Boo hoo: Cindy McCain offended by Obama

[Ntombi]

link (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/08/cindy-mccain-te.html)


Story:Cindy McCain tells Stephanopoulos that Obama Offended Her

August 30, 2008 2:07 PM

ABC News' George Stephanopoulos reports: Democrats' attacks on her family's wealth are unfair and offensive, Cindy McCain said today in an interview airing tomorrow on "This Week with George Stephanopoulos."

For nearly two weeks, Democrats have repeatedly hit Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., for saying he is unaware of how many houses he owns, calling the presumptive Republican presidential nominee out of touch with everyday Americans. In his acceptance speech at the Democratic convention on Thursday, Democratic nominee Barack Obama turned up the heat on McCain, saying he "doesn't know" about the lives of middle-class Americans.

"I'm offended by Barack Obama saying that about my husband," said McCain's wife Cindy.

When asked if Obama went too far in his criticism of McCain, Cindy responded, "I do. I do. I really do."

McCain also said beer the distributorship her father built, which is the source of much her family's wealth, typifies the American Dream.

"My father had nothing. He and my mother sold everything they had to raise $10,000," she said. "I'm proud of what my dad and my mother did and what they built and left me. And I intend to carry their legacy as long as I can."

More of the exclusive interview with Cindy McCain airs tomorrow on "This Week."

UPDATE: The Obama campaign is not backing down. "The fact that John McCain does not know how many houses he owns when millions are struggling to stay in the only house they have shows he's out of touch with the lives of real Americans," said Obama spokeswoman Linda Douglass Saturday afternoon. "McCain is promising to double down on the economic policies of George W. Bush which have benefited corporations and CEO's while leaving middle-class families behind. John McCain just doesn't get it."
Douglass later added that "the issue here isn't the wealth of the McCain family, it's that Senator McCain is out of touch when he says that the fundamentals of our economy are strong' and that the Bush economy has ‘made great progress' when most Americans are actually losing ground."
Obama was exactly right: it's not about the wealth, it's about the fact that he's completely out of touch.

Anyone who thinks that one has to make at least $5mm to get out of the middle class doesn't get it.

Anyone who can't remember how many homes (not investment properties) he has doesn't get it.

There are many very wealthy people who do get it. McCain happens not to be one.

[mactastic]

Oh cry me a river. Your husband says Obama is a traitor to his nation, and you want to complain about being attacked over your wealth? Too funny.

Here's some $550/lb cheese to go with that whine...

[nanofrog]

Oh cry me a river. Your husband says Obama is a traitor to his nation, and you want to complain about being attacked over your wealth? Too funny.

Here's some $550/lb cheese to go with that whine...
Well said. :D

[és:]

Give them a break. McCain only has $40.4m. It's a wonder he can afford to eat.

[stubeeef]

while I don't have any problem with the rethoric either way, lets be accurate. McCains wealth is not his it is Cindy's, they do have a prenup.

[leekohler]

they do have a prenup.

Heehee! :) That just made me giggle for some reason. :D

[Ntombi]

while I don't have any problem with the rethoric either way, lets be accurate. McCains wealth is not his it is Cindy's, they do have a prenup.
Which makes it worse, IMO. He didn't grow up this wealthy, he spent the first 40+ years of his life in the upper middle class, yet he's become this oblivious to the lives of 99% of Americans because of money he has nothing to do with.

[és:]

while I don't have any problem with the rethoric either way, lets be accurate. McCains wealth is not his it is Cindy's, they do have a prenup.

It makes this even more pathetic.

It should be noted that Obama's wealth is $1.3m. That's about 550k for us Brits. Not an obscene amount compared to a lot of people that work in the city or are medium sized business owners.

He's by no means poor, but he's not got money to burn like McCain.

[Ntombi]

It makes this even more pathetic.

It should be noted that Obama's wealth is $1.3m. That's about 550k for us Brits. Not an obscene amount compared to a lot of people that work in the city or are medium sized business owners.

He's by no means poor, but he's not got money to burn like McCain.
And most of that came from book sales.

And let's not forget Biden's vast personal wealth of $150k, including the equity in his home.

Again, I don't care about someone's personal wealth, that's not the point at all, and I don't begrudge them anything; it's the way McCain's allowed that to wealth insulate him from the struggles of most Americans, and then turn around and call Barack Obama elitist. :rolleyes: Give me a break.

[zioxide]

I guess she can go back to cry while flying home on her private jet.

[leekohler]

Again, I don't care about someone's personal wealth, that's not the point at all, and I don't begrudge them anything; it's the way McCain's allowed that to wealth insulate him from the struggles of most Americans, and then turn around and call Barack Obama elitist. :rolleyes: Give me a break.

And also call Americans whiners.

[és:]

And most of that came from book sales.

And let's not forget Biden's vast personal wealth of $150k, including the equity in his home.

Again, I don't care about someone's personal wealth, that's not the point at all, and I don't begrudge them anything; it's the way McCain's allowed that to wealth insulate him from the struggles of most Americans, and then turn around and call Barack Obama elitist. :rolleyes: Give me a break.

That's absolutely right. Whilst I'm for tougher taxes on the rich, I don't begrudge people wealth. ****, I'd love to win the lottery on Friday and bag myself £92m. It wouldn't make me change my principles, though. It wouldn't make me any less working class.

If McCain can't remember how many houses he's got, then he's not going to understand the day to day problems that normal folk have.

[pseudobrit]

McCain also said beer the distributorship her father built, which is the source of much her family's wealth, typifies the American Dream.

And inheriting your wealth and title typifies the British dream the founders revolted against.

[Much Ado]

And inheriting your wealth and title typifies the British dream the founders revolted against.

Not really the British dream is it?

[aethelbert]

The fact that John McCain does not know how many houses he owns when millions are struggling to stay in the only house they have shows he's out of touch with the lives of real Americans
So am I out of touch with most of the world's starving population when I forget what I ate for breakfast? I fail to see how an old guy forgetting a number has anything to do with being president. Then again, all's fair in love and war; there's certainly no love on either side here, so...

[TheAnswer]

I fail to see how an old guy forgetting a number has anything to do with being president.

Well it's either a sign he's out of touch, a sign he's bad with numbers, or a sign he's developed memory problems. None of which is exactly what I look for in a President.

[és:]

So am I out of touch with most of the world's starving population when I forget what I ate for breakfast?

Unless you consider breakfast and expensive homes to be in the same league, then no.

With a record number of foreclosures/repossessions, don't you think it's slightly detached to hear him say that he doesn't remember how many houses he owns.

For many people, a house is the most expensive thing they will ever own. They normally only ever own one at a time, if they are lucky. To have that rammed in their face is akin to you complaining how you couldn't eat all your breakfast, to a group of staving Ethiopians.

I fail to see how an old guy forgetting a number has anything to do with being president.

It's not just a number. It's being so rich that you don't know how many houses you own.

I'm not sure about you, but I'd prefer the most powerful leader in the world to be able to account for the things he owns before he is let loose with an economy, nuclear stock piles and foreign policy.

People say that it's just '4 more years' of Bush. They are wrong, it'll be much worse.

[aethelbert]

Well it's either a sign he's out of touch, a sign he's bad with numbers, or a sign he's developed memory problems. None of which is exactly what I look for in a President.
Or... he just forgot a number. Everyone does it. Doesn't matter if it's a GPA, salary, price of gas, number of dog poop piles on your lawn, how many times you've flown first class, etc. I'd bet good money that I could ask Barrack similar questions and he'd come up blank on something, too. I wouldn't start attacking him for that, though.

Unless you consider breakfast and expensive homes to be in the same league, then no.
Same league? no. A necessity that we have better access to than many others? Definitely yes.

With a record number of foreclosures/repossessions, don't you think it's slightly detached to hear him say that he doesn't remember how many houses he owns?
No, not really. Not being able to recall something instantly on the spot, especially when you're as old as he is, has nothing to do with the economic situation.

It's not just a number. It's being so rich that you don't know how many houses you own.
Who cares how "rich" he is? It seems that in America, any person A who has $10 more than person B is considered to be rich. Let me ask you this: does he not know how many houses he owns, or did he simply fail to recall the number on the spot?

I'm not sure about you, but I'd prefer the most powerful leader in the world to be able to account for the things he owns before he is let loose with an economy, nuclear stock piles and foreign policy.
*rushes off to find someone that never forgets stuff, like the guy that memorized the NYC phonebook!*

People say that it's just '4 more years' of Bush. They are wrong, it'll be much worse.
Since you know what will happen in the future, will my US Airways stock go up or down when trading resumes on Tuesday?

Please note that I have no affiliation with either candidate. Personally, I think that they're both full of nonsense. Forgetting something that's nobody else's business --and has absolutely nothing to do with the task at hand-- shouldn't really matter to anyone. Everyone forgets stuff, who cares? The number of houses one owns (also the ability to remember that number) has nothing to do with what kind of leader that they'll be.

