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Moneyman1029
Aug 4, 2008, 04:48 PM
Is it possible to put the great iphone SDK on a Windows Computer (PC)



TEG
Aug 4, 2008, 04:50 PM
No. The SDK only runs in XCode on an Intel Mac.

TEG

Moneyman1029
Aug 4, 2008, 04:51 PM
that stinks

DipDog3
Aug 4, 2008, 06:38 PM
Is it possible to put the great iphone SDK on a Windows Computer (PC)

The iPhone SDK requires Mac OS X. Windows will not work!
Better invest in a Mac!

txmike
Aug 4, 2008, 07:43 PM
Microsoft won't do it for us...

Why should we do it for them?

TEG
Aug 4, 2008, 08:02 PM
Microsoft won't do it for us...

Why should we do it for them?

Exactly, nor can we develop for .NET (C#/J#). If we could, I'd dump my PC at work.

TEG

kainjow
Aug 4, 2008, 08:29 PM
Buy a Mac mini :)

ethana
Aug 4, 2008, 08:32 PM
Moneyman1029 -

Is there Visual Studio for Mac? Nope.

Is there Xcode for Windows? Nope.

Sorry, gotta buy a Mac.

newb16
Aug 6, 2008, 03:18 AM
Is it possible to put the great iphone SDK on a Windows Computer (PC)

If it is possible to run leopard under vmware than maybe.

SwampThingTom
Aug 6, 2008, 10:29 AM
Buy a Mac mini :)

That's what I did. Great deal!

ayasin
Aug 6, 2008, 10:32 AM
If it is possible to run leopard under vmware than maybe.

It's not.

robbieduncan
Aug 6, 2008, 10:39 AM
If it is possible to run leopard under vmware than maybe.

It's not.

You can run Leopard Server (legally) in VMWare or Parallels. But only on a Mac. The EULA prevents running it on any non-Apple made hardware.

DipDog3
Aug 6, 2008, 01:02 PM
You can run Leopard Server (legally) in VMWare or Parallels. But only on a Mac. The EULA prevents running it on any non-Apple made hardware.

I’ve run leopard under Vmware as a “test” on a top of the line computer and it is WAY TOO SLOW to be useful.

Might as well buy a Mac.

Tipod
Aug 6, 2008, 05:58 PM
One way you can run iphone SDK on a PC is Run Mac OS X on it. You can do it easily by using PearPC which is an emulator that can run Mac OS X on it. Just go to this video and he it will show you a complete walkthrough.
Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XD2F_S-zsuw&feature=related

Cromulent
Aug 6, 2008, 06:22 PM
One way you can run iphone SDK on a PC is Run Mac OS X on it. You can do it easily by using PearPC which is an emulator that can run Mac OS X on it. Just go to this video and he it will show you a complete walkthrough.
Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XD2F_S-zsuw&feature=related

Not exactly a great or legal solution though. If you are serious about being a developer for the iPhone stump up the cash and get a second hand Mac Mini or something.

ThaBunny
Aug 6, 2008, 07:00 PM
I have a mac, but I'd still much rather develop on a PC with visual studio than be forced to use XCode. Nothing in XCode makes sense. I spent 10 minutes just trying to close a window the other day (apparently "close window" isn't on the window menu, it's on the file menu, and it doesn't just close the window, it closes the whole damn project).

The debugger is clunky and essential stuff like the watch window isn't integrated, plus everything requires a mouse, so you're constantly switching between mouse and keyboard. Even after adding shortcuts for stuff like toggling breakpoints, it still insists on inserting them on the cursor line instead of the program counter (like every other debugger which has ever existed), so I end up peppering my code with unnecessary breakpoints.

I did a search/replace in project the other day and it replaced the keyword in all the API headers which my project included. These were definitely not in my project.

I can't imagine anyone would use a toy IDE like XCode unless 1) they'd never used anything else, so didn't know better, or 2) they were forced to. In my case it's most definitely 2).

Oh and this may be a contentious point, but I can't live without an insert and delete key when I'm writing code. And the crazy mac mouse acceleration curve just adds insult to injury.

/rant :(

SnowLeopard2008
Aug 6, 2008, 07:02 PM
well no one is dumb enough to do serious programming on a window machine. unstability is like a global standard. while mac is on a unix core, stable and awesome. plus Xcode only runs on macs, so you're outta luck.

ThaBunny
Aug 6, 2008, 07:08 PM
well no one is dumb enough to do serious programming on a window machine.

Yes, I'm sure no one does that. ;)

alphaod
Aug 6, 2008, 07:13 PM
well no one is dumb enough to do serious programming on a window machine. unstability is like a global standard. while mac is on a unix core, stable and awesome. plus Xcode only runs on macs, so you're outta luck.

Have you ever programmed on a Windows machine?

Cromulent
Aug 6, 2008, 07:22 PM
I can't imagine anyone would use a toy IDE like XCode unless 1) they'd never used anything else, so didn't know better, or 2) they were forced to. In my case it's most definitely 2).

Oh and this may be a contentious point, but I can't live without an insert and delete key when I'm writing code. And the crazy mac mouse acceleration curve just adds insult to injury.

/rant :(

Hah, Visual Studio is much worse. Try building any open source projects on a Windows machine and be prepared for the joy of converting the build system to something that Visual Studio likes.

It looks good, has good intellisense but for any kind of programming that requires standards compliance look elsewhere. The Microsoft C/C++ compiler still has absolutely no support for C99 which I find ridiculous.

ayasin
Aug 6, 2008, 08:48 PM
I have a mac, but I'd still much rather develop on a PC with visual studio than be forced to use XCode. Nothing in XCode makes sense. I spent 10 minutes just trying to close a window the other day (apparently "close window" isn't on the window menu, it's on the file menu, and it doesn't just close the window, it closes the whole damn project).

The debugger is clunky and essential stuff like the watch window isn't integrated, plus everything requires a mouse, so you're constantly switching between mouse and keyboard. Even after adding shortcuts for stuff like toggling breakpoints, it still insists on inserting them on the cursor line instead of the program counter (like every other debugger which has ever existed), so I end up peppering my code with unnecessary breakpoints.

I did a search/replace in project the other day and it replaced the keyword in all the API headers which my project included. These were definitely not in my project.

I can't imagine anyone would use a toy IDE like XCode unless 1) they'd never used anything else, so didn't know better, or 2) they were forced to. In my case it's most definitely 2).

Oh and this may be a contentious point, but I can't live without an insert and delete key when I'm writing code. And the crazy mac mouse acceleration curve just adds insult to injury.

/rant :(

Your post fails on so many levels I don't know where to begin. Let me start by stating that I've been programming for over 20 years and seen many IDEs come and go. Many of those years have been spent developing windows software in professional environments.

Visual studio is extremely nice IF you're willing to shell out about $1000 or more for team foundation to get the stuff you get in XCode FOR FREE. But that aside once you learn the ins and outs of XCode it's an extremely nice and competent IDE. It DOES sit on top of the GNU toolchain so it inherits some of it's weaknesses (although I understand that Apple is looking to shift away from GCC to something better).

There is no comparison between how good interface builder is to anything in visual studio no matter how much money you spend. Interface builder is incredible once you understand it. Instruments? Find that in visual studio without buying an add on. How about dtrace? Is the Mac environment perfect? Heck no, but it's far from the clusterf*ck you make it out to be.

The debugger does take some getting used to, but the watch window IS there, and there are very powerful things you can do with the debugger that you have to use windbg to do in windows.

It's clear from your post that you've never done mobile development on windows mobile, palm or really any embedded platform. XCode so blows away tools for those platforms that it's not even a comparison. Put windows mobile development next to XCode for iPhone and you'll see that it's like comparing a Supercharged 4x4 to a donkey cart with the WM dev tools being the donkey cart (in case you missed that :p).

Your rant seems to be "I don't want to learn something new". Sorry to be harsh but I suggest you find a different occupation.

ayasin
Aug 6, 2008, 08:51 PM
You can run Leopard Server (legally) in VMWare or Parallels. But only on a Mac. The EULA prevents running it on any non-Apple made hardware.

That's true, but he was specifically talking about using it without a mac hence my no. Your point however is well taken, technically my answer is incorrect without including the "not on a non-mac machine" part.

itouch2007
Aug 6, 2008, 10:42 PM
I can't imagine anyone would use a toy IDE like XCode unless 1) they'd never used anything else, so didn't know better, or 2) they were forced to. In my case it's most definitely 2).
/rant :(

funny, its exactly what I thought after playing with XCode for few days - feels like a toy and not a serious IDE.

I'm developing with Delphi for >12 years now and few years with Visual Studio - I would prefer those IDE's vs XCode any day, XCode feels so clunky and old :(

Maybe its also to do with the fact that I don't know Objective C much, but C#/Visual Studio feels like heaven compared to XCode/Objective C duo :D

ThaBunny
Aug 7, 2008, 06:35 AM
Your post fails on so many levels I don't know where to begin. Let me start by stating that I've been programming for over 20 years and seen many IDEs come and go. Many of those years have been spent developing windows software in professional environments.

Visual studio is extremely nice IF you're willing to shell out about $1000 or more for team foundation to get the stuff you get in XCode FOR FREE. But that aside once you learn the ins and outs of XCode it's an extremely nice and competent IDE. It DOES sit on top of the GNU toolchain so it inherits some of it's weaknesses (although I understand that Apple is looking to shift away from GCC to something better).

There is no comparison between how good interface builder is to anything in visual studio no matter how much money you spend. Interface builder is incredible once you understand it. Instruments? Find that in visual studio without buying an add on. How about dtrace? Is the Mac environment perfect? Heck no, but it's far from the clusterf*ck you make it out to be.

The debugger does take some getting used to, but the watch window IS there, and there are very powerful things you can do with the debugger that you have to use windbg to do in windows.

It's clear from your post that you've never done mobile development on windows mobile, palm or really any embedded platform. XCode so blows away tools for those platforms that it's not even a comparison. Put windows mobile development next to XCode for iPhone and you'll see that it's like comparing a Supercharged 4x4 to a donkey cart with the WM dev tools being the donkey cart (in case you missed that :p).

Your rant seems to be "I don't want to learn something new". Sorry to be harsh but I suggest you find a different occupation.

I should make it clear that I do cross-platform console game development as my day job. I'm used to using different debuggers, IDEs and compilers. I've used IDEs from Borland C 1.0 (DOS based), Code Warrior and even AMOS basic back to the Amiga, and none of them is as clunky and badly designed as Xcode (OK, except possibly Amos, but that was 15 years ago!).

I'm used to learning new tools, it's a big part of my job. It always takes a little while, but once you learn how features are implemented, it's not a problem. In the case of Xcode, I find that the features are not just different, they're either missing of just plain broken.

Maybe Xcode/iPhone dev is better than palm development. You're quite right, I have no idea. But being better than something else which sucks isn't much of an achievement.

Cromulent
Aug 7, 2008, 07:14 AM
I should make it clear that I do cross-platform console game development as my day job. I'm used to using different debuggers, IDEs and compilers. I've used IDEs from Borland C 1.0 (DOS based), Code Warrior and even AMOS basic back to the Amiga, and none of them is as clunky and badly designed as Xcode (OK, except possibly Amos, but that was 15 years ago!).

I'm used to learning new tools, it's a big part of my job. It always takes a little while, but once you learn how features are implemented, it's not a problem. In the case of Xcode, I find that the features are not just different, they're either missing of just plain broken.

Maybe Xcode/iPhone dev is better than palm development. You're quite right, I have no idea. But being better than something else which sucks isn't much of an achievement.

What is it that you are having problems with? Maybe we can help.

DipDog3
Aug 7, 2008, 09:34 AM
One way you can run iphone SDK on a PC is Run Mac OS X on it. You can do it easily by using PearPC which is an emulator that can run Mac OS X on it. Just go to this video and he it will show you a complete walkthrough.
Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XD2F_S-zsuw&feature=related

Uh PearPC was for when Mac was PowerPC only. It doesn't apply anymore!

TonyHoyle
Aug 8, 2008, 04:05 AM
I should make it clear that I do cross-platform console game development as my day job. I'm used to using different debuggers, IDEs and compilers. I've used IDEs from Borland C 1.0 (DOS based), Code Warrior and even AMOS basic back to the Amiga, and none of them is as clunky and badly designed as Xcode (OK, except possibly Amos, but that was 15 years ago!).


As far as Unix dev systems go xcode isn't that bad. Compared to Visual Studio and WSAD it's pretty poor... It's hampered by the debugger being based on gdb (which means no inline debugging, no edit/continue, etc.) and the lack of integration between IB and the editor is completely frustrating.

OTOH compared to trying to get an HPUX or AS400 machine to do what you want to do.. it's miles better.. at least the API is somewhat consistent (poorly documented, but meh. so is nearly everything in this world.. if everything was documented I'd be out of a job because anyone could do it..).

As far as the original question goes, the cost of a mac mini compared to the cost of development of the average application is so tiny nobody is going to care about it. It's less than the cost of a compiler license on most systems (hell, a Mac Pro is less than the cost of some compiler licenses...).

kcbtke252
Jan 9, 2009, 09:07 AM
.Net MONO, open source .Net. The IDE's are a little clumsy but you can develop for MAC and Lynx and everyone can be happy.

ethana
Jan 20, 2009, 02:23 AM
I've been a developer for both Windows and Mac. I LOVE Macs and have four of them in my house, but I must say that Visual Studio is hands down better and easier to program with than Xcode.

Xcode does has some unique features and uses a different way of programming (MVC), but Visual Studio has FAR more rapid application development features than Xcode does, especially with the UI. Just being able to drag over a button, double-click it, and then code what it does is super simple. Not being able to do that with Xcode/IB adds so many extra steps for a simple task. I know many programmers don't like code generation, but for the easy things it sure is a nice-to-have.

To be completely honest, when I first started with Xcode I was surprised it was an Apple product. Apple prides themselves on being intuitive and easy to use, yet when it comes to their development tools it's nearly the opposite.

Ethan

mpatric
Jan 20, 2009, 08:24 AM
This thread is pointless. Some people love Visual Studio, some don't (I don't like it, and absolutely hate it without Resharper).

I find XCode completely usable and good enough for the job at hand. Best of all, I don't hate it.

There will be many people out there with the opposite view. That's your prerogative. Good for you.

aliengoatee
Dec 13, 2009, 03:40 PM
Android has a development kit for Windows. I suggest dumping the iPhone and develop Android applications.

amorya
Dec 13, 2009, 09:11 PM
Android has a development kit for Windows. I suggest dumping the iPhone and develop Android applications.

Sure, give up a market with millions of customers who actively buy apps for one with many times fewer users who tend to stick to free apps. Don't let the door hit you in the ass!

admanimal
Dec 13, 2009, 09:37 PM
Android has a development kit for Windows. I suggest dumping the iPhone and develop Android applications.

I tried the Android SDK (on a Mac) and it is excruciating to use compared to XCode and the iPhone SDK. The simulator was so slow and unreliable that I just gave up.

shorty56
Mar 8, 2010, 04:40 PM
Sure, give up a market with millions of customers who actively buy apps for one with many times fewer users who tend to stick to free apps. Don't let the door hit you in the ass!

Love how that tide is changing don't you?

Iphone will bow to droid if Apple continues to want to rape developers with their overpriced hardware.

If Apple's decisions were based on battling windows only then they would allow Linux and other *nix users to develop. However, this is NOT their desire. They want everyone to overpay for the same hardware and stolen open-source technology to develop for the Iphone. I have several Iphones in my family but love my new Droid FAR more. And love developing for it more then Iphone too.

Now I can quite having to log onto my doorstop to develop and can stick with Linux.

I know the Mac homers in here will disagree, but you really ought to try a Droid. Far better then the Iphone. And with the free, open development you will only see more and more development for them.

And love the comment (Only free apps on the Droid). Of course there free. welcome to the open-source community. The developers didn't have to over-pay Apple for a system to develop on. They can use any system they want. So, they don't have to try to recoup system costs.

shorty56
Mar 8, 2010, 04:42 PM
I tried the Android SDK (on a Mac) and it is excruciating to use compared to XCode and the iPhone SDK. The simulator was so slow and unreliable that I just gave up.

Droid SDK works great on Windows, Linux and any other non-Apple *nix system.

dejo
Mar 8, 2010, 04:43 PM
And love the comment (Only free apps on the Droid). Of course there free. welcome to the open-source community. The developers didn't have to over-pay Apple for a system to develop on. They can use any system they want. So, they don't have to try to recoup system costs.
Um, what about the cost of development? You think developers should not be allowed to be rewarded for their time and talent, if they so choose?

admanimal
Mar 8, 2010, 06:05 PM
And love the comment (Only free apps on the Droid). Of course there free. welcome to the open-source community. The developers didn't have to over-pay Apple for a system to develop on. They can use any system they want. So, they don't have to try to recoup system costs.

Open source software is a nice idea and all, but frankly it tends to pale in comparison to well-made commercial software (with a few major exceptions like Firefox) when it comes to usability and polish.

A developer can buy into iPhone development for well under $1000. If that's really too much for them, then perhaps they aren't serious about their business. And as dejo pointed out, even if Apple was giving away free Macs, etc. to developers I guarantee there would be nowhere near as many apps as there are today if not for the potential for serious profit.

shorty56
Mar 8, 2010, 06:15 PM
Um, what about the cost of development? You think developers should not be allowed to be rewarded for their time and talent, if they so choose?

Absolutely they should if they choose. And there are certainly pay aps on Droid. But, since any developer can just play around with Droid aps in their free time you get a lot more free aps. Which I don't think will hurt Droid.

Open source software is a nice idea and all, but frankly it tends to pale in comparison to well-made commercial software (with a few major exceptions like Firefox) when it comes to usability and polish.

A developer can buy into iPhone development for well under $1000. If that's really too much for them, then perhaps they aren't serious about their business. And as dejo pointed out, even if Apple was giving away free Macs, etc. to developers I guarantee there would be nowhere near as many apps as there are today if not for the potential for serious profit.

Well, I believe programs like Perl, MySQL, PHP are quite nice open source languages/programs. And MANY linux flavors (like Kubuntu) are as nice as Leopard in many regards. Add to that OpenFire, OpenOffice, DotProject, etc. etc. and I think there are FAR better open source apps then just Firefox.

firewood
Mar 8, 2010, 09:24 PM
They want everyone to overpay for the same hardware and stolen open-source technology to develop for the Iphone.

If you, or someone you know, has a copyright on some open source software you wrote, and you have good evidence that Apple is violating the terms you granted them in your open source license, there are probably lawyers on this site who would be interested in your case. On the other hand, Apple has reportedly won cases against companies that stole their software (including a big one whose name starts with the letter "M").

As for "overpaying", it's very good business to get people to pay that much while maintaining an above average customer satisfaction rating. Maybe they should raise their prices and developer fees until that price lowers their satisfaction ratings to be the same as Android-based products.

admanimal
Mar 8, 2010, 10:00 PM
Well, I believe programs like Perl, MySQL, PHP are quite nice open source languages/programs. And MANY linux flavors (like Kubuntu) are as nice as Leopard in many regards. Add to that OpenFire, OpenOffice, DotProject, etc. etc. and I think there are FAR better open source apps then just Firefox.

