iPhoto in Japan/Europe and iTunes Soon? [turned political]

[MacRumors]

At MacWorld Expo SF 2004 (http://www.macrumors.com/events/mwsf2004.html), Steve Jobs finally announced that iPhoto Photo Books and Prints will become available in Japan later this month and Europe in March. This brings some long-awaited iPhoto Services (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/07/20030721103214.shtml) to users outside the United States.

TimesOnline.co.uk (registration req) (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/printFriendly/0,,1-2-957945,00.html) provides some hoping that iTunes will soon follow

Peter Jamieson, chairman of the British Phonographic Industry, said yesterday that he "hoped and prayed" that Europe's record and music publishing companies could reach an agreement to allow iTunes, which has sold more than 30 million 99 cent songs in America, to start trading in Europe by April.


While this offers no clear knowledge of the negotiations, May 2004 had been a rumored (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/10/20031006021444.shtml) target date for the European iTunes service.

Indeed, with HP's recent announcement to ship iTunes-installed PCs starting June to their over 110,000 retailer outlets worldwide, there is speculation that iTunes Europe will be in place in this timeframe.

[DanUk2003]

I REALLY hope this is true.

iTunes Music Store can't come to the UK and the rest of Europe soon enough as far as I am concerned!

Here's hoping...

[j763]

...And if you live in Australia, don't get high hopes.

Those who work for Apple Australia are the biggest pack of wankers you'll ever find...

[curmi]

I'm not sure Apple Australia even know that the iTunes music store exists. There is little chance we'll ever see it unless Apple US can somehow do a deal so that we can use the US version of the store...

[Macmaniac]

Hopefully the Music service will be extended to our friends in the frozen north, there are millions of people out there, come on record companies, understand there is money to be made!

[adamsan]

Now that the corpulent old farts that run the record industry have finally realised they can make a few bucks from this internet thing they'll spend 2004 falling over themselves to get every territory on earth signed up. After all, the bloke from the BPI is 'hoping and praying' that the cashflow starts as early as possible.

[ITR 81]

Apple will probably open another music store up in next 2 months.

If they don't I would really be surprised.

[Stella]

iTunes to Europe would be excellent.

(I'd be able to use my UK Visa card to buy stuff!)

Hope Canada isn't far too far behind.

[kettle]

Stuff waiting for Europe and god knows how many layers of bureaucratic bu11***** and fat cat lawyers wasting everybodies time and money, lets just get the U.K. iTMS up and running.

[mod. edit - Don't circumvent the profanity filter.]

[pkradd]

I seriously doubt there will be an "iTunes Music Store - Europe". There will be, however, iTMS France, iTMS England, iTMS Italy, iTMS Germany, etc. Each version will have their own site. Remember, there are many different languages, artists and label affiliations in each country. It's much more complicated then people are willing or able to understand. Most of the delay in developing these other iTMS locations has to do with the artists and not "the old corpulent farts in the record business." Stupid comments by pimple-faced post puberty teenagers not withstanding!:p

[totally_fly]

As if the US's northern neighbors don't matter. We still don't have the iPhoto service, nor iTMS or anything else! C'mon Apple... Canada rules!

[kettle]

Originally posted by pkradd
Most of the delay in developing these other iTMS locations has to do with the artists and not "the old corpulent farts in the record business." Please explain which part of this process will not involve the "legal industry" wasting as much of their highly profitable time as humanly possible?
oh and I think the well known phrase that eluded you was infact "post-pubescent"

[jero]

JAPAN! JAPAN! JAPAN!

[CrackedButter]

Am I the only one who is no longer excited about an iTunes music store?

Sorry to sound negative but I don't feel much for it, at first I thought it was cool. now i'd rather go to the shop and just buy the CD along with a genuine hard copy along with the cover art oh and the .WAV file so I can choose the bit rate in which to encode my music.

Since the itunes store was launched I gave it some thought as to how DRM would affect my life, I suppose it would be easier for us mac users because everything is compatible with all of Apples products, they own the whole system. I understand its better than the windows side of things. But there is even a very light flavour of DRM in DVD's i've thought its best to stay clear of the whole DRM totally and not buy digital copies or DVD's at all. That way I don't have to worry about jumping through hoops in order to watch or listen to various peices of media which I would own anyway.

So is it just me who thinks this?

[airbag]

Originally posted by pkradd
(...) Most of the delay in developing these other iTMS locations has to do with the artists and not "the old corpulent farts in the record business." Stupid comments by pimple-faced post puberty teenagers not withstanding!:p

Well that, too! But, has more to do with European copyright-enforcement and distribution-deals etc. Quite a complex and old system that now has to be re-written.

I'm the one who submitted the May 2004 hint, and I did it because of some quite believeable information from a trusted source. I hope they manage to keep the time-table, but nothing is for certain - we ARE talking about the record-industry here!

I'll keep you updated if I get any more info.

[fatfish]

Originally posted by CrackedButter
Am I the only one who is no longer excited about an iTunes music store?

Sorry to sound negative but I don't feel much for it, at first I thought it was cool. now i'd rather go to the shop and just buy the CD along with a genuine hard copy along with the cover art oh and the .WAV file so I can choose the bit rate in which to encode my music.

Since the itunes store was launched I gave it some thought as to how DRM would affect my life, I suppose it would be easier for us mac users because everything is compatible with all of Apples products, they own the whole system. I understand its better than the windows side of things. But there is even a very light flavour of DRM in DVD's i've thought its best to stay clear of the whole DRM totally and not buy digital copies or DVD's at all. That way I don't have to worry about jumping through hoops in order to watch or listen to various peices of media which I would own anyway.

So is it just me who thinks this?

I don't think your alone, just part of an extremely small minority.

[Macmaniac]

Originally posted by jero
JAPAN! JAPAN! JAPAN!
I think the Japanese ITMS is coming soon in the spring, I think I heard someone in Apple announce that.

[Mac]

This is wonderful news for us on the Eastern Hemisphere. The language and country issue is in my opinion not very real. Most Europeans that I know speak English fluently and almost all my European friends buy from US/UK net stores. The language or currency or other issues are non-existent.

