Putin says the US was behind the Georgian conflict

[JG271]

Putin says the US was behind the Georgian conflict (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7586605.stm)

That is quite a substantial claim to make.

Mr Putin told CNN US citizens were "in the area" during the conflict over South Ossetia and were "taking direct orders from their leaders".
He said his defence officials had told him this was to benefit one of the US presidential candidates.

What do you think?

[Pittsax]

Cue up the RNC Smear Machine:

"Clearly, this shows that the Russians want Obama to be president. Can we afford to elect a person who is supported by someone chose to invade a sovereign democratic nation?"

Personally, I think this is just Putin trying to stir up the pot, but I wouldn't put it past certain people in the administration to pull something like this either.

[mkrishnan]

What do you think?

I think we're talking about Russia. Don't forget that the whole "In Soviet Russia..." gag started with the way Russian politicians actually act. The difference between Russian posturing and American posturing is that in American posturing, we don't believe the crap we shovel, but we expect everyone else to believe it. In Russian posturing, they neither believe their own claims nor really expect anyone else to believe them. They don't even really rely on anyone believing their claims for their method of posturing to work. That's just how things are done.

[iShater]

If anybody thinks that that US didn't give the green light to Georgia ... well .. they would be pretty naive. :rolleyes:

[ucfgrad93]

Cue up the RNC Smear Machine:

"Clearly, this shows that the Russians want Obama to be president. Can we afford to elect a person who is supported by someone chose to invade a sovereign democratic nation?"

Personally, I think this is just Putin trying to stir up the pot, but I wouldn't put it past certain people in the administration to pull something like this either.

Cue up the DNC Smear Machine:

"This is all Bush's fault. If he hadn't invaded Iraq, the Russians wouldn't have invaded Georgia. And McCain is just Bush's 3rd term.":p

I agree, that this is Putin just stirring the pot, and making a power play.

[JG271]

If anybody thinks that that US didn't give the green light to Georgia ... well .. they would be pretty naive. :rolleyes:

Indeed, it would seem to me that he thinks the US actually created the conflict, although his statements are intentionally vague.

[mactastic]

I wonder if Pooty-poot is just peeved about the rather derogatory nickname given to him by Bush...

At least he escaped the 'Turdblossom' moniker...

[skunk]

Isn't he talking about McCain's campaign advisor who was also a paid PR man for Georgia? Can't find the link at the moment.

[pseudobrit]

Isn't he talking about McCain's campaign advisor who was also a paid PR man for Georgia? Can't find the link at the moment.

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB121842762192729075.html?mod=special_page_campaign2008_topbox

[Ntombi]

Isn't he talking about McCain's campaign advisor who was also a paid PR man for Georgia? Can't find the link at the moment.

There are a multitude of links to be found, but I'm on this amazing smartphone without copy/paste, so I'll leave it to someone else. :p


This is what happens when our foreign policy is dictated by someone who bases his decisions on a soul-gaze instead of history, common sense, and standing by your word.

[skunk]

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB121842762192729075.html?mod=special_page_campaign2008_topboxThat's the one. :)

[Dont Hurt Me]

I would like to see something,evidence or anything Putin has on this because to be honest I dont trust Bush/Cheney at all. We know who started this and it wasnt the russians. Plus this has played right into the GOP's hand.

[Peterkro]

The very odd thing about this is that Washington was signaling fairly clearly that it would be powerless to stop Russia if Saak'ashvili provoked them. I can only believe he thought it worth the risk in terms of forcing the Nato membership issue and diverting attention away from his very real problems in Georgia itself. Personally I think there are those in Nato who are scared ******** of the consequences of having Georgia as a member. His links with McCain the hiring of PR companies and the arms flowing from the US Israel and Turkey lead me to think the Chicago economists have hooked another idiot into their half witted plan to turn the world clock back 150 years. He reminds me of the second hand car salesman image perfected by Tricky Dicky.

P.S. What I'm saying doesn't preclude the CIA or private adventurists operating inside Georgia nor that some members of the US administration were egging Saak'ashvili on.

[Desertrat]

Looking at a map and doing some reading about the ethnic sub-groups in the area is helpful.

The west has been working at NATOizing Georgia and the Ukraine. That's a bummer for Russia; it's worse than the Cold War encirclement of the USSR. The US has been politicking in the Ukraine, and has been setting up military bases in Georgia. Granted that our main focus there has been southward, but it's still right next door to Russia.

So, you have the Ossetia conflict with Georgia, which is a can of worms in which the Russians saw an opportunity. For whatever reason, the Georgians thought they could go in without the Russians getting involved. Big mistake. Big failure in intelligence on somebody's part, for sure. How could we not know the Russians were ready and waiting? And, knowing that, why would we not advise the Georgians to keep their military back? This deal has wiped out all our efforts in Georgia.

"Leadership" all over the place is spouting a bunch of face-saving spin, but the bottom line is that Russia won and the West lost. Russia gained a bunch more control over the routes for Europe's oil/gas supplies and eliminated a possible military threat from the south. From the Russian standpoint, Putin was just doing what he's supposed to.

'Rat

[Lord Blackadder]

I feel like things are beginning to spiral out of control on both sides - both Russia and NATO are showing little interest in real compromise.

[Desertrat]

Why should Russia feel any need for compromise? Neither the US nor NATO can really do anything besides posture and go, "Harumph! Tut! And double-tut!"

Russia's sitting on oil, gas, gold and tons of cash--and she has short supply lines for the troops on the ground.

[Lord Blackadder]

True - I think we are the ones who should be less hard nosed in this case.

...but both sides really do seem to relish the thought of a new cold war.

[Desertrat]

Umm. I don't see the Russians as "relishing". I'll stay with the view that they feared encirclement, and are doing a relative minimum to stave it off. So far, they've sent a pretty good "Back off!" message.

Odds are that if we spout enough goo to make it look like we've saved face, we'll back off. Dunno. We surely can't afford to expand any military posture; we not only don't have the money, there's no support to print more for that purpose.

[skunk]

Well, well. Me too! An outbreak of complete agreement! :)

[Lord Blackadder]

I think you're probably right, 'rat - though the rhetoric is still very throwback. I hope it's mostly just face-saving saber-rattling.

[Macky-Mac]

Umm. I don't see the Russians as "relishing". I'll stay with the view that they feared encirclement, and are doing a relative minimum to stave it off. So far, they've sent a pretty good "Back off!" message.

Odds are that if we spout enough goo to make it look like we've saved face, we'll back off. Dunno. We surely can't afford to expand any military posture; we not only don't have the money, there's no support to print more for that purpose.

maybe it's time for a peace summit complete with an exchange of presents? Bush could give Putin that "mission accomplished" banner, Putin could give Bush 4 slightly used Humvees, and everybody can scowl at the Georgians and tell them not to do it again

[clevin]

i still think its Mikheil Saakashvili being extremely stupid, but who knows.

[Cleverboy]

Isn't he talking about McCain's campaign advisor who was also a paid PR man for Georgia? Can't find the link at the moment.The ticker tape goes:

McCain spokesperson claimed that a terror attack and death of Bhutto benefited McCain and got heat for the remarks.
McCain’s chief strategist, Charlie Black, tells Fortune that the “unfortunate event” of Bhutto’s death “helped us.” Asked if another terrorist attack on U.S. soil would help McCain as well, Black told Fortune that it would be “a big advantage to him“

Now, Putin suggests that Americans on the ground encouraged Georgia to attack and cause a foreign policy kerfuffle intended to have the ancilliary benefit to enhancing a U.S. presidential candidate's foreign policy strength. Combine that with the fact that one of McCain's campaign advisors is a paid lobbyist for Georgia... and it starts to look fairly f-ed up. I'd been hearing reports that the administration was repeatedly telling Georgia that anything like that would be a BAD IDEA and yet, even though this had been going on a WHILE (tension between Russia and Georgia), the whole thing sets off while Obama takes a vacation from the campaign trail.
The very odd thing about this is that Washington was signaling fairly clearly that it would be powerless to stop Russia if Saak'ashvili provoked them.His links with McCain the hiring of PR companies and the arms flowing from the US Israel and Turkey lead me to think the Chicago economists have hooked another idiot into their half witted plan to turn the world clock back 150 years. He reminds me of the second hand car salesman image perfected by Tricky Dicky.
P.S. What I'm saying doesn't preclude the CIA or private adventurists operating inside Georgia nor that some members of the US administration were egging Saak'ashvili on.
Simply amazing timing, if nothing else. But, I honestly think there's something there.

~ CB

[Desertrat]

I dunno, Cleverboy. Seems to me all that conspiracy type stuff would require complex minds of fairly high intelligence--but coupled with a complete lack of understanding about the various players. Those just don't go together.

If Bush's people were saying no (which makes them not as dumb as folks are fond of saying) yet this cabal was saying go, somebody has more guts than I do, to go against the Big Man On Top. It won't be long before the paper and email trails are tracked, and the White House figures out just who said what to whom. Somebody's in really deep doo-doo. You don't screw up years of effort and then walk off unscathed.

[mattniles007]

The US being involved where they shouldn't be crazy crazy:rolleyes:

[Cleverboy]

It won't be long before the paper and email trails are tracked, and the White House figures out just who said what to whom. Somebody's in really deep doo-doo. You don't screw up years of effort and then walk off unscathed. Well, I think the rule that applies is "too big to fail". Right now, the stakes in the election, is exactly what would cause a surpression of culpability. My current assumption, is that McCain will win the election in November. But, the signs that have been cropping up, point to a somewhat deep knowledge that some damning things will happen:

1.) Democratic Majority as Republicans lose more seats.
2.) Democrats win the White House.
3.) George Bush's legacy on Iraq is forever in the toilet.

Palin and Georgia, conspiracy charge notwithstanding... I'm beginning to believe, smack of a much deeper sense of Republican desperation than I've previously suspected. You talk of paper trails and emails. I don't think you're talking about the Bush administration or those connected to it. If ANYTHING threatens the balance of power in government and/or further tarnishes Bush's chance at a reasonably decent legacy... it will be suppressed.

I agree though... this is conspiracy stuff. My antennae (currently, complete with tin-foil hat) has been raised though.

~ CB

[NT1440]

i can say that i honestly wouldnt doubt our administration would do something like that, but without any proof to back it up i cant beleive it.

[kabunaru]

http://www.revelation13.net/Putin.html

[archesdevil]

Bush and the Reps had there chance and the effed up. Now it's up to the Dems to fix the mess.

[Delta608]

Bush and the Reps had there chance and the effed up. Now it's up to the Dems to fix the mess.


I see how well the Dems haven't fixed anything with both majorities..



The Nuge for prez !!!!!

[solvs]

Cue up the DNC Smear Machine:

"This is all Bush's fault. If he hadn't invaded Iraq, the Russians wouldn't have invaded Georgia. And McCain is just Bush's 3rd term.":p
I realize you're just trying to respond to someone else's comment, but we don't really have much to say since we kinda did the same thing with Iraq. Something McCain wants to continue. Among a lot of other things he wants to continue. There's a reason people call him Bush's 3rd term. Voting almost 100% with someone then wanting to continue most of their policies will do that.

i can say that i honestly wouldnt doubt our administration would do something like that, but without any proof to back it up i cant beleive it.
It's very sad that as crazy this is, thanks to all the other crap the Bush administration has pulled, this is actually something we can even consider to be credible.

Had they not done all they have, we wouldn't.

I see how well the Dems haven't fixed anything with both majorities..
You mean their slight majority of the House, and their majority of 1 in the Senate, along with those who aren't there to vote, and the Dems who lean conservative? What do you expect? But I'm sure it's all their fault. The GOP did such a bang up job when they had all 3 branches. :rolleyes: