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MacRumors
Jan 15, 2004, 07:09 AM
Digital Pro Sound (http://www.digitalprosound.com/2004/01_jan/news/applepreview040114.htm) offers details on new products to be announced by Apple today at NAMM.

Logic Pro 6 - "incorporates all of the Logic line of technologies into a single package", including "Guitar Amp" and "Sculpture" for $999.

Logic Express - a mid-range product, akin to Final Cut Express, which for $299.

Soundtrack 1.2 - Price drop (as rumored (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/01/20040112040931.shtml)) to $199 (from $299) and MIDI support and custom loop creation.

More details will be available at Apple.com (http://www.apple.com)

tveric
Jan 15, 2004, 07:14 AM
A Soundtrack price drop! Oh wait, I just want GarageBand for $49 now. Oops.

mac15
Jan 15, 2004, 07:14 AM
Rumors actually eventuating, my eyes! ;)

iMan
Jan 15, 2004, 07:17 AM
Suspected as much :)

I guess all the whiners of Garageband not having MIDI support and other pro-stuff gets what they really want also now...

Maybe we will someday learn to let things settle a bit before we attack Apple because they are not always doing as we want "right now"...

johnnyjibbs
Jan 15, 2004, 07:21 AM
"Year of the Music"?

GarageBand, Logic, Logic Express, Soundtrack, iPod, iPod mini, worldwide iTMS?

Well, my one worry with switching to Mac last year was entry level music creation software (i.e. lack of). Now there is GarageBand. That's on order. But if that's not good enough, now I can get Logic Express!! Hopefully it will only be 138 education (same as FCE) and I'll snap it up!

eric_n_dfw
Jan 15, 2004, 07:24 AM
I bought FCP 4 on 12/31/03, I wonder if I'll qualify for a free (+ shipping) up-to-date upgrade on Soundtrack 1.2.

Grimace
Jan 15, 2004, 07:42 AM
$199 is incredible for Soundtrack!

evil_santa
Jan 15, 2004, 07:43 AM
Originally posted by eric_n_dfw
I bought FCP 4 on 12/31/03, I wonder if I'll qualify for a free (+ shipping) up-to-date upgrade on Soundtrack 1.2.

soundtrack update 1.2 is a free download.

http://www.apple.com/soundtrack/download/

maka
Jan 15, 2004, 07:56 AM
I wonder what will be the upgrade posibilities for logic gold users...

Also, I wonder. Are all the users of Logic Platinum now able to unlock all the extra AI and plugins? (Space Designer looks and the Guitar Modeler look so nice... :) )

zim
Jan 15, 2004, 08:05 AM
I feel confused, Logic, Logic express, soundtrack and garageband? If someone was just getting into digital composing, it would be clear that garageband is where they would start but what would be the next step? Soundtrack or Logic express?

I hope that eventually apple does what they did with the iMovie, FCE and FCP set. FCE can open iMovie files and FCP can open FCE files. This makes a clean transition for the growing artist.

crenz
Jan 15, 2004, 08:08 AM
It's confirmed on emagic's homepage (http://www.emagic.de), so I guess it's not a rumor anymore :).
I'm quite curious what happens to Logic Gold users, since I'm one of them. I hope I don't have to pay several hundreds of Euros/Dollars for an upgrade...

I noticed they really streamlined the product line: Basically emagic now only sells the two Logic packages and hardware. That's it. All the other, smaller products (effects, ...) seem to be packaged into Logic.

Ratboy
Jan 15, 2004, 08:11 AM
I got Soundtrack as part of Final Cut Pro, and the update page says that I need to use the FCP updates page (http://www.apple.com/finalcutpro/download/). However, when I enter my serial number it says I have already downloaded the update. I wonder if that database has not been updated to allow this latest update as opposed to the FCP 4.1 update. Is anyone else experiencing this situation?

Edit: It works through Software Update.

IndyGopher
Jan 15, 2004, 08:22 AM
It's in Software Update, you can avoid the screwy download page.

Photorun
Jan 15, 2004, 08:28 AM
Cripes, Apple is turning into... an audio software juggernaut!

Freakk123
Jan 15, 2004, 08:32 AM
Good Lord! It definately does seem like "The year of the music!" Soundtrack and Logic Express seems almost like overkill. Logic sounds great. And then there is just me and my little GarageBand!

Photorun
Jan 15, 2004, 08:32 AM
Bummer you can't record in Soundtrack, the "upgrade" from GarageBand for $150 would be well worth it if it could do that.

macMaestro
Jan 15, 2004, 08:37 AM
Originally posted by zim
I feel confused, Logic, Logic express, soundtrack and garageband? If someone was just getting into digital composing, it would be clear that garageband is where they would start but what would be the next step? Soundtrack or Logic express?

Sountrack is for film soundtracks. This is the purpose of Sountrack's existence. Soundtrack's not really a 'pro' music app as far as musicians are concerned. It's for video editors who want to quickly string together loops in time to video footage. Logic has many more facets to it - MIDI editing for example. If you're making soundtracks and don't need the 'pro' musician features that Logic Pro offers, Soundtrack would be the way to go. If you're creating music with your band and you've grown out of GargeBand, you go to Logic.

El Capitano
Jan 15, 2004, 08:39 AM
Woo-hoo... I posted "now if only we had Logic Express" in the GarageBand discussion, and whaddya know, it appears. Thank you Apple! :)

zim
Jan 15, 2004, 08:42 AM
Originally posted by macMaestro
Sountrack is for film soundtracks. This is the purpose of Sountrack's existence. Soundtrack's not really a 'pro' music app as far as musicians are concerned. It's for video editors who want to quickly string together loops in time to video footage. Logic has many more facets to it - MIDI editing for example. If you're making soundtracks and don't need the 'pro' musician features that Logic Pro offers, Soundtrack would be the way to go. If you're creating music with your band and you've grown out of GargeBand, you go to Logic.

All makes sense now, thanks macMaestro.

SilentPanda
Jan 15, 2004, 08:43 AM
Originally posted by evil_santa
soundtrack 1.2 is a free download.

http://www.apple.com/soundtrack/download/

Just to clarify for somebody later... Soundtrack 1.2 Updater is a free download. Not Soundtrack 1.2. (I know that's what you meant but you know somebody here won't and will complain after they spent 5 days downloading on their 300 baud modem)

macMaestro
Jan 15, 2004, 08:46 AM
Originally posted by Photorun
Bummer you can't record in Soundtrack, the "upgrade" from GarageBand for $150 would be well worth it if it could do that.

You can still record audio. Soundtrack just doesn't do MIDI.

And to Freakk123, it's not overkill. Logic Express and Soundtrack serve two different low-end pro markets (Soundtracks and plain old music). GarageBand serves both consumer markets, and Logic Pro serves both high-end pro markets. In my mind at least it makes since.

mstecker
Jan 15, 2004, 08:49 AM
I've been wrestling for months with "what to buy" for a simple home stuido. I was just about to buy an Mbox, but I got put off b the latency of the USB interface and the then-incompatibility with Jaguar.

When Garageband was announced, it seemed like the perfect starting point, although I knew that I'd eventually want/need more.

So, now Garageband arrives tomorrow, and hopefully my existing audio interface and midi interface will be able to be used with Logic Express down the road.

This is awesome news.

greg6028
Jan 15, 2004, 09:06 AM
Soundtrack's update still will not do what Garageband will - connect a keyboard <correct>
Whereas
Garageband
Pro Logic Express
and Pro Logic will?
Garageband, Pro Logic Express are more alike and where
Pro Logic has everything from Garageband, Soundtrack and Pro Logic Express has....
It this correct?
(I saw the update for Soundtrack and was about to run to the store and buy a keyboard!)

tjwett
Jan 15, 2004, 09:08 AM
So it's now either Logic Pro for a grand or Express for 300 bucks? Eek, I like the old pricing much better. And I see on emagic's website that they are taking no credit for the change: "Apple Streamlines Logic Product Line".
Perhaps the little corporate takeover is starting to leave a bad taste in their mouth. I certainly don't like it.

tjwett
Jan 15, 2004, 09:10 AM
Originally posted by crenz
...I'm quite curious what happens to Logic Gold users, since I'm one of them...

Ditto. We have an XSKey for Gold here now. I have a bad feeling about this.

EDIT: It looks as though Logic Express is identical to the Logic Audio Big Box, with a $70 price increase. Seems they have simply removed Gold from the lineup.

sketchy
Jan 15, 2004, 09:20 AM
Originally posted by evil_santa
soundtrack 1.2 is a free download.

http://www.apple.com/soundtrack/download/

YAY -- we just dropped a bunch on soundtrack last month

tjwett
Jan 15, 2004, 09:23 AM
According to emagics site the ONLY software they are making now is Logic Pro, and Logic Express. They JUST released an amazing new reverb and updated a bunch of instruments. I was considering buying that reverb, now it's gone. I knew this would happen. Every sit back back and watch Apple destroy emagic. :(

corey
Jan 15, 2004, 09:35 AM
Originally posted by tjwett
According to emagics site the ONLY software they are making now is Logic Pro, and Logic Express. They JUST released an amazing new reverb and updated a bunch of instruments. I was considering buying that reverb, now it's gone. I knew this would happen. Every sit back back and watch Apple destroy emagic. :( ummm, its part of Logic Pro

corey
Jan 15, 2004, 09:38 AM
Originally posted by tjwett
EDIT: It looks as though Logic Express is identical to the Logic Audio Big Box, with a $70 price increase. Seems they have simply removed Gold from the lineup. actually, the big box msrp is 299, so same price. and im guessing there will be upgrade pricing for those who already own.

tjwett
Jan 15, 2004, 09:41 AM
Originally posted by corey
ummm, its part of Logic Pro

ummmm, i know! that's the bad part. just yesterday it was a standalone plug-in that you could purchase separately, as were all the Emagic software instruments. there are lots of Gold and Audio users out there who would like to buy them, but not spend a grand on this new box. and i feel REALLY bad for anyone who bought ANY Emagic products recently. what a blow!

sonicbaz
Jan 15, 2004, 09:47 AM
Can someone explain if I am a Logic Platinum 6 user what this means to me? I have the ESX24II and the EVP88. Will I have to pay anymore for this product, sorry I don't yet understand.

