McCain Votes Against Vets

[archesdevil]

OBAMA had over 80,000 people cheering him on.... No one protesting.

McCain can't even get 20,000 without protest.

Watching his face was hilarious.

Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQJWIBj0HB4)

[r.j.s]

Really?

DNC Protests:

Colorado Indymedia (http://colorado.indymedia.org/node/3)

Recreate 68 (http://www.electionunspun.org/issues/features/322-dnc-protest-preview)

Where'd you get the numbers for the RNC attendance?

And what does your post have to do with voting against Vets?

[archesdevil]

Really?

DNC Protests:

Colorado Indymedia (http://colorado.indymedia.org/node/3)

Recreate 68 (http://www.electionunspun.org/issues/features/322-dnc-protest-preview)
Where'd you get the numbers for the RNC attendance?

I always expect people to have a little common sense and, sensibility. I guess I was wrong here. I know that there was protesting at the DNC. There always is in political events. However, in a stadium of 80,000, there were no visible disturbances.

[r.j.s]

Did those protesters make it on worldwide t.v.? Did they make it into the stadium?

I don't know, I wasn't there. I wouldn't count on the media to give a fair account of it.

How about providing some links or checking some facts before you make claims ... you did say "No one protesting."

[r.j.s]

However, in a stadium of 80,000, there was no decent-ion.

That's easy to accomplish when they just don't let them into the stadium.

[archesdevil]

That's easy to accomplish when they just don't let them into the stadium.

You think the Republicans let him in the arena?

[archesdevil]

I don't know, I wasn't there. I wouldn't count on the media to give a fair account of it.

How about providing some links or checking some facts before you make claims ... you did say "No one protesting."

As soon as youtube has footage I will add it.

[r.j.s]

You think the Republicans let him in the arena?

I didn't even watch it, so I have no idea who you are talking about. Really, what does this have to do with voting against Vets?

[archesdevil]

I didn't even watch it, so I have no idea who you are talking about. Really, what does this have to do with voting against Vets?

I don't know why you would reply if you have no idea what I am talking about.
A protester raised a sign during the McCain speech that stated, "McCain votes against Vets." There was also at least one other protester as-well.

[Abstract]

I always expect people to have a little common sense and, sensibility. I guess I was wrong here.

I don't see the need for that comment at all. Since your statement didn't make any sense, r.j.s. asked for (necessary) clarification.

Until your post just now, I still didn't know how your original post related to vets. Either I don't have common sense either, or you didn't make sense. I'd bet on the latter.

[r.j.s]

I don't know why you would reply if you have no idea what I am talking about.
A protester raised a sign during the McCain speech that stated, "McCain votes against Vets." There was also at least one other protester as-well.

I replied because I am a Vet, and seeing the thread title made me curious. Once I read your post, which was completely unsubstantiated and partially wrong, I felt the need to correct the record.

BTW, is there any evidence to back up that protester's claim? Anyone could have written anything on a sign and held it up, doesn't mean anything unless it can be backed up.

[archesdevil]

I replied because I am a Vet, and seeing the thread title made me curious. Once I read your post, which was completely unsubstantiated and partially wrong, I felt the need to correct the record.

As I said, I will post footage as soon as it is available. Also, I am curious why you did not watch the RNC speech. You can tell by my sig that I am clearly for OBAMA but, I watched to see if McCain had any substantive ideas. I can see you are for Barr. You still could have watched.

[r.j.s]

Also, I am curious why you did not watch the RNC speech.

I had better things to do around the house, I saw maybe 3 minutes of it.

[lostfan916]

During McCain's speech there were protesters in the arena. I was watching ABC and there was a quick flash to a guy at the top with a banner saying that McCain voted against Vets. Camera went back to McCain and would eventually go back to the guy who you could tell was protesting (wasn't very apparent at first) and then he was yelling something and had the peace sign up, but the RNC people started chanting "USA" (probably to drown him out.) Then a few minutes after that there was a lady down on the floor who was also protesting, but don't really know what she was doing, just saw her moving around and stuff then she was escorted out, and more chants of "USA!" McCain once again continued and we could hear more "USA" chants interrupting his speech, which leads me to assume every time there was a USA chant someone was protesting.

