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Durandal7
Jan 7, 2004, 10:47 PM
Clark closes in on Dean's lead as many consider switching votes
By Andrea Stone, USA TODAY

Retired general Wesley Clark's military credentials and disciplined manner are attracting some Democrats who had been leaning toward Howard Dean for their party's presidential nomination.

Clark's unexpected surge in this week's USA TODAY/CNN/Gallup Poll, twinned with Dean's constant battering from rivals, has put them just 4 percentage points apart, within the poll's margin of error. Clark also moved into second place Wednesday in a New Hampshire poll. As a result, several candidates expanded their attacks Wednesday to include the former NATO commander.

"I was somewhat impressed with Dean, but I think progressively I have changed my mind because he seems to be so angry. I'm much more impressed with Clark, his demeanor," said Sharon Nollette, 57, an engineer from Spokane who plans to vote for Clark in Washington's Feb. 7 primary. "Unlike Dean, he comes across in a manner that is respectful."

Ken White, 64, of Hampton, N.H., was a Dean supporter but is leaning toward Clark in his state's pivotal Jan. 27 primary. "I still like (Dean), but I don't think he can beat (President) Bush," said the retired market research executive.

Dean, the former Vermont governor, still leads among Democrats polled nationally with 24%. But Clark is close behind at 20%. That's a change from three weeks earlier, when Dean had 31% to Clark's 10%.

Most polls in Iowa and New Hampshire, where the first contests will be held this month, still put Dean ahead of his rivals. Rep. Richard Gephardt of Missouri is trying to overtake Dean in the Iowa caucuses, which Clark chose to skip. In New Hampshire, Clark is vying with Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts for second place.

Stuart Rothenberg, editor of the non-partisan Rothenberg Political Report, said the shifting numbers reflect voters' tendencies to change the standard by which they evaluate candidates as the first contests near. Dean got an early bump from anti-war Democrats, he said. But "now the rest of the party is having their say" by comparing Dean's credentials to Clark's.

University of Virginia political scientist Larry Sabato is skeptical about Clark's growing strength nationally. But he attributed Dean's decline to the attacks leveled against him. "He has tried to remain above the fray," Sabato said. "That may be a strategic mistake. An attack unanswered is an attack agreed to, and they've been hammering him hard."

An American Research Group survey in New Hampshire confirms Clark's gains. The survey found that although men ages 45 and older like the general best, a new TV ad running there is playing well among women, who have been less inclined to support Clark.

Ann Poteet, 33, a Portland, Ore., librarian expecting her second child, said she is leaning toward Dean, but Clark remains an option. "I would change my mind if I thought Dean didn't have as much support as he has now," she said. "I want to support somebody who has a good chance" to win.

It should be an interesting primary, it may have an unexpected outcome.



Sayhey
Jan 8, 2004, 01:02 AM
The major problem for Dean in New Hampshire is that the expectations are so high. He has to now blow away the rest of the field or there will be pundits crying over "what happened to the Dean campaign?" In Iowa it is not quite as bad but a close race with Gephardt will start whispers of Dean's vulnerability. I'm certainly considering voting for Dean, but it will be interesting to see how he handles the minefields of the next few weeks.

For Clark it is very different. Anything in Iowa will be a surprise and in New Hampshire a second place or a strong third will be a victory. His test will come in South Carolina and Arizona. Clark will have to win at least one of those states.

edit: I just read where Madonna has endorsed Clark. The heck with Gore and Bradley! :p Seriously, I'm surprised she endorsed anyone in the primaries.

kuyu
Jan 14, 2004, 06:19 PM
I think Clark has a legitimate chance of beating Bush, but for now Dean is too liberal for most. However, history has proven that candidates always move closer to the center during the real election, so we'll see what happens pretty soon.

In an election, it's bell curve, bell curve, bell curve. Moderate's generally do better as presidents anyway because they annoy fewer people. Take Clinton for instance, his policies and actions were very moderate, and he enjoyed rather high success.

Clinton did the liberals some favors and the conservatives some favors, and few can say much about his presidency... his personal life on the other hand!!!!;)

mactastic
Jan 14, 2004, 06:22 PM
Originally posted by Durandal7
It should be an interesting primary, it may have an unexpected outcome.

New Hampshire primary with an unexpected outcome? Nah!!! Never happen.

Lol, it wouldn't be NH without the unexpected.

Dont Hurt Me
Jan 14, 2004, 06:36 PM
Im starting to like Dean more and more, i do agree with his healthplan for America. Clark was a general in the military establishment and though he has the credentials Dean has ran a state for a while just as George did. Clark on the otherhand is use to giving orders rather then listening. we do hear how Dean is constantly a liberal but i dont see it. He was a fiscal conservative and i like that compared to George whom i voted for is a spending Liberal no matter how you look at it. talk about jumping the fence. i guess im a social liberal and fiscal conservative. lets focus on Iowa.

IJ Reilly
Jan 14, 2004, 07:53 PM
Originally posted by Sayhey
edit: I just read where Madonna has endorsed Clark. The heck with Gore and Bradley! :p Seriously, I'm surprised she endorsed anyone in the primaries.
Seriously, I'm surprised anyone cares who Madonna endorses.

IJ Reilly
Jan 14, 2004, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by kuyu
I think Clark has a legitimate chance of beating Bush, but for now Dean is too liberal for most.

I'm sure Dean will be easier for the Bush campaign to portray as "too liberal," even though his record and his positions don't seem to support that label.

Sayhey
Jan 14, 2004, 08:06 PM
Originally posted by IJ Reilly
Seriously, I'm surprised anyone cares who Madonna endorses.

IJ, it was a joke! I don't care who she endorses. I'm surprised mainly because Clark doesn't seem like the "Material Girl" kind of candidate.

In Iowa, I hear that it is getting closer in the polls with Dean losing ground and Kerry and Edwards gaining ground. Gephardt is still within striking distance of Dean for first. This may play to Gephardt because Iowa, as a caucus state, is more dependent than other states for on the ground old fashioned organization that the trade union movement specializes in.

IJ Reilly
Jan 14, 2004, 09:20 PM
Originally posted by Sayhey
IJ, it was a joke! I don't care who she endorses. I'm surprised mainly because Clark doesn't seem like the "Material Girl" kind of candidate.

Then that makes two. Right, I'd never have suspected that Madonna had a thing for men in uniform. Well, ok, maybe entire regiments...

IJ Reilly
Jan 15, 2004, 10:35 AM
Interesting portrait of Clark here (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-clarkprofile15jan15,1,346452.story)

Sayhey
Jan 15, 2004, 04:26 PM
Ok, IJ don't read this - it's about another celebrity endorsement of Clark. ;)

I'll Be Voting For Wesley Clark/Good-Bye Mr. Bush
--by Michael Moore




January 14, 2004

Many of you have written to me in the past months asking, "Who are you going to vote for this year?"

I have decided to cast my vote in the primary for Wesley Clark. That's right, a peacenik is voting for a general. What a country!

I believe that Wesley Clark will end this war. He will make the rich pay their fair share of taxes. He will stand up for the rights of women, African Americans, and the working people of this country.

And he will cream George W. Bush.

full text (http://www.clark04.com/moore/)

Oh, and IJ, I liked the post about Clark. The more I find out the reasons Cohen, Shelton and other folks in the Pentagon didn't like Clark, the more I like him.

Sayhey
Jan 19, 2004, 01:51 PM
I found this endorsement fascinating!

I also believe there is nothing more patriotic than speaking out - and standing up for what you believe in. That was one of the reasons I ran for president in 1972 - because I believed that Vietnam was a not a war America should be fighting. Back then, Wes Clark was an officer in the United States Army. And in the election of '72, he voted for the other candidate. Let's call it youthful indiscretion. The good news is that this time we both agree.

Today, we are fighting the wrong war in Iraq. And that's one of the reasons I'm standing here today. Because there is only one man in this race with four stars on his shoulders and thirty-four years of military experience. There is only one man in this race who stopped genocide and saved 1.5 million Kosovar Albanians from ethnic cleansing. There is only one man in this race who has a success strategy to get us out of the war in Iraq - and get our servicemen and women home safely. And that man is Wes Clark. full text (http://www.clark04.com/press/release/193/)

I don't think McGovern will sway many people, but the fact he would choose Clark and not Dean is very interesting.

IJ Reilly
Jan 19, 2004, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by Sayhey
I don't think McGovern will sway many people, but the fact he would choose Clark and not Dean is very interesting.

If only because the RNC strategy is to paint Dean as the second coming of George McGovern. We could do much worse of course -- say what you will about McGovern, but it's tough to argue today that he was wrong about the Vietnam War and Nixon was right, or that Nixon had the character and integrity to be President and McGovern didn't.