:rolleyes:

sonicbaz

iMan
Jan 15, 2004, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by tjwett
.... and i feel REALLY bad for anyone who bought ANY Emagic products recently. what a blow!

about the same feeling of finally buying that G4 you dreamt of - just to find that Apple release the G5 two days later...
actually I was bracing myself for any upgrades during MW to the PB I bought in december - lucky me got away with an iLife at $49 :D

corey
Jan 15, 2004, 09:50 AM
it will probably be like 700-750 street price, and more than likely there will be upgrade pricing (possibly something in line with the current competitive upgrade - msrp649/street499.)

Squire
Jan 15, 2004, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by mstecker
When Garageband was announced, it seemed like the perfect starting point, although I knew that I'd eventually want/need more.

Same here. I thought, So I go from GarageBand for 50 bucks to Logic for a grand? Now we have some nice middle ground. I wonder, though, if Logic Express is at all idiot-proof. It would be cool if it had a nicer learning curve than the full-blown Logic box. (I heard it's quite tricky to get the hang of.)

Squire

tjwett
Jan 15, 2004, 09:55 AM
Originally posted by sonicbaz
Can someone explain if I am a Logic Platinum 6 user what this means to me? I have the ESX24II and the EVP88. Will I have to pay anymore for this product, sorry I don't yet understand.

:rolleyes:

sonicbaz

no i'm sure you'll be fine using what you already have. what i'm pissed about is now i don't have the option to purchase Space Designer or any of the other software instruments. if i want them, i have to pay $999. but i already have Logic 6, this whole thing just sucks. i never liked the idea of Apple taking over Emagic, now i know why.

tjwett
Jan 15, 2004, 09:57 AM
Originally posted by Squire
Same here. I thought, So I go from GarageBand for 50 bucks to Logic for a grand? Now we have some nice middle ground. I wonder, though, if Logic Express is at all idiot-proof. It would be cool if it had a nicer learning curve than the full-blown Logic box. (I heard it's quite tricky to get the hang of.)

Squire

the interface/tools/layout/everything is identical between Express and Pro. Pro just has more features, FX, instruments, etc.

Squire
Jan 15, 2004, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by tjwett
the interface/tools/layout/everything is identical between Express and Pro. Pro just has more features, FX, instruments, etc.

Oh...thanks. I guess that could be good (more like the real thing) and bad (harder for the novice user). Ah, what the hell. If I ever do buy Logic Express, I'll buy a ...for Dummies book or something.

Squire

corey
Jan 15, 2004, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by tjwett
if i want them, i have to pay $999.msrp

Originally posted by tjwett
i never liked the idea of Apple taking over Emagic, now i know why. dude, full details have not been released yet. settle down, you may just end up getting everything for a little more than what Space Designer would have cost you.

lazyrighteye
Jan 15, 2004, 10:14 AM
I currently run Pro Tools LE 6 with a Digi001 on a G4/500. Rock solid... in classic (blah!).
Digidesign has yet to offer Panther support for G4/001 config. They are too slow to adapt, so I'm looking to leave...

Anyone know if I can use my Digi001 with Logic?

Rex44
Jan 15, 2004, 10:23 AM
Originally posted by tjwett
They JUST released an amazing new reverb . . .

How good is it as compared to Digi's D-Verb? Is it (or any software reverb!) approaching a stand-alone Lexicon unit yet?

tjwett
Jan 15, 2004, 10:30 AM
Originally posted by Squire
Oh...thanks. I guess that could be good (more like the real thing) and bad (harder for the novice user). Ah, what the hell. If I ever do buy Logic Express, I'll buy a ...for Dummies book or something.

Squire

it is the "real thing". we own Platinum here but could easily do all our work in Express. most people will never even scratch the surface of Express, let alone have the need for Platinum or "Pro" as it's now called. unless you need to connect to TDM hardware or giant ProTools rigs, Platinum will do little for you creatively. Express supports all the same audio quality and plug-in standards. honestly i would use Express for at least a year before even looking at Pro. just like Final Cut Express can get the job done just as good, unless you need to hook up to hardware and edit actualy film, etc. there are very few people out there that really USE Platinum for all it's worth.

tjwett
Jan 15, 2004, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by Rex44
How good is it as compared to Digi's D-Verb? Is it (or any software reverb!) approaching a stand-alone Lexicon unit yet?

well i got to spend a day with one recently and i must say it was damn impressive. not long ago i was blown away by AltiVerb and this seemed to do it all and more. sounded just great. i have heard the D-Verb as well but it was in post in a very dense mix, and i'm more of a composer than an engineer so my ears aren't the best out there. i'm sure a mastering engineer could still spot the difference between hardware and software at this level. i think it would hard to not be impressed though. not sure where you are located but try calling a guitar center if you have one. i saw one running in a nice room over here.

Marble
Jan 15, 2004, 11:04 AM
Eh... Tracktion still takes the cake in terms of features/price comparability. Plus it's new and independent. The only thing I might miss are the built-in (and very high quality) Audio Units, but hey at least I can buy my VSTs separately.

pianojoe
Jan 15, 2004, 11:16 AM
Since I'm spending 8 hrs/day with Logic Audio Platinum (and did so since 1986, C-Lab Creator 2.0 is the beginning of my upgrade path), I'd like to explain something:

Logic Platinum, or "Pro", is for professional musicians, and those who operate a recording studio. I use it on stage also.

Logic Express is for those pros who don't need the full weight of a big studio. Might (?!) be interesting for the abitious amateur as well. Still, there are incredible features and the not-so-easy-to-grab concept of MIDI and audio hybrid recording, and of setting up your equipment. (What makes Logic so complicated is the approach to create a virtual representation of your studio equipment within the machine. And studio designs vary widely.) There is a learning curve.

Garage Band is for Joe Average. It's easy to handle, but limited (in a way that will not hinder Joe A.). "Hey I can connect this mike and sing to my Mac!" He'll never have heard of a microphone preamp anyway. (The finest microphone I own is $2800.)

Soundtrack, as stated before on this thread, is a video app.

Now, where's the problem? The problem is, as often, Apple marketing. Please don't let the pros explain that they'll create their next big hit with Garage Band. That's crap.

I don't think the pros really know what J. A. needs.

EDIT:

The emagic online store is down right now. We'll have to check out what upgrades they'll offer. In the past, upgrades have been reasonably priced.

eromitlab
Jan 15, 2004, 11:21 AM
well gee-golly!! this is a great audio offering by Apple... but... when are they going to put together a notation package? I mean, Sibelius is great (but damned expensive), Finale is okay (in a pinch and still damned expensive), but, if Apple is trying to get into the music software biz, there needs to be a solid notation program in there for those musicians who still craft their music by traditional means, not by loops and sequences.

pianojoe
Jan 15, 2004, 11:29 AM
Originally posted by eromitlab
when are they going to put together a notation package? (...), if Apple is trying to get into the music software biz, there needs to be a solid notation program in there for those musicians who still craft their music by traditional means, not by loops and sequences.

I've used Logic for notation for over a decade but I recently switched to Sibelius. Logic is somewhat limited. I still use it for quick & dirty notation jobs, because integration of notation and Midi is great. If you need sheet music AND a good playback, Logic is the way to go.

Keep in mind that Logic used to be a Midi Sequencer. And out of 5 or so ways to view your midi data, one was "score edit". From that point they've come a long way. Still, Logic's primary goal is not professional music typesetting. Don't try to implement everything at once. (Who yelled "Microsoft"?)

SlowX
Jan 15, 2004, 11:37 AM
I *really* love the fact that Apple's pushing music and music creation, I really do. I mean, I WANT the masses to poke around and see what happens when they do (while simultaneously hoping it wont just be remixes of "Oops I Did it Again").

But at the same time, I also hope Apple won't edge other music software-making companies out of the picture. I love Ableton's Live, Propellerhead 's reason, and MOTU's Performer. Hopefully they will all be able to party on the Mac OS w/ no competition from them.

I mean, Adobe HAS dropped Premiere for Mac...

27407
Jan 15, 2004, 11:40 AM
With all this excitement let's not forget that you could just get a Digi 002 rack for 1199. Then you get all the recording and midi interface hardware you could want, plus pro tools comes with it as well as ableton live, reason (adapted), and some others.
So for 200 more you get all the software plus a whole hardware interface.

3rdpath
Jan 15, 2004, 11:42 AM
as a long-time digital performer user this announcement has really gotten my attention. for basically the price of an upgrade to dp4 and machV i can get the whole logic caboodle...impressive.

there may be a switch in my future.

SlowX
Jan 15, 2004, 11:50 AM
Originally posted by 3rdpath
as a long-time digital performer user this announcement has really gotten my attention. for basically the price of an upgrade to dp4 and machV i can get the whole logic caboodle...impressive.

there may be a switch in my future.

How do Logic and DP4 compare?

ferrit
Jan 15, 2004, 12:04 PM
I have a Dual 2 Ghz G5, would be pretty happy I think with Express, but not without Multiprocessor support, that sucks!

Logic Gold 6 has Multiprocessor support and is optimised for the G5 isn't it ??? Might get it a bit cheaper if it's going going gone ;-)

Jon

k2k koos
Jan 15, 2004, 12:16 PM
Yep, my sentiments exactly here, regardign Logic gold. I've just spend money to upgrade my logic system to the newest Logic Gold OSX 6.3.2 version, an dnow they do this, scrap it all together.

I understand streamlining the product line, but how to upgrade if at all possible, AND, will all the instruments still be available as seperate products? (i am still lusting after the ES2 synth plug in for example...)

tjwett
Jan 15, 2004, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by SlowX
How do Logic and DP4 compare?

I'm long-time Logic user, I've given DP a try for a few months here and there over the years. Here's my take. DP is great for recording live instruments, a band, drums, etc. Traditional studio recording. Where it has always lacked is in it's support for software synths and plug-ins. Where Logic had VST (and now AU) support which was the most widely used plug-in format, DP uses it's own proprietary plug-in format, MAS. While a lot of the major developers do make MAS plugs for DP, it's no where near as many as you'll find in VST or even AU format. While DP is pretty solid with MIDI it will never compare to Logic's power for dealing with it. Both systems are nice, but for me Logic just makes sense. I work alone, I use software instruments, I rarely record an actual "regular" instrument, and often I need to print scores for people. Also, MOTU is famous for having terrible support. Emagic, on the other hand, have treated me very well for a long time. As an aside, I prefer to work primarily in Ableton Live whenever possible.

tjwett
Jan 15, 2004, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by k2k koos
Yep, my sentiments exactly here, regardign Logic gold. I've just spend money to upgrade my logic system to the newest Logic Gold OSX 6.3.2 version, an dnow they do this, scrap it all together.

I understand streamlining the product line, but how to upgrade if at all possible, AND, will all the instruments still be available as seperate products? (i am still lusting after the ES2 synth plug in for example...)

it really is awful, i feel for you. i just want emagic to be emagic again :(

kanker
Jan 15, 2004, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by tjwett
it really is awful, i feel for you. i just want emagic to be emagic again :( Just talked to Emagic USA support, and while he said the price wasn't written in stone, the upgrade to pro 6 would be $199 for Plat AND Gold users. Personally, as a Gold user, I'm pretty stoked. He said they would be taking orders in about 2 weeks.

plastree
Jan 15, 2004, 12:25 PM
Where Logic had VST (and now AU) support which was the most widely used plug-in format, DP uses it's own proprietary plug-in format, MAS. While a lot of the major developers do make MAS plugs for DP, it's no where near as many as you'll find in VST or even AU format.

Newp. DP supports AU. And you can get a wrapper for VST plugs. The major dif between Logic and DP is the interface. DP bears more similarity to Pro Tools, and Logic is, well, Logic, for better or worse. Both have similar capabilities. Logic has the edge in MIDI, but only where complex operations are concerned, like CC patching.

Sabenth
Jan 15, 2004, 12:33 PM
Speaking from the prospect of buying a new system for the on the road i am curious regarding logic and all the rest of the gang. Dose Logic do VST i am sort of just fresh into all of this stuff at the moment i know a fair bit about cubase but sod all about Logic .

Garage band looks great for noobies too and as for sound track Like someone said before its made formovies and tv..

great job apple year of th emusic

vixapphire
Jan 15, 2004, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by corey
ummm, its part of Logic Pro

Then pray tell, how do those of us who already have Logic 6 and were considering adding Space Designer and, say ES2, now go about it? I'm not interested in paying $999 for something I primarily already have, nor do I wish to spend money on the B3 or clavinet simulators on offer.

Whatever happened to "mass customization"? I'd rather pay a few bucks extra for the modules I want to add to L6 than have to buy the friggin' thing all over again. Does this mean that the next time I free-update the program (6.4?) that all these instruments will magically appear authorized on my xskey? If so, hallelujah! something makes me think this isn't going to be the case, though... :confused:

kanker
Jan 15, 2004, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by Sabenth
Speaking from the prospect of buying a new system for the on the road i am curious regarding logic and all the rest of the gang. Dose Logic do VST i am sort of just fresh into all of this stuff at the moment i know a fair bit about cubase but sod all about Logic .

Garage band looks great for noobies too and as for sound track Like someone said before its made formovies and tv..

great job apple year of th emusic Logic does not do VST, but there is a wrapper (VST to AU) available from fxpansion (http://www.fxpansion.com/)

kanker
Jan 15, 2004, 12:38 PM
Originally posted by vixapphire
Then pray tell, how do those of us who already have Logic 6 and were considering adding Space Designer and, say ES2, now go about it? I'm not interested in paying $999 for something I primarily already have, nor do I wish to spend money on the B3 or clavinet simulators on offer.

Whatever happened to "mass customization"? I'd rather pay a few bucks extra for the modules I want to add to L6 than have to buy the friggin' thing all over again. Does this mean that the next time I free-update the program (6.4?) that all these instruments will magically appear authorized on my xskey? If so, hallelujah! something makes me think this isn't going to be the case, though... :confused: Apparently it will all be combined in the $199 upgrade. That's a whole lot less than buying spacedesigner alone.

vixapphire
Jan 15, 2004, 12:46 PM
if they give all that for 199, it's totally killer!

LethalWolfe
Jan 15, 2004, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by macMaestro
Sountrack is for film soundtracks. This is the purpose of Sountrack's existence. Soundtrack's not really a 'pro' music app as far as musicians are concerned. It's for video editors who want to quickly string together loops in time to video footage. Logic has many more facets to it - MIDI editing for example. If you're making soundtracks and don't need the 'pro' musician features that Logic Pro offers, Soundtrack would be the way to go. If you're creating music with your band and you've grown out of GargeBand, you go to Logic.


