Turn by Turn GPS for iPhone Coming?

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

MSNBC recently spoke (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25802010/) with several GPS manufacturers about their plans to develop a turn-by-turn GPS solution for the iPhone. While the manufacturers were unable to provide many details about their plans, TomTom (http://www.tomtom.com/) reasserted (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2008/06/10/tomtom-navigation-software-coming-to-iphone/) that they do have GPS navigation working on the iPhone and that it works well:“We have made our navigation system run on the iPhone; it looks good and works very well,” said Dutch-based company TomTom, in a statement to msnbc.com. “We will have to look more closely to Apple’s strategy before we can say more about what kind of opportunities this will bring us.”There has been some debate about whether or not the terms of the iPhone SDK would allow such an application, but once analyst claims that when he spoke to Apple "they didn’t say such applications would be prohibited." Obviously, though, there are remaining issues surrounding the deployment of such an application which Apple's Greg Joswiak has described as "complicated" (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/07/14/apples-joswiak-on-iphone-copy-and-paste-gps-driving-directions/).

While some are speculating that Apple may be working on their own GPS navigation solution, others believe that a 3rd party solution will become available before year's end.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/08/15/turn-by-turn-gps-for-iphone-coming/)

[DipDog3]

Can't wait for TomTom, but year's end is a long time to wait!

[Diode]

Maybe with the 2.1 OS?

[bbplayer5]

Isnt this article like 2 months old?

[plumbingandtech]

Gimme. Gimme. Gimme.

oh yeah and since he said the "antenna was too small for that" david pogue should spend more time learning about the product and less time singing and making stupid videos about it and print a retraction since Josniack already said it could do turn by turn.

[Bodhi395]

Isnt this article like 2 months old?

It is older, July 28, 2008.

[stockcerts]

GPS is one of the main reasons I bought the new IPhone. The other programs that tell you what's nearby have little to no value to me. If Tom Tom's software is ready to go, I wonder what the hold up is...?

[dr_lha]

It is older, July 28, 2008.
Unless this is sarcasm, wasn't July 28th 2 1/2 weeks ago, so no, not older than 2 months.

[plumbingandtech]

GPS is one of the main reasons I bought the new IPhone. The other programs that tell you what's nearby have little to no value to me. If Tom Tom's software is ready to go, I wonder what the hold up is...?

Based on the 2.1 leaks. It seems the api was not full featured enough to allow devs to get granualr info needed for turn by turn. This it seems is being added to the api so devs will be able to use 2.1 to supply us with turn by burn GPS solutions.

[Consultant]

Typically the GPS chip in cell phone is NOT accurate enough due to its small antenna (although Apple's implementation of GPS with cell and wifi to locate the user makes it better and faster in populated areas). Think about it, typial GPS antenna is about 1/4 size of iPhone.

In addition, bad placement of any GPS device will affect its reception and accuracy / power consumption.

There are other issues with GPS on any phone. It would be great to have it, but the challenge is more than "can they make a gui" or "can they connect to the api"

[headfuzz]

Herein lies the dealbreaker for me.

If TomTom comes to the iPhone, I can get shot of my Winblows Mobile PDA - which was only bought because the iPhone at the time didn't have a GPS receiver.

*waits patiently for TomTom to release iNavigator for iPhone* :D

[SkippyThorson]

Some sort of Google Maps GPS would not be so bad for the first iPhone. Not say a location specific one like "turn right in 20 feet", but something to announce directions as they approach, so I don't have to hit the next step while I'm traveling somewhere.

[bbplayer5]

I sure hope they offer a 1 time fee for this, and not some 99 dollar a year BS.

[thecritix]

In my view the best thing TomTom can do is sell this at something like $59 (£30) software only, or $129 £65 with a plug in antenna. Maybe the antenna could be a part of the suction pad that can hold it to your windscreen. It could then have a separate wire going to the cig lighter so charging your iphone, giving it strong GPS signal and a mounting place all in one unit. Maybe going even further they could build in handsfree speaker phone.

Alot of potential here me thinks...

[samh004]

Wirelessly posted (iPod touch: Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_0 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5A347 Safari/525.20)

Surely the biggest issue is integrating it with the iPhone os so taking a call while using the gps doesn't turn it off completely.

For that reason I expect apple to partner with one of the gps providers so the app is a bit more integrated, like the YouTube app.

Additionally if the antenna isn't powerful enough I an sure tomtom could make a small external accessory to boost the reception, and I imagine a landscape-orientation dock with power.

[thecritix]

Wirelessly posted (iPod touch: Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_0 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5A347 Safari/525.20)

Surely the biggest issue is integrating it with the iPhone os so taking a call while using the gps doesn't turn it off completely.

For that reason I expect apple to partner with one of the gps providers so the app is a bit more integrated, like the YouTube app.

Additionally if the antenna isn't powerful enough I an sure tomtom could make a small external accessory to boost the reception, and I imagine a landscape-orientation dock with power.

ha! great minds and all that..?! ^^^

[smokeonit]

i hope tomtom includes the bluetooth stack for an external bluetooth GPS so we iphone 2G owners can run tomtom on our iphones as well!!!!!!!

if not apple sucks BIG TME!

[plumbingandtech]

In my view the best thing TomTom can do is sell this at something like $59 (£30) software only, or $129 £65 with a plug in antenna. Maybe the antenna could be a part of the suction pad that can hold it to your windscreen. It could then have a separate wire going to the cig lighter so charging your iphone, giving it strong GPS signal and a mounting place all in one unit. Maybe going even further they could build in handsfree speaker phone.

Alot of potential here me thinks...

I agree. A low base price then add ons like live traffic that can be subscription would be a good mix IMO.

