Microsoft Enlists Jerry Seinfeld in Ad War Against Apple

[(L)]

So, it seems that "one Microsoft executive has stated that Apple's 'Get a Mac' ad campaign has had a damaging effect on Vista's image." No, Vista has had a damaging effect on Vista's image. It's like the woman who says, "Does this dress make me look fat?" To which the correct—if not wise—answer is, "No, it's the fat that makes you look fat."

Another acceptable answer is, "No, you make the dress look fat."

My favorite answer, which would prevent her repeating the question:
"Yes of course, all dresses make you look fat."

By the way, women who ask that aren't often fat. Also, men look fat or just gross in any dress, so asking men isn't like asking an expert.

[wpc33]

"Who are the Ad-Wizards who came up with this one??"

[Unspeaked]

OMG, This thread is the best thing in my day! I hear voices in my head:

Jackie Mason: "HI! I'm a MAC!"
Rodney Dangerfield: "And I'M A PC!"

Justin Long: "Hi... I'm a Mac."
ALF: "AND I'M A PC!"

:apple::p

Well, they brought back Fred Astaire and Orville Redenbacher...

Maybe Microsoft's ads should just feature dead comedians; even if they wouldn't have approved when they were living, their estates probably won't turn down the $10 million...



What I find funny:

Bill Gates who once said "Television is not real life—in real life people actually have to leave the coffee shop and go to jobs" is going to be on television with a comedian who's sitcom had the characters sitting around in a coffee shop. And the comedian is a Mac user.

Since when do TV commercials and reality have anything to do with one another?

:p


Yes, well over.

"As of July 6, 2008, it has grossed $126,631,277 domestically"

and it cost $150 million to make. Huge success.

Um, are you suddenly John McCain or something? Isn't $26 million more than $100 million well over?

And while you're making it very clear you're not familiar with the film industry, yes - grossing $126 million domestically on a $150 million film is a success. As I said earlier, it grossed $287 million in total, plus whatever sales from DVDs, books and such. It made a lot of money. Accept it.

[gcmexico]

Apple should hire Jason Alexander!!!!! how can Seinfeld go pc:mad:

[Zadillo]

I'd be curious to see exactly what kind of commercials these will be. Personally I didn't think he was very effective or funny in the HP commercials he did, but then again something is off about HP's ad campaign in general.

He always seems to come off as very artificial though in the commercials he does; even if they're funny commercials, I'm not sure how they'll pull off Seinfeld trying to convince people about how great Vista is.

And I agree with the other posters; Vista's negative image is due to Vista. The idea that the "Get a Mac" ads are the only reason people have a negative view of Vista is silly, and doesn't even make logical sense (you'd see lots more people switching to Macs as opposed to simply downgrading to XP). I think it's also giving those ads much more credit than they probably deserve.

[Zadillo]

Apple should hire Jason Alexander!!!!! how can Seinfeld go pc:mad:

Seinfeld "went PC" when he started schilling for HP:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BraU_cpfBeI

[slackpacker]

Um...take it and start trolling Macrumors to bash Apple products?? ;)

Ah that would only be fun for a little while... Bashing Linux users is much more fun.:D

[russellb]

mm they are really clueless

"We think that's a sad message. Software out there is made to be compatible with your whole life."

Uhmm isnt that the whole point of getting a MAC and not a PC. That the PC is such crap and causes such grief that you CANT just get on with your work and your life !!!

[AidenShaw]

Anyway, what I found funny was your comment that iMac fans spin like helicopter. I don't mean to make fun of your English skills. It's funny because:

(1) Helicopters don't typically spin. If one was spinning above your house, you should run away! A helicopter's blades do spin, of course, when it is off the ground.

That's odd, because my window fan doesn't spin - but its blades do spin.

You made exactly the same mistake that you're accusing the other guy of making!

And, by the way, I'm sure that "spins like a helicopter" was perfectly understandable to 99% of the readers here. Not every statement needs to be written like it belongs in a technical manual - normal speech often has implied context.

[mr.light]

Every word? Including the part about how exciting it is to find a person who suffers for the sake of suffering? If you agreed on me with everything, it's quite possible that you are me, or perhaps an impostor out to deceive me. In any case, I'll get to the bottom of this, even if it means arresting myself. Or if we just happen to share the same tastes, I hope you don't live near me -- there's a woman I've seen at a park down the street who likes to torture herself in public, and if you touch her, I'll have to "reprogram" you.:(

With a sense of humour like yours you very well be... That's it! (L) is really Jerry Siefeld! It's true isn't it?:D

[ClassicMac247]

Seinfeld. really? What has he done in the last 10 years? I guess 18-25 yr olds are not part of Microsoft's target audience.

ironically, Jerry always had a Mac in is apartment on the show.

Thats exactly what I was going to say, Jerry Seinfeld has been a known Apple Customer both for personal use and use on his show, (I'm a fan of the show). Anyway, he's just in it for the cash, even he knows Apple is better. He's going to get so much hate mail for this, i think i'll send screencaps of his episodes when we see his Mac's.

[fastbite]

and i bet if apple were to hire him instead, people would be praising the decision :cool:
Of course, becouse it would have meant that apple,after having conquered the youth were going for the old floaters

[Cpt. Morgan]

OMG wake up MS - all you need to do to sell more of your product is to FIX IT! thats why people are switching, not because of Trendy, Hip Macvertising or style.....

oh dear

I disagree. Mac's have a huge bling factor. Its a huge portion of why and how they sell. How they are presented and the design of the computer itself is better than what most PC companies can offer with their computers.

I'd say the "bling" factor combined with the average user seeing Mac's as a superior product (which has to do with how they are presented) and the Vista hate out there (Vista in truth is tolerable) is why people are switching.

Apple is seeing a fat fat fat wallet that is growing because of the above. I'd say a huge amount of it has to do with how MS has failed to properly present themselves (ESPECIALLY Vista). Apple has created a wonderful little world more people view as being "better" and no one has challenged it. In truth "macs being better" is very debatable.

[surferfromuk]

At least we now know who was under the helmet.


http://www.icanhasforce.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/star-wars-boba-fett.jpg

Just another gun for hire.

[Kwill]

The Wall Street Journal reports that Microsoft is hiring comedian Jerry Seinfeld for a series of new ads in which he will appear alongside Microsoft's Bill Gates.A comedian is the only expert that can make the claim that Windows is better than Mac.

[milo]

I think this is not about liking Seinfeld.
It is about his celebrity status and that people know him.
When you see Seinfeld on the screen, you remember how show was funny, not just how Seinfeld funny himself.
He is a BRAND.

He's a brand all right, an incredibly tired one. People see him and they remember a great show a long time ago, and a guy who has been floundering since.

This reaction isn't just mac bias, look at the headline on Yahoo news:

"Microsoft, Trying to Be Cool, Hires Uncool Comic for Ad Campaign"

http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/49288/Microsoft-Trying-to-Be-Cool-Hires-Uncool-Comic-for-Ad-Campaign;_ylt=AmUD6tqa0rBLqQAY10Qa3Rm7YWsA?tickers=msft,aapl

We can joke all we want but $300 million will sell a lot of Vista and take some wind out of Apple's sales regardless of how bad it may be. (Hey, I used it for 3 weeks before upgrading my work laptop to XP). Not to mention they'll now be bundling their new iGetaLife apps with Vista. :D

No way. If you think throwing money into ad time is enough to help sales, you're incredibly naive. The ads actually have to be good (which MS has never done well), and people actually have to like the product when they start using it.

[TomTomGPS]

Are you guys kidding me? I'm 17 and many of my friends, including me, are huge fans of Seinfeld.

The reruns get very good ratings nationwide (on Fox and TBS, etc), and just FYI, Bee Movie made nearly $130 million in theaters. That is very good, for those of you too blunt to realize it.

Now I know I'm wasting my time, since many of you are typical blind fanboys, and while I am a big fan of Apple myself (I am sad that Seinfeld is doing the ads, but oh well), I am not ignorant enough to claim that he is a has been.

Please. He only created the greatest sitcom of all time, and that's purely based on facts (sales, reruns success, etc).

In Microsoft's dreamworld the best person they probably could have gotten was Stephen Colbert. And I defy you to come up with someone better.

[CWallace]

Considering the license deals Microsoft already has in place, which ensure over 50 million Vista licenses a quarter are sold, I really don't see the ad campaign being aimed at getting people to adopt Vista, but more to just accept it being the default OS on their PCs.

[Gray-Wolf]

This thread is amazing. I had no idea it would last this long and go this far in 1 day :eek:

Never really cared for Seinfeld myself. I preferred Friends. :D

[rumplestiltskin]

I think MS is confusing correlation with causation. Vista is damaged not by Apple but by its own failure to work properly. Apple is just taking advantage of this.

All the advertising in the world won't fix Vista. (Maybe if they Swift-Boat Steve Jobs?)

[milo]

Are you guys kidding me? I'm 17 and many of my friends, including me, are huge fans of Seinfeld.

That's nice. Just because people still watch his show doesn't mean that people still think he's cool. People still watch lots of old shows in reruns, but that doesn't mean the actors from those shows are good spokesmen, particularly for tech products.

FYI, Bee Movie made nearly $130 million in theaters. That is very good, for those of you too blunt to realize it.

And it was hugely hyped and cost 150 million. So it LOST money. Losing money is not "very good".

Now I know I'm wasting my time, since many of you are typical blind fanboys...

Ah, the tired "fanboy" card. For the record, I'd be saying the exact same thing if any other company hired Seinfeld for ads, including apple.

He only created the greatest sitcom of all time

Do you even understand what the term "has been" even means? It's not somebody who hasn't done anything, it's someone who did something big a long time ago but nothing recently. That definition fits Seinfeld perfectly.

[MickdyMickdyMAC]

The ad agency in charge is Crispin Porter + Bogusky. http://cpbgroup.com/
Their have a nice portfolio of campaigns they've been involved with.

There was an article on this in the June issue of Fast Company magazine. I remember it being a very interesting article with a lot of ironic stuff in it like how the Crispin Ported + Bogusky agency pretty much exists because of the revolution to desktop publishing that the Mac brought. So I wouldn't be surprised that this agency will even execute this Microsoft campaign using Macs, lol.

Ah, I found the article: http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/126/believe-it-or-not-hes-a-pc.html

It's a good read.

[slapppy]

Twentieth Anniversary Macintosh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twentieth_Anniversary_Macintosh)

It was awesome to have. I still have mine boxed away in 100% perfect condition. :)

Go here.

http://tam.axon.net/

Forgot to point out. Click the image and you'll see some other Apple conceptual designs for the TAM.

[The Flashing Fi]

I can't help but think that it's about time that MS does something about the propaganda that are the "Get a Mac" ads. Jesus, they are annoying.

How Apple makes PCs look as if they're for "old" business people, is just inane. If you're a "gamer," you're going to pretty much need Windows. Yes, there are Mac games, but the list of Windows games outweigh the Mac games, and many of the Mac games are cross platform.

Don't get me wrong. I like my Mac, but I also like my PC that I built. The "Get a Mac" commercials that take aim specifically at Vista are borderline slander. They made Vista appear as if nothing worked at it (and the first one to quote that and then say something to the tune of "well, nothing does work" must have gained all their "information" about Vista through the commercial), when in fact, many things did work, and while admittedly, it was a rocky start out of the box, due to the implementation of a new driver model (although, older drivers theoretically should work, certain features may not be present or work properly), which, in the long run, has helped the adoption rate of Vista 64-bit (the adoption rate of XP 64-bit was nearly non-existent, and it's based off the Server 2003 codebase, which is updated from XP's codebase, and some things may not work properly), since, if companies were going to have to create new drivers for Vista 32-bit anyway, they might as well put in the extra effort to make them work for 64-bit. However, after 6-8 months, drivers had improved dramatically, and after a year, on par with those of XP's in quality (depending on the manufacturer). SP1 also addressed many issues.

It's not like Leopard didn't have any software incompatibilities or any other problems when it was first released.... Wait. There were. :eek:

[badmac78]

ok . . .

"Windows, not Walls", pretty interesting seeing as that M$ has had more anti-trust suits than you can shake a script at.

Get a mac ad causing damage to Vista? I'm not sure if that is doing more damage or all of the negative press the software has been getting after actual usage.

"Software meant to be compatible with your whole life" . . . alright, maybe it's me but Apple has done a better job at creating an "ecosystem" that fits with your whole life than M$.

As far as signing Seinfeld. I did not enjoy his show so I am completely biased. I think that if 'Softy is going to go head-to-head with the "get a mac ad" they may want to think about a few things

1. Portability - The Apple ads are very portable (geographically). Seinfeld is a very U.S. centric character
2. Product Focus - This is very subjective but I have a feeling that the ad will have Jerry saying something like "I am Jerry and I approve this message"
3. Simplicity - This is also a wait and see, but 'Softy has not been known for simplicity. And I can't even remember the last time I saw a "windows" video ad. So we will see how busy the ad is

M$ chose JS I think because the they are trying to defend their 30-40 demographic with is the business demographic . . . if Apple makes inroads into the boardroom then 'Softy is surely done for.

[Sherman Homan]

Seinfeld: "Macs are gay. Not that there's anything WRONG with that."
http://macintoshsolutions.com/test/seinfeld.jpg

[zarusoba]

As Woody Allen said, "80% of success is showing up".

In this case, showing up on the set of whichever tech company is offering the most money.

[TomTomGPS]

And it was hugely hyped and cost 150 million. So it LOST money. Losing money is not "very good".
http://www.reuters.com/article/industryNews/idUSWNAS046320080430

I didn't say it did great, but it didn't do bad either.


Ah, the tired "fanboy" card. For the record, I'd be saying the exact same thing if any other company hired Seinfeld for ads, including apple.
Well then that wasn't pointed at you, was it? Of course I suppose I'm being a hypocrite here, with my defense of Seinfeld.


Do you even understand what the term "has been" even means? It's not somebody who hasn't done anything, it's someone who did something big a long time ago but nothing recently. That definition fits Seinfeld perfectly.
I realize this, but it just seems wrong to call him one. At least he did Bee Movie.


Not that it matters who Microsoft got. Too little, too late, right?

[Trajectory]

So I wouldn't be surprised that this agency will even execute this Microsoft campaign using Macs, lol.

It would be VERY interesting to find out what kind of computers are being used by the creatives at this agency. I'll bet they are Macs! Apple should just play the new Windows commercials, and at the end say "Made with a Mac!"

[mixmacface]

i didn't read all the posts, so i'm probably repeating somebody,
"what's the deal with apples? they're red, shiny and a fruit. not a computer!"

[o9ski]

He's a brand all right, an incredibly tired one. People see him and they remember a great show a long time ago, and a guy who has been floundering since.

This reaction isn't just mac bias, look at the headline on Yahoo news:

"Microsoft, Trying to Be Cool, Hires Uncool Comic for Ad Campaign"

http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/49288/Microsoft-Trying-to-Be-Cool-Hires-Uncool-Comic-for-Ad-Campaign;_ylt=AmUD6tqa0rBLqQAY10Qa3Rm7YWsA?tickers=msft,aapl



No way. If you think throwing money into ad time is enough to help sales, you're incredibly naive. The ads actually have to be good (which MS has never done well), and people actually have to like the product when they start using it.

Are you kidding me!
Jerry Yang is the last person I would seek opinion on MS.
Especially after Google bailing out his Yahoo thing (or whatever left of it).

[o9ski]

It would be VERY interesting to find out what kind of computers are being used by the creatives at this agency. I'll bet they are Macs! Apple should just play the new Windows commercials, and at the end say "Made with a Mac!"

The majority of creative agencies use Macs.
However, good design comes from creative minds not Mac or PC.
If you read a nice novel, you don't credit a typewriter or MSWord, do you?

[HLdan]

This thread is a classic example of Apple fanboy hypocrisy.

I have little doubt that if the article were about Apple having hired Seinfeld to do new "Get a Mac" spots for them, you'd all be drooling over the idea and talking about how he's brilliant is and how timeless his comedy is.

I actually think these ads will turn out to be some of Microsoft's best, since Mr. Seinfeld is still a pretty funny guy, and think he's a great choice to refresh Microsoft's image. They've never been about going after the Adult Swim crowd, people - Seinfeld's broad fan appeal (remember, he had one of the most popular TV shows in history and still routinely sells out arenas doing stand up) is exactly the same base Microsoft covets.

Wow, you just showed us all how much of a Microsoft FANBOY you are.

[MickdyMickdyMAC]

Seinfeld: "Macs are gay. Not that there's anything WRONG with that."


I actually think MS paid $10mil to Seinfeld just to use one of his memorable catchphrases from his show - like the one you pointed out or even the "Master of your own domain" or maybe the "....but I don't want to be a pirate" one spun into the Switcher or Mac Dude.

I don't think MS is gonna go after the "cool" thing (at least directly) as I think they'll not do something that Apple has already done.

[Mackan]

I actually think MS paid $10mil to Seinfeld just to use one of his memorable catchphrases from his show - like the one you pointed out or even the "Master of your own domain" or maybe the "....but I don't want to be a pirate" one spun into the Switcher or Mac Dude.

I don't think MS is gonna go after the "cool" thing (at least directly) as I think they'll not do something that Apple has already done.

Well, hopefully they will not sink as low as to use mocking techniques, like Apple does to Windows.

[ezekielrage_99]

I can see the ads now.....

"The Mac-Nazi" - No apples for you....
"Master of your domain" - Internet porn?

[slapguts]

"Vista - An OS about nothing."

[Pikemann Urge]

Frankly, the ads will fail because Microsoft is in charge and they just don't know how to be popular. That's really all there is to it. But all the critisizm of WHO is in the ad is misplaced and beside the point.
Finally - proof that my fellow Mac users can exhibit sanity. :p

But your right, SWC. MS is like the lame, podgy suburban man who tucks his aqua polo shirt into his cream khaki shorts and drapes his windcheater over his shoulders. And then buys a Porsche Boxter thinking he's something special. When he should have bought a Ferrari F355 and a new wardrobe.

Can we quit with the Seinfeld bashing? Please? EDIT: All of a sudden Seinfeld is a has-been simply because he's batting for a bunch of morons? Leave the guy alone.

[scotty96LSC]

Vista - it's in the pool.
Vista - no help to you, one year.
The Vista ate your baby.

[Pikemann Urge]

It would be VERY interesting to find out what kind of computers are being used by the creatives at this agency. I'll bet they are Macs!
Well as a matter of fact they are using Macs. Of course o9ski is right: it doesn't matter what the tool is. The point though is that if the ad agency uses Macs (and deliberately made the choice) then it does say something about the platform.

[o9ski]

Well as a matter of fact they are using Macs. Of course o9ski is right: it doesn't matter what the tool is. The point though is that if the ad agency uses Macs (and deliberately made the choice) then it does say something about the platform.

Let me tell you as an insider.
It's not deliberate choice it's just a legacy. Some old guys were using macs in 80s before Windows came out. Those were the days when Macs dominated and MS wasn't even there or was an underdog.
They used to software that was made for macs (Quark, etc.).
These days when Adobe dominates platform doesn't make any difference.
It's like manual vs automatic (by the way I drive both and know what i am talking about).
Mac is not a part of creative process, it's a tool.
Moreover, you might not believe me, but some agencies still run on G4 and early G5s and CRT monitors.

[kjs862]

This should be funny.

[The Flashing Fi]

Could have sworn that you can run Windows on a Mac... So even if someone buys a Mac, that doesn't mean that MS won't prosper. It will mean that HP, Dell, ect, won't. So even if the agency uses Macs, does it matter? After all, even Mac users who have Intel Macs are still being targeted by the ad campaign.

But your right, SWC. MS is like the lame, podgy suburban man who tucks his aqua polo shirt into his cream khaki shorts and drapes his windcheater over his shoulders. And then buys a Porsche Boxter thinking he's something special. When he should have bought a Ferrari F355 and a new wardrobe.

And Apple is what? The stuck up snob who thinks he's better than everyone else, even they're not.

And Linux is what? The hippie that smokes too much marijuana and feels that everything should be "free" and that we should all just get along.

Jesus Christ. Why do you people get so defensive over a company. Does it really matter? God forbid you acknowledge the strengths and downfalls of each OS and just accept them as what they really are... 1's and 0's. Maybe the strengths of Windows doesn't exactly benefit you, but that doesn't make it bad. You guys act as if Mac OS X is perfect, when in reality, it's far from it.

[onedem]

jerry: hi, i'm jerry
newman: i'm newman
jerry: i'm a mac user
newman: i use pc
yada yada yada

[Pikemann Urge]

Moreover, you might not believe me, but some agencies still run on G4 and early G5s and CRT monitors.
I absolutely *do* believe you! I mean, you don't always need to upgrade your hardware or software. Sometimes you can just say 'stop, that will be enough'.

Then there's the philosophy of 'if it isn't broke don't fix it'. Some folks stumble upon a perfect, stable set-up and leave it at that.


Jesus Christ. Why do you people get so defensive over a company.
Who's defensive? Some people will make religions out of anything. Too bad for them I suppose.

Does it really matter?
Do clothes matter? Does anything matter? Now we're getting philosophical.

You guys act as if Mac OS X is perfect, when in reality, it's far from it.
Who said that? Do you have any evidence? Please show me this evidence. If people say 'it's perfect for me' it doesn't count.

There are lots of posts around here by Mac users who wish for fundamental changes to Apple software. Go look for them.

And lighten up. Go on. I know you can.

[o9ski]

jerry: hi, i'm jerry
newman: i'm newman
jerry: i'm a mac user
newman: i use pc
yada yada yada

If I had to choose b/w these two to let live I would choose Newman.
To bad some dinosaur ate him in Jurassic Park 1. :D
Imagine this guy against that Mac hippie dude.
:D

Man, iTunes crashed my iMac again..

[trevorlsciact]

It's not like he's Michael Jackson or Michael Jordan.

Now THATS a microsoft commercial I'd like to see lol

[Rot'nApple]

Bring back Seinfeld and his cast of characters...

We can have "The Soup Nazi" commercial...

'No XP for you!" :rolleyes:

[(L)]

That's odd, because my window fan doesn't spin - but its blades do spin.

You made exactly the same mistake that you're accusing the other guy of making!

And, by the way, I'm sure that "spins like a helicopter" was perfectly understandable to 99% of the readers here. Not every statement needs to be written like it belongs in a technical manual - normal speech often has implied context.

OK, well, we could get into this, and you're fundamentally right about English needing to imply a lot. However, I wasn't actually picking on him because I thought it was not "understandable" -- I don't doubt you could guess his meaning. No, it's just that I happened to find it funny, when I thought of a helicopter actually spinning. You missed the point.

What you say about technical vs implying with colloquialisms is quite accurate. However, you seem to think it's normal to describe helicopters as spinning, which isn't the case. With a top or a revolving door, it's clear that basically the thing we picture in response to their names spins. Likewise with a computer fan, though technically it needs a motor to spin it. The computer fan, top, or revolving door are all essentially spinning things, while a helicopter, indoor cooling fan, or unicycle just have parts that spin, when we picture the situation of spinning. Therefore, if something which only has a small (if significant) spinning part is described in general as spinning, it can have comic effects.

That's why I said I wasn't picking on his English skills -- it's not so much a mistake as a funny way of putting it, like my daughter once described a unicorn as "pointy." Understandable, but funny. (Yes, my daughter sees unicorns.)

[o9ski]

OK, well, we could get into this, and you're fundamentally right about English needing to imply a lot. However, I wasn't actually picking on him because I thought it was not "understandable" -- I don't doubt you could guess his meaning. No, it's just that I happened to find it funny, when I thought of a helicopter actually spinning. You missed the point.

What you say about technical vs implying with colloquialisms is quite accurate. However, you seem to think it's normal to describe helicopters as spinning, which isn't the case. With a top or a revolving door, it's clear that basically the thing we picture in response to their names spins. Likewise with a computer fan, though technically it needs a motor to spin it. The computer fan, top, or revolving door are all essentially spinning things, while a helicopter, indoor cooling fan, or unicycle just have parts that spin, when we picture the situation of spinning. Therefore, if something which only has a small (if significant) spinning part is described in general as spinning, it can have comic effects.

That's why I said I wasn't picking on his English skills -- it's not so much a mistake as a funny way of putting it, like my daughter once described a unicorn as "pointy." Understandable, but funny. (Yes, my daughter sees unicorns.)

Don't worry. I knew that it sounded funny. Sometimes I use interesting ways to articulate my thoughts.

On the other hand, if one gets into technical details then it could be successfully argued that helicopter is spinning... from the point of view of helicopter blades. Everything is relative. All depends on your reference point.

Just because it appears that the Sun is spinning around the Earth it is not factually correct. It is undeniably true that just the opposite is correct.
:cool:

[The Flashing Fi]

Who's defensive?

Seems to me that you're being defensive:

Who said that? Do you have any evidence? Please show me this evidence.


Besides, I never said that people were claiming that Mac OS is perfect. I said they're attitude regarding Mac OS X leaves the impression that they feel that it's "perfect." Just pop into the Macbook Pro forums when someone asks whether they should get a better specced PC laptop or a Macbook Pro. Most of the comments basically say that the Macbook Pro is better with little to no explanation, or that they shouldn't get Vista because it's got all these problems (many of which are huge exaggerations or put in a negative light because the person making the comments don't know any better, such as "Vista is a memory hog," without knowing what Vista is doing with the memory).

If you want a little evidence, here:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=542831

I'll even point you to a few posts that make my point that many people around here act as if Mac OS X is a "superior" OS.

Post #3.

Wow, and it even runs Vista!

No thanks...

Woof, Woof – Dawg http://homepage.mac.com/k.j.vinson/pawprint.gif

Post #15:
It looks like two old Thinkpads and a blue pocket calculator went through the Enterprise's transporter together and got mutated on the other end! Show some mercy and euthanize it! It's cruel to make it live that way, especially infected with the world's most popular virus: Vista! :D

Post #67:

This is a perfect example:
Look, I can afford to buy any notebook I want
But lets be real, this is after all a Mac site, what do you expect?

It could be faster than a speeding bullet and able to leap tall buildings with a single bound and able to bend steel with it's mouse... but the bottom line to me is it runs VISTA (or it is the latest greatest using the ancient XP)

I buy for OSX... my MBP does everything I need AND it runs OSX
I don't have to download an update every 3 days for security
I don't have to update my AVG every day
I don't have to update my Defender every day
I don't have to use all that horsepower to scan in the background all day
I don't have to worry about everything sent to me in email
I don't have to worry about every site I visit
I could go on and on

So, if you want to come to a Mac site and extol all of the virtues of a PC that runs 0-60 in 1.8 seconds and gets 273 miles per gallon... so be it... but the bottom line is.. it is a PC and runs VISTA

Don't want it
Don't need it

If I did... I would buy one and not complain about the Mac not doing this or that... I would just get it

Woof, Woof – Dawg http://homepage.mac.com/k.j.vinson/pawprint.gif

Those are just a few examples. Once again, it's key to note my wording. I didn't say that people said that Mac OS is perfect. I said that they acted as if it was/is. There is a difference. It may be small, but it's still there.

It's kind of like me saying, "You act as if you're God." I'm not saying you proclaimed yourself God or that you yourself said that you're God. I'm just saying that your actions make it seem that you're under the impression that you're God. The same thing applies here. The way people talk about Mac OS X, especially in comparison to Windows, makes it seem as if they're under this impression that it's "perfect." Of course the word "perfect" is used loosely, but it's there to illustrate a point.

My problem doesn't lie with Mac users. My problem lies with fanboys. You know, the ones who think that "product X" is the cure for cancer and will bring world peace. Right...

[Ubuntu]

I love how so many of you have instantly pounced on Seinfield for this, a.k.a "Oh I never liked him anyway!"

Seems heavily defensive, but then I guess Microsoft fanboys say the same about Justin Long and the PC guy.

[Unspeaked]

Seinfeld: "Macs are gay. Not that there's anything WRONG with that."


Now that would be a pretty interesting ad...


Wow, you just showed us all how much of a Microsoft FANBOY you are.

Yeah, very thoughtful post there, chief.

I'm glad anyone who doesn't fall head-over-heels in love with all of Apple's actions is a Microsoft fanboy.

I mean, after all - I own a whole zero Microsoft products, have never owned a computer other than a Mac and have been posting on this Mac-centric site since 2003, but since I don't think it's the worst idea in the world that they're featuring Seinfeld in some advertising, I'm a Microsoft fanboy. I think you've maybe been to one too many keynotes and gotten your brain fried by the RDF...

[sushi]

I love how so many of you have instantly pounced on Seinfield for this, a.k.a "Oh I never liked him anyway!"
I don't know about the others, but personally, I do not care for Seinfeld at all.

Comedy is one of those things that you either like or do not like. In my case, Seinfeld falls in the later. To each his own.

Just glad that he is not working with Apple.

[Pigumon]

Just because some properties person placed a mac in the corner of the set of the seinfeld show doesn't mean Jerry Seinfeld was pro-mac or even ever used a mac.

Come on, he's getting 10 MILLION for like a day's work. Even if he has tons of royalties, why not take the 10 mill. It's just computers, no one's selling out Jesus here.

Speaking of which, Christ would've been way smarter to put in the think different ads than SEINFELD. Why was he in that? Did he change the world in any way...? oh wait, he paved the way for mind pulping trash like FRIENDS...

[twoodcc]

wow, now this should be interesting. i like Seinfeld

[MickdyMickdyMAC]

Do you guys think the ad agency (Crispin Porter + Bogusky) have already found this thread?

I'm honestly looking forward to being entertained by what they come up with and then Apple's response. This should be fun. Was there ever an animated celebrity death match between Ballmer and Jobs?

[Pikemann Urge]

Do you guys think the ad agency (Crispin Porter + Bogusky) have already found this thread?
They're too busy working to read it probably. :) I only participate in a handful of forums myself and I'm hardly snowed under with work.

I'm honestly looking forward to being entertained by what they come up with and then Apple's response.
I hope Apple doesn't respond. Only juvenile minds react to challenges. You know you're winning when your opposition reacts to you. Apple seems far too disciplined to react to this nonsense.

Creative ads don't work as much as you'd think. Celebrities in ads don't either. Just a thought.

[AceWilfong]

Jack Oakie too...damn!

[tiggery2k3]

And all those old pics will come to the fore.

They need someone like Jeff Dunham.

Bill could be played by Achmed the dead terrorist.

Job's?? Why Peanut, of course. :D

or maybe bubba ray, evil or stupid I'm not quite sure which portrays ms better evil or trailor trash

[poe diddley]

yeah i'm sorry i love seinfeld's show and standup but now he's just a sellout to me after this BS. i know it's been mentioned since the first reply, but if you're gonna have a mac in every episode of your show and then turn around and promote micro$oft a decade later cause they forked over some bucks then maybe it's time to get off your ass and get back to work. i mean, other than the crappy beemovie what has he done since the sitcom and that one standup? nada.
you're just being lazy now jerry.
there's not a chance in hell he likes vista or even cares.

[SandynJosh]

I'm an old guy and I remember Seinfeld. He's yesterday's news. I wonder how few incoming college freshmen even know who he is. Even if they did, with their foreword focused vision, he's much to do about nothing.

Now if MS has signed someone in the news and who is admired, like Shaw Johnson as a Vista promoter, the Vista message might get attention. But no chance of that, the head MS monkeyboy is lost in the past and is of the mind that two rich has-beens are going to be influencers to the influencers. This is like hiring Zaa Zaa Gabor to shill furs to PETA members.

[k'five]

It is unreal to see Microsoft publicly accept this position of being on the defensive. If I were a shareholder, I'd be totally pissed. As big as they are, they're going to admit that Apple has them flustered? That's pathetic.

If they put the 300 million into fixing that ridiculous OS, they wouldn't have to grovel for sympathy in ad campaigns at all. What an embarrassment.

[Cheffy Dave]

Good point - he hasn't really done much lately. You'd think Microsoft would want to partner with a more current star to appeal to the younger demographic. But then again, it's Microsoft, so perhaps not... :p ;)

Pity poor Microsoft, always playing catch up,I switched January of this year.
Never going back!, should have been here years ago;)

[Cheffy Dave]

It was awesome to have. I still have mine boxed away in 100% perfect condition. :)

Go here.

http://tam.axon.net/

Forgot to point out. Click the image and you'll see some other Apple conceptual designs for the TAM.

Thanks for the links, very interesting, some butt-ugly concepts, some very avant guard, even by todays standards

[GGJstudios]

I'll even point you to a few posts that make my point that many people around here act as if Mac OS X is a "superior" OS.

There is nothing in my post that would give the impression that I think Mac OS X is a "superior" OS ..... only that Vista is an "inferior" OS! That doesn't come from a bias in favor of everything Apple. Rather, it stems from being a very advanced Windows user since Windows 1.0 was first released in 1985. The more time one spends with a more technically advanced exposure to the Windows OS, the more one recognizes its overwhelming shortcomings.

Yes, Mac OS X is superior to Windows in many, many ways, but both have weaknesses. There's no such thing as a flawless OS. To fail to recognize the inherent advantages of a UNIX-based OS over a DOS-based OS is to either be technically naïve or in a serious state of denial.

[princealfie]

Seinfield sucks honestly... Microsoft would have been smarter to use Jon Stewart instead!

[princealfie]

Just because some properties person placed a mac in the corner of the set of the seinfeld show doesn't mean Jerry Seinfeld was pro-mac or even ever used a mac.

Come on, he's getting 10 MILLION for like a day's work. Even if he has tons of royalties, why not take the 10 mill. It's just computers, no one's selling out Jesus here.

Speaking of which, Christ would've been way smarter to put in the think different ads than SEINFELD. Why was he in that? Did he change the world in any way...? oh wait, he paved the way for mind pulping trash like FRIENDS...

Maybe jesus would have better luck selling Microsoft than Sin-field could ever do...

[GGJstudios]

Maybe jesus would have better luck selling Microsoft than Sin-field could ever do...

Not even Gates has THAT kind of money! LOL :D

[princealfie]

Not even Gates has THAT kind of money! LOL :D

Looks like Mistah T. Haggard already got first dibs on Christ, man. And certainly not in the type of currency you would expect....

[macwall]

this will really work

[IgnatiusTheKing]

I didn't read all 13 pages of this thread, but I just wanted to chime in and register my mirth at Microsoft's decision.

Young people don't know who Jerry Seinfeld is, or if they do, they think his show is old and unfunny. I fail to see how this will improve their image with anyone under 30.

[janstett]

And he's into cars, which is always a turn off to me.

Not just cars, but Porsches, and really expensive Porsches like the $500,000 Carrera GT in particular. Even some car guys dislike him for that.

[janstett]

For all the people bemoaning Microsoft's apparent complete miss of the target demographic of 18-25 year olds with washed up Jerry Seinfeld, did you ever stop to think for a moment that maybe Seinfeld is exactly who they want?

I had marketing as a minor in college. Young people don't have money to spend as they don't have jobs or if they do they are low paying. So who are they targeting? The parents in their 40s and 50s who control the purse strings, who are the ones who fondly remember Seinfeld like it was just yesterday.

Let me put it this way, how many of you youngsters in your teens and early 20s actually paid for your Mac? If your parents paid for them, then consider how an advertiser would reach THEM, not YOU. IMO Microsoft is looking to short-circuit the "Mac is cool" wave amongst the young by going directly to their financiers.

[princealfie]

For all the people bemoaning Microsoft's apparent complete miss of the target demographic of 18-25 year olds with washed up Jerry Seinfeld, did you ever stop to think for a moment that maybe Seinfeld is exactly who they want?

I had marketing as a minor in college. Young people don't have money to spend as they don't have jobs or if they do they are low paying. So who are they targeting? The parents in their 40s and 50s who control the purse strings, who are the ones who fondly remember Seinfeld like it was just yesterday.

Let me put it this way, how many of you youngsters in your teens and early 20s actually paid for your Mac? If your parents paid for them, then consider how an advertiser would reach THEM, not YOU. IMO Microsoft is looking to short-circuit the "Mac is cool" wave amongst the young by going directly to their financiers.

I was in my 20's and I paid for every Mac I owned. Now I'm 31 and still pay for all of my Macs :p.

[janstett]

Chris who ? :D

You know, the hip young guy who was on SNL from 1990-1993 and got his break on Miami Vice. Oh....

[janstett]

I was in my 20's and I paid for every Mac I owned. Now I'm 31 and still pay for all of my Macs :p.

Good for you. I paid for every computer I ever owned starting at 13.

But you're possibly missing my point. Hard core geeks usually buy their own wares. But the masses get mommy and daddy to buy them. No high school kid buys their own computer, and freshmen heading off to college usually have mom and dad buy them a laptop. Now do you see what MS is aiming at? Not the kid, but the parent sending the kid off to college.

[swano]

lol its not like apple is a religion. id advertise for MS if I was offered 10 million without hesitation

So would I. Then I'd take that money and spend it on Apple gear!:D

[janstett]

Apple should now play on this and do "Mac vs PC" using clones of characters from the Seinfeld Show, like Kramer, George, and Elaine all trying to use Vista.

Now that would be funny.

"Clones"? I think the real actors are pretty much sitting at home staring at walls.

[quagmire]

http://www.youtube.com/v/vNDEwsIGJKI&hl=en&fs=1 (seinfeld in apple ad)

I have an instinctive dislike for Jerry Seinfeld. I think it was when I heard him criticizing the person suing his wife on Letterman in a very uncomfortable way. Then I was annoyed that he was so smug with Oprah. Then I was annoyed that he had these really annoying promos for the bee movie during each commercial break of the office one week. And then I've heard him be quite an apologist for scientology. And he's into cars, which is always a turn off to me.

Why is it a bad thing that he likes cars? There isn't a problem with that( unless he likes Toyota's :p ;) ).

[ZachsMacDaddy]

Do you guys think the ad agency (Crispin Porter + Bogusky) have already found this thread?

I'm honestly looking forward to being entertained by what they come up with and then Apple's response. This should be fun. Was there ever an animated celebrity death match between Ballmer and Jobs?

Now THAT'S a good commercial idea. I can actually picture that one in my head. With Seinfeld as the announcer for the match it would actually be a good commercial.

Too bad it would be a Ballmer win since MS would be the source of the ad. But it would be funny anyways.

[janstett]

What exactly is there to be scared about with a comedian who hasn't had anything that people paid any attention to in the last decade?

You're kidding, right?

yet people fawned over Carlin

[RaZaK]

M$ Exec says, "Software out there is made to be compatible with your whole life."

Right like Vista, which was compatible with everyone's life by "encouraging" you to buy new HW due to device driver problems and requiring upgrades to take advantage of all the OS features. Yes, I understand. Thanks M$ :rolleyes:

Also, I love Seinfeld, but MS doesn't want to seem "stodgy and oldster" by hiring a 90s icon? Yes, it will work! BTW, only $10 million to Seinfeld? What happened to the other $290 million? Was that the budget for that Mojave BS? lol

Who makes these PR disaster decisions at M$? I think the $300 million would have been put to better use by just bribing people to buy Vista instead of jumping ship to Mac.

[IgnatiusTheKing]

For all the people bemoaning Microsoft's apparent complete miss of the target demographic of 18-25 year olds with washed up Jerry Seinfeld, did you ever stop to think for a moment that maybe Seinfeld is exactly who they want?

I had marketing as a minor in college. Young people don't have money to spend as they don't have jobs or if they do they are low paying. So who are they targeting? The parents in their 40s and 50s who control the purse strings, who are the ones who fondly remember Seinfeld like it was just yesterday.

Let me put it this way, how many of you youngsters in your teens and early 20s actually paid for your Mac? If your parents paid for them, then consider how an advertiser would reach THEM, not YOU. IMO Microsoft is looking to short-circuit the "Mac is cool" wave amongst the young by going directly to their financiers.

You must've skipped all your marketing classes, because when it comes to products that are supposed to be (or are trying to be) cool or trendy, you appeal to the kids, not the parents. The Seinfeld hire was specifically made by Microsoft to make them seem cooler to young people, according to the linked article.

Maybe they don't have any young people working for them anymore...

[Nym]

I read every page and decided to share my POV with you guys/gals

I think that those who say that most people below 30 don't know even know who Seinfeld are (from my experience) wrong.

I asked in my work place just right now:
"Who doesn't know who Seinfeld is?" and no one raised their hand!

Take into account that I live in Portugal (which is in Europe by the way) and that we're talking about a USA icon, and still everyone here knows who he is.

I for one will not jump to conclusions, I'd rather wait and actually see the ads before saying that they will fail. I'm 24 years old and I've always found Seinfeld funny, on the other hand... Microsoft's marketing team always end up shooting themselves in the foot (remember the flaming bird Zune ad, WTF?).
So, my only doubts about this ad exist because Microsoft has always been terrible at advertisement, which is different than saying that Seinfeld sucks or that the ads will suck because of him being on them.

And by the way, If I disliked every celebrity/known figure who likes cars/bikes/houses/jewelry/expensive stuff I would probably hate them all, in fact, I bet that our dear Steve'o still drives a Pinto to Apple campus everyday :D. Probably... Not.

[applecybergirl]

From my recent experiences with pc's and that certain well i won't say operating system (it only gets me so angry) it would be much better if Microsoft spent their cash on improving their software . No wonder I am now a mac girl its like death by chocolate compared to drowning in sewage and thats all i have to say on the matter. Seinfeld or mac mmmmm mac homage to homer. :D

[Les Kern]

While the TV show Seinfeld was arguably the funniest sitcom ever, Seinfeld himself was far less than funny. Have you seen his standup routines? No, he surrounded himself with brilliant actors like George. But Gates is no George. Hell, he's not even a Steinbrenner.

[tgildred]

If this has been already posted, I apologize, but just saw this: http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9113218

If nothing else, the ads might be fun to watch, whether or not they have the desired effect. As long as they don't feel like "attack ads." Which I feel is the weak point--at times--of the Get a Mac ads.

[adiosjefe]

People care way too much about this crap. So what if Microsoft hired Jerry Seinfeld to do their ads. Good for them. They will probably be better than the Apple ads. Apple's last few commercials have been horrible.

Also, the Vista "problems" are way over exaggerated. I use Vista at work and it is rock solid. I am constantly installing and testing software and hardware on it and everything works fine. At first there were problems but now everything is fine. It's not like Leopard didn't have it's share problems when it first came out. Most of the people here who bash Vista have probably never used it.

[MickdyMickdyMAC]

If this has been already posted, I apologize, but just saw this: http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9113218

If nothing else, the ads might be fun to watch, whether or not they have the desired effect. As long as they don't feel like "attack ads." Which I feel is the weak point--at times--of the Get a Mac ads.

Thanks for that. I've always really enjoyed Gondry's work, especially his videos.

I honestly don't care whether this campaign is hugely successful or an epic FAIL. It's all very interesting to me and I just want to be entertained really.
$300million + hottest ad agency in country + Seinfeld + Gondry = good chance of entertainment. Oh, I forgot to add MS in that equation but.....

Oh, and spending $300mil to iron out any issues with Vista instead,.....you know what they say about polishing a turd, lol.

[tgildred]

Thanks for that. I've always really enjoyed Gondry's work, especially his videos.

I honestly don't care whether this campaign is hugely successful or an epic FAIL. It's all very interesting to me and I just want to be entertained really.
$300million + hottest ad agency in country + Seinfeld + Gondry = good chance of entertainment. Oh, I forgot to add MS in that equation but.....

Oh, and spending $300mil to iron out any issues with Vista instead,.....you know what they say about polishing a turd, lol.

Haha, yes. I've been thinking this is a bit like the Chewbacca Defense.

"Here, look at the monkey. Look at the silly monkey!" :)



(I'm exaggerating for the sake of referencing the Chewbacca Defense)

[janstett]

Pity poor Microsoft, always playing catch up

Ever watched a Blu-Ray disc on your Mac? Thought not... Hell MS could stick a fork in that wound for some effect.

Now here come the reasons Blu Ray isn't important, HD isn't important, yadda yadda yadda cover up for Apple's no-show to high def home video.

[janstett]

There is nothing in my post that would give the impression that I think Mac OS X is a "superior" OS ..... only that Vista is an "inferior" OS! That doesn't come from a bias in favor of everything Apple. Rather, it stems from being a very advanced Windows user since Windows 1.0 was first released in 1985. The more time one spends with a more technically advanced exposure to the Windows OS, the more one recognizes its overwhelming shortcomings.

Yes, Mac OS X is superior to Windows in many, many ways, but both have weaknesses. There's no such thing as a flawless OS. To fail to recognize the inherent advantages of a UNIX-based OS over a DOS-based OS is to either be technically naïve or in a serious state of denial.

I thought you said you'd been using Windows since 1.0 was released in 1985.

Clearly anyone who truly did would realize that none of the NT family OS are "DOS-based", starting with NT 3.1 in 1992, continuing with Windows 2000, Windows XP, and Windows Vista. Someone who didn't know such a basic piece of OS trivia may be in danger of being labelled "technically naive". ;)

[janstett]

You must've skipped all your marketing classes, because when it comes to products that are supposed to be (or are trying to be) cool or trendy, you appeal to the kids, not the parents. The Seinfeld hire was specifically made by Microsoft to make them seem cooler to young people, according to the linked article.


It's the parents pulling out the credit cards. Try again. The key is to make the parents think they are doing the right thing by satisfying their kids' need to be cool. This is why I'll never understand why people go crazy trying to appeal to the teenage and 18-24 demographics because they haven't got any money. The reason is because the younger demographics are good little consumer robots who buy everything that flashed on TV while older folks tend to hold onto their money (retirement and all) and make more informed buying decisions.

Anyway, like I said, MS isn't trying to compete with Apple's hip image; they're trying to do an end-around and appeal to the people who control the purse strings.

[GGJstudios]

I thought you said you'd been using Windows since 1.0 was released in 1985.
Clearly anyone who truly did would realize that none of the NT family OS are "DOS-based", starting with NT 3.1 in 1992, continuing with Windows 2000, Windows XP, and Windows Vista. Someone who didn't know such a basic piece of OS trivia may be in danger of being labelled "technically naive". ;)
Windows had its foundation in DOS. Mac OS X had its foundation in UNIX. That's the point I was making. I'm well aware that Windows has, over the years, taken on more of the functions of DOS, beginning with file management, etc. However, even today, you when you launch Command Prompt in Windows, you're looking at DOS. You apparently missed the whole point of the post in your hasty attempt to nit-pick. The point is, a UNIX-based system has a better foundation than Windows, which is the core of many of Windows' weaknesses.

[GGJstudios]

And he's into cars, which is always a turn off to me.
I've never been a fan of Seinfeld. He's just not funny to me. But to dislike someone because they have a hobby you're not into???
Not just cars, but Porsches, and really expensive Porsches like the $500,000 Carrera GT in particular. Even some car guys dislike him for that.
That's not dislike.... that's jealousy.

[SylarDX]

Awww I thought he was cool enough to Own a mac?

[The Flashing Fi]

There is nothing in my post that would give the impression that I think Mac OS X is a "superior" OS .....

Are you friggin serious? You say this, but then you go on to say the following:

Yes, Mac OS X is superior to Windows

Yup, that sure is nothing that leaves me with the impression that you don't think Mac OS X is a superior OS. :rolleyes:

I honestly don't care what you think of Vista. This is a Mac forum. What else should I expect? Some of the bandwagon hate is extremely sickening, but it's their choices.

[dsnort]

.....I bet that our dear Steve'o still drives a Pinto to Apple campus everyday :D. Probably... Not.

I would imagine Steve has his pinto flown to and fro daily on his private C5 Galaxy! ;)

Anyway, like I said, MS isn't trying to compete with Apple's hip image; they're trying to do an end-around and appeal to the people who control the purse strings.

Uh Huh. Just try sending your kid to school wearing Sears Tuff Skin jeans when all the other kids are wearing Levi's.

And here's a fun one. Buy your daughter a "Betsy Boop" doll when what she really wanted was an "American Girl". ( If you're not familiar, an "American Girl" doll is a "Betsy Boop" with a story and a $75 price increase.)

Mom and Dad may control the purse strings, but the kids usually get what they want.

[GGJstudios]

Are you friggin serious? You say this, but then you go on to say the following:

Yup, that sure is nothing that leaves me with the impression that you don't think Mac OS X is a superior OS. :rolleyes:

I honestly don't care what you think of Vista. This is a Mac forum. What else should I expect? Some of the bandwagon hate is extremely sickening, but it's their choices.

Saying that one thing is superior to another is a valid statement, based on facts. Saying that something is superior, in general, implying that it is without faults or flaws, is arrogant and rarely accurate.

You assume that, because someone is in this forum, they are mindless Mac zealots and unthinking Windows bashers. My disdain for Windows comes from over 20 years of using it, NOT from sitting in the "Mac camp" and throwing stones over a fence at something I don't understand or have no experience with.

I agree that there are a few in this forum who display the "Mac is perfect" attitude, but don't make the mistake of assuming that everyone here is the same.

..If you're not familiar, an "American Girl" doll is a "Betsy Boop" with a story and a $75 price increase.....
I don't have to be familiar with dolls to know it's "Betty Boop (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betty_Boop)", not "Betsy Boop", but I'm sure that's what you meant. :)

[Firefly2002]

Exactly! He was a mac user when mac's weren't cool. How are they going to play that off?

Macs have always been cool ~_~

[rorycornell]

Two has beens

[seashellz]

I think most of the target demographic will say "Jerry WHO?"
It was a 'grown up' urban NY city show to begin with-which targeted 25-45
year olds. Those people are OUT of MS demographic target, as these people are now 45-65 years old-with a few exceptions;
I never watched the show when running because I thought it was trendy yuppy BS. AFTER it was cancelled and ran every night did I start watching it.
But now that its been re-runned to death-I dont see it listed much

You dont take this kind of action if "youve got nothing to worry about"
And then the new "Try out the new OS (i forget ) test-which is just a double blind pepsi-vs pepsi test. Which is really just VISTA....ODD to say the least
You dont do THAT either, unless sales are down in the toilet


Jerry WHO?

[SheriffParker]

And it was hugely hyped and cost 150 million. So it LOST money. Losing money is not "very good".

No. It didn't lose money. Bee Movie Worldwide Box Office Earnings: $287,080,562

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=beemovie.htm

[tmelvin]

People care way too much about this crap. So what if Microsoft hired Jerry Seinfeld to do their ads. Good for them. They will probably be better than the Apple ads. Apple's last few commercials have been horrible.

Also, the Vista "problems" are way over exaggerated. I use Vista at work and it is rock solid. I am constantly installing and testing software and hardware on it and everything works fine. At first there were problems but now everything is fine. It's not like Leopard didn't have it's share problems when it first came out. Most of the people here who bash Vista have probably never used it.

Speak for yourself. I work in a corporate environment, and did BETA testing for all the MS OS'es from 3.11 up to and including VISTA. Of all those, only Windows 2000 and XP were decent enough to keep in a business setting. I could at least get a few years out of a PC with those 2 OSes'. I can't say the same for VISTA. Not to mention all the incompatibilities with business applications [CRM/ERP/Payroll/Etc.] that keep the $$$ flowing. No thanks...

[SFStateStudent]

Isn't that the guy who got into trouble for the rant at that comedy club? LOL Just kidding... They'll probably can Seinfeld and go with Richards, b/c we all know Seinfeld is a Mac lover, not a PC fighter.

[macshill]

They should have gotten comedian George Lopez. He's more current than Jerry Seinfeld. Not more hip, but more current. Plus, they used a Mac on his sitcom in the kitchen... and they actually used it!

[jordo]

Apple already did:

131102
iPod (http://www.benmcgann-is-a-geek.com/applesswitchads/will-ferrell-ipod.html)

131103
Santa (http://www.benmcgann-is-a-geek.com/applesswitchads/will-ferrell-santa-switch.html)

131104
Parfait Switch (http://www.benmcgann-is-a-geek.com/applesswitchads/will-ferrell-switch.html)

Um, duh. M$ copies Apple, but couldn't get Ferrell so they got Seinfeld. It was a joke.

[macshill]

No sense letting a perfectly good Mac go to waste. Go ahead, Jerry, be a re-gifter! :D :apple: :p

[The Flashing Fi]

Saying that one thing is superior to another is a valid statement, based on facts.

What you said was an opinion though.

[GGJstudios]

What you said was an opinion though.

Not true. If you take the time to search the forums (and a host of other unbiased review sites), you'll find dozens and dozens of examples where the Mac OS is more secure, more efficient, better performing, etc. than Windows. My statement is based on fact, not opinion.

[janstett]

Windows had its foundation in DOS. Mac OS X had its foundation in UNIX. That's the point I was making. I'm well aware that Windows has, over the years, taken on more of the functions of DOS, beginning with file management, etc. However, even today, you when you launch Command Prompt in Windows, you're looking at DOS. You apparently missed the whole point of the post in your hasty attempt to nit-pick. The point is, a UNIX-based system has a better foundation than Windows, which is the core of many of Windows' weaknesses.

OK, apparently you are "fronting" on your Windows knowledge and obviously you are not a "Windows power user since 1.0". Let me give you a brief history lesson.

There are two branches of the Windows family tree. The Windows 95 branch and the Windows NT branch. It's very analogous to OSX and the previous OS like OS9.

Windows was initially a shell on top of DOS (in the 1.x/2.x days). Towards the end of the 2.x days they introduced the extended and protected modes that took away more and more of the work from DOS. That's what most people were using in the 3.0/3.1 days and by 95/98/ME DOS was just used as a bootloader and not really used by Windows. But there was some justification to say it was "built on DOS". This was the "Windows 95" branch of the Windows family tree -- Windows 1.0, Windows 2.0, Windows 3.0, Windows 3.1, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows ME. That line died with Windows ME in 2000.

The other branch of the Windows family tree is the NT branch. Windows NT began life as OS/2 3.0, and it was built from the beginning to be cross platform, preemptive, multithreaded, multiprocessor aware -- remember what sad state Mac OS was in in 1989 compared to this. It was built from the ground up by Dave Cutler, the brains behind DEC's VMS operating system. In fact if NT's design is based on anything, it's based on VMS's design. It became Windows NT 3.1 by the time it was released in 1992. This went through NT 3.1, 3.5, 4.0, Windows 2000, Windows XP, and Windows Vista, and has seen life on x86, Intel N10, Dec Alpha, Mips, PowerPC, Itanium, and x64 processors. This is NOT, I repeat NOT, hinged on DOS in any way, shape or form. When you launch a command prompt in any of these operating systems, you are NOT looking at DOS. I can go into detail to drive this point into the ground if you would like. Most people forget, but I'm sure you remember since you're a power user since Windows 1.0, after all, but Windows NT family operating systems used to run on more than X86 -- Intel N10, Dec Alpha, MIPS, Itanium, x64, and even PowerPC had versions of Windows NT. How can that be possible if it's built on DOS?

I don't think you understand enough about how operating systems are designed or how they work to say that Unix unilaterally is a better foundation than Windows (especially since you seem to think a Vista command prompt = DOS). First, OSX is based off of Berkeley Unix (which is the black sheep of the Unix family tree), the majority of Unix and Linux systems are based on the AT&T System V branch of that tree; second, Unix itself is ancient (it was invented at Bell Labs in the late 1960s) and the design reflects a lot of 1970s thinking. The Windows NT family operating systems go back to 1989 which is far more recent.

Both have evolved; a modern Unix has evolved over its Bell Labs origins, and Windows Vista has evolved over its VMS origins (note I said VMS and not DOS).

I'm not trying to defend Windows, but I know a lot about operating system history and if you're going to say OSX does something better than Windows based on an OS design decision, pony up with an argument, don't just make a nebulous claim and then speed away.

[jmadlena]

...This is why I'll never understand why people go crazy trying to appeal to the teenage and 18-24 demographics because they haven't got any money...

We seem to have enough money to buy iPods and iPhones... I think you need to revaluate your view of 18-24 year olds. Some of us have jobs, you know. And some of us can save money for things we want.

My dad would have preferred that I got a $400 Dell for school, but I said no thank you, saved my money and bought a MacBook Pro.

Point is, more people than ever are buying macs because of the image that Apple produces (also, the superior OS, but they don't usually know a lot about that). If Microsoft is trying to get in on that area of the market, Seinfield and marketing to parents isn't the way to go.

Microsoft knows that the college kids of today are the parents of tomorrow, and what do you think they, as parents, will buy their kids? Macs, because that is what they used in school. Apple goes for where the puck will be, not where it is, and Microsoft is catching on to that. Finally.

EDIT:

...First, OSX is based off of Berkeley Unix (which is the black sheep of the Unix family tree); second, Unix itself is ancient (it was invented at Bell Labs in the late 1960s) and the design reflects a lot of 1970s thinking. The Windows NT family operating systems go back to 1989 which is far more recent...

And Unix was designed for use with multiple users and security in mind. From what I can tell, Windows (NT branch) was not. Everything is mixed together in a rather foolish way in Windows. At least compared to the Unix style of architecture. I don't care if Windows' foundation was more 'recent', it isn't as modern as the NeXTSTEP foundation of OS X.

[BongoBanger]

And Unix was designed for use with multiple users and security in mind. From what I can tell, Windows (NT branch) was not. Everything is mixed together in a rather foolish way in Windows. At least compared to the Unix style of architecture. I don't care if Windows' foundation was more 'recent', it isn't as modern as the NeXTSTEP foundation of OS X.

I want you to explain that statement in detail because you're way off track.

[janstett]

We seem to have enough money to buy iPods and iPhones... I think you need to revaluate your view of 18-24 year olds. Some of us have jobs, you know. And some of us can save money for things we want.

That's all very nice. However, it's simple demographics.

Most 18 year olds do not earn six figures, own a home, and drive a Mercedes.

If you break it down and look at statistics, it's pretty obvious that people just graduating high school and college are strapped for cash. They're likely to owe tens of thousands of dollars in student loans and be earning at the bottom of the payscale, and either live at home with mom and dad or rent, few own a home and the few that do won't have any equity in it. You don't need demographic studies, common sense should tell you that. People who can afford expensive luxury items are generally older professionals whose children have left the house.


EDIT:



And Unix was designed for use with multiple users and security in mind. From what I can tell, Windows (NT branch) was not. Everything is mixed together in a rather foolish way in Windows. At least compared to the Unix style of architecture. I don't care if Windows' foundation was more 'recent', it isn't as modern as the NeXTSTEP foundation of OS X.

Of course NT was designed with multiple users and security in mind. The big problem with multiple users that still plagues Vista is most app writers don't design with this in mind, but that isn't Windows' fault. It just isn't as elegant as OSX is about it. I give Apple a TON of credit for making the Unix foundation of OSX stay hidden so well. If you've ever spent any time trying to use a Linux such as Fedora or Ubuntu, despite all the smoothing of rough spots they've done, you always have to resort to being a console jockey and reading MAN pages to get things done. Apple gets a plethora of admiration from me for putting the Mac OS on top of Unix and keeping Unix out of the way.

[GGJstudios]

...Let me give you a brief history lesson....
Thanks for the Wikipedia-style "history lesson" and the trip down memory lane on all the releases of Windows I've used, but I'm intimately familiar with the two "branches" of the Windows family and the evolution of both Windows and Mac OS. And no, I'm not "fronting" anything, but have no intention of boring everyone with details of my computer experience, beginning with operating system programming and optimization on IBM mainframes in the early 70s and moving forward, or the computer hardware/software/consulting companies I've owned throughout the years.

For most, my point was made clearly, although I obviously erred in being too over-simplistic for someone who wants to nit-pick the details. It doesn't take going into tedious technical detail for someone to recognize the vast differences in Mac OS vs Windows. Look at security. Look at permissions. Look at viruses. Look at application installation and removal. Look at operating system overhead. Look at the number of "patches" and "fixes" necessary. Look at ease of use. Look at device compatibility. Look at networking. I could go on and on.

The point remains that Mac OS X, on a fundamental level, is a "better" operating system than Windows. You can argue all you want on the details, but it won't change the facts. Only Jerry Seinfeld can do that! :D

[adiosjefe]

I find it interesting that people blame Microsoft because 3rd party apps don't work in Vista. When apps didn't work when Leopard came out I don't recall people calling for Apple to fix it, they waited on the 3rd party developer to fix their own application. SuperDuper didn't work correctly for 4 months after Leopard came out. I don't think Apple raised a finger to fix the problem, why is it expected from Microsoft.

[TomTomGPS]

I think most of the target demographic will say "Jerry WHO?"
It was a 'grown up' urban NY city show to begin with-which targeted 25-45
year olds. Those people are OUT of MS demographic target, as these people are now 45-65 years old-with a few exceptions;
Um, the show was definitely targeted at those 18 to 34. It has gained a new generation of fans with reruns, the internet, and dvds.

Just about everyone I know knows who Jerry Seinfeld is and have seen at least a couple Seinfeld episodes.

That's at my high school, friends at other schools, college friends, etc. Get a clue.

I never watched the show when running because I thought it was trendy yuppy BS. AFTER it was cancelled and ran every night did I start watching it.
But now that its been re-runned to death-I dont see it listed much
What the hell are you talking about? The show wasn't canceled, Jerry Seinfeld decided it was time to call the show quits. It's regularly in the top ten reruns, and is shown on TBS, Fox, etc.

Give me a break. Just because you're one of the few that didn't like Seinfeld doesn't change the fact it is the most successful sitcom of all time.

[adiosjefe]

Speak for yourself. I work in a corporate environment, and did BETA testing for all the MS OS'es from 3.11 up to and including VISTA. Of all those, only Windows 2000 and XP were decent enough to keep in a business setting. I could at least get a few years out of a PC with those 2 OSes'. I can't say the same for VISTA. Not to mention all the incompatibilities with business applications [CRM/ERP/Payroll/Etc.] that keep the $$$ flowing. No thanks...

How is it Microsoft's responsibility to fix 3rd party business applications? Isn't that the responsibility of the 3rd party developers?

[The Flashing Fi]

Look at security.

Arguably, Mac OS X's security to some extent is better than Vista's.


Look at permissions.
Windows has permissions as well. You just have to right click on a file, go under the security tab, and you'll see the permissions. For the most part though, for much of Window's history, it was there for looks. Windows Vista's UAC attempts to implement a Unix-like implementation, by having every user, except the administrator (which is hidden by default, like in many Linux distros) having less permissions on system files (in XP and before, as long as you gave yourself administrative privileges, which is a default for the first user to be created, you could modify system files on a whim, as well as anyone who hacked the PC or any rogue programs). However, permissions are certainly there, and the implementation in Vista and Mac OS X are very similar. The reason why UAC is so much of a pain, is because many programs are needlessly needing to be ran with higher privileges, a problem with the software developers, not Windows. UAC is actually an attempt to fix the way developers create Windows programs.

But don't think that Mac OS X's permission setup is "better" than Windows. I easily messed up Leopard's permissions on my Macbook Pro while trying to change my hard drive's icon. 3 hours after repairing my disk's permissions, I eventually gave up. Weeks later, I attempted again using the same method that I did before and succeeded (but I used a different icon). Fixing the problem was easy, but it was time consuming and on the frustrating side. It's also not unusual for Mac OS X's permission's to become corrupt (usually something corrupts it, like the user (me), or some rogue program).

Look at viruses.

A downfall to having the majority of the market share. Don't be naive and think that Mac OS X is invulnerable to viruses.

Look at application installation and removal.

Honestly, not that big of a deal. Both work pretty darn easy for me. But, Window's registry is a pain when removing files, since many software companies who do these program installers and uninstallers, do a half-arsed job with the uninstallers (since they leave crap behind). That's the beauty of programs such as CCleaner.

Look at operating system overhead.

Alright. I'll open up Activity monitor in Leopard and tell you what I see.

The system hovers between 1% (I haven't seen it go below 1) and 3%, usually right in the middle though, for the CPU. There are 50 processes (the only program I have opened is Activity Monitor and Finder).

In Vista, right now. My CPU usage is hovering between 1-2% if I'm not doing anything like I was doing in Mac OS X. I have 51 processes running (including Firefox, Rocket Dock, as well as nTune (which I have no use for, so I should probably get rid of it later). These processes are included in the total.

For memory, in Vista, 36% of my memory is in use. This is out of 2048 megs of RAM (2 gigs).

In Mac OS X, I have 651.64 MB in use, out of 2 gigs, which is 31% (keep in mind, I have more stuff that I'm actually using in the background in Vista than I do in Mac OS X, whereas, I don't have Firefox running (which is currently using 71.98 MB) alone)).

Also, the kernel design of Mac OS X and Windows is different. Pure and simple. While Mac OS X has a lot of it's underpinnings from Unix, it also has underpinnings from the Mach Kernel (which was supposed to be a replacement for the kernel in BSD). You can run all the benchmarks you want (which I've always seen as useless, generally when trying to compare OSes). But the systems are different (notice, I didn't say whether one is better than the other, they're different, so one may do better in certain tasks over the other).

Look at the number of "patches" and "fixes" necessary.

That really doesn't say much for anything. Windows and Apple have different philosophies for updating their OS. Windows basically puts them out as needed, whereas Apple decides to release a whole bunch of fixes in one release. Also, Microsoft supports their OS a lot longer than Apple supports their older OS (they pretty much drop it as soon as it's replaced).

Look at ease of use.

That's subjective. There could never be a "winner." It's a matter of opinion.

Look at device compatibility.

Far more devices work on Windows than on Mac OS X due to there being more Windows users. Most major companies supports both, but some of the obscure companies do not. Somethings that work on both, may not be fully functional under Mac OS X (such as multi-button mice or keyboards with multiple keys).

Also, for video cards, in Windows, you have different drivers you can try (even custom ones that can improve performance). If you're a gamer, this is a pretty big deal (since some drivers may have problems with certain gamers). In Mac OS X, you're at Apple's mercy.

Look at networking.

I've never had a problem with either Mac OS X or Windows. Then again, I don't deploy computers in a company setting. Networking Mac OS X and Windows Vista/XP was pretty easy, as well as networking Vista and Vista and XP and Vista. But like I said, this is with like 3 computers, max.

[MacTraveller]

If Jerry Seinfeld is one of the headlining stars, who's below him? I'd love to see an ad with Jerry Seinfeld, John Stamos, and the guy who played Erkel, but I'd love it for all the reasons Microsoft doesn't want me to love it. ;)


After the Microsoft Seinfeld ads are shown, the next ad will star Mary-Kate and Ashley Olsen twins.

[Matto1020]

Hey guys,

As silly as it sounds to get celebrity endorsments for Microsoft, you have to realize that the agency who is doing the campaign is probably the most renowned ad agency in the states. I am currently a student at an Ad School now and after studying ads from different agencies around the world, Crispin Porter (the agency now handling Microsoft) has produced nothing but outstanding work most of the time.

I hate to say it too, since I was a Apple convert last summer and will never touch a PC again...but I can see a brilliant marketing campaign for Microsoft coming. I honestly can't wait to see what CP&B have their sleeves for Microsoft! :D

[mossimo]

So let me guess... Apple = OS Nazi

Apple: You want different hardware? No computer for you!!

LOL

[(L)]

That's all very nice. However, it's simple demographics.

Most 18 year olds do not earn six figures, own a home, and drive a Mercedes.

If you break it down and look at statistics, it's pretty obvious that people just graduating high school and college are strapped for cash. They're likely to owe tens of thousands of dollars in student loans and be earning at the bottom of the payscale, and either live at home with mom and dad or rent, few own a home and the few that do won't have any equity in it. You don't need demographic studies, common sense should tell you that. People who can afford expensive luxury items are generally older professionals whose children have left the house.


Macs may have an image as luxury items, but it may come as news to you that you don't need to make "six figures, own a home, and drive a Mercedes" to afford one. Common sense should tell you that demographics isn't everything, and in the first place your understanding of the market is naive and illogical.

You made a couple decent points in that argument about UNIX being as great as people think in their "nebulous" imaginations, but saying this kind of completely misguided thing and prefacing it with "it's simple demographics" ... you appear to be a fish out of water in this category. What's more, you give me the impression that you're the kind of person who is quicker to criticize others than himself.

You should either stick to what you know (which is apparently ancient geek history), or take a moment to think about what you are saying. After all, some young college student says he can afford a Mac, and you tell him he can't afford luxury items like a Mercedes? Captain Obvious and Irrelevant Woman must be your parents. You are my hero! :)

EDIT:
I had marketing as a minor in college. Young people don't have money to spend as they don't have jobs or if they do they are low paying.

I just found this. I burst out laughing at "marketing as a minor." I guess we were all supposed to bow down in awe at that one! :D That explains the -- "It's demographics! Not just demographics, but simple demographics! I know, I learned at the College!" -- attitude.

Look, I don't disagree with your point that Microsoft is not necessarily targeting young people -- I know they would like to say that about the Zune as well, but regardless. Still, in this day and age, I wouldn't go about trying to sound authoritative with a minor in marketing. Minor in marketing, so what! You either talk sense or you don't, minor, major, PhD, whatever. Good colleges should teach so that grads actually understand, not just declare "it's demographics!" and delude themselves.

[crunchb3rry]

Uhm...isn't Jerry Seinfeld kind of irrelevant now? His standup isn't really that spectacular. The guy even buys all the empty seats at his shows so the newspapers report that he performed to a sold-out audience.

If it were not for that Bee movie, I'd figure he quit the entertainment biz to become a monk.

I guess it isn't so bad. Certainly better than Justin Long. That guy needs to go on a long walk off a short dock with Shia LeBouf, and maybe the Verizon guy.

[Pikemann Urge]

Not just cars, but Porsches, and really expensive Porsches like the $500,000 Carrera GT in particular. Even some car guys dislike him for that.
That car is awesome. Porsches are great examples of engineering excellence although I admit not as sexy as Ferraris or classy as Astons.


As silly as it sounds to get celebrity endorsments for Microsoft, you have to realize that the agency who is doing the campaign is probably the most renowned ad agency in the states.
I've looked into advertising since I was about 18 and I kind of get what industry it is. I'm in the Ogilvy camp and don't subscribe to creativity or celebrity endorsements.

I'm not saying you're wrong or anything absolute like that, but it's not as simple as you make out. CP+B is basically today's Chiat/Day. Some great successes, some failures.

[satcomer]

A 54 year old isn't a stodgy oldster??!!

Tell that to the 13 girl/boy that thinks that 54 year old is just plain creepy and see what they tell you. FACE it man you are old.

[macshill]

Tell that to the 13 girl/boy that thinks that 54 year old is just plain creepy and see what they tell you. FACE it man you are old.

Yeah, and that's why they don't have 54-year-old men going up to random boys and girls in the street saying: "Psst. Wanna buy an Mac? (*opens trenchcoat*)"

But this is Jerry Seinfeld we're talking about here. And there's plenty of mid-teens to people in their early-twenties who say they and their friends watch 'Seinfeld' reruns (either for the first time or for a second or third or fourth time) saying they enjoy it; so there's a connection. Those 'Friends' were in their late-twenties and now are pushing forty, but they still draw a crowd.

Yeah, they (the intended target auidence) get that some time has elapsed, but they still make a connection to their younger, primer selves and could listen to what they have to say.

[Hmac]

This is indeed a problem for Apple. Jerry Seinfeld's ads will easily have every bit as much an impact on Apple as the Zune had.

[SDLSteve]

Yea, Seinfeld is so 90's.

[Prof.]

This is indeed a problem for Apple. Jerry Seinfeld's ads will easily have every bit as much an impact on Apple as the Zune had.
I disagree. Seinfeld is a has-been loser. Very few ppl, under the age of 17 and are the ones who have their parents buy them iPods and Macs for school, even know who Jerry Seinfeld is. I'm 19 and I barely know who he is. Besides, IMO, Jerry Seinfeld doesn't have the "Cool" element to help attract more/younger buyers to the Microsoft/Windows brand. My generation and future generations are going to be drawn to the Apple brand cuz they do have cool looking computers/user interfaces but above all, they just work.

[macshill]

I hear "cool, hip, young"... like the three go hand in hand w/ teens and 20's. You can be in your 30's and all three. You'll probably have more income and more stability and vision of your future. Who says Microsoft can't go after the 30's and 40's crowd who watched 'Seinfeld' and enjoyed it?

I'm 33 and eagerly awaited a new 'Seinfeld' eppy; the last 3 years especially. I enjoy reruns (I'm more of a middle to late series man).

Now that said, a celebrity... ANY celebrity, WON'T make me buy their product. I just don't care (it doesn't move me to accept their message and to buy).

edit: You think those those self-pitying "emo" kids (teens) are cool and hip? :rolleyes: (Corporate-wise,) Figuring out the emotions and the buying patterns of those confused crowd would be money well wasted. Go give it to a 28-year-old who more than likely is more chartered to a path somewhere and who is more familiar w/ Jerry Seinfeld.

http://i13.tinypic.com/2m4sidz.jpg

[Hmac]

This is indeed a problem for Apple. Jerry Seinfeld's ads will easily have every bit as much an impact on Apple as the Zune had.

I disagree. Seinfeld is a has-been loser. Very few ppl, under the age of 17 and are the ones who have their parents buy them iPods and Macs for school, even know who Jerry Seinfeld is. I'm 19 and I barely know who he is. Besides, IMO, Jerry Seinfeld doesn't have the "Cool" element to help attract more/younger buyers to the Microsoft/Windows brand. My generation and future generations are going to be drawn to the Apple brand cuz they do have cool looking computers/user interfaces but above all, they just work.I see that, sometimes, irony is lost on "your generation" :D



(pssst...the Zune had NO impact on Apple other than to help put Microsoft in a position where they need has-been comedians to desperately help revive their brand.)


.

[janstett]

That car is awesome. Porsches are great examples of engineering excellence although I admit not as sexy as Ferraris or classy as Astons.

Yes, it is. At $.5 million, it better be. Seinfield is actually very into cars, but Porsches and ONLY Porsches. In fact someone had posted one of his old cars for sale on eBay, and it was an attrocity, something bad like purple with a blinding interior and matching seat belts, I forget the exact things he had done but it was horrid. Jerry has a big collection of 911s (from classic to new) that he keeps in a NYC garage.

The problem I have with it, as a car enthusiast, is the obsession with Porsches and nothing else. Sure, they're great (I own a Porsche myself) but how about something, anything, else? For that Carerra GT he could have three Ferrari F430s. I think Jerry, when he was poor, locked onto Porsche as a status symbol and never let go.

[(L)]

I see that, sometimes, irony is lost on "your generation" :D

That's not irony, but sarcasm. FAIL

[janstett]

You should either stick to what you know (which is apparently ancient geek history), or take a moment to think about what you are saying. After all, some young college student says he can afford a Mac, and you tell him he can't afford luxury items like a Mercedes? Captain Obvious and Irrelevant Woman must be your parents. You are my hero! :)


Hey Captian Snarky, there's one simple way to answer the question, and that would be to know what percentage of people under 24 buy their own computer and what percentage have it bought for them. Most of us have a good idea just how lopsided that ratio is.

[janstett]

Look, I don't disagree with your point that Microsoft is not necessarily targeting young people -- I know they would like to say that about the Zune as well, but regardless. Still, in this day and age, I wouldn't go about trying to sound authoritative with a minor in marketing. Minor in marketing, so what! You either talk sense or you don't, minor, major, PhD, whatever. Good colleges should teach so that grads actually understand, not just declare "it's demographics!" and delude themselves.

And I'm assuming with your blathering that you either have no education or you have some irrelevant liberal arts background in 16th century Gaelic folk dancing. Demographics = facts and they're the first step in understanding who is likely to buy your product, who does buy your product, and who you would like to target your product towards. You don't sell 100 foot yachts to young couples renting apartments in Detroit. It's simple facts, product x sells a% to people who have a set of attributes, b% to people who have a different set of attributes, etc. In fact, in media such as radio, the most important factor is the demographic of the listener followed closely by the number of listeners. That's how they determine the advertising rates, they don't just make up a number and see if the advertiser goes for it.

And granted a minor in Marketing doesn't make me the most qualified person on the planet, however it does mean that I've at least cracked a few books on the subject and studied it at some depth greater than zero, which I'm wagering is more than you've done. So save your armchair hand grenades for something else.

I'm sure we can get some non-scientific data from anybody here who works in an Apple store, and this is the perfect time of year considering we're in the back-to-school frenzy. How many of the systems being sold right now are being purchased by parents and how many are being purchased by kids. Completely anecdotal and unscientific but enough to make the point.

[firefoxnx]

Maybe that (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mbukhari/2786896765/) not Seinfield can save Vista?

[janstett]

Thanks for the Wikipedia-style "history lesson" and the trip down memory lane on all the releases of Windows I've used, but I'm intimately familiar with the two "branches" of the Windows family and the evolution of both Windows and Mac OS.

Yet you say "to this day when you open a command prompt, DOS is there". That's clearly wrong, which means either you haven't been paying attention for the past 16 years, or you have no idea what it actually means and you think seeing a C:\> prompt means DOS is there. I'm guessing that you have only a superficial knowledge of operating systems based on this. Unless you want to discuss how the NT command processor and NTVDM.EXE actually work. Have you read any of the books on the architecture of NT specifically Custer/Soloman, cause I have.


For most, my point was made clearly, although I obviously erred in being too over-simplistic for someone who wants to nit-pick the details.

No, you made a claim that's flat out wrong on the most basic level. Windows is not based on DOS and has not been since Windows ME went off the market.


It doesn't take going into tedious technical detail for someone to recognize the vast differences in Mac OS vs Windows. Look at security. Look at permissions. Look at viruses. Look at application installation and removal. Look at operating system overhead. Look at the number of "patches" and "fixes" necessary. Look at ease of use. Look at device compatibility. Look at networking. I could go on and on.

OK, I'll look at each one of them and try to be brief. You can't just throw out the buzzwords and run.

Security: Mac OS puts up a dialog when it needs admin rights. Good move. Vista now does this, and in fact on too frequent of a basis (remember the "cancel or allow" Mac ads). The problem for Windows was that the original (Windows 95 branch) was unfortunately designed to assume a single user with admin rights. When they transitioned to NT, even though they supported user rights, a lot of old apps would break if they didn't have admin permissions. So NT had to bend, unfortunately. That's the app writer's fault for not making sure the app worked on NT when run by a limited user. But it's also Microsoft's fault for not forcing application writers to account for this. But today, Leopard and Vista are fairly equal on this point. Also, one could argue that NT Domains make it more robust than OSX. In other words, in large companies people log on with their domain account and have access to controlled network resources administered by a central authority without additional user logons as would be required by a Mac.

And come to think of it, my Thinkpad comes with a fingerprint reader that is accepted to be just as good as entering a password by the system, so I can grant admin permissions with a finger swipe.


Permissions: Well, for starters, my boot disc on my MacBook Pro has trashed permissions that cannot be repaired, how happy am I with that? I can't really see what your complaint is about permissions as both operating systems are fairly equal here. In fact Windows accounts for Domain user permissions here so I'd say advantage: Windows.


Viruses: Don't assume that a Mac can't get them. First, in my opinion we benefit from "security through obscurity" -- meaning since we're only 5% of the market, the evil Russian hackers can't be bothered to turn our machines into spam zombies. Second Windows has gotten better in this area, between IE7 being pretty good as far as exploits, and requiring the user to grant access to any rogue process. That's all it would require for a Mac virus. How does one get a virus? There are a few ways. The first would be a browser exploit. As I said IE7 is pretty good in this regard. There have been other exploits such as metafile or image file exploits that have been closed. The other way would be a trojan horse, a virus that hides inside a program that superficially is supposed to be useful. The Mac is not immune to that. If you download an application and it asks for admin permissions, you mindlessly grant it, don't you? Now what if that application was infected with a trojan horse? You just gave away your system. From this aspect, Windows and OSX (and Linux) are equally vulnerable. In fact, I'd say it's WORSE for OSX because it is after all based on BSD Linux and worse yet the SOURCE CODE FOR THE UNDERLYING OS, AKA DARWIN, IS OUT THERE FOR THE HACKERS TO SEE. At least with Windows, they don't get the OS source code. Again, the small installed base makes Windows the prime target for the virus exploiters.


Application installation: Yes I agree it's cool to be able to drag and drop your app to the trash. But it doesn't remove everthing (the prefs stay there and that's just as bad as having things left over in your registry on Windows). And on Windows everything is done through the add/remove programs, it's not that confusing. But I do like how you can move an app to another volume with OSX and it just works. I give OSX an edge here. Though I have to take points away because on Windows when you install an app it shows up on the Start menu, while on OSX *sometimes* it will show up on the dock, other times it will stay hidden in the app folder with no alias. This is something that confuses a lot of potential switchers, that the dock doesn't show you every application that's installed on your system and fishing around in the app folder doesn't make sense.


operating system overhead. As someone pointed out above, they're roughly equal. However, through seat of the pants I'd agree OSX is better under load.

My MacBook Pro:

Leopard at idle: 2-5%, 82 processes, 300 threads, 884 mb system memory used

Vista at idle: 0-3% CPU, 59 processes, 706 threads, 600 MB system memory used

Now granted this can vary, such as having items in startup and system daemons (e.g. I run Office on OSX not on Vista, Google desktop, quicksilver, etc.). But I'd say they're in the same ballpark. The best test would be a completely clean install of each with nothing supplemental installed.

And GOD himself admits that OSX has gotten too bloated, that's why Snow Leopard will not be adding new features but tightening up the operating system.

"patches" and "fixes" necessary. again I see them as roughly equal here. Are you telling me you never run Apple Software Update? OK, I'll take some points away from Windows for the annoying automatic restarts, that really irritates me to go to a machine that was unexpectedly rebooted overnight. But I'll take some points away from Apple for forcing us to pay $129 every 12-18 months for a "new" operating system that really isn't that new. Microsoft doesn't put out a service pack and claim it's a new operating system. Yet we'll be expected to pay $129 for Snow Leopard when it's just a fixed version of Leopard.


device compatibility. You're really not going there, are you? OK, Vista did upset a lot of people by not working properly with some older XP drivers. I'm stuck there with an HP printer. So I'll grant that. But it's countered by OSX not working at all with so many devices because they don't have OSX drivers. And I'll nip the "don't need driver discs" argument in the bud, because it's a lie. Most peripherals don't need install discs, but I can think of plenty that do, such as my RadioShark and my USB->SPDIF adapter.


networking. Yeah, networking... Like how Leopard completely broke my ability to get on my corporate wireless network but Tiger worked fine, and Apple still hasn't fixed it a year later. So all of us super-cool Mac users have to go from meeting to meeting with ETHERNET CABLES. HINT, APPLE: It's the 802.1x authentication. You broke it when Tiger came out and then fixed it, only you broke it again with Leopard. Or how you can't automatically remount a network share like you can in Windows, requiring you to to do the finder->go->connect to server every blessed time, that's great. Or how it doesn't work with Windows domains so you have to re-enter your domain account information every two seconds. Not saying OSX is bad, but I have a few pebbles in my shoe with that one.

[Hmac]

That's not irony, but sarcasm. FAIL

Yes...fail indeed.

One has to use a lot of smilies to clarify posts for the more...uh..."concrete" thinkers in online communication.



Let me rephrase so you and Prof. won't be confused...

"Jerry Seinfeld's ads for Microsoft will have little impact on Apple, just as the Zune had little impact on Apple".

[(L)]

Yes...fail indeed.

One has to use a lot of smilies to clarify posts for the more...uh..."concrete" thinkers in online communication.

Let me rephrase so you and Prof. won't be confused...

"Jerry Seinfeld's ads for Microsoft will have little impact on Apple, just as the Zune had little impact on Apple".

Thanks. Well, I wasn't confused, just nit-picking -- in fact, irony is what makes sarcasm tick, and the terms are not similes. However, I know what you mean about making things more "concrete."

[Quillz]

Not true. If you take the time to search the forums (and a host of other unbiased review sites), you'll find dozens and dozens of examples where the Mac OS is more secure, more efficient, better performing, etc. than Windows. My statement is based on fact, not opinion.
And if you take the time to search a host of other unbiased review sites, you'll find dozens and dozens of examples where Windows is more efficient, better performing, etc. than Mac OS X.

Thus, Windows vs. Mac OS X is a matter of personal preference and opinion.

[(L)]

Hey Captian Snarky, there's one simple way to answer the question[...]

What question is that? I agree with you about young people being less likely to buy their own Macs, but how is that relevant with your assertion about "six figure" incomes and "Mercedes"? Does calling me Captain Snarky serve as a substitute for explaining yourself?

And I'm assuming with your blathering that you either have no education or you have some irrelevant liberal arts background in 16th century Gaelic folk dancing. Demographics = facts and they're the first step in understanding whom a product is marketed towards. You don't sell 100 foot yachts to young couples renting apartments in Detroit.

About demographics. Speaking of facts, the group of people the product is marketed towards is called the target demographic. I didn't need a minor in the subject to know this, and getting coy about 100-foot yachts is just another variant of your proclivity towards the obvious and the irrelevant. What would be relevant is whether you might sell Macs to young people in general (Detroit or elsewhere), or to their parents. Again and again, you equate Macs, yachts, and Mercedes as luxury items. To use my own marketing knowledge, these products have different target demographics, and what's more, the targeted consumer income level is not at all the same. Even if I agree that parents might be being considered here, it is naïve to think that you only target the consumer if the end-user may be different. Whether we like it or not, everything from Power Rangers to dorm furniture has a certain target consumer demographic and a target end-user demographic, if you'll excuse my humble terminology, and hence advertisements reflect this split. So while you are certainly (in my opinion) on target with Seinfeld appealing to parents, you certainly can't think that's the full picture, right? Likewise, you should give jmadlena more credit, and you deserve no bonus points for your minor in marketing.

And granted a minor in Marketing doesn't make me the most qualified person on the planet, however it does mean that I've at least read some books in depth on the subject by professionals and studied it at some depth in a collegiate environment, which I'm wagering is more than you've done. So save your armchair hand grenades for something else.

Despite all your huffiness and hyperbole, just alluding to having read some books about your precious "demographics" in a "collegiate environment" doesn't make you queen of the universe, nor indeed do you succeed in rebutting my accusation that you don't talk sense. If you did, we wouldn't get just more of the same. I'm starting to think you hardly remember anything other than the word "demographics," and at any rate, having studied more marketing than I have doesn't help you when you're caught blowing hot air and are just plain wrong. Even if you went to my own alma mater, you still can't twist the fact that many young people can afford Macs (especially while parents pay for other bills), many of their parents can, and neither really need luxury spending like the Mercedes-buying demographic. To just admit getting carried away would have been what I would have done in your position, but we get more of the same hot air.

"Demographics = facts," "You don't sell 100 foot yachts to young couples renting apartments in Detroit," "I've at least read some books in depth on the subject by professionals".... If you are a college graduate, you surely must recognize that these sorts of statements fall short of what one might expect from even a decent student writing a paper! Or am I wrong, and at your alma mater, this sort of bull was acceptable?

I had marketing as a minor in college. Young people don't have money to spend as they don't have jobs or if they do they are low paying.

What was the purpose of the first sentence here? If you have such knowledge, tell me something I don't know, and I might well believe you. But if you are going to tell me common sense, you don't need to toot your own horn. Whats more, you having a minor in marketing doesn't mean that people like jmadlena might not have something to contribute. What irks me most is the condescending tone you took towards that young student. Good for him/her, saving for a Mac. Maybe some students can afford to, regardless of your lack of humility. And all because of a minor? You'd think it was a PhD!

[In response to jmadlena]That's all very nice. However, it's simple demographics.

Most 18 year olds do not earn six figures, own a home, and drive a Mercedes.

If you break it down and look at statistics, it's pretty obvious that people just graduating high school and college are strapped for cash.

I think it would be admirable to admit your mistake (which would make me regret my offensive attitude). Or, perhaps you just misspoke, and really do have something concrete to contribute from your knowledge of marketing, in which case I would thoroughly appreciate if you could explain how that wasn't just a load of hot air. Otherwise, it's nothing at all to be proud of.

As for me, I'm afraid I don't know anything of Gaelic studies, so I can't help you there, but I have studied some philosophy, so I can help you with your hot air. :) I was also taught that it's not the degree or the prestige that counts, but what earned these. You could take a lesson from my education, if you are mature enough.

[GGJstudios]

Security

Mac OS puts up a dialog when it needs admin rights. Good move. Vista now does this, and in fact on too frequent of a basis (remember the "cancel or allow" Mac ads).
Mac OS doesn't simply put up a dialog; it requires an administrator password. Vista doesn't. It only asks for "Cancel" or "Allow". A script could easily respond to Vista's UAC. In this regard, not only does Vista offer zero protection, it also is designed to annoy users (http://www.cnet.com.au/software/operatingsystems/0,239029541,339288150,00.htm) with so many of these "Cancel or Allow" messages, that most users either blindly answer "Allow" without checking, or turn UAC off (http://news.softpedia.com/news/Kill-Windows-Vista-UAC-from-the-Command-Prompt-65403.shtml).

Permissions, specifically application permissions

In Mac OS X, by default, apps don't automatically inherit the privileges of the user's account. In Vista, by default, they do. So, for example, one app can launch another app in Vista without authentication. In Mac OS X, permission is asked and, if the app requires administrative access (such as modifying system files or software), even if the user account is admin-level, the admin-level password must be supplied. By default in Vista, no password is required. Responding to a simple "Cancel or Allow" dialog, especially when they pop up so frequently as to be annoying and easily dismissed, is NOT my idea of "security."

Viruses

Don't assume that a Mac can't get them.
I don't assume. I've never said a Mac can't get a virus. Viruses have been found in the past that affect Mac OS, but as of this date, none are "in the wild". Compare this to hundreds of thousands of viruses in the wild that affect Windows.
...since we're only 5% of the market...
... and yet, we don't have even .1% of the viruses!
...Windows has gotten better in this area...
According to Symantec's bi-annual Internet Security Thread Report, "Throughout 2007 Symantec detected more than 711,912 novel threats which brings the total number of malicious programs that the security firm's anti-virus programs detect to 1,122,311.
The report notes: "almost two thirds of all malicious code threats currently detected were created during 2007."
The vast majority of these viruses are aimed at PCs running Microsoft Windows..."
The other way would be a trojan horse, a virus that hides inside a program
A trojan horse is malware, not a virus. It doesn't "hide inside a program". It may be disguised as another program. Unlike a virus, a trojan horse can't replicate itself to other computers or networks without user intervention.
If you download an application and it asks for admin permissions, you mindlessly grant it, don't you?
Absolutely not! I only download and install known applications from trusted sites. On occasion, I've visited a site that automatically downloaded a .dmg file into my Downloads folder. My response to this is always the same: Reset Safari, delete the .dmg file and empty the trash. Again, a trojan is not a virus. A trojan requires a user to install it. A virus doesn't. Windows is awash in viruses. Macs aren't.

Windows has to give up a significant portion of system resources to keep antivirus software running. Macs don't. Without pulling out a stopwatch, run Vista and launch all your normal applications, while running any AV software you choose. Now reboot and disable your AV and see how much better performance you get from your system.

Application installation

In Mac OS X, many apps are completely removed by dragging the .app to the trash. Some leave user preference files, which are easily removed by a novice user. In Windows, watch how quickly a novice user can turn a computer into a paperweight by editing the Windows Registry without knowing what they're doing. Even if they manage not to damage Windows, chances are VERY high that they would never remove all traces of the program. Windows add/remove programs does NOT clean the registry of all entries made by the program's installation.

The dock is not a replacement for the Windows Start Menu. The dock is for user-defined, frequently used program shortcuts, not a catch-all for every program installed. I don't want every program I install to appear on the dock, cluttering it. "Fishing around in the app folder" isn't necessary. The apps are clearly listed in alphabetical order. Also, a simple Spotlight search will find the app in seconds.

Patches

Yes, I run Software Update daily. Compare the number of patches that Windows has to download compared to Apple. For every Apple patch, there are dozens for Windows. On my current installation of Mac OS X, I have had only 8 updates to the OS. Windows frequently has more than that in a day!
...But I'll take some points away from Apple for forcing us to pay $129...
Vista Home Basic: $199.95
Vista Home Premium: $259.95
Vista Business: $299.95
Vista Ultimate: $319.95

... and no one is "forced" to buy anything. Count the number of Mac users in this forum who are still running Tiger.

device compatibility

You're really not going there, are you? OK, Vista did upset a lot of people by not working properly with some older XP drivers. I'm stuck there with an HP printer. So I'll grant that.
When I plug a device into Windows, it usually either takes me through an installation process, with dialogs to respond to, or pops up the "Cancel or Allow" or some other messages. In some cases, it requires a reboot or to download drivers. When I plug the same device into the Mac, it starts working. Period.

Plug a new cordless mouse's receiver into a Vista machine's USB port. Watch what happens. Now do the same with Mac OS X.

networking

I have a DSL modem/wireless router. I also have a cable modem/airport express. With Windows, I spend 5-10 minutes configuring Windows to access those networks. With the Mac, I turn on Airport Utility, it finds the networks, I select the one I want, enter the password, and I'm connected.
Oh, and Mac OS X asks for my administrator password to change wireless settings.... Windows doesn't.

[The Flashing Fi]

Security


Mac OS doesn't simply put up a dialog; it requires an administrator password. Vista doesn't. It only asks for "Cancel" or "Allow". A script could easily respond to Vista's UAC. In this regard, not only does Vista offer zero protection, it also is designed to annoy users (http://www.cnet.com.au/software/operatingsystems/0,239029541,339288150,00.htm) with so many of these "Cancel or Allow" messages, that most users either blindly answer "Allow" without checking, or turn UAC off (http://news.softpedia.com/news/Kill-Windows-Vista-UAC-from-the-Command-Prompt-65403.shtml).


No OS can compensate for user stupidity. If a user blindly clicks the UAC prompts, that's their own fault/problem. It's no different than a user who blindly types in their password when Mac OS X requests it, or when Mac OS X prompts the user whether they want to run a program that he/she has downloaded from the internet for the first time (which does not request a password/username).


Permissions, specifically application permissions

In Mac OS X, by default, apps don't automatically inherit the privileges of the user's account. In Vista, by default, they do. So, for example, one app can launch another app in Vista without authentication. In Mac OS X, permission is asked and, if the app requires administrative access (such as modifying system files or software), even if the user account is admin-level, the admin-level password must be supplied. By default in Vista, no password is required. Responding to a simple "Cancel or Allow" dialog, especially when they pop up so frequently as to be annoying and easily dismissed, is NOT my idea of "security."

The user in Vista does not have administrative privileges, so, even if a program in Vista inherits the user accounts privileges, it still does not have access to system files or folders without UAC intervening. If the user decides to hit accept, once again, their problem. If the program launches another program, you're right, no permission is asked, but the launched program will not have administrative access, unless prompted to do so.

Modifying system files by the user requires that the user manually go into the system and change the files permissions themselves (usually encountered by someone who wants to patch the uxtheme.dll to install custom themes). Even if you attempt to copy and paste the new file to replace a system file, UAC will prompt you, but access will still be denied after granting it access.


Viruses


I don't assume. I've never said a Mac can't get a virus. Viruses have been found in the past that affect Mac OS, but as of this date, none are "in the wild". Compare this to hundreds of thousands of viruses in the wild that affect Windows.

... and yet, we don't have even .1% of the viruses!

Once again, it's due to Mac OS X having a much lower market share than Windows. If Mac OS X ever gets the market share Windows does, Mac OS X will be plagued by the same problems.


According to Symantec's bi-annual Internet Security Thread Report, "Throughout 2007 Symantec detected more than 711,912 novel threats which brings the total number of malicious programs that the security firm's anti-virus programs detect to 1,122,311.
The report notes: "almost two thirds of all malicious code threats currently detected were created during 2007."
The vast majority of these viruses are aimed at PCs running Microsoft Windows..."

I'm stupid, you're going to have explain your point to me. Nobody is denying there are Windows viruses out there, or that there are a lot of them.

Windows has to give up a significant portion of system resources to keep antivirus software running. Macs don't. Without pulling out a stopwatch, run Vista and launch all your normal applications, while running any AV software you choose. Now reboot and disable your AV and see how much better performance you get from your system.

It depends on what anti-virus software you use. Norton sucks and uses a Godly amount of resources. I use Avira. It's free, it's light, and does the job, combined with good browsing habits. I've never ran into a problem. I don't notice a difference. The probably is a difference, but I don't obsess over small crap like that.


Application installation

In Mac OS X, many apps are completely removed by dragging the .app to the trash. Some leave user preference files, which are easily removed by a novice user. In Windows, watch how quickly a novice user can turn a computer into a paperweight by editing the Windows Registry without knowing what they're doing. Even if they manage not to damage Windows, chances are VERY high that they would never remove all traces of the program. Windows add/remove programs does NOT clean the registry of all entries made by the program's installation.

For Windows, there are registry cleaners that will fix any problems for you. I find that CCleaner is a good one. It also has many other useful functions (such as cleaning out caches).

From what I can tell, is Windows add/remove does not actually remove the program. It keeps a list of programs and a link to their respective uninstaller. When you choose to remove a program, it uses that programs uninstaller. Depending on how good that uninstaller is, it is possibly that it removes all that program's entries. Some companies bundle half-baked uninstallers that removes the files and some entries, but not everything.

Regardless, a user does not need to go in and mess with the registry in order to not have it a mess.


The dock is not a replacement for the Windows Start Menu. The dock is for user-defined, frequently used program shortcuts, not a catch-all for every program installed. I don't want every program I install to appear on the dock, cluttering it. "Fishing around in the app folder" isn't necessary. The apps are clearly listed in alphabetical order. Also, a simple Spotlight search will find the app in seconds.

What I think he was trying to get at, is that for new users, it can sometimes be troublesome to access programs. When I got my Macbook Pro, I had Tiger installed. It took me a while to access my programs, and I found that it was a bit annoying, since I couldn't just click a button and BOOM, there they ALL are. I adjusted over time, and with Leopard, I took my app folder and made a stack out of it.


Patches

Yes, I run Software Update daily. Compare the number of patches that Windows has to download compared to Apple. For every Apple patch, there are dozens for Windows. On my current installation of Mac OS X, I have had only 8 updates to the OS. Windows frequently has more than that in a day!

Just because Mac OS X has "less" patches, doesn't mean it's better. As far as I'm concerned, with the current way it's setup, it just means that the user has to wait LONGER to get OS fixes/improvements. For Windows, you get them pretty much as soon as they fix the issue. They're just different "philosophies" on how to keep an OS updated. Generally, when Apple releases an update, there area ton a fixes. It helps keep the user from constantly downloading updates, but on the downside, if you NEED a fix ASAP, you could be left waiting for a month or 3. ;)


Vista Home Basic: $199.95
Vista Home Premium: $259.95
Vista Business: $299.95
Vista Ultimate: $319.95


Awesome. And those are the retail prices. How about OEM prices, since retail is needlessly more expensive (the only benefit you get is that you can transfer the license).

Vista Home Basic: $89.99 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116196)
Vista Home Premium: $99.99 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116485) (honestly, if you're a home user, this is the version you'll ever need. The only features that Ultimate really has to offer is Dreamscene and Texas Hold'em. Everything else is pretty much some administrative tools and the networking capabilities found in XP Pro)
Vista Business: $139.99 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116475)
Vista Ultimate: $179.99 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116493)


device compatibility


When I plug a device into Windows, it usually either takes me through an installation process, with dialogs to respond to, or pops up the "Cancel or Allow" or some other messages. In some cases, it requires a reboot or to download drivers. When I plug the same device into the Mac, it starts working. Period.
I have never had to restart because of something I had to plug into the USB port. My printer works flawlessly in Vista (it's an old Canon and the drivers are included with Vista), my Logitech wheel works without me needing to install anything, but I do install the device profiler so I can customize it some of the functions, but it works fine without the profiler. My keyboards and such work fine. My external hard drive works fine (the only thing that pops up is a box asking me what I want to do, the same thing for my flash stick).

[/quote
Plug a new cordless mouse's receiver into a Vista machine's USB port. Watch what happens. Now do the same with Mac OS X.[/quote]

I bought a cheapo laser mouse from Best Buy earlier this year, and when I plugged it into my computer, it worked without any hassle in both XP and Vista. I didn't have to wait for it to work, it just did. Remember, this is with a cheap wireless laser mouse. Guess what happened when I plugged it into my laptop? It worked fine as well. My old Logitech wireless optical mouse worked great in both Mac OS X and Windows, without any hassle. The Dell wired laser mouse that I'm using now works fine in Mac OS X and Windows. So I don't see what point you're trying to make. Sometimes you need to install software to get extra buttons to work properly, but you need to do the same in Mac OS X if you buy a Logitech mouse with multiple buttons.


networking

I have a DSL modem/wireless router. I also have a cable modem/airport express. With Windows, I spend 5-10 minutes configuring Windows to access those networks. With the Mac, I turn on Airport Utility, it finds the networks, I select the one I want, enter the password, and I'm connected.
Oh, and Mac OS X asks for my administrator password to change wireless settings.... Windows doesn't.

That's funny. With my dad's Linksys router, in Mac OS X, if I put the Macbook Pro to sleep by putting the lid down and after an hour or so, when I come back, it doesn't automatically reconnect. In fact, I have to wait about 3 minutes for it to find the network. Then, I have to manually select the network to connect. It doesn't do it all the time though. With my Belkin router, I haven't run into this problem.

I spent the same amount of time networking my Mac and Windows to each other (including setting sharing permissions for folders and my external hard drive). It was pretty easy and has worked flawlessly.

For your network, since you're using Airport Utility, I assume you're using a Apple wireless product of some type.

However, for your network, I take it that you're connecting to the network, and you want to access files on your Mac or some other computer? When you turn on the computer, you have to type in IP addresses for the computers in the network to access their files and such. If this is the case. You can have it so that Windows automatically mounts the network drives. But then again, I have no idea what equipment you're using and what you're trying to do. All that I know is that for me, after setting the network up, I don't have to do anything in Windows to access my laptop, whereas in Mac OS X, I have to manually connect to my Windows computer.

[Pikemann Urge]

one of his old cars for sale on eBay, and it was an attrocity, something bad like purple with a blinding interior and matching seat belts
Yucky.

The problem I have with it, as a car enthusiast, is the obsession with Porsches and nothing else.
I know what you mean. I never only like one brand of anything. But I can understand that if he really, really likes them... why not.

If I collected computers I'd like to have more than just old Macs, but then again the Suns and SGs would be too annoying to use so I may only have Macs anyway. ;)

[(L)]

Security
Mac OS doesn't simply put up a dialog; it requires an administrator password. Vista doesn't. It only asks for "Cancel" or "Allow". A script could easily respond to Vista's UAC. In this regard, not only does Vista offer zero protection, it also is designed to annoy users (http://www.cnet.com.au/software/operatingsystems/0,239029541,339288150,00.htm) with so many of these "Cancel or Allow" messages, that most users either blindly answer "Allow" without checking, or turn UAC off (http://news.softpedia.com/news/Kill-Windows-Vista-UAC-from-the-Command-Prompt-65403.shtml).


Here, you mention the single point I find troublesome about all these people defending Windows. I don't really want to get into the point-by-point argument -- anybody's computer choice is up to him; if he gets it wrong, why should I care? Windows might just be the better choice for what he needs to get done.

But that's just the thing. My friends find some of Mac and Windows dialogs and error windows to be extremely rude. Macs aren't free of the problem, but it is clear to all that Windows is in a different league altogether. To use a simple example, on Windows you can get error dialogs that basically say there was an error and offer you two options: "Cancel," and "OK." The former is sometimes grayed out and not clickable. And in any case, why in hell should I ever give approval for my purchase to poop out on me? If a new car breaks down repeatedly, obviously the car is not a great product, but it's at least not adding insult to injury by asking me to OK it.

I'm not saying that that makes Macs instantly better than Windows. Like I say, some of my friends actually prefer Windows, despite this, but this sort of thing inoculates them against being die-hard fans of something they sometimes find to be below their standards, regardless of preference. I just wonder if some of the people in this silly argument actually find an insulting product worth defending so fervently, even to the extent of playing make-believe.

Once again, it's due to Mac OS X having a much lower market share than Windows. If Mac OS X ever gets the market share Windows does, Mac OS X will be plagued by the same problems.

Like this Flashing Fi person. Do you know what I'm talking about? All you say here is that Macs currently are definitely more secure, but if enough people switch from Windows, the dangers will follow. Let's say you're right, and it's that simple, which it might be. So what? It's safer now, but you'll be plagued later if and when Macs gain phenomenal market share? Windows users are plagued now! If someone says, "Windows is less secure in terms of viruses, if only because Macs aren't yet exposed to them," that's really the end of it. Windows loses, as it stands now, and playing make-believe won't change that.

I'm not saying that Macs are better in every way, or even better in general. Rather, they both have their faults, and it's childish not to learn when to say, "OK, you have a point there."

[bmorris]

isnt there an apple ad with seinfeld in it?

[macshill]

isnt there an apple ad with seinfeld in it?

This one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZuOtNwa-jk

Considering his show was a "a show about nothing" enough to add it into the show (Jerry and George write an NBC pilot), he did think outside of the box... just like Steve Jobs and Apple.

[roach]

Yes, it is. At $.5 million, it better be. Seinfield is actually very into cars, but Porsches and ONLY Porsches. In fact someone had posted one of his old cars for sale on eBay, and it was an attrocity, something bad like purple with a blinding interior and matching seat belts, I forget the exact things he had done but it was horrid. Jerry has a big collection of 911s (from classic to new) that he keeps in a NYC garage.

The problem I have with it, as a car enthusiast, is the obsession with Porsches and nothing else. Sure, they're great (I own a Porsche myself) but how about something, anything, else? For that Carerra GT he could have three Ferrari F430s. I think Jerry, when he was poor, locked onto Porsche as a status symbol and never let go.

He also drives other cars. He was involved in an accident driving a classic fiat.

[mashny]

What are the odds of Apple legally procuring Seinfeld footage of Jerry and his Mac, and using it in commercials to show the hypocrisy of Seinfeld and the desperation of Microsoft?

Not likely, I guess, but wouldn't that be great?

[supmango]

I'm 14 and it's one of my favorite shows. A lot of my friends watch it too.

It's still being aired on TBS. I think that while Seinfeld is still popular, MS should've have gone with someone younger.

MS needs a mid-life crisis.

MS is WAY past mid-life. Using Jerry Seinfield is simply their way of appealing to the youngest audience that they have any chance with (30+). Unless there is some amazing and mysterious OS that MS is working on that no one knows about, all MS will be able to achieve is stable sales through older age groups; which will eventually cause a natural phasing out of MS products (because people die).

[supmango]

What are the odds of Apple legally procuring Seinfeld footage of Jerry and his Mac, and using it in commercials to show the hypocrisy of Seinfeld and the desperation of Microsoft?

Not likely, I guess, but wouldn't that be great?

It is possible, but probably not practical. I think Apple's strategy is to aggressively target young people so that they will develop some loyalty to Apple products. Seinfield appeals to (mostly) 30+. Obviously some of you are fans of the show; however most you fall into that age group of people who are most likely not going to switch, no matter how bad things get with Microsoft (realizing that most of you are either life-long Mac users, simply ahead of the curve in intelligence, or other exception to the rule).

[sellitman]

10 million will let Jerry buy some very nice Macs. :D

[Phillyzero]

Jerry's just being nice, it's not like he needs the money :rolleyes:

[PostTribber]

...take the $10 million and use it to patch OS X to PC. then I could buy a Sager Quad-Core Laptop as soon as Snow Leopard was released.

[Shadow]

MS is WAY past mid-life. Using Jerry Seinfield is simply their way of appealing to the youngest audience that they have any chance with (30+). Unless there is some amazing and mysterious OS that MS is working on that no one knows about, all MS will be able to achieve is stable sales through older age groups; which will eventually cause a natural phasing out of MS products (because people die).
Have you heard of Singularity or Midori? Both could be considered "the next Windows" although I hear Midori is a bit further along than Singularity. Both are interesting however, and you can even download Singularity source code.

[ttech10]

I think they should have gone with like 'Dwight' from 'The Office'. That would be MUCH more effective than Jerry.

[charlituna]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,407702,00.html

Microsoft Corp., weary of being cast as a stodgy oldster by Apple Inc.'s advertising,


turns to a 54 year old comedian.

yeah, great plan

[charlituna]

I'm just waiting for this to fail. $10 million for an ad campaign?! .



actually people of his caliber generally get more in the end. cause they get paid for every time the ad is used.

I believe that Justin "I'm a Mac" Long agreed to about that amount for a total buyout on a block of ads (not sure how many but like a year or two's worth) rather than getting a payment for each showing and click. in the end, Apple is going to come out ahead but Justin is said to have felt that the exposure would offset the lesser pay.

[SuperTricolor]

It would be nice to find a picture of Seinfeld using a Mac or at least using
his iPod. I'm sure he has one... :D:D:D:D: apple:

[charlituna]

What are the odds of Apple legally procuring Seinfeld footage of Jerry and his Mac, and using it in commercials to show the hypocrisy of Seinfeld and the desperation of Microsoft?

Not likely, I guess, but wouldn't that be great?


more like a great way to look like a jackass.

apple has the right idea at the moment. focus on the true issues. the problem with the ads is that they are more often than not 100% correct. Windows isn't plug in and go easy, it is more complicated to transfer files, they don't have teams of folks certified by their company to deal with both the software and the hardware, they don't have teams devoted to helping customers pick out the right machine for what they want to do (rather than the one with the cheapest price tag or whatever the salesperson thinks looks like an okay machine) etc.

[macshill]

I think practically every online article has mentioned the fact that Jerry used a Mac on his show (or at least had the very latest on his desk, even unused) and those who read online articles (and dedicated computer print magazines) will remember that when they see the ads. Perhaps Microsoft's saviour are those who don't keep up w/ this fact and don't look at that as the first barrier you have to push through to listen to his message.

But this hypocrisy sure has gotten a lot of hoopla. Maybe Bill Gates & Co. should take back the offer and take their lumps as a half-baked idea.

Hell, using that much money to tell people "HEY! VISTA EXISTS! And it's not as bad as you think!" is a bad use of money when you could be using it to fix whats wrong w/ it and make it better. Or even better-- put it all towards Windows 7.

[Pikemann Urge]

What are the odds of Apple legally procuring Seinfeld footage of Jerry and his Mac, and using it in commercials to show the hypocrisy of Seinfeld and the desperation of Microsoft?

Not likely, I guess, but wouldn't that be great?
No. Because the best way to lose a struggle is to react to your opposition. Right now, Microsoft is reacting to Apple, so Apple has the upper hand. This philosophical principle is good not just for business but for everyday life.

[charlituna]

No. Because the best way to lose a struggle is to react to your opposition. Right now, Microsoft is reacting to Apple, so Apple has the upper hand. This philosophical principle is good not just for business but for everyday life.



a friend of mine joked that it's like feeding a troll. not only do they not go away but you can end up looking just as nasty.

[charlituna]

It is possible, but probably not practical. I think Apple's strategy is to aggressively target young people so that they will develop some loyalty to Apple products.

i don't know about at this moment, but at one point viewers 18-28 were THE ratings demo that all the advertisers and tv shows were gunning for. advertisers figured anyone over 35 wasn't likely to switch brands and folks 29-34 weren't much more likely. but under 28 would be game to try anything once.

Apple is playing to a similar game although it wouldn't hurt them to hit Gen Granny as well. I see a lot of them going in and out of my local store. and not always with grandkids in tow

[elcid]

Just saw the ads during the Giants-Redskins game and I have no idea what I was supposed to get out of that...


Windows. Delicious.

[KingYaba]

It had something about clowns or clown shoes. Very confusing. Since clowns are stupid, does that mean Vista is stupid?

[Teh Don Ditty]

Just saw it as well. It made absolutely no sense whatsoever. That's supposed to take on the Get a Mac ads?

[archesdevil]

That commercial was worse than any computer os they've ever made. If I see Gates "adjust his shorts" again, I will be severely traumatized.

[swiftaw]

What the heck? I have no idea what that was all about.

[73bmw]

Just saw it as well. It made absolutely no sense whatsoever. That's supposed to take on the Get a Mac ads?

What are you guys talking about, that commercial totally made me want to go buy vista. hahahaha what a waste of 10 million dollars. i feel sorry for jerry for being put in such a ****** commercial

[Robert Denby]

That spot was almost as funny as the final episode of "Seinfeld."

[richard.mac]

anyone got a link to the ad?

[nigrunze]

anyone got a link to the ad?

Unfortunately, I do. http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=afR5J7eskno

[cheekybobcat]

Just saw it as well. It made absolutely no sense whatsoever. That's supposed to take on the Get a Mac ads?

I guess a lot of members are watching the same channel!
I just saw it and was wondering wtf it was a commercial for until the end where Jerry asked Bill if Microsoft is coming out with something delicious.
Possibly the most random commercial I have ever seen

[Robert Denby]

It's hard to believe that, with the hundreds of people employed at Redmond, no one has a sense of humor.

Could it be coincidence, or is it actively discouraged during the hiring process?

[richard.mac]

Unfortunately, I do. http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=afR5J7eskno

unfortunately heres my review.

ok i found the first part funny "Shoe Circus quality shoes at discount prices, why pay more?… Bill Gates?" because it has a Seinfeld ring to it and apparently Jerry has a weird shoe collecting fetish. but the commercial just went on for too long not even mentioning Windows. Bill Gate's discount card gag was NOT FUNNY! and dont even meantion Bill's actin he was so slow and non-witty.

Just saw it as well. It made absolutely no sense whatsoever. That's supposed to take on the Get a Mac ads?

thats the whole point! :D it was supposed to be like Seinfeld which was the show about nothing.

[Stevamundo]

What the hell? I just saw it too during to Giants/Redskins game. Microsoft just wasted millions on that???? Here's a brilliant idea, why don't you save your millions and fix your crummy operating system.

Next installment: we will see and hear Bill and Jerry holding hands and jumping up, clicking their new clown shoes together and saying “MICROSOFT INNOVATION!” OMG!

[richard.mac]

how much better is this commercial from HP featuring Jerry from about a year ago http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=BraU_cpfBeI

[r.j.s]

Wow, that was ... bad. So ... sometime in the future, MS is going to come out with something good? Is that what they want you to understand?

[Teh Don Ditty]

thats the whole point! :D it was supposed to be like Seinfeld which was the show about nothing.

I hated Seinfeld (the show)

Curb Your Enthusiasm though was brilliant.

[KingYaba]

how much better is this commercial from HP featuring Jerry from about a year ago http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=BraU_cpfBeI

Much better. Dare I say it was a good commercial? I understood what the product is at least. :rolleyes:

I'm rolling my eyes towards Microsoft because the new one fails to show what I'm supposed to buy. :)

[nissan.gtp]

just saw it.

lamest commercial ever. LMAO.

[APPLENEWBIE]

there is a saying in advertising that one-half of every ad budget is a complete waste of money. The only problem is you don't know which half.

I think I just saw which half...

Yikes!!!!!!!

[richard.mac]

I hated Seinfeld (the show)

Curb Your Enthusiasm though was brilliant.

Seinfeld was a bit more old school version of Curb. i like to think Seinfeld was showing its age and Curb took over. though Curb's starting to show its age, the new season isnt as good as the previous.

[bobbleheadbob]

I actually liked. I didn't get it, but I liked it. :)

I think Bill Gates came across very well. I wonder how Steve Jobs would do in a similar spot. Now that would be interesting to see! :apple:

[elcid]

It was a good promo for a Seinfeld episode. I am no where nearer buying Vista though.

[61132]

Just saw it, LAME. Has nothing to do with computers, has nothing to do with Windows until the very end. Still, pretty sad attempt at a commercial. I liked how it was like a Seinfeld episode though hahaha, but in no way did it say "buy windows"

And, I don't think I would ever buy Vista. Tomorrow at work I am "upgrading" to XP Professional on a new computer we bought with Vista. :)

[APPLENEWBIE]

OK. A little background. I used to work for a large bank, producing it's TV commercials. Won some awards. I think I have an eye for good commercials. Anyway, I just watched it again. until the last 15 seconds, there is no indication what they are trying to sell. And I wonder if most viewers even recognize Gates until he flashes his "card."

The inference that microsoft (Bill) is all about discount merchandise is, uh, interesting... Is the idea that he walks in "everyman's" shoes supposed to tell us that what-ever-the-hell it is they are selling is for the masses? Man, I just don't get this at all.

On the other hand, I thought Bill actually did pretty well. Doing that much acting is harder than it looks. I would love to see what ended up on the "cutting room floor."

[Robert Denby]

OK. A little background. I used to work for a large bank, producing it's TV commercials. Won some awards. I think I have an eye for good commercials. Anyway, I just watched it again. until the last 15 seconds, there is no indication what they are trying to sell.

The inference that microsoft (Bill) is all about discount merchandise is, uh, interesting... Is the idea that he walks in "everyman's" shoes supposed to tell us that what-ever-the-hell it is they are selling is for the masses? Man, I just don't get this at all.

On the other hand, I thought Bill actually did pretty well. Doing that much acting is harder than it looks. I would love to see what ended up on the "cutting room floor."

Maybe the "shoes" represent third party apps that spoil the wonder that is Vista. Like, if Microsoft made its own "shoes," you'd never get a "blister" (blue screen of death). Of course, there's always the ill-fitting "underpants" (viruses and spyware) that can also cause problems.

When you think of it like that, it's Genius!

[scotty96LSC]

Ok, I saw it and said, "That's it?"
That was nothing about nothing.

[hobbbz]

Basically one big routine of jerry's (while talking to bill) in a shoe store ending on 'the future' and the windows logo.

I assume there will be many more in the campaign

[erikistired]

so uh, microsoft is going into the pastries business? ...or? that's all i got from that commercial.

[mtfield]

Yea I just saw it too.. thought it was a funny but, but didn't have anything to do with windows until the very end but just briefly..

[hotsauce]

WTH was that? I have no idea what I just watched. Was there a message there?

[mr.light]

I saw the commercial too. 30 seconds of my life gone... for what? It said nothing. Was that Bill's mug shot photo on the card?

[mr.light]

Just saw it. Didn't think it funny at all. (Seinfeld humor never worked for me anyway) Was there a message? and was that Bill's mugshot on that card he held up?

[dual64bit]

I haven't seen it, is it online?

[dukebound85]

went too long before any mention of vista

bill sucks at acting by the way

i did like the beginning though

[Rivix]

I thought it was great. Sure, its not terrific marketing, but it made me smile.

And if you guys are complaining about no hardcore vista pounding, thats exactly what these ads are trying to avoid. It gets you talking about the ad and thus talking about vista. We're doing it.

[dukebound85]

I haven't seen it, is it online?

here you go
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7634860479792059002&ei=7ZLASJb8J6G0qAOu4tiECQ&q=gates+and+seinfeld&vt=lf

[dual64bit]

Is this it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afR5J7eskno

[APPLENEWBIE]

I thought it was great.

Oh, I guess you mean the "OTHER KIND" of great. :-)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48jlm6QSU4k

[tgildred]

I was prepared to be "wowed" by this ad, but really, that was disappointing. It was cute, but looking past it's (scant) entertainment value, I don't see how this will reinvigorate Microsoft. I mean, even the Mojave commercials at least told you what they were selling.

In short: the Bill Gates and Jerry Seinfeld show? I'm sold. Windows Vista? Not so much.

[11800506]

I thought that commercial was quite stupid... and not funny at all. Maybe I just didn't get the jokes?

[Agent Smith]

I thought that commercial was quite stupid... and not funny at all. Maybe I just didn't get the jokes?

Agreed. Apologies for posting a picture, but I think it applies quite nicely...

[soberbrain]

News Headline from the Future

Class-Action suit filed against Microsoft

California man claims Windows computers are not "moist and chewy like cakes". He is also claiming damages from sustaining multiple electrical shocks while attempting to "eat his computer while he was working".

[charlituna]

I thought it was great. Sure, its not terrific marketing, but it made me smile.

And if you guys are complaining about no hardcore vista pounding, thats exactly what these ads are trying to avoid. It gets you talking about the ad and thus talking about vista. We're doing it.

actually it gets us talking about how stupid the ad is. period.

few folks are going to actually think about Vista when seeing that ad. and those that do think about it aren't going to be thinking nicely. more like "with that kind of stupid ad I am really glad I don't have Vista, or Windows at all"

[chatin]

Two incredibly wealthy, self actualized, older gents talking nonsense. Where's my copy of Vista !?! Can a Mac run Vista only and still keep the latest firmware? A hip dude's gotta know!
:p

[shizzlegtx]

I thought it was an Odd add, but reminiscent of the show Seinfeld, about nothing.

It was quirky, but that's it.


In any event, I hate those stupid apple commercials anyway. They come off so pretentious and act as if Vista is some garbage OS like WinME.

I honestly hate the bad rep Vista gets. I have both Leopard and Vista, and I like them both for what they are.

[tbohlsennswssrg]

What The ****** Microsoft

According to Google Finance (in the Period 2000 - 2008):

Apple (AAPL) Shares have risen an average of 568.10 % while Microsoft (MSFT) Shares have fell an average of 51.35 % in the same period

[TwinCities Dan]

What The ****** Microsoft

According to Google Finance (in the Period 2000 - 2008):

Apple (AAPL) Shares have risen an average of 568.10 % while Microsoft (MSFT) Shares have fell an average of 51.35 % in the same period

You say that as if it's a bad thing? :confused: ;) :D

[NetScheduler]

Huh?

[LTM]

I thought this was interesting from the original post:

"We've got a pretty noisy competitor out there," Brooks said of Apple whose "I'm a Mac... and I'm a PC," commercials criticize Windows Vista. "You know it. I know it. It's caused some impact. We're going to start countering it. They tell us it's the iWay or the highway. We think that's a sad message. Software out there is made to be compatible with your whole life."

Wasn't it Micorsoft who tried to eliminate all competitors (including Apple) to obtain the highest (monopolized) marketshare of software development?

[Afini]

Bill Gates probably has a closet with a bunch of Macs that he plays with daily. :rolleyes: