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MacRumors
Jan 9, 2004, 03:35 PM
The current "Top Video" on the sidebar of this CNet story (http://news.com.com/2100-1045-5137846.html) is a video of HP showing off the new HP branded iPod.

The new iPod is blue as previously noted and has an "HP" logo on the back.

http://www.macrumors.com/downloads/hpipod.jpg

http://www.macrumors.com/downloads/hpipodback.jpg

The video goes on to discuss HP's reasons to go with the iPod and iTunes.

Powerbook G5
Jan 9, 2004, 03:37 PM
It looks kind of ugly...is that a translucent blue case or is it just the low quality of the picture giving off the illusion of one?

dennis88
Jan 9, 2004, 03:38 PM
It looks weird.

Maclarny
Jan 9, 2004, 03:39 PM
That looks pretty disgusting. Good marketing idea though.

Raid
Jan 9, 2004, 03:40 PM
So it's exactly like any other iPod, fine. But that blue colour doesn't do anything for me... but it might be a bad pic... I hope :(

D0ct0rteeth
Jan 9, 2004, 03:43 PM
The "HP Digital Music Player" - identical but in a blue/grey

"HP is partnering with Apple Computer to provide an exceptional digital music experience to consumers as part of its larger digital entertainment system offering. Starting this spring, HP will deliver an HP-branded digital music player based on Apple's iPod, the No. 1 digital music player in the world, and Apple's award-winning iTunes digital music jukebox and pioneering online store to HP's customers. As part of the alliance, HP consumer PCs and notebooks will come preinstalled with Apple's iTunes jukebox software and an easy-reference desktop icon to point customers directly to the iTunes Music Store, ensuring a simple, seamless music experience (see separate news release issued today)."

Much better public speaker than that damn Microsoft girl at MACworld SF who "attemted" to demo Microsoft Office 2004 :)

They begin shipping in June. The deal is for the traditional iPod only - not the iPod mini

- Doc

lindmar
Jan 9, 2004, 03:47 PM
look gross, too weird for me.
but that bill gates video is even funnier!
the center piece of the home..
funny

CrackedButter
Jan 9, 2004, 03:47 PM
At least we know where to go if we want a blue iPod, that isn't a mini one.

Maclarny
Jan 9, 2004, 03:48 PM
Hmmm...now that I tihnk about this new HP iPod I have some concerns. Doesn't this seem a lot like when apple started liscensing it's own OS to ther companies. Could Apple be pitching off a really good product only to have their own profits get sucked away?

Sayhey
Jan 9, 2004, 03:48 PM
Some people will like the blue color, others won't. No big deal. More choices in iPods is a big deal and this partnership with HP is a massively big deal! This along with the Pepsi distribution and other initiatives show that Apple is not going to repeat the mistakes of the past and let others take the market lead away from their innovative products. If Apple had done this in the 80's with the macOS this would be a very different world.

Gymnut
Jan 9, 2004, 03:48 PM
I wonder what the size availability and pricing will be. Hopefully this won't come around and bite Apple in ass much like the PowerPC clones.

fBaran
Jan 9, 2004, 03:49 PM
I don't know what you see, but to me it looks exactly the same, save the color.

tristan
Jan 9, 2004, 03:49 PM
Hey! That guy's got my garage door opener! Give it back!

:D

yoman
Jan 9, 2004, 03:52 PM
Originally posted By Gimnut:


"
I wonder what the size availability and pricing will be. Hopefully this won't come around and bite Apple in ass much like the PowerPC clones."


apple in this scenario is making the clones not licensing the technology off. With HPs omnipresence on retail outlets it would be possible to sell millions of undercover ipods all over the world. More volume would allow cheaper prices for everyone allowing apple to maintain profit margins.

My opinion of course.

edgar_is_good
Jan 9, 2004, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by Maclarny
Hmmm...now that I tihnk about this new HP iPod I have some concerns. Doesn't this seem a lot like when apple started liscensing it's own OS to ther companies. Could Apple be pitching off a really good product only to have their own profits get sucked away?

I think this is very different, because (as I understand it) Apple is actually making these for HP (or someone is making them for Apple making them for HP), so apple no doubt actually gets directly money per ipod. I also have no doubt that Apple has made HP agree that they will not undersell Apple (which I thought was why Dell pulled the ipod from their site).

I think this will get them more into families who go the HP home route, and the ipod will be for joe six-pack (of expensive beer) and young people who care about brand awareness. Just saying HP player isn't as cool as ipod.

SPG
Jan 9, 2004, 03:55 PM
Since you can already get an iPod for windows, I don't exactly get the need to make a blue one. Licensing iTunes to HP is a whole other can o' worms.

BTW. The color? Eeeeew.

feature
Jan 9, 2004, 03:57 PM
I don't know what you see, but to me it looks exactly the same, save the color.

It also has the HP logo on the back inplace of the apple logo.

Le Big Mac
Jan 9, 2004, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by Maclarny
Hmmm...now that I tihnk about this new HP iPod I have some concerns. Doesn't this seem a lot like when apple started liscensing it's own OS to ther companies. Could Apple be pitching off a really good product only to have their own profits get sucked away?

Why? Apple is simply making a customized iPod for HP, and selling them to them at wholesale. They probably have an agreement on the markup, or at least some mechanism that will prevent HP from undercutting sales. They're not giving away anything; they're just improving distribution channels.

fBaran
Jan 9, 2004, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by feature
It also has the HP logo on the back inplace of the apple logo.

Oh wow. That's so NOT gonna make me buy on now. [insert online sarcasm 8)]

yoman
Jan 9, 2004, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by SPG
Since you can already get an iPod for windows, I don't exactly get the need to make a blue one. Licensing iTunes to HP is a whole other can o' worms.

BTW. The color? Eeeeew.

maybe the color Carly showed was just the prototype color. :) Better Color in real model. (Hopefully)

Bob Knob
Jan 9, 2004, 03:58 PM
The video is one of the funniest things I've ever seen...

"Why did Apple come to HP... HP's skill/technology/engineering..."

Hmm, HP is the innovator? That's like saying the guy who put the first whitewalls on tires invented the wheel. I think she has been drinking the same water that Gates does.

D0ct0rteeth
Jan 9, 2004, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by fBaran
I don't know what you see, but to me it looks exactly the same, save the color.

Yep. identical.. except that it is grey.

If it was deep polished black with a brushed aluminum back and brushed aluminum scroll wheel... blue backlighting..

That would be a sexy alternative, but its just a different color plastic..

Nothing special or artistic.

- Doc

uberman42
Jan 9, 2004, 04:00 PM
I like the grey/blue looks. But it is odd when Carly turned the player over and the HP logo is etched instead of the Apple logo. Surreal. Savvy move by HP and Apple.

PDubNYC
Jan 9, 2004, 04:00 PM
as I tried to submit, Thurrott is reporting on winnetmag.com the following:

"Exclusive: HP Working to Get WMA on iPod
__ HP's blockbuster deal with Apple will have one exciting side effect, I discovered today. The company will be working with Apple to add support for Microsoft's superior Windows Media Audio (WMA) format to the iPod by mid-year. You heard it here first."
http://winnetmag.com/Article/ArticleID/41423/41423.html

That could open up the audience for the iPod significantly, in my opinion

bryanzak
Jan 9, 2004, 04:00 PM
Here's an e-mail I sent to CNET's Video Feedback (videomail@cnet.com)


I do not have Real or Windows Media Player installed.

Could you please support QuickTime format. Thanks

It's telling that your "User Opinions" links on this page: http://news.com.com/1601-2-5138506.html leads to

32% thumbs up for Real: http://download.com.com/3302-2167-10153493.html
66% thumbs up for WMP: http://download.com.com/3302-2139-5948260.html

and 70% thumbs up for QuickTime: http://download.com.com/3000-2139-10252320.html?tag=lst-0-4

So, please, listen to the opinions :)

Thanks

Bryan

Mr.Hey
Jan 9, 2004, 04:03 PM
Apple will move to the all new concept design of the iPod mini and will abandon the current design; allowing HP to continue to market the pervious while making money off both (brilliant).

I've perviously owned the 2G iPod and now the 3G and automatically identified the flaws of the touch technology for the iPod -- the buttons were much too sensitive but the iPod mini solves all this.

The iPod minis are not just so that Apple can compete in those markets but is intended to be the future of the portable music player for Apple.

buseman
Jan 9, 2004, 04:04 PM
I bet we'll see more companies licensing the iPod from now..

ALoLA
Jan 9, 2004, 04:05 PM
I thought AAC was better?

eric_n_dfw
Jan 9, 2004, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by Bob Knob
The video is one of the funniest things I've ever seen...

"Why did Apple come to HP... HP's skill/technology/engineering..."

Hmm, HP is the innovator? That's like saying the guy who put the first whitewalls on tires invented the wheel. I think she has been drinking the same water that Gates does. Um - let's not get too high and mighty here. HP's PC's may be a dime-a-dozen, but they have been inovators in a lot of markets since 1939 (and a garage start-up just like Apple)

If you have to choose a Pee-Cee maker as a partner, they're not a bad choice:
From http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/abouthp/
#1 globally in inkjet, all-in-one and single-function printers, mono and color laser printers, large-format printing, scanners, print servers, and ink and laser supplies

#1 globally in total server revenue and shipments

#1 globally in total disk storage systems, total external disk storage systems and open storage area networks

#1 globally in network and system management software

#1 globally in notebook PCs

#1 globally in Pocket PCs

#2 globally in PC shipments

#2 globally in PC revenues

#2 globally in handhelds

#3 globally in IT services

As a stock-holder, I say, "Bravo!"

RalphNumbers
Jan 9, 2004, 04:08 PM
I think it's kind of interesting how she claimed that Apple came to them for this deal. That's not how I imagined it happening; one would think there would be more people making pseudoPods by now if Apple were actively seeking, or even passively accepting, this kind of deal.

As for the device itself, that pale blue didn't really appeal to me, but it could have been alot worse. I'm just glad they didn't put a big logo on the front.

nagromme
Jan 9, 2004, 04:09 PM
Thurott is known for Apple-bashing non-journalism. You may safely ignore his comments on WMA being "superior." (Superior because you'd rather have Microsoft in control of your music rights??)

And his speculation about Apple using WMA to please HP... sounds like total fiction. We'll see I guess.

Back on topic: any pictures of the back?

That blue looks terrible, but I'm sure it's just the video. You can't trust a video frame for color.

edesignuk
Jan 9, 2004, 04:10 PM
Looks good to me, this will (IMO) do Apple the world of good. An even bigger share of the legal download market, and millions more iPods sold (be they HP or Apple branded). People will get them and see the great design & quality of what they know is an Apple design & product, this in turn may pave the way for more "switches".

Plissken
Jan 9, 2004, 04:10 PM
the HP "iPod" is not coming until june and it will be the same as the current 3G iPods which makes it seem to me that by June Apple will have a new revision out for sure leaving HP to sell the older tech for a little bit less. make sense to everybody else?

Mr.Hey
Jan 9, 2004, 04:11 PM
The back is chrome just like Apple's but with the HP symbol.

arn
Jan 9, 2004, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by PDubNYC
as I tried to submit, Thurrott is reporting on winnetmag.com the following:


Seeing as Thurrott can't draw a graph

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=614957&highlight=graph#post614957

I wouldn't put too much into his insights.

arn

jettredmont
Jan 9, 2004, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by PDubNYC
as I tried to submit, Thurrott is reporting on winnetmag.com the following:

"Exclusive: HP Working to Get WMA on iPod
__ HP's blockbuster deal with Apple will have one exciting side effect, I discovered today. The company will be working with Apple to add support for Microsoft's superior Windows Media Audio (WMA) format to the iPod by mid-year. You heard it here first."
http://winnetmag.com/Article/ArticleID/41423/41423.html

That could open up the audience for the iPod significantly, in my opinion

"Microsoft's superior Windows Media Audio (WMA) format" ... and there went all credibility ...

mrsebastian
Jan 9, 2004, 04:11 PM
from the picture it looks like ****** :eek: course it could look better in real life and we'll see. i'm wondering however what the storage capacity and pricing will be?

Bunzi2k4
Jan 9, 2004, 04:12 PM
hmm... i thought the hp ipod looked cool... but then again... i don't like the white ipods... (still wishes there were black ipods)

slowtreme
Jan 9, 2004, 04:13 PM
WMA on iPod and iTunes sure would make me happy, I like WMA. But I don't see this happening. :(

PowerBook User
Jan 9, 2004, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by bryanzak
Here's an e-mail I sent to CNET's Video Feedback (videomail@cnet.com)


I do not have Real or Windows Media Player installed.

Could you please support QuickTime format. Thanks

It's telling that your "User Opinions" links on this page: http://news.com.com/1601-2-5138506.html leads to

32% thumbs up for Real: http://download.com.com/3302-2167-10153493.html
66% thumbs up for WMP: http://download.com.com/3302-2139-5948260.html

and 70% thumbs up for QuickTime: http://download.com.com/3000-2139-10252320.html?tag=lst-0-4

So, please, listen to the opinions :)

Thanks

Bryan
QuickTime Player seems to work much easier than WMP or Real. Sometimes the other two don't want to work.

I like iTunes being preinstalled on the computers. I'm not as sure about the HP iPod, but it seems to be a good idea.

edesignuk
Jan 9, 2004, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by mrsebastian
from the picture it looks like ****** :eek: course it could look better in real life and we'll see. i'm wondering however what the storage capacity and pricing will be?
So I take it the Apple iPod looks like ***** as well? :rolleyes: It's the same damn thing in a different colour!!!

Timothy
Jan 9, 2004, 04:14 PM
Ms. HP stated that they will begin implementing the iTunes technology across their product line; which made me wonder...

do you think they'll build an iTunes-like app for the iPaq? That would be interesting...

jettredmont
Jan 9, 2004, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by eric_n_dfw
Um - let's not get too high and mighty here. HP's PC's may be a dime-a-dozen, but they have been inovators in a lot of markets since 1939 (and a garage start-up just like Apple)

If you have to choose a Pee-Cee maker as a partner, they're not a bad choice:


Yeah, and they make some wicked cool gas chromatographs ...

IMHO, amongst the big PC makers, I agree that HP at least has some class (and they didn't get it from Compaq, that much is certain!) and a moderate-to-high level of non-price innovation.

JoeRadar
Jan 9, 2004, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by fBaran
Oh wow. That's so NOT gonna make me buy on now. [insert online sarcasm 8)]
I know a lot of people who are essentially forced to buy a PC for their work but would love an iPod. I doubt they could order an iPod on a separate purchase order, but now they can add the iPod to their PC equipment purchase from HP.

Bear
Jan 9, 2004, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by bryanzak
Here's an e-mail I sent to CNET's Video Feedback (videomail@cnet.com)


I do not have Real or Windows Media Player installed.

Could you please support QuickTime format. ... Others sending email to them could help as well. I just suggest that everybody sends feedback in in their own words. And be poilte.

I just sent a letter in myself.

eyelikeart
Jan 9, 2004, 04:19 PM
I kinda like the pale blue color. I think it's a cool variation on an original personally. I hope this does something for Apple, even more than the iPod did on its own.:D

slowtreme
Jan 9, 2004, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by nagromme
(Superior because you'd rather have Microsoft in control of your music rights??) How is having Apple in control on my music rights any better or worse.

RalphNumbers
Jan 9, 2004, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by JoeRadar
I know a lot of people who are essentially forced to buy a PC for their work but would love an iPod. I doubt they could order an iPod on a separate purchase order, but now they can add the iPod to their PC equipment purchase from HP.

Embezzled iPods for all!
Hooray for enabling white collar crime! :p

mrsebastian
Jan 9, 2004, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by edesignuk
So I take it the Apple iPod looks like ***** as well? :rolleyes: It's the same damn thing in a different colour!!!

sorry, that's what i mean, that i don't like the color.

wtv
Jan 9, 2004, 04:26 PM
I don't like the looks of either. They remind me of a -nowadays considered stone-age technology- hearing aid.

See http://www.nvvs.nl/foss/fw24_kasttoestel.htm


Wijnandt T. de Vries

__________________________

'If you think education is
expensive, try ignorance.'

(Derek Bok, Harvard president)

Powerbook G5
Jan 9, 2004, 04:27 PM
It works for me, it looks just like the regular iPod, but with the HP logo on the back just like everyone has been saying.

elgruga
Jan 9, 2004, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by SPG
Since you can already get an iPod for windows, I don't exactly get the need to make a blue one.

Yes - why bother with this ugly hPod thing?

Carly Fiorentina has been taking public speaking tips from Steve Jobs, too!

I wonder where this is all going to go?

dornball
Jan 9, 2004, 04:29 PM
i think this is great news!
this mean that millions more people will have an ipod and, even better, itunes. more profits for apple and selling more ipods will mean that they can bring the price down and still sit comfortably in the realm of profitability.

though it wil be interesting to see how hp prices their ipod. hopefully the 2 companies, apple & hp, will have similar prices.

-dornball

arn
Jan 9, 2004, 04:30 PM
hp branded

fabsgwu
Jan 9, 2004, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by PDubNYC
as I tried to submit, Thurrott is reporting on winnetmag.com the following:

"Exclusive: HP Working to Get WMA on iPod......

The company will be working with Apple to add support for Microsoft's superior Windows Media Audio (WMA) format to the iPod by mid-year. You heard it here first."
http://winnetmag.com/Article/ArticleID/41423/41423.html

That could open up the audience for the iPod significantly, in my opinion

Superior WMA?! is that a joke?

x86isslow
Jan 9, 2004, 04:34 PM
if i had to pick between the colors apple chose on the minis:o and the hp blue, i'd take the hp blue


quote:Originally posted by mrsebastian
from the picture it looks like ****** course it could look better in real life and we'll see. i'm wondering however what the storage capacity and pricing will be?

PDubNYC
Jan 9, 2004, 04:35 PM
regardless of your opinion of Thurrott or whether WMA is a superior format, I think that it would be nothing but a good thing to support multiple formats. I have friends that have their music in WMA format (keep your knee-jerk reactions to yourselves) and that is the only thing holding them back from buying an iPod.

Bottom line, more formats=more customers for Apple.

ALoLA
Jan 9, 2004, 04:36 PM
Who would you rather have "controlling" your music? A company known for buggy, bloated, and security-challenged software? Or a company famous for innovation, easy-of-use, and products that are on everyone's wishlist? :D

scem0
Jan 9, 2004, 04:36 PM
Ugly, but I'm sure someone will find it pleasing for them.

But it really is just a blue iPod... I was picturing a bit of a form change or something.

scem0

ITR 81
Jan 9, 2004, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by ALoLA
I thought AAC was better?

AAC is better.
MS is not sound specialist, but Dolby is.

niter
Jan 9, 2004, 04:38 PM
Black would have been a nicer color, but really, I am not too worked up about the color as I like the white iPod the best.

I think this deal is great, but I am left questioning one thing, as many have. Why is there going to be an HP iPod when the current iPod is already Windows compatable. If it were up to me, I would have had a time period, just like last fall for student who bought a laptop, where if a person bought an HP computer the could get a huge discount off of an iPod. Many would buy the iPod and the Apple symbol would get flashed around more in the PC community.

In all, I think the move, whichever way approached, is a great thing for Apple.

Sayhey
Jan 9, 2004, 04:38 PM
I hope Carly is not just blowing smoke and it was Apple that brought this to HP. It would mean that Apple is aggressively looking for partners to adopt their technology instead of just hoping the consumers stay with them. The more PC vendors that put iTunes and iTMS on their desktops the better. The more companies that adopt AAC instead of WMA the better still. And the move of companies like HP to market Apple products which will bring more financial resources to Apple's continued R&D is the best hope for the future in all of this.

Trekkie
Jan 9, 2004, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by Maclarny
Hmmm...now that I tihnk about this new HP iPod I have some concerns. Doesn't this seem a lot like when apple started liscensing it's own OS to ther companies. Could Apple be pitching off a really good product only to have their own profits get sucked away?

Little bit of difference here. I didn't see anything that said Apple sold them rights to make their own, they are selling them the iPods.

So apple is making money on every HP transaction. Where as last time Apple licensed the software - which has a minimal cost most likely and the clones were able to make all they want on the hardware

szark
Jan 9, 2004, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by Bunzi2k4
hmm... i thought the hp ipod looked cool... but then again... i don't like the white ipods... (still wishes there were black ipods)


Then maybe you should buy a Carbon iPod (http://www.colorwarepc.com/products/accessoryDetails.aspx?categoryId=170&optId=1695) from ColorWare. :)

Booga
Jan 9, 2004, 04:41 PM
I'm disappointed. Not by the announced HP deal-- that rocks. I'm disappointed that the Apple rumor mill still hasn't produced an HP-buys-Apple rumor yet! Slackers!

I'm sure Fiorina is getting bored not having a nice big battle with her board over an acquisition, and is probably all set to spice things up again.

So what's next? Just to stoke the rumor fire, I'm gonna guess an HP-branded xServe G5 cluster that they'll install as part of a service contract.

fabsgwu
Jan 9, 2004, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by PDubNYC
regardless of your opinion of Thurrott or whether WMA is a superior format, I think that it would be nothing but a good thing to support multiple formats. I have friends that have their music in WMA format (keep your knee-jerk reactions to yourselves) and that is the only thing holding them back from buying an iPod.

Bottom line, more formats=more customers for Apple.

I agree that its good for compatibility, however audio tests have proven AAC the winner in terms of quality.

the_dalex
Jan 9, 2004, 04:45 PM
From a marketing perspective, there are good reasons to play WMA, because that would pull Microsoft's last rug out from under them. If I were SJ, and if I wanted to stick it to Microsoft in the music world I would...

1) Build up the iPod into the most popular music player (done)

2) Build up the ITMS into the most popular online music store (done)

3) Let them criticize the only "flaw" being that it doesn't play Microsoft's proprietary format (done)

4) Suddenly allow the iPod to play WMA via a firmware update, in a final death blow (pending?)

When I look at the business model Apple has chosen, I don't see why this wouldn't work. We all are aware that the ITMS breaks even or at best makes a small profit, and the money is in the iPods. You don't want to sell music in WMA format, because you want the iPods to sell... but why not let the iPod play WMA? The only thing I can think of is that Microsoft would want a royalty or licensing fee, but if Apple came to them now, Microsoft can't deny them or gouge them without being dragged into court after their statements about "choice" being so important. Plus, I imagine if you just want a license to decode instead of encode, it wouldn't cost much.

I personally believe that the ITMS is the best music store out there, and I know SJ agrees. Let customers try them all with their iPod, and they will use the best service (or a combination of them all), but the important thing is...they have an iPod.

Now is the perfect time for the death blow, with the upcoming Pepsi promotion and the new HP crossover. Apple can completely take over the market by opening the iPod to WMA, and Microsoft has basically challenged them to so they can't get in the way. Microsoft's predictable behavior has them in a real pickle, but they've walked themselves into a trap.

Bob Knob
Jan 9, 2004, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by eric_n_dfw
Um - let's not get too high and mighty here. HP's PC's may be a dime-a-dozen, but they have been inovators in a lot of markets since 1939 (and a garage start-up just like Apple)

I also like HP stuff and have been using various HP printers and scanners for years.
However, her statements in the video clip clearly contradict themselves. In the opening she says how HP looked at Apple's system and found it superior, then she goes on about how Apple "came" to HP because of HP's engineering and integration skills. As is the iPod and iTunes runs on Macs and Windows, HP is doing nothing but repackaging it.

BTW, none of your stats you posted have anything to do with innovation... and no, I am not saying Apple invented the player market either, they just made a very successful one.

bishopduke
Jan 9, 2004, 04:48 PM
!

ThomasJefferson
Jan 9, 2004, 04:49 PM
I guess every little income stream helps the bottom line.

This year will be exciting for Apple.

Powerbook G5
Jan 9, 2004, 04:49 PM
It has been my experience that HP printers don't play well with Mac OS X, though. My family's all in one doesn't work with Panther, only Jaguar, and my girlfriend has tried two different kinds of HP printers, one of which came with her iMac when she bought it at CompUSA as a package deal. I always assumed that HP just didn't play well with Apple, so this is a bit of a surprise.

the_dalex
Jan 9, 2004, 04:51 PM
Hmmm, I suppose Microsoft would want the iPod to play WMA, because their control of the format means they will be collecting royalties from every non-Apple online store for each song sold... and one royalty per iPod. They just wouldn't be the market leader, and I know ultra-competitive Bill's ears are steaming at that very thought. They will make bad business decisions just so they can "win" something.

Wow, a win/win situation in my book... anyone else know why Apple would not want to support WMA at this point in the game? One or two years earlier and I would understand, but the time is ripe.

Stoffel
Jan 9, 2004, 04:53 PM
Well, that thing does not impress me much. The "real" ipod looks much cooler. Moreover, its blue colour cannot beat the pink of the mini ipods ;-)

mmmbop
Jan 9, 2004, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by Mr.Hey
Apple will move to the all new concept design of the iPod mini and will abandon the current design; allowing HP to continue to market the pervious while making money off both (brilliant).

Now that's interesting. I love it when a strategy appears more like a game plan. Cunning, very cunning indeed.

ITR 81
Jan 9, 2004, 04:55 PM
If Apple was ever sold or merged with anyone I think it would be IBM.

Just my opinion.

I rather see press pic then this video capture.

But it looks almost like a blue granite style colour. I like it. I would buy one if I was in the market for one. Is it me or does the back of the HP iPod look like it says 10GB??

I could see HP selling G5 PM's and PB's in the near future but only with a name change and colour change.

I wonder if Compaq will end up being part of the HP iPod and iTunes deal later on??


I could see the iPaq dropping it's current OS and picking up a OSX mini OS.

montecristo
Jan 9, 2004, 04:56 PM
Most people seem to be focusing on the blue-pod (which I think is ugly, but just matches their printer covers), but I think the big deal for Apple is the pre-installation of iTMS on every HP computer. This tactic is exactly how MS-DOS got so big and how Internet Explorer ended up dominating. People who have not already decided for themselves to enter into downloaded music or computer jukeboxes will have the decision thrust upon them when they buy the HP computers -- at that point, Apple has already won, whether the consumer buys the hPod or the iPod, because at that point, these are the only two options that work with iTunes. (when iTunes is already pre-installed, very few people are going to actively seek out another jukebox software just so they can have the #2 player or #2 software out there...)

Those people who are actively thinking about buying an MP3 player already know about the iPod -- they are the savvy consumers and the addition of the hPod will not hurt Apple, because those folks will probably prefer the apple product anyway (unless they really like the blue/gray color, but then, Apple is preventing them from getting the Dell player or the Napster-Samsung player, if color was their main decision criteria).

So, the way I see it, Apple doesn't lose out. They retain control over their technology and they use the muscle and breadth of HP to get their iTMS/iTunes out to the masses.

CrackedButter
Jan 9, 2004, 04:56 PM
Originally posted by Powerbook G5
It has been my experience that HP printers don't play well with Mac OS X, though. My family's all in one doesn't work with Panther, only Jaguar, and my girlfriend has tried two different kinds of HP printers, one of which came with her iMac when she bought it at CompUSA as a package deal. I always assumed that HP just didn't play well with Apple, so this is a bit of a surprise.

Strange, I have a HP and its worked well with 10.2 and 10.3, I even used it with linux. This is because HP supplies damn good drivers. But hey where's there pleasure there is also pain, and you might be experiencing the pain.

airbag
Jan 9, 2004, 04:56 PM
I'll bet this is just a brilliant move from Apple to get rid of 3G iPods, and make way for the 4th generation coming this summer!

Atleast I hope so. If not, I'm a bit puzzled by this new strategy...

ITR 81
Jan 9, 2004, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by Powerbook G5
It has been my experience that HP printers don't play well with Mac OS X, though. My family's all in one doesn't work with Panther, only Jaguar, and my girlfriend has tried two different kinds of HP printers, one of which came with her iMac when she bought it at CompUSA as a package deal. I always assumed that HP just didn't play well with Apple, so this is a bit of a surprise.

I've never have liked HP printers.
I've always recommended Canon printers though. With just the drivers off of Panther my 1 yr old Canon runs nearly perfect.

Mr.Hey
Jan 9, 2004, 04:58 PM
Originally posted by PDubNYC
regardless of your opinion of Thurrott or whether WMA is a superior format, I think that it would be nothing but a good thing to support multiple formats. I have friends that have their music in WMA format (keep your knee-jerk reactions to yourselves) and that is the only thing holding them back from buying an iPod.

Bottom line, more formats=more customers for Apple.


What's more important here is the audio code. If Apple can't hold onto this then it doesn't matter what device is used if it can't play the popular audio code. It then becomes worthless and it won't matter to the end user how much it costs or what it looks like or who makes it. There was a real danger of this happening to Apple with the MS' service.


And Apple realized this and if they didn't do anything to change it this time the same thing would occur to AAC/iTMS/iPod that happened to their desktop line.

gwuMACaddict
Jan 9, 2004, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by SPG
Since you can already get an iPod for windows, I don't exactly get the need to make a blue one.

exactly!! the itunes liscense is one thing... this is another. i feel like it cheapens the whole product...

QCassidy352
Jan 9, 2004, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by montecristo
Most people seem to be focusing on the blue-pod (which I think is ugly, but just matches their printer covers), but I think the big deal for Apple is the pre-installation of iTMS on every HP computer. This tactic is exactly how MS-DOS got so big and how Internet Explorer ended up dominating. People who have not already decided for themselves to enter into downloaded music or computer jukeboxes will have the decision thrust upon them when they buy the HP computers -- at that point, Apple has already won, whether the consumer buys the hPod or the iPod, because at that point, these are the only two options that work with iTunes. (when iTunes is already pre-installed, very few people are going to actively seek out another jukebox software just so they can have the #2 player or #2 software out there...)

Those people who are actively thinking about buying an MP3 player already know about the iPod -- they are the savvy consumers and the addition of the hPod will not hurt Apple, because those folks will probably prefer the apple product anyway (unless they really like the blue/gray color, but then, Apple is preventing them from getting the Dell player or the Napster-Samsung player, if color was their main decision criteria).