Then McCain said something about ignoring the screech or something... don't remember he wasn't too memorable tonight.

[archesdevil]

I had better things to do around the house, I saw maybe 3 minutes of it.

I understand. My post was directed toward people who knew what had happened. I apologize for not being clear about that.

[Ntombi]

I replied because I am a Vet, and seeing the thread title made me curious. Once I read your post, which was completely unsubstantiated and partially wrong, I felt the need to correct the record.

BTW, is there any evidence to back up that protester's claim? Anyone could have written anything on a sign and held it up, doesn't mean anything unless it can be backed up.
Here you go (http://www.votesmart.org/issue_rating_category.php?category=66&go.x=8&go.y=15&can_id=53270&type=category)

directly from veterans groups:


Veterans Issues


2006 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Disabled American Veterans (http://www.votesmart.org/issue_rating_detail.php?r_id=3483) 20 percent in 2006.
2006 In 2006 Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America (http://www.votesmart.org/issue_rating_detail.php?r_id=3439) gave Senator McCain a grade of D.
2006 Senator McCain sponsored or co-sponsored 18 percent of the legislation favored by the The Retired Enlisted Association (http://www.votesmart.org/issue_rating_detail.php?r_id=3425) in 2006.
2005 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Disabled American Veterans (http://www.votesmart.org/issue_rating_detail.php?r_id=1898) 25 percent in 2005.
2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Disabled American Veterans (http://www.votesmart.org/issue_rating_detail.php?r_id=2992) 50 percent in 2004.
2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the The Retired Enlisted Association (http://www.votesmart.org/issue_rating_detail.php?r_id=1838) 0 percent in 2004.
2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Vietnam Veterans of America (http://www.votesmart.org/issue_rating_detail.php?r_id=2933) 100 percent in 2003-2004.
2003 Senator McCain supported the interests of the The American Legion (http://www.votesmart.org/issue_rating_detail.php?r_id=2546) 50 percent in 2003.
2001 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Vietnam Veterans of America (http://www.votesmart.org/issue_rating_detail.php?r_id=1614) 46 percent in 2001.
1999 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Disabled American Veterans (http://www.votesmart.org/issue_rating_detail.php?r_id=277) 66 percent in 1999.
1997-1998 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Vietnam Veterans of America (http://www.votesmart.org/issue_rating_detail.php?r_id=161) 0 percent in 1997-1998.
1989-1990 On the votes that the Vietnam Veterans of America (http://www.votesmart.org/issue_rating_detail.php?r_id=14) considered to be the most important in 1989-1990 , Senator McCain voted their preferred position 50 percent of the time.

How to Interpret these Evaluations (http://www.votesmart.org/issue_rating_category.php?category=66&go.x=8&go.y=15&can_id=53270&type=category#How)
Project Vote Smart collects performance evaluations from special interest groups who provide them, regardless of issue or bias. If you have any comments concerning performance evaluations or know of a group that provides ratings not included here, please contact us at ratings@vote-smart.org.


Keep in mind that ratings done by special interest groups are biased. They do not represent a non-partisan stance. In addition, some groups select votes that tend to favor members of one political party over another, rather than choosing votes based solely on issues concerns. Nevertheless, they can be invaluable in showing where an incumbent has stood on a series of votes in the past one or two years, especially when ratings by groups on all sides of an issue are compared. Website links, if available, and descriptions of the organizations offering performance evaluations are accessible by clicking on the name of the group.


Most performance evaluations are displayed in a percentage format. However, some organizations present their ratings in the form of a letter grade or endorsement based on voting records, interviews, survey results and/or sources of campaign funding. For consistency, Project Vote Smart converts all scores into a percentage when possible. Please visit the group's website or call 1-888-VOTESMART for more specific information.


And here are Obama's ratings:
2006 Senator Obama supported the interests of the Disabled American Veterans 80 percent in 2006.

