T-Mobile To Offer Android-Based Phone By Christmas

[Unspeaked]

T-Mobile USA And HTC To Offer First Android Phone

Posted by Eric Zeman, Aug 15, 2008 09:14 AM


HTC will launch the first commercially available smartphone running the Android platform on T-Mobile USA's network, according to a new report. It will be available by Christmas, and maybe as early as October. This is not a big surprise.

HTC has confirmed its commitment to producing an Android phone sometime this year again and again. It is the one hardware manufacturer that has publicly said that it is going to give Android a chance. HTC's CEO said as much in November 2007, shortly after Google (NSDQ: GOOG) announced Android...

LINK (http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2008/08/tmobile_usa_and.html)

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

T-Mobile will be the first carrier to offer an Android-based mobile phone (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/15/technology/15google.html), according to a report by the New York Times. The phone will be manufactured by HTC and will likely draw comparisons to Apple's iPhone.

The high-end phone is expected to match many of the capabilities of Apple’s iPhone and other so-called smartphones that run software from Palm, Research in Motion, Microsoft and Nokia to access the Internet and perform computerlike functions. The HTC phone, which many gadget sites are calling the “dream,” will have a touch screen, like the iPhone. But the screen also slides out to expose a full five-row keyboard.

Since it was announced last November (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/11/05/google-announces-android-mobile-platform-google-phones/), Google's Android mobile phone platform and SDK has seen its share of criticism (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080714-app-developers-grow-impatient-with-lack-of-android-updates.html) as development has continued.

According to the article, a recent low-quality YouTube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCyceYJRUtE&eurl) posted of the phone and its software is likely accurate.

It's recently been rumored that T-Mobile is preparing to launch (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/08/08/t-mobile-to-launch-app-store/) an app-store for all of its devices.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/08/15/t-mobile-to-offer-android-based-phone-by-christmas/)

[wadejc85]

I don't see anything special in the phone. Maybe it's just me?

Plus, the keyboard looked kind of annoying to type on.

[monke]

Didn't Apple look into having a slide out keyboard for the iPhone too?

It looks like a cool phone, but will it have the feature set to beat an iPhone? Probably not.

[kjs862]

Competition is good. Maybe once this comes out Apple will work harder to get the software bugs out of the iphone.

[alphaod]

Looking foward to Android.

[plumbingandtech]

For a moment there, when the google rumors where new way back when, I thought they might have a shot at crippling the new iphone market share.

I no longer worry.

They may sell a lot.

Then again quality != quality.

I'm sure the kiddies with the sidekicks will want to upgrade to this sort of thing though.

[AvSRoCkCO1067]

What an awful video...:rolleyes:

[wadejc85]

I'm sure the kiddies with the sidekicks will want to upgrade to this sort of thing though.

Yes they will. My girlfriend wants one. :p

[Klaxons2012]

Looking foward to Android.

...care to expand on that?

[ArtOfWarfare]

The guy in the video breathes really heavily.

[Xavier]

Looks like a neat alternative to the iPhone

[longofest]

The guy in the video breathes really heavily.

Was definitely thinking Darth Vader

[mrrydogg]

Perfect combination....

Awful, grainy video and someone with a breathing disorder. Did it really need to have sound?

I don't mind the slide out keyboard. Would be a cool option on the iPhone (especially if it included some basic game controller keys). I probably wouldn't use it that much, but it would be nice to have.

[dlastmango]

The guy in the video breathes really heavily.

Its DARTH VADER... and he wants you to join the DARK SIDE...

[Klaxons2012]

I'm not a big fan of HTC manufacturing. My parents bought two HTC phones and when they would use the GPS, the thing could bake a Pizza. I think it would take a great effort from the Android dev folks and HTC to come out with a strong competitor. Apple had me on content delivery alone, so if this App Store has great things to offer and they aren't like the current crop of WinMo apps now (for the most part are useless), then I'd be interested at best. I'm pretty happy with my iPhone.

[gcmexico]

not impressed at all

[nickspohn]

It's going to fail.


Anyone who wanted an advanced touch screen phone has bought one by now, and i can say that once your an iPhone user, you are going to one for a while. Android will do okay, but it's going to flop compared to what some of the people say and how well it will do.

[wadejc85]

I don't mind the slide out keyboard. Would be a cool option on the iPhone (especially if it included some basic game controller keys). I probably wouldn't use it that much, but it would be nice to have.

I hated the slide out keyboard on the Cingular 8125. The phone's screen kept getting stuck in the portrait position instead of changing to landscape. Plus, the keys were so small that I would accidentally hit send SMS message instead of the letters I was trying to type.

Granted, the phone ran Windows, which explained all the problems. :p

But the 8125 was twice as thick as the iPhone. So.... I'd rather not have a keyboard.

[Klaxons2012]

I don't mind the slide out keyboard. Would be a cool option on the iPhone (especially if it included some basic game controller keys). I probably wouldn't use it that much, but it would be nice to have.

I'm in the same camp. I like to type fast and sometimes the iPhone's softkey has a hard time keeping up. A physical keyboard would be nice and game control keys would be a deal closer.

[hardhatmac]

yea no kidding...Darth Vader has one...so I guess that means I need to get one...

[Klaxons2012]

I hated the slide out keyboard on the Cingular 8125. The phone's screen kept getting stuck in the portrait position instead of changing to landscape. Plus, the keys were so small that I would accidentally hit send SMS message instead of the letters I was trying to type.

Granted, the phone ran Windows, which explained all the problems. :p

But the 8125 was twice as thick as the iPhone. So.... I'd rather not have a keyboard.

Did you ever have battery/heat issues with yours?

[striatic]

looks like a solid design. essentially a sidekick with the screen exposed, which isn't exactly radical but offers a lot over the current iPhone interface.

clearly there is a lot of demand to hack these devices, something that Apple has continually sought to curtail, if Android can allow for greater flexibility in terms of customization i think that would appeal to a lot of people.

and while the iPhone is a great piece of hardware, it only comes in one form factor, and that form factor isn't going to be right for everyone. some people just need a keypad, and if an Android phone has one they'll go with it.

i hope Android is very successful and puts Apple into a position where they have to open up the iPhone more.

[Mykbibby]

Just another cheap phone with a touch screen slapped on it and a cliche name...

[wadejc85]

Did you ever have battery/heat issues with yours?

Yes! It heated up when I used the phone for longer than 20 minutes.

The headphone/microphone jack stopped working, as well.

[ChrisA]

I don't see anything special in the phone..

What's special about Android is that it is completely open. All of the firmware inside is open source. You can do anything you want with it.

[nickpro]

The guy in the video breathes really heavily.
yeah for a second i thought it was darth vader showing off the phone

[Fabiano]

I think that google will epic fail on this. There is no space for another Smartphone platform in the market, and so far I didn't see any inovation they have to offer. People in general and developers are demonstrating very litlle interest on Android.

[gkarris]

Further evidence that T-Mobile USA will not get the iPhone, as AT&T is doing EVERYTHING in its power to be the EXCLUSIVE provider of Apple cell phones.

iPhone 4G - goodbye T-Mobile USA, hello AT&T :eek: :mad:

(**gets tired of hacking current iPhone**)

[dreadloquito]

The guy in the video breathes really heavily.

He's clearly enjoying the phone a whole lot I'd say. This video makes me feel like I just accidently walked in on him in a horribly awkward and bizarre, but very private, moment. I feel permanently unclean.

[solarkismet]

It's going to fail.


Anyone who wanted an advanced touch screen phone has bought one by now, and i can say that once your an iPhone user, you are going to one for a while. Android will do okay, but it's going to flop compared to what some of the people say and how well it will do.

I haven't bought an advanced touch screen yet - there's not much out there that can compete with the iPhone, which I don't have either, so I've been waiting.

Why no iPhone?

* 2 MP camera
* No document editing
* Cracks issue
* AT&T

Maybe I'll end up waiting awhile, but laying down $200 for a cracked phone and $2400 over 2 years for spotty coverage is hard to swallow. But I don't want a Blackberry or Microsoft. Maybe it will be crap, but I'll wait before deciding which direction to head.

[IJ Reilly]

Was definitely thinking Darth Vader

Or Tony Soprano.

What's special about Android is that it is completely open. All of the firmware inside is open source. You can do anything you want with it.

Including bad stuff. Does Google have any plans for keeping this platform secure?

[Biolizard]

It's going to fail.


Anyone who wanted an advanced touch screen phone has bought one by now, and i can say that once your an iPhone user, you are going to one for a while. Android will do okay, but it's going to flop compared to what some of the people say and how well it will do.

I don't have a touch screen phone yet, and most people I know don't. Hell, the majority of the UK isn't on smartphones, so the market is wide open yet. Don't write off Android; I'm not liking the SDK issues but it's highly unwise to assume a product is beyond hope as it could bounce back. I want it to; makes Apple and Nokia work harder.

[crazyyankeefan]

I can't believe some of you people! Just because you own an iPhone and you're a Mac loyal fan, you think iPhone is automatically always better than other phones all around? I bet many of you have complained about your new 3G for various issues, or even exchanged it just to achieve "perfection".

HTC has been making phones long before Apple started the first iPhone. Don't get me wrong. I think iPhone 3G is a great device, but this new device by HTC is definitely newer than 3G. Don't you think it's only reasonable to pass on judgement after you have check it out? To say that it won't have the features of iPhone or that iPhone is better at this point is just lame.

[Fabiano]

* 2 MP camera
* No document editing
* Cracks issue
* AT&T



well, the AT&T limitation is only for your country... I feell sorry for you... :p

serious now, its a shame that in US, home of the iPhone you people are limited by one single carrier... here at least 3 carriers have anounced iPhone 3G... Thanks God I will have choices!

[Stella]

I'm looking forward to Android, and if good, I'll probably get an Android based phone.

I'm sure there will be plenty of apps available pretty in a short space of time.

Best of all, no restrictions on what you can, and cannot install, and no artificial limitations on the App. :-))))

Even more competition is Good.

Since its Google and being high profile, has a very good chance of doing well with lots of 3rd party support.

[H. Flower]

I can't believe some of you people! Just because you own an iPhone and you're a Mac loyal fan, you think iPhone is automatically always better than other phones all around? .


I don't know about features, but the quality and design looks awful.

And I don't own an Iphone.

[plumbingandtech]

What's special about Android is that it is completely open.

Oh really?

You might want to google about google's errant email to those developers that google has made "more equal then others" then ask the rest of the developers how open google has been.
;)

[SleepyHead157]

it just looks like a smaller sidekick LX with a touch screen and better software. Its going to have a lot of problems. guaranteed

[Kardashian]

I'm sorry. What?

I felt like I was watching a teen slasher movie.

That guy's breathing is Pervy. Capital P, bitches.

[xix]

The guy in the video breathes really heavily.

That's what we call a mouth breather. Probably uses a laptop manufactured by asus, and runs vista on it.

[tjanuranus]

yeah cause it is better. if you have ever really used one you will see how intuitive it is. unless you use for it's hard to explain and it's only getting better. Nothing is EVER going to please everyone and it's never going to be perfect. At least they will update it to fix bugs and everything else. That's better than a lot of phones.

[LloydBraun89]

I can't believe some of you people! Just because you own an iPhone and you're a Mac loyal fan, you think iPhone is automatically always better than other phones all around? I bet many of you have complained about your new 3G for various issues, or even exchanged it just to achieve "perfection".

HTC has been making phones long before Apple started the first iPhone. Don't get me wrong. I think iPhone 3G is a great device, but this new device by HTC is definitely newer than 3G. Don't you think it's only reasonable to pass on judgement after you have check it out? To say that it won't have the features of iPhone or that iPhone is better at this point is just lame.

well i honestly dont want a touch screen phone unless it has multi touch or great software. i still dont think these phones manufacturers understand that. you can put as many features as you want in a phone but if the software sucks big hairy monkey balls then all that crap doesnt matter. oh and this wont push apple to do better because apple doesnt give a crap about what other phone manufacturers are doing. theyre going to do what they want.

[crazyyankeefan]

I don't know about features, but the quality and design looks awful.

And I don't own an Iphone.

I have an iPhone, but I think that HTC phone looks absolutely amazing. It also addresses the issue many people have with iPhone (the on-screen keyboard).

[IJ Reilly]

I can't believe some of you people!

Beware of any argument that resorts to "you people," let alone begins that way.

[crazyyankeefan]

well i honestly dont want a touch screen phone unless it has multi touch or great software. i still dont think these phones manufacturers understand that. you can put as many features as you want in a phone but if the software sucks big hairy monkey balls then all that crap doesnt matter. oh and this wont push apple to do better because apple doesnt give a crap about what other phone manufacturers are doing. theyre going to do what they want.

Well...this HTC phone will be using a brand new developed OS. I just think some are acting like 6-year-olds who are scared that others' will be better than their own.

[crazyyankeefan]

Beware of any argument that resorts to "you people," let alone begins that way.

Well...I addressed "some". I certainly saw some replies with very fair point of view, but some are just...

