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AlphaTech
May 24, 2002, 05:17 PM
Generally, I would equate m$ to Disney and Apple to Anime.

Disney: Expensive productions with ok quality (at best) using old technology as their base for many years. Mostly vanilla flavored, nothing really exciting about it either (except in a few rare cases).

Anime: Less money to purchase, many times the quality of what Disney puts out. Comes in many different flavors and allows you to choose what you want, or don't want. Offers something for everyone from the kiddies up to the twisted adults :D. You can also get Anime in two ways, dubbed or subtitled. Subtitled is for those that are really into it, where dubbed is for those that don't want, or care about, the original voices and content.

Anime is constantly improving with each title bringing something better to the table, just like what Apple does.

Disney has taken ages to even approach the quality standards of Anime, with even their latest releases not being there. Case and point, rent Macross Plus, the new BubbleGum Crisis series (6 dvd's), or Akira (a classic). Compare those to classic Disney as well as releases made up to 2001 (that is when BGC was released). Plan on devoting a weekend to watching these, since Anime takes it's time and actually developes stories (with BGC this is very true). Some other excellent titles are Ghost in the Shell, Sol Bianca (3 dvd's), and Neon Genesis Evangelion (7 dvd's).

I have been a huge fan of Anime for years, as you can probably tell. I usually check out new titles/series and then buy up the rest in fairly short order. Give it a try, you just might like it. :D

teabgs
May 24, 2002, 05:26 PM
OK, good points BUT:

Disney is responsible with coming up with the basic principles of animation.

Also Disney was the first company to bring animation features to the mainstream and thus allow for the coming of anime.

Apple started the entire PC market and M$ jumped in

So you can look at it that way too.

Disney's old flicks were good too...


I'm not a huge anime fan, though i appreciate it, imjust not diehard. I dont really like disney...But I respect them, not as a company, but the actual animators

Mr. Anderson
May 24, 2002, 05:30 PM
And forget Eisner, Disney was an amazing guy, nothing like Bill. There isn't any one guy at the head of the anime style (that I know of) so there's no counterpart to Steve.

AlphaTech
May 24, 2002, 05:30 PM
I was going for what has been produced to date... not who started what.

I was also thinking more of what kind of quality each has curretly. With Anime being first to go computerized, and to push the envelope. Disney had to play catch-up, and is still trying to get to the same quality as Anime puts out. Much like m$ is still trying to get to the same quality as Apple for producing an OS. Also, Anime is typically done over less time, and with less people then Disney uses. Sort of how m$ puts an OS or a new version of an Application out every 1-1/2 to 2 years.

AlphaTech
May 24, 2002, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by dukestreet
And forget Eisner, Disney was an amazing guy, nothing like Bill. There isn't any one guy at the head of the anime style (that I know of) so there's no counterpart to Steve.

I'm not talking corporate structures at all but quality of product. As well as time between releases.

jelloshotsrule
May 24, 2002, 05:35 PM
well you speak as though traditional animation is not as good or somehow inferior. sure it's harder, and older.... but it's often much better... not always, but usually.

it's like saying that film makers who still use film are having to play catch up rather than using lucas-style video....

disney has its goods and bads.

i am not much into anime. the actual animation (of the ones i've seen!) is not as skilled. and as teafoolio said, disney came up with all the techniques of animation.

if you study animation, you study disney...

if you study computers you study..... pcs?

AlphaTech
May 24, 2002, 05:42 PM
alright jelloshotsrule, which ones have you seen, and when?? Take a look at Anime that came out in the late 80's and compare the quality with what Disney put out. Back then, computers were not being used, but the actual quality of the product was higher for Anime. The original BGC series blew the doors off of anything that Disney was producing at the time.

I have been watching Anime since the mid 80's and can tell you that the quality has steadily improved, as has the feel of the animation. You also have writers that can more then hold their own with anything from Disney, and in many cases Hollywood.

jelloshotsrule
May 24, 2002, 05:46 PM
as i said i ain't seen much. i have only seen the crappy stuff in cartoons like dragonball z and whatnot.

don't get me wrong i'm sure there's good stuff..... i haven't seen it. that's all.

and i'm still saying disney created animation as it is.. so that part's not in question..

animation students study disney before they study anime if they study anime at all.

film students sometimes study hollywood, sometimes don't... so it's up in the air on that...

word.

AlphaTech
May 24, 2002, 05:51 PM
Don't judge an entire genra by dragonball, or dragonball z. Even I consider those low quality anime.

If there is a place for you to rent anime, do so, and I really suggest any of the titles I listed above. I firmly believe you will be very surprised by what you see. I just hope you can read fast if you go for the full experience and get the subtitled version. The voices often get mucked up when they transition to english (often tossing in accents where they do not belong).

I think I'm going to kick off my vacation tonight with an Anime fest. I have several dvd's that I have either not watched, or not seen in some time. Looks like a good night to watch some.

jelloshotsrule
May 24, 2002, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by AlphaTech
If there is a place for you to rent anime, do so, and I really suggest any of the titles I listed above. I firmly believe you will be very surprised by what you see. I just hope you can read fast if you go for the full experience and get the subtitled version. The voices often get mucked up when they transition to english (often tossing in accents where they do not belong).


i've been told to do that in the past. never been too inspired to.

but i will eventually. be patient with me...... ha.

yeah, i hate the accents thing. same with power rangers (my niece and nephew were watching it, ok?!!)

AlphaTech
May 24, 2002, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by jelloshotsrule


i've been told to do that in the past. never been too inspired to.

but i will eventually. be patient with me...... ha.

yeah, i hate the accents thing. same with power rangers (my niece and nephew were watching it, ok?!!)

Yeah, suuuure they were ;) But did you turn away, or do something else??? HmmmmmmmmMM????? :D Just messing with ya.

Look at it this way, judging anime by dragonball would be like judging star wars by episode 1.

I go more for the darker Anime then the light and happy stuff. The darker ones have more to them and can keep you interested.

jelloshotsrule
May 24, 2002, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by AlphaTech


Yeah, suuuure they were ;) But did you turn away, or do something else??? HmmmmmmmmMM????? :D Just messing with ya.

Look at it this way, judging anime by dragonball would be like judging star wars by episode 1.

I go more for the darker Anime then the light and happy stuff. The darker ones have more to them and can keep you interested.

i was in africa. there's nothing else to do but gather nuts for food! (that was a funny ignorant thing to say now wasn't it???). i didn't look away. i slept!

episode one was the best movie i've seen in years.... oh wait, no. ok.

alright, what about.... man, i forget the name of the big one... what's the most famous anime called? the movie.... one word... oh, akira? is that it?

how's that?

AlphaTech
May 24, 2002, 06:13 PM
Yes, Akira IS one of the classic Anime titles. Bubblegum Crisis and Crash are also up there in the archives. The NEW Bubblegum Crisis is different then the original. Same writer, but he was given more freedome with the second run, so he made it more like what he originally wanted it to be like. It did take a little time to get rolling, but once it did, you can't step away from it. I ended up watching it all at once, and then went to bed. Let just say, I hope they do another series based on the same stuff.

Ghost in the Shell is also rapidly becoming a must see. If I had a way to send you copies of some dvd's that I have, I would. But, alas, I cannot.

Oh, and what were you doing in Africa??? Or do I not want to know?? :D

Mr. Anderson
May 24, 2002, 06:32 PM
What are your thoughts on Final Fantasy, that had some Anime roots to it?

And the big one that I remember that was all the craze in Japan a year or so ago was Princess Molokai (sp?) I haven't seen that one, I'm like jello, I think of DragonBall Z as anime and its terrible, 8 frames a sec. Zooms instead of actually animating the images. Personally I can't stand it.

jelloshotsrule
May 24, 2002, 06:35 PM
i was in africa visiting my brother and my niece and nephew and my sis in law


and smuggling stuff.



so yeah, i'll check out akira sometime.... word.

oh and final fantasy...

great modeling i though. not so great animation always, but still good

the story. ehhh..

oh well. good anyhow i thought...

AlphaTech
May 24, 2002, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by dukestreet
What are your thoughts on Final Fantasy, that had some Anime roots to it?

And the big one that I remember that was all the craze in Japan a year or so ago was Princess Molokai (sp?) I haven't seen that one, I'm like jello, I think of DragonBall Z as anime and its terrible, 8 frames a sec. Zooms instead of actually animating the images. Personally I can't stand it.

I don't have the spelling for that one either... but it was fairly well done. It also had American actors doing the voices for many of the characters, so it was done that way from the start (not dubbed over later). Armitage is another like that.

Dragonball is like a low end B movie compared to most Anime. Cowboy Beebop is much better (being shown Sat nights on Cartoon network). Check out some of those titles, they give you a better notion of what Anime is. Unfortunatley, they still cut stuff out of them though.

britboy
May 24, 2002, 06:36 PM
Another must-see anime is Princess Mononoke. The animation in there rivals anything disney has cared to put out.

Dragon Ball is just crappy animation, plain and simple. It's like the lowest-quality anime out there. Come to think of it, Pokemon's pretty similar. Why is it that the worst anime's tend to be the most popular? :confused:

Final Fantasy... i'm a big fan of the games series, so how could i not enjoy it?! The story was lame, but the animation... not really what i would call anime though.

edit: ah, you guys were discussing Princess Monoke as i typed... :)

AlphaTech
May 24, 2002, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by britboy
Another must-see anime is Princess Mononoke. The animation in there rivals anything disney has cared to put out.

Dragon Ball is just crappy animation, plain and simple. It's like the lowest-quality anime out there. Come to think of it, Pokemon's pretty similar. Why is it that the worst anime's tend to be the most popular? :confused:

Final Fantasy... i'm a big fan of the games series, so how could i not enjoy it?! The story was lame, but the animation... not really what i would call anime though.

Word up britboy... I haven't seen Final Fantasy yet.... I MIGHT rent it sometime just to see how it is. I do tend to go after Anime a lot more though.

I have this week coming off, which I intend to use to see E2 and maybe another movie in the theaters.

Mr. Anderson
May 24, 2002, 06:55 PM
Originally posted by AlphaTech


Word up britboy... I haven't seen Final Fantasy yet.... I MIGHT rent it sometime just to see how it is. I do tend to go after Anime a lot more though.


If you like Anime, you should see Final Fantasy. It has very much the same feel in a lot of ways, and I think the guy who created it is from the Anime arena, but don't quote me on that. I'd love to here what you think, so when you do see, maybe post a thread and we'll discuss.

teabgs
May 25, 2002, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by jelloshotsrule
and as teafoolio said,

Who you callin "teafoolio" biatch?

That schiznit will get yo' momma killed!

You'se best step off before I bust you upside yo' face! Fool.

:eek:

teabgs
May 25, 2002, 11:27 AM
Princess Monanoke is the BEST anime I have ever seen. And some of the animation in it is amazing!

[animaiton geek rant]

the prob with anime that I have is that its all eye candy but not too good with the actual animation. just look at their walk cycles. :rolleyes:

traditional animation is NEEDED in order to do computer animation WELL. If you know how animation works and understand the principles laid out by early disney then and only then can computers be brought in as another tool. some people think that computers make it easier...well it doesnt. I can crank out something far superior and faster with a pencil some paper and a light box then with a computer. Granted I dont have a strong Background in computer animation yet, but still. WHat it takes to make a ball bounce in the computer is so much harder then on paper.

it depends on style, opinion, and personal taste to decide "what is better". So I thinkwe should agree to disagree. I agree that anime has incredable draftsmanship, but not good animation....that's what disney has...but it looks dumb.

[/animaiton geek rant]

Mr. Anderson
May 26, 2002, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by teabgs
Princess Monanoke is the BEST anime I have ever seen. And some of the animation in it is amazing!

[animaiton geek rant]
I agree that anime has incredable draftsmanship, but not good animation....that's what disney has...but it looks dumb.
[/animaiton geek rant]

I agree, generally with what you have to say, but I don't think (and this is from another animation geek) that all of Disney's stuff looks dumb. They've also evolved their process to include computer animation, which shows. Now they render a significant portion in 3D and hand draw each frame to get the look and feel of a Disney cartoon. This was first obvious to me in Aladin, when he's a the magic carpet and flying through the tunnels and the lava is below. The level of detail and precision with which the perspective was held was obviously 3D. That's when I did a little research and found out, not only that, but the texture map on the carpet was perfectly distorted when it moved or rippled, something that in hand drawn art is almost impossible. But overall, this little trick, aids in giving the animation a truly great look, not like Anime, but with a soft Disney touch.

What it all boils down to is the style and story are different, from both a technical and audience targeted point of view. They are both good but for different reasons and I think that comparing the genres head to head isn't the best way. And now with Pixar, PDI, etc, getting into the 3D animated game, which changes the level of what to expect from an animated motion picture in general.

britboy
May 26, 2002, 07:24 PM
I don't mean to piss anyone off here by going slightly off topic, but is Aladdin available on DVD anywhere? I've been looking for it, so far without success. Doesn't matter what region it happens to be in, if, that is, it's available somewhere in the world...

King Cobra
May 26, 2002, 07:28 PM
Originally posted by britboy
I don't mean to piss anyone off here by going slightly off topic, but is Aladdin available on DVD anywhere? I've been looking for it, so far without success. Doesn't matter what region it happens to be in, if, that is, it's available somewhere in the world...

I'm not sure which version you are referring to, but I found these at Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/002-4688858-1521605).
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britboy
May 26, 2002, 07:38 PM
Ok, let me clarify what i was asking:

Aladdin, released by disney in 1992 (i think), including the voice of Robin Williams as the genie.

btw: the link you provided doesn't work, as i don't have the same cookies as you.

King Cobra
May 26, 2002, 07:41 PM
Edit

My bad, the link led back to that lousy Amazon page.

I even went to Disney's website

http://psc.disney.go.com/disneyvideos/moviefinder/products/0166203.html

and only the VHS was listed.

Disney seems to lack the DVD version. So that probably means so does everyone else.
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britboy
May 26, 2002, 07:46 PM
Damn, not yet released. That's not what i expected. Disney usually seem to eager to cash in on anything that likely to make them a profit...

Thanks KC.

AlphaTech
May 26, 2002, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by britboy
I don't mean to piss anyone off here by going slightly off topic, but is Aladdin available on DVD anywhere? I've been looking for it, so far without success. Doesn't matter what region it happens to be in, if, that is, it's available somewhere in the world...

If anyone has it, the disney store probably does. They are sprouting up in malls all over the place, sort of like roaches.

britboy
May 26, 2002, 07:53 PM
Originally posted by AlphaTech


If anyone has it, the disney store probably does. They are sprouting up in malls all over the place, sort of like roaches.

That's what i'd have thought too. But when i looked in the disney store at bluewater (biggest shopping centre in europe), they didn't have it. Oh well, i guess i'll just wait for it to be released one day. :(

AlphaTech
May 26, 2002, 07:55 PM
Have you looked online for it???

King Cobra
May 26, 2002, 07:58 PM
FYI, I edited my post, so that there is a link to Disney's release (VHS only) of the movie you guys are looking for. There is a small tab on the left that displays something like: "If you would like to see the movie on DVD, click here." From there you have to fill out your personal information, etc.
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britboy
May 26, 2002, 08:06 PM
I'd looked at the amazon.co.uk and dvd.co.uk sites (normally if a dvd exists, it's there), and had searched the US amazon site aswell (although i don't remember seeing that notice there before :confused: ).

I wasn't just asking for the sake of being lazy. Kind of hoped someone might have found it elsewhere. Don't know why i didn't think of going to the disney site :rolleyes:

Wildcat
May 26, 2002, 08:07 PM
Granted that Disney is comprable to M$ at times. But you have to give credit where credit it due. Disney was the first to use a multi-plane camera! also first feature length animation in color (snow white). Anyway you look at it disney is a company that inovates. Even though some of their corprate practices are akin to M$.

Mr. Anderson
May 27, 2002, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by britboy
I'd looked at the amazon.co.uk and dvd.co.uk sites (normally if a dvd exists, it's there), and had searched the US amazon site aswell (although i don't remember seeing that notice there before :confused: ).

I wasn't just asking for the sake of being lazy. Kind of hoped someone might have found it elsewhere. Don't know why i didn't think of going to the disney site :rolleyes:

One of the things Disney does is only release a certain film for a limited time and then they go back into hiding. It happens all the time and it might be the case for Aladin. Although this Xmas might see the rerelease of the DVD since it is the 10th Anniversary (just speculation though)

Its a weird practice, but they've been doing it for a long time. Anyone know anything more about this marketing stategy?