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MacRumors
Jan 8, 2004, 06:13 PM
David Pogue writes (New York Times) (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/08/technology/circuits/08POGUE-EMAIL.html) on an interview with Steve Jobs at the MacWorld Expo.

The topic of portable Video Players came up and Jobs take on it was to give three reasons why he doubted video players would approach the success of audio players.

The reasons cited include 1) "there's no equivalent of headphones" in that watching video on a small screen is no match for a theatre or even television 2) Hollywood already does a good job selling/distributing their content (dvd, theatres etc...) 3) People don't watch their favorite movies the same way as they listen to their favorite music.

Of course, Jobs ends with "Now, Im not saying were not working on something like that, Who knows what weve got in our labs?

idkew
Jan 8, 2004, 06:16 PM
Damn you Steve!

I bet he is just sitting back in his chair right now, laughing at all of use trying to figure out what "Now, Im not saying were not working on something like that, Who knows what weve got in our labs? means.

splashman
Jan 8, 2004, 06:19 PM
I'm sure Apple is working on all kinds of goodies, some which we may see in a few years, and some of which we'll never see. An Apple video player will appear when they can find a way to make such a product appeal to the masses.

I'm as big a tech geek as the next guy, but watching movies on a tiny screen has zero appeal to me. SJ made a good point -- with a good pair of headphones, you can have a pretty darn good listening experience. There simply isn't any equivalent in the video realm. Yet.

blueBomber
Jan 8, 2004, 06:22 PM
I agree that portable video is a very different beast than music. A friend of mine has a bunch of episodes of Star Trek on his pocket pc, and when he tries to show me how cool it is, I can't help but think that it's almost too gimicky. I just can't get into watching video on a tiny screen like that.

CrackedButter
Jan 8, 2004, 06:24 PM
He makes sense, at least he isn't seeking the dollars in every possible way, he justifies his companies actions.

wiz7dome
Jan 8, 2004, 06:26 PM
"Now, Im not saying were not working on something like that, Who knows what weve got in our labs?

Uh.......? Is it just me, or does Steve sound more and more like Wille Wonka??

mymemory
Jan 8, 2004, 06:27 PM
A portable video player wouldn't work just because if you are watching a movie you can not do anything else like walking on a side walk in the way to the subway. With an iPod you can.

BTW, I saw 5 iPods in NY the other day, every body has one, and I saw 2 or 3 the next day.

BwanaZulia
Jan 8, 2004, 06:30 PM
This is why I am happy Steve is running Apple. He, unlike many of his peers, "gets it". He understands what people want (iPods/iTMS) and what they don't (to watch 2 hour movies on a 2" screen).

I have a nice new Palm T3 and the idea of throwing a couple of Simpson's episodes on it is cool... but just for the gimick of it.

BZ

~Shard~
Jan 8, 2004, 06:30 PM
Steve just had to throw that last little comment in there, didn't he?

macreator
Jan 8, 2004, 06:32 PM
Hint hint.... I would love to see an Apple branded video player. It would be awesome if the Newton was resurrected along with it. Think of an Apple iPlayer with mobile versions of iLife apps + PDA Functions (i.e. Address Book, iCal etc.) + Music functions as seen in the iPod with movie viewing. Think of an iPod but a tad bit bigger and then put it horizontally. Rearrange the buttons and boom! iPlayer, new from Apple. It would be amazing! I am a bit skeptical as to how bad watching a movie on that would be. The screen would just need to take up the iPlayer's width with the buttons below the screen and a wheel on the right side of the screen. Imagine that plus (I know this is getting long) Bluetooth and AirPort. There will never be a dull moment ever again.

lyonsden
Jan 8, 2004, 06:42 PM
Emagin (http://www.emagin.com) makes some tiny displays that are used in some head mounted displays. In fact at the CES a couple companies have announced consumer versions. Check Antelope (http://www.antelopetech.com/) and Leadtek (http://www.leadtek.com.tw/). The monocular version would allow you to watch and walk.

mjtomlin
Jan 8, 2004, 06:42 PM
I used to have a tiny Casio TV. I think it was a 3" screen or maybe smaller. I can honestly say, it's a gimmick. It was very cool to have this portable TV, but the "coolness" wore off after a half hour. It's silly really.

I think Apple could make a small color iPod for the purpose of displaying photos, like wallet size photos people have now. Especially considering that you can now download pictures off your camera onto your iPod.

One other thing to think about... Imagine having a 60GB iPod with several of your favorite movies... You go over to your friends house, connect the iPod to his TV and watch a movie off the iPod. Now that could be cool and VERY useful.

NusuniAdmin
Jan 8, 2004, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by wiz7dome
"Now, Im not saying were not working on something like that, Who knows what weve got in our labs?

Uh.......? Is it just me, or does Steve sound more and more like Wille Wonka??

Hmm now that I think about it he does seem like Willie Wonka....hmmmm. Maybe he has little men (japanese people?, they r pretty short) who sing the "oompa loompa" song?

painandgreed
Jan 8, 2004, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by Macrumors

The reasons cited include 1) "there's no equivalent of headphones" in that watching video on a small screen is no match for a theatre or even television ...

Of course, Jobs ends with "Now, Im not saying were not working on something like that, Who knows what weve got in our labs?

Of course HIT Labs at UW has developed goggles that create an image by painting the wearers retina wwith a laser.

http://www.hitl.washington.edu/projects/vrd/

It's monochrome equivilant to VGA, but that was also several years ago and they state their goal is full color display. It is being developed commercially at:

http://www.mvis.com/nomad/index.html

you
Jan 8, 2004, 06:57 PM
It would be sweet if instead of having only an LCD screen but a built in projector. Then you could replace your vcr/ dvd player with your your iWatch movie player

hokka
Jan 8, 2004, 06:57 PM
Anyone want to show SJ the "interesting" iPod job posting in 2003? He would go red no doubt :p

I think what SJ is hinting is that they are working on something more than JUST a PVP - something more closer to a PDA or Tablet - BUT aimed squarely at CONSUMERS rather than business man or geeks - like what the iPod has done.

The hardest part to figure out would be what added VALUE/FUNCTIONALITY will this new product bring that could change our lives as the iPod has achieved, we all know Sony is including GAMING as their added value/functionality to their PSP (due out Nov 2004), now what can Apple bring is what interest me the most.

Any suggestions?

qgrayson
Jan 8, 2004, 07:04 PM
...I think people would LOVE to be able to show their iPhoto collection on a handheld.

gekko513
Jan 8, 2004, 07:06 PM
I can think of only two uses for a VideoPOD:

1. As mjtomlin wrote, if it has a tv-out connector you can easily bring your videos to a friends house.

2. For kids on long car trips.

Problem with number 1 is that you would need a lot of processing power to decode divx or mpeg2 or whatever real-time and crank out tv-resolution signals.

splashman
Jan 8, 2004, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by hokka
I think what SJ is hinting is that they are working on something more than JUST a PVP - something more closer to a PDA or Tablet - BUT aimed squarely at CONSUMERS rather than business man or geeks - like what the iPod has done.

Doesn't matter where you aim it. What matters is what people want, or what you can convince people to want.

There isn't a significant market for a PVP, and won't be in the foreseeable future. From SJ's quote, he understands this.

The job posting doesn't mean diddly. I'm sure you can think of several explanations that don't involve an imminent release of a PVP.

splashman
Jan 8, 2004, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by qgrayson
...I think people would LOVE to be able to show their iPhoto collection on a handheld.

You could be right. But honestly, would you? With current technology, I don't think I would. The screens aren't high-res enough for me, and a screen that would fit on a hand-held wouldn't be big enough. Also, I mostly would like to share photos with family, many of whom are not local.

Right now, we've got an account at MyFamily.com, which gives my extended family a place to post and share photos. It's awesome.

hokka
Jan 8, 2004, 07:15 PM
Originally posted by splashman
Doesn't matter where you aim it. What matters is what people want, or what you can convince people to want.

There isn't a significant market for a PVP, and won't be in the foreseeable future. From SJ's quote, he understands this.

No, you got me wrong, Apple is too smart to "push" what they think is right for a particular market, but rather listen to what people "want" then figure out how to add that value/functionality/want to a product which can fulfill these requirement - did you read the paragraph just below what you have quoted?

Secondly, I (already) agree with you there's not a significant market for a PVP ALONE, but other added value could mean a much better product (so you can do MORE than just view movies/pix and listen to tunes for example)

splashman
Jan 8, 2004, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by gekko513
I can think of only two uses for a VideoPOD:

1. As mjtomlin wrote, if it has a tv-out connector you can easily bring your videos to a friends house.
2. For kids on long car trips.

Regarding #1, just curious -- do you currently bring videos to a friends' house?

Maybe I'm just weird, but neither I nor my kids do that very often at all, and having a more convenient way to do it wouldn't increase my desire to do so.

As someone with kids, I can say #2 is valid, but we just use our iBook for that. (We've got an extra battery).

thecow
Jan 8, 2004, 07:21 PM
Now, Im not saying were not working on something like that, Who knows what weve got in our labs?
CURSE YOU STEVE! CURSE YOU!!!!!!

iAtom
Jan 8, 2004, 07:23 PM
Originally posted by lyonsden
Emagin (http://www.emagin.com) makes some tiny displays that are used in some head mounted displays. In fact at the CES a couple companies have announced consumer versions. Check Antelope (http://www.antelopetech.com/) and Leadtek (http://www.leadtek.com.tw/). The monocular version would allow you to watch and walk.

I really doubt that anyone could walk and watch one of those things. That would require each of your eyes to focus at different distances, and i'm pretty sure that's not possible.

I personally would like a device just like an iPod, except with a video-out port so you can plug it into a tv and watch video. It would also be nice if it had a remote controlled version of iPhoto.

splashman
Jan 8, 2004, 07:30 PM
Originally posted by hokka
No, you got me wrong, Apple is too smart to "push" what they think is right for a particular market, but rather listen to what people "want" then figure out how to add that value/functionality/want to a product which can fulfill these requirement - did you read the paragraph just below what you have quoted?

Secondly, I (already) agree with you there's not a significant market for a PVP ALONE, but other added value could mean a much better product (so you can do MORE than just view movies/pix and listen to tunes for example)

I read it all, and I just read it all again. I'm still trying to figure out why it would make sense to include a video player in a combo product if there isn't a demand for the video player. Are you thinking that adding the capability would, cost-wise, be inconsequential? I honestly don't know, but I doubt it.

So as a consumer, if I didn't see the need for a PVP, why would I buy a PDA/Tablet/PVP for more $, when I could buy a PDA/Tablet for less $?

I understand you're asking a question, not making a statement, and I don't mean to sound like I have it all figured out -- I don't! I'm simply expressing my opinion in the form of another question.

pyrotoaster
Jan 8, 2004, 07:32 PM
Truth be told, I think a bigger problem for personal video players in general is content.

I can go buy a CD (or buy some iTMS tracks ;) ) and toss 'em on my iPod. The content is there and it's easy to use. But the same doesn't apply to video. I can go buy a DVD, but I can't import the movie (to be specific, it's possible to import the movie, but not practical), and if I can't get at the content, I've got nothing to put on my personal video gadget thing.

Sure, there's content out there (I've got a few episodes of "The Critic" on my hard drive), but it's hard to get at (Even with DSL, it takes hours to download an episode of "The Critic") and often of low quality (one of my episodes of "The Critic" has a whole third of it where the audio is off by a couple seconds).