Hopefully they are looking at the price points in the app store and are taking notice.

[peterbaby]

Hey,

Another issue you guys don't mention is the "form" of the potential TomTom (or Apple) GPS nav software.


Will it be available with one-time download maps?
Does anybody know the storage limitation for Apps/dependencies one the iPhone 3G?


Problem we have in Europe is roaming...drive for 2 hours and you're out of the borders...
Basically (except for people who never cross a border, i.e. people who may not have an iPhone :p) a "Google Map" style app, requiring permanent connection to load map would just be a dealbreaker for me.

[Mr. Brown]

I really don't give a damn about Turn by Turn GPS. Apple, just fix the bugs!

[Shadow]

i hope tomtom includes the bluetooth stack for an external bluetooth GPS so we iphone 2G owners can run tomtom on our iphones as well!!!!!!!

if not apple sucks BIG TME!

You'd blame Apple for TomTom's shortcomings?:confused:

[dloomer]

Anyone else finding that GPS drains their 3G iPhone faster than their car can charge it? I've had this experience in two different cars, and otherwise my phone seems to hold a charge pretty well.

If it's not just me, I wonder how good an idea this will end up being, unless some firmware update can address the problem.

[Zyren]

Typically the GPS chip in cell phone is NOT accurate enough due to its small antenna (although Apple's implementation of GPS with cell and wifi to locate the user makes it better and faster in populated areas). Think about it, typial GPS antenna is about 1/4 size of iPhone.

In addition, bad placement of any GPS device will affect its reception and accuracy / power consumption.

There are other issues with GPS on any phone. It would be great to have it, but the challenge is more than "can they make a gui" or "can they connect to the api"

most PDA phones have no problem at all with turn by turn GPS. Owning an ATT tilt, i use my phones GPS all the time for turn by turn and it is very accurate.

A car charger solves all the problems of battery drainage. Yes, it takes about 25-30% of my battery per hour using GPS, but with a car changer my battery doesnt go down at all. To people who walk with their GPS...well it cant be perfect, you'll just have to live with the bad battery life or get a dedicated unit.

I am very content with the GPS in my phone and will use all the time as long as i have this phone. If Apple cannot implement a GPS as well as all the other windows mobile PDA phones or symbian phones then i guess they are doing something wrong.

[dubhe]

I think it would be better if they made a dock with a built in GPS antennae which your Phone or Touch could slip in to. All the software would be on the iPhone/Touch and a better quality GPS system and continuous power would be in the cradle. As the cradle doesn't need a screen or any complicated processor, it would be pretty cheap.

[barabics]

i hope tomtom includes the bluetooth stack for an external bluetooth GPS so we iphone 2G owners can run tomtom on our iphones as well!!!!!!!

if not apple sucks BIG TME!

I don't think TomTom or Apple really care. :eek:

It's in the best interest for both companies to provide TBTDirection Software to GPS enabled devices. Unfortunately, in the case of those without it, they'll want you to upgrade to their respective GPS products.

[essinger]

The article quotes a developer as saying that the SDK agreement bans people from writing GPS navigation applications. That can't possibly be right, can it?

[jcrawford]

I would love to see a turn by turn solution for the iPhone. Better yet I would love to see one for the OS X platform, this would be helpful in making the ultimate mac car. Currently there is RouteBuddy but that is not yet an in-car solution.

I would be one of the first to buy this type of application because I plan to integrate a mac mini into my car with GPS, AM / FM, etc capabilities.

[retroneo]

Anyone else finding that GPS drains their 3G iPhone faster than their car can charge it? I've had this experience in two different cars

You have a 12V car charger which is using the firewire pins which doesn't charge the iPhone 3G at all.

You need to buy a new car charger or wait for the 12V to 5V dock connector adapters from third parties.

[twoodcc]

well this needs to be released soon. i think this would make many iphone owners very happy

[Bodhi395]

Unless this is sarcasm, wasn't July 28th 2 1/2 weeks ago, so no, not older than 2 months.

Sorry, I could see how my phrasing is confusing. I meant it to mean its an older article, not something that came out today. I realize July 28th isn't two months ago.

[mtizle]

Some sort of Google Maps GPS would not be so bad for the first iPhone. Not say a location specific one like "turn right in 20 feet", but something to announce directions as they approach, so I don't have to hit the next step while I'm traveling somewhere.

I really wouldn't be that surprised if google didn't put something like that together in the next maps update. Especially considering all of the effort and features that they have put into both the regular versions of google maps in the past year.

[born4sky]

I want Apple to have their own GPS ... and it's better be free

[macdim]

I really wouldn't be that surprised if google didn't put something like that together in the next maps update. Especially considering all of the effort and features that they have put into both the regular versions of google maps in the past year.

But remember, cell reception != GPS reception. GPS reception is basically anywhere, whereas cell tower reception is far from. Downloadable maps is a must! It would be fine in the city though...

[globalhemp]

There is nothing compicated about it -- that has not already been addressed elsewhere.

My 2007 Mitsubishi Outlander has GPS and navigation. However, in order for navigation to work, there is a legal disclaimer that tells the driver to pay attention to driving and they are not responsible for you getting into a collision if you are paying too much attention to GPS navigation and not the road. You then must touch the "OK" or "Agree" button to have navigation.

This is NOT a 1-time deal. I must do this each and every time I start the engine.

So, such a legal disclaimer "spash screen" is all that's necessary to get around Apple Legal's "complicated" concerns.

[koala]

I want Apple to have their own GPS ... and it's better be free

I'd say this is the winner for inane quote of the thread, but there is some stiff competition for that award.

[jlanuez]

I want Apple to have their own GPS ... and it's better be free

Agreed, this is (should be) a HUGH feature of the iPhone and I'd like to see if FULLY integrated BY APPLE (and also think it should be standard - included free).

If done RIGHT, it will blow away all other devices, moreso than the iPhone already is, and it will become a NEED, rather than a want/decision for so many people that use GPS in their vehciles.

Currently we have one in our Land Rover AND I always get them in my rental cars from Hertz. BTW: The Hertz "Neverlost" (http://www.hertzneverlost.com/) is a really good one!

[sterlingindigo]

If I'm going to have my battery drained, I'd much rather prefer the voice to sound like "Ginger" from Gilligans Island. Even though I'm sure she was at least partly responsible for misguiding the S. S. Minnow into that fateful storm.

[jlanuez]

I'd say this is the winner for inane quote of the thread, but there is some stiff competition for that award.

Why wouldn't you want this to come to fruition FROM :apple:?
You'd rather see a vendor do it? :confused:

[wizard]

I'm not sure who started the "antenna is to small" spiel but really enough now IPhone works fine. That antenna will put me right next to the lamppost at work I'm parked next to. Or if that is to urban for you it puts me at my exact location in the local parks I visit. You can't do that with cell tower triangulation.

In any event I do believe the hold up is simply a matter of software. That is #1 the iPhone OS is way to buggy for anything more than a modestly complex app. Second; we have the issue of the already mentioned unfinished API. So I expect to see such apps towards the end of the year when 2.1 stabilizes.

Oh in case anyone is wondering, yes I'm one of those interested in such an app. Especially if it offers up both land and marine data for the great lakes and upstate NY regions. That would be one extremely handy data set.



Dave

[Bengt77]

There is nothing compicated about it -- that has not already been addressed elsewhere.

My 2007 Mitsubishi Outlander has GPS and navigation. However, in order for navigation to work, there is a legal disclaimer that tells the driver to pay attention to driving and they are not responsible for you getting into a collision if you are paying too much attention to GPS navigation and not the road. You then must touch the "OK" or "Agree" button to have navigation.

This is NOT a 1-time deal. I must do this each and every time I start the engine.

So, such a legal disclaimer "spash screen" is all that's necessary to get around Apple Legal's "complicated" concerns.
Here in Europe, I've never seen such a spash screen.

[dloomer]

You have a 12V car charger which is using the firewire pins which doesn't charge the iPhone 3G at all.

It's a Griffin PowerJolt made specifically for iPhone which I bought last month.

http://store.apple.com/us/product/TS267LL/A?mco=MTIxODk3Mw

It chargers the iPhone fine without GPS turned on. I've seen this behavior on two different cars, one an older Honda and one a 2004 Buick. And like I said, the iPhone normally holds a charge fairly well (need to charge it about once a day, using the 3G pretty frequently).

[Bengt77]

Agreed, this is (should be) a HUGH feature of the iPhone and I'd like to see if FULLY integrated BY APPLE (and also think it should be standard - included free).

If done RIGHT, it will blow away all other devices, moreso than the iPhone already is, and it will become a NEED, rather than a want/decision for so many people that use GPS in their vehciles.
Should indeed be a HUGH feature! :p

[TheOrioles33]

The article quotes a developer as saying that the SDK agreement bans people from writing GPS navigation applications. That can't possibly be right, can it?

If this is the case, Apple needs to loosen up. Tom Tom should sell the software for the jailbreakers at least!

[janstett]

There are a couple of things missing even when we get GPS.

MISSING ITEM #1: A car charger. The existing Belkin type solutions do not work (iPhone states it will not work with them when you turn it on). I even bought a newer Belkin car adapter and it will power the iPhone but not charge it. So we need a car charger that actually works. And specifically I'm talking about the ones with the audio line out in the base so I can have charging and audio in a single iPod dock connector.

MISSING ITEM #2: A rotating cradle. Apple isn't making the iPhone consistent with rotation. Sure, it supports rotation with web pages and photos. But annoyingly, this doesn't work with the home screen or videos or phone. If I mount my iPhone in portrait, most of the interface works but videos play sideways. You get the point. If Apple won't make the UI always adapt to orientation, then we need a 90-degree rotating cradle.

EDIT: This (http://store.apple.com/us/product/TR950LL/A?fnode=home/shop_iphone/iphone_accessories/car_audio&mco=MTU2NjMzMA)might work, I'll buy one and try it.

[Kar98]

Typically the GPS chip in cell phone is NOT accurate enough due to its small antenna

Bullcrap.

The largest parts of an external GPS receiver are the battery and the circuit board the chip's on. The chip itself and the antenna are the size of a nickel.

[Analog Kid]

There is nothing compicated about it -- that has not already been addressed elsewhere.

My 2007 Mitsubishi Outlander has GPS and navigation. However, in order for navigation to work, there is a legal disclaimer that tells the driver to pay attention to driving and they are not responsible for you getting into a collision if you are paying too much attention to GPS navigation and not the road. You then must touch the "OK" or "Agree" button to have navigation.

This is NOT a 1-time deal. I must do this each and every time I start the engine.

So, such a legal disclaimer "spash screen" is all that's necessary to get around Apple Legal's "complicated" concerns.
Having such a splash screen isn't enough to keep you from getting sued. It's enough for Mitsubishi to ship because they're selling cars and they considered the sales benefit of this feature to be worth the risk-- it's not nearly as essential to Apple.

I'm starting to believe that it was for legal reasons that Apple banned turn-by-turn. They don't want to get sued over bad directions-- and you know they will be. Apple's a lawsuit magnet for some reason...
I'm not sure who started the "antenna is to small" spiel but really enough now IPhone works fine. That antenna will put me right next to the lamppost at work I'm parked next to. Or if that is to urban for you it puts me at my exact location in the local parks I visit. You can't do that with cell tower triangulation.
Have you tried it in deep urban canyon? Smaller antennas in these kinds of receivers are particularly susceptible to multipath reflections.
I would be one of the first to buy this type of application because I plan to integrate a mac mini into my car with GPS, AM / FM, etc capabilities.
When you do, please post to these forums about it. I've been "planning" to do the same thing for a very long time, but have never gotten around to it. I'll be interested in hearing your experiences.

[bbplayer5]

Bullcrap.

The largest parts of an external GPS receiver are the battery and the circuit board the chip's on. The chip itself and the antenna are the size of a nickel.

QFT. The antenna is fine.. its the google maps software that isnt designed for GPS. Like when it says im in a field somewhere, and im on a highway... Thats just the software not having the sense to know where roads are, and keeping you ON them.

If you notice on a Garmin, if I miss an exit, it still assumes you took the exit for about 10 seconds, then recalculates. Instead of the iphone recalculating, you see a hesitation. The garmin software keeps your "car" on the road at all times because it knows thats where you would be driving.

The iphone is going to be a good GPS nav... better than garmin? Doubt it.

[Analog Kid]

Bullcrap.

The largest parts of an external GPS receiver are the battery and the circuit board the chip's on. The chip itself and the antenna are the size of a nickel.
While there's room to argue about what is "accurate enough", his statement is certainly not bullcrap. Conversely, the antenna in most automotive GPS systems is a couple inches across and significantly larger than a nickel.

[Analog Kid]

Here in Europe, I've never seen such a spash screen.
We've got a more highly evolved breed of lawyer over here...

[stuff99]

so does this mean downloading maps that load without the need for internet?

[Kar98]

Here in Europe, I've never seen such a spash screen.

http://i38.tinypic.com/2n6z1tv.jpg

[mondesi43]

EDIT: This (http://store.apple.com/us/product/TR950LL/A?fnode=home/shop_iphone/iphone_accessories/car_audio&mco=MTU2NjMzMA)might work, I'll buy one and try it.


My buddy has this and it works very nice. It even transmits the song info through RDS.

[DaBrain]

I sure hope they offer a 1 time fee for this, and not some 99 dollar a year BS.

You still have the cost of the updated maps from Tom Tom if they are selected and that will be almost the initial cost of a new iphone. Tom Tom currently charges $149 to update to new road maps for my Tom Tom one.

I would love to see some competition in this arena just to bring these ridiculous map charges down.

Also Tom Tom software update procedure due to the way they lock their devices down can be a real pain in the duppa! :eek: It will be real interesting to see how they accomplish this on the iphone, that is of course if Apple allows the Tom Tom software on the iphone!

[jdechko]

I really think all of the "no TBT directions" is because of licensing agreements surrounding the map data IP.

The quoted part of the Developer's License Agreement about no turn-by-turn directions is included because Apple is using Google Maps. Their usage agreement states that their maps cannot be used for turn-by-turn directions, so that bit falls down. A possible reason that Google Maps can't do the TBT is that Google is licensing their maps from Navteq. Google gets its maps cheap but for reference only. TBT directions would require higher licensing fees.

TomTom purchased map maker TeleAtlas in June of this year. And now since TomTom owns the maps they can do whatever they want with them. So TomTom is not breaking any licensing agreements because they will probably use their own map data, not Navteq+GoogleMaps.

Id like to see TomTom do it rather than Apple + Google because TomTom has experience. Its another area I don't thin Apple wants to get into. Part of Apple's strength is realizing where it is weak, and partnering with much stronger companies.

Having said that:

I really wouldn't be that surprised if google didn't put something like that together in the next maps update. Especially considering all of the effort and features that they have put into both the regular versions of google maps in the past year.

Google = more licensing fees. Whether they pass it on or not has yet to be seen.

Agreed, this is (should be) a HUGH feature of the iPhone and I'd like to see if FULLY integrated BY APPLE (and also think it should be standard - included free).

I think Apple might help out, but maybe not. And with the cost of licensing the map data (how much is an upgraded map DVD) it probably won't be "free". Nokia Maps TBT is not free. Garmin, TomTom, Telenav are also not free.

Why wouldn't you want this to come to fruition FROM :apple:?
You'd rather see a vendor do it? :confused:

Because they'd have to be the ones to do all the work, and incur associated costs. They'll leave it to someone who knows better.

If this is the case, Apple needs to loosen up. Tom Tom should sell the software for the jailbreakers at least!

As a large developer, I highly doubt TomTom will support the jailbreak scene. They'll go the legit route and sell in the App Store.

[DaBrain]

I want Apple to have their own GPS ... and it's better be free

I have NEWS for you mapping charges will not be FREE!

IM speaking of future map updates and there's only a few companies out there that do this type of service. Sooner or later you will want new maps due to many road changes that will occur and POI's! ;)

[Kar98]

Well the problem here is, if neither TomTom nor Apple get around offering /something/ in the way of turn by turn directions, the, uh, "independent re-engineering" scene will take care of it and nobody will see any sales.

[DaBrain]

I'd say this is the winner for inane quote of the thread, but there is some stiff competition for that award.

LOL! ;)

[jeffarazzi]

If I'm going to have my battery drained, I'd much rather prefer the voice to sound like "Ginger" from Gilligans Island. Even though I'm sure she was at least partly responsible for misguiding the S. S. Minnow into that fateful storm.

It could be much more fun if the voice is Samuel L. Jackson. Imagine what it would say if you missed a turn - "What in the ______ are you doing? Did I tell you to go ______ straight? Didn't you _______ hear me tell you to make that ______ right turn back there? You need to turn this _______ car around right now."

[kugino]

i'd upgrade to the 3G if decent turn-by-turn gps and golf gps applications are available. i think both will come out by the end of this year.

[garty]

Have you tried it in deep urban canyon? Smaller antennas in these kinds of receivers are particularly susceptible to multipath reflections.



Indeed - even my Garmin gets lost when driving among tall buildings.

[scott99]

I really don't understand why this is such a difficult thing for Apple to get done. Hell, my friends cheapo $20 Sprint Phone does voice turn by turn directions via GPS. Hell, iPhone 1.0 should have been able to do this. They make it seem like it's so hard to get GPS turn by turn on a phone, The iPhone is supposed to be one of the most advanced phones out there, yet some of the cheapest phones out there have these capabilities, very strange.:confused:

[eggs]

Apple may be working on their own GPS navigation solution

I just wish they'd fix the typing in SMS.

[Chip NoVaMac]

i'd upgrade to the 3G if decent turn-by-turn gps and golf gps applications are available. i think both will come out by the end of this year.

i would too... but the battery issue for me gets in the way.... Things were great when the iPhone 1G was more focused on calls and being an iPod... but the battery drain issue for the future of the iPhone 2G makes it clear that interchangeable batts will be needed.

[Kar98]

Indeed - even my Garmin gets lost when driving among tall buildings.

Must be way old. The current SirfStar 3, MTK, GlobalLocate chip sets don't have that problem anymore and haven't in a long time.

[kjs862]

Sounds great. I would buy an application like this in a heartbeat. I wonder how much it will cost though...

[GNice]

BTW those of you that have used dedicated GPS systems know they don't tend to have super long battery life. But somehow I bet when this is available for the iPhone people will be upset when it doesn't last uncharged for a 10 hr road trip. :)

[Kar98]

BTW those of you that have used dedicated GPS systems know they don't tend to have super long battery life. But somehow I bet when this is available for the iPhone people will be upset when it doesn't last uncharged for a 10 hr road trip. :)

Well, the dedicated One I have has a battery life of about 2 hrs. Just enough to pre-plan a route at the desk and carry it to the car. You can maximize battery life by dimming the screen and turning down the volume.

The phone+GPS (as pictured upthread) lasts about 2 days with regular usage, and 4 hours as GPS with a dimmed screen.

But in both cases, yes, plugging it into the car's outlet is recommended. The phone even more so if you still want to get some other use out of once you reach your destination.

[stagi]

Some sort of Google Maps GPS would not be so bad for the first iPhone. Not say a location specific one like "turn right in 20 feet", but something to announce directions as they approach, so I don't have to hit the next step while I'm traveling somewhere.

Totally agree, that would be perfect for me.

[Analog Kid]

I really wouldn't be that surprised if google didn't put something like that together in the next maps update. Especially considering all of the effort and features that they have put into both the regular versions of google maps in the past year.
Google gets their mapping data from the same companies that provide it to TomTom et al. I'm sure their pricing is dependent on their data not being used to compete with the TBT guys.
Must be way old. The current SirfStar 3, MTK, GlobalLocate chip sets don't have that problem anymore and haven't in a long time.
Petition for a change to the laws of physics, have they?

[The Tall One]

I'd love for my Blackberry, my ipod, and my TomTom navigation system to be integrated all into one unit.

Obviously, for your car, you'd need to get some kind of mount. Which is fine I suppose.

TomTom's customer service sucks. Its next to impossible to download maps and install them from their website. I've been trying for years. I would recommend avoiding TomTom if possible.

They're GPS unit is fine, its just hell trying to get maps off of their website, especially since they cost like 50 Euros.

[jcb10]

I'm putting my lot in with those here who say any GPS solution for iPhone should come with pre-loaded maps. I have a Garmin IIIc from 1999 that has a massive 1.4 megabytes of memory -- but still has enough room for all highways and major streets in the US and Canada. You'd think there'd be some sort of maps available on a 16 gigabyte iPhone drive.

[gnasher729]

The article quotes a developer as saying that the SDK agreement bans people from writing GPS navigation applications. That can't possibly be right, can it?

Of course it can. GPS navigation means iPhone used in a driving car. Two tons of metal running at 70 miles per hour. At that point, a stupid error in the software could kill lives. And someone _will_ get sued. This is not a business for amateurs.

If there is GPS navigation on the iPhone, it will be made by a company with a proven record and the know-how to handle the risks that come with it. And with pockets deep enough that Apple doesn't have to carry any risk.

If this is the case, Apple needs to loosen up. Tom Tom should sell the software for the jailbreakers at least!

I think you will find the rules for TomTom are different from the rules for you and me. For example, the current shop model wouldn't allow you to download individual new maps (you can only download complete applications; there is no way right now to download additions to an application you have); I am sure Apple would make software changes if necessary to get TomTom on board. GPS software made by a competent company is something that _sells_ iPhones. Just like AT&T does everything Apple wants because iPhones sell AT&T contracts, Apple will do everything to help TomTom because TomTom would sell iPhones.

[DaBrain]

BTW those of you that have used dedicated GPS systems know they don't tend to have super long battery life. But somehow I bet when this is available for the iPhone people will be upset when it doesn't last uncharged for a 10 hr road trip. :)

I agree! For any serious trip external power is a must. Im speaking of long trips, not short ones! Heck, maybe even short ones depending on traffic slowing ya down. ;)

[gnasher729]

Here in Europe, I've never seen such a spash screen.

Bet you've never seen stickers "not suitable for drying pets" on microwaves or tumble dryers either :D

I think that sticker is the minimum they have to do, just to avoid liability when an accident is caused by pure user stupidity. I don't think it would protect hundred percent if an accident is caused by malfunction of the software.

[DaBrain]

I'd love for my Blackberry, my ipod, and my TomTom navigation system to be integrated all into one unit.

Obviously, for your car, you'd need to get some kind of mount. Which is fine I suppose.

TomTom's customer service sucks. Its next to impossible to download maps and install them from their website. I've been trying for years. I would recommend avoiding TomTom if possible.

They're GPS unit is fine, its just hell trying to get maps off of their website, especially since they cost like 50 Euros.

Exactly!!! Have had the same experience here for years! And some here think Apple are control freaks! I think Tom Tom is a lot worse!

Like you, I love their unit but getting new updated maps and installing them is a pain! :eek:

[essinger]

And with pockets deep enough that Apple doesn't have to carry any risk.

But Microsoft has even deeper pockets than Apple, but it still provides a GPS API for developers. Heck, it even has tutorials (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb158727.aspx) for how to use them. And I'm pretty sure Microsoft has a few lawyers around.

[Consultant]

Here in Europe, I've never seen such a spash screen.

In the US, there are too many moorons and lawyers, so everything has a disclaimer on it.

I am guessing in 20 years, water bottles in the US will have
"Caution, content is liquid, improper use might get you or your equipment wet"

In some towns, there are some kind of warning sign about every 10 meters.

We've got a more highly evolved breed of lawyer over here...

Yeah, well I wouldn't call it "evolved".
Although some lawyers are nice, there are too many shady ones.

Bullcrap.

The largest parts of an external GPS receiver are the battery and the circuit board the chip's on. The chip itself and the antenna are the size of a nickel.

Do your research first. I did some market research on GPS for a project recently.

I say TYPICALLY, I also said iPhone's assisted GPS is better than most devices which only has only a small GPS antenna. Go into a tunnel or go into downtown where skyscrapers obstructs the sky and see how well these things work.

[gnasher729]

But Microsoft has even deeper pockets than Apple, but it still provides a GPS API for developers. Heck, it even has tutorials (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb158727.aspx) for how to use them. And I'm pretty sure Microsoft has a few lawyers around.

What does that have to do with anything? Neither Apple nor Microsoft will get sued for making APIs available. Someone will get sued if a car using GPS on an iPhone causes an accident. If the software maker has no money, Apple is next in line to get sued. TomTom has plenty of money, hence no risk.

What GPS navigation software do you know that runs on Microsoft hardware? Any written by amateurs without money?

[bobbleheadbob]

It'll be nice to have GPS available, but I prefer my dashmounted Garmin for turn by turn navigation in the car. I can't see using an iPhone for that. Half the time it doesn't know exactly where I am anyway!

[essinger]

Neither Apple nor Microsoft will get sued for making APIs available.


Isn't that the point I'm making? I mean Microsoft could get sued for allowing anybody who wants to make GPS software to just do it. But they haven't. And apparently their lawyers don't think it is much risk.

[Kar98]

Do your research first. I did some market research on GPS for a project recently.

Hilarious. Most of my GPS devices bear the serial number "engineering sample" ;)

I say TYPICALLY, I also said iPhone's assisted GPS is better than most devices which only has only a small GPS antenna. Go into a tunnel or go into downtown where skyscrapers obstructs the sky and see how well these things work.

Skyscrapers aren't an issue anymore, nor are tunnels. The receivers are sensitive enough these days to deal with the former, and it that's not enough, like in the case of the latter, there's dead reckoning and imagine that, gyro sensors.

[satchmo]

Any GPS app for the iPhone should be a one time fee.

Why you would pay $99 annually when standalone units are going for $120 without an annual fee?

Sure there's the benefit of having everything in one device...but how inconvenient is it to take out a dedicated GPS unit from out of your glove box of your car?

[scriptx]

Skyscrapers aren't an issue anymore, nor are tunnels. The receivers are sensitive enough these days to deal with the former, and it that's not enough, like in the case of the latter, there's dead reckoning and imagine that, gyro sensors.

Good point.

I also want to add that I have been using GPS since the first cut of Destinator came out for the iPaq against the entrenched Pocket Copilot. TomTom was an even later entry that came in stole the market (at least on the Pocket PC platform) through innovation. Their newer stand alone units do excellent through tunnels and I have yet to have an issue with skyscrapers or driving through the peaks up in the Cascades. It was an issue years ago but the newer chipsets are much better.

For me, a GPS solution that only gets it maps through the network is just too limited since I spend a lot of time in the Cascades hiking, boarding, etc. where there is no reception.

[brianadkins]

I thought TeleNav was already "officially" in line for this app ....

http://gizmodo.com/5024018/telenav-confirms-iphone-in+car-navigation-app

[rlreif]

It'll be nice to have GPS available, but I prefer my dashmounted Garmin for turn by turn navigation in the car. I can't see using an iPhone for that. Half the time it doesn't know exactly where I am anyway!

i agree, its better to have a separate unit while driving...
it would be cool for the iphone to have it though too, for walking or biking when in a strange city

what i really want is garmin topo on my iphone....
where i hike, or bike, or whatever (id like to get into geocaching) there is rarely cell service... having garmin topo maps on my iphone stored locally would be stellar

[vandy1997]

I think that this liability discussion is getting a bit silly. Is Apple that paranoid? TomTom already exists for WindowsMobile and Palm devices. How many times have Microsoft, Palm, and manufacturers of the devices on which TomTom software is located (Dell, HP, etc) been sued for accidents due to the fault of the PDA or smartphone? It should be easy enough for Apple to obtain that info. And I'm assuming that there aren't many since you don't read about these companies losing tons of money due to lawsuits relating to such accidents. Why would Apple's experience be any different. I just think that they make excuses for not putting features that are now becoming common in other devices on the iPhone. And I love the iPhone - I just think that Apple should do more for the consumer, and it doesn't seem like it has that desire. And they can't say that adding those features will make the iPhone more buggy, because firmware 2.0 is pretty laggy and buggy (without certain basic smartphone features).

[Analog Kid]

Yeah, well I wouldn't call it "evolved".
Although some lawyers are nice, there are too many shady ones.
Evolved doesn't mean nice, evolved means more effective within their niche. Drug resistant malaria is also highly evolved.
Do your research first. I did some market research on GPS for a project recently.

I say TYPICALLY, I also said iPhone's assisted GPS is better than most devices which only has only a small GPS antenna. Go into a tunnel or go into downtown where skyscrapers obstructs the sky and see how well these things work.
Research? This is the Internet! If he makes his statements forcefully enough he's an expert.

Speaking of tunnels and buildings-- bonus points will be awarded to the first company to integrate the iPhone accelerometers with the GPS to improve the position.

[Analog Kid]

Hilarious. Most of my GPS devices bear the serial number "engineering sample" ;)

Skyscrapers aren't an issue anymore, nor are tunnels. The receivers are sensitive enough these days to deal with the former, and it that's not enough, like in the case of the latter, there's dead reckoning and imagine that, gyro sensors.
You might want to ask that your next sample come with an engineer to explain how it works...

Sensitivity kills accuracy, particularly in the presence of flat surface reflectors like buildings. Do your engineering sampled cell phones include itty bitty ring lasers? iPhone is the first phone I'm aware of that includes anything that could contribute to DR.

As I said above, "accurate enough" is a threshold we can debate, but you're supporting your argument with technical fallacies.

[joeconvert]

You'd blame Apple for TomTom's shortcomings?:confused:

No, I think the poster is blaming Apple for their complete lack of attention to the bluetooth stack.

[dizzy13]

Ill just use google maps app and have a friend hold my iPhone and tell me when to turn :p

[n8236]

This phone is half worthless w/o GPS software. :apple:

[gyrogeerloose]

Anyone else finding that GPS drains their 3G iPhone faster than their car can charge it?

I have. I've also found that turning off the Google traffic watch option helps a bit in that respect.

[samh004]

Here in Europe, I've never seen such a spash screen.

On my TomTom it shows the screen the first time you turn it on, after a reset or something, but not every time.

[belovedmonster]

Please support the openstreetmap project, that way we can have free turn by turn GPS.

www.openstreetmap.org

[saulbug]

I'm sorry, I'm sure I'm the only one who doesn't know... but what the heck is "Turn by Turn" navigation? I have a new iPhone and it seems to provide location and directions pretty well. What does "turn by turn" add?

[Analog Kid]

I'm sorry, I'm sure I'm the only one who doesn't know... but what the heck is "Turn by Turn" navigation? I have a new iPhone and it seems to provide location and directions pretty well. What does "turn by turn" add?
Turn by Turn just means that the software has planned a route for you and makes it easy to follow, typically by focusing on what your next turn will need to be-- then once you've completed that it moves on to the next turn, etc. If you miss a turn, the system will recalculate the best route from your current position.

Basically it's like having someone in the passenger seat with a map. It's not terribly useful if you know where you're going, but if you're somewhere unfamiliar, it's quite useful. Some systems are starting to incorporate traffic data now too.

[pcorrado]

I have. I've also found that turning off the Google traffic watch option helps a bit in that respect.

A big problem with the way GPS is implemented now with Google maps is that the phone is not using the GPS to track you but also the cellular data to load the maps...hopefully turn by turn means pre-loaded maps and better battery.

[Digitalclips]

most PDA phones have no problem at all with turn by turn GPS. Owning an ATT tilt, i use my phones GPS all the time for turn by turn and it is very accurate.

A car charger solves all the problems of battery drainage. Yes, it takes about 25-30% of my battery per hour using GPS, but with a car changer my battery doesnt go down at all. To people who walk with their GPS...well it cant be perfect, you'll just have to live with the bad battery life or get a dedicated unit.

I am very content with the GPS in my phone and will use all the time as long as i have this phone. If Apple cannot implement a GPS as well as all the other windows mobile PDA phones or symbian phones then i guess they are doing something wrong.

Apple are not known for simply implementing something that Windows already has. They are known for bringing out something that makes what Windows already has look like it is a decade out of date. So one has to suspect Apple have something coming that will be 'different'.

[peterbaby]

Apple [...] are known for brining out something that makes what Windows already has look like it is a decade out of date. So one has to suspect Apple have something coming that will be 'different'.

Yeah well, another type of Apple fan would tell that many times, the Apple advantage is not to invent...but to transform an existing idea into a simple and usable product (iPod, iPhone...only iTunes was really new).
In case of turn by turn GPS, I can't see any "new" stuff they could bring that would make life easier...

a system that tracks free parking spaces?
They don't have live satellite pics with guys counting the left spaces ;)
a voice that yell at you when you dare getting out of the planned path? (I kinda hope for that one, my TomTom lady is just way too nice all the time) :D


Again, my worry is that I want a GPS software with INTEGRATED MAPS, not with google map style-live download...although Apple may dare to sell it as "the only GPS with no geographical limitation", that would be forgetting the incredible roaming fees for us Europeans...

[trihard]

Doesn't anyone else feel that Apple mislead the public by advertising that the new iPhone would have GPS, but then deliver without turn by turn? I mean, most people in general consider a GPS devise to do turn by turn, and not just show you on a map, moving.

