Dell to Try to Take on Apple's Online Music Dominance?

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

BusinessWeek reports (http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_34/b4097022701166.htm?campaign_id=rss_daily) on an upcoming plan from Dell to try to topple Apple's dominance in digital downloads.

The threat is being spearheaded by a former Apple executive Tim Bucher who left Apple on bad terms: According to a lawsuit later filed by Bucher, Jobs said: "People think you are sometimes manic-depressive.... I think I'm going to have to ask you to leave the company." Bucher was stunned: He'd been promoted only a few months earlier. Bucher left Apple but soon sued for wrongful termination. He says the charges of mental illness are "completely false."Bucher has since taken a job with Dell and is leading a 120 person team to counter Apple's current dominance in online music and movie distribution.

Dell is reportedly working on standardizing a system across computers, mobile phones and online music sites to provide a universal system for digital distribution. Central to Dell's plan is software acquired a year ago when it bought Zing, the company Bucher founded after leaving Apple. The software handles behind-the-scenes translations so that content can be "zinged" between computers and other compatible devices. Dell hopes to announce the Zing software as a feature on small, cheap laptops expected in September and to have the software installed on all of its consumer PCs by the end of the year. Details remain sketchy but some analysts are understandably skeptical about Dell's chances. Dell is expected to unveil details of their plan in September.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/08/18/dell-to-try-to-take-on-apples-online-music-dominance/)

[Andronicus]

Dell to Try to Take on Apple's Online Music Dominance?

Bring it on.

[(L)]

Hmm...

Doesn't sound like cheery news, but probably doesn't go anywhere.

[iTeen]

Dell could never be a threat to Apple's music industry...and the whole "revenge" thing is really dumb.

[Xavier]

Good luck Dell. Your going to need it.

[severe]

It's clear Tim has an issue with manic-depression. It's just sad. :(






:)

[a1016neo]

It looks like this Dell Mp3 Player is backed by some pretty smart minds... Though I think it will FAIL.... Nothing has really put a dent in Apple's market share.... And their have been some attempts that haven't gone so well... A.K.A. The Zune

[nickspohn]

This should come easy seeing Michael Dell wants Apple to hand out all it's stock back out to share holders because Apple is failing.

[Chupa Chupa]

I think we've heard this song from Dell before.

http://www.chaosmint.com/macintosh/moxiepix/b1_44.jpg

[Trajectory]

It'll all be run from an office in India.

[Zwhaler]

I'm actually curious as to what their plan is... since amazingly enough even though Apple makes Macs their software (iTunes) is on the majority of PCs!

[a1016neo]

Dell could never be a threat to Apple's music industry...and the whole "revenge" thing is really dumb.


I agree.... It's like saying Apple will take over Dell and HP in PC sells! (Seems reasonable with Apple's 73% market share)

[pcorajr]

"People think you are sometimes manic-depressive.... I think I'm going to have to ask you to leave the company."

Lol Funny, i could so see Steve saying that.

[bug67]

competition is a good thing but, really, I only see it as everybody else just playing catch up.

[dongmin]

one word:


WHY?

[notjustjay]

Better get my umbrella, so I can protect myself from all the zings and squirts.

[Flobber88]

I'm usually all for these types of things (MS Mojave Experiment) but this sounds just plain stupid.

[Wharrgarbl]

Hmm... Napster, Rhapsody, PlaysForSure, Zune. Good luck to you and your merry band of 120 adventurers; I hope your quest is successful.

At least you have the cachet of the Dell brand on your side. And I have found your 121st employee:

http://www.rockass.com/blog/images/dudebong2.jpg

From a serious perspective, what is it about these people that prevents them ALL from understanding that the music downloads and superior software are just loss leaders that help sell HARDWARE?

Duuude, take a memo:

No compelling hardware = permafail, guaranteed

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/w4lkerhofo/allaboard.jpg

[punkybadhip]

I'd be happy if they could list artists correctly, I know Apple can't, often doubling the same artist and having their recordings split due to a letter capitalisation. :mad:

[lazyrighteye]

Bucher.
Butcher.
Either way...

[srobert]

Dell, you're getting a Dude.

[ZacUSNYR]

I've always seen Dell as a reseller and not an innovator.

People are happy with iTunes and apple and are not looking for an alternative.

[Full of Win]

[QUOTE=Chupa Chupa;6063474]I think we've heard this song from Dell before.

http://www.chaosmint.com/macintosh/moxiepix/b1_44.jpg

The Dell MP3 player was pretty good. The aluminum case was pretty nice for its day.

[applefan69]

this is inta-fail simply because dell seems to have the wrong mindset

See a famous line by steve jobs "For apple to succeed, microsoft DOES NOT have to fail"

Once apple adopted that mindset, notice how much smoother things started to go?

See right now dell is thinking they need to take down apple... and why?? almost for pety revenge, honestly the guy who came up with this idea must be crazy... once again steve proves his ability to pick out bad employees.

Its simply not gonna happen, and dell is stupid for trying

[/dev/toaster]

Don't get me wrong, I want some heathy good competition ... But, I have no confidence it will be Dell that will pull it off.

[interlard]

Aside from the music thing, which sounds like it has a loooong way to go before it would take off...

It sounds extremely sketchy to fire someone for being ill--mentally or otherwise. In most states that would be wrongful termination, even those with at-will employment. If the guy simply had a bad attitude, that's a different thing.

[swingerofbirch]

I don't understand the reporting. He says the charges of mental illness are false. Even if they were true, wouldn't it be illegal to fire on the basis of the disability?

I know Jobs is an ******* (yes I like Apple a lot, but think he's an *******), but I don't think even he would have gotten away with breaking the law in such a blatant way. Whether or not the Dell thing takes off, I don't so much care about. But I do care about people being fired over disabilities.

Edit: didn't realize the word I used was considered that bad of one, umm Steve Jobs is a poopy-head. Imagine that in the asterisks.

[SPQR]

Warning, Political Correctness Rant ahead, please avert your eyes:

Why use "120 person" instead of "120 man"? If you are so frightened of political correctness, consider Spanish with its masculine, feminine and neuter nouns. Or is it that political correctness doesn't allow the criticism of other languages. Actually isnt the use of perSON demeaning to daughters? 120 perdaughters? How about call 120 human beings, men as represented by men and woMEN, unless you want to rename women wopersons, or probably safer to call them wodaughters.

Merry Christmas (or "Happy Holidays" to those worried about upsetting non-christians.)

[theheadguy]

^^ SPQR, nobody is whining. But you can take yours to a more appropriate thread.

People are happy with iTunes and apple and are not looking for an alternative.
Actually many people are. Amazon is not being seen as a failure but rather a rising star for digital music downloads. Competition is great and wonderful, no matter what ridiculous form it may come in. People here should be happy about it, not prancing around with pompous attitudes. :apple:

[BRLawyer]

Bring it on.

Dell, while you're at it, you may revive also that wonderful piece of crap called Ditty...please do! We all look forward to seeing you drown once and for all in a pool of dirty mud.

DELL IS DEAD.

[BoyBach]

I, for one, welcome our new digital download overlords.

[yorkshire]

While I don't think Dell will suceed, I believe any competition can only be good news for us consumers.

[Wharrgarbl]

Its simply not gonna happen, and dell is stupid for tryingIt's actually kind of impressive, in a way: it must have taken MAD SKILLZ and cantaloupe cojones to convince the Dell board to go down the PlaysForSure/Zune/Napster/et. al path and believe they can win.

