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MacRumors
Aug 14, 2008, 02:29 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

According to a new article from BusinessWeek.com (http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/aug2008/tc20080813_430402.htm), additional sources have corroborated an analyst's claim (http://gigaom.com/2008/08/12/3g-iphone-connection-problems-chip-related/) that recent iPhone 3G connection issues (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/08/12/some-customers-with-iphone-3g-connection-issues/) are the result of issues with the Infineon chipset used to provide 3G connectivity in the iPhone. The sources indicate that Apple plans to address the issue through a software update rather than a hardware recall.

Two sources say Apple will likely issue a software update by the end of September—if not by the end of this month—to resolve the issues. Apple and Infineon are currently testing the fix, which will be included in a broader update of the iPhone's software.

The exact problem with the Infineon chipset remains the subject of speculation, with one source claiming that the fault rests with the chipset struggling to keep up with the popularity and data consumption of the iPhone 3G. However, additional speculation suggests that Apple has been overly conservative with its software settings for determining whether the 3G signal and bandwidth is sufficient to support 3G functions at any given time.

Part of the role of the Infineon chip is to check whether there's enough 3G bandwidth available in a given area. If 3G isn't available or there isn't enough bandwidth, the iPhone will be shifted to a slower network. One source says Apple programmed the Infineon chip to demand a more powerful 3G signal than the iPhone really requires. So if too many people try to make a call or go on the Internet in a given area, some of the devices will decide there's insufficient power and switch to the slower network—even if there is enough 3G bandwidth available.

The source claims that this issue primarily arises in areas of high iPhone density such as "the San Francisco Bay area, Boston, and certain overseas locales."

In contrast, a new MSNBC.com article (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26187370/) cites a report from Ny Teknik, a Swedish technical magazine, claiming that the issues are in fact hardware-related.

The report said the most likely cause of the 3G problems is defective adjustments between the antenna and an amplifier that captures very weak signals from the antenna. This could lead to poor 3G connectivity and slower data speeds.

Apple has not yet acknowledged the existence of 3G connection issues with the new iPhone and declined to comment for either article, leaving the details of the problem and Apple's plans for addressing it uncertain and subject to speculation for the time being.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/08/14/iphone-3g-connection-issues-related-to-software-or-hardware/)



raincoat
Aug 14, 2008, 02:34 AM
Sticking with the original iPhone for now. Cracking cases and 3G issues should be worked out by the next Rev.

JZ Wire
Aug 14, 2008, 02:34 AM
Wow, i hope this gets fixed quick!

w00143881
Aug 14, 2008, 02:38 AM
Usually by Rev C, Apple has been pretty good about getting kinks out.

As cool as it is, above all, the iphone is still a phone and should function properly. No more dropped calls!

I think apple should move towards the plastic used for the current macbook. Not shinny, sturdy, light but good for reception, no cracks AND no finger prints.

PowerFullMac
Aug 14, 2008, 02:43 AM
Never buy something straight after release, stuff like this is bound to happen.

It happened to the first gen iPhone, the iPod touch and now of course the iPhone 3G.

johnnyjibbs
Aug 14, 2008, 02:48 AM
This is good news. I have been getting speeds of around 400-500kb/s on O2 3G, but I wasn't sure if this was good or not. My home broadband Wi-Fi was giving a reading of around 600 even though I thought it was supposed to be 8Mbit*, so I trust those speed tests with a pinch of salt.

I've never had any cracking issues or problems with my iPhone 3G. The battery could be better.


* yes I know that the actual throughput is way lower than that but still...! :eek:

phannon666
Aug 14, 2008, 03:02 AM
I'm gonna shoot for the option that it's a software problem. I say this because my connectivity has been absolutely fine and I live in a small town out in the country.

Mydel
Aug 14, 2008, 03:10 AM
I talked to Telia in Sweden and got informed that its known issue and they are working on it. They will inform me in a week what is gonna happen and if they will replace the phone. I have "server stop responded" message quite often although 5 bars of 3G and sometimes EDGE is faster....

a1016neo
Aug 14, 2008, 03:11 AM
If this is true, it is good news that Apple finally acknowledge this problem and is working on a fix...

And the good news, it can be fixed from a SW update.... So there is no need for a recall! That's good news too!

Stridder44
Aug 14, 2008, 03:12 AM
Usually by Rev C, Apple has been pretty good about getting kinks out.

As cool as it is, above all, the iphone is still a phone and should function properly. No more dropped calls!

I think apple should move towards the plastic used for the current macbook. Not shinny, sturdy, light but good for reception, no cracks AND no finger prints.

This has always been the case. Rev. C stuff is usually the most sturdy/well built (and usually the last Rev. before being replaced before something new).

But yeah, hopefully this'll be fixed quickly. Kind of a big deal I'd say.

Kilamite
Aug 14, 2008, 03:19 AM
I'm waiting for the next iPhone to be released before going in for the dive. Partially because there is a few kinks still out there, and also my T-Mobile contract still has another year left.

Why can't T-Mobile carry the iPhone in the UK!

Elijahg
Aug 14, 2008, 03:23 AM
Sooo no-one has a clue whether it's hardware or software. No doubt Apple will try its hardest to fix it with a software patch though, as recalling several million phones would cost rather a lot.

n8236
Aug 14, 2008, 03:52 AM
If this is truly a hardware issue, Apple will still push out a "fix" and it'll have a placebo effect on people. Then people will be stuck w/ crappy 3G iphones w/ 4389834 dropped calls.

Right now, I get dropped calls. But even worse, whenever I pull the phone outta my pocket, calls usually fail and I have to redial due to some sort of slow connectivity to the towers. This is very unacceptable.

I think it's BS that high density areas have connectivity issues as they claim because they usually are just the opposite. Telecomms know to put more towers in these areas due to the simple nature that it has high towers and an @ssload of people. Not to mention that big metro areas is where $$$ is.

know-it-all5
Aug 14, 2008, 03:54 AM
Its definitely a software problem. If there was a real hardware issue with the infineon chipset, my 3G wouldn't always have 5 bars of service in my area. VERY rarely have i seen my bars drop to less than 3 in the metro detroit area. My speeds on inetwork have varied a lot lately. It depends a lot on the time. At 3am I have over 750kbps sometimes. At 4pm, I am usually closer to 350kbps. I think the issues with slow speeds are due to AT&T's network not being tough enough for everyone having an iphone 3g. The early switching issue to edge, is very likely apple's fault though. In an effort to reduce dropped calls, from 3g fading out suddenly, they decided to make the chip switch to gsm/edge whenever the signal isnt good enough (which was sort of smart considering the tinyness of att's 3g network)... problem is they should have either prevented network switching during calls, or they should have mutually came up with an effective non-call-ending way to switch networks during calls.

Oh and prediction: A solution will come in the way of a software update that will solve the network switching issues. I doubt we will ever see significant 3g speed increases until att can meet the demand.

Oh yeah and for the record... I have a host of issues with my iPhone 3G, all software. Even updated to 2.0.1 I still get keyboard lag sometimes texting, safari crashes more than drunk hollywood stars, and just today it took 20 minutes for me to get my phone to reboot.

I love this phone and depend on it, but there are a ton of annoying kinks that need to be ironed out.

Mydel
Aug 14, 2008, 04:21 AM
Its definitely a software problem. If there was a real hardware issue with the infineon chipset, my 3G wouldn't always have 5 bars of service in my area. VERY rarely have i seen my bars drop to less than 3 in the metro detroit area. My speeds on inetwork have varied a lot lately. It depends a lot on the time. At 3am I have over 750kbps sometimes. At 4pm, I am usually closer to 350kbps. I think the issues with slow speeds are due to AT&T's network not being tough enough for everyone having an iphone 3g. The early switching issue to edge, is very likely apple's fault though. In an effort to reduce dropped calls, from 3g fading out suddenly, they decided to make the chip switch to gsm/edge whenever the signal isnt good enough (which was sort of smart considering the tinyness of att's 3g network)... problem is they should have either prevented network switching during calls, or they should have mutually came up with an effective non-call-ending way to switch networks during calls.

Oh and prediction: A solution will come in the way of a software update that will solve the network switching issues. I doubt we will ever see significant 3g speed increases until att can meet the demand.

Oh yeah and for the record... I have a host of issues with my iPhone 3G, all software. Even updated to 2.0.1 I still get keyboard lag sometimes texting, safari crashes more than drunk hollywood stars, and just today it took 20 minutes for me to get my phone to reboot.

I love this phone and depend on it, but there are a ton of annoying kinks that need to be ironed out.

I dont think you are right. Its not AT&T problem my friend. A lot other providers in different countries have the same issue and it has nothing to do with volume of traffic over the network. Side by side my GF Nokia is waaaay faster than my iPhone. And I have full bars of 3G. But Im sure Apple will try to convince us its not their fault...

JNRidgway15
Aug 14, 2008, 05:04 AM
To be honest I have had several problems with my iPhone and one being the reception issue and others being cosmetic but I just hope Apple Recalls all the iPhone 3G'S s as this is becoming the worst Apple product experience I have been through!!!

BTW Apple will be getting a call from me tonight!!!

Full of Win
Aug 14, 2008, 05:43 AM
Odd that Apple has gone backwards with reliability, since you would think it would only increase. Don't really care, I am so loving my 'old' 1st generation iPhone. I'll wait for a proper 2nd gen iPhone, not this 1.5 crap-fest that we were given.

-Scratch prone back: Check
-Crack prone back: Check
-25% increase in monthly bill: Check
-Dropped calls: Check
-Yellow screen: Check
-No pack in dock: Check
-Pathetically small 3G network: Check and double check

3GUser
Aug 14, 2008, 05:43 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_0_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5B108 Safari/525.20)

There may be an issue as proposed, but I haven't gotten any dropped calls and my 3g speeds on inetwotk have been ip to 960kb. That seems great to me and I am generally very satisfied with my 3G iPhone. It's in a case and removing it makes it look just as pristine as the day I bought it; which was launch day.

If there is a bug it is with the bars indicator. I seem to get 300kb downloads and great call quality with 1 bar.

I live in CT and I presume the issues manifest themselves in different settings.

bigmc6000
Aug 14, 2008, 05:58 AM
I think apple should move towards the plastic used for the current macbook. Not shinny, sturdy, light but good for reception, no cracks AND no finger prints.

Well since they are moving the MB from plastic to Aluminum I kinda doubt they are going to use the plastic from it. But still, 1 major reason I won't get the new iPhone (and the single largest reason I won't get a MB) is because it's plastic but at least the iPhone's plastic looks good - the MB's plastic just looks like, well, plastic. You could probably polish some PVC and make it look like a MB.

I wonder if they'll move the MBP to composite, hmm...

bigmc6000
Aug 14, 2008, 05:59 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_0_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5B108 Safari/525.20)

There may be an issue as proposed, but I haven't gotten any dropped calls and my 3g speeds on inetwotk have been ip to 960kb. That seems great to me and I am generally very satisfied with my 3G iPhone. It's in a case and removing it makes it look just as pristine as the day I bought it; which was launch day.

If there is a bug it is with the bars indicator. I seem to get 300kb downloads and great call quality with 1 bar.

I live in CT and I presume the issues manifest themselves in different settings.

That would really make me believe the first part of the article is true. I'm in Fort Worth and I haven't heard a peep from anyone around here having connectivity issues either.

Felix Martinez
Aug 14, 2008, 06:35 AM
Right now, I get dropped calls. But even worse, whenever I pull the phone outta my pocket, calls usually fail and I have to redial due to some sort of slow connectivity to the towers. This is very unacceptable.
This is happening to me more often on my orig Edge iPhone using OS 2/2.01 than in OS 1.X, so I'm thinking it's a software fix.

thestaton
Aug 14, 2008, 06:38 AM
This is happening to me more often on my orig Edge iPhone using OS 2/2.01 than in OS 1.X, so I'm thinking it's a software fix.

I'm having the same problem with my first gen. I just hope the media keep at this, to keep pressure on apple.

iSimx
Aug 14, 2008, 06:45 AM
I don't seem to get calls cut off or other connectivity problems. Although it is far from bug free. I think the main issue is that it lags loads and sometimes does crash/freeze on me. That hopefully will be ironed out in the next few firmware releases.

phatcat
Aug 14, 2008, 07:08 AM
I'm so glad I returned my 3G on day 30 and kept my 2G iPhone to reactivate!

Lesson learned - never buy new Apple product!

I'm curious to see how their newly redesigned notebooks hold up later this year!!

zign
Aug 14, 2008, 07:09 AM
My home broadband Wi-Fi was giving a reading of around 600 even though I thought it was supposed to be 8Mbit*, so I trust those speed tests with a pinch of salt.

* yes I know that the actual throughput is way lower than that but still...! :eek:

8Mbit ~ 800kb, so 600 isn't that bad.

sjo
Aug 14, 2008, 07:11 AM
Odd that Apple has gone backwards with reliability, since you would think it would only increase.

"We all had more than enough to do"
- Steve Jobs

born4sky
Aug 14, 2008, 07:16 AM
Apple should test there products more before realizing otherwise we might have one more microsoft :(

PowerFullMac
Aug 14, 2008, 07:21 AM
Odd that Apple has gone backwards with reliability, since you would think it would only increase.

I agree, Apple's quality control has really gone downhill, buy maybe its because of them treating the people who work there like crap, they are getting revenge by making phones with no signal.

Lets hope its all sorted soon and Apple becomes its good old reliable self again.

retroneo
Aug 14, 2008, 07:21 AM
the fault rests with the chipset struggling to keep up with the popularity and data consumption of the iPhone 3G.

this is nonsensical.... a chip can't know how popular it is... nor should higher sales affect its operation.

the level of data consumption is also irrelevant as the problems are most visible on simple 9kbps phone calls, not high bandwidth activities.

marksman
Aug 14, 2008, 07:27 AM
Sounds like a lot of people wildly talking out their backsides.

TonyHoyle
Aug 14, 2008, 07:28 AM
This is good news. I have been getting speeds of around 400-500kb/s on O2 3G, but I wasn't sure if this was good or not. My home broadband Wi-Fi was giving a reading of around 600 even though I thought it was supposed to be 8Mbit*, so I trust those speed tests with a pinch of salt.


The speed tests are mostly US based so are pretty useless for UK users - any delay in the packets over that distance skews the results horribly.

eg. iphonespeedtest.com measuring my mbp connected via gigabit LAN to a fast network says it's running at 524kbps. Which is complete bollocks.

For the UK try http://www.broadbandchoices.co.uk/speed-test.asp

Select O2 Mobile Broadband, up to 8Mb (closest to the 7.2Mbps HSPDA speed.. if you're in London you may have to select 16Mb), wireless, run the test then hit cancel when it asks about flash (you can still see the results).

I'm currently getting 6.89Mbps over 3G (close to the theoretical max!!). So I'm happy (sort of.. O2s network seems to be up and down like it's in an olympic trampolening event).

PowerFullMac
Aug 14, 2008, 07:30 AM
The speed tests are mostly US based so are pretty useless for UK users - any delay in the packets over that distance skews the results horribly.

eg. iphonespeedtest.com measuring my mbp connected via gigabit LAN to a fast network says it's running at 524kbps. Which is complete bollocks.

For the UK try http://www.broadbandchoices.co.uk/speed-test.asp

Select O2 Mobile Broadband, up to 8Mb (closest to the 7.2Mbps HSPDA speed.. if you're in London you may have to select 16Mb), wireless, run the test then hit cancel when it asks about flash (you can still see the results).

I'm currently getting 6.89Mbps over 3G (close to the theoretical max!!). So I'm happy.

There is a speed test app for the iPhone, you can install it through the App Store... Its called "Speedtest".

quagmire
Aug 14, 2008, 07:33 AM
I am thinking it is software as well. In areas where I used to get 5 bars of 3G when the iPhone was released, now with more iPhones out there by now I get 2 bars of 3G or goes back to EDGE in the same areas.

Shasterball
Aug 14, 2008, 07:35 AM
Sticking with the original iPhone for now. Cracking cases and 3G issues should be worked out by the next Rev.

Agreed 100%. I think we made the right choice for now...

Shasterball
Aug 14, 2008, 07:36 AM
Never buy something straight after release, stuff like this is bound to happen.

It happened to the first gen iPhone, the iPod touch and now of course the iPhone 3G.

What was wrong with the first gen iPhone?

TonyHoyle
Aug 14, 2008, 07:36 AM
There is a speed test app for the iPhone, you can install it through the App Store... Its called "Speedtest".

One look at the reviews rules that out - 1.5 stars!

That contains a link to iNetwork test which is supposed to be more accurate.. and costs money and doesn't work over 3G! That gets an amazing 2 stars.

Websites are far better - you can find one that produces results that make sense on your main machine first, before putting the iphone to test.. that means you're getting somewhat useful results (although these things are never truly accurate.. too many variables).

earnjam
Aug 14, 2008, 07:43 AM
What was wrong with the first gen iPhone?

How about mine lasted less than a month before about a half inch strip across the screen randomly stopped sensing touches?

Then it took Apple 3 (THREE!!) months to repair it and it ended up costing me $80. ($30 for "loaner phone" and another $50 they just didn't refund for some reason.) I had already worked for about 5 months trying to get the $400 back that they had charged me randomly during the repair, so I didn't feel like pursuing any further.

I just pray I don't ever have to send another product in to Apple for repair.

Anuba
Aug 14, 2008, 07:48 AM
The root of all this trouble is Apple's battery fascism. They're so obsessed with conserving power that they compromise functionality in all sorts of ways just to make the battery time figure look decent.

It's a 3G phone, it's a browser, it's a mail client, it's a calendar, it's a GPS unit, it's a music jukebox, it's your TV and your movie screen, it's a gaming platform -- basically it's everything you need to be entertained, connected and informed 24 hrs a day. Just make sure you don't actually use it for any of these things, or you'll run out of power in no time. Or, make sure to stay near a USB dock or wall outlet at all times. Who wants mobility, right?

The only way to release the iPhone's full potential is to allow customers to leave home with 2, 3 or why not half a dozen extra Li-Ion batteries in their pocket. That way you don't have to worry about 3G power draw, backlight power draw and all that crap. But noooooooo, the iPhone just can't have a battery door like every other phone on the planet, it has to be glued and welded shut. Because otherwise it would be 2 millimeters thicker and the back surface wouldn't be completely flush, and then Ive and Jobs would cry like rabid babies and scream for mommy until they drowned in their own tears and mouth foam.

The Logitech G7 gaming mouse has the perfect solution for the iPhone. One battery in the mouse, the other in the USB charger/receiver. Eject both batteries, swap. 3 seconds of downtime and you're good to go. Apple could easily design something similar on a coffee break.

It's a shame that such an innovative company with such an innovative product refuses to come out of the stone age in this respect.

ghostface147
Aug 14, 2008, 07:50 AM
While I agree 3g reception is where Apple needs to work on, my phone doesn't have a problem switching from 3g to EDGE. It has a problem dropping calls.

chadder007
Aug 14, 2008, 07:52 AM
Odd that Apple has gone backwards with reliability, since you would think it would only increase. Don't really care, I am so loving my 'old' 1st generation iPhone. I'll wait for a proper 2nd gen iPhone, not this 1.5 crap-fest that we were given.

-Scratch prone back: Check
-Crack prone back: Check
-25% increase in monthly bill: Check
-Dropped calls: Check
-Yellow screen: Check
-No pack in dock: Check
-Pathetically small 3G network: Check and double check

Agreed, Apple has been a POS here lately.

mrnick
Aug 14, 2008, 07:53 AM
I am a long time Vodafone Australia 'power user' with a monthly bill of $1K and above. I rarely had any issues with my HSDPA Mobile Broadband data card, 2G Blackberry or 3G voice device in all of the areas I travel to (mainly Sydney CBD and metro). I bought the iPhone 3G early on, and have consistent dropped calls, 'no service' in good service areas (i.e. all other VF devices still functioning without issue).

I get strange messages like 'PDP authentication' failed despite full bars and 3G on the screen.

If I do lose reception, only voice comes back... no data connection for Internet until I reset the Radio by switching the device on.

I have taken screen grabs with obscure error messages to the 'Genious Bar' at Apple store and they have no answers other than blaming the VF network and recommending a hard reset followed by a full restore (which I have done on numerous occasions).

I can be in a good coverage area and attempt 'call back' at least 8 or 9 times to get through to to the 'B' party.

I'm struggling to comprehend the poor quality of the Radio in this device, it's very much 1st generation 3G like I used 3 or 4 years ago.

It's not up to scratch when I compare it to other 2G and 3G devices of the same nature.

Also Data speeds - Wifi and 3G - I cannot get over 400 KBPS, yet often over achieve this on all other devices at the same time and same location.

Battery goes to 20% at 3pm daily with moderate usage and 10% by 5pm which is unacceptable next to a BlackBerry Pearl.

I'm on 2.1.01 software but no improvement...hopefully will be cured by later upgrades

dmelgar
Aug 14, 2008, 07:58 AM
I havent seen any issues with my iPhone. I have done extensive tests comparing to a motorola razr v9 which is an excellent reception phone.

I think people are typically making it up. Reception can always be better. AT&T network coverage is not that good. People love to nit pick apple products and this is no exception.

Unfortunately there will be no easy fix to appease people.

In my tests the iPhone does show fewer bars but gets reception at least as good as the v9. I do not have any more dropped calls on the iPhone than we do with the v9.

I guess it's possible that there are some problem units out there that may account for some of the complaints.

Maybe there's some particular scenario of network frequency or reception scenario such as multipath interferance which could be causing an issue in some cases where others do not experience issues.

I think reception of the phone is great. I wish safari didn't crash so often.

gpfradgley
Aug 14, 2008, 08:14 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_0_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5B108 Safari/525.20)

I live in a very good HSDPA area and I only get 1 bar on O2 UK with my iPhone. They is something wrong somewhere!!! Also exchange mail is useless as it does not push through as it did fine with my windows smart phone and blackberry. Apps crash. I've even forced a corporate policy on my device to see if this would make the software more stable fir my exchange connection. Apple sort it out!!! The iPhone is fantastic - just get the software right?!!!!

dmelgar
Aug 14, 2008, 08:16 AM
Also Data speeds - Wifi and 3G - I cannot get over 400 KBPS, yet often over achieve this on all other devices at the same time and same location.



With data speeds, I get as high as 1.63mbit/sec on 3g, typically 250kbps on edge if I get decent reception. Seems great to me. That's testing at testmyiphone.com.

Have you compared to other iPhone users or other 3g phones at the same time and place?

guzhogi
Aug 14, 2008, 08:16 AM
The exact problem with the Infineon chipset remains the subject of speculation, with one source claiming that the fault rests with the chipset struggling to keep up with the popularity and data consumption of the iPhone 3G. However, additional speculation suggests that Apple has been overly conservative with its software settings for determining whether the 3G signal and bandwidth is sufficient to support 3G functions at any given time.

Define "sufficient bandwidth." Does that mean you'll only get 10 KB/s or does Apple find 300 KB/s too slow?

This is good news. I have been getting speeds of around 400-500kb/s on O2 3G, but I wasn't sure if this was good or not. My home broadband Wi-Fi was giving a reading of around 600 even though I thought it was supposed to be 8Mbit*, so I trust those speed tests with a pinch of salt.* yes I know that the actual throughput is way lower than that but still...! :eek:

8Mbit ~ 800kb, so 600 isn't that bad.

Technically 8 Megabits = 1 Megabyte = 1024 Kilobytes (or sometimes 1000). Of course, in real life the actual throughput you'll get will depend on your distance from the source, interference, how good your wireless hardware is (antenna, etc.) on your device is, etc. But Zign is right, 600 KB/s is still pretty good. That's about what I get at home w/ my 8 Mb cable modem/wireless router.

Mydel
Aug 14, 2008, 08:20 AM
I havent seen any issues with my iPhone. I have done extensive tests comparing to a motorola razr v9 which is an excellent reception phone.

I think people are typically making it up. Reception can always be better. AT&T network coverage is not that good. People love to nit pick apple products and this is no exception.

Unfortunately there will be no easy fix to appease people.

In my tests the iPhone does show fewer bars but gets reception at least as good as the v9. I do not have any more dropped calls on the iPhone than we do with the v9.

I guess it's possible that there are some problem units out there that may account for some of the complaints.

Maybe there's some particular scenario of network frequency or reception scenario such as multipath interferance which could be causing an issue in some cases where others do not experience issues.

I think reception of the phone is great. I wish safari didn't crash so often.
Please remember. there are other providers than AT&T. I'm not nit picking. My crappy 3G is a fact. Im not complaining about speeds of 1G iPhone cos I know what I bought. But issues with network on 3G are unacceptable. They need to fix it either by software or recall. I do not care.

Xavier
Aug 14, 2008, 08:22 AM
This sounds like a major flaw to me. And if the hardware turns out to be defective... just imagine the massive recalls

Its, like the article mentions, probably a software issue and I hope that software updates all the crashes and bus I am experiencing

ph0rk
Aug 14, 2008, 08:25 AM
Never buy something straight after release, stuff like this is bound to happen.

It happened to the first gen iPhone, the iPod touch and now of course the iPhone 3G.

If you don't mind waiting ~1 year for the next revision, sure. I have bought many, many apple products on release (mostly by chance, not out of a need to have the latest and greatest), and would do so again.

taltal
Aug 14, 2008, 08:25 AM
this could be interesting as a piece of research/evidence:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__WIB_TdYbQ

user didio has just posted this on the apple forum. seems there is a large batch of defective phones - and some that work fine. this yould explain the flame wars going on between those who have the problem and those who think the iPain 3G shows excellent reception.

Jstick
Aug 14, 2008, 08:33 AM
all i know is if they secretly start selling new iphones with better hardware, i will be pissed.

ratbatblue
Aug 14, 2008, 08:35 AM
I havent seen any issues with my iPhone. I have done extensive tests comparing to a motorola razr v9 which is an excellent reception phone.

I think people are typically making it up. Reception can always be better. AT&T network coverage is not that good. People love to nit pick apple products and this is no exception.

Unfortunately there will be no easy fix to appease people.

In my tests the iPhone does show fewer bars but gets reception at least as good as the v9. I do not have any more dropped calls on the iPhone than we do with the v9.

I guess it's possible that there are some problem units out there that may account for some of the complaints.

Maybe there's some particular scenario of network frequency or reception scenario such as multipath interferance which could be causing an issue in some cases where others do not experience issues.

I think reception of the phone is great. I wish safari didn't crash so often.

"I'm fine, therefore everyone else must be making stuff up". Right. Every one of the thousands of complaints on the Apple discussion forums and this one and in CNET, etc. is made up by someone who can't wait to bash Apple. Personally, I'd rather be able to praise them to the heavens and have a phone that works right.

ph0rk
Aug 14, 2008, 08:37 AM
this could be interesting as a piece of research/evidence:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__WIB_TdYbQ

user didio has just posted this on the apple forum. seems there is a large batch of defective phones - and some that work fine. this yould explain the flame wars going on between those who have the problem and those who think the iPain 3G shows excellent reception.

Interesting. I wonder what happens if the two phones swap sim cards.

bdorpetzl
Aug 14, 2008, 08:42 AM
this could be interesting as a piece of research/evidence:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__WIB_TdYbQ

user didio has just posted this on the apple forum. seems there is a large batch of defective phones - and some that work fine. this yould explain the flame wars going on between those who have the problem and those who think the iPain 3G shows excellent reception.

I am assuming that you have had reception problems, is your experience comparable to that phone on the right that couldn't hold a signal at all? My experience has been much like the phone on the left, just the normal fluctuations associated with varying signal.

ph0rk
Aug 14, 2008, 08:43 AM
"I'm fine, therefore everyone else must be making stuff up". Right. Every one of the thousands of complaints on the Apple discussion forums and this one and in CNET, etc. is made up by someone who can't wait to bash Apple. Personally, I'd rather be able to praise them to the heavens and have a phone that works right.

It is a hard thing to test for most users. Would be good if there was a list of verified "good" reception spots in a given area - so I could, say, go to the corner of Franklin and MLK in Chapel Hill and if my iPhone has 3g trouble there, it is most likely the phone. If not, my phone, at least, is ok.

Then perhaps a list of serial numbers could be collected and some inference that isn't a complete waste could happen.

As it stands, I get better data usage out of 1 bar of 3g than 2 of edge. The phone reception is just as crappy in my hillside apartment as it was with edge.

If some really do have defective handsets, we need some method other than a stack of anecdotes to compile the issues. (And, preferably, a way for users to test it in some replicable way, i.e. not some hidden corner of their home).

Rotary8
Aug 14, 2008, 08:45 AM
this could be interesting as a piece of research/evidence:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__WIB_TdYbQ

user didio has just posted this on the apple forum. seems there is a large batch of defective phones - and some that work fine. this yould explain the flame wars going on between those who have the problem and those who think the iPain 3G shows excellent reception.

is he on a train? or stationary?

thecartoonguy
Aug 14, 2008, 08:47 AM
Agreed, Apple has been a POS here lately.

Yikes, I'm not sure if I should upgrade.

Diode
Aug 14, 2008, 08:52 AM
Sounds exactly like my problem .... Just today had to reset my phone in order to make a data connection. I live in a "high-density" 3G area.

mattster16
Aug 14, 2008, 08:55 AM
Makes me glad I decided to just keep my 1st gen iPhone that I bought on opening day. I haven't had a single issue with it in over a year. I'll be waiting until Apple releases the next model (or this phone breaks) to buy a 3G.

backspinner
Aug 14, 2008, 08:56 AM
is he on a train? or stationary?

in a car somewhere in the netherlands

dmelgar
Aug 14, 2008, 09:02 AM
It is a hard thing to test for most users. Would be good if there was a list of verified "good" reception spots in a given area - so I could, say, go to the corner of Franklin and MLK in Chapel Hill and if my iPhone has 3g trouble there, it is most likely the phone. If not, my phone, at least, is ok.

Then perhaps a list of serial numbers could be collected and some inference that isn't a complete waste could happen.

As it stands, I get better data usage out of 1 bar of 3g than 2 of edge. The phone reception is just as crappy in my hillside apartment as it was with edge.

If some really do have defective handsets, we need some method other than a stack of anecdotes to compile the issues. (And, preferably, a way for users to test it in some replicable way, i.e. not some hidden corner of their home).
Cellular coverage is a complex issue. Reception can vary dramatically within a short time even in the same spot. The number of coversations going on, other phones around, multipath interferance can all affect reception.

Comparing multiple phones in the same spot at the same time is the easiest test.

Rotary8
Aug 14, 2008, 09:03 AM
So essentially dropped calls occur when the iPhone switches from 3G to Edge or vice versa?

jazman
Aug 14, 2008, 09:07 AM
I think there will be a lot more problems like this as Apple continues to create new products and software in the secrecy that their accustomed. They can't have a lot of beta testers for fear of leaks so they have no clue how a product will work under various conditions. Take Google for example. They don't hide the existence of this new Android product so they are free to test it, delay it and test it some more.

Apple has the same problem with new software. Some of the most renowned FCP users never get to test the software. So when it drops, it's really buggy and needs immediate fixes because it corrupts After Effects or some other important tool in an editors arsenal. I think it's time for Apple to abandon that shroud of secrecy and make sure stuff works out the box. Wouldn't you rather know about a product in advance and it works, rather than be excited and surprised but it doesn't work?

DamnDJ
Aug 14, 2008, 09:10 AM
I just think it's weird how I sit at a traffic light and my bars go from 5 to 1 and then back to 5..

bigmc6000
Aug 14, 2008, 09:12 AM
Sounds exactly like my problem .... Just today had to reset my phone in order to make a data connection. I live in a "high-density" 3G area.

I've actually had that problem with my 1st iPhone. I haven't had it happen in a while but up until 2.0 it would still happen so I wouldn't be so quick to assume the 3G is any worse than the original iPhone circa v1.1

julric01
Aug 14, 2008, 09:16 AM
I think people are typically making it up. Reception can always be better. AT&T network coverage is not that good. People love to nit pick apple products and this is no exception.

Unfortunately there will be no easy fix to appease people.



I think it's almost rude to assume "people are typically making it up" - just as it's rude to think everyone is having the problem.

I can only share my experience. I tend to have to get on very long Conference Calls troubleshooting for work. I had one of the original iPhones, 2G, and I never had a problem with calls dropping. It was a rock solid performer.

Now that I have 3G, I can tell you for certain, there is a difference with this phone - and it's my 2nd 3G (the first had a home button issue) and neither one has performed nearly as good as my original iPhone.

Just yesterday I was on a call in Houston with Great 3G Coverage - travelling the same freeways I used to be on with my original iPhone - dropped the call 3 times - then had "call failed" about a dozen times trying to get back on. At one point I dropped the call immediately walking in to a store. I thought, ok fine, I'll wait until I come back out - came back out and the phone showed "no service" until I turned on Airplane mode and turned it back off. So, I'm in the middle of a lagre metro area, standing outside and I have to manually get the phone back on a network?

This is just one example of many - there is a problem with the phones I have received - maybe not all of them, but certainly mine. And I'm not Making it UP.

ph0rk
Aug 14, 2008, 09:26 AM
Cellular coverage is a complex issue. Reception can vary dramatically within a short time even in the same spot. The number of coversations going on, other phones around, multipath interferance can all affect reception.

Comparing multiple phones in the same spot at the same time is the easiest test.

So, iPhone reception parties?

taltal
Aug 14, 2008, 09:41 AM
So, iPhone reception parties?

somebody suggested this:

to get this a little more attention couldn't we organize a flashmob at a central spot, i.e. in NYC or all over the world, where at a given time a large number of people would pull out their iPhone 3Gs from their pocket and shout: "Hello? Apple? Can you hear me? Sorry, reception is bad. Can you hear me?"

like:
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=jwMj3PJDxuo


on http://fixmy3giphone.com/

rtdunham
Aug 14, 2008, 09:43 AM
... even worse, whenever I pull the phone outta my pocket, calls usually fail and I have to redial due to some sort of slow connectivity to the towers. This is very unacceptable.

I have the same problem with my first-gen iPhone: I have to leave it sitting on the counter in my kitchen, dial and then talk using BT. Pick up the phone, and the call's usually dropped. Tower problem, ATT says; we're working to fix it, ATT says; it's been almost a year now with every month-or-so-calls to report the problem.

Diode
Aug 14, 2008, 09:46 AM
I've actually had that problem with my 1st iPhone. I haven't had it happen in a while but up until 2.0 it would still happen so I wouldn't be so quick to assume the 3G is any worse than the original iPhone circa v1.1

Well coupled with the wild signal fluctuation and dropped calls I would say it's a problem.

HyperZboy
Aug 14, 2008, 09:50 AM
Anyone who has either a Mac or PC ATI Radeon 9800 video card w/ Infineon memory will attest to what I'm talking about here..... Infineon is nothing but a junk memory seller and it would not surprise me in the least that their chipset failed to meet Apple's required specs.

I don't have an iPhone 3G, only a 2G iPhone, but from my expertise in video graphics cards, I'll be the first to testify that INFINEON sells junk memory that rarely hits spec so my prediction is that this turns out to NOT be a software problem at all, but hardware that Apple will have to re-write software to work around the not so up to spec hardware that Apple requested. That's my prediction.

If this is the case, Apple will be on them like, well, you know what. :D

ph0rk
Aug 14, 2008, 09:52 AM
somebody suggested this:



on http://fixmy3giphone.com/

That isn't really what I meant - my phone works. Rather, a way to gather and compare your iphone 3g's reception to someone else's.

sirherbert
Aug 14, 2008, 09:54 AM
Without reading through the post, I have to say +1, and I'd also say its definitely hardware-related. Could be aggravated by heavy usage, but I live in Finland with polar bears roaming the streets of the capital, not iPhone users. AND, I tried the same SIM-card with my Nokia E60 and I get 100% reception, that's 5/5, whereas with my iPhone 3G I get 1/5 or 2/5 of 3G, and sometimes even less. The local carrier tried to mix me up by stating that I'm living outside of coverage, but as I said, I tried the SIM-card with a Nokia and it worked AOK. It is definitely iPhone related.

Well, could be that the software is just picky, but hey, if 100% turns into 20-40%, that's REALLY picky!

ph0rk
Aug 14, 2008, 09:58 AM
Without reading through the post, I have to say +1, and I'd also say its definitely hardware-related. Could be aggravated by heavy usage, but I live in Finland with polar bears roaming the streets of the capital, not iPhone users. AND, I tried the same SIM-card with my Nokia E60 and I get 100% reception, that's 5/5, whereas with my iPhone 3G I get 1/5 or 2/5 of 3G, and sometimes even less. The local carrier tried to mix me up by stating that I'm living outside of coverage, but as I said, I tried the SIM-card with a Nokia and it worked AOK. It is definitely iPhone related.

Well, could be that the software is just picky, but hey, if 100% turns into 20-40%, that's REALLY picky!

I wouldn't put much stock in the bars - I've made calls when the indicator claimed No Service, and speed tested at 450 kbps with 1 bar. It seems to be a slow-update running average or something similar. By contrast, older edge nokias I've had got quite flaky at the 2 bar range.

PowerFullMac
Aug 14, 2008, 10:10 AM
What was wrong with the first gen iPhone?

When it first came out it had issues with not being able to hear what people where saying to you (the speaker was broken) and, ironically, connection problems!

mobilehavoc
Aug 14, 2008, 10:13 AM
Whatever the issue is, I'm not buying an iPhone 3G until you're guaranteed that the current production run/stock has been resolved either via software or hardware change.

Also, being a Nokia N78 owner and a previous iPhone 2G, Blackberry, WinMo owner...comparing signal reception on any mobile device to a Nokia is like comparing a Kia to a Ferrari.

Nokias are the kings of reception/call quality.

From what I remember, a lot of the cell towers in the world use Nokia hardware. :D

iMACTASTIC
Aug 14, 2008, 10:25 AM
Sticking with the original iPhone for now. Cracking cases and 3G issues should be worked out by the next Rev.

I havent returned my cracked case phone yet only because im wondering if I wait and they do make an update on the chip set I will be better off down the road. Also though I am wondering if I do return it I will just get an older iphone refurb.....

iMACTASTIC
Aug 14, 2008, 10:31 AM
All i know is I have lost more calls in the 3 weeks I have had with this 3g than i had in total in my 12 years with sprint. I thought it was just the network. Now im wondering. I will say this though. being able to have this phone in my pocket vs having to lug my laptop around is priceless.

quigleybc
Aug 14, 2008, 10:32 AM
so far so good for me in Vancouver


no dropped calls ever, the phone part of the phone is great!

3G works great

fast and speedy

it's the apps that drive me nuts. Crashing all the time.

but overall, the phone works as advertised for me
:)

Rot'nApple
Aug 14, 2008, 10:34 AM
What was wrong with the first gen iPhone?

From the complaints I heard, too expensive and not 3G.

Now it's cheaper, in price and appears in some cases, quality, and now has the highly touted 3G, that, from complaints I've read, people have problems obtaining or maintaining. :rolleyes:

Some people I've read, are happy they stuck with 1st gen iPhone, while others are good with iPhone 3G. As for me, I am awaiting the iPhone Steve Jobs dreamed of and these first two iterations of iPhones are just the test case on the way to THE iPhone Steve talked about. :D

Rot'nApple
Aug 14, 2008, 10:40 AM
is he on a train? or stationary?
Sounded like a jet took off near the end, maybe he was at an airport? :confused:

Rot'nApple
Aug 14, 2008, 10:43 AM
I just think it's weird how I sit at a traffic light and my bars go from 5 to 1 and then back to 5..

'The answer my friend, is blowin in the wind, the answer is blowing in the wind...'

Just be thankful I didn't actually sing it! ;)

lazyrighteye
Aug 14, 2008, 10:54 AM
Makes me glad I decided to just keep my 1st gen iPhone that I bought on opening day. I haven't had a single issue with it in over a year. I'll be waiting until Apple releases the next model (or this phone breaks) to buy a 3G.

Then you must not be running the latest OS on your iPhone.

Sure, Apps are neat and hold some legit potential, but not at the price we are paying for basic functionality.
Wish I hadn't upgraded.
App Store & mass email delete has not worth it. At all.

I have an original launch day iPhone.
Best/coolest device I had ever owned/used.
Had zero issues until 2.0.
Since upgrading, the thing is painfully slow to react to input (often times seeing upwards of 20 seconds before [say] SMS is available to receive any input). Massive lag between switching screens... typing is abysmal... lots of apps (OS apps, not just APP Store apps) crashing... every time I plug in my iPhone to iTunes (latest version) I only have an option to Restore. The list goes on and on and...
And let's not even addressing the MobileMe fiasco. Nightmare.

I had planned on setting up my wife with this device and upgrading to 3G. But there is no way I am pawning off such a frustrating user experience to her. Still in shock that there is an Apple product I can't recommend.
So weird. Usually the exact opposite.

To think I would honestly advise her to continue using her cracked screen (touch input no longer works) Treo 650, on VZW network, over a year-old iPhone... just blows my mind.

What is the world is going on in Cupertino?!?

GET IT FIXED, APPLE.

lazyrighteye
Aug 14, 2008, 10:56 AM
I think there will be a lot more problems like this as Apple continues to create new products and software in the secrecy that their accustomed. They can't have a lot of beta testers for fear of leaks so they have no clue how a product will work under various conditions. Take Google for example. They don't hide the existence of this new Android product so they are free to test it, delay it and test it some more.

Apple has the same problem with new software. Some of the most renowned FCP users never get to test the software. So when it drops, it's really buggy and needs immediate fixes because it corrupts After Effects or some other important tool in an editors arsenal. I think it's time for Apple to abandon that shroud of secrecy and make sure stuff works out the box. Wouldn't you rather know about a product in advance and it works, rather than be excited and surprised but it doesn't work?

This is an excellent point.

MacTheSpoon
Aug 14, 2008, 11:11 AM
this could be interesting as a piece of research/evidence:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__WIB_TdYbQ

user didio has just posted this on the apple forum. seems there is a large batch of defective phones - and some that work fine. this yould explain the flame wars going on between those who have the problem and those who think the iPain 3G shows excellent reception.

Very interesting! This definitely makes me think there is a bad batch of chips out there. Unless some of the third-party software installed on the badly performing iPhone is to blame somehow.

igazza
Aug 14, 2008, 11:12 AM
my iphone is really buggy not something you expect from apple :(

Iron Chef
Aug 14, 2008, 11:13 AM
Interesting point made by someone earlier about the placebo/halo effect of doing a software update. I remember when 2.0.1, there were so many twitter and forum posts about how "they finally fixed it." I think really it was about the fact that they got all of us to just do a restore on our phones, which is what they recommended in the first place as a fix for a laggy iphone...

But now, it seems like that placebo effect has worn off and people are seeing that it's pretty much got the same issues. I personally am still experiencing occasional keyboard lag with text as well as lag in general. I will say though that I am not experiencing random App crashes anymore.

I am having 3G connectivity issues just like everyone else.

One observation I do want to put out there is that when my iPhone 3G is connected to the charger, the thing performs beautifully and seamlessly. Maybe the way the battery power is being allotted to the functions in the iPhone are too blame??

I wouldn't put it past Apple to do a software update to address the issues to get some good PR again. But my gut is telling me that it's also hardware related, which means Apple will quietly switch it out.

Remember with the original iPhone how so many people were complaining about the speakerphone being ridiculously quiet? I had to get mine replaced for an unrelated issue in March (I bought my original iphone in November 2007) and I noticed the speakerphone was so much louder. I asked others who got refurbs in a similar time frame and they noted the same thing....

nemaslov
Aug 14, 2008, 11:35 AM
Agreed 100%. I think we made the right choice for now...

and I agree 200%. It's the original iPhone for me. The battery alone issue. It lasts me all day into the night with frequent use. My 3G friends die out mid afternoon.

PowerFullMac
Aug 14, 2008, 11:43 AM
Was just thinking this problem could be the reason for this. (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=oaN1Nz1Dyls)

MacSlut
Aug 14, 2008, 11:47 AM
As a former manager of one of the largest Apple service centers, I get a little tweaked when I read posts that arrogantly state, "You should wait until Rev C for any Apple product".

There are very few Rev C products from Apple. Almost always, Rev B or C... represent speed bumps or other configuration changes like RAM or disk capacity. I've even witnessed times where Rev A was fine, but service advisories were issues for subsequent Revs.

Furthermore, it's highly unlikely that we'll see even a Rev B of the iPhone. It's worth noting that the 1st generation iPhone never had a Rev B, and Apple has already ordered or manufactured a significant percentage of the iPhones it will sell through the end of the year.

Bottom line is that this can either be resolved through software, or if there's something that is done with the hardware, it will involve 10 million + iPhones.

nickpro
Aug 14, 2008, 11:48 AM
Sticking with the original iPhone for now. Cracking cases and 3G issues should be worked out by the next Rev.

yuuuuuuuuuuup

PowerFullMac
Aug 14, 2008, 11:49 AM
Bottom line is that this can either be resolved through software, or if there's something that is done with the hardware, it will involve 10 million + iPhones.

Which is super bad news for Apple!

emccus01
Aug 14, 2008, 11:51 AM
So essentially dropped calls occur when the iPhone switches from 3G to Edge or vice versa?

Yes that is pretty much my only problem. Occurs while driving.

jdee2wheels
Aug 14, 2008, 12:14 PM
As a former manager of one of the largest Apple service centers, I get a little tweaked when I read posts that arrogantly state, "You should wait until Rev C for any Apple product".

There are very few Rev C products from Apple. Almost always, Rev B or C... represent speed bumps or other configuration changes like RAM or disk capacity. I've even witnessed times where Rev A was fine, but service advisories were issues for subsequent Revs.

Furthermore, it's highly unlikely that we'll see even a Rev B of the iPhone. It's worth noting that the 1st generation iPhone never had a Rev B, and Apple has already ordered or manufactured a significant percentage of the iPhones it will sell through the end of the year.

Bottom line is that this can either be resolved through software, or if there's something that is done with the hardware, it will involve 10 million + iPhones.

Apple almost certainly implements silent fixes and tweaks on the fly. Everyone who works in manufacturing knows that changes are often made between batches to fix problems, regardless of rev# changes or not. Bottom line is it's much safer to wait a few months to purchase something that was just released...regardless of what it is.

edinburghmac
Aug 14, 2008, 12:21 PM
I bought an iPhone 3G on the day of release - I didn't think the original iPhone was value for money and was crippled by lack of 3G connectivity. The experience I have had so far has been unparalleled in my experience with Apple products (and I've had a few - Performa 5400, Blueberry iMac 333, Pismo PowerBook (stolen), 1st Gen TiBook, 10GB 1st Gen iPod, iMacG5, 5G iPod and C2D MacBook personally, as well as Quadra AV840, Beige PowerMac G3, PowerMac G4 733 DA and MacPro Dual Quad 3Ghz at work). I got the 8GB 3G iPhone (99) from CarPhone Warehouse and the 30 plan from O2 and apart from the wait for the inexperienced assistant to authorise my credit card, it was a smooth process and took less than 30 min total from walking up to the shop. When I got home, opened up my iPhone and inserted my O2 SIM card it activated at the fourth attempt from iTunes (this was the evening of the world wide launch and probably early morning - mid afternoon in the USA, so I guess the servers were a touch busy). I got the hang of the phone really quickly, set it up for WiFi access on my home network and had soon downloaded a half-dozen apps from the App store. I've used the phone ever since with no dropped calls and only a single freeze (on v.2.0.0 while using the LastFM app). I just set up telekinesis from Google to allow remote access of my work machine as well as media streaming from my iTunes library hosted on my AirDisk at home. In the meantime my wife and stepson have been having network coverage issues with Orange where they haven't been able to reliably make calls or receive texts without leaving the house. My stepson had upgraded his phone to a Nokia N95 a month before I got my iPhone and hasn't even been able to set up WiFi on his phone yet. So in conclusion, I have to say that while I've owned some great Apple products in the past my experience with the iPhone 3G is that this is the first 'insanely great' Apple product that I've ever owned.

branjosef
Aug 14, 2008, 12:23 PM
Right now for me the biggest problem I have with the 3G iphone is the damn software. It is sooo slow and the contacts app sucks. Sometimes, I will go to send a text message, and it will take forever to type anything as there is a huge lag with the keyboard. With all that said- I am inclined to believe its a software problem. I don't see how they screwed all this up. 1.1.4 worked great and you would think that 2.0.1 would work just as good. Ive been pondering on just installing 1.1.4 on my 3G iphone- but hoping apple will issue and update that will fix this. I feel like I bought the phone version of a commodore vic 20.

SlyMac
Aug 14, 2008, 12:28 PM
I am in Houston and have the 3G iphone and get horrible 3g reception in and out of the house. Whats worse is that i compared it with a friends 3g smartphone with ATT right next to mine and his showed 4 beautiful 3g bars, mine was waving between no bars and 1 little bar.

When I put my sim card in his phone, it showed the same 4 bars. Then I put it back in my iphone and got 1 bar (he put his sim in and got the same result as me).

Conclusion-

The iphone is the problem. I hope that it is just in need of a software update. I'm paying 30.00 per month for 3G data that I dont have (but the coverage map says im right in the middle of the houston 3G network).

Down with :apple:!!!!!!!!! (At least until this is fixed)

Iron Chef
Aug 14, 2008, 12:40 PM
If its found to be a hardware problem, is Apple legally obligated to recall every iPhone 3G and replace them for free? Or would we have to organize a class action lawsuit?

dizzy13
Aug 14, 2008, 12:43 PM
I live in Miami and I get a really good 3g signal most of the time. Speeds vary, but I have topped out at close to 1.5mbits.

I think Miami is good area to have an iPhone because...

1) There is good 3g coverage because is a big city (yeah, we even have a real downtown with big buildings and stuff now!)

2) Even though florida is known for its older population, its not as big in teh south florida area, but even the younger crowd just isn't that much into technology compared to cities like NYC, San Fran, etc. so there is plenty of signal to go around :)

3) Its flat here! So no mountains or anything getting in the way of my precious 3g signal

Trajectory
Aug 14, 2008, 12:48 PM
Geez, I hope this can be fixed with software fixes, otherwise, Apple is going to learn a very expensive lesson if it has to recall every phone.

I havent seen any issues with my iPhone... I think people are typically making it up.

Making it up?? That'll go over well here.

Makes me glad I decided to just keep my 1st gen iPhone that I bought on opening day. I haven't had a single issue with it in over a year.

Yes, because the first iPhone worked flawlessly from day one, didn't it?? :rolleyes:

dmelgar
Aug 14, 2008, 01:10 PM
I think it's almost rude to assume "people are typically making it up" - just as it's rude to think everyone is having the problem.

I can only share my experience. I tend to have to get on very long Conference Calls troubleshooting for work. I had one of the original iPhones, 2G, and I never had a problem with calls dropping. It was a rock solid performer.

Now that I have 3G, I can tell you for certain, there is a difference with this phone - and it's my 2nd 3G (the first had a home button issue) and neither one has performed nearly as good as my original iPhone.

Just yesterday I was on a call in Houston with Great 3G Coverage - travelling the same freeways I used to be on with my original iPhone - dropped the call 3 times - then had "call failed" about a dozen times trying to get back on. At one point I dropped the call immediately walking in to a store. I thought, ok fine, I'll wait until I come back out - came back out and the phone showed "no service" until I turned on Airplane mode and turned it back off. So, I'm in the middle of a lagre metro area, standing outside and I have to manually get the phone back on a network?

This is just one example of many - there is a problem with the phones I have received - maybe not all of them, but certainly mine. And I'm not Making it UP.
I am not that impressed with the AT&T network. I wonder how many issues are just network coverage issues.

You can't compare the 2g iPhone to 3g iPhone making 3g calls. The networks are seperate and independent. You can very easily be in a place with great gsm coverage but poor or no 3g coverage. To make a reasonable comparison between the 2g and 3g iPhone you need to turn off 3g on the 3g iPhone. Most reports are that the new 3g iPhone gets better gsm reception than the 2g iPhone.

And my motorola v9 will report 5bars 3g then suddenly go to 1 bar or even no service. I don't quite understand what's up with that. My sprint phones did not experience that sort of behavior. My area uses 1900mhz for both AT&T gsm and 3g and sprint.

I am in a maringally poor coverage area so maybe the problem needs a strong crowded 3g area to surface itself?

dmelgar
Aug 14, 2008, 01:19 PM
If its found to be a hardware problem, is Apple legally obligated to recall every iPhone 3G and replace them for free? Or would we have to organize a class action lawsuit?

funny how the complaints can drown out folks that do not have a problem.

You have multiple people stating that we have no problem, yet multiple people are insistent on panicing that every iPhone needs to be recalled. The sky is falling!!!

michael31986
Aug 14, 2008, 01:25 PM
it is probably just a software update that is needed. i get 5 bars of 3g on the main ave in my town, which is like 2 blocks away from my house and i get like 3 bars of 3g in my house. if it was the chip i would barely get 3g.

nagromme
Aug 14, 2008, 01:27 PM
Even if it's a small percentage of calls that have problems, a few annecdotes I've seen may suggest that those drops are concentrated on certain phones (or in certain areas): so most people get AT&Ts usual connection reliability, while a few get much worse. Of course, forum postings aren't evidence of how widespread the problem is, but I'd rather see Apple pay needless attention to a NON-issue (and address the few problem cases individually) than overlook a real problem!

Note, according to Daring Fireball, "Nomura analyst Richard Windsor," who started this media storm (and seems to be the source of fears that only an internal hardware change might help), is the same guy who started a blatantly fictitious report of hardware problems with the FIRST iPhone: an "increasing" wave of dead spots on Apple touch screens.

Like Windsor's 3G/Infineon report, his iPhone scare last year was packed with convincing-sounding technical and business details--which were entirely false. He said that iPhones use a chemical film on top of the glass that senses heat to detect touch, using technology from a Finnish company,and that this film breaks down several months after purchase. Awfully detailed and convincing! Better not buy an iPhone!

Of course, iPhones have NOTHING on top of the glass to break down, and don't use heat at all, and it takes no effort at all to uncover those facts. Windsor's FUD re touchscreens had to have been intentional--it's hard to imagine mere incompetence leading to such detailed false info.

See:
http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/20070810/iphone-deadspot/

So, I take Windsor's latest claim with salt. A problem exists, at least for some small number. How many? Who knows--it's only natural to post when you have a problem and not when you don't. But fears that it needs a hardware change seem to come from Windsor, so that's the detail should not be taken too seriously without more evidence.

I hold out hope for a software fix, and will watch the issue with interest before I buy my 3G.

Stately
Aug 14, 2008, 01:27 PM
I am ashamed to have to admit I am having a bunch of little issues, but issues none the less with the iphone 3G. The reason for the shame . . I was firm against purchasing the new iphone because I love the original and did not plan to switch up by any means. I feel it is perfect and besides the whole overhyped 3G thing and GPS it doesn't add anything to the pot. The form factor of and the materials used on the original were better and looked classier; it even felt good in the hand. I love my phone and took it everywhere, sigh. I was shaving and had a bottle of rubbing alcohol on the little shelf next to me . . . and my phone. The bottle was open because I was going to use it soon. It must have tipped over and it soaked my iphone through and through and when I say through I mean through. I am so not in love with the iphone 3G and the following comment is not biased. I was not and am still not moved by the iphone 3G network or GPS and it is hype as I thought it would be. If you have the original iphone, stick with it; you have a great thing in it. The GPS is cool I guess but the 3G network hardly ever gets a connection to work anyway so I use edge all the time. Talk about defeating the purpose . . Take care everyone. Hope this helps someone.
:cool::apple:

pohl
Aug 14, 2008, 01:39 PM
The root of all this trouble is Apple's battery fascism. They're so obsessed with conserving power that they compromise functionality in all sorts of ways just to make the battery time figure look decent.

It's a 3G phone, it's a browser, it's a mail client, it's a calendar, it's a GPS unit, it's a music jukebox, it's your TV and your movie screen, it's a gaming platform -- basically it's everything you need to be entertained, connected and informed 24 hrs a day. Just make sure you don't actually use it for any of these things, or you'll run out of power in no time. Or, make sure to stay near a USB dock or wall outlet at all times. Who wants mobility, right?


There's a contradiction between these two paragraphs. Do you want them to make a tradeoff towards battery life or away from it? The first paragraph suggests you want the latter, and the second suggests that you want the former.

My battery life is awesome on my 1st gen. Do people who complain about battery life keep their brightness cranked all the up? Do they keep wifi on all the time, even when they know they don't need it? It's not hard to save a little juice, in my experience.

voicegy
Aug 14, 2008, 01:40 PM
I have been obsessed with 3G iPhone "issue" news over the past month and have read everything, everywhere about the reception/dropped calls/bad handover to EDGE problems that SOME 3G iPhone users are experiencing.

My conclusion to date is that there are a combination of things going on: please note, I still have my first gen. iPhone and have been/continue to be happy with it.

In Australia (where there is much discussion going on) users seem to have narrowed down the issue to one of MHz from the carrier - iPhone problems ONLY seem to happen on the 2100 MHz networks, Optus and Voda. Almost no complaints have come from Telstra users (850 MHz).

In Oregon, a manager (or regional manager) at an AT&T store shared with a dissatisfied customer that he believes Apple "went cheap on their chips" thus creating reception issues, so in an effort to "fix what Apple did" they are switching over to all 850 MHz. They weren't sure if it was going to be dual 1900/850 or just 850. They just knew, without a doubt that come September 30Th, 3G signals on the west side of Portland Oregon "would be booming."

As this whole 3G iPhone story gets more exposure on major web sites, what is starting to bubble up are cooberating reports that point to the following:

1. Networks using 2100 MHz cause issues.
2. The 3G iPhone "chipset" exacerbates those issues.
3. An eventual update will "fix" the alleged "chipset issue."

Which brings up a fascinating scenario: As Apple and various carriers work behind the scenes to address the MHz "issue," Apple is also working on "updates" to provide an eventual "fix." Apple may also have noticed this issue early on, and has since "retooled" 3G iPhones physically in some way to provide better reception. Or not.

I just think as all of the above come together at one magical moment, thousands of customers will experience the higher level of performance that they are currently not. I might even go so far as to say that, taking the Oregon case above, that while AT&T is furiously changing over the MHz coverage, Apple will time that with an update - and the update will be seen as the "fix" for the reception issue.

With no actual admission from Apple, it's all speculation. But due to the diligence of Apple enthusiasts worldwide, it seems the community itself is hearing of and coming up with some pretty fascinating stuff - and the field is narrowing greatly as to causation.

It's been an interesting situation to watch, to say the least.

(Credit where credit is due: http://www.fixmy3giphone.com/ )

Stately
Aug 14, 2008, 01:51 PM
[QUOTE=jazman;6038390]I think there will be a lot more problems like this as Apple continues to create new products and software in the secrecy that their accustomed. They can't have a lot of beta testers for fear of leaks so they have no clue how a product will work under various conditions. Take Google for example. They don't hide the existence of this new Android product so they are free to test it, delay it and test it some more.



You aren't serious right? Google? Android? Whatever. All the announcement of that nonsense was in comparison like a jealous kid trying to act as if he could do what the other kid could do well and "naturally" and doing it all wrong and not caring just cause they prefer negative attention as opposed to none. That announcement came right after the announcement of the iphone and dude was all sweating and nervous and you could tell he was wishing he thought of creating something so well thought out and promising. The same thing with this clown rick rubin and the ipod/iphone thing. He was saying "Oh I thought of something, we could make like a music player thingy that can be taken with you and plugged in to things when you arrive places.." What the heck? people need to stop being sore loosers. It's no wonder Steve keeps things under wraps, I would too, because the level of immaturity that surfaces when others succeed is appalling.
:cool:

gibbz
Aug 14, 2008, 01:53 PM
You can submit your experiences here:
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=5578646

automatickyle
Aug 14, 2008, 02:11 PM
Oh wow, that wouldn't be good for Apple to have that air. I hope they really start looking into this to get it solved. I am hoping all it is is a software issue.

Glideslope
Aug 14, 2008, 02:23 PM
Well, I think the software solution is most likely. I can understand the huge load placed on networks with the rapid addition of these 3G phones.

I live in one of New York's smaller cities with at&t 3G. On the drive in there is an exact point where the phone goes from Edge to 3G.

During the week as I pass through this area I will get about a minute of lower quality reception, sometimes static, then back to a nice connection on 3G.

If I drive into the city on a Sunday none of the above happens in this area. I have tested many times.

So, IMO if your in a very busy Metro Area the phone could easily say, "not enough bandwidth, time to drop."

Lets not forget we are on at&t's network. We ain't talking BMW here.

Anyway, just MO. I'm not an EE.

gugy
Aug 14, 2008, 02:37 PM
I smell recall,

Oh my, that will be really bad for Apple.:eek:

My iPhone is OK, but lately, I have calls being dropped. Not sure why. Since I am in huge metropolitan areas.

earnjam
Aug 14, 2008, 02:45 PM
I posted this when everyone was clamoring about the 7 series screens not being good. I'm not saying that there aren't signal issues with the new 3G iPhone, but interesting nonetheless as more and more people claim to have problems.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Windshield_Pitting_Epidemic

OMG, I'VE GOT PITS ON MY WINDSHIELD TOO!!!
(they've always been there)

Mr. Zorg
Aug 14, 2008, 03:01 PM
This is good news. I have been getting speeds of around 400-500kb/s on O2 3G, but I wasn't sure if this was good or not. My home broadband Wi-Fi was giving a reading of around 600 even though I thought it was supposed to be 8Mbit*, so I trust those speed tests with a pinch of salt.

I've never had any cracking issues or problems with my iPhone 3G. The battery could be better.


* yes I know that the actual throughput is way lower than that but still...! :eek:
Some of the speed test results on wifi is caused by the lower horsepower of the iPhone CPU versus your laptop (desktop, whatever)... But I routinely clock 4mb/s on iPhone wifi over my 10mb/s connection. The best I've seen on 3G here (California, USA) is 1.5mb/s. More typically I get the same 400 - 500kb/s you report, which is a darn sight better than the maximum 170kb/s I would get on the older EDGE network. My chief complaint is the wildly fluctuating signal strength, but I am in a major metropolitan area, so their explanation makes sense.

marksman
Aug 14, 2008, 03:11 PM
this could be interesting as a piece of research/evidence:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__WIB_TdYbQ

What a great comparison of T-MOBILE.

Seriously...

Until AT&T buys T-Mobile there is no authorized use of T-Mobile and the 3G iPhone. Dido is clearly missing an i and a t from his name.

It takes 5 seconds to see he is breaking any reasonable troubleshooting methodology in existance. IE whatever he is up to is a waste of time and is certainly not worthy of any consideration.

Davidkoh
Aug 14, 2008, 03:12 PM
I went to the Telia Store (the cell provider in Sweden that sells the iPhone) today and showed them how my phone just tried to connect whenever I tried to surf. They sent it off to their service center or whatever for repairs, he said it would most likely be replaced instead of repaired :) If thats the case I will try to convince them to give me the 16 Gb one with a little money inbetween. Since my data been bad for the better part of a month :)

Davidkoh
Aug 14, 2008, 03:15 PM
What a great comparison of T-MOBILE.

Seriously...

Until AT&T buys T-Mobile there is no authorized use of T-Mobile and the 3G iPhone. Dido is clearly missing an i and a t from his name.

It takes 5 seconds to see he is breaking any reasonable troubleshooting methodology in existance. IE whatever he is up to is a waste of time and is certainly not worthy of any consideration.

You do know that T-Mobile is the provider that sells iPhone 3G don't you?

8CoreWhore
Aug 14, 2008, 03:20 PM
http://tinyurl.com/5fsx6x

manhattanboy
Aug 14, 2008, 04:13 PM
You can submit your experiences here:
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=5578646

thanks for that... I just submitted my bad experience.

aristotle
Aug 14, 2008, 04:54 PM
Even if it's a small percentage of calls that have problems, a few annecdotes I've seen may suggest that those drops are concentrated on certain phones (or in certain areas): so most people get AT&Ts usual connection reliability, while a few get much worse. Of course, forum postings aren't evidence of how widespread the problem is, but I'd rather see Apple pay needless attention to a NON-issue (and address the few problem cases individually) than overlook a real problem!

Note, according to Daring Fireball, "Nomura analyst Richard Windsor," who started this media storm (and seems to be the source of fears that only an internal hardware change might help), is the same guy who started a blatantly fictitious report of hardware problems with the FIRST iPhone: an "increasing" wave of dead spots on Apple touch screens.

Like Windsor's 3G/Infineon report, his iPhone scare last year was packed with convincing-sounding technical and business details--which were entirely false. He said that iPhones use a chemical film on top of the glass that senses heat to detect touch, using technology from a Finnish company,and that this film breaks down several months after purchase. Awfully detailed and convincing! Better not buy an iPhone!

Of course, iPhones have NOTHING on top of the glass to break down, and don't use heat at all, and it takes no effort at all to uncover those facts. Windsor's FUD re touchscreens had to have been intentional--it's hard to imagine mere incompetence leading to such detailed false info.

See:
http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/20070810/iphone-deadspot/

So, I take Windsor's latest claim with salt. A problem exists, at least for some small number. How many? Who knows--it's only natural to post when you have a problem and not when you don't. But fears that it needs a hardware change seem to come from Windsor, so that's the detail should not be taken too seriously without more evidence.

I hold out hope for a software fix, and will watch the issue with interest before I buy my 3G.
Thank for that. There may indeed be some software problems with how the iPhone hands off from 3G to Edge but given that Canadians and UK users are generally having a good experience and given that there were issues in Canada that were fixed by the provider directly, I would tend to believe that AT&T and T-mobile (Netherlands) are partly to blame here in how they configured their towers.

We should be careful to take the word of a known fraud at face value. I believe this Richard Windsor is an opportunist and shyster.

I see a lot of talk about lawsuits. If this Richard guy turns out to be a fraud again, people should be suing him for causing a panic.

MacinDoc
Aug 14, 2008, 05:04 PM
The only place I have had a dropped call was in an underground hospital parking lot in Calgary, Alberta, and somewhere in the middle of nowhere in the Rocky Mountains. No dropped calls elsewhere in Alberta or British Columbia. 3G in all cities I have visited in Alberta and British Columbia, Edge in smaller towns.

aimfire
Aug 14, 2008, 05:19 PM
What a great comparison of T-MOBILE.

Seriously...

Until AT&T buys T-Mobile there is no authorized use of T-Mobile and the 3G iPhone. Dido is clearly missing an i and a t from his name.
Look before you leap... The guy in the video is not from the USA... :rolleyes:

justiny
Aug 14, 2008, 05:21 PM
What a great comparison of T-MOBILE.

Seriously...

Until AT&T buys T-Mobile there is no authorized use of T-Mobile and the 3G iPhone. Dido is clearly missing an i and a t from his name.

If anyone is an idiot here, it's you.

seedster2
Aug 14, 2008, 06:01 PM
What a great comparison of T-MOBILE.

Seriously...

Until AT&T buys T-Mobile there is no authorized use of T-Mobile and the 3G iPhone. Dido is clearly missing an i and a t from his name.

It takes 5 seconds to see he is breaking any reasonable troubleshooting methodology in existance. IE whatever he is up to is a waste of time and is certainly not worthy of any consideration.

You really made a fool of yourself:D

There are other authorized carriers outside of the United States. T-Mobile is certainly one of them.

voicegy
Aug 14, 2008, 06:25 PM
Doug Clements, the originator of "the thread that started it all" over at the Apple discussion board, seemingly will be interviewed by ABC regarding the 3G iPhone reception issue:

"Hello All,

I was contacted by ABC to do an interview regarding the iPhones 3G reception issues. I accepted to do the interview. I will be discussing how "we" (my family & others) were able to fix the issue. And we now have a great product in our hands!

However, a lot of people are still having problems. I will talk about how Apple deletes my posts (ones that are not pro Apple or that question reliability)... and why is Apple still remaining so silent?

As I was typing this, I received the call...

Look for my interview with ABC!!

Thanks,
Doug"

His thread discussion is titled "iPhone 3G Reception Problems? You're Not Alone" and has attracted so many viewers and comments that the thread has already been broken up twice due to length.

Share your own thoughts with ABC news:
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/AheadoftheCurve/story?id=5578646

Rotary8
Aug 14, 2008, 06:36 PM
i've been lucky so far. Only time I had a dropped call was in the stairwell of my office building, always known to have poor reception there. I don't make enough phone calls to really say my iphone has issues. I will however note this observation, my internet stops loading pages on the train when it's switching between edge and 3G.

My iPhone 3G is just over a week old, I'll definitely be aware of it whenever my iphone starts dropping calls.

gcmexico
Aug 14, 2008, 06:57 PM
interesting...my 3g is fine and I live in the city..but today I was by Wall Street, the connection was all over the place...for the first time I got frustrated with the iphone!

mobi
Aug 14, 2008, 06:59 PM
2 iPhone 3G's over here... White 16g & Black 16g. No case cracking or flaws. They were "skinned" out of the box. The 1 battery is a little flaky, but still testing. The only place thus far with bad reception was the grocery store.

icoffee
Aug 14, 2008, 07:56 PM
this could be interesting as a piece of research/evidence:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__WIB_TdYbQ

user didio has just posted this on the apple forum. seems there is a large batch of defective phones - and some that work fine. this yould explain the flame wars going on between those who have the problem and those who think the iPain 3G shows excellent reception.

That video is interesting but not a good comparison for 2 reasons: The phones are too close together to rule out any interference and both phones have different apps loaded.

twoodcc
Aug 14, 2008, 07:56 PM
well i'm glad to see that Apple is working on the issue. i'm sure they'll get it fixed

isoceles
Aug 14, 2008, 11:24 PM
interesting...my 3g is fine and I live in the city..but today I was by Wall Street, the connection was all over the place...for the first time I got frustrated with the iphone!

I had the same issue. I live in NYC and have never head a problem finding 3g. For some reason today I was on edge 95% of the day in an area I usually get 3g. I'm not sure what is up with it but today was the first time I have had a problem with getting a 3g signal.

2 iPhone 3G's over here... White 16g & Black 16g. No case cracking or flaws. They were "skinned" out of the box. The 1 battery is a little flaky, but still testing. The only place thus far with bad reception was the grocery store.

I hear all these people talking about cracks. i have a white 16gb 3g iphone and have looked for cracks. Nothing. I even dropped my phone while at Summer Stage from the highest point of the bleachers (aprox. 6ft up) and there is no cracks. The top near the sim card is a bit gnarled from hitting the concrete and there is a small gnarl on the bottom. I assume from when it bounced. Besides that the case is solid.

I am very happy with my phone and so are all of my friends who have purchased the phone. All I want is copy/paste.

Bernie-Mac
Aug 14, 2008, 11:39 PM
I have had no dropped calls or any service problems with my 3G, in both Las Vegas and recently on vacation in Kaua'i

aristotle
Aug 15, 2008, 12:30 AM
I have not had any dropped calls but did notice that my 3G internet went down to below Edge speed around 5-6pm PST on Fido today but then it was back up to 2.5Mbps which leads me to believe that these problems coincide with hours of heavy data/call usage on cell networks. Fido's unlimited local calls being at 5pm. I talked with my cab driver this evening and he also has an iPhone but on Rogers and noticed slow internet access earlier today and yesterday.

hotshotharry
Aug 15, 2008, 01:08 AM
At around 6pm today in Winnipeg on rogers, the 3g signal wash showing 4 bars, but my call was complete crap, it sounded like i was talking to a fax machine ( well almost ) so i hung up switched to edge and the call was perfect !!!

I am very disappointed that i have to switch off 3g to actually use the phone! i mean wtf apple! lol fix it ! :-)

AnalyzeThis
Aug 15, 2008, 07:31 AM
I have not had any dropped calls but did notice that my 3G internet went down to below Edge speed around 5-6pm PST on Fido today but then it was back up to 2.5Mbps which leads me to believe that these problems coincide with hours of heavy data/call usage on cell networks. Fido's unlimited local calls being at 5pm. I talked with my cab driver this evening and he also has an iPhone but on Rogers and noticed slow internet access earlier today and yesterday.

Most of us would think that having 5 bars means you will get excellent performance. In reality, number of bars only indicate the signal strength.

Unfortunately, it does not mean that network has a plenty of bandwidth or the traffic quality.

I have iPhone for the second day and besides bad sim cards issue (poor internet access on 3G, it was corrected with new sim card), I noticed a wild variations in a network performance based on specific time. Sometimes, during congestion switching to EDGE would help and it is even faster then 3G.

The most important factor in network performance is latency and this one variates greatly during day. When it is ~250ms you hare very happy, but it could go up to 25secs - causing timeouts or huge delays. Once data frame is out there is nothing to stop it. Delays are the killer.

ATT would prioritize voice packets over data without any doubt. The call drop is mainly attributed to a network change/switch. The spoken fix: lowering the 3G signal strength threshold could help to some degree.

Lets not forget 3G is not yet has a coverage of the EDGE. It also means 3G capable towers take more load. I believe 3G will improve going forward as ATT add more coverage.

ATT is pushing for bars in ads, but should not forget about network capacity/quality too.

Maxington
Aug 15, 2008, 08:32 AM
ATT is pushing for bars in ads, but should not forget about network capacity/quality too.

I agree it's fine to have signal strength, but sucks when the voice traffic over the signal is interfered with or degraded cause a bad user experience.

robanga
Aug 15, 2008, 09:01 AM
I have a 3G iPhone but live about 40 miles from the nearest 3G coverage. That said, the store told me 3G was being turned on today in our town. None the less, I have traveled to Portland a few times and never noticed reception problems at all, including the entire trip up I-5 where 3G was available (Salem Oregon and the outer burbs of Portland included)

Same thing in Denver, yes it switched back and fourth a bit there but only when I was clearly on the edge of 3G coverage.

pgflmac
Aug 15, 2008, 09:33 AM
Most of us would think that having 5 bars means you will get excellent performance. In reality, number of bars only indicate the signal strength.

Unfortunately, it does not mean that network has a plenty of bandwidth or the traffic quality.

I have iPhone for the second day and besides bad sim cards issue (poor internet access on 3G, it was corrected with new sim card), I noticed a wild variations in a network performance based on specific time. Sometimes, during congestion switching to EDGE would help and it is even faster then 3G.

The most important factor in network performance is latency and this one variates greatly during day. When it is ~250ms you hare very happy, but it could go up to 25secs - causing timeouts or huge delays. Once data frame is out there is nothing to stop it. Delays are the killer.

ATT would prioritize voice packets over data without any doubt. The call drop is mainly attributed to a network change/switch. The spoken fix: lowering the 3G signal strength threshold could help to some degree.

Lets not forget 3G is not yet has a coverage of the EDGE. It also means 3G capable towers take more load. I believe 3G will improve going forward as ATT add more coverage.

ATT is pushing for bars in ads, but should not forget about network capacity/quality too.

I live in somewhat of a FL backwater with terrible AT&T service. i get ONE BAR but have not dropped a single call. I bet there aren't a dozen iPhones in range of my nearest tower.

FearlessFreep
Aug 15, 2008, 10:13 AM
My commuting route takes me from an Edge-only area to 3G daily. I can just about without fail predict when I'm going to lose a call now . . . and it's always at the fringe of 3G coverage. Either when going out of 3G, or on Edge-only when the phone gets a sniff of 3G.
My personal experience has been that I get much more unpredictable behavior on 2.0.1. I will be in an area that is 3G, yet get no 3G and 5 bars of Edge. Almost like Apple said "take the strongest signal, no matter whether it's 3G or Edge." YMMV.
That being said, I have no doubt that IF this is a software issue it'll be fixed by Apple. But if it's a chipset problem then it's more likely we'll see a 'silent' recall whereby customers who complain are given fixed/new phones, whatever that turns out to be.

brockm
Aug 15, 2008, 01:58 PM
So essentially dropped calls occur when the iPhone switches from 3G to Edge or vice versa?

Another reason why CDMA is better than GSM/HDSPA. CDMA supports transitioning from EVDO back to standard 1X without dropping the call.

Oh, and EVDO is more power-efficient than HSDPA for comparable performance.

I don't know why the whole world is convinced that CDMA/EVDO is outdated, inferior technology.

It also doesn't suffer the problem of decreasing bandwidth availability based on number of 3G connections in the area, since it allows all handsets to send and receive simultaneously on the same channel.

Mazda 3s
Aug 15, 2008, 02:31 PM
I was watching CNN Headline News this afternoon and even they were talking about 3G problems with the Infineon chipset.

This story definitely has legs.

DiamondMac
Aug 16, 2008, 12:39 AM
Finally got my 3G iPhone and love it but the 3G problems are quite bad

I have had numerous calls dropped for no reason in broad daylight in downtown chicago and other problems noted in the article

jmmo20
Aug 16, 2008, 06:13 PM
I say this is a problem only occurring in areas with fairly recent 3G signal.

Spain has had 3G for years, and although Movistar's (the official iPhone network) own 3G network is not the best (Vodafona has the largest and best working 3G network here) I have had absolutely no problems with the 3G network whatsoever.

In 3 weeks I've had the iPhone I've only seen it turning to GPRS (Edge is not available here) a few times, mainly in the subway, road tunnels and isolated and unpopulated areas in between cities or towns.

In 3 weeks I've had 2 dropped calls, which is fine by any mobile setup / handset I've ever had.

And the article is written a bit strangely. Areas with highly populated iPhone base? What? Is the iPhone the only 3G device on the market? Over here I saw 90% of the mobile market is 3G and there are tons of 3G modems for example using a lot of data, so I guess you can only say there'd be an issue in areas where a lot of 3G bandwidth is being used.

jmmo20
Aug 16, 2008, 06:17 PM
Another reason why CDMA is better than GSM/HDSPA. CDMA supports transitioning from EVDO back to standard 1X without dropping the call.

Oh, and EVDO is more power-efficient than HSDPA for comparable performance.

I don't know why the whole world is convinced that CDMA/EVDO is outdated, inferior technology.

It also doesn't suffer the problem of decreasing bandwidth availability based on number of 3G connections in the area, since it allows all handsets to send and receive simultaneously on the same channel.

the fact that the iPhone doesn't manage to switch from 3G to GSM doesn't mean it's not possible. All previous 3G phones I've had have been able to swtich from 3G to GSM and back without any issues, and without dropping network signal. Even in the middle of phone calls of data sessions.

as I said in my previous post, I think you're blaming the system (gsm/umts) and the phone for problems that are probably due to the network itself (at&t). For example I don't understand why it wasn't possible to surf the web and make calls at the same time with the iPhone EDGE when over here It has always being possible to receive calls while on GPRS data session. Sure, the data session is put on hold while you talk, but you actually receive the call instead of getting it diverted towards the voicemail service...

jodyfanning
Aug 17, 2008, 01:45 PM
Another reason why CDMA is better than GSM/HDSPA. CDMA supports transitioning from EVDO back to standard 1X without dropping the call.

Oh, and EVDO is more power-efficient than HSDPA for comparable performance.

I don't know why the whole world is convinced that CDMA/EVDO is outdated, inferior technology.

It also doesn't suffer the problem of decreasing bandwidth availability based on number of 3G connections in the area, since it allows all handsets to send and receive simultaneously on the same channel.

Uhh, you do know that UMTS (3G used by the iPhone) is a form of CDMA right? :confused: Otherwise that would mean you are just talking out a hole in your butt. And you do know that EVDO is "Evolution-Data Only". So it doesn't compare to UMTS at all since it is a voice and data solution. GSM and UMTS are totally different radio technologies. The only relationship they have is that UMTS was taken as the next step after GSM. Just like LTE is the next step after UMTS.

And as was mentioned, it is perfectly possible to receive GSM voice calls while using EDGE data. Plus it is perfectly possible to switch from GSM to UMTS while in the middle of a call, without dropping. Most other phones actually manage to do that all the time.

svandive
Aug 18, 2008, 05:16 PM
Hello, I decided to run a little test and see what I could find out about the iPhone 3G issue. I have an iPhone 3G with NetShare (tethering app) and I also have an AirCard 875U connected to my MacBook. Now I know that this isn't exactly a fair comparison but I decided to see what the difference was in speed between the AirCard 3G - USB connection on my Mac and the 3G - WiFi connection would be.

Results:

AirCard 875U:
Down: 1814 kbps
Up: 350 kbps

iPhone 3G:
Down: 937 kbps
Up: 299 kbps

I wish I could do an exact apples to apples comparison, but this is about as good as I can get it.

I know that in a post above a gentleman wrote about how 3G utilizes CDMA and shares bandwidth among all of the users who are attached and pulling data across the tower at that moment, but I think my test is valid even in the face of this bandwidth utilization fact. I tested five times on both platforms (3G AirCard and iPhone Tethered) and the results I have above are the averages across those 10 tests. Also I know it is unlikely that I am running into bandwidth oversubscription issues coming off the tower as the tower I am connected to is connected via 1 Gig Fiber for wireless backhaul and I can monitor the traffic from the backhaul device.

In closing I really don't want to say anything disparaging about Apple, but I feel the facts truly speak for themselves here. If this is an issue that can be resolved with software or if it is indeed a failure of the ASIC that is being used for the 3G radio I don't know. All I can say is it certainly would be lovely to hit 1.814 Mbps from my iPhone.

Scott

dmelgar
Aug 18, 2008, 05:38 PM
Hello, I decided to run a little test and see what I could find out about the iPhone 3G issue. I have an iPhone 3G with NetShare (tethering app) and I also have an AirCard 875U connected to my MacBook. Now I know that this isn't exactly a fair comparison but I decided to see what the difference was in speed between the AirCard 3G - USB connection on my Mac and the 3G - WiFi connection would be.

Results:

AirCard 875U:
Down: 1814 kbps
Up: 350 kbps

iPhone 3G:
Down: 937 kbps
Up: 299 kbps

I wish I could do an exact apples to apples comparison, but this is about as good as I can get it.

I know that in a post above a gentleman wrote about how 3G utilizes CDMA and shares bandwidth among all of the users who are attached and pulling data across the tower at that moment, but I think my test is valid even in the face of this bandwidth utilization fact. I tested five times on both platforms (3G AirCard and iPhone Tethered) and the results I have above are the averages across those 10 tests. Also I know it is unlikely that I am running into bandwidth oversubscription issues coming off the tower as the tower I am connected to is connected via 1 Gig Fiber for wireless backhaul and I can monitor the traffic from the backhaul device.

In closing I really don't want to say anything disparaging about Apple, but I feel the facts truly speak for themselves here. If this is an issue that can be resolved with software or if it is indeed a failure of the ASIC that is being used for the 3G radio I don't know. All I can say is it certainly would be lovely to hit 1.814 Mbps from my iPhone.

Scott
I wish people wouldn't lump any complaint as a 3G reception issue.

Phones will always perform slower tethering than a dedicated card. You're running a proxy on the iPhone. Its CPU bound, doing extra work. I'd say those results look pretty good for the iPhone.

I experience similar performance degradation with a LG Fusic on Sprint's EVDO network, and it was not having to run a proxy. Most I ever achieved on that phone was 1MB/sec. I can get 1.65MB/sec to Safari on the iPhone.

And the iPhone 3G does not use CDMA. CDMA is the protocol used by Sprint, Verizon, Alltel. 3G does use WCDMA which is similar yet very different.

Prof.
Aug 19, 2008, 02:04 AM
Source: Infineon technology 'fairly new and untested in high volumes'
http://msnbcmedia2.msn.com/j/reuters/2008-08-14t173931z_01_nootr_rtridsp_3_business-apple-infineon-dc.hmedium.jpg
An Infineon chip could be at the root of complaints from around the world that Apple Inc's new iPhone drops calls and has unpredictable Internet links, according to a research report from Nomura.

BusinessWeek also reported on its Web site on Thursday that the iPhone is suffering from faulty software on an Infineon chip, and that Apple plans to fix the problem with a software update.

Representatives for Apple and Infineon declined comment.

Full Story (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26220805/)

bboucher790
Aug 19, 2008, 02:09 AM
Hate to break it to you, but this is common knowledge.