iPhone 2.1 Beta 4 Seeded, Removes Push Notification Service

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple has seeded iPhone Firmware 2.1 Beta 4 to developers. As usual, Apple describes the content of the update as "bug fixes."

Interestingly, Apple has pulled the push notification service in this release "for further development." The capability was announced at Apple's Worldwide Developer's Conference Keynote in response to requests for background process support for third party iPhone applications. Applications that deal with messaging (such as AIM (http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=281704574&mt=8) or Facebook (http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=284882215&mt=8)) would likely stand to gain the most from the SDK enhancement. Apple had promised a September delivery of the functionality.

Apple began providing developmental support for the push notification service in iPhone Firmware 2.1 Beta 1 (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/07/24/apple-seeds-iphone-2-1-firmware-with-gps-features/). Not all registered iPhone developers have access to the seeds; the first seed was only available to iPhone developers who had been accepted into the program prior to July 11th (~4000 individuals).

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/08/16/iphone-2-1-beta-4-seeded-removes-push-notification-service/)

[Harpo]

Being careful I see...

[aethelbert]

So we can expect push notification services to be up (and working) by late November, I hope?

[Watabou]

They better have it ready by September but I also would like to see all bugs sorted out too.

[RevK]

... At this rate we'll NEVER see push on iPhone/iPod:(

[longofest]

Being careful I see...

I suppose it's better to be careful than to end up with Mobile Me again, but on the flip side, they do need to make sure they meet their deadlines.

[mike12806]

UNLESS.......2.1 has some yet-known feature that is requiring more dev attention than the push notification service???!!?!?! ;)

[RevK]

UNLESS.......2.1 has some yet-known feature that is requiring more dev attention than the push notification service???!!?!?! ;)

Not possible at this rate :rolleyes:

[nagromme]

Sounds to me like Push may well be coming in September as planned, but Apple wants to release 2.1 before then :)

In other words, whatever 2.1 brings is coming SOONER than expected, instead of waiting for Push to be ready in September.

Only a guess.

[iTeen]

Alright.

Maybe we will see this with the iPod Touch updates.

[BWhaler]

I hope the pulling of the push notification service is representative of a "new Apple," one that will only ship quality products.

I hope for 2.1, Apple takes their time and gets the iPhoneOS to be high quality and reliable. The company has been cutting corners for some time to meet deadlines. Let's hope those dark days of Apple's horrific quality are soon to be behind us.

[czeluff]

UNLESS.......2.1 has some yet-known feature that is requiring more dev attention than the push notification service???!!?!?! ;)

Ooh, like MMS, txt message forwarding, or cut/paste?!?!

[mike12806]

Ooh, like MMS, txt message forwarding, or cut/paste?!?!

Or video capture/imovie integration?!?!?!

[Sam Yikin]

Probably just decided it isn't ready

[Small White Car]

Sounds to me like Push may well be coming in September as planned, but Apple wants to release 2.1 before then :)

In other words, whatever 2.1 brings is coming SOONER than expected, instead of waiting for Push to be ready in September.

Only a guess.

My guess too. In other words, 2.1.1 will include Push and will come out when 2.1 was SUPPOSED to come out, but they want to move 2.1 up sooner to kill some of the bigger bugs.

Again, just a guess, but this likely means NOTHING has changed as far as Push is concerned. We're just getting some extra bug fixes early.

If this is true, it's great news. But who knows? I'm sure most people are going to assume the "push is delayed" idea as truth and just go with that. But the truth is, we have no idea.

[vandozza]

UNLESS.......2.1 has some yet-known feature that is requiring more dev attention than the push notification service???!!?!?! ;)

or they devoting more resources to fix the (either perceived or real) worldwide 3G reception issues that have been getting a fair bit of press lately?

[Peabody]

My guess too. In other words, 2.1.1 will include Push and will come out when 2.1 was SUPPOSED to come out, but they want to move 2.1 up sooner to kill some of the bigger bugs.

Again, just a guess, but this likely means NOTHING has changed as far as Push is concerned. We're just getting some extra bug fixes early.

If this is true, it's great news. But who knows? I'm sure most people are going to assume the "push is delayed" idea as truth and just go with that. But the truth is, we have no idea.

I agree. Fix the 3G issues now. Some of us would like to make and receive calls before push IMs...

[longofest]

My guess too. In other words, 2.1.1 will include Push and will come out when 2.1 was SUPPOSED to come out, but they want to move 2.1 up sooner to kill some of the bigger bugs.

Again, just a guess, but this likely means NOTHING has changed as far as Push is concerned. We're just getting some extra bug fixes early.

Could very well be the case, such as the 3G reception issues.

[holdthat230]

Can you please add land scape keyboard for texting. Please!!!

[amac4me]

Better safe than sorry.

[thedommer]

push would be great. But really all I need is stability and speed. no more freezing windows please!!! and slow contacts. other then that I dont really care about new features. get the old ones right first.

[Tragedies]

Do you guys think Apple will host an event for the iPod in September, and then just announce the release of 2.1, and possibly push services, just to add some more stuff to show off? xD

[daze]

Don't care about the push service so much. Would prefer to see the bugs fixed first especially the keyboard lag which is still there. Come on, let's see some good coding!

[Lepton]

When you say released to developers, you mean released to a FEW select developers. My guess is this version has enough new stuff that they want to release it to all developers, so they took push out and will probably do a general release soon, then add push and have it for the next general release, on schedule like they said.

[kornyboy]

Wirelessly posted (iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_0_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5B108 Safari/525.20)

I have really been looking forward to this. I hope they can get it worked out soon.

[JSUDaniel]

Ooh, like MMS, txt message forwarding, or cut/paste?!?!

Oh God... I hope so :rolleyes:

:apple: :apple: :apple:

[Rocketman]

By removing "features for testing" they get a good version except those features, which they desperately need for the other needed features.

Furthermore the push feature itself must be internally tested since that necessarily involves network as well as software issues.

I just wish Apple would address my post about them servicing and supplying the AT&T baseband requirements at each cell site and the HO switches. Apple has the capacity to design purpose specific boards for those tasks. AT&T buys them, so why not from Apple vs IBM or Cisco or whoever.

The iPhone IMPOSES a new paradigm on this world. That requires a network with about 5x the capacity as it had 6 months ago. GFL.

Rocketman

[gcmexico]

as long as they fix all the bugs I'm cool...push or now push

[Adisah]

I'm glad they are doing bug fixes now. Everytime they release an update there is always some annoying issue. They really need to crack down on that. I'm tired of getting a new update, having it work great for the first few days. Then, after a few days realize all the little bugs. I think they kind of update to frequently, they need to slow it down and focus and keeping everything bug free. Additionally, the soft reset takes forever. They need to work on that as well. Push Notifications can wait for now.

[8CoreWhore]

push got pulled:cool:

[eff pc]

Ooh, like MMS, txt message forwarding, or cut/paste?!?!

not so much the cut and paste but MMS and txt forwarding should have been in there from day one and if they r going to use viewmymessage.com first of all y doesnt it work on the iphone (well at least mine doesnt...barely works on the computer) and now that there r apps, y hasnt apple made an app that u can click on the link in the text and it opens the app

also idk about everyone else...once push AIM comes ill basically be done with the computer well maybe not. but push email needs a message box u can see when ur phone is locked (like a SMS msg) so u dont need to unluck it to see if u have an email b/c u cant always hear/feel it by time the next iphone comes out im hoping all the basic features are put in and all the glitches r gone (most likely getting the next iphone)

[InkMaster]

...or its going the same place as Home on iPod :rolleyes:

[a1016neo]

I think Apple is pulling Push Notifications from 2.1 because this will be released in Late August/Early September in time for the 3G fix and plenty of Bugfixes.... Then Apple will release 2.1.1/2.2 in late Sept with Push Notification... Just in time... Apple needs to squish these bugs fast.... :o

[theshadow07039]

How about lets stop ipod from skipping when multitasking god its sooo f#%king frustrating I want 1.1.4 Im going back to mac store to get degraded

[dissdnt]

Lets get back 1.4 stability... oh how i miss thee hehe, then start adding new fancy crap.

[Watabou]

Lets get back 1.4 stability... oh how i miss thee hehe, then start adding new fancy crap.

I agree my apps crash so much and I have the kepboard lag and the random screen scolling issues.

I want nicer performance now more than the new features.

[giovannii]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5F116 Safari/525.20)

I would love to see the reception issues fixed, but so far it does not look too good.

[Johnnnny]

My guess too. In other words, 2.1.1 will include Push and will come out when 2.1 was SUPPOSED to come out, but they want to move 2.1 up sooner to kill some of the bigger bugs.

Again, just a guess, but this likely means NOTHING has changed as far as Push is concerned. We're just getting some extra bug fixes early.

If this is true, it's great news. But who knows? I'm sure most people are going to assume the "push is delayed" idea as truth and just go with that. But the truth is, we have no idea.

In any case both of these things should be ready in less than a month, who cares if they come in one package or two, it's only a month, I wouldn't put too much thought into it, it's not long to wait at all.

[Quincy9219]

All that matters is that they pulled push notifications. They are afraid of creating another MobileMe mess and they don't want to take another hit. I seriously doubt that they are going to make 2 updates in a month, one adding as major an update as push notifications. And adding new features, yeah, right. 2.1 is just going to be bug fixes to improve stability. Apple doesn't want to add features right now, they want to make they ones they already have work the way they are supposed to

[dannyallen34]

With the Mobile Me fiasco, could it be that Apple is afraid that this push notification server would be launched and have major reliability issues?

I could imagine being logged into AIM with multiple conversations running then have the push notification server crash at Apple (with no announcement, of course). Then, several hours later, receive 30 notifications at once from the server saying I have 30 new IMs.

Also, Apple really needs to fix that keyboard lag. I can handle the random app crashes, but I got really good at typing fast on my original iPhone and now I dread having to type a text message when my keyboard has been lagging on the 3G.

Edit: Just realized the post right above me mentioned this lol.

[na1577]

Do you guys think Apple will host an event for the iPod in September, and then just announce the release of 2.1, and possibly push services, just to add some more stuff to show off? xD

That's not out of the question. When Apple announced the iPod touch last September, they announced the 1.1.1 software update, which included the wireless music store for iPhone.

I'm really not looking for new features until the software is stable again. Just the other day, my iPod completely shut itself off and wouldn't turn back on without a reset. I'm still experiencing keyboard lag, and application updates are still broken.

And while this isn't related to the firmware, I want a iTunes & Quicktime update. They broke both of them with the most recent release. iTunes still has trouble updating applications, and an additional bug with the desktop shortcut. Quicktime doesn't even launch, and according to Apple's support forums, I'm not the only one with this problem. (This is on a Vista 64-bit system)

[ortuno2k]

Excuse my ignorance folks - I thought push was already out? It works on my iPhone and Mail (sometimes better than others)
I'm kinda confused now. :confused:

A couple of real issues I see now are: Lag when browsing contacts, poor battery life (below expectations), and random app crashes (Safari, iPod)

[erikistired]

Ooh, like MMS, txt message forwarding, or cut/paste?!?!

i can hear the cheering already!

[Quincy9219]

Excuse my ignorance folks - I thought push was already out? It works on my iPhone and Mail (sometimes better than others)
I'm kinda confused now. :confused:

A couple of real issues I see now are: Lag when browsing contacts, poor battery life (below expectations), and random app crashes (Safari, iPod)

The App crashes and lag are things they are definitely working to fix. The battery life can't be helped, running applications, living in an area with poor 3G coverage, and surfing the web a lot drain it faster than tests would show. Remember, batteries are tested with absolutely perfect conditions (ie full 3G signal, etc.) so as to give maximum results.

As for the push notifications, what this is talking about is Apple's push notifications. Certain e-mail providers, namely Yahoo Mail, have their own dedicated push servers. Other applications, like MobileChat3 do too. Apple on the other hand is talking about implementing a push service so that apps like AIM, Palringo, and Facebook can get the same effect Yahoo Mail and MC3 (supposedly, there has been some hiccups with MC3) already have created through their own personal servers.

[Randman]

We don't need MMS. MMS is as dead as Betamax. Move on already.

[Animaniac]

Pretty obvious this means they're going nuts to get 2.1 out as soon as possible to deal with all the software bugs and reception issues. 2.2 is probably what will come out end of September with the push notification service.

[carousell]

Pretty obvious this means they're going nuts to get 2.1 out as soon as possible to deal with all the software bugs and reception issues. 2.2 is probably what will come out end of September with the push notification service.

lots of the software bugs are fixed. Zero change in reception quality so far though :( maybe beta 5.

[nickXedge]

Perhaps Push Notification Service is complete and they pulled it from the newest beta because they have no more need to mess with it and are now focusing on other issues/upgrades. I think it might be an unlikely possibility but a possibility nonetheless.

[Quincy9219]

i can hear the cheering already!

I can't wait to read all the disappointed posts when people realize 2.1 is just more bug fixes and minor additions. What people are asking for (video capture and MMS) isn't going to happen this time around. Maybe in the future, but it's really unlikely they are going to waist time adding major features when they have so many current problems. Cut and paste is a maybe, I've heard rumors floating around about that for a while, but there really is no evidence any which way whether or not it's going to come out. Don't get your hopes up people, Apple pulling push notifications is just evidence they are CUTTING features, not ADDING them. It is in fact more likely that they dropped more features along with push, just that push was the biggest and they didn't bother to mention their plans to toss in video recording or MMS or even cut/paste were cut at the last minute as well.

[daneoni]

As long as they fix those bugs. I'm still using 1.1.4 after hearing/seeing all the issues of 2.0/2.0.1. I care more about stability than the app store/other niceities

[xix]

Good. Ship when it's ready, Apple.

[aswitcher]

Push can wait if they fix the lag with most apps.

[fleshman03]

Push doesn't matter too much for me since I use gMail. I'd much rather have more stability fixes.

Maybe even for gMail to support push... Now that is dreaming.

[paja]

Apple, you have 20 billion in the bank, could you please hire another programmer to help the other one out!

I am so fed up waiting for fixes for my buggy iPhone!

[Bevz]

Sounds to me like Push may well be coming in September as planned, but Apple wants to release 2.1 before then :)

In other words, whatever 2.1 brings is coming SOONER than expected, instead of waiting for Push to be ready in September.

Only a guess.

I agree. Push Notification is not the only new API stuff they've removed which seems to confirm your guess :D

[Bevz]

Apple, you have 20 billion in the bank, could you please hire another programmer to help the other one out!

I am so fed up waiting for fixes for my buggy iPhone!

LOL Nicely said! :D

[jholzner]

Push doesn't matter too much for me since I use gMail. I'd much rather have more stability fixes.

Maybe even for gMail to support push... Now that is dreaming.

Well good...but push notification stuff they are adding has NOTHING to do with mail or gmail it may help you but you don't know it.

[SirOmega]

I said this when they announced the Push service - its going to suck battery life WORSE than push mail. And I've had a number of friends tell me that push email sucked battery life pretty hard (and have since disabled push email).

It was a bad idea and Apple should have either shipped a better battery, switched to Broadcom's BCM HSPA chipset (fabbed at 65nm and uses less juice), or just not offered it in the first place.

[vandozza]

Broadcom's BCM HSPA chipset (fabbed at 65nm and uses less juice)

sounds tasty... i'll take 2. thanks! :)

[j763]

meh, who cares... fix the 3G reception problem or give me landscape email and texting. not to mention copy and paste.

[Otaviano]

Ooh, like MMS, txt message forwarding, or cut/paste?!?!

MMS is dead, heck if Apple could have gotten away with it even SMS wouldn't have been on the phone. Get a third party MMS solution from the App Store and quit whinning already.

[Trajectory]

I guess Push was an Apple Oopsie.

[Barman91]

Apple has "pulled the push" notification service in this release

anyone else found this funny pullin push..lolol:D

[ThunderSkunk]

Yet another disappointment. Why am I not surprised that I am not surprised... this has gotten long since predictable.

Nice goin Apple.

[surferfromuk]

Makes sense.

It was probably something tagged to be managed by the rebellious and ineffectual I&ST department - Eddie Cue probably took a look at it and simply said 'not ready'

[Sijmen]

They pulled push? How dare they pull yet another app from the App Sto-

;)

[Grasbak]

I am looking at my desktop email and there are 3 unread messages. I look at my iPhone (push on, mobileme mail) and there are no-unread messages.

My wifes iPod touch doesnt always push out changes to the calendar made offline when she goes online (I assume it should push as soon as a connection is made)

Looks like they have stuff to resolve....

[petvas]

People confuse Mail push with the Notification Service that Apple announced for the iPhone. This service will be used by applications to trigger events on the iPhone. For example, an instant messaging application will be triggered to open if an incoming message comes. The app needs to be written in a way that supports the new API and contact the Apple Notification Server that will trigger the event on the iPhone.
Push has nothing to do with that!

[Phil A.]

Wirelessly posted (iPhone 16GB: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5F116 Safari/525.20)

My guess too. In other words, 2.1.1 will include Push and will come out when 2.1 was SUPPOSED to come out, but they want to move 2.1 up sooner to kill some of the bigger bugs.

Again, just a guess, but this likely means NOTHING has changed as far as Push is concerned. We're just getting some extra bug fixes early.

If this is true, it's great news. But who knows? I'm sure most people are going to assume the "push is delayed" idea as truth and just go with that. But the truth is, we have no idea.

In any case both of these things should be ready in less than a month, who cares if they come in one package or two, it's only a month, I wouldn't put too much thought into it, it's not long to wait at all.

The issue is this is a developer release and if you're a developer who has been working on an app based on the notification API you are left in limbo
You can't even continue to work with the third beta because there is no guarantee the API will come back the same.

[jodyfanning]

We don't need MMS. MMS is as dead as Betamax. Move on already.

MMS is a multi billion dollar revenue stream to the mobile operators. I'm sure they are all screaming that iPhone can't handle something this simple that is part of the 3GPP standards for a 3G phone.

Even the crappiest 5 year old Motorola can do MMS and yet the iPhone can't. I think Apple has their priorities in the wrong order. :eek:

Of course it might be that the iPhone makes up such a small part of the total market they don't care about the lost revenue from all those MMS based services.

[neurobound]

I don't know about this 'push' thing, but what bothers me about the whole 'app' situation...

It seems like Apple is free to write apps that tie very nicely in with the Iphone...

However, look at relatively simple apps like Pandora. Why can't it run in the background? Why can't there be exceptions? Apple claims that to do that would waste battery. So what? Let me make that choice. Apple wants to maintain too much control over the user experience at the expense of functionality here.

Be honest, wouldn't you love to be able to stream audio via AOL Radio or Pandora, while continuing to do other things... like browsing the web or writing an email? The hardware is fully capable of this, it's artificial limiations imposed by Apple preventing us from using it to their full extents.

Unfortunately there is no other device that touches the Iphone, so we're currently at Apples mercy here... However, I'm pretty certain THAT kind of functionaly is going to surface on another device and apple will then have no choice but to loosen its grip.

[johnnyjibbs]

Why would it be 2.1 (as opposed to 2.0.2) if it was nothing more than bug fixes? Besides, wouldn't touch owners have to pay for a .1 update?

Surely push is compng next month in 2.1. It may not be present in the current beta because they don't want to show it to all developers or they wan to do some internal testing or something.

I just wish they'd fix the variable volume problem though. I hat listening to the ipod app through the headphones but then it fadig off and not being able to hear the ringtone play because it is miles too quiet somethines through the headphones!

[Phil A.]

Surely push is compng next month in 2.1. It may not be present in the current beta because they don't want to show it to all developers or they wan to do some internal testing or something.


Push notification is only a framework that provides additional functionality for apps that are designed to take advantage of it.

If they don't seed it to any developers, no apps can be developed ahead of it's launch which would render the whole framework pretty useless on launch...

[arfeeman]

i'll thank about it

[Shasterball]

Hmmm, is this one of the first times Apple has taken a step back?

[santelia]

MMS is a multi billion dollar revenue stream to the mobile operators. I'm sure they are all screaming that iPhone can't handle something this simple that is part of the 3GPP standards for a 3G phone.

Even the crappiest 5 year old Motorola can do MMS and yet the iPhone can't. I think Apple has their priorities in the wrong order. :eek:

Of course it might be that the iPhone makes up such a small part of the total market they don't care about the lost revenue from all those MMS based services.
If you think for one moment to the seemless process of getting emails on iPhone, maybe you can consider that Apple ranks MMS like a jurassic way to communicate. I think MMS capability lack of iPhone is not a real lack, but mostly a strong choice. Apple has the leadership to change customers mindset, and this one could be the right time to make people move from MMS to email.

[sjo]

If you think for one moment to the seemless process of getting emails on iPhone, maybe you can consider that Apple ranks MMS like a jurassic way to communicate. I think MMS capability lack of iPhone is not a real lack, but mostly a strong choice. Apple has the leadership to change customers mindset, and this one could be the right time to make people move from MMS to email.

not necessarily, it might be just one of those features like copy & paste that are somewhere on the wish list, just not very high up on it. probably steve was very accurate when he stated that everyone at apple has more than enough to do.

[propropro]

If you think for one moment to the seemless process of getting emails on iPhone, maybe you can consider that Apple ranks MMS like a jurassic way to communicate. I think MMS capability lack of iPhone is not a real lack, but mostly a strong choice. Apple has the leadership to change customers mindset, and this one could be the right time to make people move from MMS to email.

Ok, but when you are the only one with an iPhone and a data plan, and the only one who can't send or receive MMS in your family and friends circle, MMS is a lot more important. In most european countries most people have no data plan in their phones and use MMS instead.

[entwife]

We don't need MMS. MMS is as dead as Betamax. Move on already.


except millions of people use mms every day.

[lunarmac]

This is such a fanboy response and someone who has clearly drunk the "kool-aid." Don't you realize that email is the anachronistic method of communication. We come from snailmail, email, then texting (MMS is just an extension.) You see, texting is the only true form of instant push communication. Nothing to configure because it is what it is. With push email things have to be configured for push - why mobileme took such a hit. Apple doesn't want to have mms because they want more money for mobileme. You see, the only way to get pictures from someone on an iphone is through email. And Apple will certainly sell you that service through mobileme which now has push capabilities that is to suppose to mimic MMS.

All this talk about how Apple is making the best choice for not including MMS and it's better for the public is pure BS. Remember Apple is in it for the money not to make your life easier (well they only use that if it benefits them.)

If you think for one moment to the seemless process of getting emails on iPhone, maybe you can consider that Apple ranks MMS like a jurassic way to communicate. I think MMS capability lack of iPhone is not a real lack, but mostly a strong choice. Apple has the leadership to change customers mindset, and this one could be the right time to make people move from MMS to email.

[MacEyeDoc]

Apple needs bug fixes more than anything else. I've had my new 3G iPhone for 9 days and have had to completely restore it 3 times - losing all my app data, presets, phone favorites, WiFi passwords, weather cites and stocks in the process. Why didn't I restore from a backup? "Backup file corrupted" actually is a screen you don't want to see, but it does exist.

I'm getting faster at doing the entire restore/reload/re-enter process (2.5 hours last night) but the phone is dead during that time. And I'm beginning to feel a little like a die-hard Windows user that I know - when I asked him if all the spyware and crashes in Windows annoyed him, he said no - every so often he just completed deleted his hard drives and then reloaded the OS and every piece of software and drivers he had one by one, and then everything worked fine again. He said he had the whole process down to about 6 hours, and he only had to do that about once every 3 or 4 months. I'd rather not.

Let's hope Apple can stop the crashing . . .

[daze]

I agree my apps crash so much and I have the kepboard lag and the random screen scolling issues.

I want nicer performance now more than the new features.

I agree. Performance is severely lagging. Scrolling is not "smooth as butta." I would expect this lack of polish from Microsoft, but not Apple. Seems as if Apple hasn't learned anything. Same company that used to point to their use of discrete GPUs versus some the lame Intel integrated versions... The shoe is now on the other foot as they do the same now with the Mac Mini, MacBook and Air.

[matatk]

If it is permitted, could anyone tell me if they have included an option to vary (read: increase) the text size for SMS messages? The lack of this feature is the one thing stopping me from buying an iPhone right now -- and I am desperate to replace my ageing handset!

I am vision-impaired (I can read if the text is large enough) and, from using others' iPhones, I think I could probably mange with the text sizes available as larger alternatives for emails and probably even some web sites, but not SMS. Apple list variable text sizes in some applications of the phone as an accessibility feature (http://www.apple.com/accessibility/iphone/) but it seems the failure to include the same functionality for text messages is either an oversight or even a business decision (but really, it isn't difficult to code such a feature).

It is disappointing because on the desktop they seem very keen on accessibility. Of course they could never make iPhone accessible to all users, but right now they could, IMO, really increase their potential market just by allowing us to make the text bigger -- preferably as a system-wide setting. I'd be happy to develop some software to fix this problem, but I'm told the SDK will not allow me to change any system settings, or write replacement apps for the core ones, and I don't want to jailbreak. Now that really is a shame, because it means I can't fix the problem for anyone else either. Maybe competition from Android will force them to open up a bit more -- fingers crossed.

There are alternative phones that can be made accessible (by adding text-to-speech software -- something I would love iPhone to have in the future) but I would really rather get an iPhone for many reasons, if only they made this small change. I was waiting until I found out about 2.1 to see if I should wait or just give up on the iPhone for now.

Any information (if you're allowed to give it) would be greatly appreciated!

[javaGuru]

except millions of people use mms every day.

I'm not too concerned about not having MMS. If I want to send a photo to a friend who has MMS I simply send an email to their MMS email addy. If apple does implement MMS I guarantee you that AT&T will charge more money for the service. People are already complaining about having to pay a lot extra for SMS. I would rather just use email which is free and unlimited.

[indiekiduk]

it probably got removed when they realised TCP push requires the phone to be on all the time and the battery will last about 2 hours. Wooooooops.

[indiekiduk]

If it is permitted, could anyone tell me if they have included an option to vary (read: increase) the text size for SMS messages? The lack of this feature is the one thing stopping me from buying an iPhone right now -- and I am desperate to replace my ageing handset!

I am vision-impaired (I can read if the text is large enough) and, from using others' iPhones, I think I could probably mange with the text sizes available as larger alternatives for emails and probably even some web sites, but not SMS. Apple list variable text sizes in some applications of the phone as an accessibility feature (http://www.apple.com/accessibility/iphone/) but it seems the failure to include the same functionality for text messages is either an oversight or even a business decision (but really, it isn't difficult to code such a feature).

It is disappointing because on the desktop they seem very keen on accessibility. Of course they could never make iPhone accessible to all users, but right now they could, IMO, really increase their potential market just by allowing us to make the text bigger -- preferably as a system-wide setting. I'd be happy to develop some software to fix this problem, but I'm told the SDK will not allow me to change any system settings, or write replacement apps for the core ones, and I don't want to jailbreak. Now that really is a shame, because it means I can't fix the problem for anyone else either. Maybe competition from Android will force them to open up a bit more -- fingers crossed.

There are alternative phones that can be made accessible (by adding text-to-speech software -- something I would love iPhone to have in the future) but I would really rather get an iPhone for many reasons, if only they made this small change. I was waiting until I found out about 2.1 to see if I should wait or just give up on the iPhone for now.

Any information (if you're allowed to give it) would be greatly appreciated!

If you jailbreak you can change the default system font, and you might be able to change the default font size...maybe.

[Griff110]

OOOhhh my god they pulled push,:mad: I'm so fed up with apple pulling stuff when they should be pushing stuff instead, I think Jobbsy should stop pulling his wanger and start pushing his staff and tell them stop pulling stuff and push it out, here we all are pulling our hair out waiting for Apple to push, push,:confused: but what happens they pull it!! I;d like to push my 3G up Jobbsies Arse and I would push it so far up his arse he or his staff wouldn't be able to pull it :D:D:D:D

hope that made you smile
Tom;)

[razorianfly]

Looking like early October for 2.1 then. :cool:

R-Fly

[macaco74]

I am confused...does this mean they will disable push e-mail as well? Meaning mobile me push to the iphone?

[lunarmac]

Yeah but where's the choice for the consumer.

Don't make excuses for apple (or any large corporation that limits consumer choice.)


I'm not too concerned about not having MMS. If I want to send a photo to a friend who has MMS I simply send an email to their MMS email addy. If apple does implement MMS I guarantee you that AT&T will charge more money for the service. People are already complaining about having to pay a lot extra for SMS. I would rather just use email which is free and unlimited.

[Niiro13]

I am confused...does this mean they will disable push e-mail as well? Meaning mobile me push to the iphone?

A few people here seem to be confused.

When they "pulled push", they're pulling push for third-party applications.

This does not mean they pulled push for their first-party applications. After all, the reason why they pulled push was for "further development". But why further develop email push when it works flawlessly (at least for me).

This is shown as SMS still works (SMS is the only thing on the phone with true push).

[eyephone]

I agree with most that apple should wait until this service is ready to release. I think that after the mobileme mess and some of the problems related to the iphone 2.x.x software bugs, that apple needs to step back and take a breather before releasing a new service worldwide.

I currently have no need for the push notifications, but there are many people who are desperately waiting for this, and this means high expectations.

Lets be patient and wait for a solid product.

[Maxington]

Better to be cautious than rush something like this out the door.

[Hooka]

I love how most of you are saying this is great. Apple says they will be giving us something and then when Apple takes it away everyone is like, "Oh, it's about time Apple did this the right way." The "push" mail with iphone is a fricking joke. I have missed so many emails. I get email 4 hours after the have been sent. My phone never updates for mail unless I do it manually. This whole bull crap roadmap to 2.0 is a joke and Apple only pretends to care. I have waisted countless hours with my phone trying to get it to work and not crash all the time. The app store is basically a fricking joke, and anyone who writes programs for it are a bunch of sheep.

[ntrigue]

I'm gonna go with Push on 2.0.2 in September and then 2.1.0.

[jwsmiths]

Sounds to me like Push may well be coming in September as planned, but Apple wants to release 2.1 before then :)

In other words, whatever 2.1 brings is coming SOONER than expected, instead of waiting for Push to be ready in September.

Only a guess.

That is my guess as well.... 2.1 will be bug fixes, minor features and 2.1.1 will be Push.

[pcorrado]

I'm not too concerned about not having MMS. If I want to send a photo to a friend who has MMS I simply send an email to their MMS email addy. If apple does implement MMS I guarantee you that AT&T will charge more money for the service. People are already complaining about having to pay a lot extra for SMS. I would rather just use email which is free and unlimited.

well isn't the message plan you have to buy with the iPhone is just the standard AT&T message plan, which includes 200, 1500, or unlimited of any combination of any type of message (SMS, Picture, Video, Sound).

[mcnicks]

Is there some reason why the notification service has to be 'push'? I think it would be good if there was a way to use it in 'fetch' mode, particularly if that would save on battery life.

Also, from a useability point of view, imagine having nine or ten applications that have notifications enabled: you could end up being constantly interrupted by lots of mindless chatter from your iPhone. :eek:

[QuarterSwede]

I love how most of you are saying this is great. Apple says they will be giving us something and then when Apple takes it away everyone is like, "Oh, it's about time Apple did this the right way." The "push" mail with iphone is a fricking joke. I have missed so many emails. I get email 4 hours after the have been sent. My phone never updates for mail unless I do it manually. This whole bull crap roadmap to 2.0 is a joke and Apple only pretends to care. I have waisted countless hours with my phone trying to get it to work and not crash all the time. The app store is basically a fricking joke, and anyone who writes programs for it are a bunch of sheep.
While I agree with the first part, I don't agree with the app store comment. Some devs are banking right now.

[Marky]

I'm not too concerned about not having MMS. If I want to send a photo to a friend who has MMS I simply send an email to their MMS email addy. If apple does implement MMS I guarantee you that AT&T will charge more money for the service. People are already complaining about having to pay a lot extra for SMS. I would rather just use email which is free and unlimited.

I wish it were as simple as that, but for most of us it isn't.

The Email to MMS work around you mention is only available in the USA. In the UK and rest of Europe we don't have that work around.

It is embarrassing when I have to admit to friends and colleagues, sorry my phone isn't as advanced as yours for photo sharing, OK it kicks their asses on most other fronts :), but none the less MMS is an unnecessary ommission by Apple.

As to the 'pulling' of 'push' in this beta, not too sure why this is an issue really as 'Push notification' services for third party apps isn't due until sometime in September (likely at the iPod keynote) anyway.

Kind regards

[Riemann Zeta]

This pushy service thing is not particularly important, but squashing remaining bugs from 2.0 is (especially the keyboard lag and the crappy 3G baseband firmware). Let's hope Apple spends a lot of time debugging this one.

[babyj]

Apple needs bug fixes more than anything else. I've had my new 3G iPhone for 9 days and have had to completely restore it 3 times - losing all my app data, presets, phone favorites, WiFi passwords, weather cites and stocks in the process. Why didn't I restore from a backup? "Backup file corrupted" actually is a screen you don't want to see, but it does exist.

The main cause of backup corruption (for me at least) is when I cancel a backup that has started - doing this leaves the backup unusable. So once its started you really need to let it finish, or if you need a backup you're in trouble.

I take a copy of the backup when its completed, just in case anything goes wrong and it also means I can cancel backups if necessary - knowing I've at least got a good and recent backup to go back to. Don't rely on Time Machine either as the backup is excluded from it.

[babyj]

That is my guess as well.... 2.1 will be bug fixes, minor features and 2.1.1 will be Push.

That wouldn't make sense. If they go with a bug fix first they're most likely to make that 2.0.2 rather than jump to 2.1. Its unlikely they'll add Push to a x.x.1 update either, more likely that will be a x.1.x update. If Push doesn't make 2.1 then I'd of thought we won't see it until 2.2.

They don't just make up the release numbers - there is a reason and pattern to them.

[Quincy9219]

OOOhhh my god they pulled push,:mad: I'm so fed up with apple pulling stuff when they should be pushing stuff instead, I think Jobbsy should stop pulling his wanger and start pushing his staff and tell them stop pulling stuff and push it out, here we all are pulling our hair out waiting for Apple to push, push,:confused: but what happens they pull it!! I;d like to push my 3G up Jobbsies Arse and I would push it so far up his arse he or his staff wouldn't be able to pull it :D:D:D:D

hope that made you smile
Tom;)

So, you would want Apple to force out low quality, buggy code that locks up your phone and renders it useless? Kinda what happened to some people when they release 2.0/2.0.1?

[MacEyeDoc]

The main cause of backup corruption (for me at least) is when I cancel a backup that has started - doing this leaves the backup unusable. So once its started you really need to let it finish, or if you need a backup you're in trouble.

I take a copy of the backup when its completed, just in case anything goes wrong and it also means I can cancel backups if necessary - knowing I've at least got a good and recent backup to go back to. Don't rely on Time Machine either as the backup is excluded from it.

A couple of questions for you:

1)How do you copy your backup?
2)Does your iPhone backup take more than 2 hours? (Mine has.)
3)How can you easily sync your iPhone without the backup function starting?

I have already disabled automatic syncing of my iPhone because 1) the backup takes WAY too long and 2) when I really needed it, it didn't work anyway (and I had not cancelled it).

Thanks for any helpful tips you have!

[williedigital]

We don't need MMS. MMS is as dead as Betamax. Move on already.

This is the two button mouse issue all over. Apple wants to kill this terribly exploitative "service" by moving all image transfers to email. They don't care that every other phone out there uses mms. They are drawing a line in the sand. Whether it is worth it, I don't know (see two-button mouse).

[Quincy9219]

This is the two button mouse issue all over. Apple wants to kill this terribly exploitative "service" by moving all image transfers to email. They don't care that every other phone out there uses mms. They are drawing a line in the sand. Whether it is worth it, I don't know (see two-button mouse).

Agreed, Apple made a decision, and is expecting their clout to carry the day. Maybe if this was the home computer market, they could make a decision like this and people would follow, but this is the cell phone market. They may be Apple, but in reality, the big players here are Samsung, Nokia, and Motorola. Apple doesn't have the cell phone clout to make a unilateral decision and expect the market to shift at Steve Jobs' word

[Hooka]

While I agree with the first part, I don't agree with the app store comment. Some devs are banking right now.

they can only write a program that Apple says are ok. Most of the paid apps are at version 1.0 or 1.01 while most updates are from free programs.

what good is a program like AIM if it can't let you know if someone is trying to reach you? It's a joke. Apple just made a cool more millions and has 24 billion in cash on hand.

[brian4610]

sorry for a lame question:

Is this "push" the reason why i'm not getting my emails from Yahoo in a timely fashion? Is it the same thing or different?

again, sorry....

[dwsolberg]

Apple needs to come to a dead stop, and forget the promise for third-party push. Just spend the time needed to polish and speed up the 2.0 software. What they've done so far is amazing, but I really like the Snow Leopard idea. Just stomp out those bugs, improve performance, and polish the interface. After that, we can start thinking about the new features.

In the meantime, the current applications are giving me plenty to enjoy.

[Juo100]

I dont mind if its slightly delayed id rather avoid the headaches (Mobile Me style) although I would really like it for things like Twitter, NetNewsWire, reQall, Facebook, Chat, etc etc.

My phone will probably never stop vibrating :P

[ryanwarsaw]

Sounds to me like Push may well be coming in September as planned, but Apple wants to release 2.1 before then :)

In other words, whatever 2.1 brings is coming SOONER than expected, instead of waiting for Push to be ready in September.

Only a guess.

We can only hope but I for one am not holding my breath.

[ryanwarsaw]

I agree. Fix the 3G issues now. Some of us would like to make and receive calls before push IMs...

some of us would like to actually do both but will take whatever we can get ASAP.

[swb1192]

ok, so i'm planning on getting my new iPhone 3G around Saturday, September 6. Who thinks there will still be all of these glitches by then, or who think they'll be fixed?

[vinniefm]

Seriously Apple, if I wanted a wi-fi device to get push notification from my Facebook account or an IM app, I would have purchased the Touch. I got the f'in iPHONE 3G because I needed a PHONE. You know, something that I could make a PHONE CALL with without having to reboot the thing 3 times to get it to connect even though the display shows full signal strength bars. Or even better, maybe a PHONE that would actually RING when someone was CALLING me rather than it going straight to voicemail. Just got off the phone with AT&T to start the discussion of first, getting a credit for the last ~2 weeks of piss poor service, and second, to get out of this contract. Once that happens, this brick of a thing is going to land back at your store on Michigan Ave in Chicago, a 3G thick coverage area and you're gonna give me my money back. And no, I won't be buying a Touch with the cash.

[deannnnn]

This is the two button mouse issue all over. Apple wants to kill this terribly exploitative "service" by moving all image transfers to email. They don't care that every other phone out there uses mms. They are drawing a line in the sand. Whether it is worth it, I don't know (see two-button mouse).

They finally caved on the two-button mouse.... so we'll see.

[deannnnn]

ok, so i'm planning on getting my new iPhone 3G around Saturday, September 6. Who thinks there will still be all of these glitches by then, or who think they'll be fixed?

Don't get your hopes up lol.... They are going to need at least a few more months before everything is fixed.

[skinnylegs]

Apple has the leadership to change customers mindset, and this one could be the right time to make people move from MMS to email.That is a lame excuse for Apple not providing a feature that many (most?) people want. Can we also dispel the myth that MMS is something only used by teenagers? I'm 48 years old and I use it all the time to communicate with friends and family. Sure, I can email my family/friends with iPhones and that's great but I also have a lot of family/friends who do not have iPhones and using the alternative method (@vzwpix.com etc.) is a pain in the arse.

Look....I'm not here to start flame wars and I am a strong supporter of Apple. I have an iMac, MB, :apple:TV, iPhone and numerous iPods. Essentially, if Apple sells it I buy it. That said, I have been *very* disappointed with the latest iPhone software or firmware or whatever you call it. I bought a first generation iPhone on day one and found the pre-2.0 software to be great. The phone worked as advertised and syncing was a breeze. Since upgrading to 2.0 and 2.01 everything seems to be going south. The problems I have noticed are.....

1. Custom ringtones stop working randomly.
2. Can't hear voicemail via BT ear piece.
3. Phone stops retrieving mail requiring a reboot.
4. Calendars don't sync properly.
5. UI is crazy slow.

The calendar thing *really* bugs me. I have multiple color-coded calendars (pending, reoccurring, meetings, holidays etc.) and it flat out doesn't sync properly. It either doesn't sync all calendars or items end up in the wrong calendar but the bottom line is that the calendar on my iPhone doesn't look anything like iCal and they should look identical seeing as the phone and iCal are both made my Apple.

I'll end my rant now by concluding that I will continue to use my iPhone and hope and pray that Apple works out these "kinks" quickly.

[scotty96LSC]

I think they want to be 100-percent sure because of the embarrassment in July.

[wildcardd]

Hmmm, is this one of the first times Apple has taken a step back?

Not a step back. Push Notification hasn't been released yet.

Nothing has changed with Push Mail.

[ThunderSkunk]

We don't need MMS. MMS is as dead as Betamax. Move on already.

Yeah, it's dead. Just like cars that run on gasoline are dead. Except, oh wait, what's that, a hundred million obsolete cars that are still running on gasoline.

It's not dead when everyone still uses it. As it stands, I know and/or work with several thousand people who all use MMS regularly, and about 6 iPhone users who are never in the loop. Oh, but we're so advanced.:rolleyes:

[twoodcc]

better safe than sorry i guess

[BWhaler]

I agree. Fix the 3G issues now. Some of us would like to make and receive calls before push IMs...

I agree. The ability to make calls and stay on the call without getting dropped is a core enabling feature of a cell phone.

Adding "push" is a nice to have. An important one, but it is not core.

The sad truth is Apple has been cutting corners for a couple of years now, both on the software side, but also with the hardware.

Apple finally got busted shipping software and hardware that is not production ready. (Leopard Server is still a total joke. Displays are still poorly lit. Heat issues through-out the mobile line, cracking iPhones, poor manufacturing fit and finish, sparking on the 30" displays for the past 5 years without a fix, Leopard client requiring the biggest patches in Apple's history and yet there are still features like Spaces and Firewall which make no sense in how they were designed, etc.)

I hope the executive team is finally understanding that innovation without quality is no way to build a consumer electronics/computer company. Sure, it works for exotic car makers, but not for the space Apple plays in.

[deannnnn]

Yeah, it's dead. Just like cars that run on gasoline are dead. Except, oh wait, what's that, a hundred million obsolete cars that are still running on gasoline.

It's not dead when everyone still uses it. As it stands, I know and/or work with several thousand people who all use MMS regularly, and about 6 iPhone users who are never in the loop. Oh, but we're so advanced.:rolleyes:

THAT WAS THE BEST EXAMPLE I'VE EVER HEARD!!!!!!!! :D

[agbot]

I have to agree with several other people in this thread. So Apple is dropping push notification service in the near term? Good. Get some core issues resolved before continuing to thin out the OS any further. When is my "Snow" iPhone OS release date? :)

[Santa Rosa]

What to make of the push notification services being removed for this build of the 2.1 firmware I dont really know what to make of.

For the firmware naming convention 2.1 suggests that it WILL be more than bug fixes. A x.x.1 update is bug fixes, a x.1.x update is feature additions to the OS and a 1.x.x update is an new OS and I'm going to guess that will also mean new hardware as well for the future.

The 2.1 beta seeds have been coming at a more quick pace of recent I think, which suggests that the final version of 2.1 is getting closer (if you apply the same logic of OS X releases). If they keep up at this rate I would say that it will be ready for release at the September event, yes it hasn't been announced but there has been one for the past 3 years.

Last year the event was announced on the Tuesday 28th August for the event to take place on the 5th September so hopefully we will be hearing something about it soon. Hence that gives roughly another 3 weeks for this build of the firmware to mature. Its at beta 4 so they should manage to maybe push out another 2 maybe 3 by then??

Steve should really take the stage in September and just admit straight up that they have gotten things a bit wrong. If he can do that and then deliver a new much better firmware I think a lot of people will be much happier.

[lorkkrue]

Is it that hard to have all voice calls to go through EDGES and not have 3G on; Or at lease the capability to switch the 3G on and off without disconnecting the call?
I can imagine this would extent the battery life significantly.

[el3ktro]

Is it that hard to have all voice calls to go through EDGES and not have 3G on; Or at lease the capability to switch the 3G on and off without disconnecting the call?

How do you think this should work? You can't expect to have a continuous connection when you actually disconnect from the network you're connected with.

I'd suggest this: The iPhone should stay on EDGE and only enable UMTS when an Internet application (Safari, Mail, Maps ...) is opened. The downside would be: If you don't have e.g. Safari open and are on EDGE and you receive a call, you can't go online during the call - this is only possible with UMTS.

[binaryskies]

Is it that hard to have all voice calls to go through EDGES and not have 3G on; Or at lease the capability to switch the 3G on and off without disconnecting the call?
I can imagine this would extent the battery life significantly.

Yeah, I do agree that it would be nice to have calls ONLY go through EDGE and leave 3G open for data only(if the service is available). It seems like that would be one way to fix the whole 3G problem, especially in heavy populated areas where 3G service is demanding. I also think that it would help battery life.

On the whole switching from 3G to EDGE without disconnecting the call idea, I personally don't think that is possible. My reasoning behind this is because every time I switch from 3G to EDGE manually my service bars disappear and after a second or two come back.

[eyebye]

I agree. Apple points to Windows Mobile's atrocious battery life and blames it on background execution yet Blackberry's OS lets apps run in the background and blackberry has awesome battery life. On my Blackberry I can launch the browser and start the download of a large page then switch out and do some e-mail management then switch back. It's a great productivity enhancer.

The truth is it's hard to control power management with a bunch of apps running in the background and so it's just easier to say "no" vs. solving a difficult development problem.


I don't know about this 'push' thing, but what bothers me about the whole 'app' situation...

It seems like Apple is free to write apps that tie very nicely in with the Iphone...

However, look at relatively simple apps like Pandora. Why can't it run in the background? Why can't there be exceptions? Apple claims that to do that would waste battery. So what? Let me make that choice. Apple wants to maintain too much control over the user experience at the expense of functionality here.

Be honest, wouldn't you love to be able to stream audio via AOL Radio or Pandora, while continuing to do other things... like browsing the web or writing an email? The hardware is fully capable of this, it's artificial limiations imposed by Apple preventing us from using it to their full extents.

Unfortunately there is no other device that touches the Iphone, so we're currently at Apples mercy here... However, I'm pretty certain THAT kind of functionaly is going to surface on another device and apple will then have no choice but to loosen its grip.

[gianly1985]

My dream when I first heard of this system was to be on messenger 24/7. (somehow it could make for a lot of sms)
But then iPhone 3g came out and the battery performances with push ON proved to be quite DISAPPOINTING.
So I'm not very excited about this system as I was time ago, it's pointless if battery drains out too quickly! :(

[babyj]

A couple of questions for you:

1)How do you copy your backup?
2)Does your iPhone backup take more than 2 hours? (Mine has.)
3)How can you easily sync your iPhone without the backup function starting?

I have already disabled automatic syncing of my iPhone because 1) the backup takes WAY too long and 2) when I really needed it, it didn't work anyway (and I had not cancelled it).

Thanks for any helpful tips you have!

The iPhone backup is stored in: <home>/Library/Application Support/MobileSync/Backup/

There will be one folder in the above made up of a load of numbers, take a copy of that folder to another location - preferably one that is backed up by Time Machine (if you use it). If you need to restore to a backup just copy the folder back to the above and iTunes will pick up on it - pretty certain you can have multiple backups in there and it will see them all. I'm also guessing there will be a seperate folder for every device iTunes manages.

With the v1 firmware iTunes backs up the entire device (less any media) every single time, which is why it takes so long all the time. With the v2 firmware it only backs up the changed files, so while the first backup will take a long time after that it should be relatively quick. If I install some new apps it can take a long time but normally it is pretty quick.

There might be an option in there now to stop the automatic backup, I haven't looked in to this though. As long as I get a good backup every so often I'm happy with cancelling the backup if I need to as I know I've got a backup to go back to. The sync will complete even if you cancel the backup.

[MacEyeDoc]

The iPhone backup is stored in: <home>/Library/Application Support/MobileSync/Backup/

There will be one folder in the above made up of a load of numbers, take a copy of that folder to another location - preferably one that is backed up by Time Machine (if you use it). If you need to restore to a backup just copy the folder back to the above and iTunes will pick up on it - pretty certain you can have multiple backups in there and it will see them all. I'm also guessing there will be a seperate folder for every device iTunes manages.

With the v1 firmware iTunes backs up the entire device (less any media) every single time, which is why it takes so long all the time. With the v2 firmware it only backs up the changed files, so while the first backup will take a long time after that it should be relatively quick. If I install some new apps it can take a long time but normally it is pretty quick.

There might be an option in there now to stop the automatic backup, I haven't looked in to this though. As long as I get a good backup every so often I'm happy with cancelling the backup if I need to as I know I've got a backup to go back to. The sync will complete even if you cancel the backup.

I see the Backup folders - thanks for the tips! I have been trying lots of apps, so that may explain why every backup seems to take forever.

[Lepton]

The push system Apple is working on is very smart. You will be able to have a hundred apps using push, with no more added impact on your battery at all than just having push mail.

The push mail works by having a persistent connection to the mail server. Every other app that does push is going to hang on this very same persistent connection. So there is no additional impact at all. Traditional systems maintain their own connections for every push, this would keep ypur radio busy, so would pull systems that always make connections to check for messages. The Apple system is easy on battery, and easy on data traffic.

The Apple system does have some limits, but they aren't bad. The thing that pushes a notification to your phone can not trigger your app and have it start running. All it can do is cause your phone to play a sound, or set one of those number badges you see on some app icons, or display an alert that gives a message and offers to open an app, like when a calendar notification or SMS comes in.

All in all it is a great solution for letting tons of apps do push without loading down the cell phone. I'm designing a game where you get beeped when your distant opponent makes a move and its your turn. This is cool, yet won't load down the phone at all. There will be lots of apps like this.

[TonyHoyle]

I agree. Apple points to Windows Mobile's atrocious battery life and blames it on background execution yet Blackberry's OS lets apps run in the background and blackberry has awesome battery life. On my Blackberry I can launch the browser and start the download of a large page then switch out and do some e-mail management then switch back. It's a great productivity enhancer.


To be fair a badly written background app *could* drain battery - although IMO that should be caught in the AppStore QA.

If an app spends its time asleep (eg. waiting for a connection to a specific port, waiting for a certain time period) then most of the time it's not running - it exists only as an entry in a list in the kernel, and I doubt you could measure the power difference, unless the OSX scheduler sucks *really* badly (which it doesn't seem to).

Where background apps cause issues is in memory.. the OSX on the iphone doesn't appear to have a swap file, so it leaves everything in memory all the time. You think Safari is unstable now wait until you see what happens when it has to compete for memory space with AIM...

The apple background thing is a reasonable idea but IMO it shouldn't rely on a central server - having every iphone in the world talking to a 'notification server' in cupertino is one massive single point of failure - and apple have shown that they're not that great at keeping servers up 24/7. I can imagine the flak they'd get if it went down and eg. Lotus Notes client was using it for mail notification.

[jfanning]

Apple has the leadership to change customers mindset, and this one could be the right time to make people move from MMS to email.

Yeah, because when you have 0.5% of the market, you can tell people how to do things.

[jfanning]

Is it that hard to have all voice calls to go through EDGES and not have 3G on; Or at lease the capability to switch the 3G on and off without disconnecting the call?
I can imagine this would extent the battery life significantly.

You might want to read before using various terms

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_Data_Rates_for_GSM_Evolution

[kakiser56]

I agree with this. I'd rather have push working correctly, and have current bugs fixed. If push needs to be delayed a bit to get it right, then maybe we'll be happier with the result.

My guess too. In other words, 2.1.1 will include Push and will come out when 2.1 was SUPPOSED to come out, but they want to move 2.1 up sooner to kill some of the bigger bugs.

Again, just a guess, but this likely means NOTHING has changed as far as Push is concerned. We're just getting some extra bug fixes early.

If this is true, it's great news. But who knows? I'm sure most people are going to assume the "push is delayed" idea as truth and just go with that. But the truth is, we have no idea.

[kakiser56]

To be fair a badly written background app *could* drain battery - although IMO that should be caught in the AppStore QA.

If an app spends its time asleep (eg. waiting for a connection to a specific port, waiting for a certain time period) then most of the time it's not running - it exists only as an entry in a list in the kernel, and I doubt you could measure the power difference, unless the OSX scheduler sucks *really* badly (which it doesn't seem to).

Where background apps cause issues is in memory.. the OSX on the iphone doesn't appear to have a swap file, so it leaves everything in memory all the time. You think Safari is unstable now wait until you see what happens when it has to compete for memory space with AIM...

The apple background thing is a reasonable idea but IMO it shouldn't rely on a central server - having every iphone in the world talking to a 'notification server' in cupertino is one massive single point of failure - and apple have shown that they're not that great at keeping servers up 24/7. I can imagine the flak they'd get if it went down and eg. Lotus Notes client was using it for mail notification.

Waiting on a port means the network is kept up and alive, which drains battery power. Most blackberry devices until recently are not 3G which also helps in battery life. Also the Blackberry push email is designed to conserve battery life, a lot better than Active Sync. I had a Moto Q which was 3G and had to charge it several times a day and all it did was get my email. There was no option, that I could find, to turn 3G off. My blackberry had great battery life, but then it really didn't do anything but get my email. I use my iPhone for phone calls, music, txting, internet, games, and other apps, and charging every 2 days or so, to me seems great. You need to look at what the device is being used for to compare to another device.

[eyebye]

Fair points. I have a Pearl 8130, which is 3G CDMA and I use all the things you're using on your iPhone (calls, music, texting, internet, games, and a few apps). The battery drain from continuous surfing is a bit high but considering how small the phone+battery are I consider the battery life reasonable for this usage.

Waiting on a port means the network is kept up and alive, which drains battery power. Most blackberry devices until recently are not 3G which also helps in battery life. Also the Blackberry push email is designed to conserve battery life, a lot better than Active Sync. I had a Moto Q which was 3G and had to charge it several times a day and all it did was get my email. There was no option, that I could find, to turn 3G off. My blackberry had great battery life, but then it really didn't do anything but get my email. I use my iPhone for phone calls, music, txting, internet, games, and other apps, and charging every 2 days or so, to me seems great. You need to look at what the device is being used for to compare to another device.

[TonyHoyle]

Waiting on a port means the network is kept up and alive, which drains battery power. Most blackberry devices until recently are not 3G which also helps in battery life.

Well you have to get push data to the phone somehow.. that requires a data connection. Running push on the iphone keeps the network up 24/7 already - otherwise it couldn't work.. it needs a consistent IP address. It's passive.. which means you can probably reduce the power usage somewhat, but it'll never be a zero drain. The original point being background apps waiting on a port wouldn't add to that one bit.

I'm told that blackberry have some means of signalling their phones directly in the same manner that SMS works but can't find any details of it.. probably proprietary and closely guarded.

I still can't really tell the difference between 2g and 3g for battery on the iphone. Both are around a days battery, give or take. Wifi off adds a little more.. but you want Wifi or 3G on somewhere because the iphone is primarily an internet device (to me at least).

[ratattak]

Yeah, it's dead. Just like cars that run on gasoline are dead. Except, oh wait, what's that, a hundred million obsolete cars that are still running on gasoline.

It's not dead when everyone still uses it. As it stands, I know and/or work with several thousand people who all use MMS regularly, and about 6 iPhone users who are never in the loop. Oh, but we're so advanced.:rolleyes:

really now, you KNOW several 1000 people? i do not even KNOW 200 people; Possibly 100 total.

and not only do you KNOW 1000's of people, but you ALSO KNOW what cellphones they use? Really now?

Personally, I do not use MMS. On my previous phone (before my iPhone), MMS was not included in my SMS plan, it was extra. If i really feel the need to send a picture, I will email it.

(Not this though: if you want to send pictures but do not want to email, you can use the Palringo app)

[ratattak]

Yeah, because when you have 0.5% of the market, you can tell people how to do things.

I dont think they are TELLING us to do things. We are all humans (most of us), and we all have the CHOICE to do/purchase something. No one is forcing us to all by iPhones (yet...) ;)

[MacEyeDoc]

The push system Apple is working on is very smart. You will be able to have a hundred apps using push, with no more added impact on your battery at all than just having push mail.

The push mail works by having a persistent connection to the mail server. Every other app that does push is going to hang on this very same persistent connection. So there is no additional impact at all. Traditional systems maintain their own connections for every push, this would keep ypur radio busy, so would pull systems that always make connections to check for messages. The Apple system is easy on battery, and easy on data traffic.

The Apple system does have some limits, but they aren't bad. The thing that pushes a notification to your phone can not trigger your app and have it start running. All it can do is cause your phone to play a sound, or set one of those number badges you see on some app icons, or display an alert that gives a message and offers to open an app, like when a calendar notification or SMS comes in.

All in all it is a great solution for letting tons of apps do push without loading down the cell phone. I'm designing a game where you get beeped when your distant opponent makes a move and its your turn. This is cool, yet won't load down the phone at all. There will be lots of apps like this.

Just want to give a shout for Lepton's blog, where I found this:

http://www.myallo.com/blog/2008/08/fixing-a-frozen-zonked-or-dead-iphone-or-ipod-touch/

which just happens to be the best description of what to do with the dreaded "white apple of death" or other assorted iPhone crashes. This should be a page on Apple's web site. I can tell you that when I first called Apple tech support about my first "white apple of death" (waod?) they didn't explain anything as clearly as this fellow does. Thanks, Lepton.

[matatk]

If you jailbreak you can change the default system font, and you might be able to change the default font size...maybe.

Thank you for this information. I have done some research but so far it seems that jailbreaking (especially using the app [I think it's an app] that allows font changes) seems even more fraught with danger of crashes and so on than using the iPhone normally :-).

I'd be concerned about paying out so much money and then ending up with a brick. My main interest in iPhone is for research and development purposes, so would also not want to do anything to upset Apple's dev tools -- though not yet sure if jailbreaking would cause problems there (not to mention it's probably against the EULA, if not worse).

It seems that the dust hasn't settled enough on the current system software or the development ecosystem for me to be able to make the changes I need in a way that can be used to benefit others as well as me. This is a shame, but what I expected given what I've read (mostly from this great and quite objective site and forum).

The best thing about your post is that it hints that the feature I am after may well be possible to implement even in the current software, if only a legit path to do so was exposed (or Apple implemented it). I hope that Apple get around to that soon, though it seems they have a lot else to worry about fixing first, for those of you that have already taken the plunge!

Thanks again for your reply; it is appreciated.


P.S. An observation: most GUI environments I've used apart from Mac OS (X) offer a desktop-wide font (and size) setting. It seems that, possibly due to something in the way that the Mac evolved as a platform, this never really came about and I have seen many desktop apps that offer a courtesy feature to not use fonts below a certain size. I can see why Apple may, given this position on the desktop or even just having separate app development teams, have overlooked providing a global font-size setting on the iPhone. I have tried to find appropriate avenues to suggest this feature to them, but not come up with much so far. Perhaps I should join the fora/mailing lists @apple.com, but I doubt that's a highly-effective path to the developers (perhaps the only one for outsiders, though)...

[kjs862]

I rather see them delay it rather then release something that didn't work. I'm really starting to get fed up with this stuff.

[paulshephard]

Some of the suggestions to do with MMS being obsolete are downright ludicrous. Maybe this is the difference between the UK and the US market. In the UK I can safely say that many people I know use MMS on an almost daily basis, not everybody has email on their phone, and sometimes people just want to send a picture straight away. It's a lot simply than emailing because you can guarantee they get it as of that moment, rather than relying on them checking their email later.

But as I said, maybe in the US it isnt all that popular. Just like in the US, the majority use AIM, whereas in the UK, no-one does, its all MSN.

[wizard]

I suppose it's better to be careful than to end up with Mobile Me again, but on the flip side, they do need to make sure they meet their deadlines.

I have to ask why you think making any random deadline is so important? The only people pleased with that sort of management mentality are other managers. Managers apparently lacking in experience and long term vision. It is unfortunate that we in America are having our lunch devoured by Asian economies that take a more mature view of business.

In any event would Apple have the mess it has on it's hands now if they would have simply said this stuff isn't ready? The simple fact is that more companies have failed with rushed products than those that have slipped a delivery date or dropped features. The fundamental reason that Apple was able to survive through many a tough time was a perception of quality. Good quality is not compatible with deadline management.

Dave

[Iria]

or they devoting more resources to fix the (either perceived or real) worldwide 3G reception issues that have been getting a fair bit of press lately?

That's what they should be working on, and there are far too many reports for it to be "not real." It's real. Whether or not only a hardware change can fix it, and all the reports of fixes in software are off the mark, is still to be seen. I can report I have zero bars on 3G with my iPhone while a MOT q9h, right now, sitting an inch from each other, has full bars.

[sonex]

can report I have zero bars on 3G with my iPhone while a MOT q9h, right now, sitting an inch from each other, has full bars.

mm an inch closer and you 2 will be touching

[vandozza]

there are far too many reports for it to be "not real."

i certainly agree with you Iria!
however i put the disclaimer (perceived or real) because whenever i suggest there might actually be a problem, i end up getting flamed :P

[GregA]

Do you guys think Apple will host an event for the iPod in September, and then just announce the release of 2.1, and possibly push services, just to add some more stuff to show off? xD

If the iPod Touch is being upgraded very soon (which I find highly likely), it may be that it requires 2.1. So if 2.1 with push isn't quite ready, better to focus on a system that works and get that out the door.

[bogg]

How do you think this should work? You can't expect to have a continuous connection when you actually disconnect from the network you're connected with.




You guys must have some wacked up type of EDGE/UMTS network... I can switch between 3G and GSM/EDGE without losing calls. Just go out of reach of the 3G coverage and whoops, a crackle in the sound and there we go, back to normal. But over EDGE instead.

Almost seamlessly...Can't figure out why it should be any different for you.

[MattInOz]

Well you have to get push data to the phone somehow.. that requires a data connection. Running push on the iphone keeps the network up 24/7 already - otherwise it couldn't work.. it needs a consistent IP address. It's passive.. which means you can probably reduce the power usage somewhat, but it'll never be a zero drain. The original point being background apps waiting on a port wouldn't add to that one bit.

I'm told that blackberry have some means of signalling their phones directly in the same manner that SMS works but can't find any details of it.. probably proprietary and closely guarded.

I still can't really tell the difference between 2g and 3g for battery on the iphone. Both are around a days battery, give or take. Wifi off adds a little more.. but you want Wifi or 3G on somewhere because the iphone is primarily an internet device (to me at least).

Don't the early blackberries use an SMS to not so avoid having a persistent connection but to keep use of someone eles connection.

I hope Apple is designing Push as a Distributed System, like a Murder of Cyrus.

Your phone company has to keep track of how to connect to your phone.

More so I hope Apple, RIM, MS, google,Cellphone Companies and the other stakeholders let go of self interest in this case and work together a bit. (yes i realise that is a lot of self interested people with no interest in giving up their self interest.)

An Push open source project, so service providers could have servers for their own clients and use the existing device tracking so it needs no additional battery draining IP connection. Application Authors and those service providers could be confident in only having to support one implimentation.

Oh and most of all Businesses could have there own hosts for in house Wifi but still talk to the network as a whole for mobile works.

[Otaviano]

Some of the suggestions to do with MMS being obsolete are downright ludicrous. Maybe this is the difference between the UK and the US market. In the UK I can safely say that many people I know use MMS on an almost daily basis, not everybody has email on their phone, and sometimes people just want to send a picture straight away. It's a lot simply than emailing because you can guarantee they get it as of that moment, rather than relying on them checking their email later.

But as I said, maybe in the US it isnt all that popular. Just like in the US, the majority use AIM, whereas in the UK, no-one does, its all MSN.

I think you need to show a bit of forward thinking. The MMS format is not all that important, if it was it would have eaten into iPhone sales. Heck it's not even standardized and there is a wide difference between carriers on how it's handled. I need to log into a website to receive my MMS, and for the record I've never received anything that was worth the hassle.

I think every cell manufacturer in the planet is banking on serious smart phone adoption in the coming two years. So for a company like Apple to cut out a mediocre feature realizing that it can be handled better in a different manner was actually to be expected. I bet they even wanted to remove SMS in favor of an iChat type of alternative, however that would have cut into sales.

Isn't there an App Store solution for all the MMS faithful? The jialbraking community had one a long time ago.

[Juo100]

The push notification on my iPhone (for email) is constantly going, takes a software reboot to fix it. Is this normal?

I can see why they need more time :rolleyes: however ill remain quietly optimistic that this will be out by the end of September

[santelia]

This is such a fanboy response and someone who has clearly drunk the "kool-aid." Don't you realize that email is the anachronistic method of communication. We come from snailmail, email, then texting (MMS is just an extension.) You see, texting is the only true form of instant push communication. Nothing to configure because it is what it is. With push email things have to be configured for push - why mobileme took such a hit. Apple doesn't want to have mms because they want more money for mobileme. You see, the only way to get pictures from someone on an iphone is through email. And Apple will certainly sell you that service through mobileme which now has push capabilities that is to suppose to mimic MMS.

All this talk about how Apple is making the best choice for not including MMS and it's better for the public is pure BS. Remember Apple is in it for the money not to make your life easier (well they only use that if it benefits them.)
Never considered anyone's right to have different opinion from yours? Remember, what you write is what you show to be. End of the story.

[entwife]

This is the two button mouse issue all over. Apple wants to kill this terribly exploitative "service" by moving all image transfers to email. They don't care that every other phone out there uses mms. They are drawing a line in the sand. Whether it is worth it, I don't know (see two-button mouse).

totally, people drive me nuts with all the "mms is dead" rubbish, put it this way, on my n95 i could send mms with multiple pictures, video and i could add sound and voice overs, on my iPhone i can send one picture, one.

If that is not a step backwards i dont know what is.

Dont get me wrong i love my iPhone and due to it ive never emailed so much in my life BUT the lack of mms is (in the UK anyway) a huge over sight.

Also in the UK mms are generally included in text allowances so you dont normally pay extra for them (Orange is only exception that comes to mind)


The iPhone is amazing, it is untouchable in certain ways, but then fails hugely in others (bluetooth, copy paste etc) it is not perfect by a long way, the sooner people realise this the better.

And just because i have acknowledged faults doesnt mean i dont love the phone.

[skinnylegs]

Isn't there an App Store solution for all the MMS faithful?No.
need to log into a website to receive my MMS, and for the record I've never received anything that was worth the hassle.That's the point. With MMS you don't need to log onto a website.

[freeny]

Push is such a battery hog. I am much happier with fetch.

I do like the fact that you have a choice...

[acaullier]

Anybody knows when we can expect this 2.1 to be available to users ?
The lagging and crashes are a real pain :(

[Ori]

Yeah, it's dead. Just like cars that run on gasoline are dead. Except, oh wait, what's that, a hundred million obsolete cars that are still running on gasoline.

It's not dead when everyone still uses it. As it stands, I know and/or work with several thousand people who all use MMS regularly, and about 6 iPhone users who are never in the loop. Oh, but we're so advanced.:rolleyes:

Agreed. MMS is not dead. I got the ex wife and iphone so we can send images to each other and we share a web gallery to share prictures of our son.
Saying that, I have taken pictures and was desperate to send them to friends, but couldn't because they don't have email on their phone and would only receive it after the weekend when they get to work! I hate receiving MMS as I have to log in to that o2 web client in order to view it.

Sad really, but we need bug fixes as a top priority.

[stiang]

The big problem with lack of MMS is that I don’t even know that someone has sent me an MMS until the delivery times out, typically after three days. Only then do I get an SMS telling me to log on to a web site to see the MMS. At least this is the case with my provider - Telenor in Norway.

If there is a solution to this, I’d really like to know. I’m getting tired of explaining why I haven’t responded to messages people have sent me several days earlier.

[wizard]

I wish it were as simple as that, but for most of us it isn't.

The Email to MMS work around you mention is only available in the USA. In the UK and rest of Europe we don't have that work around.

It is embarrassing when I have to admit to friends and colleagues, sorry my phone isn't as advanced as yours for photo sharing, OK it kicks their asses on most other fronts :), but none the less MMS is an unnecessary ommission by Apple.

As to the 'pulling' of 'push' in this beta, not too sure why this is an issue really as 'Push notification' services for third party apps isn't due until sometime in September (likely at the iPod keynote) anyway.

Kind regards

Seriously how many up skirt pics can you guys in Europe send before you get tire of it? All MMS is is a way to explot an immature minds need for instant gratification.

As to having to explain things to your friends develop a little backbone and tell them to have a good time with a flying donut. I don't try to mimic the behaviour of friends and niethbors nor do I expect them to do everything I do. You need to work on the idea that your are an individual.

Frankly I never go into Texting either so I left that capability off my AT&T contract also. Once you allow your mind to switch to the new way of doing things what IPhone offers up can be seen as a big advantage. If nothing else you save a lot of dough.

I'm sitting here thinking about your message and what tweaked to respond. I guess in a nut shell I'm wondering why Europeans have this need to conform to whatever their local circle of friends seem appear? So maybe my response really isn't about Apple products at all but more a question of why Europeans have this need for conformity.


Dave

[whooleytoo]

totally, people drive me nuts with all the "mms is dead" rubbish, put it this way, on my n95 i could send mms with multiple pictures, video and i could add sound and voice overs, on my iPhone i can send one picture, one.

If that is not a step backwards i dont know what is.

One thing about Apple (for better or worse) they've never been afraid to drop a standard/protocol if they felt they could do better.

Personally I've no problems if Apple have decided to ignore MMS, it's too expensive and I've found it to be unreliable too - (though YMMV).

The only problem is, they've left MMS out without providing an adequate alternative yet. I'm sure the iPhone OS will be constantly tweaked and improved over time, but as yet the SMS and "MMS-alternative" side are lacking.

[thirdeyeopen666]

Seriously how many up skirt pics can you guys in Europe send before you get tire of it? All MMS is is a way to explot an immature minds need for instant gratification.

As to having to explain things to your friends develop a little backbone and tell them to have a good time with a flying donut. I don't try to mimic the behaviour of friends and niethbors nor do I expect them to do everything I do. You need to work on the idea that your are an individual.

Frankly I never go into Texting either so I left that capability off my AT&T contract also. Once you allow your mind to switch to the new way of doing things what IPhone offers up can be seen as a big advantage. If nothing else you save a lot of dough.

I'm sitting here thinking about your message and what tweaked to respond. I guess in a nut shell I'm wondering why Europeans have this need to conform to whatever their local circle of friends seem appear? So maybe my response really isn't about Apple products at all but more a question of why Europeans have this need for conformity.


Dave

This is one of the most ignorant and moronic posts I've ever read... anywhere. I sincerely hope you're not American, as you bring shame to the word. Jesus. Please go away and never post again.

[Antares]

Maybe Apple just decided to push that feature to a later date......

Anywhoo, they should focus on priorities, first. Push Notification is not a priority.

[Trajectory]

Seriously how many up skirt pics can you guys in Europe send before you get tire of it? I guess in a nut shell I'm wondering why Europeans have this need to conform to whatever their local circle of friends seem appear?

Whoa. Travel much? I think not.

[Quincy9219]

Sheesh, can we stop with all the bad push puns. It's really getting old.

[schubes]

Seriously how many up skirt pics can you guys in Europe send before you get tire of it? All MMS is is a way to explot an immature minds need for instant gratification.

As to having to explain things to your friends develop a little backbone and tell them to have a good time with a flying donut. I don't try to mimic the behaviour of friends and niethbors nor do I expect them to do everything I do. You need to work on the idea that your are an individual.

Frankly I never go into Texting either so I left that capability off my AT&T contract also. Once you allow your mind to switch to the new way of doing things what IPhone offers up can be seen as a big advantage. If nothing else you save a lot of dough.

I'm sitting here thinking about your message and what tweaked to respond. I guess in a nut shell I'm wondering why Europeans have this need to conform to whatever their local circle of friends seem appear? So maybe my response really isn't about Apple products at all but more a question of why Europeans have this need for conformity.


Dave

Wow wtf

[Samuel88]

Seriously how many up skirt pics can you guys in Europe send before you get tire of it? All MMS is is a way to explot an immature minds need for instant gratification.

As to having to explain things to your friends develop a little backbone and tell them to have a good time with a flying donut. I don't try to mimic the behaviour of friends and niethbors nor do I expect them to do everything I do. You need to work on the idea that your are an individual.

Frankly I never go into Texting either so I left that capability off my AT&T contract also. Once you allow your mind to switch to the new way of doing things what IPhone offers up can be seen as a big advantage. If nothing else you save a lot of dough.

I'm sitting here thinking about your message and what tweaked to respond. I guess in a nut shell I'm wondering why Europeans have this need to conform to whatever their local circle of friends seem appear? So maybe my response really isn't about Apple products at all but more a question of why Europeans have this need for conformity.


Dave

http://www.mooncostumes.com/image/8186

[gcmexico]

it's here..downloading right now!!:D

[Marky_Mark]

Seriously how many up skirt pics can you guys in Europe send before you get tire of it? All MMS is is a way to explot an immature minds need for instant gratification.

As to having to explain things to your friends develop a little backbone and tell them to have a good time with a flying donut. I don't try to mimic the behaviour of friends and niethbors nor do I expect them to do everything I do. You need to work on the idea that your are an individual.

Frankly I never go into Texting either so I left that capability off my AT&T contract also. Once you allow your mind to switch to the new way of doing things what IPhone offers up can be seen as a big advantage. If nothing else you save a lot of dough.

I'm sitting here thinking about your message and what tweaked to respond. I guess in a nut shell I'm wondering why Europeans have this need to conform to whatever their local circle of friends seem appear? So maybe my response really isn't about Apple products at all but more a question of why Europeans have this need for conformity.


Dave

Wtf are you on?? You idiot

[entwife]

[QUOTE=whooleytoo;6062968]One thing about Apple (for better or worse) they've never been afraid to drop a standard/protocol if they felt they could do better.

Personally I've no problems if Apple have decided to ignore MMS, it's too expensive and I've found it to be unreliable too - (though YMMV).

The only problem is, they've left MMS out without providing an adequate alternative yet. I'm sure the iPhone OS will be constantly tweaked and improved over time, but as yet the SMS and "MMS-alternative" side are lacking.[/QUOTE\]

I have always found mms service to be spot on with tmobile and orange, almost instant delivery and tmobile included mms in flext allowance so it never cost extra, but obviously service will differ with different providers and countries.

it just really annoys me as mms is such a good feature, its more than just sending a picture, i used to make mini presentations on n95 etc and being able to send a video with voice overs etc was a brilliant way of sharing moments more with a more personal touch.

Also i do find it a bit embarrasing when people try to send me a picture/video and i cant recieve it and have to explane my 'jesus phone' doesnt support them.

I would pay for an app i guess.

[entwife]

Seriously how many up skirt pics can you guys in Europe send before you get tire of it? All MMS is is a way to explot an immature minds need for instant gratification.

As to having to explain things to your friends develop a little backbone and tell them to have a good time with a flying donut. I don't try to mimic the behaviour of friends and niethbors nor do I expect them to do everything I do. You need to work on the idea that your are an individual.

Frankly I never go into Texting either so I left that capability off my AT&T contract also. Once you allow your mind to switch to the new way of doing things what IPhone offers up can be seen as a big advantage. If nothing else you save a lot of dough.

I'm sitting here thinking about your message and what tweaked to respond. I guess in a nut shell I'm wondering why Europeans have this need to conform to whatever their local circle of friends seem appear? So maybe my response really isn't about Apple products at all but more a question of why Europeans have this need for conformity.


Dave

What an appauling message, hugely ignorrant.

[whooleytoo]

I have always found mms service to be spot on with tmobile and orange, almost instant delivery and tmobile included mms in flext allowance so it never cost extra, but obviously service will differ with different providers and countries.

it just really annoys me as mms is such a good feature, its more than just sending a picture, i used to make mini presentations on n95 etc and being able to send a video with voice overs etc was a brilliant way of sharing moments more with a more personal touch.

Also i do find it a bit embarrasing when people try to send me a picture/video and i cant recieve it and have to explane my 'jesus phone' doesnt support them.

I would pay for an app i guess.

I guess it varies from place to place. I know SMS took off immediately here, but MMS doesn't seem to. The only MMS I ever receive are spam from my network, and even those are rare.

Personally, I've no problem with MMS biting the dust as I expect Apple to replace it with a free alternative - whether that via an improved email client or otherwise.

I do wish Apple had a Euro development centre though - their focus is (unsurprisingly) very US-centric. Had they a Euro influence, they would have launched the iPhone with better SMS functionality (& possibly MMS) given the dominance of txting over calls here.

[DaZe3]

I would like all the bugs fixed too but i would also like to be always connected to aim... i need PNS

[GregA]

I do wish Apple had a Euro development centre though - their focus is (unsurprisingly) very US-centric.

I think they grossly underestimate the value that would have. While I think Apple has a good future, I would predict a much better one with something like this, and better international focus in general.

[macwall]

I think they grossly underestimate the value that would have. While I think Apple has a good future, I would predict a much better one with something like this, and better international focus in general.


i heard it's 5 years outlay