[IJ Reilly]

Well...I addressed "some". I certainly saw some replies with very fair point of view, but some are just...

Add "acting like six year olds" to the list of arguments to avoid.

[crazyyankeefan]

Add "acting like six year olds" to the list of arguments to avoid.

So what would you say if you see this?

[bug67]

Competition is a good thing...if you can call it that.:rolleyes:

[SFgadgetman]

I don't know about y'all but that sucky video really didn't show very much. There is by no means enough info to slam the gPhone yet. I ain't saying it's gonna blow the iPhone away but we should at least give it a chance. Sergei and Larry aren't stupid. Their going to make sure the gPhone has a fighting chance at taking a bite out of the apple.

[wadejc85]

I can't believe some of you people! Just because you own an iPhone and you're a Mac loyal fan, you think iPhone is automatically always better than other phones all around? I bet many of you have complained about your new 3G for various issues, or even exchanged it just to achieve "perfection".

HTC has been making phones long before Apple started the first iPhone. Don't get me wrong. I think iPhone 3G is a great device, but this new device by HTC is definitely newer than 3G. Don't you think it's only reasonable to pass on judgement after you have check it out? To say that it won't have the features of iPhone or that iPhone is better at this point is just lame.

I've owned HTC phones before. While HTC may have hit a home run with their phones, Apple has hit a grand slam in my book.

Maybe you shouldn't pass judgement before you get to know the people commenting.

[IJ Reilly]

So what would you say if you see this?

Not following you. It seems you are more interested in characterizing people than responding to their arguments.

[solarkismet]

Better videos of the platform (maybe/maybe not the phone):

http://www.phonemag.com/htc-dream-phone-031838.php

[crazyyankeefan]

I've owned HTC phones before. While HTC may have hit a home run with their phones, Apple has hit a grand slam in my book.

Maybe you shouldn't pass judgement before you get to know the people commenting.

Grand slam...that's by your point of view. I'm sure not the whole world think iPhone is the best phone ever by far.

Not following you. It seems you are more interested in characterizing people than responding to their arguments.

Whatever dude...now you're just judging me as well.

[wadejc85]

Grand slam...that's by your point of view. I'm sure not the whole world think iPhone is the best phone ever by far.

That's why I said "in my book." ;)

[iMacmatician]

Was definitely thinking Darth VaderDon't underestimate the power of Android.

The HTC phone, which many gadget sites are calling the “dream,” will have a touch screen, like the iPhone.Dream… on.

It'll be interesting to see if Android takes off.

[IJ Reilly]

Whatever dude...now you're just judging me as well.

Hah-ha. Nice try. Stick to arguments and you'll have no problems with me "judging" you.

[wadejc85]

Better videos of the platform (maybe/maybe not the phone):

http://www.phonemag.com/htc-dream-phone-031838.php

In response to the "Compass" video, I think spinning around in circles to see the entire 360 degree streetview will make me sick. ;)

I never had the stomach for rollercoasters. :p

[crazyyankeefan]

Hah-ha. Nice try. Stick to arguments and you'll have no problems with me "judging" you.

I don't have problems with you judging me. I was just stating that you were doing what you claimed what I was doing.

[dreadloquito]

I'm sorry. What?

I felt like I was watching a teen slasher movie.

That guy's breathing is Pervy. Capital P, bitches.

Damn right.

[IJ Reilly]

I don't have problems with you judging me. I was just stating that you were doing what you claimed what I was doing.

Ah, no. I was calling you on it.

[minik]

I'm sure the kiddies with the sidekicks will want to upgrade to this sort of thing though.

I used to have the Sidekick 3 before switching to an iPhone 3G. :D

[plumbingandtech]

I used to have the Sidekick 3 before switching to an iPhone 3G. :D

That's called "Upgrading in Style".
:D

[Frisco]

Outside of search and advertising Google stinks!

[wonderbread57]

In response to the "Compass" video, I think spinning around in circles to see the entire 360 degree streetview will make me sick. ;)

I never had the stomach for rollercoasters. :p

Yeah but imagine turn-by-turn directions utilizing the compass and possibly incorporating street-view. Very cool.

However, T-mobile is a pretty lack luster provider of broadband wireless. If you think ATT's 3G is shotty, T-mobile's is years behind that.

[babyj]

Competition is always good, hopefully Android will be good which will mean Apple have to work harder to keep up with it (and ahead of it).

I was having a look round the Google Android website, mainly their Developer Challenge - basically Google driving application development with cash incentives. They've got a list of the top 50 apps which made it to the second stage, some of them I personally found a bit worrying due to their use of the GPS functionality.

One of them is for lift sharing, you tell it where you're going and if anyone on your way wants to go to the same place it tells you so you can pick them up and share the ride (or something like that). There are a number of others which to me at least have the same fundamental problem - they encourage strangers to meet up based solely on them having the same app on their phone.

Not something I'd ever use and I can already see the lawsuits when someone gets murdered / assaulted / attacked or whatever by a lunatic after using such an app.

Its one advantage of the App Store - a responsible company can make sure only suitable apps get released. You won't have that with Android, which will be a free for all. I prefer the control though I'm sure not everyone will.

[EricBrian]

Outside of search and advertising Google stinks!

No.

[wonderbread57]

Outside of search and advertising Google stinks!

Honestly, took the damn sentiment right out of my mouth. They have yet to show market power in any other domain. Google is without a doubt the ANTITHESIS of a product company (that's MS). Android will be the closest thing they get to a product and I don't think they have the structure for it and they are snubbing open source developers who want to help so they aren't making it any easier. I will be so very surprised if Google succeeds here. This is not their "thing" and it will take a lot of work and restructuring for them to be good at it.

[LinMac]

Looking foward to Android.

I'm looking forward to competition for Apple and for phones I can tell friends about that use Verizon instead of at&t.

[slapppy]

Hmm that video was annoying and the breathing, he needs to see a Dr. Thats not normal. Anyway if thats probably beta and they have till Nov to work out the kinks? Will they make it?

[inkswamp]

Is it my imagination or are there several instances in this video where he has to repeat his finger motions because the touch screen isn't responding?

Gee, that wouldn't be annoying, not at all. :rolleyes:

[starseed6]

Dunno why nobody else seems to have noticed this - maybe I imagining it ...

Darth seems to have to take about 5 shots at everything he clicks on the touch screen before it works.

I recently moved from the HTC Touch Dual (good phone, but similar unresponsive touchscreen issues) to the iPhone, and for me, I could never see myself going back. The Android would have to be truly exceptional to beat the iPhone IMHO.

EDIT: darn, you beat me to that by 1 minute!

[wadejc85]

Yeah but imagine turn-by-turn directions utilizing the compass and possibly incorporating street-view. Very cool.

However, T-mobile is a pretty lack luster provider of broadband wireless. If you think ATT's 3G is shotty, T-mobile's is years behind that.

Ah, true. I didn't think about the integration with streetview and compass. I guess Google's only problem with streetview in GPS integration will be adding more cities to the handful they have available. I know I wouldn't be able to use it where I live. :(

[inkswamp]

Outside of search and advertising Google stinks!

Oh fer god's sake. That's like saying, "Outside of hardware and software Apple stinks!"

The problem with your statement is that search and advertising encompass a lot of areas for turning a profit, and Google is so freakin' good at both that they are light-years ahead of everyone else. And if you haven't noticed, online advertising is a ridiculously lucrative place to be right now.

Edit: starseed6, I cut in line in front of you. :p

[Santa Rosa]

Man, Googles attempt to copy the iPhone ad's didn't turn out so good now did it :rolleyes: :D

[solarkismet]

Outside of search and advertising Google stinks!

Google maps
Gmail
Google docs
Picasa
YouTube
Blogspot
Google Analytics
Google.org
$510 stock price ($85 IPO)

Yeah they stink...Most companies wish they could suck so bad.

[thecartoonguy]

Didn't Apple look into having a slide out keyboard for the iPhone too?

It looks like a cool phone, but will it have the feature set to beat an iPhone? Probably not.


Laughing it's a mod of a sidekick. Shaking head ohhhhh T-mobile

[thecartoonguy]

Grand slam...that's by your point of view. I'm sure not the whole world think iPhone is the best phone ever by far.

What is better?

[zombitronic]

What's special about Android is that it is completely open. All of the firmware inside is open source. You can do anything you want with it.

You say that like it can magically pull any software you can imagine out of thin air. You, (as a consumer,) can not do anything you want with it. Like the iPhone, or any OS, for that matter, that software has to be created. I understand that your definition of "anything" refers to not having a company oversee and allow certain applications or allow you to manipulate certain aspects of a device, but that's a far cry from the literal term.

From a developer's standpoint, you, (the developer,) can do anything you can figure out how to create with it. That goes for any platform. Technically, you, (as a developer,) can do anything you want with the iPhone. Apple just might not let you put it on their store and in that case, you'll have to target the breakers.

So, no, no overlords passing judgement on your apps, be they useful, useless, expensive, malicious, pornographic, or whatever. Unless T-Mobile tightens the reigns on their supposed App Store. That's the thing. Until it exists in the consumer's palm, there's no way to compare it to anything we've got now.

Open source is great for development purposes, and I understand that this means that a manufacturer or developer can tweak the OS and apps to their liking and preferences. However, as a consumer, I've yet to see a wide variety of open source software that trumps closed source software, created by a large, integrated, and experienced organization who either created their own source, or at least heavily expanded upon open source (e.g., Darwin.)

[Santa Rosa]

Yeah they stink...Most companies wish they could suck so bad.

Microsoft :rolleyes:

[jayducharme]

What's special about Android is that it is completely open. All of the firmware inside is open source. You can do anything you want with it.

To me, that's its Achilles Heel. I used to be in favor of hacking and customizing. But now I just want things to work when I need them to. Apple has created an impressive interface with the iPhone/Touch. The native apps all work flawlessly and for the most part do exactly what I need them to do. The 3rd party apps so far have been hit or miss; some work well and some don't. Some match the elegance of Apple's design and some don't. Without a strong helmsman to sort the wheat from the chaff, Android has the potential to be a gigantic mess.

Oh, and that hardware in the video didn't excite me. The screen appeared unresponsive in some shots. And that interface reminded me of a Windows desktop. :eek:

[herbalizer]

I can't believe some of you people! Just because you own an iPhone and you're a Mac loyal fan, you think iPhone is automatically always better than other phones all around? I bet many of you have complained about your new 3G for various issues, or even exchanged it just to achieve "perfection".


It is automatically always better than other phones.

Blackberries are butt ugly. UI makes me want to vomit. Maybe they should hire an industrial designer that doesn't work for Play Skool.

Windoze mobile is beyond bad. Windoze doesn't even work on the desk top. Does anyone really think its going to work on a phone? Give my a break. Its borderline unusable.

This Android thing is great for one group of people, Linux geeks. You really think these jokers are going to beat Apple? The linux world has proved that a totally open platform pretty much sucks. Its a nice hobby for people with no life.

[elppa]

The linux world has proved that a totally open platform pretty much sucks.

A bit harsh. Whilst very few people in the FOSS world seem to have even the slightest grasp of usability, various Linux distros make great web/application servers. Linux has proved it's worth in the enterprise.

What's special about Android is that it is completely open. All of the firmware inside is open source. You can do anything you want with it.

Provided consumers/businesses really want that?

I appreciate open source, but the evidence is that quite often they don't.

Open source doesn't mean better. There is good open source code and bad open source code. Same with proprietary, commercial code.

[cloudnine]

i'm psyched to see how the android phone(s) play(s) out... while i don't see myself giving up my iphone anytime soon, it's SO nice to see that phone manufacturers and phone software developers are trying their hardest to compete. i can't wait for the days when the current motorola/sony ericsson/nokia software is phased out for something a lot more manageable and user friendly. the iphone and (hopefully) android are HUGE steps for the cell phone industry. :)

[cloudnine]

This Android thing is great for one group of people, Linux geeks. You really think these jokers are going to beat Apple? The linux world has proved that a totally open platform pretty much sucks. Its a nice hobby for people with no life.

i have to disagree... while this video is pretty much crap, the first "leaked" videos of the android user interface is really nice, and really user-friendly, as well. it's "pretty", if you will... and it's not going to be the type of interface that requires one to have a masters in computer tech to navigate around it.

while i agree that the iphone is amazing and hard to beat, i have the feeling that android has the potential to come in a very close second place.

[fliptastic]

It seems to me that Android will be the PC-like (more open aka too many 3rd parties involved and invited) version of Apple's ("it just works") iphone. Would you rather buy a PC or a Mac?

[inkswamp]

The linux world has proved that a totally open platform pretty much sucks. Its a nice hobby for people with no life.

Yeah, what's that other example that proves a totally open platform sucks and is just a nice hobby for people with no life...?

Oh yeah, that's right. The Internet.

[jlanuez]

Competition is good. Maybe once this comes out Apple will work harder to get the software bugs out of the iphone.

Agreed, Apple will have to work harder to kick-ass!
The iPhone will get better, quicker! :D

[FaustArp]

not a fan of pull out keyboards or phone keyboards at all.. im to used to touch screen now

[kcroy]

Was definitely thinking Darth Vader

that is so funny! I was thinking the exact same thing!!!!!!:p

[fortran]

Hey everyone, I'm pretty much new to these forums, but I've been reading for a while now :]

However, the one thing I don't like (actually, the one thing a I hate) is how quickly Mac loyalists are to bash other companies and their accomplishments and automatically assume they're just copying Apple. Yeah, apple is a great company but it's far from perfect.

To be honest, I've always preferred Android ever since it was announced, although I do like the iPhone. I'm really looking forward to it's release, because those developers have designed some amazing software.

Sorry for the potentially harsh words, but I one of my biggest pet peeves is closed minded people.

[Eraserhead]

However, the one thing I don't like (actually, the one thing a I hate) is how quickly Mac loyalists are to bash other companies and their accomplishments and automatically assume they're just copying Apple. Yeah, apple is a great company but it's far from perfect.

Sure, absolutely.

HTC has been making phones long before Apple started the first iPhone.

So has pretty much everyone else in the business.

[MacTheSpoon]

Whatever. For those who want it, enjoy. I'll be getting an iPhone 3G instead.

[dbassett]

Android is somewhat of a rip-off of the iPhone OS, but has a little bit of a windows look and feel. Lots o' bugs so far. (simalar to vista copy of OSX)
The dream is cheap and flimsy. The screen has a texture to it and gets pretty dirty.
http://z-stand.com/dream.jpg

[Tenorsaw]

Better videos of the platform (maybe/maybe not the phone):

http://www.phonemag.com/htc-dream-phone-031838.php

Thanks for the link. It looks really good to me and definitely has potential. The only thing is no iPod. However, nothing out there really matches the iPod feature in a phone. My other issue is that the phone is supposed to make full use of 3G and T-Mobile barely has a 3G network. Hopefully, they'll have it unlocked shortly after it's release.

[wonderbread57]

Android is somewhat of a rip-off of the iPhone OS, but has a little bit of a windows look and feel. Lots o' bugs so far. (simalar to vista copy of OSX)
The dream is cheap and flimsy. The screen has a texture to it and gets pretty dirty.
http://z-stand.com/dream.jpg

Wow that's a sexy pic. Where'd you get that?

[tirerim]

A bit harsh. Whilst very few people in the FOSS world seem to have even the slightest grasp of usability, various Linux distros make great web/application servers. Linux has proved it's worth in the enterprise.

I find Linux very usable on the desktop, actually. I have Ubuntu installed on my iMac, and it works very well, despite being a nine year old computer.

Provided consumers/businesses really want that?

I appreciate open source, but the evidence is that quite often they don't.

Open source doesn't mean better. There is good open source code and bad open source code. Same with proprietary, commercial code.

I think the evidence is that consumers do want that, given the number of people with jailbroken iPhones. Maybe that's gone down a lot with the introduction of the app store, but I think there's still a significant segment of the population that wants to be able to run whatever they want, and not have to worry about someone changing the firmware on them to make it harder. That said, only time will tell how good the quality of the experience is, and except for the super hackers, that is what's going to determine how well the platform does.

[tirerim]

What's special about Android is that it is completely open. All of the firmware inside is open source. You can do anything you want with it.

Including bad stuff. Does Google have any plans for keeping this platform secure?

Yeah, because closed source has worked so well for Windows security.

[CarlHeanerd]

I don't know about this, the OS looks rather wooden and sluggish. It is almost like he is working with cardboard. The phone itself doesn't look like anything special either. I don't know Google, show me the magic or I am going iPhone.

[irun5k]

Personally I can't wait for Android phones to start popping up.

As a consumer, I love my iPhone, however it doesn't cut it for developing the types of business apps I'd like to develop for my company. The NDA is draconian- which makes it difficult to impossible to find examples or help on certain topics that aren't covered by the "official" docs.

Secondly, I prefer not to play games such as "will I get accepted into the developers club, or won't I?" For the last 12 years I've never had to join a "club" to write code... I've always developed software by downloading development tools (Java, Eclipse, etc.) or making a quick 1 time purchase (Visual Studio)... and I'm off the races. The only one standing between me and a successful deployment is myself. Also, no big lisst of things that Apple says I can't do.

Now, there are some decent apps already for the iPhone. But, a lot of the stuff is pure junk. Flashlights, "eBooks", animated pictures of beer steins, and what have you. So if Apple's attempt was to discourage crap apps and only allow excellent ones, they have failed miserably.

[JBSherman]

The guy in the video breathes really heavily.

Was that Darth Vader with the android phone? I won't be in line at the google store for that!

[Mackan]

I am looking forward to Android phones. Need open alternatives to Apple's closed products.

[Luzzio]

This phone will flop.

Because Apple will win.

...Apple always does.

All hail the great :apple:! Siegheil!

[zenntench_oni]

im really looking forward to Android. :)

[shortlex]

I have an iPhone and my friend has an HTC mobile, and he trys to put iPhone features onto the OS, noteably the "slide to unlock" feature!

if HTC manages to put google android onto all their platforms, that means windows mobile OS = phail!

[Andronicus]

Well Sprints Instinct didn't do it, so bring on the next "iPhone Killer". :rolleyes:

Bring out yer dead...
Bring out yer dead...

[kntgsp]

Didn't Apple look into having a slide out keyboard for the iPhone too?

It looks like a cool phone, but will it have the feature set to beat an iPhone? Probably not.

If it has cut and paste I'd buy it.

Seriously. ***** sad that Apple hasn't implemented that yet.

[SiliconAddict]

I don't see anything special in the phone. Maybe it's just me?

Plus, the keyboard looked kind of annoying to type on.

Considering that its what? 400 x 320 res I'd say its hard to say anything at all. All I know is that will be my next phone simply because ATT is out as is Verizon. That leaves T Mob... the catch is that I need a REAL keyboard. So that leaves either the Wing which has a neutered CPU so the GUI is sluggish or the Dream that sounds like it should be speedy.

as for anything special. I'd suggest going to youtube and search for Android GPS street view. Blows Maps on the iPhone out the water and then some.

[SiliconAddict]

Well Sprints Instinct didn't do it, so bring on the next "iPhone Killer". :rolleyes:

Bring out yer dead...
Bring out yer dead...

Yah because it has to outsell iCrud to be an iPhone killer. Guess what. The industry as a whole will end up being an iPhone killer. Not everyone wants to suck at ATT's teet which leaves massive room for the rest of the ind to come in and clean up.
Then there is that whole activation junk and the fact that I need Unkie Steve's permission to add apps to MY phone. That alone has single handedly killed the buzz for the iHype for many. And yes I do have a serious "thing" against the iPhone. More then all my other complains put together x 2 at least. I don't like a manufacturer telling me what I can and can't do with my hardware. And the first person who says subsidy, I will say 2 year contract with a heavy out clause.

[andy721]

What a piece of garbage. Looks slow and doesn't seem to react quickly enough with accurately touch precision.

Lame, back to the drawing board.

[IJ Reilly]

Yeah, because closed source has worked so well for Windows security.

You mean OSX, right?

It was a serious question, to which I've seen no serious answers yet.

[briantology]

LOLbreathing :p
LOLphone :rolleyes:

[furrina]

Doesn't it seem odd to anyone to have an open source OS running on a phone that is locked to a carrier (in this case rumored to be tmobile)? the proprietary nonsense from these companies is such an anomaly that exists in the US and hampers any technology progress that could be made. And the 3G mess (Tmobile operates on a different frequency from AT&T and other carriers in the US) makes it even worse.

I think open source is the way of the future, though, in part because perhaps business consumers are getting savvy enough to leave beind the microsoft model of crap software that you have to use because it's all shoved up in ur box already (and sadly i think this is what apple is doing with the iphones, and i'm a longtime mac user).

Obviously apple and their app store didnt bring us anything new or better, but they brought it to the masses, so maybe the masses are ready for a choice as they are waking up to the world of mobile platforms and "smartphones".

HTC devices: i liked the tmobile one (dash? 8125? i forget what its name was) but i just do not want to touch Windows Mobile, which was also the reason i didn't get one of the early ones years ago (which did pretty much what the iphone does now, in some cases more).

Another thing barely mentioned in US mobile OS discussions–but the gold standard for much of the rest of the world–is Symbian S60/Nokia. While not "open source" technically, there isn't a tightly controlled app store, and a vast and growing collection of apps exists for those devices to do some pretty amazing things that are just now getting discovered thanks to the iPhone (i've used google maps app on my e61 for ages, just one example.). And while it's a bit complicated and imperfect, it beats windows mobile, and is more advanced and capable of more than RIM, Palm, etc. I'd say android will really give Symbian a run for their money. I think a device like the Nokia e71 is more comparable to the Android phone. The iPhone is more of a "dumbed-down" smart phone with a basic level of quality but without the "sky's the limit" feeling of s60 devices.

As far as the device itself, that one in the pic is pretty cute. I do love a qwerty keyboard , i like to push little buttons and i like movable parts – my new iPhone is driving me nuts with the touch keyboard, but again that may be a matter of preference. and that looks really slender, too. the iPhone's kinda big for something without any of the aforementioned parts. i'd definitely go for something like that. Without the scary panting stubby-pawed programmer, please.

[mtizle]

You shouldn't underestimate Android. I have it installed on my Tilt and it is really a pretty nifty os, even for a beta distribution. Once it is thought as mainstream, it will be easy for users to install it themselves on their current phone, which WILL threaten the iphone due to its opensource nature and the ability that users will be able to install it on their current phone at no cost instead of dropping carriers, suffering ETF's, signing new contracts and paying $199-$299 for a new iphone.

[marksman]

Further evidence that T-Mobile USA will not get the iPhone, as AT&T is doing EVERYTHING in its power to be the EXCLUSIVE provider of Apple cell phones.

iPhone 4G - goodbye T-Mobile USA, hello AT&T :eek: :mad:

(**gets tired of hacking current iPhone**)

Not true.

When AT&T buys T-Mobile, T-Mobile will then have the iPhone.

[marksman]

I have an iPhone, but I think that HTC phone looks absolutely amazing. It also addresses the issue many people have with iPhone (the on-screen keyboard).

Haha...

Yeah people who like to drive edsels and move their money via stagecoach.

However that is the cool thing about Android. Some of us can live in the 21st century and beyond and get rid of ridiculous tiny little hardware keyboards, and those who wish to remain frozen in a time lock can have their little keyboards.

It is a potential win-win as long as the underlying OS is robust and diverse enough to support thousands of hardware configurations without bias.

[Mike Teezie]

With my beloved iPhone snuggled in its dock two feet away from me, I'll just say - that phone/Android looks like it could be pretty cool to me.

I don't think it will touch the iPhone - mainly because of the brilliance of Apps, Safari, Mail, iPod....you all know exactly why the iPhone rules. However, I find myself hating the touchscreen typing anytime I have to send a wordy email to a client - and that little pop out keyboard could be nice.

Plus, I'm curious as to how slick Google's OS and UI will be, if at all.

So. Before I get flamed to hell and back, like I said, I heart my iPhone. I just hope Android is pretty good. Hopefully just good enough for Apple to take some of the niftier ideas, and Jobs-ize them. That's right suckers, I said Jobsize. You heard it here first. :p:D

[milani]

It is a potential win-win as long as the underlying OS is robust and diverse enough to support thousands of hardware configurations without bias.

And that's where I don't think Android will be a superior OS to the iPhone's OS. The reason the iPhone is such a great phone - perhaps all Apple products are so great - is because there is a harmony between hardware and software (I say this as a PC/Windows user, by the way). The iPhone OS isn't designed to work on just any smartphone, it's designed to work on its particular hardware, and as such each facet of the OS takes advantage of the hardware it was designed around. How will Android's OS meld to the diverse range of hardware it is expected to run on?

[furrina]

Not true.

When AT&T buys T-Mobile, T-Mobile will then have the iPhone.

interesting way around the GSM nonsense. but that's not likely, more likely the other way around since T-Mobile is the US division of Deutsche Telekom, one of the world's largest telecom co's, with more than twice the revenue of AT & T (and, i might add, earning euros at a time when that's a nice plus). So unless DT decides to dump the US business, i doubt anyone can afford to eat 'em. Unless Rupert's tired of MySpace and ready for dessert.

[i.maverick]

so many followers... so little time..!!
:D

[furrina]

The iPhone OS isn't designed to work on just any smartphone, it's designed to work on its particular hardware,

and this is good why?

and as such each facet of the OS takes advantage of the hardware it was designed around.

this sounds a little like marketing-speak. there might be some truth to it, but i still don't get why this sort of "harmony" isn't just a way to get you to buy both the hw and the sw. good OS/sw should and can be created to take advantage of the most advanced, or most appropriate in whatever case, HW, shouldn't it? Or the two should be developed together, but why would you have to buy them stuck together?

How will Android's OS meld to the diverse range of hardware it is expected to run on?

and of course that remains to be seen, but in theory that's the whole point. the premise of open source is to allow/encourage the best and most diverse to be developed.

[fredsarran]

Based on the video, it does not seem really eye candy.

[dAlen]

Further evidence that T-Mobile USA will not get the iPhone, as AT&T is doing EVERYTHING in its power to be the EXCLUSIVE provider of Apple cell phones.

iPhone 4G - goodbye T-Mobile USA, hello AT&T :eek: :mad:

(**gets tired of hacking current iPhone**)

Maybe, but T-Mobile is the exclusive provider for the iphone here in Hungary once it launches Aug. 22nd. (Believe they are the iphone providers for Germany and Austria as well, and some other countries here in Europe.)

These business relations (apple, at&t, t-mobile) are interesting for sure.

Peace

dAlen

[milani]

and this is good why?



this sounds a little like marketing-speak. there might be some truth to it, but i still don't get why this sort of "harmony" isn't just a way to get you to buy both the hw and the sw. good OS/sw should and can be created to take advantage of the most advanced, or most appropriate in whatever case, HW, shouldn't it? Or the two should be developed together, but why would you have to buy them stuck together?



and of course that remains to be seen, but in theory that's the whole point. the premise of open source is to allow/encourage the best and most diverse to be developed.

I'm always interested in a good discussion. I'll try to hit your points in order:

1) It's good to have software specifically developed for the hardware when you're dealing with mobile devices because software has to be as efficient as possible, and it's almost always the case that when software has to bend to meet varying hardware specifications, performance, reliability, usability, or efficiency is almost always sacrificed in some way or another. This is especially bad when you're dealing with devices (like mobile devices) where the UI is critical, the efficiency, reliability and speed must be maximized, and the battery-life preserved (I realize the iPhone has poor battery life, but thankfully the software is highly efficient - refer to keynotes where they compared the iPhone strategy to the task manager on Windows Mobile, for instance).

2) Perhaps a good OS can run effectively (as in hit all the above listed criteria) on any platform, but almost all of the iPhone's UI innovations could not exist without its hardware - and probably would not have been developed if it were not developed alongside that hardware. I don't think that the iPhone's touch screen functionality, for instance, could have come to such fruition were it decoupled from the hardware. Yes, Android has the luxury of a pretty solid blueprint to follow, and could probably develop an intuitive UI without being routed on a specific hardware set from the onset, but I don't think that it can match the quality of the iPhone OS because the software is going to have to bend to the needs or limitations of various hardware types. Every aspect of the iPhone UI takes full and specific advantage of the hardware. I'm sorry, but I just see something like Windows being the end result - sure it does what you want it to, on whatever hardware you put it on, but that which is, for the most part, bloated, inefficient, buggy and sensitive to certain hardware. Ultimately I see something that's going to be too stretched to run as well as the iPhone OS. And that smooth running characteristic counts for everything on a mobile device that is, by nature, not the most intuitive or comfortable environment to work in.

3) Yes, I agree it remains to be seen, so I'm not going to condemn Android or anything. I just worry that it's going to end up being too much. An overcomplicated system that just has too much input from too many people with differing visions of the phone's end-game. Apple has focus on their side. I think that's why, at least from my perspective, it makes more sense to support software development in a somewhat confined way. Sure there is lots of innovation to yet be thought of, but by having some measure of control just see Android being pulled too many directions, without a clear focus, ultimately ending up a bloated platform. But like you say, only time will tell. Just my 2 cents on the topic :).

[sk8mash]

If thats android, it looks rubbish! Also, they seem to be using some ancient touch screen compared to the iPhone. Did you notice how many times he pressed the same thing to get it to respond? I think the main problem with all the iPhone copies is the crappy touch screens the use. I saw him press 4 times just trying to close a window... pfft

[Cromulent]

Christ, that is one ugly phone.

[scottinsac]

Now, there are some decent apps already for the iPhone. But, a lot of the stuff is pure junk. Flashlights, "eBooks", animated pictures of beer steins, and what have you. So if Apple's attempt was to discourage crap apps and only allow excellent ones, they have failed miserably.

Imagine how bad the apps they did reject were. :eek:

[johnnyjibbs]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_0_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5B108 Safari/525.20)

It'll be interesting to see how this compares to the iPhone and everything else on the market. How will they get around Apple's patents to provide a user interface as intuitive or even better than the iPhone? Personally, I will be sticking with the iPhone.

What's also interesting is the amount and extent that a mobile phone operator is getting involved in a platform. I susect this applies particularly o the US where I think t mobile is about the main competition to iPhone and AT&T.

[djellison]

The native apps all work flawlessly

Utter utter nonsense. I've got a 5 years old Dell PDA that's more stable and usefull than the iPhone/iPT platform.

Doug

[tmiw]

Well Sprints Instinct didn't do it, so bring on the next "iPhone Killer".

Except it's not really a competitor to the iPhone. It's Sprint marketing's fault that they framed the Instinct as one. The closest competitors are WinMo, BlackBerry and soon to be Android phones, not something that's emulating the iPhone's interface but isn't actually a smartphone.

I actually can't wait for Android, even if it means I won't be able to switch to T-Mobile for another two years to take advantage (if it doesn't flop). More competition is a good thing. :D

[harveypooka]

Looking foward to Android.

Me too.

Competition is excellent. And if it's Google the whole thing will be workable, changeable, hackable and customisable.

[macsmurf]

I'm always interested in a good discussion. I'll try to hit your points in order:

1) It's good to have software specifically developed for the hardware when you're dealing with mobile devices because software has to be as efficient as possible, and it's almost always the case that when software has to bend to meet varying hardware specifications, performance, reliability, usability, or efficiency is almost always sacrificed in some way or another. This is especially bad when you're dealing with devices (like mobile devices) where the UI is critical, the efficiency, reliability and speed must be maximized, and the battery-life preserved (I realize the iPhone has poor battery life, but thankfully the software is highly efficient - refer to keynotes where they compared the iPhone strategy to the task manager on Windows Mobile, for instance).


The software in the iPhone (OS X) wasn't developed specifically for the iPhone, so that would seem to invalidate most of your point. In fact, one of the major features of an operating system is decoupling of the userspace software from the hardware.


2) Perhaps a good OS can run effectively (as in hit all the above listed criteria) on any platform, but almost all of the iPhone's UI innovations could not exist without its hardware - and probably would not have been developed if it were not developed alongside that hardware. I don't think that the iPhone's touch screen functionality, for instance, could have come to such fruition were it decoupled from the hardware. Yes, Android has the luxury of a pretty solid blueprint to follow, and could probably develop an intuitive UI without being routed on a specific hardware set from the onset, but I don't think that it can match the quality of the iPhone OS because the software is going to have to bend to the needs or limitations of various hardware types.


Not really. The company creating the phone with the flux capacitor will extend the OS to utilize it. If they want to throw out the GUI and create their own they can do that too, but that will take some effort of course.

In fact, you can do what Apple did with BSD and incorporate Android into your own, specialized, closed-source OS.


Every aspect of the iPhone UI takes full and specific advantage of the hardware. I'm sorry, but I just see something like Windows being the end result - sure it does what you want it to, on whatever hardware you put it on, but that which is, for the most part, bloated, inefficient, buggy and sensitive to certain hardware.


Windows is a "one size fits all" OS. Developers are restricted to writing drivers to make it work with their hardware and that's it. In this case, the phone manufacturer can mess around with the OS as much as he wants, and he only has to care about his own platform.


3) Yes, I agree it remains to be seen, so I'm not going to condemn Android or anything. I just worry that it's going to end up being too much. An overcomplicated system that just has too much input from too many people with differing visions of the phone's end-game.

I agree completely. It's much more efficient to have one guy in charge who calls all the shots, as long as he makes a lot of good calls. However, it's also a single point of failure type of situation.

[JAYGEE]

Especially when there are Apps for it.

I can see the Android phones beating Windows Mobile, and maybe RIM, but I doubt I will do better than the iPhone, especially in the future, when there are different iPhone models out there.

[Arcus]

I think the guy in the video needs to see a doctor. His breathing scares me,

[Bubba Satori]

Christ, that is one ugly phone.

Yabbut does it work. :rolleyes:

[Otaviano]

What a piece of garbage. Looks slow and doesn't seem to react quickly enough with accurately touch precision.

Lame, back to the drawing board.

I hate the fanboys!!!!!

You want to know what's slow? The contact app on my retail iPhone. You might want to hold off judgement on it until it's released, certainly until something better than a blurry YouTube video surfaces.

[eyephone]

I am an iphone fan, and I love apple, but I really hope that this android phone is great. I really feel that these cell phone manufacturers need to be kept on their heels, because the competition keeps us in a better position. Even though I would never own one, some of the iphone competitor phones are still great phones.

Could you just imagine what phones would be currently all the rage if the iphone and the iphones user interface never existed? razr v13, with red UI theme!

I am glad this competition between phones and cell providers exists.

[Hooka]

I think that google will epic fail on this. There is no space for another Smartphone platform in the market, and so far I didn't see any inovation they have to offer. People in general and developers are demonstrating very litlle interest on Android.
No space for another smart phone, isn't that what everyone said about the iphone? Don't ever underestimate the will of people. I for one hate AT&T and think they suck as a company and as a phone service. I loved my experience with T-Mobile. That phone os looked a lot cooler then the iphone os and once an app store is built for it you can bet your ass it aint going to take a year for you to be able to put a simple program on it. Google has just as much cash laying around as apple does, so be mindful of what you say pal.

[The Tall One]

What makes the iPhone amazing is its non-mobile approach to websites.

[gibbz]

What makes the iPhone amazing is its non-mobile approach to websites.

+1. My previous smartphones were awful to get online with.

[Stately]

The half thought out inventions of sore loosers, I tell ya boy. :rolleyes:
:cool::apple:

[xenotaku]

As it is always said with other products, competition is a great thing. I love my iPhone (really really love), but there are so many shortcomings and bugs. If the Android platform begins to sell really well, it will pressure Apple to fix the bugs and improve the platform. Maybe, just maybe, it will also put pressure on ATT to lower their monthly contracts which are absolutely absurd. While I doubt ATT would ever voluntarily lower their plans, Apple might push them to make it more competitive if Android phones on TMobile begin to sell well. One thing that needs changing? Text messages should be included, or at least be more affordable than they currently are.

[gkarris]

As it is always said with other products, competition is a great thing. I love my iPhone (really really love), but there are so many shortcomings and bugs. If the Android platform begins to sell really well, it will pressure Apple to fix the bugs and improve the platform. Maybe, just maybe, it will also put pressure on ATT to lower their monthly contracts which are absolutely absurd. While I doubt ATT would ever voluntarily lower their plans, Apple might push them to make it more competitive if Android phones on TMobile begin to sell well. One thing that needs changing? Text messages should be included, or at least be more affordable than they currently are.

Doubtful, on both accounts...

By the time Android comes out, Apple and AT&T will have a strong foothold on Touchscreen Cellphones...

[audiohhh]

best of both worlds. T-mobile and apple

[Lynxpro]

Competition is good. Maybe once this comes out Apple will work harder to get the software bugs out of the iphone.


The other good thing is that if this device gets Android going, then the mobile phone market will eventually be dominated by Unix/Linux operating systems and it will be yet another segment of the tech industry that Microsoft will get kicked in the nuts and to the curb after wasting a few billion dollars.

Plus, as more people switch to Macs, it may convince the likes of HP and Dell to invest into Linux development to save themselves from another Windows train wreck following the Vista debacle. They and others could team up with Google to put together their own Linux distro to be bundled standard with their machines and with Windows Whatever as an option.

Sure, that may not directly help Apple's market share, but a duo-opoly of commercial OS X/Linux development is a lot more healthy than the current Windows/OS X environment. Plus, application "ports" would be a whole lot more "native-esque" than now too.

[gkarris]

best of both worlds. T-mobile and apple

Are you getting tired of trying to keep up with the hacks? What about getting the newest phone? $599/$699 for a no-contract one to buy and hack that... :eek:

[Lynxpro]

I'm sure the kiddies with the sidekicks will want to upgrade to this sort of thing though.


...and it also gives T-Mobile leverage to continue the development of the Sidekick without cow towing to Microsoft. After all, now that Microsoft owns Danger (the creators of the Sidekick), you can best bet that they are trying to shoehorn Windows Mobile onto that platform.

Android could also save Motorola's handset division since that company always made great hardware but truly sucks at software development for their phones. And as an owner of two different RAZR generations, I can say that with experience. Their GUI sucks and is counter-intuitive [most unlike SonyEricsson's wares...they have great GUI]. How exactly is the alarm clock a "tool"? And don't get me started about the tooth-pulling efforts it takes to sync my Motorola branded Bluetooth ear piece with my RAZR. Funny how it syncs easily with everything else.

[gkarris]

...and it also gives T-Mobile leverage to continue the development of the Sidekick without cow towing to Microsoft. After all, now that Microsoft owns Danger (the creators of the Sidekick), you can best bet that they are trying to shoehorn Windows Mobile onto that platform.

Android could also save Motorola's handset division since that company always made great hardware but truly sucks at software development for their phones. And as an owner of two different RAZR generations, I can say that with experience. Their GUI sucks and is counter-intuitive [most unlike SonyEricsson's wares...they have great GUI]. How exactly is the alarm clock a "tool"? And don't get me started about the tooth-pulling efforts it takes to sync my Motorola branded Bluetooth ear piece with my RAZR. Funny how it syncs easily with everything else.

Android on an MS device? :eek:

LOL....

[Lynxpro]

It's going to fail. Anyone who wanted an advanced touch screen phone has bought one by now, and i can say that once your an iPhone user, you are going to one for a while. Android will do okay, but it's going to flop compared to what some of the people say and how well it will do.


They may all seem like "me-too" developments, but there are plenty of people who want touch screens but haven't bought an iPhone for various reasons. Mine would be the fact that I absolutely detest AT&T. Sure, I can go to the trouble of buying a first gen iPhone and hack it to run on T-Mobile (to who I am signed with), or I can wait for this phone to come out. Similarly, there are people who actually like Verizon and Sprint and thus they won't be buying an iPhone either, and definitely not a first-gen model either since even if you hack the thing, its not going to run on those CDMA based carriers.

It would be nice if the iPhone 3G actually supported the 3G band that T-Mobile is going to use in the US...alas, the iPhone does not support it so its EDGE only for the unlockers.

[nickXedge]

I never liked smartphones at all really until I got my iPhone. I was never a Sidekick fan and thats all this seems like to me. Might be too early to tell but it doesn't boast anything special. At this point nothing is new, ordinary or groundbreaking. iPhone has pretty much done it all, multi-touch screen, app store, navigation and now finally 3G. I'm not saying it's the best device the world's seen, but I am more than happy with it. Devices could come out and be similar to it and do well, but it's just not going to have the shock value that iPhone did when it came out.

[Lynxpro]

Android on an MS device? :eek:
LOL....


T-Mobile owns the brand "SideKick". While all current and prior models of the SideKick run on DangerOS (Java-based) and the Danger browser, the hardware has been built by others under contract to T-Mobile. Thus if Microsoft dumps the DangerOS and Danger browser and says that all future models are WindowsMobile only, T-Mobile can request that the hardware manufacturer of the next SideKick uses Android for the OS.

Thus Microsoft wasted half a billion dollars acquiring Danger in order to design the ZunePhone that nobody asked for. Ha ha.


<---Laughs at Monkeyboy Ballmer. For his sake, he better hope McCain doesn't go back on his comment from many months ago about appointing him to his Cabinet. Of course, I hope McCain's advisers are bright enough to select a different tech industry alum of Republican cloth. After all, there's plenty of them in Silicon Valley (just not at Apple or Google). TJ Rogers, Scott McNealy (yeah, I know, he's Bizarro Ballmer), or the Bruce Wayne/Tony Stark-esque Larry Ellison. :)

[Lynxpro]

i'm psyched to see how the android phone(s) play(s) out... while i don't see myself giving up my iphone anytime soon, it's SO nice to see that phone manufacturers and phone software developers are trying their hardest to compete. i can't wait for the days when the current motorola/sony ericsson/nokia software is phased out for something a lot more manageable and user friendly. the iphone and (hopefully) android are HUGE steps for the cell phone industry. :)


Personally, I'm hoping for dramatic change in the industry, kickstarted by a Motorola/SonyEricsson merger. Then quite possibly a Palm/RIM merger or a Palm/Nokia merger.

As for carriers, I really wish Vodafone would liquidate their holdings in Verizon Wireless and then make an unsolicited bid for AT&T's wireless division. I'm still cheesed off that the former SBC (now AT&T) was able to steal the original AT&T Wireless away from the clutches of Vodafone. We'd have much cheaper handsets today had Vodafone been successful. I'd really like to see all the American mobile phone companies be independent of the traditional telcos and actually be in competition with them again.

[Daim]

Looks like a neat alternative to the iPhone

+1

this rating system here really shows the blind apple fanboyism on this site.. every competitor is rated negatively

[Otaviano]

+1

this rating system here really shows the blind apple fanboyism on this site.. every competitor is rated negatively

Agree!

[skellener]

I don't see anything special in the phone. Maybe it's just me?

Plus, the keyboard looked kind of annoying to type on.Whuaaaah??Yeah, because the iPhone keyboard is sooooo wonderful! - NOT!!

[twoodcc]

i'm not worried that this phone will hurt the iphone. we'll see

[Zieg3rman]

I can't believe some of you people! Just because you own an iPhone and you're a Mac loyal fan, you think iPhone is automatically always better than other phones all around? I bet many of you have complained about your new 3G for various issues, or even exchanged it just to achieve "perfection".

HTC has been making phones long before Apple started the first iPhone. Don't get me wrong. I think iPhone 3G is a great device, but this new device by HTC is definitely newer than 3G. Don't you think it's only reasonable to pass on judgement after you have check it out? To say that it won't have the features of iPhone or that iPhone is better at this point is just lame.

qq

[wadejc85]

Considering that its what? 400 x 320 res I'd say its hard to say anything at all. All I know is that will be my next phone simply because ATT is out as is Verizon. That leaves T Mob... the catch is that I need a REAL keyboard. So that leaves either the Wing which has a neutered CPU so the GUI is sluggish or the Dream that sounds like it should be speedy.

as for anything special. I'd suggest going to youtube and search for Android GPS street view. Blows Maps on the iPhone out the water and then some.

Real keyboard? Meh. I've had them. I didn't care too much, because they can lag just as much as Apple's. Plus, the buttons are way too small for any real typing.

I *have* viewed other videos and websites showing the Android OS and the phone. Read the rest of the thread and you'll see that I made comments on them. Streetview will be absolutely useless until they have more cities, in my opinion.

[wadejc85]

Whuaaaah??Yeah, because the iPhone keyboard is sooooo wonderful! - NOT!!

:rolleyes:

I hated the keyboard on the Cingular 8125. The keyboard would lag just as much as Apple's keyboard, because it was going through Windows OS. I'm not saying Apple's keyboard is wonderful, but I don't think I compared Google's phone's keyboard to the iPhone in that comment. Hmm...

[Dontdothat317]

Lol, of course most of the people here are going to think this phone can't touch their Iphone, and in some cases it definitely will not. I have been an Iphone fan for quite some time but never bought one (I renewed my contract with ATT and got a Cingular 3125/HTC Star Trek right before Iphone came out). But you have to realize.. that anything an Iphone can do, these WM and Android phones can do as well.. the hardware supports it and there is less restriction on the software development. The Iphone shines with the delivery and the aesthetic factors of usage. It looks good, it appeals to the general public, and its easy to use. It will probably always outsell all other phones. But for people who are savvy enough to learn to cultivate the true potential of these WM and Android phones that aren't as proprietary as the Iphone's software and OS ultimately are rewarded with more functionality, albeit not as "flashy".

In addition, Jailbreaking your Iphone voids all your warranties. Also, I don't think AT&T offers a 5$ a month insurance plan for the Iphone ,but it DOES offer it with other smartphones. Tmobile currently offers such a plan for all their smartphones, and will likely offer the same for this Android.

And someone said that teens are likely to upgrade their sidekicks to this HTC Dream... actually they are more likely to upgrade to the Iphone because of its ease of use and "hip factor". The operating systems that rely much more on end users to create software for are most likely to be picked up by the power user.

[chadua]

How exactly is this a page one MAC rumor?

Does this have anything at all to do with apple?

[space1nvaders]

I am sure Linux users will love having more mobile devices to port applications to and customize, but the masses don't want to fool with a mini desktop environment. We geeks can relate but we take soooo much for granted. iPhone is keeping it very simple and stable with tons of support and accessories for hardware.

[Dontdothat317]

I am sure Linux users will love having more mobile devices to port applications to and customize, but the masses don't want to fool with a mini desktop environment. We geeks can relate but we take soooo much for granted. iPhone is keeping it very simple and stable with tons of support and accessories for hardware.


true.. but who wants to be just like the masses? :cool: The Iphone does an exceptional job of keeping it simple.. and restricted.
For me, when all is said and done, it boils down to functionality that doesn't void your warranty. The Iphone 3G is a great device and I am still definately considering getting one, but I need to see what this HTC Dream and the HTC Touch Pro have to offer over the Iphone 3G and ATT Tilt/HTC Kaiser

[bobertoq]

Finally! Frickin Finally!

[Insulin Junkie]

What I've read about android so far isn't impressing me too much, but I'm curious to see how successful it'll [eventually] become.

[AidenShaw]

How exactly is this a page one MAC rumor?

Does this have anything at all to do with apple?

Of the 10 stories on page 1 of MACrumors right now, only 2 are about MACs. This is actually a fairly high percentage if you look at recent history.

In other words, few of the stories on MACrumors are about MACs - so this is a page 1 story.

If you want to read stories about MACs, don't read MACrumors. :eek:

[Trajectory]

I think the slide-out keyboard is cute, but, it's like having a manual typewriter permanently attached to your phone. You're stuck with a qwerty keyboard that can't be changed ever. The touch-screen keyboard can easily be modified with a software update, plus you can call up various types of keyboards (like ones with a ".com" key for typing web addresses). I personally think that's much better.

Plus, with all those moving and sliding parts, there's more potential for it to break.

The linux world has proved that a totally open platform pretty much sucks. Its a nice hobby for people with no life.

That's a funny statement considering that a large majority of the web servers in the world run some flavor of Unix/Linux, and Apple's OS is based on Unix, too. I guess Steve Jobs has no life.

However, the one thing I don't like (actually, the one thing a I hate) is how quickly Mac loyalists are to bash other companies and their accomplishments and automatically assume they're just copying Apple... Sorry for the potentially harsh words, but I one of my biggest pet peeves is closed minded people.

Well, a lot of companies have copied from Apple over the years.

[AidenShaw]

I think the slide-out keyboard is cute, but, it's like having a manual typewriter permanently attached to your phone. You're stuck with a qwerty keyboard that can't be changed ever. The touch-screen keyboard can easily be modified with a software update, plus you can call up various types of keyboards (like ones with a ".com" key for typing web addresses). I personally think that's much better.

My Windows phone has both a slide out keyboard and a soft keyboard if I choose. (and I almost always choose the slide-out keyboard - I hate the soft keyboard on my Ipod Touch, simply horrible compared to physical keys IMO)

Do MacBooks suck because they have a QWERTY keyboard that can't be changed, ever?


Originally Posted by herbalizer
The linux world has proved that a totally open platform pretty much sucks. Its a nice hobby for people with no life.

That's a funny statement considering that a large majority of the web servers in the world run some flavor of Unix/Linux, and Apple's OS is based on Unix, too. I guess Steve Jobs has no life.


Wow, I'm ROTFLOL to see "Apple" and "open" linked together.

Comparing what is used on single-purpose web servers and what is needed for a multi-purpose desktop or handheld is silly.

It's like saying "most semi-tractor trucks have diesel engines, therefore a car with a gasoline engine is stupid". Gas makes sense in a car, Linux is a pain on the desktop.

Linux (or Windows Mobile or Symbian or Android or...) can all make sense in a phone or handheld - it's all about the apps, nobody cares what the underlying OS is.

[macsmurf]

Wow, I'm ROTFLOL to see "Apple" and "open" linked together.

You do realize that large parts of OS X is open source, right?

http://www.apple.com/opensource/

[Trajectory]

My Windows phone has both a slide out keyboard and a soft keyboard if I choose. (and I almost always choose the slide-out keyboard - I hate the soft keyboard on my Ipod Touch, simply horrible compared to physical keys IMO)

I'm glad that you enjoy using your slide-out qwerty keyboard on your Windows phone. I'm also glad the iPhone doesn't have or need one.

Linking what is used on single-purpose web servers and what is needed for a multi-purpose desktop handheld is silly.
Yea, that Open Office (http://www.openoffice.org/) is just silly.

[IJ Reilly]

You do realize that large parts of OS X is open source, right?

And what does "open" really mean, anyway? To some people, it's not open unless it's open source. To others, it means the APIs are published so that anyone can program for it.

[macsmurf]

And what does "open" really mean, anyway? To some people, it's not open unless it's open source. To others, it means the APIs are published so that anyone can program for it.

Well, most of the open source software used by Apple is either published under the BSD or the GPL license, which is about as open source as you can get. If you want to know what it means, the licenses are pretty straightforward to read.

[furrina]

Imagine how bad the apps they did reject were. :eek:

yeah, some really dreadful ones like NetShare and SlingPlayer. :rolleyes:

[gkarris]

yeah, some really dreadful ones like NetShare and SlingPlayer. :rolleyes:

I guess if you want to play only DRM -free content or watch your $100/month cable/dish, slingbox would be useful .. :rolleyes:

[elgrecomac]

I thought I was watching the Empire Strikes Back instead of a demo of a phone. That was some serious breathing! Must have been under intense pressure. :rolleyes:
:D

[IJ Reilly]

Well, most of the open source software used by Apple is either published under the BSD or the GPL license, which is about as open source as you can get. If you want to know what it means, the licenses are pretty straightforward to read.

True, but that wasn't my point. What I'm saying is, the word "open" is used in a variety of ways, but nearly always to mean something good. Not only is the definition of the word vague, it's arguably not always a good thing.

[synth3tik]

Looks like the person in the video had a hard time getting the phone to respond. Wonder if these issues will be on the production version of the phone.

[macsmurf]

True, but that wasn't my point. What I'm saying is, the word "open" is used in a variety of ways, but nearly always to mean something good. Not only is the definition of the word vague, it's arguably not always a good thing.

Could you be a bit more specific with regards to how your point is relevant to this discussion? I'm afraid I'm not following you.

[Lynxpro]

In addition, Jailbreaking your Iphone voids all your warranties. Also, I don't think AT&T offers a 5$ a month insurance plan for the Iphone ,but it DOES offer it with other smartphones. Tmobile currently offers such a plan for all their smartphones, and will likely offer the same for this Android.


And does AT&T have the same "no-tethering" clause with their other smart phones that they've instigated with the iPhone? If I didn't hate AT&T enough already, that would be the straw that broke the camel's back. Who do they think they are, Verizon of 2005 with their ridiculous crippled Bluetooth policies?

Apple should've also had a carrier-free option for sale here in the States.

[AidenShaw]

You do realize that large parts of OS X is open source, right?

http://www.apple.com/opensource/

That's so that I can install Apple OSX on my Dell Latitude, just like any of a dozen different Linux distributions? :p

"Open" in the context of Apple OSX simply means that you inherit all of the security holes from the open source code, without any of the benefits of being able to install and use it as you wish.

[AidenShaw]

I'm also glad the iPhone doesn't have or need one.

It *needs* one, but The Lord God Jobs says no, and the fanbois sing Hosanna to The Lord God Jobs.

I'll wager that the 3G Iphone will have a model with a slide out keyboard...

[macsmurf]

That's so that I can install Apple OSX on my Dell Latitude, just like any of a dozen different Linux distributions? :p

"Open" in the context of Apple OSX simply means that you inherit all of the security holes from the open source code, without any of the benefits of being able to install and use it as you wish.

As far as I'm aware the vast majority of security holes in OS X has been from the closed source components. There is nothing to suggest that open source is more insecure than closed source. In fact, quite the contrary.

With regards to the open source components, they are already part of OS X, so I'm not sure what you mean by installing it. If you want to get the source code, you can. If you want to change the source code, you can. If you want to recompile the changed components and reinstall them on Apple or non-Apple hardware, you can.

Not to be rude, but I don't think you know what you are talking about.

[7on]

It *needs* one, but The Lord God Jobs says no, and the fanbois sing Hosanna to The Lord God Jobs.

I'll wager that the 3G Iphone will have a model with a slide out keyboard...

I managed fine with a soft keyboard in 2002 with a Palm m515. Granted that keyboard was 10x better, but hopefully the iPhone's will be sped up with 2.1.

[GQB]

Google maps
Gmail
Google docs
Picasa
YouTube
Blogspot
Google Analytics
Google.org
$510 stock price ($85 IPO)

Yeah they stink...Most companies wish they could suck so bad.

Google does some smart programming, but they're not consumer focused.
Gmail, almost 5 years along and its still 'beta'? That's admission that they don't do 'finished products'. Just a lot of really cool experiments.

Don't fool yourselves... Google does advertising, not great consumer products.

Android will succeed only to the extent that some existing hardware manufacturer actually uses it to create a great customer experience. Now just what leads anyone to expect that they'll actually pull that off?

[IJ Reilly]

Could you be a bit more specific with regards to how your point is relevant to this discussion? I'm afraid I'm not following you.

Semantics aside, in particular I am wondering about the security model for Android. Apple really sweated this for the iPhone and it is by no means a given that Android being "open" makes this any easier for Google to manage. Harder, I suspect.

[macsmurf]

Semantics aside, in particular I am wondering about the security model for Android. Apple really sweated this for the iPhone and it is by no means a given that Android being "open" makes this any easier for Google to manage. Harder, I suspect.

Well, Android runs on top of a Linux kernel, so the basic security mechanisms are in place. There's really no basis to the belief that it's easier to make a secure closed source platform than an open source one. Security by obscurity is not a very good strategy and, in general, more eyes on the code equals better security. I've heard that all apps on the iPhone runs with root privileges, which is why it is so easy to jailbreak, and that seems like a particularly bad choice. Maybe Google can do better.

http://www.wired.com/politics/security/news/2007/10/iphone_windows

[jammerjames15]

i have tmoible and this isn't going to happen.

[yourfan]

The breathing is really annoying.

[SiliconAddict]

Android is somewhat of a rip-off of the iPhone OS, but has a little bit of a windows look and feel. Lots o' bugs so far. (simalar to vista copy of OSX)
The dream is cheap and flimsy. The screen has a texture to it and gets pretty dirty.
http://z-stand.com/dream.jpg

Lets examine this outright biased retarded comment

1. Only a handful of people in the freaking world have seen the dream in prototype format. So you are calling it cheap and flimsy based on???? Oh I forgot. You are a zealot. Next.

2. Android buggy? Like iPhone has been since day one? Next.

3. So I guess the iHype's screen is never dirty? I guess that is why Apple packages a cleaning cloth with the thing. Right. And where the heck are you getting this FUD that it has a texture? If true I welcome it. Some form of feedback other then a slick glass surface would be welcome. But hey. Its not Apple so obviously its not a good idea.

I'm so sick of the handful of zealots destroying Apple for the rest of us. Instead of treating Apple as just another company, who should be held up to the spotlight and told YOU ARE WRONG when they do questionable things, people have to suck up to them. Instead of calling Apple out for a bad decision, they justify their actions.
Why is it that the fracking fanbois have to come out of the woodworks anytime a competitor shows up. Are you that insecure about your OS\Device\Hardware\Company that you have to start flinging poo every time something new comes out that is remotely like the iWhatever?
Here's an original concept: Think for yourself. Instead of letting unkie Steve think for you. Neither the Dream nor Android are out. Both look promising, however unlike you I'm not condemning it until I see it in person. However I have formed an opinion on the iPhone based on use of a friends over the weekend and simply Apple's craptastical business practices.
My opinion is based on fact. Yours is based on what someone tells you to think. Who's do you think is better and doesn't come off as a zealot. So in short: Grow up....please.

[SiliconAddict]

Google does some smart programming, but they're not consumer focused.
Gmail, almost 5 years along and its still 'beta'? That's admission that they don't do 'finished products'. Just a lot of really cool experiments.

Don't fool yourselves... Google does advertising, not great consumer products.

Android will succeed only to the extent that some existing hardware manufacturer actually uses it to create a great customer experience. Now just what leads anyone to expect that they'll actually pull that off?

Google leaves their wares in beta so they can point and say its still beta when something goes wrong. Take for instance G-mail's outtage last week. I think the practice is crap. But there are many things about big G that are crap. I still am scratching my head on the fact that Google Groups doesn't have a calender system in place.

[AidenShaw]

As far as I'm aware the vast majority of security holes in OS X has been from the closed source components
...
Not to be rude, but I don't think you know what you are talking about.

7 of the 12 fixes in http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2647 were in closed source components, so I don't think that you can call it a "vast majority".

[eastcoastsurfer]

Google leaves their wares in beta so they can point and say its still beta when something goes wrong. Take for instance G-mail's outtage last week. I think the practice is crap. But there are many things about big G that are crap. I still am scratching my head on the fact that Google Groups doesn't have a calender system in place.

Google does some smart programming, but they're not consumer focused.
Gmail, almost 5 years along and its still 'beta'? That's admission that they don't do 'finished products'. Just a lot of really cool experiments.

Don't fool yourselves... Google does advertising, not great consumer products.

Android will succeed only to the extent that some existing hardware manufacturer actually uses it to create a great customer experience. Now just what leads anyone to expect that they'll actually pull that off?


Actually leaving things in 'Beta' is just Google being honest. No software is ever finished. You either continue to improve upon it or you throw it away. Would it make you feel better if Google labeled Gmail 'Production' instead? Leopard was labeled production and look at how many people waited for multiple point releases before updating. Apple would have been better off labeling the original release of Leopard 'beta'. Look at the recent release of Mobile Me. Definitely 'beta'. Again, Google is just being honest about how software development works.

[Edmar]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_0_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5B108 Safari/525.20)

my wife saw a demo of android, she then went and bought an iPhone 3g.

[macsmurf]

7 of the 12 fixes in http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2647 were in closed source components, so I don't think that you can call it a "vast majority".

I understood your point to be that open source is less secure than closed source. While it's true that you inherit the open source bugs you also inherit the features. Also, it is unclear if you mean the components used by Apple but not produced by them, or the stuff they produce themselves.

The OSS produced by Apple does not seem particularly useful if you want to build your own OS X, but the point made in the post you commented on seemed refer to the OSS Apple got from others. Clearly, Apple has found OSS to be incredibly useful.

So if one wants to make the argument that OSS is for idiots that would seem to include the people who built OS X.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure I misunderstood you at some point, so it's not clear to me where we disagree.

[AidenShaw]

I understood your point to be that open source is less secure than closed source.

I don't want to argue the point about the relative security of open vs. closed source - we'll be able to find opinions on both sides of the issue and won't get anywhere.

I think the point for Apple using open source, however, is that when a security problem in an OSS component is made public - Apple OSX is at risk until a patch is issued. Apple can't control the publicity, unlike their closed components (assuming that the bug is reported to Apple privately first).

OSX users are at risk during that window, such as the recent delay in fixing the DNS problem on OSX.

[ert3]

Wirelessly posted (iPhone 8gb: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_0_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5B108 Safari/525.20)

this preview just barely shows a fully functional phone. It's like it was stolen out of r&d like the photos of the boomerangs ps3 controller.

[IJ Reilly]

Well, Android runs on top of a Linux kernel, so the basic security mechanisms are in place. There's really no basis to the belief that it's easier to make a secure closed source platform than an open source one. Security by obscurity is not a very good strategy and, in general, more eyes on the code equals better security. I've heard that all apps on the iPhone runs with root privileges, which is why it is so easy to jailbreak, and that seems like a particularly bad choice. Maybe Google can do better.

That's great, so long as no applications are installed. Once applications are installed, anything can happen. Apple has instituted controls that will prevent malicious applications from proliferating even if they are created. What has Google done? I would say there's really no basis to the belief that it's easier to make a secure open source platform than a secure closed one.

[IJ Reilly]

Definitely 'beta'. Again, Google is just being honest about how software development works.

I doubt it. I look at the quality of what they've done, and often beta is the best description of the product. I pointed out the horrors of Google Earth, which never seem to improve, and the deficiencies of Google Maps, which are also left unfixed. The truth is, Google is trying to do too much at once, and it shows.

[macsmurf]

I don't want to argue the point about the relative security of open vs. closed source - we'll be able to find opinions on both sides of the issue and won't get anywhere.

I think the point for Apple using open source, however, is that when a security problem in an OSS component is made public - Apple OSX is at risk until a patch is issued. Apple can't control the publicity, unlike their closed components (assuming that the bug is reported to Apple privately first).

OSX users are at risk during that window, such as the recent delay in fixing the DNS problem on OSX.

The DNS problem may or may not be a good example. It was kept secret in order to give the manufactures time to fix it, but leaked before it was supposed to be made public. Also, AFAIK, it didn't have anything to do with OSS/closed source.

With regards to the rest, you describe the problem of relying on components that you have gotten from somewhere else. Whether it be open or closed source you still have the same problem.

You seem to suggest that Apple should make everything themselves, and that does not seem feasible. It would result in code with more security holes than external components that have withstood the test of time.

[NDPTAL85]

Lets examine this outright biased retarded comment

1. Only a handful of people in the freaking world have seen the dream in prototype format. So you are calling it cheap and flimsy based on???? Oh I forgot. You are a zealot. Next.

2. Android buggy? Like iPhone has been since day one? Next.

3. So I guess the iHype's screen is never dirty? I guess that is why Apple packages a cleaning cloth with the thing. Right. And where the heck are you getting this FUD that it has a texture? If true I welcome it. Some form of feedback other then a slick glass surface would be welcome. But hey. Its not Apple so obviously its not a good idea.

I'm so sick of the handful of zealots destroying Apple for the rest of us. Instead of treating Apple as just another company, who should be held up to the spotlight and told YOU ARE WRONG when they do questionable things, people have to suck up to them. Instead of calling Apple out for a bad decision, they justify their actions.
Why is it that the fracking fanbois have to come out of the woodworks anytime a competitor shows up. Are you that insecure about your OS\Device\Hardware\Company that you have to start flinging poo every time something new comes out that is remotely like the iWhatever?
Here's an original concept: Think for yourself. Instead of letting unkie Steve think for you. Neither the Dream nor Android are out. Both look promising, however unlike you I'm not condemning it until I see it in person. However I have formed an opinion on the iPhone based on use of a friends over the weekend and simply Apple's craptastical business practices.
My opinion is based on fact. Yours is based on what someone tells you to think. Who's do you think is better and doesn't come off as a zealot. So in short: Grow up....please.