You are kind of right about Soundtrack. It is aimed at video people, who have next to zero musical knowledge, who want to get away from using pre-produced music (which can very greatly in quality and the good stuff isn't cheap) and can't afford to hire a composer or license the latest pop single (both of which cost much more than the pre-produced music I first mentioned). You're not going to see anyone use Soundtrack to score a feature film, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it used in commericals, documentaries, corporate, and event video. Basically places that can't afford, or who's clients can't afford, to shell out hundreds of dollars (on the low end) just to use 1 song 1 time.


Lethal

tjwett
Jan 15, 2004, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by kanker
Just talked to Emagic USA support, and while he said the price wasn't written in stone, the upgrade to pro 6 would be $199 for Plat AND Gold users. Personally, as a Gold user, I'm pretty stoked. He said they would be taking orders in about 2 weeks.

hey, that's pretty damn good! ok so i can upgrade from Gold to Pro and get Space Designer and everything? i'm in! wow, maybe i spoke to soon, as usual. very cool. :)

tjwett
Jan 15, 2004, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by plastree
Newp. DP supports AU. And you can get a wrapper for VST plugs. The major dif between Logic and DP is the interface. DP bears more similarity to Pro Tools, and Logic is, well, Logic, for better or worse. Both have similar capabilities. Logic has the edge in MIDI, but only where complex operations are concerned, like CC patching.

i'm aware of the new changes. i was referring to DP in the past but i probably wasn't clear on that. as an aside: got to play with Machfive recently and all I can say is, WOW! it really is stunning.

kanker
Jan 15, 2004, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by tjwett
hey, that's pretty damn good! ok so i can upgrade from Gold to Pro and get Space Designer and everything? i'm in! wow, maybe i spoke to soon, as usual. very cool. :) Yes tjwett, there is a Santa Claus. Everything is bundled in Pro- all the plugins including EVOC and SD. The one thing I can't seem to find out is what happens to the TDM integration software. Couldn't find any info on it on the Emagic site- maybe that stuff's included as well?

tjwett
Jan 15, 2004, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by kanker
...The one thing I can't seem to find out is what happens to the TDM integration software. Couldn't find any info on it on the Emagic site- maybe that stuff's included as well?

there is mention of course of TDM support on Apple's comparison chart bewteen Express and Pro. i assume that will all be in the box. the box....must....have....the box. damn, i was mad about this but now i'm kinda psyched. it does suck still that those happy with Express don't have the option of buying themselves the instruments and plugs without having to upgrade to pro. i know people who are quite happy with Logic Audio who don't want Platinum or Pro but would like to be able to go to Sam Ash and pick up the EVP88 or EXS24, etc, like it has always been all this time.

http://www.apple.com/software/logicexpress/comparison.html

nagromme
Jan 15, 2004, 01:07 PM
Is the reputation of some Mac users shrieking at Apple before knowing the facts being proven? ;)

Knute5
Jan 15, 2004, 02:14 PM
Buy more RAM. Logic Pro and a G5 jumped to 4GB RAM will be a killer DAW. Kiss the midi/audio/wallwart cord spaghetti junction goodbye and just make some damn music...

tjwett
Jan 15, 2004, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by Knute5
Buy more RAM. Logic Pro and a G5 jumped to 4GB RAM will be a killer DAW. Kiss the midi/audio/wallwart cord spaghetti junction goodbye and just make some damn music...

Seriously, when mLan hits it's gonna be the greatest. I imagine a nice little mixer with a Firewire port. All my audio, MIDI, and data traveling down a single cable. No more snakes, wires, 60 cycle hum, patch bays, headaches

dstorey
Jan 15, 2004, 03:58 PM
after the rebranding of logic to match final cut pro, I wonder why apple didn't go all the way and make it Apple Logic Express and pro. It sseems confusing having all these pro apps, but the last one not hosting the apple brand. It seems the odd one out, especially as the others share a similar box design. Anyone think apple will produce a pro suit with logic pro, final cut pro and dvd studio and shake, and a express suit with final cut express, logic express and maybe a dvd studio express in the future?

GaelDesign
Jan 15, 2004, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by tjwett
Seriously, when mLan hits it's gonna be the greatest. I imagine a nice little mixer with a Firewire port. All my audio, MIDI, and data traveling down a single cable. No more snakes, wires, 60 cycle hum, patch bays, headaches

I hear ya.

This isn't mLan, but it looks pretty cool anyway:

http://www.mackie.com/namm/onyx.html

CoreAudio support for the FireWire expansion. Not bad. And Mackie's mixers and mic pre's are pretty rock-solid, so this new lineup looks great.

Jared

tortoise
Jan 15, 2004, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by tjwett
not long ago i was blown away by AltiVerb and this seemed to do it all and more. sounded just great.

The Altiverb sounds very good in a mix (very smooth for the money), but the spaces it creates sound "off" on quiet tracks where you can really hear the reverb doing its thing. I thought it was just me, and then someone else I know who has good ears mentioned the same thing to me one day. The best I can describe it is that it sounds like there are regular dead spots in the virtual 3D space that it is emulating, and not in a natural way. High quality non-sampled reverb engines like the TC M3000 actually make more realistic sounding spaces in my opinion, primarily because the spaces they create do seem to be smoothly immersive in a way that is artifact-y in Altiverb. Again though, for most mixes where you can't discern so much detail in the reverb space it works great.

That said, I can't wait to check out Space Designer. I think the artifact with Altiverb is clearly just an implementation issue, and I've really been looking forward to seeing more of these on the market.

PixelBoy
Jan 15, 2004, 04:50 PM
For the person who was complaining that ProToolsLE 6/Digi001 doesn't work with Panther:

Actually, it works just fine in my experience. I'm sort of the tech guy for my musician buddy, and I upgraded him to Panther with his Digi001, and he's cranking out the tunes. Working just fine. So while Digidesign in their sphincter puckering glory haven't "certified" it with Panther yet, I wouldn't let that stop you from upgrading. Working in OS-9 must be brutal... yeesh! If you're nervous about it, just install it on a seperate partition or drive and try it out before making the full switch.

As to the new Logic scheme, I'm not sure I like it. It used to be you could buy Platinum for like $700, now you have to spend a full grand... lame. Actually if Apple would just support surround sound in FCP, I wouldn't care less. Its competition all supports surround sound natively in the app, and it's time Apple joined the crowd. Also, Digidesign needs to add surround sound to ProToolsLE... 'cause there's no way I'm going to upgrade to a TDM system just to get surround sound... give us a break.

Please Apple, add surround sound support to FCP. My Vegas and Premiere buddies are laughing at me.

Please Digidesign, add surround sound support to ProToolsLE... all your competition has it.

Think about it. On the Mac, I have to spend $2500 to get good video editing with surround sound and DVD authoring (FCP+LP6+DVDSP). On the PC, I can do them all in Vegas+Architect for $800. Granted the Apple software is IMO superior, but this is a huge price difference to get a feature that should "be there".

h'biki
Jan 15, 2004, 05:29 PM
Originally posted by tjwett
According to emagics site the ONLY software they are making now is Logic Pro, and Logic Express. They JUST released an amazing new reverb and updated a bunch of instruments. I was considering buying that reverb, now it's gone. I knew this would happen. Every sit back back and watch Apple destroy emagic. :(

So just ring up your local reseller/distributor and still see if they have a boxed version for sale?

They don't just suddenly disappear into the aether when Apple restructure's Emagic.

(And personally, $999 for all that is an amazing deal. See what the upgrade price is... Apple obviously isn't interested in reselling Emagic plugins to users of other software. Just bundle it all)

h'biki
Jan 15, 2004, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by PixelBoy

Please Apple, add surround sound support to FCP. My Vegas and Premiere buddies are laughing at me.

Please Digidesign, add surround sound support to ProToolsLE... all your competition has it.


Personally, I hate doing audio inFfinal Cut Pro. It's a video editing app, not an audio editing app, any surround mixing done in FCP would be purely a scratch mix. That's true of all video editing apps. If you want good quality mixes do em in a dedicated program.

As for ProTools LE supporting surround. It depends on what you mean. With a 002 you could just route the 8 seperate outputs to 6 discrete channels, then mixdown those outputs seperately and import em into a.pack. Its not a huge deal cause you have to export the non-matrixed tracks anyway.

If you want 'surround panning' well, thats a slightly different story, but there are work arounds. BUT most people can't do good stereo mixes - yet they wanna jump straight into 5.1 mixes. WTF? Unless all you wanna do is pump your atmoses through the rear channel... which is easily done with the current state of play.

cpjakes
Jan 15, 2004, 06:27 PM
Originally posted by lazyrighteye
I currently run Pro Tools LE 6 with a Digi001 on a G4/500. Rock solid... in classic (blah!).
Digidesign has yet to offer Panther support for G4/001 config. They are too slow to adapt, so I'm looking to leave...

Anyone know if I can use my Digi001 with Logic?

While incompatible with the G5, you can download the LE update for the MBox/002 and it will run your 001. They won't necessarily support it or have fully tested it. I have it running and have had no problems. But even before this update, the CoreAudio drivers worked on other programs like Digital Performer, so I assume Logic would be the same.

But grab that update, it should work...

cpjakes

eric_n_dfw
Jan 15, 2004, 07:50 PM
Originally posted by evil_santa
soundtrack update 1.2 is a free download.

http://www.apple.com/soundtrack/download/ Sweet!

I guess I read it wrong - thought it was still a rumor when I posted that! Downloading it now -- 30.1MB of audio goodness! (I hope!)

aafuss1
Jan 15, 2004, 09:46 PM
I think Apple should offer a Windows version of Garageband- eg. a low upgrade price for former Windows based logic users. Under $99.Apple could reserve its mac only deision with logic-release a Windows version dowqn the track. Say 10-15 years time.

tjwett
Jan 15, 2004, 10:29 PM
after this uproar i don't think they would want to go back to providing Windows versions ever again. people might actually invade Cupertino.

tjwett
Jan 15, 2004, 10:33 PM
Originally posted by tortoise
The Altiverb sounds very good in a mix (very smooth for the money), but the spaces it creates sound "off" on quiet tracks where you can really hear the reverb doing its thing...

I agree. I was hearing being used in some very dense mixes with orchestral samples, etc. and it sounded killer. But I also heard it on a solo piano and a nylon string guitar solo and it definitely wasn't perfect. For the money it's pretty darn good but if you need something that can hold up in a quiet situation you'd prob do better with Space Designer or better yet, a dedicated hardware unit. What was that rackmount convolution verb unit? I think it was made by Sony for some reason...

here it is: http://www.era-tv.com/catalogue/?type=file&f=Sony_DRE-S777.asp

Only 8 grand!:(

cpjakes
Jan 15, 2004, 11:04 PM
Originally posted by tjwett
I think it was made by Sony for some reason...

here it is: http://www.era-tv.com/catalogue/?type=file&f=Sony_DRE-S777.asp

Only 8 grand!:(

But it's a pretty kick ass machine and concept. It takes a while to load (all the reverb profiles come on CD) but once it's on it's pretty nice...

cpjakes

i_am_a_cow
Jan 17, 2004, 11:15 AM
was logic always this much money? 999 seems pretty expensive for audio software, and from the website I really don't see that many features that aren't in cubase sx or digital performer... i have cubase SL and it even does most of the things I read on the logic pro site (apple.com/logic) for only like 400 bucks. I dont understand. Someone with logic please explain.:confused:

sonicbaz
Jan 17, 2004, 11:56 AM
:o Logic is a Pro audio/sequencing application with advanced midi environments, better plugins (reverbs, delays, virtual instruments). Logic has a much tighter sequencing engine and better sounding audio. You can run Pro-Tools HD and TDM hardware too, which attracts heavy weight producers and composers. At the end of the day you can use other tools to do the same thing, but as an original Notator user Logic in my opinion has worked much better over the years compared with Cubase. Considering the new release will include all the plugs it's a bloody bargin.

I orignally had to move from a PC to a Mac to keep my Logic Platinum at the latest version, not a cheap thing to do. I also bought the ESX24 and the EVP88, thank goodness I didn't buy any others. :rolleyes:

There are not many high end places/people working with Cubase SX, the real pro rig is Pro-tools/Appogee hardware with Logic Platinum for writing.

sonicbaz


Originally posted by i_am_a_cow
was logic always this much money? 999 seems pretty expensive for audio software, and from the website I really don't see that many features that aren't in cubase sx or digital performer... i have cubase SL and it even does most of the things I read on the logic pro site (apple.com/logic) for only like 400 bucks. I dont understand. Someone with logic please explain.:confused:

freddiecable
Jan 17, 2004, 12:00 PM
don't you get it? if you already own logic platinum 5 or 6 - you get the whole shabang for 199 USD! that's pretty good - I think.

And - they will probably make the plug-ins buyable for Express-users...or others...

Originally posted by vixapphire
Then pray tell, how do those of us who already have Logic 6 and were considering adding Space Designer and, say ES2, now go about it? I'm not interested in paying $999 for something I primarily already have, nor do I wish to spend money on the B3 or clavinet simulators on offer.

ryaxnb
Jan 17, 2004, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by Photorun
Cripes, Apple is turning into... an audio software juggernaut! Apple Records will love that.

corey
Jan 18, 2004, 02:55 AM
Originally posted by PixelBoy
As to the new Logic scheme, I'm not sure I like it. It used to be you could buy Platinum for like $700, now you have to spend a full grand... lame.Platinum list price was $949, so at most Pro should go for about $750.

johnfitz
Jan 21, 2004, 09:12 PM
Can I use my mbox with logic express as an audio interface? Thanks!

el gringo
Jan 22, 2004, 01:25 AM
didn't mean to be rude ;) but the obvious advantages made me a bit grumpy :)

anyhow - I'd love a middle alternative:

Logic Express + Instruments for say 799 USD? Don't need Logic Pro...but I really need the instruments...

Originally posted by vixapphire
yes, thanks. asked the question as one without the time to navigate the several pages of others' comments before getting back to work. very exciting indeed.

was at namm yesterday and saw demo's of the upcoming instruments, namely the drum module (insane) - like a "machinedrum" built into logic; guitaramp sounds excellent - amplitube for free; and sculpture promises to be a very interesting instrument, especially considering the performance possibilities using the logic control's faders to control multiple parameters.

given sculpture's use of an x/y modulation "space" (like the hartmann neuron), and considering that apple's primarily a hardware company, and further considering (quite to my surprise) that there were scant logic control modules in sight at apple's booth, i wonder whether apple will be releasing its own controller for logic featuring faders, joysticks, etc. (like the digidesign controllers or steinberg's ID). hmmm...