Spore's SecuROM

[SilentCrs]

Anyone brave enough to have installed Spore seen what EA has done in terms of Securom on OS X? TUAW had a post a short while back talking about Securom on upcoming Cider games: http://www.tuaw.com/2008/08/21/transgaming-to-use-securom-for-cider-games/

I'm curious how they implemented it (if they implemented it), as the PC version (if I'm reading correctly) uses sort of a rootkit. I took a look around the Creature Creator files and a Securom folder is dropped at:

/Users/Chris/Library/Preferences/SPORE/Creature Creator/Preferences/p_drive/User/Application Data/SecuROM

However, that looks more like a remnant of what the install would look like on Windows than anything.

I don't see any obvious daemons running any Securom for the Creature Creator. I don't know enough about UNIX: can they do an invisible rootkit?

The reason I ask is that this is a relatively new machine (got the highest-end iMac maxed out on memory and hard drive space) and I've been rather happy with its performance playing simple games like World of Warcraft in OS X. I don't want a potential rootkit on my machine.

[knightlie]

The DRM is the main reason I won't be buying Spore (regardless of what the OSX version does) - that and the fact that the gameplay sounds as if it's been dumbed down to nothing. Creatures with six legs are as fast as creatures with two - so, where does this "evolution" fit in then?

DRM of this kind is unacceptable, particularly as they're charging £40 for this game.

[Infrared]

Anyone brave enough to have installed Spore seen what EA has done in terms of Securom on OS X? TUAW had a post a short while back talking about Securom on upcoming Cider games: http://www.tuaw.com/2008/08/21/transgaming-to-use-securom-for-cider-games/

I'm curious how they implemented it (if they implemented it), as the PC version (if I'm reading correctly) uses sort of a rootkit. I took a look around the Creature Creator files and a Securom folder is dropped at:

/Users/Chris/Library/Preferences/SPORE/Creature Creator/Preferences/p_drive/User/Application Data/SecuROM

However, that looks more like a remnant of what the install would look like on Windows than anything.

I don't see any obvious daemons running any Securom for the Creature Creator. I don't know enough about UNIX: can they do an invisible rootkit?

The reason I ask is that this is a relatively new machine (got the highest-end iMac maxed out on memory and hard drive space) and I've been rather happy with its performance playing simple games like World of Warcraft in OS X. I don't want a potential rootkit on my machine.

Me neither. The very idea is creepy.

Did you have to give your admin password to install?

Getting a rootkit going without that is more difficult.

[QCassidy352]

I share the same concerns. I was really looking forward to this game, but will not be buying it if it invades my file system with secret security measures. Enough is enough.

[IanC]

I've had a look round and cant see anything. Nothing running in the background when not playing Spore.

So no rootkit. Might be something running in the background when you play Spore which also quits when you quite spore? But I don't know. I don't care tbh - it hasn't installed anything sneaky which is all hat matters.

[Infrared]

I've had a look round and cant see anything. Nothing running in the background when not playing Spore.

So no rootkit.

That's the nature of a rootkit: you can't see it :)

[palebluedot]

So does this have a rootkit? I already installed it and now I'm worried :/

[SilentCrs]

If anyone's feeling equally adventurous, there is a rootkit detector for OS X. Curious to see if it finds anything: http://www.christian-hornung.de/

[kitki83]

I just found out about Digg.com and Amazon reviews on how bad the DRM is causing a lot of headaches. I am happy I saved myself some wasted money.

[kkat69]

I just found out about Digg.com and Amazon reviews on how bad the DRM is causing a lot of headaches. I am happy I saved myself some wasted money.

LOL maybe for the PC users in fact those are the only 'headache' complaints I've seen is people don't want the rootkit installed, but I haven't read much (if any) where the DRM was causing game play issues.

It runs great on my iMac, in fact, I'm on my 5th installation of the spore creature creator and it was fairly easy to get the count reset/additional installs. Just provide SN/Registration Email/Full Name and blam it was done. Pretty painless.

Certainly I understand the need for something like this but in all reality there's gotta be a better way of doing DRM.

All in all, pretty painless. I've already got it installed on 3 computers at my house since EA blatantly says that your allowed 3 installations on ANY computer in your house, and I've already gotten my actual Spore game extended in case I need it and that itself went pretty quick.

[SilentCrs]

LOL maybe for the PC users in fact those are the only 'headache' complaints I've seen is people don't want the rootkit installed, but I haven't read much (if any) where the DRM was causing game play issues.