2006 In 2006 Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America gave Senator Obama a grade of B+.

2006 Senator Obama sponsored or co-sponsored 12 percent of the legislation favored by the The Retired Enlisted Association in 2006.

2005 Senator Obama supported the interests of the Disabled American Veterans 92 percent in 2005.

[seenew]

Then McCain said something about ignoring the screech or something... don't remember he wasn't too memorable tonight.

He said "friends, friends, ignore the static and the ground noise. aheh heh heh."

I'm sure he'd love you to ignore them. Stupid people, protesting against issues they don't like, what do they think they're doing? :rolleyes:

I hate it when McCain tries to call me his friend.

[r.j.s]

Here you go (http://www.votesmart.org/issue_rating_category.php?category=66&go.x=8&go.y=15&can_id=53270&type=category)

directly from veterans groups:



Let me make sure I'm getting this, the more they do what the special interest group wants, the higher the rating?

[Ntombi]

Let me make sure I'm getting this, the more they do what the special interest group wants, the higher the rating?

Yes. Go to www.votesmart.org. It's completely non-partisan, and it aggragates data on every single candidate's voting record and stated policy.

McCain claims to be for veterans and veteran issues, but every single veterans group had given him consistently low marks. This is not just on the war, BTW, or recently, but on benefits, pay, rehab, mental health issues, you name it.

I know he's not your candidate, but I wanted to set the record straight on him. He loves to pay lip service to vets, but not much else. I have vets in my family, some who came back healthy, and some who didn't. This is personal to me as well.

[r.j.s]

Yes. Go to www.votesmart.org. It's completely non-partisan, and it aggragates data on every single candidate's voting record and stated policy.

McCain claims to be for veterans and veteran issues, but every single veterans group had given him consistently low marks. This is not just on the war, BTW, or recently, but on benefits, pay, rehab, mental health issues, you name it.

I know he's not your candidate, but I wanted to set the record straight on him. He loves to pay lip service to vets, but not much else. I have vets in my family, some who came back healthy, and some who didn't. This is personal to me as well.

Thanks. I just wanted to make sure I understood what the numbers mean.

[leekohler]

I don't know, I wasn't there. I wouldn't count on the media to give a fair account of it.



If course! Because the media's all "librools"! Everyone knows that! :rolleyes:

[r.j.s]

If course! Because the media's all "librools"! Everyone knows that! :rolleyes:

I never said that ... you can find media bias to both sides. Just check Media Matters (http://mediamatters.org) and Media Research Center. (http://mediaresearch.org) IMO, all the mainstream media is good for anymore is opinionated commentary and sensationalized stories that boost ratings.

[leekohler]

I never said that ... you can find media bias to both sides. Just check Media Matters (http://mediamatters.org) and Media Research Center. (http://mediaresearch.org) IMO, all the mainstream media is good for anymore is opinionated commentary and sensationalized stories that boost ratings.

I know. I was baiting you. ;) We do try to have fun once in a while in here. :)

[BoyBach]

There is also this shining example of McCain and Bush - oops, I forgot that we are not allowed to mention them in the same sentence now that Dubya has been rebranded as "Liberal Washington" by the Republican Party - supporting the troops:

The Senate version was drafted by two Vietnam veterans, Jim Webb, Democrat of Virginia, and Chuck Hagel, Republican of Nebraska. They argue that benefits paid under the existing G.I. Bill have fallen far behind the rising costs of college.

Their bill would pay full tuition and other expenses at a four-year public university for veterans who served in the military for at least three years since 9/11.

At that level, the new G.I. Bill would be as generous as the one enacted for the veterans of World War II, which soon became known as one of the most successful benefits programs — one of the soundest investments in human potential — in the nation’s history.

Mr. Bush — and, to his great discredit, Senator John McCain — have argued against a better G.I. Bill, for the worst reasons. They would prefer that college benefits for service members remain just mediocre enough that people in uniform are more likely to stay put.

They have seized on a prediction by the Congressional Budget Office that new, better benefits would decrease re-enlistments by 16 percent, which sounds ominous if you are trying — as Mr. Bush and Mr. McCain are — to defend a never-ending war at a time when extended tours of duty have sapped morale and strained recruiting to the breaking point.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/26/opinion/26mon1.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin


"We were baffled by Sen. McCain's position," said Paul Rieckhoff, executive director and founder of Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America (IAVA). "Not only because he's a veteran, but because he has a son in the Marine Corps and a son at the Naval Academy. And he's a guy who went to school on Uncle Sam's dime."

The bipartisan bill expanding education benefits for veterans was passed in the Senate in May by a vote of 75-22, despite the opposition of both McCain and President Bush.

http://www.minnpost.com/michaelmetzger/2008/09/03/3345/iraq_afghanistan_vets_criticize_mccain_over_gi_bill

[r.j.s]

I know. I was baiting you. ;) We do try to have fun once in a while in here. :)

I figured, but decided to go into it all out, instead of the last time I said the media was biased.

[Pittsax]

There is also this shining example of McCain and Bush - oops, I forgot that we are not allowed to mention them in the same sentence now that Dubya has been rebranded as "Liberal Washington" by the Republican Party - supporting the troops:



http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/26/opinion/26mon1.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
And the most disgusting part of that is that McCain has been bragging about how he was responsible for it ever since. And I haven't really heard anyone call him on it aside from Olbermann.

[Iscariot]

Those mooching animal doctors have had it too good for too long. McCain is right to stand up for the rights of pet owners everywhere.

[r.j.s]

Those mooching animal doctors have had it too good for too long. McCain is right to stand up for the rights of pet owners everywhere.

Damn it, you're right. Here I thought they meant Veterans. :D

[BoyBach]

Those mooching animal doctors have had it too good for too long. McCain is right to stand up for the rights of pet owners everywhere.


This doesn't surprise me; McCain does have 'previous' when it comes to animal welfare. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBCDq_x-HVU) :eek: :D

[r.j.s]

This doesn't surprise me; McCain does have 'previous' when it comes to animal welfare. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBCDq_x-HVU) :eek: :D

I'm going to have to call fake on that one ... :D

[bobber205]

This doesn't surprise me; McCain does have 'previous' when it comes to animal welfare. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBCDq_x-HVU) :eek: :D

I am getting "Video no longer available" :(

[r.j.s]

I am getting "Video no longer available" :(

Try this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqZAgznsYvg&feature=related) one

[solvs]

BTW, is there any evidence to back up that protester's claim? Anyone could have written anything on a sign and held it up, doesn't mean anything unless it can be backed up.
Other than the link already posted:

http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/articleid/9559
http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2008/05/mccain-on-veter.html
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/07/mccain-against-va-funding/
http://www.blog.newsweek.com/blogs/soldiershome/archive/2008/02/19/what-veterans-think-of-mccain.aspx
http://mediamatters.org/items/200806040002
http://orangejuiceblog.com/2008/09/does-senator-john-mccain-vote-against-us-veterans/
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/08/12/the-veterans-vote-is-far-from-locked-up/

Also could be why Obama is getting more money and support from troops and vets than McCain (http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/08/troops-deployed-abroad-give-61.html).

Here's an article from Time about McCain's vet problem:

http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,1808161,00.html

[solvs]

More:

How Did the RNC Insult Troops and Veterans? Let Me Count the Ways... (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jon-soltz/how-did-the-rnc-insult-tr_b_124785.html)
McCain's Voting Record - How He REALLY Supports the Troops (http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2008/2/26/132915/144)
John Sidney McCain's abysmal voting record AGAINST our troops (http://thepoliticalcarnival.blogspot.com/2008/07/john-sidney-mccains-abysmal-voting.html)
(same type of info here (http://www.barackoblogger.com/2008/08/mccain-consistently-votes-against-our.html))
McCain on FCS: Flip-flop or fib? (http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/09/defense_mccain_FCS_091208/)

But:

Inhofe says patriotism question will sink Obama (http://www.tulsaworld.com/common/printerfriendlystory.aspx?articleID=20080906_11_A1_STPAUL227187)

And that's perfectly legitimate debate? :confused: