2004, 02:24 PM
So - if the drives are $70 a unit. I guess the miPods won't be coming in at $100. That can't leave room for much profit. Looks like $150 - 200 is more likely.

Am I wrong? I know nothing of these things.

Kid Red
Jan 5, 2004, 02:24 PM
So $70 retail would be what, close to $50 wholesale maybe? If true maybe Apple can get slow to $99, maybe $129 or something?

Flowbee
Jan 5, 2004, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by steadyeddie
Why not 4? or 6? Introducing... the iPod RAID! ;)

...iRAID

srobert
Jan 5, 2004, 02:25 PM
Reading the article I don't see the word: "DRIVE" anywhere. Only: "STORAGE Device/Element" Anyone has an idea if this will be made of platters and heads?

Awimoway
Jan 5, 2004, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by TheT
I bet Apple's not happy they made it official today rather than tomorrow :)

If I were Steve, I would keep my cheeks planted on the meditation rug all day long before a Keynote so that I didn't have to hear about all the leaks. Maalox moment, anyone?

bobindashadows
Jan 5, 2004, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by pkscout
But at $70 in quantity for just the drive, I don't see how Apple can hit that $100 range we've been hearing about. Maybe $150 or $200, but it'll cost more than $30 to add the electronics, manufacture it, and distribute the thing.

If I remember correctly, the bulk price for the drive of the original iPod was the same as the iPod itself, meaning Apple got some good deals.. (God knows they weren't selling them at a loss)

ViRGE
Jan 5, 2004, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by srobert
Reading the article I don't see the word: "DRIVE" anywhere. Only: "STORAGE Device/Element" Anyone has an idea if this will be made of platters and heads?
Ars says it's a hard drive, just simpler than the microdrives that have composed earlier products.

dongmin
Jan 5, 2004, 02:29 PM
$70 seems pretty expensive. Could Apple get a discount for maybe ordering 500,000 or one million or them???

If the HD alone cost $70, then we're talking at least $150, I'm guessing.

IndyGopher
Jan 5, 2004, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by Kid Red
So $70 retail would be what, close to $50 wholesale maybe? If true maybe Apple can get slow to $99, maybe $129 or something?
I don't think retail buyers would cotton to having to buy 100,000 of them.. a year.. but maybe I'm just a cheapskate.
That price is already wholesale. (and contractual, to boot)

KLFloyd
Jan 5, 2004, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by TheT
So there they are, the mini iPods... too bad, one suprise less tomorrow. I bet Apple's not happy they made it official today rather than tomorrow :)

Yep, can you see Steve's face as he opens up the MacRumors site today. You KNOW he looks at the major rumor sites prior to his Keynote to see what's leaked.

Bet he's pissed.

gunb0y
Jan 5, 2004, 02:31 PM
$129 sounds about right... to most people they don't see $129 and being much more then $100. I think thats exactly what i would pay for a 2 gig ipod (as long as it had the same features as the regular ones).

andyduncan
Jan 5, 2004, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by srobert
Reading the article I don't see the word: "DRIVE" anywhere. Only: "STORAGE Device/Element" Anyone has an idea if this will be made of platters and heads?

Cornice doesn't like to call them drives, as basically all they are is a platter and a head. Marketing-babble aside, they are hard drives, just stripped down to the essentials.

ddbean
Jan 5, 2004, 02:31 PM
At $70 for 100,000/yr, I wonder what the price is for 1,000,000/yr?

srobert
Jan 5, 2004, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by IndyGopher
I don't think retail buyers would cotton to having to buy 100,000 of them.. a year.. but maybe I'm just a cheapskate.
That price is already wholesale. (and contractual, to boot)

Maybe Apple could have an even better deal by purchasing 10x more (1,000,000) a year. My bet is that Apple could sell more that a million minipod a year if they're anything similar to their big brother iPod.

EDIT:

ddbean, you beated me to it by a second ^_^

Phatpat
Jan 5, 2004, 02:34 PM
If I remember correctly, when the original iPods were announced, the drives were selling for $399, the same as the iPod itself. I'm sure Apple can find a way to make it work.

dongmin
Jan 5, 2004, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by bobindashadows
If I remember correctly, the bulk price for the drive of the original iPod was the same as the iPod itself, meaning Apple got some good deals.. (God knows they weren't selling them at a loss) Toshiba sold a retail version of the original iPod HD, not wholesale, for $399 when the iPod debuted.

And this $70 figure is for orders of 100,000, so we're talking cost to manufacturers, not retail. Of course, it's possible that Apple gets a better deal for whatever reasons.

IndyGopher
Jan 5, 2004, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by ddbean
At $70 for 100,000/yr, I wonder what the price is for 1,000,000/yr?
I would imagine not a whole lot less. Possibly 15-20%. I wonder how many Apple would feel comfortable committing to? One is tempted to hope that they commit to a ton of them, if only to see what other cool gadget they could come up with to use them in if sales were not as robust as they predicted.

Lanbrown
Jan 5, 2004, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by Kid Red
So $70 retail would be what, close to $50 wholesale maybe? If true maybe Apple can get slow to $99, maybe $129 or something?

That's $70 for quantities over 100,000 per year. That is not retail. Remember, they sell these drive to be used in devices which means its not a retail item or packaging.

Here is the exact wording:
"The 2GB Storage Element is available to manufacturers for US$70 per unit in quantities of 100,000 per year."

Wonder Boy
Jan 5, 2004, 02:43 PM
mini ipod or not, i want a pocket size storage device >128mb.

the_mole1314
Jan 5, 2004, 02:45 PM
Wow. That's freaky..... anyway. For some odd reason I have a feeling that this is coincidence and has nothing to do with the miniPod. It's just a gut instinct, but I more than likely, this is it.

Gizmotoy
Jan 5, 2004, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by KLFloyd
Yep, can you see Steve's face as he opens up the MacRumors site today. You KNOW he looks at the major rumor sites prior to his Keynote to see what's leaked.

Bet he's pissed.

I Bet Not. If this is indeed for the rumored new iPods, then he has no reason to be pissed. Look at the PDF closely.

"EMBARGOED UNTIL JAN. 5, 2004". It seems more likely that they wanted this released today. How hard would it have been to have them embargo it until tomorrow?

Of course, we could be way off base and this drive is intended for some other upcoming CES device. It seems likely its one or the other, given the release was Embargoed.

neilw
Jan 5, 2004, 02:48 PM
I'm pretty impressed with that pricing. They figure to sell a whole heck of a lot of those things, and not just for miPods.

They have the potential to be just awesome for digicams. I wonder what their power consumption is like?

Y'know, with a product like this on the market, Apple almost *has* to make a mini iPod, because other manufacturers will most assuredly be coming up with their own versions using this type of drive. Should be fun tomorrow...

bdkennedy1
Jan 5, 2004, 02:49 PM
Hey Steve. I want to watch video on my iPod :)

Sailfish
Jan 5, 2004, 02:50 PM
It's too bad Apple couldn't corner the market on these things for at least a year so the mini-iPods could become the dominant low end player.

Apple beat them with the iPod, but it won't happen again.

Fool them once..

pkradd
Jan 5, 2004, 02:53 PM
The Cornice announcement is in regards to their appearance at CES this week. If these drives were to be in the new iPod the announement would have surely been delayed until tomorrow after the keynote to promote it on their website as well. The cache of having the drive in an iPod would have been great for the company.
No, this drive is not going into a miniPod.

If the device does have a HD drive it will be the new one inch Toshiba. Apple's relationship with them has been very profitible for both parties and they wouldn't go elsewhere at this time I believe. Also Toshiba can provide high production and relatively low cost.

20 hours to go.

ccuilla
Jan 5, 2004, 02:54 PM
I don't believe that $100 is a realistic (or necessary) price-point for Apple to hit with miniPod. $149 and $199 for 2GB and 4GB, respectively would be just fine.

These price-points, combined with 8X the storage of competitve products, combined with Apple iPod coolness, combined with use of the top digital music store...Apple takes the low end now.

FlamDrag
Jan 5, 2004, 02:54 PM
Read carefully, $70 is not "retail" at quatities of 100,000. Not by my standards anyway. :)

I suspect that Apple, is purchasing more than 100,000 so I wouldn't be shocked to hear that they got a slightly better prices - $65 or so depending on various things.

However, I don't expect the $5 to end up in our pockets, but in Apple's.

I agree, I don't expect a device under $150. Realistically, $199.

arn
Jan 5, 2004, 02:54 PM
http://www.corniceco.com/download/CorniceMarketingBrochure_2.0.pdf

More info

arn

srobert
Jan 5, 2004, 03:01 PM
Originally posted by arn
http://www.corniceco.com/download/CorniceMarketingBrochure_2.0.pdf

More info

arn

Now at least we know what it looks like and how big it is.

And a this size: (42.8mm x 36.4mm x 5mm) It looks smaller than the actual Toshiba drive. Lower voltage and weight too. ^_^

sparks9
Jan 5, 2004, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by pkradd
The Cornice announcement is in regards to their appearance at CES this week. If these drives were to be in the new iPod the announement would have surely been delayed until tomorrow after the keynote to promote it on their website as well. The cache of having the drive in an iPod would have been great for the company.
No, this drive is not going into a miniPod.


lol don't be so sure! Noone knows. ?

Finiksa
Jan 5, 2004, 03:14 PM
Hmmm, wonder where Cornice got that idea from ;)

ThomasJefferson
Jan 5, 2004, 03:14 PM
Sitting at the computer, credit card in hand.

autrefois
Jan 5, 2004, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by KLFloyd
Yep, can you see Steve's face as he opens up the MacRumors site today. You KNOW he looks at the major rumor sites prior to his Keynote to see what's leaked.

Bet he's pissed.

Hi Steve! :)

This might actually be planned, especially seeing as this is an official announcement by the manufacturer. If it will actually go into the mini-iPods, announcing today gets people more excited about the mini-iPod possibility. Look at how many people are replying to this thread! :)

That helps both Apple and the manufacturer, whether it turns out to be a mini-iPod or another product. And if it's not going to be used by Apple, then Cornice is wittingly or unwittingly getting a LOT of attention thanks to the keynote being tomorrow.

All eyes will definitely be on the keynote tomorrow, and not just Mac people either...

luiss
Jan 5, 2004, 03:18 PM
Even if a $70 2GB drive was too expensive for a $100 iPod, remember that cornice does have a 1GB drive which might be available for $50 (thier target price at some point) or less.
So, maybe a $100 iPod w/ 1GB and a $150ish iPod w/2GB ?

Waluigi
Jan 5, 2004, 03:21 PM
Most people who will be buying the mini iPods (if they are not just vaporware) do not visit mac rumor sites (this is based on my observation of people who own only iPods vs. apple computers, please don't flame). So, it really doesn't spoil the suprise for most of the consumers of this product, thus it really doesn't matter if cornice publically announces the drives today, yesterday or last month.

--Waluigi

hughdogg
Jan 5, 2004, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by arn
http://www.corniceco.com/download/CorniceMarketingBrochure_2.0.pdf

More info

arn

What's up with this quote, "-1,200 songs in WMA at 64Kbits/sec or 600 songs at 128Kbits/sec" in the spec's section of the PDF?

If this was going into a mini-pod, it should say MP3 or AAC as well...unless Cornice's sales and marketing people are idiots...

I don't know if this is confirmation, I tend to agree with pkradd on this. Me thinks there is some "irrational exuberance" around these mini-pods...but I hope I'm wrong.

Snowy_River
Jan 5, 2004, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by pkradd
...
If the device does have a HD drive it will be the new one inch Toshiba. Apple's relationship with them has been very profitible for both parties and they wouldn't go elsewhere at this time I believe. Also Toshiba can provide high production and relatively low cost.

20 hours to go.

Well, I'd think that they'd go elsewhere if Toshiba didn't have the product that they wanted and someone else did. There is a bit of self-interest in most businesses...

ramallite
Jan 5, 2004, 03:30 PM
Just my thoughts based on this forum:

1- expect $129 at least - don't forget that not only is the drive around $70, but a lithium ion battery would add at least $30 wouldn't it? A cell phone battery is ~ $50 retail....

2- 2GB = ~1.85 useable = >400 songs

3- Are people assuming that a "mini" ipod is actually going to be smaller in size than the current ones? Despite some rumors, I really don't think so. I think the superb scroll wheel, screen size, and MAYBE a removable battery (given the smaller drive size) will keep the form factor and size pretty close to the current one, which is an excellent design anyway IMHO.

4- Availability in 1-3 weeks, to ramp up production + new ads in time for superbowl and pepsi promotion.

5- still can't imagine this thing in colors!

lind0834
Jan 5, 2004, 03:31 PM
I disagree with who ever was saying that Apple needs to jump on these drives and make an MP3 player to beat everybody else to the market.

There were hard drive based mp3 players years before the iPod, they were all just a little bigger, and had an unusable UI.

Unfortunatly, since other companies have now had time to rip off the iPod it puts some pressure on Apple to create something worthwhile. Anybody actually interested in a Dell DJ Micro? There's no way these companies who put so much effort in trying to make an iPod killer would be able to turn thier products around quick enough to compete with a 2gig iPod even if the miniPods were still a few months off.

crees!
Jan 5, 2004, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by bdkennedy1
Hey Steve. I want to watch video on my iPod :)

Do you want your vision to get worse than it probably already is? I think you'd be cross-eyed before the movie was over.

crees!
Jan 5, 2004, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by ramallite
Just my thoughts based on this forum:

1- expect $129 at least - don't forget that not only is the drive around $70, but a lithium ion battery would add at least $30 wouldn't it? A cell phone battery is ~ $50 retail....

As stated before and I read this as well orginal iPods were sold at the same price as the harddrive. There was no markup for the other pieces.


2- 2GB = ~1.85 useable = >400 songs


That's roughly 40 records. Enough to keep your ears busy on the go.


3- Are people assuming that a "mini" ipod is actually going to be smaller in size than the current ones? Despite some rumors, I really don't think so. I think the superb scroll wheel, screen size, and MAYBE a removable battery (given the smaller drive size) will keep the form factor and size pretty close to the current one, which is an excellent design anyway IMHO.


2GB's compared to 40GB's sounds "mini" to me. Have you seen the actual iPod battery? I have and I don't see how it can be made for easy replacement by your average user.


4- Availability in 1-3 weeks, to ramp up production + new ads in time for superbowl and pepsi promotion.


I can't wait for the superbowl/pepsi promotion.


5- still can't imagine this thing in colors!

Colors could be okay but the earphones would have to match too. Personally I dig the white as it automatically screams iPod.

thatguy_youknow
Jan 5, 2004, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by ramallite
2- 2GB = ~1.85 useable......



Where does "usable" come from. Nearly the entire 2,000,000,000 bytes will be usable. The reason that a computer would only see more around 1.86 Gb is because it has to think of everything in divisons twos (bianary).

In the math world prefixes change every 1,000 or 10 to the third. So 2 Billion bytes equals 2 Gigabytes. In the computer world prefixes change every 1,024.

Sooooo......
2 Billion bytes in Math = 2 Million Kilobytes = 2,000 Megabytes = 2 Gigabytes.
2 Billion bytes to a computer = 1.953125 Million Kilobytes = 1,907.3486 Megabytes = 1.862 Gigabytes

15% of the drive space doesn't just magically disappear when you initialize a drive/disk nor does it need to be taken to make up the file system.

It has been this way forever and ever. The computer company's advertise the amount of bytes to make the drive seem larger then it really is. Why adverstise that something has a capacity of 1.862 Gigabytes when you can use a loophole and a disclaimer to advertise 2 Gigabytes.

It also applys to ram. Notice ram chips come in divisions of two. I recall my old machines would have 2 meg chips.... then 4 meg chips.... then 16 meg chips.... then 32 meg chips.... then 64 meg chips.... then 128...256...512....1024...2048...4096...blah blah blah.

pbreit
Jan 5, 2004, 04:03 PM
I expect they will use Hitachi's 1 inch, 2 and 4 gig drives which have been on the market awhile, are proven and probably cheaper than Cornice's.

I also expect pricing in the $149 and $199 range. $100 is way too aggressive.

Alos, Jobs' comment that iTMS is a money loser is just a ploy to make the standalone services look like dead ends. iTMS could generate over $500 million in sales next year with most of Apple's $100 million take being profit.

ramallite
Jan 5, 2004, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by thatguy_youknow
Where does "usable" come from. Nearly the entire 2,000,000,000 bytes will be usable. The reason that a computer would only see more around 1.86 Gb is because it has to think of everything in divisons twos (bianary).

In the math world prefixes change every 1,000 or 10 to the third. So 2 Billion bytes equals 2 Gigabytes. In the computer world prefixes change every 1,024.

Sooooo......
2 Billion bytes in Math = 2 Million Kilobytes = 2,000 Megabytes = 2 Gigabytes.
2 Billion bytes to a computer = 1.953125 Million Kilobytes = 1,907.3486 Megabytes = 1.862 Gigabytes

15% of the drive space doesn't just magically disappear when you initialize a drive/disk nor does it need to be taken to make up the file system.

It has been this way forever and ever. The computer company's advertise the amount of bytes to make the drive seem larger then it really is. Why adverstise that something has a capacity of 1.862 Gigabytes when you can use a loophole and a disclaimer to advertise 2 Gigabytes.

It also applys to ram. Notice ram chips come in divisions of two. I recall my old machines would have 2 meg chips.... then 4 meg chips.... then 16 meg chips.... then 32 meg chips.... then 64 meg chips.... then 128...256...512....1024...2048...4096...blah blah blah.

... hence a very eloquent explanation of why a 2GB drive will actually be 1.86GB "seeable" by the iPod, so songs can "use" 1.86GB not 2GB hence my choice of the word "useable". Since we're being nit-picky here I assume by (bianary) you meant "binary" ? :D

bobindashadows
Jan 5, 2004, 04:22 PM
Originally posted by thatguy_youknow
Where does "usable" come from. Nearly the entire 2,000,000,000 bytes will be usable. The reason that a computer would only see more around 1.86 Gb is because it has to think of everything in divisons twos (bianary).

In the math world prefixes change every 1,000 or 10 to the third. So 2 Billion bytes equals 2 Gigabytes. In the computer world prefixes change every 1,024.

Sooooo......
2 Billion bytes in Math = 2 Million Kilobytes = 2,000 Megabytes = 2 Gigabytes.
2 Billion bytes to a computer = 1.953125 Million Kilobytes = 1,907.3486 Megabytes = 1.862 Gigabytes

15% of the drive space doesn't just magically disappear when you initialize a drive/disk nor does it need to be taken to make up the file system.

It has been this way forever and ever. The computer company's advertise the amount of bytes to make the drive seem larger then it really is. Why adverstise that something has a capacity of 1.862 Gigabytes when you can use a loophole and a disclaimer to advertise 2 Gigabytes.

It also applys to ram. Notice ram chips come in divisions of two. I recall my old machines would have 2 meg chips.... then 4 meg chips.... then 16 meg chips.... then 32 meg chips.... then 64 meg chips.... then 128...256...512....1024...2048...4096...blah blah blah.

Easy way to sum this up:
2 Gigabytes (GB) = 1.86 Gibibytes (GiB).

Unfortunately, the industry uses GB for everything.

splashman
Jan 5, 2004, 04:32 PM
Originally posted by TheT
So there they are, the mini iPods... too bad, one suprise less tomorrow. I bet Apple's not happy they made it official today rather than tomorrow :)

Assuming the Cornice drive is actually going to be used in the miniPod, do you really think Cornice would dare take a deep breath without written authorization from SJ?

jettredmont
Jan 5, 2004, 04:34 PM
Originally posted by pbreit
I expect they will use Hitachi's 1 inch, 2 and 4 gig drives which have been on the market awhile, are proven and probably cheaper than Cornice's.


Ummm .. no.

Hitachi drives are in the $300-400 range for 4GB, $150-200 range for 2GB, wholesale.

Cornice drives are significantly simpler than Hitachi (and, presumably, Toshiba) mini drives. That's why they're less expensive.

splashman
Jan 5, 2004, 04:36 PM
Everybody remember this from NeatGecko?

And now for the size: NO 2BG (weak) Apple will show off a nice 4.5 GB in multiple colors. 2 models in muli color is a nightmare. They will have the one size only.

Here's my favorite part:

If I am wrong I will eat my right hand.

I imagine he'll be typing a lot slower after the keynote.

jettredmont
Jan 5, 2004, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by crees!
As stated before and I read this as well orginal iPods were sold at the same price as the harddrive. There was no markup for the other pieces.


The original Toshiba 1.8" drives sold for the same price as the iPod. However, Apple didn't buy them for that much (obviously). A good guess is that Apple got $50-75 off the price fo the Toshiba drives and sold their original iPod models at a small profit (someone with access to the Q1 2002 financials might be able to come up with a better guess of profit per unit sold on the 5GB 1G iPods).

Since then, Apple has cut manufacturing costs (removed the mechanical scroll wheel, for one, which should have cut costs), and Toshiba has increased the capacity of their drives. These cost reductions weren't passed on to consumers because, basically, there was no need to; Apple took the market and has shown no signs of losing it.

Now, assuming a $50 "other stuff" production cost, I'd guess a Cornice-based iPod might run around $149. This would be a $65 drive plus $50 battery and casing and electronics, plus $35 profit per unit.

The miniPod pricing will be interesting, and somewhat telling, I should think.

jettredmont
Jan 5, 2004, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by srobert
Reading the article I don't see the word: "DRIVE" anywhere. Only: "STORAGE Device/Element" Anyone has an idea if this will be made of platters and heads?

The Cornice storage element is based on hard drive technology, but significantly simplified (3 screws instead of 25, I think their press says). Thus, yes, there are platters and heads.

Ling
Jan 5, 2004, 05:00 PM
I think it'd be great if Apple put the mini drive in the existing iPod and then used the extra space for a bigger battery. I can't picture the iPod getting physically smaller and keeping its interface.

The Cornice drive is 1.7x1.4x0.2 in. So, let's say that the iPod would need to be 2x2x.5 in. On my 2G iPod, the scroll wheel and buttons themselves at 2x2. The 3G layout is bigger. And...well...I just don't see such a small form for the mini iPod. I think mini refers to capacity.

I guess we'll all find out tomorrow!

lewellyn
Jan 5, 2004, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by ramallite
1- expect $129 at least - don't forget that not only is the drive around $70, but a lithium ion battery would add at least $30 wouldn't it? A cell phone battery is ~ $50 retail....

Yes, cell phone batteries are outrageously expensive in comparison to their wholesale costs. I know that the wholesale costs for my phone's battery is in the $10 range. Go to a store and buy one and you'll be paying $60...

Keep in mind that retail prices include mark-up on every level, since everyone's in business to make money. From the manufacturer overseas, to the importer, to their distributors, to the wholesalers, to the retail chains. Most products have a lot of middlemen before they hit a retail shelf or find their way into another product.

Just an aside, the $70/pc for 100,000 units? If they end up being sold to end-users, I highly expect that to be more in the $200-250 realm or higher. "Ask what the market will bear..."

--Lewellyn

P.S. If there actually is a "MiniPod" announced tomorrow, I'll be glad to buy it if it's reasonably priced. I'm not against companies taking their profits, as long as I don't feel ripped off. :D

geerlingguy
Jan 5, 2004, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by Flowbee
...iRAID


But then pacifists would have a field day with Apple... :D

dongmin
Jan 5, 2004, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by jettredmont
The original Toshiba 1.8" drives sold for the same price as the iPod. However, Apple didn't buy them for that much (obviously). A good guess is that Apple got $50-75 off the price fo the Toshiba drives and sold their original iPod models at a small profit (someone with access to the Q1 2002 financials might be able to come up with a better guess of profit per unit sold on the 5GB 1G iPods).

Since then, Apple has cut manufacturing costs (removed the mechanical scroll wheel, for one, which should have cut costs), and Toshiba has increased the capacity of their drives. These cost reductions weren't passed on to consumers because, basically, there was no need to; Apple took the market and has shown no signs of losing it. Not to belabor the point, but the $399 price for the Toshiba drives were RETAIL, not wholesale. We have no idea how much Toshiba charged Apple for the original batch of drives. I assume it was fairly high in the beginning as Apple only moved a few hundred thousand units the first year. And we obviously have no idea how much the final mark-up was on the original iPods.

And to say that Apple hasn't passed on the reduced cost of manufacturing to consumers is also not accurate. $399 originally got you a 5GB drive. Now, it gets you a 20GB drive, and $299 gets you a 10GB drive. So, Apple has, in fact, cut prices substantially over the life of the iPod, at least in MB per dollar (12.5 in the original 5GB iPods to 50.1MB per dollar in the current 20GB model).

Now, Cornice is ONLY selling to manufacturers in huge quantities. The $70 price, then, is cost to manufacturers.

arn
Jan 5, 2004, 05:21 PM
Originally posted by pbreit
I expect they will use Hitachi's 1 inch, 2 and 4 gig drives which have been on the market awhile, are proven and probably cheaper than Cornice's.


Hitachi's are NOT cheaper.

$70 for 2GB hasn't been done before.

arn

Photorun
Jan 5, 2004, 05:45 PM
$70 + whatever R&D plus profit mark up... seems unlikely it's be a $99 drive but more along the lines of $149 for the 2GB iPod... eh?

And please, NO STRIPES!

iSegway
Jan 5, 2004, 07:00 PM
Just as a guess i would say the starting price for the 2 GB can't be much more than 99 dollars. Why would you possibly want to pay much more than that for a 2 or 4 GB model when you can go up to the 10 for not much more money.

I think the 2 GB models will start at 99 dollars.

This makes a pretty simple Ad. campaign --

99 dollars for the player.

99 cents for each song.

Pirate_Will
Jan 5, 2004, 08:07 PM
Does anyone else think its a bit odd that video is soecified so well in the cornice marketing brochure?

Capacity
Transfer Rate

4.5Mbytes/sec typical average

-6 full-length movies or 9 hours video playback on 3.5-inch screen
(256x112)
-9 full-length movies or 13.5 hours of video playback on 1.5-inch
screen (160x64)
-3.5 hours of video recording with VHS-quality for TV monitor
playback
-2,500 pictures from a 3 mega-pixel camera
-28,000 pictures to display on a 3.5-inch screen
Greater than:

-96X the requirement for high-quality video playback on a
3.5-inch screen at 375Kbits/sec
-24X the requirement for VHS-quality video recording at
1.5Mbits/sec
Tremendous Power for Audio/Video Consumer Electronics (CE)

I mean they even specify screen sizes. Maybe there will be more than one new ipod model?

DGFan
Jan 5, 2004, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by thatguy_youknow
It has been this way forever and ever. The computer company's advertise the amount of bytes to make the drive seem larger then it really is. Why adverstise that something has a capacity of 1.862 Gigabytes when you can use a loophole and a disclaimer to advertise 2 Gigabytes.


I thought 2 Gigabytes was correct....as was 1.86 Gibibytes.

It's not Apple's fault regular consumers don't know this (and computers display it improperly.....ok, I guess this last bit IS their fault...)

DGFan
Jan 5, 2004, 09:48 PM
Originally posted by iSegway
Just as a guess i would say the starting price for the 2 GB can't be much more than 99 dollars. Why would you possibly want to pay much more than that for a 2 or 4 GB model when you can go up to the 10 for not much more money.

I think the 2 GB models will start at 99 dollars.


If they come out with a 2GB model that is more portable than the current iPod then $149 would be a reasonable price point.

If you follow the rest of their price line it makes sense too. Using your logic no one would by anything except 40GB iPods....but they do buy the smaller ones.

elgruga
Jan 5, 2004, 10:32 PM
Toshiba is my guess, too.

If this Cornice co. can do this 2 gig then Toshiba has it also.

Take a case, say: $10.
Batteries: AA's FOR CERTAIN! n/c
2 gig drive: $60
screen: $10
Chipset: $15
Connectors, packaging, earphones, cables, etc: $10

Total: $105 approx.

Apple price: $125 - gross profit of $20

Retail price: $150-175

You've got your mini iPod at the price you like. (Batteries not included)

jhgao6612
Jan 5, 2004, 10:33 PM
The Cornice drive is called a storage element because it's so simple, and also because they dont' want it confused with a hard drive.

The SE actually has a platter made of glass coated with a magnetic material, and it has a nonstandard IDE interface, so technically it's not a hard drive; it's all marketing "speek".

As for the video specifications, I'm guessing that since Samsung made the ITCAM with the SE in it, they're hoping that more manufacturers will base camcorders on it.

As for that $100 mark, I'm crossing my fingers. :D

Peyote
Jan 5, 2004, 11:06 PM
please let there be plaid mini iPods tomorrow!

Jagga
Jan 5, 2004, 11:11 PM
Eureka!

pkradd has got it. First off I agree that this basic drive element isn't going into the iPod minis.

Not just the WMA qoute from their site but also because of the mentioning of compatible cpus of note is Toshiba, Intel, and Motorola ALL of which are in the PDA business BIG TYME with the first two on PocketPC's and the later with Palm (well Intel too on the T3 and TC).

THis has been hyped for 2 months over at brighthand.

Toshiba it is 2 gigs for the size of a pezo! that way nobody starves or getz a stick up the coolo, oops jk.

Anyway at just 65MB/sec may not be that good for serious music listening, cueing, instant response from one track to another at different revolution speeds at different sectors across the platter.

iSegway
Jan 6, 2004, 12:39 AM
If they come out with a 2GB model that is more portable than the current iPod then $149 would be a reasonable price point.

If you follow the rest of their price line it makes sense too. Using your logic no one would by anything except 40GB iPods....but they do buy the smaller ones.

I believe that if this "mini" Ipod is for real it is intended to be the "Volkswagon beetle"of Mp3 players. If you price it too close to the 10 gigabyte model it defeats the purpose.

Of course, this is just how I see it though.

gerardrj
Jan 6, 2004, 12:46 AM
People seem to be missing several points:

1. This is not a new product, but an upgrade of an existing product. Apparently (if you go to the company's web site) they've had at least one older generation of this device. The announcement is about them now offering 500MB of additional storage space over the previous generation. This announcenemt is not about a new product that would revolutionalize a mini-iPod in form factor or in capacity.

2. Thier claims to the contrary, this "storage element" is simply a miniature hard disk. Sure it doesn't have caching and advanced predictive reads and such, but then neither did the MFM and RLL drives in the 80s and they were still hard drives. A hard disk/drive is an enclosed rigid spinning disk accessed with movable read/write heads.

3. This thing is SLOW. Sure it's small and low power, but it only has a 4.5MB/s average transfer rate. You're talking about a miniumum of 8 minutes to fill the thing with music. With such a small capacity, its very concievable that the users would completely swap out the music on the thing on a regular basis, unlike the iPods where you can just keep everything on it all the time (well, most people can). Compare that with the 22MB/s of the original 5GB iPod's drive that I can fill in about 4 minutes. The drives in the newer(20 & 40GB) iPods are even faster.

4. Back to the power thing. The 2GB version is stated to draw 75mW, that's ~262mA at 3.3V. That's about half that 500mA power draw of the 5GB drive in my iPod, but then it's also less than half the capacity. And, really, the drive is a rather small part of the power draw in an iPod, the drive only spins up every 20-30 minutes. The CPU and amplifiers are the major power hogs.

5. This drive does not use a standard interface, it requires a special controller. Given Apple's drive for open standards in their products, I don't see this thing getting in to an iPod. Yea, the iPod is a sealed consumer device, but I think Steve would stick to his pricipals on this one.

pkradd
Jan 6, 2004, 01:40 AM
Latest speculation from WSJ is that there will be a $199 iPod. Probably a return of the 5 gig in current form factor. All posters at Macworld are still promoting the current iPod. There are some banners cover in black (as usual) and others covered in white. Something other then a MiniPod is coming.