"Americans: what have they ever done for us?" - Split [Archive]

rasmasyean

Aug 28, 2008, 04:24 PM

Mods Note: Split from "Beijing 2008 Olympic Games - Caution, may contain results!"

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Which is ridiculous. I don't know why Americans strive to do everything in a different, ass-backwards way that doesn't make any more sense than doing it the way everyone else does it.

What's with all the America bashing? Is it like Microsoft bashing? Sour grapes and jealousy of that which has the most money? :confused:

Hey, if it wasn't for "Americans doing things different", much of the greatest discoveries and inventions would never have existed...like what you are looking at right now!

While all you other "patriots" of your own country are brainwashed by your culture to "follow the crowd", Americans who are taught to be "individuals" and think out of the box are supporting your lazy a$$ by bringing about the future.

And yeah...there are those who do what everyone else does in America too. They work to support those who do things different and capture the market.

So go ahead and retain your train of thought and accept being a lemming all your life! :cool: Nothing wrong with that, I mean. But even if you are, you have to accept that there are those who lead the way and it's best you don't mock them for doing so.

robbieduncan

Aug 28, 2008, 04:29 PM

Lau

Aug 28, 2008, 04:47 PM

Which great inventions would these be? Tv? Invented in the UK? Computers? Invented in the UK. The English language itself? Also a UK product

Edit to add, perhaps you mean the World Wide Web? Also invented by a brit, not an American

Robbie, Robbie, Robbie. You aren't thinking differently enough, you brainwashed fool. These aren't useful inventions! You must be thinking of wonders such as the Inside-The-Shell-Egg-Scrambler (http://www.ronco.com/rco_prodinfo.aspx?pid=ES100000GEN&color=&active=ascry), Inflatable Headboard (http://www.shopgetorganized.com/prodetail~itemNo~28763.asp), or Laser Scissors (http://www.shopgetorganized.com/prodetail~itemNo~24910.asp). :D

robbieduncan

Aug 28, 2008, 04:49 PM

Robbie, Robbie, Robbie. You aren't thinking differently enough, you brainwashed fool. These aren't useful inventions! You must be thinking of wonders such as the Inside-The-Shell-Egg-Scrambler (http://www.ronco.com/rco_prodinfo.aspx?pid=ES100000GEN&color=&active=ascry), Inflatable Headboard (http://www.shopgetorganized.com/prodetail~itemNo~28763.asp), or Laser Scissors (http://www.shopgetorganized.com/prodetail~itemNo~24910.asp). :D

Post of the Day for sure. Painful amounts of laughter :D

skunk

Aug 28, 2008, 04:51 PM

Sour grapes and jealousy of that which has the most money?Probably more like the most debt.

Hey, if it wasn't for "Americans doing things different", much of the greatest discoveries and inventions would never have existed...like what you are looking at right now!Television, motor cars, movable type, penicillin, the internet, parliamentary democracy, the list of things not invented by Americans goes on and on. Which ones were you thinking of? :confused:

While all you other "patriots" of your own country are brainwashed by your culture to "follow the crowd", Americans who are taught to be "individuals" and think out of the box are supporting your lazy a$$ by bringing about the future.An excellent example of brainwashed thinking. Full marks for irony.

So go ahead and retain your train of thought and accept being a lemming all your life! :cool: Nothing wrong with that, I mean. But even if you are, you have to accept that there are those who lead the way and it's best you don't mock them for doing so.Your analogy is extraordinarily apt, but being a leader of lemmings is not a role anybody in their right mind would aspire to.

calculus

Aug 28, 2008, 05:04 PM

robbieduncan

Aug 28, 2008, 05:09 PM

We pretty much invented America come to think of it...

But we're not proud of it are we?

I think we should blame the Vikings or whoever it was that really got there first :D

Don't panic

Aug 28, 2008, 05:27 PM

But we're not proud of it are we?

I think we should blame the Vikings or whoever it was that really got there first :D

nah, the vikings got there, promptly got they arses soundly kicked by the local native tribes, left, and never came back because it was "too dangerous".

Don't panic

Aug 28, 2008, 05:41 PM

Which great inventions would these be? Tv? Invented in the UK? Computers? Invented in the UK. The English language itself? Also a UK product

Edit to add, perhaps you mean the World Wide Web? Also invented by a brit, not an American

one of the few things more annoying than american flexing their virtual muscles is britons inflating their imperial throats ;)

btw, most would credit a german (zuse) with the invention of the modern 'computer', although it pretty much depends on how you define it.
same goes for TV, where i'd say 'the' most significant contributions were done either by a russian (Zworykin). in terms of of a 'real' (electronic) TV i'd have to go with american Farnsworth.

i'd give you the english language, except it was talked already by the saxons on the continent and certainly on the british isles way before the establishment of the United Kingdom...

Lau

Aug 28, 2008, 05:46 PM

^ I think you may find that we also invented humour. :p ;)

calculus

Aug 28, 2008, 05:47 PM

^ I think you may find that we also invented humour. :p ;)

We also know how to spell it...

:D:

Don't panic

Aug 28, 2008, 05:48 PM

^ I think you may find that we also invented humour. :p ;)

:D:D:D (not true of course ;) )

rasmasyean

Aug 28, 2008, 07:47 PM

^ I think you may find that we also invented humour. :p ;)

You mean like Benny Hill and Mr. Been? I'm not sure you can consider that a contribution to humanity... :p

rasmasyean

Aug 28, 2008, 08:06 PM

OK, let me tell you about the internet. It was a method to enable computers to communicate with each other in the event that a nuclear blast(s) will take out a cluster of computers. This will enable all other computers to launch a counter-attack toward the USSR during the cold war. I’m sure you can trace the “idea” to some other bozo before USA existed, but this was actually built and was “operational”. Is it no surprise that the WWW became public as the cold war ended? They actually called it the "information superhighway". ahh...remeber those days? :)

As for the nuclear bomb of course, we know who invented that one regardless of who “theorized it”. Before you start knocking that invention with peace loving bunny ravings, it prevented WW3 and likely in part powers what you are looking at now.

And where did you get that thing in front of you as well as your automobiles and many other things that were and weren’t invented in America? Robots (invented in America) made them.

Don’t give me this crap about who “thought of it first” or made some crude interpreted version in their basement. No one gives a crap about that. It’s whoever makes it producible in mass quantity that benefits everyone else that gets the credit. :cool:

iJohnHenry

Aug 28, 2008, 08:35 PM

You mean like Benny Hill and Mr. Been? I'm not sure you can consider that a contribution to humanity... :p

And, before we return to our regularly scheduled program, it's Mr. Bean, as in legume.

scotthayes

Aug 29, 2008, 02:22 AM

What the hell happened in here over night :eek:

Think we need to just calm down a little. Maybe we should just say that they are all pretty damn good at what they do. In fact, just becoming an Olympian is pretty impressive in its self.

And rasmasyean, it's not American bashing, most just find it funny/strange that America does some things different. Such as the medal table or the way you write the date 8/29/08 would be 29/08/08 to most others.

stoich

Aug 29, 2008, 02:25 AM

All I have to say is Michael Phelps Rules and the Chinese gymnasts and the Judging are CHEATERS!!!

scotthayes

Aug 29, 2008, 02:34 AM

All I have to say is Michael Phelps Rules and the Chinese gymnasts and the Judging are CHEATERS!!!

Once again I find myself banging my head against the wall...

Abstract

Aug 29, 2008, 03:10 AM

What's with all the America bashing? Is it like Microsoft bashing? Sour grapes and jealousy of that which has the most money? :confused:

Hey, if it wasn't for "Americans doing things different", much of the greatest discoveries and inventions would never have existed...like what you are looking at right now!

While all you other "patriots" of your own country are brainwashed by your culture to "follow the crowd", Americans who are taught to be "individuals" and think out of the box are supporting your lazy a$$ by bringing about the future.

And yeah...there are those who do what everyone else does in America too. They work to support those who do things different and capture the market.

So go ahead and retain your train of thought and accept being a lemming all your life! :cool: Nothing wrong with that, I mean. But even if you are, you have to accept that there are those who lead the way and it's best you don't mock them for doing so.

Dood, America is like....so rebellious! They count the medals wrong....and it's like WHOA! This is sooooo going to lead us to all these awesome things.

Let me put it to you this way: There are those who rebel for a cause....for a reason. There are those who "rebel" just to rebel. Rebel against what? Nobody knows. American isn't going against the grain because Option B is better than Option A. Using a different system for declaring the most successful country at the Olympics was done purely for ego. But go ahead and believe that Americans always do things their own way because it's better....*cough*lemming.

And I wasn't bashing America in general. I gave credit to "another great American Olympian" named Carl Lewis. You seem to have skipped that part. I wouldn't have given Carl that much credit if I hated America that much.

Robbie, Robbie, Robbie. You aren't thinking differently enough, you brainwashed fool. These aren't useful inventions! You must be thinking of wonders such as the Inside-The-Shell-Egg-Scrambler (http://www.ronco.com/rco_prodinfo.aspx?pid=ES100000GEN&color=&active=ascry), Inflatable Headboard (http://www.shopgetorganized.com/prodetail~itemNo~28763.asp), or Laser Scissors (http://www.shopgetorganized.com/prodetail~itemNo~24910.asp). :D

You do realize what's going to be in the history books, right?

"In 1995, a great American inventor named George Foreman revolutionized indoor grilling with......" ;)

OK, let me tell you about the internet. It was a method to enable computers to communicate with each other in the event that a nuclear blast(s) will take out a cluster of computers. This will enable all other computers to launch a counter-attack toward the USSR during the cold war. I’m sure you can trace the “idea” to some other bozo before USA existed, but this was actually built and was “operational”. Is it no surprise that the WWW became public as the cold war ended? They actually called it the "information superhighway". ahh...remeber those days? :)

As for the nuclear bomb of course, we know who invented that one regardless of who “theorized it”. Before you start knocking that invention with peace loving bunny ravings, it prevented WW3 and likely in part powers what you are looking at now.

And where did you get that thing in front of you as well as your automobiles and many other things that were and weren’t invented in America? Robots (invented in America) made them.

Don’t give me this crap about who “thought of it first” or made some crude interpreted version in their basement. No one gives a crap about that. It’s whoever makes it producible in mass quantity that benefits everyone else that gets the credit. :cool:

Can you tell us what schools you have gone to so that we can avoid them? :confused:

skunk

Aug 29, 2008, 03:20 AM

And where did you get that thing in front of youChina, I think, as it happens.

Peterkro

Aug 29, 2008, 03:32 AM

Might I just put in a good word about Lemmings,the behaviour attributed to Lemmings and used in previous posts to refer to non thinking blind following of the leader is in fact a total invention by Hollywood and has no connection to the animals actual behaviour.

rasmasyean

Aug 29, 2008, 03:46 AM

China, I think, as it happens.

Most things aren't manufactured in USA or other Western Nations anymore including robots. But Joseph Engleberger is known as the "Father of Robotics" and made this... Unimate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unimate) until these types of things were eventually manufactured and evolved in places like Japan, Germany, etc. likely due to the fact that much of America's Science and Technology resources had been diverted toward weapons research and production during the Cold War.