I mean is this guy all cock and balls or what?

The thing is that iTunes succeeded because it filled an otherwise unaddressed need in the marketplace: a legal, reliable, computer-based way to get music on your iPod.

That need doesn't exist anymore. Nobody owns an MP3 player or music phone but is still craving a legal downloading alternative. Nobody is delaying their purchase of a Dell MP3 player because they wouldn't know where to get music for it. They'd just buy an iPod if that was the case.

Good luck getting 120 people to help you grind your axe. Just because you WORKED at Apple, it doesn't mean you ARE Apple. And it doesn't mean you can turn another company into Apple.

Apple isn't like AIDS: you can't just "get it" and then spend the rest of your life spreading it around.

[srobert]

Apple isn't like AIDS: you can't just "get it" and then spend the rest of your life spreading it around.

That sir should be your signature. Instant classic.

[riversky]

I am all for this!

It will keep Apple on its toes and force them to become even more innovative which will lead to an even better iTunes experience.

[Small White Car]

I read the interview with this guy, and he raises good points about iTunes' shortcomings. He really knows what the problems are.

That being said, he's working on a system that CAN'T, by its very design, offer solutions to those problems!

I'll make this very long idea into a simple statement: The problems with iTunes they want to solve have already been solved perfectly by Amazon. And it's very clear that's not what Dell wants to do.

So you have a smart guy who "gets it" but is working for a company that doesn't want the solution to the problem. They want something else. Something with just as many problems as iTunes, just different ones.

It will be interesting to see how long he lasts.

[crees!]

"Dude, where's my Dell? I have a dope track to zing to you."

[RaZaK]

Is that the name of the medication he's taking that deluded him into believing he can take on iTunes? :D

Seriously though, unless he comes up with something truly revolutionary, he'll have to go the Amazon route and price tracks and albums lower while enabling the Dell solution to auto-import into iTunes.

:apple: FTW

[rockstarjoe]

Competition is always a good thing... but I can't see Dell being a very strong competitor. :o

[NightGeometry]

I really don't see how this could be a negative. No, not being argumentative, I just don't. It's competition, and I think that in this case competition would be good.

If they go the WMA route, then pah, doesn't affect me. if they get some new whizz bang DRM that doesn't work on my iPod, pah again. If they have an MP3 / AAC shop (that can be used outside of the USA), then I'm all for it. See who has the bigger range of artists, hopefully selling for prices that are less than a CD would cost - this seems to be a bit of a failing with iTunes. I can often just order the CD from Amazon cheaper, that is a new CD, rather than second hand.

If they aren't as good as iTunes they'll fail. If they areas good as or better then they'll at worse complement iTunes. As a (music) customer I do well out of it.

So - what is the downside here? Is there one?

[morespce54]

LOL... Too late my friend! Mohaaaaaaa!!!!!!!

The only chance they have is by lowering the prices... quite a lot...

[carve]

When will Dell learn that they aren't "hip" and "cool"?

[danielchow]

It's clear Tim has an issue with manic-depression. It's just sad. :(






:)


it is indeed unfortunate if this was indeed true. i'd never wish such a condition on anyone. it's a tough battle and it could happen to anyone. nevertheless, whether what some people have said of Mr. Bucher, or what he said of Apple was true or not, it's unfair for anyone of us to draw any conclusion because we don't know the history and the current facts. so it's quite pointless.

anyway, if a business was setup to compete primarily on the grounds of revenge, then it's doomed to failure because most of your business decisions maybe emotionally influenced. but we don't know this for sure. we shall see what will happen with this business venture. frankly, i really doubt it'd succeed. at least "zing" is not as highly unflattering as "squirt" for Zune. nevertheless, i think they're both asinine marketing verbs.

[mixel]

Why use "120 person" instead of "120 man"? If you are so frightened of political correctness, consider Spanish with its masculine, feminine and neuter nouns.
I know it was just a rant, but.. Reading into it a bit too much? it's much better to use "person" because they're definitely people. Any number of them might not be men. It's likely nothing to do with political correctness and more to do with, oh, I don't know.. Accuracy?

[RaZaK]

Warning, Political Correctness Rant ahead, please avert your eyes:

Why use "120 person" instead of "120 man"? If you are so frightened of political correctness, consider Spanish with its masculine, feminine and neuter nouns. Or is it that political correctness doesn't allow the criticism of other languages. Actually isnt the use of perSON demeaning to daughters? 120 perdaughters? How about call 120 human beings, men as represented by men and woMEN, unless you want to rename women wopersons, or probably safer to call them wodaughters.

Merry Christmas (or "Happy Holidays" to those worried about upsetting non-christians.)

I think this comment wins the 2008 WTF Award for Most Random Comment. I keed, I keed, but not really. lol :D

[slapppy]

Bring it on.

They already did.....and FAILED! :p

[FJ218700]

[calls broker, dumps Dell stock]sounds like a good business avenue for Dell to pursue, there's tons of room for competition. Hold on to your Dell shares everyone.[/suckers]

[kas23]

one word:


WHY?

My biggest question is WHY does everyone automatically think it is a bad thing when someone besides Apple tries to start a service or offer a product that Apple has already been doing? (see Google Android thread).

I see this as a great thing. Sure, it may suck and it may fail, but competition usually leads to better products and cheaper prices. I wouldn't mind buy movies from iTunes that are a dollar cheaper or that don't disapear in a 24 hours. I say bring it.

[morespce54]

I really don't see how this could be a negative. No, not being argumentative, I just don't. It's competition, and I think that in this case competition would be good.

If they go the WMA route, then pah, doesn't affect me. if they get some new whizz bang DRM that doesn't work on my iPod, pah again. If they have an MP3 / AAC shop (that can be used outside of the USA), then I'm all for it. See who has the bigger range of artists, hopefully selling for prices that are less than a CD would cost - this seems to be a bit of a failing with iTunes. I can often just order the CD from Amazon cheaper, that is a new CD, rather than second hand.

If they aren't as good as iTunes they'll fail. If they areas good as or better then they'll at worse complement iTunes. As a (music) customer I do well out of it.

So - what is the downside here? Is there one?

Well, more competition is good, generally...
The downside I see is scattered catalogs across different services.
I like to get my stack at the same place. I really don't want to have to look in iTunes for new releases of Artist A and have to look at ZuneStore or DellStore or WhateverStore to get the previous albums of that same artist... grrrrr...

[macaron1]

Out of curiosity, googled Zing and the first match, predictably Zing.com, turned out to be a badware site, quarantined by Google (http://www.google.com/interstitial?url=http://www.zing.com/).

Turns out the actual Zing site is not that but Zing.net (http://zing.net).

Nevertheless, Dell should do something about that first hit if they intend to keep the branding. :)

"Zing." Rivals "me" in appeal!

[andiwm2003]

if they do it in a userfriendly way and bundle the service with mp3 players, free music and dell notebooks it could be a real threat to apple.


this could cost apple some market share. the zune failed because there was no reason to choose a zune over an ipod.
but dell sells 30% of all computers and if my dell notebook comes with a dell mp3 player and some free music in a bundle why would i buy an ipod?

[globalhemp]

Zing & Zune...

How INNOVATIVE of each Dell and Microsoft!

I recall watching a video of Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer and he was naming his list of innovative companies ... and at the end of the list he state's something along the lines of, "...well, I suppose you could even include Apple in there are well."

Geez, I bet the Zune will have a mobile phone version in a year or two and it will be the most innovative thing to happen ever! Heck, it may even come in an array of fashionable colors such as snot green, turd brown, harvest gold, or orange. Heck, rotary dialing may even be replaced with touch tone, but in order to ship on-time, that feature may have to wait!

[corinhorn]

I agree that competition is good, but why say it repeatedly? We all know this. Lately, it honestly seems like saying "Competition is good" is a politically correct way of saying "The competition is going to suck beyond measure."

How much iTunes "competition" has zinged up over the last few years? Has it really done anything to improve iTunes or the iTunes Store prices and services?

I wish Dell all the luck in the world, but they should really stick with what they do best or fill a market need that hasn't been resolved yet.

[Small White Car]

My biggest question is WHY does everyone automatically think it is a bad thing when someone besides Apple tries to start a service or offer a product that Apple has already been doing? (see Google Android thread).

I see this as a great thing.

This is NOT the same thing as Android. That's good competition to the iPhone.

Likewise, Amazon selling MP3s is good competition to iTunes. Microsoft selling Zunes is good competition to the iPod (well, they would be if they were competitive, but you get my point).

This Dell service, however, is going to HAVE to be a tightly-closed DRM-drentched system that CALLs itself 'open' and 'full of choices' when really it's anything but. It will have to be, based on the way they're describing it.

I'd love for Dell to create a nice, open alternative to iTunes. That's what they SAY they want to do. But once you read between the lines, it becomes quite clear that it will be the opposite: Something even tighter than iTunes that calls itself "free and full of choice" simply because it's not iTunes.

THAT, we don't need more of.

[macaron1]

Can't think of any (good) brand name that starts with a Z except for Ermenegildo Zegna (http://zegna.com).

But it could have been worse. Say, Zingr, the web two-dot-oh of cross-platform digital music social stuff.

[Kilamite]

Pfff.

One thing that makes Apple so powerful is they have such a good eye for beauty. Every product and the software has to be beautiful. Making a jukebox beautiful isn't easy, and Apple really have mastered this with Cover Flow and the OS X Finder style interface.

Dell, along with Creative just have no clue when it comes to beauty and class. Sony are the only people who have come close to Apple in regards to producing a beautiful MP3 player, however their software just lets them down.

iPod + iTunes is just something that has become so big, it really can't be beaten.

[notjustjay]

There already is a nice, open, industry-supported music standard.

It's called mp3.

And iTunes even supports it! :eek:

[ariza910]

Dells purchase of Zing makes it sound like they are still stuck thinking just about music.

Dell will have to figure out how to deliver not just Music but TV, Movies, Podcast, Audiobooks and Apps BETTER than Apple for them to have any chance of competing.

Should be interesting - all I hope is that Dell doesn't create another DRM 'standard' thats incompatible with non-Zing players/software.

Edit: After looking at their site it looks like Zing is more into online streaming to DAPs? Does anyone know what they really do?

[gcmexico]

dell is a piece of crap...Apple will run them over!

[jellomizer]

Dell could never be a threat to Apple's music industry...and the whole "revenge" thing is really dumb.

Um in this industry never use the term never. It is Unlikely that Dell can be a threat to Apples music industry. Part of the popularity is a coolness factor (and good products and design), but It only takes a few years for something to go from hip and trendy to the norm to old fashion. Sure iTunes with iPods are hot now and have been for quite a while however... things can change it could be a bad designed generation adding the wrong features adding a feature in too late, or not adding an important feature.

[andyr2120]

Dell may have an answer to a problem I face. If they can truly sell you media that will play on your computer, your ipod/mp3 player, your phone (non-iphone in this example), your Linux sub-notebook, car stereo, etc then they might have a unique product. Apple can serve all of those markets, to an extent, and generally quite well BUT only if you buy into their hardware or software. If Dell's files work well across all these platforms no matter who made them (not known for sure, but implicit) then they would become the best online store for many people. Why buy from iTunes if you may not be able to play your new media when and where you want it? That is a big part of Amazon's success in the mp3 market.

There wouldn't be an overnight exodus of customers, but it could force Apple to open up a bit. I hope so.

[bigmc6000]

This reminds me of another situation in which people were 100% sure the market could handle more of something. Yes, that's right, the XFL! Actually, I'd be surprised if Dell even has as much success as the XFL as it did give us awesome names like "He Hate Me" haha

[bigmc6000]

Dell may have an answer to a problem I face. If they can truly sell you media that will play on your computer, your ipod/mp3 player, your phone (non-iphone in this example), your Linux sub-notebook, car stereo, etc then they might have a unique product. Apple can serve all of those markets, to an extent, and generally quite well BUT only if you buy into their hardware or software. If Dell's files work well across all these platforms no matter who made them (not known for sure, but implicit) then they would become the best online store for many people. Why buy from iTunes if you may not be able to play your new media when and where you want it? That is a big part of Amazon's success in the mp3 market.

There wouldn't be an overnight exodus of customers, but it could force Apple to open up a bit. I hope so.

Amazon has had success but as the numbers will point out it's not stealing much, if anything, from iTunes. It's like the Zune - it stole customers from Samsung, Creative, etc. Amazon has done well, no doubt, but iTunes market share %'s are just as high as they were before Amazon and I really don't see that changing.

[Dmac77]

It's like Michael Dell enjoys getting bitch slapped by Apple. Ooh that's some kinky stuff Michael!:D

Don

[morespce54]

if they do it in a userfriendly way and bundle the service with mp3 players, free music and dell notebooks it could be a real threat to apple.


this could cost apple some market share. the zune failed because there was no reason to choose a zune over an ipod.
but dell sells 30% of all computers and if my dell notebook comes with a dell mp3 player and some free music in a bundle why would i buy an ipod?

True but I think Apple are 2 steps ahead. They have a very good (and nice) player AND a friendly, well-known and rich Music store.

I buy a lot of my music from the iTMS, not because it's Apple but because I can find most of what I'm looking for in a convenient way.

I, for one, buy a computer because it suit my computer needs. I buy a mp3 player because it suit my needs for music (and I buy a phone for... well, you get it). They don't need to be from the same company, but it's a major bonus if they can get along well.

So if I had a Dell, I would still be using an iPod and iTMS.

[ibjoshua]

I think John Gruber of Daring Fireball (http://daringfireball.net/) puts it best:
How can he lose with Rob Enderle on his side?
ibjoshua

[RaZaK]

I've been reading it, and I've come across at least one vomit-inducing quote that Dell Marketeers spoon-fed to Robert Enderle, "Apple wants to lock you in...Dell wants to lock you in to choice." Ugh!

Riiiiight, maybe we'll believe this after we take some of those Zing pills that TB is obviously taking to treat his Manic-Depression.

And I'm sure we're all going to shell out the necessary money to get new Cell phones, car stereos, Satellite receivers, etc. that will be Zing-compliant.

For all the would-be TB defenders...No, I don't have all the Zing specs. However, this kind of service will only succeed if one of the following happens...

1. Customers by all new HW that is Zing-compliant
2. Wait for Internet-browsing car stereos to pick up steam and distribute all this content via the Web.
3. (Most likely) Dell creates a magical FM-Transmitter\Base Station\Portable Web Server Combo Device that you carry around with you to stream to your devices.

Obviously, Dell FTW. :rolleyes:

Uncle Stevie was right to get rid of this guy. :D

[RaZaK]

It's like Michael Dell enjoys getting bitch slapped by Apple. Ooh that's some kinky stuff Michael!:D

Don

Winner of the Best Comment Award for this thread. lol :D

[Loge]

many consumers are frustrated because the iPod works only with iTunes, at a time when there are many ways to get digital content.

Article loses all credibility with statement like this.

[CWallace]

This Dell service, however, is going to HAVE to be a tightly-closed DRM-drentched system that CALLs itself 'open' and 'full of choices' when really it's anything but. It will have to be, based on the way they're describing it.

Why?

I really do not expect Dell to approach this from a heavily-DRM'd standpoint, especially with all the negative wrap Windows-based DRM systems have been taking the past twelve months as they shut down left and right and leave users with content they can't move, but have to abandon in place and re-purchase.

iTunes started with DRM about the yazoo because music labels were absolutely positive that only one person in the entire world would buy a song from iTunes and then share it with every other person on the planet. They were, of course, wrong, but that was their mindset and it's still somewhat entrenched in them now.

Apple wants songs on iTunes to not have DRM and to be as cheap as possible so people will buy lots of them and need 16GB iPhones, 32GB iPod Touches and 160GB iPod Classics to hold them all. The music studios are starting to let go of their "all consumers are pirates" mentality, but they still want more money for their content then Apple wants to charge because the more expensive the content is, the less you'll have and the less need there is to get the latest, larger capacity iPod to hold it.

I would expect Dell would be more then willing to charge more ($1.49 a song?) and offer only DRM-free content. The labels want more money per sale and if Dell is willing to give it to them, they're going to be more receptive in servicing Dell's store with content.

This would in turn put pressure on Apple to move their entire iTunes music catalog to DRM-free as opposed to the more limited "iTunes Plus" catalog they have now. Also, Dell offering their DRM-free content in MP3 vs. WMA or some other standard that is not as widely adopted would be an even larger sales point.

And while they don't need to be as elegant as the iPod, if they're cheaper, that will help. Zune failed because it launched at identical price points to their iPod equivalents. If the Zune 80GB was $199 (or even $149) vs. $249 for the iPod 80GB, it likely would have fared much better in the marketplace. No, it would likely not have taken a huge dent out of iPods sales (see below), but it would not have been the abject failure it has been so far.

Dell won't be demanding 100%+ margins on their media players like Apple does. They could undercut the iPod significantly on price, plus bundle it with their media player and DRM-free catalog - fully backed by the labels - to offer their own "end to end" solution.

Will it kill iPod/iTunes? I very much doubt it. Many buy the iPod as a fashion statement as much as for it's abilities and that won't change just because Dell has a cheaper offering.

But it could be the first real and lasting competitor to Apple's dominance of legal digital music delivery.

[darthraige]

Yea, good luck with that Dell. PC software is so horrible these days, nothing runs smooth. My family has been getting non stop viruses on PCs. I finally converted them all over to the Mac side. Why? Cause, uhhhh, I've never gotten a virus EVER on a Mac. Virus free for 10 years. Beat that PC! :D

[LaDirection]

OOOooooooh now I'm scarrrrred. Dell will topple Apple, they already killed the iPod with the Dell DJ...

[kwfl]

it is always good to have competitors, although i dont use the music sore.

[Glideslope]

I've been reading it, and I've come across at least one vomit-inducing quote that Dell Marketeers spoon-fed to Robert Enderle, "Apple wants to lock you in...Dell wants to lock you in to choice." Ugh!

Riiiiight, maybe we'll believe this after we take some of those Zing pills that TB is obviously taking to treat his Manic-Depression.

And I'm sure we're all going to shell out the necessary money to get new Cell phones, car stereos, Satellite receivers, etc. that will be Zing-compliant.

For all the would-be TB defenders...No, I don't have all the Zing specs. However, this kind of service will only succeed if one of the following happens...

1. Customers by all new HW that is Zing-compliant
2. Wait for Internet-browsing car stereos to pick up steam and distribute all this content via the Web.
3. (Most likely) Dell creates a magical FM-Transmitter\Base Station\Portable Web Server Combo Device that you carry around with you to stream to your devices.

Obviously, Dell FTW. :rolleyes:

Uncle Stevie was right to get rid of this guy. :D

You have that right. I do disagree with the Bi-Polar diagnosis. While there could be tendencies, IMO, he really fits the pattern of a Narcissistic Personality Disorder, especially the lengths he has gone to to seek "revenge."

Dell is making a hug mistake giving this guy their money.

[JG271]

Dell can't bring anything unique to this particular industry, so they will probably fail.

I can't see too many artists or record labels jumping at the chance to join with Dell over iTunes or Amazon.

[Rot'nApple]

it is indeed unfortunate if this was indeed true. i'd never wish such a condition on anyone. it's a tough battle and it could happen to anyone. nevertheless, whether what some people have said of Mr. Bucher, or what he said of Apple was true or not, it's unfair for anyone of us to draw any conclusion because we don't know the history and the current facts. so it's quite pointless.

anyway, if a business was setup to compete primarily on the grounds of revenge, then it's doomed to failure because most of your business decisions maybe emotionally influenced. but we don't know this for sure. we shall see what will happen with this business venture. frankly, i really doubt it'd succeed. at least "zing" is not as highly unflattering as "squirt" for Zune. nevertheless, i think they're both asinine marketing verbs.

Of course there are two sides to the story.

I guess we will never know, due to confidentiality, of Apple's reasons for letting him go.

But if he was let go because of a perceived mental illness and filed suit, I must of missed it among all the other suits reported on over the past few years. Is the suit still working its way through the courts or did it get settled, thrown out, etc?

Of course I think Dell's Board is delusional if they think they can create a universal service to topple Apple's. They can possibly create a service that will have a small base of users, compared to Apple or Amazon, just like all the other iPod/ITMS killers that have tried and failed to topple Apple but have their own little following.

[sebimeyer]

Dell may stand a chance because the recording industry seems to think Apple is too powerfull (read: more powerfull than them).

That said, I doubt very much that what they have in store (pun intended) come anywhere close to the polished, easy to use stuff that Apple is now known for.

[Dmac77]

Winner of the Best Comment Award for this thread. lol :D

Thank you sir, thank you!

Don

[Trajectory]

Apple was the first to do this successfully, and as a result has great brand recognition and loyalty in the digital music market. So, it's going to be tough for any competitor to make a significant dent, unless Apple fumbles one too many times in the next few years.

It will be fun to watch them try!

[Small White Car]

Why?

I really do not expect Dell to approach this from a heavily-DRM'd standpoint

Well, here's their basic pitch: You can take the music they offer and play it on all sorts of devices.

Well, an MP3 can pretty much do that today. So what's different?

Central to Dell's plan is software acquired a year ago when it bought Zing, the company Bucher founded after leaving Apple. The software handles behind-the-scenes translations so that content can be "zinged" between computers and other compatible devices.

Well, lookie here! Special software that LETS you move the files around. Interesting, isn't it? The obvious "read between the lines" part of this is that without this software you AREN'T allowed to "zing' the files around.

This = DRM

In fact, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't it sure look like "Zinging" means I move the song from the computer to the player. "Move" as in "no longer on my computer." This is what I mean when I say it will likely be worse than iTunes.

[Cleverboy]

Dells purchase of Zing makes it sound like they are still stuck thinking just about music.

Dell will have to figure out how to deliver not just Music but TV, Movies, Podcast, Audiobooks and Apps BETTER than Apple for them to have any chance of competing.

Should be interesting - all I hope is that Dell doesn't create another DRM 'standard' thats incompatible with non-Zing players/software.

Edit: After looking at their site it looks like Zing is more into online streaming to DAPs? Does anyone know what they really do?I've been reading it, and I've come across at least one vomit-inducing quote that Dell Marketeers spoon-fed to Robert Enderle, "Apple wants to lock you in...Dell wants to lock you in to choice." Ugh!
[-SNIP-]
However, this kind of service will only succeed if one of the following happens...

1. Customers by all new HW that is Zing-compliant
2. Wait for Internet-browsing car stereos to pick up steam and distribute all this content via the Web.
3. (Most likely) Dell creates a magical FM-Transmitter\Base Station\Portable Web Server Combo Device that you carry around with you to stream to your devices.
Exactly. Most of the people in this thread just seem to be randomly DUMPING on Dell for little good reason. If you're going to dump on Dell for this service offering, there are PLENTY of GREAT reasons! I just went to their website ( www.zing.net ), and I'm pretty underwelmed. It's the same gooey marketing jargon all over the place with absolutely NO substance. ("CHANGE... blah, blah... VISION... blah, blah... HOT... blah, blah... INTERNET!") I tried really really hard to decipher it, but...
Mountain View and the D4 Conference in Carlsbad, CA — 06.01.06 — ZING, a new consumer technology company, is building an audio and entertainment engine to drive a new generation of always-connected, mobile digital devices. Today, they took the wraps off the company’s identity and unveiled plans to work with leading brands–both online and in consumer electronics–to develop audio and entertainment experiences that give people the benefits of live, always-on digital streams.“With one notable exception, the digital music market is tremendously fragmented, and this fragmentation has confounded music lovers and severely limited market growth and opportunity. There is a lot of room for innovation in this market and plenty of opportunity for other players to participate more successfully in the market, but only if they can deliver a complete, easily adopted, integrated experience. If Apple has taught us anything, it is the value of an end-to-end solution,” said industry analyst Chris Shipley of the Guidewire Group. “The ZING approach is the only solution to fix this problem.”ZING Fully Integrated Experiences

ZING provides the framework for an always-connected, fully integrated audio and personal entertainment experience that spans from the device to services. The ZING solution allows its partners to choose from:

* core content management software and services
* ZAP — the extensible ZING Application Platform
* a rich user interface design
* a hardware reference platform
* a networked service center
It's disturbingly laughable is what this is. Disturbing, because this is the same road attempted by Microsoft, Real, and others. It seems as if the main term missing from Zing's vocabulary is "rights management". Clearly, someone in PR is advising them to steer clear of this word. There was a consortium on attempting to unify the various DRM schemes, but this seems to have fallen apart. Having YET ANOTHER scheme step onto the market is no where NEAR what consumers want. Consumers want content providers to allow content to appear in more venues. I think media channels like YouTube and Hulu are a good start. Both services need to EXPAND their media delivery systems to be more rich. For instance, I believe YouTube will be getting into Podcasts (excellent), and is already bringing itself to 3rd party devices and mobile media players. iTunes already appears (albiet partially) on computers, iPhones, iPod Touches, and Apple TVs. Even Netflix is attempting to become a next generation distribution point, and is already appearing on 3rd party media players.

"Zing" is a joke, if it thinks it will not ONLY acquire media, but somehow do what Microsoft, Netflix, and Real player are failing to do, simply by saying so... and having Dell in its corner. Honestly. What are they smoking. I thought the Mac Rumors article was missing critical information. Come to find out... no... the Business Week article was not worth writing. A link to Zing.net would have sufficed. The "personal" angle to the story was weak and transparent.

~ CB

[macdade]

It's clear Tim has an issue with manic-depression. It's just sad. :(



If your diagnosis of manic-depression is based upon this macrumors report then it is diagnonsense.

Manic-depression, a.k.a. bipolar disorder is more prevalent than many folks think, and many bipolars are productive, socially appropriate and creative. In fact, a large percentage of bipolars are employed and often out-perform their colleagues.

Firing someone for being bipolar is wrong. Firing someone for poor performance is right. I don't know that Jobs fired this gentleman for being bipolar or whether he simply spouted off inappropriately while firing him for legitimate reasons. There's a reasonable burden of proof that this article fails to meet.

peace and happy neurons,
bill

[OrangeCrush]

Steve Jobs likes to joke "Redmond, start your copiers." But really, everytime anything is announced by any computer company it should be "Austin, start your copiers." Problem is, it always takes a year for the latest stuff to make it into Dell boxes because they don't do R&D, have never had an original idea yet, and are nothing more than the original branded white-box PC. Dell's R&D department can't be much more than a bunch of 15-year olds who like to slap systems together with random parts.

Dell is nothing more than a leach on the industry. They let HP, Apple, Microsoft, Toshiba, etc. all do R&D then they do cheap knock-offs and force lower prices, resulting in fewer R&D dollars at other companies which stiffles innovation throughout the industry. Dell has single-handedly slowed the computing industry down by a good 5-years.

Someone, please name me anything original Dell has done.

[nick9191]

I'll bet they handle it in the same way Microsoft handled it. By getting on their hands and knees, accepting whatever the industry told them, to negotiate the music at the lowest possible price. And now Microsoft certified (or whatever it was called) music does not even work on their own music player thanks to good ol' DRM.

Apple actually gave a toss about the customer, and made sure that both the artist and the end user get a very fair deal.

[SPUY767]

I LOL'd.

[mdriftmeyer]

Lol Funny, i could so see Steve saying that.

He wouldn't say that. He'd ask him what the ******* is going on and he's that way when it reaches his desk. He then would watch your performance at the executive level since he would be working directly within Steve's tier.

He wouldn't mock someone's mental capacity that is clearly something which would be a massive lawsuit Apple and Steve couldn't defend.

I knew people at Apple on medications. They were never mocked nor called out in such a callous manner.

[Trajectory]

Someone, please name me anything original Dell has done.

Well, if you knew the history of Dell, you'd know that they had a huge impact on the PC industry in the late 80s and early 90s when their customer service was the best in the industry, and their PCs were well-designed and reliable. I bought about 7 different Dell computers during that time period, and they were all pretty good computers. But times have changed.

I switched to Macs about 10+ years ago when I saw that Dell was catering more and more to the consumer market, and I'm SO glad I did. I prefer Apple's hardware and software over any other I've used over the years.

[winterspan]

It's clear Tim has an issue with manic-depression. It's just sad. :(

:)

If that is true, it's odd that he would 1) be able to have gotten that far in his career without treatment and 2) not have recognized and sought treatment for his illness. Modern medicine does quite well in controlling bi-polar disorder. I guess there are always those people who live in denial out of pride or whatever and don't seek treatment. Sad, really...

[thecartoonguy]

Dell could never be a threat to Apple's music industry...and the whole "revenge" thing is really dumb.

You took the words right out of my mouth

[Wharrgarbl]

I hope that Dell starts building H.264 decoder/encoders into everything it sells. Because without being able to "Zing" HD video around, this won't hold a prayer against Apple.

Every time someone readies a worthy Apple competitor, Apple announces a new move that puts them 2 years ahead of the curve. Like the launch of the Zune coming right before the launch of the iPod touch!

Zing will try to do *something*, but it won't be anywhere near what Apple is about to do with H.264 and HD video everywhere.

It'll be interesting to watch, anyway.

[mklos]

Apple pretty much has the market nailed. They have people going to iTunes for everything they need, music, movies (rented or bought), audiobooks, and now iPhone apps.

So I guess Dell is depending on people to just stop using iTunes (or Amazon for that matter) and start using their service? If people were going to leave iTunes by now, they wouldn't have already done it. They can easily go to Amazon (and some have done so), or some other service. When people are in a paradigm, such as always going to iTunes for music, movies, audiobooks, and now iPhone apps, they will most likely always do this until something else spectacular comes out. So Dell will have to do something pretty earth shattering to get people to go away from iTunes. Just releasing a store, even with all non-drm songs won't make people automatically skip iTunes for a Dell music store.

[ivladster]

I hope this guys know that Apple will sue him for telling Apple's Trade secrets and practices to Hell...I mean Dell.


Good luck buddy

[CWallace]

Well, here's their basic pitch: You can take the music they offer and play it on all sorts of devices.

Well, an MP3 can pretty much do that today. So what's different?

With iTunes you can play a music file on multiple computers, an iPod, an iPhone, an :apple:tv, and stream it to a stereo via an Airport Express and AirTunes. It is an integrated, end-to-end solution.

Perhaps Dell wants to offer that level of integration / solution? You store the music on your Windows Media Home Server. You share it with your Windows (and Windows Media) PCs, X-Boxes, Windows Media Center extenders, and "DellPods" all through a single, common library interface like iTunes does.

Perhaps Dell develops their own WiFi streaming system ala AirTunes that not only works with a stereo connected to a router, but perhaps your "DellPod" as well?

I believe it has been said Apple is working on offering this with the iPod/iPhone so you can access your entire music library without having to pre-load your entire music library.

[OrangeCrush]

Well, if you knew the history of Dell, you'd know that they had a huge impact on the PC industry in the late 80s and early 90s when their customer service was the best in the industry, and their PCs were well-designed and reliable. I bought about 7 different Dell computers during that time period, and they were all pretty good computers. But times have changed.

I switched to Macs about 10+ years ago when I saw that Dell was catering more and more to the consumer market, and I'm SO glad I did. I prefer Apple's hardware and software over any other I've used over the years.


I won't dispute that Dell set up a great supply chain model with everything from ordering, to inventory management, to delivery being well designed. And before they sent customer service to India, they were respected there. However, Dell took the supply chain model from Toyota and used it to deliver computers. It was a fantastic success and that can't be argued; but not original. Actually, I'm glad to see Dell trying to innovate, I just don't think they have the background, or the fortitude, to be successful in trying to do something new, different, or better than anyone else. They've always been followers and have proven you can be successful by copying somebody else's widget.

[PinkyMacGodess]

I've always seen Dell as a reseller and not an innovator.

Exactly. Dell is like McDonalds who famously said that they were 'too big to fail' and that even if they quit TODAY, their real estate holdings would be enough to keep them profitable to many years.

But you have to realize that insanity breeds intelligence. Some of the most craziest people are the most intelligent.

People are happy with iTunes and apple and are not looking for an alternative.

Don't count them out, yet. People are willing to switch, if they perceive that they gain by the change. I use Amazon now almost exclusively for music. Why? The price option has disappeared on a per song basis but there is no DRM AND the double CD price is often a few bucks below itunes.

But Amazon doesn't do movies (that I'm aware of) and I still have used itunes for a few movies. But I'm willing to change, "if it's compatible". Where Dell screwed up is making their player incompatible with itunes tracks. But now the Zune appears to be doing fine and it's incompatible with 'itunes' tracks.

But, never underestimate the stupidity of the average person. After nearly eight years of Bush (and the economic and social mess), people are still willing to vote for four more years under McCain and 'Cindy'... I've got a Zune. The thing sucks but evidently not enough to keep people from buying it. The whole wireless thing is an interesting 'feature' to me and nothing more then that.

Point is: Don't count Dell out, yet. They may create enough rope and hang themselves, or create enough rope and hang Apple. It is possible. Not likely, but possible...

[Cormac]

As a Dell employee, I really think that Mikey should be more concerned with keeping the company profitable than a second revenge try at a MP3 player.

[ryanwarsaw]

if they do it in a userfriendly way and bundle the service with mp3 players, free music and dell notebooks it could be a real threat to apple.


this could cost apple some market share. the zune failed because there was no reason to choose a zune over an ipod.
but dell sells 30% of all computers and if my dell notebook comes with a dell mp3 player and some free music in a bundle why would i buy an ipod?

There is no reason not to. Don't be shy run out and do it.

[PinkyMacGodess]

My point was that just because someone is labled as being 'crazy' doesn't mean that they can't pull off an upset. I used politics because that's what is current with the election coming up.

Does Dell have a chance? Through having the right advertising and PR campaign they have stayed in business. People actually believe that they have 'world class support' and that they care about their customers. The truth is rarely like the illusion created with money and a lot of polish. Perhaps their biggest deception is that they have 'cutting edge products'. They are the McDonalds of the computer industry. Every body does hamburgers. It was the 'Happy Meal' that put McDonalds on the map. It's only lately that Dell has seen the benefit of introducing color and innovation into their products, and even then it's been mostly a cover...

Do they have a chance? Sure. That doesn't mean that I'll be owning a new Dell player in 5 years.

[ezekielrage_99]

It's clear Tim has an issue with manic-depression. It's just sad. :(






:)

It's not manic, it's just plain stupid. I'm sorry but there's no medical/psychological diagnosis for stupidity....


Microsoft tried and fails so I think it's safe to say Dell wont make much of a ripple either....

[rdrr]

Let's see... Dell tried a music player... Fail! Dell tried a Mall store... Fail!

Third time will work for sure. :rolleyes:

[peterdevries]

The competition clause in Bucher's Apple contract will ensure that they (Dell) will only be able to use his "excellent leading and innovation skills" as opposed to some nice and juicy Apple secrets to develop their service or Apple will shred them to pieces. Especially after this dumb public revenge announcement..

Good luck to Dell. Dell customers buy their computers for their cheapness, not for a wholesome software, hardware and cloudware (did I just invent that word?) multimedia experience.

edit: just checked: didn't invent cloudware, Damn! :D

[elgruga]

Well, if you knew the history of Dell, you'd know that they had a huge impact on the PC industry in the late 80s and early 90s when their customer service was the best in the industry, and their PCs were well-designed and reliable. I bought about 7 different Dell computers during that time period, and they were all pretty good computers.

Sorry, NO.

They did NOT make a good computer, they made cheap computers with very BAD customer service. They still do.

Get real here - all Dell has EVER done is buy cheap components and load Windows on to the thing.

They cant write software, they dont actually design or build hardware, just cases.

This Dell music idea is the biggest crock since the last big crock.

Zing. Dell. Enough said - its not even real, its vapourware of the worst kind.

Shouldnt even be a thread.

And to quote from a post on another Mac site:

'Dell writing software? That's an interesting concept. And a novel one as well. Dell has as much experience writing software as Elvis did.'

[137489]

Lets see, Dell's getting a lot of bad press lately; so they want to try to compete. the fact that someone Got fired and a competitor picked them up smells like NDA, trade secret, and intellectual right fraud, if it can be proven. But the only way it will hold out is if he went strait to Dell right after Apple and did not wait a year. Most non-competes state you must wait a year after leaving a company before going to a direct competitor - but we do not know the full terms of his contract and letting go. Plus anything can be fought.

But seriously, I can see this Mp3 player will have a bunch of random parts like Dell's laptops:

Samsung Screen
WD harddrive
Phillips DVDS burner
Kingston memory

Online App store and music store, oh that is a laugh. there is too much competition right now start another one. Beside itunes got the market on PC's and Mac's. I can just see it now, more trial bloatware on a PC to clog up disk spaces and resources. And if it is from Dell, expect crappy support.

[elgruga]

Oh yeah, didnt Micky Dell say Apple should be closed down and the cash given to the shareholders?

And we are wishing this jackass good luck? WHY?

Dell should be gone in 3 years anyway - their short game of cheap crap is over.

Dell is NOT 'competition', Dell is a nasty PC co. that has held back the industry along with Micro$oft for years.

Plus they have hired Enderle - a man with very little skill or sense.

I am actually angry that so many here think its all ok - these people are trying to drag us back into the 70's with the record biz selling us rubbish for high prices.

THINK, will ya?

[137489]

Dell does have software for diagnosis and PC tune ups.

too bad the dang thing diables your mouse, and then asks you to click continue or cancel... HA HA HA HA HA = Dell writing software.

Wait!!!! I remember a bunch of rolling bilboards travelling around laster year with some math mumbo jumbo on it (in the style of how Einstein did equations), and at the bottom it said "Understand this? then you should apply to work at Dell in Texas."

IBM was pissed because the rolling billboard was trolling around Research Triangle Park in Durham just outside their doorsteps.

The city of Winston-Salem was pissed, because they paid huge incentives to get Dell to build a plant here, to create jobs in an otherwise high unemployment area. Then to have a rolling billboard to lead people to Texas, after the plant was up and running....


I was looking for a job a few years ago, and I tried to get a job at Dell. I was told I was over-qualified; they only do hiring through cattle-calls (ie mass job fairs), and they only hire programmers from within.

Of course knowing how they lay off and re-higher every couple of months to a year - I am glad I didn't get to work for them.

[bobertoq]

From my point of view, any [potential] threats to anything Apple makes is a positive thing because it will cause Apple to up their product. Go Dell, go! Then Dell will up their product, and so on. :)

[gkarris]

LOL...

According to a lawsuit later filed by Bucher, Jobs said: "People think you are sometimes manic-depressive.... I think I'm going to have to ask you to leave the company." Bucher was stunned: He'd been promoted only a few months earlier. Bucher left Apple but soon sued for wrongful termination. He says the charges of mental illness are "completely false." Apple settled the suit in 2005 and declined to comment for this story.

Leave it up to Michael Dell to go ahead and hire him..

http://www.ihatedell.net/

(picture on far right).... :eek:

[batchtaster]

Is it April again already?

[Alx9876]

Dell hiring a disgruntled Apple employee will not get anywhere near iTunes or the success of the iPod,iPhone. It took many many years for iTunes to get as big as it did. Dell will not be anywhere near Apples success.

I am typing from a Dell right now. Can't wait to get the new Macbook next month. I am ready to chuck this thing off a building.

I might just do that too. Youtube myself throwing my old Dell PC off the SAN FRANCISCO GOLDEN GATE Bridge or something to that extent?

Then I'll email it to the media and Dell themselves. Here's what I think of you're crappy products mother *********'s.:)

[twoodcc]

i really don't think they stand a chance

[supmango]

An excellent media player on a Dell is just one more thing to SLOW IT DOWN. Dells come with so much junk, people probably will impulsively uninstall it just because they don't recognize it. This is laughable at best.

[venicedan]

dell is funny, joke right?

[supmango]

Dell does have software for diagnosis and PC tune ups.

too bad the dang thing diables your mouse, and then asks you to click continue or cancel... HA HA HA HA HA = Dell writing software.

Wait!!!! I remember a bunch of rolling bilboards travelling around laster year with some math mumbo jumbo on it (in the style of how Einstein did equations), and at the bottom it said "Understand this? then you should apply to work at Dell in Texas."

IBM was pissed because the rolling billboard was trolling around Research Triangle Park in Durham just outside their doorsteps.

The city of Winston-Salem was pissed, because they paid huge incentives to get Dell to build a plant here, to create jobs in an otherwise high unemployment area. Then to have a rolling billboard to lead people to Texas, after the plant was up and running....


I was looking for a job a few years ago, and I tried to get a job at Dell. I was told I was over-qualified; they only do hiring through cattle-calls (ie mass job fairs), and they only hire programmers from within.

Of course knowing how they lay off and re-higher every couple of months to a year - I am glad I didn't get to work for them.

No wonder their computers are worthless, they use a retail corporation philosophy of expendable labor. It amazes me how seemingly intelligent people just can't seem to make good decisions when it matters.

[supmango]

Lets see, Dell's getting a lot of bad press lately; so they want to try to compete. the fact that someone Got fired and a competitor picked them up smells like NDA, trade secret, and intellectual right fraud, if it can be proven. But the only way it will hold out is if he went strait to Dell right after Apple and did not wait a year. Most non-competes state you must wait a year after leaving a company before going to a direct competitor - but we do not know the full terms of his contract and letting go. Plus anything can be fought.

But seriously, I can see this Mp3 player will have a bunch of random parts like Dell's laptops:

Samsung Screen
WD harddrive
Phillips DVDS burner
Kingston memory

Online App store and music store, oh that is a laugh. there is too much competition right now start another one. Beside itunes got the market on PC's and Mac's. I can just see it now, more trial bloatware on a PC to clog up disk spaces and resources. And if it is from Dell, expect crappy support.

Even IF Dell got its' hands on "trade secrets" from Apple, they would have it so screwed up by the time they go done making it work on Vista, it wouldn't matter. Apple has no competition on this, Dell still has to work in Vista.

[supmango]

Oh yeah, didnt Micky Dell say Apple should be closed down and the cash given to the shareholders?

And we are wishing this jackass good luck? WHY?

Dell should be gone in 3 years anyway - their short game of cheap crap is over.

Dell is NOT 'competition', Dell is a nasty PC co. that has held back the industry along with Micro$oft for years.

Plus they have hired Enderle - a man with very little skill or sense.

I am actually angry that so many here think its all ok - these people are trying to drag us back into the 70's with the record biz selling us rubbish for high prices.

THINK, will ya?

I agree with your point. Unfortunately, many people resist change simply because it is. Dell might survive a bit longer just because people go there by default. Dell counts on this for a certain percentage of sales. I know several people that bought new dell's simply because the old one quit working; never even considering that the product should have lasted longer (than 18 MONTHS:eek:). Companies like Dell create progressively shorter life-expectancies in computers, and people keep buying them. Thinking is an issue for a lot of people.

[gibbz]

Funny enough, Dell was my last PC before switching to Apple four years ago. I do not miss it. This music thing will fail like most of their computers.

[ProwlingTiger]

Dell can't even handle building PCs. How the hell is it going to manage this one? If they're having trouble in the PC market, they have no clue what's in store in the music industry.

[Old Smuggler]

Does anybody even buy dell's anymore?
if i bought a pc it definitely wouldn't be a dell

[Xian Zhu Xuande]

I'd be happy if they could list artists correctly, I know Apple can't, often doubling the same artist and having their recordings split due to a letter capitalisation. :mad:
So fix the capitalization? I think iTunes should treat spacing and capitalization differences as differences, rather than trying to lump them together. You've got all the tools you need to manage your library however you like.

I don't understand the reporting. He says the charges of mental illness are false. Even if they were true, wouldn't it be illegal to fire on the basis of the disability?
I don't see why a depressive person should get a free ride. If he was depressed, and he was allowing that to affect his performance at the job, or that of others, then Jobs was well within his rights to reprimand or terminate him as appropriate. We definitely don't know how serious his problem was—or how Jobs reacted to it—but what he says in a money grab lawsuit is certainly not something we can trust.

No company should have to make accommodations for an employee's depression.

[gkarris]

Dell is reportedly working on standardizing a system across computers, mobile phones and online music sites to provide a universal system for digital distribution. Details remain sketchy but some analysts are understandably skeptical about Dell's chances.

Dell is expected to unveil details of their plan in September.


Like, a day or two before Apple's announcement of updated computers and iPods? LOL...

Sure, I'll forget the thousands spent on horrible Dell computers, and the abuse from their Customer Service Reps. Sure Michael Dell and Steve Ballmer - anything you say... :eek:

[bpl323]

Haven't people tried this before?

[arjaosx]

Zune, Zing, Zap a big Zyet.

Where's the creativity there? Zhucks!

[robanga]

...yeah Good luck with that.

Seriously dominating a business is hard to for too long these days, but If I were Apple I am not sure I'd be looking over my shoulder at Dell.

[ZorPrime]

Does anybody even buy dell's anymore?
if i bought a pc it definitely wouldn't be a dell

I'm embarrassed to admit it but I actually bought one last month, XPS 1530... the company I work for gets 20% discount, I had a coupon for an additional 10%, plus I hit the store on one of the "deal" days... either way, I got a pretty good deal but the craftsmanship doesn't come close to Apple's MBP. Anyway, it plays Crysis at all medium settings with a nice and steady frame rate... but, I did re-image the hard-drive... uninstalled Vista and put XP on it. I just realized how funny "X" "P" put together is... it's like a laughing face sticking its tongue out at the customer, courtesy of M$... :eek:

At the end of the day, I have a 17" Powerbook (got it right before the intel machines came out), does the job, but am not ready to upgrade to MBP yet. My MacPro does the "heavy lifting". :D

[elmateo487]

Uh hello people! Competition is ALWAYS good. No matter how crappy it is! Microsoft's windows SUCKS because there is no one else to even come close in sales. So where is the urgency? The innovation? Exactly. There is none.

So i personally HOPE that dell does well. For one, it is Apple. They will not be beaten in the music market. All that we could see are lower prices, more deals, and more innovation in iTunes. All good things. And if dell fails!? They will be fine, they are second only to HP in the laptop market. (Not that we want them to do well... Haha)

[seashellz]

God help them...and good luck.
If DELL cant beat WALMART-how do they expect to beat APPLE?

[patricksan]

Competition is always good.
But I think in this case, Apple will not have "a competition case". There is no way!

[MattInOz]

Good competition is good (see amazon).
Bad competition just lowers the perceived value, by frustrating the consumer and screwing over the primary producers, this case the artists.

Just can't see Dell being good competition, I can see them just going after price and the way they are talking 'Freedom' they will be locking those tracks up tight in DRM or what ever new term the PR department signs off on.

Good Competition would offer something new to the market to generate new demand then use that to bargain better prices for all concerned.

[jazman]

Don't jump to conclusions about why old boy was fired based on what he says. Everybody wants to file suit when they are fired. It's an embarrasing thing. I've been fired twice in my life and both times I wanted to file suit. Of course that was the second stage. The first stage is wanting to blow-up the building. I'm sure that's run across his mind too. :)

[supmango]

You have that right. I do disagree with the Bi-Polar diagnosis. While there could be tendencies, IMO, he really fits the pattern of a Narcissistic Personality Disorder, especially the lengths he has gone to to seek "revenge."

Dell is making a hug mistake giving this guy their money.

This is obviously an observation made by someone with a limited understanding of how to diagnose using DSM-IV criteria. You cannot simply look at a few quotes and determine the exact nature of someone's "mental illness." Sure, you can make assumptions and your observation is as valid as a bipolar diagnosis (based on known information), but can you prove one over the other? As a side note, the DSM-IV (which is the "Bible" for psychology and psychiatry) is a political tool (developed by a board of mostly psychiatrists, who are MD's) designed to facilitate insurance reimbursement and implies that, in this case, bipolar disorder is treated the same as a broken arm. Obviously its' not, but that is how it is. Lumping individuals into diagnostic criteria makes us feel better about our own delusions of predictability; when in fact, people are substantially more complicated than any individual diagnosis. Be careful when you make posts like this, some of us do know what you are talking about.

[SheriffParker]

The zinging is kind of a cool idea. Hopefully its not like Zune's 3 play, 3 day rule.

[wmw71190]

zinging of music sounds a lot like....

pushing of data in MobileMe. but whatevs

It's always good for Dell to fail a little bit more in the public eye so that everyone can see how good Apple is. Why does Apple even need advertising? They have Dell to do it for them :D

[venicedan]

zinging of music sounds a lot like....

pushing of data in MobileMe. but whatevs

It's always good for Dell to fail a little bit more in the public eye so that everyone can see how good Apple is. Why does Apple even need advertising? They have Dell to do it for them :D

well said, LOL

[SactoGuy18]

Dell must be almost insane to directly compete against Apple and well-entrenched MP3 player manufacturers like Creative and Sandisk, along with big names that successfully got into the market such as Sony and Samsung. :rolleyes:

That's why Amazon's MP3 downloader program works with iTunes and Windows Media Player 11.0, since that effectively serves almost the entire market for portable media players.

[BigHungry04]

Don't jump to conclusions about why old boy was fired based on what he says. Everybody wants to file suit when they are fired. It's an embarrasing thing. I've been fired twice in my life and both times I wanted to file suit. Of course that was the second stage. The first stage is wanting to blow-up the building. I'm sure that's run across his mind too. :)

I was fired from EDS in July, when they told me they were letting me go, I said "Yes! I'm free from Hell!" I never once thought about filing a lawsuit. I thought it was probably the best thing that ever happened to me. It gave me the excuse I needed to go back to college.

By the way, with competition all things get better. Advancement is only possible through competition.

[sanPietro98]

If you just replace "Dell" with any number of other companies, it sounds familiar. How many times does another company try this? Its getting ridiculous.

[michaelvoigt]

As usual Apple has to stay beyond bleeding edge. Innovation and forward thinking is expensive and more prone to failure.

Companies like Dell, Amazon and even Microsoft come in to a established marketplace and improve. They allow someone (Apple) to take risks and establish a market. Then they analyze the market and most importantly find faults and fix them. They will examine Apple's business plan and make small improvements.

Apple had a nightmare getting the RIAA and music companies to unify and produce itunes. Amazon came along later and got a better deal with the music industry. Amazon had insight and a better ecosystem to release DRM free music. Thanks to Apple the music companies and the RIAA were more comfortable with DRM free music, Amazon didn't innovate, they made small improvements.

Dell could very well have the next big idea, don't discount based on history ever.

hint, hint ... Apple make a untangling cord for the ipod/touch/phone ... do something with the cord.... I spend most of my time doing cord-management

[137489]

I was fired from EDS in July, when they told me they were letting me go, I said "Yes! I'm free from Hell!" I never once thought about filing a lawsuit. I thought it was probably the best thing that ever happened to me. It gave me the excuse I needed to go back to college.

By the way, with competition all things get better. Advancement is only possible through competition.


EDS is still around? I know a few people who went and worked for them in Tampa, Florida - Old Labcorp folks.....

[BigHungry04]

EDS is still around? I know a few people who went and worked for them in Tampa, Florida - Old Labcorp folks.....

Yeah they're still around, at least for a couple more months. HP bought them in May, and the sale should be complete either this month or next month. Then EDS will be known as EDS, an HP Company.