Maybe in a few years we'll see an iTMS for movies, but until then most people would have no way to even use their personal video player.

sosumi99
Jan 8, 2004, 07:36 PM
I wish now all the people demanding a "video iPod" would stop their screaming. Job is so right. There's no market and no consumer demand for such a thing. Not the first time Jobs has shown himself to be smarter than the rest of the gadget crowd.

Good job, Jobs!

sosumi99
Jan 8, 2004, 07:39 PM
Originally posted by mymemory
BTW, I saw 5 iPods in NY the other day, every body has one, and I saw 2 or 3 the next day.

There are only 5 people in NY?!? :)

jch200
Jan 8, 2004, 07:47 PM
I don't know. I have a Tungsten E, with a 512MB SD card, and I love watching movies on that thing. I've got Harry Potter, and Spaceballs and all kinds of crazy stuff. (not all on there at once though of course). But the quality is really pretty mind blowing, and with the stereo headphone jack, I just plug in my iPod headphones. It's absolutely great on trips or the plane, or even just in bed, so I don't keep my wife up. Of course, you could do this on a labtop, but I can't afford one, and my palm is way more portable anyway.

That said, I would love to have a Newton, with all the new fixens. iCal, Address Book, Games, Video, Photos etc... I also love showing my iMovies on my palm, and those are usually only 5 minutes or so, and it's way easier than burning a whole DVD. Plus when I go visit my Grandparents and stuff, they don't have a DVD player, and it's super convienent to have it on the palm.

I think in another year or 2, storage will be cheaper, computers will be fast enough to do the DVD ripping (with a G5 you can rip a whole movie off a dvd in about an hour...or so I've heard from other people), and it will be convenient enough to work with video on a personal device. And if it does all that other stuff too, then that would be all the more useful. I mean, with a Newton, just sell it as a pda, that happens to play movies too, and I'd be totally happy with that.

Chisholm
Jan 8, 2004, 07:57 PM
I bet Steve's family has some cool "toys" at home that were never brought to market for one reason or another. I'd love to sneak a peek.

jnasato
Jan 8, 2004, 08:00 PM
Yah, I'd love to see what Apple has in store for us...

The Apple Lab, with their white labcoats and turtle necks.

just a thought
Jan 8, 2004, 08:01 PM
To me, a portable video player is something for the Sharper Image catalog. It's ALWAYS been something for the Sharper Image catalog. If most consumers wanted portable video players, they would have them--they've been available for years, after all. They used to make Hi-8 video hand-held players, Panasonic currently has a whole line of tiny laptop-and-smaller sized portable DVD players. The fact of the matter is, it's a tiny niche market compared to, say, the market of people that want to take their music with them for all of the reasons outlined above (tiny screen, can't really do anything but watch a movie, yadda yadda yadda).

Now, if Apple was actually working on something akin to the "iBox" rumors from a few weeks ago--a NON PORTABLE DVR with a DVD burner that would wirelessly Rendevous network with your iTunes library and now (thanks to iPhoto 4) your photo album, I think that that's something that could possibly have the same sort of mass appeal of the iPod. It would be something for the home, not something you'd take with you everywhere, but that's really how the vast majority of people enjoy their movies: in the home.

Sabenth
Jan 8, 2004, 08:01 PM
Now its going to happen but in what format is anyones guess. when we all have fat net conectons and unlimited downloads then the market opens..

Khodi
Jan 8, 2004, 08:08 PM
This would be my ideal portable movie player: I would want it to be reasonably light, but I wouldn't want the screen to be smaller than about a sheet of paper. I would need it to multitask, and, of course, look stylish. Does anyone else realize that I just described a PowerBook?
Steve knows what we want, I wouldn't worry about it everybody.

ChrisH3677
Jan 8, 2004, 08:10 PM
Originally posted by splashman
Regarding #1, just curious -- do you currently bring videos to a friends' house?

Maybe I'm just weird, but neither I nor my kids do that very often at all, and having a more convenient way to do it wouldn't increase my desire to do so.


We do that often, and have been for years. But it is convenient whereas who wants to send their iPod to your kid's mates house? Whereas a video or even dvd - no worries. :)

Trekkie
Jan 8, 2004, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by blueBomber
I agree that portable video is a very different beast than music. A friend of mine has a bunch of episodes of Star Trek on his pocket pc, and when he tries to show me how cool it is, I can't help but think that it's almost too gimicky. I just can't get into watching video on a tiny screen like that.
He's right. With an iPod or really any portable player of music I can flip my chair back on the airplane, close my eyes and immersemyself int he music instead of the crowded noisy heck that a 737 can be.

With a handheld TV i have to hunch forward and stare at it in my lap, or hold it airborne over my head so I can stare at it while laying back.

Too much work. A eyeglasses mounted TV woudl be awesome. 52" screen on 1.8" of display. Sony made some, yet it cost $999 and then needed somethng to run it.

BoydAnnison
Jan 8, 2004, 08:18 PM
Earphones work because they go into the ear and take over your sense of sound.

Portable video players do not work because they represent a small proportion of total vision. They are equivalent to the tinny speakers in my TiBook. A cinema screen completely takes over your sense of sight (and sound*), and therefore works.

Close to the eye cinema glasses would also work, in the respect that they would take over your sense of sight, but the problem is that we would all be immobilised by our lack of real world vision. We would all need guide dogs to get to work. So that pitches cinema glasses directly against the real world cinema experience.

Try telling your girlfriend that you have two pairs of the latest iSpy digital goggles and would she like to come over to watch a movie? Compared with the experience of going out for a good pizza, the cinema, and the potential for a mutual smile after brushing hands in the popcorn bucket.

The point is that the iPod makes a solitary experience, like traveling to work, more tolerable. So it is good. Whereas portable video does not make that solitary experience more toleable, is a poor substitute for the real thing (if it is a portable video player), or destroys what should be a shared experience (if using close to the eye glasses).

So for me the only way that personal video could possibly work is to invent something completely new, something that combines real world images with video so that the user could still function - perhaps like a fighter pilot's visor display.

No thanks. Pass me the popcorn.

* Thats why we get so upset by noisy people around us in cinemas - they break the magic

Photorun
Jan 8, 2004, 08:20 PM
Whew, I'm so happy we dodged the set top box idea, that'd have been a massive blunder on Apple's part. There are rumors you want to be true (G5 2.6 DP with 533 RAM) and those you don't (Apple anything to do with TV).

ennerseed
Jan 8, 2004, 08:21 PM
iPod Mini (at least brand wise) = music player
iPod (at least brand wise) = multi device

Vonnie
Jan 8, 2004, 08:29 PM
Originally posted by revenuee
What about this as a solution.

Currently the iPod is basically a storage unit, you still need headphones, or a wire running to speakers to listen to the music...

What if rather then having a 3" screen to watch it on ... There is a Video out, that connects to either an external monitor, or a pair of glasses that projects the image in front of you for personal viewing, similar to the way headphones give you personal listening.

Two problems with those glasses:
They are ****ing expensive.
They pretty much completely blind you. You can't just walk around, watching the simpsons on those glasses, unless you like walking against a tree, or falling in a lake.

Other than that, I really don't see the point of having a portable videoplayer, except maybe some geek factor, or an "omg, it's an apple product so i must have it" kind of thing.

revenuee
Jan 8, 2004, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by Vonnie
Two problems with those glasses:
They are ****ing expensive.
They pretty much completely blind you. You can't just walk around, watching the simpsons on those glasses, unless you like walking against a tree, or falling in a lake.

Other than that, I really don't see the point of having a portable videoplayer, except maybe some geek factor, or an "omg, it's an apple product so i must have it" kind of thing.


YA, i noticed this was already addressed earlier in the thread anyway ...

well ... i like the video-out solution though ... load some pictures and then present them on screen, or a few video clips for a presentation ...

There are solutions like this for PDA's ...

I know the iPod isn't really meant to be a business tool, like the PDA's

A firmware upgrade and an a dock accessory could probably do this .... along with lowering the battery power to 2 hours ... :)

ClimbingTheLog
Jan 8, 2004, 08:40 PM
Originally posted by painandgreed
...goggles that create an image by painting the wearers retina wwith a laser...

It is being developed commercially at:

http://www.mvis.com/nomad/index.html

painandgreed, you took the words out of my mouth. a) Steve isn't stupid or unaware of technology, b) Microvision gear *is* headphones for video, and c) Steve may have just tipped his hand.

Apple isn't afraid of completely changing how we interact with computers; if they could get a video iPod with a Microvision display and eye tracker for under a grand they'd really have something, especially if it's a Newton.

Of course, an iPod with a color screen for sharing photos of the kids might be easier, and, heck, 40GB and a screen, let the knuckleheads watch their videos if they want to.

Lepton
Jan 8, 2004, 08:42 PM
Originally posted by mjtomlin
I used to have a tiny Casio TV. I think it was a 3" screen or maybe smaller. I can honestly say, it's a gimmick. It was very cool to have this portable TV, but the "coolness" wore off after a half hour.

I had a TV like that and thought it was great when I went on long road trips in my car. I'd pull into a rest stop and watch the TV then. But I don't think of a Mac product like that. I think of one like this:

Fold a letter size page in half. That's the size of the unit (8.5x5.5). One half inch thick. All screen. Touch screen. Stylus. 40GB hard disk. Firewire. AirPort Extreme. Apple Remote Access built in. It is not a "computer". It only runs Remote Access.

When I walk in range of my desktop Mac, it connects. It logs me in as a user. The Mac screen is on the device. I communicate using InkWell. The hard disk in the device holds my home directory, so all my documents and preferences are there. When I walk away from my desk computer and toward yours, it logs me out of my desktop computer and into yours.

I carry my screen and Home directory with me, logging into the nearest computer that allows, or to my own computer, through the nearest AirPort Extreme base station. A useful, huge, complete, carry around computer that can work well for both business and consumer entertainment.

gekko513
Jan 8, 2004, 08:43 PM
Originally posted by splashman
Regarding #1, just curious -- do you currently bring videos to a friends' house?

Yes. But I'm just 26 and have no kids or family, so my social life is perhaps a bit more "portable" than it would be if I had a family :) .

There is however another problem with this VideoPOD. I currently see no easy way to legally get movies in a digital format that would be suitable for such a device.

We would need some kind of divx with DRM and a online Movie Store.

elgruga
Jan 8, 2004, 08:46 PM
No chance of a video player.
Don't need them, we have powerbooks with DVD players.

The next big thing is going to be something where we can catch shows films etc on our powerbooks, with a wireless connection, like satellite.
In fact that is the next thing - instant fast satellite type connection wherever you are on your powerbook.
Total connectivity hasn't been achieved yet.

But it is going to take a new connection protocol, because 2.4 ghz wont do it.

All we have with the iPod is small size and big capacity - we dont have anything new.
Walkmans have been around for 25 years.

I sometimes wonder if we are hypnotised into believing that SciFi stuff is here now. It aint.

When you can "Beam me up, Scotty", thats when you'll know the big stuff is here.

zjrhens
Jan 8, 2004, 08:48 PM
I think Jobs is a great guy and i see for biusness reasons why he doenst feel that is the size of a folded dollar bill would make any interest. I'll tell you why I dream of a palm or ipod like device that would allow you to download (buy) a song right off the internet right onto your ipod without having to go to youre comuter. and being able to use rendezvous to acess your computer and listen to your music, and in the same device to acess the features of sherlock. Imagine an age where we're out and about and your gilfriend calls you on the phone and says that she wants to do dinner and a movie. So you hang up youre phone pull out your ipod and using sherlocks quick 12 internet items or so buy youre movie ticket make dinner reservations and youre all set. I dont fell however that this should have a full internet feature; I will tell you why. A palm piolet is biult for people that need to keep track and orginize things. This divice would haft to be as simple as the ipod and you would need the basic scroll wheel and 4 buts and the size is also necessary. 1 of the reasons so many ipods have been selling is because the ease of use. When people see and use the ipod for the first time they are not intimidated by a complex peice of tchnocrap that takes a few hours and instructional videos to learn how to turn it on. They can instantly pick it up and do as andvanced a thing as the guy whos had it for 3 years. Its simple, pleasing, easy on the eyes, and without technilogical intimidation, the average joe can pick it up and go. Now getting back to the video part this is why i believe it should have video even though it is a small screen. Lets say you download or rent a video from some itunes music store like service onto youre brand new ibox. You get to the climax and find that you just didnt buget you time well and haft to leave for a job interview at that very second. So you plug your ipod in download the movie it saved the spot in the transfer. You arrive at your destination. The secrety says have a seat it will be about 5 minutes. You say great pull out your ipod watch the climax get the job and have a great day. Thats what I dream of a world like that.

Squire
Jan 8, 2004, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by splashman
I'm as big a tech geek as the next guy, but watching movies on a tiny screen has zero appeal to me. SJ made a good point -- with a good pair of headphones, you can have a pretty darn good listening experience. There simply isn't any equivalent in the video realm. Yet.

I feel the same way. I sometimes think my 29" TV is too small. However, the imaginary product proposed in the previous post might be a little more useful. Actually, over here, screens of that size are quite common in cars (of all places). Some cars have satellite TV and others have a DVD-player/car stereo.

Squire

movabi
Jan 8, 2004, 08:52 PM
which side of his mouth is he talking from?

gosh, can't anyone give straight answers anymore. Right out of the george bush bill clinton school of saying nothing.

zjrhens
Jan 8, 2004, 08:57 PM
i apologize in the first sentance of what i wrote i meant that i believe a screen the size of a folded dollar bill

radiofreak
Jan 8, 2004, 09:04 PM
I'm torn on this.
It 'sounds' cool and I want to think I'd love it and use it but I'm not sure I would.

I could see it being a cool thing for jpeg viewing (very usefull) and maybe stuff like music videos or movie trailers. I just saw the Spider Man 2 trailer at msn,now to download it to my ipod and then be able to show my Dad at home, who does not have internet, would be cool in a way.

Imagine itunes with a new music video service.

You could download the latest Snoop Dogg,Metallica or Michelle Branch video and watch it on your video ipod.

Beyond that I don't think so,

Plus, a lot of my tv watching is sports/news. Now if I could watch football on it,then for sure. :)

fearless
Jan 8, 2004, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by BoydAnnison
Try telling your girlfriend that you have two pairs of the latest iSpy digital goggles and would she like to come over to watch a movie? Compared with the experience of going out for a good pizza, the cinema, and the potential for a mutual smile after brushing hands in the popcorn bucket...

Or you and your girlfriend could brush more than hands while traversing the Amazon, or the universe... call me a sleazeball but....

snahabed
Jan 8, 2004, 09:09 PM
He is right about video.

But I believe the next generation of the iPod family should really update its screen and graphics. Same basic OS and organizational structure... but I can easily see a selected iPhoto library syncing to the iPod, so that it is like a modern day equivalent of all the wallet photos.

Is display technology good enough/cheap enough yet? I dunno, but it is such an obvious evolution.

FirstMacPB100
Jan 8, 2004, 09:09 PM
I think the content issue (or lack of) is what would hurt a VideoiPOD. As was mentioned, there just isn't a simple way to download this weeks CSI episode (at least not yet). iPrimetime ?

What I'd like to see from Apple is an affordable, mast produced product that I can really use - the iSPOT. There are WiFi access points everywhere now (Buffalo Wild Wings Restaurants, Scholtzsky's Deli, Delta Crown Room, etc.) and I like keeping up with my email and browsing while at lunch. How about a iBookmini ? Take the iBook, remove the CD Drive and shrink the thing down with a 6 or 7 inch LCD screen (or smaller, if possible). Comes standard with Airport. Sell it for $699 and you'd get my money. If Sony can produce a CLIE UX-50 for $649, Apple can shrink the iBook.

jwhitnah
Jan 8, 2004, 09:36 PM
Can't really see watching a movie on an iPod screen or buying movies from iTunes. Net's just to slow. Maybe with internet 2 this will be possible.

sushi
Jan 8, 2004, 09:53 PM
Originally posted by pyrotoaster
Sure, there's content out there (I've got a few episodes of "The Critic" on my hard drive), but it's hard to get at (Even with DSL, it takes hours to download an episode of "The Critic") and often of low quality (one of my episodes of "The Critic" has a whole third of it where the audio is off by a couple seconds).
FTTH! :D :D :D

DL a CD in a little over a minute.

DL a DVD (video part) in a little over 5 minutes.

Sushi

kenaustus
Jan 8, 2004, 10:08 PM
The last line is the one that cough my attention: "Who knows what we've got in our labs."

Brings to mind several thoughts:

Those labs must be a fantastic place to work in. I can think of few places that would match that job.

While we don't know (but can always guess - however wrong) Apple has blown our minds more than a few times from the original Mac to the iPod. They always seem to come up with better ideas that I could ever dream of and better than most of the posts I have read.

Steve J has said that this is going to be a very exciting year. That should make even M Dell want to see what is going on in those labs.

ITR 81
Jan 8, 2004, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by snahabed
He is right about video.

But I believe the next generation of the iPod family should really update its screen and graphics. Same basic OS and organizational structure... but I can easily see a selected iPhoto library syncing to the iPod, so that it is like a modern day equivalent of all the wallet photos.

Is display technology good enough/cheap enough yet? I dunno, but it is such an obvious evolution.

I want:

To view my iPhoto lib on my iPod.

To view my digital photography on my iPod.

To view my digital video I just shot from my Canon XL.

To view my iPod menu screen in colour and get rid of the black and white look.

To use more app. via my iPod like controla Keynote with it.

If I can view a movie on it..then thats just and extra feature.

-----------------------------------------------
I own a B&W 3 inch tv I use to love when I was working a night shift. You would be amazed how many people will watch some ball game on a 3 inch tv. I had like 5 people watching with me.

dukemeiser
Jan 8, 2004, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by Macrumors
Jobs take on it was to give three reasons why he doubted video players would approach the success of audio players.


Jobs only said that they wouldn't come close to the success of audio players. And he's right. But, he never said a video player wouldn't be successful.

savar
Jan 8, 2004, 10:28 PM
Maybe they're only tinkering with the idea, but I think that at the very least we'll see an iPod type gadget with a S-Video out and MPEG decoding chip.

It will allow you to carry around your iMovies and iPhoto albums and display them anywhere you have a TV or multimedia projector to tap in to.

In addition, many college students are downloading video, and not just movies, but also TV episodes, funny advertisements, etc. These are videos that are compressed to under 50 MB and thus are only the size of maybe, 10 songs.

Perhaps, "Apple introduces the vPod, holds 500 TV episodes!" Of course, movies compress pretty readily to around 650 MB, so even the 15GB vPod holds around 20 full-length movies.

An optional accessory will be a clip-on, 5" LCD screen for watching on the bus, on the plane, etc. Or maybe the vPod has a screen built-in, and folds out like cell phones do. Apple is obviously not planning to make phones, but maybe Apple and Sony-Ericcson collaborate to produce a phone/vPod.

With the proper AppleScripting, your TV-connected Mac could record the morning news for you, strip out the commercials, and compress it and put it on your vPod before you walk out the door.

Sure, some of these ideas are out there, but some of them make sense and could definitely be realized within the next few years.

Squire
Jan 8, 2004, 10:30 PM
Originally posted by FirstMacPB100
How about a iBookmini ? Take the iBook, remove the CD Drive and shrink the thing down with a 6 or 7 inch LCD screen (or smaller, if possible). Comes standard with Airport. Sell it for $699 and you'd get my money. If Sony can produce a CLIE UX-50 for $649, Apple can shrink the iBook.

YES!

I've mentioned that several times on these forums. Using the same logic as in the miniaturization of the iPod, they should scale down the iBook. I still can't believe they haven't yet. Think of the cash Sony and Fujitsu are making. Apple believes that a lot of iPod mini buyers will be people who already own an iPod. It would probably be the same for a mini iBook.

Squire

warcraftmaster
Jan 8, 2004, 10:32 PM
Originally posted by Macrumors

Of course, Jobs ends with "Now, Im not saying were not working on something like that, Who knows what weve got in our labs? [/B]

d*mm you cool jobs lol:)

kidA
Jan 8, 2004, 10:56 PM
steve's point is exactly how i feel. there is no equivalent for headphones. the experience simply isn't that great watching a movie on a tiny screen. but the main thing is the statement that people don't watch their favorite movies the same way they listen to their favorite music. we listen to the same music over and over every day. a few people might do that with a few movies, but it's a totally different experience. we don't just sit down and watch movies most of the time. it's more of a planned activity. but who plans when they're going to listen to music?

revenuee
Jan 8, 2004, 11:05 PM
Originally posted by kidA
steve's point is exactly how i feel. there is no equivalent for headphones. the experience simply isn't that great watching a movie on a tiny screen. but the main thing is the statement that people don't watch their favorite movies the same way they listen to their favorite music. we listen to the same music over and over every day. a few people might do that with a few movies, but it's a totally different experience. we don't just sit down and watch movies most of the time. it's more of a planned activity. but who plans when they're going to listen to music?

Well ... i don't plan when i'm going to watch a movie -- i get HBO type channels with movies on constantly so i just sit down and watch what's on or use the Video on Demand feature, or order Pay per View..

if you consider this planning then listening to music is a planned event ... i mean personally i can't do certain task wile listening to my iPod ie, give a presentation, study (effectively and efficiently), listen to lectures or other people -- so i really only listen to music when i'm sitting on the shuttle bus, or walking to class thats quite a distance away ...

Steven1621
Jan 8, 2004, 11:26 PM
people once said hard drived based mp3 players were a waste of time. now look where we are. apple would be crazy not to look into this further.

autrefois
Jan 8, 2004, 11:32 PM
Originally posted by Macrumors
David Pogue writes (New York Times) (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/08/technology/circuits/08POGUE-EMAIL.html) on an interview with Steve Jobs at the MacWorld Expo.

The topic of portable Video Players came up and Jobs take on it was to give three reasons why he doubted video players would approach the success of audio players.

The reasons cited include 1) "there's no equivalent of headphones" in that watching video on a small screen is no match for a theatre or even television 2) Hollywood already does a good job selling/distributing their content (dvd, theatres etc...) 3) People don't watch their favorite movies the same way as they listen to their favorite music.

Of course, Jobs ends with "Now, Im not saying were not working on something like that, Who knows what weve got in our labs?

Steve is sure being tricky here. :)

Just because a video "eyePod" wouldn't be as successful as audio players doesn't mean there won't be a small market for it, either now or soon.

And it definitely sounds like Apple is at least toying with the idea right now. :)

sosumi99
Jan 8, 2004, 11:42 PM
Originally posted by Steven1621
people once said hard drived based mp3 players were a waste of time. now look where we are. apple would be crazy not to look into this further.

Um, mp3 players are completely different from video players in terms of market-preparedness. That's the whole point of this article, you know? Apple would be crazy to spend much money looking into this right now.

bdkennedy1
Jan 9, 2004, 12:13 AM
Is that the keynote speech video is small enough in resolution to view on an iPod, but I can't download it and burn it onto a DVD so I can take it over to my friends house to watch it on his TV.

pbreit
Jan 9, 2004, 12:50 AM
Does not a single person here have a Tivo???

Of course you're not going to watch movies on your vPod. Movies are a tiny, tiny fraction of the video out there.

The vPod will be perfect for 60 Minutes, TLC, Discovery Channel, MTV, CSPAN, Headline news, etc. etc. etc.

NOT MOVIES!!!

You'll just set up your DVR (not TIvo since Tivo has an asinine policy of restricting program extraction) to record a few gigs of stuff, move it to your vPod and watch it whenever you get a chance. Perfect for things like 60 minutes where you might only be interested in in half of it anyway. Same with MTV.

I actually think it's a more important device than iPod. While you can sometimes get passionate about music, it's usually background. Video however gets your focus.

ipiloot
Jan 9, 2004, 01:03 AM
This is very true, i think.

"But from his comments, he made it clear that he and Mr. Gates were miles apart on their assessment of a technologys future. It wouldnt be the first time."

s10
Jan 9, 2004, 01:34 AM
If Apple can get better batteries in the iPods, then they will go color lcd surely in the near future.
There are very nice small screens available with a good res. (p900 for example)
Although you cannot watch the iPod screen while walking, working, sporting or driving, it would be nice if you could watch cd-cover art or even music video's, or play colorfull games.
But watching a movie on such a screen? No, Having a movie on the iPod and watching it on a bigger screen? Yes!

JGowan
Jan 9, 2004, 03:17 AM
If a new ipod capable of playing standard DVD "Video_TS" folders of movies, we still have the problem with space.

Currently, I use "DVDBackup" to make identical copies of DVDs (my own, of course) and then I use "DVD2oneX" to compress the file size down under 4.7GB for burning ("Toast 6") ... but we're still talking around 4.5GB of space. On the current iPod top-o-the-line of 40GB, you might could get 8 movies on the unit, without any other room for music.

8 movies is fine, but the time it takes to actually rip the DVDs, compress them and then transfer them to the unit would too combersome for the casual user.

silvergunuk
Jan 9, 2004, 04:51 AM
I think it would be cool idea for apple to make a head mounted display type of gadget. I don't mean these silly goggle like things weve seen in the past. I mean like 1 small LCD screen placed about 2 inches away from 1 eye. It should be adjustable to fit on either the left or right side. An iSight built in so you can see who you are talking to on a ichat messenger type phone with Mpeg4/AAC streaming. Plus with aac you have the ability to listen to dolby digital sound which could be used to watch movies with special type of surround sound headphones. It can all be plugged into an ipod so you can store loads of songs and movies.

GregA
Jan 9, 2004, 05:47 AM
Originally posted by Macrumors
1) "there's no equivalent of headphones" in that watching video on a small screen is no match for a theatre or even television
2) Hollywood already does a good job selling/distributing their content (dvd, theatres etc...)
3) People don't watch their favorite movies the same way as they listen to their favorite music.It's very open... as usual, it lets us make up our own minds on what he's actually denying...

Here's one possibility of a translation:
1) For now it's better to play movies on real TVs
2) DVDs are the best way to get films now and we'll run with that
3) There's no market for watching a movie while jogging.
Originally posted by just a thought
Now, if Apple was actually working on something akin to the "iBox" rumors from a few weeks ago--a NON PORTABLE DVR with a DVD burner that would wirelessly Rendevous network with your iTunes library and now (thanks to iPhoto 4) your photo album, I think that that's something that could possibly have the same sort of mass appeal of the iPod. It would be something for the home, not something you'd take with you everywhere, but that's really how the vast majority of people enjoy their movies: in the home. What Steve said is totally compatible with the iBox rumour (a device to replace your DVD and VCR). Record your TV programs to DVD, make copies of your home movies, listen to music (& copy CDs), view your iPhotos, pause live TV. But the iBox isn't portable at all.
Originally posted by savar
With the proper AppleScripting, your TV-connected Mac could record the morning news for you, strip out the commercials, and compress it and put it on your vPod before you walk out the door.Once an iBox device gets popular, it might be an easy extension to download TV shows to a vPod.

Hell, even something much simpler like reading an online version of the newspaper, or downloading the MacRumors site before catching a train - reading stuff, composing a reply etc.

djdarlek
Jan 9, 2004, 06:10 AM
OK.. here's an interesting idea I had a few weeks back. With the Nokia N-Gage falling flat on its face and the Sony PSP due to incorporate at least some of the features we are looking for, we cannot rule out the possibility of Apple releasing something very similar. Everyone loves games, and this would be another thing to take with you anywhere and anytime (ala iPod).

When the iPod was originally released, Apple were basically saying "hey look. We don't sell music, but you can store up to x,000 illegally downloaded songs on this funky looking device!" . Somewhat to ease their conscience, Apple later release the iTMS. Now they are saying "hey look! we don't support copyright infringement! Our iPods can now hold $9,999 worth of legal music" (hmmmm.. come on.. how many of you don't have ANY 'illegal' MP3s..)

So why don't Apple do the same again? Why not take advantage of the fact that you can download and play ANY oldskool game and play them on a M.A.M.E supported iPlay (cheesy i know)? I have at least 100 amazing NEO-GEO games just sitting here! Why can't Apple take advantage and release some G3 based iPlay device? The latest Gameboy Advance games are completely pants when compared to the original Street Fighter arcades, or having every SNES, Megadrive, Lynx, Gameboy Advance, Neo-Geo, Arcade, NES game sitting in your pocket.

Of course there will be a huge hoo-ha over the copyright infringement, which would probably lead to an iPlay Game Store where you can download retro SNES (e.g.) game roms for a couple of dollars a pop.

My point is, Apple would instantly have one of the greatest portable games libraries available in the world. Couple all this with the ability to watch video files (ok, maybe not films etc.. but if you're an Apple addict i'm sure there are countless things sitting on your computer waiting to be watched.) and syncing contacts and all that stuff..

PLEASE APPLE MAKE MY DREAM COME TRUE!

silvergunuk
Jan 9, 2004, 06:15 AM
DJDarlek, that's a brilliant idea. They could even make it an arcade type thing were you can punch in credit card details and download coin op games legally. Gone will be the half arsed ports of arcade classics. The though of an arcade version of metal slug on the go.....niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice

hokka
Jan 9, 2004, 06:36 AM
Haha... good idea djdarlek, seen this site?

http://www.MacGameCube.com

seems like you are not the only one that want Apple to bring more games to the platform ;)

billyboy
Jan 9, 2004, 07:06 AM
The iPod is a pod, a storeage facility for data that has been created on a computer, or downloaded from some sort of camera. At the moment it happens to be able to connect to headphones or speakers and it is of a size that also makes it very portable - all in all a storage device that can double as a music player without compromising the quality of listening to music

From there on in, I am sure the iPod in its current format will remain "no more" than a music playing mega storeage device with the software to talk to external devices concerned with showing visuals - photos, home videos, movies

The games console idea would certainly kill another PC gripe about Apple and games, but I dont see the iPod as the choice of device. Seeing as Apple are striking up alliances with major players like IBM and HP, it is not beyond the realms of possibility that Apple could license iTunes to Nintendo so Nintendo can make a new sort of gameboy with the bonus of iTunes inside.

the_dalex
Jan 9, 2004, 10:01 AM
Here's something I posted about a month ago on a different "Video iPod" thread... what do you think?


Give me an iPod that I can use as a portable TiVo to record and playback video through a television or computer. It would have a screen for small-scale playback, RCA inputs and outputs, and a dock with the cable tuner (they're bulky) so I can do home DVR, programmable via bluetooth from my laptop, or with a minimalist built-in interface. Throw in Airport Extreme for the base station and then I can use it from anywhere in my house to stream recorded shows.

This is the answer to the "multimedia PC" trend that people are mistakenly buying into. Keep it as a discrete system so I don't have to hijack my computer just to record video, and let me pull video files off to archive, view, or burn them, giving me complete control. Then, let me rip DVDs in Mpeg4 format to put on it so I can watch at my leisure or plug it into a hotel TV or my grandparent's. I don't care if there is DRM on a ripped DVD, I don't plan to distribute them to anyone else or modify them in any way. I don't want to download movies because my DSL is slow and I prefer to buy them on disc anyway, but if I can rip it, then I have the best of both worlds.

That's what I want. It's an iVid designed to manage my movies and tv shows the way the iPod and iTunes manage my music, with the ability to play them on almost any TV or computer.

temptatino
Jan 9, 2004, 11:22 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by radiofreak
You could download the latest Snoop Dogg,Metallica or Michelle Branch video and watch it on your video ipod.

This, ladies and gentlemen, is where I believe the future for portable video is. People are moving to a system where they buy their music online or rip their cds and toss the cases in a closet. The visual experience is actually diminishing at a time when it should be increasing. When (and only when) full-colour screens and video decoding reach a consumer-portable price point, I believe that we will begin to see rich visual data incorporated into our iTMS downloads, and even distributed on whatever physical media we use to buy our music. The 'music videos' would be unobtrusive, but they would add something to the listening experience, increase the visual appeal of the device itself when you're just carrying it around, and add a lot to the song selection process.

yahtzeen
Jan 9, 2004, 12:07 PM
TiVo announced a new product coming in 2004 called TiVo to Go. It will allow you to transfer from your TiVo to a laptop (and probably other devices) for viewing.

It is going to require a USB dongle to authenticate that you can watch it to prevent piracy..but basically what they've done is remove the need for building a hardware device to do this, just use people's existing laptops and provide a software solution.

I think this is great, i have no desire to watch anything on a 2" screen but there would be times i'd like to take things with me from my TiVo to watch elsewhere (business trips, vacations, during lunch at my desk).

yeah.

Trekkie
Jan 9, 2004, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by Steven1621
people once said hard drived based mp3 players were a waste of time. now look where we are. apple would be crazy not to look into this further.

With 3.5" hard drives, yeah they sure were.

When 1.8" and smaller drives came out, they weren't.

There is no screen tech that you could put on a device the size of an iPod that is readily availalbe and under $50000 that would let you watch a movie and weave your way through an airport terminal while watching the movie without walking like a blind person - into everyone and everything.


Also - Movies and TV shows are all about immersion. You can listen to music as 'background noise' a lot easier than you can a telelvision show / movie, etc. So to me an opaque TV screen is worthless...

..now an opaque computer interface that would let me look stuff up with voice cues or maybe even finger movements or something would be fun. But I don't want to remove myself *totally* from society

Sabenth
Jan 9, 2004, 08:05 PM
Simple fact of the matter is were not all blessed with supper fast Net conections the idea of a vPod is great dont get me wrong love the idea and all but cant see it happening for another few years yet maybe another 5 just to be on the safe side