So, the way I see it, Apple doesn't lose out. They retain control over their technology and they use the muscle and breadth of HP to get their iTMS/iTunes out to the masses.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. I think this can only be a positive for apple.

montecristo
Jan 9, 2004, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by gwuMACaddict
exactly!! the itunes liscense is one thing... this is another. i feel like it cheapens the whole product...

Giving HP the iPod may have been what it took to get iTunes on every HP (you can't get something for nuthin'). But Apple probably also figured that, "Hey if we don't make the iPod for them, they'll just enter the market with something else, another competitor to the iPod, and they might not support iTunes."

QCassidy352
Jan 9, 2004, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by gwuMACaddict
exactly!! the itunes liscense is one thing... this is another. i feel like it cheapens the whole product...

but I'm sure that HP would not have been interested without the ipod license in addition to the iTMS. iTunes doesn't make HP any money - unless having it encourages people to buy another product that is itself profitable - like the HP ipod.

So why would HP have gone along with this if all they got was an iTMS license? That really does them no good, by itself...

Bunzi2k4
Jan 9, 2004, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by szark
Then maybe you should buy a Carbon iPod (http://www.colorwarepc.com/products/accessoryDetails.aspx?categoryId=170&optId=1695) from ColorWare. :)

*gasp* i want one!... too bad I already have an ipod... hmm... spray paint sounds good right now...







(jk ipod is too cool to spray paint)

mrsebastian
Jan 9, 2004, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by QCassidy352
...So why would HP have gone along with this if all they got was an iTMS license? That really does them no good, by itself...

they of course make profit from the hpod, but i'm sure they'll use it for all kinds of marketing and to generate more interest in the hardware.

D0ct0rteeth
Jan 9, 2004, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by ITR 81
I could see the iPaq dropping it's current OS and picking up a OSX mini OS.

We have been slacking.. its been over 24 hours now and nobody has mentioned an iPaq = iWalk rebrand as a trade in return.

Slackers. :)

http://mythologieproductions.com/misc/iwalk.gif

Mr.Hey
Jan 9, 2004, 05:24 PM
Originally posted by mrsebastian
they of course make profit from the hpod, but i'm sure they'll use it for all kinds of marketing and to generate more interest in the hardware.


Just look at all the media and user attention they've gotten so far. I've personally checked out their site for their 30" LCD TV. :)
I would never buy gateway *yuck* and if I had to buy anything PC I'll pick HP; I've always liked them.

jero
Jan 9, 2004, 05:34 PM
looks better than the mini ipod.

jwoodget
Jan 9, 2004, 05:34 PM
I think some people can't see the wood for the trees. Apple is after bigger fish than a few million iPod sales. They want AAC/Fairplay to be THE standard for music distribution. I doubt we'll see WMA decoding on the iPod unless its in a death-throw.

Selling more iPods would be a short term benefit of licensing WMA but Apple then cedes the high-ground. iTMS is the portal and ipod is the player. As we've seen with the reverse engineering of Real 10, its very difficult to control the market unless you restrict some component of it. The iPod is all that's left to control and it will be guarded.

The codec is the keystone for the digital media business. Apple is looking at the long term (as is Microsoft).

Rower_CPU
Jan 9, 2004, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by jwoodget
I think some people can't see the wood for the trees. Apple is after bigger fish than a few million iPod sales. They want AAC/Fairplay to be THE standard for music distribution. I doubt we'll see WMA decoding on the iPod unless its in a death-throw.

Selling more iPods would be a short term benefit of licensing WMA but Apple then cedes the high-ground. iTMS is the portal and ipod is the player. As we've seen with the reverse engineering of Real 10, its very difficult to control the market unless you restrict some component of it. The iPod is all that's left to control and it will be guarded.

The codec is the keystone for the digital media business. Apple is looking at the long term (as is Microsoft).

Exactly.

Supporting WMA on the iPod would undermine Apple's stake in AAC+Fairplay. iTunes for Windows opens the AAC door to Windows users, so there's no excuse that WMA is holding people back from using a superior codec.

kangaroo
Jan 9, 2004, 05:40 PM
A half a loaf is better than no loaf. As Ms. Fiorina pointed out, Apple can't match HP's scale and distribution network. What's more, IMO, a significant % of people in the PC camp [close and lock the the door] on Apple because they think (right or wrong) 'proprietary' or 'not compatible'. By having HP put its arms around the iPod (and by extension--Apple) that door is instantly unlocked and opens up both a new mindset and new buying opportunities.

For those of you who are (apparently) going to lose sleep over the blue color, get a grip--overtime they'll probably offer additional colors and/or match Apple's colors.

Snowy_River
Jan 9, 2004, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by PDubNYC
"...support for Microsoft's superior Windows Media Audio (WMA) format..."


This sure does seem to indicate a bias, doesn't it? Most reviews I've read place M4A (aka AAC) as the highest quality, mainstream audio compression format. (The only one that I've read being placed on a nearly equal or superior footing with it is Ogg Vorbis, but that one really isn't very mainstream.) Certainly, of the formats that provide DRM, everything I've read has pointed to M4P (aka protected AAC) as being better than WMA.

So, as someone else said, there goes this guy's credibility...

ccuilla
Jan 9, 2004, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by PDubNYC
as I tried to submit, Thurrott is reporting on winnetmag.com the following:

"Exclusive: HP Working to Get WMA on iPod
__ HP's blockbuster deal with Apple will have one exciting side effect, I discovered today. The company will be working with Apple to add support for Microsoft's superior Windows Media Audio (WMA) format to the iPod by mid-year. You heard it here first."
http://winnetmag.com/Article/ArticleID/41423/41423.html

That could open up the audience for the iPod significantly, in my opinion

This is unlikely to happen anytime soon. Apple is trying (hard) to kill off WMA. Supporting it right now would be suicide. Dumb. Dumb move. Won't happen.

Remember, this is a format war too.

mrsebastian
Jan 9, 2004, 05:46 PM
Originally posted by kangaroo
A half a loaf is better than no loaf. As Ms. Fiorina pointed out, Apple can't match HP's scale and distribution network. What's more, IMO, a significant % of people in the PC camp [close and lock the the door] on Apple because they think (right or wrong) 'proprietary' or 'not compatible'. By having HP put its arms around the iPod (and by extension--Apple) that door is instantly unlocked and opens up both a new mindset and new buying opportunities.

For those of you who are (apparently) going to lose sleep over the blue color, get a grip--overtime they'll probably offer additional colors and/or match Apple's colors.

i completely agree this is a brilliant move! look at the vhs/beta battle back in the day. it's not about who's better, but the more you get it out there, the more it becomes the standard.

as far as the blue, i don't like it from the picture. then again i don't really care as i have my ipod anyway ;)

Snowy_River
Jan 9, 2004, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by Sayhey
I hope Carly is not just blowing smoke and it was Apple that brought this to HP. It would mean that Apple is aggressively looking for partners to adopt their technology instead of just hoping the consumers stay with them. The more PC vendors that put iTunes and iTMS on their desktops the better. The more companies that adopt AAC instead of WMA the better still. And the move of companies like HP to market Apple products which will bring more financial resources to Apple's continued R&D is the best hope for the future in all of this.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the actual course of events was something like this:

Apple: Say, HP, can we strike a deal so that you'll pre-install iTunes on all of your computers?

HP: Hmm. That sounds interesting, but let's sweeten the pot a little. We want an HP branded music player, and we know you've got the best one in the business. How about you create an HP version of the iPod, and we'll bundle iTunes on all of our computers?

Apple: Well, that seems like a good deal. Let's do it!

Powerbook G5
Jan 9, 2004, 05:55 PM
Either way, Apple wins if it is in fact Apple who is receiving to profits from these HP branded iPods. Does this mean that HP just gets the mindshare or would they get some of the cash, as well?

sethypoo
Jan 9, 2004, 05:55 PM
To me, it looks like the front was dyed with cheap fabric dye. The HP logo on the back looks like it was either taped on or somehow engraved.

The Grimace
Jan 9, 2004, 05:56 PM
Originally posted by Timothy
Ms. HP stated that they will begin implementing the iTunes technology across their product line; which made me wonder...

do you think they'll build an iTunes-like app for the iPaq? That would be interesting...

One can hope. I need to use PocketPC in the course of my work, and just got my son a PocketPC PDA for christmas. I also got him a gift certificate to the iTMS as well, but since he can't play AAC on his new PDA, I'm left with either
1) Burning and re-ripping (which is lossy) the music he downloads or
2)Downloading what he bought on iTMS from P2P in MP3 format so he can use WMP

Either way, until we get iTunes for PocketPC, or WMP starts supporting DRM AAC, its a hassle.

(tig)

P Rush
Jan 9, 2004, 05:58 PM
This is absolutely amazing. The more people buying from apple's music store, the better. This is a very critical time for online music, and Apple needs to own online purchasing. Right now there isn't a lot of profit in selling online music. In 10 years if EVERYONE is buying from ITMS then That means major profits for apple...MAJOR. Also, the more ipods/hp ipods perople have the more Itunes is used so more ACC. This is great. Consider the alternative -->hp makes a player and it is based on wma and makes another online store them selves...its just another competitor for everyone. Now they are helping apple and their selves. Its smart and Im excited for it.

Powerbook G5
Jan 9, 2004, 05:58 PM
Wouldn't it be easier to just get a CD player or an iPod/digital music player instead of using a PDA as a jukebox?

thatguy_youknow
Jan 9, 2004, 06:01 PM
Originally posted by Bunzi2k4
*gasp* i want one!... too bad I already have an ipod... hmm... spray paint sounds good right now...


They offer it as a service http://www.colorwarepc.com/content.aspx?id=16
They also paint powerbooks (don't know why somebody would want to paint over the Al) and iBooks (maybe if mine wasn't in the pooper with a logic board problem)

latergator116
Jan 9, 2004, 06:02 PM
dang. can't see the videos. why don't they have a quicktime option?

jettredmont
Jan 9, 2004, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by edesignuk
So I take it the Apple iPod looks like ***** as well? :rolleyes: It's the same damn thing in a different colour!!!

So you don't think color has anything to do with how good or cheap something looks?

Would you rather carry around a hot pink/fucia iPod, or a 1983-Beige? How about 24k gold (plated)?

Color is a major component of how something looks.

OTOH, I don't find gray with a blue-ish tinge to be a ghastly color for the iPod. Makes it much less noticeable, and much less classy, but it's not too altogether bad. At least it's not silvery-plastic-on-black-plastic as was the rage for PC makers last year (Dell and Gateway primarily).

MattG
Jan 9, 2004, 06:20 PM
I don't know...something about this...I just don't like it. It's like Apple is in cahoots with the enemy or something.

iChan
Jan 9, 2004, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by Bob Knob
The video is one of the funniest things I've ever seen...

"Why did Apple come to HP... HP's skill/technology/engineering..."

Hmm, HP is the innovator? That's like saying the guy who put the first whitewalls on tires invented the wheel. I think she has been drinking the same water that Gates does.


i'd say, wih HP and Compaq as a single entity, they have probably innovated in more areas in the past year than Apple has innovated in it's entire history...

however, Apple innovate in more visble areas and are much more media savvy thn any tech company in the world... however, that is not innovation.

diniscorreia
Jan 9, 2004, 06:21 PM
The "HP branded" thing just give the creeps...

There should be an Apple logo in it!!
(I know there's one on the startup screen...)

jettredmont
Jan 9, 2004, 06:21 PM
Originally posted by slowtreme
How is having Apple in control on my music rights any better or worse.

Ummm, because Apple has a much better record with regards to fair use and general consumer rights than Microsoft? Because Apple is actually culpable for bad decisions, whereas Microsoft's monopoly-driven revenues wouldn't budge an inch if they screwed you over for an RIAA payoff?

Did you really need to ask?

iChan
Jan 9, 2004, 06:22 PM
Originally posted by D0ct0rteeth
Yep. identical.. except that it is grey.

If it was deep polished black with a brushed aluminum back and brushed aluminum scroll wheel... blue backlighting..

That would be a sexy alternative, but its just a different color plastic..

Nothing special or artistic.

- Doc

I secdon that... even better would be for the logo at the back to not have that hideous surround on the letters 'hp'... it looks terrible jut floting there like that...

just the letters would be so much more attractive.

hey, it's the little details that count! :)

Mord
Jan 9, 2004, 06:22 PM
Originally posted by Bob Knob
I also like HP stuff and have been using various HP printers and scanners for years.
However, her statements in the video clip clearly contradict themselves. In the opening she says how HP looked at Apple's system and found it superior, then she goes on about how Apple "came" to HP because of HP's engineering and integration skills. As is the iPod and iTunes runs on Macs and Windows, HP is doing nothing but repackaging it.

BTW, none of your stats you posted have anything to do with innovation... and no, I am not saying Apple invented the player market either, they just made a very successful one.

dident apple sell all it's stylewriter and laserwriter stuff to HP so the innovation get's tracked back to apple again

(can anyone back up my claim? Im 80% but still)

Snowy_River
Jan 9, 2004, 06:22 PM
Originally posted by thatguy_youknow
They offer it as a service http://www.colorwarepc.com/content.aspx?id=16
They also paint powerbooks (don't know why somebody would want to paint over the Al) and iBooks (maybe if mine wasn't in the pooper with a logic board problem)

Very interesting. However, I must point out that their accounting department needs to look at their web site. If I buy a 40GB iPod for $499, then pay them to apply a color coating to it, say 'Carbon', for $49, I'll spend a total of $548. Now, if I buy a Carbon iPod from them, I now have to pay $565. Where does that extra $17 come from?

jettredmont
Jan 9, 2004, 06:28 PM
Originally posted by PDubNYC
regardless of your opinion of Thurrott or whether WMA is a superior format, I think that it would be nothing but a good thing to support multiple formats. I have friends that have their music in WMA format (keep your knee-jerk reactions to yourselves) and that is the only thing holding them back from buying an iPod.

Bottom line, more formats=more customers for Apple.

No. Bottom line: supporting WMA on iPod is aiding Microsoft continued dominance in the encoding format arena.

Your friends have their music in WMA? Pity. They can either re-encode from their original CDs or use a cross-coding applet to convert their WMA to AAC. If they've been foolish enough to be buying from Napster, MusicMatch, et al ... well, there's just not much to do for them!

I can see Apple possibly supporting RealAudio's Helix/AAC DRM, but not WMA. You don't feed the enemy when you have no reason. The iPod is the dominant player. FairPlay/AAC is the dominant DRM and format.

greenstork
Jan 9, 2004, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by PDubNYC
regardless of your opinion of Thurrott or whether WMA is a superior format, I think that it would be nothing but a good thing to support multiple formats. I have friends that have their music in WMA format (keep your knee-jerk reactions to yourselves) and that is the only thing holding them back from buying an iPod.

Bottom line, more formats=more customers for Apple.

I will withhold my kneejerk reaction but say this instead. If one format takes over, be it AAC or WMA, you can be sure that DRM rules will become stricter. That said, I think that an alternative to WMA has to be not only promoted but protected as well.

It's not so much that the DRM for Windows based systems is bad now, but more that if WMA becomes the norm then whatever Microsoft decides to do with its monopoly codec will affect everyone. If they decide to clamp down on the DRM associated with WMA and their codec is the most widely used then we can all eat a ***** sandwich.

Therefore, it is critically important to support multiple codecs and choices so that there will always be a competitive alternative offering a different DRM.

iChan
Jan 9, 2004, 06:31 PM
does apple really NEED HP to help them to develop WMA on an iPod??? I think Apple would be able to do it themselves...

but i doubt it will happen anyway.


but if it did, wouldn't it make more sense for Apple to go to MS?

fatfish
Jan 9, 2004, 06:31 PM
I really would like to see Apple be the only vendor for ipods, but business is business and this really looks like a smart move.

Gee, M$ and Dell seem genuinly worried, have you seen their childish reactions to the news.

Anyhows my reason for posting is surely this will mean a worldwide itunes, I can't see HP settling for a US market only for very long.

jettredmont
Jan 9, 2004, 06:37 PM
Originally posted by niter
Black would have been a nicer color, but really, I am not too worked up about the color as I like the white iPod the best.

I think this deal is great, but I am left questioning one thing, as many have. Why is there going to be an HP iPod when the current iPod is already Windows compatable.


Quite simple. This is an HP "vanity project". This is not about offering something "new" to the consumer; it is about offering the same thing in a package marked "New and Improved!" with another company's logo on the side.

Look at Dell's printers page. See all those Lexmark printers that say they're Dells? Compaq did the same thing. HP does essentially the same thing with monitors (I don't believe they have any of their own monitor production facilities, although I may be wrong there).

HP likes to ship a box to your doorstep that says nothing but "HP" on it.

IMHO, I always shook my head in wonder at the people who bought rebranded printers (often at prices higher than they could have gotten from the original manufacturer), especially when they kept going back to Dell or Compaq for supplies at twice the going rate ("because that refill doesn't say it goes with the Dell EP57; it only goes with the Lexmark EP57!")

Computer manufacturers use rebranded components like department stores use mattresses: you can never find the identical item in a different store, so you don't know (unless you're relatively savvy) that you're being ripped off, or that the "FREE PRINTER!" is only worth $49 and you had to overpay $99 on memory to get it ...

ccuilla
Jan 9, 2004, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by iChan
does apple really NEED HP to help them to develop WMA on an iPod??? I think Apple would be able to do it themselves...

but i doubt it will happen anyway.


but if it did, wouldn't it make more sense for Apple to go to MS?

I'm certain Apple already HAS done it. It's just that they WON'T put it onto the iPod/iTunes right now. Maybe ever.

rdowns
Jan 9, 2004, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by Maclarny
Hmmm...now that I tihnk about this new HP iPod I have some concerns. Doesn't this seem a lot like when apple started liscensing it's own OS to ther companies. Could Apple be pitching off a really good product only to have their own profits get sucked away?

I don't see much of a parallel. Not much HP can do to the iPod, as I understand it, they will be buying them from Apple, not manufacturing their own.

The reason clone makers sucked away Apple market share and profits were because they were pretty free to build what they wanted to. They hit price points and configurations Apple never did. They only paid Apple for the OS license and kept all the hardware profits.

jettredmont
Jan 9, 2004, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by Powerbook G5
It has been my experience that HP printers don't play well with Mac OS X, though. My family's all in one doesn't work with Panther, only Jaguar, and my girlfriend has tried two different kinds of HP printers, one of which came with her iMac when she bought it at CompUSA as a package deal. I always assumed that HP just didn't play well with Apple, so this is a bit of a surprise.

Hmm. Odd. My DeskJet 952C was plug-and-play with Panther. My Windows box needed to find and install drivers, but the Mac knew it from birth and prints beautifully to it.

dho
Jan 9, 2004, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by Maclarny
Hmmm...now that I tihnk about this new HP iPod I have some concerns. Doesn't this seem a lot like when apple started liscensing it's own OS to ther companies. Could Apple be pitching off a really good product only to have their own profits get sucked away?

Although the iPods are what make the money, this seems to be more of a pitch for itms. If they lock people into aac now, regardless if its with a apple/hp player, they will get more business down the line. A few million hp apple players with lower margincs is much better then a few million hp napster players. Also, if apple locks in a large user base, they can pull the plug on hp and force people to buy the iPod directly(Unles the contract says thats a nono)

I will stick to buying mine direct, but this cant hurt. I wonder if the hp players are only compatible with the windows version of itms. sure hope not.

sparks9
Jan 9, 2004, 06:51 PM
I hope Apple wont loose the iPod in this. Maybe people will think, wow HP sure is a great company making such a cool music player next time I'll buy a HP computer.
That would be sad.

hokka
Jan 9, 2004, 06:53 PM
Apart from the body of HP DMP being blue/grey, did anyone notice the screen seems to having a blue hue to it as well? wonder when lit-up if it's going to be blue as well (as oppose to white-sh blue found on 3G iPods)?

I think that makes a bit of difference as bright blue is not as legible as white in the dark.

And what colour would the buttons be when lit-up?

greenstork
Jan 9, 2004, 06:55 PM
Originally posted by sparks9
I hope Apple wont loose the iPod in this. Maybe people will think, wow HP sure is a great company making such a cool music player next time I'll buy a HP computer.
That would be sad.

Given that your signature says you own a Windows iPod, I find your post very ironic.

rdowns
Jan 9, 2004, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by the_dalex
From a marketing perspective, there are good reasons to play WMA, because that would pull Microsoft's last rug out from under them. If I were SJ, and if I wanted to stick it to Microsoft in the music world I would...

1) Build up the iPod into the most popular music player (done)

2) Build up the ITMS into the most popular online music store (done)

3) Let them criticize the only "flaw" being that it doesn't play Microsoft's proprietary format (done)

4) Suddenly allow the iPod to play WMA via a firmware update, in a final death blow (pending?)

When I look at the business model Apple has chosen, I don't see why this wouldn't work. We all are aware that the ITMS breaks even or at best makes a small profit, and the money is in the iPods. You don't want to sell music in WMA format, because you want the iPods to sell... but why not let the iPod play WMA? The only thing I can think of is that Microsoft would want a royalty or licensing fee, but if Apple came to them now, Microsoft can't deny them or gouge them without being dragged into court after their statements about "choice" being so important. Plus, I imagine if you just want a license to decode instead of encode, it wouldn't cost much.

I personally believe that the ITMS is the best music store out there, and I know SJ agrees. Let customers try them all with their iPod, and they will use the best service (or a combination of them all), but the important thing is...they have an iPod.

Now is the perfect time for the death blow, with the upcoming Pepsi promotion and the new HP crossover. Apple can completely take over the market by opening the iPod to WMA, and Microsoft has basically challenged them to so they can't get in the way. Microsoft's predictable behavior has them in a real pickle, but they've walked themselves into a trap.

Seems logical to me.

How about we each kick in a few bucks and buy Mr. Gates an iPod. We can engrave it with "***** Happens" and throw in an iTMS gift certificate.

Photorun
Jan 9, 2004, 06:57 PM
Man, it's like Zippy the Clown is going to walk out on stage.

Isn't that a bit odd, it boots with an Apple logo but has an HP logo? Won't people go "huh?" I'm thinking anyone that's not been hiding under a rock is going to just call it the HP iPod, right? And they know Apple makes them.

It'd probably work out that HP will sell them at exactly Apple price point, call it a hunch.

rdowns
Jan 9, 2004, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by the_dalex
Hmmm, I suppose Microsoft would want the iPod to play WMA, because their control of the format means they will be collecting royalties from every non-Apple online store for each song sold... and one royalty per iPod. They just wouldn't be the market leader, and I know ultra-competitive Bill's ears are steaming at that very thought. They will make bad business decisions just so they can "win" something.

Wow, a win/win situation in my book... anyone else know why Apple would not want to support WMA at this point in the game? One or two years earlier and I would understand, but the time is ripe.

Almost ripe. Wait until one of the WMA stores fail and then welcome the users with open arms. (Yes, I know their purchased music will probably not transfer over but their WMA libraries could)

fatfish
Jan 9, 2004, 07:03 PM
From a marketing perspective, there are good reasons to play WMA, because that would pull Microsoft's last rug out from under them. If I were SJ, and if I wanted to stick it to Microsoft in the music world I would...



Good job your not SJ then, he obviosly believes as I do that M$ should not have another monopoly, this time they don't and won't if things stay as they are.

splashman
Jan 9, 2004, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by Plissken
the HP "iPod" is not coming until june and it will be the same as the current 3G iPods which makes it seem to me that by June Apple will have a new revision out for sure leaving HP to sell the older tech for a little bit less. make sense to everybody else?

I highly doubt HP will accept "older tech", and I don't think Apple will offer it.

Given that HP won't be releasing their player until June, I think it's a safe assumption that Carly was holding a mockup, not a production model. In June, HP will be selling the latest -- the 4G, we'll call it. If Apple sold 3Gs to HP, they'd have to be cheaper than the 4Gs, and Apple would never do that -- it would completely ******* up their already-tricky marketing strategy.

That's my opinion, anyway.

rdowns
Jan 9, 2004, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by Snowy_River
Very interesting. However, I must point out that their accounting department needs to look at their web site. If I buy a 40GB iPod for $499, then pay them to apply a color coating to it, say 'Carbon', for $49, I'll spend a total of $548. Now, if I buy a Carbon iPod from them, I now have to pay $565. Where does that extra $17 come from?

Convenience of not having to send your new iPod to them and wait for it to be painted and returned?

Rocketman
Jan 9, 2004, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by Maclarny
Hmmm...now that I tihnk about this new HP iPod I have some concerns. Doesn't this seem a lot like when apple started liscensing it's own OS to ther companies. Could Apple be pitching off a really good product only to have their own profits get sucked away?

Apple obviously feels the channels are distinct. I tend to agree.

But wouldn't it be funny if the HPpod and the APpod were sold side by side in Wal-Mart and best Buyand Apple sold more?

Rocketman

balconycollapse
Jan 9, 2004, 07:12 PM
I think this is a smart move! One thing i notice is almost all the wintel makers have all over their site suggestions to include a DJ or Gateway music player with your next order and if you go to the customize computer portion when ordering from Apple the iPod is there as a companion upgrade. I think ideally what HP would like to do is sell nearly everyone of their computers with an H Pod included. Maybe take a loss even, or find someway to make it affordable. People would choose HP everytime thinking they get a "free iPod" over Dell. I've seen Gateway start doing this with out of date cameras. Personal electronics shipping together with a computer is going to become more and more commonplace. Its come to the point where the machine is good enough but its lacking if you don't have the right peripherals like a camera, iPod, DV cam right away. I'd even go so far in expecting to see Apple create some sort of new iMac that ships with an iPod and the dock is built into the computer making it seem more like a portable harddrive as well. The fact that people will start carrying personal data storage around or be able to take their iPod to and from work with the at home on ipod feature.

J-Squire
Jan 9, 2004, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by fatfish


Gee, M$ and Dell seem genuinly worried, have you seen their childish reactions to the news.

No....can you give some links to this information....?

beg_ne
Jan 9, 2004, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by rdowns
Almost ripe. Wait until one of the WMA stores fail and then welcome the users with open arms. (Yes, I know their purchased music will probably not transfer over but their WMA libraries could)

Supporting WM is a bad idea period, why should apple reward people trying to use such a pathetic pseudo-standard as WMA?

iTunes is the #1 music store and iPod the #1 player why bend to the will of MS and hurt the AAC standard?

Fact is MS at any time could make their next codec incompatible with anything but Longhorn, drop all support for WMP on Mac(like they did with IE) and leverage more users to their platforms and formats. Their goal is to do with WM and audio/video codecs what they did with IE and the web.

If everyone providing content is using WM then we as users will be under MS's thumb for everything we will see and hear(this just won't apply to computers either with MS trying to worm their way into the living room).

whyrichard
Jan 9, 2004, 07:18 PM
i think the hp ipod looks to be just a little bit under the weather.

it looks kinda... sad. like depressed. it makes me a little down seeing an ipod like that.


r.

pyro
Jan 9, 2004, 07:19 PM
Instead of making support for ****ty little wma files how about flac, shn, or ape?

If they made the iPod and iTunes compatable with some of those files (preferably flac and/or shn) then they'd have nearly the entire bootleger community on their side.

fatfish
Jan 9, 2004, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by J-Squire
No....can you give some links to this information....?

Gee, you ask some questionsd at 1.30 in the morning.

I saw the article about 5 hours ago, so I'm not sure where it came from, but I will have a look.

But basically they seemed suprised by the news and said it was a bad move because it denied the people a choice. Sounded to me as though they were conceding market position on this one.

tazznb
Jan 9, 2004, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by Maclarny
Hmmm...now that I tihnk about this new HP iPod I have some concerns. Doesn't this seem a lot like when apple started liscensing it's own OS to ther companies. Could Apple be pitching off a really good product only to have their own profits get sucked away?


This may be the only way to take on the juggernaut formerly known as Microsoft.

diniscorreia
Jan 9, 2004, 07:31 PM
Originally posted by splashman
I highly doubt HP will accept "older tech", and I don't think Apple will offer it.

Given that HP won't be releasing their player until June, I think it's a safe assumption that Carly was holding a mockup, not a production model. In June, HP will be selling the latest -- the 4G, we'll call it. If Apple sold 3Gs to HP, they'd have to be cheaper than the 4Gs, and Apple would never do that -- it would completely ******* up their already-tricky marketing strategy..

I don't think so: Apple needs to "stay ahead".

Besides, Schiller said that it would have the design and features as Apple's third-generation iPod players.

adamfilip
Jan 9, 2004, 07:32 PM
they should have made it in Black!

pkradd
Jan 9, 2004, 07:36 PM
As is usual with web photos, it's difficult to really discern the actual color. You'd think posters here would understand that by now. The color will look nicer in person (just as the iPod looks better in person then in photographs). HP will be selling the "Digital Music Player" in 110,000 stores around the world as well as their website. As far as booting with an Apple logo what's the problem? Computers almost all say "Intel Inside" even though they're HP or Gateway or Dell. Why are people so concerned about trivial things around here. Must be a slow day for some.

Also this is not a licensing deal that killed Apple in the past. When they licensed the operating system and architecture, other computer makers UNDERSOLD Apple compatible products. This won't happen with this deal. Apple is selling finished Digital Music Players to HP and placing the already available iTunes/iTMS for Windows on the HP computers. Sweet deal. Apple has COMPLETE control of quality and distribution of the software and hardware it will be providing HP.

Booga
Jan 9, 2004, 07:46 PM
Windows Media isn't going away. Microsoft is working with DVD manufacturers to get the de-facto "HD-DVD" format to *BE* the Windows Media video format. And they're succeeding. The Terminator 3 DVD, for example, contains the movie in both formats-- DVD for "low" quality 480p and Windows Media for HD quality.

MPEG4 video and audio, despite having a large market share in the legal music downloads market right now, are very much the underdogs. I understand Apple is fighting a good fight, but I hope if it comes down to it they know when to conceed and keep making money this time.

flipperfeet
Jan 9, 2004, 07:46 PM
Originally posted by the_dalex
From a marketing perspective, there are good reasons to play WMA, because that would pull Microsoft's last rug out from under them. If I were SJ, and if I wanted to stick it to Microsoft in the music world I would...

1) Build up the iPod into the most popular music player (done)

2) Build up the ITMS into the most popular online music store (done)

3) Let them criticize the only "flaw" being that it doesn't play Microsoft's proprietary format (done)

4) Suddenly allow the iPod to play WMA via a firmware update, in a final death blow (pending?)

When I look at the business model Apple has chosen, I don't see why this wouldn't work. We all are aware that the ITMS breaks even or at best makes a small profit, and the money is in the iPods. You don't want to sell music in WMA format, because you want the iPods to sell... but why not let the iPod play WMA? The only thing I can think of is that Microsoft would want a royalty or licensing fee, but if Apple came to them now, Microsoft can't deny them or gouge them without being dragged into court after their statements about "choice" being so important. Plus, I imagine if you just want a license to decode instead of encode, it wouldn't cost much.

I personally believe that the ITMS is the best music store out there, and I know SJ agrees. Let customers try them all with their iPod, and they will use the best service (or a combination of them all), but the important thing is...they have an iPod.

Now is the perfect time for the death blow, with the upcoming Pepsi promotion and the new HP crossover. Apple can completely take over the market by opening the iPod to WMA, and Microsoft has basically challenged them to so they can't get in the way. Microsoft's predictable behavior has them in a real pickle, but they've walked themselves into a trap.

Apple has already proven it does not need WMA to reach market dominance, HP appears to agree with Apple. Adding WMA now does not deliver a death blow to M$, it knocks the wind out of iPod and iTunes Store sails (pun intended). HP making iTunes their de facto jukebox/music app. and possibly picking up a commission for each download sends the message to M$, Sony and every other manufacturer that they better reconsider the AAC standard if they want access to 70% of the legal download market.

We must not forget the problem prior to iTunes Store was bringing the content providers together, not a standardization around an encoding format. Apple's success is more attributable to this triumph than seamlessly bringing the Store and iPod together. Adding WMA compatibility opens up huge libraries of illegal content and puts Apple and HP at odds with the content providers. AAC is a walled garden that assures the big six their content is relatively safe.

Rather than looking for Apple to enable WMA on the iPod/hPod and opening themselves up to competition from cheap WMA players, we should be watching for Korean and Japanese manufactures to take a page from HP's playbook and add AAC compatibility to their products. (Given Sony's stubborn love of proprietary formats, I am betting Samsung, Matsu****a or Sharp make the move first.)

Steve & Co. keep mentioning "we are getting closer to that magic number." Its magic not only because it represents market parity with the traditional CDs business, in all likelihood it is magic because it represents substantial profits, rather than just content to drive the sell of hardware.

Once this happens, the dynamics swing dramatically and instead of cheap music driving the sells of hardware, cheap hardware fosters the sells of content.

Sabenth
Jan 9, 2004, 07:56 PM
Well i see this as great news Apple gets cash of hp for the iPod apple then gets cash of us for using iTunes ....

OF COURSE THEY NEED TO BLOODY HAVE THIS WORLD WIDE!!!! Weres the deals and the new world wide iTunes stores .. Australia is awaiting here lol :)

hokka
Jan 9, 2004, 08:04 PM
Originally posted by Sabenth
Well i see this as great news Apple gets cash of hp for the iPod apple then gets cash of us for using iTunes ....

OF COURSE THEY NEED TO BLOODY HAVE THIS WORLD WIDE!!!! Weres the deals and the new world wide iTunes stores .. Australia is awaiting here lol :)

Don't worry champ, SMH stated (do a search on MacRumors) iTMS will be here in the first quarter of 2004 (not too long at all mate! can't wait!)

flipperfeet
Jan 9, 2004, 08:07 PM
Originally posted by Sabenth
Well i see this as great news Apple gets cash of hp for the iPod apple then gets cash of us for using iTunes ....

OF COURSE THEY NEED TO BLOODY HAVE THIS WORLD WIDE!!!! Weres the deals and the new world wide iTunes stores .. Australia is awaiting here lol :)

Word! I have got around this by registering via a family member's address in the US in order to download files here in Japan.

fatfish
Jan 9, 2004, 08:11 PM
Originally posted by Booga
Windows Media isn't going away. Microsoft is working with DVD manufacturers to get the de-facto "HD-DVD" format to *BE* the Windows Media video format. And they're succeeding. The Terminator 3 DVD, for example, contains the movie in both formats-- DVD for "low" quality 480p and Windows Media for HD quality.

MPEG4 video and audio, despite having a large market share in the legal music downloads market right now, are very much the underdogs. I understand Apple is fighting a good fight, but I hope if it comes down to it they know when to conceed and keep making money this time.

Forgive me but one terminator DVD doesn't sound like suceeding to me, I'm not really sure I understand what you're saying. MPEG4 for is not in my understanding a codec to replace MPEG2 on DVD's, it's more for web use and low capacity storage.

Are you trying to say that we are going to see all DVD's be made in WMA and all our DVD players become obsolete. Personally, I believe if there is a move from the current MPEG2 format it will be for less compression not more, especially with the advent of larger storage media and cheaper and faster processors.

billyboy
Jan 9, 2004, 08:13 PM
It is probably stating the obvious, but Apple are pretty good at product differentiation. HP will be bundling last year's news to the masses, and Apple will move the mini and 3G iPods ever upwards, so even if there were iPods and HPods side by side in stores, (which probably wont happen unless HPods are accompanied by an HP computer), there would be no conflict of interest between very different models. Win win.

I was also thinking, its all very well saying AAC needs to be the standard in place of a WMA monopoly, but if Apple keep hold of Fairplay, they will eventually be accused of restrictive practices - even if the iTunes offering is genuinely good for most customers. However, once the iPod has become the de facto MP3 set up and rumblings in Govt take a hold SJ has the option up his sleeve to make Fairplay available for license . Ahead of the game, he suddenly sells cheapo DRM licenses to anyone who fancies their chances against the iPod.

It seems to me that finally, Apple is first in the queue with a product and a strong and aggressive strategy to keep them there. Its not like they give customers what they dont want. and pro Apple alliances with seriously big businesses means Apple's market share in music should be really solid and formidable . SJ has come of age.

Stella
Jan 9, 2004, 08:44 PM
This is nothing more than Excellent.

HP will be selling iPods and the iTMS (rebanded)

What could be better - the more iPods the better.

Given the premise that Apple uses iTMS to sell iPods - what would you prefer - more iTMS sold, which doesn't make a profit or more iPods sold - which does.

Apple obviously see it attraactive to allow rebranded iPods...

avus
Jan 9, 2004, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by flipperfeet
Word! I have got around this by registering via a family member's address in the US in order to download files here in Japan.

You should keep doing that if you like to listen to what is available in iTMS US, because iTMS Japan will feature a completely different set of music and musicians for an obvious reason (catering the Japanese market, that is).

winmacguy
Jan 9, 2004, 09:19 PM
Originally posted by eric_n_dfw
Um - let's not get too high and mighty here. HP's PC's may be a dime-a-dozen, but they have been inovators in a lot of markets since 1939 (and a garage start-up just like Apple)

If you have to choose a Pee-Cee maker as a partner, they're not a bad choice:


As a stock-holder, I say, "Bravo!"

Absolutely, Carly has looked at all her options when it comes to the online music down load market and seen that Apple is HPs best option to partner with since going it alone against Apple would be pointless. This way HP gets revenue from a globaly recognised product supplied by another company who are not necessarily a competitor interms of personal computers. Apple gets its iTunes player installed by default on every PC that HP sells all around the world. Most no tech savy consumers probably dont always care what media player they have on their computer as long as they can play their CDs on it. All of this is going to bring market share/mind share to Apple in a big way for 2004.

winmacguy
Jan 9, 2004, 09:23 PM
Originally posted by elgruga
Yes - why bother with this ugly hPod thing?

Carly Fiorentina has been taking public speaking tips from Steve Jobs, too!

I wonder where this is all going to go?

marketing and branding is all about consistency in design. Apples products are white or aluminum in the case of the G5 and are intenationallly recognised as being Apple products. HP on the other hand are that Bluey colour and are recogised world wide so an HP Pod would there for be the HP colours to keep with the consistent design

MCCFR
Jan 9, 2004, 09:26 PM
You've got to hand it to Carly.

Nearly everything else in this story makes it sound like HP took a look at the last quarter's stats and decided to fold up its tent and get on the iPod/iTMS bandwagon, and then she somehow manages to make it seem like it was Apple that came to them wanting to do the deal.

I concede that HP have done a fair amount of innovation over the decades, but the idea of Apple being impressed with HP's record of innovation in the consumer marketplace seems like a woman desperately trying to make lemonade out of lemons to me.

Still think it's a great deal though, and think the finished units will look a lot better than the spray-painted half-assed unit she holds up in the video.

Now onto the positives:

If HP really have 110,000 outlets to pump this through, it's highly conceivable that HP could move 3 million units annually. Assuming Apple are giving HP some room to make $25 a unit, HP could make $75 million annually as a guarantee.

This compares quite favourably with how much HP would have paid to develop and, more importantly, market its own player and store, both of which could have landed up being loss-leaders.

$75 million income as opposed to $25-$50 million burnt seems like a smart move from HP, and Apple do quite nicely out of it as well.

Like one of those cute Russian dolls, the first thing that looks like a Trojan Horse is the iPod; but then you realise that it might be iTMS; however you dig a little deeper and you begin to think it might be QuickTime and then - ultimately - it might be the fact that - through iTunes - Apple is getting WebCore or whatever its called onto Windows.

That's just the intangible benefit; but at 3 million units a year and 15% gross, Apple may well generate around $900M in revenue for iPod and over $135M in profit. If half of these 3 million units generate 5 iTMS downloads a month, that's 90 million downloads/annum.

Over three years, Apple could download some 540 million tracks to HP's customers, generating a minimum of $27M in profit to go with $405M in profit from iPod sales.

Seems like a deal to me! Sneak your software onto your arch-rival's OS, shift even more of your hot product thus increasing economies of scale and reducing unit costs, earn a shed load of cash. Oh, and stick a knife into the opposing music formats at the same time. It's like the gift that keeps on giving.

As for WMA support - why should Apple legitimise or dignify WMA and its DRM! If WMA music stores go down the tubes, then Apple should let their subscribers swing in the breeze simply to reinforce the message that not everthing MS is or indeed should be successful. Rescuing people who made bad purchasing decisions whilst giving money to your arch-enemy is just misguided. Let Gates, Ballmer and their cheerleaders explain to their customers that WMA is a dead-end format, whilst sane reasonable people use a quality solution.

Ramza
Jan 9, 2004, 09:28 PM
I kinda like it. If it's cheaper than the current apple offerings, then I'm definately going to go for one :)

...but is it mac compatable? :P

winmacguy
Jan 9, 2004, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by Snowy_River
I wouldn't be at all surprised if the actual course of events was something like this:

Apple: Say, HP, can we strike a deal so that you'll pre-install iTunes on all of your computers?

HP: Hmm. That sounds interesting, but let's sweeten the pot a little. We want an HP branded music player, and we know you've got the best one in the business. How about you create an HP version of the iPod, and we'll bundle iTunes on all of our computers?

Apple: Well, that seems like a good deal. Let's do it!

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2004/jan/08hp.html


“HP’s goal is to bring the most compelling entertainment content and experiences to our customers,” said Carly Fiorina, chairman and chief executive officer at HP. “We explored a range of alternatives to deliver a great digital music experience and concluded Apple’s iPod music player and iTunes music service were the best by far. By partnering with Apple, we have the opportunity to add value by integrating the world’s best digital music offering into HP’s larger digital entertainment system strategy.”


That should answer your question.

As I have discovered in the work place never underestimate the business savy of a woman especially when she wants to get something done.

slowtreme
Jan 9, 2004, 09:38 PM
Originally posted by MCCFR
If HP really have 110,000 outlets to pump this through, it's highly conceivable that HP could move 3 million units annually. Assuming Apple are giving HP some room to make $25 a unit, HP could make $75 million annually as a guarantee. Many/some of these already sell iPod. CompUSA, Best Buy, etc.

flipperfeet
Jan 9, 2004, 09:38 PM
Originally posted by avus
You should keep doing that if you like to listen to what is available in iTMS US, because iTMS Japan will feature a completely different set of music and musicians for an obvious reason (catering the Japanese market, that is).

Two members in the family makes both possible. However, if I were to make a gross generality, the Japanese market has a better appreciation for Jazz of all types, classical, and perhaps reggae, so I would expect these genre to be covered equally as well.

In addition, Tower and Virgin, still carry reasonably broad selections of non-Japanese artist here in Tokyo, so I would expect the iTMS in Japan to take a similar approach.

uberman42
Jan 9, 2004, 09:48 PM
Will this mean Apple will license HP printers and Apple brings back the Laserwriter? Gawd, sometimes I miss my Laserwriter.:)

flipperfeet
Jan 9, 2004, 09:49 PM
Originally posted by winmacguy
marketing and branding is all about consistency in design. Apples products are white or aluminum in the case of the G5 and are intenationallly recognised as being Apple products. HP on the other hand are that Bluey colour and are recogised world wide so an HP Pod would there for be the HP colours to keep with the consistent design

Respectfully, while consistency is part of the science/art, marketing and branding are a little more complicated than this.

MCCFR
Jan 9, 2004, 09:51 PM
Originally posted by slowtreme
Many/some of these already sell iPod. CompUSA, Best Buy, etc.

And I account for that by the 0.5 units a week which is absurdly low!

I don't mean this as a slight, but you can identify an American response on this topic: CompUSA, BestBuy etc. are great in the USA, but meaningless in the UK or India. This deal is designed to give the iPod a global reach - not just to replicate the distribution network in Wichita, KS.

Here in the UK, if HP can get iPod available consistently in PC World - think CompUSA without the intelligence - Apple will see a tangible benefit.

Now think about all those countries where Apple actually deals through a distributor and HP has a real presence: the distributor doesn't have the marketing muscle to compete against Japanese CE companies, but HP does. Case closed, good night.

uberman42
Jan 9, 2004, 09:53 PM
Oh- this is a great win. When someone is buying a new PC, looks over and sees the HP Digital Music Player connected and working together with the PC, they might just add it to their shopping cart. Steve must of smiled and chuckled when he watched Carly's keynote.

uberman42
Jan 9, 2004, 10:01 PM
Originally posted by MCCFR
And I account for that by the 0.5 units a week which is absurdly low!

I don't mean this as a slight, but you can identify an American response on this topic: CompUSA, BestBuy etc. are great in the USA, but meaningless in the UK or India. This deal is designed to give the iPod a global reach - not just to replicate the distribution network in Wichita, KS.

Here in the UK, if HP can get iPod available consistently in PC World - think CompUSA without the intelligence - Apple will see a tangible benefit.

Now think about all those countries where Apple actually deals through a distributor and HP has a real presence: the distributor doesn't have the marketing muscle to compete against Japanese CE companies, but HP does. Case closed, good night.