In my opinion a European store would be wonderful. Look at www.play.com. They have a huge customerbase from ALL of the European countries. No problemos for them!

iTunes Europe great suggestion. Logistics wise it is also smart.

[jeffy.dee-lux]

...all tucked away down there."

i don't get why canada would be behind europe on this one. It just seems so much simpler. only one other language to set up, and uhh... probably other reasons, maybe... oh yeah, we're only one country so licensing the service and all that stuff should be easier, making deals with the canadian music industry and all that...
anyways, i don't even know why i care, i don't have a credit card and i like buying my music as complete cds anyways, since i don't have enough money for an ipod and use a diskman.
so i'm alright with just being able to hear previews, it makes it easier to find cds i wanna buy, hahaha.

oh wait no, i want ITMS to come to canada, not for me maybe, but so that:
1- more people will have a legal alternative to downloading illegally which i think lots of people up here will adopt, as i'm seeing more and more advertisement by artists and companies which seem to really get across to people about the immorality of stealing people's work.
2 - and also more people will get itunes and ipods, giving apple more business, which i seem to care about for some reason...

[djjon]

Originally posted by pkradd
I seriously doubt there will be an "iTunes Music Store - Europe". There will be, however, iTMS France, iTMS England, iTMS Italy, iTMS Germany, etc. Each version will have their own site. Remember, there are many different languages, artists and label affiliations in each country. It's much more complicated then people are willing or able to understand. Most of the delay in developing these other iTMS locations has to do with the artists and not "the old corpulent farts in the record business." Stupid comments by pimple-faced post puberty teenagers not withstanding!:p
iPhoto prints are currently available in Canada and are .49 US for a 4x6. I remembered reading that somewhere so I just checked and they are available.

[Stella]

Originally posted by CrackedButter
Am I the only one who is no longer excited about an iTunes music store?



You have a good point, especially for Canada...

...Downloading Music for free is legal in Canada..

[mproud]

What about Argentina? Brazil? Mexico? South Africa? Kenya? Nigeria? Egypt? India? Australia? New Zealand? Korea? Indonesia? Russia? China?

The list goes on and on. I wouldn't be surprised if there will be a worldwide announcement at some point. Maybe not this year, but there are just so many countries that aren't EU - and there are so many that make up the whole.

[mproud]

Originally posted by pkradd
I seriously doubt there will be an "iTunes Music Store - Europe". There will be, however, iTMS France, iTMS England, iTMS Italy, iTMS Germany, etc. Each version will have their own site. Remember, there are many different languages, artists and label affiliations in each country. It's much more complicated then people are willing or able to understand. Most of the delay in developing these other iTMS locations has to do with the artists and not "the old corpulent farts in the record business." Stupid comments by pimple-faced post puberty teenagers not withstanding!:p The formation of the EU does make things easier. Just because in France they speak French and in Germany they speak German doesn't mean that they won't get a deal done.

Yes, each localization will have their own version. But I believe that Apple is negotiating with the entire EU as one entity. Non-participating countries (i.e. United Kingdom, Sweden...) will have to be done separately (and probably will come afterwards).

[diego]

I wish they launch an iTunes Music Store Mexico, iTunes and iPod are incredibly popular over here, most of my friends have even switched to mac.
Mexico and Latin America Store please

[moose.boy]

Err..... Britain is in the EU. It's just that we havn't gone and scrapped our own currency for that of the Euro.

We're waiting until dubya gives into president blairs pleeding and s***s him good and propper so that we can become the 53rd state.

[mproud]

I can't stress this enough - I think the deal with HP is frickin' AWESOME!

This is exactly what Apple needs to do. Make powerful allies!

Excellent, I say - excellent:

Pepsi
AOL
HP
...McDonald's? (maybe not?)

[Stella]

So, the European price per tune will be the equilivent of

#0.99,

whilst the UK will have the special price UK price of #1.50 per tune

... whilst the iTunes UK websit is hosted somewhere within mainland Europe... in the same building as the other European iTMS.

:)


Originally posted by moose.boy
Err..... Britain is in the EU. It's just that we havn't gone and scrapped our own currency for that of the Euro.

We're waiting until dubya gives into president blairs pleeding and s***s him good and propper so that we can become the 53rd state.

[fatfish]

Yes, each localization will have their own version. But I believe that Apple is negotiating with the entire EU as one entity. Non-participating countries (i.e. United Kingdom, Sweden...) will have to be done separately (and probably will come afterwards).

Let's hope not.(UK come afterwards that is)

Surely iTMS for the UK is an easier follow on from the US version and will come first.

As for non participating countries, I'm not sure what you mean, it's only the Û that we don't participate in so far as the EU goes, and we have no problem in purchasing from Europe with our credit cards.

[moose.boy]

for 1.50UKP per track then the iTMS might as wel be at

www.cd-wow.com :)

[mac15]

Originally posted by j763
Those who work for Apple Australia are the biggest pack of wankers you'll ever find...

Lets say a big Amen to that!

[27407]

Originally posted by CrackedButter
Am I the only one who is no longer excited about an iTunes music store?

Sorry to sound negative but I don't feel much for it, at first I thought it was cool. now i'd rather go to the shop and just buy the CD along with a genuine hard copy along with the cover art oh and the .WAV file so I can choose the bit rate in which to encode my music.

Since the itunes store was launched I gave it some thought as to how DRM would affect my life, I suppose it would be easier for us mac users because everything is compatible with all of Apples products, they own the whole system. I understand its better than the windows side of things. But there is even a very light flavour of DRM in DVD's i've thought its best to stay clear of the whole DRM totally and not buy digital copies or DVD's at all. That way I don't have to worry about jumping through hoops in order to watch or listen to various peices of media which I would own anyway.

So is it just me who thinks this?




I completely agree. If I'm going to pay money for it, I want something tangible.

[doogle]

Originally posted by mac15
Lets say a big Amen to that!


Apple Australia continues its journey into invisibility...I wish Jobs would just run Apple Australia from the US.:mad:

[feature]

i want ITMS to come to canada, not for me maybe, but so that:
1- more people will have a legal alternative to downloading illegally

Downloading is legal in Canada. We pay a tax on all our recordable media. This tax gos to the recording industry.

In exchange for this tax we have the right to download media from the web_or P2P or borrow our next door neighbours CD.

What we can't do is willfully upload, sell or offer that information.

It's my guess that this tax is what is throwing a wrench into things. Buying from the music store is like paying twice.

That said i already pay twice as i still buy cds. And when i recently bought my ipod i paid the tax.

[JD!]

Yes, Canada can legally download...so far. This too will change sooner than later. Up here in the "frozen north" according to New Jersey, we deserve iTunes. Alternatives are there for the taking and why would you want to use Apple for photo's when Black's or MotoPhoto do your pics for FAR less money!? Our navel gazing friends to the south can enjoy iTunes for as long as they want. We still do it for free and at least we know where your country is on a map!!

:)

[jwoodget]

The recording industry gets to suck in a levy on CD-Rs and iPods in Canada yet our retail music stores still sell copy-protected CDs (such as the latest from Nickleback). Something stinks (hint: the recording industry). They want their cake and eat it too.

There's talk of introducing a similar levy in the US. You guys should fight it tooth and nail because its simply a cash grab from the industry. We pay an extra $25 for our iPods thanks to the levy (the industry asked for over $200!).

Why can't they (the puiblishers) get it through their skulls that if they treat us with respect, they might get some in return? Scratch that: the artists should recognize this and cut out the middle men.

Back on topic - hopefully Apple will roll out a Canadian music store real soon now....

[CrackedButter]

Originally posted by moose.boy
Err..... Britain is in the EU. It's just that we havn't gone and scrapped our own currency for that of the Euro.

We're waiting until dubya gives into president blairs pleeding and s***s him good and propper so that we can become the 53rd state.

That's 51st state. If you know your politics, Japan would be considered the 52nd. There is no 53rd yet. :)

[sinclairZX81]

Originally posted by kettle
Stuff waiting for Europe and god knows how many layers of bureaucratic bu11***** and fat cat lawyers wasting everybodies time and money, lets just get the U.K. iTMS up and running.

Last time I looked, the UK was in Europe.

[Bakey]

There is no 53rd yet. :)

That'll be somewhere in the middle-East then!?

Give the guy some credit, at least he knows the UK is a part of Europe... :)

[noxes]

What about iTMS Afganistan or Iraq, they deserve it...

Why is it taking Apple so long to get a deal done for Canada, hell PC users already have puretracks.com.

[elmimmo]

Does anyone know if iPhoto prints will be compatible with the free version of iPhoto?

[JDOG_]

I hope the pricepoint for music is £.50/song or something to match American prices...with the Exchange rate near $2:£1 having music priced near a £1 would be brutal. All I know is that I've seen more iPods here in London than L.A. or New York, even in SE (which is considered kind of the dodgy side).

[voodoofish]

Originally posted by sinclairZX81
Last time I looked, the UK was in Europe.

Yeah, they mean the rest of Europe, most people in the UK refer to teh rest of Europe as just 'Europe' as though we were never in it.

[voodoofish]

Originally posted by feature

It's my guess that this tax is what is throwing a wrench into things. Buying from the music store is like paying twice.


Exactly, that's why those taxes are ludacris. Some people see that as the solution to illegal music downloading, but it effectively condones it and punnishes people who buy music legally.

[caveman_uk]

Originally posted by kettle
Stuff waiting for Europe and god knows how many layers of bureaucratic bu11***** and fat cat lawyers wasting everybodies time and money, lets just get the U.K. iTMS up and running.

[mod. edit - Don't circumvent the profanity filter.]
Just wondering but do you see a European Union conspiracy in everything? I laughed when I saw your post about BSE being an EU attempt to destroy the British beef industry. They'll be outlawing wet Mondays, city-center thugs and reality TV next and all those other quintessentially British things...

[kettle]

Originally posted by voodoofish
Yeah, they mean the rest of Europe, most people in the UK refer to teh rest of Europe as just 'Europe' as though we were never in it.

The sooner we get the EU to be called the United States of Europe and we leave the term Europe for Geographical descriptions the better. Canada is in America but Canada is not in the USA.

an iTunes track will cost more numerically in EU states that have signed away their rights to sovereignty. These states will uses the Euro as currency, that's if they don't go bust in the mean time, have you seen unemployment for Germany and France lately, didn't think so, it's not the sort of thing that makes the news. I'm really not sure that many could afford the relative luxury of downloadable music.

I heard that in Brussells, the Government vehicles had to change identifiabl licence plates because the locals are doing so badly out of the EU that they would vandalise any Govenment car they could find.:( hmm. things really are not that rosey in the U.S.E.

[X-Baz]

the problem will be that the labels and artists will have separate publishing deals for each country in the EU - which will then need separate iTMS deals for each country

[Stella]

Since in Canada, we get taxed due to the wishes of the music industry, I think this law is a *good* thing.

They get their taxes, and we get to download music legally...

Music company cannot have their cake and eat it... no matter what they want.

Music company want free money, and treat the population as a load of criminals...


Originally posted by voodoofish
Exactly, that's why those taxes are ludacris. Some people see that as the solution to illegal music downloading, but it effectively condones it and punnishes people who buy music legally.

[kettle]

Originally posted by caveman_uk
Just wondering but do you see a European Union conspiracy in everything? I laughed when I saw your post about BSE being an EU attempt to destroy the British beef industry. They'll be outlawing wet Mondays, city-center thugs and reality TV next and all those other quintessentially British things...

If only it were a laughing matter. I hope the day never comes when your whole way of life is changed irreversably on the whim of a few. Find me the figures which show that these BSE precautions were nothing but devicive and over reactive strategy. More people die of food poisoning as a direct result of unregulated food imports than ever have or will die of BSE.
You just carry on following the piper and enjoy yourself laughing at others very great expence.

The next thing you can laugh about is Lord Sainsbury's ruling on genetically modified crops. You can amuse yourself with his Portfolio of GM crop produsing farms, alegedly kept in a blind trust and free from his influence.
After that you can chuckle about milk imports and milk quotas.
This country is a really good laugh when you look at it like that.

[caveman_uk]

Do you or your family own a dairy farm or something? You seem to have a real chip on your shoulder about anything cow-related.

FWIW I kept on eating beef through the BSE scare as I'd been eating it during the time up 'til then so I was already screwed anyway. I wasn't laughing at BSE per say - more your blind belief that the EU is the cause of Britains problems. If that's the case then you won't mind if we stop paying over the odds for food because subsidies keep the price artificially high. Subsidies mostly paid by the common agricultural policy of the EU and levied on every consumer in Europe.

I was questioning your vehement opposition to the EU and why you mention it in nearly every post you make. Not your views about agricultural policies.

[Mac-Xpert]

Originally posted by kettle
an iTunes track will cost more numerically in EU states that have signed away their rights to sovereignty. These states will uses the Euro as currency, that's if they don't go bust in the mean time, have you seen unemployment for Germany and France lately, didn't think so, it's not the sort of thing that makes the news. I'm really not sure that many could afford the relative luxury of downloadable music.

Let's not get to negative about the economics in Europe. Sure things ain't great here in Holland neither, but I'm sure I (and many others) can still afford some iTunes track for 0.99 euro a piece :)

[CmdrLaForge]

It would be really really great if this comes true. The Music Store for Europe is really coming late.

[caveman_uk]

Originally posted by CmdrLaForge
It would be really really great if this comes true. The Music Store for Europe is really coming late.
And it would mean I'd have to change my sig twice in a year...now...let's go for all three and make Sherlock useful outside the US;)

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by noxes
What about iTMS Afganistan or Iraq, they deserve it...
They don't need one. They are already part of the US.
Soon enough we'll be watching the Denver Broncos against the Mesopotamian Dragons in the Baghdad Superdome... :)

Oh well...

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by JDOG_
I hope the pricepoint for music is £.50/song or something to match American prices...with the Exchange rate near $2:£1 having music priced near a £1 would be brutal. All I know is that I've seen more iPods here in London than L.A. or New York, even in SE (which is considered kind of the dodgy side).
I think we are gonna get something like 79p/89p a song. Considering that CD prices (play.com notwithstanding) roughly follow the $1 is £1, I think you are dreaming when you ask for 50p a song. I think the expression I'm looking for is 'rip-off Britain'...

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by caveman_uk
let's go for all three and make Sherlock useful outside the US;)
My question is: why? Do you reallly think that Sherlock is worth the bother?

[Winston Smith]

A lot of generally negative comment for a thread thats rated positively......

Personally I've chosen not to buy an iPod until iTMS is available where I live and I think the price is appropriatly inline with the exchange rate at the time.

[caveman_uk]

Originally posted by NicoMan
My question is: why? Do you reallly think that Sherlock is worth the bother?
A valid point - I just like to get my money's worth out of Panther:D

[Stoffel]

Cannot wait to buy my first songs in the german iTunes store. At this time we can browse the available music in the store with iTunes but get a sad message if we want to buy it....

[doogle]

Originally posted by NicoMan
They don't need one. They are already part of the US.
Soon enough we'll be watching the Denver Broncos against the Mesopotamian Dragons in the Baghdad Superdome... :)

Oh well...

Is the Macintosh user generally more aligned to the left (I am talking politics here)? I notice across the Mac boards a real lack of right wing flames when people post things like the above....not that I disagree I feel comfortable knowing that I there are like-minded (Apple) people out there.
Is Macrumors the place for lefties or is it Think Secret - or is Spymac the home of new conservatives.
Just a thought.

[fearless]

Originally posted by doogle
Is the Macintosh user generally more aligned to the left (I am talking politics here)? I notice across the Mac boards a real lack of right wing flames when people post things like the above....not that I disagree I feel comfortable knowing that I there are like-minded (Apple) people out there.
Is Macrumors the place for lefties or is it Think Secret - or is Spymac the home of new conservatives.
Just a thought.

Dunno, but only America's biggest jingo would take offence at NicoMan's irony... compared to some of my postings at Apple, it's mild...

Left and right really depend on where you are... Australia's Labor Party (left) are as militaristic as the Liberals (right)... in NZ even the most diehard conservative will admit that the evidence for WMD was, at best, flimsy...

[edStar]

Originally posted by Macmaniac
I think the Japanese ITMS is coming soon in the spring, I think I heard someone in Apple announce that.

I recall reading an article stating that staff at the Ginza store notifying costumers of its introdution "sometime in fall". So there must be some clout behind that.

Also I think Australia is missing out on the iPhoto Book Publishing, which is a real shame. Digital Photo Printing is starting to take off, why not floor the competition with not only iPhoto 4 but with these splendid books??

Also some upstarts have begun a small, yet pathetic music service in Australia already. Apple and Co. seize the opportunity to have #1 market share in Australia!!! You have little to NO competition down here, you'd be a shoe in. And once you establish yourself, it be hard for those clone services in America to translate as well as iTunes Music Store did.

COME ON!!! There is MONEY to be had out of Australia! Don't forget about us, just because we are small and insignificant!!!!

(I must apologise for the excessive use of exclamation marks, those responsible for the exclamation marks have now been sacked. Thank you.)

[doogle]

absolutely his post was not aggressive in any way - it got me thinking, is all...where are all the rightwing loons?

back to topic...

they will never get an iphoto printer in Australia. iTMS, maybe one day...the market here is too damn small!

The problem holding us all back is regulation and national laws...get rid of 'em! If we had an International Internet Content Law then maybe things like gloabl iTMS would be easier.

But then the US wouldn't sign any International Law;)

[applefans]

Originally posted by pkradd
I seriously doubt there will be an "iTunes Music Store - Europe". There will be, however, iTMS France, iTMS England, iTMS Italy, iTMS Germany, etc. Each version will have their own site. Remember, there are many different languages, artists and label affiliations in each country. It's much more complicated then people are willing or able to understand. Most of the delay in developing these other iTMS locations has to do with the artists and not "the old corpulent farts in the record business." Stupid comments by pimple-faced post puberty teenagers not withstanding!:p

Isn't that internet is cross border and international? Why can't we people living outside the border of US use the iTMS located inside USA? Downloading songs from it should like a breeze. Of course, there are issue of local interests, just like amazon, we don't necessarily go to amazon uk to purchase if we live in the uk, we can go directly to amazon usa if we want to. Isn't that right?

[ssamani]

Originally posted by kettle
The sooner we get the EU to be called the United States of Europe and we leave the term Europe for Geographical descriptions the better. Canada is in America but Canada is not in the USA.

Alternatively we could just refer to it as the EU to avoid confusion with Europe. ;) No need to raise the hackles of the UK Tory party by calling it the USE.:eek:

[kettle]

Originally posted by ssamani
No need to raise the hackles of the UK Tory party by calling it the USE.:eek:
the EU was based on trading and standards agreement. It is quite obviously something different than that and I think deserves a name to identify it as such.

As far as your point on "left right" politics go, this situation has very little to do with the party political traditions of this country.
I have more respect for Tony Benn than Tony Blair. Tony Benn has the interests of Great Britain at heart. Tony Blair is more interested in his chances of Presidency of th U.S.E.

[hob]

Originally posted by pkradd
I seriously doubt there will be an "iTunes Music Store - Europe". There will be, however, iTMS France, iTMS England, iTMS Italy, iTMS Germany, etc. Each version will have their own site. Remember, there are many different languages, artists and label affiliations in each country. It's much more complicated then people are willing or able to understand...

That doesnt stop them opening iTMS UK!!! Oh, sorry - curency conversion to much for apple? :@ :P

Hob

(I Love Apple, Really)

[JFreak]

there will probably never be such a thing as the united states of europe. or at least it would require an imminent and serious military threat from outside to make it happen; lately they were arranging a mutual protection pact between all EU countries, but it failed because they feared some countries would misuse such a pact.

no, it will not happen by economical or political reasons. the only thing that could make it happen would be a third world war.

so...

if apple can make it happen (same rules and prices for everyone), that's really something.

[pingin]

Originally posted by CrackedButter
Am I the only one who is no longer excited about an iTunes music store?


No.
Give me the CD anyday and I'll rip it myself. And you can always buy and sell a CD 2nd hand anyway as the mood suits you.
The best thing about the iTunes store is the samples - combined with allmusic.com it's a great way of discovering new music.

I'd like to the see the iPhoto store though...

[pingin]

Originally posted by CrackedButter
Am I the only one who is no longer excited about an iTunes music store?


No.
Give me the CD anyday and I'll rip it myself. And you can always buy and sell a CD 2nd hand anyway as the mood suits you.
The best thing about the iTunes store is the samples - combined with allmusic.com it's a great way of discovering new music.

I'd like to the see the iPhoto store though...

[lord_flash]

British NOT European

So you live in the Falklands, then?

[keysersoze]

RE:
Err..... Britain is in the EU. It's just that we havn't gone and scrapped our own currency for that of the Euro.

We're waiting until dubya gives into president blairs pleeding and s***s him good and propper so that we can become the 53rd state.
_______________________________________________________

That was the funniest thing I've read on this site. I love Brits. There should be more of em.

[MavanAtapattu]

I'm fed up with people who blame everything on Europe.

Re. the nonsense about BSE earlier. BSE is the fault of greedy farmers. They get paid vast amounts of subsidy from the tax payer, plough up the countryside, cut down the hedgerows and then sell us meat that is going to kill us. I've got no time for them.

I've also got no time for the iTunes music store. If I really want the music I'll buy it on CD or vinyl, if I think it might be nice to listen to from time to time I'll download it for free. If I want to be generous with my money I'll give it to charity, not multinational record companies.

[lord_flash]

Originally posted by MavanAtapattu
I'm fed up with people who blame everything on Europe.

Here, here! And, for those in the UK who are obsessed with the idea of buying music via iTunes, perhaps they should consider the possibility that I'd be looking at if I were Apple. iTunes for countries in the Euro-zone, none for those stragglers with their own, increasingly insignificant and uncompetitive currencies.

It's odd, but much of the hostility I hear about Europe comes from direct benificaries. Farmers, who get a fat cheque for doing nothing, or people in our cities which have all benefited from the European Regional Development Fund.

If you wanna be xenophobic, that's fine, but at least accept that it comes from a small-minded fear of minor cultural differences rather than the assorted other excuses you hear in the UK press. For example, all the papers went on at length about the weakness of the Euro for it's first year. Now it's stronger than the Pound you don't hear a thing about it...

[caveman_uk]

Originally posted by lord_flash
Here, here! And, for those in the UK who are obsessed with the idea of buying music via iTunes, perhaps they should consider the possibility that I'd be looking at if I were Apple. iTunes for countries in the Euro-zone, none for those stragglers with their own, increasingly insignificant and uncompetitive currencies.

Personally I wouldn't blame them if they did. That the UK is the largest market in the EU for ipods is probably the main reason they won't.

[caveman_uk]

Originally posted by lord_flash

If you wanna be xenophobic, that's fine, but at least accept that it comes from a small-minded fear of minor cultural differences rather than the assorted other excuses you hear in the UK press.
A lot of people seem to believe we in the UK have more in common with the US than the Europeans. Anyone that's been to the US will tell you that it's quite different to the UK - we just happen to share a language (give or take). Apart from the Europeans speaking languages other than English I've always felt that I had much more in common with them rather than the Americans.

That's not meant as an attack on the Americans in any way. After all aren't we alll supposed to 'Think Different' around here?

[keysersoze]

When's Steve going to open iTunes Mars?

Dubya's not only taking on the world, he's taking on the whole solar system. Apple should stake its rightful claim.

:D

[kettle]

Originally posted by lord_flash
If you wanna be xenophobic, that's fine, but at least accept that it comes from a small-minded fear of minor cultural differences rather than the assorted other excuses you hear in the UK press. For example, all the papers went on at length about the weakness of the Euro for it's first year. Now it's stronger than the Pound you don't hear a thing about it...
You just made that up.
The Euro is weaker than when it was launched. It is weaker than the Pound.
You just made that up.

[kettle]

Originally posted by caveman_uk
Apart from the Europeans speaking languages other than English I've always felt that I had much more in common with them rather than the Americans.

I'm glad you identified this as a personal afiliation to Europe.

I'm suprised you have such a selective connection with recent history.

[caveman_uk]

Originally posted by kettle
You just made that up.
The Euro is weaker than when it was launched. It is weaker than the Pound.
You just made that up.
When launched in 1999 (Jan IIRC) the Euro was worth 72p. It went down to 62p and is currently 69p. If you viewed the Euro vs the $ then the Euro is much stronger now than it was though I'd have to admit that has more to do with the weakness of the dollar than anything else...

[caveman_uk]

Originally posted by kettle
I'm glad you identified this as a personal afiliation to Europe.

I'm suprised you have such a selective connection with recent history.
Have you ever been to the US or Europe or is Wells as far as you've travelled? Even a cursory experience of actually being there rather than what you see on TV will tell you we socially have more in common with the Europeans than the US.

[lord_flash]

Originally posted by kettle
I'm suprised you have such a selective connection with recent history.

What, exactly do you mean by that? 'Recent history' is a fairly relative phrase, isn't it?

We could say that, in the last ten years (that's recent, right?) the US has continually tried to hamper UK/US trade through tariffs and that the US has made the UK a military and terrorist target through it's actions (e.g. installing SDI technology in bases there that does not protect the UK). In the same period, the EU – admittedly in it's slow and bumbling way of agreeing things between states – has ensured that all staff get a minimum holiday allowance, human rights are protected by an international court and, perhaps best of all, it's easier to pop abroad on holiday.

Of course my suspicion is that, by 'recent history', someone is refering to armed conflict across Europe. Seriously, that was a long time ago and it was war the UK started to defend our friends in other European states. The sooner people who seriously consider the political thinking from the late 1930s as a way to dictate the future have died out (or at least stopped voting) the better. Then the rest of the world can get on with making things a bit better. For one, I don't want to show my passport when I travel on the Eurostar. I don't like carrying that photo of me around...

[lord_flash]

Originally posted by kettle
You just made that up.
The Euro is weaker than when it was launched. It is weaker than the Pound.
You just made that up.

Hmm... clearly in Somerset (where I was born, by the way) you don't get a fair or balanced reflection of the news.

January 2nd 2002 GBP/EUR 1.6
January 2nd 2003 GBP/EUR 1.54
January 2nd 2004 GBP/EUR 1.42

You can prove anything with facts. So long as it's true. The 'weaker' myth is perpetrated by the right wing press, which was my original point. You believe that the Euro is weak because the papers you read (and TV) immediately went quiet when the facts no longer fitted their politics. I suggest you complement your Telegraph/Sun/Daily Mail (with up to date news on Princess Diana) with the FT if you want to argue about currency.

[kettle]

Originally posted by caveman_uk
Have you ever been to the US or Europe or is Wells as far as you've travelled? Even a cursory experience of actually being there rather than what you see on TV will tell you we socially have more in common with the Europeans than the US.

Wow, that told me, your opinion is obviously superior to that of my own. However, I fail to see the relevance in quoting an estimation of a persons travelled miles and backing it up with a factual statement eluding to my locality in order to give weight to the initial inaccuracy.

The true argument is not to whom we feel there is more common ground, It is a simple question of whether you believe these Islands of Great Britain should be governed by people not on these Islands.

The ideals of travel and convienience have no real place in the decision. I'm sure the Pro Europen Ruled Britain would like to make the question much less simple.

I love the Europeans and the Americans. I just don't want them running Great Britain.:) It is a simple as that.

[lord_flash]

Originally posted by kettle
The true argument is not to whom we feel there is more common ground, It is a simple question of whether you believe these Islands of Great Britain should be governed by people not on these Islands.

The world is already rulled, to some extent, not in Westminster, Brussels or even Washington, but in the private boardrooms of Microsoft, Sony, and their illk, and of course, OPEC.

I don't see why having an elected representative sitting in Westminster making local decisions and another in Europe making wider decisions is such a problem. It's how the US works, for example. For me, it's more important that either location makes decisions that genuinely benefit their people.

The EU has quite a good record there, from my perspective (social chapter especially) whereas Westminster government was responsible for misconcieved plans like the poll tax.

I think there are all sorts of institutional problems in the EU, many of which come from national pride (e.g. the whole parliament moving to Strasbourg for one sitting a year to keep the French happy), but I'd rather we kept it, and sorted them out, than made all our decisions in the UK. Because we sometimes make bad ones. And we'll get left behind.

Oh, and I note you've now gone as quiet as the Daily Mail on the Euro...

[kettle]

Originally posted by lord_flash
I don't see why having an elected representative sitting in Westminster making local decisions and another in Europe making wider decisions is such a problem.

A. Who is going to pay for it?

B. MEPs don't make decisions, they are there to be instructed by the (Brussells) unelect and then report back to the people they represent.

Euro -
Fri 16 January, 2004 14:56
LONDON, Jan 16 (Reuters)
Sterling hits two-month high on broad euro retreat. - Sterling rose to two-month highs against a weaker euro on Friday but also slid to one-week lows against the dollar, broadly tracking moves in major currencies amid a lack of domestic UK data.
The dollar has rebounded against the euro on recent comments from European officials worried about the single currency's strength. This has also taken the pound lower against the greenback but helped it a bit against the euro.

[lord_flash]

Originally posted by kettle
A. Who is going to pay for it?

Me. Glady. I'll pay my tax towards a few more MPs and civil servants on thegrounds that some things make more sense to do at the largest, most efficient level. Like arranging tariff negotiations, suporting agriculture, space programmes, or defence. Other stuff is best left to local governments.

B. MEPs don't make decisions, they are there to be instructed by the (Brussells) unelect and then report back to the people they represent.

Because, of course, those MPs in Westminster (the legistative branch) are never given something to vote on by the executive, are they? And they'd never follow the party line, or the whip, rather than do theright thing by the constituents? Anyway, I think MEPs should have more power.


Fri 16 January, 2004 14:56
LONDON, Jan 16 (Reuters)
Sterling hits two-month high on broad euro retreat.

Two whole months to counter my 2 year comparison, in which the Euro moved less than 2p in value? It's still significantly stronger than it was (by about 20p).

[caveman_uk]

Originally posted by kettle

Sterling hits two-month high on broad euro retreat. - Sterling rose to two-month highs against a weaker euro on Friday
I think the author meant weaker today compared to yesterday. Not it is weaker always. What's so weak about a currency used by 300 million people and is considered second to the dollar in importance? The pound is only important to those living in the UK...no-one else gives a toss.

[grouse]

An EU/european debate on Macrumors, what fun!

Can I just ask, and no I'm not asking how - just if, to our correspondant in Somerset, whether you voted in the last European Elections?

If you didn't then criticising some unelected body, who ultimately appoints the executive, that's how the democratic system works, puts you on rather muddy ground.

And if you are looking at the For-ex reporting, you need to understand the lingo, a "weaker" euro, simply means based on that days trading. op cit "the pound was weaker today against the Yen, Dollar etc", it's shorthand for "fell a couple of pence" etc.

And I could start about the fact that most of our hugely improved social legislation comes as a direct result of the interference of Brussels, as some might put it. Bringing in such interesting concepts as the minimum wage (something the US has had for ages) and employment protection. Nearly every improvement in the UK worker's rights has come from Brussels in the last ten years.

There we go.

But no-one has answered my question from the mini iPod thread about exchange rates, international pricing and profits, to whit....

If Apple goes for a dollar= pound exchange rate which they and many other companies have done in the past, ie electronic product X sells for $499, in the UK sells for £499... then who makes the differential profit? is there a differential profit? Or does it all go to the foreign banking sector?

And how would one find such figures in Apple's accounts?

It was all much simpler for the US tourists when the euro/dollar exchange rate was nearly one for one!

That's all.

[Sayhey]

Oh - Oh, now you went and did it! Dumped in the political threads with the rest of us malcontents. Seriously, it is interesting to read political discussions not centered around US politics. A mention of Tony Benn no less! I haven't heard much about him in awhile.

Anyone up for explaining Berlusconi to clueless Americans?:eek:

[caveman_uk]

Originally posted by Sayhey

Anyone up for explaining Berlusconi to clueless Americans?:eek:
Berlusconi - richest man in Italy. Vast media empire in Italy. Also Prime Minister of Italy. Some might say that the two are incompatible...he doesn't think so:rolleyes:

[caveman_uk]

Originally posted by kettle
A. Who is going to pay for it?

B. MEPs don't make decisions, they are there to be instructed by the (Brussells) unelect and then report back to the people they represent.

A. We will and already do. There's no point pretending that if you close your eyes it will all go away. It won't. The best thing is to try to work within what's there. The 'independent' option isn't an option.

B. So the British MPs represent the views of their constituents and not the views of their party. Interesting.

[Sayhey]

Originally posted by caveman_uk
Berlusconi - richest man in Italy. Vast media empire in Italy. Also Prime Minister of Italy. Some might say that the two are incompatible...he doesn't think so:rolleyes:

Thank you, caveman. Actually, that much I know. The question was meant more as a humorous aside, as in "how did this buffoon become PM of Italy?" Of course, I'm sure many Europeans are thinking the same thing about our King George. I didn't really expect you or anyone else to really answer the question. Sorry.

More on topic of your conversation, if you don't mind me intruding, how do you see the fight over the new EU constitution effecting the UK (helping or harming Labour, Tories, etc.) and do you think the US had a hand in pushing Poland and Spain to their position?

[j33pd0g]

Computer company Apple is now also expected to extend its own music download service - iTunes from the US to Europe.

Well I hope Apple gets to Europe fast! I would not want Napster to beat them to the punch.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3403867.stm

[kettle]

Originally posted by grouse
Can I just ask, and no I'm not asking how - just if, to our correspondant in Somerset, whether you voted in the last European Elections?

If you didn't then criticising some unelected body, who ultimately appoints the executive, that's how the democratic system works, puts you on rather muddy ground.
Yes you can, but inevitably you will fall into the "spoken an infinite deal of nothing" catagory. You are the second person to try and add leverage to their opinion by criticising a factual element of my lifestyle that is an unknown.

What ever you would like to bolt on or unbolt to the question of a Federal Europe, there is one point you cannot argue. The fact remains that if Great Britain loses its sovereignty, there will be no political path to return it, just a bloody path. :(

In a question of if Great Britain "goes it alone" there are obvious answers. If we prosper, we prosper. If we fail, we join Europe with something to gain.

One only has to view the facts for financial contribution to the E.U. to see how much money we would save, or on the other hand how much money Europe would stand to lose.

On the the question of good europian policy, there is no reason not to adopt good ideas for our own, and on the other hand there would be a way of rejecting policy that would damage our islands.

I don't care how well anyone gets on with there neighbours, it is insanity to knock a door through to their apartment, pool incomes and dictate acommon rule for both households. It will only end in tears.

On the question of iTunes/iPhoto printing, judging by the confussion deliberate or otherwise, you can probably get a feeling as to why organising anything on this scale could easily take as long if not longer than a united europe to be properly sorted out.

I've been Kettle from Somerset, it's been nice ranting with you, thankyou and goodnight. :)

[grouse]

Simply see what's best for us, wait until the last minute, then sign up once we've seen if it's going to work or not, and once everybody else has decorated the front room not to our taste.

Always the best the way to go about things, I feel. And then we can always enter the party late and shout about how it's all being done wrong.

Of course it does come down to that slightly disgraced word idealism. Either one has a gut feeling that pooling our resources on the social, economic and environmental front will give us greater say in the world, help to check the military-run, single global power in the world or be isolationist like the good folk of Norway - Not often in the news, doing very well thank you, but not really consulted or involved in any of the great decisions.

I happen to rather rose-tintedly believe in the great european project, for the same reasons that it was formed, which has kept the peace. And the fierce independance of the various states that make up the federation of America, (as well as the strong federal structure of the United Germany) shows how it is utterly possible to break certain things down to a more local level, while having a larger protective structure over a greater whole.

But fundamentally it comes down to ones own instinct. And whether one sees the great opportunities in an extended (up to 25 states this year) Europe or the huge dangers of giving up something as abitrary and fluid as an etherial national sovereignty. Are the citizens of the united kingdom any less proud than those of France or Italy, two countries in at the start of the European Project?

And will someone answer my question about exchange-rate differentials?

[lord_flash]

Originally posted by grouse
And will someone answer my question about exchange-rate differentials?

As I understand it the big winners on this front are Apple (or whoever). Prices tend to be set at 'what the market will bear', and we Europeans, especially in the UK, seem to pay a lot more.

Part of the reason is that exchange rates vary, so prices tend to be set higher outside the home country (in this case the US) so that there won't have to be sudden changes with the fluctuation of the exchange rate.

Apple would also probably point to the extra costs of a European distribution network, but that's obviously a bit rich since they wouldn't sell any products at all if they didn't have that.

Obviously there will be some money for whoever changes Apple's money, however it's done, but bascially Apple will pocket the difference and laugh about how gullible we are in the UK.

Things might, of course, be a little better if we joined the Euro, simply because those prices marketing people like are closer to those of the dollar: Today €199 EUR = $246 USD whereas £199 UKP = $358 USD. Then again, Apple would probably mark it up still further.

[grouse]

To the peer's posting.

Of course, being a lord 'n all, you may be interested in the question of life-peerages, the reform of the house of lords, and a fully-elected second chamber, but then again, that's a whole new thread.

In the meantime, it's Dean or Edwards for me! Kerry is, frankly, slightly scary looking (a bit like lurch from The Addams Family) and Dicky G, nice guy, but surely his time has passed. As for Gen Clarke, he's just bonkers!

[lord_flash]

Originally posted by grouse
Of course, being a lord 'n all, you may be interested in the question of life-peerages, the reform of the house of lords, and a fully-elected second chamber, but then again, that's a whole new thread.

Well, I've thought long and hard about this one, and I tend to feel that the solution is people elected using list-system PR, perhaps every 8-10 years. That way there should be no absolute majority for any one party. There should also be a rule that anyone who has ever sat in the "lords" cannot ever sit in the commons or executive branch, so that career politicians steer clear.

The problem is that much of the time the Lords as-is does a very good job. The law-lords influence especially helps the house come to sensible decisions on stupid or impractical legislation. No one there has to pander to a party line or risk losing their seat, so they have the ability to provide sober second thought. As it's possible to use the parliament act, the elected representatives in 'the other place' are still reasonably empowered.

So, getting rid of herreditary peers good, but now what? I'm torn between an 'if it ain't broke' attitude and a feeling that democracy ought to play a part. In a way though, at present it is a little like having a law vetted against the European Convention on Human Rights before enactment, rather than waiting for it to be declared illegal after enacting it. you don't need elected representatives for that, you need impartial judges. It'd help if the government didn't bring poorly-prepared legistlation to parliament in the first place, but that's (yet) another matter.

[Sayhey]

Originally posted by grouse
To the peer's posting.

Of course, being a lord 'n all, you may be interested in the question of life-peerages, the reform of the house of lords, and a fully-elected second chamber, but then again, that's a whole new thread.

In the meantime, it's Dean or Edwards for me! Kerry is, frankly, slightly scary looking (a bit like lurch from The Addams Family) and Dicky G, nice guy, but surely his time has passed. As for Gen Clarke, he's just bonkers!

While I can't help in the discussion of the House of Lords (we did away with the problem in 1776), I can take a stab at your assessment of the Democratic candidates.

I'm sure that former General Clark (no "e") is happy you are not voting in New Hampshire, but it looks like he is rising in the polls in that State and important Southern and Western States that follow. Michael Jackson view (your General not the singer) notwithstanding most of us don't look at him as "bonkers." He looks to be a good bet to last long into the primaries.

Kerry has overcome his "Lurch-like" looks and seems to be a possible winner in Iowa. Even if he doesn't the buzz will be that his campaign has righted itself and he can't be counted out. He may be the strongest candidate against Bush if he can make it to be the nominee.

Gephardt must show strong in his neighboring State of Iowa in order to continue to have any chance. He has vital Labor union strength behind him, but unless he wins Iowa or comes in a photo finish second he is probably done.

Edwards showing is the most surprising and if he comes in second or third in Iowa he may have a chance to win some upsets later on. He looks like VP material to most people. Not a bad job if you can get it.

Dean is the most disappointing of the candidates in his poll numbers. However, it isn't the Zogby or Gallup polls that matter. He needs to win Iowa because expectations have been so high, but even a close win will end up hurting him. It's clear whatever happens in Iowa, without a total collapse in New Hampshire Dean is in this for the long haul.

There is my tout sheet on the daily horse race of American politics. Notice how issues are completely left out?

[lord_flash]

What? I thought Martin Sheen was the President and everything would be fine. A thousand curses on the decitful nature of TV.

Oh and, since I'm meant to be preserving the 'dignity' of rank in the UK, it's General SIR Michael Jackson to you! Curiously enough, he was the hounarary doctorate when I got my degree, for his services to international law.

Kosovo chap, wasn't he? I'm not very up on guns'n'ammo, since I neither have nor want a right to bear arms. (And there's another big issue one, too...)

[grouse]

That I expect arn or someone to come round personally to my office and slap both my wrists extremely hard with the patented Ronco WristSlapper (it also dices carrots!).

But full marks to Sayhey for his cautious caucus predictions. And apologies to the good General for the extra letter.

Post-Iowa (I did try and stay up to watch, but was found asleep in front of Fox News at 1:30am, dribbling like a loon) it's all most interesting. At the moment, although it's kinda true that the winner in Iowa has only twice gone on to take the nomination (Carter and Bush II ??), the Demcratic Council must be looking forward to a Kerry/Edwards ticket, I'm sad for Dick, but he did run a very anti-Dean negtive campaign which worked for his rivals, and we'll have to see how it shakes out in New Hampshire.

And what's the deal with Lieberman? Has he a hope and where do you think the teamsters et al will go now? that's got to help someone quite a bit.

Apple mini's are the top sellers on the Apple Store (I read on the MacUser.co.uk website) - I mention this as I hear the noise of Arn's massarti growling outside on our driveway - and Coca-cola appear to have got there first in terms of music stores in the UK, has anyone tried it yet? What's it compatible/not compatible with?

Go Edwards!

[grouse]

we've been labelled "turned political".

And here was I about to tell you folks about the fun Coca-Cola's being having with their music store, in the UK's Guardian....

coke falls flat (http://media.guardian.co.uk/newmedia/story/0,7496,1126978,00.html)

What a shame, no really, what a real shame.

;)