American politics is a game. Regardless of what either one of these bozos says, they're playing the game just like everyone always has. Make irrelevant attacks here and there. Promise everyone unrealistic things. Base actions based on what will let you win, not on what you yourself believe in. It's all garbage.

In conclusion, Tony Blair for President in 2009!

[stevento]

Well when Obama attacked over the 7 houses, it was really Cindy's houses. John McCain couldn't remember how many houses his wife owned (because the prenup separates their finances) so he didn't know how many they own together and that's what caused the gaffe.

But when Michelle Obama was attacked Obama whined and said "leave my wife out of this"
http://lonestartimes.com/2008/05/19/obama-leave-my-wife-out-of-this/

[Ntombi]

I love how you're using old age as an excuse, when his campaign is trying hard to get everyone to forget how old he is. :p

Well when Obama attacked over the 7 houses, it was really Cindy's houses. John McCain couldn't remember how many houses his wife owned (because the prenup separates their finances) so he didn't know how many they own together and that's what caused the gaffe.

But when Michelle Obama was attacked Obama whined and said "leave my wife out of this"
http://lonestartimes.com/2008/05/19/obama-leave-my-wife-out-of-this/

Yeah, that's exactly the same. :rolleyes: Do you give yourself whiplash? Cause I know you're confusing the hell out of me. Try to stick with the same position for two days in a row, k?

[r.j.s]

Well when Obama attacked over the 7 houses, it was really Cindy's houses. John McCain couldn't remember how many houses his wife owned (because the prenup separates their finances) so he didn't know how many they own together and that's what caused the gaffe.

But when Michelle Obama was attacked Obama whined and said "leave my wife out of this"
http://lonestartimes.com/2008/05/19/obama-leave-my-wife-out-of-this/

Exactly. They aren't even his houses. If my wife had her own thing going involving real estate, and that didn't really interest me, I wouldn't keep track of how many houses she owned either.

[stubeeef]

Well it's either a sign he's out of touch, a sign he's bad with numbers, or a sign he's developed memory problems. None of which is exactly what I look for in a President.

Now apply that to the "all 57 states" remark please.:rolleyes:

I want to know, is it more important for a president to know how many states there are or how many houses he wife has.
I know which I would pick.

[r.j.s]

Now apply that to the "all 57 states" remark please.:rolleyes:

I want to know, is it more important for a president to know how many states there are or how many houses he wife has.
I know which I would pick.

Did he ever explain that?

[stubeeef]

Did he ever explain that?

What possible explanation could there be? Stupidity maybe?

Yes, 57 states with one left to go! MORON ALERT (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpGH02DtIws)

[aethelbert]

LOL
Can't argue with a 400% increase in the two months since I bought them. :)

[r.j.s]

What possible explanation could there be? Stupidity maybe?

Just wondering ...

[stubeeef]

Just wondering ...

yes, aren't we all.:p

Yes, 57 states with one left to go! MORON ALERT (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpGH02DtIws)

[NT1440]

Well when Obama attacked over the 7 houses, it was really Cindy's houses. John McCain couldn't remember how many houses his wife owned (because the prenup separates their finances) so he didn't know how many they own together and that's what caused the gaffe.

But when Michelle Obama was attacked Obama whined and said "leave my wife out of this"
http://lonestartimes.com/2008/05/19/obama-leave-my-wife-out-of-this/

The attack on Michelle was direct, the housing question wasnt aimed at cindy. failure

[NT1440]

Did he ever explain that?

i remember hearing it was a slip of the tounge when he was referring to the states AND territories (such as puerto rico) and he said states by accident. Yes it was a slip up.

[r.j.s]

i remember hearing it was a slip of the tounge when he was referring to the states AND territories (such as puerto rico) and he said states by accident. Yes it was a slip up.

Just watched the clip, been to 57 states, one left to go, but that doesn't count Alaska or Hawaii ... and he paused to think about it. Seems like more than a slip up to me.

[pseudobrit]

Can't argue with a 400% increase in the two months since I bought them. :)

Take profits now.

[TheAnswer]

Now apply that to the "all 57 states" remark please.:rolleyes:

Clearly he was counting each of the seven McCain estates he visited as a separate state. :p

[stubeeef]

i remember hearing it was a slip of the tounge when he was referring to the states AND territories (such as puerto rico) and he said states by accident. Yes it was a slip up.

ya a "slipup", probably just ranout of fingers to count on, I want mr brilliant harvard man.

Now how does one slip up and get 57 states with 2 to go out of these territories (as you stated that was the issue).
Find away to make 57 out of these territories

Unincorporated Organized Territories
Guam (I used to live there)
Northern Mariana Islands (north of Guam)
Puerto Rico
US Virgin Islands

Unincorporated Organized Territories
American Samoa
Baker Island uninhabited
Howland Island uninhabited
Jarvis Island uninhabited
Johnston Atoll uninhabited
Kingman Reef uninhabited
Bajo Nuevo Bank uninhabited
Serranilla Bank uninhabited
Midway Island no indigenous population
Navassa Island uninhabited
Wake Atoll no indigenous population

link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territories_of_the_United_States)

5 have a population not just contractors. if he went to all five he would have gone to 53 with 2 left>Alaska and Hawaii making a grand total of 55. I guess the other two are planets in his head. And why the hell would he go to johnston atoll or midway and not hawaii or alaska unless of course he was wacked out of his mind. There is no excuse, wake up.

Ya he slipped up all right. It is called DUMBED up. you guys will buy anything he says.

[stubeeef]

Clearly he was counting each of the seven McCain estates he visited as a separate state. :p

Even worse.:p

[trebblekicked]

Obama was referring to the 57 contests held in the primary. It was, in fact a slip of the tongue.

Please reply to this so I know you read it.

[NT1440]

ya a "slipup", probably just ranout of fingers to count on, I want mr brilliant harvard man.

Now how does one slip up and get 57 states with 2 to go out of these territories (as you stated that was the issue).
Find away to make 57 out of these territories

Unincorporated Organized Territories
Guam (I used to live there)
Northern Mariana Islands (north of Guam)
Puerto Rico
US Virgin Islands

Unincorporated Organized Territories
American Samoa
Baker Island uninhabited
Howland Island uninhabited
Jarvis Island uninhabited
Johnston Atoll uninhabited
Kingman Reef uninhabited
Bajo Nuevo Bank uninhabited
Serranilla Bank uninhabited
Midway Island no indigenous population
Navassa Island uninhabited
Wake Atoll no indigenous population

link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territories_of_the_United_States)

5 have a population not just contractors. if he went to all five he would have gone to 53 with 2 left>Alaska and Hawaii making a grand total of 55. I guess the other two are planets in his head. And why the hell would he go to johnston atoll or midway and not hawaii or alaska unless of course he was wacked out of his mind. There is no excuse, wake up.

Ya he slipped up all right. It is called DUMBED up. you guys will buy anything he says.
dude, i was just passing on what i heard, u have a very bad habit on these boards of making everything seem person, intentional or not.

sure obama slipped up there and YES he did make a rather foolish mistake.

Pales in comparison to the mistakes of mccain , and by that i mean his policies.

he once was admirable, now hes just another man out for power

[sushi]

Exactly. They aren't even his houses. If my wife had her own thing going involving real estate, and that didn't really interest me, I wouldn't keep track of how many houses she owned either.
:)

I want to know, is it more important for a president to know how many states there are or how many houses he wife has.
I know which I would pick.
Likewise.

<snip>Ya he slipped up all right. It is called DUMBED up. you guys will buy anything he says.
Well said.

[trebblekicked]

Ya he slipped up all right. It is called DUMBED up. you guys will buy anything he says.

you actually believe the editor-in-chief of the harvard law review thought there were 57 states in america? give me a ********** break.

and for the record, if mccain just came out and said "ten" or "seven" or any number at all, it wouldn't have mattered. he got tripped up by the poltical ramifications of the answer and dodged a perfectly simple question. that's the problem.

[stubeeef]

Obama was referring to the 57 contests held in the primary. It was, in fact a slip of the tongue.

Please reply to this so I know you read it.

reply

link please.

my posts were in reply to the other excuse, so was the other excuse not an excuse, or was it an excuse that obviously didn't fly so they came up with another excuse?

[NT1440]

you actually believe the editor-in-chief of the harvard law review thought there were 57 states in america? give me a ********** break.

and for the record, if mccain just came out and said "ten" or "seven" or any number at all, it wouldn't have mattered. he got tripped up by the poltical ramifications of the answer and dodged a perfectly simple question. that's the problem.

exactly, to me it just shows he picking and choosing everything he does in order to get votes, rather than actually being in it to do good for the the country

[trebblekicked]

reply

thank you.

[TheAnswer]

Even worse.:p

In all seriousness, I would judge him as harsh as McCain if the "57 states" had been the answer to a question about how many states are in the U.S.A., but it wasn't. He also didn't say that he'd been to 57 different and distinct states, so technically he's allowed to count states more than once.

Personally, I always took the Obama remark as a bit of dry humor, that he's been hopping from state to state to the point that he can't remember the number anymore. Maybe McCain has been doing the same with his houses?

[stubeeef]

you actually believe the editor-in-chief of the harvard law review thought there were 57 states in america? give me a ********** break.

unable to read this mind, his words, could be president someday, his words. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpGH02DtIws)

[archesdevil]

Bottom line, mccain is accusing Obama of being an elitist.

[stubeeef]

You guys arguments prove that you will rationalize anything.

How does one rationalize the recent passage of bills by Obama and Pelosi and Reid that were once part of their hate rethoric. Comeon gang, what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

[archesdevil]

You guys arguments prove that you will rationalize anything.

How does one rationalize the recent passage of bills by Obama and Pelosi and Reid that were once part of their hate rethoric. Comeon gang, what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

What bills, I'll rationalize all of them.

[NT1440]

You guys arguments prove that you will rationalize anything.

How does one rationalize the recent passage of bills by Obama and Pelosi and Reid that were once part of their hate rethoric. Comeon gang, what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

ur doing the same thing but in support of Mccain, were gonna back out candidates

the only difference is obama is our only serious chance right now of our country being right again. call me unpatriotic all u want, i really dont care, in many respects i am ashamed of what this country has become. I am seriously hoping for change.

[trebblekicked]

reply

link please.

my posts were in reply to the other excuse, so was the other excuse not an excuse, or was it an excuse that obviously didn't fly so they came up with another excuse?

that was the "excuse" i remember hearing on NPR way back when it happened. i can't find a link, so i guess i must be wrong. he must have actually thought there were 57 states in America. :rolleyes:

any person of reasonable intelligence is capable of dismissing this as a verbal flub. it was never repeated, it never got legs in the first place. the only people that see fit to bring it up are those that want to bring obama down.

just answer this: do you actually think that barack obama believed that there were 57 states in america when he said that?

[stubeeef]

In all seriousness, I would judge him as harsh as McCain if the "57 states" had been the answer to a question about how many states are in the U.S.A., but it wasn't. He also didn't say that he'd been to 57 different and distinct states, so technically he's allowed to count states more than once.

Personally, I always took the Obama remark as a bit of dry humor, that he's been hopping from state to state to the point that he can't remember the number anymore. Maybe McCain has been doing the same with his houses?

HE said he had been in 57 states, not visited the states 57 times. I've now been in 57 states, I think one left to go, one left to go, alaska and hawaii I was not allowed to go to even though I really wanted to visit but my staff would not uggg justify it.

[TheAnswer]

what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

Attempt to give a gander an ovario-oviductectomy, then see if you can say that with a straight face.

[pdham]

I find it hard to beleive anyone actually believes Obama thinks there are 57 states...

If you consider a moment what he said, it seems pretty obvious he meant to say 47. "I have been to 57 (47) states with one to go. Haven't been allowed to go to Alaska and Hawaii." Thats 47 plus 3, which happens to be the number of states we have.

Clinging to this mistake seems preet desperate...

[Iscariot]

Sometimes I forget how old I am.

I can't believe how easily this contest is being washed over by ridiculous identity politics.

[stubeeef]

that was the "excuse" i remember hearing on NPR way back when it happened. i can't find a link, so i guess i must be wrong. he must have actually thought there were 57 states in America. :rolleyes:

any person of reasonable intelligence is capable of dismissing this as a verbal flub. it was never repeated, it never got legs in the first place. the only people that see fit to bring it up are those that want to bring obama down.

just answer this: do you actually think that barack obama believed that there were 57 states in america when he said that?

how many democratic contests were there? 60?

[archesdevil]

I find it hard to beleive anyone actually believes Obama thinks there are 57 states...

These are the same people who say Obama is a Muslim or an elitist. :rolleyes:

[trebblekicked]

You guys arguments prove that you will rationalize anything.

How does one rationalize the recent passage of bills by Obama and Pelosi and Reid that were once part of their hate rethoric. Comeon gang, what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

apples and oranges. and not just because of the D and the R.

and i'd like a shot at rationalizing those bills, too.

[stubeeef]

I find it hard to beleive anyone actually believes Obama thinks there are 57 states...

If you consider a moment what he said, it seems pretty obvious he meant to say 47. "I have been to 57 (47) states with one to go. Haven't been allowed to go to Alaska and Hawaii." Thats 47 plus 3, which happens to be the number of states we have.

Clinging to this mistake seems preet desperate...

3rd excuse, so why didn't they just say that?

We now have
Excuse 1
was including territories
Excuse 2
was counting all contests
Excuse 3
meant 47 not 57

Pick your favorite, seems that there is no excuse for McCain, but Obama gets 3. nice work gentleman.

[trebblekicked]

how many democratic contests were there? 60?

let's see...

50 states
+ puerto rico
+ american samoa
+ texas caucus
+ americans abroad
+ DC
+ guam
+ virgin islands

that's 57.

[archesdevil]

3rd excuse, so why didn't they just say that?

We now have
Excuse 1
was including territories
Excuse 2
was counting all contests
Excuse 3
meant 47 not 57

Pick your favorite, seems that there is no excuse for McCain, but Obama gets 3. nice work gentleman.

I will debate you on any topic. Obama vs mccain. Let's go.

[stubeeef]

I will debate you on any topic. Obama vs mccain. Let's go.

I believe Obama is younger than McCain.

[trebblekicked]

3rd excuse, so why didn't they just say that?

We now have
Excuse 1
was including territories
Excuse 2
was counting all contests
Excuse 3
meant 47 not 57

Pick your favorite, seems that there is no excuse for McCain, but Obama gets 3. nice work gentleman.

are you saying all mistakes are equal, or just these two are equal?

[archesdevil]

I believe Obama is younger than McCain.

Your right... Man, I underestimated you.

[stubeeef]

are you saying all mistakes are equal, or just these two are equal?

Are you using bias to rationalize one and attack the other?

[trebblekicked]

Are you using bias to rationalize one and attack the other?

there IS a substantive difference between the two gaffes. if you choose not to see this, we're going to keep going like this all night.

[stubeeef]

On topic,

I repeat my earlier statement that there is nothing for Cindy to be offended by, welcome to politics. One minute you are lauded* the next minute you are dogged**.

* before VP selection
Sen. Biden: "John McCain is a personal friend, a great friend, and I would be honored to run with or against John McCain, because I think the country would be better off -- be well off no matter who..." Stewart: "Did I hear, Did I hear with?" Sen. Biden: "You know, John McCain and I think" Stewart: "Don't become cottage cheese my friend. Say it." Sen. Biden: "The answer is yes." (Comedy Central's "The Daily Show" 8/2/05)

** after vp selection
Sen. Biden: "Should we trust John McCain's judgment when he says there can be no timelines to draw down our troops from Iraq – that we must stay indefinitely?" Biden asked. "Or should we listen to Barack Obama, who says shift responsibility to the Iraqis – and set a time to bring our combat troops home?

it is a wonderful world

[NT1440]

3rd excuse, so why didn't they just say that?

We now have
Excuse 1
was including territories
Excuse 2
was counting all contests
Excuse 3
meant 47 not 57

Pick your favorite, seems that there is no excuse for McCain, but Obama gets 3. nice work gentleman.

are these really the only things you have to use against obama? non issues??


i bet u were clapping along with the rest of fox news when that huge story broke of obama hating america (you remember, not haveing a flag pin = extremist muslim hating american)

can we get off these pathetic arguments?

when will there EVER be an election actually run on the issues?

[archesdevil]

mccant has changed his stance many times over the last year. He has folded faster than Kenny Rodger's chicken.

[stubeeef]

there IS a substantive difference between the two gaffes. if you choose not to see this, we're going to keep going like this all night.

I believe YOU believe there is a difference. To me and many others there is too. To me Obama's is a bigger gaff. You see McCain doesn't know if he is to count the ones in his name, his and cindy's, or just cindy's.
While obama loves to say "we are our brothers keeper" cindy actually keeps a house for and elderly relative. We all know about obama's half brother's hut.

[Ntombi]

On topic,

I repeat my earlier statement that there is nothing for Cindy to be offended by, welcome to politics. One minute you are lauded* the next minute you are dogged**.

* before VP selection


** after vp selection


it is a wonderful world
I challenge you to look at McCain's policy stances three years ago vs. today.

Guess what? He's moved closer and closer to Bush, to Bush's policies, and further away from the kinda sorta moderately maverick guy that he used to be. Even in that short span of time, he's reversed himself on immigration, on taxes, on TORTURE, on the environment, and on ethics reform.

Lovely.

[stubeeef]

are these really the only things you have to use against obama? non issues??
Of course not, we are talking 'gaffs', how McCan doesn't know how many houses he owns, didn't you read that part? This is not a thread on the entire platform of each candidate, don't be silly. That is like saying the only thing to use against McCan is the number of houses he does or doesn't have.

i bet u were clapping along with the rest of fox news when that huge story broke of obama hating america (you remember, not haveing a flag pin = extremist muslim hating american)

Of course, all McCan chest beaters knows he hates america, he is a citizen of the world.
can we get off these pathetic arguments?
I think it was an obama fan that mentioned the inability of McCan to say his number of houses, not a McCan fan that started this, just wanted him to use the same argument on one vs the other. Fairness docterine.

when will there EVER be an election actually run on the issues?
I think Hillary had that same sentement

Of course not, we are talking 'gaffs', how McCan doesn't know how many houses he owns, didn't you read that part? This is not a thread on the entire platform of each candidate, don't be silly.

[stubeeef]

I challenge you to look at McCain's policy stances three years ago vs. today.

Guess what? He's moved closer and closer to Bush, to Bush's policies, and further away from the kinda sorta moderately maverick guy that he used to be. Even in that short span of time, he's reversed himself on immigration, on taxes, on TORTURE, on the environment, and on ethics reform.

Lovely.

Like Obama on the telecoms and security ehh.

[aethelbert]

are these really the only things you have to use against obama? non issues??
That's all people seem to have against McCain. That's all people ever seem to have against anyone running for president.

when will there EVER be an election actually run on the issues?
That's gonna come right after Canada successfully invades the United States.

mccant has changed his stance many times over the last year. He has folded faster than Kenny Rodger's chicken.
And Obama has the same views as a year ago? FISA, anyone?

[NT1440]

Of course not, we are talking 'gaffs', how McCan doesn't know how many houses he owns, didn't you read that part? This is not a thread on the entire platform of each candidate, don't be silly. That is like saying the only thing to use against McCan is the number of houses he does or doesn't have.



Of course, all McCan chest beaters knows he hates america, he is a citizen of the world.

I think it was an obama fan that mentioned the inability of McCan to say his number of houses, not a McCan fan that started this, just wanted him to use the same argument on one vs the other. Fairness docterine.


I think Hillary had that same sentement

Of course not, we are talking 'gaffs', how McCan doesn't know how many houses he owns, didn't you read that part? This is not a thread on the entire platform of each candidate, don't be silly.
ok thats fair, weve just changed topics a few times i kind of lost my place. I figured this became purely another obama vs mccain thread. My apologies.

[NT1440]

That's all people seem to have against McCain. That's all people ever seem to have against anyone running for president.



actually, mccains policies is what i have against mccain.

[stubeeef]

ok thats fair, weve just changed topics a few times i kind of lost my place. I figured this became purely another obama vs mccain thread. My apologies.

no need to apologize, but that is nice, I can't hardly keep up the the 3 or 4 threads I'm getting pounded in!:p I guess like some can't keep up with their houses or states.

[trebblekicked]

I believe YOU believe there is a difference. To me and many others there is too. To me Obama's is a bigger gaff. You see McCain doesn't know if he is to count the ones in his name, his and cindy's, or just cindy's.
While obama loves to say "we are our brothers keeper" cindy actually keeps a house for and elderly relative. We all know about obama's half brother's hut.

and you talk about us rationalizing everything obama says?

you see, it's not that mccain didn't know how many properties he owns, or if he was supposed to count his or cindy's or just cindy's. he could have asked for clarification. he didn't.

the fact is, he didn't have access to the least politically damaging answer to this question. so he dodged it. when his campaign "got back" to the person who asked the question, they said four. newsweek said seven. others have said up to ten.

mccain dodged the question. obama misspoke. you don't honestly think obama's gaffe is worse than mccain's. and you never answered my question: do you think obama believes there are 57 states in america?

but yes, politics sucks. boo hoos all around.

[archesdevil]

Of course not, we are talking 'gaffs', how McCan doesn't know how many houses he owns, didn't you read that part? This is not a thread on the entire platform of each candidate, don't be silly. That is like saying the only thing to use against McCan is the number of houses he does or doesn't have.



Of course, all McCan chest beaters knows he hates america, he is a citizen of the world.

I think it was an obama fan that mentioned the inability of McCan to say his number of houses, not a McCan fan that started this, just wanted him to use the same argument on one vs the other. Fairness docterine.

He will use my idiosyncrasies but will not debate me.

I think Hillary had that same sentement

Of course not, we are talking 'gaffs', how McCan doesn't know how many houses he owns, didn't you read that part? This is not a thread on the entire platform of each candidate, don't be silly.

He will use my idiosyncrasies but not debate me.

[aethelbert]

actually, mccains policies is what i have against mccain.
Well, I can say the same against either one of them, but that's not how politics work anymore. It's a bunch of silly garbage and stunts to get votes. When the analysis of the general population doesn't go far beyond the fact that John McCain is old and Barrack Obama is black, I can't really say that people are normally knowledgeable of their planned policy.

[Ntombi]

Like Obama on the telecoms and security ehh.I'll give you that, because I was extremely disappointed and angry when he did that.

However, that wasn't my point. My point was that going back three years to point out that Biden was giving McCain the thumbs up isn't really applicable now, since McCain's stances have changed so drastically since then.

[NT1440]

Well, I can say the same against either one of them, but that's not how politics work anymore. It's a bunch of silly garbage and stunts to get votes.

it seems politics is the biggest soap opera around today sadly

[stubeeef]

and you talk about us rationalizing everything obama says?

you see, it's not that mccain didn't know how many properties he owns, or if he was supposed to count his or cindy's or just cindy's. he could have asked for clarification. he didn't.

the fact is, he didn't have access to the least politically damaging answer to this question. so he dodged it. when his campaign "got back" to the person who asked the question, they said four. newsweek said seven. others have said up to ten.

mccain dodged the question. obama misspoke. you don't honestly think obama's gaffe is worse than mccain's. and you never answered my question: do you think obama believes there are 57 states in america?

but yes, politics sucks. boo hoos all around.

He didn't dodge it, he didn't make up an answer. How is "I'll get back to you" a dodge? It is honest, he would rather be accurate on an answer that will get scrutiny. I find that smart, much smarter than "um-ing" and "uhhh-ing" the completely moronic 57.
You can argue why one is better, I expect on this board you will get the "of course obama's was understandable (3 excuses) but McCain's was bad" thing. It is what is expected in the MR poly forum after all. I disagree.

[archesdevil]

He didn't dodge it, he didn't make up an answer. How is "I'll get back to you" a dodge? It is honest, he would rather be accurate on an answer that will get scrutiny. I find that smart, much smarter than "um-ing" and "uhhh-ing" the completely moronic 57.
You can argue why one is better, I expect on this board you will get the "of course obama's was understandable (3 excuses) but McCain's was bad" thing. It is what is expected in the MR poly forum after all. I disagree.

Waiting my turn!:mad:

[NT1440]

He didn't dodge it, he didn't make up an answer. How is "I'll get back to you" a dodge? It is honest, he would rather be accurate on an answer that will get scrutiny. I find that smart, much smarter than "um-ing" and "uhhh-ing" the completely moronic 57.
You can argue why one is better, I expect on this board you will get the "of course obama's was understandable (3 excuses) but McCain's was bad" thing. It is what is expected in the MR poly forum after all. I disagree.

do u equate both gaffes equally at least?

[OutThere]

Or... he just forgot a number. Everyone does it. Doesn't matter if it's a GPA, salary, price of gas, number of dog poop piles on your lawn, how many times you've flown first class, etc. I'd bet good money that I could ask Barrack similar questions and he'd come up blank on something, too. I wouldn't start attacking him for that, though.


You're equating some generally irrelevant numbers with the number of houses someone owns. That's not a number that 'everyone' forgets. 'Everyone' forgets how many pairs of shoes they own or how many eggs they had for breakfast. Most people can remember quickly how many houses or cars they own—if they're not so wealthy and out of touch with the problems that Americans are facing today that the it doesn't matter to them how many houses they have. McCain clearly realized that he couldn't a) Count on his fingers b) Say "mmmm...." while counting in his head c) Outright state how many houses he owns, because all of those options look bad to the public.


The rest of this thread borders on absurdity. There are people out there who really believe that Obama thinks that there are 57 states? I give up. http://www.drien.com/macrumors/random/gonemad.gif

[stubeeef]

Waiting my turn!:mad:

Start a thread on a particular policy, please do so tomorrow cause it is getting late. I am trying a 1 on 7 in numerous threads and really want to stop and go to bed.

[mattniles007]

Cindy McCain is like a Marie Antoinette

[archesdevil]

Start a thread on a particular policy, please do so tomorrow cause it is getting late. I am trying a 1 on 7 in numerous threads and really want to stop and go to bed.

We can debate here. Economy, Terrorism, Iraq, Iran, Oil, Foreign Policy, Labor, Environment, Universal Healthcare, Taxes, you name it.

[aethelbert]

it seems politics is the biggest soap opera around today sadly
Yeppers. But boy does it make a good forum on macrumors to read on a cold sunday morning.