It runs great on my iMac, in fact, I'm on my 5th installation of the spore creature creator and it was fairly easy to get the count reset/additional installs. Just provide SN/Registration Email/Full Name and blam it was done. Pretty painless.

Certainly I understand the need for something like this but in all reality there's gotta be a better way of doing DRM.

All in all, pretty painless. I've already got it installed on 3 computers at my house since EA blatantly says that your allowed 3 installations on ANY computer in your house, and I've already gotten my actual Spore game extended in case I need it and that itself went pretty quick.

I don't really have an issue with the install limitations. What I'm concerned about is that Securom does a lot of controversial stuff in Windows (e.g. hide files, registry keys, and sometimes create invisible "devices") that tends to screw up others areas of the OS. I'm not one of those people who think OS X is invulnerable to rootkits (as I've said, UNIX rootkits have been around for years). It's just a question of how far Securom goes on OS X versus Windows.

Also, I notice a couple of people keep mentioning "Spore Creature Creator" -- my understanding is that Securom works with the actual CD/DVD-ROM, so any potential issues with the Creature Creator wouldn't necessarily translate to the retail game (given that the Creator doesn't require media to install). Again, this is just a guess though. Bottom line, I don't think we can assume Spore retail will necessarily act the same as Spore Creature Creator.

[tropic10]

I'm also very curious about how SecuROM works in Cider and there seems to be very little information out there about it.

Someone on Amazon mentioned that it's all contained in the Windows install inside Cider. But I've also read comments that the Spore install prompts for an Administrator password. And that concerns me a lot.

[icarusone]

SecuROM only operates on CD installs, right? What about Digital Delivery?

I downloaded Spore from Direct2Drive.com, and I don't need a CD to play. Just entered my CD key and it was good to go.

Anyhow, the game is a blast. Obviously it's not a true evolution simulator, duh! Evolution is a natural process, Spore lets you guide your creature's development for whatever reason you choose. You can make the most gimped creatures ever in it. Evolution doesn't tend to favour things so easy to kill that they can't reproduce.

But if you take it as it is, a playground with good gameplay, it's super fun.

[nick9191]

I love Spore. Running it on a humble MacBook and it runs like a charm.

[kkat69]

I don't really have an issue with the install limitations. What I'm concerned about is that Securom does a lot of controversial stuff in Windows (e.g. hide files, registry keys, and sometimes create invisible "devices") that tends to screw up others areas of the OS. I'm not one of those people who think OS X is invulnerable to rootkits (as I've said, UNIX rootkits have been around for years). It's just a question of how far Securom goes on OS X versus Windows.

Also, I notice a couple of people keep mentioning "Spore Creature Creator" -- my understanding is that Securom works with the actual CD/DVD-ROM, so any potential issues with the Creature Creator wouldn't necessarily translate to the retail game (given that the Creator doesn't require media to install). Again, this is just a guess though. Bottom line, I don't think we can assume Spore retail will necessarily act the same as Spore Creature Creator.

Creature Creator contained SecuRom as well. Both the 10 dollar version AND the free version (although I believe the free version is dumbed down or turned off) but SCC definitely has SecuRom on it and it DOES act the same as the actual game does.

[SimonTheSoundMa]

Sorry EA, one more sale lost from me.

Why three installs maximum? Stupid! They make me out to be a crook for buying it.

[QCassidy352]

Creature Creator contained SecuRom as well. Both the 10 dollar version AND the free version (although I believe the free version is dumbed down or turned off) but SCC definitely has SecuRom on it and it DOES act the same as the actual game does.

they have DRM on a free trial download? :confused:

[Mattjeff]

they have DRM on a free trial download? :confused:

It creature creator costs $9.99, the trial version is a limited version of Creature Creator.

[Mattjeff]

What exactly is this SecuROM and stuff? :confused:

[tropic10]

icarusone: SecuROM is also installed if you purchase via digital delivery.

QCassidy352: In the old days, a lot of full retail games were cracked by using the unprotected demo/trial executables. So most publishers today also put DRM on their demos.

Mattjeff: SecuROM is DRM software.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SecuROM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spore_(game)#Digital_rights_management

[QCassidy352]

It creature creator costs $9.99, the trial version is a limited version of Creature Creator.

I know that, but the post I quoted suggested the DRM on the trial as well.

QCassidy352: In the old days, a lot of full retail games were cracked by using the unprotected demo/trial executables. So most publishers today also put DRM on their demos.

Well, I'm pretty annoyed that fact wasn't made very obvious on the free download. If they're installing crap on our computers they need to make that clear.

[capoeirista]

It's a lost sale here too. I do NOT agree with 'renting' something you paid for. Will the authentication servers still be active in 10 years? Doubt it.

No thanks EA.

[Sdashiki]

It's a lost sale here too. I do NOT agree with 'renting' something you paid for. Will the authentication servers still be active in 10 years? Doubt it.

No thanks EA.

Most likely they will patch it before shutting down... :rolleyes:

[knightlie]

I know that, but the post I quoted suggested the DRM on the trial as well.



Well, I'm pretty annoyed that fact wasn't made very obvious on the free download. If they're installing crap on our computers they need to make that clear.

I agree, it wasn't mentioned at all on the free download. I later found all the SecuROM junk in there and had no idea what it was. It's a pretty insidious way of doing it, they should make it clear up front that a rootkit is used and give the choice not to purchase. After the Sony fiasco who is going to trust a rootkit on their machine?

[Lofarabia]

I hear a lot of indignation from people saying that the software should be more than a rental or should be ready for installation on more than three computers, but these aren't issues that bother me. Similarly, the issue of continuing authentication didn't frustrate me too much, so EA mending that didn't inspire any confidence, really.

I'm most concerned about rootkits, and from what I can tell that requires the administration password. Am I correct in that assumption? And are people being asked for theirs? Or is there some more definitive way of telling whether or not the game runs a rootkit? And either way, does the DRM mess the mac up in any other way?

If I did install it and there was a rootkit, I know I'd need to reinstall the OS, but would I lose all my data, or could I just back it all up?

Lastly, I hear about people turning to piracy to circumvent the DRM, but does that make any sense? The online shared content is a major drawing point and it doesn't seem like you could access that from a pirated copy. I'm not going to pirate it anyway though, so I'm praying this DRM stuff gets resolved.

[palebluedot]

I wont lie, I dont want a rootkit on my machine BUT I'd take this over Aspyr and other game makers BS "insert cd to play" nonsense. This is a godsend to be able to click a game whenever I want and not have to put in a disc.


COUNT YOUR BLESSINGS PEOPLE! :P

BTW, Why is no one confirming or denying if there is a root kit? I am assuming NO ONE has a clue. It's doubtful they would have a Root Kit since the game runs in CIDER technology and isn't really OS X native.

[SilentCrs]

BTW, Why is no one confirming or denying if there is a root kit?

Because it's hard to tell if you have one. :P So far I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe it has one on Mac.

[Sdashiki]

I wont lie, I dont want a rootkit on my machine BUT I'd take this over Aspyr and other game makers BS "insert cd to play" nonsense. This is a godsend to be able to click a game whenever I want and not have to put in a disc.

But there is a delay as it contacts the server.

[Mattjeff]

what is root kit then? lol I don't understand what everyone is so angry about here.

[palebluedot]

But there is a delay as it contacts the server.

That doesn't prove there is a rootkit.

[Nermal]

That doesn't prove their is a rootkit.

He never said it did.

[mntbikejack]

Anyone try to play spore without an admin privileges account? It will not work for my kids unless I give then admin privileges. I don't like that.

[Mackilroy]

Anyone try to play spore without an admin privileges account? It will not work for my kids unless I give then admin privileges. I don't like that.

I'm playing Spore under a managed account. It's my computer, but I set up a separate admin account a long time ago and my primary is a managed account. Spore installed and plays with no issues for me.

[Darkspork]

I installed Spore (legally) on my macbook as well. I have noticed nothing screwy so far, except that the DVD drive seems slower than usual, and also the computer is unusable for about 3 minutes after Spore exits.

Does anyone know a crack for the Mac version that will allow me to activate as many times as necessary but still access online content? EA's customer support people are... well... idiots, "No Men" if you will, and I want something that I can pick up in 10 years and still be able to play. Sim City 2000 and Sim Copter are games I still play, and I would rather not be left with a beautiful $50 coaster to remind me of how much of an idiot I am.

[ZiggyPastorius]

I bought it the day it came out and haven't really noticed anything different or weird. I was never really worried about it that much, anyways, even though a lot of people are refusing to buy it because of it. One thing that does bother me is the fact that it's being marketed as DRM, which though it may be, it's pretty inefficient. Hell, the game was being pirated a week before it came out and that's good DRM? **** me. So, what we're left with, as usual, is the people who actually pay for the game being screwed, and the pirates get to prance around, tralalala, with their SecuROM and rootkit-less copies of Spore. All of my friends pirates the game, and I was the only one who actually paid for it. It really sucks that I'm the one who's being punished out of all of us.

One of them said they were going to send a package with $40 in it to EA, with no return address or name or anything, or any reason for sending it. He said it was to pay for the game, and the last $10 is what he judged the SecurROM and online play to be worth. Of course, I know he's not going to do that. Anyways, while the idea seems enticing and almost legitimate, I'm not that naive. Part of being able to play their game is agreeing to their terms, which includes buying a legit copy of the game for $50, and not tampering with their installer.

The whole idea is stupid, either way.

[Dagless]

If the game was fun I still wouldn't go near this because of the DRM. What a travesty of gaming is and if it's a sign of more to come then I guess I'll be playing console only games.
Either way it's just another reason for me not to buy another EA game. Who's to say they won't add this to other upcoming games?

[IscariotJ]

If the game was fun I still wouldn't go near this because of the DRM. What a travesty of gaming is and if it's a sign of more to come then I guess I'll be playing console only games.
Either way it's just another reason for me not to buy another EA game. Who's to say they won't add this to other upcoming games?

You mean like EA's next big release, RA3? Although EA's current spin, is that it's more lenient; it allows 5 installs. The rest of the DRM is the same, though. Another game I'll pass on.

I was really looking forward to Spore, but have held off because of these issues. The only downside, is that EA will probably attribute any drop in sales to piracy, not protest. I find this quite laughable seeing as they are making such a big deal over the DRM preventing copy, yet Spore is currently one of the most torrented games. Ho ho. They ought to take a look at StarDock's DRM-less releases.

I'm hoping that BioWare convince them to leave Dragon Age alone, but I think that's a diminishing hope. It looks like I'll be sticking to playing older PC games, and console only titles.

[Brien]

Well the way EA is headed they'll DRM the console releases too.

EA sucks.

[Badfrog88]

New Mac user here. My wife installed Creature Creator (CC) on her MacBook Pro for our daughter to use before I heard about the "issues".

...I took a look around the Creature Creator files and a Securom folder is dropped at:

/Users/Chris/Library/Preferences/SPORE/Creature Creator/Preferences/p_drive/User/Application Data/SecuROM

However, that looks more like a remnant of what the install would look like on Windows than anything.
... I don't want a potential rootkit on my machine.

Just out of curiosity, I moved the SecuROM folder to the desktop and started CC. At first, I thought it hung at the EA splash screen, but it finally loaded. After exiting, I found it had rewritten the folder.

If anyone's feeling equally adventurous, there is a rootkit detector for OS X. Curious to see if it finds anything: http://www.christian-hornung.de/

Tried it. Everything seems OK with the exception of the following warnings:

-e [15:33:19] Warning: Syslog configuration file allows remote logging: install.* @127.0.0.1:32376

-e [15:33:25] Warning: Hidden file found: /usr/share/man/man5/.rhosts.5.gz: gzip compressed data, was ".rhosts.5", from Unix, last modified: Sat Nov 24 16:15:22 2007

And here is the summary:

e [15:33:27] System checks summary
-e [15:33:27] =====================
[15:33:27]
-e [15:33:27] File properties checks...
-e [15:33:27] Required commands check failed
-e [15:33:27] Files checked: 80
-e [15:33:27] Suspect files: 0
[15:33:27]
-e [15:33:27] Rootkit checks...
-e [15:33:27] Rootkits checked : 77
-e [15:33:27] Possible rootkits: 0
[15:33:27]
-e [15:33:27] Applications checks...
-e [15:33:27] Applications checked: 6
-e [15:33:27] Suspect applications: 0
[15:33:27]
-e [15:33:27] The system checks took: 53 seconds
[15:33:27]
-e [15:33:27] Info: End date is Tue Sep 16 15:33:27 CDT 2008

Any thoughts from the more experienced users?

[Darkspork]

The Securom software IS IN FACT rootkitted to your computer. However, it's not what you'd expect. When you run the Spore app, it's actually a heavily modified version of WINE. Running the Spore app boots up a Windows XP virtual machine within the app. THAT VIRTUAL MACHINE HAS A ROOTKIT. I also found a readme file for SecuROM written by someone with poor spelling.

"PLEASE DO NOT DELETE THE FILES IN THIS FOLDER BECAUSE YOU MIGHT LOOSE ESSENTIAL DIGITAL RIGHTS.
READ BELOW"

Loose = not tight.
Lose = not win.
Rights = not what this software does. It does restrictions.
...and yet somehow Sony still sells this.

Anyway, I figured this out when Spore crashed in an odd way, revealing a Windows XP desktop. Therefore, the developers didn't ACTUALLY make Spore run on a mac natively. They just WINEd it. That's low, my friends. That's low.

[synth3tik]

The Securom software IS IN FACT rootkitted to your computer. However, it's not what you'd expect. When you run the Spore app, it's actually a heavily modified version of WINE. Running the Spore app boots up a Windows XP virtual machine within the app. THAT VIRTUAL MACHINE HAS A ROOTKIT. I also found a readme file for SecuROM written by someone with poor spelling.

"PLEASE DO NOT DELETE THE FILES IN THIS FOLDER BECAUSE YOU MIGHT LOOSE ESSENTIAL DIGITAL RIGHTS.
READ BELOW"

Loose = not tight.
Lose = not win.
Rights = not what this software does. It does restrictions.
...and yet somehow Sony still sells this.

Anyway, I figured this out when Spore crashed in an odd way, revealing a Windows XP desktop. Therefore, the developers didn't ACTUALLY make Spore run on a mac natively. They just WINEd it. That's low, my friends. That's low.

WOW! That is just pathetic. I guess from the security stand point though it is good.

Last week I bought Spore. I left it in the bag and spent a couple days checking out posts and reviews online. Finally after seeing that the reviews were very mediocre. I decided all the rootkit stuff was not with it if the game reviews were so bad and returned the game.

[Lord Zedd]

http://www.amazon.com/review/product/B000FKBCX4

2,500 1 star reviews.

[Dagless]

http://www.amazon.com/review/product/B000FKBCX4

2,500 1 star reviews.

That is old news.

[Lord Zedd]

And it took a useless post for you to point that out?

Look through the thread again and you will see no mention of Amazons ratings or a link to it other than mine.

[capoeirista]

And it took a useless post for you to point that out?

Look through the thread again and you will see no mention of Amazons ratings or a link to it other than mine.

In fairness that really is old news.

[Huntn]

I realize the issue is "us" versus "them", the freedom to control a product you own, versus the game creator's fear of piracy. There is a fundamental problem when you penalize honest users to protect yourself. If you own it, you should be able to sell it. If they want us to rent it, then they should say so up front. Refusing to buy such a game, may have an impact if enough people pass on purchase. And I resent Steam, another onerous authentication system.

However, I don't know the answer. Possibly being more flexible when it comes to shifting a game to a new account? I like the ability to sell a used game when I've finished it. I suspect as time goes by this ability will disappear for honest users and it makes me view console games (which are resellable) and cracks for PC/Mac games in a more favorable light. My intent is not to become a bootlegger and illegally distribute the game but to simply recover some of my investment as I do with many resale-able items I own.

Is there an answer that is good for both the distributer and the end user?

[nubee]

Last week I bought Spore. I left it in the bag and spent a couple days checking out posts and reviews online. Finally after seeing that the reviews were very mediocre. I decided all the rootkit stuff was not with it if the game reviews were so bad and returned the game.

That's exactly what I'm doing right now. LOL I just bought the game tonight, but I'm thinking I may return it.

Does anyone have any news on the lawsuit against EA?

[MowingDevil]

I almost bought this game the other day and am glad I didn't. I'll have to hear something really positive abo this to get me to pony up. Here's my problem from what I've read:

A) DRM is B.S.! I have never minded having to insert the CD while playing a game (all Blizzard titles etc) but don't think there should be any limit as to how many people in your household play it. Hell, if I want to lend it to a friend I should be allowed to as well as long as they get the disc. I have paid for it afterall. I'm all for these companies protecting their investments but there's a better way w/o punishing the honest people who buy their products.

B) Dumbed down? Seriously? Wow thats lame. So if I have read correctly they've taken all the 'evolution' element away so that it doesn't affect your character, only stats do. Evolving your creature is just cosmedic? lame.

C) Rootkit. wtf?!? Stay OUT of our computers EA!!!

If all this is true they can piss off. I'll spend my money elsewhere thank you very much. Love to hear more abo this lawsuit.