The problem is there doesn't seem to be enough of a backlash to motivate Apple to do something about it quickly. Kind of like cut and paste. I can't believe the iPhone has been around for more than a year and that has not been corrected yet. I love Apple and my iPhone, but come on. Fix this!

If both TomTom and TeleNav have solutions for the iPhone, then, come on Apple -- work it out and make it happen NOW! Don't make us wait until December 31.

[monkeyrun]

Doesn't anyone else feel that Apple mislead the public by advertising that the new iPhone would have GPS, but then deliver without turn by turn? I mean, most people in general consider a GPS devise to do turn by turn, and not just show you on a map, moving.

Not really, there are digital camera with GPS that doesn't do turn by turn also.:rolleyes:

[trihard]

Not really, there are digital camera with GPS that doesn't do turn by turn also.:rolleyes:

You have GOT to be kidding...right? I mean, you are comparing a digital camera with GPS to an iPhone with GPS?! I think I could believe buying a GPS device (ala TomTom) that might also take a picture, but I cannot imagine buying a Digi Cam that I would expect to give me directions.

No, when the iPhone, the revolutionary Internet in your hands device says they now have GPS, I think that most people's realistic expectations were for it to do turn by turn.

[Sputnickers]

The dutch-based company? Might want to rethink that one :)

[tomjleeds]

Typically the GPS chip in cell phone is NOT accurate enough due to its small antenna (although Apple's implementation of GPS with cell and wifi to locate the user makes it better and faster in populated areas). Think about it, typial GPS antenna is about 1/4 size of iPhone.

In addition, bad placement of any GPS device will affect its reception and accuracy / power consumption.

There are other issues with GPS on any phone. It would be great to have it, but the challenge is more than "can they make a gui" or "can they connect to the api"

The 600 miles I've done the past few days disagree with you. The iPhone's GPS didn't put a foot wrong in keeping me on the right bit of Google's purple line.

Anyone else finding that GPS drains their 3G iPhone faster than their car can charge it? I've had this experience in two different cars, and otherwise my phone seems to hold a charge pretty well.

If it's not just me, I wonder how good an idea this will end up being, unless some firmware update can address the problem.

Yes, that happens to me too. However, don't forget that you're doing GPS and either 3G or EDGE/GSM data at the same time - with the maps pre-loaded I think it'd be fine.

[~NeonFire372~]

Turn-by-turn GPS is a must for the iPhone, in my opinion. It's one of the few reasons I still don't have an iPhone.

[janstett]

I'm sorry, I'm sure I'm the only one who doesn't know... but what the heck is "Turn by Turn" navigation? I have a new iPhone and it seems to provide location and directions pretty well. What does "turn by turn" add?

Analog Kid's answer was fine, but I'll make it even simpler.

Turn by turn tells you "In 500 meters, turn right, then bear left" and it shows you a first person view of the street as you are traveling. As opposed to an overhead view and static directions (without recalculating the route from your current position) that Google Maps gives you.

[samab]

Any GPS app for the iPhone should be a one time fee.

Why you would pay $99 annually when standalone units are going for $120 without an annual fee?

Even standalone units need to pay a monthly subscription fee for live traffic information --- that's the whole point of the "business model" problem with the iphone turn-by-turn. TomTom doesn't know if Apple wants 30% of the monthly subscription fee (on top of the 30% cut of the application software itself).

I think that this liability discussion is getting a bit silly. Is Apple that paranoid?

It has nothing to do with being paranoid. It has everything to do with DUAL licensing.

"Open Source" companies such as Trolltech and MySQL --- have a dual licensing business model. If you want to provide free software --- you can download the source code under GPL. If you want to provide a commercial application, then you have to pay Trolltech and MySQL a licensing fee and obtain the source code under a proprietary license.

Same thing with GPS maps. 2 companies in the world provide maps for the whole world --- TomTom owns one and Nokia owns the other. If you want the maps for non navigation stuff --- they provide maps for a low low price. If you want the maps for navigation purposes --- they provide the maps under a difference license for a very high price.

Google pay the low low price, so they are stuck with a restrictive license that doesn't allow them to provide navigation stuff. The Apple iphone uses the Google maps, so they are also under the restrictive license.

[bananas]

Any GPS app for the iPhone should be a one time fee.

Why you would pay $99 annually when standalone units are going for $120 without an annual fee?

Sure there's the benefit of having everything in one device...but how inconvenient is it to take out a dedicated GPS unit from out of your glove box of your car?

That's the exact point why I haven't bought a license for Wayfinder on my Nokia N810.
OTOH I could live with annual fees if they were less than, say, $30.

I hope Apple and Tom Tom are wiser. I'd love to see Tom Tom software on Apple hardware.

[Nicolecat]

This would be awesome...hopefully there will be a solution before the release of the htc dream with t-mobile. :(

That's hoping for a lot, though.

[gurth4ng]

any change in this? any new info?

[VoR]

tomtom 7 has been hacked off various roms for use on smartphones/pdas etc. They said they weren't going to continue development on 3rd party hardware, but I guess that isn't/wasn't true. They're a useless company, it's badly written but still probably the best car navigation software about - the list of alternatives is as long as my arm.

Don't know about the iphone, it's a rediculous price and has an awful closed app system - who would want one of those?

[Mad Mac]

Anybody know anything about the upcoming Garmin Nuvifone? It looks very nice. http://www8.garmin.com/buzz/nuvifone/media_gallery.jsp

Supposedly it's under approval from FCC and will be for sale very soon for AT&T. I like my iPhone but I'll drop it like a hot potato if Apple doesn't add proper turn-by-turn soon. And without trying to figure out how to nickel and dime everybody (fat chance?). Google maps is worthless for using on-the-fly, not all that accurate and no realtime reroutes.