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View Full Version : Microsoft says that the HP iTunes deal limits choice.


MacBytes
Jan 12, 2004, 09:54 PM
Category: Microsoft
Link: Microsoft says that the HP iTunes deal limits choice. (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20040112225442)

Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)

Approved by Mudbug

cybertron3
Jan 12, 2004, 10:20 PM
Who the hell is MS to talk about limiting choices???

Nermal
Jan 12, 2004, 10:29 PM
They (the same guy at MS actually) have said the same thing in the past, when everyone was choosing iTMS instead of the WMA-based music stores. They just want everyone to use their proprietary Digital Restrictions Management, instead of Fairplay.

Stella
Jan 12, 2004, 10:45 PM
Microsoft, its called competition.

Not that they'd know what competition means...

Funny how MS scream as soon as there is realistic competition. Another example of this is when Governments start to consider Linux to replace Windows... MS always say its "unfair" advantage - yes, really that word, "unfair" - go and look at articles.
MS think they have a God given right to sell their junk at the exclusion of other options.

JohnHummel
Jan 12, 2004, 10:47 PM
You are free to choose any color - as long as it's black. - Henry Ford

You are free to choose any government - as long as it's communism. - Soviet Union

You are free to choose any music file system - as long as it's Windows Media Audio. - Microsoft

Sorry to seem overly heavy handed, but this kind of thing just bugs the hell out of me. If Microsoft was all about "choice", they'd be encouraging Napster, Rhapsody and the rest to just be using MP3 or Ogg Vorbis files.

Since they are, this is just sour grapes as yet another plan loses money, and they aren't being allowed to dominate another industry. (Remember - Microsoft makes no money on anything outside of Windows, Office, Servers, and some hardware - everything else (set top boxes, Xbox, MSN, etc) <em>losses</em> money.)

Now, if Apple can just get an iPod that costs $150, we can put a nail in MS's music plans once and for all.

SilvorX
Jan 12, 2004, 10:54 PM
every ***** windows based pc made within the last 4+ years has windows media player installed and/or integrated into the OS so its difficult to remove, and they SAY that the deal is limiting choice..hmm, choice to them is WiMP and only WiMP

mac15
Jan 13, 2004, 12:34 AM
just like its damn near impossible to remove internet explorer. this guy sucks *slap*

Nermal
Jan 13, 2004, 12:39 AM
The thing that amazes me, is with Windows as bad as it is, I'm amazed that so many people still use it! WiMP has been proven time and time again to be a bloated piece of rubbish, yet people still use it.

The other day, one of my friends copied a CD to his hard drive. He then copied the resulting WMA across onto a memory stick, then brought it into class. He tried to open the file in class, and the Digital Restrictions Management kicked in and prevented him from opening a file which he had created himself. I think he learned his lesson though, I fixed it for him, but told him that I was only fixing it on the condition that he never ripped into WMA again :rolleyes:

nagromme
Jan 13, 2004, 01:34 AM
All these HP PC's will surely come with Windows Media Player as part of Windows, just as always. They'll ALSO now have iTunes. And HP buyers, like everyone else, will be free to choose ANY music players, and online store(s) that they wish. They need not select an HP iPod, and need not even use iTunes at all.

So... compared to when HP pre-installed WMP alone without adding iTunes... this new plan represents a LOSS of choice?

Poor Microsoft is less and less able to dupe people with that kind of logic these days :)

SilvorX
Jan 13, 2004, 01:53 AM
I wonder what would have happened if Steve didnt decide to stop letting companies make clone macs, the computer market would be atleast 20% macs, but OSX wouldn't be where it is today probably.

irmongoose
Jan 13, 2004, 03:04 AM
According to the New York Times, Dell also suggests HP is making a mistake. A Dell spokesman said: "We expect competition and it's good for customers. Over time, however, customers will want industry standard choices.''

Yes, industry standards such as AAC used in the iTMS, NOT the proprietary, crappy-sounding WMA which Microsoft desperately wants to dominate the digital music world with.

Are these people so hopelessly scared that they can only come up with this *********? Man, that is beautiful. Just beautiful. I can't wait to see a year ahead, where Microsoft will be crying as Apple kicks their stupid, bloated ass into bed with little Dell tagging along, whimpering like a stupid dog. Ahh... bliss.




irmongoose

Sabenth
Jan 13, 2004, 04:00 AM
You know what ive got a choice of 3 things. Your gona love this i swear..

I can use Linux
I can use Windows
I can use Panther or any other Mac OS

I can listent to music on all 3
I can rip music on all 3 formats

I choose to use A Mac because it dose audio so much better....

HP had done the smart thing well done to them for seening the light of choice. No one looses out MS is still on the PC iTunes is also on the pc as well. like some one said in a previous post the choice is up too the end user.

Microsoft is starting to really piss me off with there complaning about un fair choice. I dont really want to use IE so i dont but i cant get rid of it...

Its bulit in its apart of the OS Crap some choice that .....

Ok i think iam done for the moment..

Sun Baked
Jan 13, 2004, 05:06 AM
Originally posted by Sabenth
I choose to use A Mac because it dose audio so much better....

Microsoft is starting to really piss me off with there complaning about un fair choice. I dont really want to use IE so i dont but i cant get rid of it...Maybe MicroSoft should file a complaint with the US Govt. about this "lack of choice" that Apple is fostering for MicroSoft users with this silly iPod/iTunes music thingie.

It's definitely got to be ruining their plans to make their music apps/service part of the MS Tax Service.

How the heck is MicroSoft supposed to offer a crappy freeTunes music app and an expensive proTunes music app for the PC user to choose from when Apple insists on this iPod/iTunes experience.

This has just got to be ruining MS revenue growth models.

Plus this has got to be confusing for the average MS user when there is a non-MS app on their system. Without Papa Gates to guide them they're liable to actually experience joy in their life.

billyboy
Jan 13, 2004, 05:16 AM
I thought MS was supposed to have a mega marketing and publicity dept. Sounds like their top disinformation guys must be on holiday and left the top dogs to talk bull from the hip.

In all seriousness though, MS must be really running scared that such big seeds of doubt are being sown. HP is by no means a baby outfit, and represent one quarter of Windows audio customers. If 25% of your customer base "suddenly" thinks Apple's way is worth supporting there will be a lot of other industry people looking long and hard at what brought this about turn. Big industry is quite slow to change, but once it does move in a different direction, size comes into play and momentum builds up really quickly. I just hope Apple are geared up to be truly multi-national music providers.

I knew there was a reason why I went for an HP printer.

the_mole1314
Jan 13, 2004, 07:55 AM
Choice has become another clíche in Redmond. It's a powerful word that spurs emotions, even if they don't mean it.

If Apple got Gateway to put iTunes on their PCs, Napster has no chance.

Wouldn't it be cool if they removed WMP and replaced it with iTunes on the HP machines?

Qunchuy
Jan 13, 2004, 08:43 AM
A report in Connected Home Magazine has suggested that HP's deal with Apple will have one other side effect: "The company will be working with Apple to add support for Microsoft's superior Windows Media Audio (WMA) format to the iPod by mid-year."

"Superior"? Someone's smoking something...

xtbfx
Jan 13, 2004, 09:09 AM
Originally posted by Qunchuy
quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
A report in Connected Home Magazine has suggested that HP's deal with Apple will have one other side effect: "The company will be working with Apple to add support for Microsoft's superior Windows Media Audio (WMA) format to the iPod by mid-year."
------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Superior"? Someone's smoking something...

That article is supposedly shot down on MacRumors.com:
Update: From what appears to be a very reliable source, Apple is not currently planning on introducing WMA support in either the HP iPod or regular iPod.

bousozoku
Jan 13, 2004, 10:54 AM
Originally posted by the_mole1314
Choice has become another clíche in Redmond. It's a powerful word that spurs emotions, even if they don't mean it.

If Apple got Gateway to put iTunes on their PCs, Napster has no chance.

Wouldn't it be cool if they removed WMP and replaced it with iTunes on the HP machines?

It's unlikely that Gateway will be doing anything since their sub-$100 players won't work with iTunes. I doubt they want to appear expensive any time soon.

Qunchuy:

Did you notice that the author of the Connected Home article was Paul "Deep" Thurott? :D He is Microsoft's favourite advocate.

pgwalsh
Jan 13, 2004, 12:23 PM
I'm not for WMA at all, but Apple is locking in their product.

Apples DRM for ACC should be licensed to other online stores. Not only that, but I think that other online stores should be represented in the iTunes.. Additionally I think other ACC players should have the ability to sync with iTunes...

Apple clearly has the best Audio Media Application with iTunes and the best digital media player with iPod. So why are they pigeon holding consumers to their products?

Steve argues they have 70% of the download music market and the best experience, but they make no money on the deal. If that's the case, then why lock out other players... All you're doing is limiting your own customers ability to play other DRM music in iTunes (sounds a lot like MS).

iTunes for all media regardless if the music is purchase in a retail store, ITMS, or some third party store, but it must be ACC and Apples DRM.

If they have the best player, then allow others to sync. People that are buying competitors products are doing it for a reason. Could be that they are uninformed, but maybe it's because of the cost of the unit. I don't think they should be restricted for a poor-purchasing decision.

I think if Apple wants to win this battle they'll need to open the doors to more players. HP and AOL are ok, but it's just rebranding. They should have a much more price competitive PMP (portable music player) and compatibility with 3rd party stores and PMP players. Apple aficionados are use to paying higher prices for products. They realize the value they are getting for their dollar. Unfortunately other people in the market don't see the value or don't get the picture.

If they license their ACC-DRM they could gain added revenue. If they open iTunes to other people who use their ACC-DRM they will eventually kill WMA. Continue growing their store and the shopping expereince and the choice will become clear to all users. Lower prices of the digital players and garner that flash player market. Once people get fed up enough with the 3rd party player they purchased, their next purchase will be and iPod. Apple will continue it's dominance in that field with out being a big baby about it and saying "mine."

billyboy
Jan 13, 2004, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by pgwalsh
I'm not for WMA at all, but Apple is locking in their product.

Apples DRM for ACC should be licensed to other online stores. Not only that, but I think that other online stores should be represented in the iTunes.. Additionally I think other ACC players should have the ability to sync with iTunes...

Apple clearly has the best Audio Media Application with iTunes and the best digital media player with iPod. So why are they pigeon holding consumers to their products?

Steve argues they have 70% of the download music market and the best experience, but they make no money on the deal. If that's the case, then why lock out other players... All you're doing is limiting your own customers ability to play other DRM music in iTunes (sounds a lot like MS).

iTunes for all media regardless if the music is purchase in a retail store, ITMS, or some third party store, but it must be ACC and Apples DRM.

If they have the best player, then allow others to sync. People that are buying competitors products are doing it for a reason. Could be that they are uninformed, but maybe it's because of the cost of the unit. I don't think they should be restricted for a poor-purchasing decision.

I think if Apple wants to win this battle they'll need to open the doors to more players. HP and AOL are ok, but it's just rebranding. They should have a much more price competitive PMP (portable music player) and compatibility with 3rd party stores and PMP players. Apple aficionados are use to paying higher prices for products. They realize the value they are getting for their dollar. Unfortunately other people in the market don't see the value or don't get the picture.

If they license their ACC-DRM they could gain added revenue. If they open iTunes to other people who use their ACC-DRM they will eventually kill WMA. Continue growing their store and the shopping expereince and the choice will become clear to all users. Lower prices of the digital players and garner that flash player market. Once people get fed up enough with the 3rd party player they purchased, their next purchase will be and iPod. Apple will continue it's dominance in that field with out being a big baby about it and saying "mine."

They are good points, and could work, but probably not before Apple have absolutely sown up as much as they can with their current "its all MINE" strategy. Its taken iPod 2 years to sell 2 million units, maybe within a couple of years when they have sold 3 million more iPods and 3 million iPod minis then it will be time to nail their advantage home and give everyone a chance to benefit from AAC and Apple technology.

Nermal
Jan 13, 2004, 04:39 PM
Apple don't make any money from iTMS sales. However, they are using their service in order to sell iPods, and therefore make money that way. The moment they allow other players to play their iTMS content, the amount of iPod sales will drop, and Apple will start to lose out again.

By the way, the DRM is called Fairplay, it's from a company called Veridisc. It is not an Apple invention.