To answer your question, I think the 'zealots' is better because Apple has a track record of actually making great products. Google has a track record of dominating in search and then creating a bunch of products in other areas that fail to dominate.

[NDPTAL85]

true.. but who wants to be just like the masses? :cool: The Iphone does an exceptional job of keeping it simple.. and restricted.
For me, when all is said and done, it boils down to functionality that doesn't void your warranty. The Iphone 3G is a great device and I am still definately considering getting one, but I need to see what this HTC Dream and the HTC Touch Pro have to offer over the Iphone 3G and ATT Tilt/HTC Kaiser

My guess is Google wants to be just like the masses seeing as how the company isn't a Goth high school clique that just wants to be different to be different. Being like the masses means the masses will buy your product. Or maybe you think Google wants Android to achieve only niche success?

[macsmurf]

That's great, so long as no applications are installed. Once applications are installed, anything can happen. Apple has instituted controls that will prevent malicious applications from proliferating even if they are created. What has Google done?


I don't know. I'm not an expert on Android. Maybe they did something or maybe they left it up to the provider. However, let's say you find an expert on Android. He will probably tell you all you could ever care to know about the security of Android. Now find an expert on the iPhone security. He will tell you next to nothing.

When people pointed out that full system privileges for all applications on the iPhone (including safari) was a very bad idea the answer from Apple was: silence.

See the difference?

I would say there's really no basis to the belief that it's easier to make a secure open source platform than a secure closed one.

You think it is a coincidence that the most secure platforms today are also open-source?

[macsmurf]

To answer your question, I think the 'zealots' is better because Apple has a track record of actually making great products. Google has a track record of dominating in search and then creating a bunch of products in other areas that fail to dominate.

In other words:

Dominating products:

Google: 2 (search, advertising)
Apple: 1 (iPod)

[Juo100]

Even if the Anroid can do everything better than the iPhone the simple fact it wont have easy iTunes/Mac integration will be why I wont be getting one.

[7on]

Even if the Anroid can do everything better than the iPhone the simple fact it wont have easy iTunes/Mac integration will be why I wont be getting one.

Maybe someone will wright in that feature? It's possible.

[Silencio]

In other words:

Dominating products:

Google: 2 (search, advertising)
Apple: 1 (iPod)

Apple: 3 (iPod, obviously; iTunes Store, #1 music retailer in the US; Apple Retail Stores, #1 in revenue per square foot of any retail chain in the US)

[macsmurf]

Apple: 3 (iPod, obviously; iTunes Store, #1 music retailer in the US; Apple Retail Stores, #1 in revenue per square foot of any retail chain in the US)

Well, I was thinking globally, but Apple has definitely done a lot of things right.
I'm not really sure how well iTunes is doing in Europe, and I think the nearest Apple Store is in London (I live in Denmark)

[IJ Reilly]

You think it is a coincidence that the most secure platforms today are also open-source?

Probably, even if this is true, which I don't believe it is necessarily.

As I pointed out, once an application is installed, anything can happen. Apple has created a limited means of developing and installing applications and the kill-switch to disable rogue applications if they ever get through. I don't see that Android has any similar feature, and given that it's going to be licensed to all comers suggests that such a method isn't going to be possible.

[macsmurf]

Probably, even if this is true, which I don't believe it is necessarily.

As I pointed out, once an application is installed, anything can happen.


Not true. An exploit in an application can (at most) run arbitrary code with the same rights as the application. To really mess things up (on a sane OS) the exploiter will need to penetrate an extra layer of security around the administrative functions. However, if you run your applications with root privileges, as it seems to be the case with the iPhone, you're right. Google hopefully has a healthier respect for security than Apple apparently has.

When it comes to Android, the security mechanisms seem to be fairly well documented here: http://code.google.com/android/devel/security.html


Apple has created a limited means of developing and installing applications and the kill-switch to disable rogue applications if they ever get through.


What happens when the rogue application disables the kill switch? What about applications that aren't rogue but buggy? In order to answer this you will need full-disclosure from Apple, which probably isn't forthcoming.


I don't see that Android has any similar feature, and given that it's going to be licensed to all comers suggests that such a method isn't going to be possible.

What stops Nokia from implementing this if they want?

[IJ Reilly]

I think you're surmising a lot on the basis of very limited information. The point I've been trying to make is that (1) "open" is not a term with a fixed definition ("open source" is just one of them), and (2) "open source" does not necessarily solve all problems, and potentially creates a few others.

[macsmurf]

I think you're surmising a lot on the basis of very limited information. The point I've been trying to make is that (1) "open" is not a term with a fixed definition ("open source" is just one of them)


True, but again I don't see why that's relevant. With regards to Android, the license in question is Apache v2 which is very similar to the BSD license.

This license basically gives you the right to use the code as is or modify it and use it commercially. There is no obligation to publish the modifications.


, and (2) "open source" does not necessarily solve all problems, and potentially creates a few others.

Well, I never said it did, and I never said new problems cannot arise because it is open source (although I'm at a loss to think of one). Security, however, isn't one of them.

[Wolfpup]

I'm potentially really excited about Android. For some reason I wasn't expecting the interface to look that polished (at least I think it does...hard to tell from that video). The great thing is it's an open platform, and it should be available from a lot more carriers. May end up suiting me a lot better than the iPhone, since it lacks software I need and doesn't run on a carrier I would use.

[iNfowarrior]

Worthless. Can't think of any other way to describe it.

The Android phone has no potential whatsoever. The iPhone has already killed it and will only continue to blow it away.

T-Mobile App Store? LOL please. How attractive sounding. We have our own "app store" with t-mobile quality. LOL.

It'll never work. This has FLOP written on it in big bold letters.

[Stella]

People are so concerned about "But Google hasn't put any safe guards into Android to prevent rouge applications"....

... yet these people will go onto macupdate.com or versiontracker.com and download an OSX app without batting an eye lid!!!

Who is to say that OSX App 1.0 doesn't send your AddressBook and send it across the internet...

iPod App == OSX App.

( Yes, people will say virus checker / Little Snitch, but not everyone uses these apps, and Little Snitch doesn't describe the contents being transmitted, only that a request is being made to a particular URL ).

[macsmurf]

People are so concerned about "But Google hasn't put any safe guards into Android to prevent rouge applications"....

Actually, according to the documentation they have - to some degree.


... yet these people will go onto macupdate.com or versiontracker.com and download an OSX app without batting an eye lid!!!

Who is to say that OSX App 1.0 doesn't send your AddressBook and send it across the internet...


Well, Apple likes to keep information like that secret. Not sure why.

[AidenShaw]

People are so concerned about "But Google hasn't put any safe guards into Android to prevent rouge applications".

One advantage of the glossy glass screen -- it doubles as a mirror to help with the application of rouge, lipstick, eye shadow and other makeup.

[IJ Reilly]

Well, I never said it did, and I never said new problems cannot arise because it is open source (although I'm at a loss to think of one). Security, however, isn't one of them.

I realize, but I also don't accept that open source is automatically more secure than proprietary code. This threadlet got started when someone suggested that the Android OS was going to be good because it's "open." My question is "why?" I don't think I've seen an answer but I believe the question has been beaten to death anyway.

[Rot'nApple]

What's special about Android is that it is completely open. All of the firmware inside is open source. You can do anything you want with it.

Yeah, like hit the icon buttons two, three, four times before activation.

Not owning one, I hope the iPhone doesn't do that! :eek:

[AidenShaw]

Yeah, like hit the icon buttons two, three, four times before activation.

You should have seen the alpha versions of the Iphone! :eek:

Seriously though, this is a poor video of an early prototype. Don't write Android off just because of a few odd things.

Android won't kill the Iphone. Apple's tight-fisted control freak business model will kill the Iphone.

If Android is 90% as good (meaning the user experience) as the Iphone, Apple will have to go back to being an MP3 music player company. The "closed" Iphone development/appstore model will die.

[andy721]

I hate the fanboys!!!!!

You want to know what's slow? The contact app on my retail iPhone. You might want to hold off judgement on it until it's released, certainly until something better than a blurry YouTube video surfaces.

Well they will always improve the iPhone with updates.
I don't know what you mean by Fanboys I'm not a fan of any of this **** nor do I own an iPhone, they haven't perfected anything yet, still waiting for that day to come but I won't hold my breath.

[kaiwai]

Outside of search and advertising Google stinks!

What the hell else do you need? you're making it sound like there is something hugely missing from what they offer.

No, I don't want **** like yahoo with their 'portal' - people who like 'portals' can cram them somewhere uncomfortable.

[quantumbits]

I'm intrigued enough by Android and disappointed enough by both the iPhone and Crackberry that I'll postpone my switch from September until January.

Count me among those folks whom likes the idea of an open platform. I'm willing to consider a closed platform provided that it offers additional benefit and utility over its open brethren. Otherwise, I'll take the added flexibility and security any day.

[crazyyankeefan]

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=525177

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=545387

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1662678&tstart=0

For some of you, please at least read those threads first before you can even say that iPhone 3G is down-right better than this HTC phone or others. There's also another thread comparing performance of iPhone 3G to other 3G phones in the same location, and 3G is simply just worse. However, I couldn't find this thread at this point. I have an iPhone myself too, and I bet some of you have had problems mentioned in those threads or even made some complain. I like my iPhone too, but it's only reasonable to think that sooner or later something (not named iPhone 4G) better will come up.

[CoolHand777]

I felt dirty after watching that video, what with the soft focus and the heavy breathing. Like some low budget porn. :eek:

[macsmurf]

I realize, but I also don't accept that open source is automatically more secure than proprietary code. This threadlet got started when someone suggested that the Android OS was going to be good because it's "open." My question is "why?" I don't think I've seen an answer but I believe the question has been beaten to death anyway.

Well, I think it has already been answered, but i'll summarize. There are essentially three perspectives here; a manufacturer, a developer, and a consumer perspective.

For the manufaturer, Android is first of all a benefit because the are allowed to use it (for free). They don't have to reinvent the wheel by implementing the network stack themselves etc. A lot of companies use a Linux kernel in their embedded systems for precisely that reason. Even Apple used large amounts of code from BSD when they created OS X. In addition, if Android is widely adopted, companies have the option of cooperating on software that are not cost effective for them to develop themselves. The companies will compete on hardware, as they always have, and on whatever proprietary changes to the OS they choose to make.

For the deveploper, this means that an application probably will be easier to port from one company's phone to another. This means that developing apps to the phone will become more economically attractive than it would be to make an app for a specific phone. Also, developers are free to discuss issues with each other and have the option of drilling down into the OS (and supply patches to Google) when they experience unexpected behaviour. In addition, developers of third-party apps will be able to write in new functionality and get it adopted into the main OS. This will hopefully, in time, lead to a more stable and feature-rich OS base.

For the consumer, this will hopefully lead to a better, less bugridden experience. The consumer will have a wider choice of hardware and apps and will be locked in to a lesser degree when contemplating a switch to another phone.

Of course, these benefits rely on wide adoption and aren't available just because the OS is open. Rather, the openness of the OS facilitates this. This isn't a new concept. It has been proven to work, not only when it comes to embedded systems and OS in general, but also in programming environments such as java (the most widely used programming language today). When a java developer makes an application today, chances are that he will be using several open source components in his final product.

[FleurDuMal]

Anyone who wanted an advanced touch screen phone has bought one by now.

No they haven't

[Wolfpup]

Worthless. Can't think of any other way to describe it.

The Android phone has no potential whatsoever. The iPhone has already killed it and will only continue to blow it away.

How has the iPhone killed it? Unless the hardware and software just don't come together, Android has huge potential. Seems like it's striking just about at the perfect time too. No one's done what Android's trying to do very well yet.

No they haven't

Nooo kidding :)

[Macinposh]

Seriously though, this is a poor video of an early prototype. Don't write Android off just because of a few odd things.


If Android is 90% as good (meaning the user experience) as the Iphone, Apple will have to go back to being an MP3 music player company. The "closed" Iphone development/appstore model will die.


I would say :"Nah.."


Apple...sorry... iPhone will prosper in the future just fine. It has and will make it´s clientee : pre teens,tech-heads and in the future tech-allergics and in general people who need multimedia capable phones but are not willing to tinker.

Android will deliver it´s biggest blows against symbian and especially Windows mobile devices,in wich manufacturers are allready pissed of because of the lisencing fees.
The tinkerers (wich will be intrested in the relatively open developement) will be the forefront in creating content quickly. I think android will be the Linux-On-Stereoids of mobile world.

Hopefully at least.. It would push the other telephone/os developers to do better stuff.

My 0.23 dollars.

[IJ Reilly]

Well, I think it has already been answered, but i'll summarize. There are essentially three perspectives here; a manufacturer, a developer, and a consumer perspective.

That's a whole lot of "hopefullys." I think this comes down to the previously debated end-to-end vs. component model question. Apple has pursued the former with substantial success, in terms of creating "whole widgets" that produce a satisfying user experience. Microsoft has spent their corporate lifetime doing the latter, but as we discussed at great length in another thread recently, they're now trying to figure out how to duplicate the end-to-end user experience with the component model. Some (myself in particular) questioned their ability to make that happen with no control over the hardware side of the equation. I also pointed out in that thread that you could count the number of big successes with the component model on one finger, and that one was essentially a freak of nature.

So now Google is trying the component model, and some think it's got a good chance of succeeding. I don't see much reason to expect it, beyond the fact that it's got the Google brand name associated with it -- but then again, only with the OS, and not the finished product that consumers will hold in their hands. That's created by somebody else. Big problem, if the hope is to compete with Apple's model of complete control over the finished product.

I also have to point out that Google has absolutely no experience with operating systems or consumer products. And as I said before, they seem to lack the corporate attention span to create a spit-and-polished final product, which I think is necessary to grab and hold consumer's attention.

My conclusion is that the odds are way against them making a big splash in this market, and that these adverse odds are not substantially mitigated just because the OS is "open."

[Lynxpro]

Google leaves their wares in beta so they can point and say its still beta when something goes wrong. Take for instance G-mail's outtage last week. I think the practice is crap. But there are many things about big G that are crap. I still am scratching my head on the fact that Google Groups doesn't have a calender system in place



Uhm, out of fairness, didn't .Me/.Mac also suffer an outtage at the same time as Gmail? Is MobileMe listed as in Beta? Seriously, if you are going to throw stones at Google, then you also need to throw them back at Apple. Gmail is free, after all. The last time I checked, MobileMe is subscription based.

Can we all stop arguing about Android? Let's choose to view the platform as a positive because at the very least, it might ensure that Microsoft is kicked out of the mobile phone industry once and for all. And anything that hurts Microsoft is good not only for Apple, but Google, Sony, and plenty of others.

[macsmurf]

That's a whole lot of "hopefullys."


Yes. Unfortunately, I'm unable to see into the future. My apologies ;)

I think this comes down to the previously debated end-to-end vs. component model question. Apple has pursued the former with substantial success, in terms of creating "whole widgets" that produce a satisfying user experience. Microsoft has spent their corporate lifetime doing the latter, but as we discussed at great length in another thread recently, they're now trying to figure out how to duplicate the end-to-end user experience with the component model. Some (myself in particular) questioned their ability to make that happen with no control over the hardware side of the equation. I also pointed out in that thread that you could count the number of big successes with the component model on one finger, and that one was essentially a freak of nature.


I disagree completely. Android isn't meant for end users but for phone manufacturers as a basis for their final phone OS. Nobody will have to hunt for drivers because a phone does not have user replacable parts.

When it comes to software, Apple has never been end-to-end. They have alway cooperated with software manufacturers and the App Store is only the most recent example.

As I've mentioned ad nauseum, OS X is built on BSD and Next components so the end-to-end only refers to the way Apple interacts with the end user.


So now Google is trying the component model, and some think it's got a good chance of succeeding. I don't see much reason to expect it, beyond the fact that it's got the Google brand name associated with it -- but then again, only with the OS, and not the finished product that consumers will hold in their hands. That's created by somebody else. Big problem, if the hope is to compete with Apple's model of complete control over the finished product.


The phone manufacturers will have complete control over the code base. They won't be able to dictate how other companies should behave, but they can take their code and run, and create something entirely different if they want.


I also have to point out that Google has absolutely no experience with operating systems or consumer products. And as I said before, they seem to lack the corporate attention span to create a spit-and-polished final product, which I think is necessary to grab and hold consumer's attention.


Android is not a consumer product but a template from which you can create a consumer product. Also, Google has very special needs when it comes to data handling, so Google has been working with OS components for years. At Google's level a lot of things need to be tweaked such as the file system.


My conclusion is that the odds are way against them making a big splash in this market, and that these adverse odds are not substantially mitigated just because the OS is "open."

OK. I've think my point has been made clear so let's leave it at that.

[IJ Reilly]

Yes. Unfortunately, I'm unable to see into the future. My apologies ;)

No? I find my perfect future vision to be such a great convenience.

The distinction between the end-to-end and component models is being missed. Short of recreating a lengthy discussion in another thread, I will summarize the models with the examples of the Windows/PC vs. Mac, and Symbian vs. iPhone. I think you can see the distinction being made here and it has nothing to do with software development or drivers or or the source of the code inside. It has to do with the user experience with the final product. Any manufacturer with control over only half of that experience is going to be at a substantial disadvantage I believe. Suffice to say the iPhone hasn't been a huge hit for nothing. The very fact that as you say "Android isn't for end users" illustrates my point. If each Android-based phone will be different, then how will Android build an identity in the minds of consumers? I believe Google would have been better off designing their own, complete "Google Phone" -- this consumers would have understood, and it would have the benefit of the huge Google brand identification. That product probably would have succeeded if it was any good whatsoever.

Anyway, we've paid our money and placed our bets. ;)

[macsmurf]

The distinction between the end-to-end and component models is being missed. Short of recreating a lengthy discussion in another thread, I will summarize the models with the examples of the Windows/PC vs. Mac, and Symbian vs. iPhone. I think you can see the distinction being made here and it has nothing to do with software development or drivers or or the source of the code inside. It has to do with the user experience with the final product.


I agree with the last sentence, but drivers have to do with the user experience. Hunting for them is, at least, part of my user experience with Windows.


Any manufacturer with control over only half of that experience is going to be at a substantial disadvantage I believe.


Well, as I've been trying to tell you the manufacturer has control over the entire experience. Just as Apple has control over it, although they built OS X on Next and BSD software. Where is the difference?



Suffice to say the iPhone hasn't been a huge hit for nothing. The very fact that as you say "Android isn't for end users" illustrates my point. If each Android-based phone will be different, then how will Android build an identity in the minds of consumers?


It really shouldn't. Users should care about the phone in it's entirety, not the stuff the software is build on. How many of Apple users care (or even know) about the BSD and Next stuff in OS X? How many users know (or even care) that their GPS device or router is running Linux? How many, for that matter, knows that the iPhone is running on an OS X kernel?

Developers and manufacturers should care about Android, not the end user. It's not about the OS for the user. Never has been.

[IJ Reilly]

Well, as I've been trying to tell you the manufacturer has control over the entire experience. Just as Apple has control over it, although they built OS X on Next and BSD software. Where is the difference?

So it becomes another Symbian? What's the point? Possibly I'm missing something here but I'm still trying to understand why Google creating yet another OS for mobile phones is an important event, and not in spite of, but because the consumer products will have no brand identification with Google. I keep hearing how it's going to be an "iPhone killer," for no reason that I can see other than Google is behind it.

[princigalli]

let it be a free platform and Iphones will have to adapt. It was about time this new platform came out. Apple IPhone's selling model is disgusting and I hope it will die out soon. Bz the way, if you are in Germany and think you can't end your contract with the T-Mobile state monopoly, you can stop paying bills for 3 months. After that T-Mobile will end the contract for you. Once the contract is ended you should pay your bills so you will stay bill free and have no more obligation to Apple/Telecom/German Government.

[Nicolecat]

Judging from the first poor quality video on youtube...and what seems like press release videos (with poor sound and echo).

I feel like it will definitely be a trail to explore for those that aren't apple followers.

Personally, having a Qwerty keyboard is just another movable appendage to easily break. :(

[macsmurf]

So it becomes another Symbian? What's the point?


Does the manufacturer have full control with Symbian? Is it free? That's the point.

[Nicolecat]

I don't know if anyone has linked to this yet...just skimmed the rest of the posts
...but tmonews.com has some more info up. www.tmonews.com (http://tmonews.com/2008/08/android-may-be-here-sooner-then-we-think/)

Not sure as to the source behind it...but after reading some of the posts below the article, someone said they would be offering this (most likely the HTC Dream) to t-mobile customers that have been with t-mobile for 2 years (which sounds like a bogus high number) for $99...with presales starting September 17th.

Others are saying the price will fall more in the $150-$399 ranges.

Thoughts?

[maokh]

hahahahahah. Android is open source?! Yeah right. come on guys .. :rolleyes: Android is not open source. Its just as open source as symbian was in 1997. Just because symbian is open now doesnt make it retroactively open sourced for developers in 1997. Google is no different than Apple in my opinion.

And for those who disagree with me, please provide the url of the source code. I would love to see it.

The code you write for Android is in java ... but with its own custom set of API's. No native apps. Oh sure, more google promises that maybe someday they might, but dont count on it. And also, dont count on carriers accepting your native code even if an SDK was released.

There are also lots of little surprises that will make topics like gmail privacy a complete yawn.

The biggest challenge with Android is the user experience. It has a lot of potential for a great user experience. its snappy and pretty, but it still has a long way to go. You could probably thank the TI OMAP platform for this really...its running on good hardware. You can have the best engine under the hood, but if the user experience sucks, its all over after the first handset.

Who is going to build that UI? I hope google doesn't. The current UI is very piss poor, like the rest of their products, and I do not really like the path they are taking. So who does that leave? tmobile? there's another bad idea. Im a bit confused.

The only thing good google has going for themselves is the potential, mere potential, of running on a wide variety of handsets and becoming a real mobile platform. But they have a lot of competition in that industry.

"christmas season" is way too soon for any of this coming together well.

Wish them the best of luck.

heh.

[tmiw]

The code you write for Android is in java ... but with its own custom set of API's. No native apps.

At least you can run apps on the phone itself in the first release. iPhone restricted you to Web based apps only, unless you wanted to jailbreak. Also, Java's pretty much near native speeds now, anyway, so being able to write your Android app in C probably won't make much of a difference in speed, anyway--and will make it much harder to have applications that work on all Android devices.

[IJ Reilly]

Does the manufacturer have full control with Symbian? Is it free? That's the point.

Maybe, but it's a doubtful virtue. That's my point.

[macsmurf]

hahahahahah. Android is open source?! Yeah right. come on guys .. :rolleyes: Android is not open source. Its just as open source as symbian was in 1997. Just because symbian is open now doesnt make it retroactively open sourced for developers in 1997. Google is no different than Apple in my opinion.

And for those who disagree with me, please provide the url of the source code. I would love to see it.


Here is the stuff available now: http://code.google.com/android/kb/licensingandoss.html

By the way, is Symbian open?


The code you write for Android is in java ... but with its own custom set of API's. No native apps. Oh sure, more google promises that maybe someday they might, but dont count on it. And also, dont count on carriers accepting your native code even if an SDK was released.


They not only say they will, they name the license. If they don't release the source code, I for one will be flappergasted.

[czarthp]

I am looking forward to it. I wanted an IPhone but 3g and gps was not enough for me to break my contract. plus I get 1500 mins for $50 with t-mobile. with an Iphone $50 will get me 450 mins. add unlimited text and data and I will be paying 10-15 dollars more than what I pay now. bottom line its not worth it to switch to me, so I got a 16gb Ipod touch now, I will be getting the andriod phone so I will have thebest of both worlds. :D

[furrina]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stella
People are so concerned about "But Google hasn't put any safe guards into Android to prevent rouge applications".


One advantage of the glossy glass screen -- it doubles as a mirror to help with the application of rouge, lipstick, eye shadow and other makeup.

******** awesome

[impact_blue]

I love all the comments about how it's gonna fail. On this particular phone it might, but this isn't OSX where it's only based on the iphone. Android will come up in better more advanced phones as well.


I love my iphone, but im sure Google/some mobile phone company will come up with something that will eventually give the iphone a run for it's money. The fanboys just can't stand competitors. :rolleyes:

[IJ Reilly]

I love all the comments about how it's gonna fail. On this particular phone it might, but this isn't OSX where it's only based on the iphone. Android will come up in better more advanced phones as well.


Yup, if you keep shooting in the dark, eventually you will hit something.

[JAYGEE]

I'm sure Android will do fine ;)

[Millah]

I think Android will destroy all of the other iClones out there trying to compete with Apple, but I still think Apple will remain dominant over Android. While Android is definitely nice, it still is just trying to play catch-up with the iPhone and doesn't really revolutionize anything it just is more of an alternative to iPhone. iPhone will always continue to sell well because of the name and the fact that they were the first of its kind, Apple laid down the blueprint for this new generation of mobile devices and these competitors are just following behind Apple.

Also nobody has even come close to matching the user experience on the iPhone. iPhone really still stands out compared to Android because Android still feels like a spiced up mobile interface while iPhones OS is unlike any other mobile phone and the interface still feels one of a kind. If iPhone had never come out, then Android would have been a breakthrough, but since the iPhone was such a revolution and is still years ahead of anything out there, Android doesn't have that same effect anymore. Plus the iPhone is just now starting to become mass market friendly with the price drop, so with more and more people getting one its going to be hard to convince the mass-market NOT to get an iPhone. The enthusiasts and the hardcore might be easier to convince if they give more technical features and stuff, but the mass market is going to want an iPhone because of the great user experience and interface.

Its nice to have some real competition for Apple, we all know Apple works best when they have to compete :)

[realhunter36]

T-mobile has great minute plans but very week signals.
3G Iphone is the trend yo~