You're equating some generally irrelevant numbers with the number of houses someone owns. That's not a number that 'everyone' forgets. 'Everyone' forgets how many pairs of shoes they own or how many eggs they had for breakfast. Most people can remember quickly how many houses or cars they own—if they're not so wealthy and out of touch with the problems that Americans are facing today that the it doesn't matter to them how many houses they have. McCain clearly realized that he couldn't a) Count on his fingers b) Say "mmmm...." while counting in his head c) Outright state how many houses he owns, because all of those options look bad to the public.
How is the number of houses someone relevant to their ability to run a country? You can't seriously expect for there to be facts that are always instantly recalled by everyone, especially those that are far into the aging process.


The rest of this thread borders on absurdity. There are people out there who really believe that Obama thinks that there are 57 states? I give up.
Join the club. I gave up on/lost hope in American politics, uh..., a long time ago. Yet for some reason I still dropped by PRSI at 1:30am. hmm

We can debate here. Economy, Terrorism, Iraq, Iran, Oil, Foreign Policy, Labor, Environment, Universal Healthcare, Taxes, you name it.
Let's debate over Kevin Rudd.

[TheAnswer]

We can debate here. Economy, Terrorism, Iraq, Iran, Oil, Foreign Policy, Labor, Environment, Universal Healthcare, Taxes, you name it.

Actually, I'm gonna agree with Stubeeef. :eek::eek::eek: Probably better to start a different thread for the topic in question instead of pulling this one off on a tangent. Please post a link in this thread so we can all follow over to the spin-off thread if we wish to.
:)

[archesdevil]

Let's debate over Kevin Rudd.

Rudd of Australia?

[archesdevil]

Actually, I'm gonna agree with Stubeeef. :eek::eek::eek: Probably better to start a different thread for the topic in question instead of pulling this one off on a tangent. Please post a link in this thread so we can all follow over to the spin-off thread if we wish to.
:)

So, I have to start a thread for each issue?

[NT1440]

So, I have to start a thread for each issue?

that would make the thread alot more focused, so...yea

[aethelbert]

Rudd of Australia?
'course! Who else? He's the only politician that I know of that looks like the male figure from the Barbie doll lineup. What a most excellent debate topic, eh?

[archesdevil]

'course! Who else? He's the only politician that I know of that looks like the male figure from the Barbie doll lineup. What a most excellent debate topic, eh?

You want to debate the idea that he looks like Barbie or his policies?

[archesdevil]

that would make the thread alot more focused, so...yea

Thanks for your 2 cents. This thread got of topic along time ago and it wasn't my fault. I will however, debate Democratic views anytime, anyplace, anywhere.

[aethelbert]

You want to debate the idea that he looks like Barbie or his policies?
Frankly, I don't want to debate anything about him. You were just throwing out a bunch of random crap ideas to debate about, so I wanted to make sure that Kevin Rudd was still on your radar. I don't think that anyone is really looking to debate right now.

[archesdevil]

Frankly, I don't want to debate anything about him. You were just throwing out a bunch of random crap ideas to debate about, so I wanted to make sure that Kevin Rudd was still on your radar. I don't think that anyone is really looking to debate right now.

So, you have no platform?

[NT1440]

Thanks for your 2 cents. This thread got of topic along time ago and it wasn't my fault. I will however, debate Democratic views anytime, anyplace, anywhere.

oh my bad man if that sounded insulting in any way, i just meant personally if i wanted to debate on the candidates, say, economics policy id be much happier in the "candidate economics" thread than just a jumbled mess where several conversations of different policies is going on at once

my apologies if it sounded jackassish

[archesdevil]

You were just throwing out a bunch of random crap ideas to debate about

So the US stance on the Economy, Iran,Iraq, Foreign Policy, Taxes, Universal Healthcare is all crap?

[OutThere]

How is the number of houses someone relevant to their ability to run a country? You can't seriously expect for there to be facts that are always instantly recalled by everyone, especially those that are far into the aging process.

Not being able to remember now many of them he owns is a reflection of how unimportant they are to him, and at a time when thousands of Americans are losing or struggling to hang on to their homes, not caring how many houses you own is a reflection of how out of tune you are with the people in this country. It's perfectly all right to have as many houses as you want, but to be an effective leader of millions who have less than you, you should at least appreciate your privilege. McCain's social and cultural disconnect from Americans as a whole is clearly reflected in his plans to give all the real tax cuts to the wealthiest people in the country and ignore those who could really benefit from reduced taxes.

[aethelbert]

So the US stance on the Economy, Iran,Iraq, Foreign Policy, Taxes, Universal Healthcare is all crap?
In a thread with subject about John McCain's wife, yes. Then again, none of us are on topic; we're all talking about crap of some sort. Just not the type of crap that you suggested. Another thread would be good for those, though, if you wish to discuss them. Chances are, though, that they've been discussed/are being discussed elsewhere in PRSI.

Not being able to remember now many of them he owns is a reflection of how unimportant they are to him, and at a time when thousands of Americans are losing or struggling to hang on to their homes, not caring how many houses you own is a reflection of how out of tune you are with the people in this country. It's perfectly all right to have as many houses as you want, but to be an effective leader of millions who have less than you, you should at least appreciate your privilege. McCain's social and cultural disconnect from Americans as a whole is clearly reflected in his plans to give all the real tax cuts to the wealthiest people in the country and ignore those who could really benefit from reduced taxes.
I'm not interested in the politics of this; tax breaks for everyone, the "rich" are out to get me, etc. Forgetting something has nothing to do with this. They'd both make terrible presidents, in my opinion, but I don't see him as not being able to recall how many houses he has as evidence. Not recalling a number doesn't make you disconnected from anything. It just means that you couldn't recall a number. Through bolding the above, I'm trying to show that you're going off into his policy to prove your point instead of focusing on the fact that he didn't know how many houses they own.

Throughout my life, I've forgotten a lot of things: many of which are/were important to me. Not recalling information about those things on the spot at some random time didn't change their level of importance to me.

[archesdevil]

In a thread with subject about John McCain's wife, yes. Then again, none of us are on topic; we're all talking about crap of some sort. Just not the type of crap that you suggested. Another thread would be good for those, though, if you wish to discuss them. Chances are, though, that they've been discussed/are being discussed elsewhere in PRSI.

Hillary Clinton has championed Universal Health Care. Sadly, her ideas in the Democratic primaries were short. That being said, the idea of Universal Health Care is an idea the US needs to implement. What besides beer and unaccounted for homeownership has Cindy championed?

[NT1440]

Hillary Clinton has championed Universal Health Care. Sadly, her ideas in the Democratic primaries were short. That being said, the idea of Universal Health Care is an idea the US needs to implement. What besides beer and unaccounted for homeownership has Cindy championed?

this is a good point ive been waiting to bring up. From my understanding hillary has been wanting to mandate PRIVATIZED universal health care, which i really cant agree with. For me its free universal healthcare, or were still a backwards country. The purpose of a government (or the purpose should be) is to take care of its citizens and there wellbeing, thats where the "socialist" healthcare system i love comes in.

[OutThere]

I'm not interested in the politics of this; tax breaks for everyone, the "rich" are out to get me, etc. Forgetting something has nothing to do with this. They'd both make terrible presidents, in my opinion, but I don't see him as not being able to recall how many houses he has as evidence. Not recalling a number doesn't make you disconnected from anything. It just means that you couldn't recall a number. Through bolding the above, I'm trying to show that you're going off into his policy to prove your point instead of focusing on the fact that he didn't know how many houses they own.

I went off into his policy to prove my point in response to this, as I felt it was relevant.

How is the number of houses someone relevant to their ability to run a country?

As for the 'rich are out to get me' statement, trust me, that's not where I'm coming from at all. Really my family would probably be better off with McCain's policies. I just don't subscribe to trickle-down economics and I prefer to see what's best for the country.

[archesdevil]

In a thread with subject about John McCain's wife, yes. Then again, none of us are on topic; we're all talking about crap of some sort. Just not the type of crap that you suggested. Another thread would be good for those, though, if you wish to discuss them. Chances are, though, that they've been discussed/are being discussed elsewhere in PRSI.


I'm not interested in the politics of this; tax breaks for everyone, the "rich" are out to get me, etc. Forgetting something has nothing to do with this. They'd both make terrible presidents, in my opinion, but I don't see him as not being able to recall how many houses he has as evidence. Not recalling a number doesn't make you disconnected from anything. It just means that you couldn't recall a number. Through bolding the above, I'm trying to show that you're going off into his policy to prove your point instead of focusing on the fact that he didn't know how many houses they own.

Throughout my life, I've forgotten a lot of things: many of which are/were important to me. Not recalling information about those things on the spot at some random time didn't change their level of importance to me.

this is a good point ive been waiting to bring up. From my understanding hillary has been wanting to mandate PRIVATIZED universal health care, which i really cant agree with. For me its free universal healthcare, or were still a backwards country. The purpose of a government (or the purpose should be) is to take care of its citizens and there wellbeing, thats where the "socialist" healthcare system i love comes in.

You are right, and I agree. That is why I have backed Obama since day one. I was simply trying to show contrast. Even though I do not agree with Hillary, she has at least, created ideas. Universal Health Care is a fundamental belief of the Democratic party. However flawed her ideas were, she has always stood for them. My contrasting question was, what has Cindy stood for?

[NT1440]

You are right, and I agree. That is why I have backed Obama since day one. I was simply trying to show contrast. Even though I do not agree with Hillary, she has at least, created ideas. Universal Health Care is a fundamental belief of the Democratic party. However flawed her ideas were, she has always stood for them. My contrasting question was, what has Cindy stood for?

what i really dont understand is why people keep dragging the wives into this at all, they really dont serve a purpose in the white house other than PR, unless of course they TECHNICALLY abuse there position and start doing things.

what i mean by that is none of them are elected in or anything but many first wives have gone and done things in the country. Usually they are good, though its technically an abuse of there position

[archesdevil]

what i really dont understand is why people keep dragging the wives into this at all, they really dont serve a purpose in the white house other than PR, unless of course they TECHNICALLY abuse there position and start doing things.

what i mean by that is none of them are elected in or anything but many first wives have gone and done things in the country. Usually they are good, though its technically an abuse of there position

Agreed, Cindy whining today was simply a PR move. However, the Clinton White House is where Universal Health Care became relevant.

[NT1440]

Agreed, Cindy whining today was simply a PR move.

thats two times someones agreed with my posts, what is going on???:confused:

[archesdevil]

thats two times someones agreed with my posts, what is going on???:confused:

Agreed :confused:

[archesdevil]

BTW, Hillary was First Lady when she started to Champion Universal Health Care.

[NT1440]

BTW, Hillary was First Lady when she started to Champion Universal Health Care.

true true, sadly her "universal health care" is really "lets force everyone to pay for healthcare (at least she also wanted to lower the cost so its not all bad) instead of providing a needed service to our countrymen"

[r.j.s]

true true, sadly her "universal health care" is really "lets force everyone to pay for healthcare (at least she also wanted to lower the cost so its not all bad) instead of providing a needed service to our countrymen"

Someone has to pay for it ...

[archesdevil]

true true, sadly her "universal health care" is really "lets force everyone to pay for healthcare (at least she also wanted to lower the cost so its not all bad) instead of providing a needed service to our countrymen"

Let me make it clear! I am an Obama supporter and always have been. My point was that when Hilary was First Lady, she had a cause. It was Universal Health Care. In the 90's, it was not necessary. Now, I believe it is. I also believe Obama's plan is better. That being said, Universal Health Care is a fundamental belief of the Democratic Party that Hillary has always advocated.

My question was, what has Cindy advocated, stood for, or championed?

[stubeeef]

let's see...

50 states
+ puerto rico
+ american samoa
+ texas caucus
+ americans abroad
+ DC
+ guam
+ virgin islands

that's 57.

opppssss, he said he hadn't been to alaska or hawaii, so you need to start with 48, then use places he actually went to, did he actually go to Guam or the Virgin Islands???
PS
didn't visit Guam (http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5h1rPr5bKHkU84ReqbPE7LccM7azQ)
He did go to the Virgin Islands after the primary, not sure if before the 57 gaff. He did go to Puerto Rico, but not sure of the timing.

[stubeeef]

My question was, what has Cindy advocated, stood for, or championed?

Paalleeeezzzzeeee..

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2008/04/20/20080420firstlady.html

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/apr/16/nation/na-cindy16

She is lauded by right and left for her DECADES of charitable work, personally going and doing, not just a hollywood typical sending a check or sponsoring a cheese and Chihuahua social event.

[archesdevil]

Paalleeeezzzzeeee..

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2008/04/20/20080420firstlady.html

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/apr/16/nation/na-cindy16

She is lauded by right and left for her DECADES of charitable work, personally going and doing, not just a hollywood typical sending a check or sponsoring a cheese and Chihuahua social event.

Finally you respond to me.

I can tell by the first paragraph that, that is right-wing trash. If you have tons of money, it is easy to give a few bucks here and there. Look at Bill Gates. He has donated millions yet, still has billions.

I could take a week off work and go to Somalia for a photo-op.

[stubeeef]

Finally you respond to me.

I can tell by the first paragraph that, that is right-wing trash. If you have tons of money, it is easy to give a few bucks here and there. Look at Bill Gates. He has donated millions yet, still has billions.

I could take a month off work and got to Somalia for a photo-op.

Hillary was a complete failure at health care. while a noble cause, she is not the only one to have noble causes.
yes, the obvious 'rightwing trash" argument. you win.

This Cindy McCain harbors a ruggedness and fearlessness befitting her war-hero husband.

She has waded through minefields in Cambodia. Slept out in the bush in tents in Angola. Comforted children under the broiling sun in Morocco.

But the 53-year-old's extensive charity work has been largely overlooked.

Instead, the focus has tended to be on her privileged upbringing as the heiress of a successful Phoenix beer distribution business and her highly publicized addiction to painkillers in the early 1990s.

But friends and others who have traveled with her on mission trips say her commitment to humanitarian work is one of her most defining characteristics. They also expect that to become a major part of her work as first lady, should John McCain win in November.

"The thing that differentiates Cindy and why I think she will make an excellent first lady is that she has this true connection with the underserved," said Vonnie Wray, the development director at Operation Smile who has accompanied Cindy on missions to Morocco, India and Vietnam.

[archesdevil]

Hillary was a complete failure at health care. while a noble cause, she is not the only one to have noble causes.
yes, the obvious 'rightwing trash" argument. you win.

Please refer to my earlier posts.

[stubeeef]

My point was that when Hilary was First Lady, she had a cause. It was Universal Health Care. In the 90's, it was not necessary.

What are you 12 or 13? So the whole health care debate just became important? You don't think it was necessary in the 90's?!:eek:

Smokin strong argument.

[archesdevil]

What are you 12 or 13? So the whole health care debate just became important? You don't think it was necessary in the 90's?!:eek:

Smokin strong argument.

Not when the economy was booming and there were budget surpluses. Even people who were poor had money for health care.

[stubeeef]

Not when the economy was booming and there were budget surpluses. Even people who were poor had money for health care.

Someone else do this, too silly and very late, I couldn't sleep.
Should someone with this argument be allowed to vote?:cool:

[Aranince]

Steal from the hard working and give to the lazy. That is about the most ridiculous thing I've ever herd.

[archesdevil]

Someone else do this, too silly and very late, I couldn't sleep.
Should someone with this argument be allowed to vote?:cool:

Such as poor argument? The poverty line in the US is around 19,000.00 it was around 16 in the 90's. In the 90's, there were more jobs, and more higher paying jobs. Even though, Bush gave us tax rebate checks in early 2000's, our taxes were still lower under the Clinton Administration. Unemployment was lower and the US economy was stronger. You can look up everything I've listed. It is all true. As a result of this great economy, even people below the poverty line could afford basic necessities, including medical or health care.

[.Andy]

Steal from the hard working and give to the lazy. sigh.
There's still people that think wealth reflects how hard someone work? I guess people holding down two jobs will be on average twice as rich as those holding down a part time job.

[Aranince]

There's still people that think wealth reflects how hard someone work? I guess people holding down two jobs will be on average twice as rich as those holding down a part time job.

The odds of someone working two jobs vs a part time job making more money are pretty high if you ask me.

[archesdevil]

Steal from the hard working and give to the lazy. That is about the most ridiculous thing I've ever herd.

Do you know in socialized Sweden, they pay less taxes than we do in the US?

[.Andy]

The odds of someone working two jobs vs a part time job making more money are pretty high if you ask me.
It completely depends on what job they were doing, what kind of family they were born into, the wealth they inherited, where they were born etc etc.

What's hard work to you? Does a bricklayer that works from dawn till dusk doing hard labour work less hard than a florist that has their own successful business that runs itself and doesn't have to work at all?

[bobber205]

ya a "slipup", probably just ranout of fingers to count on, I want mr brilliant harvard man.

snip

Ya he slipped up all right. It is called DUMBED up. you guys will buy anything he says.

God forbid the man makes a math related mistake. xD

Stubeef, riddle me this:

1) How much do you make a year?
2) Where did you group up (as in part of country)?

[OutThere]

Steal from the hard working and give to the lazy. That is about the most ridiculous thing I've ever herd.

Ah yes, let's not take a little bit extra from the investment banker who makes millions while sitting in his hot tub sipping champagne so that the highway construction worker who gets paid $6.55/hour 80 hours a week doesn't have to decide which fingers he can afford to reattach after an accident. :rolleyes:

Yes I understand that there is work involved in investing, but my example still stands. Hard work != great wealth, no matter how many people want it to be so. Millions work incredibly hard every day to scrape by and support a family.

I don't think a coal miner in West Virginia would take kindly to your calling him 'lazy', or your suggestion that it's 'ridiculous' to pool money from the wealthiest Americans to help pay to treat his lung disease, for that matter...

[archesdevil]

Ah yes, let's not take a little bit extra from the investment banker who makes millions while sitting in his hot tub sipping champagne so that the highway construction worker who gets paid $6.55/hour 80 hours a week doesn't have to decide which fingers he can afford to reattach after an accident. :rolleyes:

Yes I understand that there is work involved in investing, but my example still stands. Hard work != great wealth, no matter how many people want it to be so. Millions work incredibly hard every day to scrape by and support a family.

I don't think a coal miner in West Virginia would take kindly to your calling him 'lazy', or your suggestion that it's 'ridiculous' to pool money from the wealthiest Americans to help pay to treat his lung disease, for that matter...

Damned Robin Hood Democrats.

[bobber205]

But what about ME??????
Wahhhhhhh!

:D

[leekohler]

Steal from the hard working and give to the lazy. That is about the most ridiculous thing I've ever herd.

First of all, learn how to spell. It's not "herd", it's "heard". Why do I constantly run across Republicans who can't spell? Oh, I know- because daddy made a contribution to Yale. :rolleyes:

I work my ********** ass off, but my employer decides that only people who make over $80,000 a year need a raise. I know this because a PO'd employee who left made the info public when he quit. The story we were told was that no one got raises except for the people who really needed an adjustment.

You need a serious reality check, right after you learn how to spell. :mad: Hard work doesn't equal more cash. It used to, but not anymore.

[archesdevil]

First of all, learn how to spell. It's not "herd", it's "heard". Why do I constantly run across Republicans who can't spell? Oh, I know- because daddy made a contribution to Yale. :rolleyes:

I work my ********** ass off, but my employer decides that only people who make over $80,000 a year need a raise. I know this because a PO'd employee who left made the info public when he quit. The story we were told was that no one got raises except for the people who really needed an adjustment.

You need a serious reality check, right after you learn how to spell. :mad: Hard work doesn't equal more cash. It used to, but not anymore.

Finally, lee and I agree.

Smoke 'em if you got 'em lee.

[és:]

Same league? no. A necessity that we have better access to than many others? Definitely yes.

How obscene. He owns homes that run into millions of dollars. You're being obtuse. A home, something that lasts for many years, something you have to have to spend a lot of time purchasing and have to spend a sizeable chunk of money on, isn't a 'necessity'. Your dull breakfast comparison makes a mockery of the significance and a mockery of your intellect. Assuming you have one, that is.


No, not really. Not being able to recall something instantly on the spot, especially when you're as old as he is, has nothing to do with the economic situation.

I didn't say it did, I said that the there is record numbers of people losing their homes. These people are the same people he's wanting to vote for him.

It shocks a distinct lack of connection and understanding of the situation that many Americans are battling through.


Who cares how "rich" he is?

Are you really this dull, or is it an act? It doesn't matter how rich he is, it matters that he's so detached from reality that he can't even remember a massive thing like how many houses he owns.

Let me ask you this: does he not know how many houses he owns, or did he simply fail to recall the number on the spot?

Firstly, I don't think it matters. Secondly, it's clearly the former because he said to ask his staff.

*rushes off to find someone that never forgets stuff, like the guy that memorized the NYC phonebook!*

Well, at least this answers my question. You're not putting it on. Never forgetting anything isn't the same as forgetting how many houses you have. He forgets what he says from one interview to the next. One minute he's an expert on the economy and the next minute he's a complete novice.

Since you know what will happen in the future, will my US Airways stock go up or down when trading resumes on Tuesday?

Further confirmation.

Personally, I think that they're both full of nonsense.

Then prove it.

Forgetting something that's nobody else's business --and has absolutely nothing to do with the task at hand-- shouldn't really matter to anyone. Everyone forgets stuff, who cares?

It's not 'stuff' though, is it. It's not a pair of socks or where you put your car keys. It's houses. You don't seem able to see the difference, but there are many that can.

It's go a huge amount to do with 'that task at hand'. It indicates two things. Firstly, he's too old and forgetful to remember important things, not something that endears me to a man that will have his finger on the button. Secondly, he has not understanding of real life for real people.

In conclusion, Tony Blair for President in 2009!

I'd consider voting McCain over Blair.

[és:]

Steal from the hard working and give to the lazy.

Or take from the super rich and give it to the single mom that's working two jobs just to feed her son and keep him clothed. The lazy bitch.

That is about the most ridiculous thing I've ever herd.

Don't be sheepish.

[blackfox]

wtf is this thread about?

I don't know whether to congratulate Stu for hanging in there, or to chide him for stirring the pot....

As to the original issue...I think the "how many houses" gaffe was nothing special, I think the "57 states" thing was nothing special. People (and candidates are people), make mistakes. Especially in long, grueling campaigns. My reason for supporting or disliking a candidate defy soundbites...

That said, I think Cindy's retort is just more ************ about something that shouldn't matter anyway. Why throw fuel on the fire?

Thanks for playing...

[Cleverboy]

reply

link please.

my posts were in reply to the other excuse, so was the other excuse not an excuse, or was it an excuse that obviously didn't fly so they came up with another excuse?A child knows America has 50 states, and Obama has clearly said so in speeches numerous times. I always thought... wow, slip of the tongue, he meant 47 states, but because he was doing quick math in his head (thinking "50 states" we were 3 away from all 50, so "7" of "10", equals 57... whoops!) It's an easy error to make while you're talking about something else. McCain on the other hand has made at least three MAJOR misspeaks on things that concern things MOST Americans would actually NOT KNOW he messed up... and he had to be told he messed up, and then went on to make the SAME mistakes again, during the briefing by Patreus. For anyone to say, "Hey, Obama... we know you taught consitutional law... but, clearly you didn't know the union had 50 states" is exceptionally DUMB of the person making the critique. For McCain, who graduated at the bottom of his class in college, to make goof-ups on foreign sects, who's funding terrorists, and what borders a foreign country... smack of GENUINE errors, and not slips of the tongue.

Disparate to paint Obama has incompetant, doesn't mean you get a free pass to do so. Find something REAL to talk about. Obama's speech in Denver was riddled with demonstrable distortions of the truth. Go talk about those. All this empty vapid whining wastes everyone's time.

Studbeef... you're clearly smarter than spending your time arguing how an obvious slip of the tongue indicates an educational deficit on the part of a candidate.

~ CB

[aethelbert]

I'd consider voting McCain over Blair.
McCain can't run for EU president, though.

[stubeeef]

Studbeef... you're clearly smarter than spending your time arguing how an obvious slip of the tongue indicates an educational deficit on the part of a candidate.

~ CB

Wow, I am stud now, don't tell my wife, she is not aware of that.

I am making a very simple point cb.
McCain never gaffed on this, never mis spoke, never mis led, never lied about it. He simply made a note to get back on that due to the complicated financial dealings between Cindy and himself. Then WHAM the whole contraversy over his 4 7 or 10 houses.
Obama, speaks of visiting 57 states with one to go, then goes on about not getting to alaska or hawaii because of his staff. He at minimum gaffs, he mis-speaks, mis leads the idiot fanboys that believe he did go to 57 states, or has he lied? (depends on what your defintion of "is" is I guess). He not only gets a pass, but in this thread alone, he get 3 excuses, heard on NPR, read somewhere, hypothesized. Three, 3, excuses. McCain doesn't gaff, he doesn't mis speak, he doesn't mis lead nor lie> you guys attack with full force. Well guess what, we (those not enamored with Obama) can make arguments too.

[mactastic]

while I don't have any problem with the rethoric either way, lets be accurate. McCains wealth is not his it is Cindy's, they do have a prenup.
And I'm sure you felt the same way about John Kerry?

Now apply that to the "all 57 states" remark please.:rolleyes:

I want to know, is it more important for a president to know how many states there are or how many houses he wife has.
I know which I would pick.
Is it more important for a president to know who we're fighting and what countries border Iraq, or how many states there are? BTW, Obama's gaffe was never repeated, McCain continued his gaffe about Sunni and Shia multiple times on multiple occasions.

You guys arguments prove that you will rationalize anything.

How does one rationalize the recent passage of bills by Obama and Pelosi and Reid that were once part of their hate rethoric. Comeon gang, what is good for the goose is good for the gander.
I thought we weren't supposed to change topics? Weren't you just chiding me for that, and now you're doing the same thing? Interesting...

He didn't dodge it, he didn't make up an answer. How is "I'll get back to you" a dodge? It is honest, he would rather be accurate on an answer that will get scrutiny. I find that smart, much smarter than "um-ing" and "uhhh-ing" the completely moronic 57.
You can argue why one is better, I expect on this board you will get the "of course obama's was understandable (3 excuses) but McCain's was bad" thing. It is what is expected in the MR poly forum after all. I disagree.
Come on, be honest. He didn't say I'LL get back to you, did he? Give us the actual quote.

[stevento]

The attack on Michelle was direct, the housing question wasnt aimed at cindy. failure
This is the general election, not playtime. You need to retire from politics if you dont want your family attacked
This goes to both Obama and McCain and their wives:
Harry Truman: "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen"

(http://www.hillaryclinton.com/video/169.aspx)

[Cleverboy]

This is the general election, not playtime. You need to retire from politics if you dont want your family attacked
This goes to both Obama and McCain and their wives:
Harry Truman: "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen"
(http://www.hillaryclinton.com/video/169.aspx)No, that's crap. Republicans have been casting even Democratic war heroes as unpatriotic. To go after their wives on personal, non-fact based, character assasination... is UNACCEPTABLE. Obama shouldn't say negative things about Cindy or "the McCains", but he can certainly imply that someone with 7 houses might not think about the housing problem in the same way... especially when it fits TIGHTLY with the negative comments of their economics advisor. That... is a pretty direct link.

When Laura Bush says that Michelle Obama clearly didn't mean she was never proud of America, its clear that the politics of distortion and character assassination are taking things MUCH too far.

Obama needs to be held to account for being silly enough to "bite" onto McCain's "5 million dollar" answer at Saddleback. I mean, shame on McCain for dodging the question with a JOKE (that's damn irritating) but when CNN plays the clips from Obama's Denver speech, and juxtaposes it with McCain's actual quote for Saddleback... that's something Obama needs to acknolwedge was a poorly chosen McCain joke that shows how McCain sidesteps being honest with the American people on giving straight answers.

~ CB

[yg17]

Steal from the hard working and give to the lazy. That is about the most ridiculous thing I've ever herd.


My mom and dad both have jobs, and have been without health insurance for a couple months, and will be for a couple more, because my dad was laid off from his old job, and it took him about a month to find a new one (which has got to be well below average for most who are laid off, he got lucky), but benefits don't kick in for his new job until he's been employed for 90 days. Luckily, they're able to barely afford their prescriptions without insurance, but they have both had to cancel doctors appointments because they couldn't pay for them with no insurance. And if one of them got really sick and had to go to the hospital? They'd be up ****** creek. Knock on wood, they've both been very healthy during this time and will hopefully remain that way for the next month or two while they don't have insurance. My parents are both hard working people and I am offended that you would have the audacity to call them lazy when you don't even know who they are or what they're going through.

[pseudobrit]

My mom and dad both have jobs, and have been without health insurance for a couple months, and will be for a couple more, because my dad was laid off from his old job, and it took him about a month to find a new one (which has got to be well below average for most who are laid off, he got lucky), but benefits don't kick in for his new job until he's been employed for 90 days. Luckily, they're able to barely afford their prescriptions without insurance, but they have both had to cancel doctors appointments because they couldn't pay for them with no insurance.

Sounds like they've already found ways to reduce costs by skipping those frivolous office visits.

How ungrateful they are for not appreciating these freedoms and controls they're being given under the new Ownership Society!

[solvs]

Story:Obama was exactly right: it's not about the wealth, it's about the fact that he's completely out of touch.
-
There are many very wealthy people who do get it. McCain happens not to be one.
Here's the quote that should have ended all of this. McCain didn't know how many houses he (or rather his wife) had, which is a big deal because the policies he supports help people like himself and yes, some actually do hurt the middle and lower classes. The way they are hurting now. While some people are losing their homes, or at least suffering due to the economy, not only is he not, but is supporting policies that will help people like him over those who are having problems. All while he tries to call Obama an elitist. Another of the reasons this was a good attack point. Who's really the elitist here? And who is claiming to want to help the middle and lower classes, and actually will? Cindy complaining about it just makes it worse, as noted she might as well have said "let them eat cake".

If McCain hadn't been trying to call Obama an elitist and had plans that helped those who are now hurting, this wouldn't have been an issue.

Oh cry me a river. Your husband says Obama is a traitor to his nation, and you want to complain about being attacked over your wealth? Too funny.

Here's some $550/lb cheese to go with that whine...
Insert Phil Graham comment here, but as you know, IOIYAR.

I find it hard to beleive anyone actually believes Obama thinks there are 57 states...
-
Clinging to this mistake seems preet desperate...
They don't, but it makes a good talking point when you have nothing else. McCain repeatedly makes gaffes that, as noted, might actually affect us, but they're just as bad as Obama misspeaking once. He also said something about Israel being Israel's friend. Exactly the same as continuing to mistakes Sunni and Shiite, borders on the nations we're fighting, and that we're even fighting them at all. But you know he was slammed for all of it, even though the MSM barely mentioned it, just like the Czechoslovakia thing, which he also repeated, that most just chuckled off. It is desperate, but again, what else do they have? If they argued about the issues, they wouldn't have much to go on.

I get stu's point that it's just a gaffe, but a gaffe is not the same as any other gaffe. All things are not equal. McCain showed that he is the out of touch elitist after trying to slam Obama over it, while Obama, uh, said 57 states when he meant 47 or 57 contests, or whatever else that really doesn't matter. It could be compared to the bitter comment I guess, but that was actually covered for quite while (so no liberal media conspiracy), and people kinda are bitter. No one said he wasn't talking down to people. He totally was. As was Graham who called us all whiners.

* before VP selection

** after vp selection
You weren't paying attention to the DNC. They clearly said McCain was their friend and they did used to agree with some of what he said, but as noted, he has taken a sharp shift to the right. Don't blame them for changing what they're saying, blame him for changing. Kerry, Clinton, Biden, among others, all noted it.

Of course not, we are talking 'gaffs'
We're talking about a candidate who was hitting his opponent over everything he said, and even didn't say, as proof of what he really was, and now we see from yet another McCain gaffe that maybe he's the ouch of touch one. Again, if his policies weren't what they are, this wouldn't be as much of an issue. But they are. And this proves Obama's points about him. Cindy complaining about it only seeks to reenforce the idea. As anyone who tries to relate it the insignificant, like shoes or breakfast, probably isn't going to convince someone who's hurting economically and might lose their only house that McCain is on their side and knows how they feel.

Obama has one house and just paid off his student loans, after growing up poor, so the elitist thing probably isn't going to go over so well anymore, especially after this revealing gaffe by McCain and now Cindy defending it, which of course Obama is going to exploit.

When Obama starts pushing legislation that mandates their being 57 states, and taking away your guns and your religion, then you can say his gaffes are the same.

Of course, all McCan chest beaters knows he hates america, he is a citizen of the world.
What?

I think it was an obama fan that mentioned the inability of McCan to say his number of houses, not a McCan fan that started this, just wanted him to use the same argument on one vs the other. Fairness docterine.
Because all things are equal, even though they're not. :rolleyes:

Like Obama on the telecoms and security ehh.
Which he was savagely criticized for by the Dems.

[QUOTE]How is the number of houses someone relevant to their ability to run a country?
It isn't in and of itself, but as I said, when your policies help those are rich enough as you must be to forget how many homes you have (or worse, know that the answer will hurt you with the lower classes so obfuscate) it isn't going to win you support from a country that's hurting economically right now, mostly thanks to the policies of other rich people who have no idea what it's like to be poor, or even middle class.

Someone has to pay for it ...
We already do pay more than most other places, even while we get less.

Steal from the hard working and give to the lazy. That is about the most ridiculous thing I've ever herd.
What a simplistic way to describe such a complicated issue that is also hurting so many people.

McCain never gaffed on this, never mis spoke, never mis led, never lied about it. He simply made a note to get back on that due to the complicated financial dealings between Cindy and himself. Then WHAM the whole contraversy over his 4 7 or 10 houses.
Still completely missing the point.

Obama, speaks of visiting 57 states with one to go, then goes on about not getting to alaska or hawaii because of his staff. He at minimum gaffs, he mis-speaks, mis leads the idiot fanboys that believe he did go to 57 states, or has he lied? (depends on what your defintion of "is" is I guess). He not only gets a pass, but in this thread alone, he get 3 excuses, heard on NPR, read somewhere, hypothesized. Three, 3, excuses.
Yes, exactly the same thing. :confused: :rolleyes: Of all the gaffes to choose, this is the silliest. I'm sure that's you're point, but it's making you look like more of the partisan criticizing Obama for a slip (whatever he meant, doesn't really matter, he misspoke and there was no subtext) while seemingly defending McCain for his (where there was subtext, either he knew it would hurt him or he really is so rich - actually his wife is - that he doesn't know how many houses he really has, either of which makes him seem out of touch). No one believes Obama thinks there's 57 states, or that we now all think there are, but we do know McCain doesn't know what it's like to be poor. Both through his policies, and now this. It hurt him because it proved the axiom true. Just like they tried to do with Obama's bitter comments, which also worked.

McCain doesn't gaff, he doesn't mis speak, he doesn't mis lead nor lie> you guys attack with full force. Well guess what, we (those not enamored with Obama) can make arguments too.
Lately you haven't been making very good ones, but given what you're defending, I guess it's not as easy. You could legitimately find criticism with Obama if you really tried. I don't know why you don't.

[solvs]

Sorry, forgot the link:

Why McCain's Wealth Matters (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jared-bernstein/why-mccains-wealth-matter_b_120933.html)
From this perspective, the problem isn't that he's rich. It's that his wealth is part of a package that strongly suggests he can't relate to the economic struggles faced by so many people from households that don't reside in the top "fractiles" of the income distribution. And if you can't relate, you're much less likely to craft and move a policy agenda that will help, a shortcoming we've seen much too much of in recent years.
Sums it up nicely.