“MOST EXCITING digital photography news this year”

[tony-in-japan]

Phil Askey, Editor of the popular photography website Dpreview.com, wrote the following:

“This is without doubt the most exciting digital photography announcement this year.”

With Canon and Nikon (and Sony) battling it out on the professional FF front with their heavy and large bodies/lenses, there will soon be a great option for those more interested in compact, portable and light photography while upholding DSLR image quality.

There are some of us who are tired of the compact P&S megapixel game which is increasingly offering consumers more MPs in the same small sensor size -- meaning decreasing image quality on photos. What many consumers want is good IQ in a compact form. The Sigma DP1 was close. The E-420 with pancake was close too. The upcoming Lumix LX3 looks interesting, but still has a similar sensor size to compacts.

The welcome news of a new, upcoming system that gets rid of the mirror-reflex design of traditional DSLRs and instead will use an Electronic Viewfinder with Interchangable Lenses capability will be released by a joint-venture between Olympus (great optical company) and Panasonic (electronics giant) called micro-Four-Thirds.

This is great news for compact and prosumer lovers. A camera with a sensor area four times more than on a P&S camera, that will be compact and light with the DSLR’s capability to use interchangeable high-quality zoom or prime lenses is what the excitement is all about (and Olympus makes some of the best lenses in the industry). Check out the news/interest on the forums on Dpreview.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0808/08080501microfourthirds.asp

I am definitely excited. If I can get image quality anywhere near I can get on my current E-420 with Pancake, then I will be a happy man. For all those doubting the IQ you can get from Olympus 4/3rds sensors, please check out my Flickr Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/26154011@N07/

[onomatopoeia]

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=538755

[rolex54]

looks very interesting

[tony-in-japan]

Okay, here is a mock-up of a possible micro-zoom lens with its bigger brother counterpart. What I have read is that it looks like it has an ‘internal focusing’ mechanism.

Not bad for a compact zoom. Can’t wait to see what the size of pancake lenses and prime lenses would be like though!

http://www.four-thirds.org/en/microft/

[RainForRent]

Ha. Just finished reading this on digg this morning. Looks pretty neat, I hope it brings more into the digital rangefinder field– the selection is pretty lacking and pretty expensive right now.

[Westside guy]

Thom Hogan (http://bythom.com/) has a bit of a countervailing opinion on this - read down below "EVIL on the Horizon". I think he has some good observations on this.

I'm really curious to see if the APS-sensor Coolpix he mentions comes out soon...

[tony-in-japan]

This a great news for everyone because if Olympus/Panasonic didn’t introduce this new system, God know how many more years consumers would be forced to play that ridiculous lets just squeeze ‘more megapixel on same sensor’ in this year’s compact game. Canon, Sony or Nikon would not have made this move -- they simply sell too many of their compacts to do so.

But I got out while I could.

If people appreciate and support these new kinds of products, then we can see a new wave of cameras with great IQ replacing those crummy compacts.

In the end, the consumer will decide this, but if this fails, then we can surely expect to be seeing 25+megapixel compacts... (on the same teeny-weeny sensor).

[tony-in-japan]

Thom Hogan (http://bythom.com/) has a bit of a countervailing opinion on this - read down below "EVIL on the Horizon". I think he has some good observations on this.

I'm really curious to see if the APS-sensor Coolpix he mentions comes out soon...

Thanks for the link.

There is a heated discussion on Mr. Hogan’s comments on here:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=28861435

While I agree with some of his points, the reality is that micro4/3rds will soon be something concrete, but micro-APS cameras? Nobody knows if this is even in Canon/Nikon’s pipeline (and if so, would they dedicate good R&D to its evolution?). Isn’t their battle on the FF front their priority?

I think Oly/Pana have the advantage also in that:

1. Olympus already has experience making smaller/lighter high-quality lenses. I think this will be their ace. The popularity of their recent Pancake and fantastic zooms (e.g. Zuiko 12-60mm) reveals what kind of lenses we can expect in the future.

2. Panasonic is an electronic giant with expertise with LCD (Viera technology) and video (which will no doubt become part of the tech of m4/3rds cameras.) Imagine, recording video with DSLR standard lenses!? Very exciting.

[Westside guy]

1. Olympus already has experience making smaller/lighter high-quality lenses. I think this will be their ace. The popularity of their recent Pancake and fantastic zooms (e.g. Zuiko 12-60mm) reveals what kind of lenses we can expect in the future.

I don't disagree with you on this; but I'm not sure the average point-and-shoot buyer will think about it the same way you (or I) do. A 12-60 zoom, no matter how good, may not hold someone's attention if the next camera over has a 10-300 zoom - even if it's on a tiny sensor, and most of that range is electronic "zoom". :rolleyes:

2. Panasonic is an electronic giant with expertise with LCD (Viera technology) and video (which will no doubt become part of the tech of m4/3rds cameras.) Imagine, recording video with DSLR standard lenses!? Very exciting.

FWIW a rumor about the upcoming Nikon D90 says it'll shoot video. Of course that's not a small camera...

[Chip NoVaMac]

In the end I see "micro" versions of even Nikon, Canon, Pentax, and Sony...

The form factor does usher in a new era of smaller cameras and lenses...

[tony-in-japan]

FWIW a rumor about the upcoming Nikon D90 says it'll shoot video. Of course that's not a small camera...

Isn’t the D90 a DSLR (with Reflex)? I wonder if the mirror need to be up continuously to record video and how long you can actually record for? I am not too sure about Nikon integrating video into their products as they are primarily a ‘Camera’ company. Unless another company is creating that tech’ for them.

[tony-in-japan]

In the end I see "micro" versions of even Nikon, Canon, Pentax, and Sony...

I think it depends on whether consumers are interested in this kind of camera and the commercial success of this micro4/3rds system first. The wallets of consumers will dictate changing trends.

Otherwise, the status-quo of current compacts will continue. Canon, Nikon and Sony with their compacts will not want to interfere too much with the profits they currently gain.

[tony-in-japan]

I'm really curious to see if the APS-sensor Coolpix he mentions comes out soon...

Funny you should say that...

Nikon has just released news of their ‘high-end flag-ship compact’ which will be available in September. Does this reveal where Nikon are heading with their Coolpix series? (Hint: more megapixels on small sensor: 13.5 megapixel, 1/1.72 inch sensor (0.41 square cm). Yawn.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0808/08080702nikonp6000.asp

What do you think of this release?

[Westside guy]

... What do you think of this release?

Reading that announcement, I'm more bothered by the apparent tie-in to Windows-based software. What's with that?

But yeah, that does seem to run counter to the rumors Thom mentioned.

[tony-in-japan]

I'm more bothered by the apparent tie-in to Windows-based software. What's with that?

Not sure...

RAW-DRM?

[Chip NoVaMac]

I think it depends on whether consumers are interested in this kind of camera and the commercial success of this micro4/3rds system first. The wallets of consumers will dictate changing trends.

Otherwise, the status-quo of current compacts will continue. Canon, Nikon and Sony with their compacts will not want to interfere too much with the profits they currently gain.

We will have to see how see how this shakes out in the end

[TheReef]

This sounds pretty interesting. But does that mean no more ka-chick? :eek:
Not so sure about an electronic viewfinder either.

[Abstract]

Yeah, after I read about this a couple of days ago at DPR, I became really set on buying one of these after their release. I was actually thinking of buying a DP1, or possibly an E-420 after I graduate and earn money, but to be honest, neither are what I really want. The DP1 seems wonderful except for its slow focusing, while the E420 is too big to be a compact. I can keep it in a jacket pocket without issue (using the pancake lens), but what if it's summer?

I'm curious about their focusing though, and how fast it'll be. I don't think I'll mind the EVF if it has as many ppi as the LCD on my D300.

[compuwar]

Funny you should say that...

Nikon has just released news of their ‘high-end flag-ship compact’ which will be available in September. Does this reveal where Nikon are heading with their Coolpix series? (Hint: more megapixels on small sensor: 13.5 megapixel, 1/1.72 inch sensor (0.41 square cm). Yawn.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0808/08080702nikonp6000.asp

What do you think of this release?

Coolpixes are mostly underwhelming, but that would have been in design 6-8 months ago at the shortest. I think an APS-C P&S makes sense, as the stop of noise over 4/3rds and ~2.5 stops over current P&S sensors would rock low light indoor shots, though if they couldn't get a price premium, they'd have to take lower margins due to increased sensor cost. If the Japenses sales are impending P&S doom, the quickest "new" answer Nikon could do is to put an APS-C sensor in a P&S with a good zoom attached.

The bigger question is will this kill "normal" 4/3rds, or effectively split the coalition? Also, folks looking for small/light are most likely to stick with one lens- seems to me that they'd need some really interesting lens options to not drop down to 1:1 lens/body sales.

[tony-in-japan]

The bigger question is will this kill "normal" 4/3rds, or effectively split the coalition?

I don’t think so. Olympus will still continue to support and develop the semi-pro/pro lines of 4/3 system and lenses. The new m4/3rds is aimed at the P&S and prosumer market, and with Panasonic as a co-partner and their interest to integrate HD video into this new system as it evolves, I can see them funding alot of R&D into it.

If it was just an Olympus venture, I could see problems with them trying to maintain two systems, but with Panasonic onboard too, it will allow Olympus to also focus some of their energy on their existing 4/3rds system too. There are rumours of a tweener DSLR between the E-520 and E-3 in the pipeline. Should know more if this is a reality soon.

[Abstract]

The bigger question is will this kill "normal" 4/3rds, or effectively split the coalition? Also, folks looking for small/light are most likely to stick with one lens- seems to me that they'd need some really interesting lens options to not drop down to 1:1 lens/body sales.

If they handle the situation right, maybe people would buy a mix of micro 4/3rd lenses and 4/3rd lenses.....where the really "important" lenses would be normal 4/3rd lenses, as they can also fit well on their regular 4/3rds DSLR, such as the E-520 or E-3, which may be someone's normal use DSLR, as it may offer far better controls, better grip, etc.

If Olympus plays this wrong, 4/3rds is going to be dead, as it doesn't offer a sensor advantage or size advantage.

[compuwar]

I don’t think so. Olympus will still continue to support and develop the semi-pro/pro lines of 4/3 system and lenses. The new m4/3rds is aimed at the P&S and prosumer market, and with Panasonic as a co-partner and their interest to integrate HD video into this new system as it evolves, I can see them funding alot of R&D into it.

If it was just an Olympus venture, I could see problems with them trying to maintain two systems, but with Panasonic onboard too, it will allow Olympus to also focus some of their energy on their existing 4/3rds system too. There are rumours of a tweener DSLR between the E-520 and E-3 in the pipeline. Should know more if this is a reality soon.

I wasn't really thinking R&D or even production capacity- I was thinking market- I keep seeing Oly fans raving about small and light- if that's the largest part of their niche does regular 4/3rds become unsustainable? It's like Leica in the SLR space without the premium branding- Leica fans were generally rangefinder enthusiasts- the R series really didn't do well (hence Leica's move to 4/3rds.) What happens to long-flange 4/3rds if say 75% of new 4/3rds buyers are micro-4/3rds buyers? If N/C/S produce an APS-C P&S which has better low-light capabilities then do they win the market share for the folks who're purchasing an extra light-weight camera instead of a new-to-digital camera? If purchasers go with Micro-4/3rds and one lens, do they ever reach lens price points that are more profitable...

Oly's been doing relatively well, but they're still less than 5% of the market for dSLRs, does a new lens mount effectively split their share? If Panasonic is the focus of the mini-mount, do they effectively grow share at Oly's expense? That's the sort of thing I mean, and obviously only time will tell- but I also think that's the jist of Thom Hogan's argument about sustainability- in business the "first mover" advantage is only really an advantage if you can protect your portion of the market, otherwise you spend all the R&D, advertising and building the segment and all the copy-cats just do one incremental improvement and obsolete your product- and if this is really the segment their customers want, then everyone else will come to play if it's profitable- and they'll have the larger sensor advantages.

Also, I don't see many Oly owners with multiple bodies- and certainly not multiple new bodies like you see with C/N- so again, I wonder if normal 4/3rds can survive Micro-4/3rds.

[compuwar]

If they handle the situation right, maybe people would buy a mix of micro 4/3rd lenses and 4/3rd lenses.....where the really "important" lenses would be normal 4/3rd lenses, as they can also fit well on their regular 4/3rds DSLR, such as the E-520 or E-3, which may be someone's normal use DSLR, as it may offer far better controls, better grip, etc.


That assumes people purchasing two bodies because of portability rather than angle of view or sensor characteristics because of size- I think that's a stretch, but that's just my opinion. Also, we don't know what the flange extender is going to do to all the lenses vignetting-wise.


If Olympus plays this wrong, 4/3rds is going to be dead, as it doesn't offer a sensor advantage or size advantage.

This move must be due to marketing saying the 4/3rds size issue with the mirror is not playing well-- otherwise they'd have stuck to their mount- so we're at "what does this do to normal 4/3rds?" and "What happens when the competition releases P&S cameras with a bigger sensor?" IMO, 4/3rds Micro doesn't compete with APS-C or bridge cameras as much as it competes with 4/3rds normal. It may grow the second camera market, but since you can't go from Micro to normal, you're going to see limits on folks trading in other systems to go to 4/3rds normal- if it's the light camera, then long lenses with a different system are going to be no bi deal.

[tony-in-japan]

I think the key here is whether non-Olympus users are interested in the kind of cameras/lens the m4/3rds system produces, whether they will make that jump quick or simply wait for their own version from their existing brand of choice (assuming they do release an equivalent competing product). It all depends on timing, which makes me wonder if Canon, Nikon and Sony will be too preoccupied with the other FF end to be too concerned with this market audience? If they are, it could well be the key for the m4/3rds to build enough sales and market awareness to be successful.

In regards to maintaining their market share of existing Olympus DSLR users. I have the E-420 and I wonder would I have bought this if I knew about the m4/3rds? Probably not. Hence, I think the E-4x0 series will be discontinued unless it can offer something different from an m4/3rds body which I doubt. But I think Oly could keep their market share of DSLR users if they released a semi-pro weathersealed DSLR that is inbetween the E-520 and E-3 (an Ex0?). The cameras from the m4/3rds could be a portable back-up to their Olympus DSLR. Since I got the E-420, I have become interested in the higher-grade lenses, so I could see myself as owning a m4/3rds body with a few pancake/compact lenses along with a semi-pro weathersealed Oly body to go with higher-grade lenses (like the 12-60mm I own). If Oly does it right, I don’t see why one would need to trade the 4/3 system for the m4/3 system. I can see them co-existing with advantages to each system/body when needed.

[Consultant]

Not happening. Any serious SLR user would already have invested in "full size" lenses and equipment for Nikon and Canons.

Sensors in most digital cameras are already a small sensor, compred to 35mm film.

Nikon already have DX lenses that are designed for the small sensors.

It will end up like that small film format which failed. It's just a gimmick, some people will buy it, but professionals won't. By the way one benefit of a full size camera is that heavier camera = less likely to shake

[tony-in-japan]

Not happening. Any serious SLR user would already have invested in "full size" lenses and equipment for Nikon and Canons.

Sensors in most digital cameras are already a small sensor, compred to 35mm film.

Nikon already have DX lenses that are designed for the small sensors.

It will end up like that small film format which failed. It's just a gimmick, some people will buy it, but professionals won't. By the way one benefit of a full size camera is that heavier camera = less likely to shake

I am sorry, but have you actually been reading what the m4/3rds is all about and who it is aimed for?

The target audience is not professionals interested in FF sensors and heavy bodies. It is more designed for consumers stepping up from P&S and prosumer users who want compact, light but with high-quality IQ.

I can also envision professionals interested in a back-up compact interested in this 4/3rds system too. It doesn’t intend to replace traditional DSLRs, but can complement them.

[ChrisA]

So they are talking about a Leica M8 but sold at a much lower price point?

http://us.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/m8/

This new class of camera sounds almost exactly like an M8 but with a new lens mount and no optical viewfinders although nothing would preclude a rangefinder style viewfinder.

[ChrisA]

This would be the "perfect" underwater camera for diving. Under water is inherently low light and the larger sensor will help but it is not so easy to see through the viewfinder of an SLR when you have to look through both the housing window and a dive mask. Also being compact is very nice because the housing is smaller so it has less air inside which means less lead used to make it sink. A big-sensor, compact camera will be ideal for this use.

[Westside guy]

It'll be interesting to watch this play out. We all carry our own preconceptions into this, and assume there's a boatload of people out there that share our wants/needs. That may or may not be the case. :D

Me (and my preconceptions)? After thinking about it a little, I'm wondering if it'll make much of a splash in the end. The OP quoted the first line of the DP announcement, but not the second - and I'm starting to think that's the really important part of it: "it's fair to say that this "extension / addition" to the Four Thirds standard is finally able to deliver on the original promise of that format" (emphasis mine). Basically the point of the statement is that Olympus hasn't, up until now, delivered on what they claimed they were going to offer with 4/3.

Nikon and Canon sales have been booming - and it's not the higher end cameras that have driven this. Olympus has already got smaller, lighter cameras than Nikon and Canon; but they haven't been able to chip away at the Big Two's market share. People are already switching from point-and-shoots to dSLRs. P&S sales are not projecting well.

In the end, I'm not sure m4/3 is going to find much more than a niche market - the folks that already own (or are looking at) 4/3 dSLRs. But yeah, I don't have any better idea than anyone else - so we'll just have to play it out. :)

[hector]

Surely this sort of camera is for the people who are stuck between the D40 and the G9? Those who want great image quality but don't want to have to lug around a big camera, and aren't particularly fussed about changing lenses.

I know loads of people who would be potential buyers of a really compact camera like this...

[miloblithe]

So they are talking about a Leica M8 but sold at a much lower price point?

http://us.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/m8/

This new class of camera sounds almost exactly like an M8 but with a new lens mount and no optical viewfinders although nothing would preclude a rangefinder style viewfinder.

Exactly what I thought, and a sub-$1000 rangefinder sounds awesome. Or maybe even sub-$500! I mean, how much is the least expensive Olympus right now?

[Westside guy]

Surely this sort of camera is for the people who are stuck between the D40 and the G9? Those who want great image quality but don't want to have to lug around a big camera, and aren't particularly fussed about changing lenses.

I know loads of people who would be potential buyers of a really compact camera like this...

Right, but doesn't Olympus already have that market? The question (in my opinion) really is - how many of those "loads of people" will buy this new Olympus camera but wouldn't have bought (or don't already own) an existing Olympus camera?

[miloblithe]

Right, but doesn't Olympus already have that market? The question (in my opinion) really is - how many of those "loads of people" will buy this new Olympus camera but wouldn't have bought (or don't already own) an existing Olympus camera?

Not really, but I think it's a small market. Enthusiasts who understand that the 1/1.6" sensor in a point and shoot cannot compare to a 4/3 or APS-C sensor are going to be interested in this kind of camera for its portability, assuming it's small enough. The Olympus E-420 really is not much smaller than APS-C cameras.

The E-420 is 5.1 x 3.6 x 2.1 inches.
The 450D is 5.1 x 3.9 x 2.4 inches.

sure it's smaller and lighter, but not significantly so. It's the same class of camera.

The DP1 on the other hand is 4.3 x 2.4 x 1.2 inches. Completely different scale.

If micro 4/3 is close to the DP1 than the E-420, it's a real alternative to a point and shoot. The E-420 is just a very slightly smaller SLR, and the minimal size advantage isn't really worth the hit to IQ.

[bousozoku]

This is as close a balance between genius and madness as anyone has thought to try.

I suspect it will cut a wide path through the current SLR-like market, by offering image quality that those cannot deliver, while offering familiar Live View feel to those who just want a pocket-able camera.

Olympus have better things in R&D for the current Four-Thirds format (if they'll just get them out the door, please) and this will just dip further into the 93 % of the market that doesn't have or doesn't want an SLR as big and heavy as the E-420.

[compuwar]

This is as close a balance between genius and madness as anyone has thought to try.

I suspect it will cut a wide path through the current SLR-like market, by offering image quality that those cannot deliver, while offering familiar Live View feel to those who just want a pocket-able camera.


I suspect not.
It looks to me that marketing aimed it squarely at folks who bought the E420- I think they're going to eat their own segment as much as anything.

1. Most of the folks outside the E420 crowd don't want to have to choose which lens to buy, let alone shoot.
2. The APS-C and APS-H crowd have a stop's better IQ- that's shooting in half as much light at the same quality, so any "answer" from the P&S division of any of the other companies is going to do well just using a sensor from teh dSLR division- no big resource hog to churn one out if you're Sony, Nikon or Canon if the Oly looks like it'll get any momentum or just to ensure it doesn't.
3. A lot of that segment just wants a better cell phone camera, and most of it doesn't dump the currrent P&S for new tech, they wait for the current one to die unless they're trading up to a bridge or dSLR.



Olympus have better things in R&D for the current Four-Thirds format (if they'll just get them out the door, please) and this will just dip further into the 93 % of the market that doesn't have or doesn't want an SLR as big and heavy as the E-420.

But if the primary argument for 4/3rds is smaller/lighter, then why would someone going for it want a bigger/heavier camera? We've already seen the bigger/smaller lens issues with FX and DX and the Canon equivalents- how many people here say "I want to just buy DX lenses because they're smaller/lighter?"

If you buy into micro 4/3, you'll get micro 4/3 lenses- they won't be compatible with 4/3 systems- if you don't want an E420, then an APS-C P&S seems like a much better solution.

I think this only works if nobody with a bigger sensor decides to do the same thing- otherwise the low-light side-by-side comparisons aren't going to be good.

I also don't see how this really helps normal 4/3 lens sales to achieve good volumes, since anyone going m4/3 is more likely to buy m4/3 lenses and not muck with an adapter.

The person upgrading from m4/3 to a larger body has to buy new lenses no matter what, and that's a brand switch point. That's not a strategic advantage.

[ChrisA]

The DP1 on the other hand is 4.3 x 2.4 x 1.2 inches. Completely different scale.

That's correct. The DP1 is about the same size as a traditional Leica range finder camera. The one they've been making for 50+ years. These camera are 35mm full frame and use interchangeable lenses but lack the mirror box and prism of an SLR. So with a 4/3 or APS-C size sensor the new camera could slightly smaller than a Leica but by only a few millimeters.

But what everyone here forgets is that that biggest thing you loose whaen you remove the penta prism and mirror box is cost. The mirror box, prism and focal plane shutter are big expensive mechanical devices. So these new camera will sell at a price point well below an entry level SLR. To most buyers price is the single most importent feature and the think they look for first. These should sell well.

Mirror boxes are expensive devices to make because they need to have very high level of mechanical precision. The optical path length from the lens to the sensor (or film) has to be exactly the same as the path length from lens to focus screen to within thousandths of an inch. Older camera used to use hair thin bras shims to make this adjustment. The mirror not only has to flip up and out of the way but return to the exact same place every time to within thousandths of an inch. It's hard to make a device that can do this tens or hundreds of thousands of times without fail.

[compuwar]

I have the E-420 and I wonder would I have bought this if I knew about the m4/3rds? Probably not.

This is why I think it may be a bad move for 4/3rds fans- if 75% of the 4/3rds market in the future becomes the m-4/3rds market, where does that leave 4/3rds?



While I agree with some of his points, the reality is that micro4/3rds will soon be something concrete, but micro-APS cameras? Nobody knows if this is even in Canon/Nikon’s pipeline (and if so, would they dedicate good R&D to its evolution?). Isn’t their battle on the FF front their priority?



No, their priority is gaining and keeping market share and margins- this may offset the margins piece some, but also as Thom talks about a rumored Coolpix, he's talking the P&S division, not the SLR division at Nikon- different resources, though with an APS-C sensor, they may get loaned some SLR resources, it's not a big deal- it won't impact their dSLR operations to do it, and I'd suspect the same is true of Canon or Sony. The only major difference is going to be lenses, as they would likely need to tool up a new line for the larger image circle.


I think Oly/Pana have the advantage also in that:

1. Olympus already has experience making smaller/lighter high-quality lenses. I think this will be their ace. The popularity of their recent Pancake and fantastic zooms (e.g. Zuiko 12-60mm) reveals what kind of lenses we can expect in the future.


Both Canon and Nikon make lots of small lenses inside and outside of the photographic world- I wouldn't rely on this as a strategic differentiator, most still images today come from those two giants- steppers, binoculars and riflescopes are all samall high-quality optics.


2. Panasonic is an electronic giant with expertise with LCD (Viera technology) and video (which will no doubt become part of the tech of m4/3rds cameras.) Imagine, recording video with DSLR standard lenses!? Very exciting.

Nikon has the best back-of-camera LCDs currently on the market. Canon's had SLR lens mount video for a whole bunch of years. All the world needs is more jumpy, poorly-lit single-chip video with bad sound! ;)

[tony-in-japan]

The OP quoted the first line of the DP announcement, but not the second - and I'm starting to think that's the really important part of it: "it's fair to say that this "extension / addition" to the Four Thirds standard is finally able to deliver on the original promise of that format" (emphasis mine). Basically the point of the statement is that Olympus hasn't, up until now, delivered on what they claimed they were going to offer with 4/3.

To be fair to Olympus, at the time of the release of the existing 4/3rds, was the technology available to be able to create a compact Electronic Viewfinder with Interchangeable Lens camera? Even now in 2008, EVF technology or Live View is disappointing to most, so maybe 2008 is the ideal time for the birth of m4/3rds with the technology now available. Plus with Panasonic onboard, I am sure their expertise will be paramount for the evolution of non-OVF solutions.

People are already switching from point-and-shoots to dSLRs. P&S sales are not projecting well.

And what is the reason consumers are switching? Because they have no other option to get better IQ than to step-up to DSLR which is where m4/3rds comes into play. Consumers can still have compact and light without sacrificing DSLR quality.

It is something that should be congratulated and supported by consumers interested in the evolution of photographic technology, especially those loyal to other brands. Otherwise, what you are supporting is the continuation of the megapixel game of squeezing more into the same size sensor. If m4/3rds does fail, then you have no excuse if the status quo remains and you didn’t support this new gateway of opportunity, because Canon and Nikon will most likely continue to churn out similar compacts (the new flagship Compact Nikon is an example of this continuing trend). They will not need to create something different and innovative while they are soaking up the profits and there is no alternative on the market. It will be interesting to see if Canon’s G10 will come with a DSLR size sensor or will continue the trend... 16 megapixels anyone?

[tony-in-japan]

I know loads of people who would be potential buyers of a really compact camera like this...

Well, I was interested in how many non-Olympus users would support this new system, so I started a thread on Dpreview. It seems this new system is generally receiving positive interest with many keeping a curious eye on developments:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1018&thread=28850263

[Abstract]

Not really, but I think it's a small market. Enthusiasts who understand that the 1/1.6" sensor in a point and shoot cannot compare to a 4/3 or APS-C sensor are going to be interested in this kind of camera for its portability, assuming it's small enough.

If it's only slightly bigger (or perhaps even smaller) than a DP1, I think a lot of pros and casual users would buy one. A lot of people seem interested, although whether interest = sales is another matter. I think an m4/3 camera would sell really well, but a lot of its success will depend on whether it's as "fast" to use as a DSLR. It can't have shutter lag like a p&s. Otherwise, I'd rather stick to my Fuji F31.



The Olympus E-420 really is not much smaller than APS-C cameras.

The E-420 is 5.1 x 3.6 x 2.1 inches.
The 450D is 5.1 x 3.9 x 2.4 inches.

sure it's smaller and lighter, but not significantly so. It's the same class of camera.

Depends on how you measure the camera. If you go and hold them, or try to put them into a jacket pocket, there's a pretty big real-world difference in feel. I did this using the Nikon D40x and E-420, the D40x being smaller than the 450D (if I remember correctly). The E420, with no real hand-grip and small stature, is 8 mm shorter and 8 mm thinner. In practicality, that's a huge difference, even if it doesn't seem like a lot. Attach the Olympus 25 mm pancake lens, and the difference is even greater.

Even as a Nikon user, I don't think I'd buy a D40x + Sigma 30 mm lens (or any small Nikon lens you can think of.....I can't think of one) if I wanted a small, practical DSLR setup. I'd get the setup that Tony-in-Japan has.

To give you another example, I went from a small Canon IXUS of some sort (forget the model.....IXUS 40 or something), and upgraded to a Fuji F31fd after the announcement of the F40. I think my old Canon was 0.2" (5 mm) thinner than my F31fd. The difference sounded miniscule, and I hate picky people. Anyway, turns out I was VERY wrong about the 0.2". :p :o Great camera, but not a great size. I could have purchased the F40, which was as thin as my IXUS, but I was being a photography snob at the time and wanted manual controls.


I also don't see how this really helps normal 4/3 lens sales to achieve good volumes, since anyone going m4/3 is more likely to buy m4/3 lenses and not muck with an adapter.

The person upgrading from m4/3 to a larger body has to buy new lenses no matter what, and that's a brand switch point. That's not a strategic advantage.

That's true. I don't see how Olympus can convince m4/3 users to use an adapter, although an m4/3 user who likes having only 1 camera may buy small, compact m4/3 lenses for general street photography, but buy 4/3rd lenses when larger telephoto range is required. After all, an m4/3rd camera with a "large" m4/3rd lens defeats its reason for existing. The point of the m4/3rd is to remain compact, and if you're going to get a 300 mm equiv. lens anyway, it may as well be a 4/3rds version, seeing as how an m4/3rds version of a 300 zoom lens (or prime) + the m4/3 camera isn't going to be pocketable regardless of hard you try to jam it into a pocket.
But I agree with you. I really don't know how Oly

[Westside guy]

... But I agree with you. I really don't know how Oly

Abstract, you're a master of suspense!!! The anticipation is killing me!!! :D

[tony-in-japan]

Abstract, you're a master of suspense!!! The anticipation is killing me!!! :D

He is not called ‘Abstract’ for nothing you know! :rolleyes:

Well, I heard on the grapevine that there will be an international gathering of Olympus users with a special surprise for those particularly interested in the m4/3rds system. Some have mentioned it might be a prototype of the m4/3rds camera they could have a play with! Could be here sooner than a newly designed Macbook Pro... :eek:

Three wishes would make my year:

iPhone 3G (already came true! (after a 1 year wait!) :D)
A newly-designed Macbook Pro to replace my PBG4 (still tapping my feet...)
A new m4/3rds camera with a selection of lovely sleek primes...

[srf4real]

I'll take two µ4/3 weather sealed bodies, a µ12-100mm f/2.0 and a micro 100-400mm f/4 weather sealed lens, specifically designed to match image circle to digital sensor area... with Olympus quality optics for an equivalent reach of 24-800mm in full frame terms, all at a weight and size that makes that brick of a camera and bazooka of a lens the other 'pro' is lugging around be the "this is what cameras used to look like before Olympus and Panasonic innovated new technology again" example... oh yeah don't forget your wheelbarrow Canon dude!:p

Olympus already has a lens that is less than 5 inches long reaching 600mm equivalent with outstanding IQ for it's low price, but it's not too fast. (70-300mm f/4-5.6) I will keep my eye on this tid bit.;)

My biggest concern is with the EVF... time delay is not good for action photography. Probably a half second delay, at least between what you see and what you get.

[Everythingisnt]

Ha. Just finished reading this on digg this morning. Looks pretty neat, I hope it brings more into the digital rangefinder field– the selection is pretty lacking and pretty expensive right now.

What he said.

[tony-in-japan]

A generous member from Dpreview kindly translated a recent interview from Japanese to English with Mr Ogawa Haruo (who is head of Olympus Imaging’s SLR division and was originally a technician and spent 20 years occupied in research).

It is quite interesting especially if you want to know more about the upcoming micro 4/3rds system. Probably the next best news after the original press release/Japanese presentation.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1022&thread=28933263

Regards,
Tony

[Col127]

sounds phenomenal :) can't wait to see what comes out from this!

Phil Askey, Editor of the popular photography website Dpreview.com, wrote the following:

“This is without doubt the most exciting digital photography announcement this year.”

With Canon and Nikon (and Sony) battling it out on the professional FF front with their heavy and large bodies/lenses, there will soon be a great option for those more interested in compact, portable and light photography while upholding DSLR image quality.

There are some of us who are tired of the compact P&S megapixel game which is increasingly offering consumers more MPs in the same small sensor size -- meaning decreasing image quality on photos. What many consumers want is good IQ in a compact form. The Sigma DP1 was close. The E-420 with pancake was close too. The upcoming Lumix LX3 looks interesting, but still has a similar sensor size to compacts.

The welcome news of a new, upcoming system that gets rid of the mirror-reflex design of traditional DSLRs and instead will use an Electronic Viewfinder with Interchangable Lenses capability will be released by a joint-venture between Olympus (great optical company) and Panasonic (electronics giant) called micro-Four-Thirds.

This is great news for compact and prosumer lovers. A camera with a sensor area four times more than on a P&S camera, that will be compact and light with the DSLR’s capability to use interchangeable high-quality zoom or prime lenses is what the excitement is all about (and Olympus makes some of the best lenses in the industry). Check out the news/interest on the forums on Dpreview.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0808/08080501microfourthirds.asp

I am definitely excited. If I can get image quality anywhere near I can get on my current E-420 with Pancake, then I will be a happy man. For all those doubting the IQ you can get from Olympus 4/3rds sensors, please check out my Flickr Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/26154011@N07/

[tony-in-japan]

Is this a fake or real Panasonic micro 4/3rds body???

Up to you to decide!

Personally, even though they are CGI visuals, there is something about them that is ‘pro’ looking -- with the design curves, type layout/style and errr... okay, I am just having an intuitive guess. Or maybe I’m being naive!

I guess, others from Mac Rumors will be better at judging the authenticity of ‘mock up visuals’ than me :p

Anybody else on their opinion?

[srf4real]

Olympus is way too careful to allow that image to leak, I'm sure it's a fake... it does resemble my Panasonic L1, though, only thinner and tinier. Definitely something to look forward to! That same website has 'leaked' info about a tweener Oly body with really appealing specs... again I don't put much weight in their source... kind of like the National Enquirer here in the U. S. - doing anything to make headlines whether it is fact or fiction. :rolleyes:

When they 'leaked' images of the E-3 a few months before its release, their mock-ups were way off from the actual camera.;)

[jv17]

sounds good to me though..

[tony-in-japan]

Those CGI visuals of a Panasonic micro 4/3rds body were created from an enthusiastic Japanese guy just having fun. Pretty good though in my opinion. If you look on the back, the jog-dial looks very, very similar to the dial of the Canon G9!

Here are some more of his mocks...

Someone should give him a job! I like his attachable EVF! Now, if it could only rotate on an axis, or even be detachable and wireless!! That would open up possibilities of shooting (and self-portraits!) :cool:

[srf4real]

Someone should give him a job! Ya they are as good looking as anything I have seen.

Imagine a 24-84mm equivalent fov kit lens of Olympus or Leica quality glass that is the diameter of a large coin and weighs about the same! You could keep the whole kit in your pants pockets lol! That pancake lens might get lost in the laundry...

[tony-in-japan]

Okay, to keep this thread updated, finally we have an actual product of the worlds first mirror-less interchangeable camera: the Lumix G1.

Here is the link from Dpreview:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0809/08091202panasonic_DMC_G1.asp

My initial thoughts are that it is a pretty good 1.0 version product! And only 1 month after the initial announcement is quite impressive. Looking forward to seeing what the EVF is actually like.

Personally, I am more interested in a non-DSLR form-factor, so I have hopes Olympus’s m4/3 version can aim towards something more streamlined and different -- maybe even a range-finder style portable version.

The photo that caught my attention the most of the G1 is the mock-up of the 20mm f1.7 pancake lens! Now we are talking more portability!

[srf4real]

Imo, it's a waste of resources that should have been spent on putting that 12Mp sensor in a weather sealed L2 upgrade. The E-420 is barely any larger and weighs less with kit lens. No optical viewfinder, two lenses that are not 4/3 standard and 4/3 lenses need adapter... I don't know who they think will buy this for $400 more than a E-420 costs but it won't be me. get it down to the size of a pack of cigarettes and smooth, rectangular to fit in shirt pocket with pancake f/1.4 18mm lens and it might be handy for indoor snapshots... I'll be taking the ones that count with a real dslr camera.;) Can u tell I'm disappointed?:p

[Digital Skunk]

Imo, it's a waste of resources that should have been spent on putting that 12Mp sensor in a weather sealed L2 upgrade. The E-420 is barely any larger and weighs less with kit lens. No optical viewfinder, two lenses that are not 4/3 standard and 4/3 lenses need adapter... I don't know who they think will buy this for $400 more than a E-420 costs but it won't be me. get it down to the size of a pack of cigarettes and smooth, rectangular to fit in shirt pocket with pancake f/1.4 18mm lens and it might be handy for indoor snapshots... I'll be taking the ones that count with a real dslr camera.;) Can u tell I'm disappointed?:p

Yes indeed and rightfully so. Much as the industry expected the micro 4/3rds system is starting off on the wrong foot. The G1 isn't what much of the shooters in the world wanted. We DO want that digital range-finder for under $1000, we didn't want a smaller tighter SLR that is only a fraction smaller than the XT series or D40 but more expensive.

And we didn't want to have to get all new lenses just to keep the same functionality as our full sized, larger sensor SLRs.

[Col127]

yeah this looks really interesting :)

Phil Askey, Editor of the popular photography website Dpreview.com, wrote the following:

“This is without doubt the most exciting digital photography announcement this year.”

With Canon and Nikon (and Sony) battling it out on the professional FF front with their heavy and large bodies/lenses, there will soon be a great option for those more interested in compact, portable and light photography while upholding DSLR image quality.

There are some of us who are tired of the compact P&S megapixel game which is increasingly offering consumers more MPs in the same small sensor size -- meaning decreasing image quality on photos. What many consumers want is good IQ in a compact form. The Sigma DP1 was close. The E-420 with pancake was close too. The upcoming Lumix LX3 looks interesting, but still has a similar sensor size to compacts.

The welcome news of a new, upcoming system that gets rid of the mirror-reflex design of traditional DSLRs and instead will use an Electronic Viewfinder with Interchangable Lenses capability will be released by a joint-venture between Olympus (great optical company) and Panasonic (electronics giant) called micro-Four-Thirds.

This is great news for compact and prosumer lovers. A camera with a sensor area four times more than on a P&S camera, that will be compact and light with the DSLR’s capability to use interchangeable high-quality zoom or prime lenses is what the excitement is all about (and Olympus makes some of the best lenses in the industry). Check out the news/interest on the forums on Dpreview.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0808/08080501microfourthirds.asp

I am definitely excited. If I can get image quality anywhere near I can get on my current E-420 with Pancake, then I will be a happy man. For all those doubting the IQ you can get from Olympus 4/3rds sensors, please check out my Flickr Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/26154011@N07/