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Sean bh
Jan 11, 2004, 04:27 PM
Well, this post might cause APPLE to provide REAL answers and service and not a run around to the noise issues that the new G5's are causing and a Fix for the problem. And not a run around for users to TRY to figure out how to make a new Flagship computer costing $3,000, by installing 3rd party software such as CHUD, or buying ground loop isolators, etc to make it work properly.


This is pertaining to the G5 noise Issue that can be found by searching under "G5 Noise" or "CHUD" at Apples discussion site, or just simply a search at Google.com. Since this post is being posted at every possible APPLE related site I can find on the internet, there is about 44,000 so far.
If you have a G5 that has the noise problem that has taken up the majority of posts on ALL APPLE SUPPORT AND DISCUSSIONS boards, here is a way to get a NEW G5 and possible the new G5 coming out in a month or two.

I have noticed that those who have taken their G5 to have the power supply replaced, still have the same issue, even up to 3 or 4 times. Well, someone forgot to mention the California Lemon Law Statutes

CA Civil Code Section 1793.22
AND the The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act that protects the buyer of any product which costs more than $25 and comes with an express written warranty. This law applies to any product that you buy that does not perform as it should.

So go ahead, take your G5 in, have them fix it 4 times,(this is replacing the Power supply) and then the next time you take it in, say, oh, I'll take a new G5 please, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

Now here is the big issue, the G5 cost $3,000 right?. Well if there are about 1000 users who do this, Hmmm, lets do that math here, this post could cost Apple 3 MILLION.

For more info on the Leman Law, please go to:

http://www.yourlemonlawrights.com/state_laws/california.htm#mmwa

edesignuk
Jan 11, 2004, 04:33 PM
...um...ok...http://upload.edesignuk.net/uploaded_data/smilies/wtf.gif

kettle
Jan 11, 2004, 04:45 PM
remind me to lobby my local M.P.

In the U.K. I think the slang for a troublesome product is a "Dog" and a product that fails to be as popular as it was supposed to be in sales terms, is called a "Lemon". Just thought that would be interesting for anyone outside of California.:)

Mblazened
Jan 11, 2004, 05:09 PM
there is no widespread power supply or fan issue with the g5s. I know, i repair the damn things.

beg_ne
Jan 11, 2004, 05:16 PM
Does a little noise really qualify the G5 as a lemon or are you just being an *******?

Some people are really just scum and will lash out and try to hurt anyone or anything that causes them the smallest amount of discomfort. I wouldn't doubt that this person starts looking up ways to claim mental distress from my comments post haste after reading them.

lol

Sun Baked
Jan 11, 2004, 05:17 PM
Problem is the Lemon Laws are for fitness of use -- they don't really cover products that smell, makes odd noises, make the owner sick, etc.

Take a look at the Vehicle Section of the code -- as long as the vehicle continues to run and pass the fitness standards for use, it's not a lemon... Even though it may rattle so much it sounds like it's falling apart, or the interior smells like a dead rat.

Even if you're allergic to the smell/odors and/or the sounds are driving you insane. :rolleyes:

---

The fans rattle, buzz, etc... But they are working and most likely will continue working for a long time.

The power supply isn't "broken" or a "lemon" -- it's a cooling fan making noise.

kettle
Jan 11, 2004, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by Mblazened
there is no widespread power supply or fan issue with the g5s. I know, i repair the damn things.

yeee!

What's the top three repairs on the G5 thus far?:)

MacAztec
Jan 11, 2004, 06:08 PM
Oh yes, let me go buy a G5 for 3000 dollars, get it fixed 4 times, then have them take the original one i had away and give me a new one.

What do you get for free? A waste of time?

crazzyeddie
Jan 11, 2004, 06:18 PM
I think the moderators should just delete this entire thread because its completely idiotic.

Sean bh
Jan 11, 2004, 06:58 PM
I am glad I got someones attention, now if I can only get Apple's.

Sean bh
Jan 11, 2004, 07:01 PM
First of all, this little noise when used in an audio post production facility connected to Pro audio monitors is not usable, Period, whether its a faint sound or a major TICKING< HUMMING, and CHIRPING SOUND. A little discomfort? Nah, not at all, Just completely unusable, since when I am doing post audio work, and cleaning up some dialogue in a show during a quite passage and the clients ask, oh, what's that noise? was that done during filming? can you EQ that out?

Think before you assume I am lashing out. I am simply stating facts.

the reason I mentioned the return is for those who have taken their G5's several times, have the access to get a new one, second, I know this might be difficult for you to understand, but this was also intended to make apple think twice about selling a defective product, if you do not find it an issue, ignore these post, I just personally feel that when there are THOUSANDS of post on a particular "PROBLEM" it IS an issue. And no I did NOT imply to go buy a G5 to take in a few times to get a new one, please use some common sense, its for THOSE who have ALREADY bought one, I know that's hard to comprehend, as I didn't think I had to be that detailed.

And how do you find this thread idiotic when the subject matter takes up the Majority of apples threads? and thousands else where?

Don't read it then, it wasn't intended for you.

Sun Baked
Jan 11, 2004, 07:18 PM
http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?postid=160314 http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?postid=160314 http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?postid=160314

This is also called SPAM, of an issue that was "discussed before" -- many times.

You're not here to talk about the issue and ways to solve it, you're here acting like a ambulance chasing lawyer drumming up support for legal action.

If you can't deal with the criticism generated, or even understand the other side. Then you obviously don't have any strong debating skills. Since many decent debaters can argue BOTH sides of an issue well.

There were also some fixes mentioned, though they aren't quite Apple-approved.

But when you need to get a machine working or integrated into production -- some companies are willing to risk losing the warranty by modifying machines. Because, the income generated by the machine offsets the cost of the machine.

Problem is, this is an issue that will become more common as people ask for faster/hotter machines. Noises that'll have to be worked around.

cubist
Jan 11, 2004, 07:59 PM
And hey, the G5 is a lot quieter than the "wind tunnel" MDD G4s. If you want super quiet, you should have bought a G4 Cube.

Like I did.

crazytom
Jan 11, 2004, 08:04 PM
I've been waiting to purchase a new Mac, because I was one of the unfortunate ones to buy the Dual MDD Windtunnel. Even with the replaced power supply and proc fan, I still can't mix music at a low level and I can hear it blowing from 2 rooms away. I guess that I'll be waiting some time before getting a G5...even though I'm sure a G5 would be MUCH quieter than what I have now.

All of you that are unsympathetic about the noise their machine makes can just go to another thread. I purchased my Mac for pro audio use, and Apple has let me down, big time.

I, for one, am glad to hear of these problems. It'll save me the time, money, and grief from buying another piece of garbage.

flyfish29
Jan 11, 2004, 08:09 PM
regardless of an issue with noise or not, the lemon law does not "give you the product for free" and is not intended to do that. The intent is to provide you with a chance to get a product that performs as stated. Here is the text from the web site he referred to. I see no mention of free products or money back and you get to keep the product????

Quote: "If the warrantor fails to meet this obligation, most of the lemon laws provide for a full refund or new replacement vehicle."

Get the facts straight before you attack someone and claim you can get something for free!

Get a life too. :D

GeeYouEye
Jan 11, 2004, 08:20 PM
If you're doing pro audio work, either a) you should be in a relatively sound-proof room separated from the machine if you need to have a mic, or b) not have a frelling open mike while working! Some common sense here people!

Electrical noise is another issue, but not with PowerMacs, from what I've seen.

This guy sounds like an ambulance chaser. And a troll.

Oh, and CHUD is not third party software.

Sean bh
Jan 11, 2004, 08:58 PM
Wow, all these post in less than 2 hours, awesome, I should have posted here before. This is GREAT, keep the post coming. This board is VERY alive, phew, I thought I would only get a few posts regarding this issue, I wish other sites had users that had their own opinions to share. Thanks.



Oh and by the way, the noise comes through the speaks now matter HOW you hook them up to the G5, whether it is via a fireware device or directly connected to the Mac, so if its in another room, down the hall, it does not matter, and about the CHUD not being a 3rd party, okay so I was wrong, but um, you fail to realize that it doesn't matter to what I was trying to imply the chirping noise. I personally do not think one should have to install additional software to make the G5 run with out noise, especially when you have to open the CHUD application every time you reboot the computer. And it only take part of the problem. You can still hear the mouse every time you move it, so when editing it gets very frustrating.

Keep the posts coming.

Sun Baked
Jan 11, 2004, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by Sean bh
1. Oh and by the way, the noise comes through the speaks now matter HOW you hook them up to the G5, whether it is via a fireware device or directly connected to the Mac, so if its in another room, down the hall, it does not matter...

2. I personally do not think one should have to install additional software to make the G5 run with out noise, especially when you have to open the CHUD application every time you reboot the computer...

And it only take part of the problem.

3. You can still hear the mouse every time you move it, so when editing it gets very frustrating.

Keep the posts coming. 1. Yes speakers do tend to make noise (in the audible frequency range), they all do. If you don't want noise to come out the speakers. Hook up a set of clay bricks to the machine -- they don't make any noise at all.

2. If CHUD is solving a bit of the noise. It's the fans. CHUD is changing their speed. Try new fans.

And place the machine of a SOFT surface -- carpet, a mutilated teddy bear, etc. -- the hard case both transmits and changes the sound.

3. The MOUSE is too noisy... are you serious? Please take your head out of the horses ...

http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?postid=519751

crazytom
Jan 11, 2004, 09:24 PM
Originally posted by GeeYouEye
If you're doing pro audio work, either a) you should be in a relatively sound-proof room separated from the machine if you need to have a mic, or b) not have a frelling open mike while working! Some common sense here people!

Electrical noise is another issue, but not with PowerMacs, from what I've seen.



It's not an issue of the computer noise getting into a microphone. If you're mixing on the computer, you need to be by the computer. I don't have 50 foot USB cables nor do I want to run to another room to put a CD in the drive to burn a clients CD. My recording space is well isolated from my control room. If my Mac made less noise than a 2" tape machine, I'd be happy with it, but it's about 4 to 5 times as loud---and that's with my Mac being under a desk!

When I first got my MDD, it made a clicking noise in my monitors when the fans were on their lowest speed. An update from Apple took care of that...the fan no longer runs on the lowest speed anymore.

Don't get me wrong. I will use my common sense: as soon as a good alternative comes along, I'm selling my MDD faster than the RIAA can sue the next 12 year old girl illegally downloading music.

crazytom
Jan 11, 2004, 09:34 PM
Originally posted by Sun Baked
2. If CHUD is solving a bit of the noise. It's the fans. CHUD is changing their speed. Try new fans.



Fans would be the major problem on any system. Various noises leaked into the electrical system due to variable speed fans. That's why you don't see studios with dimmers on their lights...they can cause a lot of electrical interference...they don't always get onto a recording, but they do cause havoc.

As for the noise coming out of the power supply, I'd gander that there's capacitors or something that isn't quieted by some silicon and allowed to vibrate at whatever frequency. Check out the insides of almost any large piece of gear, you'll see caps with goo all around them...they make noise unless they are dampened by something.

And, CHUD, basically sleeps your processors as much as it can, therefore generating less heat and the need to cycle up the fans. CHUD doesn't do any good when you're running your system at full tilt.

Mblazened
Jan 11, 2004, 09:37 PM
Originally posted by kettle
yeee!

What's the top three repairs on the G5 thus far?:)

Top repairs:
1. Bad Logic board due to bad memory banks
2. Bad Logic board due to bad firewire ports
3. Bad video cards, believe it or not.

Bear in mind these are the top repairs of G5's that have come to my shop for repairs. Individual results may vary.

iJon
Jan 11, 2004, 10:01 PM
Originally posted by Mblazened
Top repairs:
1. Bad Logic board due to bad memory banks
2. Bad Logic board due to bad firewire ports
3. Bad video cards, believe it or not.

Bear in mind these are the top repairs of G5's that have come to my shop for repairs. Individual results may vary.
i have a feeling your not suppose to disclose information like that, probably a real easy way to get your certs stripped, may want to watch out.

iJon

Sean bh
Jan 11, 2004, 10:07 PM
Dude, relax okay, yes I am serious about the mouse, IT DOES make noise, a VERY LOUD noise when I move the mouse or move it over the dock to access an application, while I am editing sound or dialogue, it is IMPOSSIBLE to do it properly when hooked up to professional Studio monitors and hear a LOUD scratchy/windy type sound. It completely masks other sounds that are less noisy when trying to EQ.


So YES I AM SERIOUS. If it doesn't bother you, then that is awesome! I am happy for you. For sound mixing, it is not acceptable.

When you reply to this, which I am sure you are itching to, do you think you might try to do it constructively with out putting me down or others down?. It only shows ignorance and lack of class on your behalf.

If you feel the need to satisfy your urge to bash me, do it constructively and with out being rude.

Show some love here.

There are more serious issues in this world to be so upset to put someone down because of computer problem they are having.

crazytom
Jan 11, 2004, 10:11 PM
I used to have sounds come through my speakers when I used the mouse, also. But, I soon discovered that my speakers were too close to my monitor. I had to change speakers to some that were shielded and that cleared that problem up.

iJon
Jan 11, 2004, 10:18 PM
ill agree with sean on that, when you move the mouse over the dock, or just open folders that SATA drive just cranks along with all kinds of noises, me it doesnt bother me but i can understand his frustration, other than that the computer is silent to me.

iJon

crazytom
Jan 11, 2004, 10:34 PM
Sean,

If you'd like a little history of what went on with the G4 noise, visit g4noise.com (http://www.g4noise.com/). That should provide you with a little history of what people said and how Apple reacted to the G4 noise problem. That site was probably the biggest instigator on forcing Apple's hand to do something, but there were a lot more issues with the G4...

From where I'm sitting, if you're machine is quieter than 35db, you're sitting pretty. I just looked at the specs on some SATA drives: 25db when idle, up to 35db when fully spinning---that's kinda loud, especially when tucked inside a metal box!!!

Sun Baked
Jan 11, 2004, 10:39 PM
You deserved the lawyer comment, after all you did come here to stir up trouble -- you didn't come here for solutions...

As far as the mouse making noise when your recording, stop playing with it -- and get a cat.

Though the cat is likely to only eat half the mouse, and leave you with a nasty smell in your studio. But at least it'll stop making noise.

---

And a computer isn't a lemon because some smartass lawyer, with visions of a class action lawsuits dancing through their head, has a client who failed to properly research a product purchase.

Sean bh
Jan 11, 2004, 10:48 PM
Hey, you got a valid point there.
However, it does not change the issue, plus I am allergic to cats, but thanks for the tip.

Sean bh
Jan 11, 2004, 11:13 PM
But the noise is NOT the G5's fan, it is the AUDIO, here is an example, I have a protools system, I can hear all the noise that I have mentioned through my Speakers, I have high pro audio monitors, the mouse movement, chirping, high pitched hum, etc can ALL be heard through my Speakers whether the protools (audio editing system, hardware and software based) is launched or not, whether the Hardware is on or off.

Second, I have ran Multiple tests, the simplest one, was connecting regular desktop gaming speakers to the 1/8th" analogue audio outs on the back of the G5. WITH NOTHING connected other then the audio cable and the power cable, you can hear all the chirping, high-pitched buzzing, etc through the speakers.

The sound from the Fans or the SATA drive are fine, below normal. This issue is not about them. its ANY speakers or audio monitors connected to the G5 either directly onto a hardware device that is then connected to the G5 via Firewire.

The Noise is not acceptable for the Pro Audio world or Music. Whether it's mixing or editing or anything.

simply put, its an error on apples side for releasing a product claiming to be the QUIETEST of their line of computers.

To really get in depth on this, since I can only post and write so much, go to Digidesign.com and to their support site and search Chud or G5 noise or to apple.com

You will have a better insight on this. crazytom I am not directing this post at you, just everyone else. So when others reply, they have something to back it up with.

And yes if you take something defective to get it fixed numerous times, you can get a new one. It all depends on the angle you address the problem.

If you G5 does not have this problem or it does have it and yet it doesn't bother you or interfere with your work. Then you don't have anything to say, this is for those who are in the same boat as, those "44,000" sites I have found searching on the net regarding the G5 noise issue and also to whom these post are intended for, to some that's a small number and nothing big. to me, a 1,000 people complaining is a large number. Just my own opinion, that's all.

Sun Baked
Jan 11, 2004, 11:40 PM
>Sean bh

Quite a few of the complaints are the mechanical noise the G5 creates, which isn't damped out by the snazzy metal box -- but made worse by it and the surface it rests on.

crazytom was trying to help you with the RFI noise you're having a problem with, many have talked about the older speakers and cables causing RFI bleedthrough into the speakers/cables they're using on the G5. Making them move the speakers and/or swap the speakers/cables for shielded products.

And with all the fans/motors and various frequencies the G5 is running at -- I wouldn't be surprise if some machine shunt more RFI to other equipment nearby than others.

But they do meet FCC guidelines for the class machine they are.

yamabushi
Jan 11, 2004, 11:53 PM
I have never heard a G5 make any of the noise that you describe but if it is caused by electrical interference there are a few things you could try.

First, shield all of your cables. Some patch cables come in shielded versions while others you may have to jury rig by wrapping them in a dense material such as aluminum foil. Sounds silly, but I have seen it work. Be careful to keep bare metal away from electrical components. Next, position your speakers and CRT monitors as far away from your sound gear and computer as possible. If the CRT still gives you trouble you can try switching to an LCD.

If you still get noise then it is probably due to an electrically noisy interior in your G5. Generally speaking, inside a computer the power supply, fans, power cables, and certain motherboard components cause the most elecrical noise. This is a more difficult problem to fix yourself but let's give it a go, shall we?

First we can reduce any current electrostatic buildup on the motherboard with either professional antistatic spray or less expensive antistatic spray for clothing. In the U.S. we have a product called Static Guard that works fine on circuit boards despite being meant for clothing. The cheap stuff can leave a bit of a sticky residue however. Give the motherboard a good spray with the unit off and unplugged. Try to stay away from the fans so as to avoid getting the stuff in their bearings.

More drastic measures would involve putting some kind of metal screen between the electrically noisy components and the motherboard. Again, use care to avoid touching bare metal to circuits and keep the interior clean of dust. The most likely offenders in the G5 are its numerous fans. While they usually are very quiet to the ears, they likely give off a considerable amount of EM noise. Placing a metal screen on the inside of the fans to block some EM noise but not airflow may do the trick.

Of course it would be nice if Apple could solve the problem for you. I wouldn't count on it, though.

Sean bh
Jan 12, 2004, 12:18 AM
From speaking to a few engineers in Post facilities, the problem actually lies in the power output from the power supply not being filtered properly. This noise has nothing to do with cabling or speakers or bad/good firmware cable, etc.

I have tried this on numerous Dual G5's.
Connect any good quality desktop computer speakers, Harmon K, Creative Labs, JLB, anything for like $100 to the analogue audio outs and the power cable ONLY, NOTHING else, have the speakers as far as possible from the G5. You will hear a high pitched chirping and constant noise. You can hear the mouse as its moved ANYWHERE, especially over the dock. Whether the Mac is on carpet, metals, desk or wood.

This is a flaw in the system, since NOT all Dual G5's have this, but a good amount do. I got one that does. Digidesign (protools) is aware of this as well and has also received numerous complaints, and so has apple, not all tech's there are aware but a good handful are.

Simply go to APPLE.COM and read the support-discussion-"G5 Noise" or "CHUD" and you will see exactly what I am talking about. there hundreds of post there on this matter.

Sun Baked
Jan 12, 2004, 12:32 AM
And does it also do this over optical digital audio out?

Sean bh
Jan 12, 2004, 01:05 AM
I don't know, in the pro audio world the audio outs are not really used much and I have not come accross any threads mentioning it. Since either pro-audio uses firewire, usb or PCI cards for professional AD/DA not a computers converters.

But I am sure in a mixing room where the accustics are built well and the PRO speakers are set to the standard volume of at least 85dB, it will be heard.

Even a whisper at that volume can be heard clearly and loud.

absolut_mac
Jan 12, 2004, 01:16 AM
Originally posted by flyfish29
Get the facts straight before you attack someone and claim you can get something for free!

Ummm, hate to disagree with you, but if the manufacturer cannot repair your product after 4 attempts, you are entitled to a full 100% refund, or a new properly working product. Guess which option is cheaper/best for the manufacturer?

Fortunately for us on the left coast here, California has very strong consumer protection laws.

In a worst case scenario one can always take them to small claims court, as a friend of mine once did in a dispute with American Express. AE never showed up (I guess they didn't want to send a $300/hour lawyer down there who might have to sit around for 5 to 8 hours), so he won. AE sent him a check 2 weeks later for the full amount. End of dispute!!!

Small claims court takes a little longer, but is good for disputes under $5,000. The judges are usually sympathetic to consumers as long as one is reasonably articulate and has good records to show that one tried in good faith to have the defect taken care of.

Shakepeare might not have cared for judges and lawyers, but without them we'd still have exploding Pintos, Ford Explorers rolling over etc!!!

crazytom
Jan 12, 2004, 10:30 AM
Sean bh,

Does the noise problem affect all sound input devices (PCI, USB, and FW)? or is it limited to FW?

(I'm lazy today and don't want to wade through thousands of posts to find out.)

Thanks.

DIGITAL
Jan 13, 2004, 11:27 PM
I think the G5s are very quiet compared to the PCs that are so loud it sounds like a jet taking off.

Sean bh
Jan 14, 2004, 12:19 AM
the noise as far as what I have read and experienced comes from the analogue audio out, the speakers in the mac if nothing is on and anything using the FIREWIRE that uses speakers for monitoring..


As far the PC being louder then the MAC, possibly, but in this case, NO OTHER SYSTEM, has a high pitched chirping sound and a scratchy noise when the mouse is moved, when you are hooking up professional monitors for audio and at high dB's, it is LOUD and thus makes the G5 unusable for audio mixing and or editing

ima_pseudonym
Jan 14, 2004, 12:51 AM
Originally posted by absolut_mac
Ummm, hate to disagree with you, but if the manufacturer cannot repair your product after 4 attempts, you are entitled to a full 100% refund, or a new properly working product. Guess which option is cheaper/best for the manufacturer?

Ummm, you still paid for the original machine - so you didn't end up with a free G5, you ended up with a G5 that you paid for that functions within spec.

He spammed in the buyer's guide with a title that made it sound like you could get a free computer. Misleading title to drum up awareness for his little crusade.

Rower_CPU
Jan 14, 2004, 01:08 AM
Thread moved to more appropriate forum and title changed to reflect actual topic.

Let's not be disingenuous about thread topics, folks.

Mblazened
Jan 14, 2004, 01:09 AM
Originally posted by iJon
i have a feeling your not suppose to disclose information like that, probably a real easy way to get your certs stripped, may want to watch out.

iJon

Hmmm, possibly, but how the heck is apple supposed to know who i am? I have not disclosed my tech ID here.

Sean... go buy a freakin' PC if you hate apple so much.

Sean bh
Jan 14, 2004, 01:50 AM
Um.. Hmm, when did I say I hate apple? I do not hate apple, all the work I do is about %90 on an apple. It's the fact that their flagship unit costing $3,000 that does not work properly that I am not exactly content with. And for Post Audio work, PC is not suitable, unless you are running and AVID adrenaline system, anyways, I have a PC.

Mac G5 with Panther 10.3.2 is an AWESOME machine, the way it works, functions, interchange of files from other formats, etc is excellent, the POWER is awesome for running all kinds of apps at one time ONLY if you do NOT CARE about the noise issue, ONLY if you are not using it for Protools, AVID, Finalcut Pro, or any other PRO AUDIO/VIDEO work.

if you are not using it for that purpose and do not mind the system chirping at you, hearing the mouse moving through your speakers, hearing a Ticking sound, a high pitched hum/buzz, hey, go buy it!

Another thing that just bothers me personally and this has been told to NUMEROUS people as well, since I have seen this quote in other posts here and at Apple, and other sites, is that they say this is normal. Hmmm
Just some food for thought here people, $3,000 for a FLAGSHIP computer that has a major noise problem and apple saying its normal is like buying a FLAGSHIP Car from Lexus for $65,000 and it steers to the right and the dealer saying, oh yeah, we have had people mention that, its normal.

Umm... . NOT

absolut_mac
Jan 14, 2004, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by ima_pseudonym
Ummm, you still paid for the original machine - so you didn't end up with a free G5, you ended up with a G5 that you paid for that functions within spec.

Apologies if my response wasn't clear enough.

Obviously one doesn't get the original G5 for free (unless one won a competition or something), just a brand new replacement to replace the defective one. That is, if it really is defective and cannot be repaired by the manufacturer by the fourth attempt.

As one wise sage said "There ain't no free lunch!"

jovanni
Jan 17, 2004, 05:10 AM
Sean, you're absolutely right! I'm experiencing the exact same problems, besides the fact that my hard drive also crashed just yesterday but s..t happens.

I also use my G5 in a professional studio setup and the occuring noises are inacceptable. I also tried everything from different cables (although I have been using shielded ones from day one) to "nap off" and it still doesn't work properly.
"Nap off" is NOT a solution for professional audio/video production.
Your description of the customer asking about the noise he hears on his audio material has happened to me in the exact same way!
You can't just say "Oh, I just bought this new computer from Apple and don't worry about the noises, that's normal" I mean that is not what you want to hear when going into a studio, be it pre or post production.

Hopefully Apple will come up with an appropriate solution for this soon. And there are definitely too many people that have the same issues so please take these complaints seriously.

applemacdude
Jan 17, 2004, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by Sean bh

And it only take part of the problem. You can still hear the mouse every time you move it, so when editing it gets very frustrating.

Keep the posts coming.

Ayy Pobresito, que quires? Una galleta?

Sean bh
Jan 18, 2004, 05:18 PM
Defend Apple all ya want, but extra noise coming out the speakers is just plain poor engineering regardless if you use your computer for professional audio or making family movies with iDVD. It was obviously an oversight on Apple's part and they dropped the ball. Of course they don't want to suck up the cost to replace tons of power supplies. There is an 800+ thread on Apple's site about the problem yet they haven't announced an official fix for this. Some people suffer from the problem, some don't, it all depends on whether your system kicks into the NAP mode. Who knows what environmental conditions are for everyone, but the LAST thing ANY consumer should have to worry about is performing shotty workarounds to eliminate an annoying churp. I don't understand how you guys can defend Apple saying it's not a big deal just do this or that and it goes away. It never should have been there in the first place and the last thing people should be concerned about is installing an unsupported application widget that Apple recommends YOU DON'T DO in order to put a band aid over the issue.
In summary, it's freakin crappy design. Either Apple was cutting too many corners and this one bit them in the a** or their engineers just truly made a devestating mistake but Apple isn't providing a whole-hearted fix for this.

saabmp3
Jan 18, 2004, 07:51 PM
Maybe this is just me, but I always thought the lemon law applied to cars and cars only. That would make alot of sense because it says "vehicle" in the quotes before this post.

Anyways, your not going to get the newest G5 when you bring yours in, they'll give you exactly what you bought, nothing less, nothing more. This is especially true if it looks like your trying to cheat the (which it looks like you are).

Benjamin Grefe

crazytom
Jan 18, 2004, 08:36 PM
Sean... go buy a freakin' PC if you hate apple so much.

I'm sorry, but it's responses like these that don't help anyone, and really irritate me. Mblazened, you're the tech, maybe you could shed some light on what the problem could be? Surely you aren't paid to defend Apple, and if Apple made perfect machines, you'd be out of a job (well, out of a job of fixing Mac's anyway). Don't get me wrong, I think it's very generous of you to share the top Mac problems with us. You appear, by far, to be the most qualified on this thread to enlighten us by sharing your knowledge.....

absolut_mac
Jan 19, 2004, 12:04 AM
Originally posted by saabmp3
Maybe this is just me, but I always thought the lemon law applied to cars and cars only.

Can't speak for other states, but here on the left coast (California) lemon laws apply to all new products.

Meaning that the consumer is entitled to receive a product that is in 100% perfectly good working order, or a full 100% refund or a brand new replacement if it cannot be fixed by the 4th attempt.

Of course, sometimes there's a discrepancy whether a product is defective or not. Most companies over here don't bother disputing customer's claims unless they are outrageous, because the courts usually side with the consumer :)

Sean bh
Jan 19, 2004, 12:27 AM
Well actually if anyone read the entire site that I had a link to regarding the Lemon Law, the law applies to ANY purchase over $25.

But anyways...

The reason I started this whole thing not just on here, but else where, was to get responses, I dont' care if it's possitive or negative or if I am getting bashed or WHATEVER, I had an agenda and it was met. ANYONE reading this or any of the posts, that was considering purchasing a G5, whether they read a pos or neg post, can clrearly see its not something worth buying and that NO ONE out of the THOUSANDS of posts (posts here and else where on mac sites) has DENIED that the G5 has a noise issue. Some have expressed its only minor, or its just annoying, or what ever, Bottom line, it has a MAJOR noise, that is emitted via Speakers, connected either directly or Firewire. Also Informing the Audio Post Community, such the Engineering Deptartments, IT, Sound Mixers at Film and TV, and radio Facilities in Souther Cali, the BIG studios and Small, have now opted not to buy them.

A 100 now not buying? a loss of revenue of around $300,000.
And all it took was a google search under "G5 Noise" and then just copy and paste.
about 20 minutes of time. Loss of, hmm, dunno.

Oh well, hope they fix it soon and admit there is a problem when contacting Tech at Apple.

MegaSignal
Jan 21, 2004, 12:22 AM
After living through the loudness of my MDD Dual 1.25, I vowed to NEVER go through that mess again. By the way: My Dual 1.25 was about $3300 when new, the Verax fan kit cost $365 (took two of these kits before I received one that worked right), plus an additional purchase of two Panaflow ballbearing fans for another $100...or so. Now it is "sorta-kinda" quiet. Now, with thousands of posts scattered throughout the 'net with regard to (of all things) a G5 noise problem, the no-go decision to purchase one is easy to make.

In conclusion: this is precisely what any company will try to avoid at any cost: losing the customer base!

Hope does indeed spring eternal, however: if the Rev B takes care of these issues, than I'm back, baby!

Gaudzilla
Feb 4, 2004, 12:48 AM
I have had the same problem shaun has mentioned. I love my G5 having been a PC user and builder. I do audio and film editing. There is a funky little ghost in the machine, I am sure apple will have many complaints ,I think it is only the Dual 2 machine that have had some issues.
The pulsing chirp is very loud when speakers are on, so mine are off for the time being. I have no doubt that apple will make good on solving the issue. When I first bought the dual 2 I went through 2 units, because the mouse would work intermittently. The tech at the apple store had no clue on what it was.....returned it. Bought another dual 2 online same problem, I thought this could be a software problem, sure enough as soon as it could upgrade from 10.2.7 to 10.2.8 problem solved.
I plan to call apple tomorrow and see what they suggest, being that I bought the apple protection plan.

Rower_CPU
Feb 4, 2004, 01:18 AM
Have any of you with noise issues tried the fix listed on this page?

http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/G5/G5_noise_tips.html

jgb
Feb 9, 2004, 01:30 AM
I do believe that the lemon law may be applicable here. Apple has brought this upon itself by selling a product not fit for its intended purpose. Apple itself has made the claim of ultimate fitness for this purpose.

http://www.apple.com/software/pro/audio/

This circuitry noise issue is a showstopper for anyone who depends on this tool for their livelihood, and people are losing revenue due to this problem.

Anyone in the industry understands this problem and knows it is real. This is not a subjective matter. It's not any user controllable SW parameter or third party HW config issue. It's not because someone didn't RTFM. It even happened to the guys at Mix magazine, and they have every incentive in the world for it to work! (find "hiccup" in article below)
http://mixonline.com/ar/audio_taking_live/index.htm

For an analogy, no one should accept a brand new LP that crackles due to factory created scratches, or a TV that has snow on every channel. That's a defective unit.

I also believe that there is risk on the bleeding edge of technology, but the manufacturer needs to acknowledge the problem and provide a fix. Has Apple done that yet? Kind of, but not enough... Do they not know of this or misunderstand? Impossible.

I hope they do fix this, because if they can, I'll buy one!

Mav451
Feb 9, 2004, 02:41 AM
Originally posted by MegaSignal
After living through the loudness of my MDD Dual 1.25, I vowed to NEVER go through that mess again. By the way: My Dual 1.25 was about $3300 when new, the Verax fan kit cost $365 (took two of these kits before I received one that worked right), plus an additional purchase of two Panaflow ballbearing fans for another $100...or so. Now it is "sorta-kinda" quiet. Now, with thousands of posts scattered throughout the 'net with regard to (of all things) a G5 noise problem, the no-go decision to purchase one is easy to make.

In conclusion: this is precisely what any company will try to avoid at any cost: losing the customer base!

Hope does indeed spring eternal, however: if the Rev B takes care of these issues, than I'm back, baby!

I thought Panaflos are only about $4-5/fan. Even the L1A's.

By the way, whoever posted the G4Noise.com link, that is possibly one of funniest things i have seen. I only saw one, but it was enough to make me laugh--yes, he has an accent, but what makes it funny is that anyone of any culture understands that noise = bad, and alot noise is even worse.

And to think that the old skl AMD palomino's only shared that honor (and only with the 43CFM, 50dbA Deltas.)

On another note, when the nForce2 motherboard was released, it too had problems with the audio than ran through its "SoundStorm APU" that was located on the Southbridge.

Eventually, it was found that this SB chip was overheating constantly--most users ended up putting a generic 10buck Northbridge cooler on it, and their sound problems went away. These sounds problems included clicking noises when moving the mouse, an overall background hiss/snap*crackle*pop* kind of noise.

jgb
Feb 9, 2004, 12:47 PM
The G5 is clearly out of spec with this noise problem. ANY audible hiss, click or chirp or crackle would exceed this standard on an exponential basis.

Digital Audio Out
Output sample rate: 32 kHz, 44.1 kHz or 48 kHz
Signal-to-noise ratio: Greater than130 dB
Total harmonic distortion + noise: Less than -130 dB (0.00001 percent)


Again, the buyers did not "imagine" that this unit was marketed as the be-all end-all for audio.

I swear if they fix it I would buy TWO!!

jovanni
Feb 10, 2004, 02:19 AM
I had a chance to test 7 different dual g5 powermacs, all new and both dual 1.8 and 2 Ghz cpu at the store. You won't believe it, every single machine had the noise issue! That makes 100% for me so far! The only g5 that didn't have the noise was one with a broken processor. It would only start up once and then instantly died...
I know of a few studios that are working on a law suit against apple because of this major f..kup.
Well I still love this computer and fortunately I have found support directly at Apple. None of these weird call center technicians telling you lies about changing the psu and so on.

I have an official statement from Apple saying that an exchange of the psu didn't do the trick so far. They as far as rev. e on these now and after what I experienced it has to do with the dual cpu 'cause so far I know the single processors don't have these problems.