Apple Now Worth More Than Google

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Digital Daily notes (http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/20080813/boom-apple-worth-more-than-google/) that Apple's market capitalization at $159.37 billion is now worth more than Google's which is at $157.56 billion. Apple's market cap first exceeded $100 billion (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/05/30/apple-worth-more-than-100-billion/) in May of 2007. Apple was included into the S&P 100 index at that time. For interest, MacDailyNews compiled (http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/18159/) a list of the market values of other notable companies:

- Microsoft (MSFT) - $255,648,204,000
- IBM (IBM) - $169,964,678,000
- Apple (AAPL) - $157,012,662,240
- Google (GOOG) - $156,392,862,560
- Cisco (CSCO) - $142,125,692,160
- Intel (INTC) - $135,658,860,000
- Hewlett-Packard (HPQ) - $111,866,423,760
- Nokia (NOK) - $97,746,699,520
- Research In Motion (RIMM) - $71,143,935,000
- Disney (DIS) - $59,257,501,500
- Dell (DELL) - $50,483,256,060

The practical significance of this ranking of market cap is little, but does always revive (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/28/dell-reconsidering-direct-model-dell-retail/) a famous comment by Michael Dell in 1997 when asked about what he would do to fix the then money-losing Apple:"What would I do? I'd shut [Apple] down and give the money back to the shareholders," Michael Dell said before a crowd of several thousand IT executives.



Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/08/13/apple-now-worth-more-than-google/)

[MadDog31]

Job well done, Apple!

[SnowLeopard2008]

3 Apple = 1 Dell...

Now I would shut down Dell and give its money back to the shareholders.

[marklemac]

I'm sure glad I bought my Apple shares when they hit rock bottom $14 many many years ago :)

[Silver-Fox]

almost what i earn in a year :P

[B1gMac]

You mean 3 Dell= 1 Apple...

[Spock]

I bet Mr. Dell feels pretty stupid when he sees those numbers.

[plumbingandtech]

Wow. If apple sells 40 million iphones next year we could see it take over Microsoft and become the biggest tech firm of all time.

[emulator]

3 Apple = 1 Dell...

Now I would shut down Dell and give its money back to the shareholders.
why? dell isn't profitable?

[iTeen]

That's pretty dang cool.

[iSpeakApple]

W00t Go apple woot woot! :apple: :apple: :apple: :apple: :apple: :apple: :apple: :apple: :apple:

[Matthew Yohe]

Does anyone know what method Google uses to calculate P/E? (Trailing, Future)

Currently AAPL is at 35.06 and GOOG at 32.86.

[KindredMAC]

I always love when Arn pulls out the Dell quote.

Never EVER look down on your competition, no matter how low you think they are at the time.

[w00master]

I always love when Arn pulls out the Dell quote.

Never EVER look down on your competition, no matter how low you think they are at the time.

Hmmm, maybe Apple themselves should take what you're saying to heart then? ;)

[Kingsly]

New theory: Michael Dell started the Apple fire upon seeing those numbers. ;)

[Unspeaked]

Does anyone know what method Google uses to calculate P/E? (Trailing, Future)

Currently AAPL is at 35.06 and GOOG at 32.86.

Trailing.

[bommai]

Wow. If apple sells 40 million iphones next year we could see it take over Microsoft and become the biggest tech firm of all time.

When you say all time, it is misleading. At one point in time, MSFT was worth almost $600 Billion. Apple has a long way to reach that.

[plumbingandtech]

When you say all time, it is misleading. At one point in time, MSFT was worth almost $600 Billion. Apple has a long way to reach that.

Good point. thank you.

[nick9191]

Wow. If apple sells 40 million iphones next year we could see it take over Microsoft and become the biggest tech firm of all time.

Doesn't really work like that.

AAPL 179.30
MSFT 27.91
GOOG 500.03

[Unspeaked]

Here's a notable one that was left off the list:

- AT&T (T) - $184,357,000,000

[plumbingandtech]

Doesn't really work like that.

AAPL 179.30
MSFT 27.91
GOOG 500.03

Isn't market cap the final calculation?

I mean the fluctuations you mention in the stocks above ultimately reflect the market cap no?

Edit: I see the confusion. I meant that if apple where to have an even better year (like selling 40 million iphones) then the last one, then price of their stock could attain a high enough number from investors( and by proxy raising of the stock price),that the market cap would be greater then microsoft.

[Unspeaked]

Isn't market cap the final calculation?

I mean the fluctuations you mention in the stocks above ultimately reflect the market cap?

Yes, I don't really get what nick9191 was trying to say. Stock price is meaningless. Market cap means everything.

(At least in the context of this discussion.)

[ArtOfWarfare]

How much money did Apple have at the time the Dell CEO made that statement?

Just wondering how much longer before he should take his own advice and shut Dell down.

... it'll probably still be another few years.

and after seeing how much money M$ has... I'm refiguring my estimate that M$ could callapse in 5 years to more like 15... but who cares about my estimates? I base my guesses off of almost nothing... and I have no experience. My opinion is useless and baseless (hopefully interesting at least, probably not though.)

[WildCowboy]

Doesn't really work like that.

AAPL 179.30
MSFT 27.91
GOOG 500.03

Stock price by itself is irrelevant in determining the "worth" of a company. You have to multiply the individual share price by the number of shares available, which is what market cap is.

[hob]

Here's a notable one that was left off the list:

- AT&T (T) - $184,357,000,000

:eek: you're kidding

[dejo]

I wonder where Apple stood back in December when their shares were worth around $195 a piece.

[IJ Reilly]

Does anyone know what method Google uses to calculate P/E? (Trailing, Future)

You can find both trailing and forward P/E for all stocks. They aren't calculated by the companies.

AAPL: 35/29
GOOG: 32/20

Isn't market cap the final calculation?

I mean the fluctuations you mention in the stocks above ultimately reflect the market cap no?

Market cap is the market value of all shares (number of shares x price).

[abijnk]

why? dell isn't profitable?

No no no... He was referring to the quote from Dell in the article.

[ProwlingTiger]

Apple better watch out: Dell is gaining FAST!


...NOT. :D

[IJ Reilly]

I wonder where Apple stood back in December when their shares were worth around $195 a piece.

Easy enough to figure, with 886 million shares @ $195, about $173 billion.

[Unspeaked]

How much money did Apple have at the time the Dell CEO made that statement?

Apple was worth $2.2 billion when Michael Dell uttered that quote (it's now worth 71 times that!). The state of Apple then and state of Dell on August 13, 2008 is so far apart, it's mind-boggling.


:eek: you're kidding

Amazing, isn't it?

Imagine if it hadn't been broken up those many years ago...

[revenuee]

Last I saw -- 16% market share was within site -- before you flame ... I'll try to confirm --- it might of been a mix up in my research (it was very late)

EDIT: --- my mistake -- I read it wrong --- late night --- it was that Apple's market share had increased 16% -- best

[tgildred]

I'm sure glad I bought my Apple shares when they hit rock bottom $14 many many years ago :)

oohhhh, I hate you.

;)

[Badandy]

Exxon Mobile (XOM): 406 BILLION

[lhotka]

oohhhh, I hate you.

;)

I bought mine at $33 in 1984, two splits ago (net adjusted price is $8.25).

At least Apple, unlike google, actually produces a product, does R&D, and contributes something rather than just sucking up other peoples work and selling advertising.

There's a single product that could kill the entire Google business model: AdBlock. If it ever gets widespread adoption, watch that stock crash.

[IJ Reilly]

Apple was worth $2.2 billion when Michael Dell uttered that quote (it's now worth 71 times that!). The state of Apple then and state of Dell on August 13, 2008 is so far apart, it's mind-boggling.

But the question was, "how much money did Apple have then?" not AAPL's market cap. The answer is about $1.2 billion in cash. Yes, at the time more than 50% of AAPL's share value was represented by cash. The market was at that time valuing everything else Apple owned and their entire business at about $1 billion. That was a mind-boggling concept, which is why I bought AAPL in 1997.

Split-adjusted basis around $5.00 a share, since we seem to be showing off. :)

[maokh]

*yawn*

some less than stellar earnings or sales numbers slowing will deflate that market cap. I've seen companies with cash on hand with no debt with market caps smaller than their bank balance.

market cap can tell you some things, but it is almost quite meaningless. Its whatever people collectively value the company at a given time.

It has very little to do with gross margins or profit, which are probably more important.

[johnnyjibbs]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_0_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5B108 Safari/525.20)

This will shut up all the naysayers. I don't think we'll see many CEOs making stupid comments in the future.

[revenuee]

*yawn*

some less than stellar earnings or sales numbers slowing will deflate that market cap. I've seen companies with cash on hand with no debt with market caps smaller than their bank balance.

market cap can tell you some things, but it is almost quite meaningless. Its whatever people collectively value the company at a given time.

It has very little to do with gross margins or profit, which are probably more important.

well ... from a valuation stand point -- YES --- the earnings are what determine if a company will stay at it's level.

BUT efficient market hypothesis suggests that price (which is a reflection of market cap) reflects that true value -- since value is a matter of perception and agreement by buyer and seller :)

[sam10685]

New theory: Michael Dell started the Apple fire upon seeing those numbers. ;)

Wouldn't surprise me.

[cameronjpu]

I wonder where Apple stood back in December when their shares were worth around $195 a piece.

Not very tough to figure out.

[DoFoT9]

this is one small step for macs...... (i cant finish the rest its too early)

go apple yew

[dejo]

Easy enough to figure, with 886 million shares @ $195, about $173 billion.

Not very tough to figure out.
I was thinking more in terms of its market cap ranking versus these other companies. Maybe I'll go crunch some numbers...

[Dmac77]

3 Apple = 1 Dell...

Now I would shut down Dell and give its money back to the shareholders.

What about the poor saps that buy their "computers"?:D

[2Shae]

That is freakin' amazing.

Just think...
You start a business and roughly 25 years later it's worth $157 BILLION!!!!
That's gotta give a satisfying feeling :rolleyes:

[IJ Reilly]

Its whatever people collectively value the company at a given time.

It is what it is. Investors don't bid up the value of stocks over time without the company showing earnings growth to support it.

I was thinking more in terms of its market cap ranking versus these other companies. Maybe I'll go crunch some numbers...

Ah. I am dimly recalling that AAPL passed IBM in that timeframe.

[acvball92]

congrats apple

and mr. dell must feel like crap right now...:D

[alberta-mac-fan]

But the question was, "how much money did Apple have then?" not AAPL's market cap. The answer is about $1.2 billion in cash. Yes, at the time more than 50% of AAPL's share value was represented by cash. The market was at that time valuing everything else Apple owned and their entire business at about $1 billion. That was a mind-boggling concept, which is why I bought AAPL in 1997.

Split-adjusted basis around $5.00 a share, since we seem to be showing off. :)

Sick I tell you... Sick.

[IJ Reilly]

Sick I tell you... Sick.

Who, me or you? :confused:

[Mykbibby]

I love the quote of Michael Dell... I know he wishes he didn't say that!

While this is great... Won't it really be a great news story in 3 years or so when Apple is worth more than Microsoft? :D

[cameronjpu]

congrats apple

and mr. dell must feel like crap right now...:D

Yeah I bet it sucks to have as many billions in the bank as he does....

[itcheroni]

I bought mine at $33 in 1984, two splits ago (net adjusted price is $8.25).

At least Apple, unlike google, actually produces a product, does R&D, and contributes something rather than just sucking up other peoples work and selling advertising.

There's a single product that could kill the entire Google business model: AdBlock. If it ever gets widespread adoption, watch that stock crash.

A service is a product. Just because you can't hold something in your hand doesn't mean people didn't work hard on it. If it was that easy, you should let Jerry Yang know.

[stevearm]

I always love when Arn pulls out the Dell quote.

Never EVER look down on your competition, no matter how low you think they are at the time.

Tell that to Apple and Apple fanboys re: Microsoft.

Except in that case, it's hardly looking 'down' at MS, but looking 'up' at it.

[PlaceofDis]

amazing what apple has become since jobs took back over.

[IJ Reilly]

A service is a product. Just because you can't hold something in your hand doesn't mean people didn't work hard on it. If it was that easy, you should let Jerry Yang know.

I don't think that was the point of the comment on Google. Even if it was, I would add that I believe Google is surfing a wave right now, but that I'm not convinced that they really know where they're going.

[revenuee]

I don't think that was the point of the comment on Google. Even if it was, I would add that I believe Google is surfing a wave right now, but that I'm not convinced that they really know where they're going.

I think the entire iGoogle system shows that Google has pretty good idea of where it is going.

the iGoogle system is taking advantage of faster processing speeds and faster internet connection to develop a world wide main frame.

Take Google docs -- sure, in their infancy they probably don't pose a real threat to Office software, but give it development time. What other software solutions can we see?

integrated google mail and calender.

is online photo editing software that far away? how about video editing?

google is building a foundation for powerful next generation internet devices.

speculation? off course it is ...but am really off my mark?

[Kwill]

Dems a'lot'a zeros for a computer company with an installed customer base that is less than 10 percent of Microsoft. :eek:

[bug67]

- Microsoft (MSFT) - $255,648,204,000
- IBM (IBM) - $169,964,678,000
- Apple (AAPL) - $157,012,662,240
- Google (GOOG) - $156,392,862,560
- Cisco (CSCO) - $142,125,692,160
- Intel (INTC) - $135,658,860,000
- Hewlett-Packard (HPQ) - $111,866,423,760
- Nokia (NOK) - $97,746,699,520
- Research In Motion (RIMM) - $71,143,935,000
- Disney (DIS) - $59,257,501,500
- Dell (DELL) - $50,483,256,060

Those big numbers like that make my head hurt.:eek::eek::eek:

[dejo]

Today:

- Microsoft (MSFT) - $255,648,204,000
- IBM (IBM) - $169,964,678,000
- Apple (AAPL) - $157,012,662,240
- Google (GOOG) - $156,392,862,560
- Cisco (CSCO) - $142,125,692,160
- Intel (INTC) - $135,658,860,000
- Hewlett-Packard (HPQ) - $111,866,423,760
- Nokia (NOK) - $97,746,699,520
- Research In Motion (RIMM) - $71,143,935,000
- Disney (DIS) - $59,257,501,500
- Dell (DELL) - $50,483,256,060

Dec 28, 2007 (when AAPL closed at record 199.83):
- Microsoft (MSFT) - $329,775,600,000
- Google (GOOG) - $220,910,558,500
- Apple (AAPL) - $177,025,400,400
- Cisco (CSCO) - $162,879,600,000
- Intel (INTC) - $150,391,200,000
- IBM (IBM) - $148,621,500,000
- Nokia (NOK) - $147,212,000,000
- Hewlett-Packard (HPQ) - $126,859,200,000
- Research In Motion (RIMM) - $66,012,630,000
- Disney (DIS) - $60,949,600,000
- Dell (DELL) - $50,399,000,000

[wmw71190]

I'm sure Mr. Dell made a large deposit out of his oversized bank account. He is going to need that money to pay his employees to not make fun of him :)

[IJ Reilly]

speculation? off course it is ...but am really off my mark?

All I can say is I'm not convinced. I describe Google as a company with ADD. I see them heading off in all directions at once without really perfecting anything. Gmail is still in beta -- how many years later? Google Earth is a nightmare and hasn't been updated for some time. Maps still lacks some obvious features. I don't know anyone who uses their online applications. They do one thing really well, which has given them lots of money to pursue a wide variety of projects -- but where's the focus? Where's the desire to get something right before they take up the next thing?

[kjs862]

Its kind of funny seeing IBM up on the top of the list, I know they do a lot of solutions, but you hear IBM and you think PC and I haven't seen an IBM PC is while.

[akm3]

Apple has a higher market cap then Dell and RIMM combined :)

It begs the question: Are they over valued right now?

[applefan69]

its funny

11 years ago everyone say apple dead

now everyone is finally fearing the great big apple all over again.

Mostly thanks to steve jobs...

[portent]

Dems a'lot'a zeros for a computer company with an installed customer base that is less than 10 percent of Microsoft. :eek:

Yeah, it's almost as if financial performance and market position had very little to do with one another...

[Bonte]

and after seeing how much money M$ has... I'm refiguring my estimate that M$ could callapse in 5 years to more like 15... but who cares about my estimates? I

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_32/b4095000656875.htm
Cash and Short- term investments
Microsoft : $23.7 billion
Apple : $20.8 billion

http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/microsoft/library/msftvapplecashjun08.jpg

[PinkyMacGodess]

Maybe Dell should close shop before the billions of people they have pissed off come marching through their doors and tear the place down to the ground...

Dell needs to step down and someone with a mind for actually living up to PR get the wheel.

[EricNau]

All I can say is I'm not convinced. I describe Google as a company with ADD. I see them heading off in all directions at once without really perfecting anything. Gmail is still in beta -- how many years later? Google Earth is a nightmare and hasn't been updated for some time. Maps still lacks some obvious features. I don't know anyone who uses their online applications. They do one thing really well, which has given them lots of money to pursue a wide variety of projects -- but where's the focus? Where's the desire to get something right before they take up the next thing?
I agree. It's almost as if Google is the bloated Apple of 12 years ago: no direction and lacking focus. They've released some great products in recent years, but at the same time they're letting those products stagnate, while wasting resources on endeavors with little promise of success or return.

[BjarkiS]

All I can say is I'm not convinced. I describe Google as a company with ADD. I see them heading off in all directions at once without really perfecting anything. Gmail is still in beta -- how many years later? Google Earth is a nightmare and hasn't been updated for some time. Maps still lacks some obvious features. I don't know anyone who uses their online applications. They do one thing really well, which has given them lots of money to pursue a wide variety of projects -- but where's the focus? Where's the desire to get something right before they take up the next thing?

I would say Gmail is something they have gotten just right. I don't know why that beta tag is still there, I've never (since 2004) felt like it was an incomplete product.

[IJ Reilly]

Yeah, it's almost as if financial performance and market position had very little to do with one another...

No, it's really just the opposite. Apple is showing tremendous growth and more growth potential for the future with profitable products. Microsoft bumped against some natural limits years ago, and they only make money on Windows and software. Everything else is a loser.

[revenuee]

All I can say is I'm not convinced. I describe Google as a company with ADD. I see them heading off in all directions at once without really perfecting anything. Gmail is still in beta -- how many years later? Google Earth is a nightmare and hasn't been updated for some time. Maps still lacks some obvious features. I don't know anyone who uses their online applications. They do one thing really well, which has given them lots of money to pursue a wide variety of projects -- but where's the focus? Where's the desire to get something right before they take up the next thing?

No one is asking you to be convinced

but

Should they have ALL 17K emoployees working one project?

they have divisions and groups trying and experimenting -- are they charging for such inferior products? No, they allow you to choose and use, and experiment.

I think if they can afford it, they should try to grow.

[bigmc6000]

I think some of the comparisons to stock prices in the past as they relate to market cap are a bit hard to get a hold of unless a financial source gives them to you. You can't just take the current cap and divide by the price and then multiply by the previous price because market cap is stock price times the number of shares. I don't think anyone here would claim that the number of shares in Apple when it was at 195 is the same number of shares it has today.

[IJ Reilly]

Cash and Short- term investments
Microsoft : $23.7 billion
Apple : $20.8 billion

The downward trend began when Microsoft declared a stock dividend, which is what Apple should also do.

I agree. It's almost as if Google is the bloated Apple of 12 years ago: no direction and lacking focus. They've released some great products in recent years, but at the same time they're letting those products stagnate, while wasting resources on endeavors with little promise of success or return.

Or Microsoft during the mid-'90s, when it looked like there was no bet they wouldn't place.

I would say Gmail is something they have gotten just right. I don't know why that beta tag is still there, I've never (since 2004) felt like it was an incomplete product.

Obviously they don't think it's done yet. Or maybe it's an oversight. Now, that would be even worse, no?

[WaRrK]

I find those numbers amazing - we still think of Microsoft as this unassailably large company (don't get me wrong their influence is still immense) but they are now less than 2/5 bigger than Apple.

Microsoft's problem is that their cap is shrinking whilst Apples is growing.

we live in interesting times....

[137489]

Quote:
"What would I do? I'd shut [Apple] down and give the money back to the shareholders," Michael Dell said before a crowd of several thousand IT executives.


Really? Well Mr. Dell... Considering your standing and your company's customer service track record - I would shut [dell] down and give the money back to anyone who ever bought a product from Dell....

God knows I could use my $1500 back. Ah but yes, it is my experience with Dell (home and work) and seeing all other companies fold or get bought out as to why I looked at Apple. That and the fact I saw how nice OS X is.
Now that I did switch- never going back......

Well done Dell, another disastified customer = another Happy Apple Switcher.


:apple: YOU ROCK STEVE!!!! :apple: Thanks for making apple what it is and having all the 3rd party software companies take note.

And to quote Bill Gates "Nooo... Unix is Bad" Oh really? Unix is the most stable OS around and FREE BSD is Unix, which is the underbelly of OS X.

[Axemantitan]

I bet Mr. Dell feels pretty stupid when he sees those numbers.

He probably feels like the character name that a Michael Dell played in this movie (http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0217331/).

[bigmc6000]

Obviously they don't think it's done yet. Or maybe it's an oversight. Now, that would be even worse, no?

I wonder if they just leave it that way to make people think they are on the cutting edge of web based e-mail...

[tk421]

is online photo editing software that far away? how about video editing?

I can't imagine they are too close - especially video editing. My prediction on video is not for another decade at least.

That said, I love Google.

Google is excellent at many things in addition to their search engine. Gmail is awesome! Google Earth is great for wasting time (even if it has some bugs). And one small production company I regularly work for uses Google Docs and Google Calendar extensively across their business.

[IJ Reilly]

No one is asking you to be convinced

I am asking me whether I'm convinced. The answer is no. My opinion is informed by this answer.

I think some of the comparisons to stock prices in the past as they relate to market cap are a bit hard to get a hold of unless a financial source gives them to you. You can't just take the current cap and divide by the price and then multiply by the previous price because market cap is stock price times the number of shares. I don't think anyone here would claim that the number of shares in Apple when it was at 195 is the same number of shares it has today.

The number of outstanding shares hasn't changed appreciably since December. Apple isn't currently buying back shares, they haven't split shares. So the only way the number could have changed is if options were redeemed. Some of this has probably happened, but not enough to make a significant difference.

[137489]

I think the entire iGoogle system shows that Google has pretty good idea of where it is going.

the iGoogle system is taking advantage of faster processing speeds and faster internet connection to develop a world wide main frame.

Take Google docs -- sure, in their infancy they probably don't pose a real threat to Office software, but give it development time. What other software solutions can we see?

integrated google mail and calender.

is online photo editing software that far away? how about video editing?

google is building a foundation for powerful next generation internet devices.

speculation? off course it is ...but am really off my mark?

I see where you are going and yes that is the future. However, I am one to have my software and files (especially sensitive files like Financial) on my local PC and encrypted.

Funny where we came and where we are headed:

1. Dumb terminals on a mainframe.
2. Smart terminal on a mainframe.
3. Citrix running on a server
4. Smart PC's running Internet apps running on a server (new term for a mainframe:)
Next - everything web based on a server, nothing local = dumb web browsers (PC/terminal) on a mainframe (server).

Prophecy is really just history pre-written.

[lamadude]

Gmail may be in beta but it I think it is the best web based email system out there. MobileMe is NOT in Beta and look at what a train wreck that is.

[wonderkid]

So what if Apple did design everything? Cars, subways, cash registers, trains, kitchen appliances & other 'white' goods? Are we headed towards Earth, Inc., with Apple our global brand? :apple:

[bigmc6000]

The number of outstanding shares hasn't changed appreciably since December. Apple isn't currently buying back shares, they haven't split shares. So the only way the number could have changed is if options were redeemed. Some of this has probably happened, but not enough to make a significant difference.

Or if people sold their stock and/or others started to buy in. According to NYTimes there was a volume of 30.1 million today (vs 3.6 for Google)

EDIT: Case in point - Engaget chunked 4 billion off of Apple's market cap in 1 day with a bad report and Apple didn't buy back any shares, split their stock or had any options redeemed

http://digg.com/apple/Engadget_Knocks_4_billion_off_Apple_Market_Cap_on_Bogus_iPhone_email

[137489]

Gmail may be in beta but it I think it is the best web based email system out there. MobileMe is NOT in Beta and look at what a train wreck that is.

I keep forgetting it is still only beta...... How long is that now? Good testing period....

[aneftp]

Wow. If apple sells 40 million iphones next year we could see it take over Microsoft and become the biggest tech firm of all time.

Lets be realistic. Even if MSFT's shares fall to half, MSFT has what other tech firms do not.....physical assets such as buildings and most importantly (last time I checked like about a 40 Billion Dollars of hard cash in it's reserves.) MSFT isn't going anywhere.

Most tech companies are built are valued on stock prices, MSFT has literally hard cold cash in hand in addition to it's stock price. By comparison I think Google has about 6 Billion in Cash. That's a big difference between MSFT and these other companies.

[137489]

So what if Apple did design everything? Cars, subways, cash registers, trains, kitchen appliances & other 'white' goods? Are we headed towards Earth, Inc., with Apple our global brand? :apple:

You seen the movie WALL*E where everything was owned by Buy-N-Large (BNL) Welcome to the Axiom.

http://www.buynlarge.com/image/disclaimer.jpg

http://www.jimhillmedia.com/mb/images/upload/WALL-E-Axiom-web.jpg

[rdowns]

Or if people sold their stock and/or others started to buy in. According to NYTimes there was a volume of 30.1 million today (vs 3.6 for Google)

Buying and selling of stock has no effect on the total number of shares outstanding. If I have 100 shares and I sell them to you, no new stock was created.

The only way for the outstanding shares to decrease is for Apple to buy back its stock.

The ways for increasing shares is a new stock issue (which Apple hasn't done) or the 2 ways IJ mentioned, stock options exercised or a split.

EDIT: Volume refers to the number of shares that were traded today. Google has been flat and with below recent history volume. Apple has been flying the last 4 or 5 sessions so volume is higher. 30 million is not even that busy a day for AAPL.

[revenuee]

I am asking me whether I'm convinced. The answer is no. My opinion is informed by this answer.



The number of outstanding shares hasn't changed appreciably since December. Apple isn't currently buying back shares, they haven't split shares. So the only way the number could have changed is if options were redeemed. Some of this has probably happened, but not enough to make a significant difference.

I'm not sure what we debating over now

the price? or Googles future.

To the post about Apple designing everything

we have/had that with GE --- major conglomerate with their hands in EVERY cookie jar -- and now, a spiraling stock price --- the market is having a sale :)

[tk421]

Gmail may be in beta but it I think it is the best web based email system out there. MobileMe is NOT in Beta and look at what a train wreck that is.

Well said. Gmail has been perfect for me. Can't imagine going with anything else, at least for the foreseeable future.

[EagerDragon]

Funny how Dell sells a lot more computers than Apple yet Apple is worth 3 times more than Dell. After Dell said they should just return the money to the shareholders, Dell is scraping by while Apple is sitting on about 21 billion cash.

[rdowns]

I keep forgetting it is still only beta...... How long is that now? Good testing period....

Gmail may be in beta but it I think it is the best web based email system out there. MobileMe is NOT in Beta and look at what a train wreck that is.

Well said. Gmail has been perfect for me. Can't imagine going with anything else, at least for the foreseeable future.

I wish MobileMe worked as well as Gmail in terms of speed.

[cameronjpu]

Or if people sold their stock and/or others started to buy in. According to NYTimes there was a volume of 30.1 million today (vs 3.6 for Google)

EDIT: Case in point - Engaget chunked 4 billion off of Apple's market cap in 1 day with a bad report and Apple didn't buy back any shares, split their stock or had any options redeemed

http://digg.com/apple/Engadget_Knocks_4_billion_off_Apple_Market_Cap_on_Bogus_iPhone_email

Dude... none of that has any impact on shares outstanding. That volume of 30.1 million is 30.1 million sales and 30.1 million purchases.

[astrodude18]

New theory: Michael Dell started the Apple fire upon seeing those numbers. ;)


lol wouldn't be surprised...

[bigmc6000]

Buying and selling of stock has no effect on the total number of shares outstanding. If I have 100 shares and I sell them to you, no new stock was created.

The only way for the outstanding shares to decrease is for Apple to buy back its stock.

The ways for increasing shares is a new stock issue (which Apple hasn't done) or the 2 ways IJ mentioned, stock options exercised or a split.

EDIT: Volume refers to the number of shares that were traded today. Google has been flat and with below recent history volume. Apple has been flying the last 4 or 5 sessions so volume is higher. 30 million is not even that busy a day for AAPL.

They've increased in # of shares by about 20 million since this time last year (about 2.5%).(This was the last time they passed Google, best info I could find anyway)
http://www.macnn.com/articles/07/08/31/aapl.passes.goog/

EDIT: I think I've been at work too long, 12 hour days will get you (Only excuse I have for implying volume had any impact on market cap other than it generally provides a decent view of how stable the shares were for the day)

[137489]

I wish MobileMe worked as well as Gmail in terms of speed.

speed and reliability

[rhett7660]

Great job apple....... I am happy I purchased apple a while back also. This is great news!!!!

I love the Michael Dell quote..... Priceless..

[Bonte]

The downward trend began when Microsoft declared a stock dividend, which is what Apple should also do.

MS cash reserve went down when MS didn't know what to do with it, they declared a stock dividend and a share buy back program but that didn't help the stock price. Tech company's don't need a stupid dividend, they need to grow.

Lets say Apple -some day- earns $6 billion a year in net profit, divided by 885 million shares is about $6,5 a year in dividend. Yes? That's stupid.

[orthodoc]

What I can't understand is why RIMM would be so much higher than Disney. Disney is involved in so many things such as media and movies, yet their market cap is less than a company that only makes smart phones.

[peejack]

Job well done, Apple!

Don't you mean; Jobs, well done. ;):p

[IJ Reilly]

I'm not sure what we debating over now

Beats me. :)

I said I am not convinced that Google really has a plan for where they are going. Your response was that nobody asked me if I was convinced -- which is like saying that nobody asked for my opinion. I guess that's true, but if you look at it that way, then nobody asked for yours either. Makes for fine discussion.

[bigmc6000]

MS cash reserve went down when MS didn't know what to do with it, they declared a stock dividend and a share buy back program but that didn't help the stock price. Tech company's don't need a stupid dividend, they need to grow.

Lets say Apple -some day- earns $6 billion a year in net profit, divided by 885 million shares is about $6,5 a year in dividend. Yes? That's stupid.

It's all about the re-investment. I've got some stock that my grandma gave me back when I was a kid and I really only own 29 shares but through dividends my portfolio has a value of over 70 shares.

[IJ Reilly]

MS cash reserve went down when MS didn't know what to do with it, they declared a stock dividend and a share buy back program but that didn't help the stock price. Tech company's don't need a stupid dividend, they need to grow.

Lets say Apple -some day- earns $6 billion a year in net profit, divided by 885 million shares is about $6,5 a year in dividend. Yes? That's stupid.

Since we're apparently in "stupid mode" now, then I have to say, your logic and math are both kind of stupid. First, Apple doesn't seem to know what to do with their cash. They are just hoarding it, which is not productive. Second, a modest dividend of $1.00 per share would cost Apple under $1 billion a year, which is far less than their cash hoard is growing. Finally, a dividend does not impede growth, it rewards investor patience.

[Michael CM1]

I always love when Arn pulls out the Dell quote.

Never EVER look down on your competition, no matter how low you think they are at the time.

Can we pull the quote by Bill Gates about people never needing more than 640K of memory? Maybe he was talking about toasters. I know my toaster runs fine on just 640K memory, but I would still love a 1MB toaster so it would brown evenly.

[alphaod]

Here's a notable one that was left off the list:

- AT&T (T) - $184,357,000,000

But I would assume AT&T is not entirely a tech company?

[egor]

well ... from a valuation stand point -- YES --- the earnings are what determine if a company will stay at it's level.

BUT efficient market hypothesis suggests that price (which is a reflection of market cap) reflects that true value -- since value is a matter of perception and agreement by buyer and seller :)

Humans aren't efficient and neither is the stock market though. Hence why it is possible to consistently make money in what is a zero sum game.

[137489]

Can we pull the quote by Bill Gates about people never needing more than 640K of memory? Maybe he was talking about toasters. I know my toaster runs fine on just 640K memory, but I would still love a 1MB toaster so it would brown evenly.

Or how about the IBM owner back in 1938 said he could see a need for maybe 5 computers in the world.

[137489]

It's all about the re-investment.
.


No its about Developers, Developers, Developers. :eek:

Sorry, but with all the quotes going around on this thread, I could not resist. :p Your first sentence just threw that in my head......


It's been a long day..........

[Digitalclips]

3 Apple = 1 Dell...

Now I would shut down Dell and give its money back to the shareholders.

Nah! Why give it back? Just close it lol

[Digitalclips]

Since we're apparently in "stupid mode" now, then I have to say, your logic and math are both kind of stupid. First, Apple doesn't seem to know what to do with their cash. They are just hoarding it, which is not productive. Second, a modest dividend of $1.00 per share would cost Apple under $1 billion a year, which is far less than their cash hoard is growing. Finally, a dividend does not impede growth, it rewards investor patience.

You maybe correct, I don't know enough about this. I did see a report that companies that don't pay dividends tend do better in the long run. Was this wrong?

[myod-rules]

Anybody who has taken a 1 week finance course realizes that what counts is not market cap, or revenues, but return-on-assets (ROA).

ROA is the measurement that tells you how well a company is managed. It's a percentage that indicates that for every dollar a company has in it's control, how much money can the management make?

Assets = buildings, cash, inventory in stock, accounts receivable, etc. Good management maximizes cash and minimizes inventory and accounts receivable.

ROA = income (profit) / assets.

For AAPL, ROA for 2007 was $4.6 bn/25.3 bn = 18.2%

18.2% is phenomenal. Anything in the mid-teens = great management.

For Dell, ROA for 2007 was $2.6 bn/25.6 bn = 10.2%

10.2% is pretty good. It's gotten better since Michael has come back to run the show. Not time to sell the business yet.

For MSFT, ROA for 2007 was $14.4 bn/63.2 bn = 22.8%

This is beyond phenomenal. It means MSFT is a money-making machine. I would argue AAPL is appropriately valued, but MSFT is under-valued. If you want a buying opportunity, buy MSFT.

Flamers: I am a total Apple FanBoi. Using Macs since 1994, I currently own 2 running Macs (and an old iBook), 3 iPods, my wife has an iPhone, we have an AppleTV, a bunch of Airports, and I've converted at least 3 people to the fold. I am not a troll, just reporting the numbers.

[orthodoc]

The great Warren Buffett has never paid a dividend at Berkshire Hathaway. His thought is that you only pay a dividend if the company can't find a better way to invest the money to then generate even more profit and thus raise the stock price even more.

[Your Daddy Q]

MS is still the king!

[TuffLuffJimmy]

3 Apple = 1 Dell...

Now I would shut down Dell and give its money back to the shareholders.

hahaha nice math

[revenuee]

Beats me. :)

which is like saying that nobody asked for my opinion

I didn't mean for it to sound that way :)

[gifford]

Apple was worth $2.2 billion when Michael Dell uttered that quote

what was stupid (if i remember correctly) apple had $2 billion in the bank! making all its assets worth a mere $0.2 bil

[egor]

Anybody who has taken a 1 week finance course realizes that what counts is not market cap, or revenues, but return-on-assets (ROA).

ROA is the measurement that tells you how well a company is managed. It's a percentage that indicates that for every dollar a company has in it's control, how much money can the management make?

Assets = buildings, cash, inventory in stock, accounts receivable, etc. Good management maximizes cash and minimizes inventory and accounts receivable.

ROA = income (profit) / assets.

For AAPL, ROA for 2007 was $4.6 bn/25.3 bn = 18.2%

18.2% is phenomenal. Anything in the mid-teens = great management.

For Dell, ROA for 2007 was $2.6 bn/25.6 bn = 10.2%

10.2% is pretty good. It's gotten better since Michael has come back to run the show. Not time to sell the business yet.

For MSFT, ROA for 2007 was $14.4 bn/63.2 bn = 22.8%

This is beyond phenomenal. It means MSFT is a money-making machine. I would argue AAPL is appropriately valued, but MSFT is under-valued. If you want a buying opportunity, buy MSFT.

You've deduced MSFT is under-valued based on ROA alone? I don't understand. MSFT's ROA could remain at 22.8% with the stock costing twice as much. Market cap absolutely does count, it's the second component to assessing whether a company is under or over valued. The end point to company worth estimates is not ROA, it's the current revenue and the future growth. You may derive the latter from ROA but if you wish, but in itself it is not the most important means of assessing a company's prospects. You have to use various means to make an accurate assessment.

[IJ Reilly]

You maybe correct, I don't know enough about this. I did see a report that companies that don't pay dividends tend do better in the long run. Was this wrong?

That depends -- how do you define "do better?"

This is beyond phenomenal. It means MSFT is a money-making machine. I would argue AAPL is appropriately valued, but MSFT is under-valued. If you want a buying opportunity, buy MSFT.

And how long have you been making this argument? How much of your own money do you have invested in MSFT?

The great Warren Buffett has never paid a dividend at Berkshire Hathaway. His thought is that you only pay a dividend if the company can't find a better way to invest the money to then generate even more profit and thus raise the stock price even more.

Berkshire Hathaway is fundamentally an investment holding company. You cannot compare them to a manufacturer of consumer products. Even so Buffett's rule-of-thumb for when dividends should be paid holds here. Apple accumulates cash with no apparent plans to use it to expand the company's business. If they did, I would not be arguing for a dividend.

[Analog Kid]

The fall of Dell was predictable. They're whole business plan was to essentially drive their profits to zero. Commoditize computer manufacturing. It worked while they were the first, but there are a lot of companies that are perfectly happy running on lower margins than Dell can survive on.

Much better to have the Apple model-- anyone can outsource their business, but not everyone can continuously innovate.

At least Apple, unlike google, actually produces a product, does R&D, and contributes something rather than just sucking up other peoples work and selling advertising.
I think you're selling Google a little short here-- they do a tremendous amount of R&D, and they produce one of the most valuable products out there: quality search. The fact that they've really only got one revenue stream doesn't discount the fact that they have a stack of talent and have improved my life significantly.
There's a single product that could kill the entire Google business model: AdBlock. If it ever gets widespread adoption, watch that stock crash.
Now this is an interesting concept I hadn't thought of before-- with MS hating Google as much as they do, and owning the browser market, I wonder if they'd considered putting ad blocking into IE.
Split-adjusted basis around $5.00 a share, since we seem to be showing off. :)
I bought in around the same time with this strategy: once I've made enough on the stock to buy an iMac, I'll sell. You may be holding a bigger financial profit, but the stock I bought back then changed my life. ;)
I don't think that was the point of the comment on Google. Even if it was, I would add that I believe Google is surfing a wave right now, but that I'm not convinced that they really know where they're going.
All I can say is I'm not convinced. I describe Google as a company with ADD. I see them heading off in all directions at once without really perfecting anything. Gmail is still in beta -- how many years later? Google Earth is a nightmare and hasn't been updated for some time. Maps still lacks some obvious features. I don't know anyone who uses their online applications. They do one thing really well, which has given them lots of money to pursue a wide variety of projects -- but where's the focus? Where's the desire to get something right before they take up the next thing?I'm convinced they don't know where they're going, but they're making boat loads of money and seeding it everywhere they can. They're stock price has no where to go but down but they'll be remembered as a huge influence on the next decade-- not just because of hype, but because of their randomly targeted innovation.

In the same way the Dot Com boom brought huge innovation because the money was flowing without accountability, Google is accomplishing the same thing single handedly.

To some extent their frenetic development is serving the company quite well-- as long as they're seen as friendly, cool and innovative, people will use their one product.
Obviously they don't think it's done yet. Or maybe it's an oversight. Now, that would be even worse, no?
I don't work for Google, but it seems to me that the Beta thing is cultural. An indication that nothing is ever complete-- we're still innovating here. Or maybe a nod to their shareholders that it's not done because they haven't figured out how to make money from it yet.

[IJ Reilly]

what was stupid (if i remember correctly) apple had $2 billion in the bank! making all its assets worth a mere $0.2 bil

But the question was, "how much money did Apple have then?" not AAPL's market cap. The answer is about $1.2 billion in cash. Yes, at the time more than 50% of AAPL's share value was represented by cash. The market was at that time valuing everything else Apple owned and their entire business at about $1 billion. That was a mind-boggling concept, which is why I bought AAPL in 1997.
;)

[revenuee]

Humans aren't efficient and neither is the stock market though. Hence why it is possible to consistently make money in what is a zero sum game.

I don't know about consistently. But I agree -- humans are not efficient and they can beat the market.

But i don't know if valuation is the way to do it either.

There is a lot of work being done in mechanism design and experimental economics -- really cutting edge stuff ... the math can get a little confusing if you calculus ends at first year though

[IJ Reilly]

I'm convinced they don't know where they're going, but they're making boat loads of money and seeding it everywhere they can. They're stock price has no where to go but down but they'll be remembered as a huge influence on the next decade-- not just because of hype, but because of their randomly targeted innovation.

Google is plugged into such a hefty revenue stream that a lot of people assume that they can do no wrong. But when we get down into the details, we find them pursuing a great many projects which are not obviously directed towards making more money for them, and many of them never seem to get completely finished anyway.

[miketcool]

That is freakin' amazing.

Just think...
You start a business and roughly 25 years later it's worth $157 BILLION!!!!
That's gotta give a satisfying feeling :rolleyes:

I think Apple should cut a check for every family in America for $100 to offset the economy. Its only fair because they are a large company making billions in profits from us while we buy their over priced machines.

[28monkeys]

i wish to know what will Dell say about Apple's success now. Somebody should really interview him. :rolleyes:

[gifford]

;)

come on it was 10 years ago :)

whats .8 billion between friends

also they lost .8 bil in a quarter at that time, so both could be correct

[Analog Kid]

whats .8 billion between friends
Nothing, friend.

[sellitman]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_0_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5B108 Safari/525.20)

I don't think that was the point of the comment on Google. Even if it was, I would add that I believe Google is surfing a wave right now, but that I'm not convinced that they really know where they're going.

I think the entire iGoogle system shows that Google has pretty good idea of where it is going.

the iGoogle system is taking advantage of faster processing speeds and faster internet connection to develop a world wide main frame.

Take Google docs -- sure, in their infancy they probably don't pose a real threat to Office software, but give it development time. What other software solutions can we see?

integrated google mail and calender.

is online photo editing software that far away? how about video editing?

google is building a foundation for powerful next generation internet devices.

speculation? off course it is ...but am really off my mark?

You are spot on. I have a feeling someday, somehow Google and Apple will be one company.

[bluedevil14]

My wallet is likeing my AAPL right now

[Stella]

is online photo editing software that far away? how about video editing?

Online photo editing is here...
https://www.photoshop.com/express/landing.html

[bytethese]

Damn, I keep missing out on great opportunities to buy Apple stock. I need to get my butt in gear! :)

[gcmexico]

way to go Apple!! dell's are only good for parts...and burning material

[revenuee]

That photoshop express thing is pretty sweet --

Although it's starting to make me think of all the privacy issues of haveing EVERYTHING on some network like that. --- AWWW haha

Damn, I keep missing out on great opportunities to buy Apple stock. I need to get my butt in gear! :)

or consider shorting ... LOL

nah ... I think it might just have a little more steam --- or a split <-- this is just unfounded speculation

[IJ Reilly]

come on it was 10 years ago :)

whats .8 billion between friends

also they lost .8 bil in a quarter at that time, so both could be correct

No, it was just today, a few posts back.

And my figure is correct. I can supply a source, if you don't believe me.

[Veri]

At least Apple, unlike google, actually produces a product, does R&D, and contributes something rather than just sucking up other peoples work and selling advertising.
Indeed. I can't help but stare blankly when people criticise Microsoft for lack of creativity then rally behind Google.

There's a single product that could kill the entire Google business model: AdBlock. If it ever gets widespread adoption, watch that stock crash.
Brin, Page and Schmidt are great businessmen; what is their deal with "non-profit-making" Mozilla if not a way of keeping a controlling hand on the web browser to forestall this? Come on MS, kick Ballmer to the curb and bring back the '90s competitive Microsoft that was so hated for thinking forward (desktop builders not integrating a browser, raise your hand?). Build a search engine that exists primarily to demonstrate engineering excellence and promote the Microsoft brand, ad-free and with for-pay corporate services. Make it integrate beautifully with Windows, but operate gracefully from all platforms. Then incorporate an AdBlocker in IE ;).

[newb16]

I bought mine at $33 in 1984, two splits ago (net adjusted price is $8.25).

At least Apple, unlike google, actually produces a product, does R&D, and contributes something rather than just sucking up other peoples work and selling advertising.

MacOS licenses hidden in the price of hardware capable of running it ( legally), but standard in all other aspects is a product ( except cracking casing)? $2.400/year mandatory iphone contract is a product? License to listen music on ipod is a product?


There's a single product that could kill the entire Google business model: AdBlock. If it ever gets widespread adoption, watch that stock crash.
Then site owners will swich to embedded text ads like
Subj: My iphone cracked a [ AD.BY.GOOGLE: IPHONE UNLOCK WWW.UNLOCK.BAR] part plz help!

[Xavier]

Pretty impressive. Major companies are losing money while Apple is gaining.

Makes me wonder what will happen in the next 10 years. Only good things from Apple!

[dasikes]

This is so funny. I just watched Pirates of Silicon Valley (that movie is hilarious, everyone needs to watch it) last night, and how things have changed since that movie was made...

Except I bet Steve still hates IBM with a fiery passion.

[Cinch]

At one point (circa 1999) Microsoft market cap. was more than $500 bln or double what it was today.

AAPL current earning per share is $5.11 and its current P/E is 35 a number well above the S&P average.

AAPL has never given out dividend. Microsoft has brought back shares albeit very meager. To an old school investor, why invest in a company that has never pay dividend or buy back shares. Remember AAPL is not a young company. It has been around since the 70s, but I'll give Apple the benefit of the doubt for it has a rebirth in 1997 or there about.

AAPL growth potential is subject to current economic condition as well as future prospects.

AAPL core consumers (fanatics) cannot support this high volume business, obviously.

IMHO, the economy is at the start of a massive correction that will challenge the vitality of capitalism. We are not in a recession, rather a stealth depression! No matter how fabulous Apple products are, Apple is not immune to this harsh economic reality that the world is finding themselves in.

Cinch

[cameronjpu]

AAPL core consumers (fanatics) cannot support this high volume business, obviously.

While you are correct that a core of fanatics could not support Apple's current valuation, I think it is pretty clear that Apple has expanded beyond that core and plans to push (HARD) even further next year. That is why it pre-announced that it would be letting profit margins decline - because it is planning to lower prices to bring in more business.

IMHO, the economy is at the start of a massive correction that will challenge the vitality of capitalism. We are not in a recession, rather a stealth depression! No matter how fabulous Apple products are, Apple is not immune to this harsh economic reality that the world is finding themselves in.

You're right, this is not a recession. The economy is still growing to the chagrin of all the doomsayers.

[Definity]

It's not much of a surprise that Dell are "only" worth 50 billion, but saying that, I really do doubt that Mr Dell will really care too much.

Maybe he won't buy 400 bugattis with the interest he earns every day.


What is interesting though, is how rapidly Google has gained ground. That's a lot to earn off adverts. Viva la Adblock (firefox)/Content Blocker (opera).

[IJ Reilly]

This is so funny. I just watched Pirates of Silicon Valley (that movie is hilarious, everyone needs to watch it) last night, and how things have changed since that movie was made..

Including the truth. This is a movie, not a documentary.

AAPL has never given out dividend. Microsoft has brought back shares albeit very meager. To an old school investor, why invest in a company that has never pay dividend or buy back shares. Remember AAPL is not a young company. It has been around since the 70s, but I'll give Apple the benefit of the doubt for it has a rebirth in 1997 or there about.

Apple did pay a dividend, from 1987 to 1995. It was pretty paltry, but to say never is not correct. They also bought back shares when the stock price was very depressed, during the early 2000s is my recollection.

[Definity]

This is so funny. I just watched Pirates of Silicon Valley (that movie is hilarious, everyone needs to watch it) last night, and how things have changed since that movie was made...

Except I bet Steve still hates IBM with a fiery passion.

It wasn't as bad as Hackers. That really did glorify the Unix screen beyond what it was. Only decent thing about that I guess was Angelina Jolie, before she got famous.

[Cinch]

Apple did pay a dividend, from 1987 to 1995. It was pretty paltry, but to say never is not correct. They also bought back shares when the stock price was very depressed, during the early 2000s is my recollection.

My apology if I was incorrect.

[IJ Reilly]

My apology if I was incorrect.

You were incorrect, but no apology is required. ;)

[bobertoq]

Doesn't really work like that.

AAPL 179.30
MSFT 27.91
GOOG 500.03Those are the stock prices, not how much the company is worth.

Good job Apple.

[BRLawyer]

No no no... He was referring to the quote from Dell in the article.

Nope, it doesn't mean Dell isn't profitable...it means Dell IS DEAD. Just like Microsoft. As I predicted, Apple is poised to become the BIGGEST IT and consumer electronics company in the world in just 2 years...wait and see.

GO APPLE!

[IJ Reilly]

I wouldn't say that Dell or Microsoft are "dead" exactly, but they are flopping around like fish on a dock. Dell is in a particularly difficult position because their fortunes are tied directly to the Windows PC business, which isn't growing very much, and which in turn is effectively directed by Microsoft. Dell's ability to control their future is spectacularly limited.

[diamond.g]

I wouldn't say that Dell or Microsoft are "dead" exactly, but they are flopping around like fish on a dock. Dell is in a particularly difficult position because their fortunes are tied directly to the Windows PC business, which isn't growing very much, and which in turn is effectively directed by Microsoft. Dell's ability to control their future is spectacularly limited.

What about a full switch to Ubuntu?


The downside to Apple out growing Microsoft is they lose the "I am a small fry" love they get. Once Apple marketshare grows larger than Windows I fully expect the EU to go after them just like they went after MS. If Apple doesn't unbundle the hardware and software I am not sure how they would ever claim more marketshare than MS.

[IJ Reilly]

What about a full switch to Ubuntu?

That would grow their market share down to about 2%.

The downside to Apple out growing Microsoft is they lose the "I am a small fry" love they get. Once Apple marketshare grows larger than Windows I fully expect the EU to go after them just like they went after MS. If Apple doesn't unbundle the hardware and software I am not sure how they would ever claim more marketshare than MS.

Apple doesn't get any "small fry love" from me, but I don't see the Mac's market share rivaling Windows any time soon, if ever. Anything north of 15% would be huge.

[essinger]

Googles market cap has surpassed Apple today, in case anyone cares.

[DoFoT9]

Googles market cap has surpassed Apple today, in case anyone cares.

give it a while and we will come back up :p

[twoodcc]

great news for Apple. hope they continue to do well

[The Tall One]

Glad I bought stock in Apple a long long time ago. :D

[gkarris]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Digital Daily notes (http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/20080813/boom-apple-worth-more-than-google/) that Apple's market capitalization at $159.37 billion is now worth more than Google's which is at $157.56 billion. Apple's market cap first exceeded $100 billion (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/05/30/apple-worth-more-than-100-billion/) in May of 2007. Apple was included into the S&P 100 index at that time. For interest, MacDailyNews compiled (http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/18159/) a list of the market values of other notable companies:

- Microsoft (MSFT) - $255,648,204,000
- IBM (IBM) - $169,964,678,000
- Apple (AAPL) - $157,012,662,240
- Google (GOOG) - $156,392,862,560
- Cisco (CSCO) - $142,125,692,160
- Intel (INTC) - $135,658,860,000
- Hewlett-Packard (HPQ) - $111,866,423,760
- Nokia (NOK) - $97,746,699,520
- Research In Motion (RIMM) - $71,143,935,000
- Disney (DIS) - $59,257,501,500
- Dell (DELL) - $50,483,256,060

The practical significance of this ranking of market cap is little, but does always revive (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/28/dell-reconsidering-direct-model-dell-retail/) a famous comment by Michael Dell in 1997 when asked about what he would do to fix the then money-losing Apple:

"What would I do? I'd shut [Apple] down and give the money back to the shareholders," Michael Dell said before a crowd of several thousand IT executives.


Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/08/13/apple-now-worth-more-than-google/)


Dell - what an f'n joke, I'm surprised they're worth that much, with the way they treat their customers, and the fact their equipment is junk...

(ok, rant over...)

Go Apple!

[nick9191]

Tell that to Apple and Apple fanboys re: Microsoft.

Except in that case, it's hardly looking 'down' at MS, but looking 'up' at it.

Agreed.

First they ignore you.
Then they laugh at you.
Then they fight you.
Then you win.

[DoFoT9]

Agreed.

First they ignore you.
Then they laugh at you.
Then they fight you.
Then you win.

thats a very good way to put it, sure it might take two/three generations to win :p

[magiic]

I would say Gmail is something they have gotten just right. I don't know why that beta tag is still there, I've never (since 2004) felt like it was an incomplete product.

Im not sure Google ever got the memo about what a "beta" was lol

[koobcamuk]

Im not sure Google ever got the memo about what a "beta" was lol

gmail's imap support is awful. I never use online webmail as I want my emails offline. Wastes so much time logging in to a website...

[bommai]

gmail's imap support is awful. I never use online webmail as I want my emails offline. Wastes so much time logging in to a website...

Why would you say that? I use imap.gmail.com and it works wonderfully.

[TuffLuffJimmy]

gmail's imap support is awful. I never use online webmail as I want my emails offline. Wastes so much time logging in to a website...

I have never, in my 30,000 email career had a single issue with imap support in gmail.

[Unspeaked]

It's been almost a month so I thought it would be interesting to see how the companies mentioned in the first post have seen their market caps change:

- Microsoft (MSFT) - $255,648,204,000
Now: $247b

- IBM (IBM) - $169,964,678,000
Now: $159b

- Apple (AAPL) - $157,012,662,240
Now: $133b

- Google (GOOG) - $156,392,862,560
Now: $135b

- Cisco (CSCO) - $142,125,692,160
Now: $134b

- Intel (INTC) - $135,658,860,000
Now: $112b

- Hewlett-Packard (HPQ) - $111,866,423,760
Now: $116b

- Nokia (NOK) - $97,746,699,520
Now: $76b

- Research In Motion (RIMM) - $71,143,935,000
Now: $61b

- Disney (DIS) - $59,257,501,500
Now: $61b

- Dell (DELL) - $50,483,256,060
Now: $37b

[DoFoT9]

look out IBM your next :) :)