Don't get me wrong, there are tons of awesome open source tools like the ones you mentioned, but when it comes to GUI-based software that is really polished the right way for use by the general population, OSS tends to not stand up to its commercial competition.

nickdunhill
Mar 31, 2010, 05:34 AM
I'm using Airplay SDK on Mac to develop for iPhone, Android and other platforms:
http://www.airplaysdk.com

Some friends are using Airplay SDK on PC... it allows you to develop, test, deploy and sign iPhone apps (all the way to App Store submission) purely in a PC environment.

leru
Mar 31, 2010, 06:05 AM
I have read through this forum, and I see that most of you have many years experience. (some really passionate about their platforms, tools, etc. :)

I have only done web based applications for mobiles, using MVS 2005 and 2008.

Now, I need to get going with iPhone apps. Can you please give advice on what is the best setup to invest in (keep in mind that I do not know Mac's at all).

And, do you think that there is a posibility that there will be a windows based development platform for iPhone in the relative near future? I do not want to make this investment, just to find out that there were some Windows based solutions in the pipeline.

Thanks for your feedback.

robbieduncan
Mar 31, 2010, 06:46 AM
Now, I need to get going with iPhone apps. Can you please give advice on what is the best setup to invest in (keep in mind that I do not know Mac's at all).

And, do you think that there is a posibility that there will be a windows based development platform for iPhone in the relative near future? I do not want to make this investment, just to find out that there were some Windows based solutions in the pipeline.

A second-hand Intel based Mac Mini off eBay or similar. Apple will, in my opinion, never release a development environment for Windows. Others have suggested potential alternative third-party Windows environments above.

leru
Mar 31, 2010, 01:02 PM
A second-hand Intel based Mac Mini off eBay or similar. Apple will, in my opinion, never release a development environment for Windows. Others have suggested potential alternative third-party Windows environments above.

I have recently invested in a iPhone myself, and I absolutely love it (I have always used SonyEricsson before). What about Andriod?

Would it not be too limited to short-sighted to gear up and just develop for iPhone in the longer run. Or, is it possible to write applications for both?

robbieduncan
Mar 31, 2010, 01:44 PM
I have recently invested in a iPhone myself, and I absolutely love it (I have always used SonyEricsson before). What about Andriod?

Would it not be too limited to short-sighted to gear up and just develop for iPhone in the longer run. Or, is it possible to write applications for both?

You can write applications for both but they'll be two different applications: you cannot share code as they don't even use the same programming language...

firewood
Mar 31, 2010, 03:39 PM
You can write applications for both but they'll be two different applications: you cannot share code as they don't even use the same programming language...

They both share the plain ANSI C programming language (it's a legal subset of Objective C, and accessible from the NDK in Android). Anything in the app in plain C can be shared (example: the Doom/Quake ports to both the iPhone SDK and the Android NDK).

You can't share the UI portions of the code. But if you program using the MVC paradigm, just write the Model in C, then only the Views and portions of the Controllers need to be ported between platforms.

nickdunhill
Apr 6, 2010, 03:19 AM
You can write applications for both but they'll be two different applications: you cannot share code as they don't even use the same programming language...

I posted earlier about Airplay SDK:
http://www.airplaysdk.com

I can't believe more people aren't using this... the more I get to grips with it, the more amazing it seems.

You can develop, test, deploy and sign iPhone apps (all the way to App Store submission) purely in a PC environment (it's also available for Mac).

Best of all is that you can press a button and deploy your app as a native Android app (silently uses the Android NDK behind the scenes) without even recompiling your code!

It doesn't allow access to the native platform UI (so no UIKit on iPhone, and no native Android UI) but it does provide its own reskinnable UI framework if you really need that kind of thing.

robbieduncan
Apr 6, 2010, 04:13 AM
It doesn't allow access to the native platform UI (so no UIKit on iPhone, and no native Android UI) but it does provide its own reskinnable UI framework if you really need that kind of thing.

And that's the core problem: apps created this way will feel odd on all platforms. Users notice this sort of thing.

IspepAloc
Apr 6, 2010, 10:56 PM
I'd love to be able to use an iPad to develop. Any apps out there for that now?

firewood
Apr 7, 2010, 12:57 AM
I'd love to be able to use an iPad to develop. Any apps out there for that now?

VNC (or RDP) into a Mac from the iPad. Looks like there are several popular Remote Desktop and VNC apps for the iPad.