You are so correct. We always forget the global reach. And this is good for Apple to secure production capacity to build more iPods. They need to lock up allocation for hard drives (the mini HD market is growing exponentially). Apple is savvy in that they know that the iPod as it is will soon reach a plateau in the US and they need to grow the market. Why not utilize a company with vast distribution like HP to continue expanding the global market which is still open territory for the likes of Dell, Sony, et al.?

Steven1621
Jan 9, 2004, 10:33 PM
why apple why? why are they doing this? you can get the ipod for windows. why make an hp version??????? it is so damn ugly, just like hp's. ahhhh!

sushi
Jan 9, 2004, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by szark
Then maybe you should buy a Carbon iPod (http://www.colorwarepc.com/products/accessoryDetails.aspx?categoryId=170&optId=1695) from ColorWare. :)
Wow, neat site!

Sushi

agesaun
Jan 9, 2004, 10:40 PM
Personally I can't get myself to like the color of HP's iPod. I like the color blue, but this just looks bad. They should have at least left the touch-buttons white. I know it works the same, but I rather the pure simplicity that the white iPods have. And about WMA's being superior... I trust the known and trusted sound geniuses, who have excited me in theaters for years, at Dolby more than I trust Microsoft. Peace! :)

jwhitnah
Jan 9, 2004, 10:42 PM
PC users seem to like ugly stuff so I think this will appeal to them. I on the other hand, am going to go throw up!

Glial
Jan 9, 2004, 10:44 PM
Originally posted by eric_n_dfw
Um - let's not get too high and mighty here. HP's PC's may be a dime-a-dozen, but they have been inovators in a lot of markets since 1939 (and a garage start-up just like Apple)

If you have to choose a Pee-Cee maker as a partner, they're not a bad choice:


As a stock-holder, I say, "Bravo!"

Exactly what I was thinking.

HP is no slouch.

winmacguy
Jan 9, 2004, 11:39 PM
Originally posted by flipperfeet
Respectfully, while consistency is part of the science/art, marketing and branding are a little more complicated than this.

Your respect has been noted and appriciated :), my point was to all the comments regarding the colour of the new H Pod. To your average Mac owner it doesnt look that flash and doesnt look like a mac product, because it is not supposed to. It is coloured to look like a re badged HP product hence following the consistency of appearance

jrv3034
Jan 9, 2004, 11:47 PM
Originally posted by MCCFR
Here in the UK, if HP can get iPod available consistently in PC World - think CompUSA without the intelligence - Apple will see a tangible benefit.

CompUSA without what intelligence?;)

winmacguy
Jan 9, 2004, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by Steven1621
why apple why? why are they doing this? you can get the ipod for windows. why make an hp version??????? it is so damn ugly, just like hp's. ahhhh!

Yes you can get iPod for windows but only if you choose to download it from Apples website which means that
a you know about it
b you want to down load it onto your PC
That group of people would be fairly small.

By making an HP version which is loaded at the time of production by the manufacturer the customer has the decision made for them as to which media player they use. this also means that they then have to get an H Pod when they want to take their music with them. It Also means that the 110,000 distribution channels world wide that HP has will be selling HP PCs with iTunes installed .

With regards to the colourof the H Pod, it look s great next to a beige PC

That is how Bill Gates got Windows into every PC on the Planet. he did a deal with IBM to put Windows on every IBM PC so when the customer bought a PC the choice of operating system was made for them and IBM with their huge distribution channels made sure the world got its PCs.

tjwett
Jan 10, 2004, 12:02 AM
Originally posted by D0ct0rteeth
...Much better public speaker than that damn Microsoft girl at MACworld SF who "attemted" to demo Microsoft Office 2004 :)...

OMG, that was AWFUL!!! i was actually getting embarassed for her. it was like watching a comedian bomb on stage. you could hear crickets in that audience. she looked as though she'd never talked in front of a crowd in her life. that lame ass memorized speech, ugh, she was fighting to get through it. and i didn't care much for that guy demoing Word either. he was a little too "chipper sales guy" for me. why did the Microsoft people come off like used car salesman and all the Apple guys were mellow, well dressed, casual and cool?

hokka
Jan 10, 2004, 12:25 AM
The perfect nickname for this hPod would be:

SmurfPod

:D

chewbaccapits
Jan 10, 2004, 12:46 AM
Originally posted by D0ct0rteeth
...Much better public speaker than that damn Microsoft girl at MACworld SF who "attemted" to demo Microsoft Office 2004 :)

- Doc

Damn..too funny...I hated HO...

Fukui
Jan 10, 2004, 12:46 AM
Originally posted by tjwett
OMG, that was AWFUL!!! i was actually getting embarassed for her. it was like watching a comedian bomb on stage. ....why did the Microsoft people come off like used car salesman and all the Apple guys were mellow, well dressed, casual and cool?
Thats easy. One group comes from Kalifornia (J/K), the other comes from...somewhere else. :D

maxterpiece
Jan 10, 2004, 12:52 AM
Originally posted by yoman
maybe the color Carly showed was just the prototype color. :) Better Color in real model. (Hopefully)

the blue is the same blue that the hewlett packard lettering is in there trademark. they also use that blue on some of their computers (although looking at the HP store, none seem to have it now.). I think the color is okay. It is more low key. For some, low key is boring, for others it makes the ipod feel more like a tool and less like an icon. I think the white ipod seems a little too showy for a lot of people, particularly the type of person who would buy an HP computer.

maxterpiece
Jan 10, 2004, 12:56 AM
Originally posted by sushi
Wow, neat site!

Sushi
they charge $65 more just to make it black?

Omad0n
Jan 10, 2004, 02:17 AM
I think it's awsome that this deal is happening, though I'd never get an HP iPod. I'm quite happy with my new 20giger which I got today :-D

Scottgfx
Jan 10, 2004, 02:33 AM
Perhaps it's going to be called a HiPod. Pease note the capitalization.

Back in 2002 many of us were questioning Ms. Fiorina's judgment in the acquisition of Comapq. In my eyes, this redeams her. Right now, this will bring the Apple experience to a much larger audience. In the future, this will be more than just iPods. Once the shareholders wrap their minds around this, they will be very excited. With the proper license, I think an HP branded Mac system would be killer! Remember, The Woz worked at HP before starting Apple with the other Steve. The genealogy is closer than you think.

Edit: 1992-2002? I'm always in the wrong decade. :)

reyesmac
Jan 10, 2004, 02:33 AM
Who cares about the color, its not like any of you Mac people (myself included) has to buy one. I think the fact that a major PC company is supporting Apple Computer on anything is a breakthrough. I am willing to bet that any new idea Apple has to make money like the iTMS that they will make it so both windows and mac users have access to it. I never thought they would make so many inroads into the PC market as they have in the past few years. I don't buy HP products and I don't like the color, but I love where Apple is going with this. Consumers are smart enough to know who makes the iPod and if they love the thing then next time they will get an Apple one because they want a prettier color.

hulugu
Jan 10, 2004, 02:43 AM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
Exactly.

Supporting WMA on the iPod would undermine Apple's stake in AAC+Fairplay. iTunes for Windows opens the AAC door to Windows users, so there's no excuse that WMA is holding people back from using a superior codec.

Exactly, Apple has a real stake in AAC and everyone else, has thus far—with the wierd exception of Real—hooked their stars to WMA. If Apple can retain the market with AAC this not only breaks WMA's hold on music, it may also break its hold on burgeoning media and bring Quicktime to the forefront. If this happens it looks a lot less important to use Windows Media Player at all, which means sites like C|Net and NPR may revert to Quicktime. If this trend can continue, then the Mac is suddenly in a much better position.

reyesmac
Jan 10, 2004, 02:48 AM
Originally posted by Scottgfx
With the proper license, I think an HP branded Mac system would be killer!

This is one of the things that came to mind when I heard this iPod deal.

Ironically, with Microsoft's help optimizing Virtual PC to work with some special video chip in the HPiMac or just a really fast iMac, they can sell OS X systems that come with VPC and sort of be like those dual boot systems from long ago. The PC side would only be marketed as a compatibility layer and not a true PC, they would sell you on the idea of using all the iApps plus you can keep using all that crappy software you had on your PC too. (except games)

initiald
Jan 10, 2004, 03:56 AM
We all know M$ will open its Online Music Store, so if iPod has WMA capabilities it might kill Apples Music store. Apple should start making its own digital music format and start selling it in itunes music store

Scottgfx
Jan 10, 2004, 04:38 AM
Originally posted by initiald
We all know M$ will open its Online Music Store, so if iPod has WMA capabilities it might kill Apples Music store. Apple should start making its own digital music format and start selling it in itunes music store

Yeah, that would be so cool. They should call it AAC! (for no particular reason)

MCCFR
Jan 10, 2004, 04:47 AM
Originally posted by jrv3034
CompUSA without what intelligence?;)

I know it sounds unfeasible, but it's true.

Stepping into PC World - or the vast majority of specialised retailers in the UK - exposes the customer to a variety of stereotypes.

Firstly, there is a layer of people who are vaguely knowledgable (i.e. they know where the power switch is, or what an angle grinder is supposed to do).

Secondly, there is a layer of bluffers whose incompetence can be uncovered in a few choice questions by the cognoscenti, but who are totally capable of sucking your average customer into a world of FUD and upselling.

Thirdly, there is the "High Fidelity" group: Anyone who's seen the film will understand the reference; there's a couple of sneering smartass types, a socially deficient nerd and a manager totally incapable of controlling the whole sorry mess.

When I'm Prime Minister, practically every single last one of them will go up against a wall:mad:

killmoms
Jan 10, 2004, 09:25 AM
Eight pages and no one has (visibly) linked this? You guys are falling down on the job.

As the Apple Turns had two excellent scenes on this whole HP iPod thing:

http://www.appleturns.com/

They're currently on the front page, not sure how to get a "date-independent" link.

--Cless

shen
Jan 10, 2004, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by tjwett
why did the Microsoft people come off like used car salesman and all the Apple guys were mellow, well dressed, casual and cool?

because casual, cool people choose apple, or at least a linux or BSD. but the bad news, just think, the Mac BU of MS must attract the most casual, most cool, of the windows world.

to any windows users, she was cool smooth and hip, and he was exited to be there..... :rolleyes:

odedh
Jan 10, 2004, 09:59 AM
Fairplay isn't Apple's DRM, they are liscensing it from a company named Veridisc, and it's not an exclusive deal, anyone can use it

Veridisc's website http://64.244.235.240/

iMeowbot
Jan 10, 2004, 11:00 AM
In a poll conducted right here (http://www.macpolls.com/?poll_id=346), a solid 43% picked blue as their most wanted iPod color! Nothing else came close.

If the Cylon Red control button lights are replaced with either white or blue, I'm buying like three dozen of 'em (or at least one anyway).

simply258
Jan 10, 2004, 11:20 AM
That's really funny. She's contradicting herself. In the begining she says "we were looking for a digital music player and found apple to be the best" and then she says "apple came to us" .. :rolleyes:

simply258
Jan 10, 2004, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by Scottgfx
Yeah, that would be so cool. They should call it AAC! (for no particular reason)
lol :D

Fukui
Jan 10, 2004, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by MCCFR
I know it sounds unfeasible, but it's true.

Secondly, there is a layer of bluffers whose incompetence can be uncovered in a few choice questions by the cognoscenti, but who are totally capable of sucking your average customer into a world of FUD and upselling.

You mean the ones that try to sell you those 40 Gigahertz hard drives?

savar
Jan 10, 2004, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by Maclarny
Hmmm...now that I tihnk about this new HP iPod I have some concerns. Doesn't this seem a lot like when apple started liscensing it's own OS to ther companies. Could Apple be pitching off a really good product only to have their own profits get sucked away?

This is hardly like the whole "clones" situation. I imagine Apple's margins will be slightly smaller, but keep in mind this is no different from the original iPod except a different color and a different logo stamped on the back. The hardware, software, even button layout is all exactly the same.

I think its kind of a weird partnership, since HP (like most other PC companies) is striving towards the same "digital hub" that Apple is. It's good for Apple, though, to establish market share--hook first time users. The very worst thing that could happen now is to have Apple's store get excluded because its not WMA. Then all the other stores would crowd out Apple's business since users would start having WMA libraries and would be loathe to switch over.

So in the short term its great, but only for a couple years at most. Apple will be competing with HP in many other arenas, and Apple's ultimate goal is to sell Macs. I'm curious to see where this ends up.

edgar_is_good
Jan 10, 2004, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by hokka
The perfect nickname for this hPod would be:

SmurfPod

:D


Yes! Yes! Yes! ROFL

edgar_is_good
Jan 10, 2004, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by Fukui
You mean the ones that try to sell you those 40 Gigahertz hard drives?

AHEM!

I think you mean MEGAhertz hard drives.

This an apple forums after all, and most of us are still on g3/g4's.

;)

Rower_CPU
Jan 10, 2004, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by Cless
Eight pages and no one has (visibly) linked this? You guys are falling down on the job.

As the Apple Turns had two excellent scenes on this whole HP iPod thing:

http://www.appleturns.com/

They're currently on the front page, not sure how to get a "date-independent" link.

--Cless

Nice find. I haven't been visiting AtAT enough lately.

Here are links to both stories:

Who? When? Whuzza? (1/09/04) (http://appleturns.com/episode/?id=4433)
Skip Copying, Go For Cloning (1/08/04) (http://appleturns.com/scene/?id=4430)

Mord
Jan 10, 2004, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by savar
This is hardly like the whole "clones" situation. I imagine Apple's margins will be slightly smaller, but keep in mind this is no different from the original iPod except a different color and a different logo stamped on the back. The hardware, software, even button layout is all exactly the same.

I think its kind of a weird partnership, since HP (like most other PC companies) is striving towards the same "digital hub" that Apple is. It's good for Apple, though, to establish market share--hook first time users. The very worst thing that could happen now is to have Apple's store get excluded because its not WMA. Then all the other stores would crowd out Apple's business since users would start having WMA libraries and would be loathe to switch over.

So in the short term its great, but only for a couple years at most. Apple will be competing with HP in many other arenas, and Apple's ultimate goal is to sell Macs. I'm curious to see where this ends up.

can we stop with the quoteing of maclarny It's been done like ten times read the entire thread before you post

(did apple sell all it's style/laserwriter tech to HP?)

krassy
Jan 10, 2004, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by Le Big Mac Apple is simply making a customized iPod for HP, and selling them to them at wholesale. They probably have an agreement on the markup, or at least some mechanism that will prevent HP from undercutting sales. They're not giving away anything; they're just improving distribution channels.
that is excactly how i think it is :-) as an additional term i could think of HP paying apple a fixed price for each one of these HPods and even if they sell it for less that wouldn't hurt apple because they'll get their money directly from HP ;-) in my opinion this is a very smart move...

pcharles
Jan 10, 2004, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by Maclarny
Hmmm...now that I tihnk about this new HP iPod I have some concerns. Doesn't this seem a lot like when apple started liscensing it's own OS to ther companies. Could Apple be pitching off a really good product only to have their own profits get sucked away?

No, I think Apple is just selling the iPod through different channels and under a different name. This is very different to selling the iPod OS and then letting HP make the hardware. Apple is making the hardware and must obviously be making a required profit margin. It is probably not as high as selling the iPod via the online store, but it is probably closer to the margins from selling at Target or similar places.

pcharles
Jan 10, 2004, 01:20 PM
Although there are concerns about the iPod itself, it probably tells us a couple of things.

1. Apple has a 4th generation iPod in the works. Hopefully, with the iPod Mini's scroll wheel.

2. Apple is really pushing the iTMS

The first one is obvious, but I think the second is more important. HP will ship iTunes as the standard player with all of their computers and will sell the HiPod to go with them, probably even as bundle with printers.

This means you will see the HiPod in Walmart and that has to be good for sales.

Jobs mentioned in his keynote that Apple were working on eliminating the other hard disk iPods and this is probably his strategy. By selling a basic 3rd generation iPod at a baseline profit margin they will build the iPod/iTMS brand name and so increase the use of iTMS, which in turn will drive sales of the latest iPods because they will be the combination to have.

Did anyone see that thing Gates was touting by Creative. It looks like an ARCHOS rip-off. I wonder how many virus will be available by the time it ships in Q3 2004.

pcharles
Jan 10, 2004, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by Hector
can we stop with the quoteing of maclarny It's been done like ten times read the entire thread before you post

(did apple sell all it's style/laserwriter tech to HP?)

I am pretty sure the original style writers were based on Canon Technology. The one I had was the similar to the BJ-10. I remember Canon cartridges were cheaper. I think it did one page per minute "high" quality and 2 pages at "Draft."

Didn't Apple get the laserwriter technology from Xerox about the same time they got the GUI technology?

northstar
Jan 10, 2004, 01:51 PM
From what i gathered from the article, the bigger deal here is HP installing iTunes on their pcs and laptops in the future. In doing so, they allow the casual pc user to discover Apple software and perhaps the iPod itself, when they were previously oblivious to its existence.

winmacguy
Jan 10, 2004, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by northstar
From what i gathered from the article, the bigger deal here is HP installing iTunes on their pcs and laptops in the future. In doing so, they allow the casual pc user to discover Apple software and perhaps the iPod itself, when they were previously oblivious to its existence.

Bingo! never mind the colour preference of the HiPod, by getting iTunes onto an HP/Compac PC , laptop you get in 33% of the PC user market world wide that HP has. A very effective way to spread iTunes, iTMS and AAC. When it comes to music players you make the customers choice for them. Remember most customers are not very tech savy . They want to be able to go into a computer store and pick up their all in one PC/OS scanner, printer multimedia package. Pay their money take it home plug it in and turn it on and send some emails, write some word documents, attempt and xcel spreadsheet maybe, play some games and listen to music on the music player that came with the PC.

Maybe their kids might want to burn few MP3 CDs and or possibly load Windows Media Player but other than that the majority of people out there would be happy to just be shown how to play a CD on their PC which in this case will be on iTunes.

akac
Jan 10, 2004, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by PDubNYC
as I tried to submit, Thurrott is reporting on winnetmag.com the following:

"Exclusive: HP Working to Get WMA on iPod
__ HP's blockbuster deal with Apple will have one exciting side effect, I discovered today. The company will be working with Apple to add support for Microsoft's superior Windows Media Audio (WMA) format to the iPod by mid-year. You heard it here first."
http://winnetmag.com/Article/ArticleID/41423/41423.html

That could open up the audience for the iPod significantly, in my opinion

Superior my foot ... Paul Thurrot is a stooge. A bloody moron in my book.

MacReason
Jan 10, 2004, 04:52 PM
If by "superior", he meant superior in distribution he is right: nearly 90% of computer users are nudged (read: forced) into Windows Media Player. So WMA is superior in that sense. I think what he meant by superior was ubiquitous.

damax452
Jan 10, 2004, 05:54 PM
OOH how nice, an iPod minus the one feature that makes it so cool: made by Apple. Slap HP logos on an iPod and make it ugly blue, they should call it gayPod. w00t!

akac
Jan 10, 2004, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by MacReason
If by "superior", he meant superior in distribution he is right: nearly 90% of computer users are nudged (read: forced) into Windows Media Player. So WMA is superior in that sense. I think what he meant by superior was ubiquitous.

But if 70% of the legal downloaded music is AAC - then AAC is superior. No, he really meant it as being technically superior - which its not.

DTphonehome
Jan 10, 2004, 06:01 PM
Originally posted by sethypoo
To me, it looks like the front was dyed with cheap fabric dye. The HP logo on the back looks like it was either taped on or somehow engraved.

Hmm, yes, with some sort of "laser engraver", perhaps. Maybe Apple should engrave their hPods with the APPLE logo! And offer customers the chance to use this device to customize their player! Wow, what a machine!

--DT

pcharles
Jan 10, 2004, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by MacReason
If by "superior", he meant superior in distribution he is right: nearly 90% of computer users are nudged (read: forced) into Windows Media Player. So WMA is superior in that sense. I think what he meant by superior was ubiquitous.

It is most definitely superior to MP3. The compression algorithm certainly creates significantly smaller files than MP3, but I am not sure how it compares with AAC. The problem is that most Windows users are unfamiliar with AAC and so assume that WMA, Real, and MP3 are the only players.

sushi
Jan 10, 2004, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by pcharles
It is most definitely superior to MP3. The compression algorithm certainly creates significantly smaller files than MP3, but I am not sure how it compares with AAC. The problem is that most Windows users are unfamiliar with AAC and so assume that WMA, Real, and MP3 are the only players.
I would be curious to see your reference on this. Please site your source.

Reference MP3. The MP3 format has many different encoding settings which affect the output.

At high level encoding, MP3 is, for all practical purposes, the same as AIFF files.

Sushi

edgar_is_good
Jan 10, 2004, 06:33 PM
Originally posted by pcharles
It is most definitely superior to MP3. The compression algorithm certainly creates significantly smaller files than MP3, but I am not sure how it compares with AAC. The problem is that most Windows users are unfamiliar with AAC and so assume that WMA, Real, and MP3 are the only players.

I really think they should have called AAC mp4. Yes, yes, I know mp3 doesn't mean "3rd version of mpeg". But lots of people don't know that. My girlfriend just asked whether the ipod would play mp4 and I had to explain that was basically aac. If it were called mp4 EVERYONE would demand their mp3 player played it, because it would be the "obvious" next thing.

fatfish
Jan 10, 2004, 06:52 PM
Originally posted by edgar_is_good
I really think they should have called AAC mp4. Yes, yes, I know mp3 doesn't mean "3rd version of mpeg". But lots of people don't know that. My girlfriend just asked whether the ipod would play mp4 and I had to explain that was basically aac. If it were called mp4 EVERYONE would demand their mp3 player played it, because it would be the "obvious" next thing.

Here, Here.

ClimbingTheLog
Jan 10, 2004, 06:54 PM
Originally posted by PDubNYC
The company will be working with Apple to add support for Microsoft's superior Windows Media Audio (WMA) format to the iPod by mid-year.

The PortalPlayer chip plays WMF already, Apple just needs to enable it. iTunes is a different story - Apple would need to license it from M$ and include it in QuickTime.

HP might also have contractual obligations to support WMA on all their products, for cheap Windows licenses (monopoly?, what monopoly?), and this is just posturing to keep them out of legal hot water.

ClimbingTheLog
Jan 10, 2004, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by sethypoo
The HP logo on the back looks like it was either taped on or somehow engraved.

Apple offers custom laser engraving on the back of iPods. They just did an HP logo instead of "For Suzy, love Mom".

ClimbingTheLog
Jan 10, 2004, 07:21 PM
Originally posted by pyro
Instead of making support for ****ty little wma files how about flac, shn, or ape?


It's not up to Apple. The iPod uses a PortalPlayer chip, which can do AAC, MP3, WMA, WAV, AIFF, and ACELP.NET.

Now when the new iPod comes out based on Apple & IBM's ultra-low-power PowerPC chip, then they can do their codecs in software and support all the formats they want.

rhpenguin
Jan 10, 2004, 07:44 PM
This is a good thing, but I do phone support for HP/Compaq hardware and this means i have more learning ahead of me. Maybe even a free HP branded iPod!

Horray for me!

Supa_Fly
Jan 10, 2004, 07:55 PM
Did anyone watch the footage and LISTEN to it??

SOrry if this was already mentioned (first 4 pages and nothing).

She said something about HP has the means to market, supply chain and the connections to bring this to so many COUNTRIES around the WORLD!!!

Does this mean that the HP PC and iPod will allow people in the UK or elsewhere overseas???

This cannot be a major deal unless HP could pre-install the ITMS on every machine and have iPods in other countries were their customers COULDN'T benefit from it!!!!


I say the biggest announcement for the majority of iTMS lovers will be overseas purchasing and downloading!!! Sweet!!!

Angelus
Jan 10, 2004, 08:04 PM
Overall this is very good for apple.
By simply installing itunes on every hp pc they are opening a door for:
1.itunes music store
2.possible switchers

I don't like the blue colour though,looks kinda dodgy in my opinion but it will appeal to some i suppose. I know i should be pleased that apple are selling more ipods but i must confess that it felt so much better when i had the ipod->imaginary social standing among my technophile friends.

I wonder if they will come with HP blue earphones too:)
It will be like wearing gang colours except we're all playing for the same team.

beatle888
Jan 10, 2004, 08:30 PM
Originally posted by Prom1
Did Does this mean that the HP PC and iPod will allow people in the UK or elsewhere overseas???

This cannot be a major deal unless HP could pre-install the ITMS on every machine and have iPods in other countries were their customers COULDN'T benefit from it!!!!


I say the biggest announcement for the majority of iTMS lovers will be overseas purchasing and downloading!!! Sweet!!!


eventually, I'm sure. But I think you might be reading too much into it. When she says HP will install ITMS on all HP computers it doesn't mean that all countries will be able to use ITMS right away. I would guess that the countries that ITMS doesn't support now will only be able to use the application as a jukebox, not an online music storefront.

I'm sure Apple's working on global support though.

MCCFR
Jan 10, 2004, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
Nice find. I haven't been visiting AtAT enough lately.

Here are links to both stories:

Who? When? Whuzza? (1/09/04) (http://appleturns.com/episode/?id=4433)
Skip Copying, Go For Cloning (1/08/04) (http://appleturns.com/scene/?id=4430)

I can't work out what's funnier, the skit or the MS "reducing customer choice" thing in the serious article.

Actually, the skit is just funny, whilst the MS thing is so far into surreal I expect David Lynch to adapt it into a movie.

MCCFR
Jan 10, 2004, 09:05 PM
Originally posted by Prom1
Did anyone watch the footage and LISTEN to it??

SOrry if this was already mentioned (first 4 pages and nothing).

She said something about HP has the means to market, supply chain and the connections to bring this to so many COUNTRIES around the WORLD!!!

Does this mean that the HP PC and iPod will allow people in the UK or elsewhere overseas???

This cannot be a major deal unless HP could pre-install the ITMS on every machine and have iPods in other countries were their customers COULDN'T benefit from it!!!!


I say the biggest announcement for the majority of iTMS lovers will be overseas purchasing and downloading!!! Sweet!!!

That could be part of the reason for delaying the start of the deal until the summer. My personal view is that Apple is lining up a major announcement to do with iTMS timed to coincide with MIDEM, which just so happens to coincide with the 20th anniversary weekend.

HP's "capabilities" apparently extend to 178 countries worldwide, so this will definitely give 'iPod' a global reach which would have been beyond the reach of Apple, given that it still works through distributors in a number of end-markets.

Java
Jan 10, 2004, 09:21 PM
Maybe I am suffering from amnesia, but what has HP been an innovator? Yes, compared to Apple, HP is an innovator.

As long as Apple is letting other companies make clones, can they put out a poster stating, "Let's kick Microsoft's ass"? (Sorry, couldn't help that one)

beatle888
Jan 10, 2004, 09:49 PM
Apple isn't letting anyone make anything. Apple is making the iPods for HP and selling them to HP for wholesale...or so it seems. I guess HP innovates in ways that isn't really apparent to the average consumer. Maybe they have some really good business solutions. Actually, I think that's right, I believe they innovate in the business sector...could be wrong though.

initiald
Jan 10, 2004, 09:55 PM
Originally posted by Scottgfx
Yeah, that would be so cool. They should call it AAC! (for no particular reason)
ACC IS not owned by apple

Ktulu
Jan 10, 2004, 10:12 PM
I just read through all of the posts and noticed that no one mentioned the fact that if iTunes and ITMS is automatically on every HP computer sold
(let's assume that it is starting at the same time as the HiPod, sorry if they mentioned this in the video, I couldn't get it to work)
then that will mean that Apple has achived a first for the company, my recolection in the very early days is very sketchy so if not true please forgive me.

Apple will have one of its' own products-(software) in the corporate sector. This could make small inroads for the Xserve into corporate situations if IT departments see that it is the default for there new HP's then they might take a closer look at what Apple has to offer without the prejuduces that most WinTel people have.

As I said just a thought:rolleyes:

ClimbingTheLog
Jan 10, 2004, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by Java
Yes, compared to Apple, HP is an innovator.

Microsoft has redefined innovation. It used to be similar to "invention", but now it means "repackaging other peoples' stuff and calling it your own invention". So, yeah, HP, fits the bill in their PC department. Their printers and industrial gear is really a different company.

winmacguy
Jan 10, 2004, 10:34 PM
Originally posted by Prom1
Did anyone watch the footage and LISTEN to it??

SOrry if this was already mentioned (first 4 pages and nothing).

She said something about HP has the means to market, supply chain and the connections to bring this to so many COUNTRIES around the WORLD!!!

Does this mean that the HP PC and iPod will allow people in the UK or elsewhere overseas???

This cannot be a major deal unless HP could pre-install the ITMS on every machine and have iPods in other countries were their customers COULDN'T benefit from it!!!!


I say the biggest announcement for the majority of iTMS lovers will be overseas purchasing and downloading!!! Sweet!!!

That would be correct. HP has a WORLDWIDE market share of 35% and from what I read earlier something like 110,000 distribution channels ( ie electronics and appliance retailers) world wide. So that means that when HP loads iTMS on to the PC at time of manufacture it could then be shipped off to a distribution out let in Germany, France, Ireland, Austraila, New Zealand, England....... basically any country in the world outside of the US where HP sells PCs.

Supa_Fly
Jan 11, 2004, 12:04 AM
MCCFR, and WinMacGuy,

Thanks for your insight. I'm thinking that this will indeed be better for Apple.

Now on the part of HP being an innovator....this is actually legit, not of lately but remember they've been around a lot longer than M$ or Apple. It used to be owned by a Family that was also started in a Garage.

Hewlett Packard had many subsidiarys.....Hewlett & Packard is one of them I believe. I think they've innovated components to the common HIFI stereo if I'm correct.

I do hope to see iTMS workout for more countries before the summer begins...why? Most memorable hits are released in the summer, along with people dressing less, having less stress, becoming more fit, listening more to music, etc etc (hey don't bash me on this.....I'm freezing here in Hamilton at -28 degrees Celcius!!

I'm starting to realize that I can archive most of my data off of my Tungsten T1; and replace most of my usuage with a SonyEricsson T616 and an iPod Mini. Sure I'd loose out on eBooks but hey Audible should tie me over right??LOL!!

SeaFox
Jan 11, 2004, 02:01 AM
Originally posted by Powerbook G5
Either way, Apple wins if it is in fact Apple who is receiving to profits from these HP branded iPods. Does this mean that HP just gets the mindshare or would they get some of the cash, as well?

Well, Apple has huge profits and PC makers are used to selling all their lower cost PC's for little profit if not at a loss. So I imagine Apple dropped their margin a bit and HP takes up the slack for itself.

mzlin
Jan 11, 2004, 02:08 AM
Don't think all PC makers are the same. HP is no Dell or Gateway. HP is the granddaddy of technology companies; before they made PCs they made everything electronic from transistors to processors to calculators to mainframes. In fact HP is still primarily not a PC company; virtually all their profits now come from the sales of inkjet printers and inks (which they invented), and they are trying to get into servers and services (like IBM).

HP has always innovated on the science and engineering side of things, kind of like IBM but not as big. HP has a long history of real basic science and engineering invention, and that's real invention, not business model invention like some of you kids here are speculating. For decades they held the lead in high-end calculators; this was back when getting logical circuits into a handheld device was a big deal. They invented inkjet printing and continue to make improvements there. They are doing some basic research on molecular electronic circuits -- circuits made of atomic-level structures. They were doing some development on instruments for all sorts of things including high-throughput DNA detection and nanoscale biology before they spun all that off into Agilent. They made their own line of server chips until Intel and Sun and IBM made it too difficult for them. There are a ton of other things that I don't know about. I think after IBM, HP has the most new patents issued a year.

There's a little more here:
<http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/hpads/1999/timeline/timeline.html>

This alliance with Apple is actually an alliance of two old innovation-driven companies that have lots of experience in seeing their ideas copied by others for cheaper, against two of the most unapologetically unoriginal of those copy-catter companies -- Microsoft and Dell. So those of you who mock HP's claims to innovation should do a little research first, and then save your rotten tomatoes for those companies who really claim credit they don't deserve.

maxterpiece
Jan 11, 2004, 02:13 AM
Originally posted by Prom1
I'm freezing here in Hamilton at -28 degrees Celcius!!


holy crap that's cold... it is -13 celcius here (8 farhenheit) with a wind chill of -4 fahrenheit (NYC area)... and i can't take it.

someone said (something like) "AAC isn't Apple technology" -- AAC isn't apple tech, however the ITMS DRM, Fairplay, is apple tech.

not that HP is copying or ripping Apple, but in regard to the attempts made to say that and compare that to microsoft -- it is the nature of business for people to copy innovation. Getting bitter about it does nothing. It is those who continually innovate their technology that succeed. If Apple is to maintain their lead in the digital music "revolution" (i don't know if that deserves quotes or not), they have to keep make their solution the best. Other's copying apple will only spur them forward and will only make our experience and options better. If apple ever stops making new, great and usuable tech and decides that people should buy their products simply because they innovated the technologies (even though they are available by those who copied them), then I'll jump for a PC and save myself a bunch of cash. Apple did just that in the 90s when they lost all that market share and people were saying they were heading towards bankruptcy. When I was looking at my choices for a new comp in '97, I chose a PC because i had no reason to justify spending a ton of money on an apple. And I don't want to hear anyone jumping in and screaming at me for my loyalty... Apple is a company. if you were to give them your money no matter what because apple is your friend (or something), they'd take it and run. It is fun to root for apple because there arent very many companies that draw their customers mostly through innovation. ON and on I could go, but i think you've got my point.

SeaFox
Jan 11, 2004, 02:17 AM
Originally posted by pyro
Instead of making support for ****ty little wma files how about flac, shn, or ape?

If they made the iPod and iTunes compatable with some of those files (preferably flac and/or shn) then they'd have nearly the entire bootleger community on their side.


Who owns SHN and FLAC? Maybe it's a licencing issue.

Then again they don't support Ogg Vorbis, either. Doing that and releasing iTunes for Linux would make the whole open source community cheer.

SeaFox
Jan 11, 2004, 02:35 AM
Originally posted by avus
You should keep doing that if you like to listen to what is available in iTMS US, because iTMS Japan will feature a completely different set of music and musicians for an obvious reason (catering the Japanese market, that is).

That's not a good reason!

We're talking about an online business here. There's no shelf space to devide out to differnt genres.

True, Apple could have a localized start page for the iTMS's foreign counterparts-- Actually, they could have a customizable start page for everyone via a cookie or something. Electronic music fans get Paul Oakenfold's celebrity playlist and don't see that Nelly has a new album out, ect.-- but where was I, oh yes. There's no reason not to make the American content available in Japan (and the Japanese content available in the U.S.) for marketing reasons. People just buy what they want and ignore what they don't. This would make it a heck of a lot easier for people who enjoy "World" music to find it. Imagine you're studiing another culture for school, you could go to the ITMS and get ahold of tunes from that region without having to choose from the paltry dozen or so artists the record store keeps (and pay horrible import prices for albums).

Apple could still charge differntly for the tracks, with pricing based on your address if this is an international licensing issue. But there's no reason to keep content separate when everyone's accessing it through a global network.

SeaFox
Jan 11, 2004, 03:10 AM
Originally posted by iMeowbot
In a poll conducted right here (http://www.macpolls.com/?poll_id=346), a solid 43% picked blue as their most wanted iPod color! Nothing else came close.

If the Cylon Red control button lights are replaced with either white or blue, I'm buying like three dozen of 'em (or at least one anyway).

Yes, but I think we were talking about a rich metallic blue. Not the blue you get when you eat a rich metallic blue iPod and throw it back up twenty minutes later.

SeaFox
Jan 11, 2004, 03:20 AM
Originally posted by Fukui
You mean the ones that try to sell you those 40 Gigahertz hard drives?

I was at Best Buy once and had to lecture one of their computer guys about the correct specs for WiFi. He was trying to tell me the types were 802.11a, b, and c. And he thought 802.11c was the "secure" one. He didn't know G could be used on B either.

I had to run down all the specs (and inform him 802.11i was the secure one and hadn't been ratified yet). Before he believed I actually new what I was talking about.

It's kinda sad when you know more than the guy getting paid nine-something an hour and has been "trained" in all this stuff.

Especially since I had applied for job there and never got called back.

jnasato
Jan 11, 2004, 04:02 AM
I agree with probably more than 80% of this thread...

Blah.

Cochrane
Jan 11, 2004, 04:35 AM
When I first saw the picture I thought it was a joke. Someone using Photoshop to make the player blue. It just looks horrible! I don't like the look of the 3G-iPods compared to 1/2G and mini but in this fashion it just looks bad.

I imagine scenes on the street where"White-Pod"- Users start laughing at someone who uses a "Blue-Pod" and tell him that "this is not the real thing, only for people to poor to buy a real player or for people not cool enough for an iPod". That's the way I will do it even though I still use a 2G-iPod.

If you say that's mean then you're right.

lakhdip
Jan 11, 2004, 08:08 AM
Originally posted by Bob Knob
Hmm, HP is the innovator? That's like saying the guy who put the first whitewalls on tires invented the wheel. I think she has been drinking the same water that Gates does.

She said HP is an innovator, and that is very true.

Apple is a great company and has some very innovative products, but HP founders made a contribution far greater than Apple has. It's hard to find a greater example of something done well than what Packard and Hewlett did with HP. Their innovation in products was matched only by their commitment to their employees and their values.

hipvictor
Jan 11, 2004, 10:11 AM
Appleturns correctly identified the variety of HP blue...

corpse blue.

it is the CSiPod. Someone need to find who killed it...certainly it wasn't Jonathan Ives.

MrMacMan
Jan 11, 2004, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by fBaran
Oh wow. That's so NOT gonna make me buy on now. [insert online sarcasm 8)]

Its not sarcasm is you have to say it is.

That is just 'Irony'

It has to be intended, understood to be Sarcasm.



Also the color looks bad... but I guess I will have too see it in real life for a better view...

flipperfeet
Jan 11, 2004, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by SeaFox
That's not a good reason!

We're talking about an online business here. There's no shelf space to devide out to differnt genres.

True, Apple could have a localized start page for the iTMS's foreign counterparts-- Actually, they could have a customizable start page for everyone via a cookie or something. Electronic music fans get Paul Oakenfold's celebrity playlist and don't see that Nelly has a new album out, ect.-- but where was I, oh yes. There's no reason not to make the American content available in Japan (and the Japanese content available in the U.S.) for marketing reasons. People just buy what they want and ignore what they don't. This would make it a heck of a lot easier for people who enjoy "World" music to find it. Imagine you're studiing another culture for school, you could go to the ITMS and get ahold of tunes from that region without having to choose from the paltry dozen or so artists the record store keeps (and pay horrible import prices for albums).

Apple could still charge differntly for the tracks, with pricing based on your address if this is an international licensing issue. But there's no reason to keep content separate when everyone's accessing it through a global network.

Respectfully, I believe this is primarily an issue related to the Daedalean nature of licensing in each country, not simply a marketing decision to offer certain content in one country and not the other. Although I have a hard time imagining Ayumi Hamasaki having the same level of success outside of Japan. ;)

pyro
Jan 11, 2004, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by SeaFox
Who owns SHN and FLAC? Maybe it's a licencing issue.

Then again they don't support Ogg Vorbis, either. Doing that and releasing iTunes for Linux would make the whole open source community cheer.

Well FLAC stands for "Free Lossless Audio Codec" (http://flac.sf.net) so to my understanding, nobody really.

And Shorten files (shn) I think are open source too (http://etree.org).

deejemon
Jan 11, 2004, 08:46 PM
*

iMeowbot
Jan 11, 2004, 10:58 PM
Originally posted by SeaFox
Yes, but I think we were talking about a rich metallic blue. Not the blue you get when you eat a rich metallic blue iPod and throw it back up twenty minutes later.

Oh come on, everyone knows that's not the real color. It's certainly not any of the blues HP commonly uses, and it's playing in the video off against a screaming blue backdrop.

HP's real life lightish blue should make the iPod look a lot like a giant Aqua widget, especially under that clear shell.

doogle
Jan 11, 2004, 11:11 PM
Originally posted by deejemon
I noticed that too, about the HP woman saying that they went "looking" for technology for their media player, but later saying that Apple "came to us". Seems to contradict themselves.


I think they rushed the speech part and never really worked how to make the speech (press release) satisfy both parties...(which party bent over for the other! ;)
Nobody wants to admit anymore that they didn't come up with the idea!

winmacguy
Jan 12, 2004, 01:25 AM
Originally posted by deejemon
I noticed that too, about the HP woman saying that they went "looking" for technology for their media player, but later saying that Apple "came to us". Seems to contradict themselves.

And she goes on about how innovative HP is. What exactly is their contribution to this product? They picked out the color and the name (boring name, btw), and they install iTunes on their PCs.

I think the so-called hPod is going to be in an interesting position, particularly as far as having its own identity. I expect that the hPod will identify itself slightly differently to iTunes, and also expect that iTunes will be updated so that it does not refer to the HP model as an iPod. I also expect Apple will also provide HP with an "hPod Software Updater". But iTunes has Apple logos all over it, and I expect an HP-branded version of iTunes would be out of the question. So, we have an HP product that isn't really, and relies on non-HP products (iTunes, iTMS).

I wonder whether HP will sell their version as being "Mac compatible", or whether the accessories supplied with the player will support the Mac (ie: will it only ship with the USB 2.0 cable, or with the regular iPod Firewire cable).

I also wonder whether there are any reciprocal agreements from HP - whether, in return, they have committed to bring any of their products to the Mac, or at least re-affirm their committment to the Mac. HP provided the last of the StyleWriter series, and they have printers and scanners, etc, but I wonder what else we can get out of them, or whether Apple thought to push them for anything?

In any case, the deal has the nice side-effect of getting QuickTime installed on every HP PC.

The main and obvious benefit is the fact that PC users buying a Compac laptop or HP PC will get iTUnes anywhere in the world in 173 countries that HP distributes to 33% of the PC market

rjstanford
Jan 12, 2004, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by winmacguy
The main and obvious benefit is the fact that PC users buying a Compac laptop or HP PC will get iTUnes anywhere in the world in 173 countries that HP distributes to 33% of the PC market Won't the other countries be annoyed when they find out that they can't use it without an American credit card...

-Richard

nagromme
Jan 12, 2004, 01:01 PM
Or within a couple bucks.

Why would Apple agree to be undercut?

And HP says they will be priced competitively. The iPod already is--it outsells all others. Nobody ever said the HP would be priced MORE competitively than the iPod already is.

By summer, iPods may well be even better/cheaper than now. But I can't imagine pricing being much different between Apple and HP.

pyro
Jan 12, 2004, 03:07 PM
Just found out that the Rio KARMA player has a 20gig storage thing currently and is planning to upgrade to 40 and 60 gig. It also supports FLAC files so untill the iPod can do **** like that I've lost all interest in ever buying it.

But also Theres one other flaw I've noticed with the iPod. Everything has to be in play lists. You can't do like with a mp3 CD where you can, for example, make a folder for Tom Waits, then make a folder inside of that for each album/show. With the iPod you have to just make a play list...

So I think iPod still has a way to go.

hipvictor
Jan 12, 2004, 03:24 PM
Pyro,
You should check out the iPod in person. There are two navigation options-- Playlists and Browse.

The Browse function allows you to Navigate by Genre, Artist, Album, and Song...within each category are subcategories-- i.e., artist>album>song. You can play all of an artists tunes, one particular album, one one particular song.

I own a 30gb and for a few weeks I had no playlists and just navigated via browse. It is very easy and very intuitive.

Hope you have interest again, dude.

hulugu
Jan 12, 2004, 05:05 PM
Originally posted by pyro
Just found out that the Rio KARMA player has a 20gig storage thing currently and is planning to upgrade to 40 and 60 gig. It also supports FLAC files so untill the iPod can do **** like that I've lost all interest in ever buying it.

But also Theres one other flaw I've noticed with the iPod. Everything has to be in play lists. You can't do like with a mp3 CD where you can, for example, make a folder for Tom Waits, then make a folder inside of that for each album/show. With the iPod you have to just make a play list...

So I think iPod still has a way to go.

Uh, Dude you're wrong. The iPod can do anything the Karma can except for the ethernet and FLAC/Ogg Vorbis support. It can do playlists on the fly, or it can play music by Genre, Artist, Album, Composer, etc. So you could set it to play randomly within your Tom Waits collection or play straight through Rain Dogs.
The Karma is not a bad device per se, but its interface isn't very good, the volume buttons, scroll button, and play buttons can't be operated with one hand, which is the true genius of the iPod.
Also, the iPod's headphones and dock are much better IMHO.

pyro
Jan 12, 2004, 06:03 PM
Alright sorry about that then. I was just going by what my bass teacher and this other guy told me about their iPods.

The flac thing is still a major must before I invest in anything like that since all I would listen to is bootlegs and they're all in lossless formats and intend to keep them that way.

Also sorry about the profanity, keep forgetting about that rule since it's not mandatory on any other boards I use.