macs and musical instruments

[jefhatfield]

hi, i used to sing for a punk rock band from '95-'98

before that, i alternated in singing, playing keyboards, playing guitar, playing bass, and playing drums all the way back to 1976...but mostly i played guitar

right now i have an ltd/esp viper 301 electric guitar and a casio electronic keyboard

my influences are john denver, jim croce, abba, kiss, the beatles, the stones, the go-go's, the bangles, U2, Les Paul, the indigo girls, L7, bebop jazz, the offspring, and opera

that spans the major bands/artists i followed from age 12 to twenty-five+ years later

[Mr. Anderson]

I've never really gotten into the music aspect of macs. I played Sax and Clarinet as a kid, and I understand the basics of music. I'd love to get a midi keyboard (my wife would love it too, she used to play a lot when she was younger). What would be a good set up?

[britboy]

I used to play the bass guitar for a band at my church, 1998-2000. I then got a bit bored of it, and moved to the rear to control the PA and powerpoint presentations. It was more fun that way, as i got to watch others make mistakes. Best part: if a singer was bad, i could turn the mike volume down :D

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by dukestreet
I've never really gotten into the music aspect of macs. I played Sax and Clarinet as a kid, and I understand the basics of music. I'd love to get a midi keyboard (my wife would love it too, she used to play a lot when she was younger). What would be a good set up?

korg workstations or yamaha workstations did it for me and others in the old days...but not sure what is hip today with midi keyboards

[eyelikeart]

I've always wanted to play drums...

but I've never played a musical intrument in my life...

people tell me that I look like I'd be a drummer though...he he he...:D

[mac15]

I can't play anything.......
so maybe I should sing.......;)

[Rower_CPU]

Clarinet and tenor Sax in elementary school.

I started to learn piano but never went far, and it's been one of my goals to go back and teach myself.

I sung choir in high school, bass/baritone. I love singing, especially a good Sinatra tune!:D

[dualburn001]

Guitar! Guitar! Guitar!

The best invension of all time, the guitar!

I play my Gibson Gothic almost evryday and I can't get enough.

Jef, jus wondering...wat was the name of your group, i might've heard of em.
I hear alot of underground punk.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by dualburn001
Guitar! Guitar! Guitar!

The best invension of all time, the guitar!

I play my Gibson Gothic almost evryday and I can't get enough.

Jef, jus wondering...wat was the name of your group, i might've heard of em.
I hear alot of underground punk.

the punk band i was in during the 90s was turn

www.turnrock.com

i am in the first area of pix, from 96-98

the last pix from that gallery is the group of instruments we used then...sigma cutaway dreadnaught acoustic guitar, an ibanez joe satriani, ibanez x-destroyer, jackson rhandy rhoads professional v, gibson les paul custom, no-name p-bass, and fender american standard stratocaster

if you are interested in guitars, read some of my reviews on www.epinions.com and i am jefhatfield there, too

gibson gothic guitars are really cool...i have played the sg model and i like its simplicity and ease of playability...the pix of orville on the back of the headstock is spooky:p

[3rdpath]

cool pics jef!

i've been playing keys and bass forever it seems. my first keyboard set-up was a minimoog, clavinet and a b3 in 1977( i was 16). wish i still had those puppies:( besides a stint in college for a business degree( and serious thought of law school) i've always played music.

i was in one r&b cover band early on and after that have only done originals...just never felt right playing other people's songs. toured a lot. now i sit on my butt in front of my mac and...well...make music.

i love all types of music-my favorite artists(the ones i steal most liberally from...) are the beatles, u2, crystal method, gershwin, BT( his new loop cd is the freakin best!) john/taupin, the vaughn brothers, odds, david wilcox, morricone, herrman, bob marley, bill evans, chet baker and , of course, the fathers of pop music-bach and mozart.

my favorite bass is my musicman stingray and my favorite guitar is my 72 tele deluxe( factory stock with twin humbuckers, strat neck/headstock and tele body...it never sounds the same twice).

where would we be without music? i don't wanna know.

[menoinjun]

I started with piano and trumpet way back when...

Then guitar...

and now for the last 8 years or so I've been playing the bass.

Actually I just bought a new Ibanez 5 string two days ago, with an Ampeg combo. Sounds sweet!

I've even dabbled with the drums. I played drums for a punk band back in college. What fun!!

-Pete

[krossfyter]

man dualburn a gibson gothic!!!! thats one of my favorite guitars. when i first saw that.... i was like "finally" .

i play a gibson les paul gold top. ive been in numerous rock bands in my area. i usually play rythm and sometimes switch to lead. my musical influences are ...... stavesacre, incbus, deftones, helmet, rage against the machine and u2. im starting to learn some jazz techniques by the way. all in all im okay. i probably could be better but i dont care. i just like to jam...its a rush to do it on stage in front of people. i usually care more about creative riffs, licks and sounds...etc. etc. more than technique. tom morello really influences me as far as that goes. him and the edge are own.

[Macette]

i play double bass, tenor & soprano sax, piano a bit, sing a bit, clarinet... etc. oh, flute in primary school.

oh, my dinner is ready. must go.

[eyelikeart]

now we know what jefhatfield looks like!! :D ;)

[britboy]

Originally posted by eyelikeart
now we know what jefhatfield looks like!! :D ;)


Is he the one wearing the batman t-shirt under a white jacket? he he, i like the third picture from the top :D

[Beej]

I play guitar, but man, what I wouldn't give to sing... I might even give up my Mac for a good voice...

I'll post a pic of my axe later.

[Taft]

Fingerstyle guitar. Hours a day. For years.

Try my music. (http://www.mp3.com/MatthewTrumbell) I haven't recorded in a while, but I'll update the page soon with the tons of new music I've got.

Taft

[britboy]

Taft~ i've just been listening to your music for the past hour and a half, and i just wanted to tell you that it's really relaxing. You're pretty good on the guitar, and I'm enjoying it.

Thanks for sharing that link.

[teabgs]

I taught myself guitar in 7th grade. Last year I decided since I could never find any bass players that I would learn. ALso, I was inspired by discovering how great primus/Les Claypool is.

I've always loved bass and Flea from RHCP has rocked my world since the early 90's.

I havent played eaither in 2 months now...tendonitis....shouldnt be on the computer so much.

Oh well, therapy helps a lot though! One day I shall play again...

[Taft]

Originally posted by britboy
Taft~ i've just been listening to your music for the past hour and a half, and i just wanted to tell you that it's really relaxing. You're pretty good on the guitar, and I'm enjoying it.

Thanks for sharing that link.

Thanks! A lot of people say that it is very relaxing.

I'm going to try to break into somewhat more heavy stuff when I record next time. So it'll sound more like Metallica...j/k. But it will be a bit more uptempo and heavier.

Thanks again.

Taft

[iGav]

I love the guitar..... I used to own a Gibson Les Paul, and a Rickenbacker 330 in Fireglo, truely a beautiful guitar and in my opinion the best rhythm guitar available....... I used to play in a band about 7 years ago.... great fun at the time, I just wouldn't have time though now.....

Sold both of the guitars though..... :( a move that I deeply regret....... I'd like to buy another Rickenbacker one day, maybe a 12 string and even though I'm not a fan of Fender guitars.... I really wouldn't mind a Fender Jagstang either!!

[3rdpath]

Originally posted by iGAV

Sold both of the guitars though..... :( a move that I deeply regret.......

nothing like the pangs of regret over sold guitars.( or keys for that matter).
i sold a bunch when i hit hard times in '93...drag, drag, drag.

on the bright side, there are still bunches of them out there and some of the new ones are great. i still can't pass a pawn shop or jumble without taking a look for some old guitar or amp. sometimes i get lucky. i still regret passing up a gibson explorer( a REAL vintage '50's one) in a pawnshop in dallas. it was $800.00, which was a lot of bones at the time, but someone bought it and resold it to billy gibbons for mult-multi thousands. i could put my daughter thru college with it now.:)

[sparkleytone]

tenor/countertenor here.

im being classically trained as a tenor, countertenor is what i do for fun. being a music major is scheduling hell, but i think well worth it.

so my instrument would be...my voice.

[mymemory]

I changed my Legos for an Atari computer and then for a Casio MT 40 (I think) midi keyboard.

I start playing with an Atari computer, a Rolnad JV-80 and a Ensoniq ASR-10 sampler with a band live. The Atari computer could handle just 2 midi songs in ram (the sampler had more memory). Then I got my first mac that was a powerbook 5300 in wich I ran Performer 5.01. using a Midi Time Piece 2.

Then I sold that computer (not to long ago actually) but I had a Power Mac 9600 and a beige G3 desktop.

Right now I have a Roland VJ 90/ 1080/ JP 1080/ Kurweil K2500R, Alesis DM5 and a MTP XT.

I did more 10 years ago with my old equipment than what I am doing right now. :(

[bonehead]

I've been playing guitar for 22 years now. I had a band for the last couple of years of college then just played with friends for a few years after that. For the last 7 years I've played off and on with some other friends in another band. My main guitar is a late 60's Gibson ES-345. I love that thing.

iGav that hurts. Those are two guitars I'd love to get. I have a late 60's Rickenbacker 360-12 that I got for $500 out of the paper a while ago. I don't think I could ever sell it.

[G4scott]

I play the trumpet.

I am the best trumpet player at my school :)

The only downside to playing the trumpet is that it comes with a really big ego, but that's why I'm the best...

What really sucks, though, is that I got braces 2 years ago, and they really screwed up my playing for a while, but i got better. When I get them off this summer, I'll be the best trumpet player in my city!!!

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by iGAV
I love the guitar..... I used to own a Gibson Les Paul, and a Rickenbacker 330 in Fireglo, truely a beautiful guitar and in my opinion the best rhythm guitar available....... I used to play in a band about 7 years ago.... great fun at the time, I just wouldn't have time though now.....



now a rickenbacker would be fun to own...i am not so much into lead guitar these days and i saw a 330-12 for $1699 usd the other day...but with that much money (actually they would sell it much cheaper), i would get the new G4 imac...he he)

i have only one guitar and just two hands and i rarely play that thing like i used to

but the thing about an electric guitar is, they never go obsolete...or at least not as fast as a computer does!

since the spring of 1950 with the introduction of the first "mass" produced electric guitars from fender, there have been a few notable, well received additions like trems in the 70s, active pickups in the 80s, and musically speaking, digital recording in the 90s...but for big, sweeping changes, that's been about it

with macs, from 1984 until now, i can't even begin to list all the groundbreaking changes that we have had, especially since steve jobs has come back on board in 1997

show me the G5!:D

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by britboy



Is he the one wearing the batman t-shirt under a white jacket? he he, i like the third picture from the top :D

i am the only one without an instrument:D

roy is on bass, ray on guitar, and lyndon on drums

now the band is a three piece since i left in 1998 and roy plays bass and sings...they have gone 3 1/2 years as a three piece band and have given up looking for another singer...they thought about this teenage girl, but that would look stupid with three thirty something guys as backup

the style of music has few drinking age people interested due to the fact that it is skateboard music like afi and the offspring with a touch of old metal...new metal is too progressive for these old hacks:D

[Zenith]

It's really fun to read this post and see how many of us who actually play an instrument or sing. It has to be something with us Macusers. I think our right hemisphere of our brains is dominating...

Anyway, I am a musician myself, and I've always been. I'm 19 years old now, and I've been playing piano/keyboards for 19 years (yes, I started before I could even walk ;) ). Now I'm about to study at the Music Conservatorium, jazz, in Trondheim.

Apart from that, I've been playing guitar for about 5 years, bass for about 2 years and drums for about 2 years too. I've always been busy playing in all sorts of bands from progressive rock to jazz.

Here's some links to some of my work. It's all recorded digitally in our studio at home. Even the drums are digital... I would love to get an acoustic set of drums someday.

Deep Impressions - Prog. rock (http://217.13.18.148/mp3/deepimp.mp3)
Philosophic Eternity - Trance (http://217.13.18.148/mp3/TG02_2.mp3)
500 Miles High - Jazz, recorded with my old trio (http://217.13.18.148/mp3/500MilesHigh.mp3)
All Blues - Jazz (http://217.13.18.148/mp3/AllBlues.mp3)

Enjoy!

[sparkleytone]

g4scott, you surprise me.

up until now, i didn't know of ONE trumpet player i don't completely ********* hate. arrogant bastards.

at least theres one.

[G4scott]

Originally posted by sparkleytone
g4scott, you surprise me.

up until now, i didn't know of ONE trumpet player i don't completely ********* hate. arrogant bastards.

at least theres one.

Funny, I hear that all the time from people ;) I am a very sarcastic person, though. You have to have patience and wit to put up with me, and some of my other trumpet playing friends... We can be an obnoxious sort of people, us trumpet players.

The trumpet handshake:
Clasp hands tightly with the other person, and say prominently "Hi. I'm better than you."

[Backtothemac]

Well, right now, I don't have any guitars, but that is what I play. I played in a band here in College, and again in a Two Man accoustic act for a while. I also play the drums, but with a three year old in the house, it is really not a good idea to have a set of those laying around.

I have been playing for about 13 years now.

[bonehead]

I also play the drums, but with a three year old in the house, it is really not a good idea to have a set of those laying around.

Really? Musical instruments are great for little kids. Music education improves their math skills and provides an outlet for self-expression. We had a little drum set and our son loved banging on those things. He loves playing my guitar and will bang on the piano every now and then. It's noisy but fun.

[sparkleytone]

in an improved world, all children from first grade on will get music theory education right along with math.

[Zenith]

Yeah! Music education in the early years of life is a benefit for the rest of your life. It must be a connection between musical knowledge or skills and e.g. math. I've been playing the piano since before I could even walk, and math has always been so easy and understandable.

Many researchers think that everyone is born with an absolute hearing (is that what it's called?), and that everyone who don't do anything music related in the early years of life will lose it and maybe have difficulties with getting it later. I am so thankful for that my parents allowed me to play with the piano when I was little.

[barkmonster]

I was always into the kind of electro stuff in the 80s and early house too (those early acid riffs the chicago producers were doing back then really blew me away when I was 10 or 11 years old). Earlier than then, when I was about 7 or something, I wanted to learn the keyboard, I had to learn the recorder first, lost interest and then it wasn't until I got a sample cartridge for my Atari ST in around 1990 that I started trying to make my own stuff.

I eventually landed a career in DTP in my late teens then from using macs at work and reading the cover notes to a BT album, I got the idea that a mac was going to be my next computer, havn't looked back since and I've had loads of fun moving from soundtracker - Micrologic - Protools LE.

If I could have got a mac as fast as my G3, running protools LE in about 1994 or something I think I would have quite a large page on Mp3.com by now or maybe even an album or 2 under my belt, if I could just quit tweaking a tune and picking about my mixing down skills all the time that is!

I seem to have accidentally ended up being into music that's primarily made on macs too, Artists like NIN, BT, Moby, Dave Angel and Sasha amongst others I'm into.

I'm also sure that if they'd existed back then, Pink Floyd would have made dark side of the moon on a mac too!

[sluthy]

Is it just me, or is there a LOT of music fans in these forums? Says something about the creativity level of the standard Mac user :) I've been playing guitar to 'some' success (i.e. I suck) for about 2 years now, but I have no musical friend, so no band for me.

Anyway, has anyone else heard of Jasmine? It's a free multitracking program that came on a MacAddict disc a while back. Does anybody else here use it?

I wish I could afford to subscribe to MacAddict but at $16 an issue...:(

[King Cobra]

Originally posted by sluthy
I wish I could afford to subscribe to MacAddict but at $16 an issue...:(

Where are you getting $16 an issue? If you haven't realized already, you can get 12 months of magazines AND CDs for $30 if you subscribe (minus tax and that !!!!) That's less than two individual magazines w/CDs.

No offense, but unless I misunderstood the way you worded it, check your math again. Or simply go to MacAddict's website and find out yourself how cheap it is.

We have the subscription...you should too! :)
__________________

Fear the King.

[sluthy]

Originally posted by King Cobra


Where are you getting $16 an issue? If you haven't realized already, you can get 12 months of magazines AND CDs for $30 if you subscribe (minus tax and that !!!!) That's less than two individual magazines w/CDs.

No offense, but unless I misunderstood the way you worded it, check your math again. Or simply go to MacAddict's website and find out yourself how cheap it is.

We have the subscription...you should too! :)


I'm Australian, remember. So...

AU$1 = approx. US$0.52
+ import tax
+ GST
= Very expensive foreign magazines.

"your iMac" from England cost $21 down here, without a CD.
:eek:

[King Cobra]

sluthy, maybe you should write to MacAddict and tell them why you simply can't subscribe, but you really want to. Maybe they'll give you an 85% discount! :)

That's too bad, man.
__________________

Fear the King.

[Backtothemac]

Originally posted by bonehead


Really? Musical instruments are great for little kids. Music education improves their math skills and provides an outlet for self-expression. We had a little drum set and our son loved banging on those things. He loves playing my guitar and will bang on the piano every now and then. It's noisy but fun.

Oh, I think you misunderstood me. I understand the impact on a child that music can have, and we are developing that side of our daughters life. Her uncle is a recent graduate of the University in Music, and also plays Guitar, Bass, and Piano.

We are developing her piano and vocal skills. What I meant was that for our sanity, drums would be a bad idea. ;)

[iGav]

Originally posted by bonehead
iGav that hurts. Those are two guitars I'd love to get. I have a late 60's Rickenbacker 360-12 that I got for $500 out of the paper a while ago. I don't think I could ever sell it.

A 60's Rickenbacker... *Drools* there're the vintage to have......... complete envy....... ;) I've never ever played a 12 string guitar I've heard they're alittle more difficult to play well..... but I'm sure that wouldn't stop me......... a 12 string Rickenbacker through a Vox amp sounds just so amazing....... incredibly rich and warm......... and personally nothing sounds better....... :D The Les Paul.... classic guitar... what else can i say.......

The Jagstang is another guitar althogether...... I've only ever played one once, and the sound it made was just fantastic..... the complete opposite of the Rickenbacker, and such a superb looking guitar.... thing is they seem to go for serious money... so I'm not sure I'll ever own one....... :(



now a rickenbacker would be fun to own...i am not so much into lead guitar these days and i saw a 330-12 for $1699 usd the other day...but with that much money (actually they would sell it much cheaper), i would get the new G4 imac...he he

You should jef, they're like so good to play........ I only really play rhythm guitar (as I can't solo for *****!! :p ) and just find the Rickenbacker the perfect guitar for my style, although to get a really crunchy rock sound effects are needed.... but hey... that's why we have effects peddles!!! :D

[jefhatfield]

effects pedals were the equivalent of the computer was to society

what older players once had to do with their hands, the effects units, especially the 1U rackmounts, can help players like me sound actually competent...he he

when eric clapton started using huge amounts of effects processors (guitar related computers) then i decided they were not all so bad

now that i am a techie, i am no longer scared of high technology for helping me play guitar

i like the new cyber twin...the best of both worlds...the classic twin reverb amp from fender married to a computer with processor and memory...now i just only need a couple grand...he he

[Backtothemac]

My dad has a 1912 or 13 (something like that) Acoustic Gibson called "The Gibson". The name is written in mother of pearl, and the tuning keys are mother of pearl. It is serial number 16 I think. It is a strange looking guitar, but the sucker still sounds good. Anyway, if anyone has ever seen one like this, let me know.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by Backtothemac
My dad has a 1912 or 13 (something like that) Acoustic Gibson called "The Gibson". The name is written in mother of pearl, and the tuning keys are mother of pearl. It is serial number 16 I think. It is a strange looking guitar, but the sucker still sounds good. Anyway, if anyone has ever seen one like this, let me know.

that's one of the older gibsons since they started at the turn of the century...some put the official date of gibsons beginnings at 1901

there are some martins out there from the 1800s and some of those work, too and if you find one, they are often somewhat affordable under fifteen hundred dollars

but the martins many want are pre-world war II d-28 herringbone models

as for gibsons, the mandolins signed by lloyd loar of gibson in its old days are also worth a mint

i have seen some of those at carmel music company when they were selling a lot of vintage acoustic instruments at their store

i would like to try a stronberg archtop or an old epiphone emperor or d'angelico new yorker or excel

[Taft]

OK. We've covered the cool electrics. Now what about acoustics??

Whatcha got? Whatcha want??

I've got a Taylor dreadnaught and a Collings OM-1A. The Taylor is a good sunding guitar but ain't nothing special. The Collings is an interpretation of a Martin Guitar made in 1928-30. I love that guitar sooooo much. It sounds good. It feels good. Mahogany back and sides, Adirondack spruce top, Ebony fretboard and bridge. The sound is balanced, clear and resonant.

Collings really make some great guitars. Painstaking attention to detail and construction.

Taft

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by Taft
OK. We've covered the cool electrics. Now what about acoustics??

Whatcha got? Whatcha want??

I've got a Taylor dreadnaught and a Collings OM-1A. The Taylor is a good sunding guitar but ain't nothing special. The Collings is an interpretation of a Martin Guitar made in 1928-30. I love that guitar sooooo much. It sounds good. It feels good. Mahogany back and sides, Adirondack spruce top, Ebony fretboard and bridge. The sound is balanced, clear and resonant.

Collings really make some great guitars. Painstaking attention to detail and construction.

Taft

collings and taylor are great...too much money for me

i like the entry level martins that sport only a solid top and the other surfaces are either plastic composite or plywood...to cut down on costs

the entry level martins are mostly under nine hundred and when they are on sale 499 can get you a mid sized 00 cutaway acoustic

if i want to plug in a jam with a drummer, bass, and keyboards, ovation/applause/celebrity is the best way to go to avoid annoying feedback

if i saved up, a d-18 martin would be nice because i prefer mohogany sides and back over the more expensive indian rosewood sides and back...brazilian rosewoood sides and back nowdays with a solid spruce top is a good way to spend three grand...i would go for maxed tibook 667 for that type of money...but the guitar would last longer

another good under 700 or 800 dollar acoustic with solid top is a yamaha or ibanez

deam makes good good five hundred dollar acoustics and is hard to beat for the price

and fender, more well known for electrics, does make some fast playing acoustics in the shape of statocaster and telecasters...for the stage, i have thought about that vs the ovation acoustic electric concept

and for the acoustic sound with no feedback, the parker fly is great...but very, very pricey...david bowie's guitarist uses one of those

sweet:D

[3rdpath]

taylors and collings-those are pretty serious and sweet guitars.

i'm also a fan of the breedlove acoustics. martins are nice too though i find they need too much eq'ing when thrown into a dense mix-they just don't "play well with others..." seems its all about cutting thru these days.

i'm not much of a 6 string player but i do have an old silvertone arch top thats the worst made guitar on the planet but it has this amazing delta-blues sound. the trick is to change the strings only every few years...and tune by ear.

i have a washburn ab-20 acoustic bass guitar that works well in acoustic situations-use a pick and mute with your palm and it sounds like a hofner... except in tune.

if you want to have your mind blown by an acoustic player-check out monty montgomery. his albums don't do him justice-but live OMG. i played a show in nashville where he was on the bill and when he started playing there was a collective gasp form the audience( which was made up of some of the best pickers in town...). and for his full 45 minute set there was a just a string of gasps and heads shaking in disbelief. i haven't gotten goose-bumps like that at a show since the first time i saw eric johnson in a dive in east texas...

:)

[Zenith]

I don't really know much about guitars, but I know we have a K. Yairy acoustic guitar, about 5 years old, and it sounds absolutely amazing! It costs around 3,000 $ now. It's an importware, or what it's called. I haven't seen them in any instrumentstores around the country.

[Taft]

Originally posted by 3rdpath

if you want to have your mind blown by an acoustic player-check out monty montgomery. his albums don't do him justice-but live OMG. i played a show in nashville where he was on the bill and when he started playing there was a collective gasp form the audience( which was made up of some of the best pickers in town...). and for his full 45 minute set there was a just a string of gasps and heads shaking in disbelief. i haven't gotten goose-bumps like that at a show since the first time i saw eric johnson in a dive in east texas...

:)

What kind of stuff does Montgomery play?? You said picking, did you mean fingerpicking or flatpicking or somehting else?

I like breedlove guitars a lot too. Taylors can be gotten pretty cheap for pretty good quality. Not as cheap as the lowend Fenders or Washburn, but not outrageous either.

Another maker that I found I really like is Goodall. Its sound was very bright and twinkly and well balanced. But it didn't growl when you really wanted to push it. I chose my collings over a Goodall. But when my money tree finally starts growing, I'd like a Goodall.

Taft

[3rdpath]

Originally posted by Taft


What kind of stuff does Montgomery play?? You said picking, did you mean fingerpicking or flatpicking or somehting else?

I like breedlove guitars a lot too. Taylors can be gotten pretty cheap for pretty good quality. Not as cheap as the lowend Fenders or Washburn, but not outrageous either.

Another maker that I found I really like is Goodall. Its sound was very bright and twinkly and well balanced. But it didn't growl when you really wanted to push it. I chose my collings over a Goodall. But when my money tree finally starts growing, I'd like a Goodall.

Taft

montgomery is a flatpicker and his band does basically vocal oriented tunes-not pop, not country but somewhere in between. the tunes are just ok, but when he lets loose for a solo-once again, OMG! he's really more of an electric guitar type soloist playing thru a screaming trace elliot acoustic amp. wild but incredibly tasteful. never heard anything like it...

i haven't heard a goodall( i've heard of them...)-just can't keep up with everything these days. at the namm show this year there must've been 200 acoustic guitar makers... some of the cheapies are fun because they have different tone that sits well in a mix. and i'm with ya, when the money tree kicks in--- i plan to add a few choice ones to the arsenal.

[G4scott]

I just got back from Texas State Solo and Ensemble contest... It was fun, since I got to go out of town. I did get a division 2 playing the 3rd movement of Haydn's trumpet concerton in E-flat. (from 1-5, 1 being the best), but I knew I wasn't perfect. Playing a musical instrument is fun, and if any of you are in marching band, it can be really exciting too!

[bonehead]

fOK. We've covered the cool electrics. Now what about acoustics??

Whatcha got? Whatcha want??

I have a Santa Cruz Model F with the cutaway. They make amazing guitars. Check one out if you ever have the chance. According to their website, Doc Watson declared their new dreadnought to be the guitar he's been looking for all his life.

[macfreek57]

Originally posted by sparkleytone
g4scott, you surprise me.

up until now, i didn't know of ONE trumpet player i don't completely ********* hate. arrogant bastards.

at least theres one.

i'm another :D

i play bass in my *friend* band. i have an ibanez gsr-100 and a fender fretless sunburst jazz bass (standard :( ). but i just ordered a danelectro (super plus plus cool!) innuendo. it's low-end, but it's cool because it has built-in effects like dist., echo, trem., and octave - very cool on-a-budget guitar.
check it out: http://danelectro.com/guitars.htm (http://)
and yes i got the blue/silver basically because it sucked the least. of all the danelectro guitars, the innuendo has the worst color options.

i'm not much into acoustics but i did learn guitar on my dad's old yamaha.
i wouldn't mind a 12-string acoustic

ooooh!
i'd love a red double-neck gibson 12/6 string just like jimmy page had *droooling;;;;;

[Taft]

Originally posted by macfreek57

i'm not much into acoustics but i did learn guitar on my dad's old yamaha.
i wouldn't mind a 12-string acoustic

ooooh!
i'd love a red double-neck gibson 12/6 string just like jimmy page had *droooling;;;;;

If you are ever in the market for a 12 string acoustic, check out Taylor. They make the only 12 strings that I've found palletable to my ear. All the others sound muddy and unbalanced to me. Low end starting for under 700, too.

Have any of you played one of those 12/6 string dual guitars?? Do they actually sound OK? I just can't imagine how they'd sound...

Taft

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by bonehead


I have a Santa Cruz Model F with the cutaway. They make amazing guitars. Check one out if you ever have the chance. According to their website, Doc Watson declared their new dreadnought to be the guitar he's been looking for all his life.

santa cruz guitars is a local favorite here of the northern califonia players but it is not an inexpensive guitar with many being three grand

the same dealers who carry the high end santa cruz guitars also carry the expensive taylors, martins, and lowden guitars

i like some of the koa guitars by santa cruz and while koa looks nice, i still prefer a regular spruce top for sound...the mahogany back and sides makes for a mellow sounding guitar with the sound near the player while the harder rosewood back and sides makes for the sweet spot sound well into the audience

i never get that intimate feel with a rosewood back and sides acoustic but i know for performances, few things can beat an old D-28 with rosewood back and sides

also some of the old pre-war gibsons are amazing sounding instruments and all these guitars sound better with age

i am just curious to see how the new santa cruz quitars will sound like in 50-70 years...i bet they will become more sought after than they already are

i have also thought about a guild or ovation with the heavier bracing/thicker top since i live in a damp area and thin braced delicate top guitars like the martins and the santa cruz guitars would warp on me...but still nothing beats the thin scalloped bracing of an old martins when it comes to sound quality

...not to get off topic, but my old volvo sw is like an ovation/guild and built like a tank...but the quality of a jaguar v.12, even though the classic ones are delicate, remind me of a finely tuned vintage D-28 with scalloped bracing...high maintenance but when the thing works optimally...watch out!

being a techie, i love the idea of tinkering with something that always needs to be working at its best to work at all...it must be the challege and everything that i like...he he

[Macmaniac]

Originally posted by jefhatfield


korg workstations or yamaha workstations did it for me and others in the old days...but not sure what is hip today with midi keyboards

My uncle uses a Korg for his composition. He used to be the tympanist for the Hong Kong Phillormonic.

[Zenith]

Isn't it philharmonic? We have a couple of Korg workstations too - a Triton and a Trinity. With some expansion cards and SCSI. They're both great synthesizers/workstations.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by Taft


If you are ever in the market for a 12 string acoustic, check out Taylor. They make the only 12 strings that I've found palletable to my ear. All the others sound muddy and unbalanced to me. Low end starting for under 700, too.

Have any of you played one of those 12/6 string dual guitars?? Do they actually sound OK? I just can't imagine how they'd sound...

Taft

the 6/12 combo or six/bass combo guitars i have tried out are nice sounding but too heavy and bulky for my taste

the guitarist of alabama is the only other player i know who has a double besides jimmy page of zepplin

[teabgs]

Originally posted by macfreek57


i'm another :D

i play bass in my *friend* band. i have an ibanez gsr-100 and a fender fretless sunburst jazz bass (standard :( ). but i just ordered a danelectro (super plus plus cool!) innuendo. it's low-end, but it's cool because it has built-in effects like dist., echo, trem., and octave - very cool on-a-budget guitar.
check it out: http://danelectro.com/guitars.htm (http://)
and yes i got the blue/silver basically because it sucked the least. of all the danelectro guitars, the innuendo has the worst color options.

i'm not much into acoustics but i did learn guitar on my dad's old yamaha.
i wouldn't mind a 12-string acoustic

ooooh!
i'd love a red double-neck gibson 12/6 string just like jimmy page had *droooling;;;;;

dude, bass is killer on your wrists.I havent been able to play (bass) with my band in 2 moths cause of tendonitis. I'll be able to play again soon, according to my therapist. However, if you play slap, like I do....well, did...I dont think I'll be slapping for another month or two;.

Stretch your wrists every half hour and keep them in good shape...dont let the bass abuse you..

[3rdpath]

Originally posted by teabgs


dude, bass is killer on your wrists.I havent been able to play (bass) with my band in 2 moths cause of tendonitis. I'll be able to play again soon, according to my therapist. However, if you play slap, like I do....well, did...I dont think I'll be slapping for another month or two;.

Stretch your wrists every half hour and keep them in good shape...dont let the bass abuse you..

i had severe hand and wrist pain from playing bass. started doing a lot of stretches which helped...also cut back on my caffeine intake because my dr. told me it might help. after about three weeks the problems went away. i kept playing bass thru those weeks since i was on tour but i didn't play a note except at the shows.

man i hope your wrists get better-what a drag.

[teabgs]

Originally posted by 3rdpath


i had severe hand and wrist pain from playing bass. started doing a lot of stretches which helped...also cut back on my caffeine intake because my dr. told me it might help. after about three weeks the problems went away. i kept playing bass thru those weeks since i was on tour but i didn't play a note except at the shows.

man i hope your wrists get better-what a drag.


hmmm...caffeine intake is related....now thats a drag:mad: maybe I should do that as well....

I shook it off as nothing for half a year which is what lead to my problem being so severe. Being on the computer so much doesnt help either. :rolleyes:

My therapist said I should be ready to be discharged by the end of june :D Goin tommorrow too.....

[3rdpath]

Originally posted by teabgs
hmmm...caffeine intake is related....now thats a drag:mad: maybe I should do that as well....


i didn't quit completely but i had a LOT of room to decrease the intake...it was my neck or fretting hand that was the most severe. i don't play slap( though i do have my "mark king" moments:D ) so i'm sure i'm not as hard on the wrists as you.

what type of bass(es) do you play and who are you fav players?

[teabgs]

Originally posted by 3rdpath


i didn't quit completely but i had a LOT of room to decrease the intake...it was my neck or fretting hand that was the most severe. i don't play slap( though i do have my "mark king" moments:D ) so i'm sure i'm not as hard on the wrists as you.

what type of bass(es) do you play and who are you fav players?

Yup....my fretting hand is almost twice as bad as the other....

I have only one bass, it's a Dean edge 1, a few years old with a black/purple finish (depending on light and angle it looks different).

My two favorite bassists and the inspiration for my learning to play are Flea (RHCP) and Les Claypool (Primus). I like Victor Wooten a lot too, he's the man.

[DavidOS]

I am kind of late on this one - but to respond to the oriinal question - I play the violin. Classical violin. I have played ever since I was five. I love it - I love all classical music.

[Dignan]

My dad and I kinda collect them...here is what I can remember

1964 strat he has had since he was 12. It's the holy grail of any music guy in town.

70s martin accoustic

Custom shop 1950's reissue telecaster, copper color, maple neck/fretboard (with carmal like finish to the maple)

1950s reissue tele in pale 50's pink, maple neck, nicknamed "Pank"

1950's reissue of stratocaster, baby blue, maple neck

1960's reissue stratocaster, a kinda purplish color, some kinda berry mist metallic, rosewood fretboard

A purpleish colored parker guitar. Super fly, somethin like that.

newer purple telecaster

Two newer martins, a DR, and a Jumbo of some sort.

Ibanez signature model of some guy ive never heard of. But great piccasso like finish on the guitar. (Faces, shapes)

A yamaha electric. (Pacifica i think) My first electric guitar.

A 1970s accoustic electric jazz style ibanez thats beautiful. Had it restored a while back.

I think thats it...or at least all I can remember....

[3rdpath]

Originally posted by teabgs


Yup....my fretting hand is almost twice as bad as the other....

I have only one bass, it's a Dean edge 1, a few years old with a black/purple finish (depending on light and angle it looks different).

My two favorite bassists and the inspiration for my learning to play are Flea (RHCP) and Les Claypool (Primus). I like Victor Wooten a lot too, he's the man.

i dig flea and les though i'm not huge fans of their bands. i especially enjoy les' approach to bass-cool sounds and technique. flea really has a much broader scope of playing than he shows with the peppers..i enjoy his appearances on other peple's work.

victor wooten is a monster( and a heck of a nice guy). since we were both endorsed by the same company, we did maybe 6 or 7 shows on the same bill.
they always brought out guests like micheal anthony( much better than anyone knows...) and bill wiggins( the most astounding player i've ever seen...victor actually got down on his knees and bowed to bill at a show). and it was always cool if futureman showed up..trippy.

my favs are james jamerson and paul mccartney( so melodic), mark king( a great slapper) and two people you've probably never heard of...guy pratt( toy matinee, madonna, pink floyd) and alfie aguis( the fixx). i get to work with alfie on occassion and i'm always astounded by his "gift of groove". some people just have this gift that puts them in the pocket so tightly that they can push or pull the music as they wish. he's got that in spades...( i don't sound too jealous do i?:) )

i have a pair of custom-made( not for me) music man basses(fretted and fretless) that sound amazing, a washburn ab-20 hollowbody bass that sits well in acoustic music( and you can hear it without an amp...) and an older fender jazz special that i've "retired"..too many shows and too much abuse. now my 19 month old daughter gets to bang on it...

the guitarist and singer get the glory but its the bassist and drummer that MAKE the band.:D

[Hemingray]

I played piano/VK-7 organ in a band from about '96-99. My biggest influence is Creedence/John Fogerty, hands down. I always liked the pedal steel guitar too, so I'm learning how to play that this summer. Music doesn't take the front seat anymore (unfortunately, due to the freakin' small space of my room!) but someday I'd like to get into it more again. I don't know if I'm the band type though! I'm not exactly the most extroverted guy around. :)

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by Dignan
My dad and I kinda collect them...here is what I can remember

1964 strat he has had since he was 12. It's the holy grail of any music guy in town.

70s martin accoustic

Custom shop 1950's reissue telecaster, copper color, maple neck/fretboard (with carmal like finish to the maple)

1950s reissue tele in pale 50's pink, maple neck, nicknamed "Pank"

1950's reissue of stratocaster, baby blue, maple neck

1960's reissue stratocaster, a kinda purplish color, some kinda berry mist metallic, rosewood fretboard

A purpleish colored parker guitar. Super fly, somethin like that.

newer purple telecaster

Two newer martins, a DR, and a Jumbo of some sort.

Ibanez signature model of some guy ive never heard of. But great piccasso like finish on the guitar. (Faces, shapes)

A yamaha electric. (Pacifica i think) My first electric guitar.

A 1970s accoustic electric jazz style ibanez thats beautiful. Had it restored a while back.

I think thats it...or at least all I can remember....

i have had a lot of guitars, too and two that you have really catch my fancy

the ibanez picasso guitars are a special edition, one year only, of the joe satriani signature model...right now, ibanez puts out the fairly good js-100 model for under a grand and the super fine js-1000 model for "too much money"...i think something like $1999 usd

the fender custon shop guitar is the 1952 reissue (a near perfect replica of an old telecaster) but you have the custom shop model...the regular model is in butterscotch blonde and goes for about a grand in catalogs but the metallic copper, a color used by fender only this year in the custom shop, is probably a lot more expensive from what custom shop instruments bring in these days

some fender custom shop insturments are premade and thus not too high in price, but if you have them draw up plans for something you create from scratch, then be prepared to part with three grand...yikes

i wanted ESP to make a viper like my ESP/LTD mass produced Viper 301 and their quote was $2800, and that was before tax...i wanted it to be exactly like fallon's esp viper from the canadian hard rock band "kitty"...so much for having esp custom shop built me an instrument

at least apple can kind of customize a computer and give you a lot more than a guitar for less...at least in my opinion

i see no need to spend more than 1600 for an electic guitar and that's what a gibson les paul standard costs in a catalog or a fender stratocaster with a good marshall 50 watt combo:D

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by 3rdpath


i had severe hand and wrist pain from playing bass. started doing a lot of stretches which helped...also cut back on my caffeine intake because my dr. told me it might help.

i had carpal tunnel from guitar but on picking hand...i once did a google search on caffeine and found a lot of interesting information!

caffeine is nasty stuff indeed

but maybe carpal tunnel came from net surfing:p

[teabgs]

Originally posted by 3rdpath




victor wooten is a monster( and a heck of a nice guy). since we were both endorsed by the same company, we did maybe 6 or 7 shows on the same bill.
they always brought out guests like micheal anthony( much better than anyone knows...) and bill wiggins( the most astounding player i've ever seen...victor actually got down on his knees and bowed to bill at a show). and it was always cool if futureman showed up..trippy.

my favs are james jamerson and paul mccartney( so melodic), mark king( a great slapper) and two people you've probably never heard of...guy pratt( toy matinee, madonna, pink floyd) and alfie aguis( the fixx). i get to work with alfie on occassion and i'm always astounded by his "gift of groove". some people just have this gift that puts them in the pocket so tightly that they can push or pull the music as they wish. he's got that in spades...( i don't sound too jealous do i?:) )

i have a pair of custom-made( not for me) music man basses(fretted and fretless) that sound amazing, a washburn ab-20 hollowbody bass that sits well in acoustic music( and you can hear it without an amp...) and an older fender jazz special that i've "retired"..too many shows and too much abuse. now my 19 month old daughter gets to bang on it...

the guitarist and singer get the glory but its the bassist and drummer that MAKE the band.:D

You know victor wooten?!?!?! WOW! thats awesome.
He's so good....

You're soooo right about the bass and drums...thats why everyone always wants a good sub in their cars and entertainment system....they just dont realize it

[macfreek57]

[macfreek57]

Originally posted by Taft
Have any of you played one of those 12/6 string dual guitars?? Do they actually sound OK?
no i haven't but I'D imagine they sound awesome:D

flea kicks
and
bass and drums DO make the band

[iGav]

Well early in this thread, I said I'd really love to play a 12 string Rickenbacker, well yesterday I got the chance......... I was in my local guitar shop, and they had.... if memory serves me right a 360 12 String, in Jetglo.......

Well..... far from sounding like Roger McGuinn... I don't think I've ever played so many duff notes in my life...... jesus was it difficult.......... and my fingers hurt......

Anyone with 12 string experience......... do they get easier to play with lot's of practice.......???

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by iGAV
Well early in this thread, I said I'd really love to play a 12 string Rickenbacker, well yesterday I got the chance......... I was in my local guitar shop, and they had.... if memory serves me right a 360 12 String, in Jetglo.......

Well..... far from sounding like Roger McGuinn... I don't think I've ever played so many duff notes in my life...... jesus was it difficult.......... and my fingers hurt......

Anyone with 12 string experience......... do they get easier to play with lot's of practice.......???

and you thought electric 12 string was hard?...wait until you try and acoustic 12 string

and with acoustics, the tone improves greatly when you raise the action to minimize buzz and increase sustain to bring out the sound of the spruce top to its poetential

since i am mostly an electric player, i stick to electrics and low action when i use acoustics...12 string does get easier with time as does anything...the 12 string electric is the friendliest of all 12 strings and with any electric, if you don't have the best tone, you can always mess with your amp...even a low action, buzzy electric sounds good when plugged in and put on the right settings on your amplifier

also in the age of digital signal processors, a six string could be made to sound close enough to a 12 string...some emulators out there are nearly flawless..the expensive rackmount variety

[3rdpath]

Originally posted by jefhatfield


and you thought electric 12 string was hard?...wait until you try and acoustic 12 string
also in the age of digital signal processors, a six string could be made to sound close enough to a 12 string...some emulators out there are nearly flawless..the expensive rackmount variety

yea, playing acoustic 12 string guitar is really a lot like wrestling as to playing electric 12 string which is more like dancing....

and signal processors are close but they just don't sound "bad" enough for my ears. the problem is the octave string( which is an effect) is too in tune over the neck of the guitar. the pulsing of the waves because of the randomness of articulation and tuning is what gives the 12 string its beauty. also, you can't do an upward strum that hits the upper octave strings first..you hear the high e string then its upper octave and so on. it is a cool effect but not realistic. having said that, if you don't have a 12 string it is an alternative. and i do like the effect on single-note phrases.

btw, the cheapie danelectro 12 strings actually sound great. just spend a little dough to have them set up well. and presto, you're "tambourine man".:D

[Taft]

Originally posted by 3rdpath


yea, playing acoustic 12 string guitar is really a lot like wrestling as to playing electric 12 string which is more like dancing....

and signal processors are close but they just don't sound "bad" enough for my ears. the problem is the octave string( which is an effect) is too in tune over the neck of the guitar. the pulsing of the waves because of the randomness of articulation and tuning is what gives the 12 string its beauty. also, you can't do an upward strum that hits the upper octave strings first..you hear the high e string then its upper octave and so on. it is a cool effect but not realistic. having said that, if you don't have a 12 string it is an alternative. and i do like the effect on single-note phrases.

btw, the cheapie danelectro 12 strings actually sound great. just spend a little dough to have them set up well. and presto, you're "tambourine man".:D

Yeah, processors generally don't sound even close to the real 12 string sound. Especially if you are doing more than just strumming. When you're fingerpicking, it doesn't even sound close.

I haven't heard many twelve string acoustics that I actually like. Most sound way too full. Too muddy and not enough clarity and seperation of the notes. If I ever bought one, I'd go for a Taylor. They are the only ones that I've found that suit my ear.

Then again, I may have weird tastes...

Taft

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by Taft


Yeah, processors generally don't sound even close to the real 12 string sound. Especially if you are doing more than just strumming. When you're fingerpicking, it doesn't even sound close.

I haven't heard many twelve string acoustics that I actually like. Most sound way too full. Too muddy and not enough clarity and seperation of the notes. If I ever bought one, I'd go for a Taylor. They are the only ones that I've found that suit my ear.

Then again, I may have weird tastes...

Taft

footpedal processors under $200 dollars do sound a little stiff, but the $1500 rackmount virtual guitar units are pretty good

but that is a good point, 3rd path, about "up strumming"...the virtual guitar emulator sounds all strings as intonated as a down strum...also thre real thing, a 12 string guitar, is not intonated too well but the out of tune quality lends to a really rich and lush sound

that is why an orchestra sounds so full...everybody is slightly out of tune with each other...if the orchestra was perfectly in tune and perfectly intonated on each note with each other (which is a physical impossibility due to the design of the instruments), then the orchestra would sound less full

interestingly enough, there are guitars with staggered and curved frets on certain notes to make a guitar more true up and down the neck for intonation...a real plus for playing, but a real bear to refret

[3rdpath]

yea, i've never recorded an acoustic guitar( 6 or 12) that didn't need at least some scooping out of the mid-freq's...and often quite a bit more than that depending on the other instruments involved.

another way to achieve the shimmer of a 12 string is to overdub a " nashville high string" guitar. nice twinkles without the mud.

and regarding the beauty of being slightly detuned...i used to play in a folk-rock band that had 6 and 12 string acoustics, mandolin and violin and my bass( and 3 part vocal harmonies)...when it was all "on" it was great but when it wasn't we had the running joke that " A440 has left the building..."

and we offered to chip in to buy the violinist some frets...:D

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by 3rdpath
yea, i've never recorded an acoustic guitar( 6 or 12) that didn't need at least some scooping out of the mid-freq's...and often quite a bit more than that depending on the other instruments involved.

another way to achieve the shimmer of a 12 string is to overdub a " nashville high string" guitar. nice twinkles without the mud.

and regarding the beauty of being slightly detuned...i used to play in a folk-rock band that had 6 and 12 string acoustics, mandolin and violin and my bass( and 3 part vocal harmonies)...when it was all "on" it was great but when it wasn't we had the running joke that " A440 has left the building..."

and we offered to chip in to buy the violinist some frets...:D

i definitely think the hardest part live is to keep the vocals in harmony...high harmony is easy, but throw in three part and the low harmony and then it becomes a challege...the eagles were very good at doing that live...seven bridges road is a shining example...crosby, stills, nash, and young are way off, and maybe because they have hard parts, but when they record, they somehow pull it all together

i like to record dry and add in the effects later so the final product stays in tune...but it is hard to hear oneself doing vocals dry in the recording process

by the editing process and throwing in effects, it becomes too easy to sluff that part off becuase it's hard to still like the song by then...i guess this is why professional recording people don't feel threatened by musician's doing there own recording

it is so uncreative and tedious to do the editing part and mixdown that without the discipline, it is nearly impossible to get a great sounding cd out

i was on this one cd that took 18 months to make and because we were so close to the product, it became hard to choose the best sounding version of a song we made...in the end, we had a very inconsistent sounding product because our band went thru several evolutionary changes during that year and a half

we had no on watching over the big picture since we paid all our attention to the minutae...as the lead guitarist, i focused on just the solos and fills with a sigma/martin, 60s tele, les paul jr, and old melody maker and i was always experimenting with difeerent picks and strings...mostly i recorded thru a small tube amp or transister amp depending on the sound i was looking for...a couple of times, i went straight into the board and while it worked for the bass and acoustic, it sounded horrendous with the electric guitar

of course, this was in the early 90s so we didn't have high end digital signal processing, but we did have a one track DAT amchine for mixdown, so we kept the hiss down a a low roar

unfortunately, there was no mac powerful enough in 1990 to get a great result...or at least not on our budget then

we had a soundproofed used music store that the other guitarist owned so we had no lack of basic gear and there was always a new guitar or bass each week for us to try out and add to the mix

i would like to record again someday, but it took about ten years to get the interest back...making a cd is like giving birth and it's not something one wants to do all the time

[Taft]

Originally posted by jefhatfield


footpedal processors under $200 dollars do sound a little stiff, but the $1500 rackmount virtual guitar units are pretty good

but that is a good point, 3rd path, about "up strumming"...the virtual guitar emulator sounds all strings as intonated as a down strum...also thre real thing, a 12 string guitar, is not intonated too well but the out of tune quality lends to a really rich and lush sound

This is why processors of any kind sound so lousy for fingerstyle 12-string playing. When you pick your fingernail and finger have a particular way of hitting the string. And your thumb differs from your fingers in how it hits the strings.

Processors of any kind just can't emulate that. I've tried them in music stores (expensive and cheap) and didn't find anything that sounded reaonable for my style of playing.

3rdpath--
Thats a good point about cutting the mids out of miked 12-strings. The problem I always have with them is that I generally don't play with amplification, so I'm forced to rely on the natural sound of the guitar. Thats why I find most 12-strings so "offensive" to my ear and style of playing.

Taft

[Taft]

I'm planning on trying to record again in the near future.

I'm very inexperienced and am doing it by trial and error. It sounds like you guys--*ahem* 3rdpath--are pretty experienced with this kind of stuff.

Would you guys be willing to dispense a little advice to a recording newby when the time comes??

Taft

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by Taft


This is why processors of any kind sound so lousy for fingerstyle 12-string playing. When you pick your fingernail and finger have a particular way of hitting the string. And your thumb differs from your fingers in how it hits the strings.

Processors of any kind just can't emulate that. I've tried them in music stores (expensive and cheap) and didn't find anything that sounded reaonable for my style of playing.

3rdpath--
Thats a good point about cutting the mids out of miked 12-strings. The problem I always have with them is that I generally don't play with amplification, so I'm forced to rely on the natural sound of the guitar. Thats why I find most 12-strings so "offensive" to my ear and style of playing.

Taft

good point, taft

when the first emulators/dsp's came out, they just took the original signal and played a note back at the same volume whether you hit the string soft or hard

now, most dsp units have some degree of touch sesitivity which helps...if you are playing in a gig and let's say, for instance, you want to play hotel california by the eagles and you only have two guitars, rhythm and lead...an emulator is good for the dual acoustic intro and when the song goes to an electric reggae style rhythm and a standard electric fill pattern while the vocals are going, then one can just hit a switch/pedal and you are there

for recording, of course, use real acoustics and then overdub with electrics later...but live, the emulators are good for a quick and mediocre solution

the dsp's would be things i would only use for electrics when i recorded to slightly shape an elctric guitar sound, but would never try to make an acoustic sound with it in a mix...unless one was going for an effect

a miked acoustic has a quality altogether different than a piezo bridge pickup or soundhole pickup and i found the best thing for live performances is definitely the piezo bridge unit

for recording an acoustic, an sm-57, or thin directed non-vocal mike is best...for vocals, an omnidirectional sm-58 is a good choice or a similar unit

if you have the money, don't go the shure route, but use higher end neumann mikes or high end active akg's...big bucks but cleaner signal

or course, i have not recorded in more than ten years so there could definitely be much better technologies out there for recording acoustics and vocals

when i was miking the tube amp witha vintage fender telecaster, we wanted a retro sound for that track so we used a bass drum mike for that take and the guitar came out "way in the background" which was very subtle and kind of cool

but if we recorded all the guitar tracks with that bass drum mike miking an amplifier, then the whole album would sound washed out

i have seen some people use instrument mikes like the sm-57 for vocals...the 57 is almost identical to the 58 except one has to sing directly into the 57 and pronounce all syllables very softly...which does work for some types of singing

in a pinch, the vocal sm-58 will work as an instrument mike...just set your levels very carefully and make sure there is enough treble to "cut" thru

i hope this helps, but my info is old school so it may not even apply for today's home recording

it kind of makes me excitied to see how i can do it nowadays...there have been some pretty good results with home recording and imacs

[Taft]

Originally posted by jefhatfield

for recording an acoustic, an sm-57, or thin directed non-vocal mike is best...for vocals, an omnidirectional sm-58 is a good choice or a similar unit

if you have the money, don't go the shure route, but use higher end neumann mikes or high end active akg's...big bucks but cleaner signal

or course, i have not recorded in more than ten years so there could definitely be much better technologies out there for recording acoustics and vocals

when i was miking the tube amp witha vintage fender telecaster, we wanted a retro sound for that track so we used a bass drum mike for that take and the guitar came out "way in the background" which was very subtle and kind of cool

but if we recorded all the guitar tracks with that bass drum mike miking an amplifier, then the whole album would sound washed out

i have seen some people use instrument mikes like the sm-57 for vocals...the 57 is almost identical to the 58 except one has to sing directly into the 57 and pronounce all syllables very softly...which does work for some types of singing

in a pinch, the vocal sm-58 will work as an instrument mike...just set your levels very carefully and make sure there is enough treble to "cut" thru

Thanks for the tips. I think it would probably help to give more information about my equipment at this point.

My goal is to succesfully mic my two acoustic with my current microphone (an Octava MK012-http://www.oktava.net/- its got omnidirectional, cardioid, and hypercardioid heads). My guitars are a typical sounding dreadnaught (bright and bassy) and a more balanced, almost classical sounding orchestra model.

I plan to use the dreadnaught as the "backup" guitar for strumming and fingerpicking patterns underneath the main picking and lines. The OM I'll use for the main picking and melody lines.

My real quiestion is: How do I mic these suckers and make them sound good?? I've done a lot of experimenting and haven't found anything I like. I've also experimented with the pickup I have installed in each guitar to some success.

Any tips on mic positioning, level settings, or general tips are appreciated. Thanks again for the response, jef.

Taft

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by Taft


Thanks for the tips. I think it would probably help to give more information about my equipment at this point.

My goal is to succesfully mic my two acoustic with my current microphone (an Octava MK012-http://www.oktava.net/- its got omnidirectional, cardioid, and hypercardioid heads). My guitars are a typical sounding dreadnaught (bright and bassy) and a more balanced, almost classical sounding orchestra model.

I plan to use the dreadnaught as the "backup" guitar for strumming and fingerpicking patterns underneath the main picking and lines. The OM I'll use for the main picking and melody lines.

My real quiestion is: How do I mic these suckers and make them sound good?? I've done a lot of experimenting and haven't found anything I like. I've also experimented with the pickup I have installed in each guitar to some success.

Any tips on mic positioning, level settings, or general tips are appreciated. Thanks again for the response, jef.

Taft

sounds like a great mike

acoustic guitar magazine has some great tips on miking acoustics

good choice for having the dreadnaught be the backup to to OM model...OM's are not always great live or for strumming, but the smaller lower bout and slightly thinner body makes for a cutting lead sound in the mix ( i am assuming you have a OOO - triple ot (aught) style which is only an inch smaller than the dreadnaught

i had a 1947 Martin OO-17 (double ot) which was very small but great for leads...but for strumming, it had no guts at all

the standard martin d-18 or d-28 dreadnaught style is great for a foundation rhythm guitar/sturmmer and what makes the dreadnaught so great, and popular, is that it is also decent for lead playing, too

the OM, or orchestra model, was considered huge for its time, since it was larger than the OO or single ot (aught) guitars of the time

the dreadnuaght, named after the huge battleships of the time, were so big that the name was appropriate

now we have jumbo to distinguish something even bigger than a dreadnaught and those guitars (gibson j-100 and j-200 are real monster instruments)

i like the jumbos but i would say nine out of ten players would opt for a dreadnaught if asked to have one guitar on a desert island

most cheap acoustics copy the dreadnaught design instead of the jumbo or OM styles...for a good first guitar, nothing beats a dreadnaught for all around acoustic playing

as for cutaways, i prefer the regular shape due to the bigger sound and for high leads, i carefully plan those solos and i kind of like the challenge of playing beyond the 14th fret

if i want to wail at the 19th fret, i pick up my 24 fret electric ;)

[Taft]

Do you know if Acoustic Guitar Magazine has anything online?? I'm looking around and can't find anything.

My OM body is a OOO and has 14 frets. Its great for my solo fingerstyle stuff and also has a sweet sound for flatpicking or lead. I actually think that this is the guitar I'd bring to a desert island. I love playing solo fingerstyle guitar and I haven't heard a guitar sound for my style of playing.

BUUUUTTT...even though it doesn't blow away my mic (like the bassy dreadnaught does) I still don't like the sound I get from a recording. I'm thinking it might be the room I'm recording in. Maybe I should put some blankets on the walls....

Taft

[3rdpath]

Originally posted by Taft
I'm planning on trying to record again in the near future.

I'm very inexperienced and am doing it by trial and error. It sounds like you guys--*ahem* 3rdpath--are pretty experienced with this kind of stuff.

Would you guys be willing to dispense a little advice to a recording newby when the time comes??

Taft

sure, let me know when you get to it and i'll help you anyway i can.

i guess the biggest issue is the overall instrumentation, your instrument and the recording medium(dig or analog)-thats how i choose a mic. the octava is very nice( haven't used them myself but i've read the reviews...) but also keep in mind that there are numerous wonderful mics that are easily rentable for cheap--neumanns, akgs, audio technicas, rodes etc. i try to vary the mics so i don't have a build-up of certain frequencies. this makes life much easier when it comes to the final mix...and everything sounds reasonably the same as when you tracked it.

feel free to pm me with specifics and any recordings that you especially like as a reference( including yours).

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by Taft
Do you know if Acoustic Guitar Magazine has anything online?? I'm looking around and can't find anything.

My OM body is a OOO and has 14 frets. Its great for my solo fingerstyle stuff and also has a sweet sound for flatpicking or lead. I actually think that this is the guitar I'd bring to a desert island. I love playing solo fingerstyle guitar and I haven't heard a guitar sound for my style of playing.

BUUUUTTT...even though it doesn't blow away my mic (like the bassy dreadnaught does) I still don't like the sound I get from a recording. I'm thinking it might be the room I'm recording in. Maybe I should put some blankets on the walls....

Taft

acoustic guitar or acoustic does have a magazine, but as for online, i don't know

so you have a triple OOO...that is cool and really a great fingerstyle guitar

i used to do mostly fingerstyle on acoustic and only used the pick for strumming...i like the fingers better than wearable fingerpicks though but i always experiment and try to keep very open minded

[bonehead]

A bit of a late reply but:

Anyone with 12 string experience......... do they get easier to play with lot's of practice.......???

I've had a Rick 12-string for 14 years and it got easier to play after practicing for a while. You certainly have to be more careful when fretting or you get a lot of unwanted muting or buzzing. You benefit from this when you switch over to 6-string and your fretting hand technique has improved. I haven't played mine much in the last couple of years but this thread has made want to break it out again.

[bonehead]

A bit of a late reply but:

Anyone with 12 string experience......... do they get easier to play with lot's of practice.......???

I've had a Rick 12-string for 14 years and it got easier to play after practicing for a while. You certainly have to be more careful when fretting or you get a lot of unwanted muting or buzzing. You benefit from this when you switch over to 6-string and your fretting hand technique has improved. I haven't played mine much in the last couple of years but this thread has made want to break it out again.