Counterfit

Aug 29, 2008, 03:48 AM

rasmasyean

Aug 29, 2008, 03:58 AM

Can you tell us what schools you have gone to so that we can avoid them? :confused:

I don’t think you need to go to school to know those things these days… :rolleyes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARPANET
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_project
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unimate

Note that although the Manhattan Project has other Allied Scientists involved, it was lead and commissioned by the United States. And all the development sites were in the United States.

scotthayes

Aug 29, 2008, 04:00 AM

Guess I should be happy that the politics stayed out of this thread whilst the Olympics were on. So sad to see it descending in to a slanging match. Maybe it's time for the thread to be closed and you can take all the political crap into the PRSI area.

robbieduncan

Aug 29, 2008, 04:41 AM

OK, let me tell you about the internet. It was a method to enable computers to communicate with each other in the event that a nuclear blast(s) will take out a cluster of computers. This will enable all other computers to launch a counter-attack toward the USSR during the cold war. I’m sure you can trace the “idea” to some other bozo before USA existed, but this was actually built and was “operational”. Is it no surprise that the WWW became public as the cold war ended? They actually called it the "information superhighway". ahh...remeber those days? :)

Whilst I think this is probably a bad idea (carrying on this stupid OT discussion) you will find that I said the web, not the Internet. The Internet was indeed invented by Americans. I did not claim otherwise. The World Wide Web along with the first Web Browser on the otherhand was not. So many people these days assume the Internet = the World Wide Web. Clearly they do not remember the days when Gopher ruled the tiny virtual world.

And where did you get that thing in front of you as well as your automobiles and many other things that were and weren’t invented in America? Robots (invented in America) made them.

I think you'll find that history tells us the automobile (note this is not an English word) was invented in Europe. And as for robot? It's roots are Czech.

Jaffa Cake

Aug 29, 2008, 05:31 AM

scotthayes

Aug 29, 2008, 05:54 AM

Unfortunately, I think you might be right. The medals have stopped, the meddling has begun.

A shame but guess some people just can't enjoy sports without turning it in to a political fight. Request sent to mods to lock it. :(

robbieduncan

Aug 29, 2008, 06:01 AM

Unfortunately, I think you might be right. The medals have stopped, the meddling has begun.

I already reported my own post above asking that it, and all the related posts, get moved to a new thread in PRSI. I suggested the title "Americans: What have they ever done for us"...

And the moderators have rewarded us with a new thread to continue this in. Many thanks :)

fivepoint

Aug 29, 2008, 08:44 AM

Television, motor cars, movable type, penicillin, the internet, parliamentary democracy, the list of things not invented by Americans goes on and on. Which ones were you thinking of? :confused:

Perhaps he was talking about the computer. The first computer was invented in America. Right here in Iowa, come to think of it. Go Iowa State University! (http://www.scl.ameslab.gov/ABC/Articles/First-computer.html)

Lau

Aug 29, 2008, 08:48 AM

^ I think the main point is that a lot of people in a lot of countries have somehow managed to invent a lot of useful things, in spite of our conformist medal-counting ways and lives of predicable drudgery that we have outside the glorious free-thinking US. ;)

Thanks to xUKHCx for separating the chaff from the wheat, as it were.

Peterkro

Aug 29, 2008, 08:49 AM

Perhaps he was talking about the computer. The first computer was invented in America. Right here in Iowa, come to think of it. Go Iowa State University! (http://www.scl.ameslab.gov/ABC/Articles/First-computer.html)

You should make clear your referring to electronic computing machines and not electro-mechanical nor purely mechanical computers.

robbieduncan

Aug 29, 2008, 08:51 AM

Perhaps he was talking about the computer. The first computer was invented in America. Right here in Iowa, come to think of it. Go Iowa State University! (http://www.scl.ameslab.gov/ABC/Articles/First-computer.html)

I think that there are many who would dispute what makes a computer. For example Manchester (http://www.computer50.org/) (England) would claim to have had the first modern computer.

Others would point at von Neumann (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_von_Neumann) (Hungary) as the inventor of modern computing: certainly the architecture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Neumann_architecture) of all modern computers is named after him.

Still others would point to Turing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing) (England). After all the von Neumann architecture is simply an implementation of the Turing Machine.

fivepoint

Aug 29, 2008, 09:07 AM

You guys wouldn't even know how to wipe your butts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilet_Paper) without the Americans. :)

The list goes on and on: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_inventions)

1784 Bifocal Glasses
1794 Cotton Gin
1834 Threshing machine
1836 Combine Harvester
(modern agriculture)
1837 Telegraph Machine
1846 Cylinder Printing Press
1857 Passenger Elevator Safety System
1859 Oil Well
1860 Water Tower
1860 Repeating rifle
1867 Barbed Wire
1867 Toilet Paper
1873 Blue Jeans
1877 Telephone
1879 Cash Register
1880 Hearing Aid
1882 Electric Fan
1882 Electric Iron
1882 Fountain Pen
1885 Skyscraper
1886 Coca-Cola
1888 Electric Motor
1891 Escalator
1891 Radio
1896 Zipper
1901 Safety razor
1901 Assembly Line Production
1902 Air Conditioner
1903 Airplane
1903 Crayons
1905 Windshield Wipers
1905 Popsicle (aka Icy Pole)
1908 Tea Bags
1921 BAND-AID
1923 Masking Tape
1926 Liquid-Fueled Rocket
1927 Bread Slicer
1928 Bubble Gum
1930 Scotch Tape (aka Cellotape, sticky tape)
1930 Chocolate Chip Cookie
1931 Particle accelerator
1931 Radio Astronomy
1937 Chair Lift
1937 Photocopier
1938 Nylon
1942 Defibrillator
1945 Microwave Oven
1947 Cellular Phones (aka Mobile Phones)
1950 Disposable Diaper (aka Nappies)
1953 Heart-lung machine
1955 Nuclear Submarine
1959 Integrated Circuit
1960 Combined oral contraceptive pill
1960 Laser
1963 Artificial Heart
1970 Optical Fiber
1972 Calculator
1981 Space Shuttle
1982 Artificial Heart
1983 TCP/IP Protocol
1988 Graphical User Interface
1990 Hubble Telescope
1995 Galileo (spacecraft)

robbieduncan

Aug 29, 2008, 09:10 AM

wipe your butts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilet_Paper) without the Americans. :)

To be fair we wouldn't even call them butts without Americans :)

edesignuk

Aug 29, 2008, 09:13 AM

You guys wouldn't even know how to wipe your butts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilet_Paper) without the Americans. :)http://up.edesignuk.com/files/1/Images/Smilies/CobblersEnglandFlag.png

robbieduncan

Aug 29, 2008, 09:17 AM

http://up.edesignuk.com/files/1/Images/Smilies/CobblersEnglandFlag.png

Apparently so: the Chinese (http://www.ideafinder.com/history/inventions/toiletpaper.htm) had toilet paper almost 500 years before the American patented it. I think we have to credit them with inventing rolls of pre-perforated TP though.

Lau

Aug 29, 2008, 09:18 AM

The list goes on and on <snip>

I don't think anyone is saying that there haven't been a whole load of useful and intelligent inventions by Americans (as there have been from a lot of countries), but rasmasyean is implying that that counting medals or writing dates in a different way to the rest of world for seemingly no good reason is somehow indicative of a free spirit unique to the US, which directly lead to inventions along the lines of the nuclear bomb, which is tenuous at best.

fivepoint

Aug 29, 2008, 09:19 AM

To be fair we wouldn't even call them butts without Americans :)

Touche'. ;) I hope you see the smiley face there. It was meant as a joke.

However, regarding your computer posts... Neumann invented the first computer with the ability to save a program. That is a FEATURE, but he did not invent the digital computer. The digital computer was invented by Professor John Vincent Atanasoff at Iowa State University in Ames, Iowa. (http://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000984.htm)

fivepoint

Aug 29, 2008, 09:21 AM

I don't think anyone is saying that there haven't been a whole load of useful and intelligent inventions by Americans (as there have been from a lot of countries), but rasmasyean is implying that that counting medals or writing dates in a different way to the rest of world for seemingly no good reason is somehow indicative of a free spirit unique to the US, which directly lead to inventions along the lines of the nuclear bomb, which is tenuous at best.

Hey, the backbone of the nuclear bomb was invented by Einstein. He was a German and only came to America so we could save his butt from the Nazis. Perhaps you would have preferred for them to "invent the bomb" instead?

Besides, nuclear energy is an amazing thing. Assuming we don't blow ourselves up, it will likely prove to be one of the most important inventions in modern history.

g4cubed

Aug 29, 2008, 09:21 AM

... penicillin, ... Which ones were you thinking of? :confused:

Not to rain on your parade but it was originally noticed by a French medical student, Ernest Duchesne, in 1896. Penicillin was re-discovered by bacteriologist Alexander Fleming working at St. Mary's Hospital in London in 1928. ;)

Lau

Aug 29, 2008, 09:28 AM

Hey, the backbone of the nuclear bomb was invented by Einstein. He was a German and only came to America so we could save his butt from the Nazis. Perhaps you would have preferred for them to "invent the bomb" instead?

No, no no! Have a look at the first post. I'm not arguing about whether one country invented more, or whether an invention is a good thing or not. I was trying to get that across in the last one.

I'm just pointing out that rasmasyean's argument that counting olympic medals in some random way (that makes the US have more of them ;)) does not equal some sort of free thinking spirit that led to more inventions, and, similarly, that those of us outside the US aren't "brainwashed lazy-asses", as he so charmingly puts it, just because we count our medals in the same way as the rest of the world.

robbieduncan

Aug 29, 2008, 09:33 AM

I'm just pointing out that rasmasyean's argument that counting olympic medals in some random way (that makes the US have more of them ;)) does not equal some sort of free thinking spirit that led to more inventions, and, similarly, that those of us outside the US aren't "brainwashed lazy-asses", as he so charmingly puts it, just because we count our medals in the same way as the rest of the world.

Exactly. The rest of this is just fun. We love you crazy bomb-inventing dudes really :D

fivepoint

Aug 29, 2008, 09:47 AM

Exactly. The rest of this is just fun. We love you crazy bomb-inventing dudes really :D

Hey, thanks! Yeah, Einstein was a pretty sweet dude. Especially when you got a few brews in him. That cat could PARTAAAY!

obeygiant

Aug 29, 2008, 09:50 AM

One important american invention, orthodontic braces (http://www.archwired.com/HistoryofOrtho.htm), hasn't seemed to make it over the pond to jolly ol' England yet. Not sure why? (http://farm1.static.flickr.com/40/90535538_087876e6b7.jpg?v=0) Good show, chap! ;)

Sdashiki

Aug 29, 2008, 09:50 AM

PEANUT BUTTER!

'nuf said.

Without the US, youd have a paltry assortment of sweets to choose from worldwide.

iBlue

Aug 29, 2008, 09:56 AM

PEANUT BUTTER!

'nuf said.

Without the US, youd have a paltry assortment of sweets to choose from worldwide.

Oh yeah, those hershey bars, they're ace...

http://upc.edesignuk.com/uploads/smilies/barf.gif

I'm with you on the peanut butter though.

(you could start a marmite vs peanut butter war with this.)

__

this is a funny thread.

robbieduncan

Aug 29, 2008, 09:58 AM

PEANUT BUTTER!

'nuf said.

Without the US, youd have a paltry assortment of sweets to choose from worldwide.

I would have honestly thanked you to not invent that. It's vile. And everything made with it tastes horrible too. Especially that nasty, low grade junk you call chocolate (http://www.hersheys.com/reeses/)

http://www.pistonheads.com/inc/images/hurl.gif

és:

Aug 29, 2008, 09:58 AM

I hope we can invent a 'Classics' section on MR. This thread would be straight in there!

Don't panic

Aug 29, 2008, 10:08 AM

I would have honestly thanked you to not invent that. It's vile. And everything made with it tastes horrible too. Especially that nasty, low grade junk you call chocolate (http://www.hersheys.com/reeses/)

http://www.pistonheads.com/inc/images/hurl.gif

totally with robbieduncan on this one.
if every invention counts 1 point, peanut butter should be a sound -10.
Nutella, on the other hand...

Sdashiki

Aug 29, 2008, 10:31 AM

Thats it.

Against Peanut Butter & Chocolate?

The ultimate combination?

Im sorry, but Im outta here. The world has officially gone mad.

:mad:

calculus

Aug 29, 2008, 10:32 AM

Without the US, youd have a paltry assortment of sweets to choose from worldwide.

Credit Crunch is nice, thanks for that one ;)

MrSmith

Aug 29, 2008, 12:09 PM

This thread is a parody, I assume.

BoyBach

Aug 29, 2008, 12:49 PM

Perhaps he was talking about the computer. The first computer was invented in America. Right here in Iowa, come to think of it. Go Iowa State University! (http://www.scl.ameslab.gov/ABC/Articles/First-computer.html)

If they were still alive, I think that Charles Babbage and Ada Lovelace would have something to say about that claim. Or the ancient Greeks, for that matter...

If there's on thing I wish the British didn't invent, it would have to be 'liberal intervention.'

bbotte

Aug 29, 2008, 12:52 PM

I would just like to state, that Europe's national language right now might be German if it was not for my Great Grandfather and his brothers, AKA "Americans".

BoyBach

Aug 29, 2008, 12:55 PM

I would just like to state, that Europe's national language right now might be German if it was not for my Great Grandfather and his brothers, AKA "Americans".

Don't forget the Russians - who are conveniently overlooked when people reinvent the history of the Second World War.

Peterkro

Aug 29, 2008, 12:57 PM

I would just like to state, that Europe's national language right now might be German if it was not for my Great Grandfather and his brothers, AKA "Americans".

Catholic family?

robbieduncan

Aug 29, 2008, 01:02 PM

I would just like to state, that Europe's national language right now might be German if it was not for my Great Grandfather and his brothers, AKA "Americans".

That's OK. I can speak German :D

scotthayes

Aug 29, 2008, 01:40 PM

The computer is a British invention so stop claiming it (ever heard of Charles Babbage or Tommy Flowers????)

And don't forget the Television - Good old John Logie Baird

And it's thanks to another Brit that we are all here taking the mickey out of each other :D yup I'm talking about the WWW and Sir Tim Burners Lee.

Now I could fax you all these details. Of course the fax machine is yet another British invention.

Tell you what, I'll fly over there in a jet plane. Now who was it who invented the jet engine??? Oh yeah Sir Frank Whittle.

But I will be fair, I do have to thank you for Jack Daniel's and coke :D or http://www.pistonheads.com/inc/images/hurl.gif when I've had to many of them...

Off now to look out of the windows... Just a quick thought, who invented plate glass??? Of course, silly me, it was Sir Alastair Pilkington

tell you what, let's stop all this silly talk. Call me only the telephone... Damn, another Brit inventor who came up with than one :D

Jaffa Cake

Aug 29, 2008, 02:27 PM

I would just like to state, that Europe's national language right now might be German if it was not for my Great Grandfather and his brothers, AKA "Americans".Hmm. I've heard this statement repeated many times over the years, and I think it's important that we put things straight with a few simple facts.

It's totally wrong to say that we British 'would be speaking German now if it wasn't for America', as it completely and conveniently ignores the fact that we're totally incapable of learning any language other than our own. And at times we even struggle with that.

The idea that we'd have been able to master even the simplest of Teutonic phrases after 60+ years of Nazi dictatorship and oppression is frankly laughable. So there.

iGary

Aug 29, 2008, 02:35 PM

Game over.

You guys thoroughly destroy the meaning of breakfast.

http://www.londondailypicture.com/images/october_2007/english-breakfast-blackpudding-min.jpg

scotthayes

Aug 29, 2008, 02:39 PM

^^^^^ Now I'm hungry...

You really do need to try a proper "full English" sets you up for the day and quite possibly a heart attack :D

fivepoint

Aug 29, 2008, 02:44 PM

The computer is a British invention so stop claiming it (ever heard of Charles Babbage or Tommy Flowers????)

Actually, no, I haven't. Have you heard of John vincent Atanasoff?
The digital computer was invented by him, at Iowa State University in Ames, Iowa. (http://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000984.htm)

Unspeaked

Aug 29, 2008, 02:48 PM

scotthayes

Aug 29, 2008, 02:54 PM

Actually, no, I haven't. Have you heard of John vincent Atanasoff?
The digital computer was invented by him, at Iowa State University in Ames, Iowa. (http://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000984.htm)

I'll see your John Vincent Atanasoff and raise you a Charles Babbage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Babbage)

Oh and Poker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poker) looks like the Germans got that one (kind of :D)

skunk

Aug 29, 2008, 02:54 PM

CAVITY MAGNETRON. [/discussion]

Jaffa Cake

Aug 29, 2008, 02:56 PM

CAVITY MAGNETRON. [/discussion]One of my all-time favourite Bond girls.

floyde

Aug 29, 2008, 03:13 PM

fivepoint

Aug 29, 2008, 03:19 PM

I'll see your John Vincent Atanasoff and raise you a Charles Babbage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Babbage)

Oh and Poker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poker) looks like the Germans got that one (kind of :D)

Those are mechanical computers! I said the first digital/modern computer! People with an abacas were once called computers too, how far do you want to go back?

Again... the first digital computer was invented in Ames, Iowa at Iowa State University.

Hello.there

Aug 29, 2008, 04:22 PM

While all you other "patriots" of your own country are brainwashed by your culture to "follow the crowd", Americans who are taught to be "individuals" and think out of the box are supporting your lazy a$$ by bringing about the future.

Good grief.

rasmasyean

Aug 29, 2008, 04:42 PM

I'll try not to take sides in this battle, but I would like to point out that many of the inventions the Brits keep mentioning - such as the computer and television - are such that in and of themselves, they're quite useless. They value in these and countless other inventions comes in what can be done with them, and this is where the United States has done incredible things (both good and bad, I must admit).

Look at the computer alone - Adobe, Microsoft and (of course) Apple are all American companies, and how useful would that box you call a computer be without them?

Heh, it's called Scraping the Bottom of the Barrel (http://www.allwords.com/word-scrape+the+bottom+of+the+barrel.html).

Even going as far as the one who invented the word "robot" from a play! :rolleyes:

And if you are really looking to credit what made today's version of widespread cheap computing possible, this is what started it all - Integrated Circuit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_circuit). After which, other American inventions further cascaded it to again..."what's in front of you". :p

And as you can see, perhaps the Brits sometimes have some good "pie in the sky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pie_in_the_sky)" ideas, but until you make it a reality, it's worthless. :cool:

I have to say that I find all of this a bit silly. Just because a guy from your nationality invented something, doesn't mean that you get to share the credit with him. Furthermore, it is very unlikely that an inventor's nationality has anything at all to do with his ability to invent.

The argument is about whether Americans "doing things different" is ridiculous. :o

Game over.

You guys thoroughly destroy the meaning of breakfast.
§

Uh...Americans invented the 2000 calorie breakfast?

Lau

Aug 29, 2008, 04:46 PM

Uh...Americans invented the 2000 calorie breakfast?

Well, as long as you have something to be really proud of. :p

Anyway, how is that doing things 'differently'? That's just doing things 'fattily'. :D

rasmasyean

Aug 29, 2008, 04:50 PM

calculus

Aug 29, 2008, 04:52 PM

USA had to save your necks

As I recall, you took your time about it. But let's not go into that.

it5five

Aug 29, 2008, 04:58 PM

What? Americans invented Modern England! Your old country was leveled by the Germans and the USA had to save your necks and rebuild your house! And practically all attacks that came from your little Island were by Americans flying USA planes!

We sure took our sweet ass time to "save their necks", sitting back and making profit from death.

If you want to be simplistic about the whole thing, then the Russians would have probably had the mess sorted up anyway even if we hadn't intervened.

Lau

Aug 29, 2008, 04:59 PM

What? Americans invented Modern England!

Again, let me introduce you to something called humour. It's used in this case when someone makes a light-hearted comment, and that's what the fine Jaffa Cake has done in this post. One derivative of humour is self-deprecation, and again, that's something the wily fox Mr. Cake has managed to deploy in his post. If you read it carefully, as in actually manage to put the words together rather than reading "Germans!... "America!"... "Britain!", it might sink in that Mr. Cake was in fact making fun of himself and the British.

But please don't let your incapability of understanding complex humour, or indeed, your complete lack of comprehension ability get in the way of a good old-fashioned all-American frothy-mouthed rant.

________________________________________________________

New words to learn:

humour________self-deprecation________subtlety________reading

calculus

Aug 29, 2008, 05:05 PM

incapability of understanding complex humour

Maybe I should mention that even the title of this thread is an example of fine British humour, or do people think that the Pythons were American too...

skunk

Aug 29, 2008, 05:05 PM

New words to learn:

self-depreciationA new word for Ms Lau: self-deprecation. :cool:

Lau

Aug 29, 2008, 05:06 PM

A new word for Ms Lau: self-deprecation. :cool:

:o

Oops! That's what I get for indulging in a hastily spell-checked frothy-mouthed rant then, isn't it? :D

Current value of Lau: Slightly lower than in post #76.

Peterkro

Aug 29, 2008, 05:06 PM

CAVITY MAGNETRON. [/discussion]

It's well know it is in fact the MacCavity Magnetron and is another example of Scottish engineering powering the world.

skunk

Aug 29, 2008, 05:10 PM

It's well know it is in fact the MacCavity Magnetron and is another example of Scottish engineering powering the world.Aye, that it is.

rasmasyean

Aug 29, 2008, 05:20 PM

Hmm. I've heard this statement repeated many times over the years, and I think it's important that we put things straight with a few simple facts.

It's totally wrong to say that we British 'would be speaking German now if it wasn't for America', as it completely and conveniently ignores the fact that we're totally incapable of learning any language other than our own. And at times we even struggle with that.

The idea that we'd have been able to master even the simplest of Teutonic phrases after 60+ years of Nazi dictatorship and oppression is frankly laughable. So there.

Well, as long as you have something to be really proud of. :p

Anyway, how is that doing things 'differently'? That's just doing things 'fattily'. :D

Ahh...
McDonald's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mcdonalds) ...the classic example of American style Invention and English style Imperialism.

Again, let me introduce you to something called humour. It's used in this case when someone makes a light-hearted comment, and that's what the fine Jaffa Cake has done in this post. One derivative of humour is self-deprecation, and again, that's something the wily fox Mr. Cake has managed to deploy in his post. If you read it carefully, as in actually manage to put the words together rather than reading "Germans!... "America!"... "Britain!", it might sink in that Mr. Cake was in fact making fun of himself and the British.

But please don't let your incapability of understanding complex humour, or indeed, your complete lack of comprehension ability get in the way of a good old-fashioned all-American frothy-mouthed rant.

________________________________________________________

New words to learn:

humour________self-deprecation________subtlety________reading

Ah...but it is your lack of complex understanding of War and Conquest that has been lost in your own near annihilation. In the rubble, you would have re-emerged from scratch assimilated into the Nazi collective despite your "old folks" incapability to learn German.

I mean, one thing I would give the English credit for is as mentioned, the imperialism inventions that created America. Though as America has not been defeated since, I suppose the USA still understands imperialism more than any other nation it seems! :o

calculus

Aug 29, 2008, 05:36 PM

Ah...but it is your lack of complex understanding of War and Conquest that has been lost in your own near annihilation. In the rubble, you would have re-emerged from scratch assimilated into the Nazi collective.

I mean, one thing I would give the English credit for is as mentioned, the imperialism inventions that created America. Though as America has not been defeated since, I suppose the USA still understands imperialism more than any other nation it seems! :o

You found the one flaw in her argument, I salute you sir...
:rolleyes:

Lau

Aug 29, 2008, 05:44 PM

You found the one flaw in her argument, I salute you sir...
:rolleyes:

:D

It appears to be so astute that it's found a flaw in an argument I wasn't aware I was having. :p

Jaffa Cake

Aug 29, 2008, 05:48 PM

Maybe I should mention that even the title of this thread is an example of fine British humour, or do people think that the Pythons were American too...Well, to be fair one of them was. Of course, he did the funny cartoons – the rest was just padding.

bbotte

Aug 29, 2008, 05:50 PM

Catholic family?

No, Mormons have more kids then Catholics anyway, Chatholics just don't like birth control. Mormons she children as $$ to the church. No, not Mormon either. :p

calculus

Aug 29, 2008, 05:53 PM

Well, to be fair one of them was. Of course, he did the funny cartoons – the rest was just padding.

Oh no, you found the one flaw in my argument...

thechidz

Aug 29, 2008, 05:53 PM

i'd give you the english language, except it was talked already by the saxons on the continent and certainly on the british isles way before the establishment of the United Kingdom...

there is another thread about the english language, but I will just say the english comes from the teutonic (ie germanic) tribe the Angles. English is a germanic language with many many influences from other tribes.

cleanup

Aug 29, 2008, 05:54 PM

And people ask others why they dislike Americans.

Not that all of them are idiots, but the few that are... boy. And they sure are vocal, I'll give them that.

What, wrong thread?

bbotte

Aug 29, 2008, 05:55 PM

Lau

Aug 29, 2008, 05:57 PM

And people ask others why they dislike Americans.

That's just you being closed minded and thinking in a conventional way. ;)

scotthayes

Aug 29, 2008, 06:18 PM

What? Americans invented Modern England! Your old country was leveled by the Germans and the USA had to save your necks and rebuild your house! And practically all attacks that came from your little Island were by Americans flying USA planes!

Well you just took the fun out of this thread.

And Joe Kennedy sure was a fantastic help.

you sure did a fantastic job during the battle of Britain.

Next you will be telling me it was America that cracked Lorenz cipher.

Oh and that little island is more than just England (and not for nothing, there is more to England than London)

And let's be totally honest here, the real power against Germany in World War 2 was the Soviet Union.

One final thing before I return to the humour of the tread. The world will always have an issue with America until you learn to laugh at yourself.

hulugu

Aug 29, 2008, 06:27 PM

I have to say that I find all of this a bit silly. Just because a guy from your nationality invented something, doesn't mean that you get to share the credit with him. Furthermore, it is very unlikely that an inventor's nationality has anything at all to do with his ability to invent.

First, I have to agree with floyde. Whether or not an inventor came from the US or England doesn't really matter.

With that said, here's a list of things that AFAIK were invented by Americans:

Sextant, Cotton Gin, Refrigerator, Coffee Pot, Revolver, Repeating Rifle, Maxim Gun, Blue Jeans, the Telegraph, Offset Printing, Cash Register, Electric Fan, Electric Iron, Coca-Cola, Ferris Wheel, Safety Razor, Crayons, Scotch Tape, Xerox Machine, Heart-Lung Machine, Artificial Heart.

Also, let's not forget TCP/IP or the GUI.

As for WWII, let's be honest. No one knows exactly what would have happened had the US not entered the war. The Germans may have ultimately decided that a cornered England wasn't worth the trouble of invasion, especially when they were still fighting the Russians, and the Japanese's Navy would never have been the force needed to do anything but annoy the Russians. However, as the war dragged on, Russia might have collapsed from internal pressure.

Basically, it's the playground for alternate history SciFi, but no one us can really say that the British would be speaking German without US involvement.

TSE

Aug 29, 2008, 06:27 PM

If it wasn't for us Americans everybody would be speaking German!

Jaffa Cake

Aug 29, 2008, 06:32 PM

But you would have lost WWII if it were not for the manufacturing capabilities of the US then and our brave soldiers.Very possibly, but it's one of those 'we'll never know' discussions really.

I've read articles that have suggested that we and our other allies may well have overcome the Nazis eventually, but at a far, far greater cost than the already terrible losses we collectively suffered. Certainly, the extra manpower, weaponry and raw materials supplied by the US played a key role in Germany's eventual defeat, but to say that it's the sole reason that the Allies won the war is a bit over-simplistic I think. We've really no way of knowing hoe things might have panned out.

One thing I think should also be mentioned, harking back to the rather silly we invented this and you didn't debate... many advances in many walks of life were made as a result of the war, several of which stemmed from Nazi research. The US space programme is one such example, using as it did the expertise and experience of several defected Nazi scientists. So maybe the US wouldn't have won the space race without a bit of German help... ;)

If it wasn't for us Americans everybody would be speaking German!Nein. :rolleyes:

it5five

Aug 29, 2008, 06:32 PM

If it wasn't for the French we'd be speaking proper English!

hulugu

Aug 29, 2008, 06:38 PM

If it wasn't for the French we'd be speaking proper English!

I don't know, think of how much damage the Romans did? The French just added in some additional words, but shoehorn Latin into English and you're taking a perfectly good language and turning into the exception saddled mess with currently live with.

skunk

Aug 29, 2008, 06:44 PM

The French just added in some additional words, but shoehorn Latin into English and you're taking a perfectly good language and turning into the exception saddled mess with currently live with.What language is that? :confused:

thechidz

Aug 29, 2008, 06:50 PM

And people ask others why they dislike Americans.

Not that all of them are idiots, but the few that are... boy. And they sure are vocal, I'll give them that.

What, wrong thread?

wooooow.... Ive neeeevvvveeeer met an idiotic red-neck hick canadian before!!! never:rolleyes:

TheAnswer

Aug 29, 2008, 06:51 PM

What langvage is that? :confused:

There, fixed that for yov. :p

bbotte

Aug 29, 2008, 06:55 PM

Nein. :rolleyes:

Was hast du gesagt? :)

decksnap

Aug 29, 2008, 07:35 PM

So like uh...zzzzzzz what was the deal with the medals? :)

EVERY place I've seen medals listed 'In America'- newspaper, internet, television - it lists 4 columns. Gold, Silver, Bronze, and Total. What's the debate?

For the record I do agree with the original thesis in this breakout thread- A lot of brits on this forum with a hard on for America.

skunk

Aug 29, 2008, 07:40 PM

For the record I do agree with the original thesis in this breakout thread- A lot of brits on this forum with a hard on for America.That was the original thesis? :confused:

xUKHCx

Aug 29, 2008, 07:43 PM

So like uh...zzzzzzz what was the deal with the medals? :)

I don't get it either it is obvious that Uzbekistan were the best at the Olympics (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7576446.stm) bottom table.

EVERY place I've seen medals listed 'In America'- newspaper, internet, television - it lists 4 columns. Gold, Silver, Bronze, and Total. What's the debate?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2008/aug/14/bustedhowamericaturnedthe

NT1440

Aug 29, 2008, 07:48 PM

dukebound85

Aug 29, 2008, 07:49 PM

I don't get it either it is obvious that Uzbekistan were the best at the Olympics (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7576446.stm) bottom table.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2008/aug/14/bustedhowamericaturnedthe

the us has recorded the medals in gold, silver, bronze, total and has ranked in terms of total as far as i can remember

i dont get why people are focusing on this olympics on this issue

decksnap

Aug 29, 2008, 07:53 PM

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2008/aug/14/bustedhowamericaturnedthe

USA Today? That's the reference for the argument? :D
Note to world- the US has thousands of media outlets and USA today is near the bottom.

thechidz

Aug 29, 2008, 08:09 PM

yeah with the whole medal thing, of course china will win the most, they are the host country!!!

calculus

Aug 29, 2008, 08:17 PM

I don't get it either it is obvious that Uzbekistan were the best at the Olympics (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7576446.stm) bottom table.

Makes more sense to me than the other tables.

blackfox

Aug 29, 2008, 08:19 PM

What have Americans done for the rest of the world?

Well, we have provided an excellent role-model in variously:

1. Father
2. Teacher
3. Leader
4. Blowhard
5. Child
5. Clown
6. Buffoon
7. Bully
8. Priest
9. Idiot-Savant
10. Mental Patient
11. CEO
12. Innovater
13. Sloth

This thread is hilarious, btw.

rasmasyean

Aug 29, 2008, 08:20 PM

i do love my country, but i still dont see why we are so stubborn (and frankly, stupid) to not use the metric system.

THE VAST MAJORITY IF THE WORLD USES IT, we are just too lazy/stubborn to adopt it (if im not mistaken they tried in the 80's but there was an uproar)

USA was the first widely industrialized nation and hence has much more tooling, standards, roads, etc. to convert. More about economics than anything.

And don't forget, as mentioned that the English was pretty much destroyed along with their original system to start from scratch.

calculus

Aug 29, 2008, 08:21 PM

skunk

Aug 29, 2008, 08:22 PM

USA was the first widely industrialized nation and hence has much more tooling, standards, roads, etc. to convert. More about economics than anything.Of course you were. After all, the Industrial Revolution started in your country. How could we forget?

rasmasyean

Aug 29, 2008, 08:45 PM

As for WWII, let's be honest. No one knows exactly what would have happened had the US not entered the war. The Germans may have ultimately decided that a cornered England wasn't worth the trouble of invasion, especially when they were still fighting the Russians, and the Japanese's Navy would never have been the force needed to do anything but annoy the Russians. However, as the war dragged on, Russia might have collapsed from internal pressure.

Basically, it's the playground for alternate history SciFi, but no one us can really say that the British would be speaking German without US involvement.

Yeah it's hard to do What-if scenarios, but one thing for sure is that Russians, despite all propaganda, were running out of weapons and were just sending soldiers as meat shield to be hosed down by Nazis. There may be a lot of people in Russia, but the German war machine is pretty much a War Machine so...

If you look at the timing...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_Project
http://www.atomicmuseum.com/Tour/manhattanproject.cfm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Pearl_Harbor

You can see that America had already started the Atomic Bomb time-line before WWII began and went full scale even before the Pearl Harbor event.

Hence the likely outcome would have been the Atomic Bomb in Germany as well as Japan, as well as anywhere else there where Axis forces were stationed. Probably one would have been set off in England since it would have been leveled anyway and all the Nazis would be partying there in their ships (likely on the way to USA, remember that at that time England would be one of the best places for invading something like New York). Either way, America would have entered the war and changed it. With the Atomic version a much darker ending.

TheAnswer

Aug 29, 2008, 10:53 PM

If it weren't for the English, we'd probably all be speaking Spanish like the majority of Americans.

Jaffa Cake

Aug 30, 2008, 02:25 AM

And don't forget, as mentioned that the English was pretty much destroyed along with their original system to start from scratch.German bombing raids to our once proud ruler whittling industry did indeed prove very costly. Before the war, you couldn't walk through one of our many villages without hearing the sound of entire families hand carving those little measuring sticks drifting from every cottage.

Luckily, once the US had introduced us to the concept of factories after the war we were able to step up ruler production at a far greater scale than we had ever imagined would be possible, albeit with those pesky European measurements marked upon them.

MrSmith

Aug 30, 2008, 02:43 AM

Oh, God bless England. Any blessing left can go to Scotland and Ireland and that other place I always forget the name of. The US has had more than its fair share of blessing. And for the record, every time I see someone with their hand on their heart singing to a flag I think 'Third Reich'.

That was therapeutic... http://www.strokeboard.net/style_emoticons/default/Argh.gif

Jaffa Cake

Aug 30, 2008, 02:44 AM

Oh, God bless England. Any blessing left can go to Scotland and Ireland and that other place I always forget the name of.You're probably thinking of the Isle of Wight.

scotthayes

Aug 30, 2008, 02:45 AM

rasmasyean, have you ever been to the UK? And I don't mean London??? You seem an expert on how backwards we are and how if it wasn't for America we'd be just a pile of mud huts.

Jaffa Cake

Aug 30, 2008, 02:47 AM

You seem an expert on how backwards we are and how if it wasn't for America we'd be just a pile of mud huts.He's probably thinking of the Isle of Wight...

scotthayes

Aug 30, 2008, 02:56 AM

If it wasn't for us Americans everybody would be speaking German!

and if it wasn't for us you'd be speaking Russian, French, German, Dutch, Portuguese and Spanish...

MrSmith

Aug 30, 2008, 02:58 AM

and if it wasn't for us you'd be speaking Russian, French, German, Dutch, Portuguese and Spanish...
...and bollocks. Oh, wait a minute...

You notice the absence of other Americans in this thread? They'll wait till it's nearly locked then come in and claim the glory.

Sun Baked

Aug 30, 2008, 03:17 AM

Well you can blame us for Aids, since we tried to take credit for it, but I really think it was the French that did it.

skunk

Aug 30, 2008, 03:47 AM

Hence the likely outcome would have been the Atomic Bomb in Germany as well as Japan, as well as anywhere else there where Axis forces were stationed. Probably one would have been set off in England since it would have been leveled anyway and all the Nazis would be partying there in their ships (likely on the way to USA, remember that at that time England would be one of the best places for invading something like New York). Either way, America would have entered the war and changed it. With the Atomic version a much darker ending.Do you actually have the faintest idea what you are talking about?

.Andy

Aug 30, 2008, 04:22 AM

Iscariot

Aug 30, 2008, 04:30 AM

I don't get it either it is obvious that Uzbekistan were the best at the Olympics (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7576446.stm) bottom table.

You're overlooking the 6th table, where Uzebekistan won my heart.

BoyBach

Aug 30, 2008, 06:10 AM

Civilisation III was the best in the series.

Heretic! The world and his dog knows that Civ II is the best in the series. :p

Prof.

Aug 30, 2008, 02:04 PM

Bush.

'Nuf said.:cool:

Badandy

Aug 30, 2008, 02:30 PM

Planes, cars, and the commercialization of thousands of other products.

stubeeef

Aug 30, 2008, 03:14 PM

The US invented the rest of the world.

That is our main problem, you see after WWI we meddled with this League thing and again after WWII this UN thing. All a big mess that the US should not have invented, instead we should have made the world the 250 states. (satire, relax)

djellison

Aug 30, 2008, 05:21 PM

YEither way, America would have entered the war and changed it.

Yup - and done so out of the goodness of their own hearts.....

and then invoiced us, like you did after WWII. Took us 50 years to pay you back.

That reminds me - I must tell Gordon Brown to put the invoice into the post to GWB for the cost of the UK helping in Afghanistan and Iraq.

On a more serious note ( it's impossible to take this thread seriously to be honest ) I think both on the side of Americans reading this forum, and other people writing about Americans on this forum - there is confusion between 'America' the administration, and 'America' the population. Often people write criticism of 'America' when they mean the US government. All of the Americans I have met, and the parts of American I have visited were great.

Sadly, like all countries, it has the occasional complete americo-centric idiot - like the one who started this thread - and the one in the White House. They sort of let the side down to be honest.

robbieduncan

Aug 30, 2008, 05:53 PM

Will no-one think of America the continent rather than the country? Will no-one think of the Mexicans?

calculus

Aug 30, 2008, 05:55 PM

Will no-one think of the Mexicans?

You're right!

And they have good food...

rasmasyean

Aug 31, 2008, 12:41 AM

Do you actually have the faintest idea what you are talking about?

I suppose you are doubting the idea that America would have used the bomb in all those places if Japan wasn't the only one left who did not surrender?

You would have been wrong, because they built the atomic bomb to use it...as a "tactical" weapon even. What that means is that they would use it for "combat" and not just "drop somewhere and forget it". That's why they tested it on old ships and tanks and envisioned small scale artillery versions. At that time they did not know how devastating nuclear fallout and the after effects would be on the population. So under that hypothetical "no Pearl Harbor" scenario, it's not too far-fetched to think that America would have dropped atomic bombs all over the place before invasion.

thechidz

Aug 31, 2008, 01:06 AM

Will no-one think of America the continent rather than the country? Will no-one think of the Mexicans?

No... I'm sorry but it's just not idiomatic. deal with it

rasmasyean

Aug 31, 2008, 01:07 AM

Yup - and done so out of the goodness of their own hearts.....

and then invoiced us, like you did after WWII. Took us 50 years to pay you back.

No, it was self preservation. America would have entered WWII anyway to stop Germany (with troops or A-bombs) because they knew if the rest of Europe fell, Hitler would have targeted USA next. I don't think most Americans would have wanted to send their loved ones over to Europe just to save "foreigners" in the large scale bloodfest at the time. Pearl Harbor just made the entrance earlier. Perhaps to "bring the fight to the enemy" instead of risking another equivalent sitting duck episode? As you can see from the Manhattan Project history, they wanted to enter it with a bang while everyone was busy duking it out. There's always "National Interest". Would USA give a crap what Sadam does if there was no oil in Iraq? If there was no oil in that neck of the woods, Kuwait wouldn't even exist anymore and the UN would probably just say Sadam is a really bad man...and that's it! ;)

That reminds me - I must tell Gordon Brown to put the invoice into the post to GWB for the cost of the UK helping in Afghanistan and Iraq.

On a more serious note ( it's impossible to take this thread seriously to be honest ) I think both on the side of Americans reading this forum, and other people writing about Americans on this forum - there is confusion between 'America' the administration, and 'America' the population. Often people write criticism of 'America' when they mean the US government. All of the Americans I have met, and the parts of American I have visited were great.

Sadly, like all countries, it has the occasional complete americo-centric idiot - like the one who started this thread - and the one in the White House. They sort of let the side down to be honest.

What started it was the Olympic thread where some americo-hate idiots insulted America too many times. Then some americo-centric idiots felt they should set the facts straight by arguing with idiots. :D

thechidz

Aug 31, 2008, 01:09 AM

No, it was self preservation. America would have entered WWII anyway to stop Germany (with troops or A-bombs) because they knew if the rest of Europe fell, Hitler would have targeted USA next. I don't think most Americans would have wanted to send their loved ones over to Europe just to save "foreigners" in the large scale bloodfest at the time. Pearl Harbor just made the entrance earlier. Perhaps to "bring the fight to the enemy" instead of risking another equivalent sitting duck episode? As you can see from the Manhattan Project history, they wanted to enter it with a bang while everyone was busy duking it out. There's always "National Interest". Would USA give a crap what Sadam does if there was no oil in Iraq? If there was no oil in Iraq, Kuwait wouldn't even exist anymore and the UN would probably just say Sadam is a really bad man...and that's it! ;)

D

true and if there was no oil in kuwait there would have been no iraqi invasion...

TheAnswer

Aug 31, 2008, 01:21 AM

No, it was self preservation. America would have entered WWII anyway to stop Germany (with troops or A-bombs) because they knew if the rest of Europe fell, Hitler would have targeted USA next.

Well, if they managed to successfully defeat the Russians and sweep through the rest of Africa that is. It's more likely that if they managed to defeat the Russians, they would have been forced to stall their expansion to stabilize the occupation. I don't believe the U.S. mainland was ever in direct threat from the Germans, but the loss of markets and emerging markets was the primary concern. It was economic self-interest, not self-preservation. Same as on the Pacific front.

rasmasyean

Aug 31, 2008, 01:25 AM

Well, if they managed to successfully defeat the Russians and sweep through the rest of Africa that is. It's more likely that if they managed to defeat the Russians, they would have been forced to stall their expansion to stabilize the occupation. I don't believe the U.S. mainland was ever in direct threat from the Germans, but the loss of markets and emerging markets was the primary concern. It was economic self-interest, not self-preservation. Same as on the Pacific front.

Well if that was the case, then US should have sold stuff to the Germans then. :p

rasmasyean

Aug 31, 2008, 01:34 AM

On a more serious note ( it's impossible to take this thread seriously to be honest ) I think both on the side of Americans reading this forum, and other people writing about Americans on this forum - there is confusion between 'America' the administration, and 'America' the population. Often people write criticism of 'America' when they mean the US government. All of the Americans I have met, and the parts of American I have visited were great.

Good point. The part of America that's involved in "waging war" is probably what causes a lot of generalizations and political disputes. The other part of America is the "free-thinking" part that we started talking about originally. Microsoft and Adobe and whatever mentioned, etc. These are the ones who use the capitalist system to try things like "put a computer on ever home" and stuff. I mean, maybe the computer itself was originally intended to shoot artillery from ships and stuff, but not every American inventor had that in mind in expanding it's usage.

scotthayes

Aug 31, 2008, 03:40 AM

Good point. The part of America that's involved in "waging war" is probably what causes a lot of generalizations and political disputes. The other part of America is the "free-thinking" part that we started talking about originally. Microsoft and Adobe and whatever mentioned, etc. These are the ones who use the capitalist system to try things like "put a computer on ever home" and stuff. I mean, maybe the computer itself was originally intended to shoot artillery from ships and stuff, but not every American inventor had that in mind in expanding it's usage.

If you want to know why people (you know, the foreign one's that you spilt blood for) do have an attitude to some American, just go and read your posts in this thread. People where having a laugh and joke about all sorts of different things. But you have to take it down the "you'd be screwed without us route".

I'm love America. Some of it's people annoy the crap out of me (but no where near as much as some of the people in the UK do. I have to live with the morons in the UK, the morons in the states are at least 3,000 miles away and with that I'm happy) but as a person from a nation that is pretty reserved when it comes to shouting how great we are I do find all this USA USA USA kinda strange. About the only time you'll hear somebody from England chatting our name is at a football match. Normal, after 3 or 4 chants we break in to our national anthem.

You seem to think we all hate America, that is simply wrong. It's more like a parent who is pissed off with their teenage kid...

As for American products, we love them.
My Macbook Pro and my wife's macbook, love em.
TV shows, love em.
Your ever so polite service culture, love it.
Your sports, well they are ok, but you must learn to play cricket.
Your cars, well the ones from the 50s and 60s were cool, but could somebody mention to the engineers that we have some bad ass corners over here.

But you need to remember that there is a huge amount of good that has come out of the rest of the world and the world survived for a hell of a long time before America was born. In fact I can look out of my windows right now (well I could but it's a little foggy at the moment) and see at least 2 buildings that were built before 1492 and at least 3 more that were built before 1776.

So stop getting so pissed off with the rest of the world, learn to laugh at yourself (as a country that is) and have some fun.

skunk

Aug 31, 2008, 04:10 AM

Well if that was the case, then US should have sold stuff to the Germans then. :pMany people in the US, including Ford, GM and Prescott Bush were doing exactly that.

Iscariot

Aug 31, 2008, 04:23 AM

Well if that was the case, then US should have sold stuff to the Germans then. :p

...They did.

Peterkro

Aug 31, 2008, 05:28 AM

...They did.

Brown Brothers Harriman with ol' Prescott being a good example.

BoyBach

Aug 31, 2008, 08:49 AM

Various nonsense.

Sir, may I suggest that you learn your history from academia and not Hollywood hokum. :p

Many people in the US, including Ford, GM and Prescott Bush were doing exactly that.

We mustn't forget IBM.

Dagless

Aug 31, 2008, 09:31 AM

I always thought Baby was the first digital computer?

I'll try not to take sides in this battle, but I would like to point out that many of the inventions the Brits keep mentioning - such as the computer and television - are such that in and of themselves, they're quite useless. They value in these and countless other inventions comes in what can be done with them, and this is where the United States has done incredible things (both good and bad, I must admit).

Look at the computer alone - Adobe, Microsoft and (of course) Apple are all American companies, and how useful would that box you call a computer be without them?

Heh, US TV. When they finally make something of quality they douse adverts over it every 10 minutes.

I'll give you the computer one. Even though Europe had a few powerhouses too (Commodore, Sinclair, BBC Micro, Amstrad (<lul)). All mostly dead now though.

USA was the first widely industrialized nation and hence has much more tooling, standards, roads, etc. to convert. More about economics than anything.

And don't forget, as mentioned that the English was pretty much destroyed along with their original system to start from scratch.

How can somebody who acts like they know so much actually know very little? Industrial Revolution? Manchester... Cotton mills... First train?

So England was flattened during the war huh? :D Wonder that's why I live alongside cottages and mills from god knows which century.

At that time they did not know how devastating nuclear fallout and the after effects would be on the population. So under that hypothetical "no Pearl Harbor" scenario, it's not too far-fetched to think that America would have dropped atomic bombs all over the place before invasion.

So, after all them tests they still had no idea of what would happen. That's US thinking for you. My grandfather was one of the first into Japan after the bomb after the US told them it was now safe. Chap died from the effects of that soon after.

thechidz

Aug 31, 2008, 11:40 AM

Many people in the US, including Ford, GM and Prescott Bush were doing exactly that.

I believe the favorite Nazi beverage FANTA was an american product, coca cola actually...

skunk

Aug 31, 2008, 12:20 PM

Then some americo-centric idiots felt they should set the facts straight by arguing with idiots. :DYou're a sort of comedy American, aren't you? You aren't really such an ill-informed and jingoistic flag-waver as you make out. This is your funny internet persona, wherein you pretend to be an "ugly American" just to wind people up because you hate America so much. I see through your clever subterfuge. Are you a Russian conducting a devilish communistic cyber-campaign? I mean it's obvious that you can't possibly believe half the things you say. Nobody could.

TheAnswer

Aug 31, 2008, 12:34 PM

Final Tally:

Medal Type: :) ;) :p Total

United States 1 7 10 18
United Kingdom 9 5 3 17

:) = Gold
;) = Silver
:p = Bronze

BoyBach

Aug 31, 2008, 12:41 PM

Final Tally:

Medal Type: :) ;) :p Total

United States 1 7 10 18
United Kingdom 9 5 3 17

:) = Gold
;) = Silver
:p = Bronze

So a :p is worth more than a :). What's a :eek: worth?

robbieduncan

Aug 31, 2008, 01:00 PM

What's a :eek: worth?

World Record

thechidz

Aug 31, 2008, 01:02 PM

So a :p is worth more than a :). What's a :eek: worth?

thats what happens if skunk ever were to gain a sense of humor:eek:

skunk

Aug 31, 2008, 01:29 PM

thats what happens if skunk ever were to gain a sense of humor:eek:No, that's what would happen if I ever unleashed it. :cool:
:)

rasmasyean

Aug 31, 2008, 02:59 PM

How can somebody who acts like they know so much actually know very little? Industrial Revolution? Manchester... Cotton mills... First train?

So England was flattened during the war huh? :D Wonder that's why I live alongside cottages and mills from god knows which century.

So we have to play with words and take things out of context to make a point, eh? LOL I said "widely". Last time I checked we weren't talking about the 1800's when it was starting to take hold. As a matter of fact, after WWII one can say that USA was prolly the ONLY industrialized nation.

I would take it that those cottages and mills weren't primary targets so they survived until guess who showed up! ;)

So, after all them tests they still had no idea of what would happen. That's US thinking for you. My grandfather was one of the first into Japan after the bomb after the US told them it was now safe. Chap died from the effects of that soon after.

Sorry to hear about your Gramps. :( He gave his life in honor.
Science on the cutting-edge sometimes has it's costs. Asbestos was a wonder material until it caused cancer.

BoyBach

Aug 31, 2008, 03:09 PM

So we have to play with words and take things out of context to make a point, eh? LOL I said "widely". Last time I checked we weren't talking about the 1800's when it was starting to take hold. As a matter of fact, after WWII one can say that USA was prolly the ONLY industrialized nation.

I would take it that those cottages and mills weren't primary targets so they survived until guess who showed up! ;)

Seriously! You are taking the piss, right?

Jaffa Cake

Aug 31, 2008, 03:13 PM

I would take it that those cottages and mills weren't primary targets so they survived until guess who showed up! ;)Er, who exactly? :confused:

rasmasyean

Aug 31, 2008, 03:15 PM

Many people in the US, including Ford, GM and Prescott Bush were doing exactly that.

During Wartime? :confused:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease

skunk

Aug 31, 2008, 03:15 PM

Seriously! You are taking the piss, right?Either I was correct in my assessment, or this poster is the most ignorant to have graced these pages in many years. Astonishing.

During Wartime?
Yes indeed. Prescott Bush was had up for trading with the enemy. You mean you didn't know?
Er, who exactly?
Property developers from Hull?

Jaffa Cake

Aug 31, 2008, 03:23 PM

Property developers from Hull, obviously.Not from here, I can assure you. We were very heavily bombed during the war and as such didn't have the means to go developing property elsewhere.

On that subject, there's not a day I don't sit in this blackened, bombed out shell without wishing I could fix it up a bit. Maybe rasmasyean could have a quiet word with some of his chums and ask them to spruce the place up a bit? Nothing major or owt, just a roof would be nice. And some walls, while we're at it.

rasmasyean

Aug 31, 2008, 03:34 PM

Sir, may I suggest that you learn your history from academia and not Hollywood hokum. :p

What hollywood Hokum? That movie where they were sending in Russians on trains to pick up ammo in the death piles to load and shoot if I recall? I don't know how accurate that particular battle was but I ain't making anything up base on that movie if that's what you think...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f1/World_War_II_Casualties2.svg/550px-World_War_II_Casualties2.svg.png

All this time some of you have just been spouting hot air at me and my comments but I'm the only one who provides links to back up my "outrageous statements". Can you return with some evidence to make your lame insults worthy of the words you type? c'mon...It's a bloody challenge! :D

skunk

Aug 31, 2008, 03:40 PM

I'm the only one who provides links to back up my "outrageous statements". Can you return with some evidence to make your lame insults worthy of the words you type? c'mon...It's a bloody challenge! :DWhat exactly is your link supposed to prove? :confused:

BoyBach

Aug 31, 2008, 03:48 PM

All this time some of you have just been spouting hot air at me and my comments but I'm the only one who provides links to back up my "outrageous statements". Can you return with some evidence to make your lame insults worthy of the words you type? c'mon...It's a bloody challenge! :D

I'll start with this one - The Industrial Revolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_revolution) - and please promise me that you will read it.

rasmasyean

Aug 31, 2008, 04:10 PM

I'll start with this one - The Industrial Revolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_revolution) - and please promise me that you will read it.

OK, maybe my interpretation of "widely industrialized" is rather vague and it's a matter of interpretation. So forget that. :p

I was simply trying to point out that the English system was kept in USA because after the war there was so much crap already in place that the economy revolved around so it was really hard for them to change. While the English lost much of their crap and can change readily to the Metric system since they had to start a lot over. And other nations could much more easily use the Metric system as well. Which I would agree that it's much better.

It's just like the adoption of Microsoft Vista. :)

djellison

Aug 31, 2008, 04:11 PM

As a matter of fact, after WWII one can say that USA was prolly the ONLY industrialized nation.

You are wrong.

And you're making an idiot of yourself, and you're an embarrassment to your country and your fellow Americans.

rasmasyean

Aug 31, 2008, 04:27 PM

You are wrong.

And you're making an idiot of yourself, and you're an embarrassment to your country and your fellow Americans.

Yes I am wrong in that statement! I was meaning say between the US and UK in my hasty post. Sorry! :eek:

Jaffa Cake

Aug 31, 2008, 04:31 PM

While the English lost much of their crap and can change readily to the Metric system since they had to start a lot over.Metrification really kicked in here in the Sixties and Seventies, that must have been an awful long time to go without much of our crap.

The metrification process isn't near complete by any means, and both metric and Imperial units are in regular everyday usage. A key example are road signs, which show distances in miles and not kilometres – plans to convert these into kilometres were abandoned a few years back simply because of the huge cost and effort involved. Being able to 'readily change' wasn't quite possible it seems.

We still buy our beer and milk in pints, work out our fuel consumption in miles-per-gallon, buy our TVs based on how many inches wide their screens are, and routinely describe our heights in feet and inches – just a few examples of the many uses of the Imperial system we all come across every day in this country. We also continue to believe that if you give someone an inch, they'll take a mile.

rasmasyean

Aug 31, 2008, 04:40 PM

Metrification really kicked in here in the Sixties and Seventies, that must have been a awful long time to go without much of our crap.

The metrification process isn't near complete by any means, and both metric and Imperial units are in regular everyday usage. A key example are road signs, which show distances in miles and not kilometres – plans to convert these into kilometres were abandoned a few years back simply because of the huge cost and effort involved. Being able to 'readily change' wasn't quite possible it seems.

We still buy our beer and milk in pints, work out our fuel consumption in miles-per-gallon, buy our TVs based on how many inches wide their screens are, and routinely describe our heights in feet. We also continue to believe that if you give someone an inch, they'll take a mile.

At least you are making changes. In USA, there is barely any metric at all. Occasionally you see it listed on some food. But mostly, if you ask someone "how many kilometers...how many grams...etc." They would not have a clue how to convert unless you run into a student who happens to have a converter on their phone maybe. There is hasn't been any noticeable effort to change either. You can still buy many rulers with only inches.

djellison

Aug 31, 2008, 04:45 PM

Yes I am wrong in that statement! I was meaning say between the US and UK in my hasty post.

The US had more more industry that the UK post WW2. What a revelation!!!! Errr...no. Of course it did - it's 6 times the size and hadn't been bombed. However, the UK still had a significant industrial capacity post WWII. You claims that the place was flattened are wrong. Infact just about everything you've said is wrong. I don't know where you learn your history - Hollywood it seems.

scotthayes

Aug 31, 2008, 04:51 PM

The US had more more industry that the UK post WW2. What a revelation!!!! Errr...no. Of course it did - it's 6 times the size and hadn't been bombed. However, the UK still had a significant industrial capacity post WWII. You claims that the place was flattened are wrong. Infact just about everything you've said is wrong. I don't know where you learn your history - Hollywood it seems.

Not sure why we are bothering to answer him. He has no idea what he is talking about. Maybe it's time to leave him to his hollywood history.

CalBoy

Aug 31, 2008, 04:54 PM

You're right!

And they have good food...

You know it. I can't go more than 4 days without some Mexican goodness. :D
I suppose you are doubting the idea that America would have used the bomb in all those places if Japan wasn't the only one left who did not surrender?

Uhhh...how old are you? Where have you learned your history from?

If Roosevelt hadn't died, it's very likely that the Bomb would have never been used. Aside from the trigger-happy MacArthur (who wanted to use the Bomb again in Korea, but was rebuffed by the Administration), there was a great deal of apprehension over the use of such a powerful weapon.

Many people in the US, including Ford, GM and Prescott Bush were doing exactly that.
Don't forget Coke and IBM.

Sir, may I suggest that you learn your history from academia and not Hollywood hokum.

Seriously right? It's almost like a series of posts based on Hollywood fiction.

As a matter of fact, after WWII one can say that USA was prolly the ONLY industrialized nation.

Seriously, Crackerjack boxes aren't a good source of history. ;)

Canada, Australia, New Zealand, most of the UK (granted some parts were still damaged, but certainly not "unindustrialized"), and many other Allied nations were doing perfectly fine. Don't imagine that the US was the "last one standing."

skunk

Aug 31, 2008, 04:56 PM

Yes I am wrong in that statement! I was meaning say between the US and UK in my hasty post. Sorry! :eek:Clueless, utterly clueless. In 1951, Britain was the WORLD'S LEADING CAR EXPORTER, with 44% of the world export market for cars and 30% of the market for trucks. Do some bloody homework.
http://books.google.com/books?id=fExyJvqwRBEC&pg=PA141&lpg=PA141&dq=1950+uk+car+production&source=web&ots=TWUpTIdmHK&sig=UHTIN-vdJ62CRmEv88u9_H-cYr8&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result

rasmasyean

Aug 31, 2008, 04:59 PM

The US had more more industry that the UK post WW2. What a revelation!!!! Errr...no. Of course it did - it's 6 times the size and hadn't been bombed. However, the UK still had a significant industrial capacity post WWII. You claims that the place was flattened are wrong. Infact just about everything you've said is wrong. I don't know where you learn your history - Hollywood it seems.

Ha, like I said, I constantly cite my claims. And you constantly play with my words to make an argument without substantiating yours. Perhaps you're just speaking from ego? I try to look at the facts. I'm not perfect as no one is, but at least I try to look at the facts instead of what I "wish to believe".

skunk

Aug 31, 2008, 05:01 PM

Ha, like I said, I constantly cite my claims. And you constantly play with my words to make an argument without substantiating yours. Perhaps you're just speaking from ego? I try to look at the facts. I'm not perfect as no one is, but at least I try to look at the facts instead of what I "wish to believe".Please refer to my post above and stop talking crap.

rasmasyean

Aug 31, 2008, 05:04 PM

Clueless, utterly clueless. In 1951, Britain was the WORLD'S LEADING CAR EXPORTER, with 44% of the world export market for cars and 30% of the market for trucks. Do some bloody homework.
http://books.google.com/books?id=fExyJvqwRBEC&pg=PA141&lpg=PA141&dq=1950+uk+car+production&source=web&ots=TWUpTIdmHK&sig=UHTIN-vdJ62CRmEv88u9_H-cYr8&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result

Uh...WWII officially ended in 1945...

For the record "flattened" was just a figure of speech! No one would say that England was literally reduced to an island of sand! :p

skunk

Aug 31, 2008, 05:08 PM

Uh...WWII officially ended in 1945...

For the record "flattened" was just a figure of speech! No one would say that England was literally reduced to an island of sand!Please stop embarrassing yourself.

djellison

Aug 31, 2008, 05:12 PM

at least I try to look at the facts instead of what I "wish to believe".

Oh boy. Epic epic epic fail.

Jaffa Cake

Aug 31, 2008, 05:13 PM

For the record "flattened" was just a figure of speech! No one would say that England was literally reduced to an island of sand! :pIndeed. No one would be silly enough to suggest the country was essentially flattened, levelled, nearly annihilated or pretty much destroyed!

...Your old country was leveled by the Germans and the USA had to save your necks and rebuild your house!!

Ah...but it is your lack of complex understanding of War and Conquest that has been lost in your own near annihilation. In the rubble, you would have re-emerged from scratch assimilated into the Nazi collective...

And don't forget, as mentioned that the English was pretty much destroyed along with their original system to start from scratch.Ah. :o

skunk

Aug 31, 2008, 05:18 PM

Where exactly did you learn your history, rasmasyean?

Queso

Aug 31, 2008, 05:22 PM

**reads thread**

**shakes head**

**goes back to France**

skunk

Aug 31, 2008, 05:24 PM

**reads thread**

**shakes head**

**goes back to France**Splitter! It's all France's fault anyway. :mad:

TheAnswer

Aug 31, 2008, 05:30 PM

Where exactly did you learn your history, rasmasyean?

From his tone and the level of insight in his posts, I'd say Eton.

skunk

Aug 31, 2008, 05:37 PM

From his tone and the level of insight in his posts, I'd say Eton.I rather doubt it.

TheAnswer

Aug 31, 2008, 05:48 PM

I rather doubt it.

He's clearly an Eton (http://www.etonschool.com/index.html) man.

skunk

Aug 31, 2008, 05:51 PM

That's an insult to the good name of Montessori.

remmy

Aug 31, 2008, 06:30 PM

eton? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eton_College)

skunk

Aug 31, 2008, 06:44 PM

No, they teach it better there.

.Andy

Aug 31, 2008, 06:48 PM

eton? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eton_College)
Coincidentally I had Eton Mess (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eton_mess) for dinner last night. It was delicious.

skunk

Aug 31, 2008, 06:50 PM

I remember it well. :)

.Andy

Aug 31, 2008, 07:04 PM

I was completely unaware of its humble origins until this thread. It's now served in some fairly exclusive and top of the line cafes and restaurants around Sydney.

skunk

Aug 31, 2008, 07:10 PM

I was completely unaware of its humble origins until this thread. It's now served in some fairly exclusive and top of the line cafes and restaurants around Sydney.I miss drinking flat whites at Tamarama. Sydney has excellent coffee. :)

.Andy

Aug 31, 2008, 07:19 PM

I miss flat whites. Sydney has excellent coffee. :)
Yes it does :). I just returned from a walk to see my wife off to work and get a flat white at the local cafe. I never appreciated the coffee here until I began exploring the world. Although I wish we had a better supply of cornish pasties :(.

Edit: Tamarama is gorgeous. I used to live over that way until I got married. Small world.

skunk

Aug 31, 2008, 07:25 PM

Tamarama is gorgeous. I used to live over that way until I got married. Small world.Indeed. The mayor of Waverley is my wife's sister-in-law... :D

BoyBach

Aug 31, 2008, 09:52 PM

And don't forget, as mentioned that the English was pretty much destroyed along with their original system to start from scratch.

Uh...WWII officially ended in 1945...

For the record "flattened" was just a figure of speech! No one would say that England was literally reduced to an island of sand! :p

I've had enough of this rubbish and, against my better judgement, I'll bite one more time!

This concerns Wales, not "England", but it's still relevant. The steelworks that used to be located about three miles from where I now sit was one of the worlds largest producers of steel during World War II, and despite the Luftwaffe's best efforts was the only steelworks they failed to destroy. (Pointless aside: the steel and iron manufactured there built the Sydney Harbour Bridge.)

Your old country was leveled by the Germans and the USA had to save your necks and rebuild your house!!

It's a local legend - I've no idea if it's true or not - that the foundation bricks of the Empire State Building were manufactured locally at Beaufort. If true that means that we built your house! :p

thechidz

Aug 31, 2008, 10:29 PM

as has always been this case, this thread is all about little brother fighting with big brother... what does it matter? We were both on the same side and united against a common, powerful enemy...

rasmasyean

Sep 1, 2008, 01:38 AM

Whichever way you want to play with words and stupid “my next door factory” anecdotal “statistics”…that of course… totally represent the widespread occurrence of things :rolleyes:, the truth is that you can’t take some of the answers to the thread’s topic, “Americans: what have they ever done for us?” because of your total loath of “o that great big oppressive superpower over the ocean”. Add to that total denial that “the o so arrogant people in that *new nation* across the ocean” have made any such profound impacts on your sorry lives, who of course have “many millennia of wonderful imperialistic history to be proud of”. Not to mention that you weren’t even a zygote.

So it started out with “inventions” where many were named and you guys just had to turn this into a WWII discussion. FYI, if you want to talk about this topic in WWII, its no-brainer when it comes to the topic of the thread. Swallow just a “few” points below of the many more I’m not going to waste my time to dig up.

A total of $50.1 billion (equivalent to nearly $700 billion at 2007 prices) worth of supplies were shipped: $31.4 billion to Britain, $11.3 billion to the Soviet Union, $3.2 billion to France and $1.6 billion to China.

In 1943-44, about a fourth of all British munitions came through Lend-Lease. Aircraft (in particular transport aircraft) comprised about one-fourth of the shipments to Britain, followed by food, land vehicles and ships

trucks, jeeps, landing craft and, above all, the Douglas C-47 transport aircraft

USSR - 1,981 US locomotives (to complement their whopping 92)
two-thirds of the truck strength of the Red Army was U.S.-built
Soviet air force was enhanced by 18,700 aircraft
US supplies of telephone cable, aluminium, canned rations and fur boots were also critical, the latter providing a crucial advantage in the winter defence of Moscow.

Oh this one is best of all for you loud sour brits…
Lend-lease items retained were sold to Britain at the knockdown price of about 10 cents on the dollar giving an initial value of £1,075 million. Payment was to be stretched out over 50 years at 2% interest. [7] . The final payment of $83.3 million (£42.5 million) due on 31 December 2006 (repayment having been deferred on several occasions) was made on 29 December 2006, it being the last working day of the year. After this final payment Britain's Economic Secretary, Ed Balls, formally thanked the US for its wartime support.

For a science experiment, you guys go and try to buy a house at 90% discount with a 50-year mortgage and demand a fixed rate of 2%. Oh, and don’t forget to ask for an extension. :cool:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease

rasmasyean

Sep 1, 2008, 02:00 AM

as has always been this case, this thread is all about little brother fighting with big brother... what does it matter? We were both on the same side and united against a common, powerful enemy...

Yeah, heh. Maybe USA should have waited on the A-bomb to enter Europe. Less Americans would have been wasted and by that time Nazi's would have been rallying in UK and several A-bombs would have been set off there to prevent any potential NYC raid or whatever and then England would be literally "flattened"! :D

iBlue

Sep 1, 2008, 02:19 AM

Cool. I was feeling a bit homesick but this thread stopped that dead in its tracks.

rasmasyean, it's people like you that make me embarrassed to say I am an american while living in the UK. Also makes me glad I don't have to listen to this sort of crap so much anymore... this thread is about my fill limit.

<kisses british soil>

rasmasyean

Sep 1, 2008, 05:01 AM

Where exactly did you learn your history, rasmasyean?

Google University (http://www.google.com/)

This stuff ain't rocket science dude. All you have to do is know how to read.
Why would anyone have to formally "learn" history to understand simple stuff like this? Or did you not know that all this info can be found like this? :eek:

Maybe it is YOU who has some "biased version" of history that you "remember"...assuming you paid attention in grade school. :p

skunk

Sep 1, 2008, 05:03 AM

A total of $50.1 billion (equivalent to nearly $700 billion at 2007 prices) worth of supplies were shipped: $31.4 billion to BritainYou do realise that these funds were made available largely in the form of US-made goods sold at a profit by US corporations, don't you? You seem to think it was charity. In addition, there was a quid pro quo, which was the provision of 23 naval bases in and around the British Caribbean, Bermuda and Newfoundland. Would you care to put a value on that, at today's prices?

USSR - 1,981 US locomotives (to complement their whopping 92)
two-thirds of the truck strength of the Red Army was U.S.-built
Soviet air force was enhanced by 18,700 aircraft
US supplies of telephone cable, aluminium, canned rations and fur boots were also critical, the latter providing a crucial advantage in the winter defence of Moscow.I'm so glad you moved your ignorant focus to the USSR:
American Aid to the Soviets...and to the Nazis

After the war, it would become customary in the West to claim that the unexpected Soviet success against Nazi Germany had been made possible because of massive American assistance, provided under the terms of a Lend-Lease agreement between Washington and Moscow, and that without this aid the Soviet Union would not have survived the Nazi attack. This claim is doubtful. First, American material assistance did not become meaningful before 1942, that is, long after the Soviets had single-handedly put an end to the progress made by the Wehrmacht and had launched their first counteroffensive. Second, American aid never represented more than four to five per cent of total Soviet wartime production, although it must be admitted that even such a slim margin may possibly prove crucial in a crisis situation. Third, the Soviets themselves cranked out all of the light and heavy high-quality weapons — such as the T-34 tank, probably the best tank of World War II — that made their success against the Wehrmacht possible. 34 Finally, the much-publicized Lend-Lease aid to the USSR was to a large extent neutralized — and arguably dwarfed — by the unofficial, discreet, but very important assistance provided by American corporate sources to the German enemies of the Soviets. In 1940 and 1941 American oil trusts increased the lucrative oil exports to Germany; large amounts delivered to Nazi Germany via neutral states. The American share of Germany's imports of vitally important oil for engine lubrication (Motorenöl) increased rapidly, from 44 per cent in July 1941 to 94 per cent in September 1941. Without US-supplied fuel, the German attack on the Soviet Union would not have been possible, according to the German historian Tobias Jersak, an authority in the field of American "fuel for the Führer." 35
http://www.historycooperative.org/journals/llt/51/pauwels.html

Oh this one is best of all for you loud sour brits…
Lend-lease items retained were sold to Britain at the knockdown price of about 10 cents on the dollar giving an initial value of £1,075 million. Payment was to be stretched out over 50 years at 2% interest. [7] . The final payment of $83.3 million (£42.5 million) due on 31 December 2006 (repayment having been deferred on several occasions) was made on 29 December 2006, it being the last working day of the year. After this final payment Britain's Economic Secretary, Ed Balls, formally thanked the US for its wartime support.
Is this news to you? It is not to me. Ed Balls clearly has a lot more class than you do.

rasmasyean

Sep 1, 2008, 05:22 AM

You do realise that these funds were made available largely in the form of US-made goods sold at a profit by US corporations, don't you? You seem to think it was charity. In addition, there was a quid pro quo, which was the provision of 23 naval bases in and around the British Caribbean, Bermuda and Newfoundland. Would you care to put a value on that, at today's prices?

I'm so glad you moved your ignorant focus to the USSR:

http://www.historycooperative.org/journals/llt/51/pauwels.html

Is this news to you? It is not to me. Ed Balls clearly has a lot more class than you do.

I never said it was completely charity. As a matter of fact I said it was "National Interest" further up. But neither are most "inventions" but we still benefit from it. Is paying a few pounds worth being able to defend your life?

And you can't use that article written by one aspiring historian who is writing essays with some "personal interpretation" of events from his own research to try to gain fame. If his analysis is accepted in general, then perhaps it will go into accepted documentation maybe in the future, but until then, it's just as good as a column.

skunk

Sep 1, 2008, 05:28 AM

I never said it was completely charity. As a matter of fact I said it was "National Interest" further up. But neither are most "inventions" but we still benefit from it. Is paying a few pounds worth being able to defend your life?

And you can't use that article written by one aspiring historian who is writing essays with some "personal interpretation" of events from his own research to try to gain fame. If his analysis is accepted in general, then perhaps it will go into accepted documentation maybe in the future, but until then, it's just as good as a column.To sum up, then, after all your ignorant bluster and nationalistic bombast, you do not actually have a point at all, do you? You have just made yourself look like a fool and done a great disservice to perceptions of your country.

If you think you can learn history from google.com, you are sadly mistaken.

BoyBach

Sep 1, 2008, 06:33 AM

Google University

History is about much more than being able read. I can't remember coming across somebody who is so proud in their ignorance.

Queso

Sep 1, 2008, 06:46 AM

It does make me laugh how all these American invention lists have Coca-Cola included, as if a well-marketed acidic sugar drink that actually leaves you thirstier after consuming it is something worthy :D

Anyway, this thread is nonsense. Nation states are an outdated notion ;)

edesignuk

Sep 1, 2008, 06:47 AM

This thread must win some sort of prize...

BoyBach

Sep 1, 2008, 06:50 AM

Nation states are an outdated notion ;)

That's terr'rist talk, that is. :eek:

Abstract

Sep 1, 2008, 06:58 AM

I read the first page (since I did post in it ages ago), and I read the last page. I'm very afraid to read what rasmasyean had to say in all those pages in between. :confused:

skunk

Sep 1, 2008, 07:39 AM

I should never have got involved, I know...

dogtanian

Sep 1, 2008, 07:45 AM

I read the first page (since I did post in it ages ago), and I read the last page. I'm very afraid to read what rasmasyean had to say in all those pages in between. :confused:

No, you must! Encapsulated in those pages is some of the finest and most hilarious posts on this site.

Kudos to all those who participated in rasmasyean's original thread... all except rasmasyean. (No offence)

BoyBach

Sep 1, 2008, 07:52 AM

I should never have got involved, I know...

I feel similarly. But if nobody corrects mistakes - no matter how fruitless the task - the alternative is that a repeated lie can oft become fact.

és:

Sep 1, 2008, 07:56 AM

I read the first page (since I did post in it ages ago), and I read the last page. I'm very afraid to read what rasmasyean had to say in all those pages in between. :confused:

I'm in the same boat. I've only briefly looked at this thread and now there seems to be some kind of all out assault on rasmasyean. I think I'm going to have a looksy through the thread.

TBi

Sep 1, 2008, 08:03 AM

I should never have got involved, I know...

Do what i do in this case, send a message to the OP and say something like:

"You were right and i was wrong. How could i have ever been so stupid?"

Maybe follow with:

"I bow to your markedly superior intellect and your overwhelming knowledge of history. I must now excuse myself from this thread and just marvel at your wondrous and boundless knowledge."

The OP will be naturally impressed by your honest admit of failure... anyone who has a brain will know you are being completely facetious and sarcastic! :)

All jokes aside this has been one of the most interesting threads i've read here in a long time. On one side you have baseless stupid arguments of the OP and on the other side you have well thought out, well researched rebuttles from yourself and other members of the macrumors team. :)

I feel similarly. But if nobody corrects mistakes - no matter how fruitless the task - the alternative is that a repeated lie can oft become fact.

You are right but people still hate you for it.

és:

Sep 1, 2008, 08:26 AM

Well, that was a good read. It's always really funny to read an out of touch American getting all indignant about wars.

I'm very great for the help from the American and the lives their brave soldiers gave in the struggle against fascism. It was far too late and it was for their own benefit really, but I'm still grateful.

However, when you hear lines like 'it is your lack of complex understanding of War and Conquest that has been lost in your own near annihilation' that you just have to stand back and laugh at the irony.

Abstract

Sep 1, 2008, 10:57 AM

I should never have got involved, I know...

It was easy to guess you were involved from the post at the top of this page. ;)

I feel similarly. But if nobody corrects mistakes - no matter how fruitless the task - the alternative is that a repeated lie can oft become fact.

That may be true, but I don't think that's what happened here, and I'm only going by what has been said on this page so far.

Sometimes, no matter how pointless it is, it's really tempting to try and correct someone when their claims are so outlandish, and yet they're so sure of themselves that they insist on telling you how wrong you are. It's particularly true when the topic, or whatever it diverges to, is something you have a genuine interest in. Clearly I've fallen for that several times over the years, so of course I'd understand this trap.