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MacRumors
Jan 7, 2004, 12:49 PM
A Mercury News article (http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/7652551.htm) reports on Apple's new 'iPod Mini'. According to this article:Phil Schiller, Apple vice president of worldwide product marketing, also said Apple had not ruled out making an iPod at capacities smaller than 4GB.With the Mini iPod rumors (http://ipod.macrumors.com/) over the past few weeks being at least partially accurate... it's not unreasonable to conclude that even smaller capacity iPods are, in fact, being prototyped at Apple. Whether Apple can reach a significantly lower price point, remains unclear... but the introduction of the 2.0GB Cornice Drive (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/01/20040105151253.shtml) is likely not coincidence alone.

Awimoway
Jan 7, 2004, 12:51 PM
I believe ThinkSecret stands by the notion that a 2 Gb mini is in the works.

desdomg
Jan 7, 2004, 12:51 PM
Well, on current form Apple would most likely produce a 2gig mini mini, that is just slightly smaller than the current model and costs $20 less.....

yoman
Jan 7, 2004, 12:53 PM
A mini mini!
That sounds ridiculous. How small will it be ( size of a chiclet gum piece)

:)

centauratlas
Jan 7, 2004, 12:53 PM
I still think a lower price iPod is a good idea. I might steal some sales from the bigger ones, but I still believe that it would get more from people who wouldn't buy a large size/high priced one anyway. The increase in sales, coming from others, would more than make up for lost sales from big ones.

They have to know that at some point in the next few years, you'll be able to get a 8GB flash memory card cheaply and someone will use it for an MP3 player.

iChan
Jan 7, 2004, 12:56 PM
i was kinda hoping for a 2 GB miniPod.

does anyone know if the ipod mini will look correct with the Belkin tunedok???

anyone knw??

sparks9
Jan 7, 2004, 12:57 PM
I don't think the minimini iPod would be smaller physically, it would probably use the same case but just have less HD space.

david_r_p
Jan 7, 2004, 01:00 PM
I feel that this might be wishful thinking. Personally, I was hoping for a sub-$200 device yesterday. Not because I want one (I have a 30 gig ipod now), but because I want Apple to be dominant in this market. I'm sure they market tested the pricing, but my gut tells me $249 is too high for the "high end flash market" SJ wants to compete in.

I think it's only natural for we Mac-faithful to speculate on the "next" great device that Apple will release when what they actually release is less than hoped for.

p.s. I hope I'm wrong and Apple sells millions of these things.

arn
Jan 7, 2004, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by david_r_p
I feel that this might be wishful thinking.

It's not though.

Do you think the Mini iPod rumors were just the product of someone's imagination... and oh look, Apple happened to make a mini iPod at the exact same time?

It's clear the Mini iPod rumor sources were real. As a result, it's not unreasonable to conclude that the rest of the information is true and not just speculation.

The flipside to this example is something like the iBox... which NO ASPECT of came true. You can discard the entire rumor.

arn

Mord
Jan 7, 2004, 01:04 PM
do you have any idea how badly mini ipod's suck in the uk they cost 200 ($364)!!!!!!!!!!!!!

VicMacs
Jan 7, 2004, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by Hector
do you have any idea how badly mini ipod's suck in the uk they cost 200 ($364)!!!!!!!!!!!!!

cant you order one in the US applestore and have it fedexed to you?

you wont pay 100 dollars for that

pjkelnhofer
Jan 7, 2004, 01:10 PM
If they could find a way to put a 2 Gb drive into the current mini, I would believe it. But I find it hard to believe that Apple will make a third form factor for the iPod anytime soon.

I think our best hope for a sub $200 iPod is a price drop on the 4Gb in about six months (I would not be suprised to see an 8Gb for $249 and the low end iPod become the 20 Gb model at the same time).

Mr.Hey
Jan 7, 2004, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by desdomg
Well, on current form Apple would most likely produce a 2gig mini mini, that is just slightly smaller than the current model and costs $20 less.....


Current form factor; anything smaller and it runs into the same problems as the competition that SJ mentioned --- 1.5Gigs 2Gigs 3Gigs(?) and maybe 5Gigs by the next revision.

MongoTheGeek
Jan 7, 2004, 01:13 PM
I doubt the 2gig iPod would ever happen. I figure the size of the mini-Pod was determined roughly the same way the size of the CD was.

[apocryphal history lesson]
The president of sony decided on the size of the CD so that it would be big enough to hold all of Beethoven's 9th Symphony which runs a bit over 70 minutes, The size of a CD.
[/apocryphal history lesson]

Steve looked at the size of his favorites file and said 4gigs...

give it 6 months and prices will drop to 150.

Mord
Jan 7, 2004, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by VicMacs
cant you order one in the US applestore and have it fedexed to you?

you wont pay 100 dollars for that

If you could do that the uk apple store would be redundent thanks nyway

It's just the cost of liveing in country with a fairly elected leader and a national health service (we would have free uni if the lib dems were in power

17.5% VAT

g30ffr3y
Jan 7, 2004, 01:16 PM
*The flipside to this example is something like the iBox... which NO ASPECT of came true. You can discard the entire rumor.*

didnt that phillips streamium thing sort of fill in the blanks on the ibox rumors???

arn
Jan 7, 2004, 01:21 PM
Originally posted by g30ffr3y
*The flipside to this example is something like the iBox... which NO ASPECT of came true. You can discard the entire rumor.*

didnt that phillips streamium thing sort of fill in the blanks on the ibox rumors???

not really... it'd be like pointing to the Rio mp3 player as proof of the mini iPod manufacturers.

arn

sw1tcher
Jan 7, 2004, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by david_r_p
I feel that this might be wishful thinking. Personally, I was hoping for a sub-$200 device yesterday. Not because I want one (I have a 30 gig ipod now), but because I want Apple to be dominant in this market. I'm sure they market tested the pricing, but my gut tells me $249 is too high for the "high end flash market" SJ wants to compete in.

I think it's only natural for we Mac-faithful to speculate on the "next" great device that Apple will release when what they actually release is less than hoped for.

p.s. I hope I'm wrong and Apple sells millions of these things.

Yeah. A good price would be something like $229 or $239.

To me, it's about the public's perception. $229/$239 is much closer to $199 than $249, even though it's only a $20/$10 difference (not much, i know). But IMO, people are more like to go "Oh, the iPod mini is only $30 more than this Rio, and it holds over 10x more songs, too! I'll just get the mini instead."

At the $229/$239 price, it also doesn't make people say "Well, the 15GB iPod is only $50 more than the mini. I'll get that one instead." Unless, that's what Apple is trying to get people to do?

Oh well, just doing some (not very good?) thinking.

pjkelnhofer
Jan 7, 2004, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by MongoTheGeek
[apocryphal history lesson]
The president of sony decided on the size of the CD so that it would be big enough to hold all of Beethoven's 9th Symphony which runs a bit over 70 minutes, The size of a CD.
[/apocryphal history lesson]

This is a great story. I had never heard it befored, but I even found it on Sony's website:
from the Sony website (http://www.sony.net/Fun/SH/1-20/h1.html)
But it was Ohga, a trained musician, who decisively presented Sony's argument for a 12 cm, seventy-five minute disc. He argued that, Just as a curtain is never lowered halfway through an opera, a disc should be large enough to hold all of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony.
May or may not be true, but still great story. Oh, the things I have learned on these forums.

I suspect the iPod mini size is more based on what size drive was availible, affordable and made with Apple specs. Of course, you were probably being sarcastic.

Powerbook G5
Jan 7, 2004, 01:27 PM
For me, a 2-3 gig iPod would be pretty awesome. Considering I have about 950 megs of songs in iTunes, at 2-3 gigs, I could still triple my library and still have the space to fit it all in iTunes. I know I could get another player for cheaper and just convert my AAC to mp3 or something to play them on, but I would love an iPod, I just don't care to spend the money for 15 gigs when I don't ever see myself needing the space. I am not one for huge music collections, I just have a small CD collection and a collection of songs that I like and generally stick to at any given time, so I have no need to ever have 15-40 gigs worth of songs with me at any given point. Even with 2 gigs worth of music, that'd be more than enough to last for a couple of days worth of continuous music, and I don't see when I'd even listen to that much music.

desdomg
Jan 7, 2004, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by arn
I
The flipside to this example is something like the iBox... which NO ASPECT of came true. You can discard the entire rumor.

arn

Well, you certainly gave it lots of prominence on your site ARN - what were your sources again? You did move it from page 2 to page 1 after all ...

pjkelnhofer
Jan 7, 2004, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by arn
The flipside to this example is something like the iBox... which NO ASPECT of came true. You can discard the entire rumor.

arn

Does this mean I should uncross my fingers and put my old DVD player back on top of the TV?
Damn! :)

sonofslim
Jan 7, 2004, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by MongoTheGeek
I doubt the 2gig iPod would ever happen. I figure the size of the mini-Pod was determined roughly the same way the size of the CD was.

[apocryphal history lesson]
The president of sony decided on the size of the CD so that it would be big enough to hold all of Beethoven's 9th Symphony which runs a bit over 70 minutes, The size of a CD.
[/apocryphal history lesson]

Steve looked at the size of his favorites file and said 4gigs...


i've heard the CD thing too, although its veracity is uncertain (http://www.snopes.com/music/media/cdlength.htm). as for the iPod mini, seems more likely that 1,000 songs is a nice round number with just enough zeroes to impart a sense of value and technolust that fits with Apple's branding strategy.

voodoofish
Jan 7, 2004, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by Hector
If you could do that the uk apple store would be redundent thanks nyway

It's just the cost of liveing in country with a fairly elected leader and a national health service (we would have free uni if the lib dems were in power

17.5% VAT


Um no, if you add VAT to the US price (US prices don't include sales tax, which varies from about 6-8% state-to-state) it's $293, not $364. Even including the sales tax difference, the iPod mini is more expensive in the UK than the 15GB iPod in the states. I don't see what the NHS has to do with that (and note the US spends as more money as a % of GDP on state health care as we do (in 1997 6.5 vs our 5.8) ~and~ their GDP is higher than ours; I know where I'd rather live). I qualify for student discount and yet iLife costs more with a student discount in the UK than the full price in the US. I'm just gonna buy them both on a trip over there; the price difference is ludacris.

1macker1
Jan 7, 2004, 01:32 PM
Knowing apple they'll cost $229 bucks.

arn
Jan 7, 2004, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by desdomg
Well, you certainly gave it lots of prominence on your site ARN - what were your sources again? You did move it from page 2 to page 1 after all ...

wrong rumors creep in all the time. :)
It was actually posted on Page 1 (with several caveats (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/01/20040102174411.shtml)) because people kept talking about it, and submitting it. Note the iBox didn't even make the rumor roundup (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/01/20040101213714.shtml)

The only independent info I had on it was actually placed into the Unconfirmed pile (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/12/20031230043507.shtml).

Don't worry... rumor wrapup/winners/losers to follow.... ;)

arn

ramallite
Jan 7, 2004, 01:42 PM
Any chance that Steve Jobs actually planned to introduce a 2GB iPod yesterday with a Cornice drive... but got pissed off because Cornice spilled their beans a day early?? The reason I thought of this is because it happened before.. remember a couple of years ago when a new crop of Power Mac G4s were announced without the rumored updated ATI graphics chips because ATI had prempted Jobs a day before? I think ATI issued an apology of some sort and the Power Macs were eventually updated with the new chipsets a couple of weeks afterwards.

But then again, of this had happened again then Phil Schiller would not be talking about a smaller iPod "sometime in the future"... so probably not.... sorry just thinking out loud...

Powerbook G5
Jan 7, 2004, 01:45 PM
They had to have spent a good amount of time making these iPod minis, so I doubt they'd suddenly switch to a different HD and specs only a day before unveiling them.

Stella
Jan 7, 2004, 01:45 PM
We can all guess the price now...

take the most expensive flash device - that will be 128Mb flash device and add $50.

(128Mb flash because the 4Gig mini iPod was after the 256Mb flash market, so one can assume the 2gig will be targetted at the 128Mb MP3 player market)

Awimoway
Jan 7, 2004, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by Powerbook G5
They had to have spent a good amount of time making these iPod minis, so I doubt they'd suddenly switch to a different HD and specs only a day before unveiling them.

I don't think anyone is suggesting they would switch to a different HD; rather, they will need another kind of HD to make the smaller-capacity mini in addtion to the 4 GB version.

ramallite
Jan 7, 2004, 01:50 PM
whoops - I meant a 2GB Cornice ALONG with the 4GB Hitachi not instead of it.... but announced only the 4 but not the 2... another theory: maybe they couldn't announce the 2 because it still has some manufacturing issues to sort out ... or negotiating with Cornice is still taking time and may not pan out... During the keynote I was on my toes expecting yet another "one more thing" and a "we also have a smaller 2GB for $179" or something... again just thinking out loud...

Lanbrown
Jan 7, 2004, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by pjkelnhofer
If they could find a way to put a 2 Gb drive into the current mini, I would believe it.

HD manufacturers sell a wide range of HD models, but yet they really have less then half of that. If they have 40GB for each side of a platter, they could offer three or more choices, a 40GB version, a 60GB and a 80GB. How do they do that? They physically wreck some of the disk, which limit the storage capacity. They charge less for the 40GB then the 60GB, which is less than the 80GB, but in reality, they are all basically the same drive and they 40 and 60 versions have an extra step to go through, but cost less.

The big question is how much cheaper a 2GB one would be.

TranceClubMusic
Jan 7, 2004, 01:53 PM
Watch the 2GIG iPod come out @ $239.99
LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO:rolleyes:

Powerbook G5
Jan 7, 2004, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by Awimoway
I don't think anyone is suggesting they would switch to a different HD; rather, they will need another kind of HD to make the smaller-capacity mini in addtion to the 4 GB version.

I was replying to the guy who said Apple may have switched because the other company announced their 2 gig HD a day before the keynote and Apple used Hitachi to spite them.

pjkelnhofer
Jan 7, 2004, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by sonofslim
i've heard the CD thing too, although its veracity is uncertain (http://www.snopes.com/music/media/cdlength.htm). as for the iPod mini, seems more likely that 1,000 songs is a nice round number with just enough zeroes to impart a sense of value and technolust that fits with Apple's branding strategy.
After reading the whole Sony History page (http://www.sony.net/Fun/SH/1-20/h1.html) again, the story is not that anyone demanded it fit Beethoven's 9th or that it was some one's favorite piece of music. They were chosing between different sizes and they chose the 12cm, 74 minute disc because it could fit Beethoven's 9th (or most other popular classical music pieces).
The Phillips guys were worried it would not fit in a suitcoat pocket, but it turns out it does! I think the whole story is prettying interesting (or maybe I am just a bigger geek than I thought).
Reading the complete article it does not sound like an urban legend. It sounds more like the History page is written from notes of the actual meetings (I would not be suprised if a company like Sony still had minutes from meetings in the 1970's).

Or maybe Sony has a very good fiction writer just makes these stories up.

frankly
Jan 7, 2004, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by Macrumors
A Mercury News article (http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/7652551.htm) reports on Apple's new 'iPod Mini'. According to this article:With the Mini iPod rumors (http://ipod.macrumors.com/) over the past few weeks being at least partially accurate... it's not unreasonable to conclude that even smaller capacity iPods are, in fact, being prototyped at Apple. Whether Apple can reach a significantly lower price point, remains unclear... but the introduction of the 2.0GB Cornice Drive (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/01/20040105151253.shtml) is likely not coincidence alone.

Arn,

Do you have any idea how much the 4GB Hitachi drive is costing Apple? Since you list the price of the 2GB Cornice at $70 in volume I am very curious to see the price difference between that and the Hitachi.

This could be our biggest clue as to whether Apple will release a 2GB model soon and if so, how much it will cost.

If the Hitachi is very close in price then I would not expect a 2GB model soon. If they are close to $50 apart then it is more likely.

Later, Frank

pjkelnhofer
Jan 7, 2004, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by Powerbook G5
They had to have spent a good amount of time making these iPod minis, so I doubt they'd suddenly switch to a different HD and specs only a day before unveiling them.
I believe what was being implied was that both the 2Gb Cornice devices and the 4Gb Hitachi devices are ready to go, but thanks to Cornice's untimely announcement Apple decide to make us (and them) wait.
If Cornice drives really are sitting in iPod mini's somewhere, I am sure Cornice rather they be shown to the public now then hidden away for another two months.
Not that I think Apple is that spiteful. Personally, I doubt the 2Gb iPod minis existence, but who knows what will come out next Tuesday. :)

pkradd
Jan 7, 2004, 02:03 PM
Whether the 1 inch HD is 1.5, 2 or 4 GB, it is still the same size. Over 4 GB may make it thicker as it would probably use two discs within the drive. (Same as high cap. 1.8 drives.) Cornice has nothing to do with this. Hitachi makes the drive for the iPod Mini. Toshiba will come on line with their 1 inch HD's by late Spring. ANything less then a 1000 songs makes no sense. Also, a lower cap drive (2 GB) would not save that much money on cost. Half capacity doesn't mean half the price. Apple had to have all the components of the original iPod made smaller. This means former circuit board parts have probably become IC's. Assembly is even harder as well. This added to the cost. No "off the shelf components".

FlamDrag
Jan 7, 2004, 02:16 PM
Until the 4GB's ship, I doubt that 2GB's will be announced. If I were Apple - and it's good for the company that I am not - I would want to give everyone that immediately ordered a 4GB their iPod for several days before I debuted a 2GB version for a lower price. Otherwise we would see many borderline customers cancel their 4GB order and get a 2 instead.

Folks have been joking, but I would not be the least bit surprised to see a 2GB version cost $219-$229.

Furthermore, I would be absolutely shocked if the current iPod mini dropped in price before mid November 2004.

Mord
Jan 7, 2004, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by voodoofish
Um no, if you add VAT to the US price (US prices don't include sales tax, which varies from about 6-8% state-to-state) it's $293, not $364. Even including the sales tax difference, the iPod mini is more expensive in the UK than the 15GB iPod in the states. I don't see what the NHS has to do with that (and note the US spends as more money as a % of GDP on state health care as we do (in 1997 6.5 vs our 5.8) ~and~ their GDP is higher than ours; I know where I'd rather live). I qualify for student discount and yet iLife costs more with a student discount in the UK than the full price in the US. I'm just gonna buy them both on a trip over there; the price difference is ludacris.

The $364 figure is how much we pay for ipods in the uk, to give americans an idea how much more it costs.

they may spend more on there Privet health care but If you add the uk's privet and NHS spending per % of GDP is higher than the US's
Id rather live in the uk due to the fact that I know if I break my leg it wont break the bank

The uk is now a part of europe, europe has a way higher GNP than the U.S. I know where I'd rather live

Your iLife comment I totaly agree with thats the same point I was makeing with the ipod mini You must have completely missread it

sorry about the severly OT post but I had to state the facts.

OT: 2gb ipod's will never happen, 8gb minis and price reduction imminent in my opinion

kryten2000
Jan 7, 2004, 02:24 PM
So Ive been comparing mp3 players around the $200 mark and it looks like the ipodmini could contend.Check this offering from rio

http://www.digitalnetworksna.com/shop/_templates/item_main_Rio.asp?model=219&cat=35

for only 50 bucks you get more than twice the storage. Another thing about the 15 gig is that although its 300 ,you'll probably spend at least another 50-100 on a dock and case.So at that point you might as well get the 20 gig.Its so damn confusing.If they would at least include a dock with the mini that would be a much better deal and make the pricing make sense.

ipodmini dock and case 250
15 gig no accessories 300
20 & 40 gig dock and case 400 500

Doctor Q
Jan 7, 2004, 02:26 PM
I think that Apple must come out with cheaper iPod Minis to compete successfully with the "high-end half of the low-end market" as Steve Jobs proclaimed. Note that I didn't say anything about music capacity. Apple missed the guiding principle for the low-end of their line: price, price, and price. They chose to boast about 16 times the capacity for only $50 more than the highest priced competitor. Wrong! The proper product could be only twice the capacity, as long as it costs no more than the competition.

Not enough people are going to think of the iPod Mini as a bargain. It needs that reputation. They need a cheaper one soon, to get people hooked. Then they can sell those customers accessories and upgrades.

blueBomber
Jan 7, 2004, 02:27 PM
if the mini flops (and it's hard to tell at this point and time), Apple will blast out the remaining inventory at deep discounted prices; much like the TAM and the Cube, both of which were considered horribly overpriced when released. As it stands, I'm not interested in the mini, but if the price drops due to failure, I'll probably snap one up.

schewy
Jan 7, 2004, 02:36 PM
To all those who live in the UK and complain about the price of everything. Get over it! Everything in the UK is more expensive from cars to food. That's what you get for keeping the pound, drop it already and get the Euro.

You winge about price but refuse to do anything about it. Stop buying gear in the UK and get it somewhere else in the EU. Open borders/common market remember... Just think that in a few months a load of new CHEAP countries are joining up. Shop till you drop.

Just so you know I used to live in London, but left for Paris a few years ago.:rolleyes:

slipper
Jan 7, 2004, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by 1macker1
Knowing apple they'll cost $229 bucks. lol you beat me to it bro

sonofslim
Jan 7, 2004, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by Hector
2gb ipod's will never happen, 8gb minis and price reduction imminent in my opinion

interesting speculation, given the removal of the 10gb model... what do the rest of you think?

Awimoway
Jan 7, 2004, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by Powerbook G5
I was replying to the guy who said Apple may have switched because the other company announced their 2 gig HD a day before the keynote and Apple used Hitachi to spite them.

My apologies. :)

ethernet76
Jan 7, 2004, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by MongoTheGeek
I doubt the 2gig iPod would ever happen. I figure the size of the mini-Pod was determined roughly the same way the size of the CD was.

[apocryphal history lesson]
The president of sony decided on the size of the CD so that it would be big enough to hold all of Beethoven's 9th Symphony which runs a bit over 70 minutes, The size of a CD.
[/apocryphal history lesson]

Steve looked at the size of his favorites file and said 4gigs...

give it 6 months and prices will drop to 150.

Apple hasn't ever dropped prices on accessories. They've made them better. I think we'll see larger capacity before lower prices.

ramallite
Jan 7, 2004, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by Awimoway
My apologies. :)

I'm the guy who started this mess - no apologies needed because you were right - I didn't mean that Apple "SWITCHED" drives but meant to have a 2GB ALONGSIDE the 4GB as you correctly explained. You got what I meant and the Florida guy didn't...

jesuscandle
Jan 7, 2004, 03:20 PM
I think we're maybe all wrong about the mini. I think it's going to succeed for two related reasons:

1) Cost.
Yep, you heard me. Cost. Because it basically costs too much, not everyone will be able to get one. Therefore, those who do get one will be "cool." Which will make everyone who doesn't have one want one. And making everyone want something a good way to sell lots of it.

Think about it this way - I have a 500 dollar 30GB ipod. I only have 10 GB of music on it. I keep working at filling it, but part of its appeal, honestly, is that its better than everything else. It cost a lot. Which means that I don't know anyone else who has one. Which means that I'm pretty frickin' cutting edge. Plus, it makes my friends jealous.

2) "Fashion"
I've heard lots of people moan about how these aren't made to compete with the cheesiest flash-players. And they're right. Those are made for people who want the cheapest product.

I've also heard lots of people criticize the mini's as "fashion accessories." And I think that's exactly right. And that will boost sales immensely. Not only is it "cool," but you make a statement by which color you pick. Plus, it's small enough to really be a "wow" gadget. The white ipods are small, but they're not smaller than a cell phone. This is a gadget that still says "cool," "fashion," and "wow." Tell me that won't sell.

A few people have said derisively "Well, this will be huge with Japanese girls." To which I respond "Exactly."

pjkelnhofer
Jan 7, 2004, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by ethernet76
Apple hasn't ever dropped prices on accessories. They've made them better. I think we'll see larger capacity before lower prices.
Never?
Wasn't the 10Gb iPod originally $399, and the 3rd. Gen $299?
edit:
A quick double check confirms it:
2nd Gen. Specs (http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/consumer_electronics/stats/ipod.html)
3rd Gen. Specs (http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/consumer_electronics/stats/ipod_3rdgen.html)
In fact, the 2nd Gen. 10 Gb was $499 and later $399 when the 20Gb came out. Later, when the 3rd Gen. was released the 10 Gb came down to $299. Quite a drop, from $499 to $299. That makes the final version of the 10 Gb 60% of the original price.

jnasato
Jan 7, 2004, 03:32 PM
iPod mini mini... Screw that!, I want iPod HUGE, that holds 1TB and is the size of a closed 17" PowerBook.

Steve: "Yeah, we're trying to target and takeover the 500GB+ mp3 player market. ...Or, we're trying to create the market, rather. Cuz you see, previous generation, small-ass flash based players can hold, what, 15 songs?, and then you put it in your drawer because you're stupid, but with the iPod HUGE, you can hold 250,000 songs- in your very big pocket. Nearly 17,000 times more songs! -It'll be the best $3000 you'll ever spend."

I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

pjkelnhofer
Jan 7, 2004, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by kryten2000
So Ive been comparing mp3 players around the $200 mark and it looks like the ipodmini could contend.Check this offering from rio

http://www.digitalnetworksna.com/shop/_templates/item_main_Rio.asp?model=219&cat=35


I keep bringing this up, but one of the things that bothers me is that Apple compared the new mini to $100-$200, 128Mb-256Mb flash players. There are already HD players already in the same price range as the iPod mini. I guess Apple thinks the iPod mini's style, interface and iTunes compatibilty will be enough to dominate that market as well.

I just noticed Rio currently offers both a 1.5 Gb HD player for $199 and an 256Mb flash player for $199. You get 12 times the storage for the same price. How do they justify that?

ethernet76
Jan 7, 2004, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by pjkelnhofer
Never?
Wasn't the 10Gb iPod originally $399, and the 3rd. Gen $299?
edit:
A quick double check confirms it:
2nd Gen. Specs (http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/consumer_electronics/stats/ipod.html)
3rd Gen. Specs (http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/consumer_electronics/stats/ipod_3rdgen.html)
In fact, the 2nd Gen. 10 Gb was $499 and later $399 when the 20Gb came out. Later, when the 3rd Gen. was released the 10 Gb came down to $299. Quite a drop, from $499 to $299. That makes the final version of the 10 Gb 60% of the original price.

The original prices remained the same. the low-end iPod is still 299 as was the 5gb version back in the day. The 10 was demoted product status because it became easier to manufacture and it still fit well in the sizes they were looking for. But to think that instead of updating the 4gb and lowering the price instead is not in line with apple's history of product updates instead of price drops.

Also note, those are discontinued models when you now say the 2nd gen 10gb is now 60% cheaper. Discontinued models aren't really price reduced, they're trying to get rid of stock so they will even sometimes sell at a loss in order to make some money back on them.

edit: A quick double check shows that the gen 2 iPod is different than gen 3 even though the size is the same. So it wasn't like they were taking the gen 2 and pawning off just at a lower price, taking less profit.

tace
Jan 7, 2004, 04:01 PM
I think people are overlooking the fact that with the mini iPod, Steve Jobs said, hey I don't have to compete in price, I'll just keep my usual profit margins and sell 4GB iPod for a whopping $249. Those suckers will buy enough of my product to keep me in business.

This is why Gates is the Richest man owning a monster monopoly and Jobs is a hippi wannabe getting credit for other people's creativity.

pjkelnhofer
Jan 7, 2004, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by ethernet76
The original prices remained the same. the low-end iPod is still 299 as was the 5gb version back in the day. The 10 was demoted product status because it became easier to manufacture and it still fit well in the sizes they were looking for. But to think that instead of updating the 4gb and lowering the price instead is not in line with apple's history of product updates instead of price drops.

Also note, those are discontinued models when you now say the 2nd gen 10gb is now 60% cheaper. Discontinued models aren't really price reduced, they're trying to get rid of stock so they will even sometimes sell at a loss in order to make some money back on them.

I think you should double check. The original iPod was $399. The 10 Gb was released at $499 and later dropped to $399 (specifications) (http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/consumer_electronics/stats/ipod.html).
My point was that the 3rd Gen. 10 Gb NEW was 60% less that the original 10 Gb was when it came out.

Where are you getting your numbers from? Are you just relying on your memory? Did you read the link I included?

Mord
Jan 7, 2004, 04:07 PM
I think it will do well even though I think their silly and id never get one there not for macrumors members there for teenagers that consider the ipod "out of there range" but with the mini it is'nt that much more than flash based alternatives + it's cool It's not an alternative to the low end ipod it's an alternative to a crappy 256mb flash player renember 50 bucks is quite a difference to a teenager

voodoofish
Jan 7, 2004, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by Hector
The $364 figure is how much we pay for ipods in the uk, to give americans an idea how much more it costs.

they may spend more on there Privet health care but If you add the uk's privet and NHS spending per % of GDP is higher than the US's
Id rather live in the uk due to the fact that I know if I break my leg it wont break the bank

The uk is now a part of europe, europe has a way higher GNP than the U.S. I know where I'd rather live

Your iLife comment I totaly agree with thats the same point I was makeing with the ipod mini You must have completely missread it

sorry about the severly OT post but I had to state the facts.

OT: 2gb ipod's will never happen, 8gb minis and price reduction imminent in my opinion


Yeah I was agreeing with your post about the price differences, it's just then you went on to imply you thought it was all due to extra taxes in the UK that are spent on services that they don't have in the UK, and I was pointing out that acctually the price difference is huge even taking into account the only tax difference I'm aware of (although of course there may be other taxes that Apple encounters that are not so transparent), and so the price differences aren't perhaps as explainable as all that.

The politics is really irrelevant, it's just you were talking like you thought it was okay that the prices were so much higher because we have NHS etc, I was just pointing out it really isn't as simple as that and basically just trying to say we shouldn't write off poor pricing. (btw, *suprise surprise* (by that I mean the NHS discourages private health care spending) the UK only spent 1% of it's GDP on private healthcare in 1997 verses the US's 7.4%. This means the UK spent a total of 6.8% of GDP on health, with the US spending 13.9%. Also their GDP is far higher than the EUs - according to http://www.theglobalist.com/nor/GlobalistPapers/2001/07-18-01.shtml in 2000 their GDP was 9% higher than the EUs. Accoring to The Economist, America's GDP grew at 7.2% vs. 1.6% in Eurozone (I think those are annual rates based on Q3 2003). Sorry I know this is irrelvant just thought I'd put it in for interests sake, the point is:

Apples prices are bizzarly more expensive in the UK compared to US and I think they should try and do something about it because they must be running really inefficiently in Europe or something.


My iPod prediction - cheaper 2GB ones because anything >4GB looks excess for someone for something cheap. Would be great for upgrades when they run out of space. Hopefully they may revise them before they're even out in the UK, but I think they'll do that based on sales rather than anything we say or think.

I think the iLife pricing is fair (an idea for ppl annoyed might be wait till next version of Mac OSX is out since you'd buy it anyway and it'll be included in that I'd have thought since 99 is a little steep for yearly slight incremental updates anyway), but price differences between countries is bizarre (how can mailing a CD around the world cost that much?!?)

sushi
Jan 7, 2004, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by yoman
A mini mini!
That sounds ridiculous. How small will it be ( size of a chiclet gum piece)

:)
Don't laugh.

My flash player is the size of a small pack of gum. It plays MP3s and WAV files. Also records and plays FM radio. It has 256MB memory and connects via USB.

BTW, now they have a 512MB model.

Sushi

hokka
Jan 7, 2004, 04:22 PM
interesting... I just hope the finished product is nothing like this:

http://pocketcalculatorshow.com/walkman/graphics/walkman-girl2-small.jpg

;)

sushi
Jan 7, 2004, 04:24 PM
Originally posted by Mr.Hey
Current form factor; anything smaller and it runs into the same problems as the competition that SJ mentioned --- 1.5Gigs 2Gigs 3Gigs(?) and maybe 5Gigs by the next revision.
But is could be thinner with and lighter while maintaining the front (H&W) size.

The current iPod mini with the thickness of 1/4 inch and reduced weight would be very nice.

Sushi

pjkelnhofer
Jan 7, 2004, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by tace
I think people are overlooking the fact that with the mini iPod, Steve Jobs said, hey I don't have to compete in price, I'll just keep my usual profit margins and sell 4GB iPod for a whopping $249. Those suckers will buy enough of my product to keep me in business.

This is why Gates is the Richest man owning a monster monopoly and Jobs is a hippi wannabe getting credit for other people's creativity.
Why is everyone claiming Apple has such tremendous profit margins? Do they take into account the money spent on R&D for new products?

I suspect Apple (like most well run businesses) look at how many will sell at a given price and the profit per unit.
Additionally, they don't price things so that no people can afford them. They price them so just enough people can afford them.
Let's say the make $100 per mini (which they probably don't) and sell 1 million. That is $100 million.
If the drop the price $50 and made $50 per mini would the necessarily sell 2 million and make up the difference.
If the could drop their costs and make more per unit in the future it may make sense to drop the retail price while still being able to recouping their R&D costs on the mini and developing the next Apple product.
I think (and hope) that is the thinking behind Apple's pricing.

Seeing I didn't even go to business school to figure this out, I would guess the people at Apple know what they are doing.

Companies like Dell can sell computers so cheap because the do not "invent" anything new. They just assemble the parts.

sushi
Jan 7, 2004, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by Stella
We can all guess the price now...

take the most expensive flash device - that will be 128Mb flash device and add $50.

(128Mb flash because the 4Gig mini iPod was after the 256Mb flash market, so one can assume the 2gig will be targetted at the 128Mb MP3 player market)
Can't assume that.

Low end is becoming 256MB.

High end flash players are now 512MB.

Expect this to change to 1GB this year.

Sushi

pjkelnhofer
Jan 7, 2004, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by sushi
Can't assume that.

Low end is becoming 256MB.

High end flash players are now 512MB.

Expect this to change to 1GB this year.

Sushi

I agree. Let's just hope that by the time the high end flash is 1 Gb, there are 4Gb and 8Gb minis competively priced.
Not to mention the whole standard iPod line for those who want more storage may be 20Gb, 40Gb, and 60Gb by that time.

ethernet76
Jan 7, 2004, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by sonofslim
interesting speculation, given the removal of the 10gb model... what do the rest of you think?

if they have they keep the 4 as a lower capcity mini price to 200
updated high-end mini would be 6gb same price

I'm thinking, they have two ibooks(12,14), 3 powerbooks(12,15,17), might do the same thing mini Pods(4,6) iPods(15,30,50)

tace
Jan 7, 2004, 05:24 PM
Originally posted by pjkelnhofer
Why is everyone claiming Apple has such tremendous profit margins? Do they take into account the money spent on R&D for new products?

I suspect Apple (like most well run businesses) look at how many will sell at a given price and the profit per unit.
Additionally, they don't price things so that no people can afford them. They price them so just enough people can afford them.
Let's say the make $100 per mini (which they probably don't) and sell 1 million. That is $100 million.
If the drop the price $50 and made $50 per mini would the necessarily sell 2 million and make up the difference.
If the could drop their costs and make more per unit in the future it may make sense to drop the retail price while still being able to recouping their R&D costs on the mini and developing the next Apple product.
I think (and hope) that is the thinking behind Apple's pricing.

Seeing I didn't even go to business school to figure this out, I would guess the people at Apple know what they are doing.

Companies like Dell can sell computers so cheap because the do not "invent" anything new. They just assemble the parts.

I actually did go to business school and got to find out that Apple has very "healthy" profit margins. Yes, they do spend money in R&D and they do invent but you'd be surprised at how much thicker their margins are even compared to Dell. My point is that I have a problem with them overpricing things to make them be more of a class thing. I say, cheaper iPod minis for ALL.

ethernet76
Jan 7, 2004, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by pjkelnhofer
I think you should double check. The original iPod was $399. The 10 Gb was released at $499 and later dropped to $399 (specifications) (http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/consumer_electronics/stats/ipod.html).
My point was that the 3rd Gen. 10 Gb NEW was 60% less that the original 10 Gb was when it came out.

Where are you getting your numbers from? Are you just relying on your memory? Did you read the link I included?

The difference is 3 iPods exist. While only 1 mini Pod exists. Let's say apple doesn't introduce a 2gb version, or other model. When time comes to update the line, instead of dropping prices they'll instead upgrade capacity to something like a 6 or 8 or something while the low-end iPod gets bumped up to a 20 or something.

The reason why the 10 has had such longevity in the iPod product cycle is because it was able to filter down from the high-end model to the low-end model. While you can look at it your way, same product, just got cheaper, you can also look at it in the way it wasn't ever the same product. It started as the highest capacity, then migrated to the smallest capacity and then was discontinued.

pjkelnhofer
Jan 7, 2004, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by ethernet76
The difference is 3 iPods exist. While only 1 mini Pod exists. Let's say apple doesn't introduce a 2gb version, or other model. When time comes to update the line, instead of dropping prices they'll instead upgrade capacity to something like a 6 or 8 or something while the low-end iPod gets bumped up to a 20 or something.

The reason why the 10 has had such longevity in the iPod product cycle is because it was able to filter down from the high-end model to the low-end model. While you can look at it your way, same product, just got cheaper, you can also look at it in the way it wasn't ever the same product. It started as the highest capacity, then migrated to the smallest capacity and then was discontinued.

But why assume there will always be only one size of mini. Apple like to have a couple of choice for each product (3 PowerMacs, 3 PowerBooks, 3 iMacs, 2 iBooks, 2e Macs, 3 iPods, etc.) In fact, the iPod mini really doesn't fit into the way Apple usually sells products. Maybe, right now 4Gb drives are the only option from Hitachi (or 2Gb drives are so close in cost there is no reason to use them).

I don't think they will drop the price for no reason. I think when 8Gb drives are availible from Hitachi they will drop the price on the 4 Gb ($199 or $219) and have the 8Gb takes it's price point.

I would be suprised to see a smaller (1 or 2Gb) mini appear unless it is already designed and ready but is so far away from shipping they didn't want to announce it at MWSF (admittedly the Keynote would have been more powerful with 8x the music, 50% the size, and the same price as the RioPlayer).

More likely, Apple is already working on bigger minis (kind of an oxymoron). When Hitachi figures out how to make higher capacity cheaper drives, the mini will benefit.

Spagolli94
Jan 7, 2004, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by david_r_p
I feel that this might be wishful thinking. Personally, I was hoping for a sub-$200 device yesterday. Not because I want one (I have a 30 gig ipod now), but because I want Apple to be dominant in this market. I'm sure they market tested the pricing, but my gut tells me $249 is too high for the "high end flash market" SJ wants to compete in.

I think it's only natural for we Mac-faithful to speculate on the "next" great device that Apple will release when what they actually release is less than hoped for.

p.s. I hope I'm wrong and Apple sells millions of these things.

You hit the nail on the head. We can always dream though, can't we?

sockgap
Jan 7, 2004, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by Hector
they may spend more on there Privet health care but If you add the uk's privet and NHS spending per % of GDP is higher than the US's

Privet health care? What like for a privet hedge?
Although the English do like a nice shrubbery, I think "private" is the word you are looking for.

Macmaniac
Jan 7, 2004, 06:03 PM
If Apple put the new mini miniPod at $175 that would be the perfect price, $75 less then the high end one, and a $75 difference looks much better then a $50. I don't think we will see a $100-$150 iPod, the drives and fab just cost too much, besides Apple has to make a profit so $175 will be the base hopefully.

foniks2020
Jan 7, 2004, 06:16 PM
That this story was about Apple hooking up with the Mini Cooper to do a special deal like they did with the VW Beetle!

Buy a Mini Cooper and get a Mini iPod... not the best incentive but still a nice marketing ploy.

Photorun
Jan 7, 2004, 06:39 PM
2 GB iPod $199 would make sense, which is why Apple wont do it, they're the kings of mark up. As it's been told the iPod is 50% profit margin, so $199 would mean $149 (about) to make... hmm, that seems right but I should have said 50% OR MORE because Apple is all about charging a mint.

Macmaniac
Jan 7, 2004, 06:54 PM
In defense of the iPod look at a 256mb Flash player at $200 thats equivalent to $800 a gig, so in terms of a size cost comparison its a better deal with the iPod, but the $50 price diff is still going to cannibalize the sales of the 4 gig because the 15 is a better deal. However if you look at mini HD players from other companies its the same price, not only that, they offer larger storage models for $50 more, but u get a larger from factor.
Look at this
NOMAD Jukebox Zen Xtra 30GB
Navigate 30GB of music easily with the large, hi-res blue backlit LCD. $299

NOMAD MuVo 4GB
Combines 4GB capacity, high-speed USB2.0 loading and superb sound quality in a remarkably compact, easy to use package. Connects as a USB flash drive to carry music and data files.

$299
They are the same price, but does it cannibalize sales? Apple is not the only one with offerings like this. Heck its $75 a gig on the Creative product, so maybe we should not bash the mini that much.

frankly
Jan 7, 2004, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by pjkelnhofer
I keep bringing this up, but one of the things that bothers me is that Apple compared the new mini to $100-$200, 128Mb-256Mb flash players. There are already HD players already in the same price range as the iPod mini. I guess Apple thinks the iPod mini's style, interface and iTunes compatibilty will be enough to dominate that market as well.

I just noticed Rio currently offers both a 1.5 Gb HD player for $199 and an 256Mb flash player for $199. You get 12 times the storage for the same price. How do they justify that?

The reason they compared them to the Flash based players is because they have the next largest market segment. Steve pointed out that ALL other hard drive based players together only comprise 7% of the market.

Later, Frank

frankly
Jan 7, 2004, 07:06 PM
Originally posted by tace
I think people are overlooking the fact that with the mini iPod, Steve Jobs said, hey I don't have to compete in price, I'll just keep my usual profit margins and sell 4GB iPod for a whopping $249. Those suckers will buy enough of my product to keep me in business.

This is why Gates is the Richest man owning a monster monopoly and Jobs is a hippi wannabe getting credit for other people's creativity.

I don't know why people think this way. Bill Gates doesn't sell anything cheap. PCs that run windows are cheaper than Macs but let's be realistic:

Windows is the most expensive OS.
Microsoft Office is the most expensive office suite.
Their other apps aren't cheap either. There are plenty of reasons for the Microsoft monopoly (mainly illegal activity) that have nothing to do with the price they charge for their software.

Later, Frank

pjkelnhofer
Jan 7, 2004, 07:51 PM
Originally posted by frankly
The reason they compared them to the Flash based players is because they have the next largest market segment. Steve pointed out that ALL other hard drive based players together only comprise 7% of the market.

Later, Frank

Obviously, Rio doesn't believe that a 4Gb $250 model is going to crush the flash market if they plan to introduce their own. They must think there's more to the high-end flash market then just capacity. They have a 1.5Gb HD player and a 256Mb Flash player both priced at $199.

I agree that Steve was comparing the iPod to "high-end" flash players. I just don't understand why? There must people people who no matter what is out there are not going to spend $250 no matter how great the product is.

Don't get me wrong, I think the mini is going to succeed. I just don't believe it is going to eat in to the "high-end" flash market the way Steve said. I think it is going to go after the other 7% of the market (other HD players) and the iPod itself. I think Apple will be in excellent shape if between the iPod and the mini the have around 50% of the the sakes. The 31% Steve quoted is of sales between Oct.-Nov. It does not mean that 31% of people with portable digital music players have iPods.

Has anyone seen numbers on that?

sosumi99
Jan 7, 2004, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by frankly

Their other apps aren't cheap either. There are plenty of reasons for the Microsoft monopoly (mainly illegal activity) that have nothing to do with the price they charge for their software.

Later, Frank

Let's be realistic here. Did Microsoft ever point a gun at people to upgrade and buy their apps? No? Hah, didn't think so. The market chose.

Why did they choose MS? Because back then, before they had their monopoly, they were competing on price and features. People may be forgetting this now, but back when Word 5 for the Mac came out, we Mac users loved MS. We praised it to the heavens. MS could do no wrong. How things change...

MS got to where they are by marketing themselves well and coming up with a really good product -- before they began their long, arrogant decline. I wish Apple would emulate the young Microsoft more, the MS that developed a great word processor and pricing it right.

Stella
Jan 7, 2004, 08:05 PM
Well, no sh?t.

Rip off Britain.

Expensive accommodation, poor service, poor government, high cost of DVDs and Cd.

And the British public still buy the rip off prices.

Sweat shop wages.

They get what they deserve.

Originally posted by voodoofish
Um no, if you add VAT to the US price (US prices don't include sales tax, which varies from about 6-8% state-to-state) it's $293, not $364. Even including the sales tax difference, the iPod mini is more expensive in the UK than the 15GB iPod in the states. I don't see what the NHS has to do with that (and note the US spends as more money as a % of GDP on state health care as we do (in 1997 6.5 vs our 5.8) ~and~ their GDP is higher than ours; I know where I'd rather live). I qualify for student discount and yet iLife costs more with a student discount in the UK than the full price in the US. I'm just gonna buy them both on a trip over there; the price difference is ludacris.

frankly
Jan 7, 2004, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by sosumi99
Let's be realistic here. Did Microsoft ever point a gun at people to upgrade and buy their apps? No? Hah, didn't think so. The market chose.

Why did they choose MS? Because back then, before they had their monopoly, they were competing on price and features. People may be forgetting this now, but back when Word 5 for the Mac came out, we Mac users loved MS. We praised it to the heavens. MS could do no wrong. How things change...

MS got to where they are by marketing themselves well and coming up with a really good product -- before they began their long, arrogant decline. I wish Apple would emulate the young Microsoft more, the MS that developed a great word processor and pricing it right.

I think it is you that needs to be realistic. Did you miss all of the testimony in the U.S. vs. Microsoft antitrust trial??? They used numerous illegal tactics to gain monopoly status which is why they were found guilty.

Some examples include:

Forcing PC manufacturers to pay the license fee for Windows on every PC sold, even if it didn't have Windows installed.

Forcing PC manufacturers to NOT install Netscape or AOL software if they wanted to install Windows.

All of this is documented and the case is over. They were breaking the law in order to create a monopoly.

Later, Frank

ethernet76
Jan 7, 2004, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by pjkelnhofer
But why assume there will always be only one size of mini. Apple like to have a couple of choice for each product (3 PowerMacs, 3 PowerBooks, 3 iMacs, 2 iBooks, 2e Macs, 3 iPods, etc.) In fact, the iPod mini really doesn't fit into the way Apple usually sells products. Maybe, right now 4Gb drives are the only option from Hitachi (or 2Gb drives are so close in cost there is no reason to use them).

I don't think they will drop the price for no reason. I think when 8Gb drives are availible from Hitachi they will drop the price on the 4 Gb ($199 or $219) and have the 8Gb takes it's price point.

I would be suprised to see a smaller (1 or 2Gb) mini appear unless it is already designed and ready but is so far away from shipping they didn't want to announce it at MWSF (admittedly the Keynote would have been more powerful with 8x the music, 50% the size, and the same price as the RioPlayer).

More likely, Apple is already working on bigger minis (kind of an oxymoron). When Hitachi figures out how to make higher capacity cheaper drives, the mini will benefit.

Personally I belive the mini is stupid. 50 dollars more and i get over 3 times the storage? It's a joke. But I can get it in 5 different colors, that's important when it goes in my pocket. Or, i can attach it to my belt. That's not tacky. It can go right next to my cool cellphone that's on my belt.

I'd like to see cheaper, smaller capacity simply for the fact 250 isn't cheap enough. Ideally for the mini to be a success and actually have a decent market share it needs to target the 149-189 market. The only people who will buy minis are those that don't know any better, and those who can almost afford an iPod but not. Which is a very small market.

Who wants to start a poll on how long the flop takes?

ethernet76
Jan 7, 2004, 09:18 PM
MS had to be good at something at one point.

It wasn't like when MS was started they started forcing large companies to do things, they didn't have the power then. They rose by marketing, and competing, the monoply crap only came after that.

You can't be an instant monopoly. You have to do something right first.

bokdol
Jan 7, 2004, 09:25 PM
i know everybody is complaining about the price of the mini's, but the mini's are really not for us (as in the ones that think for an extra 50 bucks more we coule get the 15)
the mini's are for all the younger school kids that dont need the large amount of space. where 1000 songs are perfect for students to take around.
how i came to this i dea was that i work in a high school. and unlike the people of these forums. the kids did not care about the fact that it held only 4 gigs. but at a 1000 songs it's more then enough for them. and the parents are more willing to send the money then lets say 300 dollars. also the pink one was a big favorite to highschool girls.

just think how many teenage girls saw titanic 4 to 5 times. its' the same market that well buy these mini's



just a thought....

El Tritoma
Jan 7, 2004, 09:47 PM
I just read this on the NY Times website. More anecdotal evidence about the popularity of the iPod.
"At the big DataVision Computer Video store in Midtown Manhattan, personal digital audio players were one of the holiday season's best sellers, said John A. Griffin, the store's sales manager, and iPods were clearly the players of choice.

"For every one of the other players we sold people bought 70 to 80 iPods," Mr. Griffin said one day recently as shoppers ogled a store display of more than 50 different models of players ranging in size from cigarette lighters to small jewelry boxes."

70 - 80 to 1 ratio!!

miradu
Jan 7, 2004, 11:09 PM
I think people are forgetting something. Steve Jobs never said that he didn't want to compete in the $99 market, he said that the current devices under $99 are worthless because they only hold 15 songs. Now, Apple currently has products to address 2/3rd's of the mp3 player market - the iPod Little would address that last third. It would be "cool", but because of a $99-$149 price it wouldn't be that cool, when compared to the anodized aluminum or stainless steel of the bigger ipdos. Don't belive me? check out apple.com/itunes . Look at the left hand side where they list ipods. see the title "Little" missing a picture, and instead having the words "he next big thing"?

Something didn't get announced at macworld, because it is going to generate enough press on it's own. How about 1/26/04 as a relase date? That's the modified date in the ipodified 1984 commercial. Look closely at the left hand side of big brother's screen near the end when they do the close up.. They changed the date from 1/24/84 to 1/26/04.. A weird, pointless change if you ask me ;)

Last of all, if we have a VERY accurate rumor correctly predicting a 4 GB iPod, shouldn't the other half be true?

(note, I do NOT know any inside info, this is based on the two sources listed above and my own imagination)

Powerbook G5
Jan 7, 2004, 11:15 PM
"Little." Seems to start the statement "The next big thing." and not be a place holder for another iPod. Apple generally follows that pattern of making short, provocative phrases with lots of periods to get their point across and they are just stating that "little" is the "next big thing".

frankly
Jan 8, 2004, 12:16 AM
Originally posted by miradu
Don't belive me? check out apple.com/itunes . Look at the left hand side where they list ipods. see the title "Little" missing a picture, and instead having the words "he next big thing"?

Something didn't get announced at macworld, because it is going to generate enough press on it's own. How about 1/26/04 as a relase date? That's the modified date in the ipodified 1984 commercial. Look closely at the left hand side of big brother's screen near the end when they do the close up.. They changed the date from 1/24/84 to 1/26/04.. A weird, pointless change if you ask me ;)


Powerbook G5 is exactly right in his analysis of the "Little. The next big thing." That is the catch phrase for the new iPod mini.

However, very interesting about the video. I have to give you big time props for noticing that. I was currently very sure that we would here an announcement from Apple at the end of this month concerning the release of updated G5s. Now, the rumor mills are starting to say the same thing along with the update of "another product in the Mac line"

That sounds pretty vague. I wonder if they aren't going to do something pretty special for the 20th anniversary which is that weekend. Hhhmmm

Perhaps we should all clear our calendars for 01/26/04 at 9:14 pacific time?

Later, Frank

elo
Jan 8, 2004, 12:27 AM
Originally posted by MongoTheGeek

[apocryphal history lesson]
The president of sony decided on the size of the CD so that it would be big enough to hold all of Beethoven's 9th Symphony which runs a bit over 70 minutes, The size of a CD.
[/apocryphal history lesson]


That's not only true, but it was done with history in mind. The original size of the LP was chosen to allow Beethoven's 5th Symphony to fit (two movements on each side). Sony decided to honor this precedent when designing the CD.

elo

Powerbook G5
Jan 8, 2004, 12:30 AM
That's awesome, I am a personal fan of classical music and this little historical tidbit is just really cool to know.

sushi
Jan 8, 2004, 01:05 AM
Just received a Hammacher Schlemmer catalog.

And what do they have on the first page, but a picture of a flash player like the one that I have.

Here is the product listing:

http://www.hammacher.com/publish/70549.asp?promo=el_audio

Price:

$199.95 for 128MB

$249.95 for 256MB

Granted HS is not cheap.

In my case, I paid about $350 for the 256MB model when it first came out.

So, it looks like the iPod mini will be a vialble option for those who want a smal player with large capacity.

Sushi

AlbinoPigeon
Jan 8, 2004, 01:51 AM
Originally posted by voodoofish
Um no, if you add VAT to the US price (US prices don't include sales tax, which varies from about 6-8% state-to-state) it's $293, not $364. Even including the sales tax difference, the iPod mini is more expensive in the UK than the 15GB iPod in the states. I don't see what the NHS has to do with that (and note the US spends as more money as a % of GDP on state health care as we do (in 1997 6.5 vs our 5.8) ~and~ their GDP is higher than ours; I know where I'd rather live). I qualify for student discount and yet iLife costs more with a student discount in the UK than the full price in the US. I'm just gonna buy them both on a trip over there; the price difference is ludacris.

Is this really the place for this discussion? C'mon people. You have a heart attack - where would you rather be if you aren't rich (or one of the bunch with insurance). The answer: UK and Canada. But drop all this already. If you really want to compare social systems think 'drug policy' and take this topic somewhere else.

pjkelnhofer
Jan 8, 2004, 02:16 AM
Originally posted by miradu

Something didn't get announced at macworld, because it is going to generate enough press on it's own. How about 1/26/04 as a relase date? That's the modified date in the ipodified 1984 commercial. Look closely at the left hand side of big brother's screen near the end when they do the close up.. They changed the date from 1/24/84 to 1/26/04.. A weird, pointless change if you ask me ;)

Last of all, if we have a VERY accurate rumor correctly predicting a 4 GB iPod, shouldn't the other half be true?

(note, I do NOT know any inside info, this is based on the two sources listed above and my own imagination)

I would believe the date change was more significant if it either was Tuesday (the day when Apple tends to make products announcements) or if it were the day after the Superbowl (if it said 2/2/04 I would really be in a tizzy right now). That said, it doesn't make much sense to change the date on the screen when the date on the graphic (and the voice over for that matter) still are Jan. 24th.

I do plan to watch the SuperBowl on Feb 1st, however, because I have convinced myself that Apple is going to release a 20th anniversary Mac by re-using that ad somehow. After all, why announce something in front of a conference center full of MacGeeks and computer insiders when you can intro it during what is historically the single most watched event of the year.

ps. Is this how rumors get started?

Belly-laughs
Jan 8, 2004, 02:43 AM
Originally posted by bokdol
i know everybody is complaining about the price of the mini's, but the mini's are really not for us (as in the ones that think for an extra 50 bucks more we coule get the 15)
the mini's are for all the younger school kids that dont need the large amount of space. where 1000 songs are perfect for students to take around.
how i came to this i dea was that i work in a high school. and unlike the people of these forums. the kids did not care about the fact that it held only 4 gigs. but at a 1000 songs it's more then enough for them. and the parents are more willing to send the money then lets say 300 dollars. also the pink one was a big favorite to highschool girls.

just think how many teenage girls saw titanic 4 to 5 times. its' the same market that well buy these mini's



just a thought....

I didnt see Titanic, and most probably never will. Im not even a teenage school girl. But still, Id love a green mini.

Must mean Im feminine and blessed with a young heart :)

voodoofish
Jan 8, 2004, 03:02 AM
MSNBC has an article on whether price is too expensive - http://www.msnbc.msn.com/Default.aspx?id=3900437&p1=0 The most interesting bit is SJs reply to this suggestion, saying perhaps the biggest user of it will be iPod owners buying a second smaller one for taking to the gym etc.

WestCoast
Jan 8, 2004, 03:17 AM
Just wondering, would anyone of our friends in the USA be willing to purchase an iPod mini on my behalf, and send it over here (UK)? I suspect I may get a great saving! If so, let me know ...

louden
Jan 8, 2004, 05:23 AM
I'd like a first hand experience review.

I think at 250, they should include the dock and armband. I'd want those accessories, and they'd both add to the already existing high price.

I think Apple missed the ball here a bit. I think 200 would have been a good price (impulse buy for second iPods for exisiting owners), but 250 is too much. I'll bet they drop the price within 6 months under the guise of some upgrade.

Count Blah
Jan 8, 2004, 10:02 AM
Originally posted by sonofslim
i've heard the CD thing too, although its veracity is uncertain (http://www.snopes.com/music/media/cdlength.htm). as for the iPod mini, seems more likely that 1,000 songs is a nice round number with just enough zeroes to impart a sense of value and technolust that fits with Apple's branding strategy.

But my Nieces and Nephews don't give a rats a$$ about a sense of value nor technolust. They only care about what they can get the parents to buy/get as a gift. At $249, they are not getting an iPod mini - At $199 they might have gotten one. Oh well, looks like Apple just wants it's 95% of the $250+ market share to go to 97% instead of going after the middle third of that keynote piechart.

hayesk
Jan 8, 2004, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by tace
I actually did go to business school and got to find out that Apple has very "healthy" profit margins. Yes, they do spend money in R&D and they do invent but you'd be surprised at how much thicker their margins are even compared to Dell. My point is that I have a problem with them overpricing things to make them be more of a class thing. I say, cheaper iPod minis for ALL.

Then why aren't Apple making billions of dollars in profits? Where's the money going? If Apple was overpricing things, then surely they'd be laughing all the way to the bank. We've seen their financial statements - they're healther but there quarterly profits aren't that big.

Powerbook G5
Jan 8, 2004, 11:48 AM
That's because most pissed off people who complain about Apple's "high profit markup" aren't considering the cost of R&D, cost of manufacturing, cost of design, cost of employee salaries, cost of leasing space in factories, cost of marketing, cost of doing business, etc. They just think these things magically appear on the shelves and Apple gets 60-90% of the cost for everything sold.

Count Blah
Jan 8, 2004, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by Powerbook G5
That's because most pissed off people who complain about Apple's "high profit markup" aren't considering the cost of R&D, cost of manufacturing, cost of design, cost of employee salaries, cost of leasing space in factories, cost of marketing, cost of doing business, etc. They just think these things magically appear on the shelves and Apple gets 60-90% of the cost for everything sold.

And people believe it's better to sell 100 units at 20% profit margin then 10 units at 30%. I think that most people here want Apple to succeed. We personally think that it would have benifited Apple to release something in the under $200 market($199 counts). A $199 - 1.5/2 Gig model would have opened up the Apple brand to that middle third of that Keynote piechart. Instead, Jobs priced Apple out of all those people who have $199 hard caps on MP3 players.